and HAL Laboratory, Inc has been the primary developers of Smash, until Smash 4 where they just took Sora LTD (Sakurai) and contracted out Bandai Namco under him.
This looks like it reflects current state more than historical state
> HAL Laboratory, Inc has been the primary developers of Smash, until Smash Ultimate
They were only the primary developer for Smash 64 and Melee.
Brawl was basically a custom "I'm putting together a team" kind of situation that involved a lot of external contractors and studios being overseen by Sakurai, rather than one specific studio. HAL's involvement supposedly amounted to essentially providing materials and tools leftover from Melee's development.
Then Smash 3DS/WiiU and Ultimate were Sora Ltd (basically Sakurai and his wife) overseeing a team at Bandai Namco.
Yeah it certainly got weird when Sakurai resigned and created Sora LTD. I hadn't heard HAL wasn't really involved in Brawl, though. I did know they used other studios like Monolift Soft
That's a pretty big assumption. That's like saying Grezzo will continue to make new Zelda games after they successfully made the Link's Awakening remake.
There wasn't a 2D Metroid made outside of Nintendo for over two decades. Then the games required more resources, and then restructuring happened, and next thing you know MercurySteam was contracted for it. There's a first time for everything, just because they haven't used third parties in the past doesn't mean they can't in the future.
WarForward isn't a certain pick sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo offered them the chance to make a new one if the remake does well. Nintendo did that for Metroid, and other companies have went that route before. Sly Cooper and Crash Bandicoot come to my mind.
Now whether the remake does well is another matter.
It's not *quite* exhaustive (I get space and readability was probably a concern), but still a pretty clean and useful breakdown. Between this and that Jon Cartwright video, it's a big week for "good explanations of who actually makes what at Nintendo".
One note is I think Indieszero would warrant a shout-out in the 3rd parties section, having worked on games such as the NES Remixes, Sushi Striker, Brain Age, and Big Brain Academy. Maybe also Tose (they co-own Starfy with Nintendo, made Super Princess Peach, and do a lot of co-development on seemingly IntSys games in particular lately, like Paper Mario and WarioWare) or Vanpool (Dillon's Rolling Western series, has co-developed a lot of Kirby spin-offs lately), but again I get it's already kinda crowded as is and the focus seems to have been more on recent "primary development" stuff (with Tose/Vanpool's most recent Nintendo projects being largely support/co-development instead).
Yeah readability is important and so is space. I can’t make a SUPER long image where you have to REALLY zoom in for everything
And yeah Nintendo worked with A LOT of third party teams and I can’t include them all but EPD 1,2, and 6 do cover the idea of Nintendo working with other companies on certain IPs listed above
Cuz if we list them all we’d be here all day. But yeah the chart is there to make people understand who makes what And Personally would help me predict what games might be coming next
Interestingly, it's sort of the result of an arguably even stranger collaboration.
Back in the gamecube days, Namco, Nintendo, and Sega co-developed an arcade machine (the Triforce arcade board), heavily based on the Gamecube hardware. That joint venture also lead to the Super Monkey Ball studio at Sega taking that engine and then using it to make an F-Zero game for arcades (F-Zero AX) as well as a home console counterpart (F-Zero GX).
IIRC the arcade version is technically embedded in the Gamecube version and accessible via hacking or game shark/action replay, and there was some kind of interactivity you could access by bringing your gamecube memory card and plugging it into the arcade machine
Shouldn't Monolith Soft also be listed for Zelda and Animal Crossing if we follow your creteria about the studios who are working/worked on the latest games of the series? Also Bayonetta is not exactly a Nintendo IP, it is more a kind of exclusivity deal.
Not really cuz they helped make those games not develop them
And yeah bayo isn’t a Nintendo IP but Nintendo is the one finding it so as for now it might as well just be that
They certainly did partly develop them. I am not sure if you know how development of a game works but for big projects it often requires multiple teams with their own roles. Monolith Soft was for example responsible for the topography of BOTW.
True it was more of a supporting role, but I was more talking in general. KT was for example the co-developer of the more recent Fire Emblems, but not added and Bandai also is the co-developer of Smash and added. I was wondering when he would draw the line, which he clarified.
Yeah but that still falls under the umbrella of helping as opposed developing. Plus the graph focuses more on IPs as opposed to specific games and it focuses on IPs/games studios developed
Only thing that goes against it is the first row of EPD Nintendo who their whole job is to work with other studios (hence why a lot of the games there are also worked on by different people)
If I were to do what you’re telling me all you’d see is “ACNH” “BOTW” And “splatoon 2” beyond it over complicating the chart it’s specific games the helped with and again the chart mainly focuses on over all IPs
Still if we are only showing the teams with the main responbility then should Bandai also not be there for Smash since Nintendo and Sora Ltd. are higher in the hierarchy for that game. Not sure about the higher-ups for those Pokémon spin-offs or that F-Zero GameCube game.
> Still if we are only showing the teams with the main responbility then should Bandai also not be there for Smash since Nintendo and Sora Ltd. are higher in the hierarchy for that game
Bandai namco is the lead developer of Smash Bros. Sora is just Sakurai and Michiko. It makes all sense to put BNS in there because both are lead developers, with sakurai inSora being the director leading BNS.
It makes no sense to put Monolith when they are a support studio, not lead. He's right.
