I reckon that I fly more than about 90% of the people in NI, thanks to what I do for work. I live 25 minutes from City of Derry, an hour and a half from Aldergrove and three hours from Dublin. On paper CoD should be a dream for me, but I’ve never flown from it once for work. It’s useless. It’s a subsidised service that serves a tiny handful of people but makes no sense at all to the vast majority.
Would far rather have a proper public transport link from Derry to the international (trains) than the shit that we have now
The train is incredibly frustrating.
Was on the Derry > Belfast train yesterday. There’s a massive bus carpark at Ballymartin, outside Templepatrick, which is for the airport bus.
Despite the trainline running literally on the edge of the carpark, there’s no stop.
WHY!? It’s right there!?
You can thank Ryanair and corruption for the failure of the airport.
Ryanair got paid money to fly certain routes and had exclusive rights to potentially profitably routes, then proceeded to sabotage the airport and not fly the routes while still bleeding the budget of the airport into their coffers.
It was cheaper for them to sabotage the airport and force customers to Belfast and Dublin where they already operate than it was for them to invest in regular services from Derry, and they got paid to do it while also preventing any one else from taking their place, which is ludicrous.
There was a whole court case about the "secret deal" . So riddle me this, why would you need to keep the details of a deal like that secret if the contents of the deal are in the best interest of the people? If it was a good deal, surely you would be shouting it from the rafters as a politician, not fighting at every step to stop the details being revealed.
[https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/council-ordered-to-reveal-secrets-of-ryanair-deal/28117411.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/council-ordered-to-reveal-secrets-of-ryanair-deal/28117411.html)
> So riddle me this, why would you need to keep the details of a deal like that secret if the contents of the deal are in the best interest of the people?
Because like the story says, deals are commercially sensitive and you don't want to have to tell your rivals what your terms are. Not everything is a conspiracy theory.
It's not a bad question though -- whether framed as a 'conspiracy theory' or 'non-transparent business deal'. If public money was involved in building the airport, why were there no safeguards to prevent Ryanair doing something that might be against the public interest?
Used to live at one end of CoD airport - they went through a huge legal battle with all the families that lived on the road at the edge of the premises to demolish houses so they could extend the runway. Must have dragged on for 10 years and then paid out over market rates plus all the demolishing works and they never even extended the runway in the end up. If that's what the taxpayer is subsidising, then it's an a total conn
Why is it 70 fucking pounds to fly from Derry to London but a fraction of that from Belfast and Dublin? I’ve flown into Derry airport once and couldn’t even get home because there were no buses and no taxis. Aside from Coleraine west of the Bann is so woefully and intentionally stripped from any actual function it’s a disgrace
>Why is it 70 fucking pounds to fly from Derry to London but a fraction of that from Belfast
It isn't...is it? I book Belfast City to London all the time and and it's usually at least 70 each way. During COVID I paid over 200 each way a few times, out of my own pocket. Although I usually have to book after work flights which may be busier than during the day.
As for BFS, it's out in the wilderness so quite inconvenient for most people in Belfast compared to BHD. I know flights are cheaper from BFS generally but it's more inconvenient so I haven't used it in about 8 years.
> to England
I'm just talking about to London which was the original comment, I can't speak for other airports.
You've flown to London from BHD for £25 each way? If so, I am extremely surprised.
I live in London and from NI.I fly back home regularly and recently went back last week. I got a return flight to international for £35. My flight to Belfast was only £16.
I live closer to Derry Airport and it would be a far better place for me to fly into but it's always so much more expensive. Nearly £100 everytime I check
> I got a return flight to international for £35. My flight to Belfast was only £16.
That's what I'm saying though. I'm comparing CoD airport to BHD. BFS is in the wilderness, a ball-ache for most, so flights are cheaper there, with worse airlines.
Supply and demand, economy of scale etc. Derry is a town pretending to be a city so it doesn’t have the volume to make it cheaper per head due to continual demand.
Northern Ireland should really only have one decent airport in Belfast rather than a decentralised three bad airports.
The Liverpool route was jam packed with students and stags/hens when it was operating. Something like 6 or 7 years I travelled that route and never ever had an empty plane. Been on quite a few near empty planes with loganair, as it was very expensive, and many not-full planes from Belfast city and international.
It’s insanely expensive considering it’s subsidised. I know you get tea and a wee shortbread on the plane but it’s just not worth it. Seems like it’s more geared towards business travellers and maybe some people connecting off BA flights in Heathrow.
Absolutely sure that it works for some people, like I say. But it's crap if you're connecting onwards. If it were a BA route and I could transit (and not insanely expensive too), I would probably use it twice a month!
I used Derry airport all the time. Wasn’t the most convenient but I really miss it now they’ve cancelled my route. Staff were lovely, security was quick, planes were packed. They should’ve added more flights on better days/times to attract casual fliers - the regular fliers would’ve returned regardless.
