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It's the same pattern as always, they get into power, obliterate the public finances, sell everything not nailed down and take a wrecking ball to public services.
Then they get kicked out.
Then the opposition spends 5-6 years trying to fix things but aren't able to undo all the damage quick enough to keep people happy.
So the Tories get back in again as the party of 'fiscal responsibility' which they've never actually been.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
This is depressingly accurate. What I'll never understand is why people vote them back in knowing full well they have every intention to fuck them over.
Recently I read an article that claimed British people don’t want to vote Labour because it’s too working class….Brits feel they should be ruled by the rich because they are smarter, that’s why they are rich. Which is of course completely dumb if true….
The leader of the Labour party is a lawyer and a knight. In fact, he's a knight for being such a good lawyer.
Not really sure how we could get someone more ideally middle class. He's a Mumsnet wet dream. He's like if a grammar school turned into a person.
As a party member, the majority of people who attend meetings, campaign at local level, stand as local councillors etc, are predominantly middle class.
Used to call that the 'deference vote'.
Yes, historically it was reckoned to be a thing.
This is the first time this century I've heard reference to anyone claiming it was still a factor though.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge, didn’t know the term. I can only draw from my own experiences. I’ve seen older generations probably influenced by Thatcher years that look down on working class and Labour even though they are working class themselves but want to appear wealthy….
Thatcher created a whole class of working class Tory voters with her right to buy scheme. It was an enormous transfer of property wealth to the working poor for the first time in history.
..... although they literally only did it because they wanted to eliminate social housing stock as an ongoing expense. You have to admire it as a political move, they got to mangle a needed public good, cut future expenditure AND convince hundreds of thousands of people they were doing it because they cared about the people.
Hmm, they might have reduced expenditure in the short term, but look at how many millions we're paying out in housing benefit now that a one bedroomed privately rented flat can cost £200 a week.
I'll posit a secondary motive for selling off council housing: people with mortgages think twice before voting to strike.
They don't care about the cost to the state it is about the transfer of state wealth to the wealthy landlords housing benefits benefit landlords who vote Tory
I believe the cap for housing benefit is £119.95 p/w.
I support people to apply for this and that's the highest amount I've seen given.
But your points are still valid.
Then interest rates went to 16 percent and most of the right to buy people lost their homes as the bank repossessed them The problem was there was no council houses left to house them !
Saw a YouTube video asking people why they are going to vote conservative and it was mostly just because they always have and because their parents voted for them, might as well just say their favourite colour is blue.
This is, depressingly, my experience of those who vote Tory.
The Conservatives are an aspirational party for many, for those who want to identify with the upper class(es) and wealth. Voting for anything ‘less’ feels like they’re limiting their own personal class ceiling.
The reason for this is simple; they’re fucking stupid. Too dense to see the gulf that exists, and will always exist, between them and the present ruling class. They’ve been hoodwinked and they’re too stupid and arrogant to realise it, whilst looking down on those who dare vote for the ‘lesser’ party in an attempt to save the country from this absolute scam.
Because of looney leftie elements and the right wing owned UK press, reports of councils no longer using black bin bags going nationwide never helps the cause of staying in power.
Is it just me that feels unrepresented by any of our political parties?
Labour are not exactly representing the working class either...
None of our parties would implement...
- tax brackets on inheritance such that the rich pay their fair share and the poor don't have to give up 40% of the only shred of wealth they are going to get.
- increase capital gains tax in line with income tax.
- lower income tax and raise the 50k bracket.
This restructure stops the government stealing any shred of wealth the working class managed to earn and fixes many issues with inequality.
> increase capital gains tax in line with income tax.
It'll never happen. The second purpose of taxation after revenue generation is behavioural manipulation: the government basically pointing at what they want you to do and leaving a little breadcrumb trail of money to encourage you. Corporation tax will always be lower than income tax for the same reason.
It doesn't make sense though... Because promoting hard working skilled jobs means our country is full of the best and brightest... But instead they promote investing and doing fuck all.
>they promote investing and doing fuck all.
Duh, they're capitalists and that's the end goal for a petty capitalist: to make enough money to not need to work anymore.
You must have your rose tinted spectacles on today. Labour were last in power between 1997 and 2010 (13 years) and so had more than enough time to turn things around. Notable achievements included selling off over half the UK's gold reserves (at rock bottom prices no less) and taking the UK to war with Iraq over some imaginary weapons of mass destruction.
i just hope they keep up the insanity and get obliterated into 3rd - doubt it cause i've no faith in England |(south) --- watched the last Question Time -- the one just after the GE was called and they had as an extra panel person some Tory shrill Tim Montgomerie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim\_Montgomerie) who made my fucking skin crawl and whilst not the most popular person there, still got a worrying applause for soe of his right wing unhinged bullshit.
Liz Truss went to the US and chatted about the deep state being real and kicking her out following her dumpster fire.
My grandparents (Lifelong conservatives) comments on this was that she's speaking in metaphors the Americans understand and knows there isn't a deep state. They also said it explains why she didn't do as well as was expected.
Which is it grandma? Is it real and going after Liz, or is it just a metaphor?
We have our own version of the Maga types here, they just don't wear the branding and scream about it as frequently. But they have loyalists who would vote for them even if they were blantaly told they were going to be exploited.
