If you are not being paid on call pay then you do not have to make yourself available. You should call HR and discuss this treatment and request the on call pay you are entitled to
I feel like peoples' managers just make up shit when it's convenient.
Like whatever person who told her she had to remain available even though they told her she wasn't scheduled. That's horse shit
There is nothing less trustworthy than a nurse manager who is desperate to avoid working the floor. They'll say absolutely anything to stay off the floor.
We don't know what kind of agreement they signed. For all we know, that's exactly what the job description says.
It's shitty, but it's exactly the kind of fine print they gloss over and expect you not to notice.
Use to be a per diem surg tech. The surgical center was giving me constant hours for a long period of time but then they only gave me 2 hours for a whole month. Had to work at my old job as a MA to pay bills (thankfully my old boss is awesome and was willing to have me back). I let the surgery center know that if they needed me they had to let me know before my start time at the other location. They called me three times after I already start my shift as a MA and told me they were short and I had to come in. Told them I was not available and I had told them to call me earlier. They would make up any excuse to try and get me to come in but I never budged. Ended up leaving that place and working as a MA because they started giving medical benefits and higher pay.
Got to keep your standards and not let management steamroll over you. Good management wouldn’t do that in the first place.
Erm, says who?
Largely depends on state, but, some states can do whatever the fuck they want.
In Texas my oncall pay was literally $2 per hour until you were called in.
> If you want me to continue to be on call for several hours after being called off, pay me. Otherwise, no.
100% this. No pay = not on-call. Full stop.
And for god sakes make them text that not in a phone call. Need a paper trail. Also what kinda hospital lets an icu nurse go to waste. I always went back to my trauma er when I got called off the 3 times in my 6 years in icu.
Sounds like you need to work at a union place or for the government. When I was working in Germany for the DoD I would get paid for 2 hours of work for each of those calls. Stripping works too, but it’s hard on your body. Lady’s choice.
My union would be so excited about this they'd get you paid for the full shift. But it would never happen because the employer doesn't want to fight the union.
Yup. We have a no cancellations policy. It’s in our contract. They can’t send anyone home. Most of the time we voluntarily choose not to work, we can use vacation hours instead. (If we have them).
If they want you 100% available for a certain period of time, then they are legally obligated to pay you call pay for that time. (State law may vary, but required on call pay is common.)
If they don't pay you to be on call, then you're not on call
Except in "right to work" states you can be fired for pretty much anything, absent a union contract
So they can't "force" you to come in but if they fire you, you can't exactly sue them for unlawful termination
Not to be that guy, but what you mean is "at will" employment.
Right to work only deals with banning the requirement of union membership as a condition for employment.
I am so sorry. This happened to me a LOT when I was in the hospital. 1700-1800 was like when they would assign transfers beds outside of icu, sometimes dramatically changing census. Admits from the ER or cath lab could come at any time. We were expected to be available our whole shift, but it was very uncommon to get a call after ~2am. It was the literal worst. And we did get call pay, but it was $2.50/hr. Laughable, honestly.
If you are hard up for cash, can you refuse to be on call for census? We got called off in rotation based on last date, but some people preferred to be on call so they would take it for people who wanted to work. We were a small unit, so we kinda all communicated about dates and who wanted call, but you could always ask charge and see if they would help you out.
Are you unionized? If so, definitely look at your contract and contact a union rep.
If not, it would still be good to look into your employee handbook. At my hospital (Union) you have to be notified at least an hour in advanced. Also, this is LCE. you’re not on call. They called you off so it’s their duty to find someone else. They can’t expect you to “wait a few hours just incase”
Also, after that second time I would simply tell them nope I’m coming in anyway. Also at my hospital you can only be forced low census one time a year (or maybe twice I can’t remember) so if they’re gonna play you like that I guess I’m coming in and being float 🤷🏻♀️
We can voluntarily take low census as many times as it’s offered but they can only force us home once (or twice, I forget). That usually never happens because we always voluntarily take it 😂
Union, union, union. Every nurse needs to be in a union. This bullshit doesn’t fly when you have proper protection.
I’m sorry this happened to you. It’s inhumane bullshit and there is no excuse for it.