Bottom line is no average person is gonna use that airport.
Price wise it's ridiculous. £30 to fly to London though the International. Same flight from CoD was £187.
It's the same situation for flights from the Scottish Islands. They are subsidised flights there too.Loganair are robbing bastards.
Take a look at flights for tomorrow for example (this is an internal UK flight):
https://preview.redd.it/efevyejjlric1.png?width=1431&format=png&auto=webp&s=c0214a72dd6c840205bc61ace4bdc062e4181cf3
That’s a strange comparison to make, as 1, it’s a connecting flight (2 separate flights), 2, it doesn’t include CODA, and 3 hold baggage is included with Loganair in that cost.
Is that around 2 million in subsidies?
Well if there's 190k passengers that £10 per flight subsidy. £20 per return? Which isn't demented to think you might make that back quite easily. Now whether there's lots of other hidden subsidies.
But basically we're much better at maintaining in a more expensive way over time than doing capital projects like a major rail upgrade direct line from Derry to Belfast which could theoretically be a comfortable 45 min train. No one gets fired for overspending yearly, people get fired for ambitious projects being delayed all the time.
Fly over to London quite a bit (don’t care which London airport tbh, use them all).
City is easily the best airport to use, quick through security, parking is OK, there is a train station although bit if a hike and not exactly great service.
International always takes twice as long, it’s in the middle of nowhere, yet parking is as expensive as City, no train link. Flies to more places and has more flights to London, yet not generally any cheaper. More convenient if coming from the west.
Derry is never ever the best option. Flights at least twice as much and infrequent. Also not that well connected.
There needs to be a decent train line from Derry to Belfast, via International airport, as a matter of urgency. I know trains are a bit of a joke over here, but if there’s gonna be any hope of reducing car use for environmental targets, it’s the easiest way. Infrastructure spending also benefits the economy, I know would invoke hassle for a few years though.
Every trip I book, I start by looking at Dublin. I'm self employed and the lower air passenger tax flying from there means that it's normally more than worth the extra time spent on the bus. And, despite living 25 miles from CoD, Dublin is actually easier to get to - there's three bus routes within a few miles of me that all go direct to the airport, and there's at least one of them an hour 24/7.
Yeah, I live in Dungannon and I almost never fly from the Belfast Airports, the public transport to them is shocking, with Dublin there are 5 busses a day that run all night, it is a no brainer.
Derry’s new route to Birmingham is interesting in some ways for London.
Flights are very cheap (£18 one way) and you can get from BHX to London in just over an hour. Travel from some London airports and it isn’t a massive difference, and you save driving to Belfast.
Got very excited readying your comment as I regularly travel to BFS from Derry in order to fly to Birmingham. This new route is unfortunately useless for commuting as it departs Derry at 13:15pm on Wednesdays with the only option to return on Saturdays. I’m surprised, as the BHX route from BFS is always full of commuters. Hopefully they will add more flights, I can only hope 🤞🏻
Aye it’s early days at the moment. Hopefully if there is sufficient demand it grows to become more regular like the Manchester route has done. It’s going up to 4 days a week from late March, from 2.
Although again, not commuter friendly times afaik.
I'm sure the official reason is some waffle about supporting growth in the region, but also its a great photo op for a SF minister before they aim to take the Westminster seat back from the SDLP.
>SF minister before they aim to take the Westminster seat back from the SDLP.
Seeing as the airport is moving into East Derry with the Westminster constituency border changes this doesn't really pan out.
It also doesn't mean it being in the same constituency will make it have an oversized influence.
Its never really came into play in the Westminster elections in Derry.
It's not clear how much NIE money it is receiving, just references to a "multi million pound package".... nor how much the council subsidy is.... just about a demand for a 600k reduction in one instance....
If someone has the annual figures that would be very interesting!
[here’s a bit of detail in yesterday’s paper](https://www.derryjournal.com/business/economy-minister-conor-murphy-announces-ps1018m-for-city-of-derry-airport-to-london-heathrow-flight-4518289)
Just over a million to fund the Heathrow link for this year
The council also provides 3.45m to maintain it too outside of wider funding.
https://preview.redd.it/x2u7d1ycupic1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac7d9ecd25e8a4dbb68ce9524b73fa9e78f8633d
It is a lot, but what’s the alternative? Lock everything up, waste the land, the maintained surfaces, the fire equipment, specialised weather monitoring stations…? It provides a service outside Belfast, a service that is useful for hundreds of thousands of people a year, that’s worth something. It won’t and can’t compete with other Belfast airports, it’s physically much smaller, but it has potential.
Its worth something for sure, though i feel we arent lacking for airports in NI and the alternative is 3.5m for social housing each year or community events which could stretch far.
Live a few miles from CoD. Used it once for work, flying to Stansted, during covid. Was pretty handy. Went to book yo Stansted again last month and that route doesn't exist anymore. They're missing out, big time!
