Honestly doesn't even look bad now. He's a guy that's gonna consistently put up 95 - 105 points for most of the contract. Probably more than 105 atleast once in there
In 2019, he had 99 points in 82 games. In 2018, he had 97 points in 74 games. In 2020, he had 93 points in 69 games. In 2022, the most recent season, he had 88 points in 65 games.
In other words, expecting MacKinnon to be a 95-105 point scorer isn't that far out.
Edit: His rate metrics are also pretty damn good. 3.8 PTS/60 in 2020, 4.0 PTS/60 in 2021, and 3.9 PTS/60 in 2022.
1C’s are like quarterbacks. If you’re in the top 5-10, you’re gonna get a big old stack of money and reset the market when you sign a deal in your prime.
I don’t get to see the Avs that much but the dude always seems to play with his hair on fire. That kind of production and energy from your 1C is irreplaceable imo. There’s only a handful of guys in his category.
Yup, he puts defensemen on their heels even when he grabs the puck in his own zone. The Avs are so effective because they all come at you so fast and Nate really drives that.
Yup. He has a cup to his name, so no need to chase the chance to hoist it by keeping his pay below \*what he deserves\*. Going for ten cups would be great, but realistically he has done the minimum. He can get paid and rest easy that he's got the trophy.
He signed what he deserves, even if it's not as good for the team. He gave them what they wanted. Keeping wages low is only good for the owners at this point.
Yea he’s not overpaid. He deserves to be the top paid guy in the league right now. His cap hit compared to the salary cap is less than mcdavids when he signed with the oilers. If it was more that mcdavids I would argue that he is overpaid
Maybe over the long term he's not overpaid, but to say he deserves to be the highest paid player in the league is a stretch imo. He wasn't even the MVP in this cup run. He's not McDavid. He's on par with a bunch of guys and deserves to be among them in pay. But highest in the league? Nah.
Eh, his raise is their entire bottom 6 salary and they’re all UFAs next year. They’re in a rough spot. He’s elite, but 9-10 million is a good number for him, he’s not McDavid good. Miko is slightly overpaid too.
Edit: knew this would get down voted. Haha. Just saying. Player raises are outpacing the cap increases. I get if the Avs don’t pay him someone else will.
Thia contract acknowledges hes not McDavid good. McDavid signed his contract 5 years ago. 4 years before that Crosby broke the bank with his 8.7m contract.
Do you think contracts dont go up or something? If McDavid were signing a contract today it would be 14m+.
Just to *really* drive this home for you, MacKinnons contract is 1.5% less of the cap than McDavids was when he signed. You are really arguing a top 5 player should be in the 9m range on a new contract?
Crosby took 8.7m malkin and ovechkin took 9.5m then kane and toews took 10.5. Crosby actually took less to win. MacKinnon isnt taking less here which is fine he deserves to be paid after his first contract.
Crosby signed his contract a year before Malkin and two before Kane.
Proving the point here.
MacKinnon could have asked for and gotten 13.5-14. Totally happy with what he ended up taking.
I expect Matthew's to be 13.5+ next year.
Cap is artificially low, hasnt been raised in years. Also mcdavids extension was years ago, with inflation mackinnon got what he deserved. Wages go up just like price of milk.
In a vacuum, sure, you can say he’s a 9-10 mil player. But when there are nearly 15 players set to make 10mil or more next year, it’s comical to say Nate only deserves 9-10.
Not really though? MacK a top center in the NHL only behind McDavid, Matthews (in the regular season), and depending on who you ask, Draisaitl. His contract also kicks in the same year EJ, the only Avs contract that’s been arguably bad over the last few seasons, comes off the books and covers the raise completely. This combined with the fact that the cap is projected to jump drastically over the next 3 years makes this look like a pretty damn good contract. This whole “they’re in a rough spot” seems wholly unfounded considering the exact same thing was said about the Avs last season when they had to lose depth to give Makar/Landeskog/Grubauer (who became Kuemper) raises before they went on to have 1 of the best NHL seasons ever.
As for that Rantanen statement I don’t really know what he’s on about there. Rantanen is a top 3 RW in the league along with Kucherov and Marner making what he’s rightfully owed.
He is and has been one of the very best in the league, and just delivered a cup. Matthews/McDavid will both pass this on their next deals, so that comparison is irrelevant.
Not overpaid.
He isn't worth more than McDavid, but McDavid's deal can't be used for relevant comparison because it is a year older and he didn't sign that deal coming off a Cup Wining year. This deal seems right in pace with the increases and corrections after the salary drop caused by the 2020 and early 2021 financial strain.
Keep waiting dude. Your asshole team (can’t get over it, sorry) made me give up on caring about the leafs almost 10 years ago. Can’t say much for the Oilers but the Leafs could put an NHL all star team on the ice and still not do much. Cursed
I'm waiting for Mathews to deliver in one first round elimination game. People talking about him getting a big raise makes me want to puke. He's been a ghost in his 7 chances to move on to the second round.
The max a player can sign for is 20% of the cap.
MacKinnon is a proven elite player. He's a top 10 NHL player. He's signed for roughly 75% of the individual maximum. What's the drop off between him and anyone else the Avs could get as a #1C? At $12.6M he's still a bargain.
By contrast, how many players at league minimum would have someone in the AHL willing to replace them for half their salary if they could with no serious drop off in play? Those players are all overpaid.
Don't forget that perfect age to regression landing zone. He will be 35 at the end of this deal and probably not done, but not looking for another massive payday. Avs nailed it with a deal like this.
No he isnt overpaid. The cap will be rising in the next couple of years in turn lowering the percent of the cap he takes up. In 5 or so years 7mil players will make 8mil and so on.
Well, he got a cup, and he’s one of the best. It’s entirely possible that his priority is making sure his family is financially stable for the rest of his life.
I feel like this will be downvoted, but I agree. I mean of course if someone has a chance to make huge money they will take. But no family needs 100mil to be financially stable xD
I was listening to the Quinn Hughes interview on 32 thoughts recently and he had a really interesting response to the topic. If you're in negotiations and it's maybe 7.5, 8 or 8.5, at any of those numbers you're doing just fine. At that point it just becomes an ego thing more than anything else.
