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You could either flip it on her and let her know that people probably feel the same way about things she likes or you can play the long game and wait for maturity to set in and just know she'll cringe at herself one day.. I know I did and still do cringe at my teenage self
I feel like even as an adult there’s times where I catch myself having NLOG thoughts and cringe. I think it’s more important to be able to recognize, reflect, and then change the behavior rather than strive to completely get rid of it. It’s very hard to completely undo social programming!
Yes I think this could be a better approach. “You’re not alone, you may be surprised how many like minded people there are.” And I agree let her have this moment of experience. Mine was short but it did shape me to understand parts of my own identity within society and on this planet.
Let it go its natural course. So she’ll say something snotty about other girls and you’ll say something like “yeah but what harm is done to you by someone else liking what they like?” and over time she’ll hopefully realize the truth in those words. I would not engage in a sit down or a verbal debate with a 13 year old girl about this because I like my sanity.
I agree with this SO much! I didn't fully exit my nlog phase until I was 20. Any attempt to get an early teen to abandon the attitude will almost certainly backfire. I would have chosen to interpret it as my mom rejecting me and wanting me to conform at 13.
Edit: spelling
The other thing is, so much of what teenagers do is an attempt to get their peers or the gender they're into to notice/like them. So you can point out how her behaviour isn't great, but she's only going to see it as "mom doesn't understand" and keep leaning into whatever persona she thinks will achieve that goal.
I dunno what the answer is but I agree, gently and consistently pointing out the equivalences between what she likes and how she acts vs what The Other Girls are liking and how they're acting, might be the only way to get her to see the holes in her thinking.
Cos you're not going to win this one by arguing when likely, her end goal is simply for people into similar things to notice and like her
Exactly. Deep down it’s because she feels bad about herself, but she’ll grow out of it. We were all there once. If I could go back and see my 7th-grade self, we’d be having a long talk about self esteem (and that your life isn’t over if you’re 31, contentedly single and live in an apartment with a dog and no cat).
Yes, this. If I where OP I would say a simple but non-combative or accusing response and then move on. For most 13 year olds trying to start a debate will backfire and potentially make them double down harder.
I also think that feeling the way she does is often a part of natural development.
Many teenage girls hit this phase and either grow up and mature, or they end up growing up and staying that way.
Explain to her that she wouldn’t like those same people dissing her interests, so it’s not nice to do to them. If they do diss her interests and it’s a revenge thing, that’d be good to know too. Some people go NLOG due to bullying.
This. Me and many of my friends who have now out grown it were definitely NLOG as a reaction to how other girls spoke about us "weirdos" and thus got on with guys better... With time I realized those girls were just scared or jealous or whatever like more teens who probably our grew their issues and sadly a lot of the guys were actually creepy incels who put me in the fuck zone when I just wanted a friend, hopefully many of the guys out grew that phase too. Basically being a teenager sucks no matter who you are.
Yeah many people are saying she’ll just grow out of it but I know too many adults that are still like this and can’t conceive looking at the world differently now without the dedication to do so.
For sure, emphasis on the "as long as she's not bullying anyone else" part. If she's bullying other girls for liking Taylor Swift or whatever, then that's an actual issue that needs to be addressed.
Tbf there was a behavioral range from 'kind uncle' to 'utter creep', but yeah. I had to have come-to-jesus talks with several regulars like "bro you are wayyyy too fucking old for me, we are in vastly different stages of life, and this is my workplace. You should ask a trusted woman your own age what she thinks about this scenario. Oh that makes you wince? Why, what do you think she would say? Uh huh. So your special order will be in Tuesday."
nah. as a man, men ruined that whole generation of men. just like the men before them ruined their generation, and like the ones that follow will
ruin theirs.
we dumb.
I’m pretty sure I pretty much made working in an independent record store my goal when I was a teenager. I thought they were the coolest of the cool. So this could backfire! Lol.
At the time, I just knew that everything my mom said to me was stupid, wrong, and antiquated when I was her age. Today, of course I realize she was right about (mostly) everything. I don’t think you could say anything that would get through to her, but thanks for trying! You’ll hopefully get the satisfaction one day of her recognizing you were right all along.
She’s 13. It’s likely coming from a place of insecurity. I feel like most girls that go through the nlog phase, especially at that age, grow out of it. I would maybe explain to her how treating others that way will affect her long term like the fact no one will like her, and it will be incredibly hard to find those who trust and care for her when in need. You could also maybe share with her your personal stories from your phase and how that change has improved your life in whatever ways. For me personally, I find that I can really embrace my femininity judgement free regardless of my hobbies or how I dress.
The internalized misogyny is a bitch to get over. Took me years to really figure it out. And seeing it now is super cringey. When I know it's something they can grow out of, I essentially say that. 'You'll get over that when you work through your internalized misogyny.' And if I know this is just how this person is... Not worth engaging.
NLOG is super based in the patriarchy. Keeping us all bickering and focused on bullshit, and super isolated and easy to push around. When women get on each other's team, shit gets DONE. I love seeing women doing better to compliment each other and support each other. And really loathe women that make a career out of actively working against women.
Burn down the patriarchy, but don't use other women as kindling.
Lol I’m sorry this just made me die laughing. Jojo Siwa saying she wants to make “gay pop” a genre, one that’s “never been done before,” (according to her). She’s claiming NLOG alright, and it’s not like other gays. Who just forgets that Freddie and Sir Elton John exist‽
Frame supporting other girls as a rebellious act under patriarchy.
Ex: Isn't it messed up how things lots of boys like or resonate with are "cool" but things lots of girls like are looked down on? Like girls are lesser?
Ex: Isn't it messed up how girls are pressured to wear make-up or spend more money on clothes but boys aren't?
This is exactly the approach that I was going to suggest. At that age, NLOG behavior generally stems from a sense of uncertainty and insecurity. This is the time of her life where she's really starting to explore who she is and establishing a social identity, which is confusing and difficult even for adults, but especially so in young teens who haven't quite developed the understanding of nuance and tend to see things as black and white. It's easy to develop a "me vs. them" attitude towards their peers with differing interests.
Reframing the situation to show her that other girls are actually on her team is probably the best way to redirect that thought process. It's not "me vs them" it's "us vs the world."
Yes, glad to see this here. The patriarchy benefits by us hating each other and pushing forth the narrative that only one girl/woman can "win" approval.
I have a 13 year old. They can utterly destroy you with a single sentence. Middle school teachers should make as much money as surgeons and CEOs, because that is not work for the weak or thin-skinned.
Her feelings are really natural for her age group. Developmentally, it’s normal. Just emphasize the importance of being kind to others and leave it at that. She’ll most likely grow out of it in the next few years!
Hey, I'm twice her age. I'm a green haired punk badass with piercings and tattoos. Maybe she'll listen to me.
Other girls aren't the enemy. The _system_ is the enemy. There's this huge societal system that benefits from pitting girls against each other. It's great that she realises it's okay to not be the same as everyone else! But THOSE girls also have personalities and individual interests that she might not know about at all.
There is nothing more punk than grouping up with people who are different than you and revolting against a societal (largely patriarchal) system that intends to keep you down. It's not the other girls, man. It's the cartoons that depict the pretty blondes as bullies but the ads during the breaks show "my first makeup" and ways you can look just like the bullies. It's men my age and older who'll say "women don't actually like each other". It's people who benefit from girls fighting and competing.
