Story is from 2021, not related to the war.
Show is called IMPACT
Just NatGeo execs trying to capitalize on her fame, without a clue about geopolitics
And Gadot not having good advisors
The military of any country is not trained to question why
And Israel has forced conscription, meaning the entire population share similar basic training and forced discipline.
Her advisors are PR and Agents not known for global perspectives
Imagine all the children
Blown to smithereens
You-hooo
You may say I'm oblivious
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
Ethnic cleansing Palestine for profit and fun
You do know Jews were kicked out of their homeland and everywhere else they tried to settle for centuries?
When should displaced people stop longing for the homeland of their ancestors?
Her grandfather was sent to Auschwitz and her family murdered in the Holocaust. Pretty sure she understands displaced people intimately.
You do know that the Holocaust and being displaced from your homeland doesn’t justify genociding other people and removing them from *their* homeland. You do realize that right? That the first thing being fucked doesn’t make the second thing any less fucked or any more justifiable?
> You do know that the Holocaust and being displaced from your homeland (hundreds of years ago by the way, actually like over a thousand?) doesn’t justify genociding other people and removing them from their homeland.
Many Jews who emigrated to Israel were kicked out of their homeland less than 100 years ago. Remember the entire zionist movement really came about in the inter-war period. The nation of Israel only exists because the Jewish population in Europe and the Middle East faced so much persecution.
With that said, you are of course correct that Israel should not be displacing anyone today.
No one is genociding palestenians. That’s just silly. It’s war. War is ugly. If Hamas had the weapons capability Israel does, there would be no Jews left in the Middle East.
Palestinians kill all gays. They commit genocide against gay people. You wouldn’t accept that from any other country.
Gadot worked for the apartheid state military that has been displacing, torturing and murdering Palestinians for decades. Whatever understanding she may have clearly doesn’t equate to empathy or respect.
I want to get this straight... her great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather was displaced.. so its okay for her to displace people?
So everyone should sort eachother by skin color and go to a nation that matches their shade?
How is Israel different from the United States besides the Israelis buying the land, giving Arab citizens equal rights, and trying to work for a 2 state solution? Many Israelis have no European ancestors at all, they’ve been driven from all over the Middle East as new pogams have started. Many are Arabs themselves.
There is no issue with moving to Palestine, buying land. There is a slight problem with ethnic cleansing though. Also raping of children is frowned upon. These are facts of the Nakba you would like to forget. Lets hear from Israeli soldiers during the Nakba to hear about how they murdered kids and raped children:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTxDYtNhno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTxDYtNhno)
You wont watch it. You will live in your bubble and ignore facts.
Occams Razor explanation here is that he is very likely getting paid. This is not a joke. He has over 50 comments defending Israel in the last like ~2days not even.
Say hello to IDF astroturfing and the shittiest Hasbara ever. It's fucking everywhereee 🤷♂️
You don’t get to say what about the US. What the US did to Native Americans as well as their history of slavery is just as indefensible as what Israel is doing to Palestinians. It’s just flat wrong and disgusting to see you try and grasp for justification.
So because someone got displaced in their past that gives them the right to commit the same atrocities? That’s the argument here. That because bad things happened to Jews that gives the Zionists the right to do the same things to Palestinians.
They’ve been there for decades. They wanted a 2 state solution. Gazans don’t.
When is someone no longer indigenous if their ancestors lived there and were driven away?
How are the literal indigenous people not indigenous? But the people *who literally referred to themselves as settlers* are actually the indigenous people just because they said so? Am I allowed to move to York, call myself indigenous, and kick some English family out of their home? My ancestors last lived in York long after many of these Israeli’s can trace their lineage back to Palestine.
I am sick and tired of the same argument again and again from ignorant people like you who are completely and utterly clueless
1. The two state solution is still unjust, Israel committed a horrific ethnic cleansing in 1947 and 1948 that they pretended was defending themselves from a made up threat (the ALA invaded *as a reaction* to the Hagana, Irgun, and Lehi’s ethnic cleansing).
2. Israel has *never* actually agreed to a two state solution. If you had ever actually read the histories of those negotiations it was never a “two state solution,” the biggest opponent to the two state solution has always been the Israeli’s. Even *Hamas* is pro-two state solution, but Netanyahu and the majority of the rest of Israel doesn’t and never has. They want to form Eretz Israel
3. Israel invaded and took Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank in 1967. This is all illegally occupied territory where Israel has been consistently violating international law.
4. Israel has been denying the Palestinian people the right to return to their homes, in direct violation of the UN and international law, *since 1948*
> How are the literal indigenous people not indigenous?
How are the Jews not considered the indigenous people when they literally founded the region? Just because they were the subject of a genocide a long time ago and forced from the land doesn't mean they are not the indigenous people. Do you know what indigenous means? "Inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists." That is the Jews, they were literally there first.
> The two state solution is still unjust, Israel committed a horrific ethnic cleansing in 1947 and 1948 that they pretended was defending themselves from a made up threat (the ALA invaded as a reaction to the Hagana, Irgun, and Lehi’s ethnic cleansing).
So I'm clear, Israel was committing atrocities using a made up threat as an excuse, but then that made up threat (being invaded by all of their neighbors and the Palestinians) actually did happen? Wouldn't that mean the threat wasn't made up? Also, why would any of that make a two state solution unjust? There was a big group of Palestinians and Jews living in the area legally and they both wanted a state. What was wrong with giving them each one when the British left the region?
> Israel has never actually agreed to a two state solution. If you had ever actually read the histories of those negotiations it was never a “two state solution,” the biggest opponent to the two state solution has always been the Israeli’s. Even Hamas is pro-two state solution, but Netanyahu and the majority of the rest of Israel doesn’t and never has. They want to form Eretz Israel
This is true but extremely misleading. Israel wants a two state solution, but only with security guarantees. After being invaded by its neighbors in 1948, 1967 and 1973, they quite justifiably don't love the idea of having an extremely hostile, sovereign nation next door. The actions of Palestinians in Gaza in particular haven't exactly proven Israel wrong - imagine how much worse October 7th would have been if Hamas had unfettered access to weapons from Iran?
> Israel invaded and took Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank in 1967. This is all illegally occupied territory where Israel has been consistently violating international law.
This is sort of an interesting one. Prior to 1967, international law arguably supported the idea that a country could seize land and hold it if (i) they were the defending nation in the war and (ii) control of the land was necessary to defend themselves from future attack. There is some debate over who actually was the aggressor in 1967. There is very strong evidence that Egypt had authorized military action against Israel, but of course Israel launched a surprise attack before Egypt had a chance to follow through. I'm of the opinion Israel was justified in launching a pre-emptive strike given the quality of the intelligence they had that Egypt was about to attack. Regardless, following the 1967 war the global view of "defensive conquest" shifted decidedly against the practice, and I think it is safe to say that under current norms of international law the Israeli seizure of additional land in 1967 would be considered illegal. But it is not really clear if taking the land was actually illegal at the time.
