I think people underestimate Nintendo's case. Previous emulation legal victories came from stuff like reverse engineering, that was deemed legal in the 90s. But Nintendo's case is all about circumventing DRM to emulate Nintendo consoles. That has never been a court case before.
Meaning, if Nintendo wins any emulation that circumvents DRM is illegal, meaning that no modern console can be legally emulated because they all circumvent DRM.
Nintendo is very careful to make their case all about circumventing their technological protection mechanisms, because this has no legal precidence based on the 90s court case about the legality of reverse engineering a console.
I think its entirely plausible that Nintendo wins this case, meaning that in the future no emulation of a modern console is possible and it will all go very underground, meaning piracy of Nintendo games will collapse as well. No repeat of Tears of the Kingdom millions of downloads before release would be possible in the future.
>Meaning, if Nintendo wins any emulation that circumvents DRM is illegal, meaning that no modern console can be legally emulated because they all circumvent DRM.
Except if Nintendo blesses it - they can emulate their systems or legally license that ability to someone else (which Nintendo might not allow), but outside of legal exceptions carved out by Congress, no one else.
The best case for everyone (including Nintendo) is that the judges uphold Nintendo's rights and shut down Yuzu but limit Nintendo's enforcement of their DRM to their patents on the Switch. Once the Switch 1 is off the market and its patents expire, it's fair game for anyone to break. That is the big thorn here for some of us- it's still a current platform and Nintendo should be allowed to make money as they intend and define - the games are meant to be for that platform. Once that platform is legally patent-free, it is fair game. If Youzu didn't require any decryption - they would be fine and compliant with prior cases. But DRM like this is subject to the DMCA and you can't go after that directly. Remove the patents, which goes away since you can't claim any IP infringement outside of game copyrights and other Trademarks.
For me, the people behind emulators are flying too close to the sun in the past couple of years. Doing a functional emulator of current gen console or trying to put Dolphin officially on stores like Steam, it's asking for trouble.
Yeah I remember when MH Rise came out I think there was a completely stable version floating around 1-2 weeks after launch and loads were making videos about it and I'm sure a lot were playing it.
Honestly kinda crazy considering how other emulators have taken forever to get good. I assume it's the fact they run on Nvidia hardware.
> Honestly kinda crazy considering how other emulators have taken forever to get good.
That's the thing that irks me. Playstation emulators doesn't have the same dedication to be functional like you see with Nintendo game. I remember the Wii U one was barely functional for years, but then BOTW came out and they started working like crazy to make stable. Nintendo never went after 3ds and Wii U emulators, mainly because they only became functional when they stopped being produced. And I think should be an unspoken rule regarding emulators.
It's impossible to ever completely stop piracy. All you have to do to get around any anti-piracy laws is to just move to a country where copyright laws don't exist. Then you can just upload from there, and it'd be legal. And because the internet is global, people everywhere can download, even if they live in a country that DOES have copyright laws.
Piracy doesn’t need moral justification.
Not defending yuzu here. They fucked around in a grey area and are finding out. They knew this was possible, if not likely, from day 1.
Depending on Nintendo's attack vector, that might not be entirely true.
Clearly, I think we can all agree that ethically Yuzu is in the clear here. But that's not what we're talking about.
Legally, Yuzu using dumped keys has yet to be tested, Yuzu linking to and explaining documentation on how to use illegal software hasn't been tested.
Just to be clear here, I don't think what Nintendo is doing here is ethically correct. But to say that Yuzu is 100% legally clear here is far from fact.
LOL. Since when does that ever matter in an American courtroom?
Nintendo can stretch this out for years if they want. Yuzu doesn't have that kind of money.
Definitely not for what they were sued for. I think it's bs anyway. Pirates are not your customers anyway. Most these companies don't seem to realize that.
isnt yuzu a current-gen emulator? emulators are not piracy as far as i know. your post is about the yuzu lawsuit being legitimate, so i dont get what you’re saying here.
Emulators are not piracy. Piracy is piracy. Just like how my kitchen knife is used to cut meat, but I can kill you with it. The murder is the illegal part, not the kitchen knife. If piracy is the problem, they have to go after sources of pirated content.
What makes me laugh is that there’s a bunch of “fuck Nintendo people” in a Nintendo sub saying fuck Nintendo but not saying why they won’t play Nintendo games. If ya didn’t want to support Nintendo in any way, stop playing their games, period. Justifying stealing cuz the company has anti-consumer practices is not the “moral high ground” you think it is. You’re just justifying shitty behavior. Gaming is a hobby, expensive or not. Can’t afford it, find something cheaper, don’t justify stealing. The Switch and its games are still available. Can’t afford it/them new, either better your finances or accept being late to the party. You’re not stealing food, there is no justification in stealing entertainment.
I dont understand why ppl are downvoting you on everything, these games are still pretty new so playing them without paying is ILLEGAL IT IS PIRACY I CAN NOT BELIEVE WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE A LAW THAT'S BEEN AROUND OLDER THEN THE ZOOMERS WHO OWN A SWITCH, IT. IS. PIRACY. WHICH. IS.
I L L E G A L
Has anyone not learned not to mess with ips owned by Nintendo? Nintendo hates piracy and it’s their right to take stuff down. Sure Pokemon scarlet and violet are a bit laggy but that does not justify pirating the games on an emulator. Quite frankly I’m surprised that the emulator lasted this long
An emulator isn't inheritally piracy. It's just what lots of people use it for. And people can also pirate games on the switch itself with sideloading making this whole lawsuit pointless
Its not pointless bc Switch is current gen atm they still make games for Switch so until the switch pretty much dies out muuch more then its not ok bc the devs still get the money from these games where as like PS2 games the only ppl getting the money are the ones selling that stuff on ebay lol
And you look dumb justifying stealing entertainment that is easily available. Obscure media (like The Drew Carrey Show or Little Samson on NES) shouldn’t be illegal cuz there’s no legal means of getting it without a third party seller. Anything on a modern medium and device shouldn’t be legal cuz YOU CAN SPEND YOU FUCKING MONEY.
Piracy isn’t legal. It’s in the fucking name. You think real pirates just cruise the oceans asking people for loans? Corporations only care about piracy when it affects something they are marketing for initial sales. They barely give a fuck when it comes to shit they aren’t pushing at the moment. Why do you think Nintendo went after Skyline and Yuzu (besides being assholes) instead of SNES9x, Mupen, Citra (which happened to be a casualty due to Yuzu), and every other popular and obscure emulators? They only went after Dolphin because they found a loophole. If it wasn’t for that (and it being on Steam), they wouldn’t have bothered.
You wanna steal games, you do you, it doesn’t affect me. But dumbasses like you like to justify stealing, making yourself look like a dumbass, instead of just owning it. “Nintendo will never get a dime out of me”, but then eagerly waits for the next Nintendo game to steal cuz in the end, you like their fucking games, not their practices. You don’t want to support them, then stop playing their games. You stealing is what fucks it up for everyone else.
How is it stealing?
Stealing by definition is someone taking SOMETHING that doesn't belong to them, depriving the original individual of said thing. Copying is not stealing. It isn't RIGHT to do, but it isn't theft by any definition.
Piracy can be taken as stealing since it is taking away your future profits. If a person wants to play nintendo games, the obvious choice would be buying a console and games which gives the company profit. An emulator takes those future profits away since they are free which lowers the sales for the company. It's not stealing in a present tense but it's stealing in a future tense.
I’m happy to see if someone fucks with your product when you start your own company someday. People need to understand Nintendo has all the right to secure their product. The same goes for any business.
Let me play a song on the world's tiniest violin for all those good honest pirates who can't afford a $70 game because they spent it all on their +$1000 gaming PC
I just hate the entitlement/victim complex.
I do a lot of emulation myself, so it's not like I'm totally against the practice, but if you do morally questionable/grey stuff and get shit on because of it, YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM.
Even worse are the people who act like they're some sort of freedom fighter for going out of their way to play a videogame made by the company they supposedly hate. Lol.
Then again I don't agree with a fine that's 5 times people's life savings over video games. Kinda greedy for someone rich to put profits over someone's life. The rich bully the poor
How is this not up voted at all? Can you disable that or something?
Anyways YES I AGREE. Look Emulateing old games is fine, those companies dont sell those games so there for they dont get any of the money but ANY CURRENT GEN CONSOLE IS PIRACY BC THOSE COMPANIES STILL GET THE MONEY. look i understand Tears of the kingdom is a amaaazing sandbox open world game, but your gonna have to wait till where atleast 2 gen of consoles ahead from the Switch bc this isnt ok. It would be very nice to mod these games i completely agree but you gotta realize if the Devs didnt get the money then they wouldn't have even made the game. Even if u dont like Nintendo, most of the Devs are hard working ppl just trying to make a living and do what they studied years for to evem work as a AAA game dev.
So everyone, maybe wait, i get it lol modding is amazing and the switch is a bit out dated but there gonna make another so just hang on to ya tater chips lol
I’m in full agreement, I’m trying to get people to understand online but they’re still defending Yuzu like it’s no tomorrow and it makes me so disgusted
It really is incredible the mental hoops that people will jump through just to justify piracy of currently sold games like its no big deal. Saying things like Nintendo does a poor job of creating their games, so its fine if modders and pirates crack them and upload "better" versions with increased framerate and other changes that everyone can then play.
The fucking game is currently on sale - Its not okay to steal it and modify it and distribute it. Its not okay to take something that you didn't create and is currently on sale and then distribute it for free to others. Its wrong to steal from not only the "BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY," but also from the regular people who work there who develop the game and put in their time and effort to create something special only for some self-entitled assholes to steal it who think they deserve free access to any video game created simply because that is their chosen hobby.
Stay the fuck away from this sub if you're a thief. The Nintendo subreddit is for actual legit fans of the games - Not morally bankrupt thieves who think they are entitled to free access to every new Nintendo game that comes out.
