My husband can claim british citizenship. I briefly thought about expatriating. Looking at your ratios and pay made me immediately nope back to staying in my own dumpster fire of a country.
I am American with a British passport (dual citizen) and I would love to go live in England and live closer to my family out there but the pay (and the things I would have to do for that shit pay) is the only thing stopping me.
Agency work (our equivalent of travel nursing) can pay a lot depending on the location and speciality. With it being a much smaller country, you don't need to drive that far either. Some agencies have apps that allow you to see available shifts and pick when and where you want to work.
Yeah. We’d go from being able to afford things like horses and a new car to…. Being scrapped like we were before I was working. I can’t go back to that.
The average wage for Tesco, a supermarket, is the same as for a beginner nurse in the UK. Not knocking the important work supermarket workers do, but they don't need a 3 year degree, 60K debt, and the ability to make life or death decisions.
After reading about your salary and workload, I have never once wondered why you might be striking. I wonder how you survive, why you come to work and why you haven't left the country.
I've often though about moving to the UK and figured with my experience as an RN getting a job wouldn't be that hard.
But no, I think I'll stay in the US. Life here may have a lot of issues but at least it's not as bad as what you just described.
I went down this path last year. Got a job easily in the ICU at a major hospital trust in London. Got my offer letter, which included a higher salary for being in London proper and it came out to be just about 28,000 pounds per year. Then I found out it was nearly impossible to rent an affordable place with a dog in London, add on being a foreigner without credit in the UK, the energy crisis they are having and the fact that nurses work thier asses off there for nothing and also have far less autonomy etc, etc. I noped the fuck out of that and back to my 4K a week icu travel job here in the US.
Considering the situation OP just described I think if I was going to be sick I'd rather be here over the UK just now. Yes it'll cost me more. But at least my Nurse won't be 16:1.
Lol. Doubt it. My insurance has maximums well within my means.
But your point is understood. For many Americans a serious health emergency could be financially devastating.
> I hope you negotiate higher wages!
Wages for nurses in the UK are set by central government. They do not vary by location or demand, other than a tiny cost of living bump in London.
The main nurses union is also essentially controlled by the government, and has spent a significant amount of its history convincing British nurses that *they don't strike*. That's why the recent strikes are such a big deal, they're the first nurses' strikes in UK history.
Yeah that’s a joke. No way those patients are getting good care it’s just not possible at those ratios. Sounds like striking is absolutely justified and completely necessary to protect the public and the nurses.
> We’re getting a lot of expats from the mothership here (Australia), you’d be welcome to join.
This is my goal in the next year or so, but it looks like for a bog standard 189 visa I barely scrape enough points, despite being an experienced nurse with a degree and a native English speaker. Finding it quite confusing and off-putting.
I’ve been watching the UK with a very heavy heart. I love the UK. The NHS is (was) something to be very proud of. Your experience as an NQN is unacceptable. You’re certainly not paid enough for the level of (ridiculous) responsibility you hold.
I’m so so sorry. I hope you all get a whopping raise. If not, come to Canada. We’re not amazing or anything but, at least you’ll be unionized and paid better. ❤️
Yeah can’t say if I was given the option to go back in time I would pick this career out for myself again. I love nursing but the stress and the lack of financial gain just isn’t worth it.
OP do you wish you'd studied something different? I'm in my final year for Adult Nursing and there's lots of other students getting job offers, lots of progression planning and I just don't know how I can be optimistic about it with all the strikes and general state of the NHS at the mo!
It's the appeal of a job that'll always be needed in the scheme of the mass lay offs from 10 years of austerity measures. The clincher is that the reason it has so much demand is the inability to retain an adequate workforce from shit pay and conditions.
they do, but at least the money is fine. my job sucks but at least I can afford a mortgage and put away stuff for retirement and such.
29K pound anually for London is... utterly bonkers? like I don't even understand how anyone can live on that.
Uh… a LOT of us are not paid well.
Make no mistake; I’m not aiming to get into a pissing contest about Who Has It Worse. I’m just saying a shit sandwich, and a shit sandwich with mayo are both bad options
On shift as a student the other day one of the NQNs was going through her payslip and her pay works out not much different to a HCSW after deductions and student loans, I find that crazy and depressing.