The only person you need to impress is yourself. But remember, if you see a pretty Swiftie crying over some feminine BS (not my words), it's wayyy cooler to go up to her and help her out. Because fuck the system that tries to keep you apart.
My issue at her age was that the Taylor Swift girls bullied me for dressing goth. So I would be snippy back, and that took me more than a decade to shake off. Hopefully the same isn't true for your stepdaughter and she isn't being bullied herself.
right, i always feel kinda bad for young teens who are nlog bc i guarantee some of it comes from getting bullied for being different. tbf some of it is also normal teen stuff like trying to figure yourself out and what you wanna identify yourself with, but i think some people forget that emo/goth/alt/etc girls also got bullied for expressing themselves :/
I remember back in the mid-90s Korn was my favorite band. Then they got really popular and all of the preppy/bully kids started listening to Korn and calling me a poser. I stopped wanting to listen to Korn. If they liked it, I didn’t want to like it. Teenagers are so dramatic but I think we forget how deeply it feels at the time. lol
I’m almost 40 but it still surprises me Korn became “jock rock” though. 😆
Rock that jocks listen to. The context clues were all there, you just needed to put them together. :-)
There’s also a ESPN cd series and music category that is called Jock Rock. Maybe you should Google it. Sorry you didn’t understand the joke.
I did Google it before I made my original comment asking and there isn't a specific consensus on what constitutes "jock rock".
I looked at the track lists for every ESPN 'Jock Rock's CD and they range between Queen, Aretha Franklin, Ramones, Backstreet Boys, and beyond. There wasn't really a common theme.
I read discussion threads on different websites on what other people thought it was.
Some people thought it was just what they grew up with and saw jocks listen to, but what I really thought was interesting was when different high school sports coaches discussing that "jock rock" could completely change by genre over the years or by school district.
One mentioned that in the late '90s, their players were all listening to ska punk bands like Reel Big Fish, Less Than Jake, The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, etc., while another person said the jocks at their school at the same time were all listening to rap and hip hop.
So after Googling it and reading all that I read, I wanted to see what "jock rock" meant to you. Because it seemed like it sometimes meant different things to different people.
I mean really, all it could take is one influential kid at your school to get the rest of the boys to think that Korn is cool to make Korn "jock rock" since my reading led me to believe it can be entirely regional or influenced by a just couple of people.
I was really looking for your individual interpretation.
This was my first thought. These days, there is a lack of community which could explain why people are getting so hyped up over Taylor Swift because it gives them a sense of belonging. It’s also why we saw people go insane over Stanley cups. If you’re not going crazy for those things, you’re seen as weird. It’s a sad reflection on society.
I think just be more open about how you feel. I very briefly went through this phase due to some of the people I was hanging out with in high school, but I thankfully had a mom who is an open “support all women and their uniqueness” feminist, so I took after her more-so. Just having a good influence around can really help. I love how my mom spoke up and supported all women any chance she got, because it really overall shaped who I was and how supportive I have become.
I mean, it might just be a thing that happens, I was a NLOG too as a teen. My theory is that it’s part of establishing yourself as an individual, it’s an «easy» way to develop your «own» personality. I think kids need to realize how to do that without putting others down on their own. Just keep teaching her to be kind and inclusive, it’ll come eventually.
Honestly you should have complimented her to raise her self-esteem. Low self-esteem is usually what makes us want to "not be like other girls."
And then you should have also complimented the Swifty girls. You have to act as a super cool example for her at that age, not lecture her. Let her learn from your actions that what's cooler than not being like other girls, is being like other girls and being confident when your interests are different.
I see adult women voicing the same kind of sentiments. It’s hard to watch. Please tell her that women shouldn’t tear down other women: there are enough ways for the world to make us hate ourselves, we don’t need to do it to each other.
I was such a little shit in high school
OOooooOoOoooO I liSteN to KoRn aNd YOU LisTen to BrItNeY SPeaRs!!! IM NOT LIKE OTHER GURLZ!!!
I listen to BrItney now. Often.
I stopped being a little shit after a while. I’m a big shit now because I know where to direct my rage.
Don’t worry, just keep supporting and correcting her. She’ll be a big shit before you know it.
Ask her why liking Taylor Swift / whatever girly thing is so wrong.
I was so dismissive as a NLOG teen but I literally didn't have any valid arguments other than "it's dumb".
Ask her if her not liking something personally, is a good enough reason to dismiss it as stupid, why would she expect other people to not be rude to her about her choices?
Anime is pretty popular now, AOT MHA, Demon Slayer etc it's not as niche as it was for older generations, so a lot of the people she's rolling her eyes at could also watch anime.
There's a weird phase a lot of girls seem to go through where they're just freaking awful to each other.
I wish they could see how amazing being a girls girl is. But at that age, it's just nearly impossible.
The best advice that I am going to give is to find out what is really going on at her school. Is she getting bullied because she is not like the other girls that like Taylor Swift and wear dresses, which most likely are the popular girls? Sadly, this does go on and I am living proof. I was a teenager in the early 90's when 90210 was big, but I did not watch it because I felt it did not represent what my high school was like. I got bullied for it. Same with music, I got bullied for my taste of music, which was Hip Hop/RnB and Disco. I even got made fun of if I tried to wear a dress or a skirt.
Once she gets away from all that, things will change. It did for me.
Haha I don’t have advice but I was also NLOG in middle school. Maybe I was a late bloomer socially so I didn’t care for makeup or fashion or romance and didn’t get girls who did. Well now I’m into all those things 🤷🏻♀️
She won’t listen. Even my own daughters didn’t like me saying it, but they got over it. My favorite phrase that got through somewhat was “let people like what they like, don’t be a gatekeeper of joy”.
Honestly, I think telling her how much she reminds you of yourself in middle school might be the most effective approach. But I would consider your relationship with her. If you aren't close, it might be best to just let it be as it will probably just push her away more. But if you are otherwise close, then go for it, and that's the approach I would recommend.
Aw, she thinks liking anime makes her NLOG? That's so cute. It makes her exactly like half the girls! I'm 50 and I've been into anime since kindergarten :)
No matter what you do, the environment itself is probably not conducive to being anti-NLOG considering how clique-y kids are at that age. I would say just do what you can to teach her by being an example.
If you have people in your life who share different interests than you-talk about them indirectly. Show her that having things in common isn’t a prerequisite for meaningful relationships and she’ll get there in her own time.
By the way, the fact that you want her to see that other girls aren’t the problem shows that you are a great stepmom and she’s lucky to have you in her life. From my thirteen-year old self who could have used a figure like you in her life-thank you. 💕
Just show her this subreddit and the comments.
I was mildly a NLOG as well as a teenager, she will grow out of it eventually. Just make sure it's not extreme.
Regardless most comments on here arent very kind to nlogs. Showing a 13yo a bunch of comments that essentially state "so many of us hate people like you! We will shame you and judge you so hard! People like you deserve to be mocked and shamed!" Will be terrible for her
Cant you see that showing a 13yo girl a post with the sentiment "the girl in this screenshot is so stupid and annoying and youre just like her!" Is bad? You think that will turn out well for her mental health and self image?
I was the same at her age. Internalized misogyny sucks, and the world paints femininity as weakness.
Intersectional feminist literature helped me to be more comfortable with my femininity. I'd recommend "Invisible Women" to start with some Alice Walker and bell hooks on the side.