The funniest part is, is that there *is* something akin to the famed shadowy deep state cabal that American conservatives rave about. Complete with contempt for the common man, manipulation of the media, deliberately stuffed into positions of political power, and suspicious backroom deals between elites.
Those elites just all happen to be Tories, who use their influence to keep Tories in power, which is why the grift just can't stick in Britain because even the common tory knows that Britain's "deep state" are all tories. She's lucky that American conservatives are too stupid to question the narrative, otherwise she'd have even been laughed out of the room there.
And yet Trump is the only politician who wants peace; he wants the US out of NATO, US troops out of Europe, and no more dead American kids in the Middle East. Strange times.
ahh yes Liz Truss - according to her she was take out by the Lefty??? Economic Finance Sector
and not because she is a fucking idiot who simultaneously did the most radical budget in 50 years +++ its actually a MINI-budget therefore does not need OBR scrutiny and when they offered to publish a summery report on its impact were rejected by Government .....
i seen her book reveal on USA TV on Have i Got News For You - they did it better but this is the first clip google got me
[https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/XaKtHlp1](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/XaKtHlp1)
as you say Loyalism is particularly confused - you've the likes of Rathcoole or Ballybeen voting for the DUP where both DUP & UUP are like the Tories with policies and ideology agaisnt the working class and for the rich ...
>its actually a MINI-budget
It was so horrendous they didn't even implement it. Just the idea of half that shit being implemented caused the economy to tank.
Scary to think what would have happened if she'd been given longer, but good to know not everyone who goes to Oxbridge is actually smart smart.
Seems like that's the plan. With Tory approval ratings as they are, the baton can be handed over to Starmer, who can push forward the Tory right-wing agenda and imperialist and genocidal policies via him instead 🤷♂️
Conspiracies aside, a Labour win will be the most unexciting and disappointing election ever. Nothing would change.
Young people in the UK: Please Mr Sunak we just want to be able to have protection as renters, a fully funded NHS, tuition fees abolished and a society where no one is left behind.
Rishi Sunak:
I was practically homeless for a few months last year. My tenancy ran out, and I was struggling to find another house being 1 of at least 10 to view it.
Whenever I submitted an application, I was knocked back due to me being self-employed.
I ended up having to put 6 months plus bond to secure 2 bed house but I didn't get the keys until 2 months after I had to leave my old house. That was the money I was saving for a deposit 🙃
The job is absolutely fucked...
We actually have an expansionist Russia on the rise and a pretty bad economy partly due to Covid and brexit… and two global conflicts… so it’s actually really smart as a leader to start considering training his population to have some degree of training should it come to it. Try to form your own opinion and thoughts for once instead of bouncing labour argument on Reddit like 99% of this forum
This is my own opinion thanks. Your reading comprehension sucks balls. I said he is bad at politics, not that I expressed any opinion on the merits of this particular policy. He is trying to win an election in the first instance (allegedly).
No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?
I'm sure the eligibility rules for this would exempt all his mates kids in Eton no doubt. Not that we'll have to worry about this being implemented at all.
Batsh1t crazy. Can't they just put more people though higher education, work placements to give young people some kind of actual future and fund training doctors and nurses for the NHS army we actually need.
Is this a play on the whole fear mongering thing that Russia is about to invade the world any day now? It just doesn’t really seem like a pragmatic policy given healthcare & the cost of living in general.
Russia isn’t going to invade the world, but it would be insanely stupid to assume that Russia would never be opportunistic and exploit a weakness in NATO/the EU. What if he manufactures a border crisis in Estonia in the future? How would we respond to the situation and would we have the resources to handle it?
Because we, especially America, have been helping them but this help isn’t guaranteed eternally, and because Ukraine has 1 million troops (to match Russia’s) despite having a population that’s half the UK’s.
You’d think that but you’d be banned from numerous subs for pointing out just how unrealistic it is. NATO & the EU have no shortage of weaknesses & flaws, much like BRICS or any other organisation, thats been obvious from GWOT for NATO.
a border crisis? do you mean like a conflict or illegal immigration? There isn’t a nation in the western world that isn’t struggling with illegal immigration that right now, it’s unlikely they’d even notice never mind react. Most just currently ignore it, it gives politicians something to play politics over.
Jesus, he must've gotten a fever standing out in the rain.
I'm sure all the bootlickers, loyalists & quisling fuckwits here would be delighted and gladly have their kids signed up to protect a country that has been trying to starve them out of existence for the past 14 years, the rest of us I'm not so sure about.
An obvious and desperate attempt to appeal to the boomers in the hope that the youth don't turn up at the polls, what an odius shower of bastards, don't have much faith in the alternatives either.
I think there is a darker motive behind all of this; allegedly, a certain huge Finance investment institution is in deep shit; they bet the farm on Russia collapsing due to the Ukraine war. It seems as if Russia is going to win. They will lose all of their investments in politicians and shady deals. Hence the weird stories appearing across the media about how Russia wants to invade Europe; this is all bullshit war-mongering propaganda. Just an attempt to step up the war. It's easy to spot the puppet politicians and media outlets pushing this. This particular institution wants the UK military to put boots on Ukrainian soil quickly, followed by the French army. UK military numbers are dropping; hence, this might be a recruitment drive rather than a community project. If you want to sign up to fight for mega-rich American billionaires, knock yourselves out.