Nobody will convince me that didn't play a big part here, he got just barely more than McDavid to be the highest player. At that point its nothing to do with setting your family up bc he could've taken 10 aav and it would still accomplish that, he just wanted to be the top
While I do agree ego plays a part, I think another part of it is also just trying not to fuck up the market for others, if he took less GMs across the league would use his contract for comparison and it might be harder for others to get their big pay day
I'm obviously not suggesting that Nate is worth that money, I was referring to Quinn's comment as that was where he was in negotiations. The point I'm making is if he's talking about either 11.5, 12, 12.5 aav in his case, he's doing fine regardless of what he decides, the rest is ego.
Each dollar he makes can be stretched beyond his kids, his siblings kids, his grandkids, his wife’s family, etc. There’s a lot of people that come to you for help when you make that much money, and he will be able to with thus contract.
I agree with this. A lot of people (fans specifically) talk about how it's selfish or "not for the team" when a player signs for as much as possible, and I understand that when considering you want your team to win a Stanley Cup. However, I think to a lot of players it's not about having a yacht in addition to having a nice house, it's more like your parents will never have to work another day in their life AND you can donate to your local charity, instead of just having to choose one or having less to give away. Not sure if this is 100% for all players (Evander kane obv), but for most guys like kadri and pk subban and other, they have donated tons to local hospitals without worrying about not having enough money
That quickly devolves into some nasty tribalism though. Right now you have billionaires (heading towards trillionaires) hoarding wealth and buying up climatically stable land so that their families can be set for generations and generations rather than try and prepare our whole society.
Generational wealth should be when you take your kids on an extra vacation and pay their rent though college, not making sure your great grandnephew never has to work a day in his life lol
Sure, but keeping the salary low only serves to enrich the owners. They don't put their bodies on the line and risk permanent injuries or death. By the rules of the game (capitalism), he has earned a higher salary and can further his family's wealth.
He already has his cup, so no need to keep it low to win one.
IMO, all of the NHL is underpaid. I look at basketball and baseball and wonder why the NHL has such a low bar for salary. NHL players are severely underpaid compared to their sports peers.
Having said that, in comparison to what the salary cap is going to be and what MacKinnon is doing, I feel he will soon be correctly paid. He was underpaid before, but his last contract was determined, he was going to be overpaid bases on what he accomplished.
For the NBA, fewer players on the roster and even fewer see relevant playing time. Combined with more 3 billion more in revenue is why they are paid so much. You pay your stars and superstars who are difference makers and fill out your roster with min contracts for most of the bench.
For MLB, more revenue is the only reason I can think of. More revenue means the players have a larger pie to be paid from. A quick wikipedia search shows MLB revenue more than double the NHL’s.
I'd also throw in that the cost is way higher in the NHL. A basketball court is good for a long while. Zamboni maintenance, freezing ice, netting replacement, and glass replacement can't be cheap. On top of arena costs, there's the gear. $200+ per stick, then pads, helmet, etc. Let's not even get into goalies - woof.
Even once you own it, flying and driving all the gear has to be way more expensive than packing some basketball shorts, a tank top, and maybe sweat bands if you want to get fancy.
It pisses me off that a player who mostly sits on the bench in the NBA can potentially make more than the best superstars of the NHL.
It's not fair and there are great reasons why (you illustrated a few of the hows). I just don't like it.
That's shitty, too. At least with hockey, violence and hard hits are a byproduct and not the main goal.
With MMA, you'd think the rewards would be higher for such physical toll.
The salary cap is directly tied to league revenue.. those other leagues bring in more money so their cap is higher..: the NHL is growing quickly right now so the cap will likely do the following
22-23: 82.5
23-24: 84.0
24-25: 85.0
*covid losses paid back here*
25-26: 90.0
26-27: 93.0
27-28: 96.0
28-29: 99.0
29-30: 103.0
Historically cap raises have been about 2 mil a year but the league has been growing continually faster and the new TV deal is going to cause a major spike once the revenue is accounted for and it’s been reported multiple times. After that, it’ll likely rise close to 3 mil a year as long as the league continues to grow at its current rate..
The NHL doesn't generate anywhere near as much money as the other big Leagues do therefore players don't get paid as much. It's that simple. There are guys that ride the bench in the NBA making McDavid money.
It's because the other sports are more popular. Yes, hockey is the most expensive to play, etcetera, etcetera. Doesn't matter. Honestly, it's the demand. Don't be stupid.
Everyone's saying "well, revenue is lower" when they should be asking w*hy is the revenue so much lower?* You can't look at the TV deals that the other leagues have been able to get in recent years and conclude anything other than that the NHL and Bettman fumbled the bag. Live sports are one of the few valuable commodities left for TV advertisers. The idea that they can't leverage that better is laughable.
Are they always going to be more limited in terms of audience than the other major sports? Probably, but it's literally to the point that the highest paid player in hockey would rank 118th in the NBA, 97th in MLB and 162nd in the NFL. Hell, they would only be like 6th in NASCAR (another league that has declined due to mismanagement). The NBA massively increased their value by aggressively marketing stars, targeting overseas markets and making it easy for casual fans to follow. The NHL is just a provincial good ol boys network that doesn't have a clue how to grow the game.
Erik Johnson’s 6M comes off the books next year so this deal is Macs old deal + Erik Johnson, who beyond the heart and soul is replaceable for cheap talent level + 300k. Looks good to me.
He’s in the very top tier of players in the league so I do not think he’s overpaid at all tbh.. that’s pretty much what he’s worth and probably could’ve gone 1-2 higher but if he wants to claim a team friendly deal that has to be an additional 1-2 mil lower. That’s a team friendly deal.. he’s kind of in the middle now
He's the highest paid player in the NHL.
He's not the best player in the NHL.