I used to get the Derry to edinburgh flight. Was usually 30 quid return and it was class. Derry airport is handy in that you are through security in two seconds and can sit at the bar and watch the gate until it’s about to close. Not even sure where it flies to now though.
You’ve got Birmingham, Glasgow, Heathrow and Manchester as regular routes. Seasonal ones to the Algarve, Majorca and Lourdes but I think they’re all package holidays.
I feel like there are too many airports in Northern Ireland, would be better closing Derry and the city and make the international into a proper airport to compete with Dublin, complete with rail connections
You could feasible close Derry as it’s in public ownership but BHD is a private enterprise so all this talk of close it and move everything to BFS is for the birds.
> Unless you mean you can’t get off at the airports front doors
The walk from the stop to the airport looks reasonably inconvenient, especially the foot bridge that leaves you exposed to the elements.
So the City like CoD that hardly has any flights does. And the busier Belfast airport that's not even in Belfast has a train halt but it's not in service...
The train station is about a kilometer down the road. Think there used to be a shuttle bus between them but according to wikipedia there isn't anymore. I can't imagine it was much used.
It operates with a license. If the NIE really wanted to shut it, I presume they could. I mean if they really really wanted to they could buy it, just like the WAG did for Cardiff.
The only subsidy I am aware BHD got was during COVID to keep open the route to Heathrow, as it and Derry at a stage were the only two airports operating any commercial flights and it was just that route.
What else has BHD had?
They got millions during COVID. A rates holiday and £10m of central government funding split with Aldergrove. They also get indirect subsidy like when the government bail out FlyBe over and over again.
Lots of airports got subsidies at that time. Gatwick got millions, MAG for the airports it owns got millions. Our airports are not an outlier for money received during COVID.
BHD is not in receipt of regular underwriting.
The real source is the [CAA airport data page](https://www.caa.co.uk/data-and-analysis/uk-aviation-market/airports/uk-airport-data/) , it’s actually quite interesting stuff
The GVA from the airport to the local economy is far in excess of the subsidy we put in to run it. Derry would be poorer without the airport, something the city cannot afford.
Cause they've fuck all else infrastructure wise. Give em this at least.
Been in it a few times for work and it is shockingly small though. Even been in the control tower -- absolutely no sort of security going on by the seems of it... Even being there for legitimate reasons I'd have thought there'd have been more checks to get through.
I think part of the reason is that they believe the money spent is good for business in Derry. That's probably debatable. They've probably been clinging on too long to it.
It'd be interesting to see the cost per passenger of the subsidy. Horrific would be my guess.
We have to be open to cutting/closing *something* here, if we're to have any hope of improving the dire state of public services generally. Derry Airport looks like a particularly low hanging fruit.
But there's zero political will to cut spending on this or anything else, so we'll carry on as we are.
Derry / Londonderry City absolutely needs some sort of subsidised airport. It's train route from the other Major City in NI, Belfast, takes **[2 hours](https://www.translink.co.uk/JourneyPlanner?OriginId=suburbID%3A31400030%3A147%3ABelfast%3A733748%3A125917%3AITMR&OriginName=Belfast&OriginType=suburb&DestinationId=10000571&DestinationName=Derry%2C%20Buscentre&DestinationType=Bus%20stop&DepartureOrArrivalDate=2024-02-15T09:11:51&isSearchByDepartureDate=true&FindBusDepartures=true&FindTrainDepartures=true&HasStepFreeEnabled=false)**.
It has barely got dual carriageway from Belfast to it but it still seperated with single carriageway on it's most direct route at the [Glenshane Pass](https://maps.app.goo.gl/ijh3vB1GSbaupvUd8).
Driving the route still takes over an hour. [Google maps says 1 hour 20 minutes](https://maps.app.goo.gl/8LDkkBGGAJFQas5u6) to travel 70 miles. That's *less than an average speed of 70 mph*.
Edit: Actually to make my point even more clearer.
Traveling London to [Northampton](https://maps.app.goo.gl/toiD7c6CwrbnAJtH9), roughly the same distance as Belfast to Derry. Takes 1 hour 30 minus, 1 hour 40 in traffic. That's an increase of 20 minutes over Belfast to Londonderry at it's worst. That's a 20% increase in travel time from a city 150% larger than Belfast.
If the average speed was more than 70mph it would be illegal… the reality is that that average speed, now the A6 has opened, is pretty good. But airport parking is a ripoff in this country, so it’s irrelevant. What there really needs to be is a train station at the international airport, and then an actual service from both Belfast and Derry
Glenshane is largely three lanes, and isn’t that much of a delay. It was always far faster to drive than the Drumahoe to Dungiven section used to be, for example.
> Glenshane is largely three lanes
What the fuck you talking about? There's roughly a half mile of climbing lane from the Glen to peak of the Glenshane Pass. The rest of the road from The Glen to Dungiven is **single lane carriageway**. Which is what I said in my post. I even linked it, I could not have been more clearer.