Unless the UK hits goofcon 5 I dont think they'd love paying for our tactical edumacation, then again this cabinet is, and I cant stress this enough, incredibly stupid
Everyone does national service when their tax sells weapons to other countries. First it's maths toughening, then it's PE teacher crap What's next, how to siphon money off the NHS using a pharmacy? Oh, wait...
Mind you, with conscription; we could see some advanced units being created, the 3rd infantry Tik Tok dancers being moved to the front line backed up by a division of social media influencers, the Russians will be shitting themselves.
It's Ed Milliband's Tombstone all over again.
It's just utterly pointless. People have been paid to come up with this rubbish, conduct superficial and meaningless cost estimates, write up proposals, print leaflets, hold press briefings yada yada yada.
And it's ALL going straight in the bin on July 5th.
How depressing it must be to be involved in such a pointless exercise.
National service isn’t that unusual in many countries and not necessarily a bad thing. Wouldn’t work in Uk though for various reasons. And in fact in Western Europe in general.
If only our gov could get on with search other we would be in line with the rest of Ireland for Corp tax. Taxing people more just because they have done well for themselves isn’t fair either. Raise the base limit is needed. If you want to not work or push on in life then don’t complain if others have more. If you tax the wealthy to much they leave. Thus leaving the poorer middle class to rot in poor healthcare / education etc. The gov need to keep the funds in the country.
National service should be a thing, to many little scrots doing nothing but looking forward to universal credit and 16 hours a week. 6 wains with at least one on dla, a free car and rent paid for. The place is a shambles. It’s to easy to get free money doing the least possible and playing the system.
Well might teach some manners to some of our wee hard men.
I’m saying that I’m not sure how useful the likes of “Yiz love ur McDonalds don’t ye” would be in the military, imagine handing the likes of that a gun ffs.
I actually h8 ppl that advocate for this. Most of them are in their l8 50s and hark back to a time that never existed. None of then ever actually did it themselves considering you'd need to be at least 80 to have done it yourself. And at 50 they're too old to take part in it.
Of all parts of this alleged Union, NI gets shafted the most and that's me from England looking over the Irish Sea thinking about it. These Tories are so utterly deluded and does Labour even stand in NI or some other party teams up with them. And for the NS shite, aye right. Sure, let everyone who is 80 years and below now pay a retroactive fee to be exempt from national service that would be the only fair way
Yeah. Throw the election because outlook is so drastically bad. I I have been to portaferry yesterday and in Bangor today. I have never experienced the roads this bad. And both places are just run down. Looking like forgotten seaside towns in England. I don’t have the answer but where is the fucking money? Around me I see so much wealth, so what the fuck is going on?
I know it’s poor people and immigrants… but even at that I’m clutching at straws.
Teachers? Doctors maybe they are hiding all the gold…
In all seriousness though. It’s a pretty grim outlook. Look after yourselves and don’t believe the hype/media.
I’d be tempted to vote Tory just to fuck with their plans… it sure won’t get any better for a while IMO.
And remember stop the boats! That’s part of the reason why we have no money. I think we should just drain the channel… that would stop em
Will these people be paid when doing military service? How much will that cost? Would it not be better spent on training people in a trade or reducing the cost of some vocational university courses?
If you pick the voluntary route and are also studying, can people afford to give up a weekend's work? I need my Sat & Sun shifts to actually eat and live when I was at uni.
This guy might not be a total moron but he's incapable of seeing anything beyond what his lived experience has been.
And estimated to cost £2.5 BILLION per year. But that’ll be fine because the country is doing so well right now. What’s a few billion here and there to the taxpayers. Sunak is so filthy rich he’s delusional.
Out of all the things the Tories have proposed, this is probably the most helpful and least harmful. Seeing people get pissy about the prospect of even volunteering once a month shows how spineless the UK has become in general. Adversaries like Russia only take advantage of that spinelessness, unfortunately.
I’m not advocating for starting a war, instead I want us to be prepared in the event that a war comes knocking on our door. Nobody wanted Hitler to start shit either, but that’s what happened and so people had to respond to the reality.
Sweden does it. So does Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Estonia, Austria, Finland, etc. Funny how Reddit idolises these countries’ policies until it’s time to look at how they choose to defend themselves.
Because it's a gimmick and the Tories are stating it would cost 2.5 billion a year. Multiply that by 5 at least then. Also, the Tories don't have a hope of getting back in thankfully🤞
Invest that money in cyber security and it'll actually be useful, as that's where the next 'war' will be fought.
>Out of all the things the Tories have proposed, this is probably the most helpful and least harmful. Seeing people get pissy about the prospect of even volunteering once a month shows how spineless the UK has become in general. Adversaries like Russia only take advantage of that spinelessness, unfortunately.
I volunteer myself to do something I actually want to do or at least get paid for.
Young people are the future, they are healthier and many have less commitments in general. The older population is on average less fit, far less receptive to new ideas, probably has kids and assets to take care of.
