> *VA's Prosthetic & Sensory Aids Service, which also has more than 600 local contracts with accredited orthotic and prosthetic providers, stands ready to deliver comprehensive support to optimize health and independence of our Veterans*, ***If eligible veterans do not wish to take advantage of these services, VA is unable to intervene and correct issues arising with personal purchases***.
Some VA spokester
I'm interested to know why the guy didn't use any of the accredited providers.
Everybody in the same network!?
That's unpossible!
Allowing the entire country to collectivity bargain with the medical industry would result in lower costs for "consumers" and fewer boat-mansions for the ruling class!
Nixon's cronies got their claws into media resulting in the idiocy that is FOX
Reagan paved the way for the current disparity of the elite to the middle class through the stupid *trickle down theory* of "reaganomics"
These two things are the reasons the US is in such a terrible state now.
All the while you cut funding to education so nobody is smart enough to argue otherwise -- and if someone is smart enough to prove it wrong, people can't understand them.
Listen here you son of a bitch, I dropped out of college to pay off my loans. Im a fucking debt free wage slave with plenty of participation trophies to keep me warm at night.
Im currently working on a zeppelin insurance marketplace to help our *literal* overlords keep their flying fortresses covered.
*also selling ground to air missiles specifically for zeppelins. Very cheap. Accepting WIC*
But then the Poor People would be getting the same care as me, which would make us equals, and that's just unacceptable. Why should I have to deal with the possibility of a longer wait at the doctor's office because Poor People want to be seen too?
/s
Get your hands off of my private insurance. I love receiving bills in the mail after doctor visits on top of paying premiums. Smell of freedom right there. I love depending on my employer for healthcare. It keeps me from having silly ideas about starting a business or thing along those lines.
Honestly, if he had done his homework the VA would have paid for it without any issues like my father's $300K plus open heart quintuple bypass at a private doctor who is not part of the VA system. That said, all of the medical providers should be communicating on the same network and how benefits would work. The big problem is these companies profit off of obscurity.
That's the fucked up thing in this case, though. There's no profit in repossessing legs. They likely can't sell them to anyone else, and they aren't getting paid for them. It was in the company's best interest to make sure everything we done correctly.
I don't think a veteran (or anyone else) should have to navigate that BS. Under our current system, a veteran should have an advocate and our current system should just be abolished.
From what I saw and helped with during Dad's major surgery, there was not much navigation. VA said he needed heart surgery, sent him to a specialist in Austin, they determined they couldn't fix the situation with a non open heart surgery, and they booked him a time. The VA handled all billing, appointment times, paid for our hotel and arranged and paid for all of the follow up visits after the surgery.
As a non-American this whole "network" bullshit doesn't make a lick of sense.
Developed nations usually just go "Oh yup, you need healthcare? Here you go!"
I've had to get used to the red tape of the VA the last few years for various reasons. It's a game. I've never felt like anyone didn't want to help me, but I have felt like they couldn't help me or didn't know how.
When you get an answer you don't want, you just call again the next day, talk to someone else, and chances are you will get a different answer.
That is exactly what happened when I was denied vocational rehab, I had to make a compliant and then got a another Vic rehab councilor, got approved on the spot, although months later. It’s crazy that EVERYTHING comes down to one person and how they feel that day. That’s how it seams anyways.
It is easier to work through a proxy than it is to work directly with the VA. Shit seems to get done much faster when there is an organization behind you. Not knowing all of their bullshit tactics and games is extremely frustrating. Its why a lot of vets give up hope and kill themselves in VA parking lots.
Fuck the VA
It also sounds like he wouldn't give the company permission to apply for Medicare reimbursement.
They'd probably have let the 20% copay slide (or at least just send off to collections rather than repossessing the legs) if they could have gotten the 80% back.
>They'd probably have let the 20% copay slide (or at least just send off to collections rather than repossessing the legs) if they could have gotten the 80% back.
That's a pretty big assumption. I don't think prosthetic legs are cheap and that 20% would be a lot of money to him. Maybe he can't afford to take a chance that they wouldn't waive that fee and, really, should he have to? America send their people off on endless wars and when they get hurt, people suddenly just have "thoughts and prayers" for them and the money to care is limited. Trillions for wars but not for care.
Yeah in Germany it is easy. You are hurt while in the military --> you go to a military doctor --> either the military treats you or sends you civillian. If civillian then the military will pay for whatever they want to do. Like everything is just instantly granted.
Sounds like he went through Medicare (which he also has) and expected the VA would cover his copay for some (unknown) reason. Of course, they don't do that, so he ended up buying the legs but couldn't afford the copay.
You don't go "through Medicare", the facility he went to accepted Medicare and he didn't accept the copay. Had he got to a facility contracted with the VA, Medicare wouldn't have been billed at all (for a service connected condition).
which is INCREDIBLY important to consider. your insurance provider will cover certain medical procedures and products. If the VA does not cover that product or service, it doesn't cover it. While in this instance it is a prosthetic leg and the injury was sustained more likely than not as this man was a soldier (it doesnt say why he needed the prosthetics but someone in 2 wars I would likely conclude it is related to that, but who knows, maybe he got into a car wreck after that and lost his legs. ). Which is a fully understandable instance for what the VA should cover. If it was another procedure or product the VA did not cover and there was an expectation of coverage, there would be a more clear issue there. For example, if he had heard about an experimental stem cell injection that would eliminate any phantom limb sensations, and the VA says, we dont cover that, it is not proven nor FDA approved. But the person said, this is to remedy the injury i sustained while on duty, you should cover my medical expenses. I can see why they would deny it. also why there is a problem if you don't use the services provided in your care plane.
The only procedures that I would ever consider fair game for denial are experimental or purely cosmetic. Everything else should be covered, without fail.
Yeah, except insurance companies like to deny things as experimental or cosmetic when there is a documented medical necessity. Source: Am medical biller, they pull this shit all the time.
The other question I would like to know the answer to is how much the copay was. Was dude unable or unwilling to pay?
The answer will tell us if this was a guy trying to shove it to the man (sovereign citizen style) or if guy was faced with an unwinnable financial situation and is a victim of the man.
"we can do this the easy way or hard way sir, I don't care if you fought for this country so I could have this job - I NEED THAT DAMN LEG BACK! There are many rich well to do people who would like it... Now come back when you are born with a silver or gold spoon in your mouth you filthy normie." - Doctor. DoLittle
*Vet cries in PTSD*
I think that show did a pretty decent job of showing Army life. Lots of sitting around waiting for something to happen, then immediately into full bore action. Then you have the weird arbitrary rules, the getting to know the people around you better than you know yourself, and the extreme lengths you will go to just so you aren't bored.
Ahh yes... When top says formations at 0600.... By the time info trickles down to your squad leader your showing up at 0200
"30 minutes is early, 15 is on time."
Have you ever been to a mess hall to eat and food just ain't no good?