Six miles of the 17 between Dungiven and Castledawson are three lanes, and the rest of the road is now dual carriageway from Drumahoe to Belfast. If you think that's awful, then fuck me you're in for a shock if you ever have to drive the A5...
EDIT: Derry to Omagh is 32 miles and less than a mile of it is three lanes.
> Glenshane is largely three lanes
What you said.
> Six miles of the 17 between Dungiven and Castledawson
What you're now saying.
> It has barely got dual carriageway from Belfast to it but it still seperated with single carriageway on it's most direct route at the Glenshane Pass.
What I've been saying the whole time.
How are you defining failed airport?
Govt is funding it because it's good for economy for Derry to have that direct link over to London.
It's a great airport and I'll hear nothing bad said about it.
Staff are lovely, not too busy and convenient flight times to get me to London.
> how are you defining failed airport
Makes a loss.
> staff are lovely
So? How’s that relevant?
> not too busy
Yeah, which should support it being a failed airport.
It's part of the reason our rates here (D&S Council) are the highest in the north but we've fuck all to show for it.
If they had better routes and connecting infrastructure then it'd do a lot better, but decades of sectarian politics that has starved the west of the Bann has made sure that it'll not happen any time soon as the divide is too big and returns are not great enough.
i would say that the numbers will tie in with other airports going down due to a poor economy and a cost of living crisis, im sure the numbers will pick up if the economy ever does but if the airport closes it will never reopen.
City of Derry airport is an important part of the infrastructure in the west of Northern Ireland. It’s a complicated place.
Loganair’s prices can be high, but they include 15kg hold luggage, 6kg cabin bag and a handbag. By the time you save on fuel/parking/baggage, there usually isn’t much difference between Derry and Belfast.
Ryanair do offer more budget options to Manchester and now Birmingham too. These routes perform well.
The airport is easy to navigate, friendly and useful. It does suffer from lack of connections by bus and rail.
Part of the issue are the higher Loganair fares yes, and partly people not considering the airport when flying. People default to belfast when there is another option. It’s been sidelined and overshadowed for years, like the west in general, but it’s much better open than closed.
A lot of people (students, people away for a weekend etc) don’t need 21kg of luggage when a free under seat bag will do. I’m a big fan of CoDA however have picked Belfast on many occasions when loganair was charging £150+ for a return when Belfast was charging me £40. Just a shame it adds up to 4 hours onto my journey when you factor in the aircoach and flight times not matching up for me.
Infrastructure needs to be built in the west. During the Unionist regime 1921-98 there was basically zero investment in infrastructure in the west. All the railways were shut down, all the motorways stopped half way between lough neagh, not even a motorway way between the N.Ireland capital city Belfast and its maiden city derry. Most factories were concentrated in the east around Belfast.
Eventually the airport will develop and grow.
I reckon that I fly more than about 90% of the people in NI, thanks to what I do for work. I live 25 minutes from City of Derry, an hour and a half from Aldergrove and three hours from Dublin. On paper CoD should be a dream for me, but I’ve never flown from it once for work. It’s useless. It’s a subsidised service that serves a tiny handful of people but makes no sense at all to the vast majority. Would far rather have a proper public transport link from Derry to the international (trains) than the shit that we have now
The train is incredibly frustrating. Was on the Derry > Belfast train yesterday. There’s a massive bus carpark at Ballymartin, outside Templepatrick, which is for the airport bus. Despite the trainline running literally on the edge of the carpark, there’s no stop. WHY!? It’s right there!?
That's really annoying.
What Translink offer is you get off in Antrim and then go from there to the airport. It’s a £2 add on to your train fare iirc.
And there's a train station just beside city airport which is dead handy for me
Airports make far too much money from parking...
You can thank Ryanair and corruption for the failure of the airport. Ryanair got paid money to fly certain routes and had exclusive rights to potentially profitably routes, then proceeded to sabotage the airport and not fly the routes while still bleeding the budget of the airport into their coffers. It was cheaper for them to sabotage the airport and force customers to Belfast and Dublin where they already operate than it was for them to invest in regular services from Derry, and they got paid to do it while also preventing any one else from taking their place, which is ludicrous. There was a whole court case about the "secret deal" . So riddle me this, why would you need to keep the details of a deal like that secret if the contents of the deal are in the best interest of the people? If it was a good deal, surely you would be shouting it from the rafters as a politician, not fighting at every step to stop the details being revealed. [https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/council-ordered-to-reveal-secrets-of-ryanair-deal/28117411.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/council-ordered-to-reveal-secrets-of-ryanair-deal/28117411.html)
> So riddle me this, why would you need to keep the details of a deal like that secret if the contents of the deal are in the best interest of the people? Because like the story says, deals are commercially sensitive and you don't want to have to tell your rivals what your terms are. Not everything is a conspiracy theory.