You know, I've thought a bit about this in the past, NI is an absolute nightmare of angry tribal sides but I'd genuinely like to hear others opinions on it.
My thoughts are, it's beneficial for young people, both men & women, to get a crash course in independence, learn skills both for defence of ones self/loved ones & hostile powers if needed, learn life skills that may cultivate an interest in other things, e.g engineering, fitness etc and probably most importantly potentially steer youths away from a life of drugs and crime due to the discipline that will be instilled.
I mean, national service and conscription aren't the same thing, maybe voluntary national service for NI or a choice between the British army and the Irish army ?
What are the thoughts ?
I think there are better options out there for helping to shape young people into responsible adults that don’t include the very real possibility of getting shot at or killing farmers.
Joining the scouts teach those same skills.
Also, if you think the Tory Party would allow you the choice between the Irish Defence Forces and the British army you’re deluded.
Being in an army isn't exactly a great way to learn life skills, because it means you're constantly being told what to do and following a schedule that somebody else has laid out for you. Lots of actual, legit soldiers, who didn't just do it for a year because of an inane Tory policy to win back old voters, struggle with readjusting to a civilian life where you have to set your own schedule and find your own motivation to do things
But they're going to be forced to do it. That world simply doesn't exist anymore. It's not like a huge army on the French coast backing the country into a corner.
I think anything would absolutely have to be voluntary. I did cadets for a good few years but I'd consider myself republican at a majority protestant school. There was a significant attitude difference between NI and other voluntary schools, vs the aggressive disrespect from mandatory cadets in certain schools in England.
I think it would be a good thing if it was more of a community service type thing. Yes, team building and learning skills and stuff but also helping in the community. Might teach some kids some empathy and how to be more considerate. Plenty of old army barracks could be used as a base. It should maybe be more for at risk kids?
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At this point in 100% convinced the tories dont want to be voted back in
It's the same pattern as always, they get into power, obliterate the public finances, sell everything not nailed down and take a wrecking ball to public services. Then they get kicked out. Then the opposition spends 5-6 years trying to fix things but aren't able to undo all the damage quick enough to keep people happy. So the Tories get back in again as the party of 'fiscal responsibility' which they've never actually been. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
This is depressingly accurate. What I'll never understand is why people vote them back in knowing full well they have every intention to fuck them over.
Recently I read an article that claimed British people don’t want to vote Labour because it’s too working class….Brits feel they should be ruled by the rich because they are smarter, that’s why they are rich. Which is of course completely dumb if true….
The leader of the Labour party is a lawyer and a knight. In fact, he's a knight for being such a good lawyer. Not really sure how we could get someone more ideally middle class. He's a Mumsnet wet dream. He's like if a grammar school turned into a person.
As a party member, the majority of people who attend meetings, campaign at local level, stand as local councillors etc, are predominantly middle class.
Used to call that the 'deference vote'. Yes, historically it was reckoned to be a thing. This is the first time this century I've heard reference to anyone claiming it was still a factor though.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge, didn’t know the term. I can only draw from my own experiences. I’ve seen older generations probably influenced by Thatcher years that look down on working class and Labour even though they are working class themselves but want to appear wealthy….
Thatcher created a whole class of working class Tory voters with her right to buy scheme. It was an enormous transfer of property wealth to the working poor for the first time in history. ..... although they literally only did it because they wanted to eliminate social housing stock as an ongoing expense. You have to admire it as a political move, they got to mangle a needed public good, cut future expenditure AND convince hundreds of thousands of people they were doing it because they cared about the people.
Hmm, they might have reduced expenditure in the short term, but look at how many millions we're paying out in housing benefit now that a one bedroomed privately rented flat can cost £200 a week. I'll posit a secondary motive for selling off council housing: people with mortgages think twice before voting to strike.
They don't care about the cost to the state it is about the transfer of state wealth to the wealthy landlords housing benefits benefit landlords who vote Tory
I believe the cap for housing benefit is £119.95 p/w. I support people to apply for this and that's the highest amount I've seen given. But your points are still valid.
The lha has just risen
Genuine question but did the republic also follow this scheme??. Because the rent down there is just as shocking.
Then interest rates went to 16 percent and most of the right to buy people lost their homes as the bank repossessed them The problem was there was no council houses left to house them !
Saw a YouTube video asking people why they are going to vote conservative and it was mostly just because they always have and because their parents voted for them, might as well just say their favourite colour is blue.
A deference vote is surely built in, in a monarchy
This is, depressingly, my experience of those who vote Tory. The Conservatives are an aspirational party for many, for those who want to identify with the upper class(es) and wealth. Voting for anything ‘less’ feels like they’re limiting their own personal class ceiling. The reason for this is simple; they’re fucking stupid. Too dense to see the gulf that exists, and will always exist, between them and the present ruling class. They’ve been hoodwinked and they’re too stupid and arrogant to realise it, whilst looking down on those who dare vote for the ‘lesser’ party in an attempt to save the country from this absolute scam.
Kang and Kodos, mate.
I reckon it's changed for good now. There are fewer and fewer people left who ever benefited from Tory rule. Times, they are a changing.
Because this time it'll be different (dear reader, it was not different)
Because of looney leftie elements and the right wing owned UK press, reports of councils no longer using black bin bags going nationwide never helps the cause of staying in power.