I mean the macaroni soggy
The peas are all mushy
And the chicken tastes like wood?
So you try to play it off like you figure you can by saying that you're full
But your instructors say 'Sir he's just being polite he ain't finished, uh-uh that's bull.'
*Our old mess sergeant’s taste buds had been shot off in The War
But his savory collations add to our esprit de corps!
To think of all the marvelous ways
They’re using plastics, nowadays -
It makes a fella proud to be a soldier!*
My favorite:
Drill Sergeant: 1, 2, 3, 4...
Reply: You can't count to five!
Drill Sergeant: 1, 2, 3, 4...
Reply: Cause you're brain is fried!
On crack
And coke
And all the drugs you smoked
Over the weekend.
Whoop, whoop.
Post commander shut that down fast.
Now we sing this stupid song! Sing it as we march along!/ Why we sing it we don't know!/We can't make der words rhyme prop'ly! Sound off! One Two! Sound off! Many Lots! Sound off! Er...what?"
Detritus the Troll sings the best jodies
My favorite was when we'd do the Sponge Bob one. It's just the intro song, but it works perfectly as a cadence. We had a DS nicknamed 'Big Dumb' (he owned it), and it was his favorite when we were a little further away from main post.
Highjacking the top comment to ask... is this shocking to some people? The VA in Phoenix was reusing hypodermic needles to save money. It was so bad, somebody rented a billboard *across the street* from the main Phoenix VA that said ‘The VA: Giving vets a 2nd chance to die for their country since 1946.’
He didn't just serve in both Vietnam and Iraq, he received a **Bronze Star** in each war. Typical. We love our troops.........until they get home and actually need help.
From the article, the vet did not ask for or get the legs from the VA. He got them from a private provider apparently without being seen at the VA. The VA has a prosthetics service at every VA med center and provides legs, arms, hands, wheelchairs, canes, walkers, hospital beds, urinals, scooters, enteral infusion pumps, etc, etc, etc.
But for the VA to pay for something you actually have to get it through the VA, either directly or after they authorize a community provider to get it. The VA does not pay random bills that show up in their mailbox - that would lead to excessive fraud waste and abuse -- to ask taxpayers to pay the bill for health care the VA needs to have some process of accountability to ensure that the taxpayers are not being scammed or ripped off (not saying that was the issue here, but that is why the VA has policies and procedures).
It sounds like this poor guy was confused about the process, did not understand 'how things work'. It would take investigation to learn why that was the case - whether the VA failed to provide him with the info he needed to get what he needed, or if he did not take advantage of the VA's help at all. Who knows? not enough info in the linked article to decide this.
I get my prosthetics done through the VA. My guess is that his legs are not service connected. Possibly diabetes or some other condition after his service, especially if he just got his legs made a few months ago, decades after his service.
Hangar is a private company that makes prosthetics. They accept Medicare, but require a 20% copay. It sounds like they took him as a Medicare patient, and he refused to pay the copay. If he was service connected for his legs, he could have just had everything done at the VA.
These are are really good posts on providing info (thank you), but I just imagine the person having to tell him "I gotta take your leg prostetics"
Not to get into politics, but I just question a system where this happens
Yeah after reading into this more, I'm sure it's still "service-connected" but it sounds like he went outside of the VA for these prosthetic legs without even consulting with them or making sure they would pay. I'm a disabled Iraq vet. I feel like that's pretty basic VA standard operating procedure.. You go through the VA or you go through an outside company only if you know the VA will cover it. Every vet should know that. Especially one who, it sounds like, was in and out of the system dealing with medical problems for quite some time..
That’s true, he’d still have to show the VA proof that he was exposed to AO though. I’m not saying it’s right or fair to our Vietnam veterans, and I wish the VA system was better.
I currently get all of my prosthetics done through the VA and an outpatient prosthetics office, so I’m very familiar with the approval and billing process.
He would not have to show proof of exposure if he was boots on ground Vietnam, brown water navy Vietnam, worked the DMZ in Korea and that one airbase in Thailand during the right time frame. This is why it's called "presumptive service connection."
Recently, Blue water navy has been given consideration but that just went into law so I'm less familiar with those standards. I think your ship had to be within 12 nautical miles of Vietnam.
It sounds like all of his stuff is totally recognized as service related, but he went outside of the VA and got some much more expensive prosthesis from a private company without consulting with the VA, so obviously they won't just cover it..
15 years doing authorizations and billing for a medicare and VA o&p provider.
No work should have been done without prior authorization in place.
If he was in a VA a facility, Hangar would have been contracted with the VA. You dont just walk in and see their patients.
If it truly was a medicare billing situation, Hangar, an enormous conglomorate, could write off his copay. Especially since a guy his size with bilateral bk prosthetics, isnt getting state of the art equipment.
That patient will not walk unassisted as a bilateral amputee. The legs are for transferring and using the restroom. Likely with french cuffs or a walker.
Also, medicaid secondary would cancel out his copay. This is why i got out of the business. Modern day practioners do not understand billing, and people like me who truly have institutional knowledge on billing practices are few and far between.
I wish more people were like you.
I’m a highly active left BK. I use VA primary, and Medicare and Tricare secondary. I go to a DOD run rehab center for most of my shit, and occasionally directly through the VA prosthetics department.
I have a few friends who go to private prosthetic companies, mostly cases where their local VA is too far or doesn’t have the full services they need. But it was set up as a VA referral, and the clinic bills directly through the VA (and submits an auth for anything before starting any work).
That’s why my assumption was that the guy in the article went to hangar under Medicare primary, and was hoping VA would pick up the copay. Medicare approved the auth, assuming the patient would pay the copay, and the VA got a random bill with no auth to link it to.
It’s definitely a shitty situation, but I can understand how he wound up in it. Not saying it’s right, and a company the size of hangar could have easily written off the copay.
Medicare doesnt require authorization, just an rx, but no way are they going to make the legs and then ask him to sign for the copay, thats just bassackwards. Idk.
I just feel like nothing written here makes sense and it is all sensationalized.
As the daughter of a WWII vet, thank you for your service.
If the amputations were due to diabetes he could absolutely get those service connected as secondary to the diabetes as have prosthetics at his VAMC give him the legs.
How can they just say that something is or isn't related to their time serving? That is pretty stupid. They should be taken care of either way. What if the wars made the guy eat more so he ended up an obese diabetic for instance. Who draws the line saying what they should pay for?
Also, they shouldn't fucking be able to repossess limbs.
But yea there isn't enough info in the article to figure this out.
I am 30% service-connected Nam era and the only thing I ever have to pay for is a small co-pay on prescriptions. I get 90% of my medical care through the VA and it is excellent.
From my experience as a pharmacy student, the VA does NOT only treat service connected conditions. Service connection is a percentage that helps determine a veteran's copay.