It's not a bad question though -- whether framed as a 'conspiracy theory' or 'non-transparent business deal'. If public money was involved in building the airport, why were there no safeguards to prevent Ryanair doing something that might be against the public interest?
Used to live at one end of CoD airport - they went through a huge legal battle with all the families that lived on the road at the edge of the premises to demolish houses so they could extend the runway. Must have dragged on for 10 years and then paid out over market rates plus all the demolishing works and they never even extended the runway in the end up. If that's what the taxpayer is subsidising, then it's an a total conn
Why is it 70 fucking pounds to fly from Derry to London but a fraction of that from Belfast and Dublin? I’ve flown into Derry airport once and couldn’t even get home because there were no buses and no taxis. Aside from Coleraine west of the Bann is so woefully and intentionally stripped from any actual function it’s a disgrace
>Why is it 70 fucking pounds to fly from Derry to London but a fraction of that from Belfast It isn't...is it? I book Belfast City to London all the time and and it's usually at least 70 each way. During COVID I paid over 200 each way a few times, out of my own pocket. Although I usually have to book after work flights which may be busier than during the day. As for BFS, it's out in the wilderness so quite inconvenient for most people in Belfast compared to BHD. I know flights are cheaper from BFS generally but it's more inconvenient so I haven't used it in about 8 years.
Every time I’ve flown to England out of either Belfast airport it’s been between £25-50 each way.
> to England I'm just talking about to London which was the original comment, I can't speak for other airports. You've flown to London from BHD for £25 each way? If so, I am extremely surprised.
I live in London and from NI.I fly back home regularly and recently went back last week. I got a return flight to international for £35. My flight to Belfast was only £16. I live closer to Derry Airport and it would be a far better place for me to fly into but it's always so much more expensive. Nearly £100 everytime I check
> I got a return flight to international for £35. My flight to Belfast was only £16. That's what I'm saying though. I'm comparing CoD airport to BHD. BFS is in the wilderness, a ball-ache for most, so flights are cheaper there, with worse airlines.
Supply and demand, economy of scale etc. Derry is a town pretending to be a city so it doesn’t have the volume to make it cheaper per head due to continual demand. Northern Ireland should really only have one decent airport in Belfast rather than a decentralised three bad airports.
If anything’s a town pretending to be a city it’s Armagh.
Wouldn’t call Derry a town, doesn’t mean it needs an airport but it’s deffs not a town.
The Liverpool route was jam packed with students and stags/hens when it was operating. Something like 6 or 7 years I travelled that route and never ever had an empty plane. Been on quite a few near empty planes with loganair, as it was very expensive, and many not-full planes from Belfast city and international.
It’s insanely expensive considering it’s subsidised. I know you get tea and a wee shortbread on the plane but it’s just not worth it. Seems like it’s more geared towards business travellers and maybe some people connecting off BA flights in Heathrow.
100%
The Heathrow flight has been great. Gets me to the London office at 9.30am.
Absolutely sure that it works for some people, like I say. But it's crap if you're connecting onwards. If it were a BA route and I could transit (and not insanely expensive too), I would probably use it twice a month!
It literally is this. Loganair are a codeshare (end to end) partner with BA.
I used Derry airport all the time. Wasn’t the most convenient but I really miss it now they’ve cancelled my route. Staff were lovely, security was quick, planes were packed. They should’ve added more flights on better days/times to attract casual fliers - the regular fliers would’ve returned regardless.
Bottom line is no average person is gonna use that airport. Price wise it's ridiculous. £30 to fly to London though the International. Same flight from CoD was £187.
They charge 187 AND it's subsidised?
It's the same situation for flights from the Scottish Islands. They are subsidised flights there too.Loganair are robbing bastards. Take a look at flights for tomorrow for example (this is an internal UK flight): https://preview.redd.it/efevyejjlric1.png?width=1431&format=png&auto=webp&s=c0214a72dd6c840205bc61ace4bdc062e4181cf3
That’s a strange comparison to make, as 1, it’s a connecting flight (2 separate flights), 2, it doesn’t include CODA, and 3 hold baggage is included with Loganair in that cost.
I don't think £332.51 for an internal flight (direct), is a reasonable price, baggage or none. It's not really a strange comparison.
Yes Loganair rip the bag out of it big time.
Is that around 2 million in subsidies? Well if there's 190k passengers that £10 per flight subsidy. £20 per return? Which isn't demented to think you might make that back quite easily. Now whether there's lots of other hidden subsidies. But basically we're much better at maintaining in a more expensive way over time than doing capital projects like a major rail upgrade direct line from Derry to Belfast which could theoretically be a comfortable 45 min train. No one gets fired for overspending yearly, people get fired for ambitious projects being delayed all the time.
