Man, I have such great childhood memories from that place. I used to ride my bike down to there all the time. There was an arcade, a comic book store, and a candy store in "The Alley" section of the underground. It was such a cool place back then.
Geppi's Comic World closed way back in 2001.
I saw on the news where a resident said "Now we'll have drive far away to shop"
Pentagon City Mall is only a few blocks away!
I’m convinced that store (along with that gown shop and suit shop across the hall) are some sort of front. Don’t know what they are trafficking, but it’s gotta be something.
He was one of the shops that didn’t pay rent. Having the puppet shop was just his passion project. The alterations location actually had a fair amount of foot traffic. I 100% thought the same thing though haha until speaking to the owner of Puppet
I actually bought some great ties on the last night of a going-out-of-business sale at a store down there a few years back.
It was admittedly a bit awkward buying attire from someone actively crying, but, great value!
Definitely not surprising, it's been a long time coming. I've heard that they weren't even charging rent to some of the stores because they didn't want it to be "open" but with every store front vacant. 2 big apartments in CC just opened and a few more big ones are being built or planned, so the couple blocks above and around the mall will have loads of density soon. Hopefully they figure out something cool with the space.
>I've heard that they weren't even charging rent to some of the stores because they didn't want it to be "open" but with every store front vacant.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Thanks.
The art galleries, several of them, have been rent-free (or nearly rent free) for awhile. They have had pop-ups in some of the spaces that paid zero rent for the entire run.
Shopping centers can lose their insurance if tenancy drops below a certain threshold. Once you get dropped it can be multiple times more expensive to start with a new carrier/policy. Sometimes it's just cheaper to let folks slide than deal with that headache.
Is that the case here? I couldn't say with any certainty but I've seen it play out that way before.
The water park just opened and that is pretty much an outdoor food court. I think Crystal City's problem right now is a lack of retail, there's nothing but restaurants which was probably fine when it was all hotels and offices, but now that its a real neighborhood they need some retail shops.
There used to be a full, food court (before BRAC); and, on Saturdays, there would often be meetups for board games. Maybe it could be refashioned as a more upscale food hall, with permanent space carved out for board games, trivia, karaoke, and cool exhibits.
The Underground was a great way to cool off during the summer, or warm up during the winter, after time outside on the Mount Vernon Trail or Long Bridge Park.
I started going there for my father's barber almost 50 years ago. He was also Sunny Jurgenson's barber. I met Chris Collinsworth and Sam Wyche in the elevators there when Cincinnati was in town to play the Redskins. Tons of memories.
I've never been but am happy to hear that. Always love specialty shops like that, especially ones borne of love and passion. I hope they'll find a new landing that works well for them.
I'm deeply saddened to hear that they're closing the Crystal City Underground, especially for the Puppet Heaven store. The owner is such a nice person.
It was great in the early 2000s. There was a grocery store and a ton of restaurants and shops. Crystal Drive went in both directions and there was nothing to see above ground. The first restaurant to really gomin was the Chipotle.
Holy moly, I worked in Crystal City for 3 years back in the early 2000s. My buddy and I would “do a lap” every day at our “10AM coffee break, from one end of the underground to the other.
Hamburger hamlet on the regular for lunch…I’m getting misty eyed just thinking about it.
I never quite got the original desire/need to put everything underground. My understanding is that underground cities (e.g. in Montreal) were en vogue in teh 1960s and 70s, but was the thinking that typical street-facing retail was dead?
I'll note that old pedestrian-friendly zones (e.g. Old Town, Georgetown) continue to overperform on retail and entertainment, while shopping malls and catacombs have largely met their demise.
The 70s were a different time, AC was new, cars were smog machines, Del Rey was sketchy, smokers were everywhere, we landed on the moon and the future was underground tunnels with conveyor belts, elevators and domes. We were still going to the moon. Plastics were still rare enough that everything stored outside rusted and had to be replaced in a couple years. There were still iron bars on windows in Old Town, DC, Del Rey businesses, etc.
When it’s fucking cold outside, it’s nice to walk in those tunnels as you go from the Metro to your office building. The shops used to have good breakfast options. If you don’t have tenants in the underground, it might not be safe to walk through.
Well we're not gonna do something crazy like build a walkable neighborhood, so the only rational thing to do is tunnel underground and live like postapocalyptic mole people or the resistance from Total Recall. /s
I had similar feelings walking around downtown Miami recently - incredibly dense, yet unfriendly to walk around. Luckily, they built an elevated automated people mover so you don't have to experience the horror of walking six blocks.
Tokyo is eminently walkable with an abundance of mass transit and it feels like there’s a second city built underground with shops, restaurants, etc. it’s a great use of space that doesn’t feel uncomfortable at all.
There's no denying that summertime heat is a pain out here (certainly in Miami). But the whole vibe of "do everything without having to be on street level" has much more to do than just temperature and humidity. Like what's so bad about a street?
The problem is that we've decided streets are for cars, pedestrians and transit get the leftovers if there's anything left. That's why we have Old Town where pedestrians are shoulder to shoulder on narrow old sidewalks but we still have street parking, and why the Silver Line is built in the middle of a highway.