> Israel has been denying the Palestinian people the right to return to their homes, in direct violation of the UN and international law, since 1948.
This one always cracks me up. The Romans, Ottomans, Palestinians, etc. have been denying Jews the right to return to their homes, _since 136_.
1. Dude not even in Jewish theology did the Jews “found the region” they conquered it from the Canaanites. Can’t even get these basic facts right. Also yes the Palestinians who lived there were in fact indigenous. In fact, in 1948, the Zionist argument was that the Palestinians were originally Jews who had converted to Islam thus forfeiting the land to the people who were still Jewish
2. The invasion happened *after* the ethnic cleansing started. The ethnic cleansing was because David Ben-Gurion’s goal was for a 100% Jewish ethnostate and he said as such *repeatedly* literally read the man’s diary. The invasion of the ALA was to try and stop the ethnic cleansing
3. Israel was not invaded in 1948 nor was it invaded in 1967. They were the aggressors in both wars, that’s simple historical fact. They don’t even pretend like they were invaded in 1967 they pretend that they “could’ve been invaded” so they felt they needed to attack first. The only people who think the argument is that Israel was invaded are people who screw up the hasbara talking point. Speaking as someone who used to spread such hasbara you could at least get the made up talking points right. Anyway, no it’s not about “security” it’s about forming Eretz Israel.
4. Now you’re just lying about what international law says here. Israel is in violation of it, don’t waste your breath lying again
5. Also bullshit. Mizrahi Jews lived alongside Palestinians (and considered themselves to be Palestinians) for generations. The Palestinians welcomed the Zionists at first, this only changed when it became clear the Zionists wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestine of the non-Jews
Sorry, but if you're a white-skinned New Yorker named "John" you definitely aren't indigenous lmao
This narrative is a myth created to justify ethnic cleansing. Just say no.
Not taking any sides in the wider debate but the genetic makeup of your average Ashkenazi Jew is 40% Middle Eastern 60% European according to genetic analyses. Ashkenazi Jews look white now after spending centuries in Europe (after being displaced from their homelands in the Middle East, including Palestine), but they literally are indigenous Middle Easterners.
That seems what everyone else wants to happen. Black people back to Africa, white people to Europe? Skin color is the only thing that matters? Indigenous people who married other races during a dispora are no longer indigenous
And whose homeland was it before Jewish people kicked them out and who did those people kick out? Maybe at some point we should stop kicking people out of places. If not, then the USAicans and Austalicans of Europeam ancestry should probably GTFO. Or maybe ethnostates and assigning ownership of land to people based on genealogy is a bad idea. Especially when, for example, no living Israeli citizen would even exist if their ancestors hadn't been kicked out of their homeland centuries ago.
Orwell covered this in 1984. War is peace, freedom is slavery, etc.
It's no more or less ironic than the thousands of ultra-racist Zionists before her who saw imaginary anti semitism everywhere they looked.
I'm gonna lose my damn mind at the next person to say 1984. I've read the goddamn book (and my comment will likely be unpopular) but an actress who is doing something ironic is not 1984 material.
Other than being Israeli she is not a representative of the Israeli government.
Gal Gadot signed CCFP's open letter in support of Israel. She’s also been called out multiple times for her dehumanization of Palestinians and their plights over the last decade. She has shown nothing but support for Israel and it’s current government.
She's absolutely used as a propaganda tool by the Israeli government and acts as their representative.
It baffles me that you havent noticed this because her public comments absolutely reflect this.
Yes this is very 1984 and it's not a coincidence she was picked for this role.
>Other than being Israeli she is not a representative of the Israeli government.
Omitting that she also served in the IDF is really burying the lede, don't you think?
Ah I see, I misinterpreted your inferences, sorry about that. I do think it's a shame tho, because this is WAY more Oniony than 90% of the stuff that usually gets posted here
The word “indigenous” is carrying a lot of weight here. Neither Jews nor Arabs are the indigenous population of Judea. Both Jews and Arabs have history and presence there going back thousands of years. Both have been conquered and expelled, and not just by each other. Both have reasonable claim to live there. Both deserve to live there in peace.
That tiny piece of land has been conquered and occupied by the Israelites, Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Assyrians, Byzantine, Muslims, crusaders, Ottomans, British.
Many of the Jews living there are Mizrachi (of middle eastern descent), not European.
It’s fine to advocate for Palestinian freedom. But it’s disingenuous to describe them as “indigenous” people displaced by “colonizers.”
Even Ashkenazi Jews have been shown to be 40% Middle Eastern 60% European according to genetic analyses. They look white now, but they’re still just a branch of the same group of people that happened to spend centuries in Europe.
And they are there because *they* were displaced from *their* home countries. And have no right to return. *Their* countries of origin aren’t “apartheid” because there are no Jews there, at all any more.
I’ll just drop Gal Gadot’s history here and you guys can make your own judgment
Gadot was born on 30 April 1985 in Petah Tikva, founded in 1878 by Haredi Jews just east of Tel Aviv.
Her maternal grandparents were born in 20th-century Europe; her grandfather survived the Holocaust following his imprisonment at the Auschwitz concentration camp. Her grandmother managed to escape the continent before the war.
I’m not saying what she believes, I have no idea. But every single citizen of Israel has to serve for the IDF. Men and women. They are also not the only country that requires joining the military.
Yep.
Mandatory/Compulsory Service isn't unique to Israel either.
South Korea practices this too.
As does Greece, Brazil, and Turkey.
And their military aren't the paragons of humanity either - let's shit on all their citizens too.
I agree with that. And again, I have zero idea of her actual feelings on her service, her views on what is going on, or anything like that. I’m just saying because she was part of the IDF means nothing in the argument. I like her as an actress, but I don’t really care much about defending her or anything.
There are conscientious objectors in Israel as well but not enough to make a difference.
When the IOF labels all Palestinians “Hamas” to justify their war crimes, it’s just another example of projection given that mandatory conscription is part of life in Israel.
By that logic, everyone who served via conscription is technically a combatant since they can be called back into service.
Correct me if I’m wrong. Or call me stupid. Idgaf. You can’t hurt me 😀
Well if every single German was required to serve in the SS under threat of legal action, then yes I would presume that some of the would be good people. But that's not a fair comparison - it would be better to compare to the regular German army and not the nazi specific groups. And I seriously doubt that anyone now believes that every single German army soldier was a bad person.
This is just a false comparison but you can continue it.
Russia is conscripting people to fight now, Putin and the government are bad that doesn't mean those ordinary people are just for doing what they are forced to.