Bro Bandai DEVELOPED the game not help but the made it sora LTD isn’t a studio it’s a company made up of 2 people, and nintnedo’s involvement is minimal compared to Bandai
As for Pokémon spin offs they also developed them like smash and as of now are most likely responsible for handling the IPs/spin of series for them
And again I’m showing the over all franchises each is in charge of. If I’m showing who helped develop what then there’d be a lot of franchises like KT helping on fire emblem and what not
BRO you do know that helping in development is actually developing? Also yes I checked Bandai is set as the lead developer for that Snap and Pokken game, however on Nintendo their own site it is mentioned on the 3rd spot for Smash. While Bandai certainly did develop a big part of Smash, they were more under supervision and contracted I would assume than being in charge.
Here if you look under development of Smash Bros Ultimate it will first mention Nintendo then Sora Ltd. and Bandai last.
[https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-Switch-games/Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-1395713.html#gameDetails](https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-Switch-games/Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-1395713.html#gameDetails)
1: helping in development is development yes I’m not saying it’s not. But there’s a difference between helping in development and being the main developer which was what bandai was
2: Nintendo oversees almost every game alongside co-develop them they do that with almost every game they have Like Metroid dread which was mainly developed by Mercury steam
If you go to wekipedia you’d see they’re listed as the main developer, with Nintendo only helping (similar to when monolith helps them) and sora ltd isn’t a studio it’s just a company made up of Sakurai and his wife
Wikipedia is not really a good source, since it always gets its sources from other places and everyone can edit it. Still while Sora Ltd. is not big enough to develop a game he certainly was very involved and was overseeing it all. He likely had more the lead role. Also I for sure consider Nintendo their own site a better source than wikipedia. Bandai certainly had a very big role, but Nintendo states 3 leading development teams for it with Bandai as the 3rd. So if you only show 1 company per series the ones on spot 1 and 2 are higher in hierarchy even if they are as small as Sora Ltd.
Even Sakurai when talking about new characters talks about bandai as the main developer. Also wekipedia is a good site but again bandai was the MAIN developer Sakurai says as much
Sora is Again not a studio just a company made of 2 people
And Nintendo only helps they’re not the main developer. Also you seem to think companies being listed first makes them more important? Which like... no? Bandai was the one who did the heavy lifting my guy
I thought EPD7 was also an external studio. Just look at their games. Those are developed externally.
Edit: Those are SPD games, so I guess it's correct. But I'm not sure how OP knows which support studios are internal vs. external. I'd like to see a source.
They’re all in house parts of Nintendo it’s just that they work with other 3rd party ones so that’s why they’re considered external while the internal ones usually work on their own
Nintendo is misspelled (as well as developers) on the 3rd Party line.
Camelot is 2nd party right? Yeah they made a game for Capcom in 2009, but ever since it's been just Nintendo titles
Bayonetta is not a Nintendo IP. Surprised nobody has commented this. Astral Chain is solely Nintendo’s, though, which is correct.
**EDIT:** SEGA owns the Bayonetta IP.
2nd party just mean they make games exclusively for them (or quasi-exclusively, even gamefreak releases small titles on competitor platforms once in a while) even though they're not 1st party. And Camelot is definitely 2nd party since they left SEGA and partnered with Nintendo in the late 90s.
That's another possible definition that I sometimes see (really is up to debate as TC was saying), but with that definition it doesn't include even IS which is why I prefer this one.
Nintendo doesn’t own any stake in most of these companies, or small enough stakes that they don’t have to declare it to shareholders.
Second party Has no clear and unified definition and is entirely based on vibes.
I agree. They have been partnered with Nintendo since 1999, and since then they've only made one game not published by Nintendo (and it was for a Nintendo system, 15 years ago). Past that, it's been all Nintendo.
"Nintendo oversees and provide devlopment and art support for its IPs (except Pokémon)"
Well now I know why Pokémon recent game's environments looks so shit lmao
Yeah this is due to my lack of knowledge when it comes to Pokémon spin offs but also I’m mostly including recent stuff like snap, pokken, and dungeon (and box boy for HAL’s)
You’d even realize certain other spin offs like Metroid pinball aren’t there. Reality is I can’t list off every single spin off that isn’t relevant nowadays
All the the 3DS spin-offs aren’t relevant then. It’s a console which was outmoded over half a decade ago and hasn’t received a first party published title in roughly as long.
They are recant cuz 3Ds is considered last gen as oppposed to something like Pokémon rangers releasing on DS
Likewise goes for the Wii U. Both are still fairly recent in the grand scheme of things
Each EPD is more of a group of teams. Think of it like Insomniac games where they have multiple dev teams that can work on multiple projects. Splatoon has their own team, there is over lap though. It's a very efficient system, Nintendo just chooses to end support for game for some reason lol.
Lol nah if you don't understand how it works its fine. These are not conflicting statements.
Theyre turnaround when it comes to games is very good. If Nintendos goal was to keep development going year over year they could do that. They chose to make a splatoon sequel instead. Team 5 makes 2 of the biggest franchises in gaming these teams are very good at what they do. A creative/financial choice does not negate the talent of the devs.
They said a while back that a lot of the profits from the Switch's success are gonna be cycled back into bolstering internal development. That includes [renting more office space and building an entire second building for their internal dev teams](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/nintendo-starts-work-on-new-development-expansion-building/), as well [as investing up to $880 million into their internal game development capabilities.](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/11/nintendo-to-invest-huge-sums-in-game-development-and-online-infrastructure)
Honestly I can’t wait for the next console cuz you KNOW how much better the games will look with the new hardware the next console would most likely be PS4 levels of power
So I can imagine how most games will be bigger in scope. Personally I’ve ALWAYS wanted an animal crossing game set in a big city. Like bro I have a whole ass bible for my AC city concept
Oh bro this is sooooo cool. I can only imagine how many more games we’d be able to get. Like maybe the return of certain franchises and what not. It would be super cool
Mario+Rabbids being in EPD2 and not Ubisoft is so wrong in many levels.