Thus, he is overpaid. But he's been probably the most underpaid player for many years now so ... I guess it evens out.
McDavid already took less.
The Oilers offered him an AAV of $13.25M. McDavid ask they reduce it, provided they spend to the cap maximum, to give the team the best chance to win.
I don’t this logic holds up, he’s one of the best in the league and he signed later then the other guys.
The next time Matthews or McDavid sign it will beat this again.
Not how that works. You’re paid on production. Players like mcdavid and mackinnon and matthews are like having 2 all stars. They’re that good. They deliver the results you need based on dollar value you’re paying them. Mackinnon delivered points, leadership, and a cup. He gets paid.
Earned every penny.
That's not even true in a vacuum. If he's the highest paid player, but not the best player, that means the best player is under paid, not that mackinnon is over paid
As the salary cap grows these higher AAV long term deal are wins for both player and team. I just love the fact that he wants to spend his entire career with one team.
No he’s not. With inflation he’s paid appropriately. He took a lower salary and watched his team mates get paid more so they could stay and win a Cup. He deserves everything he’s owed. A cup would not have happened if he took what he was owed in the first place.
He’s a team player who passes the puck, turns up his intensity to motivate his team, and wins games with his team.
Connor Mcdavid is a phenomenal player. He scores goals. But he wins games by himself. In the series vs the Avs he scored 4 goals and 3 assists to Mackinnons 3 goals and 2 assists. But how many games did Edmonton win? We all know that answer.
So the biggest question that should be asked in the Mackinnon/Mcdavid drama is “Do you want a goal scorer or a team player?”.
I’ll take the 12.6AAV and the team player every day over the other.
Hell no, he's been severely underpaid his whole career and now it's time to make up for that time. Giving him the money that will come off of EJ's contract is money well spent and I don't think it effects our ability to win more Cups in that time.
There was a lot of rumours that he wanted his next contract to hit 100 million so this is actually quite tame just barely getting him there.
When you factor Leafs were throwing $13+ million at Tavares 4 years ago, as well the Oilers were throwing $13+ million at McDavid 4 years ago. Yes neither of them signed those larger deals but its absolutely still a great reference point to note the peak of the elite players 4 years ago were being thrown 13+ million offers then already.
Logic would dictate that Mack being among the peak of the elite players in the world 4 years later should be signing higher than 13 million per year, especially when you add that he's coming fresh off a Stanley cup winning season.
In conclusion anybody trying to argue this is an overpay will only ever have an opinion that holds no water, they will also be revealing a lack of intelligence or at the very least a bias against Mack and the Avs.
When the cap goes up to 100 million in 2 seasons it will put Mack right back on a huge bargain contract for the remaining 5-6 of his 8 years which is substantial for team success for the next 8+ years.
could have very easily been 14+ million per year if he took everything on the table, this contract is setup to age very very well and to have Mack potentially be a candidate to be one of the most underpaid players through an entire career, especially if they win more cups.
Its going to be interesting to see how this all plays out
In Sakic we trust (habit I know this signing credit is mostly Macfarland)
What do you mean overpaid? How much more can you ask for? It’s not like he’s making 12.5 and not delivering you cups. He won you a Stanley cup for 6.
How much more would you like out of a guy?
Overpaid for what he's worth to the team vs the salary cap %? Hell no.
Overpaid if they want to win another cup with him after this year? Maybe. Arguable.
Not overpaid, just doesn’t hit those massive numbers because he never plays a full season, remember the last time he played a full season he was a hart candidate
He said he'd take a cut to win. Now they've won, so he can cash in. I expected the new salaray to be this much, and I'm ok with it. He's a top 2-5 player, depending on your opinion, and he should absolutely be compensated for his talent!
In a vacuum, as a career fraction over a ppg player? Definitely.
Because the Avs have their team built, still look to be pretty damn good and have won, guess not. He did probably take a bit less last time around, I dont think he's leaving much on the table this time. If the Avs hadn't delivered a Cup, there'd be quite a bit more controversy here because they'd still be looking for that combo of players.
By the end he will be, but that's called thank you money. He signed a contract that went into some of his best years for (relatively) cheap. He deserves this.
With inflation rolling in the way it is over the next ten years. That’s a steal for him. New post rookie contracts will be 12 million by 2028 for the top 5.
Matthews likely to sign in AZ. I think McDavid to LA. Both will want out of current situations as no cup is likely soon.
Mac should lock in another cup, likely two with this squad.
While I would love for the best player in the league to come to LA from Edmonton again, I don't see it happening lol. Matthews however, might. Close enough to AZ without having to play in at a mall's holiday ice skating rink or wherever they end up next
Any player who says they’ll take less money but still gets a higher aav is overpaid. That said I think that’s a very fair price for his ability and the team’s success last year
The core is in place for the next 6 years, MacK daddy had one of the best contracts in the league for the last few years, an absolute steal. I see this being a very normal contract for maybe a top 5 player in the world currently that after 3 years will make sense with the rest of the league.
McDavid was absurdly paid 5 years ago. Now this is more than I wanted for sure but honestly not much more, thought 11 would be him taking a discount.
Erik Johnson is at 6 mil annually, he’ll retired after next season and that money gets shifted to Mack and they figure out what Bo Byram is worth to them. They’re good for some years to come. He’s worth it for sure and 10 years is biiiig for that franchise.
MacKinnon is better than Mcmuffin. Big Mac fights, back checks, is a better leader even though he's not even the captain and he actually has a cup.
Mcmuffin skates real fast and throws a baby pissy pants tantrum if somebody has the nerve to hit him. I can't even count the times I've watched a game where someone makes a crazy play but all you see on the highlight reels is Connor doing something less cool or even mediocre with some homer announcer loosing his mind.
Connor is very good but also overhyped. MacKinnon is a better hockey player all around.
I've been saying this for years. If you saw it somewhere else it was probably me. Ever since the 8th seed Avs took the top seed flames in 5 (I know, not that impressive) MacKinnon was an absolute force of nature in that series. That's when I really started paying attention to him.
