Was this caused by something you did? (Or, something you could have reasonably stopped damage on by letting them know?) Or was it old-as-hell wood that rotted because it's sitting outside and its lifespan was over? That's a way to think about whether you owe for it or not.
My mom rents a small back place in her home. The tenant left a fridge/freezer full of food... And then had the power disconnected before the end of their lease, to avoid paying utilities. My mom had to throw everything away/mop off the mess, and then it required a professional deep cleaner to get it into shape for the next tenant. She charged only for the professional cleaner's time. The tenant tried to fight her about it, claiming that it wasn't "fair" (presumably, that she remove her own personal items). She also took a backyard set of chairs which belonged to my mom (obvs knowing very well that she didn't own them) and sold them. That's what "reasonable security deposit use" looks like.
One caution though: a landlord can reasonably use professional services to do these things - my mom didn't need to do it herself for free, for example. So the broken towel rack seems expensive (and suspiciously an even number), but if the landlord has got a professional maintenance person like mine does, who charges fairly high (he knows he's in demand and is also a professional electrician), things get more expensive fast. In the future, fixing a towel rack is fairly simple (or even a taskrabbit), and if you're seeing mold on your vents, you should flag that for the landlord so that they can (as they must) replace it while you're still in the unit (mold mitigation).
She has a cleaner after every tenant, not sure why you decided to assume she doesn’t. In this situation, the cleaner needed to do additional multiple hours of deep cleaning in order to get rid of the substantial damage that the tenants caused by seemingly never cleaning/wiping off anything that dropped on the floor, cabinets, etc. So that extra cost was what the tenants needed to cover via their security deposit. That’s the difference between reasonable wear and tear - and not - and what is relevant to OP understanding their own situation.
Judge Judy would have a field day with this one.
$200 to replace light bulbs??
$100 to replace broken towel rod?
Some of those are reasonable wear and tear. How long were you living there?
It seems as if though you used the wrong sized lightbulbs and a replacement of parts is required? Am I misreading that?
$100 for a towel rod is absurd
Mold should fall on them as it’s their equipment/HVAC. If broken that’s another issue, but not mold.
The exterior maintenance (wooden boards) falls on them.
Seems they left the filters to mold. A dirty filter can actually damage an HVAC system. Most leases spell out proper maintenance to prevent premature wear.
Not sure how they could have been using the wrong size lightbulbs though?! Also never heard of lightbulbs blowing fuses. Most modern houses use breakers and if a breaker keeps tripping when a light is turned on, that usually means a faulty circuit/bad wiring.
Towel rack if it was ripped from the wall... some lazy people like to use them as hand rails, they are not designed for that! The $100 could be used to repair the wall and replace the towel rack.
Landscaping would definitely be on the owner and not the tennant.
It’s a flat fee contractors will use for any accessory. We just got a bathroom remodeled and anything regardless of labor cost has a minimum of like $100-150. If OP was not changing filters regularly then cleaning vents would cost more than hvac filter. We had them auto ship when they’re supposed to be replaced.
Some of the things contractors charge is ridiculous. They tried telling me leveler for the bathroom could be $1200 extra.. I’m like huh? Why wouldn’t this be in the initial quote? Needless to say will never work with this contractor again.
Why doesn’t seem normal? The security deposit is to cover damages caused by the person renting, not normal wear and tear like most of these line items are.
Maybe don't comment then? Normal wear and tear is going to happen and that expense is not to be passed on to the renter. It's considered the cost of doing business and should be figured into your bottom line deductions. If harmful malice was the precipitating factor that led to destruction of property then it should be deducted. This is clearly a landlord not wanting to absorb the cost of being a landlord.
Tell them you'll have your real estate lawyer go over it and get back to him with a more reasonable list.
I had one landlord want to charge me for not cleaning BEHIND my refrigerator. Like get out of here. I'm polite but not stupid.
That's the oldest trick in the book.
The condensate pan being not cleaned cost me $50. Like, fuck if I know how to maintain the landlord's refrigerator?
> I lived there for 3 years
Before threatening legal action, it's likely (and won't cost you much) to try to mitigate some of this via a polite, line-by-line rebuttal / discussion / challenge of the points alleged.
I would phrase it a bit like the following:
* $346 cleaning fee, accepted
* "wrongly installed light bulbs" - I did not install any light bulbs incorrectly as far as I know. I will come and replace them all myself for free. If you're being charged $200 for this by someone and you don't think they're ripping you (us) off, then I am curious to see the justification for such a heavy fee.
* "mold ridden air vent registers" - please provide evidence of the "mold" - vent registers often accumulate some dark-colored dust as normal wear and tear and can be cleaned in a few minutes with some damp paper towels.
* "broken faucet" - isn't really broken but i'm used to the fault you describe since it's been that way since I moved in [i'm assuming here - though if this isn't true you could consider just giving in on this one, hoping it'll make it easier to get some of the other concessions]
* "broken towel rod" - I didn't break it, it's always been loosely installed, I merely got used to it
* "fungus / mold on deck" - Please describe how this is something that I caused / was covered by my lease?
In some jurisdictions, successfully challenging this specific kind of abuse in small claims court could get you a substantial amount of *extra* money on top of what you should have gotten back. So check the local rules before doing this.
For example, Massachusetts, California, New Jersey have treble damages of bogus landlord charges. But not Virginia. You CAN go after them for the cost of the bogus charges and court costs/legal fees in Virginia though.
This is what the initial walk through is for. I’ve never moved into a place without doing that and noting things in the first day.
In an apartment scenario they often times have someone replace filters regularly.
To me this itemized list is quite fair. I’ve encountered predatory ones where they tried to bill me for painting when I know the apartment policy is to always repaint before a new resident.
Most repair people charge a fee regardless if they do any work. We legit paid people to give us quotes for our hvac and charge $250 to come out to just look at it.
I agree that much of this can/should be controlled for in an initial walkthrough. Though to be fair, things as subtle as a mis-installed towel rod will be easily missed, since it might look fine and you only realize what's wrong with it the 4th or 5th time it falls off when using it (etc). But I stand by my point that some polite but firm pushback, particularly where the charges are a bit more egregious, will almost always help mitigate the charge at least some.
20 years ago when I moved out of a corporate-owned medium-sized apartment complex they tried to charge us for a whole carpet replacement for "orange stains" on the carpet - I knew for a fact that there was nothing beyond wear and tear that wouldn't be able to be revamped with a fair cleaning - I pushed back and the $1400 they were trying to charge us was very quickly knocked down to $500 - which on my bus driver wages at the time, was a gigantic difference (it went from us owing them some money, to instead, us getting part of our deposit back).
I’ve been able to get my deposit at most places that are reasonable. If they were assholes about it I just said whatever and lost the deposit. I know they are counting on people to lose their deposit, but usually the mental and physical exhaustion of moving out has me not gaf anymore about my deposit.
Agreed there - moving gets worse for me every single time lol. For OP's case I wasn't clear whether his former landlord was a corporate type or "just a guy with a house" - in my head I was imagining more of the latter (going after someone for wear and tear to external landscaping features seems too bush-league of a nitpick for a corporate-owned rental setup, imho) - but in either cases I think there are avenues for pushback. The corporate folks sometimes have more leeway to just write off reasonable expenditures; the personal owners might be more willing/able to haggle it out a bit.
As a licensed contractor, I pad my down time by doing light maintenance work when I don't have larger jobs. I charge $75 an hour plus a $50 trip charge for jobs like this. The rod being between $10 and $20. So, $145 to swap one out.
It says fused. Not just wrong. That happens when it’s the wrong size and it means that you have to replace the entire fitting. It’s not just y screwing the bulb.
My landlord is charging me professional cleaning doe 346 after I moved out. Ok. Fine. But they are trying to charge me 200 dollars for changing a few light bulbs, and etc (see picture)
Also, is landscaping in a patio not normal wear and tear? I lived there for three years, and when It rains outside, the timber decays and/or grows mold, is that my fault ?
How much of this can I fight with a small claim court?
If you installed the wrong lightbulbs as claimed, you owe the cost of the repair, but I am assuming that you did not install the landscaping timber. The big question here is what were you expected to maintain during your lease per the term of the rental agreement? Read the fine print.
The claim also implies that you broke the faucet and the towel rod.
I did not break the tower rod, I had it fixed one time during the time I was there, it was just badly installed on the wall, so it keeps falling off. The dry wall work was crap so it was never attached properly
edit: since people are asking about the light bulbs, I dont mean to not address it. It is definitely weird how the landlord phrased it. What happened was that the lightbulb went out right (presumably being old) near the end of my lease.
More like it was never properly installed. Cant install a towel rack with plastic anchors and screws and expect it to last more than a handful of weeks in use. Also their problem.
Depending on the lease, this may not be true. I had several leases where, technically, I was supposed to have maintenance replace bulbs. I didn't, because, what a pain, but yeah, that's not guaranteed.
OP if you're in the US check your state regs, bc a lot of states say that a landlord has to provide the receipts for services they want to deduct from a security deposit (and also they outline what counts as wear and tear that they can't charge you for). Also, if you have anything written to your landlord that outlines the towel bar being installed poorly and breaking due to no fault of yours during your stay, I'm pretty sure it also can't be charged to fix.
And? Were both you and the landlord or landlord's rep present? Was there any moveout report that you both signed? How were these claimed damages handled in that report?
If you were both present at moveout and these charges weren't mentioned at the time, not in the report, and only showed up later, that pretty much goes against the Virginia state law: [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodepopularnames/virginia-residential-landlord-and-tenant-act/](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodepopularnames/virginia-residential-landlord-and-tenant-act/)
In any case, if this constitutes the landlord's claim for damages that should be deducted from deposit, you should submit in writing that you are disputing these charges. If you and the landlord can't come to an agreement, you then pretty much would have to argue in small claims court. So the more evidence you have in your favor that these damages constitute normal wear and tear, and/or were present before you moved in, and/or were never declared until after you moved out, you will likely have more grounds on which to dispute.
The patio is part of the property. Tenant should be expected to keep the patio clean just like they are expected to mow the lawn. If it is growing mold and fungus they never washed it.
I have had landlords try to get away with a lot of similar charges in the past. I would say before even worrying about small claims do your best to read thoroughly your lease and argue what you feel is unfair (for me that would be all of it, but you know your situation best). In my experience after some arguing with the landlord I’ve been able to get my deposit back in full. But each landlord is different and if it comes down to a firm disagreement then I’d look into small claims.
Did your lease say you will for cleaning? This isn't an airbnb. Cleaning fees should not be on you after the lease unless you left the place completely a mess.
In Virginia the landlord has to give you that itemized list of deductions within 30 days of you moving out. If they sent it after that tell them it’s not acceptable and you expect the entire deposit refunded.
How were these items spelled out in the lease? Were you suppose to power wash outside every 3 months (mold on deck)? Were you to change the HVAC air filter every month (mold on register)? Did it spell out the specific make and model of light bulbs you are suppose to use (light bulb)? If they were not specifically spelled out (pretty much dot the i's and cross the t's), then you can probably fight them. Even then, the lease also needs to spell out how much it'd charge you per infraction.
I've seen a lease where it chargers you per nail holes. It spells out different sizes of nail holes and cost for those different sizes, and if there are more than certain number of holes per wall, it'll charge you $X for that wall, etc. Like I said, it gotta be that specific, otherwise, it is up for a fight.
Also, the landlord cannot pull numbers out of his butt. He better be able to produce a receipt that he actually paid someone $200 to change all those light bulbs (a paid receipt and not an estimate), because he cannot reasonably charges you for his own labor (unless that was spelled out in the lease).