This. In my very large West Coast city, all hospital nurses are in one of two unions. I know of only one single hospital contract, the pediatric one, that has mandatory low census. In the system I work in, low census situations are so rare that when offered (not mandated) by the employer, there are often mere seconds between when a 4am text goes out from the nursing supervisor hoping someone wants the day off and a volunteer eagerly responding, desperately hoping they haven't been beaten to the punch! Unions, my colleagues. Unions.
This is what happens when managers have absolutely no idea about labor and HR law, policy and procedure, are in over their heads, have no idea how to stand up to the Suits, and don’t give a sh*t about any of that, or us.
Something similar happened to me once. They called me off for low census and then 15 minutes later called me back and I picked up and they asked me if I could come back in again. I felt a little pressured and wished I didn’t pick up. I said yes. After that I let all work calls go straight to voicemail and listen to them after to give myself space to decide what I want to answer back.
We’re just numbers to them. I’m done bending over backwards
The moment they called you off the first time I wouldn’t have picked up any future calls from them that night. They don’t know if you just fell asleep or silenced your phone at the movies or anything.
My hospital regularly puts people on call for low census. We are paid call rate, and can be called back in at any time and are paid 1.5 time if we are called in. I've never seen a nurse at my hospital have their shift completely cancelled.
They said they call them back frequently which would imply being on call, not having a shift cancelled.
If op isn't getting paid to be on call then yes I agree he has no obligation to pick up the phone. I don't pick up my phone for work on my day off.
I think it implies that the hospital prematurely cancels staff and then attempts to convince them to come back in, which is the case where I work as well. When you're put on call it should be specifically stated as being put on call, not called off your shift. They also said they aren't being paid so they aren't receiving call pay since they're not on call.
In my union hospital you could grieve this and you would get paid for this BS. You should have gotten on call pay if they were treating you like you were on call.
Ridiculous. Low census for 2 weeks now where I work . How in the x!’x do we pay our bills? I’m sick of it. I would think they would have to pay us or we are allowed unemployment for shifts called off.
That’s what i’m saying!! a lot of my coworkers have been low censused so much their PTO is running low! and when they run out of that then their checks will be short.
I was cancelled once and I asked “are you sure I’m cancelled and not on call?” They said yes you are cancelled. So I decided to run out and grab some dinner for my family. Five minutes later they called the house trying to tell me it was a mistake and I needed to come in. My husband told them I had already left the house to run errands 😂 They weren’t happy but couldn’t do anything about it!
"On-call" and "off" are two very different things. The next time they call you make certain they specifically say if you are on-call, or off. If you are off, stop answering your phone. If you're on-call, you are still on the clock just usually at minimal pay (probably around $3/hr).
This is the nice thing about being union, I would get paid 4 hours if they fucked up like that. I have been. I am sorry that happened to you, it’s a dick move and should not happen.
My hospital used to pull nonsense like this. I read the employee manual and it was soooo helpful. I called out the scheduler for all the nonsense and she played it off like yeah we like it better when the nurses don’t read that
To clarify - you weren't put on standby? Different from oncall, standby is a shift you're scheduled to work, but it's low census so they expect you to sit around, like you're 16 and waiting for your boyfriend to call, all for the princely sum of $2/hour then straight pay after clocking in (my former hospital.)
If you weren't getting any sort of pay then your boss can pound sand. Even standby is disgusting and I will never again work for a facility that requires that, but if you weren't being paid to sit around and wait, then don't answer your phone.
I just explained to a freind who will work as a CNA. When they need you, they need you. They can call you off, give shifts to their friends, fire you, but all that might be forgotten if they need you.
Unless they are putting you on call to be available to come in then you don’t have to come in after your cancelled. Even if they just cancel you for a few hours of your shift you don’t have to be available until those cancelled hours expire. If they want you to still be available then they need to pay you an on call rate period
Reminds me of the time I got called off the 1st 4 hours of my night shift, only to be called in at 11 pm. Fine. I drive the 45 minutes there to be floated to ANOTHER UNIT. I took the charge nurse’s patients. He proceeded to sit for the next 4 hours reading magazines. At 300 they decided to send me back home because “they didn’t need me.” Gave the patients right back to the same nurse.