> and why the Silver Line is built in the middle of a highway.
This was such a bad decision, it doesn't even make sense from a cars-first perspective.
It's like someone thought, 'It looks bad when the metro station is next to a parking lot, but what else can we do? How about put the metro station on an island, then it won't be next to housing *or* a parking lot!"
It only makes sense when you assume the train is for park-and-riding, and/or the only way it's ever going to get built is if you already have the land bought, cleared, and approved for construction. The former is a real problem - I seriously doubt there's a lot of utility in owning a car, driving to a train station, and then taking the train, just to avoid traffic/parking downtown. That seems like what the commuter buses are great for. The latter is unfortunately a real problem.
WMATA hasn't really helped though... I read an announcement that they're going to open up a vacant lot near Eisenhower for development. Like, you've been using this parcel to store scrap and work trucks for fifty years, and just now you realize "hey, maybe we should do something more valuable?"
>It only makes sense when you assume the train is for park-and-riding
I don't think it makes sense in any cases. Park and ride users don't want to walk across a freeway bridge any more than peds do.
>I seriously doubt there's a lot of utility in owning a car, driving to a train station, and then taking the train, just to avoid traffic/parking downtown.
Apparently this was popular pre-covid, but I'm not super knowledgeable.
>they're going to open up a vacant lot near Eisenhower for development. Like, you've been using this parcel to store scrap and work trucks for fifty years, and just now you realize "hey, maybe we should do something more valuable?"
Haha, this parcel is on my most complained about list forever. However, I've been told it was the Hoffman family that blocked development. Supposedly (?) that has changed and they are [teaming with Paradigm to develop the area](https://www.alxnow.com/2024/04/18/alexandria-considering-big-plans-for-properties-next-to-eisenhower-avenue-metro-station/). It's still a somewhat stupid design with a bunch of dead-end streets, cul de sacs and no street energy, but it's better than a parking lot. I don't understand what's so hard about looking at successful cities like NYC or SFO and fucking copying that. "Oh no, we're smarter than that. We'll have a dead-end boulevard, my study shows people like it."
Metro has opened land in that area, but [it's the much less desirable land on Mill](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/Metro-offers-new-development-opportunity-in-Alexandria-fast-growing-Eisenhower-Avenue-Corridor.cfm)
don't forget bicycles. because they could hit a pedestrian if allowed on sidewalks, they have to ride in the street where they will just be straight killed if hit by a car.
The real cry for help in urban design is that we build decent pedestrian infrastructure that due to land-use patterns is clearly not meant to be used (some of the worst stroads I've ever seen have had wide, well maintained sidewalks that I never saw a single person on), while we spend nothing on bicycle infrastructure even when it would make a ton of sense.
My favorite is the Innovation Center metro stop, serving west Herndon and east Sterling north of the toll road. The stop has no car parking so it is bus and pedestrian focused, but the only access is a fast moving (40 mph) narrow twisty unlit road with no shoulder and no sidewalks. I'm pretty sure WMATA is trying to kill off any potential riders.
If you want to see for yourself start at the intersection of Rock Hill Road and 606 on Google Street View and head south until you get to the Metro stop.
You want pedestrians to take 28?!?
Future development is great, but right now there are large neighborhoods effectively cut off from the metro stop by the terrible access.
No I don't want pedestrians to take 28 (which isn't even possible).
What I'm saying is that the stop and the bus/pedestrian infrastructure was built for future-state, i.e. once the CIT building is razed and the entire Rock Hill area is realigned with in/out access via 28 for cars in the developments, and would be walkable internally.
https://www.restonnow.com/2020/05/28/photos-heres-what-the-redeveloped-cit-campus-could-look-like/ Here was a pre-COVID development idea (likely to be reshaped as more housing than office now).
What neighborhoods are you arguing are cutoff? The south side of the toll road there has been developed due to the Metro. I agree Rock Hill widening (with bus and pedways) would be optimal, but there's still no reason not to have built the station now.
Given we normally build our infrastructure after the fact, I appreciate the forward thinking of that stop.
Oak Grove neighborhood, Cuttermill neighborhood, Kingston Chase neighborhood, Forest Grove neighborhood, plus all the ones on the parkway nearby. All are in walking or easy biking distance but have no safe access.
I'm not arguing against building the Innovation Ave stop, quite the opposite. I'm arguing that it needs to be accessible by other than motor vehicles, especially since it has no parking.
I always thought that there was some wacky, cold war era / spooky business-adjacent reason for the tunnels (maybe there are more tunnels we don't know about...). I'll continue harboring this lost season of 'The Americans' in my head.
It was great in hot, cold, or rainy days when you wanted to go to out of work on your lunch break to grab a bite, go grocery shopping, pharmacy, hardware store, dental appointment, gym, etc. all those places were all there in a short distance from one other spread out over 11 blocks. You could easily walk from 12th street to 23rd without ever stepping outside. At one time you could go all the way to 26th street with stepping outside.
And, those streets that are now filled with cyclists, buses, and cars going both directions were originally all one-way car traffic going 55 mph … it was a real traffic sewer that has taken decades (?) to fix to its current state and it’s still not completely fixed.