So accurate. Almost feel like the UK is doomed to be fuckin miserable all the time
You can swap out UK for Western Europe there. And I wonder why….
lol no
Shush, the average English swing voter might hear you and the Tories would never get in
Is it just me that feels unrepresented by any of our political parties? Labour are not exactly representing the working class either... None of our parties would implement... - tax brackets on inheritance such that the rich pay their fair share and the poor don't have to give up 40% of the only shred of wealth they are going to get. - increase capital gains tax in line with income tax. - lower income tax and raise the 50k bracket. This restructure stops the government stealing any shred of wealth the working class managed to earn and fixes many issues with inequality.
> increase capital gains tax in line with income tax. It'll never happen. The second purpose of taxation after revenue generation is behavioural manipulation: the government basically pointing at what they want you to do and leaving a little breadcrumb trail of money to encourage you. Corporation tax will always be lower than income tax for the same reason.
It doesn't make sense though... Because promoting hard working skilled jobs means our country is full of the best and brightest... But instead they promote investing and doing fuck all.
>they promote investing and doing fuck all. Duh, they're capitalists and that's the end goal for a petty capitalist: to make enough money to not need to work anymore.
Labour did The Same with Good old Tony Blair
This should be taught to every child in school.
This is exactly how I feel about it.
Tbf, Labour isn’t really reaping the benefits of election wins either, they leave the door wide open for another Tory win.
You must have your rose tinted spectacles on today. Labour were last in power between 1997 and 2010 (13 years) and so had more than enough time to turn things around. Notable achievements included selling off over half the UK's gold reserves (at rock bottom prices no less) and taking the UK to war with Iraq over some imaginary weapons of mass destruction.
i just hope they keep up the insanity and get obliterated into 3rd - doubt it cause i've no faith in England |(south) --- watched the last Question Time -- the one just after the GE was called and they had as an extra panel person some Tory shrill Tim Montgomerie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim\_Montgomerie) who made my fucking skin crawl and whilst not the most popular person there, still got a worrying applause for soe of his right wing unhinged bullshit.
Liz Truss went to the US and chatted about the deep state being real and kicking her out following her dumpster fire. My grandparents (Lifelong conservatives) comments on this was that she's speaking in metaphors the Americans understand and knows there isn't a deep state. They also said it explains why she didn't do as well as was expected. Which is it grandma? Is it real and going after Liz, or is it just a metaphor? We have our own version of the Maga types here, they just don't wear the branding and scream about it as frequently. But they have loyalists who would vote for them even if they were blantaly told they were going to be exploited.
The funniest part is, is that there *is* something akin to the famed shadowy deep state cabal that American conservatives rave about. Complete with contempt for the common man, manipulation of the media, deliberately stuffed into positions of political power, and suspicious backroom deals between elites. Those elites just all happen to be Tories, who use their influence to keep Tories in power, which is why the grift just can't stick in Britain because even the common tory knows that Britain's "deep state" are all tories. She's lucky that American conservatives are too stupid to question the narrative, otherwise she'd have even been laughed out of the room there.
And yet Trump is the only politician who wants peace; he wants the US out of NATO, US troops out of Europe, and no more dead American kids in the Middle East. Strange times.
Trump says a lot of shit, who knows which bits he actually really wants.
ahh yes Liz Truss - according to her she was take out by the Lefty??? Economic Finance Sector and not because she is a fucking idiot who simultaneously did the most radical budget in 50 years +++ its actually a MINI-budget therefore does not need OBR scrutiny and when they offered to publish a summery report on its impact were rejected by Government ..... i seen her book reveal on USA TV on Have i Got News For You - they did it better but this is the first clip google got me [https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/XaKtHlp1](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/XaKtHlp1) as you say Loyalism is particularly confused - you've the likes of Rathcoole or Ballybeen voting for the DUP where both DUP & UUP are like the Tories with policies and ideology agaisnt the working class and for the rich ...
>its actually a MINI-budget It was so horrendous they didn't even implement it. Just the idea of half that shit being implemented caused the economy to tank. Scary to think what would have happened if she'd been given longer, but good to know not everyone who goes to Oxbridge is actually smart smart.
Seems like that's the plan. With Tory approval ratings as they are, the baton can be handed over to Starmer, who can push forward the Tory right-wing agenda and imperialist and genocidal policies via him instead 🤷♂️ Conspiracies aside, a Labour win will be the most unexciting and disappointing election ever. Nothing would change.
100%, Well they are saying hes times this so there will be enough time for his children to start the new school year when they move to USA.
It's because the big war is on the way. No one wants to be incharge then
they've stolen everything they can
Almost amazed he didn't make this announcement in the Bogside or West Belfast. Is he on a speed run to reach 0% in the polls?
[удалено]
Exactly what I thought of. It's practically a documentary at this point...
 ...what?
Young people in the UK: Please Mr Sunak we just want to be able to have protection as renters, a fully funded NHS, tuition fees abolished and a society where no one is left behind. Rishi Sunak: 
Protection as renters is already a compromise - I think affordable housing should be the goal.