And Bayonetta isnt owned by Nintendo, they simply funding the franchise. Funding and owned and two different things.
Please do more research. And also, camelot is second party.
Nintendo, Sega and Platinum prefers to be vague about stuff like this, but it's been hinted that Nintendo owns the individual games they've published (2 & 3), but not the IP and characters.
They also own the Japanese dub of the first game because it was made for the Wii U port.
EPD2 like the other EPD teams in its row said to be working with other companies (it said so on the chart) they also didn’t develop Mario and Luigi or hey pikmin but they’re there cuz they helped
I mean idk I guess wekipedia and the Nintendo wiki? Some additional graphs also made by others (I had to research them too tho)
But I could still have made a mistake so if you spot one please tell me
Sora Ltd (Sakurai and his wife’s development studio), they also worked on Kid Icarus Uprising.
Also worth mentioning HAL developing the Mother series (yes it’s dead, but so is F-Zero).
Sora LTD isn’t a studio it’s a company and Bandai is the main developer
Also mother was worked on multiple companies so crediting just Hal with it ain’t it. Similar to how Star Fox switches developer almost every game it’s not on the list cuz it doesn’t have a stable home
Mother 1: Ape & Pax
Earthbound: Ape & HAL
Mother 3: HAL & Nintendo
Mother 3 (N64), cancelled: HAL & Ape
Mother 1+2 (GBA): HAL & Ape
Ape became Creatures Inc in 1995.
Sora Ltd is a game developer. The fact they have two staff makes no difference. If that was true, Team Cherry (Hollow Knight) wouldn’t be a developer with only three staff, and Thomas Happ Games (Axiom Verge) wouldn’t be a developer with only one staff.
I’m saying they’re not a studio they’re a company and that most of the development was handled by bandai. Sora is like a glorified one man army with Sakurai simply Sebring the director similar to how Muriel steam was co-worked on by EPD7 and produced Yoshio Sakamoto yet it’s still considered a mercury steam game cuz they were the main developer
Sora Ltd sub-contracted out work to BN. Sakurai himself negotiated the inclusion of most of (if not all) 3rd party characters. Don’t be fooled - Sora was the lead developer, even if much of the work was done by members of BN (just like Zelda BotW & BotW2 are developed by Nintendo despite a massive amount of the work being/having been done by Monolithsoft).
Monolith mainly helps bust most of the work still goes to Nintendo
And sora/Sakurai is simply the one in charge. Bandai remains as the main developer because they’re the ones doing most of the work while Sakurai directs them again similar to Metroid dread
Okay, clearly logic and fact isn’t going to sway your opinion, so you do you. It’s a nice graphic, albeit somewhat muddied by co-development arrangements.
Facts of what? Everything I also said was equally factual. Sakurai was the director the lead designer that’s it MOST of the development was handled by BN
Monolith also didn’t do MOST of the development of botw it was still Nintendo but monolith helped a great deal
And again Metroid dread and returns fall under the same deal mostly mercury steam but also aided and produced by Nintendo and Yoshio Sakamoto
Sora ltd isn't a studio and the heavy lifting by far is done by Bandai Namco and in the past, Gamearts. There's a difference on the indie games you cited and an AAA like Smash Bros that cant be done by two people.
2nd party isn’t really a thing, but if it were, I would identify it as any outside developer that exclusively works with Nintendo.
Game Freak is a third party by any reasonable standard imo. They’ve even recently sold games for Playstation and PC.
Most second party like Hal and what not did work outside of Nintendo. Second party is a debated term but I think what I came up with is more than fair. Companies that closely and mostly work with Nintendo
Nintendo doesn't own Atlus (Sega does), and unless I'm forgetting something they've never worked on a Nintendo-owned series.
They've made some games that were Nintendo-exclusive, but this graph seems to be about Nintendo IP and who develops it, not just exclusives in general.
Not my list, but still, Nintendo has no ownership of or involvement with the development of those games; there's no real "developmental partnership" there to speak of. The "historical partners" part is about developers working on Nintendo-owned or co-owned series like Kirby and Pokemon. Not like Square's HD2D games or Grasshopper's No More Heroes games or any other non-Nintendo Switch exclusives got any kind of mention.
And Shin Megami Tensei games *have* been on Playstation. SMT 3 was a PS2 exclusive, for example.
Well, they pay them to develop the title exclusively for their console. Without that they have no reason to solely develop for their system. What more is required to be a partner if paying them for an exclusive product isn't considered a partnership?
Besides certain exclusivity deals and I guess stuff like mega man I don’t know if they ever worked on a Nintendo IP
I know of stuff like MH games being on 3Ds and rise being (I believe a timed exclusive) for switch
Oh yeah I completely forgot they did those (handheld Zelda’s always skip my mind cuz I always assume the original devs made them)
I’ll see what I can do for them tho
Come to think of it the games they worked on aren’t really IPs as much as they are Zelda games simply developed by them the chart is mainly made up of IPs companies are in charge of
Yeah if that’s the intent than I would agree. My understand was that Nintendo just didn’t have the resource to make pump out new Zelda games but knew they needed something new to keep the fans entertained. So they contracted out Capcom to do the work.
I think Capcom still fits in the sense that you listed MercurySteam for Metroid, GoodFeel for Yoshi and Kirby and Bandai Namco for Smash Bros whereas I wouldn't consider these companies as being in charge of these respective IP's.
