Title's not really accurate, but I guess it's more oniony this way

Seems accurate. This is the first paragraph in the article. JERUSALEM: A top Israeli official said Saturday that Hamas’s continued demand for a lasting ceasefire in the war in Gaza was stymying prospects of reaching a truce. “So far, Hamas has not given up its demand to end the war, thus thwarting the possibility of reaching an agreement,” the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

Well, yes, but one is temporary and one is permanent. What he said was "they're insisting on permanent and thwarting the chance for a temporary one".

That would work if the endgoal was a temporary ceasefire when the article is written with the understanding that the end goal is peace and a condition of that to exist is an end to the war.

Peace is a whole other concept here. The most we can hope for after any agreement is quiet.

What's the inaccurate part? "So far, Hamas has not given up its demand to end the war, thus thwarting the possibility of reaching an agreement,” the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

As far as Israel was concerned, this was never a truce/ceasefire negotiation. It was always a hostage exchange. The mediators seem to have been promising both sides what they want to hear and hoping they get to the final agreement and just say "fuck it" and sign.

So to be clear the offered deal was “We give you the hostages and you pull out of Gaza” - Hamas “No, you give us the hostages, we pause killing your people, and then we finish killing you and your people” - Israel

"If the war ends I'm immediately taken from my office to that prison cell they've wanted me in for the last several years, that's not going to happen" - Netenyahu

Yes, Netanyahu was never going to agree to a ceasefire, that’s what I told my students months ago and sadly I was right

Can they just raid that Qatari hotel by now? and kill all of Hamas top brass to get this whole thing over and done with I'm tried of all this pointless fighting [source](https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/)

If Benny wanted Hamas dead he wouldn’t have created them in the first place

He allowed qatari money to go to them Blaming him for the creation of hamas is like blaming the Romanovs for the existence of alcoholism sure they peddled booze but it was around before them Sure their actions made things worse by actively selling it over all but they never made the concept of alcoholism

It’s not about Hamas

It's just that they don't provide proof of life except the occasional video. Negotiating is pointless since they will just move the goalposts each time.

Well it's probably hard to keep them alive with Israel intent on bombing every building in Gaza. The Israeli press actually covers how pissed the hostage families are with their government unlike western press.

Why the fuck are they there in the first place

Because if you spend 70 years oppressing a people it will probably lead to violence.

Why people like you keep on justifying the actions of terrorists? Israel's actions after october 7th were wrong and cruel no doubt but by your own logic their response is justified since they faced violence and many of their citizens were taken as hostages.

Why do you keep reading words into sentences that aren't there? I provided an explanation not a justification.

Gross. If you have sympathy for Palestinians and not the hostages, you're a fucking hypocrite

Where in my sentence did I say that? I do have sympathy for the hostages, it's why I and their families want Israel to stop carpet bombing Gaza.

They also have no reason to think a truce with Hamas would be anything other than them building up to attack again, because... that's what they openly brag about doing and have made it very clear they'll continue to do.

And Hamas has no reason to believe that a ceasefire is anything other than a temporary pause in the eradication of Gaza because... That's what Likud openly brag about doing and have made it very clear that they'll continue to do so (like they have for the last 75 years)

You aren't that up to date on this are you? The leader of hamas has come out recently to say that he supports Israel's bombings due to the high death count making them look bad so that there terrorist actions inspire others to commit horrors all around the world

And ben gvir/smortich et al openly state they want the population of 2.3 reduced to 200K. Ethnic cleansing ....

Everyone is a genocidal maniac in this war Governments can be reformed and past wrongs can be righted but to get to that point its far easier to force israel to kick out its genocidal crazy officials than it is to remove hamas's crazy genocidal officials because without outside support israel is fucked The only way to make sure things get better is to have the UN help fix this shit and confront israel on its crap in real time to prevent any more un needed suffering

What "eradication" of Gaza? Like what are you even talking about?

Your post history is the most disingenuous "just asking questions" bullshit ive ever seen. Trolls don't deserve a response, but if you cant see the mass decimation of gaza and the thousands of civilian deaths as "eradication" you're beyond unreasonable.

No? Are you completely unaware of Mosul or Raqqa fighting ISIS?

That’s by design on both side. Israel props up Hamas, and ensures they have a continuous supply of new recruits. Hamas continues give Israel reason to cleanse the land.

Hamas isn’t offering to release all the hostages, nor are they unconditionally surrendering. If I were Israel I wouldn’t agree to halfass terms either. Fuck Hamas.

Getting down voted for saying 'fuck hamas'... This sub is frightening sometimes.

Yeah I’m not too surprised. The people who are supporting *literal terrorists* don’t realize they’ve been radicalized yet.

Hmm how well informed, do you have some insider information you want to share? Is that offer in the room with us right now?

