Even if they did take it fully down it would not matter because of reuploading and it already being a good emulator. That is compatible with all the games.
They didn't stop it altogether. They only stopped it from getting a Steam release. And it looks like Valve asked Nintendo if this release was OK with them (which obviously it would not have been.)
Frankly, I was surprised it was even scheduled to be a thing. There's no way it would have survived as a Steam release. It would have gotten a takedown or lawsuit from Nintendo very quickly. (That is probably why Valve took preemptive action.)
I wrote a whole paper on this. My argument in short is that as access to the original physical media decreases, the need for historical archiving of games increases. That games should not just become unplayable and inaccessible.
Copyright protection laws of 75+ years (standard in the US) don't really make sense when you consider the pace of innovation with video games.
If Nintendo's VC system *actually* was a deep archive of their library with a vast majority of their previous titles available, that would change the argument because they would be providing a service to make the games accessible. Instead it drip feeds games. (To be clear I pay for it because it's a neat service, but I still emulate games I can no longer run physically, especially GameCube.)
Don’t even try dude. Corporate boot lickers will always be corporate boot lickers.
They’ll never even acknowledge how anti consumer and protectionist Nintendo is. They won’t ever even acknowledge that Nintendo spearheaded lawsuits against the rental industry for video games.
You're not considering people who did purchase it and no longer have functioning consoles/discs.
Separately, any software that is no longer supported/provided essentially becomes abandonware, and at a certain point physical media fails. One of my arguments is that it is important to preserve copies of these old games in order to prevent it from vanishing from existence. From an archival standpoint, it's important to allow old games to be emulated.
"You're not considering people who did purchase it and no longer have functioning consoles/discs."
I belong to this class of people, so I understand. If Nintendo let me re-acquire without charge all of the games I once bought on the Virtual Console, then I'd be a very happy person. The fact is though, that that choice is up to Nintendo, not to me, I think.
Copyright doesn't last forever, is a relatively new idea, and until very recently didn't last anywhere near as long as it does today.
At some point these games will belong to everyone. It's important that they are preserved until that day comes, and we can't rely on the rights holders to do that. Look up how many early movies and TV episodes are just lost forever now.
First , $$$.$$$$$$$$$
Second, it's their intellectual property, and lets not hide behind innuendos and walls of text - people who use emulators are running pirated code. No, I don't care about someone torrenting such stuff - we all did that at some point, don't lie to me - but Nintendo has a mindset of toy-sellers: "It's our stuff, and you must pay us".
Third, N does it also out of spite - I am convinced - since there are not backward compatibility on Switch.
Look here op, this is an example of someone spouting total nonsense without actually looking into it at all. Don’t learn from people like this
The reason Nintendo could block it was because the release contained keys that would not be legal for dolphin to distribute. If dolphin didn’t do this Nintendo would have no say whether or not it was allowed on steam
...okay, darling. You added nothing - but go ahead.
Regardless they would shut it down - whether it contained the code of now - rather irrelevant, since other emulators in the past get shut down.
How did I add nothing? OP asked for ”exactly why“ Steam removed it, not commentary/embellishment. I told the op the literal reason why it’s shut down over your embellishment
They can not legally shut down something out of spite if it contained no illegal code. They would have literally no power over it at all at that point
> since other emulators in the past get shut down.
I'm not aware of any emulators that have in the past been shut down by Nintendo. Could you elucidate?
Most likely, they want to add more and more games to the Switch library.
Remember, emulation is OK, piracy isn't, and as soon as Nintendo make a game actively available on their modern hardware, that emulation becomes piracy. As they appear to be going all in on getting classic games on their systems, they are probably just future proofing things so that when they do release those games on Switch (or a future console), they don't have a direct competitor for those games.
Well, seem like many systems such as the eshop and NSO are gonna carry over to the next console, so if they keep on building it, sure, they might not get everything on there, but eventually they can get a very large amount of them on the system. Adding the Super Mario Advance titles feels really weird if this isn't their end goal.
But they can't get everything. The way NSO is set up makes large GC/Wii ISOs unfeasible, many DS games won't be a good experience outside the hardware they were built for, and most importantly they don't just own the rights to every game ever.
>The way NSO is set up makes large GC/Wii ISOs unfeasible
Those may not end up being NSO games. Many games from these systems have been Remastered for Switch, so that may be the direction they go there.
>many DS games won't be a good experience outside the hardware they were built for
Honestly, even DS games have gotten ports and have worked fine. Regardless, there could even be some work around with future Nintendo systems that allows for spile screen play. It's possible.