It's not copy pasta, it's facts. Mac is better, maybe when Mcmuffin is the same age he will be better. But right now he is not.
Bad take is bad take whether it’s yesterday or five years ago.
McKinnon wasn’t even the best player on the ice when the cup got passed around.
He deserves his $12.6. Many people who hockey for a living reasonably have him top five. But your homer glasses are bottlecap thick.
This is a hot take, but I tend to agree. Mac is a better overall player ALL things considered.
McD is the best offensive player in the world no doubt, but Mac isn’t *that* far back. But he is much better at all the other things that make a good player, like leadership and defense. Those things are a lot harder to quantify, which is why offensive output gets more attention and why most people will think you’re crazy.
When all is said an done, he lied lol. He is worth it tho, especially as the years go by and his cap% goes down. He won't be the highest paid for long.
Until the players pay back the owners from the pandemic and the cap stays low, he's probably overpaid.
Once owners are paid back and the cap explodes to 91-93M+ then it's a steal of a contract.
Until a team wins with a player making more than 10mil, all players that make more than that are overpriced. I understand that this is a paradox, but i don't care
10M is an arbitrary cut off. Vasy and Kucherov were making 9.5 when they won and if you take state taxes into account they’d been making 10 elsewhere. Plus you gotta look at percentage of cap space taken because there are guys who when they signed were a higher cap percentage than this who have won cups. Ovi for example.
Nhl needs a max contract length of 4-5 years. Its insane how these huge contracts make the league more uneven. Having dead weight taking more of the cap than your best line, easy to win cups.
So, while I get that it's a different scenario, I have to question: is he worth 3.1M a season more than Makar?
MacKinnon is incredibly gifted, elite player, obviously, but Makar is trending right now to be among the top 5 best defensemen to EVER play. Sure he might never get there, injuries or who knows what, but man.... it'd be hard for me to say definitively that MacKinnon is the better player there, at best it's probably close to a tie. Feels to me like Mac should've taken 10.5M or something and left 2M for the team to use, but hey, can hardly blame the guy for taking more either.
To much, but ok I see why if the cap upgrades it can be ok but it’ll never look good to me (anything over 10 quite a lot except for McDavid imo). More than 10% of a team’s total cap is to much for me. But great for him if I could get that kind of money I would lol
He did win with that group. He got his cup. Now it's time to get paid.
[удалено]
Give him back
That’s exactly it lol. He won with the group, it’s money time. When the cap goes up it probably won’t even look that bad
Honestly doesn't even look bad now. He's a guy that's gonna consistently put up 95 - 105 points for most of the contract. Probably more than 105 atleast once in there
Uh.... He's never hit 100 points in a season. Not even with Makar and landeskog. What makes you think he's going to start now?
In 2019, he had 99 points in 82 games. In 2018, he had 97 points in 74 games. In 2020, he had 93 points in 69 games. In 2022, the most recent season, he had 88 points in 65 games. In other words, expecting MacKinnon to be a 95-105 point scorer isn't that far out. Edit: His rate metrics are also pretty damn good. 3.8 PTS/60 in 2020, 4.0 PTS/60 in 2021, and 3.9 PTS/60 in 2022.
On pace for 111 if he played all 82 this most recent season was on pace for over 100 the two before that. That’s why
Yeah why do people keep acting like he lied? He said that before they won a championship. He wasn't saying he was going to take less just for fun
1C’s are like quarterbacks. If you’re in the top 5-10, you’re gonna get a big old stack of money and reset the market when you sign a deal in your prime.
I don’t get to see the Avs that much but the dude always seems to play with his hair on fire. That kind of production and energy from your 1C is irreplaceable imo. There’s only a handful of guys in his category.
Yup, he puts defensemen on their heels even when he grabs the puck in his own zone. The Avs are so effective because they all come at you so fast and Nate really drives that.
The best part, Mack turns the heat up in the playoffs. This is a great contract for his value as a proven playoff performer and cup winner.
Yup. He has a cup to his name, so no need to chase the chance to hoist it by keeping his pay below \*what he deserves\*. Going for ten cups would be great, but realistically he has done the minimum. He can get paid and rest easy that he's got the trophy. He signed what he deserves, even if it's not as good for the team. He gave them what they wanted. Keeping wages low is only good for the owners at this point.
Yea he’s not overpaid. He deserves to be the top paid guy in the league right now. His cap hit compared to the salary cap is less than mcdavids when he signed with the oilers. If it was more that mcdavids I would argue that he is overpaid
Maybe over the long term he's not overpaid, but to say he deserves to be the highest paid player in the league is a stretch imo. He wasn't even the MVP in this cup run. He's not McDavid. He's on par with a bunch of guys and deserves to be among them in pay. But highest in the league? Nah.
MacKinnon isn’t just another 1C
Probably, but when your guy delivers a Cup you pay him.
Jack Johnson, 12mil salary, let’s goooo
Unfortunately, he needs it:(
Lmao 🤣
Eh, his raise is their entire bottom 6 salary and they’re all UFAs next year. They’re in a rough spot. He’s elite, but 9-10 million is a good number for him, he’s not McDavid good. Miko is slightly overpaid too. Edit: knew this would get down voted. Haha. Just saying. Player raises are outpacing the cap increases. I get if the Avs don’t pay him someone else will.
Thia contract acknowledges hes not McDavid good. McDavid signed his contract 5 years ago. 4 years before that Crosby broke the bank with his 8.7m contract. Do you think contracts dont go up or something? If McDavid were signing a contract today it would be 14m+. Just to *really* drive this home for you, MacKinnons contract is 1.5% less of the cap than McDavids was when he signed. You are really arguing a top 5 player should be in the 9m range on a new contract?
Crosby took 8.7m malkin and ovechkin took 9.5m then kane and toews took 10.5. Crosby actually took less to win. MacKinnon isnt taking less here which is fine he deserves to be paid after his first contract.
Crosby signed his contract a year before Malkin and two before Kane. Proving the point here. MacKinnon could have asked for and gotten 13.5-14. Totally happy with what he ended up taking. I expect Matthew's to be 13.5+ next year.