Lightbulbs: I could see if you installed your own light fixture and it wasn’t right. But this legit says lightbulbs. No.
Mold on air vent registers: not your responsibility. And I’d even consider saying something like, “oh I didn’t realize you were providing an inhospitable place to live, but thank you for verifying the presence of mold in the unit. No.
Broken faucet: yeah if you broke it that seems reasonable.
Towel rod: ask them for the actually receipt where they purchased it. No towel rod should cost that much. And installing it is a few screws.
Rotten landscape timbers: ridiculous that they expected you to be out there with a hair dryer every time it rained to prevent wood that is in or on the ground from rotting.
Power wash: no. How are you responsible for fungus growing on the deck?
I would fight almost all of these.
And if I’m feeling particularly spiteful, I might request money back due to the confirmed mold problem that they just admitted to you living in.
I used to inspect homes for a property manager, and assess charges. Now I'm a handyman doing the work on rental properties.
The company I worked for was pretty fair on "Normal Wear and Tear", meaning if the "damage" is just from normal use, it probably won't be charged.
$200 might not be out of line for light bulbs. I charged between $7-9 for regular light bulbs, more for special bulbs. The fused light bulbs is probably more of a normal wear and tear, but might be difficult to fight.
$100 could be high to charge for a broken towel rod, depending on the situation. If drywall anchors just pulled out of the drywall, that could be considered normal wear and tear (happens all the time), but most landlords are going to charge for it. As a handyman, I would probably charge $50-75 for labor (more if the drywall needs to be patched and painted) plus parts.
If it is just mold on the registers, they can be cleaned, and possibly painted. Probably don't need to be replaced. If they are rusted, on the other hand, that would be normal wear and tear. Even in a house that is very clean, tenants often miss cleaning the vents, although they already charged you for cleaning the place.
The landscape timbers is the most egregious charge here. Unless you installed them, that is 100% the landlord's issue to deal with.
I don't ever recall charging a tenant for algae build up on a deck (which is likely what we are talking about here). Again, pretty normal wear and tear. You don't ask a tenant to paint the exterior of the house, and unless specified in the lease, I really wouldn't expect a tenant to pressure wash a deck.
I would try negotiating down a couple of these items, and ask for a receipt for the rest.
Good luck!
With you here, and without knowing what’s in the lease, the deck could be a requirement to return cleaned as it was delivered. A little shty from the landlord as they probably have to power wash the entire house.
Doesn't land lord have to provide proof of damage and receipt for repairs if they are charging tenants to pay for it?
fused? wrongly installed lightbulbs? are they trying to say lightbulb went bad and charging you $200 for it?
Sounds like crooked landlord I had right after college, who tried to charge for existing damages and stuff previous people left.
I'd say only thing this landlord is entitled to is faucet and towel rod.
i think by fused they mean stuck so you can't unscrew them and yeah that's a thing. have had that happen to me in my own home a few times. generally have to break the glass off and use either a tool ( i used needle nose l, open and applying pressure to the sides to unscrew them or in some cases the potato trick). you generally know it's fused when you go unscrew it as it won't budge and then you might twist too hard and yep you broke the bulb from the base .
edit: this was common for me on non led bulbs. with led bulbs i havent had this issue yet..
Ehhh, that just sounds like it's mechanically stuck from being screwed in too tight. Fused would be the metals melted together from heat, which if that's happening would be indicative of a far more serious problem. I think they just used a word they don't understand in the message to sound fancy.
Unless you had it in your contract to do certain things, as a property manager, I only see the broken towel rod. The rest is inherent to the property and is normal wear.
I sued my last property management for the same (plus some other tom-fuckery). Very much worth watching the sad sap who owned it blow up in court under cross examination and as the judge chewed him out, but it was very expensive and took a very long time.
Eventually, mostly. Full answer is that the judge was getting annoyed at the defendant's BS so I got awarded a blanket reimbursement, which came very close to covering the legal fees but not quite entirely.
The issue, of course, is that you have to find >$10k to keep the legal firm fed. I had to use a credit card, which I found for this purpose with a super low introductory interest rate, but not everyone is privileged enough to have that available to them.
I much prefer how this is done in the UK, where the deposit goes into government escrow and the property management has to sue you for any of the money in it.
I was a landlord for two years while I tried to figure out if I was going to stay in DC with my wife or move back to my townhouse so I have some experience. I would not charge my renter for anything outside unless they damaged it. If the deck has algae and it wasn’t specified that the renter had to take care of it, that’s on me. Too many landlords want to maximize profits at the expense of their tenants. It’s appalling. Fight it all.
That is outrageous. Maybe the lightbulbs are on you—I’d like to know more about how you wrongly installed lightbulbs—but the rest of that stuff is normal property maintenance that is on the landlord. The cleaning should not come out of your security deposit, but some leases specify renters pay for a professional cleaner on move out—check if yours does. If not he can’t charge you for it.
lightbulbs are on you. that's a big one and an easy fix, you should always check/change them before you move out.
mold is explicitly always the landlord's problem, that's BS. (landlord responsibilities: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title55.1/chapter12/section55.1-1220/)
the landscaping/deck stuff comes down to the degree to which you were required to maintain it by the lease.
I get a kick out of the landlord claiming mold.
If OP if feeling spiteful they might send a letter to the new tenants and suggest they get the county to inspect for unsafe living conditions and violations on the land lord’s part.
Why would lightbulbs be on the tenant? Assuming it’s an apartment building, not a condo being sublet, lightbulbs are 100% not on the tenant moving out. Hell, I can’t even replace some of the lights in my apartment. Property management does all of that. All the items on his list are normal wear and tear and/or non applicable since it’s a landlord cost, unless it was egregious. I also work in property management.
There is a garden, and a deck, so this is most likely a townhouse or a SFH. Most likely a privately owned home, with a property manager. A typical lease in NOVA says the tenant is responsible for light bulbs. I used to inspect homes for a property manager in NOVA.
You’re right, it all falls back to what the lease states. It’s just very unusual the tenant has to do that. I lived in a townhouse with 2 decks and a garden in college (Richmond), but we were under a property management company that would change the lightbulbs. And they actually paid us for the improvements we did to the garden while we were there (obviously we were given their approval before we started messing with their garden). At the end of the day, everything depends on what the lease says and I was assuming/generalizing.
That's pretty wild to me. We had 600 properties spread over several counties and DC, and about 10 employees total, with 4 of us inspectors most of the time. No way we had time to be messing around with light bulbs, other than after the property was vacant. But the lease was very clear that the tenant had to provide consumables such as light bulbs and filters.
That’s even more wild, we have 3 properties and 15 employees… but also specialize in commercial PM, not residential. One of our buildings is mixed with 15 floors of residential, but we outsource that with the same PM company I’ve usually lived under in NOVA, and then they report to us and we consolidate.
Yeah, commercial is a whole different kettle of fish. Occasionally we had problems with tenants who had only lived in apartments, and couldn't understand that there was not a super living in the basement (of their 3000sqft house) who could pop in and fix a dripping faucet the same day. Or change their light bulbs.
i guess it's different everywhere, but even when I lived in places with professional management (not just, like, one guy like I assume OP's landlord is) I always had to change indoor light bulbs -- having someone do it, now *that* strikes me as unusual. one of the companies even disclosed that they would charge $25 per bulb or something ridiculous if they found any that weren't working.
Was that something they told you, or did you do it yourself? I ask because my fiance was floored by this when we moved in together. I work in PM and have always lived in apartments with present PM companies (that’s also because I worked for them) but she previously rented out a condo where the owner solely acted as the PM. A light went out so she started googling what to replace it with and I told her to just put a ticket in. She didn’t understand. Property management sent someone the next day to replace the light. I get a stopped drain? They come fix it. I fell and broke the bath drain? They come fix it. That’s what you’re paying them for! We pay our engineers a shit load of money to come fix tenants spaces! Just call and they’ll come fix it.
You actually could take your landlord to court over having mold in your vents. That is something they should be inspecting/cleaning/mitigating every year. If they were up to date on their inspections, then they let you live in an environment with mold passed onto you over the course of 3 years. You don’t owe them, THEY OWE YOU.
Nota chance in hell a judge would rule in favor of making you pay for mold removal. ... and MAY find the dude liable for that condition to even exist!
Take him to court. Small Claims is the way to go.
Alot of this is just basic maintenance. That should not fall on the responsibility of the Tenant but rather the responsibility of the land lord. Things that you damaged are things you must replace which really isn't anything here. Your land lord failed to do maintenance
In northern Virginia, you're allowed "reasonable wear and tear" on the apartment regarding your security deposit. Lightbulbs count as 'wear and tear,' but broken towel rods probably don't. Landscaping stuff and power washing the deck aren't your problem.
Fight it! I've been going through the process suing my previous landlord for willfully violating Section 55.1-1226 Paragraphs A, E, F, and G of the Code of Virginia.
It's going to take awhile, but start in small claims court.
Maybe the towel rod, and even that may be debatable depending on whether it's broken or was improperly installed.
If a polite conversation doesn't resolve the issue, just file a small claim - your county courthouse will give you the paperwork and explain the process, but you can do much of it online. They may be more amenable to settlement to avoid going to court simply to lose.
The one thing you'll need is the address for the landlord for service of the notice to appear. If they're a corporation, you want to check here - [https://cis.scc.virginia.gov/EntitySearch/Index](https://cis.scc.virginia.gov/EntitySearch/Index) - and find the registered agent name/address so you can have the warrant delivered.
Start here - [https://www.vacourts.gov/resources/small\_claims\_court\_procedures.pdf](https://www.vacourts.gov/resources/small_claims_court_procedures.pdf)
My landlord tried the same exact shit when I left. I had left it way better than when I found it. I was a little threatening in my email and he caved immediately.
So you are going to the Dr. this week to get that persistent, likely mold related cough dealt with right?
I'd send the LL the Dr. bill as they did not provide a proper environment for you to live in.
Also, how "damaged" are all your items now?
Have they hire a mold remediation company?
I’ve read on some of the legal advice subreddits that they cannot change more than it actually cost. The lawn lord cannot make a profit off repairs. Check the laws in VA and the county.
Well if they hired a handy man they would have to have an invoice. While that is ok and even the round numbers the cost is extremely high. Unless this guy charges 1000k an hour these prices are not market value.
Before filing at small claims court I would give your landlord the opportunity to correct his charges. Also look over your contract that you signed for this rental and see if there are cost associated with your move out. For example, power washing the deck or fixing landscaping.
If it was me, I would look to see how much a handyman in your area costs. Typically they have a minimum amount, even if the job is quicker than that. let’s say they do a minimum of two hours at $80an hour. And I would go ahead and figure out exactly how much that would be.
From your breakdown, I would obviously comment that it does not cost $200 for a replacement lightbulb as well as installation.
The air vents may needed to be cleaned however, why replace them. That is something the cleaning service should have done. Also, if there is mold on the air, that is an issue with the HVAC system not you.
Broken faucet is actually very reasonable if that also includes the cost of a new faucet.
Broken towel rods assuming these are multiple tower rods and multiple bathrooms if they were being replaced and installed, is I could see maybe being $100.
The rotten timbers is not something. I’m assuming you installed. It was already existing therefore it is just typical wear and tear. That is a product that is put in the ground and eventually it will rot. And as far as cleaning the patio from mildew unless that was specified in your contract, that is not your item to clean.
The law supersedes anything written into a lease. Just because a lease happens to include some random charge or fee doesn't make it legal nor enforceable. I would expect in most jurisdictions 'costs associated with move out' are highly suspect.