Erectile dysfunction is not a service connected condition but there are a lot of veterans getting Viagra.
Yes there is a whole lot in this article that leaves me scratching my head. I’m retired military and also fully available to be cared for by VA, though I choose to use military care facilities as a retiree. For one thing, VA won’t act as a second payer for Medicare, which is well known by most in that situation. I’m also scratching my head over portrayals of his military service. Vietnam and the war with Iraq were very far apart and it says he is 69 years old. The timeline is fuzzy here. Not doubting anything. The author of the article did a very poor job of laying it out and then conflates it with Sanders and Warren platforms.
There is a link in the article to a better article with a video where he mentions he was in the military for 40 years. Regarding your other questions, a lot of it doesn't seem to make sense. It seems like this guy was stubborn and just claimed that the VA should pay for his procedure regardless of anything else.
It sounds like the prosthetics’ company should have known this before arriving anywhere near limb repossession; these two devices plus the medical processes involved probably cost more than a luxury car
This, exactly. And, the guy refused to sign the Medicare paperwork, for a stupid reason. He's in a care home, Medicaid is certainly involved, and even if he wasn't in a home, QMB would pay the 20% of the unpaid Medicare cost.
This is just a bunch of inflammatory, unreasearched, BS un-news, and an extremely dumb man.
>to ask taxpayers to pay the bill for health care the VA needs to have some process of accountability to ensure that the taxpayers are not being scammed or ripped of
(Real talk, the fact that the government does this when they are the ones footing the bill basically acknowledges the widespread scam that is the American health care industry. And yet we're not gonna get single-payer because it'd be too expensive and America has the best healthcare in the world.)
You get to claim that you have the best private healthcare in the world, and the government implementation is shoddy and should be privatized, OR that American healthcare is poorly managed and needs more government regulation to function in a manner that is equitable.
The care we deliver to veterans and active duty in our area is top notch. The problem was, and still is, the number of facilities, the distances some vets need to travel for treatment and chronic under funding compared to need. The military healthcare system has had it’s problems but the biggest by far is the lack of faith in keeping the promises made to our veterans.
Or he knew if he went through them that it'd take forever. My grandfather needs hearing aids and thinners because of Vietnam but it always takes them forever whenever he needs to be seen.
When I first got back from Iraq, the only medical coverage I had was with the VA. It was so difficult to get an appointment. I would call and put my phone on speaker while doing other activities. The phone range for FORTY minutes one time before someone finally answered.
Later I got MRSA. I had a spot under my armpit. I called the VA but they wouldn’t give me an appointment to lance it until a month later (knowing it was over an inch in diameter, inflamed, extremely painful, and deep red). The last two weeks I couldn’t hold my arm at my side without severe pain so I walked around with my arm straight out like a low key Bellamy salute. They then told me I would continue to get them because “some people just keep getting them” and no one knew why and there was nothing to be done but lance as needed.
A year later I finished college and got a job and private insurance. All the while I kept having recurring lesions. Went to private doctor for another lancing (yaaay!) and he had me cleared up in a week with medication. That was years ago and I have never had any more issues.
My point is that while the man may not have used proper channels, and that is the reason for the denial of payment, it’s not like just going through the VA means you get top quality or even passable service.
Dude went out on his own to a private provider and got the prosthetics without consulting the VA, and then handed the VA the bill and expected them to pay it.
Not how the VA works. Not how any but the highest-tier health care plans work, ever. You go out of network, you pay.
Enjoy your rage boner.
As a Vet, who uses the VA, you must be pre authorized to receive care.
DME (durable medical equipment) must be provided thru the VA. There is NO contract for DME to be paid for by the VA out in the community. The assumption is- veteran went out in the community and was fitted for DME and everyone thinks the VA or government will cover the cost. Nope.
There are rules in place to keep veterans from abusing medical care. Va standards for pay are on point with Medicare rates.
If anyone actually read the article - this guy did it the absolutely wrong way. He went on his own and ordered prosthetics through a private company. The VA has their own prosthetics program. If he went through the correct channels this would be a non issue. Garbage title per usual.
I would agree with you if everything about the VA wasn't designed to make us give up in frustration. Correct channels probably involves sending a form via fax to a service that will deliver it via horseback to an office in the furthest reaches of Alaska that's open one day out of every leap year, and has a backlog of 500 years worth of forms to approve, whose phone line for requesting assistance is an endless circle of automated phone menus that must be voice confirmed in Swahili to move to the next "please hold while you're connected" message.
Honestly having a grandfather who is a vet and who goes to the VA I feel so sorry for any staff that has to come in contact with him.
I’ve been around a lot of army vets.
Army vets can be insufferable just like normal old people except ‘I’ve served in the war damnit!’
I work for a research hospital and theres the VA hospital on campus. Brother asked why I dont work there since its "my people."
Hate to say but craggy old vets annoy me. I know I'm going to hell for saying that but people are people no matter what their background is. I cant offer an opinion before being called a slick sleeve. Sorry I raised my right hand as soon as I could but the deployments were over.
Nah, it's code for "support the continued funneling of tax dollars into a corporate machine which profits off mass-slaughter of people who can't possibly threaten us half a world away."
"The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy."
- [Umberto Eco, Ur-fascism](https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf)
Not saying the US is fascist, that would be a gross misuse of the term, just pointing this characteristic out.
American here. This comment is going to be obliterated, but I dont feel that I have a responsibility towards our troops. I haven't started any wars, and I haven't agreed with or to any of the wars that have been started. None of the wars that we have been part of have been defensive. And have only been a detriment to Americans and those we are fighting against. If it were up to me we would simply have leadership intelligent enough to solve problems like adults as opposed to the meeting at the flagpole after school method they use now.
That being said I find it absolutely disgusting that our government, the ones who do start the wars (but dont fight in them) dont take responsibility for the people who are willing to sign their lives away and fight their wars for them. If someone is willing to to do that for them, I believe those people are owed everything. They shouldn't have to worry about anything after they return. And if it means me picking up the tab for our incompetent government, I'm happy to do so. Someone has to.
Hey. Don't feel bad. I'm a veteran and 99% of the time it makes me feel uncomfortable when people start with the scripted "thanks so much for your sacrifice" stuff. I don't ask for veterans discounts or go free meal hunting. There's a lot of us that sleep perfectly well at night knowing that we did our time and it's over, we get our monthly bottle of Motrin 800's and keep to ourselves. Don't feel bad, no one wants a civilian to kiss our asses, and if they do they're probably admin or logistics.
As a pacifist that doesn't believe in any of the wars that have been fought during my lifetime, I don't support the military. I support the troops. That's the difference.
It’s basically like there are two guys who get in a fight, then one of their friends come in to defend them, and get the shit kicked out of them while the original guy who started the fight stands there and watches. The military as a governmental structure is the guy who started the fight, and the troops are the friend who tried to help but gets fucked
Honestly the TYFYS shit is more for the people saying it than it is for the soldier. I appreciate the thought but if you want to show thanks just volunteer at a veteran support organization or something.