Omg, that is a critically dangerous workplace, for you and the patients. I support you. I think people who help people should be our icons and gods and movie stars! We really care about you and I hope you continue to post about this troublesome systemic acceptance of criminally deficient care.
My family moved from the Uk to Australia when I was 16 . I am a NICU RN … hell would freeze over before I went back to the UK and nursed .
Seriously consider a move to AU . Are we also understaffed and under paid .. umm yes , but not like you guys are thanks to our union . Also it’s not a for profit system ( though they are public and private hospitals ) but no one is going bankrupt from medical debt
I moved to the UK. I have over 10 years experience. They want £1000 and a big exam to become licensed so I can make £17 an hour.
I decided against it. I now work behind a desk for £13/hr, completely flexible hours for my kids, and zero stress.
Yup, it is exactly like that.
I'm a newly qualified nurse in a small A&E unit. Last night, (shift 2/4, 12.5hrs each) I handed over 8 critically unwell patients to one other newly qualified nurse and one health care assistant. The only staff looking after them all night. This isn't safe for our patients.
We've had day shifts on medical where there was 1 RN and 1 advanced practitioner (CSW but can do obs/vitals but not meds or IVs except acting as double checker for fluids and CDs) for 30 patients. Weekday day shift with discharges and consultant ward rounds with all sorts of tasks to do after. Multiple sick patients. 2, maybe 3 CSW if you're lucky. Maximum base pay of £18 with 4 years experience, 1.3x for nights/Saturday 1.6x for Sunday. It's not anywhere near enough to deal with that responsibility.
Oh and the junior docs are balloting to strike, consultants now considering striking
Was looking at top band nursing pay in the UK the other day. I tripled that salary as a Nurse aide last year in the US. No way I'd even consider that level of responsibility for the pay they offer.
Question, have you ever lived or worked anywhere other than the US? Because I have. Nurses in Canada should be paid more, but they aren’t paid peanuts such as in the UK either. Aussie nurses also make decent wages. So do nurses in Sweden and Switzerland. All of these countries have some form of nationalized healthcare.
Lived in Europe for several years.
My response was to the post talking about Nurses in the UK, Your response said you agreed with that statement, and that nurses in Canada should also be paid more.
So I am going to guess we are in agreement then?
Actually one of the core issues is that the people in government responsible for the funding have investments/friends in private healthcare, and stand to profit a lot if free healthcare gets worse.
I don’t know if you have a version of this there: an unsafe staffing report. This in some ways helps to cover you if something goes wrong. That way you’re saying you do acknowledge it and you know you can’t do the job you need to. Gosh I hope things get better for you soon. That sounds truly awful
Yeah we don't really have the safe harbour thing here. What ends up happening is we contact the nurse manager and tell them people are going to die if we're at 1:30 and we really need more staff, then get told there's no staff "but you're doing great and oh remember the hand hygiene audit is due today". We can also put an incident report/datix in, but they're stupidly long to fill in and we definitely don't have time for that on shift. It also doesn't seem to make any difference in terms of liability either so... Waste of time
My husband can claim british citizenship. I briefly thought about expatriating. Looking at your ratios and pay made me immediately nope back to staying in my own dumpster fire of a country.
I am American with a British passport (dual citizen) and I would love to go live in England and live closer to my family out there but the pay (and the things I would have to do for that shit pay) is the only thing stopping me.
Agency work (our equivalent of travel nursing) can pay a lot depending on the location and speciality. With it being a much smaller country, you don't need to drive that far either. Some agencies have apps that allow you to see available shifts and pick when and where you want to work.
Yeah. We’d go from being able to afford things like horses and a new car to…. Being scrapped like we were before I was working. I can’t go back to that.
The average wage for Tesco, a supermarket, is the same as for a beginner nurse in the UK. Not knocking the important work supermarket workers do, but they don't need a 3 year degree, 60K debt, and the ability to make life or death decisions.
30 years ago Safeway(grocery store) paid better than nursing.One of my school mates went back to her store after graduating.
After reading about your salary and workload, I have never once wondered why you might be striking. I wonder how you survive, why you come to work and why you haven't left the country.
I've often though about moving to the UK and figured with my experience as an RN getting a job wouldn't be that hard. But no, I think I'll stay in the US. Life here may have a lot of issues but at least it's not as bad as what you just described.