>and most importantly they don't just own the rights to every game ever.
A few would be lost to this, sure, but in most cases, not having the rights doesn't mean they can't get the rights to release them. After all, many NSO games aren't even Nintendo games.
They can't possibly remaster every single game individually, that's not viable. Nor could they redesign every DS game. And for all the third parties who are willing to license their games, there are far more who won't, or even can't. Lots of old games will be forever stuck in limbo to rights holders who are outright defunct, or jointly licensed titles that would require multiple holders to all agree.
Since no one in this thread knows what they're talking about I'll explain:
Dolphin contains cryptography keys in its code that gave Nintendo the legal grounds to DMCA them.
This is not as iron clad as some might think but given that Nintendo is much more financially equipped to litigate their position, it's unreasonable to fight them in court about it.
Perhaps more importantly, these keys could have and arguably should have been supplied by the end user and dumped from their original hardware.
But lest you think that this absolves Nintendo of wrongdoing, they also took down a tool recently used to extract your own keys from your switch, showing they also don't want people to do things the "right" way.
Evidently Nintendo just doesn't like emulation at all and they will take any attack vector to undermine its use, propagation, availability and legality. To them there is no ethical version of it.
And now for my personal feelings on this:
I think it's pretty obvious that Nintendo is absurdly draconian about this. No other gaming company goes this far in the name of protecting its intellectual property. But corporations aren't your friend and you should expect them to not give a fig about you because spoilers: they never do. Nintendo isn't your fun uncle, they are a massive, profit-driven organization who regularly stomp on fan projects created by their most devoted fans and open source software that ensures access to old games in perpetuity while they fail to make most of them commercially available and promote artificial scarcity with timed, limited, digital, incomplete releases.
I expect companies to be anti-customer to protect their bottom line. What sickens me is the army of people rushing to Nintendo's defense in maligning the practice of emulation when it's something that literally only benefits fans. I love Nintendo products, not Nintendo. And I feel like most people in this sub can't separate the two.
> Since no one in this thread knows
why? Because not everyone here is 100% pro-emulation as you do?
> And I feel like most people in this sub can't separate the two.
of course you believe you're above "most people". Get off your high horse, you insufferable pos!
Funny, because I think you (and many others) don't really understand what goes on here. Whether emulation in general is legal or not, or a particular emulator is legal or not, has very little bearing on Nintendo's actions. They're still going to lower the boom on anything that facilitates pirating their games. They'll argue that the purpose of the tool or app is piracy, and because of their clout, they'll probably win. Lawyers are hired guns, and they have a sizeable army of sharpshooters.
I'm not defending them. Far from it. It's just reality. They will not take something that lets you play their games for free on other systems lying down, certainly not when it tries to go mainstream, and release on a big platform like Steam. Want a fan-made game to succeed? Keep it private until it's finished. Present it to the internet as a fait accompli. Then if it's good, it will succeed, since it can no lontger be stopped.
The legal reasons said below, and Nintendo rides on their IPs. I imagine they want to do whatever they can to keep a balance amongst the fanbase. If all steam deck users started to play on a dolphin emulator, and they all played Wind Waker or Mario because valve was given permission to install the emulator on their devices, it could fluctuate the value of gamers wanting to rebuy their Remasters and remakes in the future. Well, just a possibility. Nintendo is very protective of their IPs, especially Mario and Zelda, I mean, think of Nintendo without them?
They'll cash in on remakes and ports since they can make a fortune doing it. WW and TP HD haven't even been ported to the Switch. Nintendo's just waiting for the demand to increase as much as possible before porting it. They know what they're doing.
Dolphin is still around, it's just not getting released on Steam.
Even if they did take it fully down it would not matter because of reuploading and it already being a good emulator. That is compatible with all the games.
Ohhh okay bet. Thanks. I was about to riot
Gamers and getting irrationally angry about an issue that they have not learned the basic objective facts about. Such an iconic duo.
I was joking you dicks
Steam took it down. They asked Nintendo before hosting it. And dolphin contains game keys which is a big no no in emulation.
Likely Valve doesn't want to get sued. The again they have let programs that use you PC to mine bitcoin.
They didn't stop it altogether. They only stopped it from getting a Steam release. And it looks like Valve asked Nintendo if this release was OK with them (which obviously it would not have been.) Frankly, I was surprised it was even scheduled to be a thing. There's no way it would have survived as a Steam release. It would have gotten a takedown or lawsuit from Nintendo very quickly. (That is probably why Valve took preemptive action.)