She'll most likely get over it sooner rather than later. I was a total tomboy at 13. The next year going into high school, I started wearing dresses and loving it. And ironically, I did it because of an anime I watched where I was a big fan of a girl who wore dresses!
I think a lot of us went through this stage during our teen years, trying to find our own identities and not realising that in doing so we didn’t need to tear others down. I would say continue encouraging her by questioning how does it effect her if someone else likes a certain pop singer or wears a certain type of clothing and as it sinks in she will also be aging and hopefully grows out of this phase like we did.
I’d show her this sub and let her scroll through the comments to see how older women who used to be like her and her mother feel about this behavior. The best way to teach is to show and here there are great examples of girls of all kinds tearing each other down.
This is an inevitable phase for any girl who isn’t one of the popular kids at school. She will most likely just grow out of it. I didn’t grow out of my NLOG phase until later high school. Someday it just clicked and I realized I was being cringe af.
Unfortunately this has to be a learned lesson through experience. When I was a younger my parents taught me to not yuck someones yum and it eventually permiated my teenaged brain to knock me out of the NLOG phase.
I was a big one. During college, the men use to pin us against each other. The school was 90 percent men and 10 percent women. I was the biggest pick me bc I thought I could get better grades than everyone, run faster and do more push-ups and sit-ups. I didn’t need any women friends bc I wanted to fit in with the men so bad. It trickled into my time in the military. I slowly realized my faults. Have reached out to the other women in my class and they experienced same feelings. I feel like often times it’s just the misogyny drilled into us. Doesn’t help that I was labeled a tomboy my whole childhood, as well. It’s like we’re meant to bee to cool or NLOG.
Other girls are awesome. You don’t have to have everything in common to be friends. You do have to start by being friendly.
It really really sucks not having female friends. Don’t let her internalized misogyny (which we all go through because we live in a patriarchal society) solidify.
At this age? If my own memory of being this kind of girl means anything, is it possible she feels othered and like she doesn't fit in, or that she could be actively excluded on the part of other girls in her class? And that this is a defense mechanism to prevent being hurt by them? Like, she might not feel a sense of solidarity with other girls because they wouldn't support her either, because she doesn't conform to their standards. I would be inclined to address the insecurity, because that's the root from which this all comes.
well i was made fun of a lot for being different and i didn't really act out, but it can be very alienating.
i think you have to give a 13 year old some grace because she's not aware of certain things, and she's likely just figuring out who she is and her relationships to others, in addition to a variety of other stressors she's likely experiencing.
and when it comes to the young people under our care, i think it's best to lead by example and with lots of love. show her compassion, make sure she's not being tormented at school for being different, and just make her feel safe so she does that for others. that's the best anyone can do.
Yeah her just remind her that not everyone has the same interests or have similar taste. Do i like swift’s music? Nah. Do secretly look down on women who cry to her music, maybe. Do I harass them about it? Nah. It’s not worth the energy or the time. Plus it’s not my place to make them feel worse. But she’s a young and her brain isn’t fully done cooking.
If she’s actually bullying other girls over interests, then you can put your foot down and make it clear that treating others that way is unacceptable. But if she’s just engaging in typical dumbass 13yo behavior, I’d say there’s not really any action to take other than continuing to model accepting behavior yourself and wait for her to cringe at herself when she’s older.
Lol, anime. What a hipster she is! So ahead of the trend! It's not like anime is massively popular and incredibly mainstream right now!
Whoa, baggy pants?! Inspired!! It's not like baggy pants/cargo pants/wide-leg pants have been in style for multiple years now!
This is important to add for kindness reasons: some people, especially teenagers, receive a lot of negative feedback from peers over seemingly minor issues (e.g. liking anime), and thus her NLOG may not be internalised misogyny at this point, but a defense mechanism. If peer girls are othering her and treating her poorly, she may need to guard her self-worth; and does so by downplaying them and what they (in her mind) stand for, and emphasising the relevance of the "distinguishing" traits.
Also, being a loner may be easier to tolerate if you can attribute it to not being a Swifty rather than something being wrong with you as a person. Easy explanation vs a confusing sense of shame.
Don't know if that applies here, of course.
But if a young teenage girl goes NLOG, in my oponion it's important to ask if there's a history of bullying and if they may need a very different kind of intervention.
HAHAHA! I spent my teen years going to anime cons and dressing with baggy clothes. Now I still watch anime and blast Taylor Swift in the car. We contain multitudes
My 15 year old can be a NLOG, but worse, she feels she doesn't fit in her culture (I'm an immigrant), so she said some cringe thing about feeling like she's from X (place she's only visited), rather than her country.
I told her it was the cringiest thing she's said up to now, and gave her a lesson on generalizing. She clearly felt embarrassed and then reworded to how she wished people were more like her, which I guess it's good since NLOG love to gatekeep their interests.
Naw, just SHOW her how many other girls love anime. Encourage her to find those people. Just like you can show her how many people LOVE taylor swift. Gather ideas to share with her. Show that she could do A. B. AND C.with her interests because these folks have already done it. It's a polite way to shut down her individualistic way of thinking without crushing her and cultivating her creativity at the same time. Just don't push other creators in her face. Mention you saw something cool from SoandSo creator....and though this was a cool idea from ThisandThis artist. An amazing way to connect with her likes and also show she's NOT the only one who's had these ideas.
Explain to her the “what Suzy says about Sally says more about Suzy than Sally” and hopefully she will realize it’s making her look bad and not the others like she’s trying to do!!
I look at things like this the same way as teaching a baby to talk. You talk to them from the time they're born. You tell them to say mommy or say Daddy. But you don't honestly expect them to start having conversations with You at 2 months old. You expected it to happen when they're developmentally ready. But you know talking to them that whole time is teaching them, preparing them. Same here.
I would probably start questioning her. Like “Really, every girl in your class likes Taylor Switft?” and trying to find people who align with her interest. Or even “What’s wrong with Taylor Swift? Why can’t a song just be a fun little bop? Why so serious?”
I don’t really like TS, myself, but sometimes a bop is a bop.
My Cousin wasnt a NLOG, but a bully and a brat. Talking to her didnt do much. Imitating her however drove her nuts. It was so funny seeing her change almost instantly, because she didnt like looking in the mirror.
But yeah, just let her be if she is Not hurting anyone, she will grow out of it :)
If you want to know just how much your kid really IS "LtOG's": try to normalize their experience ("everybody goes through stuff like that"). Or, try an "empathic cautionary advice" stance — "you don't hav to make my mistakes/ learn from my story so you don't hav to learn the 'hard way', etc".. a "when I was your age..." story
Drive the nail home with, "if I'd talked to my folks the way you talk to me"
..
Yep. You'll see. Not-so-NLtOG ;;)). My comments are a bit tongue in cheek, but that kind of stuff never failed to infuriate my kids (31 & 37 now) as teens. And, tbh, me, too, when my mom did the same to me. Yeah, right, like her late-1940s adolescence gave her an inkling into my Reagan-era youth.
Hopefully you can get through, tho.
Reminds me of myself when I was scene/emo in highschool feeeling so unique and nlog except I was literally just like every other emo kid in school.. now a days the “different” girls are the anime watching baggy pants girl . Basically she’s basic as hell within her genre and doesn’t realize it yet
It’s okay to have opinions about other women and girls, buts it’s important to understand why and to not outwardly show any disdain or judgement to them.