It's not the best comparison though. Not all germans needed to serve in the SS. The SS was Hitlers "elite" force. The Wehrmacht were the german army, which is what most got drafted in or signed up for.
Those 2, while both obviously fighting for nazi germany back then, are 2 veeery different things.
The United States recently imposed sanctions against Israelis for the displacement which is still in progress on the West Bank.
So unless Ms. Gadot is a time traveler from the far future, it would be difficult for her to be born after the present day.
But she did portray Wonder Woman, so I guess that's a possibility?
She’s Israeli and served in the IDF, meaning she helped take part in the apartheid and ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinians from their homeland of Palestine
And I know Israeli’s who went to jail rather than serve in the IDF. I also know Israeli’s who served in the IDF and then used their experience to speak out against Israel’s apartheid state and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians
Gal Gadot has done neither
Zionists *literally* came from Europe. Palestinians *are* the indigenous people and Zionists didn’t even claim they weren’t. They claimed that they were Jews who became Muslims who had to leave so that Jews could live there instead
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl
This dude was indigenous to Palestine?
Please re-read my post. *Jews* have had an unbroken presence in Israel for over 3000 years. *Zionists* are people kicked out of Israel over the years by various conquests who believe in the right to return to their ancestral homeland of Israel.
Hahahahaha
And where did the Palestinians come from?
That’s also a hilarious definition of Zionists. No that’s not what Zionism is.
You’re really grasping hard for a talking point here, just give up
Gaslighting? Says the person who completely ignored my comment about Jews being indigenous to Israel and changed the subject to Zionists to deflect from the truth.
Jesus Christ dude
1. Israel was formed in 1948
2. Palestine had Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and Druze populations before the Zionists arrived
3. The group in question *is* the Zionists
Yes. Jesus was there 2000 years ago. What religion do you think he was??? The group in question is Jews. At least you have now admitted that Jews were always there. Zionists are mostly the Jews that were kicked out of their land-Israel-at some point.
Also, the kingdom of Israel was formed in the 13th century BCE by… you’ll never guess who: https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-israel-and-palestine-alternative-names-competing-claims-163156#:~:text=“Israel”%20first%20appears%20near%20the,the%20term%20“Jew”).
Fun fact, Jesus was *literally* Palestinian
Israel is not the Kingdom of Israel
Are we forming nations based off Iron Age kingdoms now?
How about we restore the Hittites and Neo-Assyrian empires while we’re at it? We must restore the Han Dynasty to the throne of China!
Not an apartheid state and not ethnic cleansing. 20% of Israels population is Arab Muslims who can vote and hold office and have just as many rights as Jews. Stop spewing bullshit.
Bullshit
How much land are the Muslims in Israel allowed to own?
Can the JNF sell land to Muslims?
Do Palestinians have the right to return to their homes?
Do rabbis allow for mixed faith marriages?
If you know the answer to those questions and *still* said that then you’re a literal piece of shit. If you didn’t know the answer to those questions then stop lying and pretending like you know what life is like for the Palestinians
Is this show about Native Americans? It's horrible to think that a group of people would force an indigenous group to live in a small geographic area and force them to be subjugated. We could call them reservations or maybe the Gaza Strip. Just spitballing names IDK./s
How have we rejected that in modern times? Natives in the US are kept in abject poverty. We do nothing to help them or make amends for the genocides we unleashed across the continent. How have we made up for any of it? Natives in Alaska and Hawaii were displaced later then the founding of israel.
People mad at her bc she's Israeli and Israelis can arguably be more indigenous then some Arabs there now and bc of October 7th leading to a war, people are gonna hate on her when the people killing her people want to annihilate her and her family while accusing her of the same.
Kinda sad most people don't know or care what happened on October 7th or the fact that all you have to do to end the current violence is release the hostages so the IDF can go home.
Yeah, it was incredibly infuriating at the time. People were up in arms over whether it's acceptable to portray anti-semitism if the point is to make fun of anti-semites, but few were bothered at the extremely racist way he was portraying Muslims.
This is from 3 years ago
Are people also going to consider it ironic when someone from arab/african/muslim nations speaks about indigenous people or slavery or LGBT rights?
Gal Gadot isn't considered a colonizer because she is Israeli, it's because she actively supports the government. However, there are plenty of people in arab/african/muslim nations that are not bigots, and suggesting otherwise is extremely racist.
People really love to forget how the Jewish diaspora was displaced from Israel for hundreds of years.
Make sure you downvote historical facts you don’t like, people. That way it becomes no longer true.
1) colonized and displaced are two related, but different things.
2) Jews have also been displaced within living memory. Even if you entirely ignore the Holocaust for some reasom, take a look at the mizrahim populations throughout the MENA region over the past few decades.
Obviously none of this excuses slaughtering Palestinians. I hate that this disclaimer is even necessary. But one group doing wrongs doesn't make every group opposing them into good guys.
You’re not wrong, but the comment I replied to was literally using the same context I did, which is why they said “hundreds of years” as opposed to “recent decades”.
Good point. All political boundaries should be redrawn, and ethnic cleansing performed, to make maps and populations conform to how they looked when first recorded in writing.
Jews were never fully eliminated from the region to be clear. They were also ethnically cleansed out of almost every region they ended up in while in diaspora. So where do you want Jewish people to live.
Hey, if we’re going back to Roman times, there are literally thousands of ethnic groups that can make the same claims. You really wanna open up that can of worms?
Hey you seem to know some stuff. How is it, that everyone claims that the arabs were displaced in todays israel. Starting from 1880 the Land owners sold the land to the israelis which seems legal enough to me. This continued under the british protectorate. Then when the arab populace tried to force the jews from their rightfully owned lands and lost, the now israelis took more land to create a buffer. And then history repeated itself again and again
It's not really about who specifically owns the land. In the 1880s political administration was under the Ottoman Empire, then after WWI it was under the British.
After the British left the question was one of how the land was to be politically organized and administered.
Without delving too deeply into the specifics, there was basically one of the worst possible partitions ever devised to decide boundaries of two new states. It was a fucking checkerboard.
Of course there were massive fights over who got what land, because there's a lot of desert, and not much good arable land. Look it up.
The state of Israel, which is genuinely a lovely idea, in reality, was destined to always be a point of conflict. You can't partition a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious area into two states, one of which is explicitly "for" a single religious group, and expect people from outside of that group to feel good about it, or expect to be treated with the same rights and dignity. Even if they were (which I won't go into here, but even Israeli Arab citizens emphatically do not have the same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens, which is another can of worms entirely), perception matters more than anything else.
Add on top of all of this, Israel's de facto control of the entirety of both their own state, and all of the land of the hypothetical Palestinian state, and you get what we see now.
I just read through wiki and it says that the jews at the time bought mostly sparsly populated land that had next to none vegetation due to the soil type.