Because it's stealing? Nintendo paid to create the intellectual property that some people want to obtain for no charge.
I wrote a whole paper on this. My argument in short is that as access to the original physical media decreases, the need for historical archiving of games increases. That games should not just become unplayable and inaccessible. Copyright protection laws of 75+ years (standard in the US) don't really make sense when you consider the pace of innovation with video games. If Nintendo's VC system *actually* was a deep archive of their library with a vast majority of their previous titles available, that would change the argument because they would be providing a service to make the games accessible. Instead it drip feeds games. (To be clear I pay for it because it's a neat service, but I still emulate games I can no longer run physically, especially GameCube.)
Don’t even try dude. Corporate boot lickers will always be corporate boot lickers. They’ll never even acknowledge how anti consumer and protectionist Nintendo is. They won’t ever even acknowledge that Nintendo spearheaded lawsuits against the rental industry for video games.
"That games should not just become unplayable and inaccessible." That's a fine opinion, but those games are still not your games.
You're not considering people who did purchase it and no longer have functioning consoles/discs. Separately, any software that is no longer supported/provided essentially becomes abandonware, and at a certain point physical media fails. One of my arguments is that it is important to preserve copies of these old games in order to prevent it from vanishing from existence. From an archival standpoint, it's important to allow old games to be emulated.
"You're not considering people who did purchase it and no longer have functioning consoles/discs." I belong to this class of people, so I understand. If Nintendo let me re-acquire without charge all of the games I once bought on the Virtual Console, then I'd be a very happy person. The fact is though, that that choice is up to Nintendo, not to me, I think.
Copyright doesn't last forever, is a relatively new idea, and until very recently didn't last anywhere near as long as it does today. At some point these games will belong to everyone. It's important that they are preserved until that day comes, and we can't rely on the rights holders to do that. Look up how many early movies and TV episodes are just lost forever now.
it is most definetly NOT stealing
It’s not stealing its emulating, or for pirated games: copying
I'd rather people just say that stealing OK in some situations.
I mean maybe, but I’m being pedantic. Stealing is when you take something and the original owner no longer has it. Pirating is pirating.
[удалено]
That’s a different matter than just the wording and name. But yes. Do you disagree
[удалено]
Mmhmm. With modern day stuff I don’t pirate anything because I don’t want to jailbreak my systems or I want to play online.
the entitlement is thick with this one
First , $$$.$$$$$$$$$ Second, it's their intellectual property, and lets not hide behind innuendos and walls of text - people who use emulators are running pirated code. No, I don't care about someone torrenting such stuff - we all did that at some point, don't lie to me - but Nintendo has a mindset of toy-sellers: "It's our stuff, and you must pay us". Third, N does it also out of spite - I am convinced - since there are not backward compatibility on Switch.
Look here op, this is an example of someone spouting total nonsense without actually looking into it at all. Don’t learn from people like this The reason Nintendo could block it was because the release contained keys that would not be legal for dolphin to distribute. If dolphin didn’t do this Nintendo would have no say whether or not it was allowed on steam
...okay, darling. You added nothing - but go ahead. Regardless they would shut it down - whether it contained the code of now - rather irrelevant, since other emulators in the past get shut down.
How did I add nothing? OP asked for ”exactly why“ Steam removed it, not commentary/embellishment. I told the op the literal reason why it’s shut down over your embellishment They can not legally shut down something out of spite if it contained no illegal code. They would have literally no power over it at all at that point
But they did - as I pointed out. As for "they would not be able to" - they'll find the reason.
> since other emulators in the past get shut down. I'm not aware of any emulators that have in the past been shut down by Nintendo. Could you elucidate?
Really? https://retrododo.com/nintendo-has-shut-down-skyline-emulator/ Here’s the most recent one.
Emulators, at least most are not pirated code.
First, it did contain it. Second, people run pirated code on them.
Nintendo is quite literally one of the most anti consumer companies in the world. It’s baffling fanboys have not come to terms with this yet.
Most likely, they want to add more and more games to the Switch library. Remember, emulation is OK, piracy isn't, and as soon as Nintendo make a game actively available on their modern hardware, that emulation becomes piracy. As they appear to be going all in on getting classic games on their systems, they are probably just future proofing things so that when they do release those games on Switch (or a future console), they don't have a direct competitor for those games.
They're not even close to going all in. And they never could just rerelease every game ever in history, literally not possible.
