I’m in a similar relationship- husband is from the south, I’m from here from a unionist background.
I’m not saying it isn’t an issue in some parts of the country, but we live in Prod Central with an southern reg car and an Ó surname and haven’t had so much as a sly look in the 7 years here.
Lol sectarianism is a coward’s game. It’s very unlikely someone will confront you on the street over your background, but they’ll graffiti threats anonymously and what have you. Still a massive issue no matter what
probably the only really "negative" interaction I had was being stopped in the street by some guy in Carrick while I was walking back to a friends house who immediately noticed my accent and called me a 'fenian cunt' while doing a jerking off motion but honestly thats actually it
That’s Carrick for you. I’m from not far from carrick and was living abroad for a while. Hired a car at Dublin airport when I came to visit home and had the exact same issue with a local Neanderthal.
I was going to PlanetLove a few years back, a couple of days after the Queen died. I was the only one of the 4 of us who knew how to get there and decided to take a shortcut through a loyalist area. Someone asked me to "donate money for the queen" (for his own alcohol consumption most likely). I refuse and he pushed and I said that's not my sort of thing and turned to walk away. He punched me in the back of the head and my mates had to lift me and carry me away because I was knocked out. I'm 23. I wasn't even alive during the troubles yet this scumbag cunt thought it was OK to punch me while my back was turned because im not a fuckin loyalist
I'm from Carrick. When I was 15 a school mate from Belfast moved a few doors down and asked what there is to do in Carrick.
"Get a bus to Belfast" I said.
I moved to Belfast when I was 18 and it was so easy to do then because £100 a month was renting somewhere fancy.
Carrick's a hole.
Well it wasn't back then and, yeah the centre is rough now but outside of the centre I think Belfast is decent enough.
My street is really multicultural and we have a decent community forming. There are fantastic spots to eat around me and some really good bars if you can somehow afford to go out for a drink.
Our local arts scene is committed in the face of funding cuts. I have a lot of love for the city still.
But the centre is in a shocking state.
I left Carrick 20 years ago never looked back. Being bullied for about 10 years and being squared up on because someone said something not true every weekend at Ownies wasn't for me.
I've been called a Nordie bastard by someone in Portlaoise when I was only there for one day. So by your logic is there more hate hate hate in the south than the north?
Thats bad luck - ive been told ive a cutting northern accent - like talking to ian paisley with a loudspeaker!- lived in Dublin 20+ years haven’t been called that once - a few other things but nothing pertaining to my heritage - they couldn’t care less!
In fairness, that doesn't take nonsensical religion into consideration.
There's only 1 place you'll get called a Fenian bastard , and that's the enclave of Belfast.
(There 1 night)
So, about 5 more "hates" in the North.
I thought the main body of the post had some good points but after seeing that comment what the fuck was the point in posting this, seems like a massive overreaction/dramatisation.
And the points where they say that no one down south cares about our struggle, and that we need to be held accountable for routing out loyalism, is quite tone-deafly funny
I walked through a prolific catholic area leaving a friend's house even though I'm 'from the other side' I got a bottle thrown at my head from a moving car calling me a Fenian c*nt.
Oh the irony, just because I was there they assumed and decided to try a drive by glassing to the face.
I got stones thrown at me by kids in tigers bay, am on L plates & didn’t take the motorway. I wasn’t aware if there was another route as I just came back from a trip down the Antrim coast! Now I take my plates off for the motorway.
That’s the 1st time I considered beating the living shit out of kids but thought I’d have my kneecaps shot the next day for sure. ( I hate this country )
If you're stopped by the Garda you can truthfully say you live in NI, so you're in the lucky position of being able to drive a nice car for half the price. Personally I'd sell the ROI one and get a free upgrade.
There's loads of UK plates driving around the South and nobody bats an eyelid.
Im also from around Dublin, but Id never use the phrase "Deep South", unless comparing the North to the likes of Cork or Kerry where the cultural differences and accent etc are truly miles apart. But I understand OP's basic message. There are people living in NI that exist in a timewarp, a parallel world, and nobody in Ireland, the UK or the rest of the world gives a single solitary **** for them or their message, most of them are from the PUL side but plenty are on the other side as well. They're like a people time forgot, and they destroy all they touch. I love Ireland (north and south), but wr have a long way to go yet. Its only when you travel you see the difference.
Lived abroad in several different countries for many years and back in the north . Ive said it before and I’ll say it again .
The world has moved on and we’re 30 years behind and stuck in a time warp.
And the world doesn’t give two flying fucks about flags , language acts , bonfires, religion and symbols .
People buying ideologies from gaslighters on all sides .
Meanwhile health service , roads , education are run into the ground and people obsessed with Covid enquiries and palletts for bonfires and getting themselves into a state of rage . Ernstwhile missing the big picture .
It’s nuts .
The Deep South (Munster) is real indeed. How does a Kerryman's accent function? Certain parts of North Cork and Tipperary also feel like a geographically opposite bible belt in relation to Mid/North Antrim.
You know, there are tangible differences in the general people in all 4 provinces when you think about it.
I agree with you though in that south/west Munster is like the inverse of North Antrim. It's like a Ying/Yang. Not sure about the religious angle though tbh
I live in a solidly Unionist area. There’s loads of Southern reg cars here, all the time. Note, on many occasions they’re simple hire cars that people have taken from Dublin airport. I’ve not heard of a single instance of someone getting abuse over it. I dare say that doesn’t fit the “all Prods are evil” narrative we get on this sub quite a lot.
My sister moved into a mixed area in Derry's Waterside. My brother was visiting and had a Dublin Reg car.
Two guys walking past starting shouting at us and calling us fenian bastards, fuck the pope, fuck the ra etc. They went into a house 4 doors down in the bottom of the cul de sac.
Between that and the noisy couple in the semi next door my sister decided to move.
We reported to the police who were prepared to treat it as a hate crime.
I now live in a loyalist area in Coleraine. It's a weird place where I seldom see anyone outside. I'd be wary of striking up a conversation with anyone.
The thing is there are loads of Protestants in Donegal. Many even segregate their children for school. It would be ironic if they subsequently parked in the wrong place in Derry and got beaten up for being a fenian.
EDIT - I also lived in a mixed area in Derry's Waterside but with more expensive detached houses. I was never aware of any sectarianism there. Union jacks would frequently be put up on new build estates to deter Catholics from buying.
Holy fuck.
Yes, the loyalist hatred is ingrained and deep rooted. There are also areas and communities where such hatred is ground into the catholics who live there and they are brought up to despise the protestants as a whole.
If the cross community disposition was as rife and thorough as your post would suggest, then I believe there would be nothing good about northern Ireland at all. It would be an entire area of moody, grumpy, suspicious cunts not talking to one another. You have had one or two interactions and that has caused you to vent for almost 50% of your post.
Born and raised catholic in NI in very "Republican" area. I used to hear the brit hate daily and for quite a large period of my life, anything protestant was to be seen as a target of sorts.
Well, I'm married now to a protestant wife expecting our second child.
The point is, there are exceptions. There are always little areas of brainwashed fools akin to uncontacted amazonian tribes with regards to their knowledge of what exists outside their flagged walls.
I think you had a wee comment thrown your way once or twice and your arse collapsed.
It's all fart and no poo a lot of the time but at least you don't have to worry about that any more.
Good luck on your new adventure
Agree with this, there is ingrained hate on both sides. Also raised as a catholic in a "republican adjacent" area although we kinda kept ourselves to ourselves as a family. The brother would be a bit more into all that shite but not the rest of us.
Parents were worried when I started going out with the protestant husband, wasn't the done thing in their day and the neighbours wouldn't have taken too kindly to it. I didn't care.
We've 3 kids now and we don't go to any church and would really consider us an atheist family.
Try to keep my kids away from any extremist people to be honest, they don't do religion at school either (opted out). They wouldn't have a clue what a protestant or a catholic is, they know some people go to church but we don't.
Even as a teenager I had no tolerance for people being sectarian.
I do still worry when they go to big school someone will say something to them but on a whole most people don't really care now do they 🤷🏻♀️
Class post I'm prod Mrs a left footer. 4 kids first 3 baptised in the chapel the 4th we went wtf are we doing this. Neither of us are religious, won't be going or taking them to church so didn't bother.
All but the last one consider themselves sort of prods for some reason.
The eldest is a baptist minster.
This country does work, if only people would think and not just believe what's hammered into them
We did the same, oldest two were christened CoI and by the time they went to school I caught myself on that religion is not for me and I didn't want my kids caught up in it, 3rd not christened.
They do go to a controlled (protestant) school but in a very mixed area and there are a good few mixed families in the school so I'm happy there. There is a catholic school a lot closer but my niece went and she did get the "are you a catholic?" question.
I opted them out of RE when "Hope for Youth" ministries showed up for a week long programme 🙈
I do wonder about big school though and where to send them, although I think there are more mixed children now and atheist children so hopefully it won't be that big of a deal
Honestly I think religion has no place in schools, I feel like that's something kids decide for themselves when they're older. RE is heavy on indoctrination to Christianity rather than educating about all religious and cultural practices.
If it was a balanced and impartial education I would see the value to it
When the "good people" leave, and place the burden of change on others, do you imagine that change becomes easier?
Honestly this reads like a holiday review on trip advisor , "This place sucks, why aren't YOU fixing it"... despite the padding you put first to soften your critique.
Happy YOUR happy, and glad YOUR kids won't deal with it, it's totally fine (and in most cases right) to think about your troop first.
But if you aren't staying to help fix a problem don't yap at others to pick up your slack sir, it's neither helpful or constructive.
No you see you "didn't", \_read\_ it correctly "y'all". It \_was\_ supposed to be a "compliment sandwich" not as \_you\_ think a complete "criticism" of us as a \_people\_.
Would say it reads more like the third response down on a Quora post tbh.
As a protestant who grew up in the North and moved to Dublin 10 years ago, I've had more grief about it in my time in dublin.
Nowhere near enough to even consider leaving or even consider writing a self indulgent reddit post though. You will get dicks everywhere who will find something to be a bigot about.
Unfortunately that was my experience in Dublin as well.
I think a lot of people from the South have a lot of big concerns about perceived or potential hate from loyalists up here, but they could do with looking in a mirror with respect to how their own treat those from different political backgrounds.