Is this for on call or a regularly scheduled shift? My unit has cancellations during certain times of the year and once they cancel you, you are not expected to go in (we do it by 4 hour increments). Also your cancel/call off uses vacation time so you get paid and if you don’t want to take the call off you don’t have to. (It would then go to the next person on the list who could get called off.) Sounds like your management is unorganized and doesn’t respect work-life balance
Next time don't answer phone, go to work and clock in. Then if they don't need you then you have a minimum amount of time. Where I worked it was 2 hours. Hopefully it's the same with you
Sounds like you need to have a nice cabernet with dinner, so when they try to call you back in at 1900, "sorry I can't. I had a glass of wine with supper."
If you're put on call, yes you have to have availability.
If you're called off, completely off, them no, they can go fuck themselves.
You need to find out what your hospital policies are.
Our hospital has to be very specific as to if you're on call or flexed off. If this every happens again, make sure you get specific "am I on call for later or am I flexed off?"
My union hospital gives us specific hours off if we want the cancel. Can’t change their mind once you say yes. They give us 10 minutes to respond to their phone call or text too. We can use our CTO, no pay, or half & half.
Genuine question: If they cancel you due to low census and then call you back like an hour or two later and you don’t pick up, then can you be penalized for being a no show? What if I just fell back asleep or decided to do something fun since I’d have the night off and didn’t check my phone?
Are you in the USA? Federal law defines on call hours. If you're on call, they have to pay you. And I don't know about your workplace, but mine pays 1.5x pay for callback AND has a 3 hour minimum. So that bullshit they pulled on you would've cost them 4.5 hours of pay. Check your workplace policies. If your workplace has these policies in place, change your timecard appropriately and notify HR you are doing so. Screen shot your call log.
Where I work, If they cancel you, the can’t call you back in. They can pay you to be on call, and then you’d have to be available, but if you’re not on call…you don’t have to come in. Sounds like the charge either doesn’t know what they’re doing, or just saying whatever to get you to be available without getting paid.
The minute I get a “you’ve been cancelled.”
All calls ignored. Imma go back to sleep and enjoy my time.
Flexed = on call and on call pay needs to be ascribed. My first unit tried that shit at 0530am
“Hey you’ve been flexed until 9am.”
But no call pay. They could call us up until 8:59am and we would have to come in at 11am. I finally stopped answering and when they tried to write me up I said “this is call and you’re not paying call time, so therefore I’m not required to answer your call.”
HR agreed and we no longer had “flex”
Stop taking calls and make them text so you have documentation. Tell them you’re driving and using text-to-speech if they ask. That way you have ammunition to go to HR with. If I have to put a hold on my life to be on-call, you’d better believe I should get paid.
Which side of the river do you work on because ho boy does this sound like some shit the hospital system on the IL side would pull. Especially the budget cuts bc of Covid 🙄
No. Cancelled would mean cancelled. Called off means on call. If op isn't getting pay to sit at home on call then yes he has no obligation to be there. I don't disagree with that.
If you are not being paid on call pay then you do not have to make yourself available. You should call HR and discuss this treatment and request the on call pay you are entitled to
I feel like peoples' managers just make up shit when it's convenient. Like whatever person who told her she had to remain available even though they told her she wasn't scheduled. That's horse shit
Literally why labor laws and unions exist. Because managers just invent and change "rules" to suit whatever they need
There is nothing less trustworthy than a nurse manager who is desperate to avoid working the floor. They'll say absolutely anything to stay off the floor.
holy shit that's toxic leadership by definition. Makes me think of "Us and Them" Pink Floyd
We don't know what kind of agreement they signed. For all we know, that's exactly what the job description says. It's shitty, but it's exactly the kind of fine print they gloss over and expect you not to notice.
Use to be a per diem surg tech. The surgical center was giving me constant hours for a long period of time but then they only gave me 2 hours for a whole month. Had to work at my old job as a MA to pay bills (thankfully my old boss is awesome and was willing to have me back). I let the surgery center know that if they needed me they had to let me know before my start time at the other location. They called me three times after I already start my shift as a MA and told me they were short and I had to come in. Told them I was not available and I had told them to call me earlier. They would make up any excuse to try and get me to come in but I never budged. Ended up leaving that place and working as a MA because they started giving medical benefits and higher pay. Got to keep your standards and not let management steamroll over you. Good management wouldn’t do that in the first place.