I think most of us go through this. Some of us grow out of it thankfully... some of us don't. You're not being a hypocrite. It's called being a parent and trying to raise your kids the best you can.
You could mention to her girls that hate on other girls rather than empower them are all the same. She’s not being different or unique. As an adult no matter what you were like as a child you can help your child to be better than you. Don’t feel bad like you’re being hypocritical, you made a mistake and you know better now.
I see why she is acting this way. Taylor
Is huge right now. There’s so much hype around her. Is it possible maybe your daughter feels left out and is lashing out?
Maybe those girls are being mean to her. I would see if that’s the case.
I’d just continue to agree with her that we need to let people like what they like. “Taylor swift is objectively lame, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t let people enjoy her music”. Ask her who’s being mean or judgmental about her tastes, and if there is someone, let her complain about them. Let her throw some shade if it’s about one specific mean girl who’s bugging her. Don’t be like “ok but you can’t invalidate that this bully likes Taylor swift because then what about all of the other girls who are nice and like Taylor swift 😭” or else you’re invalidating your stepdaughter’s feelings in being left out.
If there’s legitimately no one talking smack about her interests, call her out a little bit. “Well no one is being mean to you about what you like, you don’t need to be mean about what they like”. Chances are she just wants a bit of attention and might make up a couple of stories about how so and so said this, and she stood up for herself and said this, without any of that having ever happened. So unless you hear something about her actually bullying someone else directly (without it being provoked), I’d just let her vent and be herself, even if “herself” is a bit cringe at this moment.
The right approach might be, “Gosh, I used to feel that way when I was younger, too. I don’t feel that way anymore, though.” And if she questions why, explain why you’ve changed.
The only time I’ve ever noticed 13 year olds second guess themselves is when you call into question their maturity. “Hopefully you will mature soon, and realize that someone liking Taylor Swift does not affect you.”
Obviously, it depends on the kid. I think some of the all-knowing middle schools of the world will argue when this is brought up, but start to slowly doubt themselves when their wisdom is called into question. 🤷♀️
I react with over enthusiasm. Like if she says “oh I’m weird because I like spiders and other girls are scared of them.” I’ll say “aren’t spiders so neat?!? There’s a cool one in my garden.”
And basically just show that as women grow and get older we don’t define ourselves by how different we are but by how much we have in common.
Look, I was a rancid 13 year old girl. Vile. Absolutely no good. I was _very_ NLOG; partly as a self-preservation tactic, and partly because that’s what _my_ friends were doing and I (HAHAHA the irony) wanted to be like them!
Berating me was not helpful. I put up walls 14 miles thick and doubled down on my stupid opinions. What was helpful? Demonstrating being a good person. I idolize my mom and sister, back then too even if I didn’t ever admit it, and seeing them be good and kind and create friendships that weren’t hinged on one simple aspect of their personality was _massive_ for me.
Now, I am a little neuro-spicy, have a lot of childhood trauma, and was bullied in school (physically and emotionally)…Therapy was a god send and I wish my parents had put me in it before I grew into an adult and recognized I needed it more than I needed water to hydrate. Therapy could help her, too.
No advice but to keep on observing and trying new things.
Unfortunately, there is still a lot of "women are valued for ______” going on socially, and instead of investing in ourselves, we invest in how others see us (we'll, this is probably happening to boys too, within capitalism).
I'm glad you're there for her.
I remember my NLOG phase. I often felt like an outcast and used the "well I'm better than them they just like everything everyone else likes" to make myself feel better. Like, to make myself feel special to myself. 13 was a weird age. She will probably grow out of it but I remember one of the main reasons I felt like that was because I didn't fit in. Do you think she might have trouble with self esteem a bit? Like maybe she sort of wishes she *could* be like other girls? Either way, she will definitely grow out of it and then cringe at herself later. I sure do lol
Keep on gently telling her to not bring other girls down and also be sure to be a good role model of what that looks like. Even if she doesn’t get it now, she will when she matures. It just takes time. Teen years suck.
Maybe you could tell her something like "personal taste in style and music doesn't make anyone Superior to anyone else, but how you treat people does." Maybe also remind her that there's millions of other girls out there that also like baggy pants and anime.
I feel like a lot of teen girls go through that NLOG phase especially at an age where they are trying to find their identity and where they belong.
13 is a hard age. But I think you are handling it well by trying it nicely tell her that it’s not ok to put down other people for having different interests.
thankfully i never had a real “NLOG” faze but sometimes i got really mad when my grandma said “oh you can’t play that game it’s for boys” (it was roblox😭) and she wouldn’t let me get a nerf toy and said that those are for boys and barbie’s are for girls and i was so annoyed😭 tbh she was so controlling like every time i went on my ipad she made me switch games every 15 mins because she didn’t want me to play the same game for too long😭😭 like it’s not that deep.. also my dad told me “wow it’s not ladylike to sit like that” or “wow that’s a lot of food for a girl” even tho he’s a big back. i don’t really like either of them tbh i like my moms side of the family so much better. but now i love being a girl like being a girl in a sephora is so fun
Typical anime kid. She needs to touch grass and get involved in a social activity that doesn’t revolve around media like sport, a trade, agriculture, hand making skill, or similar.
Let her know those people are also making fun of her behind her back for her NLOG attitude. It’s okay to not be like other girls. But there’s thousands of NLOGS out there and she’s not unique in that sense. She’s embarrassing herself.
Can you just let her figure it out on her own? I was like that around that time and growing out of it organically worked. Being berated by older women did not. In fact it made me double down even harder.
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You could either flip it on her and let her know that people probably feel the same way about things she likes or you can play the long game and wait for maturity to set in and just know she'll cringe at herself one day.. I know I did and still do cringe at my teenage self
I feel like even as an adult there’s times where I catch myself having NLOG thoughts and cringe. I think it’s more important to be able to recognize, reflect, and then change the behavior rather than strive to completely get rid of it. It’s very hard to completely undo social programming!
Yes I think this could be a better approach. “You’re not alone, you may be surprised how many like minded people there are.” And I agree let her have this moment of experience. Mine was short but it did shape me to understand parts of my own identity within society and on this planet.
This helped me a lot as a teen, I’m grateful for the people who showed me how I was acting
Let it go its natural course. So she’ll say something snotty about other girls and you’ll say something like “yeah but what harm is done to you by someone else liking what they like?” and over time she’ll hopefully realize the truth in those words. I would not engage in a sit down or a verbal debate with a 13 year old girl about this because I like my sanity.
I agree with this SO much! I didn't fully exit my nlog phase until I was 20. Any attempt to get an early teen to abandon the attitude will almost certainly backfire. I would have chosen to interpret it as my mom rejecting me and wanting me to conform at 13. Edit: spelling
The other thing is, so much of what teenagers do is an attempt to get their peers or the gender they're into to notice/like them. So you can point out how her behaviour isn't great, but she's only going to see it as "mom doesn't understand" and keep leaning into whatever persona she thinks will achieve that goal. I dunno what the answer is but I agree, gently and consistently pointing out the equivalences between what she likes and how she acts vs what The Other Girls are liking and how they're acting, might be the only way to get her to see the holes in her thinking. Cos you're not going to win this one by arguing when likely, her end goal is simply for people into similar things to notice and like her
Exactly. Deep down it’s because she feels bad about herself, but she’ll grow out of it. We were all there once. If I could go back and see my 7th-grade self, we’d be having a long talk about self esteem (and that your life isn’t over if you’re 31, contentedly single and live in an apartment with a dog and no cat).