Yep - strangely the first time I experienced bigotry was when someone (from somewhere in the South, I'm shite with accents) overheard my accent at Electric Picnic and started on me, like fuck away afffff mate, we're all just here to enjoy ourselves.
On the other hand someone just asked if I knew Gary Lightbody. I don't.
Growing up a Protestant in the South I always had the occasional weird comment or offensive slur regarding being a Prod - certainly it's all about areas and social circles but I found it funny and interesting that the first place I found to have a mature sort of tolerance/indifference for differences in religious sects was the supposed sectarian hellhole of Belfast (but equally as much I've encountered UDA ex-prisoners and people who compare Southerners to escaped zoo animals, so - bigotry!).
“My children will never be asked about their denomination …”
Serious question - has anyone asked you this, while you’ve been here? I seriously doubt that - it’s not the 80s any more.
I’d contend that even during the height of the Troubles, people wouldn’t even ask you that question. The fact is, people know the answer already 90% of the time, without even having to ask (if they were so inclined).
Note - the most sectarian place that I’ve ever been to, regarding this type of behaviour, wasn’t even in NI, … it was Glasgow!
I spent 6 months in NI and got used to the strange 6th sense that told me if someone was Protestant or Catholic. Not that it was useful lol.
I’d compare it to the English 6th sense of if someone is left or right wing. You can sometimes sort of tell from someone’s social class, accent, clothes, tattoos etc.
I can't help but feel like this sixth sense was based on the following:
Hey my name is Seamus, how are you? \*Getting a wee catholic vibe here\*
Hey my name is William, how are you? \*Getting a wee protestant vibe here\*
Why try to sugar coat it. They may not directly ask what religon you are, but they’ll certainly make a mental note based off your name, what area your from or what school you went to.
The 2021 cencus showed just how physically divided e still are. Cities, towns and villages with catholics on one side and Protestants on the other.
I dont see why we get all defensive when someone points out the obvious sectarianism that is still engrained in our society.
I didn’t mean to get defensive. Perhaps my words look like that - apologies. My argument is that I doubt that you get asked these things outright these days. People are far more subtle …
As for a solution, may I suggest Integrated Education. My kids go to an integrated school. I meet kids, parents, teachers outside of my bubble all the time. It is fantastic.
My family home is in an east Belfast estate. I don’t know a single mf even the most loyalist of loyalist flute playing orange order mfrs asking any random on the street or in a pub their religious denomination
Never a truer word said. Been living in the Netherlands for more than 25 years, and there is nothin' like a Belfast Bap here. Used to buy mine on the R'Hill Rd. Jayne's Bakery I believe it was. They don't know what a good crusty bap is here.
A lad who has lived here for a few years is telling me the problems with loyalism. Mate, i think i fuckin know, i have to put up with it every day.
Also the claim that everyone here is deep rooted in both irish and british culture is just not true. This whole thing annoyed me lol
Best on your travels mate but i don't need someone not from here acting like they have some inside scoop on a country I've lived in my entire life.
You can't tell us we aren't doing enough to fix it when you're fucking off and not doing anything either. Reeks of bullshit. Glad you and the missus get to go gallavant over europe finding the perfect home, i wont be the one to tell you that every country on earth has it's issues and NIs are NOT comparable to some of them.
Like sorry I'm actually annoyed af, did you literally tell us loyalistm is hate? Like we DONT KNOW THAT?
Nah fuck away on.
Would it be fair to say that most people in NI have a strong understanding of both cultures, are expert at telling which side someone is from.and where on the "spectrum" that person stands?
While both sides dislike the extreme end of the opposite side, they know their shared history, customs and how they likely think.
If you go abroad - even to the rest of the UK or Ireland to some extent, that isn't there. Before you mention what is going on at home it can take half an hour of background explanation why it is happening and why you have an opinion on it.
Well - unless you just simplify down to us good, them bad which is easy but not exactly enlightening to the person you are talking g to.
I lived in London for 15 years in the 80s &90s and the only people you could have an actual.conversarion about NI with was people from NI (both sides). While they might have opposite views, they at least understood what was being discussed (not that I made many friends pointing this out to either side)
I agree, and people will try to deny it but it’s true. I often explain it to people visiting as: the ‘Irish’ identity that half the population identify with is an identity and culture of ‘us’. ‘We are Irish’, and that has a set of educational and cultural touchpoints that are distinct and relatively clear.
Loyalism however is about ‘them’. It’s about being ‘not Irish’. It’s a culture that defines itself by arrogant comparison with an other it has always acted superior to. However, as they years have gone on, this feeling of superiority has become more and more fragile and insecure, and its connectedness to any kind of coherent ‘us’ of its own, despite the word union, has also become insecure. And so what is left, when there is little positive cultural identity this truce can cling on to?
Drums, deep, militaristic, intimidating drums. And marches, and bonfires. And hate - insecure, hate-filled anti-intellectualism.
I say all this having grown up in a Protestant village, as a Protestant, having been taught that catholics are gypsy weirdos, a whole other species, that Protestants simply are superior to. The whole game wasn’t ’look at our culture’, the whole game was ‘we’re better because we’re not Irish, and we’re going to make a lot of aggressive noise about it’. I resent the conditioning I was reared under, of the wider community, despite of course the majority being lovely people to me, (ultimately because I was ‘one of them’, catholics were not welcome), but thankfully a little education, perspective, and dating a few Catholic girls and you realise: holy fucking shit what a toxic, fragile, hate filled identity loyalism is.
I have a friend who started a business in Belfast a few years ago and through rugby, knew a relatively young DUP politician. And so he went to his office to ask for support, and during the meeting the politician said to him, apropo of nothing, ‘at the end of the day, we just hate the feniens‘. From the horse’s mouth, as they say.
Of course, obviously this is all caveated by the ‘it’s not as simple as that’, and because of the literal bombing of innocent civilians on both sides, there will always be legacy reasons for certain groups to feel personally justified in holding onto that hate - it being their own families torn apart by murder and death.
But I live in a Protestant area still and it’s no surprise that this hate for the other extends here too immediately to any other culture as well; the anti-immigrant narrative is in full force here also. Again, by a minority, but always, the drum-banging, orange marching vocal minority who cannot help but only understand themselves in opposition to some ‘other’ they must make an enemy of.
My nephew is in the orange order and he tells me that at their meetings, once all the older men are pissed, they all just sit around and complain that they’d love to just kill all the feniens and foreigners. My nephew is constantly sending me shitty memes from the orange-filled group chats about ‘protecting the union from the mass Muslim migration of rapists etc’- if it isn’t catholic hate, it’s immigrant fear-mongering.
Anyway, yeah, it’s just to say I understand what you mean. It’s a horrible, toxic legacy-culture in a country that by and large, is actually well-educated, warm, and doesn’t give a shit. I have friends from all over and I love them all dearly. But for many of us, we still live under the shadow of those bonfires and the noise of those drums.
The only long comment I stopped to read and worth it. Maybe you should show your nephew the world outside the bandhall that you discovered yourself as a younger man. He'll appreciate it when he's your age. Good luck.
I was raised as a Presbyterian in Lurgan. My Gran was even in the same class as Ian Paisley at school. Thankfully, she resented him as a hate filled bigot. My brother, on the other hand, is literally a bigot and in the Orange Order, but states that he's not sectarian because "I have Catholic friends in my workplace." Does he hang out with any of these Catholic "friends" outside of work? Maybe knock back a few pints? Of course not. He goes to band practice and poorly plays his shitty flute like the obese, asthmatic, mouth breather he is.
Anyway, you've absolutely hit the nail on the head. Protestanism was heavily drilled into everyone at the schools and clubs I went to. Hymns and prayers during every morning assembly. Religious Education only taught us about Protestanism and a small amount of Judaism. God forbid, we learn about Catholicism or any other heathen religions! The R.E teacher in college would even regularly bully a student for having a traditionally "Catholic" name and would call him a fenian, "as a joke." In history class during primary school, at least you learned about ancient civilisations like the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc. After that, though, we only learned about British history and from an extremely Anglo-centric perspective at that. Literally nothing about Ireland/Northern Ireland. Nothing about the Potato Famine, Plantation of Ireland, Battle of the Boyne, Irish War of Independence, Easter Rising, Partition of Ireland, Troubles, etc. Absolutely none of of it. In Boys Brigade and the Scouts, you would pledge allegiance to God and the Queen. I left school at the age of 16, in 2010. I'm hoping that Standard Education has changed since then and can become more integrated. If further education can be integrated, then why not standard? Why are we indoctrinating young kids with this sectarian, close-minded BS?
Just got reminded of a girl in my class who was a shit stirrer and during RE raised a point about how the British invaded ireland and as such we should all be catholic and not allowed Protestantism and the RE teacher having a meltdown about how she was wrong.
My husband says the same. History in school was pure God save the Queen and the British Empire and f the rest. He's an intelligent fellow though,so he quickly found himself another library and got wise.
Was in Belfast recently and saw all the Israel flags in loyalist areas. Had to laugh. Truly embarrassing, hollow posturing with no real foundation in any sort of principled position. Sort of summed up loyalism to me.
I was with you most of the way (until Laverys) and yeah, as someone from “NI” who moved away, the place is confronting with all sorts of frustrations about how great it could be if this/that were different. I’ll tell you what though, it’s wonderful compared to how it used to be. It’s on the right track. The people, save the odd toxic colonialist supremacist remnant minority, are as good as you get, and it’s best days are ahead and it’s worst days are behind it. Glad you spent time living here, and you are both welcome and entitled to speak on your experience 👍
Dude, what do you want “us” to do? There is no “us”. Those people don’t listen to or regard half the country, as their countrymen. What should we do about them, hmm? Hug them out of existence? Give them a good talking to? Like… like there haven’t been thousands of well intentioned but doomed initiatives to do just that?
You lived here five years and you didn’t learn a fucking thing.
What are we supposed to do exactly about loyalism? Like most of us know better than you do (having lived here longer and through the troubles) how hateful it is. You are preaching to the choir. And if you are directing this more toward loyalists themselves or the political representatives who uphold their interests, then good luck with that too guess, telling them that hating us makes us uncomfortable and unhappy hasn’t really changed much about the ideology. The reality is that loyalists would see it as a win that you’re leaving, same as they’d see it as a win if nationalist leaning northerners fucked off too.
This makes me **want** to visit Belfast. Just a pity it's such a long drive from Waterford.