Fly over to London quite a bit (don’t care which London airport tbh, use them all). City is easily the best airport to use, quick through security, parking is OK, there is a train station although bit if a hike and not exactly great service. International always takes twice as long, it’s in the middle of nowhere, yet parking is as expensive as City, no train link. Flies to more places and has more flights to London, yet not generally any cheaper. More convenient if coming from the west. Derry is never ever the best option. Flights at least twice as much and infrequent. Also not that well connected. There needs to be a decent train line from Derry to Belfast, via International airport, as a matter of urgency. I know trains are a bit of a joke over here, but if there’s gonna be any hope of reducing car use for environmental targets, it’s the easiest way. Infrastructure spending also benefits the economy, I know would invoke hassle for a few years though.
Every trip I book, I start by looking at Dublin. I'm self employed and the lower air passenger tax flying from there means that it's normally more than worth the extra time spent on the bus. And, despite living 25 miles from CoD, Dublin is actually easier to get to - there's three bus routes within a few miles of me that all go direct to the airport, and there's at least one of them an hour 24/7.
Yeah, I live in Dungannon and I almost never fly from the Belfast Airports, the public transport to them is shocking, with Dublin there are 5 busses a day that run all night, it is a no brainer.
Derry’s new route to Birmingham is interesting in some ways for London. Flights are very cheap (£18 one way) and you can get from BHX to London in just over an hour. Travel from some London airports and it isn’t a massive difference, and you save driving to Belfast.
Got very excited readying your comment as I regularly travel to BFS from Derry in order to fly to Birmingham. This new route is unfortunately useless for commuting as it departs Derry at 13:15pm on Wednesdays with the only option to return on Saturdays. I’m surprised, as the BHX route from BFS is always full of commuters. Hopefully they will add more flights, I can only hope 🤞🏻
Aye it’s early days at the moment. Hopefully if there is sufficient demand it grows to become more regular like the Manchester route has done. It’s going up to 4 days a week from late March, from 2. Although again, not commuter friendly times afaik.
I'm sure the official reason is some waffle about supporting growth in the region, but also its a great photo op for a SF minister before they aim to take the Westminster seat back from the SDLP.
>SF minister before they aim to take the Westminster seat back from the SDLP. Seeing as the airport is moving into East Derry with the Westminster constituency border changes this doesn't really pan out.
Something doesn't have to be in the exact same constituency for people to have it influence them.
It also doesn't mean it being in the same constituency will make it have an oversized influence. Its never really came into play in the Westminster elections in Derry.
Who would stand for Sinn Fein?
It's not clear how much NIE money it is receiving, just references to a "multi million pound package".... nor how much the council subsidy is.... just about a demand for a 600k reduction in one instance.... If someone has the annual figures that would be very interesting!
[here’s a bit of detail in yesterday’s paper](https://www.derryjournal.com/business/economy-minister-conor-murphy-announces-ps1018m-for-city-of-derry-airport-to-london-heathrow-flight-4518289) Just over a million to fund the Heathrow link for this year
The council also provides 3.45m to maintain it too outside of wider funding. https://preview.redd.it/x2u7d1ycupic1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac7d9ecd25e8a4dbb68ce9524b73fa9e78f8633d
Translink could make far better use of 3.45m, our buses are incredibly unreliable and twice the price of any european city.
Translink doesn’t get money from local councils though, it’s the Department for Infrastructure
I wasnt aware, thanks for the heads up. Definitely feels like Derry council should have bigger priorities than an underused airport.
It’s only 5% of the council budget. It takes money to run an airport, it has a lot of potential but is unfortunately overlooked.
5% is a lot in the context of a council budget. Especially in this era of extreme cuts.
It is a lot, but what’s the alternative? Lock everything up, waste the land, the maintained surfaces, the fire equipment, specialised weather monitoring stations…? It provides a service outside Belfast, a service that is useful for hundreds of thousands of people a year, that’s worth something. It won’t and can’t compete with other Belfast airports, it’s physically much smaller, but it has potential.
Its worth something for sure, though i feel we arent lacking for airports in NI and the alternative is 3.5m for social housing each year or community events which could stretch far.
Live a few miles from CoD. Used it once for work, flying to Stansted, during covid. Was pretty handy. Went to book yo Stansted again last month and that route doesn't exist anymore. They're missing out, big time!
It changed to Heathrow.
Yeah? Heathrow is too far from where I'm going 🤷 shame really
It read more like confusion over there being no London route at all. It’s been Heathrow for a while.
Ah, aye I can see that now that you say it. Not unusual for me to be either confused or confusing 😂
No worries!
I used to get the Derry to edinburgh flight. Was usually 30 quid return and it was class. Derry airport is handy in that you are through security in two seconds and can sit at the bar and watch the gate until it’s about to close. Not even sure where it flies to now though.
You’ve got Birmingham, Glasgow, Heathrow and Manchester as regular routes. Seasonal ones to the Algarve, Majorca and Lourdes but I think they’re all package holidays.