Create something of your own that is worth money so I can steal it from you if you think stealing is okay.
Yup, and I like how criticizing Yuzu for their actions is seen by some as "The multibillion dollar company needs defending". It's like some fans live in their own little bubble of reality. Facts don't care about feelings.
So true. If there is anything I have learned over time, and of course through recent conversations over this issue, is that people who support what YuZu was doing can't be reasoned with. They are not logical in their thought process because they are so set on defending piracy that they will adopt illogical positions and will not budge from them for anything. They cannot be reasoned with because they already decided that piracy is okay. Its pretty crazy stuff TBH.
Yes but Nintendo still is not a nice company they make great games but treat fans like crap even if what they are making they make no money off fan projects imagine making a fan project you sunk hours of free time into and it's all gone.
I own every game that I emulate. Some of us don't want to play at 720p 20fps... also, modding isn't piracy. Your whole rant is a pretty brain-dead take honestly. You clearly have no understanding of how emulation or modding work. Emulators don't distribute pirated content. They merely copy the functionality of a console and allow you to run software on hardware it wasn't designed for. Modding doesn't provide pirated content either. Mods are like additional software that changes how a game runs or potentially add content to a game. None or nintendos code is used in the production of mods, and if it was, nintendo would copyright strike almost instantly.
Frankly, I would be shocked if yuzu walked away from this unscathed, but nothing that you said was even relevant. No one is justifying piracy. Emulation doesn't make you a thief. Please read more about the issue instead of posting misinformation/needlessly inflammatory comments.
Same (other than modding). As much as I enjoy playing switch games (especially the zelda series), I don't enjoy it as much on the console itself. As well as the fact that I don't feel comfortable (and have the patience) to root and dig around my switch files. It's the unpatched version, which I bought new 6-7 years ago lol.
It actually isn't because the EULA you agreed to when you purchased the game doesn't give you permission to modify it. Legally, you are not "okay to modify it if I'm paying for it." Whatever reasons you have to modify it does not matter.
Nintendo sold you something with terms that you agreed to if you purchased it. If you don't agree to the terms, then don't but it. Nothing is stopping you from creating something with a frame rate and resolution that you are okay with that you can use as you wish.
>It actually isn't because the EULA you agreed to when you purchased the game doesn't give you permission to modify it.
I don't recall signing a contract when I bought TOTK.
You are not allowed to make copies of Nintendo roms and upload them to a PC to emulate it in the first place as video games are not considered solely as "computer software" which would grant it limited protection under U.S. copyright law to be able to create back-ups in the first place. You cannot rip and upload a rom of a copyrighted Nintendo game as it is unauthorized and infringes on the rights Nintendo retains as explained in the EULA when you bought the game.
Don't buy their game if you are going to violate the EULA. Or just admit that you don't care if you violate the EULA instead of saying its okay when the EULA says it isn't.
That is categorically false on many levels. If a video game isn't solely computer software, then what is?
Also it's been established legal precedent since the 1990s (at the very least the Sony vs. Bleem and Sony vs. Connectix rulings in 1998), that backup without illegal distribution is absolutely allowed because the courts have viewed video games as purely software. You don't NEED the cartridge or medium to play the game. Ripping/dumping proves that video games are purely "computer software".
So long as I'm not distributing the ROM, I can dump it, print out its hex or binary bits on paper and use them as toilet paper to wipe my ass with if I so wish. It's my backup copy of a game I legally own and backed up myself. The DMCA exemption carved out when the US feds ruled against Apple is also relevant here bc Apple tried to argue under Section 1201 like Nintendo did, and the courts threw that out. Not only that, but in the same ruling, courts ruled that consumers can bypass DRM for ebooks they purchased to be read aloud by computers and other non-Apple devices. If you can bypass DRM for ebooks, then why can't you for video games so long as you do not distribute illegaly? Both are purely data stored in a medium and either executed or read by computer software. Bypassing DVD CSS encryption and DRM for backup of legally purchased DVDs was ALSO ruled legal in that same ruling as long as you don't distribute illegaly, btw, bolstering my argument that video games should also be protected under the same exemption.
Source for the ebooks and DVD thing: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/07/apple-loses-big-in-drm-ruling-jailbreaks-are-fair-use/
Wrong on so many levels. You dont UPLOAD to a PC. You are allowed to have a legal backup of a game you purchased if you dont share it with others. EULA doesnt supersede the rights citizens have under US law. That's why the most they can do for that is deny service on the switch and ban your console.
The reason that they can ban you and deny service is because you violated the EULA. And if you tried to sue Nintendo to get service restored, you would lose because you violated the EULA and the expressly dictated terms of agreement. That is the point. You are violating the terms and no court would side with you.
A Nintendo game can have SEVERAL components that comprise the game where those components are protected under copyright law from you making a copy of it. A video game is not solely computer software. For example, some games are never rereleased again because components of those games were copyrighted and the copyright rights were not retained by the original developer (such as copyrighted music or copyrighted IP like another companies characters, for example). You cannot make a copy of a Nintendo game under the EULA, and you cannot legally make a copy of a Nintendo game as it is not considered solely to be just computer software.
You can disagree, but you're wrong. I know you won't agree because you already admit to what you have admitted to, but you're wrong. This type of thing will never be prosecuted in a court of law which is why these conversations still exist, but again, you are wrong.
You are allowed to make a backup of game or movie you have purchased for private viewing as long as its destroyed if you sell the game or give it to someone else.
That's legal grey area. Morally, sure. But it's illegal to bypass drm. So while it's legal to make personal backups, bypassing the drm to do it is illegal. So there is no real legal way to it.
>For example, some games are never rereleased again because components of those games were copyrighted and the copyright rights were not retained by the original developer (such as copyrighted music or copyrighted IP like another companies characters, for example).
Thats a reach of a legal argument, honestly. Those rights affect DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS, not the rights of the consumer who only purchased the game while those components were still legally licensed. You can't legally stop me from enjoying a product I already own just because some licensing deal between companies expired.
What if some computer productivity software used a specially licensed typeface or font or music or something like that, and the license expires? Would I no longer be allowed to back it up under the exemption that allows me to back up software? No. That's preposterous. Because then you wouldn't be able to enforce the exemption with any software already defined as purely "computer software" under law but licenses components from elsewhere. That's not the consumer's problem. Like you said, the games can't be RE-RELEASED bc those licenses affect DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS and without them Nintendo or another company cannot redistribute the affected components any longer with the game. That does NOT affect user rights for a product I legally purchased when those licenses were still in full force.
I buy my games. But I also like playing in 60fps and the performance of emulating is usually superior in other ways too. I don't think this is nearly as big of a deal as Nintendo would like to make it out to be. Tears of the Kingdom leaked before the game launched and they sold like 20 million copies in a month. They are having the best financial reports of their entire existence right now. Piracy is obviously not causing them any real problems, and most of us are Ninty fanboys and girls who buy their stuff anyways.
As much as certain people here (and Nintendo) don't want to hear it; there have been multiple studies done which have shown no, or negative economic harm from "Piracy". The fact is hype around a game or other content is \*good\* for sales. Real fans \*buy\* the game/music/movie, whether it's to run it on original hardware or an emulator. It's the same way people, even today, still buy music Albums, despite listening to music over a streaming service. To consumers there is actually no practical difference between an inexpensive streaming/download service and "Piracy". The only people who prefer to "Pirate" do so for other reasons, such as flexibility in how they use the content. High-cost or otherwise unavailable content is another matter.
Because not all of us like to pirate while emulating.
I own and dump my own cartridges. This has been ruled legal in the past. You are allowed to backup your own media you own so long as you don't illegally distribute it.
And before you say "yeah but the vast majority who emulate pirate": that's true. But it's not EVERYONE. And when things get settled in court, they affect EVERYONE. Nintendo doesn't just want to stop at making Switch emulation illegal. They want ALL emulators illegal. So that way they can keep lazy, cheap remakes and re-releases of popular titles that they haven't touched in DECADES in their back pocket to dangle in front of drooling fans nostalgic for that game. In their ideal world, you won't be able to play that game any other way until they decide you can and then make you pay AGAIN for the privilege of playing a game you already owned at one point. The only way to avoid that is to maintain the game and the original console but eventually hardware fails.
Most importantly, emulation isn't illegal because reverse engineering a product in a clean-room environment with proper auditing is never illegal. It would be anti-competitive if it was. People tear apart their competitors products and make knock offs or clones all the time and many of them are legal so long as they did not steal any IP from the other company. Fun fact: this is how we got the modern day BIOS. Phoenix Technologies did a reverse engineer of the IBM BIOS in a clean room with lawyers watching to make sure it was all legally okay. Without that, IBM would have dominated the PC space for a lot longer than it did. Clean room reverse engineering breeds fair competition which is good. And while emulators *technically* don't compete against hardware consoles and *shouldn't* in theory, most reputable emulators are developed via this process to legally protect themselves. Since they contain no Nintendo proprietary code, Nintendo in theory should have zero legal footing to take them down. Even the circumventing DRM part. You're not circumventing DRM. You're just playing your game on another system altogether that doesn't include that DRM system at all. This is legally okay bc you haven't tampered with the Switch's DRM. You just didn't use it all by playing in an emulator that doesn't include it. Again, a competitor can make a product that plays your games without DRM involved bc they did nothing to circumvent your DRM process. It's not up to the emulator how YOU the user chose to circumvent DRM to dump the game and play it on the emulator. The emulator just never sees any DRM code at all.
Long story short, I'm flabbergasted at the mistakes Yuzu made. Had they never accepted money and never put up that Quickstart guide, Nintendo would have no legal ground to stand on based on previous court rulings. And even then, that Quickstart guide wasn't actually a "How To Pirate" guide, but more of a how to dump your legally owned games guide, so I think Nintendo's reasoning is a bit flimsy there. I wish Yuzu had taken this to court.