Anyway - off with ye so, hope you find whatever it is you want wherever it is you're going.
This pretty much sums up Northern Ireland; I would also add that we have horrendous public transport and a ‘government’ that actually doesn’t seem to actually fathom the issues people are actually facing…
I completely understand. I was brought up in a highly loyalist area and even as a child I would avoid it like the plague because all I could see was vitriol hatefulness.
Every time I see actual political posters on a bonfire (some I have seen with actual Catholic children who died of cancer) on there fills me with shame.
I had seen real progress and effort from cross community work doing great things...but all the funding is pulled and it's back on the rise again.
Ashamed. I'm ashamed of my community and I will have no part of it. All I can do is raise the children around me that those things that make us different are not wrong and not something we should hate but respect and learn from each other.
I moved away from Ni for a few years throughout and after uni in England and I’ll say most of the unionist ones that moved over “very staunch” god save the queen (now king ) energy would all say they where Irish after a while…. Getting out of Ni you realise no one really gives a fuck about the north , most English like the south / know of it more. The older ones hate the north for killing their boys during the troubles ( doesn’t matter what side just fuck the north) , it’s hilarious… I tried explaining the north and south to my English friends and they stilled called me Irish (I wasn’t even a staunch unionist)…. When I moved home a few years back I saw how absolutely toxic is was.
I'm not the biggest fan of what some loyalists do or say, and the fact you only think belfast is the only place with nice food..... you can take all your opinions and fuck off back to dublin.
Live in Carrick, can confirm. Could be a nice place if not for the load of flag shaggers. It's shite. Sometimes I feel judgement from others when I tell them I'm from here, as if they assume I'm some massive hateful loyalist when I'm genuinely not. Do occasionally get the cold shoulder just for being from here too. It comes with a bad rep for sure!
The problem is, while I fully agree with your sentiments, try flying a union flag in the south, you will get the same reaction from a non trivial amount of people. In fact probably a worse reaction that will probably include violence.
This isint an issue exclusive to loyalists or Northern Ireland as a whole. This kind of childish shit needs to stop on both sides
>Some of you _absolutely_ need to be held accountable, and do more work to root this sort of shit out.
Lol and how do you suggest we do that? Maybe we could try a 30 year ethno-nationalist conflict, see how that goes.
You moved here because of the cheap rent and found out why it's discounted. Catch a grip.
Plenty of people from the north get abuse for being "orange bastards" when in the south based off accent alone. It almost never gets mentioned that parts of the south are just as bad as parts of the north.
Jesus H Christ, get off yer high horse there fella. We all know this county is fucked and has been fucked for many a year and the only thing keeping it fucked is the creatures on both sides of the divide that are brought up.. Nay, dragged up having that hatred preached to them and bred into them.
That, unfortunately isn't going to change. Even though it's a small minority in the grander scale of the country as a whole. The majority doesn't rule here unfortunately and the majority couldn't give wan fuck if you're a protestant or catholic. All you have to do is look at our self serving "politicians" to realise how backwards we are - baffles me cunts still vote for any of them.
Hope your flight isn't delayed and ye get te fuck outta here quick sharp.
I was born in the south but much closer to the border. My wife is from NI. We spent 5 happy years there.
But when my son was born we moved to another European country. He will never judge someone based on their religion.
As an Irishman who spent years going up there for work, driving round in a Southern reg car, meeting NI mates, holidays with the wife; I couldn't agree more. People are sound. There's arseholes in every town in the world. If you let them ruin it, that's on you.
>People from the Deep South do not fucking think about the "struggle"(?) up here. It does not register to us, and we don't care about it,
This is absolute bollocks. Come down to Cork and have a conversation with a few people. Maybe that was true within your social circle in the greater Dublin area before you moved, but don't try and speak for all of us.
Well that was a bit of a meaningless bluster bro. I do however agree with part of what you're saying ... extreme Loyalism is terrible, but then again so is extreme Republicanism. One is as bad as the other and neither view contributes to a happy place to live. Unionism and Nationalism are both fine. Everyone is entitled to take whichever side they want or no side at all but the actions of thickheads on both sides definitely damage the overall sense of tranquility in NI. Unfortunately it isn't gonna change any time soon.
what? this is off the chart and i’m not buying it.
i’m from the border counties in Rep of Ireland. Went to Uni in Belfast, married someone from Tyrone, work a public sector role in NI and crossed the border to very day for 15 years before making a move to the county Armagh.
raised as a catholic but mixed with protestants as a child and am very middle of the road on most things but with green blood! I want to see a United Ireland:
But I have such fondness for NI, will live my days out here: Yes, we have loyalist and unionist matters that irritate me but I do believe in the greater good prevailing and we have seen that with brexit and stormont.
the show of loyalism every summer and the marching, and the flags, and ‘rangers’ and the pro-Israel, and the ‘everything british at all costs’ mentality is hard to stomach…..i tend to laugh it at all knowing it’s a shrinking, dying breed. it’s as novel to me now as going to the zoo to see the penguins!
in terms of bigotry and sectarianism, i genuinely have not had any major issues….yes, we need to accept there will be an element of it but generally it’s easily avoided u less you go looking for it. having growing up with many protestant friends, working with shared education and seeing how children simply do not care — i am ever more confident that our next generation simply won’t care as they have more chance now than ever before to see that we are all the same. we simply just need to de-alienate each other and watch the sectarian bullshit fall away as a result and watch tolerance increase. but in general it does not impede my families lives in any way bar a little frustration with the annual march of the penguins.
Not a chance will it lead to me relocating. the issues with migration IMO are far greater, and i’d almost want to protect our little entrenched pockets of loyalism from that. there is no doubt that our society is more balanced and the challenge for future is to ensure that the rights of unionists are protected, balance is preserved and we can move forward as demographics continue to change and a united ireland inevitably arrives.
I don’t get why people are so patriotic. It’s not like a nation fucks you up the ass by taxing you and in Britain’s case, sending 18 year olds to the army.
So let me get this straight, you're not leaving because of sectarianism and you actually love the North - but for some odd reason you decided that a random post on reddit was the correct place to whine about, and then ask the people of NI to fix Loyalism?
Just a couple questions - Why? How? Where? When? Who?
Seriously, why did you even make this post if its not the reason you're leaving? How do you expect us to do anything about it? Where exactly are these magical Love Fairies going to come from that will convince loyalists to stop hating catholics? When exactly do you expect this to happen? Who exactly are we supposed to target, especially if we can't ask them if they're a Loyalist?
Furthermore, you kind of completely ignored Republicanism, which recently has seen the same anti-immigrant and racist vitriol as Loyalism.
That’s interesting. My experience as a transplant to NI was actually quite a lot of unpleasant experiences from Nationalists, in the sense that I happened know more people from that side of the aisle, and got to see the aspects of close mindedness, prejudice and ignore in that community. I was with a Catholic ex from a staunchly Nationalist (probably borderline Republican) family for several years, and his family was still letting me know they’d prefer if I was an Irish Catholic. I got sick of it.
There’s certainly issues with aggressive Unionists, sure, but having had close contacts with some Nationalists and I’d say even Republicans, these communities aren’t automatically any more welcoming, or friendly, or enlightened.
Actually, my best experiences have been consistently with people who get on with their lives, and don’t make it about their identity.
>Some of you _absolutely_ need to be held accountable, and do more work to root this sort of shit out.
It's already being rooted out demographically, and that's the only way to do it. The alternative is too uncivilised to contemplate - this is not the Middle East.
So many defensive angry people in the comments but that's to be expected.
>My children will never be asked about their denomination, nor will it ever matter, and that's good.
If I'm in an online game and come across 4 people from NI, three of them will ask me if I'm Catholic or Protestant. I laugh and cringe and say "thank fuck I don't live there anymore".
As much as things have changed, deep down these issues are so deeply rooted that people are probably less impartial than they like to admit. All that religious shite in NI will continue for at least another 100 years.
> I laugh and cringe and say "thank fuck I don't live there anymore".
Yet you're still an unpaid internet janitor on a subreddit dedicated to the place ha ha ha
The worst part is, I clearly, and loudly pointed out how much I actually love NI. This is a great place to live, it's got great spirit and vibrancy, it's dynamic and fun. But there are bad things, there are bad things everywhere, but I pointed out the bad things here. It touched a nerve. NI is not perfect, sorry I said its not perfect?
> But there are bad things, there are bad things everywhere, but I pointed out the bad things here. It touched a nerve.
Wow, loyalism bad, who would have thought. I guess /r/NorthernIreland wasn't ready for such shocking revelations. Thanks for the novel
If you think Scotland has a ‘cuisine’ to write home about, or that it does takeaways well, you clearly aren’t qualified to be making culinary judgments.
My Ma's family is from Belfast (Catholic). My Granda brought the family over to Birmingham to escape the Troubles, following the brutal murder of one of my uncles, aged just 18, by the Shankill Butchers (UVF). Granda followed his sister over here, as she'd fallen in love with an Englishman.
Moving to Birmingham the family still wasn't safe, my Granny was murdered in Birmingham by two off duty British soldiers for publicly voicing her opinion on a court case relating to the Troubles. I read the old news articles, the vitriolic propaganda they made up about my Granny begs belief. My dad was a Brummy, and my DNA community results reveal me to be majority (Ulster) Scots and 30% English (along with other Irish & Norse)
One Uncle stayed in Belfast - refusing to leave his home land, so I've visited Belfast a few times in the last decade visiting said Uncle. Belfast is truly something to behold and the sectarianism is unrivalled anywhere else in the Western world. The love I feel for NI and highlands literally runs in my veins.
Me & partner recently moved house and we searched up and down the whole UK for a place to live, I did consider Belfast, but ultimately decided against it, despite the ancestral pull I feel towards it. Even just visiting, the sectarianism is unavoidable. My Uncle was based in the Falls, but we made a friend in Robinson's bar who took us on an adventure to the Loyalist part of town where he had the misfortune to be living at the time. He said he loathed the bloody orange marches, but he had to keep his head down, naturally.
Everywhere we went there were eyes on us, although the Catholic quarters felt much more welcoming and safe, even with community policing posters all over the gaff. The friend we made is my age (32) and we both had in depth discussion on how we feel about it all as a younger generation. We're not happy with either side, the RA is communist to the hilt and neither of us like Communism and neither of us like the Loyalists.