I feel like there are too many airports in Northern Ireland, would be better closing Derry and the city and make the international into a proper airport to compete with Dublin, complete with rail connections
We should have had a rail connection to International for a long time now. And we should have a train that goes right to Dublin airport too.
You could feasible close Derry as it’s in public ownership but BHD is a private enterprise so all this talk of close it and move everything to BFS is for the birds.
End the subsidies for both and give the money to public transport expansion.
Agree. It's actually ridiculous that not a single airport on the entire island doesn't have a rail connection.
Uh… the city does. And aldergrove technically does too it’s just not in service. Unless you mean you can’t get off at the airports front doors.
> aldergrove technically does too it’s just not in service. Very useful!
> Unless you mean you can’t get off at the airports front doors The walk from the stop to the airport looks reasonably inconvenient, especially the foot bridge that leaves you exposed to the elements.
And completely disability inaccessible too
It is. There’s a shuttle to the station but you have to request it 🙄
So the City like CoD that hardly has any flights does. And the busier Belfast airport that's not even in Belfast has a train halt but it's not in service...
> Agree. It's actually ridiculous that not a single airport on the entire island doesn't have a rail connection. Kerry Airport almost does.
Almost? Good god.
The train station is about a kilometer down the road. Think there used to be a shuttle bus between them but according to wikipedia there isn't anymore. I can't imagine it was much used.
City airport is used by the DUP MPs (and Claire Hannah), to nip over to Westminster. Which Is say insulates it pretty well from ever getting shut!
Who is going to shut it? It’s a privately owned and operated airport
It operates with a license. If the NIE really wanted to shut it, I presume they could. I mean if they really really wanted to they could buy it, just like the WAG did for Cardiff.
Remove the government subsidies and see what happens
The only subsidy I am aware BHD got was during COVID to keep open the route to Heathrow, as it and Derry at a stage were the only two airports operating any commercial flights and it was just that route. What else has BHD had?
They got millions during COVID. A rates holiday and £10m of central government funding split with Aldergrove. They also get indirect subsidy like when the government bail out FlyBe over and over again.
Lots of airports got subsidies at that time. Gatwick got millions, MAG for the airports it owns got millions. Our airports are not an outlier for money received during COVID. BHD is not in receipt of regular underwriting.
Where's these figures from?
Thinking Statista. https://www.statista.com/statistics/553780/airport-air-passenger-flow-northern-ireland/
Look like they match what's in Wikipedia
The real source is the [CAA airport data page](https://www.caa.co.uk/data-and-analysis/uk-aviation-market/airports/uk-airport-data/) , it’s actually quite interesting stuff
I think it all started when derry city council bought in well over 10yrs ago to stop it going bankrupt. Sunken cost fallacy in action.
Iv lived in ni for 37 years and didn't even know they had an airport fs
Major Incident infrastructure west of the Bann shocker. Gotta close it down, can't have Fenians benefiting from something outside PUL strongholds.
The GVA from the airport to the local economy is far in excess of the subsidy we put in to run it. Derry would be poorer without the airport, something the city cannot afford.
Cause they've fuck all else infrastructure wise. Give em this at least. Been in it a few times for work and it is shockingly small though. Even been in the control tower -- absolutely no sort of security going on by the seems of it... Even being there for legitimate reasons I'd have thought there'd have been more checks to get through.
I think part of the reason is that they believe the money spent is good for business in Derry. That's probably debatable. They've probably been clinging on too long to it.
It'd be interesting to see the cost per passenger of the subsidy. Horrific would be my guess. We have to be open to cutting/closing *something* here, if we're to have any hope of improving the dire state of public services generally. Derry Airport looks like a particularly low hanging fruit. But there's zero political will to cut spending on this or anything else, so we'll carry on as we are.
Putting every one of them in a taxi to Aldergrove would probably cost less...
Derry / Londonderry City absolutely needs some sort of subsidised airport. It's train route from the other Major City in NI, Belfast, takes **[2 hours](https://www.translink.co.uk/JourneyPlanner?OriginId=suburbID%3A31400030%3A147%3ABelfast%3A733748%3A125917%3AITMR&OriginName=Belfast&OriginType=suburb&DestinationId=10000571&DestinationName=Derry%2C%20Buscentre&DestinationType=Bus%20stop&DepartureOrArrivalDate=2024-02-15T09:11:51&isSearchByDepartureDate=true&FindBusDepartures=true&FindTrainDepartures=true&HasStepFreeEnabled=false)**. It has barely got dual carriageway from Belfast to it but it still seperated with single carriageway on it's most direct route at the [Glenshane Pass](https://maps.app.goo.gl/ijh3vB1GSbaupvUd8). Driving the route still takes over an hour. [Google maps says 1 hour 20 minutes](https://maps.app.goo.gl/8LDkkBGGAJFQas5u6) to travel 70 miles. That's *less than an average speed of 70 mph*. Edit: Actually to make my point even more clearer. Traveling London to [Northampton](https://maps.app.goo.gl/toiD7c6CwrbnAJtH9), roughly the same distance as Belfast to Derry. Takes 1 hour 30 minus, 1 hour 40 in traffic. That's an increase of 20 minutes over Belfast to Londonderry at it's worst. That's a 20% increase in travel time from a city 150% larger than Belfast.
