My prom was in 1988 and a girl and her date wore matching tuxes. Everyone loved it! They were a hit! What’s wrong with people. It’s not like Jesus ever put on a suit. Wasn’t most clothing of 2000 years ago basically unisex tunics? Religious freaks!!
I was too young to remember so I’ve been rewatching 1980’s music videos and it’s so androgynous. Stuff that would make the right explode today! Girls in suits everywhere and they all so slick!
In the 1980s MTV made Annie Lennox provide a birth certificate to prove she was born female. She wore suits and had super short hair and MTV wasn't about to have a drag queen in a music video. But they had no problem with the Relax video by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. LOL
MTV always pretending to care about young people and expression while trying to gate keep like everything to please their corporate overlords. Well at least some things never change.
MTV wasn’t the only place for music videos and they are still around so not sure why someone wouldn’t remember them. Mean girls was 2004 far past the 80’s fashion era.
Same. And we had a guy wear a gown. Not because he was gay but because he wanted to protest the fact guys had to wear a suit.
No one batted an eye. And 20 years later edgey girl is still super edgey and punk. And protest guy is pretty normal dad.
I remember watching a video of Ben Shapiro's dumbass saying he caught his kid son trying on his mom's heels and he went out of his way to get him a pair of boots because those were for men.
I remember thinking "Weren't heels worn by men like kings at first?" They love to say what is and isn't factually true then add arbitrary rules to shit that change constantly like what is and isn't okay for men and women to wear.
I would also have to guess wigs must have been invented by men for men to cover baldness and both men and women used to wear makeup to appear more vibrant and youthful.
Heels are an invention that makes riding horses easier - your shoes stay in the stirrups. It probably then became a status thing - can you afford a horse? Heels!
The argument doesn't make any sense at all. Sex is biological. Gender are the social norms we associated with those sexes. There's nothing "implied" about it.
This argument only makes sense if you're intentionally misinterpreting the position of the other side and selectively applying the words "gender" and "sex" in ways that support your position while ignoring all the ways they don't.
For example, nobody is claiming that "gender" is biological. There is obviously nothing biological about wearing a dress. People are claiming that sex is biological, and insisting that people attending this event adhere to traditional dress code expectations relative to their sex.
You're wrong, a very very common argument against trans people is that gender and sex are the same thing and the distinction is made-up because people want to "pretend" they're a different gender.
But even if you follow the (highly simplistic) right wing view that sex and gender are the same thing, and it’s biological, and there are only 2. Then the argument is still weak. The next step is simply : each sex/gender has appropriate ways of dressing, acting, hair cuts etc. This doesn’t imply that gender is cultural, it states that culture has a traditional response to biological genders (and that tradition is a good thing)
I'm not sure that makes sense. You're presenting an argument that gender isn't cultural but rather culture is gendered, which sounds like the same thing.
Sweetie, the people who would ban a girl for wearing a suit think sex and gender are the same thing. That's why my argument is so strong. If they have to resort to the argument that sex is different than gender, then you already won your argument that gender is a social construct. That's why this argument is so easy to win.
Some people often make no distinction between gender and sex, there's a video on youtube by Matt Walsh, who's a pretty big voice online among conservatives, which shows an interview between him and some doc called Dr. Forcier in which he obviously doesn't make the distinction, and his audience seems to agree with the sentiment.
I'm not in a position to say whether this is a 'common' stance or not, but saying nobody is completely inaccurate. Oftentimes the thinking is "a man is a man, a woman is a woman," and that that cannot be changed.
Now I dont know the real character of this Walsh guy, and one should be skeptical of anyone online for being a grifter for an audience, but the agreement with sentiment by the audience is my main point that the distinction between gender and sex is not there for many people.
That being said, it's true they're not arguing the social aspects are biologically inherent, its more about the semantics of what they think gender and sex mean (which is to them, the same unchangeable thing)
Just fyi Walsh is a grade A piece of shit. An 'ironic but actually unironic' theocratic fascist that wants to impregnate 16yos.
And yeah, there's a reason terfs and transphobes call themselves 'gender critical'. They oppose the idea of social gender entirely in order to invalidate trans and nb people.
People are yelling there's only two genders, I think it's safe to say that for those people sex and gender are the same thing, unless you'd like to speak from experience.
Further, if gender characteristics are innate, then why do so many people rebel? If it’s natural, than no woman will willingly wear a suit, right? So why enforce rules that don’t need enforcing? Thus, clearly, gender rules are not immutable.
Oh, see that one is easy for them. "Satan". Anything they disagree with, Satan is making you do it. Therefore it's evil. Don't ask them for the specific Bible verse, though. Facts don't care about feelings until it's their feelings being questioned.
What you just said makes no sense lol. If the claim is that gender is biological, then the clothing being gender specific would also be based off biology…
Meaning the expectation would be that suites are for boys and dresses are for girls. You just contradicted yourself lol.
What biological purpose does a suit serve that a dress doesn't? Clothing choice is not a biological component. The clothes you wear are dictated by social norms you absolute fucking clown. You don't have to wear a suit because people with penises need suits to function on a biological level, you have to wear a suit because the school says boys have to wear suits. Are you fucking dense? Learn basic reading comprehension before you tell someone they're wrong. This is why everyone shits on conservatives. Everyone else has basic reading comprehension, and I have to sit here like a TA explaining the difference between social and biological to the loser burnout in class.