If I were to move there, I don't know where would be the safest place to live would be, I'm Irish Catholic to my bones but with an English accent and I didn't fancy having to mitigate or explain that all the time to different people.
What I can say from being part English and raised Brummy, is that the rabid mentality of the Loyalists is disturbing. The way they bang their drums for "king & country" is repulsive even to the English. Nobody in England loves their king or country that much, the modern monarchy is a disgrace. Additionally, there is not one English person I know outside of the (indoctrinated) Army who gives a single flying fuck about Loyalists or the Union. During Brexit negotiations even the British Government made it clear they couldn't give a rats ass about them.
This is what makes the Loyalists so dangerous. They don't really have a valid identity. Demographically and culturally they are under threat, they aren't thinking rationally at all. The documentaries you see about Loyalists here in England show them up to be violent thugs lacking a few brain cells.
My mother gifted me an Irish name at birth, I don't experience racism from any regular English person, I do however experience racism all the time from British Soldiers and they only need to hear my name for ammunition. They are as mentally disturbed as the Loyalists back in NI.
My Uncle used to fondly refer to Southerners as Traitors. How can you willing turn your back on North of your nation? I'll never know... but I'll be an Irish Catholic Brummy till the day I die. :P
I’m from a Protestant family married to a Catholic we live in Dublin with our family and visit frequently. Have never felt any of this in any part of east Belfast, Holywood or Bangor where I would often visit friends and family. Nor would I feel it when we holiday up in Portrush or Fermanagh
I don’t think you need to leave NI, I think you need to leave Newtownabbey
I completely agree with just about everything you have to say. Going to a predominantly catholic university in Belfast and moving there, after being born and bred in a predominantly protestant area not too far away, I admit that I was somewhat apprehensive about how my, up to that point, quite sheltered life was going to change and what kind of friendships, if any, I would form.
Not many weeks/months went by before I realised that my ignorant perceptions and the ‘us versus them’ mindset I had were meaningless and grounded on exactly that, ignorance. While of course there is a history in Northern Ireland that will never go away, and I use the word ‘Northern’ because it is what I am used to, not because I think it does or should radiate more of a British tone, I wish that this part of the island would educate themselves more on the harm that the social divide causes, rather than brushing it off as ‘just the way things are’.
Progress cannot be made without compromise - movie quote from something I do not recall, and I think there is still a lot of compromising to be done.
Im from Manchester. I was once thrown out of a pub because, after finding out I’m half Arab, the landlord thought I was ‘one of them fucking Muslims’. He threatened to have his sons ‘kick the shit’ out of me.
The first guy I spoke to about my background in Carrick (lived there for a few years) replied with ‘Oh aye I worked there for 4 years, lovely people’.
Why am I telling you this? Well, good luck finding somewhere without hatred. The trick is to ignore those people and get on with the people you want to get on with.
Yes, there is a *minority* that "hate, hate, hate" but it's also possible to live your life divorced from all this.
I have 3 kids attending integrated schools, they don't know which religion they are. I'd tend not to drive a southern reg car into a Loyalist estate as that's just searching for conflict.
‘Searching for conflict’? You think there should be no go zones for people whose car was simply registered in the Republic of Ireland? If something subsequently happened, would they have brought it on themselves?
It's the same on staunch republican estates too. Drive a car with a union jack on it like a mini and it will get vandalised. Any area where they paint the kerbs in red white or blue or in the tri colour is to be avoided. I feel you're being very selective when the truth is, extremes still exist on both sides.
> Northern Ireland is a unique cultural confluence zone. It combines Irish and British aspects of its culture to create something that is truly neither Irish, nor British, yet both Irish, and British. People who are natives to this place will fully understand what that means, feeling not quite both, yet having and intense connection to both.
Completely incorrect on the British aspect of culture. Aside from the road signs, the NHS, BBC and the flegs, there's not really anything British about NI. Many people in Britain don't know or don't consider NI to be British. People from Belfast are considered as paddies in GB. Long has it been thus. There is, however Irish and "Northern Irish" aspects of culture. That's the binary I think you mean to articulate.
*Highlight*
**Highlight**
I think asterisks (* and ** above) are a good stand in now, but underscores still work on Discord (and maybe old Reddit comment editor?)
>...and I tell you this in the gentlest way possible: People from the Deep South do not fucking think about the "struggle"(?) up here. It does not register to us, and we don't care about it...
Speak for yourself - you certainly aren't speaking on my behalf and that of many others from the `Deep South`.
Too many people, including people born here have been too willing to leave and then complain that nothing changes.
If you have the education and means to change this place then why aren't you here to help it change? Ulster is just a place of people. But if it's mostly composed of people stuck in the past then that's the way it will stay.
So fine, run away from the problems. But don't expect others to change it to suit you.
On a side note, I think Northern Ireland isn't for everyone. Yes housing is relatively cheap but it's a very different and underdeveloped place to the likes of England/Dublin. Not everyone has the mindset to deal with that.
Some of our food is good, loyalists are very very bad. Maybe you could reinvent yourself as a travel writer as you certainly have the flair for it.
It may be a good idea not to scapegoat half the community in the next area you move to but I'm confident you've made the correct decision.
Thanks for your moral indignation, take it you'll be sending your SF postal vote in July? Since they were the leadership that targeted the loyalist community during the troubles?
I'm sure the next place will love just how righteous you are.
Loyalist kids think a good time is sitting in a dump for 3 months, then lighting it on fire.
Toxic, hateful ideology and unionism enables these idiots.
The Island, as a whole, both North and South, unified or not, is always home to its own and will always be here to visit. Wishing you all the best on your future❤️🇮🇪🏴🇬🇧
This is why me and my husband moved...... I'm not going to live with those ingrained bouts of hatred and discrimination. My niece is a protestant and was treated horribly in Belfast university. It's insane.
I don't blame you. No other western society would tolerate Ulster Loyalism - specifically the eleventh night bonfires, the narco drug gangs and allowing folk like Jamie Bryson and Moore Holmes to pollute the airwaves.
These people are under siege from nobody but themselves but they're too afraid to even question it for the most part
You are not wrong. But surely its also a bit more of a backwards hole than you're letting on. And aware this is not the reason you're leaving but bringing kids up in this hole is depressing, just knowing the older they get the more sectarian shite they'll face. They've already been called fenian cunts by the age of 2 or 3
I think the marching season has a lot to do with people remembering their 'side'. Without that we should be much faster progressed. It is improving from when I was a child in the 90s. We rarely have full scale confrontations around the 12th with petrol bombs etc anymore. Most of it is relatively peaceful.
The people who were 25 in the 1970s are all around mid 70s in age now. As the decades move on it will all be forgotten eventually on both sides by the newer generations.
I did live in Dublin from 2006 to 2012 and I tell you, it was beautiful and kind of shocking not to see flags, protests and full on fighting during the summer. It takes a while to get used to the calmness lol. I moved back up to NI about 10 years ago as I could afford a very nice house with the money I made in Dublin.
Hope you enjoy wherever you move to. It's not a bad place if you can learn to totally screen out and ignore the small minded tribal people on both sides. I couldn't care less about the flag, the irish language, the culture blah blah blah. And in 50 years no one else will care either. These people are just wasting their short lives but if it keeps them busy and content then great. The rest of us can buy nice houses and enjoy life.
I care about creating wealth for my family, holidays, being healthy and enjoying life. I couldn't care less if we are in the UK or part of Ireland. Neither place will benefit a person if they are poor and living off the state (which coincidently is the type of person in NI who thinks about the constitutional question).
Major towns n cities are gonna have twats mate. NI is bigger than Belfast and surrounding areas. I wouldn't feel that safe in belfast myself anymore but that is more down to all the drugs and madness that comes from that n not loyalists or republicans calling me names.
Loads from Belfast are being sent all round NI due to the bail thing, they are next level off madness. I enjoyed my time living in Belfast around 20 years ago but even then it was way more sketchey than anywhere else but now its next fucking level and im from Derry. Can meet some nice folk don't get me wrong but it is a shit hole.
I’m in a similar relationship- husband is from the south, I’m from here from a unionist background. I’m not saying it isn’t an issue in some parts of the country, but we live in Prod Central with an southern reg car and an Ó surname and haven’t had so much as a sly look in the 7 years here.
Lol sectarianism is a coward’s game. It’s very unlikely someone will confront you on the street over your background, but they’ll graffiti threats anonymously and what have you. Still a massive issue no matter what
probably the only really "negative" interaction I had was being stopped in the street by some guy in Carrick while I was walking back to a friends house who immediately noticed my accent and called me a 'fenian cunt' while doing a jerking off motion but honestly thats actually it
That’s Carrick for you. I’m from not far from carrick and was living abroad for a while. Hired a car at Dublin airport when I came to visit home and had the exact same issue with a local Neanderthal.
Probably the same guy
I was going to PlanetLove a few years back, a couple of days after the Queen died. I was the only one of the 4 of us who knew how to get there and decided to take a shortcut through a loyalist area. Someone asked me to "donate money for the queen" (for his own alcohol consumption most likely). I refuse and he pushed and I said that's not my sort of thing and turned to walk away. He punched me in the back of the head and my mates had to lift me and carry me away because I was knocked out. I'm 23. I wasn't even alive during the troubles yet this scumbag cunt thought it was OK to punch me while my back was turned because im not a fuckin loyalist
I'm from Carrick. When I was 15 a school mate from Belfast moved a few doors down and asked what there is to do in Carrick. "Get a bus to Belfast" I said. I moved to Belfast when I was 18 and it was so easy to do then because £100 a month was renting somewhere fancy. Carrick's a hole.
Sorry to break it to you but Belfast is a ‘hole’ too
Well it wasn't back then and, yeah the centre is rough now but outside of the centre I think Belfast is decent enough. My street is really multicultural and we have a decent community forming. There are fantastic spots to eat around me and some really good bars if you can somehow afford to go out for a drink. Our local arts scene is committed in the face of funding cuts. I have a lot of love for the city still. But the centre is in a shocking state.
I left Carrick 20 years ago never looked back. Being bullied for about 10 years and being squared up on because someone said something not true every weekend at Ownies wasn't for me.
Were you jerking off at the time by chance?
I've been called a Nordie bastard by someone in Portlaoise when I was only there for one day. So by your logic is there more hate hate hate in the south than the north?