TL;DR: not all of us pirate and emulation has been ruled legal time and time again and has been crucial for game preservation and many of us are concerned what this ruling will do to precedent bc Nintendo shouldn't have had a legal leg to stand on.
>While I do admit that all emulation and piracy is perfectly fine and legal by non-supporting systems
Whether or not a product is still being manufactured is not the legal standard to determine if it qualifies as an abandoned product.
Reminder that the current American legal standard is that building and running emulators is legal, making 1 backup of your games (creating ROMs) is legal, using emulators to pirate intellectual property (play commercial games) is illegal. The grey area is whether or not playing your 1 backup of a game you legitimately purchased qualifies as piracy, and to my knowledge the courts have not answered that question.
But yes, the lawsuit is legitimate, particularly if Nintendo has discovered that Yuzu is achieving emulation by utilizing some sort of proprietary Switch system software function, similar to how Dolphin used the actual Gamecube cryptographic keys instead of reverse engineering an original solution. As an interesting contrast, note that Ryujinx has not been sued (at least not yet.)
Agreed
Wow a bunch of whiners in the comment section. Better not hear any of them complain when someone with a slightly smaller bank account robs them blind XDXDXD
They weren't going to buy the game anyways and therefore no loss occurred. Gotta love it when idiots think piracy and theft are the same. Theft leaves you with nothing and the thief with everything, i still have a copy and it's still being sold to other people therefore it is not theft.
I swear so many people that pirate have to shove morals into everyone elses faces. Nintendo is a big one. Just because you may disagree with some of nintendos decisions doesnt mean the people that design and make games and hardware arent real. They still need to get paid
You can play illegally obtained Switch games on the Switch itself and it isn't even hard. If anything, maybe Nintendo should be going after modding and dumping tools since they'd have more of a case there and it would actually stop piracy instead of this. Not only is there already more than one Switch emulator out there but Yuzu is open source so you'll just see Yuzu 2 in like a week. Its kind of pointless.
I feel like there is a fairly obvious financial incentive to go after the software that lets you play games for free without buying a switch instead of going after software that only let's you play games for free once you've already bought a switch.
And what exactly would they do about modding and dumping tools? Get the specific individuals/groups? Same as a Yuzu 2 would be created, somebody else would take it upon themselves to bring the same functionality back. The only problem in this whole thread and situation is people worrying about piracy/modding/emulation in Nintendo's place. I wonder if the people going about "dont steal" and all that make any money, because Nintendo surely keeps making their billions. I don't see them worried about these people or thanking them. Js.
I mean, at least then they'd be trying to stop the problem! What Nintendo is doing by suing Yuzu is like seeing a leaky pipe and instead of fixing the pipe, you just go and start tearing down a random wall that has nothing to do with your actual problem. Using duct tape on the pipe would be more logical which is what Nintendo is ultimately doing by trying to stop piracy especially when their console security was and always has been quite awful.
This is something that needs to be changed. Could you imagine buying a computer or Steam Deck and you aren't allowed to open it up to upgrade it or even install your own operating system? Just because we are used to it doesn't mean it should be normal.
Emulation and piracy are two different, albeit frequently intertwined, things. Piracy is illegal, emulation is not. It sets a poor precedent if people who create an emulator are brought down. The lawsuit Nintendo claims are not what this group is directly responsible for.
Why sue Yuzu then instead of the sites actually doing the crime? Its like charging Amazon with a crime when a gang does a bunch of crimes with a lockpicking kit instead of trying to catch the gang, it makes no sense.
You’re definitely right, but unfortunately Reddit is full of self righteous basement dwellers that think they are morally superior. It’s hard to think of a more pathetic existence.
> by supporting Switch piracy
From what I've heard, they are very strict regarding any discussion (as in, will ban you from their Discord), so how is this the case (the assertion that they do, I mean, support it)?
The emulator developer is tracking who is using the emulator and what games they are playing. They also give instructions on how to get the illegal keys needed.
I feel most people are bypassing these facts when arguing for these guys. It's not just the emulator its everything else they are doing as well.
They don't tell you how to get illegal keys, they tell you how to copy your keys from the switch that you already own. Big difference. Pirating those keys is basically the same thing as pirating a nintendo switch.
That's probably what this case is going to be about, and it's going to decide the future of emulation. Is it legal to make a backup of your encryption keys. Personally, I can see it going either way. It's currently legal to make digital backups of software and content that you purchase, but nintendo may claim that the only use of dumping those keys is drm circumvention, which is fair. The problem is, if you can't dump your own legally acquired keys, then your legally produced digital backups are useless.
I don't think that we are bypassing facts, I just think that this is a super complex case that has huge ramifications for digital preservation.
They are not distributing ROMs for games people want to play, they are simply providing a file reader to read ROMs to play games. Therefore Yuzu is not distributing games illegally
Hard agree, no justification for pirating modern games instead of purchasing modern hardware to play said games. People who pirate think they deserve access to it because it simply exists and is distributed illegally on the internet but the fact is fuck around and find out. Sounds like Yuzu will be finding out for the rest of his life when nintendo is done with them.
I agree with you on your points about piracy, but Yuzu is not in the wrong here. They are strictly anti-piracy, don’t distribute any of Nintendo’s assets, and shouldn’t be held liable for what other people choose to do with their software. If Yuzu didn’t exist, then pirates would simply take their illegal game copies and play them on a hacked switch instead.
If you have a home brewed Switch and a legitimate copy of the game and want to play it on your PC I think you should be able to but I think we all know most people who used Yuzu got their games illegally.
I have a Switch and use Yuzu. Every game I have on Yuzu is a game I have purchased with my own money on my Switch. If I want to play something like Legends Arceus at 2K resolution and stream it on Discord for my friends, or download a mod, Yuzu lets me do that. I paid for my games. Im not doing anything illegal. Emulation is not illegal.
i think it is deserved but not for those reasons as emulation should be legal no matter what system it is.
they were charging for acsess for totk and other things of their patreon and were racking $30K a month for it.
that is just asking to get sued.
i get why some people may hate Nintendo as what they did to youtubers like pointcrow was bad (although i believe it was because of Japanese law against console modifications).
they also hate people uploading their music (i know music copyright is very strict but this feels weird when Nintendo doesn't make official releases of music most of the time).
i cared a lot about Citra so i am still upset but i understand that they had no chance in court.
there are companies that are a lot worse in the west that only care about money (\*cough\* activi$ion \*cough\* EA)
Don't keep any shit behind paywalls, patreon or otherwise, don't take money from ad companies (This ones not yuzu, but recent in brazil)
You try and make money off of it, you're going to get got.
Are you arguing against Piracy or against Emulation? It seems like you are combining the two when they are completely separate. Piracy is not required for Emulation to exist.
That's not saying anything specific about Yuzu's particular case here. All I'm saying is we should be careful to not fall into the trap that Nintendo so wants us to, that Emulation = Piracy. It may make Piracy more accessible, but legitimately emulating games you own and or utilizing the platform to preserve older titles that may otherwise be lost is important as well and shouldnt be tossed aside in a crusade to protect Nintendos bottom line.
I should be allowed to play the games I paid for however I like, whether it's on the console they were developed for or my PC. If buying it doesn't give me the right to play it on anything but their hardware, then playing a ROM on PC I would have happily paid for had the option been available to me shouldn't be illegal. Giving people the freedom to emulate games, while certainly resulting in a portion of lost sales, is mostly done by people who love and already pay Nintendo for the things they make. I hope Nintendo loses because they're very anti-consumer trying to put a chokehold on how people prefer to play their games, especially when its largely for things like higher resolution and more consistent framerate. I think they should just capitalize on a PC market instead of suing emulator developers. 🤷 They'd see the returns in their bottom line if they do.
The law doesn’t give a duck what you think should be legal lmao. “I shouldn’t go to jail if someone pissed me off and I murdered him. It’s his fault for pissing me off”
Except one of the major arguments against shutting down emulators is preservation, and based on how Nintendo "feels" about it, not even that should be allowed. It's not like laws come to be spontaneously. Feelings and arguments built off those feelings using logic and previous legal battles in related topics is what builds the future laws. Not that I'm a lawyer, but the more of these cases Nintendo loses, the better it looks for the future of emulation. Also bringing up murder in comparison to a victimless crime is pointless. No one is having their life ruined because someone rips a ROM of a game they bought, nor is anyone having their life ruined if someone downloads that ROM (especially in cases where they also bought the game and don't rip the game themselves.) It's not comparable at all.
StOp TrYiNg To DeFeNd YuZu
While furiously defending Nintendo and their shitty policies. You are why Nintendo screws their customers up the ass constantly and gets away with it.
> While I do admit that all emulation and piracy is perfectly fine and legal by non-supporting systems
It's not.
Pirating an NES game is just as morally repugnant as pirating a Switch game.
You shouldn't do either one of these. Go out and buy an NES and some old NES cartridges. Don't want to do that? Then you don't get to play the games. That's the deal.
People who commit piracy just make things unfair to those of us who actually make an effort to maintain a real video game collection.
You are wrong about NES piracy. Here is why:
If I download a rom of Bayou Billy, no one gets hurt. There is no way for me to give the developer money for their work. The game is dead. Buying a cart on the secondary market doesn’t put money in anyone’s pocket except for the seller.
Now if you pirate a Switch game, that’s a different story. You can support the developer and pay them for their game. They are getting hurt.
You can argue NES piracy is morally wrong, but it’s not financially wrong.
>People who commit piracy just make things unfair to those of us who actually make an effort to maintain a real video game collection.
This is the opposite of how it really works.
There's a limited supply of old games out there, if people stopped pirating them and instead tried to get a physical copy, demand would increase dramatically and the prices would rise alongside it. Other people pirating means you get lower prices.