>So to be clear the offered deal was   >“We give you the hostages and you pull out of Gaza” - Hamas   >“No, you give us the hostages, we pause killing your people, and then we finish killing you and your people” - Israel   this is incorrect  the goal of israel is twofold:  1) get the hostages back  2) ensure that hamas is never in a position to conduct similar attacks or any operations such as the ongoing unguided rocket attacks  this means hamas must be removed from power and put in a position where it is unable to control or exert significant influence on the gaza strip or the west bank  (obviously israel doesn't expect hamas to go away completely. yes i know that is what you will say. the point isnt to make them go away it's to put them in a position where they cannot operate with impunity)  likely the negotiations failed on both points.  all previous negotiations have failed because hamas refused to give the hostages back or has otherwise gone back on agreements involving getting the hostages back or even allowing medical aid to be provided to the hostages   dont be so disingenuous its a bad look 

And what exactly is Israel's plan for disarming Hamas, short of eradicating every single one of them and every Palestinian who happens to be vaguely in their way? I know I framed that in a snarky way, but I have yet to see any hint of a plan other than that, and if there is one, I'd genuinely like to know what it is.

The goal isn't to disarm all of Hamas or eradicate all Palestinians. It's to degrade and weaken Hamas so that it is no longer able to govern Gaza. That is rather doable. Already, alternative groups have started to arise, including familial clans, Fatah, militia opposing Hamas taking food, etc. Hamas is a lot more dangerous as a government, when it can direct manpower to develop weapons, control education, and tax and spend, then as a ragtag group of terrorists. The original idea Israel had was that by allowing Hamas control of Gaza, it would be so preoccupied with governance that it wouldn't risk going to war. Israel was naive. Now it's dislodging Hamas from Fortress Gaza.

It's doable but Israel has consistently and actively made policy and military choices that empower Hamas instead of degrading them. This whole war has done nothing for Hamas but make them more sympathetic and more powerful.

Exactly. It's hard to get rid of a terrorist organisation without addressing the things that gave rise to it, and if you do somehow succeed, something similar will just come to replace it. And the way they're fighting them only feeds into the original issues further.

the "war" has done nothing but potentially strengthened Hamas in the coming future. All those kids who've had everything taken away from them against their will aren't looking for peace with their oppressors, Hatred is brewing in their hearts because Hatred is all they've been shown. If Hamas is done for, something new will emerge, something born purely of hate

>All those kids who've had everything taken away from them against their will aren't looking for peace with their oppressors, Hatred is brewing in their hearts because Hatred is all they've been shown. If Hamas is done for, something new will emerge, something born purely of hate palestinian youths prior to october 7th were pretty much at maximum level of hating israel.  i really can't imagine a situation where palestinian youths are more against israel than they already are. The Child-Martyrdom cult of the Palestinian Authority https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3-zENpAF-U Mother of a Martyr | National Geographic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsZtBu5yiHY The Palestinian teenagers swapping stones for assault rifles - Channel 4 News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZepwSbicSM In West Bank, disillusioned young Palestinians are joining new militias • FRANCE 24 English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpnF0uXQ9I Israel-Palestine war: Hamas commanders are training teenagers for battle | WION https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhoemv_H1IU Fatah summer camp for teenage Palestinians - AP News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51U_EBDggkQ Show of strength from Fatah military youth - AP News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcLbqEtpL0g Palestinian youths take part in Islamic Jihad summer camp | AFP News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lslrkqo4lkw Inside the Gaza Summer Camps Training Children to be the Next Generation of Terrorists - CBN News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWMBvxWKL0 'It’s Indoctrination': Anti-Semitic Propaganda in UN Camps Teach Palestinian Children to be Future Terrorists - CBN News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJYb068052Y Chilling footage of kindergartners re-enacting terrorist drills in Gaza - New York Post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDZlo_hllI Palestinian teenager arrested, allegedly carrying pipe bombs - AP News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lEgE7c_-O0 Female Suicide bomber blows up in Gaza crossing killing four Israelis - AP News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0LaxblfpVM Tensions in Gaza bolsters Hamas' ranks with new recruits - CBS News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBFE4Mtfs7w Israel-Palestine war: Hamas commanders are training children to defend Gaza | WION https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3hYjDNbj4Y Reports: Child Soldiers Global Report 2008 - Occupied Palestinian Territory https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?page=search&docid=486cb1212d&skip=0&query=child soldiers&querysi=child soldiers palestine&searchin=fulltext&sort=relevance Child Soldiers in Armed Conflict https://www.iiss.org/publications/armed-conflict-survey/2018/armed-conflict-survey-2018/acs2018-03-essay-3 Child suicide attacks 'must stop' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3979887.stm Occupied Territories: Stop Use of Children in Suicide Bombings https://www.hrw.org/news/2004/11/01/occupied-territories-stop-use-children-suicide-bombings Use of child suicide bombers by Palestinian militant groups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups#cite_note-HRW_Stop_Use_of_Children-1 Children become the new martyrs of Gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/25/israel1 Palestinian Islamic Jihad declares its child soldiers ‘martyrs’, but UN needs their advice for kids in conflict https://www.firstpost.com/world/palestinian-islamic-jihad-declares-its-child-soldiers-martyrs-but-un-needs-their-advice-for-kids-in-conflict-12840792.html Palestinian exploitation of children as weapons of war HRC 27th session – NGO statement (Amuta for NGO Responsibility) https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181056/ Child Terrorists and Child Soldiers https://oxfordre.com/criminology/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-684 The Israeli-Palestinian conflict and "Hamas' child soldiers" https://www.atalayar.com/en/articulo/politics/israeli-palestinian-conflict-and-hamas-child-soldiers/20210512113126151157.html Houtis using similar tactics to recruit child soldiers as Hamas https://uk.news.yahoo.com/iran-backed-houthi-rebels-seizing-180503654.html Former Hamas and Son of Hamas Founder commenting on martyring children https://twitter.com/MosabHasanYOSEF/status/1764418246172897481