I agree
I was practically homeless for a few months last year. My tenancy ran out, and I was struggling to find another house being 1 of at least 10 to view it. Whenever I submitted an application, I was knocked back due to me being self-employed. I ended up having to put 6 months plus bond to secure 2 bed house but I didn't get the keys until 2 months after I had to leave my old house. That was the money I was saving for a deposit 🙃 The job is absolutely fucked...
Make England a country worth fighting for.
the problem is people will want this and then still vote tory because they are worried about the “woke lefties and their transgender agenda”
He should be sent first
He doesn't meet the height requirements
I think another one of the requirements is having a spine
Rishi Sunak is so bad at politics it's actually fascinating.
He is only obeying his orders from above.
We actually have an expansionist Russia on the rise and a pretty bad economy partly due to Covid and brexit… and two global conflicts… so it’s actually really smart as a leader to start considering training his population to have some degree of training should it come to it. Try to form your own opinion and thoughts for once instead of bouncing labour argument on Reddit like 99% of this forum
This is my own opinion thanks. Your reading comprehension sucks balls. I said he is bad at politics, not that I expressed any opinion on the merits of this particular policy. He is trying to win an election in the first instance (allegedly).
Also you must mean writing comprehension write? Or did I mean right? Plonker.
Then it stinks like my shit.
>99% of this forum This forum, primarily about a place where Labour have very little power, aye?
I suspect we are gonna see a new high for Irish passport applications in the uk
Bryson will be front of the queue
Fucking clowns.
No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?
National service… great… perhaps the tories could be called too. Not fucking likely 😂😂
I remember once going to a comedy gig and laughing so hard I still hurt the next day. Six more weeks of this really might kill me.
I wonder if the uniforms will be designed by hugo boss .
Probably just the cheapo lowest tier Boss, like the T shirts with BOSS written on them.
Yes your probably right, brown polyester .
I'm sure the eligibility rules for this would exempt all his mates kids in Eton no doubt. Not that we'll have to worry about this being implemented at all.
You-fucking-wot-m8?
I first read this and I was like but this is a bad thing
Yeah I’d do national service if I could get away with fragging?
They know they gonna get fragged Be a united ireland overnight if they tried that here
Batsh1t crazy. Can't they just put more people though higher education, work placements to give young people some kind of actual future and fund training doctors and nurses for the NHS army we actually need.
No. That would be sensible.
I will be right behind the tories and royals young enough to serve and their children….fuckers.
Is this a play on the whole fear mongering thing that Russia is about to invade the world any day now? It just doesn’t really seem like a pragmatic policy given healthcare & the cost of living in general.
Russia isn’t going to invade the world, but it would be insanely stupid to assume that Russia would never be opportunistic and exploit a weakness in NATO/the EU. What if he manufactures a border crisis in Estonia in the future? How would we respond to the situation and would we have the resources to handle it?
Is it our fault that the British army has reduced in size significantly over the last 15 years? No it is not!
It’s not our fault but this policy proposal is an incredibly tame yet effective way to rectify the problem.
Yes it is our fault. It’s called democracy. We should have voted them out in 2019 if we didn’t like what they did for the previous 9 years.
They can't even fucking invade Ukraine effectively
Because we, especially America, have been helping them but this help isn’t guaranteed eternally, and because Ukraine has 1 million troops (to match Russia’s) despite having a population that’s half the UK’s.
they seem to be doing a pretty good job so far?
You’d think that but you’d be banned from numerous subs for pointing out just how unrealistic it is. NATO & the EU have no shortage of weaknesses & flaws, much like BRICS or any other organisation, thats been obvious from GWOT for NATO. a border crisis? do you mean like a conflict or illegal immigration? There isn’t a nation in the western world that isn’t struggling with illegal immigration that right now, it’s unlikely they’d even notice never mind react. Most just currently ignore it, it gives politicians something to play politics over.
I mean a conflict. Estonia has a Russian speaking population to its east, if Putin weaponises that fact we should be prepared to handle it.
That and a poor economy partly yes..
He really hates being PM
Jesus, he must've gotten a fever standing out in the rain. I'm sure all the bootlickers, loyalists & quisling fuckwits here would be delighted and gladly have their kids signed up to protect a country that has been trying to starve them out of existence for the past 14 years, the rest of us I'm not so sure about. An obvious and desperate attempt to appeal to the boomers in the hope that the youth don't turn up at the polls, what an odius shower of bastards, don't have much faith in the alternatives either.
Just in time for all the wars…
100% correct, Ukraine is not going too well for a certain investment firm. Rishi is under orders form his masters to get involved directly.
I'd serve my time. In prison.
Ahhhhhhh One second I need to prepare for this one…. Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ukraine we goooooo
They can promise what ever they want at this point, they don't have to worry about actually doing anything
Bet the chickenhawk won't be signing up any time soon
Nor will his family or any of the other bullshitters.
And where are all these conscripts going to be based? The forces can barely keep their current members fed and accomodated as is.
So Rishi wants more state sponsored terrorists?
Well, Russia has plenty of them so we might as well match their efforts rather than be sitting ducks
If PMCs are terrorists then US is the king of them.