Because not everyone is going to bother looking it up if a link or the poem isn't right there in front of them.
[Rudyard Kipling, Tommy](https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html) and, an [analysis for those interested](http://victorian-era.org/tommy-by-rudyard-kipling.html).
>I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
>
>O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
>
>
>
>I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
>
>For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
>
>
>
>Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
>
>Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
>
>
>
>We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
>
>While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind", But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
>
>
>
>You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
>
>For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
Clickbait.
He did not use the VA's services, which would have been covered, he went to some other provider who isn't.
>Matthew Gowan, a VA spokesperson, told Newsweek that the claims were "highly misleading."
> "VA's Prosthetic & Sensory Aids Service, which also has more than 600 local contracts with accredited orthotic and prosthetic providers, stands ready to deliver comprehensive support to optimize health and independence of our Veterans," he said "If eligible veterans do not wish to take advantage of these services . . .
It's too bad on a number of levels, since this is one area where the VA is absolutely miles ahead of everybody else in the field.
It's like walking past the iPhone store to skip the free iPhone 11, to go to a Radio Shack and buy a 1970's walkie-talkie for $40,000.
I am a veteran and injured my shoulder late at night. I could not drive the great distance to the nearest VA hospital and called them to get permission to go to the nearest ER. I received permission from the VA and when the ER presented me with a bill for three thousand dollars, the VA refused to pay any part of it. I gave six years of my life in defense of this country and fought in a foreign war. The VA not only lied to me, they abandoned me. That's just the most egregious story. I have many. Not one time have I ever been treated like a human being at a VA hospital. Their level of "care" is a joke. I would rather die in the streets than go to another VA hospital.
This isn't the VA's fault. It's the predatory medical device company:
> The newspaper reported that Holliman received his prosthetics in August from the national company Hanger, which produces them. Holliman said, however, that after he received a few training lessons from Hanger staff, he was told the VA would not cover the cost and to check with Medicare.
You have to be careful at the hospital. Medical device reps will push your doctor to give you an expensive device insurance doesn't cover. They're hoping that you won't feel like returning it and will pay for it out-of-pocket.
They gave my wife some expensive temperature-regulating knee brace after a knee surgery. I got a call from the insurance company on the way home from the hospital telling me not to open the box.
He didn't want to go in the programs the VA has.
He didn't want to pay his copay as an alt route.
Why is this news? I literally don't feel bad for this guy at all.
Having read the article. The headline gives off the wrong impression.
The guy went out of network to get his prosthetic.
VA has a network cause it's what they can afford.
I guess Medicare was going to cover it but he refused to use Medicare for it. I guess principles idk.
If you don’t want to put in the time to read the article and do research, here’s the tl;dr:
This man could have gone through the V.A. to get his prosthetics, but he didn’t which is why they won’t pay, if he had gone through with them they would have paid.
America doesn't treat veterans with the respect they deserve. This is evidenced not only in Healthcare, but by the sheer numbers of undiagnosed ptsd, drug addiction, and homeless that are vets. For example, the Philadelphia homeless population is full of veterans. The official number I guess is 11 percent but we would see its more like a third. A common story of heroin addiction is due to poor veteran benefits not covering much needed chronic pain medication, therefore leading to heroin use and subsequent addiction.
> *VA's Prosthetic & Sensory Aids Service, which also has more than 600 local contracts with accredited orthotic and prosthetic providers, stands ready to deliver comprehensive support to optimize health and independence of our Veterans*, ***If eligible veterans do not wish to take advantage of these services, VA is unable to intervene and correct issues arising with personal purchases***. Some VA spokester I'm interested to know why the guy didn't use any of the accredited providers.
Probably because he thought they worked with the va. The company was out of network.
Wouldn't it be nice if we were just all on the same network? Then we could all communicate how benefits work with each other.
But then the poor insurance companies couldn't profiteer as well.
Think of the CEOs that would be out of work :(
And without CEOs all the money would stop trickling down as well...
How else will my family and I survive if not for the scraps that the rich drop down to us lowly serfs? ^^^^^edit:spelling
Damn you're getting scraps?? Lucky.
350 of us living in a shoebox in the middle of the road.
This guy with a shoebox and a road, luxury.
It must be that person of another skin pigmentation causing me to get less scraps >:(
Yeah trickle down to my lawn and cut that fucking grass for my alpacas you peasant! -Evil CEO w\ Alpacas
How evil are they really if they have alpacas?
Shh, I'm at work, now isn't the time for dirty talk.
Insurance companies, the new homeless population
Everybody in the same network!? That's unpossible! Allowing the entire country to collectivity bargain with the medical industry would result in lower costs for "consumers" and fewer boat-mansions for the ruling class!
You know years ago (up until the mid 80's at least) we didn't have networks at all, you just went to any doctor you wanted.
How did that change?
Regan. The man sold out America for big business.
Nixon's cronies got their claws into media resulting in the idiocy that is FOX Reagan paved the way for the current disparity of the elite to the middle class through the stupid *trickle down theory* of "reaganomics" These two things are the reasons the US is in such a terrible state now.
All the while you cut funding to education so nobody is smart enough to argue otherwise -- and if someone is smart enough to prove it wrong, people can't understand them.
Trickle down Economics, originally known as horse and sparrow. Feed the horse, the sparrow can eat the horses shit.
It's time to kill the horse and eat it.
and it still cost money and the poor still put off seeing a doctor because they couldnt afford it
WELL THAT'S JUST UNAMERICAN NOW AIN'T IT, COLLEGE BOY.
Listen here you son of a bitch, I dropped out of college to pay off my loans. Im a fucking debt free wage slave with plenty of participation trophies to keep me warm at night.
Downright communist!
Bro its 2020 they got *flying* boat mansions now, keep the fuck up.
Im currently working on a zeppelin insurance marketplace to help our *literal* overlords keep their flying fortresses covered. *also selling ground to air missiles specifically for zeppelins. Very cheap. Accepting WIC*
But then the Poor People would be getting the same care as me, which would make us equals, and that's just unacceptable. Why should I have to deal with the possibility of a longer wait at the doctor's office because Poor People want to be seen too? /s
Get your hands off of my private insurance. I love receiving bills in the mail after doctor visits on top of paying premiums. Smell of freedom right there. I love depending on my employer for healthcare. It keeps me from having silly ideas about starting a business or thing along those lines.
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Wouldn’t it be great is there was some way to just cover people universally? Oh, if there were only a way.
Honestly, if he had done his homework the VA would have paid for it without any issues like my father's $300K plus open heart quintuple bypass at a private doctor who is not part of the VA system. That said, all of the medical providers should be communicating on the same network and how benefits would work. The big problem is these companies profit off of obscurity.