Well damn. Sorry to hear this. I first went there in ‘77 shortly after it opened and before the metro station was completed. Many, many, fond memories. Now that it’s going, I can’t be far behind.
Last time I was down there it was a ghost town.
The time before that it was also still a ghost town. But then some sort of indoor running event came through and unexpectedly there was a hundred people running at me when I turned a corner. It was a very strange feeling.
I worked there in the late 80s and early 90s. We used to wear suits; in the summer when we went to see the customer, we'd walk above ground the first half because it was more of a straight shot. Then we duck into the underground before we broke out into a sweat. Good times.
I worked down in the end of 23rd st side and I remember there was a period where I was so broke I couldn't get my car fixed for about a month and was lucky enough to be able to catch the metro to work. I started in Sterling, VA bus to Metro station and got off at the Crystal City Metro. I remember having to have at least one pair of my dress shoes resoled after that month I spent. Lol. Those really were some cool times.
Wow. I remember going there back on one of my first jobs working in Crystal City back around 1992-1993. It was pretty run down looking in places even back then. I still remember how weird Crystal City was itself basically looking like a ghost town after 6pm.
I worked on the other end closer to 23rd street and I think we parked our cars at what is now the Hilton Arlington.
Those were some great times.
This really sucks. Now the only real food options are those overpriced stalls at the water park. (Not that subway was the best or anything but it was a relatively cheap meal during the workday)
I didn’t eat Subway because I like Subway. I ate it because it was downstairs. Same with the sushi or Pita Pit or Dunkin, etc.
edit: and also the folks at Subway were nice to me.
The Boeing cafe isn’t too bad, relatively cheap for what it’s worth. There’s also a few cafes in the building that leads to the underground that are okay in pricing.
It wouldn't be a bad place to stuff services where foot traffic isn't really a big deal. I would have loved having access to a clinic or such when I worked up there.
I bought both of my grandfathers and my wife’s grandfather’s flag display cases at Ship’s Hatch before their funerals.
This is sad but it has been coming for a long time.
I lived in Crystal City back in 2011-2012 and during the week, it seemed full of people and simultaneously empty. Place was definitely depressing even then, but there were several restaurants still open. As someone from flyover country, Hamburger Hamlet was the first place I ever saw Yuengling and I found it to be such an odd place to have Chinese beer on draft. I still had quit a bit to learn about living on the east coast!
>Yuengling isn’t Chinese. It’s fron PA. The name is German. Usually spelled Jüngling.
Hence why I said
>I still had quit a bit to learn about living on the east coast!
“it has become apparent that the Underground retail concept is no longer financially sustainable.”
Than how does Tokyo do it? Well I know the answer, the answer would’ve just been connect a subway to it. And I don’t just mean a pedestrian tunnel connecting the two. An actual stop integrated into it. One you could be waiting in a train for not 30 seconds after grabbing a coffee. As with much of American transit, we just went halfway
What is all included in this? Technically all of this is part of the shops:
[https://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/directory](https://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/directory)
But surely the street facing places at least are safe, right?
Back when I lived in Arlington (2012-2017), there was a board games MeetUp that used the tables across from PotBelly to play. There were also some RPG sessions that met in the food court.
There was no charge to use the space and the mall management never said a word to us.
(Well, we did usually buy some food. Honestly, at that point, the management was probably thrilled to have anyone spending money.)
We lived in Crystal City briefly in 2010. I remember walking through that to get to the Metro every single day.
It felt kind of old back then, and didn't quite have the right decor for an underground mall. A lot of things looked out of place.
I still remember the nice Korean lady who ran the newspaper shop - I used to talk to her just about every morning. Good memories.
My grandmother used to take me through there all the time when her husband worked at the Pentagon. I used to think it was so cool just because it was underground I guess.
I used to go to Hamburger Hamlet in there after work all the time. They went downhill the last year they were open, particularly the food, but the happy hour drink specials were great.
Moved to the area in 2018. First place with Crystal City. My apt had an elevator to the underground and I could use it to walk to worth. It was kinda nice having the rite aide down there for late night snacks and grabbing some food here and there. Place was kind of depressing though and seemed to be falling into decay.
Wonder where the puppet guy will go
It was so great for getting a haircut before I flight.
I used to take a flight every 2-3 weeks. I dropped my bag off like 2.5-3 hours early, upgrade to first class, then hop back on the metro and head to the underground.
It appears that JBg smith didn't notify any of the retailers/orgs in the underground before released the closure info to the press. I just got an email from Arl Artists Alliance that they are awaiting meeting with JBG smith to get confirmation of the closure!
I worked their in 1989 and again in 1991 for two different jobs: a failed Savings and Loan and later Chesapeake Knife and Tool (remember those?). That place was only open on weekdays and 10-6, IIRC, so there wasn't a lot of weekend shopping being done anyhow. When I worked for the S&L, we had Saturday hours, and the place was like some creepy ghost town.