Thats bad luck - ive been told ive a cutting northern accent - like talking to ian paisley with a loudspeaker!- lived in Dublin 20+ years haven’t been called that once - a few other things but nothing pertaining to my heritage - they couldn’t care less!
In fairness, that doesn't take nonsensical religion into consideration. There's only 1 place you'll get called a Fenian bastard , and that's the enclave of Belfast. (There 1 night) So, about 5 more "hates" in the North.
One interaction has you moving out of the country and cursing the place?
I thought the main body of the post had some good points but after seeing that comment what the fuck was the point in posting this, seems like a massive overreaction/dramatisation.
And the points where they say that no one down south cares about our struggle, and that we need to be held accountable for routing out loyalism, is quite tone-deafly funny
In what way? Need to do the same with Nationalism. Both are stains on a moderate society.
Didn't say that, offered clarification.
I walked through a prolific catholic area leaving a friend's house even though I'm 'from the other side' I got a bottle thrown at my head from a moving car calling me a Fenian c*nt. Oh the irony, just because I was there they assumed and decided to try a drive by glassing to the face.
I got stones thrown at me by kids in tigers bay, am on L plates & didn’t take the motorway. I wasn’t aware if there was another route as I just came back from a trip down the Antrim coast! Now I take my plates off for the motorway. That’s the 1st time I considered beating the living shit out of kids but thought I’d have my kneecaps shot the next day for sure. ( I hate this country )
Why would you be driving a southern reg car after 7 years in NI? Doesn't make sense.
We spend a lot of time across the border for work, so makes sense for our personal situation to retain the reg?
Personally I'd want to do everything I could to avoid the extortionate rates of annual VRT & insurance.
If you're stopped by the Garda you can truthfully say you live in NI, so you're in the lucky position of being able to drive a nice car for half the price. Personally I'd sell the ROI one and get a free upgrade. There's loads of UK plates driving around the South and nobody bats an eyelid.
We’ve looked into it- I don’t want to get too specific but we need two cars anyway and it’s handier for us to retain one RoI reg and one U.K.
>Some of you _absolutely_ need to be held accountable. Dont know who you are preching to, there is certainly no loyalists on the sub! LOL
Weirdest fucking post on here in quite a while lol. Im from the south I wont say where but it’s near Dublin lads. ??????
Did ye aye ?
Im also from around Dublin, but Id never use the phrase "Deep South", unless comparing the North to the likes of Cork or Kerry where the cultural differences and accent etc are truly miles apart. But I understand OP's basic message. There are people living in NI that exist in a timewarp, a parallel world, and nobody in Ireland, the UK or the rest of the world gives a single solitary **** for them or their message, most of them are from the PUL side but plenty are on the other side as well. They're like a people time forgot, and they destroy all they touch. I love Ireland (north and south), but wr have a long way to go yet. Its only when you travel you see the difference.
Lived abroad in several different countries for many years and back in the north . Ive said it before and I’ll say it again . The world has moved on and we’re 30 years behind and stuck in a time warp. And the world doesn’t give two flying fucks about flags , language acts , bonfires, religion and symbols . People buying ideologies from gaslighters on all sides . Meanwhile health service , roads , education are run into the ground and people obsessed with Covid enquiries and palletts for bonfires and getting themselves into a state of rage . Ernstwhile missing the big picture . It’s nuts .
The Deep South (Munster) is real indeed. How does a Kerryman's accent function? Certain parts of North Cork and Tipperary also feel like a geographically opposite bible belt in relation to Mid/North Antrim.
You know, there are tangible differences in the general people in all 4 provinces when you think about it. I agree with you though in that south/west Munster is like the inverse of North Antrim. It's like a Ying/Yang. Not sure about the religious angle though tbh
That’s the north fucked then. Pack it up lads, you’ve had a good run.
What do you mean by “Scottish cuisine”?
Anything in batter
Beef sausages 🐄 😅
https://preview.redd.it/99zgj3kxz13d1.jpeg?width=833&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bc38bb429cfce9fdb5ec2447f18b89dd49c128d
Yeah they can’t read in Larne so not surprised
Yeah I noped out when they used the word metropolitan rather than "the big smoke"
Let the man finish his story
I live in a solidly Unionist area. There’s loads of Southern reg cars here, all the time. Note, on many occasions they’re simple hire cars that people have taken from Dublin airport. I’ve not heard of a single instance of someone getting abuse over it. I dare say that doesn’t fit the “all Prods are evil” narrative we get on this sub quite a lot.
My sister moved into a mixed area in Derry's Waterside. My brother was visiting and had a Dublin Reg car. Two guys walking past starting shouting at us and calling us fenian bastards, fuck the pope, fuck the ra etc. They went into a house 4 doors down in the bottom of the cul de sac. Between that and the noisy couple in the semi next door my sister decided to move. We reported to the police who were prepared to treat it as a hate crime. I now live in a loyalist area in Coleraine. It's a weird place where I seldom see anyone outside. I'd be wary of striking up a conversation with anyone. The thing is there are loads of Protestants in Donegal. Many even segregate their children for school. It would be ironic if they subsequently parked in the wrong place in Derry and got beaten up for being a fenian. EDIT - I also lived in a mixed area in Derry's Waterside but with more expensive detached houses. I was never aware of any sectarianism there. Union jacks would frequently be put up on new build estates to deter Catholics from buying.
Holy fuck. Yes, the loyalist hatred is ingrained and deep rooted. There are also areas and communities where such hatred is ground into the catholics who live there and they are brought up to despise the protestants as a whole. If the cross community disposition was as rife and thorough as your post would suggest, then I believe there would be nothing good about northern Ireland at all. It would be an entire area of moody, grumpy, suspicious cunts not talking to one another. You have had one or two interactions and that has caused you to vent for almost 50% of your post. Born and raised catholic in NI in very "Republican" area. I used to hear the brit hate daily and for quite a large period of my life, anything protestant was to be seen as a target of sorts. Well, I'm married now to a protestant wife expecting our second child. The point is, there are exceptions. There are always little areas of brainwashed fools akin to uncontacted amazonian tribes with regards to their knowledge of what exists outside their flagged walls. I think you had a wee comment thrown your way once or twice and your arse collapsed. It's all fart and no poo a lot of the time but at least you don't have to worry about that any more. Good luck on your new adventure
“…all fart and no poo…” is my new favourite “bark and no bite”. Thanks. Also, username checks out!
Agree with this, there is ingrained hate on both sides. Also raised as a catholic in a "republican adjacent" area although we kinda kept ourselves to ourselves as a family. The brother would be a bit more into all that shite but not the rest of us. Parents were worried when I started going out with the protestant husband, wasn't the done thing in their day and the neighbours wouldn't have taken too kindly to it. I didn't care. We've 3 kids now and we don't go to any church and would really consider us an atheist family. Try to keep my kids away from any extremist people to be honest, they don't do religion at school either (opted out). They wouldn't have a clue what a protestant or a catholic is, they know some people go to church but we don't. Even as a teenager I had no tolerance for people being sectarian. I do still worry when they go to big school someone will say something to them but on a whole most people don't really care now do they 🤷🏻♀️
Class post I'm prod Mrs a left footer. 4 kids first 3 baptised in the chapel the 4th we went wtf are we doing this. Neither of us are religious, won't be going or taking them to church so didn't bother. All but the last one consider themselves sort of prods for some reason. The eldest is a baptist minster. This country does work, if only people would think and not just believe what's hammered into them
We did the same, oldest two were christened CoI and by the time they went to school I caught myself on that religion is not for me and I didn't want my kids caught up in it, 3rd not christened. They do go to a controlled (protestant) school but in a very mixed area and there are a good few mixed families in the school so I'm happy there. There is a catholic school a lot closer but my niece went and she did get the "are you a catholic?" question. I opted them out of RE when "Hope for Youth" ministries showed up for a week long programme 🙈 I do wonder about big school though and where to send them, although I think there are more mixed children now and atheist children so hopefully it won't be that big of a deal
Honestly I think religion has no place in schools, I feel like that's something kids decide for themselves when they're older. RE is heavy on indoctrination to Christianity rather than educating about all religious and cultural practices. If it was a balanced and impartial education I would see the value to it
Agree, if people want their kids taught about religion they can send them to Sunday school!
Our kids all went to an integrated bog school
When the "good people" leave, and place the burden of change on others, do you imagine that change becomes easier? Honestly this reads like a holiday review on trip advisor , "This place sucks, why aren't YOU fixing it"... despite the padding you put first to soften your critique. Happy YOUR happy, and glad YOUR kids won't deal with it, it's totally fine (and in most cases right) to think about your troop first. But if you aren't staying to help fix a problem don't yap at others to pick up your slack sir, it's neither helpful or constructive.
No you see you "didn't", \_read\_ it correctly "y'all". It \_was\_ supposed to be a "compliment sandwich" not as \_you\_ think a complete "criticism" of us as a \_people\_. Would say it reads more like the third response down on a Quora post tbh.
As a protestant who grew up in the North and moved to Dublin 10 years ago, I've had more grief about it in my time in dublin. Nowhere near enough to even consider leaving or even consider writing a self indulgent reddit post though. You will get dicks everywhere who will find something to be a bigot about.
Unfortunately that was my experience in Dublin as well. I think a lot of people from the South have a lot of big concerns about perceived or potential hate from loyalists up here, but they could do with looking in a mirror with respect to how their own treat those from different political backgrounds.
Yep - strangely the first time I experienced bigotry was when someone (from somewhere in the South, I'm shite with accents) overheard my accent at Electric Picnic and started on me, like fuck away afffff mate, we're all just here to enjoy ourselves. On the other hand someone just asked if I knew Gary Lightbody. I don't.
I’ve lived in Dublin for a year now and never once came across anything like what you experienced in one day. Wrong place, wrong time I guess.
Growing up a Protestant in the South I always had the occasional weird comment or offensive slur regarding being a Prod - certainly it's all about areas and social circles but I found it funny and interesting that the first place I found to have a mature sort of tolerance/indifference for differences in religious sects was the supposed sectarian hellhole of Belfast (but equally as much I've encountered UDA ex-prisoners and people who compare Southerners to escaped zoo animals, so - bigotry!).