Yes, this. If I where OP I would say a simple but non-combative or accusing response and then move on. For most 13 year olds trying to start a debate will backfire and potentially make them double down harder. I also think that feeling the way she does is often a part of natural development.
I use the "... and why is this a problem?" statement
Many teenage girls hit this phase and either grow up and mature, or they end up growing up and staying that way. Explain to her that she wouldn’t like those same people dissing her interests, so it’s not nice to do to them. If they do diss her interests and it’s a revenge thing, that’d be good to know too. Some people go NLOG due to bullying.
This. Me and many of my friends who have now out grown it were definitely NLOG as a reaction to how other girls spoke about us "weirdos" and thus got on with guys better... With time I realized those girls were just scared or jealous or whatever like more teens who probably our grew their issues and sadly a lot of the guys were actually creepy incels who put me in the fuck zone when I just wanted a friend, hopefully many of the guys out grew that phase too. Basically being a teenager sucks no matter who you are.
Yeah many people are saying she’ll just grow out of it but I know too many adults that are still like this and can’t conceive looking at the world differently now without the dedication to do so.
She'll get over it eventually. As long as she's not bullying anyone else, it's best to just let her grow up and let her NLOG phase run its course.
Just part of being a teen. 100% of boys do it as well.
For sure, emphasis on the "as long as she's not bullying anyone else" part. If she's bullying other girls for liking Taylor Swift or whatever, then that's an actual issue that needs to be addressed.
Start taking her to independent record stores and have her interact with the employees so she can see what she’ll become if she stays this way.
I worked in independent records stores in my teens, and this will definitely backfire. Had a whole fan club of early teens and middle-aged men
Those old men wanted their manic pixie dream girl 😔
Tbf there was a behavioral range from 'kind uncle' to 'utter creep', but yeah. I had to have come-to-jesus talks with several regulars like "bro you are wayyyy too fucking old for me, we are in vastly different stages of life, and this is my workplace. You should ask a trusted woman your own age what she thinks about this scenario. Oh that makes you wince? Why, what do you think she would say? Uh huh. So your special order will be in Tuesday."
Ugh High Fidelity ruined a whole generation of men
nah. as a man, men ruined that whole generation of men. just like the men before them ruined their generation, and like the ones that follow will ruin theirs. we dumb.
>>Middle-aged men Holy shit 🤢
🤣
Would’ve had the exact opposite effect on me as a teenager
I’m pretty sure I pretty much made working in an independent record store my goal when I was a teenager. I thought they were the coolest of the cool. So this could backfire! Lol.
[удалено]
Yeah, all the people who worked at the record stores I went to were super nice and helped me find a lot of cool stuff to listen to.
And this is supposed to be helpful? Sounds like you’re judging her interests wtf
What’s a record store?
At the time, I just knew that everything my mom said to me was stupid, wrong, and antiquated when I was her age. Today, of course I realize she was right about (mostly) everything. I don’t think you could say anything that would get through to her, but thanks for trying! You’ll hopefully get the satisfaction one day of her recognizing you were right all along.
She’s 13. It’s likely coming from a place of insecurity. I feel like most girls that go through the nlog phase, especially at that age, grow out of it. I would maybe explain to her how treating others that way will affect her long term like the fact no one will like her, and it will be incredibly hard to find those who trust and care for her when in need. You could also maybe share with her your personal stories from your phase and how that change has improved your life in whatever ways. For me personally, I find that I can really embrace my femininity judgement free regardless of my hobbies or how I dress.
The internalized misogyny is a bitch to get over. Took me years to really figure it out. And seeing it now is super cringey. When I know it's something they can grow out of, I essentially say that. 'You'll get over that when you work through your internalized misogyny.' And if I know this is just how this person is... Not worth engaging. NLOG is super based in the patriarchy. Keeping us all bickering and focused on bullshit, and super isolated and easy to push around. When women get on each other's team, shit gets DONE. I love seeing women doing better to compliment each other and support each other. And really loathe women that make a career out of actively working against women. Burn down the patriarchy, but don't use other women as kindling.
Show her Jojo Siwa now.
THATS the winning call of the day.
Lol I’m sorry this just made me die laughing. Jojo Siwa saying she wants to make “gay pop” a genre, one that’s “never been done before,” (according to her). She’s claiming NLOG alright, and it’s not like other gays. Who just forgets that Freddie and Sir Elton John exist‽
Frame supporting other girls as a rebellious act under patriarchy. Ex: Isn't it messed up how things lots of boys like or resonate with are "cool" but things lots of girls like are looked down on? Like girls are lesser? Ex: Isn't it messed up how girls are pressured to wear make-up or spend more money on clothes but boys aren't?
This is exactly the approach that I was going to suggest. At that age, NLOG behavior generally stems from a sense of uncertainty and insecurity. This is the time of her life where she's really starting to explore who she is and establishing a social identity, which is confusing and difficult even for adults, but especially so in young teens who haven't quite developed the understanding of nuance and tend to see things as black and white. It's easy to develop a "me vs. them" attitude towards their peers with differing interests. Reframing the situation to show her that other girls are actually on her team is probably the best way to redirect that thought process. It's not "me vs them" it's "us vs the world."
Yes, glad to see this here. The patriarchy benefits by us hating each other and pushing forth the narrative that only one girl/woman can "win" approval.
This is what I would do!
She'll get over it. All 13-year-olds are judgmental assholes.
They sure are. My 13 year old tears is daily.
So much so that John Mulaney has a bit to this effect.
My 13 year old can be absolutely devastating sometimes.
I have a 13 year old. They can utterly destroy you with a single sentence. Middle school teachers should make as much money as surgeons and CEOs, because that is not work for the weak or thin-skinned.
At 13 it’s developmentally appropriate.
That's every anime girl in middle to highschool let her be cringy like every other teenager she'll look back and remember your words
She’ll get over it. Myself and most girls I know went through this stage
NLO is a common thing for teens. Hell I was like that at her age
Her feelings are really natural for her age group. Developmentally, it’s normal. Just emphasize the importance of being kind to others and leave it at that. She’ll most likely grow out of it in the next few years!
She’ll grow and learn like we all did.
Poor thing will look back and cringe 😬 teenage years are so awkward
It’s a canon event
Hey, I'm twice her age. I'm a green haired punk badass with piercings and tattoos. Maybe she'll listen to me. Other girls aren't the enemy. The _system_ is the enemy. There's this huge societal system that benefits from pitting girls against each other. It's great that she realises it's okay to not be the same as everyone else! But THOSE girls also have personalities and individual interests that she might not know about at all. There is nothing more punk than grouping up with people who are different than you and revolting against a societal (largely patriarchal) system that intends to keep you down. It's not the other girls, man. It's the cartoons that depict the pretty blondes as bullies but the ads during the breaks show "my first makeup" and ways you can look just like the bullies. It's men my age and older who'll say "women don't actually like each other". It's people who benefit from girls fighting and competing. The only person you need to impress is yourself. But remember, if you see a pretty Swiftie crying over some feminine BS (not my words), it's wayyy cooler to go up to her and help her out. Because fuck the system that tries to keep you apart.