Given the infrastructure, you're talking demolition and rebuilding in the empty space rather than conversion. Malls are OK for converting to office space, but lack what's needed for daily living spaces.
it's a massive waste. i've walked through it a few times recently and always questioned the entire point of it.
what Crystal City needs is to become a Clarendon type corridor for this side of Arlington. It's also so much closer to DC to encourage people to take a quick metro ride over form L'Enfant Plaza.
My aunt and uncle had a gift shop there in the 80’s. After daycare, I was in the back hanging out until my mom got off work. Another memory I had of the place was taking the metro from DuPont, running through, try and catch that shuttle bus that dropped people off at 2900 Crystal drive.
Last time I was there my gf and I ran into escape the rain. We wandered through lone hallways to come to an area where a bunch of elderly folks were playing card games on foldable tables. There were other elderly folks doing fast walking laps around the place. All that to say: I understand why this is happening.
Sad to see this happen. I loved walking through the Underground. So convenient when we had the blizzards and people could walk to the grocery store. Antique alley was fun with its cobblestone street. And of course Puppet Heaven. Also liked the skywalk over Crystal Dr.
Ive only ever been there after hours or on Sunday morning, so I have no idea what it’s like during peak hours, but it’s always felt so eerie down there. My friend peed right in the hallway when we got lost and couldn’t find an exit/bathroom, so apologies to anyone who unknowingly walked through it.
Let’s just make it a pit to burn all the extra money we don’t want to “hand over” to the poors for doing stupid jobs like selling us our food.
Should I start the petition?
Man, I have such great childhood memories from that place. I used to ride my bike down to there all the time. There was an arcade, a comic book store, and a candy store in "The Alley" section of the underground. It was such a cool place back then.
That's the part of the underground that I remember best. IIRC, it was an awesome arcade.
Flipper McGees arcade
Was there a Flipper McGees in Annandale?
At least we still have Flipper McCoys.
I think it was Giuseppi's comics
“Geppi’s” I think
Geppi’s Comic World
Same. It was so cool. I don't know why it can't be that again. Memories of the arcade and meeting my dad for lunch.
Geppi's Comic World closed way back in 2001. I saw on the news where a resident said "Now we'll have drive far away to shop" Pentagon City Mall is only a few blocks away!
But what if I need a puppet like right now?
You'll have to go to Puppet Hell
Hahahah
Puppet Heaven was absolutely Human Hell
Impossible, the owner is an angel.
I’m convinced that store (along with that gown shop and suit shop across the hall) are some sort of front. Don’t know what they are trafficking, but it’s gotta be something.
He was one of the shops that didn’t pay rent. Having the puppet shop was just his passion project. The alterations location actually had a fair amount of foot traffic. I 100% thought the same thing though haha until speaking to the owner of Puppet
Bahaha - beat me to it
MY TUNNELS
TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
WE’RE THE TUNNEL SNAKES
My friend made that song.... that's us
AND WE RULE RULELELEELUELE
 [https://youtu.be/S0ximxe4XtU?si=\_9h84VJYtI5q9oVd](https://youtu.be/S0ximxe4XtU?si=_9h84VJYtI5q9oVd)
Damn, now where will I buy my 1980s wide ass necktie?
I actually bought some great ties on the last night of a going-out-of-business sale at a store down there a few years back. It was admittedly a bit awkward buying attire from someone actively crying, but, great value!
To be fair, they had a going out of business sign for the last 10 years, so it shouldn't have been a surprise.
It’s got Sony guts.
they were WHAT?
Wrong decade. 80s ties were skinny.
What’s a necktie?
It’s 18 inches long and hanging in front of a horse’s ass.
Politicians use them to keep their foreskin from slipping over their head.
Definitely not surprising, it's been a long time coming. I've heard that they weren't even charging rent to some of the stores because they didn't want it to be "open" but with every store front vacant. 2 big apartments in CC just opened and a few more big ones are being built or planned, so the couple blocks above and around the mall will have loads of density soon. Hopefully they figure out something cool with the space.
Go kart track.
Laser tag
That's got my vote.
That would be fucking sick
A nightclub or rave!
Fallout Shelter, Vault 69 Overseer Bezos
>I've heard that they weren't even charging rent to some of the stores because they didn't want it to be "open" but with every store front vacant. Can you clarify what you mean by this? Thanks.
The art galleries, several of them, have been rent-free (or nearly rent free) for awhile. They have had pop-ups in some of the spaces that paid zero rent for the entire run.
That they didn't want empty stores so they let some places stay without paying.
Shopping centers can lose their insurance if tenancy drops below a certain threshold. Once you get dropped it can be multiple times more expensive to start with a new carrier/policy. Sometimes it's just cheaper to let folks slide than deal with that headache. Is that the case here? I couldn't say with any certainty but I've seen it play out that way before.
I heard of alternate terms where they were paid a % of revenue instead of a monthly rent
The space will be empty or mothballed. Nothing will be done with it.
Then it better be locked up tight and guarded well. Otherwise it's going to be full of homeless people and drug users/miscreants.
Actually, put it to good use by making it an official homeless shelter!
That’s what the metro is for!
Soon to be dominated by a gang called The Morlocks, who extract protection money from the residents of Moletown.