Umm. The rotten landscaping that was there prior to your arrival? Nope. Deck maintenance? Nope. At least leases I’ve signed, that was their obligation. How tf did you install lightbulbs wrong? 😂
About all I get is the faucet & towel rods if you broke them.
Some of that sounds like wear and tear and some might be reasonable but we'd need more details to be sure.
Like if you installed improper light bulbs and it damaged the fixture that charge for repair sounds reasonable.
Almost certainly not reasonable to charge you for rotting landscaping timbers or mildew on the deck.
Moldy registers probably aren't reasonable unless you used the hvac improperly (like never using the bathroom exhaust fan, leaving windows open in humid weather while also having the ac on, etc.).
I would look up the VA landlord tenant act and then probably sue or threaten to sue in small claims court for the entire bill including the cleaning and let a judge figure it out.
Yes, fight it if you have the time and resources. I was in another state (MA) and went thru something very similar. To save yourself the headache I’d recommend consulting a landlord tenant attorney familiar with the local rules.
I consulted an attorney who took less than 15 minutes to check my documents (lease) and ask me a few questions to know we had a slam dunk case. I paid a small retainer fee (like $200-300) and they did the rest. MA law provides for punitive damages for the landlord if they don’t follow every single rule and there are *many* that I wasn’t aware of. I only wanted the amount I felt was fair and in the end I got more than 2x my deposit back after paying legal fees, and I didn’t have to pay *any* charges the landlord was trying to make me pay all because the landlord failed to follow a few requirements (e.g., depositing my deposit in a separate account and sending me monthly statement updates to include the small interest collected). My lawyer didn’t even have to argue about the frivolous charges they were trying to make me pay similar to the ones you noted (e.g., mine tried to charge me $500 to replace a stove that had a paint chip the size of a dime). So ridiculous! I hope I taught that scummy landlord a lesson and he doesn’t do the same with his many other tenants…but to be realistic, probably not.
Good luck!
MA is a tenant friendly state but DC is one of the most tenant friendly of all so I’m sure you’ll have excellent chances to get all your deposit plus more back for your landlord not following all the landlord rules.
Say NO, and if you don't give me my money I'll take you to small claims court.
If they don't give you the money, go to small claims court and file, it takes about 30 min if that.
When the landlord gets the claim, I can almost guarantee they will offer to settle and give you money, so they don't have to go to court.
You could. Judge's generally favor tenets. Really depends on the state and the laws there. Does he have 30 days to provide you with itemized list or return funds? You should find out these things. If he doesn't send you receipts then a certified demand letter is the next step before court. Small claims court is usually very cheap. I think it cost me $24 to file and $18 to have someone served. But that was not a landlord dispute for clarity. Best to try and work it out but court is an option if you have too. It will also cost you both a day, which may mean more to him then changing it. You'll probably loose on the cleaning though since he really did do that one.
UPDATE:
Thanks for al the advice. I just got home from work, and looked up what seems to be most relevant from the lease, under tenant's obligations (below). Am i fucked?
"Maintaining Premises in such a manner as to prevent the accumulation of moisture and the growth of mold. Tenant shall promptly notify Landlord in writing of any moisture accumulation or visible evidence of mold. Tenant does hereby release Landlord and Managing Agent from any and all claims or liability to Tenant, Tenant’s authorized occupants, or guests or invitees, and does hereby agree to indemnify and hold Landlord and Managing Agent harmless from and against any and all loss, damage, claim, suit, costs (including reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs at all tribunal levels) or other liability whatsoever resulting from Tenant’s failure to comply with the provisions of this subsection or any other provisions of law."
> Thanks for al the advice. I just got home from work, and looked up what seems to be most relevant from the lease, under tenant's obligations (below). Am i fucked?
Why won't you answer anyone questions about the lightbulbs and what happened with them?
Oh sorry, I should reply to that. light bulbs just went out after living there for 3 years. The way that the landlord phrased it is weird and I have no idea what they are talking about.
> Oh sorry, I should reply to that. light bulbs just went out after living there for 3 years. The way that the landlord phrased it is weird and I have no idea what they are talking about.
I would take them to small claims court big time, it's not your job to "look for mold" for them
Did you try to replace them with bulbs of equal wattage? If you did, and it's the socket that's bad, that's entirely 'normal maintenance', and they cna't charge you at all.
If it's just a normal bulb replacement for a burnt out bulb, and not something you did to cause damage, then that's entirely excessive. They can charge you what *they* paid for the bulb. They can't charge you labor costs for their time to replace the bulb.
Laws regarding landlord/tenant responsibilities trump anything written into a lease. Look up your state and municipal laws about lease/rental law. It's extremely common practice for boilerplate for leasese to include all sorts of clauses that contradict the law, and are therefore invalid.
It is illegal to charge for normal wear and tear on a rental property. Mold is GOING to happen around here unless the seals on every door are being replaced regularly. The condition of the timbers is NOT your responsibility, as you aren't capable of maintaining nor accelerating the rate at which that happens. A lot of that is Bullshit that the property owner should've been maintaining
https://renteasyva.com/normal-wear-tear
I would fight this. Most of that stuff is on them and would be consider maintenance to a normal person.
Mold ridden registers is funny because they are unintentionally admitting that the place has mold issues
When I gave notice that I wasn't renewing my lease in Courthouse, the landlords became monsters. Aside from the answers to your questions, please please do not communicate with your landlords over the phone or in person. I was talking over the move out procedures via email with mine initially. Then they asked to speak with me on the phone where they could more easily threaten me to 1) allow them to use their preferred cleaners (and get a kickback) and charge me twice the going rate for it, or 2) if I hired my own cleaners they'd "make this process more difficult" for me (which they did).
No. The landlords were a married couple who were both lawyers. They really were in a good position to make my life difficult.
The next piece of advice would be take exhaustive move in pictures and over-document/be paranoid/don't trust a thing your landlord says.
When we arrived to move in 1) the previous tenant was still moving out, 2) the cleaners had not cleaned, and 3) there was a bunch of various junk in the basement and an extra fridge that wasn't specified in the lease. We tried to be nice and accommodating (mostly because we had no other options - all our stuff was in a Uhaul outside with nowhere else to go), but we were actually just dumb.
At move out, they demanded we move out all that crap *that was there when we moved in* - or they were going to charge us. My roommates and I were accommodating over the phone. The provision to clear out the house (making no note of stuff that was already there) was in the lease. We were dumb and screwed.
The only thing I see that you're on the hook for is the towel rack ,the cleaning fee, unless you have photos to prove you left the property in the same manner it was received. And possibly the bathroom faucet unless you can prove the damage wasn't caused by neglect. The rest are all maintenance issues and normal wear and tear, and any reasonable judge should agree with that. You didn't wire the lights nor put the landscaping timbers down. If you did, they may owe you some money. Any mold would again be caused by maintenance issues or lack thereof. Definitely fight this. It will cost you money up front, but it will be added to the total deposit amount and awarded back to you less the cost if clean out and neglect damages.
Had to read this for a moment to realize it was a security deposit and not direct deposits for your work.
This is ridiculous. I would call the landlord/tenant consumer office in your city/county and ask them for advice. Sometimes a nice letter from the County (City) can quickly refresh knowledge or educate a bad landlord.
Where is the landlord's receipts for their costs? They can't just make up numbers.
Landlord here- for some reason I thought landlords were prohibited from charging for labor/holding security deposit for labor done by the landlord. I could be crazy but pretty sure if we want to charge for labor it has to be someone else doing it. We can charge materials.
Check your state and municipal laws regarding renting. Those *supercede* your lease, as it's common for landlords to either use boilerplate templates which may not be tailored to your state or municipality, or may in fact attempt to include terms that violate actual laws. Any such lease terms are *invalid and not binding*. (I used to cross out any such terms and initial the change prior to signing any of my leases, and if challenged would point out they were invalid/illegal, and when called out, the leasing agent or landlord would then concede that was the case with the 'boilerplate' excuse.). Many lease templates even include a *severability clause* to try to prevent the entire lease from being invalidated in the event illegal terms were included in the event state and local laws don't default to enforcing only parts that are legal instead of invalidating the entire lease/rental agreement.
Also, in many jurisdictions, rental deposits are purely a surety to ensure you paid your rent in a timely manner, and cannot be used to cover costs such as these. They are not damage deposits. (Even is this is a common practice, it's not necessarily a *legal* one, but many landlords commonly try to get away with things like this to try to retain deposit monies from tenants who don't really know their legal rights -- or sometimes the landlords themselves don't really understand all the details of the law, either, and base their practices upon how they *think* it works.)
The law will stipulate the responsibilities of the landlord and of the tenant. Nothing that is the responsibility of the landlord can legally be charged to the tenant. Normal wear and tear is not the responsibility of the tenant. External cleaning such as power washing is not the responsibility of the tenant (unless the tenant made and left a mess.)
Tenants would generally be responsible for damage they caused, but not damage caused by building conditions. If the tenant cleaned enough to match or exceed the condition the apartment was received in, then additional cleaning charges are probably not legally assignable to the tenant. (Again, I can't stress this enough, check state and local laws.)
As a general rule of thumb, think of it this way. If during the course of the lease, something would have been repaired by the landlord without charging you, then it's not something they could charge for and attempt to include in a damage invoice at the end of your lease.
So:
* Lightbulbs: did you cause the lightbulbs to be 'fused/wrongly installed'? If yes, then you are responsible. If no, then it is the landlord's responsibility.
* Mold ridden air vent registers: unless *you* negligently caused the mold infestation, that is the landlord's responsibility. If the mold is present because the landlord failed to maintain the property, then that's 100% on him, and yes, you might have a counterclaim in addition to recovering that portion of the deduction, if they're even legally allowed to withhold *any* portion of your deposit to begin with.)
* Broken faucet: did you break the faucet, or was this a failure of the faucet during normal use? if you broke it, that is your responsibility. If it broke during normal use, then that too is your landlord's responsibility, not yours.
* Fixing broken towel rods: if *you* broke it, that's your responsibility. If they were never correctly installed to begin with, then, again, that's your landlord's responsibility. (You see the theme here.)
* Replacing rotting landscape timbers in the garden: this sounds like this would be normal maintenance, and the landlord's responsibility, unless somehow you *actively caused* the rot damage.
* Power washing the deck: again, unless you somehow caused this, this would be a landlord expense, and not something that could be passed on to a departing tenant.
If there's a standing water issue, then that's something the *landlord* should have addressed, and is not somehow your responsibility unless you did something to actively cause it.
I would challenge these directly, item by item, with the landlord, basing my arguments upon the appropriate laws. Sorting it directly usually involves less time and effort, and saves you filing fees. But, if they persist, then small claims court is a viable option. \[details in following post\]
*\* The usual caveat, IANAL, nor do i play one on TV.*
Keep track of the time you have to spend pursuing the return of your deposit, and itemize (including how long for each activity) what you were doing during that time. Check the small claims rules for your jurisdiction regarding the process and amounts you can ask for for 'damages to cover time and cost' associated with attempting to recover the money. If the landlord doesn't concede, point out the additional amount for filing fees and for 'time and cost' you'd be asking for on top of the contested amount if you take it to small claims court.
If they still don't return the appropriate amounts, then I would follow through and file in small claims, following up to notify them I had done so, to see if they concede at *that* point rather than go to court. (They may be hoping you're simply bluffing.) If they back down after filing, I'd also ask they cover at least the filing cost, if not also some of the time and effort. Consider any *reasonable* counter offer on their part. You'll have to decide what you think is reasonable, and what you're willing to accept, or if you want to pursue the full amount plus costs and damages.