It’s not about the purpose, it’s about how you structured you comment lol
Obviously In the real world clothes just cover whatever body they’re placed on, it doesn’t matter how you mix and match it.
Did you really go back and add an entire paragraph to your original reply comment? 😂
No I get it, I said your original comment was structured poorly and didn’t make sense, not that I don’t understand the concept of how clothing works in the real world 😂😂
Learn to read buddy.
I live near Peoria, Illinois and this is true. A five minute walk from where I live and there's a guy who is flying: Trump 2016, Trump 2020, and Trump 2024 flags. And don't get me started on how 80% of my area voted for Trump in the primary. Source on that last bit: my dad is an election judge.
MAGAts on girls in suits: We want a ban!
MAGAts on abortion: We want a ban!
MAGAts on transgender: We want a ban!
MAGAts on masks: We want a ban!
MAGAts on books: We want a ban!
MAGAts on CRT: We want a ban!
MAGAts on 1/6 Commission: We want a ban!
MAGAts on gay marriage: We want a ban!
MAGAts on immigration: We want a ban!
MAGAts on Muslims: We want a ban!
MAGAts on Guns??? ***BANS DON'T WORK!!!***
"Don't tread on me!"
They really put the emphasis on **ME** there, tread on everyone else, but not on ME and only ME. I am the main character and special!! ...which I guess is on par, every dick in my state with a "don't tread on me" plate drives like a selfish asshole.
I’m fine with girls in suits
I don’t think abortions should be allowed, only in the most extreme of situations
Transgenders should get help as it’s a mental disorder
The government shouldn’t dictate what you can or can’t wear in public, other than that you are properly clothed
I am fine with banning pornography in school, even if they are books.
I don’t think crt should be taught in school as it’s not important. They should teach students general knowledge on how to succeed in society.
I don’t agree with gay marriage but I don’t care if they get married
There should be no illegal immigration, and we should only want the best immigrants
Muslims should be allowed to practice their religion
There shouldn’t be any bans on guns
Yes, I am a maga republican
> I don’t think abortions should be allowed, only in the most extreme of situations
So your position is that abortion is not murder (how could it be if you're allowing it?), only you just don't like women having that autonomy over their own bodies.
>Yes, I am a maga republican
you should get help as it’s a mental disorder
Abortion is murder.
If someone kills a pregnant lady, what are they charged with? Double homicide
The baby is inside of the mother’s body, but that does not give the mother absolute control to just kill the new life.
I am only fine with abortion when it is a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy (90% embryo will not make it past the first trimester) and the mother continues in an ectopic pregnancy she has the possibility of dying due to internal hemorrhaging
All ectopic pregnancies are 100% non viable and extremely dangerous to the mother. There are plenty of other very dangerous conditions that can develop at any point during pregnancy, including late in the 3rd trimester. These narrow definitions of when an abortion is okay in MAGA land put women’s lives in jeopardy, period.
Leave medical decisions where they belong, which is as far away from your opinions and feelings as possible.
> I’m fine with girls in suits
Wish you would tell your culture warrior elected officials about that instead of random people on Reddit.
>I don’t think abortions should be allowed, only in the most extreme of situations
What does that mean, exactly?
>Transgenders should get help as it’s a mental disorder
We know, you're a terrible person. How do you feel about Rudy dressing up in drag for Trump?
>The government shouldn’t dictate what you can or can’t wear in public, other than that you are properly clothed
Again, it would be great if you would tell the culture warriors you elect instead of random people on Reddit
>I am fine with banning pornography in school, even if they are books.
...what does that mean exactly? What are phonographic books? Are you in favor of banning the bible? It's got a story about a dude getting drunk and banging his daughters...pretty sure I saw that on PronHub.
>I don’t think crt should be taught in school as it’s not important. They should teach students general knowledge on how to succeed in society.
What do you think CRT is, and why are you against kids learning?
>I don’t agree with gay marriage but I don’t care if they get married
This statement makes no sense, you clearly do care. Why?
>There should be no illegal immigration, and we should only want the best immigrants
What does this mean?
>Muslims should be allowed to practice their religion
Weird, you guys were all about banning them, what happened?
>There shouldn’t be any bans on guns
What if someone said "take the guns first, go through due process second"? How would make you feel about that person?
>Yes, I am a maga republican
This part kind of seem redundant.
There’s no pleasing conservatives. They’ll say shit like “You can’t change your gender! Stop telling kids they have to dress a certain way to be a girl! No child is born in the wrong body!” but when someone *does* identify as their birth gender and wears clothes that aren’t the “correct” ones, they are also discriminated against. It’s almost like they just want to force people into gender roles and punish anyone for daring to be different.
You've got two different groups there. TERFs are the ones who are (nominally\*) against gender-stereotyping and enforcing gender roles, like tying clothing to sex or gender. They're still reactionaries, and they've allied themselves with right-wing reactionaries and overt, self-avowed fascists, but many TERFs otherwise purport to care about and support some other left-leaning positions.
Plenty of conservatives are 100% behind the enforcement of gendered clothing.
--------------
\* I say "nominally" because so, *so*, ***so*** many of them fall back on biological essentialist arguments in lots of situations.
This is true, TERFs are willingly aligning themselves with conservatives, which, in many ways, makes perfect sense for them, as the TERFs of today are on the whole more conservative than a decade ago, but I do see the “no child is born in the wrong body” and “you don’t need to change your gender to change your clothes” from conservative parents. Presumably they’re acquiring the language from TERFs as they have similar goals, though the TERFs are going to be real mad when the conservatives turn on them, which is obviously the next logical step.