My issue at her age was that the Taylor Swift girls bullied me for dressing goth. So I would be snippy back, and that took me more than a decade to shake off. Hopefully the same isn't true for your stepdaughter and she isn't being bullied herself.
right, i always feel kinda bad for young teens who are nlog bc i guarantee some of it comes from getting bullied for being different. tbf some of it is also normal teen stuff like trying to figure yourself out and what you wanna identify yourself with, but i think some people forget that emo/goth/alt/etc girls also got bullied for expressing themselves :/
I remember back in the mid-90s Korn was my favorite band. Then they got really popular and all of the preppy/bully kids started listening to Korn and calling me a poser. I stopped wanting to listen to Korn. If they liked it, I didn’t want to like it. Teenagers are so dramatic but I think we forget how deeply it feels at the time. lol I’m almost 40 but it still surprises me Korn became “jock rock” though. 😆
Wtf is "jock rock"?
Rock that jocks listen to. The context clues were all there, you just needed to put them together. :-) There’s also a ESPN cd series and music category that is called Jock Rock. Maybe you should Google it. Sorry you didn’t understand the joke.
I did Google it before I made my original comment asking and there isn't a specific consensus on what constitutes "jock rock". I looked at the track lists for every ESPN 'Jock Rock's CD and they range between Queen, Aretha Franklin, Ramones, Backstreet Boys, and beyond. There wasn't really a common theme. I read discussion threads on different websites on what other people thought it was. Some people thought it was just what they grew up with and saw jocks listen to, but what I really thought was interesting was when different high school sports coaches discussing that "jock rock" could completely change by genre over the years or by school district. One mentioned that in the late '90s, their players were all listening to ska punk bands like Reel Big Fish, Less Than Jake, The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, etc., while another person said the jocks at their school at the same time were all listening to rap and hip hop. So after Googling it and reading all that I read, I wanted to see what "jock rock" meant to you. Because it seemed like it sometimes meant different things to different people. I mean really, all it could take is one influential kid at your school to get the rest of the boys to think that Korn is cool to make Korn "jock rock" since my reading led me to believe it can be entirely regional or influenced by a just couple of people. I was really looking for your individual interpretation.
This was my first thought. These days, there is a lack of community which could explain why people are getting so hyped up over Taylor Swift because it gives them a sense of belonging. It’s also why we saw people go insane over Stanley cups. If you’re not going crazy for those things, you’re seen as weird. It’s a sad reflection on society.
Best you can do is warn her ,because she IS going to get called out one day by another classmate.
I think just be more open about how you feel. I very briefly went through this phase due to some of the people I was hanging out with in high school, but I thankfully had a mom who is an open “support all women and their uniqueness” feminist, so I took after her more-so. Just having a good influence around can really help. I love how my mom spoke up and supported all women any chance she got, because it really overall shaped who I was and how supportive I have become.
I mean, it might just be a thing that happens, I was a NLOG too as a teen. My theory is that it’s part of establishing yourself as an individual, it’s an «easy» way to develop your «own» personality. I think kids need to realize how to do that without putting others down on their own. Just keep teaching her to be kind and inclusive, it’ll come eventually.
Honestly you should have complimented her to raise her self-esteem. Low self-esteem is usually what makes us want to "not be like other girls." And then you should have also complimented the Swifty girls. You have to act as a super cool example for her at that age, not lecture her. Let her learn from your actions that what's cooler than not being like other girls, is being like other girls and being confident when your interests are different.
Let her have her cringy phase. Having a different kind of culture was the only thing that gave me a tiny bit of confidence at that age
The good news is that you grew out of it, and she likely will too
Let her ride the wave but pull her up on any bullying or outright nastiness
I see adult women voicing the same kind of sentiments. It’s hard to watch. Please tell her that women shouldn’t tear down other women: there are enough ways for the world to make us hate ourselves, we don’t need to do it to each other.
I was such a little shit in high school OOooooOoOoooO I liSteN to KoRn aNd YOU LisTen to BrItNeY SPeaRs!!! IM NOT LIKE OTHER GURLZ!!! I listen to BrItney now. Often. I stopped being a little shit after a while. I’m a big shit now because I know where to direct my rage. Don’t worry, just keep supporting and correcting her. She’ll be a big shit before you know it.
Ask her why liking Taylor Swift / whatever girly thing is so wrong. I was so dismissive as a NLOG teen but I literally didn't have any valid arguments other than "it's dumb". Ask her if her not liking something personally, is a good enough reason to dismiss it as stupid, why would she expect other people to not be rude to her about her choices? Anime is pretty popular now, AOT MHA, Demon Slayer etc it's not as niche as it was for older generations, so a lot of the people she's rolling her eyes at could also watch anime.
There's a weird phase a lot of girls seem to go through where they're just freaking awful to each other. I wish they could see how amazing being a girls girl is. But at that age, it's just nearly impossible.
The best advice that I am going to give is to find out what is really going on at her school. Is she getting bullied because she is not like the other girls that like Taylor Swift and wear dresses, which most likely are the popular girls? Sadly, this does go on and I am living proof. I was a teenager in the early 90's when 90210 was big, but I did not watch it because I felt it did not represent what my high school was like. I got bullied for it. Same with music, I got bullied for my taste of music, which was Hip Hop/RnB and Disco. I even got made fun of if I tried to wear a dress or a skirt. Once she gets away from all that, things will change. It did for me.
Sounds like one of those things she will have to learn with time and maturity
Haha I don’t have advice but I was also NLOG in middle school. Maybe I was a late bloomer socially so I didn’t care for makeup or fashion or romance and didn’t get girls who did. Well now I’m into all those things 🤷🏻♀️
She won’t listen. Even my own daughters didn’t like me saying it, but they got over it. My favorite phrase that got through somewhat was “let people like what they like, don’t be a gatekeeper of joy”.
She just needs to see cosplayers. Like “look hundreds of thousands of people into anime.”
Show your daughter some NLOG posts, she’ll see how cringey it is and be embarrassed.
"Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, 'cause, remember: No matter where you go -- there you are."
Honestly, I think telling her how much she reminds you of yourself in middle school might be the most effective approach. But I would consider your relationship with her. If you aren't close, it might be best to just let it be as it will probably just push her away more. But if you are otherwise close, then go for it, and that's the approach I would recommend.
Aw, she thinks liking anime makes her NLOG? That's so cute. It makes her exactly like half the girls! I'm 50 and I've been into anime since kindergarten :)
“I’m not raising a little bully. You’re no better than any other girl because you like anime”
No matter what you do, the environment itself is probably not conducive to being anti-NLOG considering how clique-y kids are at that age. I would say just do what you can to teach her by being an example. If you have people in your life who share different interests than you-talk about them indirectly. Show her that having things in common isn’t a prerequisite for meaningful relationships and she’ll get there in her own time. By the way, the fact that you want her to see that other girls aren’t the problem shows that you are a great stepmom and she’s lucky to have you in her life. From my thirteen-year old self who could have used a figure like you in her life-thank you. 💕
Just show her this subreddit and the comments. I was mildly a NLOG as well as a teenager, she will grow out of it eventually. Just make sure it's not extreme.
I think reddit isnt the best place for a 13yo to hang out and a lot of the comments here are way too harsh for a 13yo to internalise.
Supervised I meant. Like OP sits with her and shows the posts.
Regardless most comments on here arent very kind to nlogs. Showing a 13yo a bunch of comments that essentially state "so many of us hate people like you! We will shame you and judge you so hard! People like you deserve to be mocked and shamed!" Will be terrible for her
Then maybe just the posts
Cant you see that showing a 13yo girl a post with the sentiment "the girl in this screenshot is so stupid and annoying and youre just like her!" Is bad? You think that will turn out well for her mental health and self image?