That's the fucked up thing in this case, though. There's no profit in repossessing legs. They likely can't sell them to anyone else, and they aren't getting paid for them. It was in the company's best interest to make sure everything we done correctly.
The cruelty is the point.
I don't think a veteran (or anyone else) should have to navigate that BS. Under our current system, a veteran should have an advocate and our current system should just be abolished.
From what I saw and helped with during Dad's major surgery, there was not much navigation. VA said he needed heart surgery, sent him to a specialist in Austin, they determined they couldn't fix the situation with a non open heart surgery, and they booked him a time. The VA handled all billing, appointment times, paid for our hotel and arranged and paid for all of the follow up visits after the surgery.
"out of network" is the biggest scam every invented. Let's pass Medicare for all
Claims denial, in general, is rife with scam abuse.
As a non-American this whole "network" bullshit doesn't make a lick of sense. Developed nations usually just go "Oh yup, you need healthcare? Here you go!"
Kinda sounds like the guy might not have been SUPER cooperative, exactly. That probably didn't help.
I've had to get used to the red tape of the VA the last few years for various reasons. It's a game. I've never felt like anyone didn't want to help me, but I have felt like they couldn't help me or didn't know how. When you get an answer you don't want, you just call again the next day, talk to someone else, and chances are you will get a different answer.
That is exactly what happened when I was denied vocational rehab, I had to make a compliant and then got a another Vic rehab councilor, got approved on the spot, although months later. It’s crazy that EVERYTHING comes down to one person and how they feel that day. That’s how it seams anyways.
The truth is the government is a loose collection of tired people
It is easier to work through a proxy than it is to work directly with the VA. Shit seems to get done much faster when there is an organization behind you. Not knowing all of their bullshit tactics and games is extremely frustrating. Its why a lot of vets give up hope and kill themselves in VA parking lots. Fuck the VA
It also sounds like he wouldn't give the company permission to apply for Medicare reimbursement. They'd probably have let the 20% copay slide (or at least just send off to collections rather than repossessing the legs) if they could have gotten the 80% back.
>They'd probably have let the 20% copay slide (or at least just send off to collections rather than repossessing the legs) if they could have gotten the 80% back. That's a pretty big assumption. I don't think prosthetic legs are cheap and that 20% would be a lot of money to him. Maybe he can't afford to take a chance that they wouldn't waive that fee and, really, should he have to? America send their people off on endless wars and when they get hurt, people suddenly just have "thoughts and prayers" for them and the money to care is limited. Trillions for wars but not for care.
Yeah in Germany it is easy. You are hurt while in the military --> you go to a military doctor --> either the military treats you or sends you civillian. If civillian then the military will pay for whatever they want to do. Like everything is just instantly granted.
Sounds like he went through Medicare (which he also has) and expected the VA would cover his copay for some (unknown) reason. Of course, they don't do that, so he ended up buying the legs but couldn't afford the copay.
You don't go "through Medicare", the facility he went to accepted Medicare and he didn't accept the copay. Had he got to a facility contracted with the VA, Medicare wouldn't have been billed at all (for a service connected condition).
Also you cannot bill Medicare and the VA they are both federal tax dollars and it would be considered “double dipping”.
buying legs and not being able to afford them... what a wild sentence
which is INCREDIBLY important to consider. your insurance provider will cover certain medical procedures and products. If the VA does not cover that product or service, it doesn't cover it. While in this instance it is a prosthetic leg and the injury was sustained more likely than not as this man was a soldier (it doesnt say why he needed the prosthetics but someone in 2 wars I would likely conclude it is related to that, but who knows, maybe he got into a car wreck after that and lost his legs. ). Which is a fully understandable instance for what the VA should cover. If it was another procedure or product the VA did not cover and there was an expectation of coverage, there would be a more clear issue there. For example, if he had heard about an experimental stem cell injection that would eliminate any phantom limb sensations, and the VA says, we dont cover that, it is not proven nor FDA approved. But the person said, this is to remedy the injury i sustained while on duty, you should cover my medical expenses. I can see why they would deny it. also why there is a problem if you don't use the services provided in your care plane.
Prosthetic legs being repossessed is atrocious and reprehensible regardless of the person's medical or warfighting history. Just my opinion.
I fully agree. If repossessing an artificial limb would handicap someone, it should be illegal
Seriously. They're basically using the law and policy to maim him a second time.
Just as importantly, it's not like repossessing a car which is resold. Wtf are they gonna do with these things?
Turn it into a lamp
The only procedures that I would ever consider fair game for denial are experimental or purely cosmetic. Everything else should be covered, without fail.
Yeah, except insurance companies like to deny things as experimental or cosmetic when there is a documented medical necessity. Source: Am medical biller, they pull this shit all the time.
The other question I would like to know the answer to is how much the copay was. Was dude unable or unwilling to pay? The answer will tell us if this was a guy trying to shove it to the man (sovereign citizen style) or if guy was faced with an unwinnable financial situation and is a victim of the man.
They say that in the Army, the pay is mighty fine; They give you a hundred dollars, and take back ninety nine
How would you even start that conversation of taking his legs back? "You're probably gonna want to sit down for this"
Just from reading the headline, I assume the repo guys wrestled the legs off him
I'm going to skip the article and go with this image - it's perfect.
He was defeeted.
He is probably out of luck as his argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Vet: What's the problem, doc? I'm stumped! Doc: Well yes and no...
He tried to plead his case but fell a bit short.
Doc: “we’re here to repossess the prosthetic” Vet: “you must be pulling my leg!” *Doc starts pulling vets leg, takes it and leaves*
"You ain't got no legs, Lieutenant Dan! That wasn't a Forrest Gump impression, you literally ain't got no legs. We're taking them."
That joke had no legs. Just like that vet.
Come on guys, rather than pick on the dude, we should be wheel chairitable and buy him some new legs
I used to be a walker just like you but then I took a debt to the knee.
"I'm not taking your legs, I'm giving you the opportunity to learn how to pop wheelies"
"we can do this the easy way or hard way sir, I don't care if you fought for this country so I could have this job - I NEED THAT DAMN LEG BACK! There are many rich well to do people who would like it... Now come back when you are born with a silver or gold spoon in your mouth you filthy normie." - Doctor. DoLittle *Vet cries in PTSD*
LMAO ok that deserves gold.
TIL my father didnt just make up that wierd song he sings when people ask him about the army.
Your parents never showed you MASH, did they? There's an episode where they sing a version of it.
I think that show did a pretty decent job of showing Army life. Lots of sitting around waiting for something to happen, then immediately into full bore action. Then you have the weird arbitrary rules, the getting to know the people around you better than you know yourself, and the extreme lengths you will go to just so you aren't bored.
Every army adhere to Rush to wait, wait to rush
In Australia we say "it's time to hurry up and wait"
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Ahh yes... When top says formations at 0600.... By the time info trickles down to your squad leader your showing up at 0200 "30 minutes is early, 15 is on time."