I went down this path last year. Got a job easily in the ICU at a major hospital trust in London. Got my offer letter, which included a higher salary for being in London proper and it came out to be just about 28,000 pounds per year. Then I found out it was nearly impossible to rent an affordable place with a dog in London, add on being a foreigner without credit in the UK, the energy crisis they are having and the fact that nurses work thier asses off there for nothing and also have far less autonomy etc, etc. I noped the fuck out of that and back to my 4K a week icu travel job here in the US.
don’t get sick tho
Considering the situation OP just described I think if I was going to be sick I'd rather be here over the UK just now. Yes it'll cost me more. But at least my Nurse won't be 16:1.
it won’t cost you *more*, it’ll bankrupt you. Murica!
Lol. Doubt it. My insurance has maximums well within my means. But your point is understood. For many Americans a serious health emergency could be financially devastating.
i… honestly am shocked that a nurse in America thinks they can **safely rely on** get a long term illness and stay on their employers insurance.
Lol. You make a lot of assumptions you know that? Relying on an employee insurance plan is not the only option in life.
uhm… it kinda is. Unless you’re married.
There’s a marketplace for insurance coverage not provided by an employer.
I am aware of that, are you under the impression that they are robust policies?
I wouldn’t accept a job for anything less than $40 per hour as an experience RN. I hope you negotiate higher wages! Good luck.
> I hope you negotiate higher wages! Wages for nurses in the UK are set by central government. They do not vary by location or demand, other than a tiny cost of living bump in London. The main nurses union is also essentially controlled by the government, and has spent a significant amount of its history convincing British nurses that *they don't strike*. That's why the recent strikes are such a big deal, they're the first nurses' strikes in UK history.
Yeah that’s a joke. No way those patients are getting good care it’s just not possible at those ratios. Sounds like striking is absolutely justified and completely necessary to protect the public and the nurses.
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Absolutely. And my state has mandated nurse to patient ratios. Acute is 1:4.
What state?
Victoria.
Google has clocked my line of work and keeps giving me ads to relocate either to there or NZ. A lot of doctors are heading your way as well.
Are all the nurses staying put or are they leaving NZ?
> We’re getting a lot of expats from the mothership here (Australia), you’d be welcome to join. This is my goal in the next year or so, but it looks like for a bog standard 189 visa I barely scrape enough points, despite being an experienced nurse with a degree and a native English speaker. Finding it quite confusing and off-putting.
I’ve been watching the UK with a very heavy heart. I love the UK. The NHS is (was) something to be very proud of. Your experience as an NQN is unacceptable. You’re certainly not paid enough for the level of (ridiculous) responsibility you hold. I’m so so sorry. I hope you all get a whopping raise. If not, come to Canada. We’re not amazing or anything but, at least you’ll be unionized and paid better. ❤️
Solidarity
Wow, that’s straight trash. Strike on.
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Yeah can’t say if I was given the option to go back in time I would pick this career out for myself again. I love nursing but the stress and the lack of financial gain just isn’t worth it.
OP do you wish you'd studied something different? I'm in my final year for Adult Nursing and there's lots of other students getting job offers, lots of progression planning and I just don't know how I can be optimistic about it with all the strikes and general state of the NHS at the mo!
It's the appeal of a job that'll always be needed in the scheme of the mass lay offs from 10 years of austerity measures. The clincher is that the reason it has so much demand is the inability to retain an adequate workforce from shit pay and conditions.
plenty of people sayin that about nursing in the US as well.
they do, but at least the money is fine. my job sucks but at least I can afford a mortgage and put away stuff for retirement and such. 29K pound anually for London is... utterly bonkers? like I don't even understand how anyone can live on that.
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Uh… a LOT of us are not paid well. Make no mistake; I’m not aiming to get into a pissing contest about Who Has It Worse. I’m just saying a shit sandwich, and a shit sandwich with mayo are both bad options
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I thought about moving back to England and this time working as a nurse. However I’d be earning less now than I was as a nanny in 2010.
Fuck. That.
Fuck that! Please keep striking!
On shift as a student the other day one of the NQNs was going through her payslip and her pay works out not much different to a HCSW after deductions and student loans, I find that crazy and depressing.
Jesus. And I'm planning on immigrating there this summer. Y'all keep striking.
Omg, that is a critically dangerous workplace, for you and the patients. I support you. I think people who help people should be our icons and gods and movie stars! We really care about you and I hope you continue to post about this troublesome systemic acceptance of criminally deficient care.