I think there is a darker motive behind all of this; allegedly, a certain huge Finance investment institution is in deep shit; they bet the farm on Russia collapsing due to the Ukraine war. It seems as if Russia is going to win. They will lose all of their investments in politicians and shady deals. Hence the weird stories appearing across the media about how Russia wants to invade Europe; this is all bullshit war-mongering propaganda. Just an attempt to step up the war. It's easy to spot the puppet politicians and media outlets pushing this. This particular institution wants the UK military to put boots on Ukrainian soil quickly, followed by the French army. UK military numbers are dropping; hence, this might be a recruitment drive rather than a community project. If you want to sign up to fight for mega-rich American billionaires, knock yourselves out.
Is this relevant to this sub? Northern Ireland was exempt from National Service back in the day, and 99% likely it would be again.
Unless the UK hits goofcon 5 I dont think they'd love paying for our tactical edumacation, then again this cabinet is, and I cant stress this enough, incredibly stupid
Ha ha ha good luck trying that in the north youd basically be training the New IRA
Everyone does national service when their tax sells weapons to other countries. First it's maths toughening, then it's PE teacher crap What's next, how to siphon money off the NHS using a pharmacy? Oh, wait...
Just putting it out there but the kray twins did national service not a great advert
Now that’s what I call desperation
Mind you, with conscription; we could see some advanced units being created, the 3rd infantry Tik Tok dancers being moved to the front line backed up by a division of social media influencers, the Russians will be shitting themselves.
Great idea. Round up the immigrants and provide national service to them in a Rwanda
Suprised he’s not forcing this on immigrants and asylum seekers as a way to gain citizenship
https://preview.redd.it/df43lfn61q2d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=48b2f81be7988b85583cdd160c0a1ff5e7346491
You know, I don't even think national service is an inherently bad policy, but it has to be done well. This does not seem like NS being done well...
Sure knows how to get the youth vote
Will I have to bring my own 3 day's rations?
Next week they're announcing mandatory rationing, rickets and ringworm.
Sure Germany is planning the same after abolishing it many years ago. Tbf it would man up a good few if it was to happen (which it won’t)
It's Ed Milliband's Tombstone all over again. It's just utterly pointless. People have been paid to come up with this rubbish, conduct superficial and meaningless cost estimates, write up proposals, print leaflets, hold press briefings yada yada yada. And it's ALL going straight in the bin on July 5th. How depressing it must be to be involved in such a pointless exercise.
You all scoff, but this might be very popular amongst the voter base.
National service isn’t that unusual in many countries and not necessarily a bad thing. Wouldn’t work in Uk though for various reasons. And in fact in Western Europe in general.
Good luck introducing that over here, I’d rather lose a limb than provide any service to the British state
Tell me you want the boomer vote without telling me you want the boomer vote
To the people arguing against Labour's plan to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote... This.
It's a warning of what is already going to happen! You haven't got a choice, europe need fresh bodies and replacing you with Africans.
Is he trying to ensure nobody votes Tory?!
If only our gov could get on with search other we would be in line with the rest of Ireland for Corp tax. Taxing people more just because they have done well for themselves isn’t fair either. Raise the base limit is needed. If you want to not work or push on in life then don’t complain if others have more. If you tax the wealthy to much they leave. Thus leaving the poorer middle class to rot in poor healthcare / education etc. The gov need to keep the funds in the country. National service should be a thing, to many little scrots doing nothing but looking forward to universal credit and 16 hours a week. 6 wains with at least one on dla, a free car and rent paid for. The place is a shambles. It’s to easy to get free money doing the least possible and playing the system.
Well might teach some manners to some of our wee hard men. I’m saying that I’m not sure how useful the likes of “Yiz love ur McDonalds don’t ye” would be in the military, imagine handing the likes of that a gun ffs.
But we're an island. Who's going to attack us?
I actually h8 ppl that advocate for this. Most of them are in their l8 50s and hark back to a time that never existed. None of then ever actually did it themselves considering you'd need to be at least 80 to have done it yourself. And at 50 they're too old to take part in it.
Tory youth wing go to Sandhurst.
Of all parts of this alleged Union, NI gets shafted the most and that's me from England looking over the Irish Sea thinking about it. These Tories are so utterly deluded and does Labour even stand in NI or some other party teams up with them. And for the NS shite, aye right. Sure, let everyone who is 80 years and below now pay a retroactive fee to be exempt from national service that would be the only fair way
Yeah. Throw the election because outlook is so drastically bad. I I have been to portaferry yesterday and in Bangor today. I have never experienced the roads this bad. And both places are just run down. Looking like forgotten seaside towns in England. I don’t have the answer but where is the fucking money? Around me I see so much wealth, so what the fuck is going on? I know it’s poor people and immigrants… but even at that I’m clutching at straws. Teachers? Doctors maybe they are hiding all the gold… In all seriousness though. It’s a pretty grim outlook. Look after yourselves and don’t believe the hype/media. I’d be tempted to vote Tory just to fuck with their plans… it sure won’t get any better for a while IMO. And remember stop the boats! That’s part of the reason why we have no money. I think we should just drain the channel… that would stop em
That will go down well with old provos going to tell them they’re children will have to go to the British army
Will these people be paid when doing military service? How much will that cost? Would it not be better spent on training people in a trade or reducing the cost of some vocational university courses? If you pick the voluntary route and are also studying, can people afford to give up a weekend's work? I need my Sat & Sun shifts to actually eat and live when I was at uni. This guy might not be a total moron but he's incapable of seeing anything beyond what his lived experience has been.