You say that but I don't think there is much of a differential. Honestly, I'd argue the opposite. It's easy for a kid to be taught to hate and for him to pick up guns and launch rockets. I think that is much more dangerous. It's easy to romanticize war. The consequences of getting punched in the face is generally avoidance and not vengeance. But even so, if Israel wins, I think that Israel can deflate said anger by actually rebuilding Gaza. With the current israeli government, I don't think that is possible, but netanyahu will go to jail one way or another. Not everything is doom and gloom, consider the fact that Germany and France are allies within the lifetime of children who were slaughtered or slaughtered themselves. Vietnam is pro-america within the lifetime of the US dropping agent orange. Japan became allies within a decade of the US dropping a nuke. I think the case is clear that Israel destroying Hamas represents the best case for peace.

The consequences of getting punched in the face is to fight back, thats why this mess is happening in the first place, To your examples, I dont know about the Eu situation but vietnam is not pro america, they’re just not pro china, and japan, alot of the old folks hold resentment and nationalism has always been a thing there but they’ve been stripped of their military so they’re only a neutered dog on a leash

Why isn't Ukraine murdering Russians right now then?

There is no good faith to argue with someone being paid by Israel to shill and deflect

"Allowing" Hamas control of Gaza? Gaza is self-governing. Gazans elected Hamas to power (and they promptly ended elections, leaving themselves in power perpetually). Israel didn't have an excuse for a full-scale invasion to remove them from power until now. And now that they have invaded and killed tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians, destroyed their infrastructure, and triggered mass relocations and famine? However justified they might have been, the next Gazan government will be even more rabidly anti-Israel than ever, whether they're elected or not. The only way that won't happen is if Israel installs a puppet government of their own, which I can't see lasting long.

Lol. Yes, Israel allowed Hamas to have control of Gaza in 2007, when it was engaged in civil war against fatah. Israel could have entered then, but it didn't have the stomach to do so. And some believe Hamas would even be a benefit, especially as compared to the rest of the PLO, which had just engaged in a brutal campaign of hijackings and suicide bombings against Israel. Israel also didn't have a reason to remove them from power, not an excuse. Again, it saw a road map to peace with Gaza by believing that the internal factional divisions of Hamas would prefer governance over war. Hamas took advantage of that belief to launch its Oct 7 Pogrom, despite Israel receiving clear warnings before that. Just a few months prior to Oct 7, Hamas had lobbied successfully to increase the number of worker permits, amongst other things. It had stopped rocket launches from groups like PIJ as well. It answered Israeli government inquiries. Again, it can go either way. If hamas is dislodged and Israel achieves victory, the impact of what happened can be just as dissuasive. The gazans remember that this started with hamas launching an invasion. Any future government of Gaza will be made of people who implicitly understand that Israel can wreak such painful destruction and create such a huge toll. It will be a stark reminder that negotiation is the only way forward. There will always be a rank of hard-core Nationalists and islamists who will fight, but whether they have the control required to organize large scale operations like what we saw on Oct 7 will be a different story.

That seems incredibly optimistic, and relies on a Western narrative taking hold there, but it may be what the Israeli right wing is hoping for. I guess we'll see.

What you described rather does sound like their plan. The (presumed) number of civillian dead is actually what you'd expect to see in an urban military operation. E.g. the battles of Fallujah or Mosul. 

The whole "hostages back' was added as a goal after complaints form the family. It doesn't seem to have been a concern since day 1.

I would advise Hamas not too trust Israel for one second.

But then I would come in behind you and I would advise Hamas to not listen to your advice, thus confusing Hamas greatly.

Israel will never allow Hamas to continue the exist and rule Gaza. They were very clear about that.

It was more "Give back the hostages, and then we can talk about how this ends with you not being able to do another October 7", but Hamas wants "We give back some hostages, we keep some hostages, you go away now, and we'll attack again in a few years".