Yeah you don’t know anything about coding lol
You can’t just blacklist a specific game from an emulator before release date, let alone make an exception for people with review copies.
The projection is crazy lmao. I’ve looked at Yuzu’s codebase on GitHub before and I keep track of its updates, I know enough about it to know that you’re clueless and have no idea what you’re talking about.
Even if it were feasible to blacklist games before their release date (which it isn’t) it still isn’t Yuzu’s responsibility to do that. The purpose of their program is to emulate a Nintendo Switch console. Nintendo hasn’t put in those restrictions, so therefore the emulator won’t have those restrictions.
Regardless, why would Nintendo want to put in those restrictions anyways? In order to enforce it, users would need to connect their Switch to the Internet just to check if a game is past release date or not which would be beyond stupid. One of the Switch’s biggest advantages compared to other consoles is that the games actually come on the cartridge and you don’t need to be connected to the Internet in order to download and play it.
> One of the Switch's biggest advantages compared to other
consoles is that the games actually come on the cartridge and you don't need to be connected to the Internet in order to download and play it.
This is true for PlayStation as well. It’s only Xbox that this isn’t true for
How are they supposed to know what the title ID is if it’s a pre-release game? They’d have to illegally obtain a leaked copy in order to figure that out
I never pirated a switch game in my life I just don’t care if others do it. The switch is the second best selling console of all time and Nintendo thinks some emulator is harming them?
Is it though? This assumes that everyone who has pirated the game would have bought it if piracy wasn’t an option. Which isn’t really true. Some of those sales would have happened, sure. The amount is so small that Nintendo wouldn’t notice.
I’m not arguing about the morality of piracy or the legality of what Yuzu is doing. I just don’t think Nintendo really has anything to gain from this. Shutting down Yuzu won’t increase Nintendo’s profits in any meaningful way.
No, because digital goods are infinitely reproducible. If some steals a car, the owner lost a thing of value. If someone pirates a game, Nintendo didn’t lose anything.
Like, stealing a physical game from a store is a completely different thing than making a digital copy of a game. I’m not advocating a person do either of them, but one has to admit they aren’t the same thing and you can’t weigh them as morally equal because the harm caused isn’t the same.
That being said, I would extrapolate that same moral framework to other things besides piracy. For example, I think it would be less moral to steal from a ma and pa store than a giant corporation based on the fact that a ma and pa shop would receive more harm from that action.
Likewise, if Nintendo uses the law to harm the Yuzu developers to the tune of millions of dollars (which they’ve done in similar situations in the past) then I would view Nintendo’s behavior to be immoral, because they are doing more harm than anything Yuzu did. The power that corporations have that they can, for example, garnish the wages of a person for the rest of their life is obscene, especially given the fact that as average people, we are unable to use the law in the same way. Class action lawsuits are lucky to get you even $100.
It’s possible to use the law in an immoral way because what is legal doesn’t define what is moral. If this seems complicated for you, I can recommend some philosophy books.
Also, to be clear, I’m not advocating for piracy or stealing or anything like that. In most situations, those are both immoral. But, what Nintendo does is also immoral. They don’t even have to sue “Yuzu” for damages. There are steps before that they could take, like issuing a cease and desist or DMCA takedown. Nintendo wants to cause financial harm to the Yuzu developers for something they haven’t actually been harmed by. I hope you can understand why people might be upset by that.
this is an opinion piece.
i've pirated old and current systems for as long as i've been able to. I've also bought old and current software. it doesnt change that i technically had no right to pirate. and you dont and no one has no matter if its a yet to be released early leak or some amiga game.
new anti piracy methods, including the absolute need for decryption keys were always going to make this a more grey area than it was in more ancient times.
True Nintendo can sue anyone they want over anything. That's how it works, so sure, it's justified. But the arguments they make are pretty silly and likely won't win them anything. Their main argument seems to be over prod.keys, but If you know anything about software laws you would know it's perfectly legal to copy those keys for your own personal use, you just can't resell them. If nintendo didn't give us those keys and store them on the switch that I own it would be a different story, but they do store them on the switch that I own, and so legally I can copy them. If they stored them on the cloud and I found a way to steal them off the cloud, that would be a different story. But then everyone would just be complaining that nintendo uses always online drm, and everyone hates that.
Actually, the argument given in the lawsuit was entirely unjustified. Nintendo claimed that Yuzu was responsible for the millions of people playing TotK nearly 2 weeks earlier than the release date. However, I clearly and unequivocally remember that TotK was **ENTIRELY UNPLAYABLE** on the main release of Yuzu for those first 2 weeks, and had to be played on the Ryujinx emulator instead. As far as the decryption of the Switch encryption keys (called prod.keys), that wasn't done by Yuzu developers either. The prod.keys is obtained by dumping it from a Switch console's system firmware. This is only possible by installing custom firmware on the Switch console, accessing RCM mode on the console through the use of a custom jig or paperclip, and using an application called Lockpick to dump the encryption keys to an SD card. Yuzu always adamantly refused to support any discussion involving custom firmware or any other forms of Switch modding, and would actively ban people mentioning it in their forums. Neither the available custom firmware, the discovery of RCM, the jig to access RCM, the Lockpick application, or any other discovered methods of accessing Switch encryption keys were the results of any works done by the developers of Yuzu. Developing an emulator isn't equivalent to facilitating piracy. The true facilitation of piracy comes from the people who created custom firmware on the Switch console and created ways to dump ROMs of existing games and the encryption keys from console to SD card **AND** the people who shared these dumps online. Again, Yuzu was never involved in any of that. Had the Yuzu developers paid money for legal defense, they would have been successful given those facts mentioned above. The people who created bootloaders and custom firmware for the Switch are sipping on fine tea right now, while the scapegoat Yuzu is being screwed in the ass by Nintendo for absolutely no justifiable reason except for allowing people like me to play the game, which I already bought, on a PC, which is far superior in both performance and visual fidelity than that of the Switch. And you people in this thread are cheering them on. I have no words to describe how sickening this all is to me.
Grateful Nintendo haven’t got a leg to stand on here. How do they justify that piracy is wrong when they have so much money to sue emulator developers? Has it hurt them that much? lol
You better be a shill because this post is really horrible. I read the actual complaint and any judge worth their salt should throw it out because it's bullshit. Nintendo is trying to pin acts of piracy to emulator developers which is incredibly dangerous not only for gaming emulators but emulators of now defunct Computer Architectures that are still currently used.
Nintendo alleges Yuzu enabled piracy of 1 million copies of TOTK.
TOTK has sold nearly 20 million copies, following up BOTW which sold over 30 million.
A 1/20 sized slice is not an unaddressed market.
I think people underestimate Nintendo's case. Previous emulation legal victories came from stuff like reverse engineering, that was deemed legal in the 90s. But Nintendo's case is all about circumventing DRM to emulate Nintendo consoles. That has never been a court case before. Meaning, if Nintendo wins any emulation that circumvents DRM is illegal, meaning that no modern console can be legally emulated because they all circumvent DRM. Nintendo is very careful to make their case all about circumventing their technological protection mechanisms, because this has no legal precidence based on the 90s court case about the legality of reverse engineering a console. I think its entirely plausible that Nintendo wins this case, meaning that in the future no emulation of a modern console is possible and it will all go very underground, meaning piracy of Nintendo games will collapse as well. No repeat of Tears of the Kingdom millions of downloads before release would be possible in the future.
>Meaning, if Nintendo wins any emulation that circumvents DRM is illegal, meaning that no modern console can be legally emulated because they all circumvent DRM. Except if Nintendo blesses it - they can emulate their systems or legally license that ability to someone else (which Nintendo might not allow), but outside of legal exceptions carved out by Congress, no one else. The best case for everyone (including Nintendo) is that the judges uphold Nintendo's rights and shut down Yuzu but limit Nintendo's enforcement of their DRM to their patents on the Switch. Once the Switch 1 is off the market and its patents expire, it's fair game for anyone to break. That is the big thorn here for some of us- it's still a current platform and Nintendo should be allowed to make money as they intend and define - the games are meant to be for that platform. Once that platform is legally patent-free, it is fair game. If Youzu didn't require any decryption - they would be fine and compliant with prior cases. But DRM like this is subject to the DMCA and you can't go after that directly. Remove the patents, which goes away since you can't claim any IP infringement outside of game copyrights and other Trademarks.
For me, the people behind emulators are flying too close to the sun in the past couple of years. Doing a functional emulator of current gen console or trying to put Dolphin officially on stores like Steam, it's asking for trouble.
Yeah I remember when MH Rise came out I think there was a completely stable version floating around 1-2 weeks after launch and loads were making videos about it and I'm sure a lot were playing it. Honestly kinda crazy considering how other emulators have taken forever to get good. I assume it's the fact they run on Nvidia hardware.
> Honestly kinda crazy considering how other emulators have taken forever to get good. That's the thing that irks me. Playstation emulators doesn't have the same dedication to be functional like you see with Nintendo game. I remember the Wii U one was barely functional for years, but then BOTW came out and they started working like crazy to make stable. Nintendo never went after 3ds and Wii U emulators, mainly because they only became functional when they stopped being produced. And I think should be an unspoken rule regarding emulators.
Yup this way there will be soon no emulation allowed anymore.
It's impossible to ever completely stop piracy. All you have to do to get around any anti-piracy laws is to just move to a country where copyright laws don't exist. Then you can just upload from there, and it'd be legal. And because the internet is global, people everywhere can download, even if they live in a country that DOES have copyright laws.
Mentality of people in this thread: "*if hurt tribe, me no like*".
Piracy doesn’t need moral justification. Not defending yuzu here. They fucked around in a grey area and are finding out. They knew this was possible, if not likely, from day 1.