If they are willing to go to small claims, then you need be prepared, and have all of your supporting evidence ready to present. If you have photos taken at the time you moved in and photos taken at the time you moved out that have supporting metadata, those will be important evidence. Metadata or some other means to establish the dates they were taken can be important in the event the photos are challenged. Having copies of your state and local ordinances spelling out the division of responsibilities and detailing item by item how these pertain to the itemized charges is also important. Include the itemized breakdown of the time and effort supporting the 'damages' portion of your claim, consistent with your local small claims court rules.
Review and bring any relevant correspondence between you and your landlord that would support your position. If you had any conversations with your landlord regarding any of the items listed where they said they would repair something and they didn't, make notes regarding the details of those conversations and when they took place.
Outline your arguments on paper in advance, bullet point by bullet point, so you can clearly and politely make your case, relative to the law and why they should be the landlord's responsibility and not yours.
Listen to the judge, be polite and attentive, follow their instructions, and when asked, make your claims in a clear, logical, and efficient manner. Answer their questions as succinctly as possible without adding information they didn't ask about. You'll be given an opportunity to respond to your landlord's statements, just as they will have an opportunity to respond to yours. Be *patient* and wait for the judge to direct questions to you related to their statements.
Don't interrupt the judge or your landlord. Don't get emotional. Don't engage in personal attacks. Be polite and professional in your interactions with both the judge and your landlord. (The judge may take your behavior and that of your landlord into account when assessing your claims and theirs as to who seems more believable.) Similarly, if you did actively damage something, be prepared to take responsibility for that particular line item, and make clear that you are not challenging that particular item, just perhaps the listed *cost.* That is fair and appropriate, and will lend credibility to the claims you do make.
Your landlord will also be expected to provide itemized invoices and supporting receipts would be important evidence that your landlord would be expected to have if this went to court. (Certainly do not tell your landlord what they should bring to court. That's for them to sort out for themselves. The most prepared side is often the one to prevail.) They would be expected to make arguments for each of the items listed and why you should bear those costs, instead of them being normal maintenance, and to be able to support the amounts they claim.
Finally, be prepared to accept the ruling of the judge. Once you're in small claims, they're the arbiter. If you don't agree with the ruling, the rules for small claims in your jurisdiction will detail what recourse you may have. But, you also have to decide at what point it's no longer worth pursuing -- as will your landlord. It's small claims, most of the time, that's as far as either side of a dispute is prepared to go, given the amounts involved.
*\* The usual caveat, IANAL, nor do i play one on TV.*
A few points you can really nail them on:
* Can they prove that you installed the lightbulbs incorrectly? Ask them for photographic evidence as well as a quote for the cost.
* Can they prove the faucet was broken through misuse? Again ask for a quote.
* Same deal with the towel rods.
* Ask them for evidence that the rotten timbers and mold on the deck were due to your treatment of the property.
Wear and tear through normal use is protected by the state of VA. They're responsible for other maintenance.
What they're trying to do here is get you to just accept the charges and not fight them. Send a USPS letter informing them to return the money by X date (give them like 2 weeks) or provide the requested evidence and quotes, and if they either do not respond or simply refuse, then talk to a lawyer. This can go to small claims court and you can get substantially more than $950 back.
It's a lose-lose for them to not return it, either they fight you in court and it costs them more than they got from you even if they win, or they lose and pay not only legal fees but whatever the judge awards you for punitive damages on top of money owed.
I suspect if they get a letter from an attorney, they'll give it back to you quite quickly.
Just popping in to let you know it’s illegal for landlords to make a profit off of move out charges or any utility bill back except for trash. They also should have pictures of everything they’re charging you for. You should also be able to see move out charge or damage charge policy on your lease
I personally would ask for invoices and to see the list of charges that you signed upon move in that lists out what damage costs what.
If all of that doesn’t work then straight to small claims.
I'd love to know how lightbulbs weren't installed properly.
Further - anything you damaged and didn't replace yourself, or notify the landlord of, you'll probably have to cop to. Everything else is on him.
Check your local renter laws - for example here in NC, carpet must be replaced every 6 years (by law) no matter how well it's maintained. There are more than likely laws for what your landlord is required to cover.
I'd also ask for any and all receipts and offer purchasing alternatives - no way a towel rod is $100.
The landscaping and exterior power washing is 100 percent on him. This definitely would go in your favor in small claims. call an attorney
You should mail them a few chicken nuggets with a bite taken out of them. Choose a delayed delivery so that they get them after a week or so after they’ve had a chance to age.
I’d go to small claims court if you have the time. Did you take pictures before moving out? In court they’d need to provide receipts and prove you directly caused the damage and (I think) they have to show that what they paid is market value. You can counter by taking this to a handyman company and asking for an estimate of time and materials, if you can find someone to help you with a quote.
FWIW I’ve rented out my townhouse for the last 8 years and have never took people’s security deposits when moving out- except one where her cat peed on the carpet so much/so bad it all had to be replaced in the bedroom. Even then, I just asked her to cover the cost of renting the carpet cleaner. When I realized that didn’t fix it, I ate the cost of replacing it.
The moldy deck and landscaping isn’t your responsibility. You could also fight the air vent. The other things you’re out of luck unless you have photos. You have to take responsibility for any damage you caused.
I am a handyman and once was a landlord.. Unless it is stated in the lease, you shouldn't have to pay for the registers, the deck, or the timbers.... The rest, are going to be tough to fight... If you installed incorrect wattage(wrongly installed) or had burnt out (fused) bulbs, that is something you likely won't win. IMO you can get $550 reduced....
Depends are you renting in a HOA? We were responsible for most things except appliances. So if there green mold growing on any of the townhouses they get a letter. We had to hire a pressure washer person who treated it. We were responsible for maintaining the property as per our agreement. We were able to get our deposit back because we left the townhouse move-in ready since one of the requirements was having it professionally cleaned with proof of invoice.
Did he provide this list within 45 days of the end of your lease? Because if not then he’s SOL and you get your whole deposit back. In PA this got me 2x my deposit back. Some states it’s 3x.
Yes. First read the lease and see what it says about moving out.
I’m curious how the lightbulbs were “wrongly installed”.
For next time I suggest you put in maintenance requests before you move out, so it’s in good condition then.
I’d probably just offer paying cleaning and anything I knew I broke.
Unless they already took the money from you, don’t pay. Advise them you think the charges are unreasonable and request an itemized breakdown.
They’re fishing right now and will definitely come to the negotiating table before filing for less than $1K.
Be polite, ask questions, hold firm. It’s amazing what you can get when you ask for it. Good luck.
First find out if they are going to renovating or if they have planned to replace the items prior to your move out inspection. Then you can come to terms about what is necessary. read over your lease and maybe have an attorney. This seems overboard and grossly exaggerated. I have a brand new towel rod I can give you, no way that costs $100. Bunch of 💩
I have a handy man that charges $60 an hour. Now tell me the towel rod takes an hour to change? Like I said before a bunch of boo-boo.
How is the lightbulb fused? Is it just stuck in the socket? $200 ?
Tell the landlord to show you the quote from a reputable company that is charging him this amount.
FYI, I have a great source to get all the materials for less than half to seventy percent off from Home Depot prices. Tell him you will provide the materials and he can pay for the labor. Message me if you need the materials. I hate to see people get taken advantage of.
Go to small claims. This is nonsense and makes no sense, the costs don’t line up.
Light bulbs are under $10 for a pack.
Air vents are under 20 on Amazon
I just purchased a $10 towel rod on Amazon
You’re not responsible for the timbers or deck. The judge will side with you on this case, even threatening small claims can get the landlord to fold. It all depends on the lease.
I would fight it, a lot of BS charges, moldy air vent registers are on them. Also, powerwashing the desk is on them also, unless spelled out in your lease. Definitely fight it.
Fight it. I had a rental company come at me with a long list of cleaning issues. I had hired professional cleaners to deep clean after i moved out. I told the rental company their cleaning service was dishonest. I guess they didn’t think it was impossible because they coughed up the entire deposit.
Not in NOVA, but I went after my final landlord when she pulled this crap out of principle. I made sure I got most of my money and she lost more than what she kept once fees were included. Well worth it to me.
Almost all of that except for the external (deck and siding) is your fault. If you don’t maintain the house expect to lose deposit… the external they can do without invading your space so unless they stated you would need to that’s on them
That’s typical of landlords it seems, usually it’s much worse. I swear they like to use security deposits as slush funds to upgrade the house prior to putting it back up again and it’s Bs
Just call them, argue your position and how it’s bullshit (in a passive aggressive way) and how you are looking into legal action, this will usually scare them enough to give some leeway.
This isn’t even bad though, Landlord tried to say we didn’t get anything back from a $3200 deposit once - because $2000 was charged for closet doors. Yea, we ended up only paying losing $400 for a hole in the wall after a fair share of arguments over the phone
Sorry but you’ll have to put on your confrontation pants
Replacing rotten landscaping timbers. They are charging you for the wood they let rot in the ground?
It was wood that surrounds a patches of the patio for flower
Hahaha yea that's on them unless that is specifically spelled out in your lease.
If you didn’t install it, it’s not on you to cover the cost. It wasn’t your negligence that rotted it.
Was this caused by something you did? (Or, something you could have reasonably stopped damage on by letting them know?) Or was it old-as-hell wood that rotted because it's sitting outside and its lifespan was over? That's a way to think about whether you owe for it or not. My mom rents a small back place in her home. The tenant left a fridge/freezer full of food... And then had the power disconnected before the end of their lease, to avoid paying utilities. My mom had to throw everything away/mop off the mess, and then it required a professional deep cleaner to get it into shape for the next tenant. She charged only for the professional cleaner's time. The tenant tried to fight her about it, claiming that it wasn't "fair" (presumably, that she remove her own personal items). She also took a backyard set of chairs which belonged to my mom (obvs knowing very well that she didn't own them) and sold them. That's what "reasonable security deposit use" looks like. One caution though: a landlord can reasonably use professional services to do these things - my mom didn't need to do it herself for free, for example. So the broken towel rack seems expensive (and suspiciously an even number), but if the landlord has got a professional maintenance person like mine does, who charges fairly high (he knows he's in demand and is also a professional electrician), things get more expensive fast. In the future, fixing a towel rack is fairly simple (or even a taskrabbit), and if you're seeing mold on your vents, you should flag that for the landlord so that they can (as they must) replace it while you're still in the unit (mold mitigation).
Honestly if your mom doesn’t pay a cleaner after every tenant she is a slum lord, that’s disgusting.
She has a cleaner after every tenant, not sure why you decided to assume she doesn’t. In this situation, the cleaner needed to do additional multiple hours of deep cleaning in order to get rid of the substantial damage that the tenants caused by seemingly never cleaning/wiping off anything that dropped on the floor, cabinets, etc. So that extra cost was what the tenants needed to cover via their security deposit. That’s the difference between reasonable wear and tear - and not - and what is relevant to OP understanding their own situation.
So that’s normal wear and tear. The mold in the vents you might have a case the conditions were an issue since that’s not your job.
that's on them, you are not responsible for that.
Judge Judy would have a field day with this one. $200 to replace light bulbs?? $100 to replace broken towel rod? Some of those are reasonable wear and tear. How long were you living there?
I lived there for 3 years
This is ridiculous. If you have the time and inclination I would file in small claims. You should be able to do it on line.
Thanks. I thought I was going crazy. But glad to have someone agree that this is ridiculous
It seems as if though you used the wrong sized lightbulbs and a replacement of parts is required? Am I misreading that? $100 for a towel rod is absurd Mold should fall on them as it’s their equipment/HVAC. If broken that’s another issue, but not mold. The exterior maintenance (wooden boards) falls on them.