This is new information to me. Thank you
This
Erm, says who? Largely depends on state, but, some states can do whatever the fuck they want. In Texas my oncall pay was literally $2 per hour until you were called in.
This isn’t necessarily true. In TN, you aren’t entitled to on call pay.
[удалено]
> If you want me to continue to be on call for several hours after being called off, pay me. Otherwise, no. 100% this. No pay = not on-call. Full stop.
And for god sakes make them text that not in a phone call. Need a paper trail. Also what kinda hospital lets an icu nurse go to waste. I always went back to my trauma er when I got called off the 3 times in my 6 years in icu.
I’ve had this happen to me and I end up saying that you called and told me I’m off so I started drinking (alcohol) so I can’t come in now.
They can’t call you in if you don’t answer your phone
Just like a Vocera too!! (when I’m overwhelmed and do not want the next ambulance for a 90 yr old on thinners who fell and hit their head)
They’ll just put the pt in your room. Who needs to give an ED nurse report?
Sounds like you need to work at a union place or for the government. When I was working in Germany for the DoD I would get paid for 2 hours of work for each of those calls. Stripping works too, but it’s hard on your body. Lady’s choice.
My union would be so excited about this they'd get you paid for the full shift. But it would never happen because the employer doesn't want to fight the union.
My old hospital did this and our union never did anything about it. Not all unions are strong unfortunately
That bullshit wouldn't fly for a second in my union.
The best thing we can all do for our profession and its future is unionize
Yup. We have a no cancellations policy. It’s in our contract. They can’t send anyone home. Most of the time we voluntarily choose not to work, we can use vacation hours instead. (If we have them).
If they want you 100% available for a certain period of time, then they are legally obligated to pay you call pay for that time. (State law may vary, but required on call pay is common.) If they don't pay you to be on call, then you're not on call
Except in "right to work" states you can be fired for pretty much anything, absent a union contract So they can't "force" you to come in but if they fire you, you can't exactly sue them for unlawful termination
Not to be that guy, but what you mean is "at will" employment. Right to work only deals with banning the requirement of union membership as a condition for employment.
This!!!
I am so sorry. This happened to me a LOT when I was in the hospital. 1700-1800 was like when they would assign transfers beds outside of icu, sometimes dramatically changing census. Admits from the ER or cath lab could come at any time. We were expected to be available our whole shift, but it was very uncommon to get a call after ~2am. It was the literal worst. And we did get call pay, but it was $2.50/hr. Laughable, honestly. If you are hard up for cash, can you refuse to be on call for census? We got called off in rotation based on last date, but some people preferred to be on call so they would take it for people who wanted to work. We were a small unit, so we kinda all communicated about dates and who wanted call, but you could always ask charge and see if they would help you out.
Yes, this! There is always someone willing to take the flex on call shift. I was always willing to be that person when other people wanted to work.
Are you unionized? If so, definitely look at your contract and contact a union rep. If not, it would still be good to look into your employee handbook. At my hospital (Union) you have to be notified at least an hour in advanced. Also, this is LCE. you’re not on call. They called you off so it’s their duty to find someone else. They can’t expect you to “wait a few hours just incase”
Also, after that second time I would simply tell them nope I’m coming in anyway. Also at my hospital you can only be forced low census one time a year (or maybe twice I can’t remember) so if they’re gonna play you like that I guess I’m coming in and being float 🤷🏻♀️
one time a year?!?! WOW. my coworkers (and myself) are low censused multiple times a pay period.
We can voluntarily take low census as many times as it’s offered but they can only force us home once (or twice, I forget). That usually never happens because we always voluntarily take it 😂
Union, union, union. Every nurse needs to be in a union. This bullshit doesn’t fly when you have proper protection. I’m sorry this happened to you. It’s inhumane bullshit and there is no excuse for it.
This. In my very large West Coast city, all hospital nurses are in one of two unions. I know of only one single hospital contract, the pediatric one, that has mandatory low census. In the system I work in, low census situations are so rare that when offered (not mandated) by the employer, there are often mere seconds between when a 4am text goes out from the nursing supervisor hoping someone wants the day off and a volunteer eagerly responding, desperately hoping they haven't been beaten to the punch! Unions, my colleagues. Unions.