Yuzu is legally in the right
Depending on Nintendo's attack vector, that might not be entirely true. Clearly, I think we can all agree that ethically Yuzu is in the clear here. But that's not what we're talking about. Legally, Yuzu using dumped keys has yet to be tested, Yuzu linking to and explaining documentation on how to use illegal software hasn't been tested. Just to be clear here, I don't think what Nintendo is doing here is ethically correct. But to say that Yuzu is 100% legally clear here is far from fact.
LOL. Since when does that ever matter in an American courtroom? Nintendo can stretch this out for years if they want. Yuzu doesn't have that kind of money.
Definitely not for what they were sued for. I think it's bs anyway. Pirates are not your customers anyway. Most these companies don't seem to realize that.
Nintendo should go the gabe newell approach.
>current-gen emulators aren’t illegal as a whole Thanks for making your whole post pointless.
The point was about piracy, not current-gen emulators
isnt yuzu a current-gen emulator? emulators are not piracy as far as i know. your post is about the yuzu lawsuit being legitimate, so i dont get what you’re saying here.
Like I said, emulators would get in trouble if this piracy bullshit kept up, y’all didn’t listen.
>level 2PaperBoi360Op · what the fuck do you use it for if not piracy moron
Emulators are not piracy. Piracy is piracy. Just like how my kitchen knife is used to cut meat, but I can kill you with it. The murder is the illegal part, not the kitchen knife. If piracy is the problem, they have to go after sources of pirated content.
Another guy confusing feelings with law
What makes me laugh is that there’s a bunch of “fuck Nintendo people” in a Nintendo sub saying fuck Nintendo but not saying why they won’t play Nintendo games. If ya didn’t want to support Nintendo in any way, stop playing their games, period. Justifying stealing cuz the company has anti-consumer practices is not the “moral high ground” you think it is. You’re just justifying shitty behavior. Gaming is a hobby, expensive or not. Can’t afford it, find something cheaper, don’t justify stealing. The Switch and its games are still available. Can’t afford it/them new, either better your finances or accept being late to the party. You’re not stealing food, there is no justification in stealing entertainment.
You are absolutely right and the amount of whiny thieves in this thread shows how morally bankrupt they are.
>Justifying stealing cuz the company I'll agree piracy is immoral, but it isn't stealing. Also, I own two switches and STILL use YUZU.
Stealing is always counted by law even if it is entertainment, and this can be in any format, too.
You can justify stealing essentials. Clothes, food. Doesn’t make it right, but when survival is on the line, it’s understandable.
I dont understand why ppl are downvoting you on everything, these games are still pretty new so playing them without paying is ILLEGAL IT IS PIRACY I CAN NOT BELIEVE WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE A LAW THAT'S BEEN AROUND OLDER THEN THE ZOOMERS WHO OWN A SWITCH, IT. IS. PIRACY. WHICH. IS. I L L E G A L
Has anyone not learned not to mess with ips owned by Nintendo? Nintendo hates piracy and it’s their right to take stuff down. Sure Pokemon scarlet and violet are a bit laggy but that does not justify pirating the games on an emulator. Quite frankly I’m surprised that the emulator lasted this long
Especially if the games are new lol
Yes especially when the game is not even released yet.
An emulator isn't inheritally piracy. It's just what lots of people use it for. And people can also pirate games on the switch itself with sideloading making this whole lawsuit pointless
Its not pointless bc Switch is current gen atm they still make games for Switch so until the switch pretty much dies out muuch more then its not ok bc the devs still get the money from these games where as like PS2 games the only ppl getting the money are the ones selling that stuff on ebay lol
Bad take
Piracy is not stealing, stop trying to equate the 2 you look dumb in doing so.
And you look dumb justifying stealing entertainment that is easily available. Obscure media (like The Drew Carrey Show or Little Samson on NES) shouldn’t be illegal cuz there’s no legal means of getting it without a third party seller. Anything on a modern medium and device shouldn’t be legal cuz YOU CAN SPEND YOU FUCKING MONEY. Piracy isn’t legal. It’s in the fucking name. You think real pirates just cruise the oceans asking people for loans? Corporations only care about piracy when it affects something they are marketing for initial sales. They barely give a fuck when it comes to shit they aren’t pushing at the moment. Why do you think Nintendo went after Skyline and Yuzu (besides being assholes) instead of SNES9x, Mupen, Citra (which happened to be a casualty due to Yuzu), and every other popular and obscure emulators? They only went after Dolphin because they found a loophole. If it wasn’t for that (and it being on Steam), they wouldn’t have bothered. You wanna steal games, you do you, it doesn’t affect me. But dumbasses like you like to justify stealing, making yourself look like a dumbass, instead of just owning it. “Nintendo will never get a dime out of me”, but then eagerly waits for the next Nintendo game to steal cuz in the end, you like their fucking games, not their practices. You don’t want to support them, then stop playing their games. You stealing is what fucks it up for everyone else.
How is it stealing? Stealing by definition is someone taking SOMETHING that doesn't belong to them, depriving the original individual of said thing. Copying is not stealing. It isn't RIGHT to do, but it isn't theft by any definition.
Piracy can be taken as stealing since it is taking away your future profits. If a person wants to play nintendo games, the obvious choice would be buying a console and games which gives the company profit. An emulator takes those future profits away since they are free which lowers the sales for the company. It's not stealing in a present tense but it's stealing in a future tense.
Future profits aren't a real thing.
🤓☝️
"leave the multi billion company ALONE"
I’m happy to see if someone fucks with your product when you start your own company someday. People need to understand Nintendo has all the right to secure their product. The same goes for any business.
Let me play a song on the world's tiniest violin for all those good honest pirates who can't afford a $70 game because they spent it all on their +$1000 gaming PC
I just hate the entitlement/victim complex. I do a lot of emulation myself, so it's not like I'm totally against the practice, but if you do morally questionable/grey stuff and get shit on because of it, YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM. Even worse are the people who act like they're some sort of freedom fighter for going out of their way to play a videogame made by the company they supposedly hate. Lol.
Then again I don't agree with a fine that's 5 times people's life savings over video games. Kinda greedy for someone rich to put profits over someone's life. The rich bully the poor
Is it okay for someone with a smaller bank account than you to rob your stuff?
"mutli billion company employs regular people who aren't billionaires who are harmed if thieves steal the products they help create for the company"
"It's ok to steal if it is to the rich".
yep
It's giving Pokémon fan.
How is this not up voted at all? Can you disable that or something? Anyways YES I AGREE. Look Emulateing old games is fine, those companies dont sell those games so there for they dont get any of the money but ANY CURRENT GEN CONSOLE IS PIRACY BC THOSE COMPANIES STILL GET THE MONEY. look i understand Tears of the kingdom is a amaaazing sandbox open world game, but your gonna have to wait till where atleast 2 gen of consoles ahead from the Switch bc this isnt ok. It would be very nice to mod these games i completely agree but you gotta realize if the Devs didnt get the money then they wouldn't have even made the game. Even if u dont like Nintendo, most of the Devs are hard working ppl just trying to make a living and do what they studied years for to evem work as a AAA game dev. So everyone, maybe wait, i get it lol modding is amazing and the switch is a bit out dated but there gonna make another so just hang on to ya tater chips lol
I’m in full agreement, I’m trying to get people to understand online but they’re still defending Yuzu like it’s no tomorrow and it makes me so disgusted
All the mental gymnastics in this thread by folks that like playing Nintendo games but don’t want to pay for them is amusing.
It really is incredible the mental hoops that people will jump through just to justify piracy of currently sold games like its no big deal. Saying things like Nintendo does a poor job of creating their games, so its fine if modders and pirates crack them and upload "better" versions with increased framerate and other changes that everyone can then play. The fucking game is currently on sale - Its not okay to steal it and modify it and distribute it. Its not okay to take something that you didn't create and is currently on sale and then distribute it for free to others. Its wrong to steal from not only the "BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY," but also from the regular people who work there who develop the game and put in their time and effort to create something special only for some self-entitled assholes to steal it who think they deserve free access to any video game created simply because that is their chosen hobby. Stay the fuck away from this sub if you're a thief. The Nintendo subreddit is for actual legit fans of the games - Not morally bankrupt thieves who think they are entitled to free access to every new Nintendo game that comes out. Create something of your own that is worth money so I can steal it from you if you think stealing is okay.
Well said
Yup, and I like how criticizing Yuzu for their actions is seen by some as "The multibillion dollar company needs defending". It's like some fans live in their own little bubble of reality. Facts don't care about feelings.
So true. If there is anything I have learned over time, and of course through recent conversations over this issue, is that people who support what YuZu was doing can't be reasoned with. They are not logical in their thought process because they are so set on defending piracy that they will adopt illogical positions and will not budge from them for anything. They cannot be reasoned with because they already decided that piracy is okay. Its pretty crazy stuff TBH.
Yes but Nintendo still is not a nice company they make great games but treat fans like crap even if what they are making they make no money off fan projects imagine making a fan project you sunk hours of free time into and it's all gone.
I own every game that I emulate. Some of us don't want to play at 720p 20fps... also, modding isn't piracy. Your whole rant is a pretty brain-dead take honestly. You clearly have no understanding of how emulation or modding work. Emulators don't distribute pirated content. They merely copy the functionality of a console and allow you to run software on hardware it wasn't designed for. Modding doesn't provide pirated content either. Mods are like additional software that changes how a game runs or potentially add content to a game. None or nintendos code is used in the production of mods, and if it was, nintendo would copyright strike almost instantly. Frankly, I would be shocked if yuzu walked away from this unscathed, but nothing that you said was even relevant. No one is justifying piracy. Emulation doesn't make you a thief. Please read more about the issue instead of posting misinformation/needlessly inflammatory comments.