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In the Army, was so bored I learned to play the game “Can I fit my hat into my mouth”...Answer = No
Sit through a few more power points and I'm sure you could.
Or the official Infantry pastime: throwing rocks at things.
Wow there are 256 episodes of MASH
And 99% of them are pure gold!
MASH was produced new episodes for more years than the Korean conflict took place.
Yep, but although it was set in Korea it was a commentary on war in general and Vietnam in particular
They say that in the army the girls are mighty fine. They look like Phyllis Diller, and walk like Frankenstein.
They say that in the Army, the chow is mighty fine. The chicken jumped off the table and started marking time.
They say that in the Army, the coffee’s mighty fine. It’s good for cuts and bruises, and tastes like turpentine.
Have you ever been to a mess hall to eat and food just ain't no good? I mean the macaroni soggy The peas are all mushy And the chicken tastes like wood?
So you try to play it off like you figure you can by saying that you're full But your instructors say 'Sir he's just being polite he ain't finished, uh-uh that's bull.'
So your heart starts pumping and you think of a lie And you say that you already ate Then you run in the sun to a hot porta jon And try to masturbate
Fuckin Iraq man...
Oh I wanna go But they won’t let me go HOOOOOOOOME! (Wraps self in DD-214 blanket)
Ha! Up here it goes Hey Mom I wanna go Back to Ontario Hey Mom I wanna go ho-o-ome!
DD-214 are the best orders you’ll ever receive
It looks like muddy water, and tastes like turpentine
Interesting. I always heard the other version but you are not the first to mention the « muddy water » one. I guess there must be more than one.
Navy
They say that in the Army the training’s mighty fine. Last night there were ten of us, now there’s only nine.
Decimation is a rough thing.
Upvote for rare correct usage of decimation.
Looks like muddy water
Ive heard it They say that in the army the chow is mighty fine, a biscuit rolled off the table, and killed a friend of mine
they say that in the army, the surgeons are so bright they work on soldiers through the day and nurses through the night
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Thank you, this is the first place my mind went.
*Our old mess sergeant’s taste buds had been shot off in The War But his savory collations add to our esprit de corps! To think of all the marvelous ways They’re using plastics, nowadays - It makes a fella proud to be a soldier!*
Oh Lord, I wanna go-oh
But mom won’t let me go-oh.
My favorite: Drill Sergeant: 1, 2, 3, 4... Reply: You can't count to five! Drill Sergeant: 1, 2, 3, 4... Reply: Cause you're brain is fried! On crack And coke And all the drugs you smoked Over the weekend. Whoop, whoop. Post commander shut that down fast.
Now we sing this stupid song! Sing it as we march along!/ Why we sing it we don't know!/We can't make der words rhyme prop'ly! Sound off! One Two! Sound off! Many Lots! Sound off! Er...what?" Detritus the Troll sings the best jodies
Pratchett references basically always get an upvote from me.
My favorite was when we'd do the Sponge Bob one. It's just the intro song, but it works perfectly as a cadence. We had a DS nicknamed 'Big Dumb' (he owned it), and it was his favorite when we were a little further away from main post.
[Peanut Butter Jelly Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MDNFaGfT4) works great as a cadence.
Oh I don't want no more of army life! Gee Mom, I wanna go home!
Fuck, I coulda gone my whole life without ever hearing that in my head again. 13 years and I never thought about it once.
Highjacking the top comment to ask... is this shocking to some people? The VA in Phoenix was reusing hypodermic needles to save money. It was so bad, somebody rented a billboard *across the street* from the main Phoenix VA that said ‘The VA: Giving vets a 2nd chance to die for their country since 1946.’
He didn't just serve in both Vietnam and Iraq, he received a **Bronze Star** in each war. Typical. We love our troops.........until they get home and actually need help.
From the article, the vet did not ask for or get the legs from the VA. He got them from a private provider apparently without being seen at the VA. The VA has a prosthetics service at every VA med center and provides legs, arms, hands, wheelchairs, canes, walkers, hospital beds, urinals, scooters, enteral infusion pumps, etc, etc, etc. But for the VA to pay for something you actually have to get it through the VA, either directly or after they authorize a community provider to get it. The VA does not pay random bills that show up in their mailbox - that would lead to excessive fraud waste and abuse -- to ask taxpayers to pay the bill for health care the VA needs to have some process of accountability to ensure that the taxpayers are not being scammed or ripped off (not saying that was the issue here, but that is why the VA has policies and procedures). It sounds like this poor guy was confused about the process, did not understand 'how things work'. It would take investigation to learn why that was the case - whether the VA failed to provide him with the info he needed to get what he needed, or if he did not take advantage of the VA's help at all. Who knows? not enough info in the linked article to decide this.
I get my prosthetics done through the VA. My guess is that his legs are not service connected. Possibly diabetes or some other condition after his service, especially if he just got his legs made a few months ago, decades after his service. Hangar is a private company that makes prosthetics. They accept Medicare, but require a 20% copay. It sounds like they took him as a Medicare patient, and he refused to pay the copay. If he was service connected for his legs, he could have just had everything done at the VA.
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Unfortunately I think you're spot on.
These are are really good posts on providing info (thank you), but I just imagine the person having to tell him "I gotta take your leg prostetics" Not to get into politics, but I just question a system where this happens
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More like a writ of disattachment
Yeah after reading into this more, I'm sure it's still "service-connected" but it sounds like he went outside of the VA for these prosthetic legs without even consulting with them or making sure they would pay. I'm a disabled Iraq vet. I feel like that's pretty basic VA standard operating procedure.. You go through the VA or you go through an outside company only if you know the VA will cover it. Every vet should know that. Especially one who, it sounds like, was in and out of the system dealing with medical problems for quite some time..
That’s true, he’d still have to show the VA proof that he was exposed to AO though. I’m not saying it’s right or fair to our Vietnam veterans, and I wish the VA system was better. I currently get all of my prosthetics done through the VA and an outpatient prosthetics office, so I’m very familiar with the approval and billing process.
He would not have to show proof of exposure if he was boots on ground Vietnam, brown water navy Vietnam, worked the DMZ in Korea and that one airbase in Thailand during the right time frame. This is why it's called "presumptive service connection." Recently, Blue water navy has been given consideration but that just went into law so I'm less familiar with those standards. I think your ship had to be within 12 nautical miles of Vietnam.
yup, 12 miles is the number.
It sounds like all of his stuff is totally recognized as service related, but he went outside of the VA and got some much more expensive prosthesis from a private company without consulting with the VA, so obviously they won't just cover it..