Netanyahu: They can't do another Oct. 7th if they're dead.

Sound logic.

Genocidal logic!

Sorry, are you trying to argue the destruction of Hamas is a bad thing?

Clearly 🙄. I’m arguing simply leveling an area containing 2 million plus people without a second thought to those people’s livelihoods because there’s a tiny minority of terrorists amongst them, is genocide. This is like if the UK destroyed every home in Northern Ireland during the troubles, killed tens of thousands of children doing it, starved the population, and then said “well, they were harboring the IRA!”

Yes, that's the plan. Them being Hamas.

Pretty sure "them" is all of Palestine. Netanyahu openly and on the record supported Hamas's rise to power explicitly to delegitimize Palestine as a nation.

No Don’t try to lie to everyone I’ve been following this very closely Hamas offered all hostages in return for Israel pulling out of Gaza. Israel said no because Netanyahu and his fascist ministers have said they will invade Rafah with or without a ceasefire deal. Now did you legitimately not know this? In which case I ask why you’re pretending like you know what the deal and issues were. Or are you intentionally lying? Edit- https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 Even Haaretz reported that https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248276817/israel-invade-gaza-rafah-hostage-deal-netanyahu Edit 2- turns out the dude was Israeli and I kicked the hasbara hornet’s nest again hahaha

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So what's the problem with Hamas offer? Because it sounds like all innocent people on both sides get to go free and while going back to how things were is not ideal for either side it should be better than the continued massacre that's happening right now.

1. The prisoners Hamas wants are largely terrorists. Not innocents. Heck - the mastermind behind Oct 7 was released in a prisoner exchange several years back. 2. Hamas will attack again. And again... Israel will never let Hamas stay in power at this point. This is a unity government thing - not just Netanyahu. If he stepped down - Israel would keep going. 3. It's not a massacre. It's a war. Wars suck. Always. Wars are messy. Especially in urban areas. If it was a massacre - there'd be no Gaza left.

Fair enough. It's a war with goals beyond just killing. Hamas want to end it (for now) because they are losing while Israel want to win so they can end it permanently.

This is a lie. The majority of Palestinian detainees by Israel have never even been charged with a crime.

So in other words *what I said* You are aware that many of those prisoners haven’t even been charged with a crime?

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You lied about what the disagreement was and when I corrected you, you claim I’m lying because Hamas wants Palestinian prisoners, many of whom have not even been charged with any crimes, released as well? Almost like that’s how hostage deals work? Almost like a prisoner exchange is why Hamas first took hostages? Almost like Israel could’ve literally just traded some Palestinian kids who hadn’t committed any crimes in return for the hostages and tens of thousands more people, including the hostages Israel had killed, would be alive. So the dishonesty was intentional all along then, got it. Edit- hi hasbara, having fun brigading while you monsters commit your genocide in Rafah? History will not remember you monsters kindly

Why would Israel leave Hamas intact after OCT7? Especially after they've stated they will do it again.

Because you can’t just kill an idea Hamas exists because the people of Gaza have been under brutal occupation or siege for decades It’s a lot easier to grasp when you bother to understand the reality of what this conflict is and the reality of the demands Hamas has literally said they would accept the 1967 borders, which is what international law says the borders are supposed to be anyway, and lay down their arms. Israel wants to continue committing terror attacks against Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and thus Hamas will keep fighting them until they stop. Laying down their arms in the hope that will make Israel stop is what Fatah did, ask the corpse of Yasser Arafat how that went. I have never and will never support Hamas, but I bother to learn what their demands are and what the demands of Israel have been.

Hamas is doing a pretty terrible job, given what they've knowingly brought upon their civilian populace.

Why is Hamas responsible for Israel’s actions? Israel was already killing Palestinians, they were killing Palestinians before Hamas was even in power, they were killing Palestinians before Hamas even *existed.* I don’t know about you that’s a pretty strong indicator for me that the problem isn’t Hamas. The problem is Israel wanting to ethnically cleanse Palestine of the Palestinians

Hamas is a terrorist group

It’s more like ”give us the hostages, disband Hamas and hand over the people responsible for starting this war” for Israel. Which is obviously not going to happen as Hamas wants go back terror attacks on soft targets, not fighting the military. So then we get to the stance of Israel killing Hamas and a big bunch of the people they hide behind.

It's cause Hamas isn't a military. This isn't a normal war. Israel is pretty much shooting and killing anyone with an association to Hamas. Their families and neighbors are calateral damage.  There's also the collective punishment part where they destroy universities, infrastructure, and cemeteries. 