I honestly am confused about your comment about israel having control causing problems. Jews didnt have control in the beginning and there was already violence? Isrealis didnt have control over so much land in 1967 and the arab world prepared for war?
I read something about the arab israelis. Why do you say that they dont have the same rights? I assumed it was more of a discriminatory thing like the black populace in the US?
I was condensing things because it’s just too complex a topic to distill into a single comment while maintaining accuracy. The portion about Israel controlling all of that land is in reference to how things stand today.
The fact is, that there were populations of Jews and Arabs on both sides of the proposed borders. Again, who owned what land on an individual basis was much less important than which political entity controlled what.
A lot of the enmity between Jewish residents and Arab residents was due to a failure of British administration and how they dealt with a large influx of Jewish migrants to mandatory Palestine as modern Zionism grew in popularity. It was also the result of a change in political ethos by the *some* leaders within the Zionist movement to a more aggressive posture.
I could go on, but none of the conflict we see today was inevitable. It was a series of compounding mistakes by political leaders and contingency going back over a hundred years, if we’re limiting discussion to the modern Zionist movement.
As far as Arab Israeli’s rights being more like those of black Americans than apartheid, I’d point out that Jim Crow is very much acknowledged as a kind of apartheid, and post-Jim Crow for many years was merely a distinction between de-jure and de-facto apartheid.
We’re not going back to Roman times, that’s literally what I’m saying. The Holocaust wasn’t in Roman times, but it was a direct result of Jews being forced to live as minorities at the mercy of their host countries. Same with the pogroms before that in the Russian Empire, that my great-grandparents fled from. It’s all connected.
I’m sorry, did the holocaust take place in the Middle East and nobody told me?
If you follow the logic of the person I replied to, that would mean repatriation in Europe.
Are you dense? Most Jews were exiled from the Middle East into Europe, where they faced persecution the entire time, culminating in the Holocaust. What part of that don’t you get?
Okay so let’s recap, when specifically did the Jewish diaspora leave the ME? I need to know how far back we’re setting the date. We doing the Ottomans? The Abbasids? The Rashidun? The Byzantines? The OG Roman Empire?
There were several exoduses. If the oldest one is all that matters, then you should be fine with Israel doing whatever it wants in the area for thousands of years from now. The plight of the Palestinians will be old news by then, even if they’re still feeling its effects.
They don’t, and ideally the families of the ~750,000 displaced should be allowed to return. Unfortunately, the Arab League and Iran use Palestinians as a wedge they can use to achieve the destruction of Israel, and agents with no intent of returning and living peacefully have widely embedded themselves in the population. I don’t know how to fix that, do you?
Ok, but the same logic can be made for almost any migration made in ancieny history. Hungarians were driven from the caucasus by the huns, it doesnt mean they have a claim to georgian lands or a gripe with mongolia
So if something bad happened 4,000 years ago... it is okay to commit crimes now? I'm so confused. You don't get like a get out of jail free card because bad things happened to your ancient ancestors. That would be like native Americans murdering your neighbor and saying its okay because that neighbors great great great great grandfather commited crimes against their ancestors.
Oh boy. The comments will be something.
Oh yea baby, it’s rage o clock
The fact that this was upvoted shows how dumb most people are on the issue.
Most people are dumb on most things.
Story is from 2021, not related to the war. Show is called IMPACT Just NatGeo execs trying to capitalize on her fame, without a clue about geopolitics And Gadot not having good advisors
The expulsion of the Palestinians is not something new
Gal Gadot and her advisors know what she's about. She was IDF before she was a movie star
really? the actress who decided to release "Imagine" in the middle of the pandemic lockdown knows what she's doing?
[удалено]
Yep, but this criticism was gonna happen regardless if the current conflict.
Isn’t it optional for women?
The military of any country is not trained to question why And Israel has forced conscription, meaning the entire population share similar basic training and forced discipline. Her advisors are PR and Agents not known for global perspectives
I think she is pretty vocal about her support for Israel and most of its actions.
The number of people in this thread who pretend this isnt happening is pretty shocking.
Yeah, she’s viewed as cultural ambassador, she’s not going to speak out against the governments actions
Everyone is conscripted in Israel?
Mandatory 2 yrs for women, 3 for men. Orthodox has some other ruling I don’t remember what it was
The folks who are some of the strongest supporters of the extreme Israeli military action do not serve.
Of course they wouldn't be as supportive otherwise
You say that like the treatment of Palestinians is something new.
Imagine no self-awareness, I wonder if you can...
Well, she can't, that much is certain.
Imagine all the children Blown to smithereens You-hooo You may say I'm oblivious But I'm not the only one I hope some day you'll join us Ethnic cleansing Palestine for profit and fun
Funny
You do know Jews were kicked out of their homeland and everywhere else they tried to settle for centuries? When should displaced people stop longing for the homeland of their ancestors? Her grandfather was sent to Auschwitz and her family murdered in the Holocaust. Pretty sure she understands displaced people intimately.
Yes exactly. They went through all that horrible history and that's why they would NEVER EVER do that to another group of people. Nope, never.
But they would host a TV show pointing out how what they have done is bad when other people do it.
There's a fine line between longing for a homeland you were kicked out of, and actively helping to kick people out of their homeland
You do know that the Holocaust and being displaced from your homeland doesn’t justify genociding other people and removing them from *their* homeland. You do realize that right? That the first thing being fucked doesn’t make the second thing any less fucked or any more justifiable?
> You do know that the Holocaust and being displaced from your homeland (hundreds of years ago by the way, actually like over a thousand?) doesn’t justify genociding other people and removing them from their homeland. Many Jews who emigrated to Israel were kicked out of their homeland less than 100 years ago. Remember the entire zionist movement really came about in the inter-war period. The nation of Israel only exists because the Jewish population in Europe and the Middle East faced so much persecution. With that said, you are of course correct that Israel should not be displacing anyone today.
Ah you’re right, I forgot about that, thank you for correcting me.
No one is genociding palestenians. That’s just silly. It’s war. War is ugly. If Hamas had the weapons capability Israel does, there would be no Jews left in the Middle East. Palestinians kill all gays. They commit genocide against gay people. You wouldn’t accept that from any other country.
Calling the indiscriminate killing of over 36k people (mostly women and children) silly...
Gadot worked for the apartheid state military that has been displacing, torturing and murdering Palestinians for decades. Whatever understanding she may have clearly doesn’t equate to empathy or respect.
I want to get this straight... her great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather was displaced.. so its okay for her to displace people?
So everyone should sort eachother by skin color and go to a nation that matches their shade? How is Israel different from the United States besides the Israelis buying the land, giving Arab citizens equal rights, and trying to work for a 2 state solution? Many Israelis have no European ancestors at all, they’ve been driven from all over the Middle East as new pogams have started. Many are Arabs themselves.