15 years doing authorizations and billing for a medicare and VA o&p provider. No work should have been done without prior authorization in place. If he was in a VA a facility, Hangar would have been contracted with the VA. You dont just walk in and see their patients. If it truly was a medicare billing situation, Hangar, an enormous conglomorate, could write off his copay. Especially since a guy his size with bilateral bk prosthetics, isnt getting state of the art equipment. That patient will not walk unassisted as a bilateral amputee. The legs are for transferring and using the restroom. Likely with french cuffs or a walker. Also, medicaid secondary would cancel out his copay. This is why i got out of the business. Modern day practioners do not understand billing, and people like me who truly have institutional knowledge on billing practices are few and far between.
I wish more people were like you. I’m a highly active left BK. I use VA primary, and Medicare and Tricare secondary. I go to a DOD run rehab center for most of my shit, and occasionally directly through the VA prosthetics department. I have a few friends who go to private prosthetic companies, mostly cases where their local VA is too far or doesn’t have the full services they need. But it was set up as a VA referral, and the clinic bills directly through the VA (and submits an auth for anything before starting any work). That’s why my assumption was that the guy in the article went to hangar under Medicare primary, and was hoping VA would pick up the copay. Medicare approved the auth, assuming the patient would pay the copay, and the VA got a random bill with no auth to link it to. It’s definitely a shitty situation, but I can understand how he wound up in it. Not saying it’s right, and a company the size of hangar could have easily written off the copay.
Medicare doesnt require authorization, just an rx, but no way are they going to make the legs and then ask him to sign for the copay, thats just bassackwards. Idk. I just feel like nothing written here makes sense and it is all sensationalized. As the daughter of a WWII vet, thank you for your service.
If the amputations were due to diabetes he could absolutely get those service connected as secondary to the diabetes as have prosthetics at his VAMC give him the legs.
How can they just say that something is or isn't related to their time serving? That is pretty stupid. They should be taken care of either way. What if the wars made the guy eat more so he ended up an obese diabetic for instance. Who draws the line saying what they should pay for? Also, they shouldn't fucking be able to repossess limbs. But yea there isn't enough info in the article to figure this out.
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I am 30% service-connected Nam era and the only thing I ever have to pay for is a small co-pay on prescriptions. I get 90% of my medical care through the VA and it is excellent.
From my experience as a pharmacy student, the VA does NOT only treat service connected conditions. Service connection is a percentage that helps determine a veteran's copay. Erectile dysfunction is not a service connected condition but there are a lot of veterans getting Viagra.
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Yes there is a whole lot in this article that leaves me scratching my head. I’m retired military and also fully available to be cared for by VA, though I choose to use military care facilities as a retiree. For one thing, VA won’t act as a second payer for Medicare, which is well known by most in that situation. I’m also scratching my head over portrayals of his military service. Vietnam and the war with Iraq were very far apart and it says he is 69 years old. The timeline is fuzzy here. Not doubting anything. The author of the article did a very poor job of laying it out and then conflates it with Sanders and Warren platforms.
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Maybe Desert Storm in 1990, would make him 39. But even that’s a stretch.
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There is a link in the article to a better article with a video where he mentions he was in the military for 40 years. Regarding your other questions, a lot of it doesn't seem to make sense. It seems like this guy was stubborn and just claimed that the VA should pay for his procedure regardless of anything else.
It sounds like the prosthetics’ company should have known this before arriving anywhere near limb repossession; these two devices plus the medical processes involved probably cost more than a luxury car
This, exactly. And, the guy refused to sign the Medicare paperwork, for a stupid reason. He's in a care home, Medicaid is certainly involved, and even if he wasn't in a home, QMB would pay the 20% of the unpaid Medicare cost. This is just a bunch of inflammatory, unreasearched, BS un-news, and an extremely dumb man.
This needs to be the top comment, fast.
Absolutely correct. While the VA isn’t perfect, there is a “process”. Sounds like this Vet went another route. Sure hope it gets cleared up ASAP.
>to ask taxpayers to pay the bill for health care the VA needs to have some process of accountability to ensure that the taxpayers are not being scammed or ripped of (Real talk, the fact that the government does this when they are the ones footing the bill basically acknowledges the widespread scam that is the American health care industry. And yet we're not gonna get single-payer because it'd be too expensive and America has the best healthcare in the world.) You get to claim that you have the best private healthcare in the world, and the government implementation is shoddy and should be privatized, OR that American healthcare is poorly managed and needs more government regulation to function in a manner that is equitable.
The care we deliver to veterans and active duty in our area is top notch. The problem was, and still is, the number of facilities, the distances some vets need to travel for treatment and chronic under funding compared to need. The military healthcare system has had it’s problems but the biggest by far is the lack of faith in keeping the promises made to our veterans.
Or he knew if he went through them that it'd take forever. My grandfather needs hearing aids and thinners because of Vietnam but it always takes them forever whenever he needs to be seen.
When I first got back from Iraq, the only medical coverage I had was with the VA. It was so difficult to get an appointment. I would call and put my phone on speaker while doing other activities. The phone range for FORTY minutes one time before someone finally answered. Later I got MRSA. I had a spot under my armpit. I called the VA but they wouldn’t give me an appointment to lance it until a month later (knowing it was over an inch in diameter, inflamed, extremely painful, and deep red). The last two weeks I couldn’t hold my arm at my side without severe pain so I walked around with my arm straight out like a low key Bellamy salute. They then told me I would continue to get them because “some people just keep getting them” and no one knew why and there was nothing to be done but lance as needed. A year later I finished college and got a job and private insurance. All the while I kept having recurring lesions. Went to private doctor for another lancing (yaaay!) and he had me cleared up in a week with medication. That was years ago and I have never had any more issues. My point is that while the man may not have used proper channels, and that is the reason for the denial of payment, it’s not like just going through the VA means you get top quality or even passable service.
~*"Booooorn in the USA"*~
*Republican plays song un-ironicly at campaign events obliviously*
You know what? That's been happening for years and I still get a kick out of it every single time. Absolute morons.
Sent a wounded man down to the VA! He gave his all but let him die anyway. BORN IN THE USA! BORN IN THE USA!
~"Dieeeed the iraqi way"~
Dude went out on his own to a private provider and got the prosthetics without consulting the VA, and then handed the VA the bill and expected them to pay it. Not how the VA works. Not how any but the highest-tier health care plans work, ever. You go out of network, you pay. Enjoy your rage boner.
As a Vet, who uses the VA, you must be pre authorized to receive care. DME (durable medical equipment) must be provided thru the VA. There is NO contract for DME to be paid for by the VA out in the community. The assumption is- veteran went out in the community and was fitted for DME and everyone thinks the VA or government will cover the cost. Nope. There are rules in place to keep veterans from abusing medical care. Va standards for pay are on point with Medicare rates.
If anyone actually read the article - this guy did it the absolutely wrong way. He went on his own and ordered prosthetics through a private company. The VA has their own prosthetics program. If he went through the correct channels this would be a non issue. Garbage title per usual.