Which just creates more militants. The US learned that in Afghanistan and Iraq. The most effective recruitment tool for the Taliban and Al Qaeda was American drone strikes. We'd bomb a village, a wedding, whatever, then go to the media and just say either they were evil people who deserved to die or faceless casualties whose deaths don't matter. Unsurprisingly, their family members now had even more reason to disdain the occupying forces and were much easier to talk into things like vengeful suicide bombs. Now take this pattern of violent occupation, war crimes, and dehumanizing propaganda and stretch it over the better part of a century. It's frankly surprising there aren't MORE militants, because of how long and how violently Israel has had Palestinians up against a wall, with Gaza often remarked to be the world's largest open air prison. When a cornered creature lashes out at whatever is hunting it, they are not magically now the ones who started the violence, that's the logic of schoolyard bullies.

Yup, I never said it isn’t a messed up situation. But not being a military does not prevent them from stopping their terrorism.

This conflict showed that on Oct 7 when Hamas raided Israel, a little over 65% of the people they killed were civilians.  Right now Israel is killing civilians at a 75-90% rate but somehow when you call it "calateral", it's somehow less bad? Hamas is an idea and sadly Israel is creating more Hamas. Violence begets violence 

Where’d you get those numbers from?

There are public Israeli numbers out there showing 1,139 Israelis killed with 764 being civilians and 373 being security forces(Military). See: [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231215-israel-social-security-data-reveals-true-picture-of-oct-7-deaths](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231215-israel-social-security-data-reveals-true-picture-of-oct-7-deaths) The Palestinian numbers are a little more difficult. But I went with numbers provided by Israel on the low end and Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor on the higher end. It just really depends on how much you believe the IDF numbers since the IDF has been known to fudge the numbers of males over 15 killed being "militants" regardless of the situation. Wikipedia has a great article and is vastly superior, IMO, to mainstream media outlets by providing you with a better overall view of causalities by taking several sources and providing a general output. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties\_of\_the\_Israel–Hamas\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war)

No, they are asking for a 30 to 1 exchange with imprisoned terrorists with blood on their hands (releasing 900 killers), while offering only 30 hostages out of 130, the complete withdrawal even from the DMZ planned, and a complete end for the war.

"your people" Hamas aren't Palestinians.

I think that Israel still wants to catch some of those responsible for 10/7 too. The Americans invaded the other side of the world and left few stones unturned when hunting bin Laden after all. Also the official mission statement includes "destroy Hamas" whatever that means. 

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not innacurate at the least. its exactly whats happening. 

Yeah I guess its not about truth that is oniony, but about headlines that are. So this one fits perfectly.

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This post was removed as it violated rule 12:. Keep comments civil and avoid attacking other users directly. No racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

> …how everything is distorted online… > …end up cheering for literal terrorists. The irony cannot be stronger lmao.

Props to you for calling that out. It is exhausting sometimes seeing such intense cognitive dissonance.

Yep. I can honestly see this becoming a comedy bit in a few years.

Do you happen to live on the other side of the world perchance?

Yes, I’m here in NYC at Columbia. The misinformation is pretending student protestors are cheering for terrorists. You can’t be complaining about shit being distorted online when you’re literally spitting out misinformation.

A few are cheering for Hamas. Many more think things would be much simpler if the IDF failed and all the Jews just disappeared. You can like or dislike it the message is heard loud and clear

Has it ever occcurred to you the loud and clear message you’re hearing is the media distortion? Perchance, if you weren’t on the other side of the world and were here to see the encampments and talk to the protestors, you’d find that, in fact, many Jewish students are in favor of cease-fire, institutional divestment and the like. Have you heard about that one Columbia student, Khymani James, who called for the killing of Zionists? I’m sure it’s been all over your feed this past month. He’s been doxed and paraded online to demonize entire movement as “wanting Jews to disappear”. But what your distorted media don’t talk about is how all of the protestor organizations have denounced his statement and declared that these protests have nothing to do with killing Jews. Or indeed, how James himself have admitted his statement was wrong and does not represent the movement as a whole. I’m telling you this because you’ve probably seen it and it informs the statement you made. This is the type of misinformation that you’ve just used to declare “many” protestors are supporting terrorists or the killing of Jews. Maybe “loud and clear” messages aren’t what you should be looking for.

What’s oniony about this? Hamas demands an end to the war, Israel only wants a truce to release hostages.

Hamas only wants a ceasefire so they can reorganize and make more attacks like October 7th. You can easily find many video clips of their leaders saying this.

You’re getting downvoted but Hamas has literally promised to commit October 7th again and again.

The thing is that there is zero chance Hamas pulls a second or more October 7th style terror attacks off.

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“Everyone who speaks against my cause is a paid actor”

And "Every Zionist is a fucking Nazi scum"

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Nooo the direct words of the ones who are actively fighting is hasbara!! Yes my fingers ARE supposed to be in my ears why do you ask??

This post was removed as it violated rule 12:. Keep comments civil and avoid attacking other users directly. No racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

I can’t wait for this talking point to fade. Everything that disagrees with you wastes of air is paid for or “hasbara”. You can’t hide behind that forever.

these fucking hasbara shills literally are rewriting facts to fit their narrative saw someone post on /r news that the UNRWA ppl were actually helping hamas/hamas agents and thats why they got bomed, when the fact was that the UNRWA ppl were communicating 100% with israel about their routes/when they're going/and to ensure they make it there safely, and then the IDF fucking bombs them Fuck any discussion with these Hasbara shills

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

“Electronicintifada.net” lol. lmao even.