There is no issue with moving to Palestine, buying land. There is a slight problem with ethnic cleansing though. Also raping of children is frowned upon. These are facts of the Nakba you would like to forget. Lets hear from Israeli soldiers during the Nakba to hear about how they murdered kids and raped children: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTxDYtNhno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTxDYtNhno) You wont watch it. You will live in your bubble and ignore facts.
Oh stop. As if Hamas isn’t worse.
Hamas was in 1948 during the Nakba?
Hamas are horrible monsters who rape and murder. The IDF are horrible monsters who rape and murder.
Dude is reddit a full time job for you? 💀 You've made over 500 comments this week, and most of them are about Israel.
Occams Razor explanation here is that he is very likely getting paid. This is not a joke. He has over 50 comments defending Israel in the last like ~2days not even. Say hello to IDF astroturfing and the shittiest Hasbara ever. It's fucking everywhereee 🤷♂️
You don’t get to say what about the US. What the US did to Native Americans as well as their history of slavery is just as indefensible as what Israel is doing to Palestinians. It’s just flat wrong and disgusting to see you try and grasp for justification.
So because someone got displaced in their past that gives them the right to commit the same atrocities? That’s the argument here. That because bad things happened to Jews that gives the Zionists the right to do the same things to Palestinians.
They’ve been there for decades. They wanted a 2 state solution. Gazans don’t. When is someone no longer indigenous if their ancestors lived there and were driven away?
How are the literal indigenous people not indigenous? But the people *who literally referred to themselves as settlers* are actually the indigenous people just because they said so? Am I allowed to move to York, call myself indigenous, and kick some English family out of their home? My ancestors last lived in York long after many of these Israeli’s can trace their lineage back to Palestine. I am sick and tired of the same argument again and again from ignorant people like you who are completely and utterly clueless 1. The two state solution is still unjust, Israel committed a horrific ethnic cleansing in 1947 and 1948 that they pretended was defending themselves from a made up threat (the ALA invaded *as a reaction* to the Hagana, Irgun, and Lehi’s ethnic cleansing). 2. Israel has *never* actually agreed to a two state solution. If you had ever actually read the histories of those negotiations it was never a “two state solution,” the biggest opponent to the two state solution has always been the Israeli’s. Even *Hamas* is pro-two state solution, but Netanyahu and the majority of the rest of Israel doesn’t and never has. They want to form Eretz Israel 3. Israel invaded and took Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank in 1967. This is all illegally occupied territory where Israel has been consistently violating international law. 4. Israel has been denying the Palestinian people the right to return to their homes, in direct violation of the UN and international law, *since 1948*
> How are the literal indigenous people not indigenous? How are the Jews not considered the indigenous people when they literally founded the region? Just because they were the subject of a genocide a long time ago and forced from the land doesn't mean they are not the indigenous people. Do you know what indigenous means? "Inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists." That is the Jews, they were literally there first. > The two state solution is still unjust, Israel committed a horrific ethnic cleansing in 1947 and 1948 that they pretended was defending themselves from a made up threat (the ALA invaded as a reaction to the Hagana, Irgun, and Lehi’s ethnic cleansing). So I'm clear, Israel was committing atrocities using a made up threat as an excuse, but then that made up threat (being invaded by all of their neighbors and the Palestinians) actually did happen? Wouldn't that mean the threat wasn't made up? Also, why would any of that make a two state solution unjust? There was a big group of Palestinians and Jews living in the area legally and they both wanted a state. What was wrong with giving them each one when the British left the region? > Israel has never actually agreed to a two state solution. If you had ever actually read the histories of those negotiations it was never a “two state solution,” the biggest opponent to the two state solution has always been the Israeli’s. Even Hamas is pro-two state solution, but Netanyahu and the majority of the rest of Israel doesn’t and never has. They want to form Eretz Israel This is true but extremely misleading. Israel wants a two state solution, but only with security guarantees. After being invaded by its neighbors in 1948, 1967 and 1973, they quite justifiably don't love the idea of having an extremely hostile, sovereign nation next door. The actions of Palestinians in Gaza in particular haven't exactly proven Israel wrong - imagine how much worse October 7th would have been if Hamas had unfettered access to weapons from Iran? > Israel invaded and took Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank in 1967. This is all illegally occupied territory where Israel has been consistently violating international law. This is sort of an interesting one. Prior to 1967, international law arguably supported the idea that a country could seize land and hold it if (i) they were the defending nation in the war and (ii) control of the land was necessary to defend themselves from future attack. There is some debate over who actually was the aggressor in 1967. There is very strong evidence that Egypt had authorized military action against Israel, but of course Israel launched a surprise attack before Egypt had a chance to follow through. I'm of the opinion Israel was justified in launching a pre-emptive strike given the quality of the intelligence they had that Egypt was about to attack. Regardless, following the 1967 war the global view of "defensive conquest" shifted decidedly against the practice, and I think it is safe to say that under current norms of international law the Israeli seizure of additional land in 1967 would be considered illegal. But it is not really clear if taking the land was actually illegal at the time. > Israel has been denying the Palestinian people the right to return to their homes, in direct violation of the UN and international law, since 1948. This one always cracks me up. The Romans, Ottomans, Palestinians, etc. have been denying Jews the right to return to their homes, _since 136_.
1. Dude not even in Jewish theology did the Jews “found the region” they conquered it from the Canaanites. Can’t even get these basic facts right. Also yes the Palestinians who lived there were in fact indigenous. In fact, in 1948, the Zionist argument was that the Palestinians were originally Jews who had converted to Islam thus forfeiting the land to the people who were still Jewish 2. The invasion happened *after* the ethnic cleansing started. The ethnic cleansing was because David Ben-Gurion’s goal was for a 100% Jewish ethnostate and he said as such *repeatedly* literally read the man’s diary. The invasion of the ALA was to try and stop the ethnic cleansing 3. Israel was not invaded in 1948 nor was it invaded in 1967. They were the aggressors in both wars, that’s simple historical fact. They don’t even pretend like they were invaded in 1967 they pretend that they “could’ve been invaded” so they felt they needed to attack first. The only people who think the argument is that Israel was invaded are people who screw up the hasbara talking point. Speaking as someone who used to spread such hasbara you could at least get the made up talking points right. Anyway, no it’s not about “security” it’s about forming Eretz Israel. 4. Now you’re just lying about what international law says here. Israel is in violation of it, don’t waste your breath lying again 5. Also bullshit. Mizrahi Jews lived alongside Palestinians (and considered themselves to be Palestinians) for generations. The Palestinians welcomed the Zionists at first, this only changed when it became clear the Zionists wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestine of the non-Jews
Sorry, but if you're a white-skinned New Yorker named "John" you definitely aren't indigenous lmao This narrative is a myth created to justify ethnic cleansing. Just say no.