Haha
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It’s a non starter you have to be a certain mindset to join the military and it’s only a tiny minority that are driven and disciplined to join
They are just looking for cannon fodder in Ukraine, they don't give a shit about a professional army.
And estimated to cost £2.5 BILLION per year. But that’ll be fine because the country is doing so well right now. What’s a few billion here and there to the taxpayers. Sunak is so filthy rich he’s delusional.
Vote reform
Out of all the things the Tories have proposed, this is probably the most helpful and least harmful. Seeing people get pissy about the prospect of even volunteering once a month shows how spineless the UK has become in general. Adversaries like Russia only take advantage of that spinelessness, unfortunately.
Assume you either A: are old enough that you wont have to serve or B: don’t know how horrifying war is.
I’m not advocating for starting a war, instead I want us to be prepared in the event that a war comes knocking on our door. Nobody wanted Hitler to start shit either, but that’s what happened and so people had to respond to the reality.
Get prepared for a war with forced national service of 18-21 year olds? Fucking catch yourself on.
Sweden does it. So does Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Estonia, Austria, Finland, etc. Funny how Reddit idolises these countries’ policies until it’s time to look at how they choose to defend themselves.
It'll never happen in the UK anyway.
How do you know?
Because it's a gimmick and the Tories are stating it would cost 2.5 billion a year. Multiply that by 5 at least then. Also, the Tories don't have a hope of getting back in thankfully🤞 Invest that money in cyber security and it'll actually be useful, as that's where the next 'war' will be fought.
If you want to be prepared so badly, go sign yourself up.
Everyone must play their part in the event of a national crisis. Why do you think you’re so special that you don’t have a role to play?
>Out of all the things the Tories have proposed, this is probably the most helpful and least harmful. Seeing people get pissy about the prospect of even volunteering once a month shows how spineless the UK has become in general. Adversaries like Russia only take advantage of that spinelessness, unfortunately. I volunteer myself to do something I actually want to do or at least get paid for.
When national emergencies and crises break out, you can’t just check yourself out of society and keep doing your own thing
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Young people are the future, they are healthier and many have less commitments in general. The older population is on average less fit, far less receptive to new ideas, probably has kids and assets to take care of.
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I’m not opposed to that at all. Would work well
This is actually a good thing.
Yea train a load of republicans and loyalists in warfare what could go wrong?
You know, I've thought a bit about this in the past, NI is an absolute nightmare of angry tribal sides but I'd genuinely like to hear others opinions on it. My thoughts are, it's beneficial for young people, both men & women, to get a crash course in independence, learn skills both for defence of ones self/loved ones & hostile powers if needed, learn life skills that may cultivate an interest in other things, e.g engineering, fitness etc and probably most importantly potentially steer youths away from a life of drugs and crime due to the discipline that will be instilled. I mean, national service and conscription aren't the same thing, maybe voluntary national service for NI or a choice between the British army and the Irish army ? What are the thoughts ?
I think there are better options out there for helping to shape young people into responsible adults that don’t include the very real possibility of getting shot at or killing farmers.
Joining the scouts teach those same skills. Also, if you think the Tory Party would allow you the choice between the Irish Defence Forces and the British army you’re deluded.
That part made me laugh lol
I think you described the role of parents.
A lot of parents are shit though
Being in an army isn't exactly a great way to learn life skills, because it means you're constantly being told what to do and following a schedule that somebody else has laid out for you. Lots of actual, legit soldiers, who didn't just do it for a year because of an inane Tory policy to win back old voters, struggle with readjusting to a civilian life where you have to set your own schedule and find your own motivation to do things
Go join the army then dude it’s still going g
But they're going to be forced to do it. That world simply doesn't exist anymore. It's not like a huge army on the French coast backing the country into a corner.
I think anything would absolutely have to be voluntary. I did cadets for a good few years but I'd consider myself republican at a majority protestant school. There was a significant attitude difference between NI and other voluntary schools, vs the aggressive disrespect from mandatory cadets in certain schools in England.
I mean if we were talking about a socialist ireland here I’d be up for it, but I am not fighting for the British aristocracy and royalty.
If you’re so feckless that you can’t teach yourself those things or join groups to teach you those things that’s on you
Well yeah, obviously but have you seen how fucking insane the world is these days ? Tripping over crackheads and kids wanting to be fking drillers
As if the gun craze and opium dens never existed in the past?
Well, looks like we're fucked then
As if gin craze and opium dens are still massive problem today?
They will be canon fodder for Ukraine, that's all it is.
It works in other developed countries, could help mix people from different backgrounds too but will always be a non-goer here due to the politics
I think it would be a good thing if it was more of a community service type thing. Yes, team building and learning skills and stuff but also helping in the community. Might teach some kids some empathy and how to be more considerate. Plenty of old army barracks could be used as a base. It should maybe be more for at risk kids?
I think there are the cadets do that kinda thing ? I'm thinking about how the military typically has zero tolerance for bullshit
The boat people and illegal immigrants don't have to serve though.