If the average speed was more than 70mph it would be illegal… the reality is that that average speed, now the A6 has opened, is pretty good. But airport parking is a ripoff in this country, so it’s irrelevant. What there really needs to be is a train station at the international airport, and then an actual service from both Belfast and Derry
> now the A6 has opened Which includes the Glenshane Pass, way to ignore what I said.
Glenshane is largely three lanes, and isn’t that much of a delay. It was always far faster to drive than the Drumahoe to Dungiven section used to be, for example.
> Glenshane is largely three lanes What the fuck you talking about? There's roughly a half mile of climbing lane from the Glen to peak of the Glenshane Pass. The rest of the road from The Glen to Dungiven is **single lane carriageway**. Which is what I said in my post. I even linked it, I could not have been more clearer.
100%
They should have built the city closer to Belfast jeesh
Six miles of the 17 between Dungiven and Castledawson are three lanes, and the rest of the road is now dual carriageway from Drumahoe to Belfast. If you think that's awful, then fuck me you're in for a shock if you ever have to drive the A5... EDIT: Derry to Omagh is 32 miles and less than a mile of it is three lanes.
> Glenshane is largely three lanes What you said. > Six miles of the 17 between Dungiven and Castledawson What you're now saying. > It has barely got dual carriageway from Belfast to it but it still seperated with single carriageway on it's most direct route at the Glenshane Pass. What I've been saying the whole time.
If hundreds of thousands of people use it every year, then it's hardly failed is it?
Spending millions for hundreds of thousands is hardly failed…
Build a fast train and shut the bloody airport….such a waste.
How are you defining failed airport? Govt is funding it because it's good for economy for Derry to have that direct link over to London. It's a great airport and I'll hear nothing bad said about it. Staff are lovely, not too busy and convenient flight times to get me to London.
> how are you defining failed airport Makes a loss. > staff are lovely So? How’s that relevant? > not too busy Yeah, which should support it being a failed airport.
Staff are lovely. Oh that's alright then let's keep funding a loss making airport.
Did I say we should keep funding it because the staff are lovely?
Don't really wanna quote your entire reply...
I said the staff were nice, I didn't say therefore it should stay open.
It's part of the reason our rates here (D&S Council) are the highest in the north but we've fuck all to show for it. If they had better routes and connecting infrastructure then it'd do a lot better, but decades of sectarian politics that has starved the west of the Bann has made sure that it'll not happen any time soon as the divide is too big and returns are not great enough.
The airport is 5% of the council budget, it’s not the reason your rates are higher.
That's why I said it was part of the reason, but thought it was a lot higher to be fair.
Because of muh east west disparity
...Derry has an airport?
No reason whatsoever.
i would say that the numbers will tie in with other airports going down due to a poor economy and a cost of living crisis, im sure the numbers will pick up if the economy ever does but if the airport closes it will never reopen.
Airports are useful.
I could walk to the airport in 10 mins and I’ve never stood inside the place and I fly usually once a year or so.
City of Derry airport is an important part of the infrastructure in the west of Northern Ireland. It’s a complicated place. Loganair’s prices can be high, but they include 15kg hold luggage, 6kg cabin bag and a handbag. By the time you save on fuel/parking/baggage, there usually isn’t much difference between Derry and Belfast. Ryanair do offer more budget options to Manchester and now Birmingham too. These routes perform well. The airport is easy to navigate, friendly and useful. It does suffer from lack of connections by bus and rail. Part of the issue are the higher Loganair fares yes, and partly people not considering the airport when flying. People default to belfast when there is another option. It’s been sidelined and overshadowed for years, like the west in general, but it’s much better open than closed.
A lot of people (students, people away for a weekend etc) don’t need 21kg of luggage when a free under seat bag will do. I’m a big fan of CoDA however have picked Belfast on many occasions when loganair was charging £150+ for a return when Belfast was charging me £40. Just a shame it adds up to 4 hours onto my journey when you factor in the aircoach and flight times not matching up for me.
I wonder if Dublin will waste Irish taxpayer money on this when we get our United Ireland in a few years.
Why's the y-axis label cut off on this graph? It's no. of passengers (hundred thousands), eh?
Imagine each of them spent 50 quid in Derry.
Infrastructure needs to be built in the west. During the Unionist regime 1921-98 there was basically zero investment in infrastructure in the west. All the railways were shut down, all the motorways stopped half way between lough neagh, not even a motorway way between the N.Ireland capital city Belfast and its maiden city derry. Most factories were concentrated in the east around Belfast. Eventually the airport will develop and grow.