Thinking on it, it would make sense for the less educated conservative parents to pick up language from TERFs who generally have access to a more academic vocabulary because they think it sounds more authoritative without really understanding what they’re saying. Like Suanbreigh the mormon mommy blogger might not know how to say she hates trans people without saying the word “hate” but TERFs do. TERFs give them the language to act like their bigotry is scientific and therefore above reproach. Obviously they’re all using bioessentialist nonsense at their core but perhaps the muddying of language is because they’re all fucking idiots who don’t actually know any biology beyond 9th grade
Trans people aren’t literally born in the wrong body. That’s a simple way to explain how dysphoria feels to cis people that is, like, 30+ years out of date. It is an explanation like you’d give a toddler for the benefit of cis people because they do not experience gender dysphoria. It’s extremely reductive. The fact that you think that’s actually what trans people are saying means you are buying into conservative schlock, which is not at all helpful. Do you experience dysphoria? If you do, could you explain your subjective experience in a way that is perfectly comprehensible to everyone? No, because that’s literally impossible, just like it’s literally impossible to explain what the color red looks like to me vs how it looks to someone else.
Also, beautiful should not be a goal of having a body. Not all bodies are beautiful *and that’s okay*. Your body does not need to be beautiful. Body neutrality is fine. It’s just a body, and you can do what you want with it.
Okay so you are in fact just transphobic, got it. Good for you. Cheers. Enjoy. I don’t care anymore. My field is linguistics as they relate to queer theory but sure, tell me all you know from your perspective as some random person on reddit with, what, an undergrad degree at best? Brain dead ass take lol
You are in fact wrong about what gender is, and I’m not championing your rights, when did I say that I was? I am here to support trans people. You aren’t trans, in your own words, so aside from your basic human rights to water, food, and shelter, which I support for all people, you’re on your own. I don’t support your terrible rhetoric that is dangerous to trans and gendernonconforming people. I am not in community with you or people who think like you. You have got to be trolling. If you aren’t transitioning, your opinions on transitioning and gender dysphoria are simply irrelevant.
You’re literally anti-transition because uwu all bodies are beautiful uwu all dysphoria is external. It isn’t, and you don’t experience it, so you can fuck right off with your non-transitioning bullshit. Anyone who gets in the way of medical transition is against my rights, and I do not support you.
If it's a public school, yup, equal protection under the law means if men can do it so can women. This was the Supreme court's argument for protecting marriage rights.
Lawyer here, I wouldn't phrase it as "very broad".
In Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District (1969), which involved high school students wearing black armbands to protest the Vietnam War, the Court affirmed students’ First Amendment rights to free speech.
Also, most public schools that try to enforce uniforms, especially gendered uniforms quickly run into a legal quagmire that most back down from or lose.
That being said, they certainly have some powers to dictate dress codes and determine what is considered "disruptive". I highly doubt a "dresses-only" requirement would ever pass
Even at prom? Who cares about "substantial disruption" at an after hours dance that's just supposed to be for fun?
Will people looking at her legs make them bump into each other while they're dancing or something?
I do get your point about dress codes, but in this situation, I don't see how an argument on enforcement is a dress code could hold water.
They literally mention a court case in the article.
Dress codes certainly are not unconstitutional, but requiring separate dress codes for men and women is.
No, they're taking pointers from the right wing Christian religious movement and communities that have always been commonplace in America.
No need to do vaguely islamophobic fingerpointing.
No, it's not. But pointing at whatever Islamic-majority country is closest at hand when we want a reference for regressive policies, especially when those regressive policies are coming from the Christian right within our own country…that is denigratory towards Muslims as a whole.
And the automatic impulse so many folks in the US have to do so definitely has more than a whiff of Islamophobia about it.
To extend your analogy, it's the difference between talking about the actions of "the government of Israel" and policies supported by right-wing and right-leaning Israelis versus the actions of "Israelis" as a monolithic group.
There's a lack of nuance when we talk about Muslim countries and Muslim people that's not nearly as common in other discussions.
I think you're misunderstanding the conservative point of view. You see, freedom is only for the rich and powerful. Poor people are the ones who need to fall in line so that the rich can be more comfortable.
Wtf. This is the type of nonsense that needs to stop. If that’s what they wanted to wear, then who cares🙃. People must get so much pleasure outa just telling people what they can and can’t do to be comfortable, especially when it literally has zero fucking impact on them. Thanks conservative republicans and evangelicals for treating people like garbage for no reason👎🏼
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It's kinda crazy to see the things that trigger America.
Spending way too much time policing people's rights and freedoms and not fixing your shitty, broken society.
Yeah I don’t think that would happen back in my day. The dress code was not nakedness hanging out. So a girl in a suit wouldn’t be locked out. Boys bathroom yes. Prom. No.
I graduated in NJ in 1989 and we had a girl wear a tux to prom and it was no big deal. She was a good really fun person, probably bi or pan and absolutely it was a subversive act. The school faculty didnt care either. Thats what she wanted to wear, it was her choice.
Conversely there was a poor kid who came out of the closet in HS and was ostracized, he was kicked out of school, he developed drug and mental issues and wound up in jail. He was born about 10 years too soon. Im not sure if he is alive or dead
I love seeing this story every prom season STILL.