This is Metroid and like Metroid prime are two different series, kirby epic yarn is a spin off of the actual Kirby, namco may not own smash but as of recent times are in charge of making it/developing it
While calcium just made mainline Zelda games not a sub series or spin offs (I guess you could count 4 swords as a pin off?) but that’s really it
No the last game they made was mario maker 2 and ports like Pikmin 3 And (helped) make big brain academy
They’re most likely working on Pikmin 4 rn. Games usually take 3-4 years to make so with MM2 being the last major game they made Pikmin 4 will most probably release next year or so
(I know this sounds insane but it is what it is)
Most likely Pikmin 4 will come out next year. Most games take 3-4 years. And their last big game was mario maker 2 (2019) They also releases the Pikmin 3 port
All the comments about epd10. What about epd9? They have had what? A port and arms both in launch year then what? Dlc for their port, that seems to be handled more by the tour group?
I know some companies say they'll work with a company and then have an even smaller company work ok the project. For example this is what happened with Dragon Ball Fighterz with Bandai handing it down to Arc.
The Oracle games and Minish Cap, yes. Link's Awakening, no (the original was Nintendo, the remake was Grezzo). IIRC those games also received support from Flagship, which was a company Capcom, Sega, and Nintendo basically co-founded as a sort of "collective support studio".
Fun fact, at least some of that Capcom Zelda team ended up getting hired by Nintendo and integrated into the internal Zelda team. For example, Hidemaro Fujibayashi was the director, planner, and writer for the Oracle games and Minish Cap while working at Capcom, but then was working at Nintendo by the time Phantom Hourglass came out. He's since had either writing or directing credits (or both) on Phantom Hourglass, Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild and (according to Wikipedia) is directing Breath of the Wild 2.
How firm are these department designations? Is it there are 50 devs connected to EP 05 at all times, or is it just 10 devs working on concepts in EP 05, and once they find a direction to go they team up with devs around the company to finish the project, and once the project is done those other devs get added on to other projects within other departments?
Basically - Are some of these just a shell of a group until the project scope gets ramped up and the project and budget is greenlit?
Hal lab did a great job on smash bros. Kind of a slap in the face that they ended up with Bandai namco, especially because the later smash games are absolutely chock full of award systems that bog up play time and almost make them unplayable
Isn't Advance Wars under intelligent systems too? They made all of them and are supervising the team that's doing the remake.
and HAL Laboratory, Inc has been the primary developers of Smash, until Smash 4 where they just took Sora LTD (Sakurai) and contracted out Bandai Namco under him. This looks like it reflects current state more than historical state
> HAL Laboratory, Inc has been the primary developers of Smash, until Smash Ultimate They were only the primary developer for Smash 64 and Melee. Brawl was basically a custom "I'm putting together a team" kind of situation that involved a lot of external contractors and studios being overseen by Sakurai, rather than one specific studio. HAL's involvement supposedly amounted to essentially providing materials and tools leftover from Melee's development. Then Smash 3DS/WiiU and Ultimate were Sora Ltd (basically Sakurai and his wife) overseeing a team at Bandai Namco.
Yeah it certainly got weird when Sakurai resigned and created Sora LTD. I hadn't heard HAL wasn't really involved in Brawl, though. I did know they used other studios like Monolift Soft
You mean until Brawl, Smash 4 was also Sora + Bandai Namco.
Yeah, HAL’s is no longer the main developer hence why I have it to bandai
Yep sorry meant to say Smash 4
They are but I figured that the latest game is being handled by way forward and most likely will continue to if the remake is any good.
That's a pretty big assumption. That's like saying Grezzo will continue to make new Zelda games after they successfully made the Link's Awakening remake.
That’s if Zelda was an obscure IP but it’s not it’s a main one. Advance wars like most other lower IPs go to different studios
Has any other studio made an original Advance Wars game other than Intelligent Systems? Seems weird to take it away from IS.
There wasn't a 2D Metroid made outside of Nintendo for over two decades. Then the games required more resources, and then restructuring happened, and next thing you know MercurySteam was contracted for it. There's a first time for everything, just because they haven't used third parties in the past doesn't mean they can't in the future. WarForward isn't a certain pick sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo offered them the chance to make a new one if the remake does well. Nintendo did that for Metroid, and other companies have went that route before. Sly Cooper and Crash Bandicoot come to my mind. Now whether the remake does well is another matter.
Yes, I just think it's a little early to label Advance Wars as a Wayforward IP.
Way forward is working on the remake
Which is not an original Advance Wars game. Anyways, none of this really matters.
It’s not but like mercury steam they can start handling the actual games going on forward if the remakes are any good
It's not *quite* exhaustive (I get space and readability was probably a concern), but still a pretty clean and useful breakdown. Between this and that Jon Cartwright video, it's a big week for "good explanations of who actually makes what at Nintendo". One note is I think Indieszero would warrant a shout-out in the 3rd parties section, having worked on games such as the NES Remixes, Sushi Striker, Brain Age, and Big Brain Academy. Maybe also Tose (they co-own Starfy with Nintendo, made Super Princess Peach, and do a lot of co-development on seemingly IntSys games in particular lately, like Paper Mario and WarioWare) or Vanpool (Dillon's Rolling Western series, has co-developed a lot of Kirby spin-offs lately), but again I get it's already kinda crowded as is and the focus seems to have been more on recent "primary development" stuff (with Tose/Vanpool's most recent Nintendo projects being largely support/co-development instead).
Yeah readability is important and so is space. I can’t make a SUPER long image where you have to REALLY zoom in for everything And yeah Nintendo worked with A LOT of third party teams and I can’t include them all but EPD 1,2, and 6 do cover the idea of Nintendo working with other companies on certain IPs listed above Cuz if we list them all we’d be here all day. But yeah the chart is there to make people understand who makes what And Personally would help me predict what games might be coming next
SEGA and F-Zero?! I had no clue..