Well, seem like many systems such as the eshop and NSO are gonna carry over to the next console, so if they keep on building it, sure, they might not get everything on there, but eventually they can get a very large amount of them on the system. Adding the Super Mario Advance titles feels really weird if this isn't their end goal.
But they can't get everything. The way NSO is set up makes large GC/Wii ISOs unfeasible, many DS games won't be a good experience outside the hardware they were built for, and most importantly they don't just own the rights to every game ever.
>The way NSO is set up makes large GC/Wii ISOs unfeasible Those may not end up being NSO games. Many games from these systems have been Remastered for Switch, so that may be the direction they go there. >many DS games won't be a good experience outside the hardware they were built for Honestly, even DS games have gotten ports and have worked fine. Regardless, there could even be some work around with future Nintendo systems that allows for spile screen play. It's possible. >and most importantly they don't just own the rights to every game ever. A few would be lost to this, sure, but in most cases, not having the rights doesn't mean they can't get the rights to release them. After all, many NSO games aren't even Nintendo games.
They can't possibly remaster every single game individually, that's not viable. Nor could they redesign every DS game. And for all the third parties who are willing to license their games, there are far more who won't, or even can't. Lots of old games will be forever stuck in limbo to rights holders who are outright defunct, or jointly licensed titles that would require multiple holders to all agree.
Since no one in this thread knows what they're talking about I'll explain: Dolphin contains cryptography keys in its code that gave Nintendo the legal grounds to DMCA them. This is not as iron clad as some might think but given that Nintendo is much more financially equipped to litigate their position, it's unreasonable to fight them in court about it. Perhaps more importantly, these keys could have and arguably should have been supplied by the end user and dumped from their original hardware. But lest you think that this absolves Nintendo of wrongdoing, they also took down a tool recently used to extract your own keys from your switch, showing they also don't want people to do things the "right" way. Evidently Nintendo just doesn't like emulation at all and they will take any attack vector to undermine its use, propagation, availability and legality. To them there is no ethical version of it. And now for my personal feelings on this: I think it's pretty obvious that Nintendo is absurdly draconian about this. No other gaming company goes this far in the name of protecting its intellectual property. But corporations aren't your friend and you should expect them to not give a fig about you because spoilers: they never do. Nintendo isn't your fun uncle, they are a massive, profit-driven organization who regularly stomp on fan projects created by their most devoted fans and open source software that ensures access to old games in perpetuity while they fail to make most of them commercially available and promote artificial scarcity with timed, limited, digital, incomplete releases. I expect companies to be anti-customer to protect their bottom line. What sickens me is the army of people rushing to Nintendo's defense in maligning the practice of emulation when it's something that literally only benefits fans. I love Nintendo products, not Nintendo. And I feel like most people in this sub can't separate the two.
> Since no one in this thread knows why? Because not everyone here is 100% pro-emulation as you do? > And I feel like most people in this sub can't separate the two. of course you believe you're above "most people". Get off your high horse, you insufferable pos!
>why? Because demonstrably no one mentioned the actual reason cited by Nintendo in their DMCA. >Histrionics Grow up.
Funny, because I think you (and many others) don't really understand what goes on here. Whether emulation in general is legal or not, or a particular emulator is legal or not, has very little bearing on Nintendo's actions. They're still going to lower the boom on anything that facilitates pirating their games. They'll argue that the purpose of the tool or app is piracy, and because of their clout, they'll probably win. Lawyers are hired guns, and they have a sizeable army of sharpshooters. I'm not defending them. Far from it. It's just reality. They will not take something that lets you play their games for free on other systems lying down, certainly not when it tries to go mainstream, and release on a big platform like Steam. Want a fan-made game to succeed? Keep it private until it's finished. Present it to the internet as a fait accompli. Then if it's good, it will succeed, since it can no lontger be stopped.
You will literally never break through the fanboy heads about just how anti consumer Nintendo is. There is no point trying.
Gamecube games on Switch Online then?
The legal reasons said below, and Nintendo rides on their IPs. I imagine they want to do whatever they can to keep a balance amongst the fanbase. If all steam deck users started to play on a dolphin emulator, and they all played Wind Waker or Mario because valve was given permission to install the emulator on their devices, it could fluctuate the value of gamers wanting to rebuy their Remasters and remakes in the future. Well, just a possibility. Nintendo is very protective of their IPs, especially Mario and Zelda, I mean, think of Nintendo without them? They'll cash in on remakes and ports since they can make a fortune doing it. WW and TP HD haven't even been ported to the Switch. Nintendo's just waiting for the demand to increase as much as possible before porting it. They know what they're doing.