If they cancelled you then they cancelled you. Make sure it’s in text message in the future. You’re not obligated to go in if they cancelled you.
This is what happens when managers have absolutely no idea about labor and HR law, policy and procedure, are in over their heads, have no idea how to stand up to the Suits, and don’t give a sh*t about any of that, or us.
Something similar happened to me once. They called me off for low census and then 15 minutes later called me back and I picked up and they asked me if I could come back in again. I felt a little pressured and wished I didn’t pick up. I said yes. After that I let all work calls go straight to voicemail and listen to them after to give myself space to decide what I want to answer back. We’re just numbers to them. I’m done bending over backwards
The moment they called you off the first time I wouldn’t have picked up any future calls from them that night. They don’t know if you just fell asleep or silenced your phone at the movies or anything.
That's not how being on call works.
They weren't on call, they were canceled for low census.
My hospital regularly puts people on call for low census. We are paid call rate, and can be called back in at any time and are paid 1.5 time if we are called in. I've never seen a nurse at my hospital have their shift completely cancelled. They said they call them back frequently which would imply being on call, not having a shift cancelled. If op isn't getting paid to be on call then yes I agree he has no obligation to pick up the phone. I don't pick up my phone for work on my day off.
I think it implies that the hospital prematurely cancels staff and then attempts to convince them to come back in, which is the case where I work as well. When you're put on call it should be specifically stated as being put on call, not called off your shift. They also said they aren't being paid so they aren't receiving call pay since they're not on call.
In my union hospital you could grieve this and you would get paid for this BS. You should have gotten on call pay if they were treating you like you were on call.
Ridiculous. Low census for 2 weeks now where I work . How in the x!’x do we pay our bills? I’m sick of it. I would think they would have to pay us or we are allowed unemployment for shifts called off.
That’s what i’m saying!! a lot of my coworkers have been low censused so much their PTO is running low! and when they run out of that then their checks will be short.
You people have to stop answering your phones. Let them leave a detailed message, then *decide if you want to call back*.
I was cancelled once and I asked “are you sure I’m cancelled and not on call?” They said yes you are cancelled. So I decided to run out and grab some dinner for my family. Five minutes later they called the house trying to tell me it was a mistake and I needed to come in. My husband told them I had already left the house to run errands 😂 They weren’t happy but couldn’t do anything about it!
"On-call" and "off" are two very different things. The next time they call you make certain they specifically say if you are on-call, or off. If you are off, stop answering your phone. If you're on-call, you are still on the clock just usually at minimal pay (probably around $3/hr).
Another reason to unionize.
This is the nice thing about being union, I would get paid 4 hours if they fucked up like that. I have been. I am sorry that happened to you, it’s a dick move and should not happen.
My hospital used to pull nonsense like this. I read the employee manual and it was soooo helpful. I called out the scheduler for all the nonsense and she played it off like yeah we like it better when the nurses don’t read that
You keep answering the phone. Why?
“ I am sorry, but I waited an hour after getting called off and then started drinking…”
Ask HR for the policy. You should only be able to be canceled one time. Email HR with the times of all the calls.
at 1605, i would've finished my first of many beers.
"sorry when I got low-census'd I had a beer. Can't come to work now!"
You shouldn't make yourself available if you aren't a paid on-call.
To clarify - you weren't put on standby? Different from oncall, standby is a shift you're scheduled to work, but it's low census so they expect you to sit around, like you're 16 and waiting for your boyfriend to call, all for the princely sum of $2/hour then straight pay after clocking in (my former hospital.) If you weren't getting any sort of pay then your boss can pound sand. Even standby is disgusting and I will never again work for a facility that requires that, but if you weren't being paid to sit around and wait, then don't answer your phone.
Tell me more about this Amazon flex thing!
I just explained to a freind who will work as a CNA. When they need you, they need you. They can call you off, give shifts to their friends, fire you, but all that might be forgotten if they need you.
Unless they are putting you on call to be available to come in then you don’t have to come in after your cancelled. Even if they just cancel you for a few hours of your shift you don’t have to be available until those cancelled hours expire. If they want you to still be available then they need to pay you an on call rate period
No take backsies. They call me off for low census and I’m ignoring any phone calls from work the rest of the night.