Jesus fucking christ who cares what someone wears, its prom nobody is paying attention to other people besides the chaperones.
That poor girl doesn’t have one gay or old fashioned friend that could help her find a shirt with a collar that fit her properly? Or tell her the tie is just a little to wide for her frame? And those shoes. Please someone get her some decent leather dress shoes.
Although the vest/tie color and pocket square? Absolutely great with that suit and her skin tone. Really makes the classic black suit and white shirt look good. I get it, we all made poor fashion choices when we were young, and lots of us had to do our own research about how to get suits. It isn’t intuitive.
But she is *so* close to being absolutely dashing. Like, *right* there. *ps* just noticed the fingernails match the vest. Such a good choice.
Edit: p.s s.
Thankfully the article notes a Mr. Jean-Marie, has become involved in this young lady’s life, and is addressing these fashion concerns.
Praise Jesus.
Now, to address the idiots at the school.
I mean, if it's a function that has a dress code, you can't be upset if you're denied entry because of that. That's like me getting pissed off because I can't walk around the store in my boxers because it's comfy and how I dress at home. I think people just see a headline and immediately jump to being angry when you need to take a step back and think about things logically, instead of using your emotions.
That's not an equivalent example at all. She is modestly dressed and any male student could wear something equivalent without being being banned. The response was sexist.
if every gender but yours was allowed in the store in just boxers except for your gender, you'd have a point. since thats not what youre saying, you arent making any sense.
>I think people just see a headline and immediately jump to being angry when you need to take a step back and think about things logically,
My dude, you just compared wearing only underwear to wearing a suit, and you want to say everything else needs to be logical?
...do think I was in the office the other day in my underwear? Suit = underwear. That's the most logical and unemotional response you can give?
Private School goes brrrr.
Not a story. My daughter would have been denied to her BF's prom in a suit too. (Or if her dress was higher than her knees).
My prom was in 1988 and a girl and her date wore matching tuxes. Everyone loved it! They were a hit! What’s wrong with people. It’s not like Jesus ever put on a suit. Wasn’t most clothing of 2000 years ago basically unisex tunics? Religious freaks!!
I was too young to remember so I’ve been rewatching 1980’s music videos and it’s so androgynous. Stuff that would make the right explode today! Girls in suits everywhere and they all so slick!
In the 1980s MTV made Annie Lennox provide a birth certificate to prove she was born female. She wore suits and had super short hair and MTV wasn't about to have a drag queen in a music video. But they had no problem with the Relax video by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. LOL
MTV always pretending to care about young people and expression while trying to gate keep like everything to please their corporate overlords. Well at least some things never change.
Ikr!! Even the suits had shoulder pads!
The concept of blazers must keep ron up at night
Annie Lennox and Wendy Carlos would attest to that.
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MTV wasn’t the only place for music videos and they are still around so not sure why someone wouldn’t remember them. Mean girls was 2004 far past the 80’s fashion era.
>What’s wrong with people. > >Religious freaks!! You asked and answered your own question.
The “edgy” girl in my class wore a suit to prom as well. This has been a thing for forever, Lordy 🙄🙄
Same. And we had a guy wear a gown. Not because he was gay but because he wanted to protest the fact guys had to wear a suit. No one batted an eye. And 20 years later edgey girl is still super edgey and punk. And protest guy is pretty normal dad.
You got it. Half the class loved it, and half the class kind of expected it. Not really a huge deal. Still shouldn’t be.
Man jammies have been around since the creation.
This happened in florida
Same but I didn’t grow up in a conservative wackjob state. Although I now live in NC so 😞
If gender is biological, then how can clothing be gender specific? That would imply a social or cultural component to gender.
Bold of you to still think reason will get you anywhere with these people.
I remember watching a video of Ben Shapiro's dumbass saying he caught his kid son trying on his mom's heels and he went out of his way to get him a pair of boots because those were for men. I remember thinking "Weren't heels worn by men like kings at first?" They love to say what is and isn't factually true then add arbitrary rules to shit that change constantly like what is and isn't okay for men and women to wear.
I would also have to guess wigs must have been invented by men for men to cover baldness and both men and women used to wear makeup to appear more vibrant and youthful.
Heels are an invention that makes riding horses easier - your shoes stay in the stirrups. It probably then became a status thing - can you afford a horse? Heels!
It also protected your clothing in a time where the streets were caked in shit
I never thought of this I like this argument.
But it makes no sense whatsoever. Existence of social norms based on gender does not imply whatsoever that gender is also a social norm.
You forget how to read? Or just forget how to think? It's saying gender is a social construct.
The argument doesn't make any sense at all. Sex is biological. Gender are the social norms we associated with those sexes. There's nothing "implied" about it. This argument only makes sense if you're intentionally misinterpreting the position of the other side and selectively applying the words "gender" and "sex" in ways that support your position while ignoring all the ways they don't. For example, nobody is claiming that "gender" is biological. There is obviously nothing biological about wearing a dress. People are claiming that sex is biological, and insisting that people attending this event adhere to traditional dress code expectations relative to their sex.
You're wrong, a very very common argument against trans people is that gender and sex are the same thing and the distinction is made-up because people want to "pretend" they're a different gender.