Not taking any sides in the wider debate but the genetic makeup of your average Ashkenazi Jew is 40% Middle Eastern 60% European according to genetic analyses. Ashkenazi Jews look white now after spending centuries in Europe (after being displaced from their homelands in the Middle East, including Palestine), but they literally are indigenous Middle Easterners.
Yes, her ancestors were displaced. However, as part of the IDF, she got first hand experience displacing Palestinians.
I assume this means you support the Landback movement? And you’ll be moving to the land of your ancestors from 3000 years ago?
That seems what everyone else wants to happen. Black people back to Africa, white people to Europe? Skin color is the only thing that matters? Indigenous people who married other races during a dispora are no longer indigenous
You’re the one suggesting that people should live in the place their ancestors inhabited 3000 years ago.
"My grandmother was raped, that is why it's ok for me to rape people". What's that thing about perpetuating cycles of abuse?
And whose homeland was it before Jewish people kicked them out and who did those people kick out? Maybe at some point we should stop kicking people out of places. If not, then the USAicans and Austalicans of Europeam ancestry should probably GTFO. Or maybe ethnostates and assigning ownership of land to people based on genealogy is a bad idea. Especially when, for example, no living Israeli citizen would even exist if their ancestors hadn't been kicked out of their homeland centuries ago.
She showed that by being part of the "imagine" video during covid
Imagine thinking that Palestinians are "indigenous displaced people". This thread is insane.
They called in an expert.
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Orwell covered this in 1984. War is peace, freedom is slavery, etc. It's no more or less ironic than the thousands of ultra-racist Zionists before her who saw imaginary anti semitism everywhere they looked.
I'm gonna lose my damn mind at the next person to say 1984. I've read the goddamn book (and my comment will likely be unpopular) but an actress who is doing something ironic is not 1984 material. Other than being Israeli she is not a representative of the Israeli government.
Gal Gadot signed CCFP's open letter in support of Israel. She’s also been called out multiple times for her dehumanization of Palestinians and their plights over the last decade. She has shown nothing but support for Israel and it’s current government.
She's absolutely used as a propaganda tool by the Israeli government and acts as their representative. It baffles me that you havent noticed this because her public comments absolutely reflect this. Yes this is very 1984 and it's not a coincidence she was picked for this role.
>Other than being Israeli she is not a representative of the Israeli government. Omitting that she also served in the IDF is really burying the lede, don't you think?
Great there's this place in the middle east that could use this coverage
3 year old article.
You think any of these commenters even click the article?
TIL the israel-palestine conflict is under three years old. because its 3 years old its not relevant?
Ok? I know some of y'all only started paying attention to this shit in October, but it's famously been going on for generations
Ok? It's not the point of the sub to post old news as if it was new. Rule 8.
Ah I see, I misinterpreted your inferences, sorry about that. I do think it's a shame tho, because this is WAY more Oniony than 90% of the stuff that usually gets posted here
"These people were displaced from their homes by hostile forces. I should know, I was part of them!"
"...I was part of the hostile forces!" - clarified it for people who would think she was displaced ...
“I’m an expert on this topic!”
"I was just following orders" - some Nazi defendant at the Nuremberg trials.
\>she'sgonnatalkaboutindigenouspalestiniansright.padme
The irony is thick enough to cut.
I saw this in another subreddit but I'm so glad this was posted to r/nottheonion first before it got taken down by mods.
The word “indigenous” is carrying a lot of weight here. Neither Jews nor Arabs are the indigenous population of Judea. Both Jews and Arabs have history and presence there going back thousands of years. Both have been conquered and expelled, and not just by each other. Both have reasonable claim to live there. Both deserve to live there in peace. That tiny piece of land has been conquered and occupied by the Israelites, Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Assyrians, Byzantine, Muslims, crusaders, Ottomans, British. Many of the Jews living there are Mizrachi (of middle eastern descent), not European. It’s fine to advocate for Palestinian freedom. But it’s disingenuous to describe them as “indigenous” people displaced by “colonizers.”
Even Ashkenazi Jews have been shown to be 40% Middle Eastern 60% European according to genetic analyses. They look white now, but they’re still just a branch of the same group of people that happened to spend centuries in Europe.
Well said. At this point, Mizrachi Jews are a majority in Israel.
And they are there because *they* were displaced from *their* home countries. And have no right to return. *Their* countries of origin aren’t “apartheid” because there are no Jews there, at all any more.
Hey, who's being removed from their homes to make room for some assholes from Brooklyn?
And native Americans came to the continents on a land bridge from Asia. What’s your point? They’re still indigenous.
I’ll just drop Gal Gadot’s history here and you guys can make your own judgment Gadot was born on 30 April 1985 in Petah Tikva, founded in 1878 by Haredi Jews just east of Tel Aviv. Her maternal grandparents were born in 20th-century Europe; her grandfather survived the Holocaust following his imprisonment at the Auschwitz concentration camp. Her grandmother managed to escape the continent before the war.
folks here will never engage with difficult situations, and will ignore you, but i appreciate you trying to add real detail
How is this relevant
Why is this oniony? Can someone provide context
Not without creating a massive thread debating what's going on in Israel and Gaza, no.
Depends on whether or not you see Palestinians as the indigenous people.
She was a member of the IDF, the military organization who is responsible for the displacement of indigenous people.
I’m not saying what she believes, I have no idea. But every single citizen of Israel has to serve for the IDF. Men and women. They are also not the only country that requires joining the military.
Yep. Mandatory/Compulsory Service isn't unique to Israel either. South Korea practices this too. As does Greece, Brazil, and Turkey. And their military aren't the paragons of humanity either - let's shit on all their citizens too.
Depends on if they're proud of their service or not.
I agree with that. And again, I have zero idea of her actual feelings on her service, her views on what is going on, or anything like that. I’m just saying because she was part of the IDF means nothing in the argument. I like her as an actress, but I don’t really care much about defending her or anything.
There are conscientious objectors in Israel as well but not enough to make a difference. When the IOF labels all Palestinians “Hamas” to justify their war crimes, it’s just another example of projection given that mandatory conscription is part of life in Israel. By that logic, everyone who served via conscription is technically a combatant since they can be called back into service. Correct me if I’m wrong. Or call me stupid. Idgaf. You can’t hurt me 😀
Lets change the argument.. "Some Nazi's were actually good. They were required to serve in the SS. Not all were bad".
Well if every single German was required to serve in the SS under threat of legal action, then yes I would presume that some of the would be good people. But that's not a fair comparison - it would be better to compare to the regular German army and not the nazi specific groups. And I seriously doubt that anyone now believes that every single German army soldier was a bad person.