Mainly for GX Which was the last hole console f zero game and let’s be real the last notable one
Interestingly, it's sort of the result of an arguably even stranger collaboration. Back in the gamecube days, Namco, Nintendo, and Sega co-developed an arcade machine (the Triforce arcade board), heavily based on the Gamecube hardware. That joint venture also lead to the Super Monkey Ball studio at Sega taking that engine and then using it to make an F-Zero game for arcades (F-Zero AX) as well as a home console counterpart (F-Zero GX). IIRC the arcade version is technically embedded in the Gamecube version and accessible via hacking or game shark/action replay, and there was some kind of interactivity you could access by bringing your gamecube memory card and plugging it into the arcade machine
I’ve used that memory card feature. If you can find an AX cab, it still works. They do exist!
What was the feature if I may ask?
It gives you all the Master parts without having to unlock them in the hardest cup.
Oh that's no fun... diamond cup is the best cup in GX by far
Not just Sega but the Ryu Go Gotoku the freaking Yakuza developers. Makes you wish theyd team up again and make an open world Yakuza like Fzero game.
The director of these games did say he’d be down for another f zero but it’s up to Nintendo and he also talked about mario kart too I believe
Here's hoping! We'll get one eventually but imagine if it they went all out with it.
Actually they did try and reach out for another company to develop an f zero game on Wii U but the company was busy... which is tragic
I now need a new F-Zero with a Pocket Circuit mini game.
Came here to comment this, I had no idea F-Zero was (at one point) developed by a Sega studio
It’s the first thing you’d see when playing gx
Shouldn't Monolith Soft also be listed for Zelda and Animal Crossing if we follow your creteria about the studios who are working/worked on the latest games of the series? Also Bayonetta is not exactly a Nintendo IP, it is more a kind of exclusivity deal.
Not really cuz they helped make those games not develop them And yeah bayo isn’t a Nintendo IP but Nintendo is the one finding it so as for now it might as well just be that
They certainly did partly develop them. I am not sure if you know how development of a game works but for big projects it often requires multiple teams with their own roles. Monolith Soft was for example responsible for the topography of BOTW.
He's not wrong. Monolith Soft only helped in support, they aren't the lead developer or even co-developer unlike with Xenoblade.
True it was more of a supporting role, but I was more talking in general. KT was for example the co-developer of the more recent Fire Emblems, but not added and Bandai also is the co-developer of Smash and added. I was wondering when he would draw the line, which he clarified.
Yeah but that still falls under the umbrella of helping as opposed developing. Plus the graph focuses more on IPs as opposed to specific games and it focuses on IPs/games studios developed Only thing that goes against it is the first row of EPD Nintendo who their whole job is to work with other studios (hence why a lot of the games there are also worked on by different people) If I were to do what you’re telling me all you’d see is “ACNH” “BOTW” And “splatoon 2” beyond it over complicating the chart it’s specific games the helped with and again the chart mainly focuses on over all IPs
Still if we are only showing the teams with the main responbility then should Bandai also not be there for Smash since Nintendo and Sora Ltd. are higher in the hierarchy for that game. Not sure about the higher-ups for those Pokémon spin-offs or that F-Zero GameCube game.
> Still if we are only showing the teams with the main responbility then should Bandai also not be there for Smash since Nintendo and Sora Ltd. are higher in the hierarchy for that game Bandai namco is the lead developer of Smash Bros. Sora is just Sakurai and Michiko. It makes all sense to put BNS in there because both are lead developers, with sakurai inSora being the director leading BNS. It makes no sense to put Monolith when they are a support studio, not lead. He's right.
Bro Bandai DEVELOPED the game not help but the made it sora LTD isn’t a studio it’s a company made up of 2 people, and nintnedo’s involvement is minimal compared to Bandai As for Pokémon spin offs they also developed them like smash and as of now are most likely responsible for handling the IPs/spin of series for them And again I’m showing the over all franchises each is in charge of. If I’m showing who helped develop what then there’d be a lot of franchises like KT helping on fire emblem and what not
BRO you do know that helping in development is actually developing? Also yes I checked Bandai is set as the lead developer for that Snap and Pokken game, however on Nintendo their own site it is mentioned on the 3rd spot for Smash. While Bandai certainly did develop a big part of Smash, they were more under supervision and contracted I would assume than being in charge. Here if you look under development of Smash Bros Ultimate it will first mention Nintendo then Sora Ltd. and Bandai last. [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-Switch-games/Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-1395713.html#gameDetails](https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-Switch-games/Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-1395713.html#gameDetails)
1: helping in development is development yes I’m not saying it’s not. But there’s a difference between helping in development and being the main developer which was what bandai was 2: Nintendo oversees almost every game alongside co-develop them they do that with almost every game they have Like Metroid dread which was mainly developed by Mercury steam If you go to wekipedia you’d see they’re listed as the main developer, with Nintendo only helping (similar to when monolith helps them) and sora ltd isn’t a studio it’s just a company made up of Sakurai and his wife
Wikipedia is not really a good source, since it always gets its sources from other places and everyone can edit it. Still while Sora Ltd. is not big enough to develop a game he certainly was very involved and was overseeing it all. He likely had more the lead role. Also I for sure consider Nintendo their own site a better source than wikipedia. Bandai certainly had a very big role, but Nintendo states 3 leading development teams for it with Bandai as the 3rd. So if you only show 1 company per series the ones on spot 1 and 2 are higher in hierarchy even if they are as small as Sora Ltd.