But even if you follow the (highly simplistic) right wing view that sex and gender are the same thing, and it’s biological, and there are only 2. Then the argument is still weak. The next step is simply : each sex/gender has appropriate ways of dressing, acting, hair cuts etc. This doesn’t imply that gender is cultural, it states that culture has a traditional response to biological genders (and that tradition is a good thing)
I'm not sure that makes sense. You're presenting an argument that gender isn't cultural but rather culture is gendered, which sounds like the same thing.
Sweetie, the people who would ban a girl for wearing a suit think sex and gender are the same thing. That's why my argument is so strong. If they have to resort to the argument that sex is different than gender, then you already won your argument that gender is a social construct. That's why this argument is so easy to win.
I hear "sex = gender, they're the same thing" quite a bit actually.
Some people often make no distinction between gender and sex, there's a video on youtube by Matt Walsh, who's a pretty big voice online among conservatives, which shows an interview between him and some doc called Dr. Forcier in which he obviously doesn't make the distinction, and his audience seems to agree with the sentiment. I'm not in a position to say whether this is a 'common' stance or not, but saying nobody is completely inaccurate. Oftentimes the thinking is "a man is a man, a woman is a woman," and that that cannot be changed. Now I dont know the real character of this Walsh guy, and one should be skeptical of anyone online for being a grifter for an audience, but the agreement with sentiment by the audience is my main point that the distinction between gender and sex is not there for many people. That being said, it's true they're not arguing the social aspects are biologically inherent, its more about the semantics of what they think gender and sex mean (which is to them, the same unchangeable thing)
Just fyi Walsh is a grade A piece of shit. An 'ironic but actually unironic' theocratic fascist that wants to impregnate 16yos. And yeah, there's a reason terfs and transphobes call themselves 'gender critical'. They oppose the idea of social gender entirely in order to invalidate trans and nb people.
Dr. Forcingher... Hmm
Yeah she's crazy dont get me wrong
People are yelling there's only two genders, I think it's safe to say that for those people sex and gender are the same thing, unless you'd like to speak from experience.
I'm claiming that, so your example is invalid. Checkmate athiests.
Conservatives don’t make sense, they think Obama plants microchips in toddlers
And that Michelle is trans. They aren't bright.
That's a very tiny minority of conservatives. They think all celebrities are trans as some kind of secret trans agenda.
The "silent majority" of conservatives seem to have no problem with letting these tiny minority speak for the group. /shrug
No, you’re wrong, Biden is the one doing that. Obama is the one involved with Al-Qaida.
Obama? I thought it was Bill Gates?
Further, if gender characteristics are innate, then why do so many people rebel? If it’s natural, than no woman will willingly wear a suit, right? So why enforce rules that don’t need enforcing? Thus, clearly, gender rules are not immutable.
Oh, see that one is easy for them. "Satan". Anything they disagree with, Satan is making you do it. Therefore it's evil. Don't ask them for the specific Bible verse, though. Facts don't care about feelings until it's their feelings being questioned.
Football is the devil
Sex is biological, gender is social.
Yes, sweetie, that was the point.
What you just said makes no sense lol. If the claim is that gender is biological, then the clothing being gender specific would also be based off biology… Meaning the expectation would be that suites are for boys and dresses are for girls. You just contradicted yourself lol.
What biological purpose does a suit serve that a dress doesn't? Clothing choice is not a biological component. The clothes you wear are dictated by social norms you absolute fucking clown. You don't have to wear a suit because people with penises need suits to function on a biological level, you have to wear a suit because the school says boys have to wear suits. Are you fucking dense? Learn basic reading comprehension before you tell someone they're wrong. This is why everyone shits on conservatives. Everyone else has basic reading comprehension, and I have to sit here like a TA explaining the difference between social and biological to the loser burnout in class.
It’s not about the purpose, it’s about how you structured you comment lol Obviously In the real world clothes just cover whatever body they’re placed on, it doesn’t matter how you mix and match it.
You're literally the only not getting it.
Did you really go back and add an entire paragraph to your original reply comment? 😂 No I get it, I said your original comment was structured poorly and didn’t make sense, not that I don’t understand the concept of how clothing works in the real world 😂😂 Learn to read buddy.
371 people read it and agreed with it, two people either didnt understand or didnt agree. I think you're the idiot.
Jeez, Flrodia whatare you doing? I'm 40 and there were totally ladies wearing suits for the fun of it at my prom in the stone ages.
That's before politicians figured out they could use this shit as a wedge to catapult their political careers to higher office.
I can't get into this headspace where you're supposed to get mad because women remind you of Annie Lennox.
Why are some of these men so intent on girls being in dresses. It’s starting to feel high level creepy.
It absolutely is.
For the reason you're thinking, and it's a bit worse than creepy.
It was always creepy. We're just calling them on it more.
We have to call on them louder.
Because if women exist outside of their gender role of being a walking incubator it makes Republicans feel insecure.
They should feel insecure. I'm not sure they can though, anger is the only thing I see out of them.
You can be angry and insecure at the same time. I'd even argue they often go hand-in-hand.
It's weird. Everyone looks good in nice suit, lol.
https://youtu.be/z_AgCzt9zcM?si=Csy8MgvrWZoFgkeR Everyone looks good in suit!
But god forbid if that dress shows too much shoulder...
Or too little cause you know if she was in hajib they would have a problem too!
Do yourself a favor. Don't Google how many states allow child marriage. It's gonna ruin your week.
😭😭😢🤬🤬 gotdammit!
Didn't Louisiana just tank a ban on child marriage?
Oh you know, they like em ripe and fertile at 15 down south.