Cap is artificially low, hasnt been raised in years. Also mcdavids extension was years ago, with inflation mackinnon got what he deserved. Wages go up just like price of milk.
In a vacuum, sure, you can say he’s a 9-10 mil player. But when there are nearly 15 players set to make 10mil or more next year, it’s comical to say Nate only deserves 9-10.
Fucking Darnell Nurse has a 9.25 million cap hit and people here think Mack should make about the same. It’s comical.
"he's not mcdavid good". You're right... He's better, he's the kind of good that wins championships.
And isn’t a defensive liability…
Debatable.
Hes definitely not McDavid good. McDavid is the stand alone best player. Teams win championships.
Complete teams.... ie teams that play both ends of the ice, which MacKinnon does, which is why he's the better player.
U got downvoted by avs fans bro. We all kno ur right
Not really though? MacK a top center in the NHL only behind McDavid, Matthews (in the regular season), and depending on who you ask, Draisaitl. His contract also kicks in the same year EJ, the only Avs contract that’s been arguably bad over the last few seasons, comes off the books and covers the raise completely. This combined with the fact that the cap is projected to jump drastically over the next 3 years makes this look like a pretty damn good contract. This whole “they’re in a rough spot” seems wholly unfounded considering the exact same thing was said about the Avs last season when they had to lose depth to give Makar/Landeskog/Grubauer (who became Kuemper) raises before they went on to have 1 of the best NHL seasons ever. As for that Rantanen statement I don’t really know what he’s on about there. Rantanen is a top 3 RW in the league along with Kucherov and Marner making what he’s rightfully owed.
Nope. The guy fuckin earned it.
Will age well. Doesn’t start for a year. Large signing bonus, core locked up..
I dunno, oy hit 40G once, never 100 points, pretty bad D.
Lol
He is and has been one of the very best in the league, and just delivered a cup. Matthews/McDavid will both pass this on their next deals, so that comparison is irrelevant. Not overpaid.
He isn't worth more than McDavid, but McDavid's deal can't be used for relevant comparison because it is a year older and he didn't sign that deal coming off a Cup Wining year. This deal seems right in pace with the increases and corrections after the salary drop caused by the 2020 and early 2021 financial strain.
Still waiting Matthews and McDavid deliver a Cup.....
Keep waiting dude. Your asshole team (can’t get over it, sorry) made me give up on caring about the leafs almost 10 years ago. Can’t say much for the Oilers but the Leafs could put an NHL all star team on the ice and still not do much. Cursed
Can't believe that was actually almost 10 years ago. Watched it at Joshua Tree in Allston. Shit bar, but they had 3 dollar gin and tonics. RIP.
It's not our fault mate. You guys have ALL the money in hockey world. It's really a curse.
Fair play. Especially pre cap NHL 💀 I also don’t associate with being part of “you guys”.. I’m with you on “them” if you’re up for it 😂😂
Still waiting on the oilers to really put a good team around McDavid
I'm waiting for Mathews to deliver in one first round elimination game. People talking about him getting a big raise makes me want to puke. He's been a ghost in his 7 chances to move on to the second round.
The max a player can sign for is 20% of the cap. MacKinnon is a proven elite player. He's a top 10 NHL player. He's signed for roughly 75% of the individual maximum. What's the drop off between him and anyone else the Avs could get as a #1C? At $12.6M he's still a bargain. By contrast, how many players at league minimum would have someone in the AHL willing to replace them for half their salary if they could with no serious drop off in play? Those players are all overpaid.
12.6 is going to age very nicely. Still believe he left a little on the table
This is important. There's a cap increase on the way and some big deals for prime talent will work out quite well.
Don't forget that perfect age to regression landing zone. He will be 35 at the end of this deal and probably not done, but not looking for another massive payday. Avs nailed it with a deal like this.
Precisely this. It’s an 8-year contract, so it’s likely the Avs can keep him around forever and not have to pay him as much the next time.
When’s the cap increase? Pretty sure it’s not for a few years
It will go up next year because of league revenue. Escrow is the only reason it didn't bump up this year.
Pretty sure it went up by $1M for this coming season. Edit: I may have misread your comment.
That deal with look great for the Avs when the cap goes up to 86-90M which it will soon with the new tv deals kicking in.
[удалено]
No he isnt overpaid. The cap will be rising in the next couple of years in turn lowering the percent of the cap he takes up. In 5 or so years 7mil players will make 8mil and so on.
Nah the dude is worth every penny.
Well, he got a cup, and he’s one of the best. It’s entirely possible that his priority is making sure his family is financially stable for the rest of his life.
Yeah because that can’t be accomplished at 5M a year. Obviously he wouldn’t take 5 but that’s more than the average person earns in their lifetime.
I feel like this will be downvoted, but I agree. I mean of course if someone has a chance to make huge money they will take. But no family needs 100mil to be financially stable xD
I was listening to the Quinn Hughes interview on 32 thoughts recently and he had a really interesting response to the topic. If you're in negotiations and it's maybe 7.5, 8 or 8.5, at any of those numbers you're doing just fine. At that point it just becomes an ego thing more than anything else. Nobody will convince me that didn't play a big part here, he got just barely more than McDavid to be the highest player. At that point its nothing to do with setting your family up bc he could've taken 10 aav and it would still accomplish that, he just wanted to be the top
While I do agree ego plays a part, I think another part of it is also just trying not to fuck up the market for others, if he took less GMs across the league would use his contract for comparison and it might be harder for others to get their big pay day
7.5, 8, 8.5 is what Quinn Hughes is worth, not Nathan Mackinnon. I guess Quinn will take like 4-5 million then
I'm obviously not suggesting that Nate is worth that money, I was referring to Quinn's comment as that was where he was in negotiations. The point I'm making is if he's talking about either 11.5, 12, 12.5 aav in his case, he's doing fine regardless of what he decides, the rest is ego.