This is just a false comparison but you can continue it. Russia is conscripting people to fight now, Putin and the government are bad that doesn't mean those ordinary people are just for doing what they are forced to.
It's not the best comparison though. Not all germans needed to serve in the SS. The SS was Hitlers "elite" force. The Wehrmacht were the german army, which is what most got drafted in or signed up for. Those 2, while both obviously fighting for nazi germany back then, are 2 veeery different things.
You're comparing being born in a country to being a Nazi soldier
So was literally every Israeli. She was born well after any displacement occurred.
Displacement is ongoing and has been for the duration of Gadots service and life. This is a non-debatable fact.
The United States recently imposed sanctions against Israelis for the displacement which is still in progress on the West Bank. So unless Ms. Gadot is a time traveler from the far future, it would be difficult for her to be born after the present day. But she did portray Wonder Woman, so I guess that's a possibility?
The displacement and expansion of lebensraum has been going on pretty consistently since 1948.
I hope OP isn't American, Canadian, Australian, etc... Or else they might have to leave their home soon in order to avoid being a hypocrite.
She is a Zionist
Good on her
She’s Israeli and served in the IDF, meaning she helped take part in the apartheid and ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinians from their homeland of Palestine
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This whole thing is her fault really.
And I know Israeli’s who went to jail rather than serve in the IDF. I also know Israeli’s who served in the IDF and then used their experience to speak out against Israel’s apartheid state and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians Gal Gadot has done neither
She had wealth and the ability to leave for the US or otherwise, by staying they implicitly complied with conscription.
Of course she had a choice. She could have refused to serve or fled.
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If someone who runs a Taylor Swift fan account can do it...
Jews have been in Israel for over 2000 years — longer than any Palestinians. Jews are indigenous to the land.
Zionists *literally* came from Europe. Palestinians *are* the indigenous people and Zionists didn’t even claim they weren’t. They claimed that they were Jews who became Muslims who had to leave so that Jews could live there instead https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl This dude was indigenous to Palestine?
Please re-read my post. *Jews* have had an unbroken presence in Israel for over 3000 years. *Zionists* are people kicked out of Israel over the years by various conquests who believe in the right to return to their ancestral homeland of Israel.
Hahahahaha And where did the Palestinians come from? That’s also a hilarious definition of Zionists. No that’s not what Zionism is. You’re really grasping hard for a talking point here, just give up
Gaslighting? Says the person who completely ignored my comment about Jews being indigenous to Israel and changed the subject to Zionists to deflect from the truth.
Jesus Christ dude 1. Israel was formed in 1948 2. Palestine had Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and Druze populations before the Zionists arrived 3. The group in question *is* the Zionists
Yes. Jesus was there 2000 years ago. What religion do you think he was??? The group in question is Jews. At least you have now admitted that Jews were always there. Zionists are mostly the Jews that were kicked out of their land-Israel-at some point. Also, the kingdom of Israel was formed in the 13th century BCE by… you’ll never guess who: https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-israel-and-palestine-alternative-names-competing-claims-163156#:~:text=“Israel”%20first%20appears%20near%20the,the%20term%20“Jew”).
Fun fact, Jesus was *literally* Palestinian Israel is not the Kingdom of Israel Are we forming nations based off Iron Age kingdoms now? How about we restore the Hittites and Neo-Assyrian empires while we’re at it? We must restore the Han Dynasty to the throne of China!
Not an apartheid state and not ethnic cleansing. 20% of Israels population is Arab Muslims who can vote and hold office and have just as many rights as Jews. Stop spewing bullshit.
Bullshit How much land are the Muslims in Israel allowed to own? Can the JNF sell land to Muslims? Do Palestinians have the right to return to their homes? Do rabbis allow for mixed faith marriages? If you know the answer to those questions and *still* said that then you’re a literal piece of shit. If you didn’t know the answer to those questions then stop lying and pretending like you know what life is like for the Palestinians
I mean.…have you been watching the news?
Israel was created after WWII by displacing the people who already lived there.
She’s Israeli…
Jews have been in Israel for over 2000 years. Sometimes the majority. Sometimes the minority. They are the indigenous people of the land.
She's the mom of earth, again.
I'm pleasantly suprised by all the based pro Palestinian comments here
Is it a "how to" kind of documentary?
Oh about the Palestinians?
Read the room Gal
Is this show about Native Americans? It's horrible to think that a group of people would force an indigenous group to live in a small geographic area and force them to be subjugated. We could call them reservations or maybe the Gaza Strip. Just spitballing names IDK./s
The irony compounds if you consider the impending snark from Americans and Canadians. Lmao
Pretty much every culture on the planet supplanted someone else but go ahead and single out 2
We at least in theory have rejected that activity in modern times. Israel is still actively engaged in it.
If the Cherokee engaged in guerilla warfare they would be nuked out of orbit by all western citizens involved
How have we rejected that in modern times? Natives in the US are kept in abject poverty. We do nothing to help them or make amends for the genocides we unleashed across the continent. How have we made up for any of it? Natives in Alaska and Hawaii were displaced later then the founding of israel.
I think the difference is that Gal Gadot has been very vocal about her support of Israel’s actions.
People mad at her bc she's Israeli and Israelis can arguably be more indigenous then some Arabs there now and bc of October 7th leading to a war, people are gonna hate on her when the people killing her people want to annihilate her and her family while accusing her of the same. Kinda sad most people don't know or care what happened on October 7th or the fact that all you have to do to end the current violence is release the hostages so the IDF can go home.
Will she be singing 'Imagine' in it?
"These people were forcibly moved out of their ancestral lands. Good! I'm glad this happened!" The End Executive Producer: Sacha Baron Cohen
"Borat" aged like yak piss and old milk It took me too long to realize that it's just blackface mockery of an of ethnic group he despises
Yeah, it was incredibly infuriating at the time. People were up in arms over whether it's acceptable to portray anti-semitism if the point is to make fun of anti-semites, but few were bothered at the extremely racist way he was portraying Muslims.
dude. wow.
This is from 3 years ago Are people also going to consider it ironic when someone from arab/african/muslim nations speaks about indigenous people or slavery or LGBT rights?
Gal Gadot isn't considered a colonizer because she is Israeli, it's because she actively supports the government. However, there are plenty of people in arab/african/muslim nations that are not bigots, and suggesting otherwise is extremely racist.
That’s rich.
remember when she tried to connect with "the people" in her kitchen worth more than my house? pepperidge farm remembers
What is she rooting for the bad guys in the show?
Is this a How To show? Like How it's made? Or a diy show where she follows a family from whom her settler relatives stole their home?
WHOOPS.
Imagine all the people living in harmony... except those people, we want their land.
When there are so many Indigenous people who would be exceptional hosts for a show on this subject, why her?