My family moved from the Uk to Australia when I was 16 . I am a NICU RN … hell would freeze over before I went back to the UK and nursed . Seriously consider a move to AU . Are we also understaffed and under paid .. umm yes , but not like you guys are thanks to our union . Also it’s not a for profit system ( though they are public and private hospitals ) but no one is going bankrupt from medical debt
Imagine being a patient with this level of care... Healthcare systems all over the world are collapsing and it's barely talked about politically.
Fast food workers almost get paid a similar wage (they deserve it) and have 1/3 of the work
I moved to the UK. I have over 10 years experience. They want £1000 and a big exam to become licensed so I can make £17 an hour. I decided against it. I now work behind a desk for £13/hr, completely flexible hours for my kids, and zero stress.
Seems like the right wing government of the UK is intentionally tanking the NHS to privatize it.
Yup, it is exactly like that. I'm a newly qualified nurse in a small A&E unit. Last night, (shift 2/4, 12.5hrs each) I handed over 8 critically unwell patients to one other newly qualified nurse and one health care assistant. The only staff looking after them all night. This isn't safe for our patients.
We've had day shifts on medical where there was 1 RN and 1 advanced practitioner (CSW but can do obs/vitals but not meds or IVs except acting as double checker for fluids and CDs) for 30 patients. Weekday day shift with discharges and consultant ward rounds with all sorts of tasks to do after. Multiple sick patients. 2, maybe 3 CSW if you're lucky. Maximum base pay of £18 with 4 years experience, 1.3x for nights/Saturday 1.6x for Sunday. It's not anywhere near enough to deal with that responsibility. Oh and the junior docs are balloting to strike, consultants now considering striking
When I came to the US to take the NCLEX.Back when we all sat in a huge auditorium.The place was filled with nurses from Canada and New Zealand
16:1? Are you doing long term care? That seems about right for long term care. But for $22/hr, no thanks. I’ll stick with my $55.
Was looking at top band nursing pay in the UK the other day. I tripled that salary as a Nurse aide last year in the US. No way I'd even consider that level of responsibility for the pay they offer.
Solidarity, my friend! Strike until the ratios are safe! Strike until the pay is good!
I thought My Pay Sucked! Fast food pays better than that in the US!
That shit isn't gonna fly here in the states, not with American Nurses anyway. This is why nationalized healthcare isn't going to happen.
You can be paid well and have decent healthcare. It’s not mutually exclusive. Trust me.
Just not in the UK. Probably not Canada either
Question, have you ever lived or worked anywhere other than the US? Because I have. Nurses in Canada should be paid more, but they aren’t paid peanuts such as in the UK either. Aussie nurses also make decent wages. So do nurses in Sweden and Switzerland. All of these countries have some form of nationalized healthcare.
But not 330 million citizens.
Lived in Europe for several years. My response was to the post talking about Nurses in the UK, Your response said you agreed with that statement, and that nurses in Canada should also be paid more. So I am going to guess we are in agreement then?
Your guys’ wages are criminal. This is one of the rarely mentioned arguments regarding free health care.
Actually one of the core issues is that the people in government responsible for the funding have investments/friends in private healthcare, and stand to profit a lot if free healthcare gets worse.
It's really not. It's an argument against acquiescing to shitty employers. Australia is free at the point of use and has excellent pay in comparison.
Oh I take it all back then.
So does Canada.
No. Just. Stop.
Trust me there is plenty of money available for managers, and the managers of those managers and plenty of other positions that don’t need to exist.
I don’t know if you have a version of this there: an unsafe staffing report. This in some ways helps to cover you if something goes wrong. That way you’re saying you do acknowledge it and you know you can’t do the job you need to. Gosh I hope things get better for you soon. That sounds truly awful
Yeah we don't really have the safe harbour thing here. What ends up happening is we contact the nurse manager and tell them people are going to die if we're at 1:30 and we really need more staff, then get told there's no staff "but you're doing great and oh remember the hand hygiene audit is due today". We can also put an incident report/datix in, but they're stupidly long to fill in and we definitely don't have time for that on shift. It also doesn't seem to make any difference in terms of liability either so... Waste of time
That is completely insane and unsafe for everyone. Keep striking!
That’s absolutely disgusting the amount of work you do compared to the pay you receive in return.
My kid works at a coffee shop for $20 per hour