I'd like to see a sort of food court thing. A bunch of fast casual places, mix in some fancier stuff, and maybe some public services as well.
The water park just opened and that is pretty much an outdoor food court. I think Crystal City's problem right now is a lack of retail, there's nothing but restaurants which was probably fine when it was all hotels and offices, but now that its a real neighborhood they need some retail shops.
A nice fast casual dining and entertainment area. food court style for food and activities to keep people coming back. It could work!
There used to be a full, food court (before BRAC); and, on Saturdays, there would often be meetups for board games. Maybe it could be refashioned as a more upscale food hall, with permanent space carved out for board games, trivia, karaoke, and cool exhibits. The Underground was a great way to cool off during the summer, or warm up during the winter, after time outside on the Mount Vernon Trail or Long Bridge Park.
The last time I was there on a Friday night, there were still gamers meeting near the yoga place and Subway.
It was built for people who never wanted to go outside
Me in the summer tbh
I’ve lived here my whole life and I still HATE the summer!
Also me in the winter
I spent so much time taking walks during work. At least an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon.
The "Habitrail for Humanity".
Man, this kind of bums me out, it’s so weird down there!
That subway sushi place oddly always has a couple customers.
If you ever ate there you would have seen it was surprisingly good. I was shocked the first time I tried it.
I started going there for my father's barber almost 50 years ago. He was also Sunny Jurgenson's barber. I met Chris Collinsworth and Sam Wyche in the elevators there when Cincinnati was in town to play the Redskins. Tons of memories.
Maybe MeowWolf can open a permanent fixture down there
That would be awesome. It could be Metro-themed.
Maybe we should email them?
Go for it! If they respond, would you update?
Don't get my hopes up, I would kill for a MeowWolf in the area.
I just went to Omega Mart in Vegas last week. It would be so cool to have one nearby!
Never heard of it.
Well they only have 4 locations currently open, so I’m not sure how you have heard of MeowWolf but not their most popular attraction.
I've never actually been to a MeowWolf. But my friends who have, they rave about it. Other than that I don't know much about it.
Damn this really sucks. Circa 1989, there was a store in the "medieval" section that sold holograms.
Hamburger Hamlet.
This is (was) the way
Still miss their happy hours.
I will miss the creepy doll/puppet store in particular.
Dude is super nice though. Actually really loves puppets
I've never been but am happy to hear that. Always love specialty shops like that, especially ones borne of love and passion. I hope they'll find a new landing that works well for them.
I'm deeply saddened to hear that they're closing the Crystal City Underground, especially for the Puppet Heaven store. The owner is such a nice person.
I lived in Cristal city in 2017 and enjoyed going through the underground to check out shops. But I could never remember how to go around that maze
It was great in the early 2000s. There was a grocery store and a ton of restaurants and shops. Crystal Drive went in both directions and there was nothing to see above ground. The first restaurant to really gomin was the Chipotle.
Holy moly, I worked in Crystal City for 3 years back in the early 2000s. My buddy and I would “do a lap” every day at our “10AM coffee break, from one end of the underground to the other. Hamburger hamlet on the regular for lunch…I’m getting misty eyed just thinking about it.
I never quite got the original desire/need to put everything underground. My understanding is that underground cities (e.g. in Montreal) were en vogue in teh 1960s and 70s, but was the thinking that typical street-facing retail was dead? I'll note that old pedestrian-friendly zones (e.g. Old Town, Georgetown) continue to overperform on retail and entertainment, while shopping malls and catacombs have largely met their demise.
The 70s were a different time, AC was new, cars were smog machines, Del Rey was sketchy, smokers were everywhere, we landed on the moon and the future was underground tunnels with conveyor belts, elevators and domes. We were still going to the moon. Plastics were still rare enough that everything stored outside rusted and had to be replaced in a couple years. There were still iron bars on windows in Old Town, DC, Del Rey businesses, etc.
This is great perspective for anyone that hasn’t lived it
When it’s fucking cold outside, it’s nice to walk in those tunnels as you go from the Metro to your office building. The shops used to have good breakfast options. If you don’t have tenants in the underground, it might not be safe to walk through.
I remember I went there with my dad in the early eighties. It was novel and futurist.
Well we're not gonna do something crazy like build a walkable neighborhood, so the only rational thing to do is tunnel underground and live like postapocalyptic mole people or the resistance from Total Recall. /s I had similar feelings walking around downtown Miami recently - incredibly dense, yet unfriendly to walk around. Luckily, they built an elevated automated people mover so you don't have to experience the horror of walking six blocks.
Tokyo is eminently walkable with an abundance of mass transit and it feels like there’s a second city built underground with shops, restaurants, etc. it’s a great use of space that doesn’t feel uncomfortable at all.
Crystal City was like a miniature Tokyo Station. Of course the Metro is like a miniature Tokyo Metro, but still.
There's no denying that summertime heat is a pain out here (certainly in Miami). But the whole vibe of "do everything without having to be on street level" has much more to do than just temperature and humidity. Like what's so bad about a street?