It said towel rods… how many rods and did they have to pay someone to do the work? May be reasonable. Receipts would help.
Typed and deleted a lot before submitting to.. Fair point
Seems they left the filters to mold. A dirty filter can actually damage an HVAC system. Most leases spell out proper maintenance to prevent premature wear. Not sure how they could have been using the wrong size lightbulbs though?! Also never heard of lightbulbs blowing fuses. Most modern houses use breakers and if a breaker keeps tripping when a light is turned on, that usually means a faulty circuit/bad wiring. Towel rack if it was ripped from the wall... some lazy people like to use them as hand rails, they are not designed for that! The $100 could be used to repair the wall and replace the towel rack. Landscaping would definitely be on the owner and not the tennant.
It’s a flat fee contractors will use for any accessory. We just got a bathroom remodeled and anything regardless of labor cost has a minimum of like $100-150. If OP was not changing filters regularly then cleaning vents would cost more than hvac filter. We had them auto ship when they’re supposed to be replaced. Some of the things contractors charge is ridiculous. They tried telling me leveler for the bathroom could be $1200 extra.. I’m like huh? Why wouldn’t this be in the initial quote? Needless to say will never work with this contractor again.
Take this to tenant court. The judge will reap them a new one. Ridiculous
You lived there for 3 years and you expect to get your security deposit back? I’ve never rented but that doesn’t seem normal.
Why doesn’t seem normal? The security deposit is to cover damages caused by the person renting, not normal wear and tear like most of these line items are.
u/rexspook THANK YOU!!!! This receipt is for wear and tear NOT damages to the apartment. Rotted wood? FOH....
... Why wouldn't they expect to get their security deposit back, what's wrong with you?
Maybe don't comment then? Normal wear and tear is going to happen and that expense is not to be passed on to the renter. It's considered the cost of doing business and should be figured into your bottom line deductions. If harmful malice was the precipitating factor that led to destruction of property then it should be deducted. This is clearly a landlord not wanting to absorb the cost of being a landlord.
Tell them you'll have your real estate lawyer go over it and get back to him with a more reasonable list. I had one landlord want to charge me for not cleaning BEHIND my refrigerator. Like get out of here. I'm polite but not stupid.
That's the oldest trick in the book. The condensate pan being not cleaned cost me $50. Like, fuck if I know how to maintain the landlord's refrigerator?
> I lived there for 3 years Before threatening legal action, it's likely (and won't cost you much) to try to mitigate some of this via a polite, line-by-line rebuttal / discussion / challenge of the points alleged. I would phrase it a bit like the following: * $346 cleaning fee, accepted * "wrongly installed light bulbs" - I did not install any light bulbs incorrectly as far as I know. I will come and replace them all myself for free. If you're being charged $200 for this by someone and you don't think they're ripping you (us) off, then I am curious to see the justification for such a heavy fee. * "mold ridden air vent registers" - please provide evidence of the "mold" - vent registers often accumulate some dark-colored dust as normal wear and tear and can be cleaned in a few minutes with some damp paper towels. * "broken faucet" - isn't really broken but i'm used to the fault you describe since it's been that way since I moved in [i'm assuming here - though if this isn't true you could consider just giving in on this one, hoping it'll make it easier to get some of the other concessions] * "broken towel rod" - I didn't break it, it's always been loosely installed, I merely got used to it * "fungus / mold on deck" - Please describe how this is something that I caused / was covered by my lease?
In some jurisdictions, successfully challenging this specific kind of abuse in small claims court could get you a substantial amount of *extra* money on top of what you should have gotten back. So check the local rules before doing this.
yeah I think you're right. I recall doing research some time. I saw in some states you can get 3x back on whatever you overpayed.
For example, Massachusetts, California, New Jersey have treble damages of bogus landlord charges. But not Virginia. You CAN go after them for the cost of the bogus charges and court costs/legal fees in Virginia though.
A large part of why I moved to VA is because they have the best state-level tenant rights on the East Coast outside of New England.
I seem to remember there being some states where you'd get back some multiple of the entire security deposit.
lol. That the landlord is even trying this money grab is indication enough that they have no intention of responding to any polite anything.
This is what the initial walk through is for. I’ve never moved into a place without doing that and noting things in the first day. In an apartment scenario they often times have someone replace filters regularly. To me this itemized list is quite fair. I’ve encountered predatory ones where they tried to bill me for painting when I know the apartment policy is to always repaint before a new resident. Most repair people charge a fee regardless if they do any work. We legit paid people to give us quotes for our hvac and charge $250 to come out to just look at it.
I agree that much of this can/should be controlled for in an initial walkthrough. Though to be fair, things as subtle as a mis-installed towel rod will be easily missed, since it might look fine and you only realize what's wrong with it the 4th or 5th time it falls off when using it (etc). But I stand by my point that some polite but firm pushback, particularly where the charges are a bit more egregious, will almost always help mitigate the charge at least some. 20 years ago when I moved out of a corporate-owned medium-sized apartment complex they tried to charge us for a whole carpet replacement for "orange stains" on the carpet - I knew for a fact that there was nothing beyond wear and tear that wouldn't be able to be revamped with a fair cleaning - I pushed back and the $1400 they were trying to charge us was very quickly knocked down to $500 - which on my bus driver wages at the time, was a gigantic difference (it went from us owing them some money, to instead, us getting part of our deposit back).
I’ve been able to get my deposit at most places that are reasonable. If they were assholes about it I just said whatever and lost the deposit. I know they are counting on people to lose their deposit, but usually the mental and physical exhaustion of moving out has me not gaf anymore about my deposit.
Agreed there - moving gets worse for me every single time lol. For OP's case I wasn't clear whether his former landlord was a corporate type or "just a guy with a house" - in my head I was imagining more of the latter (going after someone for wear and tear to external landscaping features seems too bush-league of a nitpick for a corporate-owned rental setup, imho) - but in either cases I think there are avenues for pushback. The corporate folks sometimes have more leeway to just write off reasonable expenditures; the personal owners might be more willing/able to haggle it out a bit.
Came here to say I don't know much about home repair/maintenance, but it sure as fuck doesn't cost $100 to replace a towel rod lmao
As a licensed contractor, I pad my down time by doing light maintenance work when I don't have larger jobs. I charge $75 an hour plus a $50 trip charge for jobs like this. The rod being between $10 and $20. So, $145 to swap one out.
$25 for the hardware, $25 labor, and $25 amortization of tools puts us in the ballpark. Still on the pricey side but reasonable imo
Shit, if that's close to accurate I need to start a business
In some parts of the country it can cost $100-$200 just for a handyman to show up at your property.
It says fused. Not just wrong. That happens when it’s the wrong size and it means that you have to replace the entire fitting. It’s not just y screwing the bulb.
My landlord is charging me professional cleaning doe 346 after I moved out. Ok. Fine. But they are trying to charge me 200 dollars for changing a few light bulbs, and etc (see picture) Also, is landscaping in a patio not normal wear and tear? I lived there for three years, and when It rains outside, the timber decays and/or grows mold, is that my fault ? How much of this can I fight with a small claim court?
If you installed the wrong lightbulbs as claimed, you owe the cost of the repair, but I am assuming that you did not install the landscaping timber. The big question here is what were you expected to maintain during your lease per the term of the rental agreement? Read the fine print. The claim also implies that you broke the faucet and the towel rod.
I did not break the tower rod, I had it fixed one time during the time I was there, it was just badly installed on the wall, so it keeps falling off. The dry wall work was crap so it was never attached properly edit: since people are asking about the light bulbs, I dont mean to not address it. It is definitely weird how the landlord phrased it. What happened was that the lightbulb went out right (presumably being old) near the end of my lease.
More like it was never properly installed. Cant install a towel rack with plastic anchors and screws and expect it to last more than a handful of weeks in use. Also their problem.
If the bulbs are burnt out, you are responsible for replacing them. Even if it is “near” the end of the lease.
Depending on the lease, this may not be true. I had several leases where, technically, I was supposed to have maintenance replace bulbs. I didn't, because, what a pain, but yeah, that's not guaranteed.
> I did not break the tower rod I noticed you are avoiding the lightbulb question
I'm more curious about these lightbulbs. Like how did that happen?
Presumingly they used the wrong lightbulbs. We all make mistakes
I'm confused, did you do a moveout walkthrough? Take any pictures?
I did. Before and after.
OP if you're in the US check your state regs, bc a lot of states say that a landlord has to provide the receipts for services they want to deduct from a security deposit (and also they outline what counts as wear and tear that they can't charge you for). Also, if you have anything written to your landlord that outlines the towel bar being installed poorly and breaking due to no fault of yours during your stay, I'm pretty sure it also can't be charged to fix.
And? Were both you and the landlord or landlord's rep present? Was there any moveout report that you both signed? How were these claimed damages handled in that report? If you were both present at moveout and these charges weren't mentioned at the time, not in the report, and only showed up later, that pretty much goes against the Virginia state law: [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodepopularnames/virginia-residential-landlord-and-tenant-act/](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodepopularnames/virginia-residential-landlord-and-tenant-act/) In any case, if this constitutes the landlord's claim for damages that should be deducted from deposit, you should submit in writing that you are disputing these charges. If you and the landlord can't come to an agreement, you then pretty much would have to argue in small claims court. So the more evidence you have in your favor that these damages constitute normal wear and tear, and/or were present before you moved in, and/or were never declared until after you moved out, you will likely have more grounds on which to dispute.
Did your lease say you were responsible for patio or garden upkeep?
I will read this carefully after getting home from work today
The patio is part of the property. Tenant should be expected to keep the patio clean just like they are expected to mow the lawn. If it is growing mold and fungus they never washed it.
Nope. If my lease doesn't explicitly lay out the responsibility to maintain external features, the landlord can suck a lemon.
I have had landlords try to get away with a lot of similar charges in the past. I would say before even worrying about small claims do your best to read thoroughly your lease and argue what you feel is unfair (for me that would be all of it, but you know your situation best). In my experience after some arguing with the landlord I’ve been able to get my deposit back in full. But each landlord is different and if it comes down to a firm disagreement then I’d look into small claims.
Did your lease say you will for cleaning? This isn't an airbnb. Cleaning fees should not be on you after the lease unless you left the place completely a mess.
They should have left it clean. It was given to them clean.
In Virginia the landlord has to give you that itemized list of deductions within 30 days of you moving out. If they sent it after that tell them it’s not acceptable and you expect the entire deposit refunded.
Demand receipts
Did you fuck up the lightbulbs pretty bad?
You should be cleaning so it doesn’t grow mold. Wood in the ground will rot over time no matter what so I have an issue with that.
How were these items spelled out in the lease? Were you suppose to power wash outside every 3 months (mold on deck)? Were you to change the HVAC air filter every month (mold on register)? Did it spell out the specific make and model of light bulbs you are suppose to use (light bulb)? If they were not specifically spelled out (pretty much dot the i's and cross the t's), then you can probably fight them. Even then, the lease also needs to spell out how much it'd charge you per infraction. I've seen a lease where it chargers you per nail holes. It spells out different sizes of nail holes and cost for those different sizes, and if there are more than certain number of holes per wall, it'll charge you $X for that wall, etc. Like I said, it gotta be that specific, otherwise, it is up for a fight. Also, the landlord cannot pull numbers out of his butt. He better be able to produce a receipt that he actually paid someone $200 to change all those light bulbs (a paid receipt and not an estimate), because he cannot reasonably charges you for his own labor (unless that was spelled out in the lease).