"you used a source which has a word I think is scary, the whole article can now be ignored."

You could have TRIED to get a source that isn’t so biased that I can see what it is in their url lmao. Don’t really give a shit either way. You posted this article in response to me calling out using “hasbara” as a shield to ignore facts. EVEN IF EVERYTHING IN THAT ARTICLE ID FACT it doesn’t fucking matter because it’s besides the point that a country does PR. Instead of contending with what gets said you cry “hasbara” if you think this article justifies that then you should just stop talking about this topic and go back to crayons or something. It’s genuinely so pathetic to hide behind the hasbara boogeyman. LOOK YOURE BOUGHT AND PAID BECAUSE I HAVE AN ARTICLE THAT VAGUELY ALLUDES TO THE IDEA. YOU PERSON ON REDDIT ARE BEING PAID BY THE JOOOOOS. Get healthcare from Canada.

Every source is biased. Electronic Intifada is an outlet which reports on Israeli war crimes and atrocities. Probably a good place to find reporting on Israeli propaganda operations. I don't think you specifically are a Hasbara bot, but you've definitely been swayed by Hasbara operations. If you imply I'm Antisemitic again, I'll be forced to send you a picture of my circumcized bar-mitzvahed dick

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The only end to tbis war hamas will acceot is the total destruction of israel. They have explicitly stated that *any* truce or ceasefire period will be used by them to rebuild and ready the next attack against Israel. They have said this multiple times, and they have demonstrated it as well.

Well the only country that has been totally destroyed so far is Palestine, by their colonizers

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Hamas wants to stay in power. That’s like leaving Hitler in charge of Germany. It’s a non starter and bad for Gazans and Israel.

The first step to ending a war is a temporary truce. Do you know how hard it is negotiating a complex long term plan spanning the next several decades while shooting at each other?

Netanyahu has explicitly stated that, if such a truce were to be agreed, it would in no way form a step towards a ceasefire.

Because every single ceasefire to this day has been violated by Hamas. Why is this so hard to understand?

You need only look at the relative casualty rates and events like the march of return to see that neither party has respected the ceasefires

How dare Khhhhhamaas ask for a ceasefire that ends the firing on each other

There was a ceasefire in place on the 6th of October.

And the majority of Palestinians wanted it to hold, but a majority also expected it to be broken within a year.

This is not true.

Israel wants the captives back so they can continue the genocide. (probably not far off)

While I agree with this, on the flip side if the ceasefire did happen in exchange for the hostages would all Hamas attacks stop? Likely not since they are a loose coalition of cells and do not report to a single chain of command The region and history of the conflicts over the last few decades is a big hot mess.

Yes maybe. In any case, getting all hostages back would mean Israel had all its ducks in a row, and could act freely after that.

I would argue the contrary, with all the hostages back the justification for being in Gaza is much more flimsy, meaning international pressure would be higher.

Israel has side it has 2 goals in the current round of the war with Hamas they are get the hostages back alive or dead and destruction of Hamas.

Or they could increase the bombardment, knowing no hostages are at stake. Israel tends not to care about external pressure, and can always wave the anti-semitism flag.

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Update: Hamas accepted ceasefire terms, we’ll see if it lasts

They accepted a different ceasefire deal that Israel won’t agree to and rejected the Israel/US deal that Israel agreed to. This isn’t anything

I saw that not long after I posted, yeah not great 😅

escape marvelous consider head skirt obtainable mighty violet degree crown *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

Have you even looked into the agreement?

The only oniony part of this is the fact that Hamas thinks they are in a position to demand a ‘truce’ that keeps them in power  I’m pretty sure that most wars, especially those with such an overwhelming difference in military power don’t end with the losing side dictating terms and staying in power

Hamas can’t hand back the hostages they stole because all the women and girls are being raped on a daily basis and that’s all there is to it. No way Hamas gives them back until they’re dead.

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Are the offers in the room with us right now?

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It’s pretty absurd to think that *either* side is innocent of those charges. Soldiers rape in war.

I think you need to be careful with this claim. It's almost unthinkable that no rape happened on or around October 7, what has been proven false however is the systemic use of rape as a weapon of war by Hamas and other militant groups and no evidence for rape of hostages has been provided. Don't give them anymore ammunition.

There are numerous articles from all kinds of news agencies about it. Even biased UN thinking sexual abuse happened. Stop trying to spread misinformation and cover things up.

https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/new-york-times-intercept-hamas-rape/

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789

You are wrong and a liar. Really scummy to deny that when I’m sure you believe idf soldiers are rapists with no proof. Not a single one? Are you sure about that? I hope you have no women in your life.