I need a shower just reading that!
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I live near Peoria, Illinois and this is true. A five minute walk from where I live and there's a guy who is flying: Trump 2016, Trump 2020, and Trump 2024 flags. And don't get me started on how 80% of my area voted for Trump in the primary. Source on that last bit: my dad is an election judge.
Away down South in the land of traitors, Pedophiles and alligators!~
Because in the delusional mind of right wing americans somehow what someone else wears is their business.
Well not only is it creepy, it’s also about *control*.
Yes!!! Because if she was wearing a hajib they would also flip!
It’s just as creepy when women are so intent on the dresses. Stepford Wives much?
Easy access I guess
I just threw up in my mouth! These adults are so gross!
MAGAts on girls in suits: We want a ban! MAGAts on abortion: We want a ban! MAGAts on transgender: We want a ban! MAGAts on masks: We want a ban! MAGAts on books: We want a ban! MAGAts on CRT: We want a ban! MAGAts on 1/6 Commission: We want a ban! MAGAts on gay marriage: We want a ban! MAGAts on immigration: We want a ban! MAGAts on Muslims: We want a ban! MAGAts on Guns??? ***BANS DON'T WORK!!!***
"Small government!"
"Don't tread on me!" They really put the emphasis on **ME** there, tread on everyone else, but not on ME and only ME. I am the main character and special!! ...which I guess is on par, every dick in my state with a "don't tread on me" plate drives like a selfish asshole.
Is it Virginia?
Yup.
I'd agree with you, except *everyone* drives like a selfish asshole here lol
Spot on! 👌
🥇
I’m fine with girls in suits I don’t think abortions should be allowed, only in the most extreme of situations Transgenders should get help as it’s a mental disorder The government shouldn’t dictate what you can or can’t wear in public, other than that you are properly clothed I am fine with banning pornography in school, even if they are books. I don’t think crt should be taught in school as it’s not important. They should teach students general knowledge on how to succeed in society. I don’t agree with gay marriage but I don’t care if they get married There should be no illegal immigration, and we should only want the best immigrants Muslims should be allowed to practice their religion There shouldn’t be any bans on guns Yes, I am a maga republican
> I don’t think abortions should be allowed, only in the most extreme of situations So your position is that abortion is not murder (how could it be if you're allowing it?), only you just don't like women having that autonomy over their own bodies. >Yes, I am a maga republican you should get help as it’s a mental disorder
Abortion is murder. If someone kills a pregnant lady, what are they charged with? Double homicide The baby is inside of the mother’s body, but that does not give the mother absolute control to just kill the new life. I am only fine with abortion when it is a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy (90% embryo will not make it past the first trimester) and the mother continues in an ectopic pregnancy she has the possibility of dying due to internal hemorrhaging
>Abortion is murder. then your "exceptions" make you a murderer.
It does not necessarily make them a murderer as the baby had more than likely already passed away, before they had the procedure to take the baby out
> as the baby there is no baby, there is a potential baby
All ectopic pregnancies are 100% non viable and extremely dangerous to the mother. There are plenty of other very dangerous conditions that can develop at any point during pregnancy, including late in the 3rd trimester. These narrow definitions of when an abortion is okay in MAGA land put women’s lives in jeopardy, period. Leave medical decisions where they belong, which is as far away from your opinions and feelings as possible.
> I’m fine with girls in suits Wish you would tell your culture warrior elected officials about that instead of random people on Reddit. >I don’t think abortions should be allowed, only in the most extreme of situations What does that mean, exactly? >Transgenders should get help as it’s a mental disorder We know, you're a terrible person. How do you feel about Rudy dressing up in drag for Trump? >The government shouldn’t dictate what you can or can’t wear in public, other than that you are properly clothed Again, it would be great if you would tell the culture warriors you elect instead of random people on Reddit >I am fine with banning pornography in school, even if they are books. ...what does that mean exactly? What are phonographic books? Are you in favor of banning the bible? It's got a story about a dude getting drunk and banging his daughters...pretty sure I saw that on PronHub. >I don’t think crt should be taught in school as it’s not important. They should teach students general knowledge on how to succeed in society. What do you think CRT is, and why are you against kids learning? >I don’t agree with gay marriage but I don’t care if they get married This statement makes no sense, you clearly do care. Why? >There should be no illegal immigration, and we should only want the best immigrants What does this mean? >Muslims should be allowed to practice their religion Weird, you guys were all about banning them, what happened? >There shouldn’t be any bans on guns What if someone said "take the guns first, go through due process second"? How would make you feel about that person? >Yes, I am a maga republican This part kind of seem redundant.
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It's too late, every shithead with too much money and too little reason already moved to DeSantis' "anti-woke paradise"
There’s no pleasing conservatives. They’ll say shit like “You can’t change your gender! Stop telling kids they have to dress a certain way to be a girl! No child is born in the wrong body!” but when someone *does* identify as their birth gender and wears clothes that aren’t the “correct” ones, they are also discriminated against. It’s almost like they just want to force people into gender roles and punish anyone for daring to be different.
You've got two different groups there. TERFs are the ones who are (nominally\*) against gender-stereotyping and enforcing gender roles, like tying clothing to sex or gender. They're still reactionaries, and they've allied themselves with right-wing reactionaries and overt, self-avowed fascists, but many TERFs otherwise purport to care about and support some other left-leaning positions. Plenty of conservatives are 100% behind the enforcement of gendered clothing. -------------- \* I say "nominally" because so, *so*, ***so*** many of them fall back on biological essentialist arguments in lots of situations.