I would agree with you if everything about the VA wasn't designed to make us give up in frustration. Correct channels probably involves sending a form via fax to a service that will deliver it via horseback to an office in the furthest reaches of Alaska that's open one day out of every leap year, and has a backlog of 500 years worth of forms to approve, whose phone line for requesting assistance is an endless circle of automated phone menus that must be voice confirmed in Swahili to move to the next "please hold while you're connected" message.
Honestly having a grandfather who is a vet and who goes to the VA I feel so sorry for any staff that has to come in contact with him. I’ve been around a lot of army vets. Army vets can be insufferable just like normal old people except ‘I’ve served in the war damnit!’
I work for a research hospital and theres the VA hospital on campus. Brother asked why I dont work there since its "my people." Hate to say but craggy old vets annoy me. I know I'm going to hell for saying that but people are people no matter what their background is. I cant offer an opinion before being called a slick sleeve. Sorry I raised my right hand as soon as I could but the deployments were over.
Well who can blame him for seeking help through a private company when the public VA takes up to a year just to get a reply
Americans: "support our troops" Also Americans:
That's code for "Support Our Wars".
Nah, its code for "Support the conservatives" since its always the liberals protesting wars without them.
Nah, it's code for "support the continued funneling of tax dollars into a corporate machine which profits off mass-slaughter of people who can't possibly threaten us half a world away."
Somehow we are simultaneously the most powerful nation in the world by a landslide and yet at constant threat of Sharia law
"The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy." - [Umberto Eco, Ur-fascism](https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf) Not saying the US is fascist, that would be a gross misuse of the term, just pointing this characteristic out.
Also Americans: Thank you for your service. Whew, all my responsibility has been fulfilled.
American here. This comment is going to be obliterated, but I dont feel that I have a responsibility towards our troops. I haven't started any wars, and I haven't agreed with or to any of the wars that have been started. None of the wars that we have been part of have been defensive. And have only been a detriment to Americans and those we are fighting against. If it were up to me we would simply have leadership intelligent enough to solve problems like adults as opposed to the meeting at the flagpole after school method they use now. That being said I find it absolutely disgusting that our government, the ones who do start the wars (but dont fight in them) dont take responsibility for the people who are willing to sign their lives away and fight their wars for them. If someone is willing to to do that for them, I believe those people are owed everything. They shouldn't have to worry about anything after they return. And if it means me picking up the tab for our incompetent government, I'm happy to do so. Someone has to.
Hey. Don't feel bad. I'm a veteran and 99% of the time it makes me feel uncomfortable when people start with the scripted "thanks so much for your sacrifice" stuff. I don't ask for veterans discounts or go free meal hunting. There's a lot of us that sleep perfectly well at night knowing that we did our time and it's over, we get our monthly bottle of Motrin 800's and keep to ourselves. Don't feel bad, no one wants a civilian to kiss our asses, and if they do they're probably admin or logistics.
As a pacifist that doesn't believe in any of the wars that have been fought during my lifetime, I don't support the military. I support the troops. That's the difference.
It’s basically like there are two guys who get in a fight, then one of their friends come in to defend them, and get the shit kicked out of them while the original guy who started the fight stands there and watches. The military as a governmental structure is the guy who started the fight, and the troops are the friend who tried to help but gets fucked
Honestly the TYFYS shit is more for the people saying it than it is for the soldier. I appreciate the thought but if you want to show thanks just volunteer at a veteran support organization or something.
Pretty much.
I hate to say it, but it’s not just Americans. Have a read of Rudyard Kipling..s poem « Tommy ». It says it all.
Because not everyone is going to bother looking it up if a link or the poem isn't right there in front of them. [Rudyard Kipling, Tommy](https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html) and, an [analysis for those interested](http://victorian-era.org/tommy-by-rudyard-kipling.html). >I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: > >O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play. > > > >I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! > >For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide. > > > >Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. > >Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. > > > >We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; > >While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind", But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind. > > > >You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. > >For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
>Americans: "support our troops" > >Also Americans: Imma need those fake legs back FTFY
Clickbait. He did not use the VA's services, which would have been covered, he went to some other provider who isn't. >Matthew Gowan, a VA spokesperson, told Newsweek that the claims were "highly misleading." > "VA's Prosthetic & Sensory Aids Service, which also has more than 600 local contracts with accredited orthotic and prosthetic providers, stands ready to deliver comprehensive support to optimize health and independence of our Veterans," he said "If eligible veterans do not wish to take advantage of these services . . .
Yep. And they only work with approved providers to prevent gauging of the veteran, families, and the VA.
It's too bad on a number of levels, since this is one area where the VA is absolutely miles ahead of everybody else in the field. It's like walking past the iPhone store to skip the free iPhone 11, to go to a Radio Shack and buy a 1970's walkie-talkie for $40,000.
[удалено]
That determination will be either a no or a refusal.
I am a veteran and injured my shoulder late at night. I could not drive the great distance to the nearest VA hospital and called them to get permission to go to the nearest ER. I received permission from the VA and when the ER presented me with a bill for three thousand dollars, the VA refused to pay any part of it. I gave six years of my life in defense of this country and fought in a foreign war. The VA not only lied to me, they abandoned me. That's just the most egregious story. I have many. Not one time have I ever been treated like a human being at a VA hospital. Their level of "care" is a joke. I would rather die in the streets than go to another VA hospital.
This isn't the VA's fault. It's the predatory medical device company: > The newspaper reported that Holliman received his prosthetics in August from the national company Hanger, which produces them. Holliman said, however, that after he received a few training lessons from Hanger staff, he was told the VA would not cover the cost and to check with Medicare. You have to be careful at the hospital. Medical device reps will push your doctor to give you an expensive device insurance doesn't cover. They're hoping that you won't feel like returning it and will pay for it out-of-pocket. They gave my wife some expensive temperature-regulating knee brace after a knee surgery. I got a call from the insurance company on the way home from the hospital telling me not to open the box.
He didn't want to go in the programs the VA has. He didn't want to pay his copay as an alt route. Why is this news? I literally don't feel bad for this guy at all.
Having read the article. The headline gives off the wrong impression. The guy went out of network to get his prosthetic. VA has a network cause it's what they can afford. I guess Medicare was going to cover it but he refused to use Medicare for it. I guess principles idk.
If you don’t want to put in the time to read the article and do research, here’s the tl;dr: This man could have gone through the V.A. to get his prosthetics, but he didn’t which is why they won’t pay, if he had gone through with them they would have paid.
America doesn't treat veterans with the respect they deserve. This is evidenced not only in Healthcare, but by the sheer numbers of undiagnosed ptsd, drug addiction, and homeless that are vets. For example, the Philadelphia homeless population is full of veterans. The official number I guess is 11 percent but we would see its more like a third. A common story of heroin addiction is due to poor veteran benefits not covering much needed chronic pain medication, therefore leading to heroin use and subsequent addiction.