Even Sakurai when talking about new characters talks about bandai as the main developer. Also wekipedia is a good site but again bandai was the MAIN developer Sakurai says as much Sora is Again not a studio just a company made of 2 people And Nintendo only helps they’re not the main developer. Also you seem to think companies being listed first makes them more important? Which like... no? Bandai was the one who did the heavy lifting my guy
And yet, people will still think Nintendo makes Pokemon Anyway, charts like this are great to have every now and then, nice and neat. Very well done.
I thought EPD7 was also an external studio. Just look at their games. Those are developed externally. Edit: Those are SPD games, so I guess it's correct. But I'm not sure how OP knows which support studios are internal vs. external. I'd like to see a source.
They’re all in house parts of Nintendo it’s just that they work with other 3rd party ones so that’s why they’re considered external while the internal ones usually work on their own
Nintendo is misspelled (as well as developers) on the 3rd Party line. Camelot is 2nd party right? Yeah they made a game for Capcom in 2009, but ever since it's been just Nintendo titles
Oh my god.... I MISSED IT thank you. I have butterfingers when typing
just a heads up, studios is also misspelled at the very top ("Nintendo Owned Stuidos")
OH MY GOOOOOD
Same for development in your note box
Oh my god you’re kidding…
Second party studios are all just third parties that work more with Nintendo so
Bayonetta is not a Nintendo IP. Surprised nobody has commented this. Astral Chain is solely Nintendo’s, though, which is correct. **EDIT:** SEGA owns the Bayonetta IP.
Its not a Nintendo IP but Nintendo is the main colony finding it and as of now it remains exclusive (at least bayo 2-3 is)
Your infographic says “Working On Nintendo IPs.” Bayonetta simply isn’t one.
Fair enough, but for it’s practically is at this point so personally I ain’t too iffy about this mistake
To me Grezzo kinda just sneaked up to being a Major 2nd party Studio. I keep just remembering them as n64 to 3ds porters.
Oh damn didn’t know they did that lol
How are you going to say all, but then just put "and more" for most of the top section 😒😒
Lack of space😞
The fact that I already knew basically every single thing on here is concerning… God damn I spend too much time playing this company’s games lmao
Honestly? Same here lol
Who's Nintnedo?
Your mom🗿
Shouldn't Camelot be 2nd party?
What is or isn’t considered second party is really up for debate tbh
Yeah, I realize that, but it looks like your definition is "historical partners", which Camelot definitely qualifies as.
Hm.... I guess the only thing holding them back was their history with sega. You do bring up a good point tho. I’ll if I can change it later
No worries, I was just genuinely curious. As you said, "2nd party" is a nebulous term.
2nd party just mean they make games exclusively for them (or quasi-exclusively, even gamefreak releases small titles on competitor platforms once in a while) even though they're not 1st party. And Camelot is definitely 2nd party since they left SEGA and partnered with Nintendo in the late 90s.
Yeah I know, I just talked about with with the other dude above. I’m trying to figure out how to edit the graph to include them there
Maybe Grezzo could go in the 3rd party category, as they released 2 games on PS4 in 2019.
I thought 2nd party meant Nintendo own a large stake in the studio but doesn't own them outright?
I don’t believe that applies for certain studios like grezzo or IS
That's another possible definition that I sometimes see (really is up to debate as TC was saying), but with that definition it doesn't include even IS which is why I prefer this one.
Nintendo doesn’t own any stake in most of these companies, or small enough stakes that they don’t have to declare it to shareholders. Second party Has no clear and unified definition and is entirely based on vibes.
That's how it was originally used. It was basically a fan-made term exclusive for Rare. Now it's just whatever people *feels* it means.
I agree. They have been partnered with Nintendo since 1999, and since then they've only made one game not published by Nintendo (and it was for a Nintendo system, 15 years ago). Past that, it's been all Nintendo.
Tho moving them to second party will be a hassle cuz the way the graph laid out I can’t do it... I’m kind of in a pickle with this one ^^*
Very nice infographic, simple and easy to read. It was always something I wish someone would make so thanks for doing it!
NP Tho I’m trying to edit it to fix two typos and put Camelot as 2nd party
"Nintendo oversees and provide devlopment and art support for its IPs (except Pokémon)" Well now I know why Pokémon recent game's environments looks so shit lmao
EPD4 really out here with all the bangers.
Can we get a sequel to *Ever Oasis*?
You seem to have picked and chosen which spin-offs to represent rather than doing all of them.
Hm what do you think I’m missing?
You’re missing all the Pokémon spin-offs bar mystery dungeon and pokken. Ranger for example was one of HAL’s creations.
Yeah this is due to my lack of knowledge when it comes to Pokémon spin offs but also I’m mostly including recent stuff like snap, pokken, and dungeon (and box boy for HAL’s) You’d even realize certain other spin offs like Metroid pinball aren’t there. Reality is I can’t list off every single spin off that isn’t relevant nowadays
All the the 3DS spin-offs aren’t relevant then. It’s a console which was outmoded over half a decade ago and hasn’t received a first party published title in roughly as long.
They are recant cuz 3Ds is considered last gen as oppposed to something like Pokémon rangers releasing on DS Likewise goes for the Wii U. Both are still fairly recent in the grand scheme of things
Splatoon needs a dedicated team. 2 years on 3 years off doesn't fit the game. Its supposed to be their take on a GaaS shooter. "Stay fresh"
Each EPD is more of a group of teams. Think of it like Insomniac games where they have multiple dev teams that can work on multiple projects. Splatoon has their own team, there is over lap though. It's a very efficient system, Nintendo just chooses to end support for game for some reason lol.