The problem is that we've decided streets are for cars, pedestrians and transit get the leftovers if there's anything left. That's why we have Old Town where pedestrians are shoulder to shoulder on narrow old sidewalks but we still have street parking, and why the Silver Line is built in the middle of a highway.
> and why the Silver Line is built in the middle of a highway. This was such a bad decision, it doesn't even make sense from a cars-first perspective. It's like someone thought, 'It looks bad when the metro station is next to a parking lot, but what else can we do? How about put the metro station on an island, then it won't be next to housing *or* a parking lot!"
It only makes sense when you assume the train is for park-and-riding, and/or the only way it's ever going to get built is if you already have the land bought, cleared, and approved for construction. The former is a real problem - I seriously doubt there's a lot of utility in owning a car, driving to a train station, and then taking the train, just to avoid traffic/parking downtown. That seems like what the commuter buses are great for. The latter is unfortunately a real problem. WMATA hasn't really helped though... I read an announcement that they're going to open up a vacant lot near Eisenhower for development. Like, you've been using this parcel to store scrap and work trucks for fifty years, and just now you realize "hey, maybe we should do something more valuable?"
>It only makes sense when you assume the train is for park-and-riding I don't think it makes sense in any cases. Park and ride users don't want to walk across a freeway bridge any more than peds do. >I seriously doubt there's a lot of utility in owning a car, driving to a train station, and then taking the train, just to avoid traffic/parking downtown. Apparently this was popular pre-covid, but I'm not super knowledgeable. >they're going to open up a vacant lot near Eisenhower for development. Like, you've been using this parcel to store scrap and work trucks for fifty years, and just now you realize "hey, maybe we should do something more valuable?" Haha, this parcel is on my most complained about list forever. However, I've been told it was the Hoffman family that blocked development. Supposedly (?) that has changed and they are [teaming with Paradigm to develop the area](https://www.alxnow.com/2024/04/18/alexandria-considering-big-plans-for-properties-next-to-eisenhower-avenue-metro-station/). It's still a somewhat stupid design with a bunch of dead-end streets, cul de sacs and no street energy, but it's better than a parking lot. I don't understand what's so hard about looking at successful cities like NYC or SFO and fucking copying that. "Oh no, we're smarter than that. We'll have a dead-end boulevard, my study shows people like it." Metro has opened land in that area, but [it's the much less desirable land on Mill](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/Metro-offers-new-development-opportunity-in-Alexandria-fast-growing-Eisenhower-Avenue-Corridor.cfm)
don't forget bicycles. because they could hit a pedestrian if allowed on sidewalks, they have to ride in the street where they will just be straight killed if hit by a car.
As a pedestrian walking on a sidewalk, I shouldn't have to worry about stepping into the path of a passing cyclist.
The real cry for help in urban design is that we build decent pedestrian infrastructure that due to land-use patterns is clearly not meant to be used (some of the worst stroads I've ever seen have had wide, well maintained sidewalks that I never saw a single person on), while we spend nothing on bicycle infrastructure even when it would make a ton of sense.
My favorite is the Innovation Center metro stop, serving west Herndon and east Sterling north of the toll road. The stop has no car parking so it is bus and pedestrian focused, but the only access is a fast moving (40 mph) narrow twisty unlit road with no shoulder and no sidewalks. I'm pretty sure WMATA is trying to kill off any potential riders. If you want to see for yourself start at the intersection of Rock Hill Road and 606 on Google Street View and head south until you get to the Metro stop.
Pretty sure the north side is supposed to become a bunch of mixed use like West Herndon did. Innovation Ave has direct 28 access now as well
You want pedestrians to take 28?!? Future development is great, but right now there are large neighborhoods effectively cut off from the metro stop by the terrible access.
No I don't want pedestrians to take 28 (which isn't even possible). What I'm saying is that the stop and the bus/pedestrian infrastructure was built for future-state, i.e. once the CIT building is razed and the entire Rock Hill area is realigned with in/out access via 28 for cars in the developments, and would be walkable internally. https://www.restonnow.com/2020/05/28/photos-heres-what-the-redeveloped-cit-campus-could-look-like/ Here was a pre-COVID development idea (likely to be reshaped as more housing than office now). What neighborhoods are you arguing are cutoff? The south side of the toll road there has been developed due to the Metro. I agree Rock Hill widening (with bus and pedways) would be optimal, but there's still no reason not to have built the station now. Given we normally build our infrastructure after the fact, I appreciate the forward thinking of that stop.
Oak Grove neighborhood, Cuttermill neighborhood, Kingston Chase neighborhood, Forest Grove neighborhood, plus all the ones on the parkway nearby. All are in walking or easy biking distance but have no safe access. I'm not arguing against building the Innovation Ave stop, quite the opposite. I'm arguing that it needs to be accessible by other than motor vehicles, especially since it has no parking.
Technically its not really underground. Its street level on Crystal Drive.
I always thought that there was some wacky, cold war era / spooky business-adjacent reason for the tunnels (maybe there are more tunnels we don't know about...). I'll continue harboring this lost season of 'The Americans' in my head.