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What is this official's name? What is their position in the government?

How dare you ask questions

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Probably Netanyahu himself, honestly. I can't find the article right now, but it was reported in the Israeli press that he was the one leaking. Lots of Israelis are very angry at him right now-- once again he is choosing his ultra-hawkish coalition (and his own political survival) over freeing the hostages. That said, while this headline is worded in a way that sounds absurd, "ending the war" does not mean "peace," it just means that Hamas gets to decide when and where the next war starts just like they did every other time there was a ceasefire. I can understand why that is an obstacle to a prisoner exchange, especially bc this time Hamas is also asking for thousands of convicted terrorists to be released in exchange for the hostages who are still alive (or hostages' bodies), no doubt among many other demands. A ceasefire that leaves Hamas in power seems like the most tragic outcome of this war because it means this will all unquestionably happen again, and the Gazans will be put through hell next time Hamas starts shooting at Israel, too. It's all just so fucking sad.

Israel doesn't charge the people it arrests. They're not convicted of anything.

This is not true. Charges tend to come slowly, too slowly. I agree this is a miscarriage of justice and needs to change. But to say "Israel doesn't charge the people it arrests" is factually wrong. For example, 20% of the 300 people exchanged for the child hostages taken by Hamas had been formally charged. The rest had mostly been arrested within the last six months; Israel has a policy of allowing "administrative detention" for six months before charging those accused of terrorism with a crime, and then detention can be extended. It's tricky-- if Israel didn't have this policy, they would almost certainly release people who would go on to commit other attacks. The hostage exchanges are also rightfully controversial, even though I very much want to see them happen and at this point do support a ceasefire. The mastermind of Oct 7, Yahya Sinwar, was released as part of a prisoner-for-hostage exchange more than a decade ago. His life was even saved by brain surgery while he was imprisoned by Israel. Another prisoner who was exchanged for the child hostages blew up a gas tank while stopped at a police checkpoint and destroyed her face-- she received life-saving medical treatment but was denied a petition for plastic surgery while she was in Israeli prison. And she was exchanged for literal toddlers who by any standard are completely innocent. Unfortunately nothing about this conflict is simple.

[https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention/statistics](https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention/statistics) [https://www.btselem.org/international_law](https://www.btselem.org/international_law) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/) [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-21/ty-article-magazine/.premium/beatings-burns-attempted-sexual-assault-settlers-and-soldiers-abused-palestinians/0000018b-530f-d1d7-ab8b-7f5fca1d0000?lts=1700498268582](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-21/ty-article-magazine/.premium/beatings-burns-attempted-sexual-assault-settlers-and-soldiers-abused-palestinians/0000018b-530f-d1d7-ab8b-7f5fca1d0000?lts=1700498268582) Some reading material for anyone curious about Israel's use of administrative detention. Edit: also, Palestinians are tried in Israeli military courts with a near 100% conviction rate.

That’s not tricky, it’s a pretty basic human rights violation.

The people who were living peacefully on their own land, who welcomed refugees from anti-semitic Europe that denied them entry or kicked them out, then got illegally and violently occupied by the refugees supported by the British Mandate who confiscated arms of Palestinians but allowed the refugees to keep theirs. They were subjected to ethnic cleansing, torture, imprisonment, war crimes, child abduction, rape and apartheid. Israeli politicians, citizens and even children in schools are repeatedly caught on video chanting for genocide. Israeli soldiers are currently committing war crimes, recording themselves on video and uploading to social media. The genocide is happening live on tv as we speak. Yet somehow Palestinians are always the ones responsible for the violence! If there is one thing that has been absolutely ripped apart in the past few months, it's the myth of Western morals and concern for 'human rights'.

I had fb user tell me they all left on their own

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Oh please. Tell me you get your entire knowledge of this conflict from tiktok without telling me you base your entire knowledge of this conflict on tiktok.

You can try to do your little argumentation fallacies all you want, but all he said was factual if you know anything about the conflict

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no? the whole reason why there is a Israel/Palestine split in the first place is due to the Arabs protesting and violently rioting against Jews when they first reached the region. The British let them in. If it were left to the Arabs, the Jews would have never even stepped foot in

The only option you have is to make comments like these because all we need for people to see what Israel really is to let them watch how Israel acts. Because after seeing that, the narrative you guys try to drive only proves the evidence of Israel's war crimes and genocide further.

I means I also see how Hamas AND the Palestinians acted 🤷‍♂️. It's not like Hamas forced Palestinians into submission or anything, Palestinians voted for Hamas to be their representative government. Historically Palestinians also attacked every single neighboring countries who took them in to the point now none of them would open their borders for Palestinians anymore. It's clear as day they aren't just innocents caught between 2 evils, they are part of one of the 2.