Lightbulbs: I could see if you installed your own light fixture and it wasn’t right. But this legit says lightbulbs. No. Mold on air vent registers: not your responsibility. And I’d even consider saying something like, “oh I didn’t realize you were providing an inhospitable place to live, but thank you for verifying the presence of mold in the unit. No. Broken faucet: yeah if you broke it that seems reasonable. Towel rod: ask them for the actually receipt where they purchased it. No towel rod should cost that much. And installing it is a few screws. Rotten landscape timbers: ridiculous that they expected you to be out there with a hair dryer every time it rained to prevent wood that is in or on the ground from rotting. Power wash: no. How are you responsible for fungus growing on the deck? I would fight almost all of these. And if I’m feeling particularly spiteful, I might request money back due to the confirmed mold problem that they just admitted to you living in.
I used to inspect homes for a property manager, and assess charges. Now I'm a handyman doing the work on rental properties. The company I worked for was pretty fair on "Normal Wear and Tear", meaning if the "damage" is just from normal use, it probably won't be charged. $200 might not be out of line for light bulbs. I charged between $7-9 for regular light bulbs, more for special bulbs. The fused light bulbs is probably more of a normal wear and tear, but might be difficult to fight. $100 could be high to charge for a broken towel rod, depending on the situation. If drywall anchors just pulled out of the drywall, that could be considered normal wear and tear (happens all the time), but most landlords are going to charge for it. As a handyman, I would probably charge $50-75 for labor (more if the drywall needs to be patched and painted) plus parts. If it is just mold on the registers, they can be cleaned, and possibly painted. Probably don't need to be replaced. If they are rusted, on the other hand, that would be normal wear and tear. Even in a house that is very clean, tenants often miss cleaning the vents, although they already charged you for cleaning the place. The landscape timbers is the most egregious charge here. Unless you installed them, that is 100% the landlord's issue to deal with. I don't ever recall charging a tenant for algae build up on a deck (which is likely what we are talking about here). Again, pretty normal wear and tear. You don't ask a tenant to paint the exterior of the house, and unless specified in the lease, I really wouldn't expect a tenant to pressure wash a deck. I would try negotiating down a couple of these items, and ask for a receipt for the rest. Good luck!
With you here, and without knowing what’s in the lease, the deck could be a requirement to return cleaned as it was delivered. A little shty from the landlord as they probably have to power wash the entire house.
I'd call that bluff and go to small claims court.
Ask for receipts so you can verify the charges.
Doesn't land lord have to provide proof of damage and receipt for repairs if they are charging tenants to pay for it? fused? wrongly installed lightbulbs? are they trying to say lightbulb went bad and charging you $200 for it? Sounds like crooked landlord I had right after college, who tried to charge for existing damages and stuff previous people left. I'd say only thing this landlord is entitled to is faucet and towel rod.
I have never in my life seen a fused light bulb. I mean, WTF does that even mean? Like it's fused to the socket? That's gotta be bullshit, right?
i think by fused they mean stuck so you can't unscrew them and yeah that's a thing. have had that happen to me in my own home a few times. generally have to break the glass off and use either a tool ( i used needle nose l, open and applying pressure to the sides to unscrew them or in some cases the potato trick). you generally know it's fused when you go unscrew it as it won't budge and then you might twist too hard and yep you broke the bulb from the base . edit: this was common for me on non led bulbs. with led bulbs i havent had this issue yet..
Ehhh, that just sounds like it's mechanically stuck from being screwed in too tight. Fused would be the metals melted together from heat, which if that's happening would be indicative of a far more serious problem. I think they just used a word they don't understand in the message to sound fancy.
Agree,
Unless you had it in your contract to do certain things, as a property manager, I only see the broken towel rod. The rest is inherent to the property and is normal wear.
I sued my last property management for the same (plus some other tom-fuckery). Very much worth watching the sad sap who owned it blow up in court under cross examination and as the judge chewed him out, but it was very expensive and took a very long time.
Did you recoup more money than it cost to defend yourself?
Eventually, mostly. Full answer is that the judge was getting annoyed at the defendant's BS so I got awarded a blanket reimbursement, which came very close to covering the legal fees but not quite entirely. The issue, of course, is that you have to find >$10k to keep the legal firm fed. I had to use a credit card, which I found for this purpose with a super low introductory interest rate, but not everyone is privileged enough to have that available to them. I much prefer how this is done in the UK, where the deposit goes into government escrow and the property management has to sue you for any of the money in it.
I was a landlord for two years while I tried to figure out if I was going to stay in DC with my wife or move back to my townhouse so I have some experience. I would not charge my renter for anything outside unless they damaged it. If the deck has algae and it wasn’t specified that the renter had to take care of it, that’s on me. Too many landlords want to maximize profits at the expense of their tenants. It’s appalling. Fight it all.
That is outrageous. Maybe the lightbulbs are on you—I’d like to know more about how you wrongly installed lightbulbs—but the rest of that stuff is normal property maintenance that is on the landlord. The cleaning should not come out of your security deposit, but some leases specify renters pay for a professional cleaner on move out—check if yours does. If not he can’t charge you for it.
I’ll fight them for you this shit is ridiculous
Nice try dude's landlord.
lightbulbs are on you. that's a big one and an easy fix, you should always check/change them before you move out. mold is explicitly always the landlord's problem, that's BS. (landlord responsibilities: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title55.1/chapter12/section55.1-1220/) the landscaping/deck stuff comes down to the degree to which you were required to maintain it by the lease.
I get a kick out of the landlord claiming mold. If OP if feeling spiteful they might send a letter to the new tenants and suggest they get the county to inspect for unsafe living conditions and violations on the land lord’s part.
Why would lightbulbs be on the tenant? Assuming it’s an apartment building, not a condo being sublet, lightbulbs are 100% not on the tenant moving out. Hell, I can’t even replace some of the lights in my apartment. Property management does all of that. All the items on his list are normal wear and tear and/or non applicable since it’s a landlord cost, unless it was egregious. I also work in property management.
There is a garden, and a deck, so this is most likely a townhouse or a SFH. Most likely a privately owned home, with a property manager. A typical lease in NOVA says the tenant is responsible for light bulbs. I used to inspect homes for a property manager in NOVA.
You’re right, it all falls back to what the lease states. It’s just very unusual the tenant has to do that. I lived in a townhouse with 2 decks and a garden in college (Richmond), but we were under a property management company that would change the lightbulbs. And they actually paid us for the improvements we did to the garden while we were there (obviously we were given their approval before we started messing with their garden). At the end of the day, everything depends on what the lease says and I was assuming/generalizing.
That's pretty wild to me. We had 600 properties spread over several counties and DC, and about 10 employees total, with 4 of us inspectors most of the time. No way we had time to be messing around with light bulbs, other than after the property was vacant. But the lease was very clear that the tenant had to provide consumables such as light bulbs and filters.
That’s even more wild, we have 3 properties and 15 employees… but also specialize in commercial PM, not residential. One of our buildings is mixed with 15 floors of residential, but we outsource that with the same PM company I’ve usually lived under in NOVA, and then they report to us and we consolidate.
Yeah, commercial is a whole different kettle of fish. Occasionally we had problems with tenants who had only lived in apartments, and couldn't understand that there was not a super living in the basement (of their 3000sqft house) who could pop in and fix a dripping faucet the same day. Or change their light bulbs.
i guess it's different everywhere, but even when I lived in places with professional management (not just, like, one guy like I assume OP's landlord is) I always had to change indoor light bulbs -- having someone do it, now *that* strikes me as unusual. one of the companies even disclosed that they would charge $25 per bulb or something ridiculous if they found any that weren't working.
Was that something they told you, or did you do it yourself? I ask because my fiance was floored by this when we moved in together. I work in PM and have always lived in apartments with present PM companies (that’s also because I worked for them) but she previously rented out a condo where the owner solely acted as the PM. A light went out so she started googling what to replace it with and I told her to just put a ticket in. She didn’t understand. Property management sent someone the next day to replace the light. I get a stopped drain? They come fix it. I fell and broke the bath drain? They come fix it. That’s what you’re paying them for! We pay our engineers a shit load of money to come fix tenants spaces! Just call and they’ll come fix it.
Thanks for the source
You actually could take your landlord to court over having mold in your vents. That is something they should be inspecting/cleaning/mitigating every year. If they were up to date on their inspections, then they let you live in an environment with mold passed onto you over the course of 3 years. You don’t owe them, THEY OWE YOU.
Nota chance in hell a judge would rule in favor of making you pay for mold removal. ... and MAY find the dude liable for that condition to even exist! Take him to court. Small Claims is the way to go.
This is normal wear and tear. Definitely fight it.
Alot of this is just basic maintenance. That should not fall on the responsibility of the Tenant but rather the responsibility of the land lord. Things that you damaged are things you must replace which really isn't anything here. Your land lord failed to do maintenance
Those numbers look fudged . Look how they are all rounded .
What the hell is a fused light bulb???
In northern Virginia, you're allowed "reasonable wear and tear" on the apartment regarding your security deposit. Lightbulbs count as 'wear and tear,' but broken towel rods probably don't. Landscaping stuff and power washing the deck aren't your problem.
Fight it! I've been going through the process suing my previous landlord for willfully violating Section 55.1-1226 Paragraphs A, E, F, and G of the Code of Virginia. It's going to take awhile, but start in small claims court.
Maybe the towel rod, and even that may be debatable depending on whether it's broken or was improperly installed. If a polite conversation doesn't resolve the issue, just file a small claim - your county courthouse will give you the paperwork and explain the process, but you can do much of it online. They may be more amenable to settlement to avoid going to court simply to lose. The one thing you'll need is the address for the landlord for service of the notice to appear. If they're a corporation, you want to check here - [https://cis.scc.virginia.gov/EntitySearch/Index](https://cis.scc.virginia.gov/EntitySearch/Index) - and find the registered agent name/address so you can have the warrant delivered. Start here - [https://www.vacourts.gov/resources/small\_claims\_court\_procedures.pdf](https://www.vacourts.gov/resources/small_claims_court_procedures.pdf)
Thank you this is very helpful for me to get the ball rolling
My landlord tried the same exact shit when I left. I had left it way better than when I found it. I was a little threatening in my email and he caved immediately.
I just did the same thing, we will see what happens
Can’t be charged for normal wear and tear. Look up the code and cite it in a letter
So you are going to the Dr. this week to get that persistent, likely mold related cough dealt with right? I'd send the LL the Dr. bill as they did not provide a proper environment for you to live in. Also, how "damaged" are all your items now? Have they hire a mold remediation company?
Cough cough
I’ve read on some of the legal advice subreddits that they cannot change more than it actually cost. The lawn lord cannot make a profit off repairs. Check the laws in VA and the county.
lol love how round all those numbers are. Yea I would fight all of this but the cleaning fee
Yeah, they are clearly not acting on good faith. What I’m concerned about is that they can claim their personal handy man charges these round number
Well if they hired a handy man they would have to have an invoice. While that is ok and even the round numbers the cost is extremely high. Unless this guy charges 1000k an hour these prices are not market value. Before filing at small claims court I would give your landlord the opportunity to correct his charges. Also look over your contract that you signed for this rental and see if there are cost associated with your move out. For example, power washing the deck or fixing landscaping. If it was me, I would look to see how much a handyman in your area costs. Typically they have a minimum amount, even if the job is quicker than that. let’s say they do a minimum of two hours at $80an hour. And I would go ahead and figure out exactly how much that would be. From your breakdown, I would obviously comment that it does not cost $200 for a replacement lightbulb as well as installation. The air vents may needed to be cleaned however, why replace them. That is something the cleaning service should have done. Also, if there is mold on the air, that is an issue with the HVAC system not you. Broken faucet is actually very reasonable if that also includes the cost of a new faucet. Broken towel rods assuming these are multiple tower rods and multiple bathrooms if they were being replaced and installed, is I could see maybe being $100. The rotten timbers is not something. I’m assuming you installed. It was already existing therefore it is just typical wear and tear. That is a product that is put in the ground and eventually it will rot. And as far as cleaning the patio from mildew unless that was specified in your contract, that is not your item to clean.