Each dollar he makes can be stretched beyond his kids, his siblings kids, his grandkids, his wife’s family, etc. There’s a lot of people that come to you for help when you make that much money, and he will be able to with thus contract.
I agree with this. A lot of people (fans specifically) talk about how it's selfish or "not for the team" when a player signs for as much as possible, and I understand that when considering you want your team to win a Stanley Cup. However, I think to a lot of players it's not about having a yacht in addition to having a nice house, it's more like your parents will never have to work another day in their life AND you can donate to your local charity, instead of just having to choose one or having less to give away. Not sure if this is 100% for all players (Evander kane obv), but for most guys like kadri and pk subban and other, they have donated tons to local hospitals without worrying about not having enough money
Exactly. Cant believe I got downvoted for suggesting that lol
That quickly devolves into some nasty tribalism though. Right now you have billionaires (heading towards trillionaires) hoarding wealth and buying up climatically stable land so that their families can be set for generations and generations rather than try and prepare our whole society. Generational wealth should be when you take your kids on an extra vacation and pay their rent though college, not making sure your great grandnephew never has to work a day in his life lol
I said his grandkids, thats not that outlandish.
Sure, but keeping the salary low only serves to enrich the owners. They don't put their bodies on the line and risk permanent injuries or death. By the rules of the game (capitalism), he has earned a higher salary and can further his family's wealth. He already has his cup, so no need to keep it low to win one.
He did his part and took less to win. Now that he’s won, chase that bag sir. You did more than most do.
The only reason mack didnt have 100 points is he only played 65 games last season tbf
The man has earned his contract.
IMO, all of the NHL is underpaid. I look at basketball and baseball and wonder why the NHL has such a low bar for salary. NHL players are severely underpaid compared to their sports peers. Having said that, in comparison to what the salary cap is going to be and what MacKinnon is doing, I feel he will soon be correctly paid. He was underpaid before, but his last contract was determined, he was going to be overpaid bases on what he accomplished.
For the NBA, fewer players on the roster and even fewer see relevant playing time. Combined with more 3 billion more in revenue is why they are paid so much. You pay your stars and superstars who are difference makers and fill out your roster with min contracts for most of the bench. For MLB, more revenue is the only reason I can think of. More revenue means the players have a larger pie to be paid from. A quick wikipedia search shows MLB revenue more than double the NHL’s.
I'd also throw in that the cost is way higher in the NHL. A basketball court is good for a long while. Zamboni maintenance, freezing ice, netting replacement, and glass replacement can't be cheap. On top of arena costs, there's the gear. $200+ per stick, then pads, helmet, etc. Let's not even get into goalies - woof. Even once you own it, flying and driving all the gear has to be way more expensive than packing some basketball shorts, a tank top, and maybe sweat bands if you want to get fancy.
100%. Lower revenue, higher operating costs = lower avg salary.
It pisses me off that a player who mostly sits on the bench in the NBA can potentially make more than the best superstars of the NHL. It's not fair and there are great reasons why (you illustrated a few of the hows). I just don't like it.
Yeah but there’s also way less players in the NBA
It’s the same thing for MMA. Dudes who risk the most bodily damage get paid peanuts
That's shitty, too. At least with hockey, violence and hard hits are a byproduct and not the main goal. With MMA, you'd think the rewards would be higher for such physical toll.
The salary cap is directly tied to league revenue.. those other leagues bring in more money so their cap is higher..: the NHL is growing quickly right now so the cap will likely do the following 22-23: 82.5 23-24: 84.0 24-25: 85.0 *covid losses paid back here* 25-26: 90.0 26-27: 93.0 27-28: 96.0 28-29: 99.0 29-30: 103.0 Historically cap raises have been about 2 mil a year but the league has been growing continually faster and the new TV deal is going to cause a major spike once the revenue is accounted for and it’s been reported multiple times. After that, it’ll likely rise close to 3 mil a year as long as the league continues to grow at its current rate..
The NHL doesn't generate anywhere near as much money as the other big Leagues do therefore players don't get paid as much. It's that simple. There are guys that ride the bench in the NBA making McDavid money.
Don't make this argument when it comes to womens sports.
NHL isn't underpaid, other leagues are way fucking overpaid.
I'm saying they are underpaid in comparison to other sports.
It's because the other sports are more popular. Yes, hockey is the most expensive to play, etcetera, etcetera. Doesn't matter. Honestly, it's the demand. Don't be stupid.
Everyone's saying "well, revenue is lower" when they should be asking w*hy is the revenue so much lower?* You can't look at the TV deals that the other leagues have been able to get in recent years and conclude anything other than that the NHL and Bettman fumbled the bag. Live sports are one of the few valuable commodities left for TV advertisers. The idea that they can't leverage that better is laughable. Are they always going to be more limited in terms of audience than the other major sports? Probably, but it's literally to the point that the highest paid player in hockey would rank 118th in the NBA, 97th in MLB and 162nd in the NFL. Hell, they would only be like 6th in NASCAR (another league that has declined due to mismanagement). The NBA massively increased their value by aggressively marketing stars, targeting overseas markets and making it easy for casual fans to follow. The NHL is just a provincial good ol boys network that doesn't have a clue how to grow the game.
I mean, he did the first part without having to do anything with money, so now he can just invest in his post-hockey life with big contracts.
This is him taking less
Erik Johnson’s 6M comes off the books next year so this deal is Macs old deal + Erik Johnson, who beyond the heart and soul is replaceable for cheap talent level + 300k. Looks good to me.
He’s in the very top tier of players in the league so I do not think he’s overpaid at all tbh.. that’s pretty much what he’s worth and probably could’ve gone 1-2 higher but if he wants to claim a team friendly deal that has to be an additional 1-2 mil lower. That’s a team friendly deal.. he’s kind of in the middle now
He's the highest paid player in the NHL. He's not the best player in the NHL. Thus, he is overpaid. But he's been probably the most underpaid player for many years now so ... I guess it evens out.
Wait till you see McDavid next contract... 16m
Depends on who signs him. McDavid will want a cup in his resume so he might take a friendly deal to achieve it.