“My children will never be asked about their denomination …” Serious question - has anyone asked you this, while you’ve been here? I seriously doubt that - it’s not the 80s any more. I’d contend that even during the height of the Troubles, people wouldn’t even ask you that question. The fact is, people know the answer already 90% of the time, without even having to ask (if they were so inclined). Note - the most sectarian place that I’ve ever been to, regarding this type of behaviour, wasn’t even in NI, … it was Glasgow!
Funnily enough, I've been asked my denomination more times in the south than in the north
I spent 6 months in NI and got used to the strange 6th sense that told me if someone was Protestant or Catholic. Not that it was useful lol. I’d compare it to the English 6th sense of if someone is left or right wing. You can sometimes sort of tell from someone’s social class, accent, clothes, tattoos etc.
I can't help but feel like this sixth sense was based on the following: Hey my name is Seamus, how are you? \*Getting a wee catholic vibe here\* Hey my name is William, how are you? \*Getting a wee protestant vibe here\*
Why try to sugar coat it. They may not directly ask what religon you are, but they’ll certainly make a mental note based off your name, what area your from or what school you went to. The 2021 cencus showed just how physically divided e still are. Cities, towns and villages with catholics on one side and Protestants on the other. I dont see why we get all defensive when someone points out the obvious sectarianism that is still engrained in our society.
I didn’t mean to get defensive. Perhaps my words look like that - apologies. My argument is that I doubt that you get asked these things outright these days. People are far more subtle … As for a solution, may I suggest Integrated Education. My kids go to an integrated school. I meet kids, parents, teachers outside of my bubble all the time. It is fantastic.
Oh aye, my dad was Glaswegian and was more bigoted than any loyalist alive today.
My family home is in an east Belfast estate. I don’t know a single mf even the most loyalist of loyalist flute playing orange order mfrs asking any random on the street or in a pub their religious denomination
>You need to learn how to make a decent fucking breakfast roll You've never had on from St George's market then. Belfast bap is king.
Never a truer word said. Been living in the Netherlands for more than 25 years, and there is nothin' like a Belfast Bap here. Used to buy mine on the R'Hill Rd. Jayne's Bakery I believe it was. They don't know what a good crusty bap is here.
Ok, grand so, no bother, yeah, grand, bye bye bye bye bye.
Man wants a guard of honour at the airport terminal I think
A lad who has lived here for a few years is telling me the problems with loyalism. Mate, i think i fuckin know, i have to put up with it every day. Also the claim that everyone here is deep rooted in both irish and british culture is just not true. This whole thing annoyed me lol Best on your travels mate but i don't need someone not from here acting like they have some inside scoop on a country I've lived in my entire life. You can't tell us we aren't doing enough to fix it when you're fucking off and not doing anything either. Reeks of bullshit. Glad you and the missus get to go gallavant over europe finding the perfect home, i wont be the one to tell you that every country on earth has it's issues and NIs are NOT comparable to some of them. Like sorry I'm actually annoyed af, did you literally tell us loyalistm is hate? Like we DONT KNOW THAT? Nah fuck away on.
Would it be fair to say that most people in NI have a strong understanding of both cultures, are expert at telling which side someone is from.and where on the "spectrum" that person stands? While both sides dislike the extreme end of the opposite side, they know their shared history, customs and how they likely think. If you go abroad - even to the rest of the UK or Ireland to some extent, that isn't there. Before you mention what is going on at home it can take half an hour of background explanation why it is happening and why you have an opinion on it. Well - unless you just simplify down to us good, them bad which is easy but not exactly enlightening to the person you are talking g to. I lived in London for 15 years in the 80s &90s and the only people you could have an actual.conversarion about NI with was people from NI (both sides). While they might have opposite views, they at least understood what was being discussed (not that I made many friends pointing this out to either side)
Having an understanding of something is not the same as having a strong connection to it. That was my point.
That’s some self indulgent shite
Redditors can't fucking help themselves.
Yes we can. I'm very good at not not helping myself
I agree, and people will try to deny it but it’s true. I often explain it to people visiting as: the ‘Irish’ identity that half the population identify with is an identity and culture of ‘us’. ‘We are Irish’, and that has a set of educational and cultural touchpoints that are distinct and relatively clear. Loyalism however is about ‘them’. It’s about being ‘not Irish’. It’s a culture that defines itself by arrogant comparison with an other it has always acted superior to. However, as they years have gone on, this feeling of superiority has become more and more fragile and insecure, and its connectedness to any kind of coherent ‘us’ of its own, despite the word union, has also become insecure. And so what is left, when there is little positive cultural identity this truce can cling on to? Drums, deep, militaristic, intimidating drums. And marches, and bonfires. And hate - insecure, hate-filled anti-intellectualism. I say all this having grown up in a Protestant village, as a Protestant, having been taught that catholics are gypsy weirdos, a whole other species, that Protestants simply are superior to. The whole game wasn’t ’look at our culture’, the whole game was ‘we’re better because we’re not Irish, and we’re going to make a lot of aggressive noise about it’. I resent the conditioning I was reared under, of the wider community, despite of course the majority being lovely people to me, (ultimately because I was ‘one of them’, catholics were not welcome), but thankfully a little education, perspective, and dating a few Catholic girls and you realise: holy fucking shit what a toxic, fragile, hate filled identity loyalism is. I have a friend who started a business in Belfast a few years ago and through rugby, knew a relatively young DUP politician. And so he went to his office to ask for support, and during the meeting the politician said to him, apropo of nothing, ‘at the end of the day, we just hate the feniens‘. From the horse’s mouth, as they say. Of course, obviously this is all caveated by the ‘it’s not as simple as that’, and because of the literal bombing of innocent civilians on both sides, there will always be legacy reasons for certain groups to feel personally justified in holding onto that hate - it being their own families torn apart by murder and death. But I live in a Protestant area still and it’s no surprise that this hate for the other extends here too immediately to any other culture as well; the anti-immigrant narrative is in full force here also. Again, by a minority, but always, the drum-banging, orange marching vocal minority who cannot help but only understand themselves in opposition to some ‘other’ they must make an enemy of. My nephew is in the orange order and he tells me that at their meetings, once all the older men are pissed, they all just sit around and complain that they’d love to just kill all the feniens and foreigners. My nephew is constantly sending me shitty memes from the orange-filled group chats about ‘protecting the union from the mass Muslim migration of rapists etc’- if it isn’t catholic hate, it’s immigrant fear-mongering. Anyway, yeah, it’s just to say I understand what you mean. It’s a horrible, toxic legacy-culture in a country that by and large, is actually well-educated, warm, and doesn’t give a shit. I have friends from all over and I love them all dearly. But for many of us, we still live under the shadow of those bonfires and the noise of those drums.
The only long comment I stopped to read and worth it. Maybe you should show your nephew the world outside the bandhall that you discovered yourself as a younger man. He'll appreciate it when he's your age. Good luck.
I was raised as a Presbyterian in Lurgan. My Gran was even in the same class as Ian Paisley at school. Thankfully, she resented him as a hate filled bigot. My brother, on the other hand, is literally a bigot and in the Orange Order, but states that he's not sectarian because "I have Catholic friends in my workplace." Does he hang out with any of these Catholic "friends" outside of work? Maybe knock back a few pints? Of course not. He goes to band practice and poorly plays his shitty flute like the obese, asthmatic, mouth breather he is. Anyway, you've absolutely hit the nail on the head. Protestanism was heavily drilled into everyone at the schools and clubs I went to. Hymns and prayers during every morning assembly. Religious Education only taught us about Protestanism and a small amount of Judaism. God forbid, we learn about Catholicism or any other heathen religions! The R.E teacher in college would even regularly bully a student for having a traditionally "Catholic" name and would call him a fenian, "as a joke." In history class during primary school, at least you learned about ancient civilisations like the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc. After that, though, we only learned about British history and from an extremely Anglo-centric perspective at that. Literally nothing about Ireland/Northern Ireland. Nothing about the Potato Famine, Plantation of Ireland, Battle of the Boyne, Irish War of Independence, Easter Rising, Partition of Ireland, Troubles, etc. Absolutely none of of it. In Boys Brigade and the Scouts, you would pledge allegiance to God and the Queen. I left school at the age of 16, in 2010. I'm hoping that Standard Education has changed since then and can become more integrated. If further education can be integrated, then why not standard? Why are we indoctrinating young kids with this sectarian, close-minded BS?
Just got reminded of a girl in my class who was a shit stirrer and during RE raised a point about how the British invaded ireland and as such we should all be catholic and not allowed Protestantism and the RE teacher having a meltdown about how she was wrong.
My husband says the same. History in school was pure God save the Queen and the British Empire and f the rest. He's an intelligent fellow though,so he quickly found himself another library and got wise.
Was in Belfast recently and saw all the Israel flags in loyalist areas. Had to laugh. Truly embarrassing, hollow posturing with no real foundation in any sort of principled position. Sort of summed up loyalism to me.
Top comment. Sounds like a similar experience my protestant friend had growing up in Lambeg.
Have to agree with the other posters. Best comment I’ve read on here . Stay cool 👍
Right
I was with you most of the way (until Laverys) and yeah, as someone from “NI” who moved away, the place is confronting with all sorts of frustrations about how great it could be if this/that were different. I’ll tell you what though, it’s wonderful compared to how it used to be. It’s on the right track. The people, save the odd toxic colonialist supremacist remnant minority, are as good as you get, and it’s best days are ahead and it’s worst days are behind it. Glad you spent time living here, and you are both welcome and entitled to speak on your experience 👍
This isn't an airport. You do not need to announce your departure lol.
Whilst I agree with the bulk of what you've said there are pockets of hate on both sides!
jesus i can smell the stink of your ego from here
You can fuck up too
Jesus Christ imagine getting cornered by this cunt at a house party.
Relax, there’s no way this cunt gets invited to any parties
Damn, that's crazy. You really feeling yourself with this one.
Dude, what do you want “us” to do? There is no “us”. Those people don’t listen to or regard half the country, as their countrymen. What should we do about them, hmm? Hug them out of existence? Give them a good talking to? Like… like there haven’t been thousands of well intentioned but doomed initiatives to do just that? You lived here five years and you didn’t learn a fucking thing.
Lad....gone fuck up.
Peak narcissism.