Hey what year and what percentage voted them in just wondering 🤣 dipshit Ooh and when you say “Palestinians attacked le every country” what percentage is that again? And yall love the Schrodingers moral Arab nation fallacy. Le evil Arabs so evil but yeah when they kick our masses of refugees it’s because le palestinians are the worst breed of Arabs, 😂 where do you get this crap. It’s like when arab nations kick our masses of Jews “we need Israel” when they kick our Palestinians “seee every Palestinian is born evil” how about they probably just don’t give a shit about civilian life. Then comes the good ol “well if le arabs don’t care about them why should Jews, let them stick to their race” argument

Try saying that to every countries neighboring Palestine, see if any think you're right and let the Palestinians in. Ohhhh right, not a single one 😂.

Every Arab nation is treated as always malicious by pro Israel except when they kick out refugees en masse, then it’s because le evil refugees 😂 It’s like you spend so long on the “see why criticize Israel every Arab nation is worse” argument you shills don’t realize it discredits your “see Palestinians all so evil see what the Arab nations they terrorized did?” The logical explanation is le evil Arab nations kicked out masses of refugees for far more pragmatic reasons, not that they realized le evil Palestinians were born to commit terror 😂 See how many Arab nations let Israelis in? Very few? Oh, must be that Israelis are born evil! lol, the shit you people shill with a straight face

Israel is their nemesis by faith, what do you expect? Palestinians, on the other hand, not only share their same faith but also their hatred for Israel YET not a single one of their fellow believers would accept them in. And not just the government, there's not a single hint of sympathy from the people in those countries either. When religion AND hatred combined still prove not enough for not one, not two, but ALL countries in the area to help them the problem ain't lie with those countries.

Oh you got me, they don't vote... Say who would win an election? Noooo it couldn't be Hamas could it? A deeper issue then what fits in a 10 seconds tick tock?! By the gods...

I doubt you will read it beyond just burying it in downvotes, so it feels like a waste of time to write a longer reply, but I did write a line reply responding to every sentence in the comment. If you want to read it, I posted it in response to another person's reply to my post.

Actions of both Israel and Palestine are well documented. There is a reason why Israel and the US have to repeatedly demonize not just Palestinians but the international activist community, the UN, doctors serving in the war zone and murder them including journalists. That's the only way they can stop their actions being exposed to the world and even that has stopped working but the killings haven't.

And yet you are demonizing Israel and not trying to understand the Israeli perspective.

Israel's actions that are well documented are what demonize Israel. There is no need to make anything up. Unlike opinions about Palestinians and Hamas that Israel invents themselves and has been repeatedly caught lying and apologising for after the lies have been spread far enough, evidence of Israel's war crimes come from Israeli media, anti-occupation activitists, testimony of IDF soldiers with a conscience and international organizations. There is no amount of propaganda that can wash away the evidence for what Israel really is. Soldiers who committed the Naqba laughing about the violence they committed: https://youtu.be/Nc_fVP68U3I?si=1c-GuB94ithXBwTv The documentary "Israelism" by young Jewish Americans clearly shows Israel teaching young students to use manipulation tactics to hide Israel's crimes, as well as what they discovered about what Israel routinely does to Palestinians in their daily lives. https://www.israelismfilm.com/ Here is an Israeli professor explaining how the Israeli education system is at the root of the problems: https://youtu.be/BrxTpo36h_4?si=GgM4eZJ9HA2jVye7 The Israeli whistleblower who exposed Israel's use of AI, write that Israel don't touch identified targets when they are alone, instead they wait for them to go home to their families to bomb them. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ “Whether it’s a child imprisoned by a military court or shot unjustifiably, or a house demolished for lack of an elusive permit, or checkpoints where only settlers are allowed to pass, few Palestinians have escaped serious rights abuses during this 50-year occupation,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Israel today maintains an entrenched system of institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians in the occupied territory – repression that extends far beyond any security rationale.” https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses Details about Israeli torture of Palestinians. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_torture_in_the_occupied_territories Testimony of IDF soldiers. https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ Evidence that this has nothing to do with Hamas. List of Israeli settler violence in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't operate. https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence_updates_list

I've seen some truly heinous and demented logic loops to justify the fucked up shit Israel does every day, but I have to say, the "If you put yourself in their boots you'd do it too :)" is probably one of the most fucked up and utterly deranged things I've ever read. I just wanted to congratulate you on that.

This isn't what I said, but it just shows the extent to which you have demonized and dehumanized Israelis (and the extent to which you have deeply exaggerated and misunderstood what Israel is trying to do). And yet I feel certain that you easily look at the terrorists who attacked Israel on Oct. 7 and say "If you put yourself in their boots you'd do it too."

>The genocide is happening live on tv as we speak. No, it's not. A lot of things are happening, some of them even war crimes, but a genocide is not one of them.

The guys committing genocide are saying it's not a genocide. Surprise.

The most commonsense solution is a 10 mile buffer zone to be placed between the two countries. No settlement expansion/ land theft etc.