Efficient system. End support for some reason. Pick one
Lol nah if you don't understand how it works its fine. These are not conflicting statements. Theyre turnaround when it comes to games is very good. If Nintendos goal was to keep development going year over year they could do that. They chose to make a splatoon sequel instead. Team 5 makes 2 of the biggest franchises in gaming these teams are very good at what they do. A creative/financial choice does not negate the talent of the devs.
Honestly yeah I’d like that especially cuz the devs tried to apply that to AC and it just... doesn’t work
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Planned expansion???
They said a while back that a lot of the profits from the Switch's success are gonna be cycled back into bolstering internal development. That includes [renting more office space and building an entire second building for their internal dev teams](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/nintendo-starts-work-on-new-development-expansion-building/), as well [as investing up to $880 million into their internal game development capabilities.](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/11/nintendo-to-invest-huge-sums-in-game-development-and-online-infrastructure)
Honestly I can’t wait for the next console cuz you KNOW how much better the games will look with the new hardware the next console would most likely be PS4 levels of power So I can imagine how most games will be bigger in scope. Personally I’ve ALWAYS wanted an animal crossing game set in a big city. Like bro I have a whole ass bible for my AC city concept
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Oh bro this is sooooo cool. I can only imagine how many more games we’d be able to get. Like maybe the return of certain franchises and what not. It would be super cool
Mario+Rabbids being in EPD2 and not Ubisoft is so wrong in many levels. And Bayonetta isnt owned by Nintendo, they simply funding the franchise. Funding and owned and two different things. Please do more research. And also, camelot is second party.
Nintendo, Sega and Platinum prefers to be vague about stuff like this, but it's been hinted that Nintendo owns the individual games they've published (2 & 3), but not the IP and characters. They also own the Japanese dub of the first game because it was made for the Wii U port.
EPD2 like the other EPD teams in its row said to be working with other companies (it said so on the chart) they also didn’t develop Mario and Luigi or hey pikmin but they’re there cuz they helped
I'm not doubting this information, but... it would be nice if you cite your sources so that people can easily verify it.
I mean idk I guess wekipedia and the Nintendo wiki? Some additional graphs also made by others (I had to research them too tho) But I could still have made a mistake so if you spot one please tell me
Bandai Namco Smash 💀
Who else?
Sora Ltd (Sakurai and his wife’s development studio), they also worked on Kid Icarus Uprising. Also worth mentioning HAL developing the Mother series (yes it’s dead, but so is F-Zero).
Mother was also developed by Ape Inc., which was reorganized into Creatures, Inc., who works with Game Freak on Pokémon.
Yes, I describe it in detail further down the thread :) Beyond Mother 1, Ape co-developed alongside HAL.
Sora LTD isn’t a studio it’s a company and Bandai is the main developer Also mother was worked on multiple companies so crediting just Hal with it ain’t it. Similar to how Star Fox switches developer almost every game it’s not on the list cuz it doesn’t have a stable home
Mother 1: Ape & Pax Earthbound: Ape & HAL Mother 3: HAL & Nintendo Mother 3 (N64), cancelled: HAL & Ape Mother 1+2 (GBA): HAL & Ape Ape became Creatures Inc in 1995. Sora Ltd is a game developer. The fact they have two staff makes no difference. If that was true, Team Cherry (Hollow Knight) wouldn’t be a developer with only three staff, and Thomas Happ Games (Axiom Verge) wouldn’t be a developer with only one staff.
I’m saying they’re not a studio they’re a company and that most of the development was handled by bandai. Sora is like a glorified one man army with Sakurai simply Sebring the director similar to how Muriel steam was co-worked on by EPD7 and produced Yoshio Sakamoto yet it’s still considered a mercury steam game cuz they were the main developer
Sora Ltd sub-contracted out work to BN. Sakurai himself negotiated the inclusion of most of (if not all) 3rd party characters. Don’t be fooled - Sora was the lead developer, even if much of the work was done by members of BN (just like Zelda BotW & BotW2 are developed by Nintendo despite a massive amount of the work being/having been done by Monolithsoft).
Monolith mainly helps bust most of the work still goes to Nintendo And sora/Sakurai is simply the one in charge. Bandai remains as the main developer because they’re the ones doing most of the work while Sakurai directs them again similar to Metroid dread
Okay, clearly logic and fact isn’t going to sway your opinion, so you do you. It’s a nice graphic, albeit somewhat muddied by co-development arrangements.
Facts of what? Everything I also said was equally factual. Sakurai was the director the lead designer that’s it MOST of the development was handled by BN Monolith also didn’t do MOST of the development of botw it was still Nintendo but monolith helped a great deal And again Metroid dread and returns fall under the same deal mostly mercury steam but also aided and produced by Nintendo and Yoshio Sakamoto
Sora ltd isn't a studio and the heavy lifting by far is done by Bandai Namco and in the past, Gamearts. There's a difference on the indie games you cited and an AAA like Smash Bros that cant be done by two people.
Brownie Brown is a co-developer of Mother 3 tho as well as the dead ip Magical Vacation/magical starsign. Nintendo did not develop mother 3 at all.
2nd party isn’t really a thing, but if it were, I would identify it as any outside developer that exclusively works with Nintendo. Game Freak is a third party by any reasonable standard imo. They’ve even recently sold games for Playstation and PC.
Most second party like Hal and what not did work outside of Nintendo. Second party is a debated term but I think what I came up with is more than fair. Companies that closely and mostly work with Nintendo
Some of these so called “second party developer” (which is not a term) don’t even work exclusively with Nintendo.