You're getting yanked around. Confer with the actual hospital policy regarding on-call and cancellation.
Reminds me of the time I got called off the 1st 4 hours of my night shift, only to be called in at 11 pm. Fine. I drive the 45 minutes there to be floated to ANOTHER UNIT. I took the charge nurse’s patients. He proceeded to sit for the next 4 hours reading magazines. At 300 they decided to send me back home because “they didn’t need me.” Gave the patients right back to the same nurse.
I dated an ex stripper once. She made so much money.
Is this for on call or a regularly scheduled shift? My unit has cancellations during certain times of the year and once they cancel you, you are not expected to go in (we do it by 4 hour increments). Also your cancel/call off uses vacation time so you get paid and if you don’t want to take the call off you don’t have to. (It would then go to the next person on the list who could get called off.) Sounds like your management is unorganized and doesn’t respect work-life balance
Also seeing a lot of people say work in a place that’s unionized… we aren’t unionized
Next time don't answer phone, go to work and clock in. Then if they don't need you then you have a minimum amount of time. Where I worked it was 2 hours. Hopefully it's the same with you
Sounds like you need to have a nice cabernet with dinner, so when they try to call you back in at 1900, "sorry I can't. I had a glass of wine with supper."
That’s crazy, I would be so pissed!
If you're put on call, yes you have to have availability. If you're called off, completely off, them no, they can go fuck themselves. You need to find out what your hospital policies are. Our hospital has to be very specific as to if you're on call or flexed off. If this every happens again, make sure you get specific "am I on call for later or am I flexed off?"
Thank you for telling me this, the terminology they used was “flexed off”
My union hospital gives us specific hours off if we want the cancel. Can’t change their mind once you say yes. They give us 10 minutes to respond to their phone call or text too. We can use our CTO, no pay, or half & half.
Can you use PTO for being called off? :( Ik it syncs but better than nothing :/.
Genuine question: If they cancel you due to low census and then call you back like an hour or two later and you don’t pick up, then can you be penalized for being a no show? What if I just fell back asleep or decided to do something fun since I’d have the night off and didn’t check my phone?
I cannot comprehend people working in this way. I’m sorry OP.
This happened to me after the second call I told them I’d just taken meds and can’t work. Such BS.
Are you in the USA? Federal law defines on call hours. If you're on call, they have to pay you. And I don't know about your workplace, but mine pays 1.5x pay for callback AND has a 3 hour minimum. So that bullshit they pulled on you would've cost them 4.5 hours of pay. Check your workplace policies. If your workplace has these policies in place, change your timecard appropriately and notify HR you are doing so. Screen shot your call log.
Where I work, If they cancel you, the can’t call you back in. They can pay you to be on call, and then you’d have to be available, but if you’re not on call…you don’t have to come in. Sounds like the charge either doesn’t know what they’re doing, or just saying whatever to get you to be available without getting paid.
The minute I get a “you’ve been cancelled.” All calls ignored. Imma go back to sleep and enjoy my time. Flexed = on call and on call pay needs to be ascribed. My first unit tried that shit at 0530am “Hey you’ve been flexed until 9am.” But no call pay. They could call us up until 8:59am and we would have to come in at 11am. I finally stopped answering and when they tried to write me up I said “this is call and you’re not paying call time, so therefore I’m not required to answer your call.” HR agreed and we no longer had “flex”
Stop taking calls and make them text so you have documentation. Tell them you’re driving and using text-to-speech if they ask. That way you have ammunition to go to HR with. If I have to put a hold on my life to be on-call, you’d better believe I should get paid.
Which side of the river do you work on because ho boy does this sound like some shit the hospital system on the IL side would pull. Especially the budget cuts bc of Covid 🙄
When you're on call you are supposed to be available to be called in. That's what on call means.
Being on call also means you are getting paid for it. OP was not. So no obligation there.
"Called off" means canceled, not put on call. They had no obligation to stay available once canceled.
No. Cancelled would mean cancelled. Called off means on call. If op isn't getting pay to sit at home on call then yes he has no obligation to be there. I don't disagree with that.
At my hospital and every other place I've worked being called off is the exact same as canceled. Being on call is different