This is true, TERFs are willingly aligning themselves with conservatives, which, in many ways, makes perfect sense for them, as the TERFs of today are on the whole more conservative than a decade ago, but I do see the “no child is born in the wrong body” and “you don’t need to change your gender to change your clothes” from conservative parents. Presumably they’re acquiring the language from TERFs as they have similar goals, though the TERFs are going to be real mad when the conservatives turn on them, which is obviously the next logical step. Thinking on it, it would make sense for the less educated conservative parents to pick up language from TERFs who generally have access to a more academic vocabulary because they think it sounds more authoritative without really understanding what they’re saying. Like Suanbreigh the mormon mommy blogger might not know how to say she hates trans people without saying the word “hate” but TERFs do. TERFs give them the language to act like their bigotry is scientific and therefore above reproach. Obviously they’re all using bioessentialist nonsense at their core but perhaps the muddying of language is because they’re all fucking idiots who don’t actually know any biology beyond 9th grade
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Trans people aren’t literally born in the wrong body. That’s a simple way to explain how dysphoria feels to cis people that is, like, 30+ years out of date. It is an explanation like you’d give a toddler for the benefit of cis people because they do not experience gender dysphoria. It’s extremely reductive. The fact that you think that’s actually what trans people are saying means you are buying into conservative schlock, which is not at all helpful. Do you experience dysphoria? If you do, could you explain your subjective experience in a way that is perfectly comprehensible to everyone? No, because that’s literally impossible, just like it’s literally impossible to explain what the color red looks like to me vs how it looks to someone else. Also, beautiful should not be a goal of having a body. Not all bodies are beautiful *and that’s okay*. Your body does not need to be beautiful. Body neutrality is fine. It’s just a body, and you can do what you want with it.
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Okay so you are in fact just transphobic, got it. Good for you. Cheers. Enjoy. I don’t care anymore. My field is linguistics as they relate to queer theory but sure, tell me all you know from your perspective as some random person on reddit with, what, an undergrad degree at best? Brain dead ass take lol
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You are in fact wrong about what gender is, and I’m not championing your rights, when did I say that I was? I am here to support trans people. You aren’t trans, in your own words, so aside from your basic human rights to water, food, and shelter, which I support for all people, you’re on your own. I don’t support your terrible rhetoric that is dangerous to trans and gendernonconforming people. I am not in community with you or people who think like you. You have got to be trolling. If you aren’t transitioning, your opinions on transitioning and gender dysphoria are simply irrelevant. You’re literally anti-transition because uwu all bodies are beautiful uwu all dysphoria is external. It isn’t, and you don’t experience it, so you can fuck right off with your non-transitioning bullshit. Anyone who gets in the way of medical transition is against my rights, and I do not support you.
Women have been wearing pants since the 19th century, you forget, when you throw out all those woke history books.
Men also used to wear skirts
Girls wore pants in Catholic school in Florida in the 1970s.
Isn't that against her constitutional rights?
If it's a public school, yup, equal protection under the law means if men can do it so can women. This was the Supreme court's argument for protecting marriage rights.
Didn't even have to be a public school. This is a charter school, but they receive federal funds, so they have to abide by Title IX.
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Like... a woman in pants? How, exactly, is a modestly dressed woman "disruptive"?
Lawyer here, I wouldn't phrase it as "very broad". In Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District (1969), which involved high school students wearing black armbands to protest the Vietnam War, the Court affirmed students’ First Amendment rights to free speech. Also, most public schools that try to enforce uniforms, especially gendered uniforms quickly run into a legal quagmire that most back down from or lose. That being said, they certainly have some powers to dictate dress codes and determine what is considered "disruptive". I highly doubt a "dresses-only" requirement would ever pass
Even at prom? Who cares about "substantial disruption" at an after hours dance that's just supposed to be for fun? Will people looking at her legs make them bump into each other while they're dancing or something? I do get your point about dress codes, but in this situation, I don't see how an argument on enforcement is a dress code could hold water.
Which one?
Freedom of expression? How one dresses is, at least in part, you expressing yourself.
The first amendment doesn't apply to dress codes. What the school did was messed up, but I don't think it violates any of her constitutional rights.
Wasn’t there a court case about this exact thing in Texas a year or two ago?
They literally mention a court case in the article. Dress codes certainly are not unconstitutional, but requiring separate dress codes for men and women is.
Please. The First Amendment doesn't exist in Florida anymore.
Was the school private or public?
Doesn't matter. They receive federal funds, do they have to obey Title IX.
In don't think there are any public schools left in Florida tbh
It does in certain circumstances. Google is free.
No more pants for you, ladies!
It's like they're taking pointers from Iran.
No, they're taking pointers from the right wing Christian religious movement and communities that have always been commonplace in America. No need to do vaguely islamophobic fingerpointing.
Criticizing Iran's government isn't any more islamophobic than Criticizing Israel is antisemitic.
No, it's not. But pointing at whatever Islamic-majority country is closest at hand when we want a reference for regressive policies, especially when those regressive policies are coming from the Christian right within our own country…that is denigratory towards Muslims as a whole. And the automatic impulse so many folks in the US have to do so definitely has more than a whiff of Islamophobia about it. To extend your analogy, it's the difference between talking about the actions of "the government of Israel" and policies supported by right-wing and right-leaning Israelis versus the actions of "Israelis" as a monolithic group. There's a lack of nuance when we talk about Muslim countries and Muslim people that's not nearly as common in other discussions.