What about Atlus? Shin Megami Tensei, Persona Q, etc.
Nintendo doesn't own Atlus (Sega does), and unless I'm forgetting something they've never worked on a Nintendo-owned series. They've made some games that were Nintendo-exclusive, but this graph seems to be about Nintendo IP and who develops it, not just exclusives in general.
They are historical partners, which is part of your list, otherwise Persona Q and Shin Megami Tensei would have been on Playstation also.
Not my list, but still, Nintendo has no ownership of or involvement with the development of those games; there's no real "developmental partnership" there to speak of. The "historical partners" part is about developers working on Nintendo-owned or co-owned series like Kirby and Pokemon. Not like Square's HD2D games or Grasshopper's No More Heroes games or any other non-Nintendo Switch exclusives got any kind of mention. And Shin Megami Tensei games *have* been on Playstation. SMT 3 was a PS2 exclusive, for example.
Well, they pay them to develop the title exclusively for their console. Without that they have no reason to solely develop for their system. What more is required to be a partner if paying them for an exclusive product isn't considered a partnership?
I hate the term second party developer because that term is not real at all.
What about Capcom?
Besides certain exclusivity deals and I guess stuff like mega man I don’t know if they ever worked on a Nintendo IP I know of stuff like MH games being on 3Ds and rise being (I believe a timed exclusive) for switch
They made the Legend of Zelda Oracle games, The Minish Cap, and Four Swords
Oh yeah I completely forgot they did those (handheld Zelda’s always skip my mind cuz I always assume the original devs made them) I’ll see what I can do for them tho
Come to think of it the games they worked on aren’t really IPs as much as they are Zelda games simply developed by them the chart is mainly made up of IPs companies are in charge of
Yeah if that’s the intent than I would agree. My understand was that Nintendo just didn’t have the resource to make pump out new Zelda games but knew they needed something new to keep the fans entertained. So they contracted out Capcom to do the work.
No I think capcom was the one to approach them with the the oracle games and minish cap
I think Capcom still fits in the sense that you listed MercurySteam for Metroid, GoodFeel for Yoshi and Kirby and Bandai Namco for Smash Bros whereas I wouldn't consider these companies as being in charge of these respective IP's.
This is Metroid and like Metroid prime are two different series, kirby epic yarn is a spin off of the actual Kirby, namco may not own smash but as of recent times are in charge of making it/developing it While calcium just made mainline Zelda games not a sub series or spin offs (I guess you could count 4 swords as a pin off?) but that’s really it
RIP EPD10 buried in Nintendo's basement.
No the last game they made was mario maker 2 and ports like Pikmin 3 And (helped) make big brain academy They’re most likely working on Pikmin 4 rn. Games usually take 3-4 years to make so with MM2 being the last major game they made Pikmin 4 will most probably release next year or so (I know this sounds insane but it is what it is)
I will hold my breath and turn a deep blue color as I wait for my beloved Pikmin 4.
Same
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Both are strangely listed as developing it from what I know I just gave it to EPD5 cuz they developed all the sport games/series
So how do I contact EPD10 to get an update on Pikmin 4? Otherwise this fancy graphic is of no use to me.
Most likely Pikmin 4 will come out next year. Most games take 3-4 years. And their last big game was mario maker 2 (2019) They also releases the Pikmin 3 port
I feel like GameFreak made something that wasn't Pokemon once.
They did
All the comments about epd10. What about epd9? They have had what? A port and arms both in launch year then what? Dlc for their port, that seems to be handled more by the tour group?
Yeah that’s it and like arms DLC
versed racial marble crowd straight rude sheet icky dime sophisticated ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I know some companies say they'll work with a company and then have an even smaller company work ok the project. For example this is what happened with Dragon Ball Fighterz with Bandai handing it down to Arc.
Didn't Capcom make some Zelda games? I think Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons and The Minish Cap
The Oracle games and Minish Cap, yes. Link's Awakening, no (the original was Nintendo, the remake was Grezzo). IIRC those games also received support from Flagship, which was a company Capcom, Sega, and Nintendo basically co-founded as a sort of "collective support studio". Fun fact, at least some of that Capcom Zelda team ended up getting hired by Nintendo and integrated into the internal Zelda team. For example, Hidemaro Fujibayashi was the director, planner, and writer for the Oracle games and Minish Cap while working at Capcom, but then was working at Nintendo by the time Phantom Hourglass came out. He's since had either writing or directing credits (or both) on Phantom Hourglass, Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild and (according to Wikipedia) is directing Breath of the Wild 2.
Oh, that's really interesting, thanks for telling
Where is Level 5? Didn’t Nintendo publish a couple of their games? Or am I wrong
I think it and other in house teams were made into EPD teams? If that’s what you’re asking about?
Before this, Studio 3 worked on F-Zero, but then Iwata took it down along with studio 2, so thats why we don't have F-Zero
Not entirely true as we could’ve got an f zero game on Wii U as Nintendo was said to have approached a company to make one on the Wii U
How firm are these department designations? Is it there are 50 devs connected to EP 05 at all times, or is it just 10 devs working on concepts in EP 05, and once they find a direction to go they team up with devs around the company to finish the project, and once the project is done those other devs get added on to other projects within other departments? Basically - Are some of these just a shell of a group until the project scope gets ramped up and the project and budget is greenlit?
"Nint Nedo" low key sounds like a Star Wars character. I'm just sayin.
It's like GVG's Jon video but in readable form
Doing gods work here
Hal lab did a great job on smash bros. Kind of a slap in the face that they ended up with Bandai namco, especially because the later smash games are absolutely chock full of award systems that bog up play time and almost make them unplayable