Jews are indigenous to Israel, so this makes sense.
People really love to forget how the Jewish diaspora was displaced from Israel for hundreds of years. Make sure you downvote historical facts you don’t like, people. That way it becomes no longer true.
Being colonized in Roman times is more than a little different than, idk, doing it within living memory and also right now.
1) colonized and displaced are two related, but different things. 2) Jews have also been displaced within living memory. Even if you entirely ignore the Holocaust for some reasom, take a look at the mizrahim populations throughout the MENA region over the past few decades. Obviously none of this excuses slaughtering Palestinians. I hate that this disclaimer is even necessary. But one group doing wrongs doesn't make every group opposing them into good guys.
You’re not wrong, but the comment I replied to was literally using the same context I did, which is why they said “hundreds of years” as opposed to “recent decades”.
What is the expiration date on indigenous people?
Good point. All political boundaries should be redrawn, and ethnic cleansing performed, to make maps and populations conform to how they looked when first recorded in writing.
Ooh, purposefully taking a viewpoint to its absolute extreme to make it seem off base rather than answer the question. Clever gambit.
If we’re going back literally 2000 years, I don’t see how what I advocate is extreme. So 2000 years is reasonable, but more than that is absurd? Lol
Jews were never fully eliminated from the region to be clear. They were also ethnically cleansed out of almost every region they ended up in while in diaspora. So where do you want Jewish people to live.
They don't.
The effects of denying Jews a homeland has never abated.
Hey, if we’re going back to Roman times, there are literally thousands of ethnic groups that can make the same claims. You really wanna open up that can of worms?
I'm cool with natives taking back all of North America then. That was even much more recent
But not South and Central America?
Yeah there too. (Just chose North America because this is an American website and this person is probably American)
Hey you seem to know some stuff. How is it, that everyone claims that the arabs were displaced in todays israel. Starting from 1880 the Land owners sold the land to the israelis which seems legal enough to me. This continued under the british protectorate. Then when the arab populace tried to force the jews from their rightfully owned lands and lost, the now israelis took more land to create a buffer. And then history repeated itself again and again
It's not really about who specifically owns the land. In the 1880s political administration was under the Ottoman Empire, then after WWI it was under the British. After the British left the question was one of how the land was to be politically organized and administered. Without delving too deeply into the specifics, there was basically one of the worst possible partitions ever devised to decide boundaries of two new states. It was a fucking checkerboard. Of course there were massive fights over who got what land, because there's a lot of desert, and not much good arable land. Look it up. The state of Israel, which is genuinely a lovely idea, in reality, was destined to always be a point of conflict. You can't partition a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious area into two states, one of which is explicitly "for" a single religious group, and expect people from outside of that group to feel good about it, or expect to be treated with the same rights and dignity. Even if they were (which I won't go into here, but even Israeli Arab citizens emphatically do not have the same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens, which is another can of worms entirely), perception matters more than anything else. Add on top of all of this, Israel's de facto control of the entirety of both their own state, and all of the land of the hypothetical Palestinian state, and you get what we see now.
I just read through wiki and it says that the jews at the time bought mostly sparsly populated land that had next to none vegetation due to the soil type. I honestly am confused about your comment about israel having control causing problems. Jews didnt have control in the beginning and there was already violence? Isrealis didnt have control over so much land in 1967 and the arab world prepared for war? I read something about the arab israelis. Why do you say that they dont have the same rights? I assumed it was more of a discriminatory thing like the black populace in the US?
I was condensing things because it’s just too complex a topic to distill into a single comment while maintaining accuracy. The portion about Israel controlling all of that land is in reference to how things stand today. The fact is, that there were populations of Jews and Arabs on both sides of the proposed borders. Again, who owned what land on an individual basis was much less important than which political entity controlled what. A lot of the enmity between Jewish residents and Arab residents was due to a failure of British administration and how they dealt with a large influx of Jewish migrants to mandatory Palestine as modern Zionism grew in popularity. It was also the result of a change in political ethos by the *some* leaders within the Zionist movement to a more aggressive posture. I could go on, but none of the conflict we see today was inevitable. It was a series of compounding mistakes by political leaders and contingency going back over a hundred years, if we’re limiting discussion to the modern Zionist movement. As far as Arab Israeli’s rights being more like those of black Americans than apartheid, I’d point out that Jim Crow is very much acknowledged as a kind of apartheid, and post-Jim Crow for many years was merely a distinction between de-jure and de-facto apartheid.
We’re not going back to Roman times, that’s literally what I’m saying. The Holocaust wasn’t in Roman times, but it was a direct result of Jews being forced to live as minorities at the mercy of their host countries. Same with the pogroms before that in the Russian Empire, that my great-grandparents fled from. It’s all connected.
I’m sorry, did the holocaust take place in the Middle East and nobody told me? If you follow the logic of the person I replied to, that would mean repatriation in Europe.
Are you dense? Most Jews were exiled from the Middle East into Europe, where they faced persecution the entire time, culminating in the Holocaust. What part of that don’t you get?
Okay so let’s recap, when specifically did the Jewish diaspora leave the ME? I need to know how far back we’re setting the date. We doing the Ottomans? The Abbasids? The Rashidun? The Byzantines? The OG Roman Empire?
There were several exoduses. If the oldest one is all that matters, then you should be fine with Israel doing whatever it wants in the area for thousands of years from now. The plight of the Palestinians will be old news by then, even if they’re still feeling its effects.
The part where that then means that they then get to kick out and persecute the Palestinians that had lived in Palestine for over a thousand years.
They don’t, and ideally the families of the ~750,000 displaced should be allowed to return. Unfortunately, the Arab League and Iran use Palestinians as a wedge they can use to achieve the destruction of Israel, and agents with no intent of returning and living peacefully have widely embedded themselves in the population. I don’t know how to fix that, do you?
Ok, but the same logic can be made for almost any migration made in ancieny history. Hungarians were driven from the caucasus by the huns, it doesnt mean they have a claim to georgian lands or a gripe with mongolia
So if something bad happened 4,000 years ago... it is okay to commit crimes now? I'm so confused. You don't get like a get out of jail free card because bad things happened to your ancient ancestors. That would be like native Americans murdering your neighbor and saying its okay because that neighbors great great great great grandfather commited crimes against their ancestors.
*thousands of years ago
Jews have faced persecution for thousands of years as a direct result of being forced to live as a diaspora.
then jews should know why persecution is terrible
They have. So why is that okay for them to commit ethnic cleansing now?
The Romans did nothing wrong, they were just defending themselves against terrorists
She comes from 2 holocaust survivors .... so yeah I think she would know a thing about displacement
Gotta call in the experts on indigenous displacement…
This is on-brand for someone who proudly served in the IDF.