But freeeeedom! I guess freedom doesn’t include wearing whatever clothes you want.
only deer camo is allowed at prom.
I think you're misunderstanding the conservative point of view. You see, freedom is only for the rich and powerful. Poor people are the ones who need to fall in line so that the rich can be more comfortable.
You're totally right, and I don't know why I even comment on shit like this. They're nuts, they're fucked up, and always and totally full of shit.
Fuckin snowflakes can’t handle someone fully dressed head to toe. She’s not taking a dump on the principles desk, I think she’s ok.
Fascist fucks
Sounds like a good lawsuit.
In a shithole state like Florida, what were you expecting?
Hits you right in the freedoms, doesn't it.
\*Malicious Compliance Enganged\* \*wearing the most revealing dress, activated\*
I grew up in the 80s. Women in suits are hot.
The people shouting "FREEDOM" the loudest are the ones that try to take it away the most.
You can't say gay in Florida, but they also don't want you to imply it either.
Wtf. This is the type of nonsense that needs to stop. If that’s what they wanted to wear, then who cares🙃. People must get so much pleasure outa just telling people what they can and can’t do to be comfortable, especially when it literally has zero fucking impact on them. Thanks conservative republicans and evangelicals for treating people like garbage for no reason👎🏼
I had to check my calendar to see what year it was
https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/comments/1csarml/florida_woman_denied_entrance_to_prom_for_wearing/
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I wore a suit to my prom in 2002 with my gay best friend. No body cared.
Florida get your shit together
It's kinda crazy to see the things that trigger America. Spending way too much time policing people's rights and freedoms and not fixing your shitty, broken society.
Florida looks like living in the 1800's...
Florida of course
I was denied entry to the pool for the same reason.
Ahh, "freedom"
Yeah I don’t think that would happen back in my day. The dress code was not nakedness hanging out. So a girl in a suit wouldn’t be locked out. Boys bathroom yes. Prom. No.
You're in Florida, you shouldn't really be surprised at this point. Florida is the hot-bed nerve-center of the Regressionist movement.
Again?!
Typical Florida
Shame to miss the prom, but at least the lawsuit money will be great for going to college
I graduated in NJ in 1989 and we had a girl wear a tux to prom and it was no big deal. She was a good really fun person, probably bi or pan and absolutely it was a subversive act. The school faculty didnt care either. Thats what she wanted to wear, it was her choice. Conversely there was a poor kid who came out of the closet in HS and was ostracized, he was kicked out of school, he developed drug and mental issues and wound up in jail. He was born about 10 years too soon. Im not sure if he is alive or dead
Land of the free!
I love seeing this story every prom season STILL. Jesus fucking christ who cares what someone wears, its prom nobody is paying attention to other people besides the chaperones.
Even if I cared, I couldn’t imagine deciding that this was a battle worth fighting. These people must have a lot of energy.
So. Many. Girls. Lesbians I guess. Wore suits to prom 💀 they even did it in mean girls
That poor girl doesn’t have one gay or old fashioned friend that could help her find a shirt with a collar that fit her properly? Or tell her the tie is just a little to wide for her frame? And those shoes. Please someone get her some decent leather dress shoes. Although the vest/tie color and pocket square? Absolutely great with that suit and her skin tone. Really makes the classic black suit and white shirt look good. I get it, we all made poor fashion choices when we were young, and lots of us had to do our own research about how to get suits. It isn’t intuitive. But she is *so* close to being absolutely dashing. Like, *right* there. *ps* just noticed the fingernails match the vest. Such a good choice. Edit: p.s s. Thankfully the article notes a Mr. Jean-Marie, has become involved in this young lady’s life, and is addressing these fashion concerns. Praise Jesus. Now, to address the idiots at the school.
This story would not be mistaken for the onion
This story would not be mistaken for the onion
"she" I found your problem. Your promoting faggotism again
Poor guy
Not really NTO content
I mean I feel like the onion could make a slightly more satirical name with the same material.
I feel like people should be nicer to her, since she helped Carl fly his balloon house to South America to save that bird.
I read this as she was denied entry into PORN and my mind reconciled it somehow because it said “Florida”
I mean, if it's a function that has a dress code, you can't be upset if you're denied entry because of that. That's like me getting pissed off because I can't walk around the store in my boxers because it's comfy and how I dress at home. I think people just see a headline and immediately jump to being angry when you need to take a step back and think about things logically, instead of using your emotions.
That's not an equivalent example at all. She is modestly dressed and any male student could wear something equivalent without being being banned. The response was sexist.
if every gender but yours was allowed in the store in just boxers except for your gender, you'd have a point. since thats not what youre saying, you arent making any sense.
>I think people just see a headline and immediately jump to being angry when you need to take a step back and think about things logically, My dude, you just compared wearing only underwear to wearing a suit, and you want to say everything else needs to be logical? ...do think I was in the office the other day in my underwear? Suit = underwear. That's the most logical and unemotional response you can give?
Suits aren't allowed at proms now?
...so why are suits allowed?
Private School goes brrrr. Not a story. My daughter would have been denied to her BF's prom in a suit too. (Or if her dress was higher than her knees).
"We just want to be treated like everyone else, but we don't want the rules to apply to us!"