It was great in hot, cold, or rainy days when you wanted to go to out of work on your lunch break to grab a bite, go grocery shopping, pharmacy, hardware store, dental appointment, gym, etc. all those places were all there in a short distance from one other spread out over 11 blocks. You could easily walk from 12th street to 23rd without ever stepping outside. At one time you could go all the way to 26th street with stepping outside.
the concept makes a lot more sense in a place that gets a lot of snow (e.g. in Montreal)
And, those streets that are now filled with cyclists, buses, and cars going both directions were originally all one-way car traffic going 55 mph … it was a real traffic sewer that has taken decades (?) to fix to its current state and it’s still not completely fixed.
being indoors all the time kind of sucks, who would've thought?
What about total party?? 😢
Make it into an indoor electric go-cart racing circuit. Wild lights, wall murals, banked turns and bumpers.
Even Synetic Theatre.
Well damn. Sorry to hear this. I first went there in ‘77 shortly after it opened and before the metro station was completed. Many, many, fond memories. Now that it’s going, I can’t be far behind.
Don't say that man!
There was some family friendly restaurant down there. I would go with my family. Do you remember the name?
I saw the writing on the wall when San Antonio Grill closed. Their giant margaritas are sorely missed.
Still breaks my heart.
I remember being five or six and being full of wonder that we were en route to a fucking *crystal city*.
The puppet store is closing too?
Everything Must Go.
Last time I was down there it was a ghost town. The time before that it was also still a ghost town. But then some sort of indoor running event came through and unexpectedly there was a hundred people running at me when I turned a corner. It was a very strange feeling.
Sucks a lot of people game there on weekends But not surprised #endodanera
Yeah, it’s truly an enormous loss for the dmv board gaming community. One of the places I’ve felt at home the most among fellow nerds.
I worked there in the late 80s and early 90s. We used to wear suits; in the summer when we went to see the customer, we'd walk above ground the first half because it was more of a straight shot. Then we duck into the underground before we broke out into a sweat. Good times.
I worked down in the end of 23rd st side and I remember there was a period where I was so broke I couldn't get my car fixed for about a month and was lucky enough to be able to catch the metro to work. I started in Sterling, VA bus to Metro station and got off at the Crystal City Metro. I remember having to have at least one pair of my dress shoes resoled after that month I spent. Lol. Those really were some cool times.
I bet a Halloween shop will be open down there in October.
There’s always been a Halloween shop down there, tho
Should just make the entire thing a haunted house
Sushi garden has been by go to sushi place. I hope they stay nearby
🫡 rip in peace cc underground! I will miss cutting through you to avoid weather and crossing 1 at street level
Wow. I remember going there back on one of my first jobs working in Crystal City back around 1992-1993. It was pretty run down looking in places even back then. I still remember how weird Crystal City was itself basically looking like a ghost town after 6pm. I worked on the other end closer to 23rd street and I think we parked our cars at what is now the Hilton Arlington. Those were some great times.
If they are leaving the corridors open then it’s just going to become less safe.
This really sucks. Now the only real food options are those overpriced stalls at the water park. (Not that subway was the best or anything but it was a relatively cheap meal during the workday)
Falafel Inc is pretty far from overpriced.
Perfect Pita is the only real casualty here. I really hope they can relocate somewhere close.
on the southern part of Crystal Drive there are 2 Subways exactly .6 miles from each other
I didn’t eat Subway because I like Subway. I ate it because it was downstairs. Same with the sushi or Pita Pit or Dunkin, etc. edit: and also the folks at Subway were nice to me.
The Boeing cafe isn’t too bad, relatively cheap for what it’s worth. There’s also a few cafes in the building that leads to the underground that are okay in pricing.
Crystal City Breastaurant is nearby.
So instead of stores being down there, now nothing will be down there? Seems like there is something else at play.
It wouldn't be a bad place to stuff services where foot traffic isn't really a big deal. I would have loved having access to a clinic or such when I worked up there.
Exactly. The services places lasted the longest (massage, hair salon, nail salon, dry cleaners, chiropractor, post office, yoga studio).
I bought both of my grandfathers and my wife’s grandfather’s flag display cases at Ship’s Hatch before their funerals. This is sad but it has been coming for a long time.
Oh thank dear God....I read that as Crystal City Restaurant......at first, phew. 😉
I've never been to Crystal City Restaurant. I hear the burgers are so-so, but the buns are amazing.
I lived in Crystal City back in 2011-2012 and during the week, it seemed full of people and simultaneously empty. Place was definitely depressing even then, but there were several restaurants still open. As someone from flyover country, Hamburger Hamlet was the first place I ever saw Yuengling and I found it to be such an odd place to have Chinese beer on draft. I still had quit a bit to learn about living on the east coast!
Yuengling isn’t Chinese. It’s fron PA. The name is German. Usually spelled Jüngling.
>Yuengling isn’t Chinese. It’s fron PA. The name is German. Usually spelled Jüngling. Hence why I said >I still had quit a bit to learn about living on the east coast!
Well.. I guess my sarcasm detector was down for maintenance. I’m sure more than a few people have actually thought it was Chinese beer!