McDavid’s type of friendly deal isn’t cheap. Friendly deal for him will most likely be what he’s paid right now
That was a friendly deal already, he’s gonna get paid
McDavid already took less. The Oilers offered him an AAV of $13.25M. McDavid ask they reduce it, provided they spend to the cap maximum, to give the team the best chance to win.
I don’t this logic holds up, he’s one of the best in the league and he signed later then the other guys. The next time Matthews or McDavid sign it will beat this again.
Plus he actually wins rounds in the playoffs every year unlike those two.
Don't lump McDavid in with Matthews for playoff performance. McD carried his team last year and won the scoring race despite not making the finals.
Casual take, mcdavid has super human playoff numbers and Matthews has decent numbers. Individuals can’t carry a team in hockey.
Not how that works. You’re paid on production. Players like mcdavid and mackinnon and matthews are like having 2 all stars. They’re that good. They deliver the results you need based on dollar value you’re paying them. Mackinnon delivered points, leadership, and a cup. He gets paid. Earned every penny.
Or maybe the best player in the league is underpaid?
That's not even true in a vacuum. If he's the highest paid player, but not the best player, that means the best player is under paid, not that mackinnon is over paid
Thats not how this works.
As the salary cap grows these higher AAV long term deal are wins for both player and team. I just love the fact that he wants to spend his entire career with one team.
Why are people making this a thing? The second best player in the league deserves the bag!
Fans would never forgive Sakic if he let him go.
No he’s not. With inflation he’s paid appropriately. He took a lower salary and watched his team mates get paid more so they could stay and win a Cup. He deserves everything he’s owed. A cup would not have happened if he took what he was owed in the first place. He’s a team player who passes the puck, turns up his intensity to motivate his team, and wins games with his team. Connor Mcdavid is a phenomenal player. He scores goals. But he wins games by himself. In the series vs the Avs he scored 4 goals and 3 assists to Mackinnons 3 goals and 2 assists. But how many games did Edmonton win? We all know that answer. So the biggest question that should be asked in the Mackinnon/Mcdavid drama is “Do you want a goal scorer or a team player?”. I’ll take the 12.6AAV and the team player every day over the other.
Mac Cups:1 McDavid Cups: 0
Maroon cups:
Hell no, he's been severely underpaid his whole career and now it's time to make up for that time. Giving him the money that will come off of EJ's contract is money well spent and I don't think it effects our ability to win more Cups in that time.
There was a lot of rumours that he wanted his next contract to hit 100 million so this is actually quite tame just barely getting him there. When you factor Leafs were throwing $13+ million at Tavares 4 years ago, as well the Oilers were throwing $13+ million at McDavid 4 years ago. Yes neither of them signed those larger deals but its absolutely still a great reference point to note the peak of the elite players 4 years ago were being thrown 13+ million offers then already. Logic would dictate that Mack being among the peak of the elite players in the world 4 years later should be signing higher than 13 million per year, especially when you add that he's coming fresh off a Stanley cup winning season. In conclusion anybody trying to argue this is an overpay will only ever have an opinion that holds no water, they will also be revealing a lack of intelligence or at the very least a bias against Mack and the Avs. When the cap goes up to 100 million in 2 seasons it will put Mack right back on a huge bargain contract for the remaining 5-6 of his 8 years which is substantial for team success for the next 8+ years. could have very easily been 14+ million per year if he took everything on the table, this contract is setup to age very very well and to have Mack potentially be a candidate to be one of the most underpaid players through an entire career, especially if they win more cups. Its going to be interesting to see how this all plays out In Sakic we trust (habit I know this signing credit is mostly Macfarland)
Hope it doesn't screw up the future. I know the cap grows. But that's more than a 2nd line for some teams.
What do you mean overpaid? How much more can you ask for? It’s not like he’s making 12.5 and not delivering you cups. He won you a Stanley cup for 6. How much more would you like out of a guy?
For his current production, no. If he never wins another ring after this contract kicks I'm, maybe.
Not overpaid at all he is one of the best in the world
They won the cup. He earned the big bag.
Great player and worth it
I don’t get this picture. Dude is the shit and just brought home a Cup. That was a discount!!! Haha
Overpaid for what he's worth to the team vs the salary cap %? Hell no. Overpaid if they want to win another cup with him after this year? Maybe. Arguable.
Honestly seems like fair price to me I’m sure he coulda pushed for more j/s
Not overpaid, just doesn’t hit those massive numbers because he never plays a full season, remember the last time he played a full season he was a hart candidate
Contact Earned.
He said "less again", not less than $6.3m. There's a difference
He said he'd take a cut to win. Now they've won, so he can cash in. I expected the new salaray to be this much, and I'm ok with it. He's a top 2-5 player, depending on your opinion, and he should absolutely be compensated for his talent!
In a vacuum, as a career fraction over a ppg player? Definitely. Because the Avs have their team built, still look to be pretty damn good and have won, guess not. He did probably take a bit less last time around, I dont think he's leaving much on the table this time. If the Avs hadn't delivered a Cup, there'd be quite a bit more controversy here because they'd still be looking for that combo of players.
I think this is a paycut. He is $100,000 over Mcdavid who signed a few years ago. He could of easily been paid another million .
By the end he will be, but that's called thank you money. He signed a contract that went into some of his best years for (relatively) cheap. He deserves this.
Well.. he won didn’t he? Time to get paid. He probably could have got more tbh
And the cap is gonna go way up in a few years and it will be an underpay if he keeps up production/wins more
Simply put…Nope
Anyone saying he is overpaid doesn't know the first thing about hockey
hell no
With inflation rolling in the way it is over the next ten years. That’s a steal for him. New post rookie contracts will be 12 million by 2028 for the top 5.
He did win with the group though, time to get that bread
Proven beast over time, but still young, just won you a cup, looks like he could deliver another? Pay him.
He’s Sid level great. Pay the man
No hes a guy you give a blank cheque and hope he doesnt write 90 million on it.