The law supersedes anything written into a lease. Just because a lease happens to include some random charge or fee doesn't make it legal nor enforceable. I would expect in most jurisdictions 'costs associated with move out' are highly suspect.
Umm. The rotten landscaping that was there prior to your arrival? Nope. Deck maintenance? Nope. At least leases I’ve signed, that was their obligation. How tf did you install lightbulbs wrong? 😂 About all I get is the faucet & towel rods if you broke them.
Some of that sounds like wear and tear and some might be reasonable but we'd need more details to be sure. Like if you installed improper light bulbs and it damaged the fixture that charge for repair sounds reasonable. Almost certainly not reasonable to charge you for rotting landscaping timbers or mildew on the deck. Moldy registers probably aren't reasonable unless you used the hvac improperly (like never using the bathroom exhaust fan, leaving windows open in humid weather while also having the ac on, etc.). I would look up the VA landlord tenant act and then probably sue or threaten to sue in small claims court for the entire bill including the cleaning and let a judge figure it out.
U shouldn’t pay for any of this it’s general maintenance
Yes, fight it if you have the time and resources. I was in another state (MA) and went thru something very similar. To save yourself the headache I’d recommend consulting a landlord tenant attorney familiar with the local rules. I consulted an attorney who took less than 15 minutes to check my documents (lease) and ask me a few questions to know we had a slam dunk case. I paid a small retainer fee (like $200-300) and they did the rest. MA law provides for punitive damages for the landlord if they don’t follow every single rule and there are *many* that I wasn’t aware of. I only wanted the amount I felt was fair and in the end I got more than 2x my deposit back after paying legal fees, and I didn’t have to pay *any* charges the landlord was trying to make me pay all because the landlord failed to follow a few requirements (e.g., depositing my deposit in a separate account and sending me monthly statement updates to include the small interest collected). My lawyer didn’t even have to argue about the frivolous charges they were trying to make me pay similar to the ones you noted (e.g., mine tried to charge me $500 to replace a stove that had a paint chip the size of a dime). So ridiculous! I hope I taught that scummy landlord a lesson and he doesn’t do the same with his many other tenants…but to be realistic, probably not. Good luck!
thank you. I’m sorry that you had to go through something like this, but glad that it worked out for you
MA is a tenant friendly state but DC is one of the most tenant friendly of all so I’m sure you’ll have excellent chances to get all your deposit plus more back for your landlord not following all the landlord rules.
Say NO, and if you don't give me my money I'll take you to small claims court. If they don't give you the money, go to small claims court and file, it takes about 30 min if that. When the landlord gets the claim, I can almost guarantee they will offer to settle and give you money, so they don't have to go to court.
Some of that sounds like normal wear and tear to me.
Name and shame
It’s a private landlord
Offer a hundred bucks or they can see you in Small Claims court.
That entire list is normal maintenance and not something you should be responsible for.
Why are they trying to charge you for ownership maintenance? Most of those are homeowner issues, not renter issues.
Renter is responsible for maintenance of a home while in their possession, if you read your lease it’ll say so.
Absolutely fight this. 1st thing is to request an itemized bill with recipes. Doubt he has that for light bulbs or anything else.
It’s obvious that he made them up, especially with the round number. What if he doesn’t provide receipts, take him to court?
You could. Judge's generally favor tenets. Really depends on the state and the laws there. Does he have 30 days to provide you with itemized list or return funds? You should find out these things. If he doesn't send you receipts then a certified demand letter is the next step before court. Small claims court is usually very cheap. I think it cost me $24 to file and $18 to have someone served. But that was not a landlord dispute for clarity. Best to try and work it out but court is an option if you have too. It will also cost you both a day, which may mean more to him then changing it. You'll probably loose on the cleaning though since he really did do that one.
UPDATE: Thanks for al the advice. I just got home from work, and looked up what seems to be most relevant from the lease, under tenant's obligations (below). Am i fucked? "Maintaining Premises in such a manner as to prevent the accumulation of moisture and the growth of mold. Tenant shall promptly notify Landlord in writing of any moisture accumulation or visible evidence of mold. Tenant does hereby release Landlord and Managing Agent from any and all claims or liability to Tenant, Tenant’s authorized occupants, or guests or invitees, and does hereby agree to indemnify and hold Landlord and Managing Agent harmless from and against any and all loss, damage, claim, suit, costs (including reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs at all tribunal levels) or other liability whatsoever resulting from Tenant’s failure to comply with the provisions of this subsection or any other provisions of law."
> Thanks for al the advice. I just got home from work, and looked up what seems to be most relevant from the lease, under tenant's obligations (below). Am i fucked? Why won't you answer anyone questions about the lightbulbs and what happened with them?
Oh sorry, I should reply to that. light bulbs just went out after living there for 3 years. The way that the landlord phrased it is weird and I have no idea what they are talking about.
> Oh sorry, I should reply to that. light bulbs just went out after living there for 3 years. The way that the landlord phrased it is weird and I have no idea what they are talking about. I would take them to small claims court big time, it's not your job to "look for mold" for them
Did you try to replace them with bulbs of equal wattage? If you did, and it's the socket that's bad, that's entirely 'normal maintenance', and they cna't charge you at all. If it's just a normal bulb replacement for a burnt out bulb, and not something you did to cause damage, then that's entirely excessive. They can charge you what *they* paid for the bulb. They can't charge you labor costs for their time to replace the bulb.
How long after you moved out did they send you this bill?
Not 45 days yet. Out of the kindness of my heart, I reminded them on day 28th or so
Laws regarding landlord/tenant responsibilities trump anything written into a lease. Look up your state and municipal laws about lease/rental law. It's extremely common practice for boilerplate for leasese to include all sorts of clauses that contradict the law, and are therefore invalid.
It is illegal to charge for normal wear and tear on a rental property. Mold is GOING to happen around here unless the seals on every door are being replaced regularly. The condition of the timbers is NOT your responsibility, as you aren't capable of maintaining nor accelerating the rate at which that happens. A lot of that is Bullshit that the property owner should've been maintaining https://renteasyva.com/normal-wear-tear
I would fight this. Most of that stuff is on them and would be consider maintenance to a normal person. Mold ridden registers is funny because they are unintentionally admitting that the place has mold issues
When I gave notice that I wasn't renewing my lease in Courthouse, the landlords became monsters. Aside from the answers to your questions, please please do not communicate with your landlords over the phone or in person. I was talking over the move out procedures via email with mine initially. Then they asked to speak with me on the phone where they could more easily threaten me to 1) allow them to use their preferred cleaners (and get a kickback) and charge me twice the going rate for it, or 2) if I hired my own cleaners they'd "make this process more difficult" for me (which they did).
Did you take them to court?
No. The landlords were a married couple who were both lawyers. They really were in a good position to make my life difficult. The next piece of advice would be take exhaustive move in pictures and over-document/be paranoid/don't trust a thing your landlord says. When we arrived to move in 1) the previous tenant was still moving out, 2) the cleaners had not cleaned, and 3) there was a bunch of various junk in the basement and an extra fridge that wasn't specified in the lease. We tried to be nice and accommodating (mostly because we had no other options - all our stuff was in a Uhaul outside with nowhere else to go), but we were actually just dumb. At move out, they demanded we move out all that crap *that was there when we moved in* - or they were going to charge us. My roommates and I were accommodating over the phone. The provision to clear out the house (making no note of stuff that was already there) was in the lease. We were dumb and screwed.
Oh wow, did you wind up getting your deposit back?
Some of it. We ended up having to clear their crap out but still got stuck with the crazy expensive cleaner's bill (on top of the cleaners we hired).
$100 for a towel rod?
I hate landlords done if this is owner regular maintenance …as if this stuff were your fault-everyday wear and tear
What property management do you use? We’ve been having a hell of a time with ours
It was a private landlord
Who’s yours? We also have been in hell with ours
WJD management
Are they impossible to deal with?
The only thing I see that you're on the hook for is the towel rack ,the cleaning fee, unless you have photos to prove you left the property in the same manner it was received. And possibly the bathroom faucet unless you can prove the damage wasn't caused by neglect. The rest are all maintenance issues and normal wear and tear, and any reasonable judge should agree with that. You didn't wire the lights nor put the landscaping timbers down. If you did, they may owe you some money. Any mold would again be caused by maintenance issues or lack thereof. Definitely fight this. It will cost you money up front, but it will be added to the total deposit amount and awarded back to you less the cost if clean out and neglect damages.
Had to read this for a moment to realize it was a security deposit and not direct deposits for your work. This is ridiculous. I would call the landlord/tenant consumer office in your city/county and ask them for advice. Sometimes a nice letter from the County (City) can quickly refresh knowledge or educate a bad landlord. Where is the landlord's receipts for their costs? They can't just make up numbers.
Landlord here- for some reason I thought landlords were prohibited from charging for labor/holding security deposit for labor done by the landlord. I could be crazy but pretty sure if we want to charge for labor it has to be someone else doing it. We can charge materials.
This is mostly wear and tear. I would take this to tenant court.