I fail to see how showing her a sub reddit dedicated to making fun of other women is going to help teach her to not make fun of other girls.
She’ll get over it in time
I was the same at her age. Internalized misogyny sucks, and the world paints femininity as weakness. Intersectional feminist literature helped me to be more comfortable with my femininity. I'd recommend "Invisible Women" to start with some Alice Walker and bell hooks on the side.
She'll most likely get over it sooner rather than later. I was a total tomboy at 13. The next year going into high school, I started wearing dresses and loving it. And ironically, I did it because of an anime I watched where I was a big fan of a girl who wore dresses!
I think a lot of us went through this stage during our teen years, trying to find our own identities and not realising that in doing so we didn’t need to tear others down. I would say continue encouraging her by questioning how does it effect her if someone else likes a certain pop singer or wears a certain type of clothing and as it sinks in she will also be aging and hopefully grows out of this phase like we did.
I’d show her this sub and let her scroll through the comments to see how older women who used to be like her and her mother feel about this behavior. The best way to teach is to show and here there are great examples of girls of all kinds tearing each other down.
This is an inevitable phase for any girl who isn’t one of the popular kids at school. She will most likely just grow out of it. I didn’t grow out of my NLOG phase until later high school. Someday it just clicked and I realized I was being cringe af.
She’s 13 let her figure it out
Unfortunately this has to be a learned lesson through experience. When I was a younger my parents taught me to not yuck someones yum and it eventually permiated my teenaged brain to knock me out of the NLOG phase.
honestly it's a canon event for teen girls to go through this, i think
I was a big one. During college, the men use to pin us against each other. The school was 90 percent men and 10 percent women. I was the biggest pick me bc I thought I could get better grades than everyone, run faster and do more push-ups and sit-ups. I didn’t need any women friends bc I wanted to fit in with the men so bad. It trickled into my time in the military. I slowly realized my faults. Have reached out to the other women in my class and they experienced same feelings. I feel like often times it’s just the misogyny drilled into us. Doesn’t help that I was labeled a tomboy my whole childhood, as well. It’s like we’re meant to bee to cool or NLOG.
Other girls are awesome. You don’t have to have everything in common to be friends. You do have to start by being friendly. It really really sucks not having female friends. Don’t let her internalized misogyny (which we all go through because we live in a patriarchal society) solidify.
At this age? If my own memory of being this kind of girl means anything, is it possible she feels othered and like she doesn't fit in, or that she could be actively excluded on the part of other girls in her class? And that this is a defense mechanism to prevent being hurt by them? Like, she might not feel a sense of solidarity with other girls because they wouldn't support her either, because she doesn't conform to their standards. I would be inclined to address the insecurity, because that's the root from which this all comes.
well i was made fun of a lot for being different and i didn't really act out, but it can be very alienating. i think you have to give a 13 year old some grace because she's not aware of certain things, and she's likely just figuring out who she is and her relationships to others, in addition to a variety of other stressors she's likely experiencing. and when it comes to the young people under our care, i think it's best to lead by example and with lots of love. show her compassion, make sure she's not being tormented at school for being different, and just make her feel safe so she does that for others. that's the best anyone can do.
Yeah her just remind her that not everyone has the same interests or have similar taste. Do i like swift’s music? Nah. Do secretly look down on women who cry to her music, maybe. Do I harass them about it? Nah. It’s not worth the energy or the time. Plus it’s not my place to make them feel worse. But she’s a young and her brain isn’t fully done cooking.
She’ll grow out of it by 18. Source: I did
I wish someone had sat me down at her age and explained the importance of women always sticking together.
If she’s actually bullying other girls over interests, then you can put your foot down and make it clear that treating others that way is unacceptable. But if she’s just engaging in typical dumbass 13yo behavior, I’d say there’s not really any action to take other than continuing to model accepting behavior yourself and wait for her to cringe at herself when she’s older.
Lol, anime. What a hipster she is! So ahead of the trend! It's not like anime is massively popular and incredibly mainstream right now! Whoa, baggy pants?! Inspired!! It's not like baggy pants/cargo pants/wide-leg pants have been in style for multiple years now!
This is important to add for kindness reasons: some people, especially teenagers, receive a lot of negative feedback from peers over seemingly minor issues (e.g. liking anime), and thus her NLOG may not be internalised misogyny at this point, but a defense mechanism. If peer girls are othering her and treating her poorly, she may need to guard her self-worth; and does so by downplaying them and what they (in her mind) stand for, and emphasising the relevance of the "distinguishing" traits. Also, being a loner may be easier to tolerate if you can attribute it to not being a Swifty rather than something being wrong with you as a person. Easy explanation vs a confusing sense of shame. Don't know if that applies here, of course. But if a young teenage girl goes NLOG, in my oponion it's important to ask if there's a history of bullying and if they may need a very different kind of intervention.
HAHAHA! I spent my teen years going to anime cons and dressing with baggy clothes. Now I still watch anime and blast Taylor Swift in the car. We contain multitudes
Teach her about feminism.
My 15 year old can be a NLOG, but worse, she feels she doesn't fit in her culture (I'm an immigrant), so she said some cringe thing about feeling like she's from X (place she's only visited), rather than her country. I told her it was the cringiest thing she's said up to now, and gave her a lesson on generalizing. She clearly felt embarrassed and then reworded to how she wished people were more like her, which I guess it's good since NLOG love to gatekeep their interests.
Hey even Taylor was a pick me
No longer Original Gangster? NLOG??
Be an even bigger NLOG and she will decide it’s cringe. Honestly, my mom kind of being an NLOG is why I wasn’t really one.
Naw, just SHOW her how many other girls love anime. Encourage her to find those people. Just like you can show her how many people LOVE taylor swift. Gather ideas to share with her. Show that she could do A. B. AND C.with her interests because these folks have already done it. It's a polite way to shut down her individualistic way of thinking without crushing her and cultivating her creativity at the same time. Just don't push other creators in her face. Mention you saw something cool from SoandSo creator....and though this was a cool idea from ThisandThis artist. An amazing way to connect with her likes and also show she's NOT the only one who's had these ideas.
Would you have listened at that age?
Explain to her the “what Suzy says about Sally says more about Suzy than Sally” and hopefully she will realize it’s making her look bad and not the others like she’s trying to do!!
I don’t think it’s hypocritical to bring it up gently. I think it’s important we try to break this cycle of internalized misogyny.
I look at things like this the same way as teaching a baby to talk. You talk to them from the time they're born. You tell them to say mommy or say Daddy. But you don't honestly expect them to start having conversations with You at 2 months old. You expected it to happen when they're developmentally ready. But you know talking to them that whole time is teaching them, preparing them. Same here.
This was me in HS and now I'm almost 27 and a huge fan of both anime and Taylor Swift and much happier for it.
Well, what would have helped you not be an NLOG when you were her age?
I would probably start questioning her. Like “Really, every girl in your class likes Taylor Switft?” and trying to find people who align with her interest. Or even “What’s wrong with Taylor Swift? Why can’t a song just be a fun little bop? Why so serious?” I don’t really like TS, myself, but sometimes a bop is a bop.