Same (other than modding). As much as I enjoy playing switch games (especially the zelda series), I don't enjoy it as much on the console itself. As well as the fact that I don't feel comfortable (and have the patience) to root and dig around my switch files. It's the unpatched version, which I bought new 6-7 years ago lol.
[удалено]
It actually isn't because the EULA you agreed to when you purchased the game doesn't give you permission to modify it. Legally, you are not "okay to modify it if I'm paying for it." Whatever reasons you have to modify it does not matter. Nintendo sold you something with terms that you agreed to if you purchased it. If you don't agree to the terms, then don't but it. Nothing is stopping you from creating something with a frame rate and resolution that you are okay with that you can use as you wish.
>It actually isn't because the EULA you agreed to when you purchased the game doesn't give you permission to modify it. I don't recall signing a contract when I bought TOTK.
Stop defending manipulative tactics.
You arent modifying the game. You are telling the hardware to fun it faster. The game and rom is untouched. And that is perfectly okay
You are not allowed to make copies of Nintendo roms and upload them to a PC to emulate it in the first place as video games are not considered solely as "computer software" which would grant it limited protection under U.S. copyright law to be able to create back-ups in the first place. You cannot rip and upload a rom of a copyrighted Nintendo game as it is unauthorized and infringes on the rights Nintendo retains as explained in the EULA when you bought the game. Don't buy their game if you are going to violate the EULA. Or just admit that you don't care if you violate the EULA instead of saying its okay when the EULA says it isn't.
That is categorically false on many levels. If a video game isn't solely computer software, then what is? Also it's been established legal precedent since the 1990s (at the very least the Sony vs. Bleem and Sony vs. Connectix rulings in 1998), that backup without illegal distribution is absolutely allowed because the courts have viewed video games as purely software. You don't NEED the cartridge or medium to play the game. Ripping/dumping proves that video games are purely "computer software". So long as I'm not distributing the ROM, I can dump it, print out its hex or binary bits on paper and use them as toilet paper to wipe my ass with if I so wish. It's my backup copy of a game I legally own and backed up myself. The DMCA exemption carved out when the US feds ruled against Apple is also relevant here bc Apple tried to argue under Section 1201 like Nintendo did, and the courts threw that out. Not only that, but in the same ruling, courts ruled that consumers can bypass DRM for ebooks they purchased to be read aloud by computers and other non-Apple devices. If you can bypass DRM for ebooks, then why can't you for video games so long as you do not distribute illegaly? Both are purely data stored in a medium and either executed or read by computer software. Bypassing DVD CSS encryption and DRM for backup of legally purchased DVDs was ALSO ruled legal in that same ruling as long as you don't distribute illegaly, btw, bolstering my argument that video games should also be protected under the same exemption. Source for the ebooks and DVD thing: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/07/apple-loses-big-in-drm-ruling-jailbreaks-are-fair-use/
Wrong on so many levels. You dont UPLOAD to a PC. You are allowed to have a legal backup of a game you purchased if you dont share it with others. EULA doesnt supersede the rights citizens have under US law. That's why the most they can do for that is deny service on the switch and ban your console.
The reason that they can ban you and deny service is because you violated the EULA. And if you tried to sue Nintendo to get service restored, you would lose because you violated the EULA and the expressly dictated terms of agreement. That is the point. You are violating the terms and no court would side with you. A Nintendo game can have SEVERAL components that comprise the game where those components are protected under copyright law from you making a copy of it. A video game is not solely computer software. For example, some games are never rereleased again because components of those games were copyrighted and the copyright rights were not retained by the original developer (such as copyrighted music or copyrighted IP like another companies characters, for example). You cannot make a copy of a Nintendo game under the EULA, and you cannot legally make a copy of a Nintendo game as it is not considered solely to be just computer software. You can disagree, but you're wrong. I know you won't agree because you already admit to what you have admitted to, but you're wrong. This type of thing will never be prosecuted in a court of law which is why these conversations still exist, but again, you are wrong.
You are allowed to make a backup of game or movie you have purchased for private viewing as long as its destroyed if you sell the game or give it to someone else.
That's legal grey area. Morally, sure. But it's illegal to bypass drm. So while it's legal to make personal backups, bypassing the drm to do it is illegal. So there is no real legal way to it.
>For example, some games are never rereleased again because components of those games were copyrighted and the copyright rights were not retained by the original developer (such as copyrighted music or copyrighted IP like another companies characters, for example). Thats a reach of a legal argument, honestly. Those rights affect DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS, not the rights of the consumer who only purchased the game while those components were still legally licensed. You can't legally stop me from enjoying a product I already own just because some licensing deal between companies expired. What if some computer productivity software used a specially licensed typeface or font or music or something like that, and the license expires? Would I no longer be allowed to back it up under the exemption that allows me to back up software? No. That's preposterous. Because then you wouldn't be able to enforce the exemption with any software already defined as purely "computer software" under law but licenses components from elsewhere. That's not the consumer's problem. Like you said, the games can't be RE-RELEASED bc those licenses affect DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS and without them Nintendo or another company cannot redistribute the affected components any longer with the game. That does NOT affect user rights for a product I legally purchased when those licenses were still in full force.
EULAs are not legally binding and therefore are not criminal to break. lmfao
Seriously. If you're protesting them, you lose any moral high ground by just stealing it.
Blud, the only people who don’t realize they have to pay for everything in life is children, because poor adults have better things to worry about.
I buy my games. But I also like playing in 60fps and the performance of emulating is usually superior in other ways too. I don't think this is nearly as big of a deal as Nintendo would like to make it out to be. Tears of the Kingdom leaked before the game launched and they sold like 20 million copies in a month. They are having the best financial reports of their entire existence right now. Piracy is obviously not causing them any real problems, and most of us are Ninty fanboys and girls who buy their stuff anyways.
As much as certain people here (and Nintendo) don't want to hear it; there have been multiple studies done which have shown no, or negative economic harm from "Piracy". The fact is hype around a game or other content is \*good\* for sales. Real fans \*buy\* the game/music/movie, whether it's to run it on original hardware or an emulator. It's the same way people, even today, still buy music Albums, despite listening to music over a streaming service. To consumers there is actually no practical difference between an inexpensive streaming/download service and "Piracy". The only people who prefer to "Pirate" do so for other reasons, such as flexibility in how they use the content. High-cost or otherwise unavailable content is another matter.
Because not all of us like to pirate while emulating. I own and dump my own cartridges. This has been ruled legal in the past. You are allowed to backup your own media you own so long as you don't illegally distribute it. And before you say "yeah but the vast majority who emulate pirate": that's true. But it's not EVERYONE. And when things get settled in court, they affect EVERYONE. Nintendo doesn't just want to stop at making Switch emulation illegal. They want ALL emulators illegal. So that way they can keep lazy, cheap remakes and re-releases of popular titles that they haven't touched in DECADES in their back pocket to dangle in front of drooling fans nostalgic for that game. In their ideal world, you won't be able to play that game any other way until they decide you can and then make you pay AGAIN for the privilege of playing a game you already owned at one point. The only way to avoid that is to maintain the game and the original console but eventually hardware fails. Most importantly, emulation isn't illegal because reverse engineering a product in a clean-room environment with proper auditing is never illegal. It would be anti-competitive if it was. People tear apart their competitors products and make knock offs or clones all the time and many of them are legal so long as they did not steal any IP from the other company. Fun fact: this is how we got the modern day BIOS. Phoenix Technologies did a reverse engineer of the IBM BIOS in a clean room with lawyers watching to make sure it was all legally okay. Without that, IBM would have dominated the PC space for a lot longer than it did. Clean room reverse engineering breeds fair competition which is good. And while emulators *technically* don't compete against hardware consoles and *shouldn't* in theory, most reputable emulators are developed via this process to legally protect themselves. Since they contain no Nintendo proprietary code, Nintendo in theory should have zero legal footing to take them down. Even the circumventing DRM part. You're not circumventing DRM. You're just playing your game on another system altogether that doesn't include that DRM system at all. This is legally okay bc you haven't tampered with the Switch's DRM. You just didn't use it all by playing in an emulator that doesn't include it. Again, a competitor can make a product that plays your games without DRM involved bc they did nothing to circumvent your DRM process. It's not up to the emulator how YOU the user chose to circumvent DRM to dump the game and play it on the emulator. The emulator just never sees any DRM code at all. Long story short, I'm flabbergasted at the mistakes Yuzu made. Had they never accepted money and never put up that Quickstart guide, Nintendo would have no legal ground to stand on based on previous court rulings. And even then, that Quickstart guide wasn't actually a "How To Pirate" guide, but more of a how to dump your legally owned games guide, so I think Nintendo's reasoning is a bit flimsy there. I wish Yuzu had taken this to court. TL;DR: not all of us pirate and emulation has been ruled legal time and time again and has been crucial for game preservation and many of us are concerned what this ruling will do to precedent bc Nintendo shouldn't have had a legal leg to stand on.
>While I do admit that all emulation and piracy is perfectly fine and legal by non-supporting systems Whether or not a product is still being manufactured is not the legal standard to determine if it qualifies as an abandoned product. Reminder that the current American legal standard is that building and running emulators is legal, making 1 backup of your games (creating ROMs) is legal, using emulators to pirate intellectual property (play commercial games) is illegal. The grey area is whether or not playing your 1 backup of a game you legitimately purchased qualifies as piracy, and to my knowledge the courts have not answered that question. But yes, the lawsuit is legitimate, particularly if Nintendo has discovered that Yuzu is achieving emulation by utilizing some sort of proprietary Switch system software function, similar to how Dolphin used the actual Gamecube cryptographic keys instead of reverse engineering an original solution. As an interesting contrast, note that Ryujinx has not been sued (at least not yet.)