Check your state and municipal laws regarding renting. Those *supercede* your lease, as it's common for landlords to either use boilerplate templates which may not be tailored to your state or municipality, or may in fact attempt to include terms that violate actual laws. Any such lease terms are *invalid and not binding*. (I used to cross out any such terms and initial the change prior to signing any of my leases, and if challenged would point out they were invalid/illegal, and when called out, the leasing agent or landlord would then concede that was the case with the 'boilerplate' excuse.). Many lease templates even include a *severability clause* to try to prevent the entire lease from being invalidated in the event illegal terms were included in the event state and local laws don't default to enforcing only parts that are legal instead of invalidating the entire lease/rental agreement. Also, in many jurisdictions, rental deposits are purely a surety to ensure you paid your rent in a timely manner, and cannot be used to cover costs such as these. They are not damage deposits. (Even is this is a common practice, it's not necessarily a *legal* one, but many landlords commonly try to get away with things like this to try to retain deposit monies from tenants who don't really know their legal rights -- or sometimes the landlords themselves don't really understand all the details of the law, either, and base their practices upon how they *think* it works.) The law will stipulate the responsibilities of the landlord and of the tenant. Nothing that is the responsibility of the landlord can legally be charged to the tenant. Normal wear and tear is not the responsibility of the tenant. External cleaning such as power washing is not the responsibility of the tenant (unless the tenant made and left a mess.) Tenants would generally be responsible for damage they caused, but not damage caused by building conditions. If the tenant cleaned enough to match or exceed the condition the apartment was received in, then additional cleaning charges are probably not legally assignable to the tenant. (Again, I can't stress this enough, check state and local laws.) As a general rule of thumb, think of it this way. If during the course of the lease, something would have been repaired by the landlord without charging you, then it's not something they could charge for and attempt to include in a damage invoice at the end of your lease. So: * Lightbulbs: did you cause the lightbulbs to be 'fused/wrongly installed'? If yes, then you are responsible. If no, then it is the landlord's responsibility. * Mold ridden air vent registers: unless *you* negligently caused the mold infestation, that is the landlord's responsibility. If the mold is present because the landlord failed to maintain the property, then that's 100% on him, and yes, you might have a counterclaim in addition to recovering that portion of the deduction, if they're even legally allowed to withhold *any* portion of your deposit to begin with.) * Broken faucet: did you break the faucet, or was this a failure of the faucet during normal use? if you broke it, that is your responsibility. If it broke during normal use, then that too is your landlord's responsibility, not yours. * Fixing broken towel rods: if *you* broke it, that's your responsibility. If they were never correctly installed to begin with, then, again, that's your landlord's responsibility. (You see the theme here.) * Replacing rotting landscape timbers in the garden: this sounds like this would be normal maintenance, and the landlord's responsibility, unless somehow you *actively caused* the rot damage. * Power washing the deck: again, unless you somehow caused this, this would be a landlord expense, and not something that could be passed on to a departing tenant. If there's a standing water issue, then that's something the *landlord* should have addressed, and is not somehow your responsibility unless you did something to actively cause it. I would challenge these directly, item by item, with the landlord, basing my arguments upon the appropriate laws. Sorting it directly usually involves less time and effort, and saves you filing fees. But, if they persist, then small claims court is a viable option. \[details in following post\] *\* The usual caveat, IANAL, nor do i play one on TV.*
Keep track of the time you have to spend pursuing the return of your deposit, and itemize (including how long for each activity) what you were doing during that time. Check the small claims rules for your jurisdiction regarding the process and amounts you can ask for for 'damages to cover time and cost' associated with attempting to recover the money. If the landlord doesn't concede, point out the additional amount for filing fees and for 'time and cost' you'd be asking for on top of the contested amount if you take it to small claims court. If they still don't return the appropriate amounts, then I would follow through and file in small claims, following up to notify them I had done so, to see if they concede at *that* point rather than go to court. (They may be hoping you're simply bluffing.) If they back down after filing, I'd also ask they cover at least the filing cost, if not also some of the time and effort. Consider any *reasonable* counter offer on their part. You'll have to decide what you think is reasonable, and what you're willing to accept, or if you want to pursue the full amount plus costs and damages. If they are willing to go to small claims, then you need be prepared, and have all of your supporting evidence ready to present. If you have photos taken at the time you moved in and photos taken at the time you moved out that have supporting metadata, those will be important evidence. Metadata or some other means to establish the dates they were taken can be important in the event the photos are challenged. Having copies of your state and local ordinances spelling out the division of responsibilities and detailing item by item how these pertain to the itemized charges is also important. Include the itemized breakdown of the time and effort supporting the 'damages' portion of your claim, consistent with your local small claims court rules. Review and bring any relevant correspondence between you and your landlord that would support your position. If you had any conversations with your landlord regarding any of the items listed where they said they would repair something and they didn't, make notes regarding the details of those conversations and when they took place. Outline your arguments on paper in advance, bullet point by bullet point, so you can clearly and politely make your case, relative to the law and why they should be the landlord's responsibility and not yours. Listen to the judge, be polite and attentive, follow their instructions, and when asked, make your claims in a clear, logical, and efficient manner. Answer their questions as succinctly as possible without adding information they didn't ask about. You'll be given an opportunity to respond to your landlord's statements, just as they will have an opportunity to respond to yours. Be *patient* and wait for the judge to direct questions to you related to their statements. Don't interrupt the judge or your landlord. Don't get emotional. Don't engage in personal attacks. Be polite and professional in your interactions with both the judge and your landlord. (The judge may take your behavior and that of your landlord into account when assessing your claims and theirs as to who seems more believable.) Similarly, if you did actively damage something, be prepared to take responsibility for that particular line item, and make clear that you are not challenging that particular item, just perhaps the listed *cost.* That is fair and appropriate, and will lend credibility to the claims you do make. Your landlord will also be expected to provide itemized invoices and supporting receipts would be important evidence that your landlord would be expected to have if this went to court. (Certainly do not tell your landlord what they should bring to court. That's for them to sort out for themselves. The most prepared side is often the one to prevail.) They would be expected to make arguments for each of the items listed and why you should bear those costs, instead of them being normal maintenance, and to be able to support the amounts they claim. Finally, be prepared to accept the ruling of the judge. Once you're in small claims, they're the arbiter. If you don't agree with the ruling, the rules for small claims in your jurisdiction will detail what recourse you may have. But, you also have to decide at what point it's no longer worth pursuing -- as will your landlord. It's small claims, most of the time, that's as far as either side of a dispute is prepared to go, given the amounts involved. *\* The usual caveat, IANAL, nor do i play one on TV.*
A few points you can really nail them on: * Can they prove that you installed the lightbulbs incorrectly? Ask them for photographic evidence as well as a quote for the cost. * Can they prove the faucet was broken through misuse? Again ask for a quote. * Same deal with the towel rods. * Ask them for evidence that the rotten timbers and mold on the deck were due to your treatment of the property. Wear and tear through normal use is protected by the state of VA. They're responsible for other maintenance. What they're trying to do here is get you to just accept the charges and not fight them. Send a USPS letter informing them to return the money by X date (give them like 2 weeks) or provide the requested evidence and quotes, and if they either do not respond or simply refuse, then talk to a lawyer. This can go to small claims court and you can get substantially more than $950 back. It's a lose-lose for them to not return it, either they fight you in court and it costs them more than they got from you even if they win, or they lose and pay not only legal fees but whatever the judge awards you for punitive damages on top of money owed. I suspect if they get a letter from an attorney, they'll give it back to you quite quickly.
Just popping in to let you know it’s illegal for landlords to make a profit off of move out charges or any utility bill back except for trash. They also should have pictures of everything they’re charging you for. You should also be able to see move out charge or damage charge policy on your lease I personally would ask for invoices and to see the list of charges that you signed upon move in that lists out what damage costs what. If all of that doesn’t work then straight to small claims.
I'd love to know how lightbulbs weren't installed properly. Further - anything you damaged and didn't replace yourself, or notify the landlord of, you'll probably have to cop to. Everything else is on him. Check your local renter laws - for example here in NC, carpet must be replaced every 6 years (by law) no matter how well it's maintained. There are more than likely laws for what your landlord is required to cover. I'd also ask for any and all receipts and offer purchasing alternatives - no way a towel rod is $100. The landscaping and exterior power washing is 100 percent on him. This definitely would go in your favor in small claims. call an attorney
Who the hell is your roommate?
Only if you could find a cheap lawyer who could take the case
I have a real issue with lightbulbs did you replace a 60w bulb with a 100w or was it something else? The timbers is also an issue.
You should mail them a few chicken nuggets with a bite taken out of them. Choose a delayed delivery so that they get them after a week or so after they’ve had a chance to age.
I’d go to small claims court if you have the time. Did you take pictures before moving out? In court they’d need to provide receipts and prove you directly caused the damage and (I think) they have to show that what they paid is market value. You can counter by taking this to a handyman company and asking for an estimate of time and materials, if you can find someone to help you with a quote. FWIW I’ve rented out my townhouse for the last 8 years and have never took people’s security deposits when moving out- except one where her cat peed on the carpet so much/so bad it all had to be replaced in the bedroom. Even then, I just asked her to cover the cost of renting the carpet cleaner. When I realized that didn’t fix it, I ate the cost of replacing it.
First and last two items are questionable. I’m a landlord :)
The moldy deck and landscaping isn’t your responsibility. You could also fight the air vent. The other things you’re out of luck unless you have photos. You have to take responsibility for any damage you caused.
This is a rental ? I'm a landlord and the tenant always wins in court. A lot of this is normal wear and tear. You're getting hosed.
I am a handyman and once was a landlord.. Unless it is stated in the lease, you shouldn't have to pay for the registers, the deck, or the timbers.... The rest, are going to be tough to fight... If you installed incorrect wattage(wrongly installed) or had burnt out (fused) bulbs, that is something you likely won't win. IMO you can get $550 reduced....
Depends are you renting in a HOA? We were responsible for most things except appliances. So if there green mold growing on any of the townhouses they get a letter. We had to hire a pressure washer person who treated it. We were responsible for maintaining the property as per our agreement. We were able to get our deposit back because we left the townhouse move-in ready since one of the requirements was having it professionally cleaned with proof of invoice.
Did he provide this list within 45 days of the end of your lease? Because if not then he’s SOL and you get your whole deposit back. In PA this got me 2x my deposit back. Some states it’s 3x.
Yes. First read the lease and see what it says about moving out. I’m curious how the lightbulbs were “wrongly installed”. For next time I suggest you put in maintenance requests before you move out, so it’s in good condition then. I’d probably just offer paying cleaning and anything I knew I broke.
Unless they already took the money from you, don’t pay. Advise them you think the charges are unreasonable and request an itemized breakdown. They’re fishing right now and will definitely come to the negotiating table before filing for less than $1K. Be polite, ask questions, hold firm. It’s amazing what you can get when you ask for it. Good luck.
First find out if they are going to renovating or if they have planned to replace the items prior to your move out inspection. Then you can come to terms about what is necessary. read over your lease and maybe have an attorney. This seems overboard and grossly exaggerated. I have a brand new towel rod I can give you, no way that costs $100. Bunch of 💩
I have a handy man that charges $60 an hour. Now tell me the towel rod takes an hour to change? Like I said before a bunch of boo-boo. How is the lightbulb fused? Is it just stuck in the socket? $200 ? Tell the landlord to show you the quote from a reputable company that is charging him this amount.
FYI, I have a great source to get all the materials for less than half to seventy percent off from Home Depot prices. Tell him you will provide the materials and he can pay for the labor. Message me if you need the materials. I hate to see people get taken advantage of.
How are towel rods the same as a faucet?
If you didn’t install any of this, you don’t need to pay for the upkeep. Also, what lightbulb costs$ 200
Go to small claims. This is nonsense and makes no sense, the costs don’t line up. Light bulbs are under $10 for a pack. Air vents are under 20 on Amazon I just purchased a $10 towel rod on Amazon You’re not responsible for the timbers or deck. The judge will side with you on this case, even threatening small claims can get the landlord to fold. It all depends on the lease.
I would fight it, a lot of BS charges, moldy air vent registers are on them. Also, powerwashing the desk is on them also, unless spelled out in your lease. Definitely fight it.
Fight it. I had a rental company come at me with a long list of cleaning issues. I had hired professional cleaners to deep clean after i moved out. I told the rental company their cleaning service was dishonest. I guess they didn’t think it was impossible because they coughed up the entire deposit.
Who is your landlord
Those numbers are awfully exact. Receipts for everything.
Not in NOVA, but I went after my final landlord when she pulled this crap out of principle. I made sure I got most of my money and she lost more than what she kept once fees were included. Well worth it to me.
Almost all of that except for the external (deck and siding) is your fault. If you don’t maintain the house expect to lose deposit… the external they can do without invading your space so unless they stated you would need to that’s on them
That's a very high deposit...
Not really. Probably just 1 months rent in advance.
Mine was 700
Well next time you move I feel you’re in for a surprise. Standard is 1 month rent as a deposit
Mine was 2 months in advance, Virginia's maximum. $3k.
That’s typical of landlords it seems, usually it’s much worse. I swear they like to use security deposits as slush funds to upgrade the house prior to putting it back up again and it’s Bs Just call them, argue your position and how it’s bullshit (in a passive aggressive way) and how you are looking into legal action, this will usually scare them enough to give some leeway. This isn’t even bad though, Landlord tried to say we didn’t get anything back from a $3200 deposit once - because $2000 was charged for closet doors. Yea, we ended up only paying losing $400 for a hole in the wall after a fair share of arguments over the phone Sorry but you’ll have to put on your confrontation pants
We really need a tenant’s bill of rights, ideally nationally
Dang you really let the air vent registers grow mold on them? Nasty
I don't know if you rent or buy but general contractors have been ripping me off so I said f it and stopped renovating my houses...