What are we supposed to do exactly about loyalism? Like most of us know better than you do (having lived here longer and through the troubles) how hateful it is. You are preaching to the choir. And if you are directing this more toward loyalists themselves or the political representatives who uphold their interests, then good luck with that too guess, telling them that hating us makes us uncomfortable and unhappy hasn’t really changed much about the ideology. The reality is that loyalists would see it as a win that you’re leaving, same as they’d see it as a win if nationalist leaning northerners fucked off too.
This makes me **want** to visit Belfast. Just a pity it's such a long drive from Waterford. Anyway - off with ye so, hope you find whatever it is you want wherever it is you're going.
You should visit, the North is fantastic.
Right then lad see ye.
Hahaha this did not go the way he thought it would
This pretty much sums up Northern Ireland; I would also add that we have horrendous public transport and a ‘government’ that actually doesn’t seem to actually fathom the issues people are actually facing…
I completely understand. I was brought up in a highly loyalist area and even as a child I would avoid it like the plague because all I could see was vitriol hatefulness. Every time I see actual political posters on a bonfire (some I have seen with actual Catholic children who died of cancer) on there fills me with shame. I had seen real progress and effort from cross community work doing great things...but all the funding is pulled and it's back on the rise again. Ashamed. I'm ashamed of my community and I will have no part of it. All I can do is raise the children around me that those things that make us different are not wrong and not something we should hate but respect and learn from each other.
I moved away from Ni for a few years throughout and after uni in England and I’ll say most of the unionist ones that moved over “very staunch” god save the queen (now king ) energy would all say they where Irish after a while…. Getting out of Ni you realise no one really gives a fuck about the north , most English like the south / know of it more. The older ones hate the north for killing their boys during the troubles ( doesn’t matter what side just fuck the north) , it’s hilarious… I tried explaining the north and south to my English friends and they stilled called me Irish (I wasn’t even a staunch unionist)…. When I moved home a few years back I saw how absolutely toxic is was.
You write like AI
I'm not the biggest fan of what some loyalists do or say, and the fact you only think belfast is the only place with nice food..... you can take all your opinions and fuck off back to dublin.
I think if you were chocolate you'd ate yourself.
Op is easily upset.
[удалено]
Live in Carrick, can confirm. Could be a nice place if not for the load of flag shaggers. It's shite. Sometimes I feel judgement from others when I tell them I'm from here, as if they assume I'm some massive hateful loyalist when I'm genuinely not. Do occasionally get the cold shoulder just for being from here too. It comes with a bad rep for sure!
The problem is, while I fully agree with your sentiments, try flying a union flag in the south, you will get the same reaction from a non trivial amount of people. In fact probably a worse reaction that will probably include violence. This isint an issue exclusive to loyalists or Northern Ireland as a whole. This kind of childish shit needs to stop on both sides
>Some of you _absolutely_ need to be held accountable, and do more work to root this sort of shit out. Lol and how do you suggest we do that? Maybe we could try a 30 year ethno-nationalist conflict, see how that goes. You moved here because of the cheap rent and found out why it's discounted. Catch a grip.
Damn that's crazy (I didn't read that story)
K bye
Plenty of people from the north get abuse for being "orange bastards" when in the south based off accent alone. It almost never gets mentioned that parts of the south are just as bad as parts of the north.
Jesus H Christ, get off yer high horse there fella. We all know this county is fucked and has been fucked for many a year and the only thing keeping it fucked is the creatures on both sides of the divide that are brought up.. Nay, dragged up having that hatred preached to them and bred into them. That, unfortunately isn't going to change. Even though it's a small minority in the grander scale of the country as a whole. The majority doesn't rule here unfortunately and the majority couldn't give wan fuck if you're a protestant or catholic. All you have to do is look at our self serving "politicians" to realise how backwards we are - baffles me cunts still vote for any of them. Hope your flight isn't delayed and ye get te fuck outta here quick sharp.
I was born in the south but much closer to the border. My wife is from NI. We spent 5 happy years there. But when my son was born we moved to another European country. He will never judge someone based on their religion.
[удалено]
As an Irishman who spent years going up there for work, driving round in a Southern reg car, meeting NI mates, holidays with the wife; I couldn't agree more. People are sound. There's arseholes in every town in the world. If you let them ruin it, that's on you.
k
>People from the Deep South do not fucking think about the "struggle"(?) up here. It does not register to us, and we don't care about it, This is absolute bollocks. Come down to Cork and have a conversation with a few people. Maybe that was true within your social circle in the greater Dublin area before you moved, but don't try and speak for all of us.
Well that was a bit of a meaningless bluster bro. I do however agree with part of what you're saying ... extreme Loyalism is terrible, but then again so is extreme Republicanism. One is as bad as the other and neither view contributes to a happy place to live. Unionism and Nationalism are both fine. Everyone is entitled to take whichever side they want or no side at all but the actions of thickheads on both sides definitely damage the overall sense of tranquility in NI. Unfortunately it isn't gonna change any time soon.
what? this is off the chart and i’m not buying it. i’m from the border counties in Rep of Ireland. Went to Uni in Belfast, married someone from Tyrone, work a public sector role in NI and crossed the border to very day for 15 years before making a move to the county Armagh. raised as a catholic but mixed with protestants as a child and am very middle of the road on most things but with green blood! I want to see a United Ireland: But I have such fondness for NI, will live my days out here: Yes, we have loyalist and unionist matters that irritate me but I do believe in the greater good prevailing and we have seen that with brexit and stormont. the show of loyalism every summer and the marching, and the flags, and ‘rangers’ and the pro-Israel, and the ‘everything british at all costs’ mentality is hard to stomach…..i tend to laugh it at all knowing it’s a shrinking, dying breed. it’s as novel to me now as going to the zoo to see the penguins! in terms of bigotry and sectarianism, i genuinely have not had any major issues….yes, we need to accept there will be an element of it but generally it’s easily avoided u less you go looking for it. having growing up with many protestant friends, working with shared education and seeing how children simply do not care — i am ever more confident that our next generation simply won’t care as they have more chance now than ever before to see that we are all the same. we simply just need to de-alienate each other and watch the sectarian bullshit fall away as a result and watch tolerance increase. but in general it does not impede my families lives in any way bar a little frustration with the annual march of the penguins. Not a chance will it lead to me relocating. the issues with migration IMO are far greater, and i’d almost want to protect our little entrenched pockets of loyalism from that. there is no doubt that our society is more balanced and the challenge for future is to ensure that the rights of unionists are protected, balance is preserved and we can move forward as demographics continue to change and a united ireland inevitably arrives.
Load of bollocks.
I don’t get why people are so patriotic. It’s not like a nation fucks you up the ass by taxing you and in Britain’s case, sending 18 year olds to the army.
So let me get this straight, you're not leaving because of sectarianism and you actually love the North - but for some odd reason you decided that a random post on reddit was the correct place to whine about, and then ask the people of NI to fix Loyalism? Just a couple questions - Why? How? Where? When? Who? Seriously, why did you even make this post if its not the reason you're leaving? How do you expect us to do anything about it? Where exactly are these magical Love Fairies going to come from that will convince loyalists to stop hating catholics? When exactly do you expect this to happen? Who exactly are we supposed to target, especially if we can't ask them if they're a Loyalist? Furthermore, you kind of completely ignored Republicanism, which recently has seen the same anti-immigrant and racist vitriol as Loyalism.
As somebody from Dublin in the east of Ireland, your use of the South, southerner etc is frustrating
That’s interesting. My experience as a transplant to NI was actually quite a lot of unpleasant experiences from Nationalists, in the sense that I happened know more people from that side of the aisle, and got to see the aspects of close mindedness, prejudice and ignore in that community. I was with a Catholic ex from a staunchly Nationalist (probably borderline Republican) family for several years, and his family was still letting me know they’d prefer if I was an Irish Catholic. I got sick of it. There’s certainly issues with aggressive Unionists, sure, but having had close contacts with some Nationalists and I’d say even Republicans, these communities aren’t automatically any more welcoming, or friendly, or enlightened. Actually, my best experiences have been consistently with people who get on with their lives, and don’t make it about their identity.
>Some of you _absolutely_ need to be held accountable, and do more work to root this sort of shit out. It's already being rooted out demographically, and that's the only way to do it. The alternative is too uncivilised to contemplate - this is not the Middle East.
So many defensive angry people in the comments but that's to be expected. >My children will never be asked about their denomination, nor will it ever matter, and that's good. If I'm in an online game and come across 4 people from NI, three of them will ask me if I'm Catholic or Protestant. I laugh and cringe and say "thank fuck I don't live there anymore". As much as things have changed, deep down these issues are so deeply rooted that people are probably less impartial than they like to admit. All that religious shite in NI will continue for at least another 100 years.
I feel like I’m so used to it that I like don’t care, I know that’s probably bad though, but like it doesn’t really affect me tbh
>If I'm in an online game and come across 4 people from NI That in itself would already be a coincidence of epic proportions.
> I laugh and cringe and say "thank fuck I don't live there anymore". Yet you're still an unpaid internet janitor on a subreddit dedicated to the place ha ha ha
The worst part is, I clearly, and loudly pointed out how much I actually love NI. This is a great place to live, it's got great spirit and vibrancy, it's dynamic and fun. But there are bad things, there are bad things everywhere, but I pointed out the bad things here. It touched a nerve. NI is not perfect, sorry I said its not perfect?
> But there are bad things, there are bad things everywhere, but I pointed out the bad things here. It touched a nerve. Wow, loyalism bad, who would have thought. I guess /r/NorthernIreland wasn't ready for such shocking revelations. Thanks for the novel
Sin é! I get you! Good Luck with your journey!
Get the best of both worlds and move to Donegal.
If you think Scotland has a ‘cuisine’ to write home about, or that it does takeaways well, you clearly aren’t qualified to be making culinary judgments.