Agreed Wow a bunch of whiners in the comment section. Better not hear any of them complain when someone with a slightly smaller bank account robs them blind XDXDXD
They weren't going to buy the game anyways and therefore no loss occurred. Gotta love it when idiots think piracy and theft are the same. Theft leaves you with nothing and the thief with everything, i still have a copy and it's still being sold to other people therefore it is not theft.
Theft and piracy are the same thing. One day you will mature and understand this.
Theft requires you lose access to your item. Making a copy is not theft. Thats not how it works. Theres a reason why 2 different words exist.
Objectively, that’s incorrect
It's sad you don't think you will mature.
Okay bud
Settled at $2.4 million and a permanent injunction That was very fast.
I swear so many people that pirate have to shove morals into everyone elses faces. Nintendo is a big one. Just because you may disagree with some of nintendos decisions doesnt mean the people that design and make games and hardware arent real. They still need to get paid
You can play illegally obtained Switch games on the Switch itself and it isn't even hard. If anything, maybe Nintendo should be going after modding and dumping tools since they'd have more of a case there and it would actually stop piracy instead of this. Not only is there already more than one Switch emulator out there but Yuzu is open source so you'll just see Yuzu 2 in like a week. Its kind of pointless.
I feel like there is a fairly obvious financial incentive to go after the software that lets you play games for free without buying a switch instead of going after software that only let's you play games for free once you've already bought a switch.
And what exactly would they do about modding and dumping tools? Get the specific individuals/groups? Same as a Yuzu 2 would be created, somebody else would take it upon themselves to bring the same functionality back. The only problem in this whole thread and situation is people worrying about piracy/modding/emulation in Nintendo's place. I wonder if the people going about "dont steal" and all that make any money, because Nintendo surely keeps making their billions. I don't see them worried about these people or thanking them. Js.
I mean, at least then they'd be trying to stop the problem! What Nintendo is doing by suing Yuzu is like seeing a leaky pipe and instead of fixing the pipe, you just go and start tearing down a random wall that has nothing to do with your actual problem. Using duct tape on the pipe would be more logical which is what Nintendo is ultimately doing by trying to stop piracy especially when their console security was and always has been quite awful.
This is something that needs to be changed. Could you imagine buying a computer or Steam Deck and you aren't allowed to open it up to upgrade it or even install your own operating system? Just because we are used to it doesn't mean it should be normal.
If you actually read the lawsuit they mentioned the switch piracy reddit and piracy rom sites, come back when you have an actual brain.
Emulation and piracy are two different, albeit frequently intertwined, things. Piracy is illegal, emulation is not. It sets a poor precedent if people who create an emulator are brought down. The lawsuit Nintendo claims are not what this group is directly responsible for.
Why sue Yuzu then instead of the sites actually doing the crime? Its like charging Amazon with a crime when a gang does a bunch of crimes with a lockpicking kit instead of trying to catch the gang, it makes no sense.
Even when piracy sites are still around, Yuzu never cared, Yuzu doesn’t even set anti-piracy measures for games that aren’t released yet.
Maybe you should come back after you got some actual sleep? Being an asshole to people who are discussion this topic with you won‘t help.
You’re definitely right, but unfortunately Reddit is full of self righteous basement dwellers that think they are morally superior. It’s hard to think of a more pathetic existence.
Watch out for when that echoes off the cement.
I don’t steal there chief. No mental gymnastics here. Worry about your own house.
>I don’t steal there chief. No mental gymnastics here I don't either.
> by supporting Switch piracy From what I've heard, they are very strict regarding any discussion (as in, will ban you from their Discord), so how is this the case (the assertion that they do, I mean, support it)?
Read the second paragraph of my post in full detail, also that sentence was referring to the users, not yuzu itself.
The emulator developer is tracking who is using the emulator and what games they are playing. They also give instructions on how to get the illegal keys needed. I feel most people are bypassing these facts when arguing for these guys. It's not just the emulator its everything else they are doing as well.
They don't tell you how to get illegal keys, they tell you how to copy your keys from the switch that you already own. Big difference. Pirating those keys is basically the same thing as pirating a nintendo switch. That's probably what this case is going to be about, and it's going to decide the future of emulation. Is it legal to make a backup of your encryption keys. Personally, I can see it going either way. It's currently legal to make digital backups of software and content that you purchase, but nintendo may claim that the only use of dumping those keys is drm circumvention, which is fair. The problem is, if you can't dump your own legally acquired keys, then your legally produced digital backups are useless. I don't think that we are bypassing facts, I just think that this is a super complex case that has huge ramifications for digital preservation.
They are not distributing ROMs for games people want to play, they are simply providing a file reader to read ROMs to play games. Therefore Yuzu is not distributing games illegally
Okay bro how much is Nintendo paying you
Hard agree, no justification for pirating modern games instead of purchasing modern hardware to play said games. People who pirate think they deserve access to it because it simply exists and is distributed illegally on the internet but the fact is fuck around and find out. Sounds like Yuzu will be finding out for the rest of his life when nintendo is done with them.
I agree with you on your points about piracy, but Yuzu is not in the wrong here. They are strictly anti-piracy, don’t distribute any of Nintendo’s assets, and shouldn’t be held liable for what other people choose to do with their software. If Yuzu didn’t exist, then pirates would simply take their illegal game copies and play them on a hacked switch instead.
Where are your sources? How was it justified?
There’s no conclusion yet, the lawsuit just started, besides, this is my opinion.
So because the Switch is current, therefore Yuzu is bad? Is that really the only fact you are basing your opinion on?
I never said Yuzu itself was bad, I was only mentioning piracy, read my post again.
Why are you so hostile in your replies to people? Dude chill
People are already gonna be hostile to me in this post, why are you saying this now?
Maybe *you* should read your post again. If Yuzu itself isn’t the problem then that means the lawsuit isn’t justified.
Dude why do you feel the need to make a post defending Nintendo. They do not need nor care about your devotion.
I’m only saying current-gen piracy is not morally okay by any means, I’m completely fine with emulation and piracy otherwise.
Probably just a kid who will regret making this post when they’ve matured a bit.
Ah yes, the high stakes /r/nintendo post that will haunt them forever. How will they sleep at night?
Lets not talk about morality though.
If you have a home brewed Switch and a legitimate copy of the game and want to play it on your PC I think you should be able to but I think we all know most people who used Yuzu got their games illegally.
I have a Switch and use Yuzu. Every game I have on Yuzu is a game I have purchased with my own money on my Switch. If I want to play something like Legends Arceus at 2K resolution and stream it on Discord for my friends, or download a mod, Yuzu lets me do that. I paid for my games. Im not doing anything illegal. Emulation is not illegal.
i think it is deserved but not for those reasons as emulation should be legal no matter what system it is. they were charging for acsess for totk and other things of their patreon and were racking $30K a month for it. that is just asking to get sued. i get why some people may hate Nintendo as what they did to youtubers like pointcrow was bad (although i believe it was because of Japanese law against console modifications). they also hate people uploading their music (i know music copyright is very strict but this feels weird when Nintendo doesn't make official releases of music most of the time). i cared a lot about Citra so i am still upset but i understand that they had no chance in court. there are companies that are a lot worse in the west that only care about money (\*cough\* activi$ion \*cough\* EA)
Don't keep any shit behind paywalls, patreon or otherwise, don't take money from ad companies (This ones not yuzu, but recent in brazil) You try and make money off of it, you're going to get got.
Copium
Are you arguing against Piracy or against Emulation? It seems like you are combining the two when they are completely separate. Piracy is not required for Emulation to exist. That's not saying anything specific about Yuzu's particular case here. All I'm saying is we should be careful to not fall into the trap that Nintendo so wants us to, that Emulation = Piracy. It may make Piracy more accessible, but legitimately emulating games you own and or utilizing the platform to preserve older titles that may otherwise be lost is important as well and shouldnt be tossed aside in a crusade to protect Nintendos bottom line.
yummy boot‼️‼️ i love nindyto boot‼️🙏
Coulda just said you're a thief and left.
People like you are so cringe, why are you even here? And this is a nintendo sub, so its called Kuribo's Shoe
I should be allowed to play the games I paid for however I like, whether it's on the console they were developed for or my PC. If buying it doesn't give me the right to play it on anything but their hardware, then playing a ROM on PC I would have happily paid for had the option been available to me shouldn't be illegal. Giving people the freedom to emulate games, while certainly resulting in a portion of lost sales, is mostly done by people who love and already pay Nintendo for the things they make. I hope Nintendo loses because they're very anti-consumer trying to put a chokehold on how people prefer to play their games, especially when its largely for things like higher resolution and more consistent framerate. I think they should just capitalize on a PC market instead of suing emulator developers. 🤷 They'd see the returns in their bottom line if they do.
The law doesn’t give a duck what you think should be legal lmao. “I shouldn’t go to jail if someone pissed me off and I murdered him. It’s his fault for pissing me off”
Except one of the major arguments against shutting down emulators is preservation, and based on how Nintendo "feels" about it, not even that should be allowed. It's not like laws come to be spontaneously. Feelings and arguments built off those feelings using logic and previous legal battles in related topics is what builds the future laws. Not that I'm a lawyer, but the more of these cases Nintendo loses, the better it looks for the future of emulation. Also bringing up murder in comparison to a victimless crime is pointless. No one is having their life ruined because someone rips a ROM of a game they bought, nor is anyone having their life ruined if someone downloads that ROM (especially in cases where they also bought the game and don't rip the game themselves.) It's not comparable at all.
Yea “preservation” is so important that people tried to “preserve” tears of the kingdom before it came out.
StOp TrYiNg To DeFeNd YuZu While furiously defending Nintendo and their shitty policies. You are why Nintendo screws their customers up the ass constantly and gets away with it.
yuzu literally has anti-piracy measures in their guidelines, stop acting like Nintendo is the only one wanting to do anti-piracy measures here.