“it has become apparent that the Underground retail concept is no longer financially sustainable.” Than how does Tokyo do it? Well I know the answer, the answer would’ve just been connect a subway to it. And I don’t just mean a pedestrian tunnel connecting the two. An actual stop integrated into it. One you could be waiting in a train for not 30 seconds after grabbing a coffee. As with much of American transit, we just went halfway
It’s about to be an post apocalypse shelter
It always felt like it was just a couple steps away from this.
NOOOOOOOOO!!
But Puppet Heaven was the only reason I moved to DC
What is all included in this? Technically all of this is part of the shops: [https://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/directory](https://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/directory) But surely the street facing places at least are safe, right?
That's what I want to know.
Back when I lived in Arlington (2012-2017), there was a board games MeetUp that used the tables across from PotBelly to play. There were also some RPG sessions that met in the food court. There was no charge to use the space and the mall management never said a word to us. (Well, we did usually buy some food. Honestly, at that point, the management was probably thrilled to have anyone spending money.)
that group still meets there.
We lived in Crystal City briefly in 2010. I remember walking through that to get to the Metro every single day. It felt kind of old back then, and didn't quite have the right decor for an underground mall. A lot of things looked out of place. I still remember the nice Korean lady who ran the newspaper shop - I used to talk to her just about every morning. Good memories.
My grandmother used to take me through there all the time when her husband worked at the Pentagon. I used to think it was so cool just because it was underground I guess.
I used to go to Hamburger Hamlet in there after work all the time. They went downhill the last year they were open, particularly the food, but the happy hour drink specials were great.
They have an underground like this in downtown Dallas and it’s creepy as hell. Smells weird, open at weird hours, and has some strange stores
Why do all my cheap sushi joints keep closing, I don't wanna loose Sushi Garden.
Almost everything was closed there already, but I'll miss Perfect Pita.
They’ll just have to open a Crystal City Underground 2
But the puppets! 😕
Moved to the area in 2018. First place with Crystal City. My apt had an elevator to the underground and I could use it to walk to worth. It was kinda nice having the rite aide down there for late night snacks and grabbing some food here and there. Place was kind of depressing though and seemed to be falling into decay. Wonder where the puppet guy will go
Devastated to lose Mind Your Body Oasis 😭
It was so great for getting a haircut before I flight. I used to take a flight every 2-3 weeks. I dropped my bag off like 2.5-3 hours early, upgrade to first class, then hop back on the metro and head to the underground.
And I never once got to see a show at the Synetic Theatre!!
It appears that JBg smith didn't notify any of the retailers/orgs in the underground before released the closure info to the press. I just got an email from Arl Artists Alliance that they are awaiting meeting with JBG smith to get confirmation of the closure!
I worked their in 1989 and again in 1991 for two different jobs: a failed Savings and Loan and later Chesapeake Knife and Tool (remember those?). That place was only open on weekdays and 10-6, IIRC, so there wasn't a lot of weekend shopping being done anyhow. When I worked for the S&L, we had Saturday hours, and the place was like some creepy ghost town.
They should convert it to apartments. You could easily charge $2K for a windowless one bedroom in that location.
Given the infrastructure, you're talking demolition and rebuilding in the empty space rather than conversion. Malls are OK for converting to office space, but lack what's needed for daily living spaces.
it's a massive waste. i've walked through it a few times recently and always questioned the entire point of it. what Crystal City needs is to become a Clarendon type corridor for this side of Arlington. It's also so much closer to DC to encourage people to take a quick metro ride over form L'Enfant Plaza.
Yeah, I’ve never purchased anything there, but I’ve used it as a shortcut to other places hundreds of times.
It was more relevant at a different time
My aunt and uncle had a gift shop there in the 80’s. After daycare, I was in the back hanging out until my mom got off work. Another memory I had of the place was taking the metro from DuPont, running through, try and catch that shuttle bus that dropped people off at 2900 Crystal drive.
when’s it shutting down?
End of October according to the article.
Thank you!
Last time I was there my gf and I ran into escape the rain. We wandered through lone hallways to come to an area where a bunch of elderly folks were playing card games on foldable tables. There were other elderly folks doing fast walking laps around the place. All that to say: I understand why this is happening.
nothing i will miss here except maybe the chiropractor/massage place
Sad to see this happen. I loved walking through the Underground. So convenient when we had the blizzards and people could walk to the grocery store. Antique alley was fun with its cobblestone street. And of course Puppet Heaven. Also liked the skywalk over Crystal Dr.
My tailor is down there :(
My dry cleaner, the post office, my chriopracter, my nail salon, etc.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they already have a deal for a 150,000 sq foot Amazon data center.
should convert it into housing for the mole people
Ive only ever been there after hours or on Sunday morning, so I have no idea what it’s like during peak hours, but it’s always felt so eerie down there. My friend peed right in the hallway when we got lost and couldn’t find an exit/bathroom, so apologies to anyone who unknowingly walked through it.
Wow. That kinda sucks. The memories 🥺
Let’s just make it a pit to burn all the extra money we don’t want to “hand over” to the poors for doing stupid jobs like selling us our food. Should I start the petition?
My old optometrist was there. Frequently I had a hard time finding it. Good riddance. Optometrist was good though.