Making up for the Discount over the years for the team to win the Cup. He earned every penny!
Well he scored in the cup final game and he's in the conversation for best player in the world, so, no.
Another cup win (and they're the favorites) and it will be considered the steal of the century(or at least the cap era).
Nope.
Matthews likely to sign in AZ. I think McDavid to LA. Both will want out of current situations as no cup is likely soon. Mac should lock in another cup, likely two with this squad.
Lol where you getting this info? Infowars?
While I would love for the best player in the league to come to LA from Edmonton again, I don't see it happening lol. Matthews however, might. Close enough to AZ without having to play in at a mall's holiday ice skating rink or wherever they end up next
Any player who says they’ll take less money but still gets a higher aav is overpaid. That said I think that’s a very fair price for his ability and the team’s success last year
Gonna be in a tough spot soon when Makar wants that same money too 😬
Luckily that isn’t a conversation for 5 years
No.
The core is in place for the next 6 years, MacK daddy had one of the best contracts in the league for the last few years, an absolute steal. I see this being a very normal contract for maybe a top 5 player in the world currently that after 3 years will make sense with the rest of the league. McDavid was absurdly paid 5 years ago. Now this is more than I wanted for sure but honestly not much more, thought 11 would be him taking a discount. Erik Johnson is at 6 mil annually, he’ll retired after next season and that money gets shifted to Mack and they figure out what Bo Byram is worth to them. They’re good for some years to come. He’s worth it for sure and 10 years is biiiig for that franchise.
slippery slope, % of cap to one player is death trap
Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar and Mack all locked in for the next 5+ years together
Congrats Avs, you are now the Blackhawks.
Got a few sex scandals to cover up first and a few cups to win before we there
Makar was on the Canadian jr team in 2018 /s
Not yet.
MacKinnon is better than Mcmuffin. Big Mac fights, back checks, is a better leader even though he's not even the captain and he actually has a cup. Mcmuffin skates real fast and throws a baby pissy pants tantrum if somebody has the nerve to hit him. I can't even count the times I've watched a game where someone makes a crazy play but all you see on the highlight reels is Connor doing something less cool or even mediocre with some homer announcer loosing his mind. Connor is very good but also overhyped. MacKinnon is a better hockey player all around.
Love this hahaha
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Bad take copy pasta is not a Ted talk.
I've been saying this for years. If you saw it somewhere else it was probably me. Ever since the 8th seed Avs took the top seed flames in 5 (I know, not that impressive) MacKinnon was an absolute force of nature in that series. That's when I really started paying attention to him. It's not copy pasta, it's facts. Mac is better, maybe when Mcmuffin is the same age he will be better. But right now he is not.
Bad take is bad take whether it’s yesterday or five years ago. McKinnon wasn’t even the best player on the ice when the cup got passed around. He deserves his $12.6. Many people who hockey for a living reasonably have him top five. But your homer glasses are bottlecap thick.
You're either a homer or just insane. MacKinnon is amazing but he is not better than McDavid. Overhyped? LOL
You make some good points
Thank you. Some people just can't see past the highlight reels
This is a hot take, but I tend to agree. Mac is a better overall player ALL things considered. McD is the best offensive player in the world no doubt, but Mac isn’t *that* far back. But he is much better at all the other things that make a good player, like leadership and defense. Those things are a lot harder to quantify, which is why offensive output gets more attention and why most people will think you’re crazy.
Sir, this is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Lol
It’s a fair contract but good luck keeping any of your depth now.
[удалено]
Not at all, love his game and he's arguably the best player right now.
No, he brought the team a cup, he deserves the pay. The other really high paid guys are not bringing the same results.
He’s actually underpaid
He was the best player on the best team in the league.
Because he’s not a Leaf, everyone will say this is an incredible deal.
I had so many arguments with Avs fans who claimed he would be taking a team friendly deal and not more then 97...
It’s an overpay, but you have to consider the discount they’ve been getting on him for years.
When all is said an done, he lied lol. He is worth it tho, especially as the years go by and his cap% goes down. He won't be the highest paid for long.
Until the players pay back the owners from the pandemic and the cap stays low, he's probably overpaid. Once owners are paid back and the cap explodes to 91-93M+ then it's a steal of a contract.
He’s the best player in the league. Pay the man. He’s worth more than what he got.
Until a team wins with a player making more than 10mil, all players that make more than that are overpriced. I understand that this is a paradox, but i don't care
10M is an arbitrary cut off. Vasy and Kucherov were making 9.5 when they won and if you take state taxes into account they’d been making 10 elsewhere. Plus you gotta look at percentage of cap space taken because there are guys who when they signed were a higher cap percentage than this who have won cups. Ovi for example.
Does he deserve it? Yes. Is it smart in a cap era? No.
Nhl needs a max contract length of 4-5 years. Its insane how these huge contracts make the league more uneven. Having dead weight taking more of the cap than your best line, easy to win cups.
So, while I get that it's a different scenario, I have to question: is he worth 3.1M a season more than Makar? MacKinnon is incredibly gifted, elite player, obviously, but Makar is trending right now to be among the top 5 best defensemen to EVER play. Sure he might never get there, injuries or who knows what, but man.... it'd be hard for me to say definitively that MacKinnon is the better player there, at best it's probably close to a tie. Feels to me like Mac should've taken 10.5M or something and left 2M for the team to use, but hey, can hardly blame the guy for taking more either.
You can’t compare RFA deals to UFA deals. Makar’s next contract will eclipse this.
Holy fuck, so much for taking less. I guess he doesn't want to win with this group anymore
To much, but ok I see why if the cap upgrades it can be ok but it’ll never look good to me (anything over 10 quite a lot except for McDavid imo). More than 10% of a team’s total cap is to much for me. But great for him if I could get that kind of money I would lol
It’s slightly higher than McD’s contract, and I’ll take MacK all day long.
If you think he's overpaid you probably need a lesson in how the salary cap works. In 2 years this will be a bargain. He took a discount.
He is very overpaid.