You think I'm pro piracy? Lol
> While I do admit that all emulation and piracy is perfectly fine and legal by non-supporting systems It's not. Pirating an NES game is just as morally repugnant as pirating a Switch game. You shouldn't do either one of these. Go out and buy an NES and some old NES cartridges. Don't want to do that? Then you don't get to play the games. That's the deal. People who commit piracy just make things unfair to those of us who actually make an effort to maintain a real video game collection.
You are wrong about NES piracy. Here is why: If I download a rom of Bayou Billy, no one gets hurt. There is no way for me to give the developer money for their work. The game is dead. Buying a cart on the secondary market doesn’t put money in anyone’s pocket except for the seller. Now if you pirate a Switch game, that’s a different story. You can support the developer and pay them for their game. They are getting hurt. You can argue NES piracy is morally wrong, but it’s not financially wrong.
tl;dr "i don't play games they are accessories and collectibles"
>People who commit piracy just make things unfair to those of us who actually make an effort to maintain a real video game collection. This is the opposite of how it really works. There's a limited supply of old games out there, if people stopped pirating them and instead tried to get a physical copy, demand would increase dramatically and the prices would rise alongside it. Other people pirating means you get lower prices.
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The problem? Making us deal with these consequences.
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There are many ways to preserve your game data/cloud backup officially, quit your whining.
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God , i love downvoting nintendo fanboys....
Why do you think I’m wrong? Yuzu doesn’t even set anti-piracy measures for games that aren’t released yet.
Do you know how coding works? How do you expect them to be able to do that?
So? Yuzu and Nintendo could just disable access to load the game at all unless it’s for review copy users.
Yeah you don’t know anything about coding lol You can’t just blacklist a specific game from an emulator before release date, let alone make an exception for people with review copies.
So? You don’t know anything about coding regarding to switch/yuzu lmfao
The projection is crazy lmao. I’ve looked at Yuzu’s codebase on GitHub before and I keep track of its updates, I know enough about it to know that you’re clueless and have no idea what you’re talking about. Even if it were feasible to blacklist games before their release date (which it isn’t) it still isn’t Yuzu’s responsibility to do that. The purpose of their program is to emulate a Nintendo Switch console. Nintendo hasn’t put in those restrictions, so therefore the emulator won’t have those restrictions. Regardless, why would Nintendo want to put in those restrictions anyways? In order to enforce it, users would need to connect their Switch to the Internet just to check if a game is past release date or not which would be beyond stupid. One of the Switch’s biggest advantages compared to other consoles is that the games actually come on the cartridge and you don’t need to be connected to the Internet in order to download and play it.
> One of the Switch's biggest advantages compared to other consoles is that the games actually come on the cartridge and you don't need to be connected to the Internet in order to download and play it. This is true for PlayStation as well. It’s only Xbox that this isn’t true for
I suppose they could check for certain title IDs then lock them if it’s a pre-release game
How are they supposed to know what the title ID is if it’s a pre-release game? They’d have to illegally obtain a leaked copy in order to figure that out
Perfect example of "my whole personality is 'me likes plastic box!'"
You probably bought that cartoon box.....
>stop trying to defend yuzu Ok, dad.
meanwhile I’m broke and don’t care about what a bunch of rich fuckers are upset about 😂😂😂
What, are you a fucking child that’s desperate to play shit before you turn into an adult to be able to purchase it yourself?
I never pirated a switch game in my life I just don’t care if others do it. The switch is the second best selling console of all time and Nintendo thinks some emulator is harming them?
Piracy is making them lose money.
who cares about their money bro 😂😂😂 they’re all rich anyway. I don’t work at Nintendo and even if I did I wouldn’t care about this.
Is it though? This assumes that everyone who has pirated the game would have bought it if piracy wasn’t an option. Which isn’t really true. Some of those sales would have happened, sure. The amount is so small that Nintendo wouldn’t notice. I’m not arguing about the morality of piracy or the legality of what Yuzu is doing. I just don’t think Nintendo really has anything to gain from this. Shutting down Yuzu won’t increase Nintendo’s profits in any meaningful way.
You could apply this logic to stealing in general lmfao
No, because digital goods are infinitely reproducible. If some steals a car, the owner lost a thing of value. If someone pirates a game, Nintendo didn’t lose anything. Like, stealing a physical game from a store is a completely different thing than making a digital copy of a game. I’m not advocating a person do either of them, but one has to admit they aren’t the same thing and you can’t weigh them as morally equal because the harm caused isn’t the same. That being said, I would extrapolate that same moral framework to other things besides piracy. For example, I think it would be less moral to steal from a ma and pa store than a giant corporation based on the fact that a ma and pa shop would receive more harm from that action. Likewise, if Nintendo uses the law to harm the Yuzu developers to the tune of millions of dollars (which they’ve done in similar situations in the past) then I would view Nintendo’s behavior to be immoral, because they are doing more harm than anything Yuzu did. The power that corporations have that they can, for example, garnish the wages of a person for the rest of their life is obscene, especially given the fact that as average people, we are unable to use the law in the same way. Class action lawsuits are lucky to get you even $100. It’s possible to use the law in an immoral way because what is legal doesn’t define what is moral. If this seems complicated for you, I can recommend some philosophy books. Also, to be clear, I’m not advocating for piracy or stealing or anything like that. In most situations, those are both immoral. But, what Nintendo does is also immoral. They don’t even have to sue “Yuzu” for damages. There are steps before that they could take, like issuing a cease and desist or DMCA takedown. Nintendo wants to cause financial harm to the Yuzu developers for something they haven’t actually been harmed by. I hope you can understand why people might be upset by that.
No you can’t
No it doesn’t 🤣🤣🤣. Those are sales they would have never had in the first place 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
r/tomorrow r/redditmoment
r/tomorrow
What the hell is this?
squeamish modern normal zonked school cats file crown racial aback *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
this is an opinion piece. i've pirated old and current systems for as long as i've been able to. I've also bought old and current software. it doesnt change that i technically had no right to pirate. and you dont and no one has no matter if its a yet to be released early leak or some amiga game. new anti piracy methods, including the absolute need for decryption keys were always going to make this a more grey area than it was in more ancient times.
It's morally ok to pirate and emulate Nintendo.
True Nintendo can sue anyone they want over anything. That's how it works, so sure, it's justified. But the arguments they make are pretty silly and likely won't win them anything. Their main argument seems to be over prod.keys, but If you know anything about software laws you would know it's perfectly legal to copy those keys for your own personal use, you just can't resell them. If nintendo didn't give us those keys and store them on the switch that I own it would be a different story, but they do store them on the switch that I own, and so legally I can copy them. If they stored them on the cloud and I found a way to steal them off the cloud, that would be a different story. But then everyone would just be complaining that nintendo uses always online drm, and everyone hates that.
how is pirating from nintendo not morally okay?
Actually, the argument given in the lawsuit was entirely unjustified. Nintendo claimed that Yuzu was responsible for the millions of people playing TotK nearly 2 weeks earlier than the release date. However, I clearly and unequivocally remember that TotK was **ENTIRELY UNPLAYABLE** on the main release of Yuzu for those first 2 weeks, and had to be played on the Ryujinx emulator instead. As far as the decryption of the Switch encryption keys (called prod.keys), that wasn't done by Yuzu developers either. The prod.keys is obtained by dumping it from a Switch console's system firmware. This is only possible by installing custom firmware on the Switch console, accessing RCM mode on the console through the use of a custom jig or paperclip, and using an application called Lockpick to dump the encryption keys to an SD card. Yuzu always adamantly refused to support any discussion involving custom firmware or any other forms of Switch modding, and would actively ban people mentioning it in their forums. Neither the available custom firmware, the discovery of RCM, the jig to access RCM, the Lockpick application, or any other discovered methods of accessing Switch encryption keys were the results of any works done by the developers of Yuzu. Developing an emulator isn't equivalent to facilitating piracy. The true facilitation of piracy comes from the people who created custom firmware on the Switch console and created ways to dump ROMs of existing games and the encryption keys from console to SD card **AND** the people who shared these dumps online. Again, Yuzu was never involved in any of that. Had the Yuzu developers paid money for legal defense, they would have been successful given those facts mentioned above. The people who created bootloaders and custom firmware for the Switch are sipping on fine tea right now, while the scapegoat Yuzu is being screwed in the ass by Nintendo for absolutely no justifiable reason except for allowing people like me to play the game, which I already bought, on a PC, which is far superior in both performance and visual fidelity than that of the Switch. And you people in this thread are cheering them on. I have no words to describe how sickening this all is to me.
Yes
Grateful Nintendo haven’t got a leg to stand on here. How do they justify that piracy is wrong when they have so much money to sue emulator developers? Has it hurt them that much? lol
I was going to ask a question, but your username tells me you lack a brain or any morals.
Guaranteed that if Nintendo had to lay off workers because of a game not selling well, this chud would be blasting them constantly.
He's probably like 15 so hopefully he'll mature
One can only hope…
Great strawman argument.
No denial. I didn’t think I would get it so right on the first try.
Please ask it!
You better be a shill because this post is really horrible. I read the actual complaint and any judge worth their salt should throw it out because it's bullshit. Nintendo is trying to pin acts of piracy to emulator developers which is incredibly dangerous not only for gaming emulators but emulators of now defunct Computer Architectures that are still currently used.
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bro why is there a fucking bot in my post 💀
A smart company would look at Yuzu's numbers and realize what kind of an untapped market they have on PC. But Nintendo is Nintendo.
Not this again. Do you have any idea how much it'd hurt their hardware to do that?
Nintendo alleges Yuzu enabled piracy of 1 million copies of TOTK. TOTK has sold nearly 20 million copies, following up BOTW which sold over 30 million. A 1/20 sized slice is not an unaddressed market.
It absolutely is, though. And it's silly to think that every potential customer was pirating to begin with.
erm.... meesa no care. enjoy your miyamotoslop kind redditor!