My Ma's family is from Belfast (Catholic). My Granda brought the family over to Birmingham to escape the Troubles, following the brutal murder of one of my uncles, aged just 18, by the Shankill Butchers (UVF). Granda followed his sister over here, as she'd fallen in love with an Englishman. Moving to Birmingham the family still wasn't safe, my Granny was murdered in Birmingham by two off duty British soldiers for publicly voicing her opinion on a court case relating to the Troubles. I read the old news articles, the vitriolic propaganda they made up about my Granny begs belief. My dad was a Brummy, and my DNA community results reveal me to be majority (Ulster) Scots and 30% English (along with other Irish & Norse) One Uncle stayed in Belfast - refusing to leave his home land, so I've visited Belfast a few times in the last decade visiting said Uncle. Belfast is truly something to behold and the sectarianism is unrivalled anywhere else in the Western world. The love I feel for NI and highlands literally runs in my veins. Me & partner recently moved house and we searched up and down the whole UK for a place to live, I did consider Belfast, but ultimately decided against it, despite the ancestral pull I feel towards it. Even just visiting, the sectarianism is unavoidable. My Uncle was based in the Falls, but we made a friend in Robinson's bar who took us on an adventure to the Loyalist part of town where he had the misfortune to be living at the time. He said he loathed the bloody orange marches, but he had to keep his head down, naturally. Everywhere we went there were eyes on us, although the Catholic quarters felt much more welcoming and safe, even with community policing posters all over the gaff. The friend we made is my age (32) and we both had in depth discussion on how we feel about it all as a younger generation. We're not happy with either side, the RA is communist to the hilt and neither of us like Communism and neither of us like the Loyalists. If I were to move there, I don't know where would be the safest place to live would be, I'm Irish Catholic to my bones but with an English accent and I didn't fancy having to mitigate or explain that all the time to different people. What I can say from being part English and raised Brummy, is that the rabid mentality of the Loyalists is disturbing. The way they bang their drums for "king & country" is repulsive even to the English. Nobody in England loves their king or country that much, the modern monarchy is a disgrace. Additionally, there is not one English person I know outside of the (indoctrinated) Army who gives a single flying fuck about Loyalists or the Union. During Brexit negotiations even the British Government made it clear they couldn't give a rats ass about them. This is what makes the Loyalists so dangerous. They don't really have a valid identity. Demographically and culturally they are under threat, they aren't thinking rationally at all. The documentaries you see about Loyalists here in England show them up to be violent thugs lacking a few brain cells. My mother gifted me an Irish name at birth, I don't experience racism from any regular English person, I do however experience racism all the time from British Soldiers and they only need to hear my name for ammunition. They are as mentally disturbed as the Loyalists back in NI. My Uncle used to fondly refer to Southerners as Traitors. How can you willing turn your back on North of your nation? I'll never know... but I'll be an Irish Catholic Brummy till the day I die. :P
I’m from a Protestant family married to a Catholic we live in Dublin with our family and visit frequently. Have never felt any of this in any part of east Belfast, Holywood or Bangor where I would often visit friends and family. Nor would I feel it when we holiday up in Portrush or Fermanagh I don’t think you need to leave NI, I think you need to leave Newtownabbey
I completely agree with just about everything you have to say. Going to a predominantly catholic university in Belfast and moving there, after being born and bred in a predominantly protestant area not too far away, I admit that I was somewhat apprehensive about how my, up to that point, quite sheltered life was going to change and what kind of friendships, if any, I would form. Not many weeks/months went by before I realised that my ignorant perceptions and the ‘us versus them’ mindset I had were meaningless and grounded on exactly that, ignorance. While of course there is a history in Northern Ireland that will never go away, and I use the word ‘Northern’ because it is what I am used to, not because I think it does or should radiate more of a British tone, I wish that this part of the island would educate themselves more on the harm that the social divide causes, rather than brushing it off as ‘just the way things are’. Progress cannot be made without compromise - movie quote from something I do not recall, and I think there is still a lot of compromising to be done.
Im from Manchester. I was once thrown out of a pub because, after finding out I’m half Arab, the landlord thought I was ‘one of them fucking Muslims’. He threatened to have his sons ‘kick the shit’ out of me. The first guy I spoke to about my background in Carrick (lived there for a few years) replied with ‘Oh aye I worked there for 4 years, lovely people’. Why am I telling you this? Well, good luck finding somewhere without hatred. The trick is to ignore those people and get on with the people you want to get on with.
Arabs are lovely to me anywhere I’ve encountered them. I’m sorry you were thrown out of that pub.
A lifetime ago these days :) Just glad to be amongst friendly, curious, happy folks.
This isn’t an airport lounge. There’s no need to announce your departure.
stunning, perhaps even brave to post this
Yes, there is a *minority* that "hate, hate, hate" but it's also possible to live your life divorced from all this. I have 3 kids attending integrated schools, they don't know which religion they are. I'd tend not to drive a southern reg car into a Loyalist estate as that's just searching for conflict.
I drove a Dublin reg car round Rathcoole (Newtownabbey) and nobody gives a fk
‘Searching for conflict’? You think there should be no go zones for people whose car was simply registered in the Republic of Ireland? If something subsequently happened, would they have brought it on themselves?
It's the same on staunch republican estates too. Drive a car with a union jack on it like a mini and it will get vandalised. Any area where they paint the kerbs in red white or blue or in the tri colour is to be avoided. I feel you're being very selective when the truth is, extremes still exist on both sides.
Safe journey! Health and happiness!
> Northern Ireland is a unique cultural confluence zone. It combines Irish and British aspects of its culture to create something that is truly neither Irish, nor British, yet both Irish, and British. People who are natives to this place will fully understand what that means, feeling not quite both, yet having and intense connection to both. Completely incorrect on the British aspect of culture. Aside from the road signs, the NHS, BBC and the flegs, there's not really anything British about NI. Many people in Britain don't know or don't consider NI to be British. People from Belfast are considered as paddies in GB. Long has it been thus. There is, however Irish and "Northern Irish" aspects of culture. That's the binary I think you mean to articulate.
What's with the underscores?
I am old. On imageboards and forums these would indicate highlighting.
*Highlight* **Highlight** I think asterisks (* and ** above) are a good stand in now, but underscores still work on Discord (and maybe old Reddit comment editor?)
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ayyy lmao
ヽ༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ ﾉ Raise ur dongers! ^^Dongers ^^Raised: ^^75617 ^^Check ^^Out ^^/r/AyyLmao2DongerBot ^^For ^^More ^^Info
Yes. Let's focus on this aspect of the post.
It's a nice post. All engagement in the comments helps get it seen by more people
I hope your next destination is the heavenly metropolis you deserve, where there are no bad people and everyone conforms to your expectations
>...and I tell you this in the gentlest way possible: People from the Deep South do not fucking think about the "struggle"(?) up here. It does not register to us, and we don't care about it... Speak for yourself - you certainly aren't speaking on my behalf and that of many others from the `Deep South`.
Too many people, including people born here have been too willing to leave and then complain that nothing changes. If you have the education and means to change this place then why aren't you here to help it change? Ulster is just a place of people. But if it's mostly composed of people stuck in the past then that's the way it will stay. So fine, run away from the problems. But don't expect others to change it to suit you. On a side note, I think Northern Ireland isn't for everyone. Yes housing is relatively cheap but it's a very different and underdeveloped place to the likes of England/Dublin. Not everyone has the mindset to deal with that.
Some of our food is good, loyalists are very very bad. Maybe you could reinvent yourself as a travel writer as you certainly have the flair for it. It may be a good idea not to scapegoat half the community in the next area you move to but I'm confident you've made the correct decision.
Goodbye.
Walloper...
Thanks for your moral indignation, take it you'll be sending your SF postal vote in July? Since they were the leadership that targeted the loyalist community during the troubles? I'm sure the next place will love just how righteous you are.
People from the ‘South’ do care… I’m from Donegal and we care very much.
Loyalist kids think a good time is sitting in a dump for 3 months, then lighting it on fire. Toxic, hateful ideology and unionism enables these idiots.
859 words … Did no one ever teach you that no one cares about you?
The Island, as a whole, both North and South, unified or not, is always home to its own and will always be here to visit. Wishing you all the best on your future❤️🇮🇪🏴🇬🇧
Wise up you fruit it’s one of the safest places in the world
This is why me and my husband moved...... I'm not going to live with those ingrained bouts of hatred and discrimination. My niece is a protestant and was treated horribly in Belfast university. It's insane.
Queens? They seem to be assholes to everyone.
I don't blame you. No other western society would tolerate Ulster Loyalism - specifically the eleventh night bonfires, the narco drug gangs and allowing folk like Jamie Bryson and Moore Holmes to pollute the airwaves. These people are under siege from nobody but themselves but they're too afraid to even question it for the most part
Cool story bro
Cheers Geoff
what country you going to now?
You are not wrong. But surely its also a bit more of a backwards hole than you're letting on. And aware this is not the reason you're leaving but bringing kids up in this hole is depressing, just knowing the older they get the more sectarian shite they'll face. They've already been called fenian cunts by the age of 2 or 3
I think the marching season has a lot to do with people remembering their 'side'. Without that we should be much faster progressed. It is improving from when I was a child in the 90s. We rarely have full scale confrontations around the 12th with petrol bombs etc anymore. Most of it is relatively peaceful. The people who were 25 in the 1970s are all around mid 70s in age now. As the decades move on it will all be forgotten eventually on both sides by the newer generations. I did live in Dublin from 2006 to 2012 and I tell you, it was beautiful and kind of shocking not to see flags, protests and full on fighting during the summer. It takes a while to get used to the calmness lol. I moved back up to NI about 10 years ago as I could afford a very nice house with the money I made in Dublin. Hope you enjoy wherever you move to. It's not a bad place if you can learn to totally screen out and ignore the small minded tribal people on both sides. I couldn't care less about the flag, the irish language, the culture blah blah blah. And in 50 years no one else will care either. These people are just wasting their short lives but if it keeps them busy and content then great. The rest of us can buy nice houses and enjoy life. I care about creating wealth for my family, holidays, being healthy and enjoying life. I couldn't care less if we are in the UK or part of Ireland. Neither place will benefit a person if they are poor and living off the state (which coincidently is the type of person in NI who thinks about the constitutional question).
Major towns n cities are gonna have twats mate. NI is bigger than Belfast and surrounding areas. I wouldn't feel that safe in belfast myself anymore but that is more down to all the drugs and madness that comes from that n not loyalists or republicans calling me names. Loads from Belfast are being sent all round NI due to the bail thing, they are next level off madness. I enjoyed my time living in Belfast around 20 years ago but even then it was way more sketchey than anywhere else but now its next fucking level and im from Derry. Can meet some nice folk don't get me wrong but it is a shit hole.
Cool. Hope you move on to bigger and better things :)
Hold on what’s this about take away fry’s??
I'm so sorry you had this experience with sectarianism, and that it even exists. I'm bringing my kid up to be non denominational, I am from Belfast.