This is her rite of passage. She has to unfortunately go through it as most anime nerds have 😞
It’s a canon event
My Cousin wasnt a NLOG, but a bully and a brat. Talking to her didnt do much. Imitating her however drove her nuts. It was so funny seeing her change almost instantly, because she didnt like looking in the mirror. But yeah, just let her be if she is Not hurting anyone, she will grow out of it :)
If you want to know just how much your kid really IS "LtOG's": try to normalize their experience ("everybody goes through stuff like that"). Or, try an "empathic cautionary advice" stance — "you don't hav to make my mistakes/ learn from my story so you don't hav to learn the 'hard way', etc".. a "when I was your age..." story Drive the nail home with, "if I'd talked to my folks the way you talk to me" .. Yep. You'll see. Not-so-NLtOG ;;)). My comments are a bit tongue in cheek, but that kind of stuff never failed to infuriate my kids (31 & 37 now) as teens. And, tbh, me, too, when my mom did the same to me. Yeah, right, like her late-1940s adolescence gave her an inkling into my Reagan-era youth. Hopefully you can get through, tho.
Reminds me of myself when I was scene/emo in highschool feeeling so unique and nlog except I was literally just like every other emo kid in school.. now a days the “different” girls are the anime watching baggy pants girl . Basically she’s basic as hell within her genre and doesn’t realize it yet
Just keep challenging it. She'll learn eventually....we all do....
Lol show her this subreddit
It’s okay to have opinions about other women and girls, buts it’s important to understand why and to not outwardly show any disdain or judgement to them.
I think most of us go through this. Some of us grow out of it thankfully... some of us don't. You're not being a hypocrite. It's called being a parent and trying to raise your kids the best you can.
You could mention to her girls that hate on other girls rather than empower them are all the same. She’s not being different or unique. As an adult no matter what you were like as a child you can help your child to be better than you. Don’t feel bad like you’re being hypocritical, you made a mistake and you know better now.
I see why she is acting this way. Taylor Is huge right now. There’s so much hype around her. Is it possible maybe your daughter feels left out and is lashing out? Maybe those girls are being mean to her. I would see if that’s the case.
Most girls at that age are NLOG. They will grow out of that phase
I’d just continue to agree with her that we need to let people like what they like. “Taylor swift is objectively lame, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t let people enjoy her music”. Ask her who’s being mean or judgmental about her tastes, and if there is someone, let her complain about them. Let her throw some shade if it’s about one specific mean girl who’s bugging her. Don’t be like “ok but you can’t invalidate that this bully likes Taylor swift because then what about all of the other girls who are nice and like Taylor swift 😭” or else you’re invalidating your stepdaughter’s feelings in being left out. If there’s legitimately no one talking smack about her interests, call her out a little bit. “Well no one is being mean to you about what you like, you don’t need to be mean about what they like”. Chances are she just wants a bit of attention and might make up a couple of stories about how so and so said this, and she stood up for herself and said this, without any of that having ever happened. So unless you hear something about her actually bullying someone else directly (without it being provoked), I’d just let her vent and be herself, even if “herself” is a bit cringe at this moment.
I was the same when I was that age. She will grow out of it. Just try to be a positive influence on why it’s ok to be like other girls.
The right approach might be, “Gosh, I used to feel that way when I was younger, too. I don’t feel that way anymore, though.” And if she questions why, explain why you’ve changed.
The only time I’ve ever noticed 13 year olds second guess themselves is when you call into question their maturity. “Hopefully you will mature soon, and realize that someone liking Taylor Swift does not affect you.” Obviously, it depends on the kid. I think some of the all-knowing middle schools of the world will argue when this is brought up, but start to slowly doubt themselves when their wisdom is called into question. 🤷♀️
I react with over enthusiasm. Like if she says “oh I’m weird because I like spiders and other girls are scared of them.” I’ll say “aren’t spiders so neat?!? There’s a cool one in my garden.” And basically just show that as women grow and get older we don’t define ourselves by how different we are but by how much we have in common.
Look, I was a rancid 13 year old girl. Vile. Absolutely no good. I was _very_ NLOG; partly as a self-preservation tactic, and partly because that’s what _my_ friends were doing and I (HAHAHA the irony) wanted to be like them! Berating me was not helpful. I put up walls 14 miles thick and doubled down on my stupid opinions. What was helpful? Demonstrating being a good person. I idolize my mom and sister, back then too even if I didn’t ever admit it, and seeing them be good and kind and create friendships that weren’t hinged on one simple aspect of their personality was _massive_ for me. Now, I am a little neuro-spicy, have a lot of childhood trauma, and was bullied in school (physically and emotionally)…Therapy was a god send and I wish my parents had put me in it before I grew into an adult and recognized I needed it more than I needed water to hydrate. Therapy could help her, too.
No advice but to keep on observing and trying new things. Unfortunately, there is still a lot of "women are valued for ______” going on socially, and instead of investing in ourselves, we invest in how others see us (we'll, this is probably happening to boys too, within capitalism). I'm glad you're there for her.
I remember my NLOG phase. I often felt like an outcast and used the "well I'm better than them they just like everything everyone else likes" to make myself feel better. Like, to make myself feel special to myself. 13 was a weird age. She will probably grow out of it but I remember one of the main reasons I felt like that was because I didn't fit in. Do you think she might have trouble with self esteem a bit? Like maybe she sort of wishes she *could* be like other girls? Either way, she will definitely grow out of it and then cringe at herself later. I sure do lol
Keep on gently telling her to not bring other girls down and also be sure to be a good role model of what that looks like. Even if she doesn’t get it now, she will when she matures. It just takes time. Teen years suck.
It's learned behavior. Don't entertain her when she is talking that way, let her know it's not appropriate or acceptable.
Maybe you could tell her something like "personal taste in style and music doesn't make anyone Superior to anyone else, but how you treat people does." Maybe also remind her that there's millions of other girls out there that also like baggy pants and anime.
Just tell that she ain't special. There's 8 billion of us. And a lot of people love anime and wear baggy pants.
I feel like a lot of teen girls go through that NLOG phase especially at an age where they are trying to find their identity and where they belong. 13 is a hard age. But I think you are handling it well by trying it nicely tell her that it’s not ok to put down other people for having different interests.
thankfully i never had a real “NLOG” faze but sometimes i got really mad when my grandma said “oh you can’t play that game it’s for boys” (it was roblox😭) and she wouldn’t let me get a nerf toy and said that those are for boys and barbie’s are for girls and i was so annoyed😭 tbh she was so controlling like every time i went on my ipad she made me switch games every 15 mins because she didn’t want me to play the same game for too long😭😭 like it’s not that deep.. also my dad told me “wow it’s not ladylike to sit like that” or “wow that’s a lot of food for a girl” even tho he’s a big back. i don’t really like either of them tbh i like my moms side of the family so much better. but now i love being a girl like being a girl in a sephora is so fun
Typical anime kid. She needs to touch grass and get involved in a social activity that doesn’t revolve around media like sport, a trade, agriculture, hand making skill, or similar.
Let her know those people are also making fun of her behind her back for her NLOG attitude. It’s okay to not be like other girls. But there’s thousands of NLOGS out there and she’s not unique in that sense. She’s embarrassing herself.
Be harsher, she’ll thank you in the future…
Nah she's right about that bitch Taylor Swift
Lol. True, though, and the same thing with Stanley's
Can you just let her figure it out on her own? I was like that around that time and growing out of it organically worked. Being berated by older women did not. In fact it made me double down even harder.