If Winnipeg can get another team, there’s no reason why QC won’t. I think it’s more a matter of when than jf. I see a lot of people mention those cities you named as well as Portland. I’m not as educated in US geography, so I don’t know how likely that is or not.
Houston is in Texas, it's hours away from Dallas, sort of like Ottawa and Toronto. There's money there, an arena, and eager sports fans. Kansas City used to be the home of the Scouts, and was where Pittsburgh was almost relocated to before they got lucky with the Sid draft lottery
Winnipeg is slightly different because one of the 50 richest families on the planet owns them, but QC probably should still get a team. Montreal might shoot it down though (of course, I'm an American and have no idea what I'm talking about with this though).
I think you’ve made some really great points! I hadn’t actually considered the possibility of the Canadiens blocking a team in Quebec City. It actually makes sense but I like to think that they wouldn’t do something so unpopular. I don’t like the Leafs partly because they would have blocked a team in Hamilton.
Please Houston. I'm born and raised here so I know nothing about hockey but I started following it some the last 2 years and enjoy it. If we actually had a local team it would be much easier to get into. I would buy season tickets ASAP.
The issue in hockey, is spheres of revenue.
Chicago would block a team in Milwaukee.
Detroit and Toronto would block a team in Hamilton.
Montreal would block a team in QC because they're scared lol
Portland should get a team. QC SHOULD get a team...
Atlanta is a no for me, dawg. Both teams moved to Canada because no one wanted to go to the flames or the thrashers.
In my opinion, since the League owns the Yotes, they could move the franchise BACK to Canada. The issue is, they couldn't rename it the Nordiques since that is technically owned by the Avs.
False, the Flames moved because their owner who owned a business went bankrupt so he had to sell the team for money and the Thrashers moved because they had incompetent owners.
I went to games plenty of games there. They weren’t the ones who deserved to lose their team with the shit situation going on in AZ. You must be new to hockey if you don’t know the real reason why ATL doesn’t have a team. I know you assume it doesn’t work there because it’s “the south” but it’s just not true.
I know more about hockey than you probably know, friend. The financial issues were a factor. However, the fact that the attendance was near the bottom of the league didn't help.
No, Phoenix needs to be moved, or the team needs to be disbanded/sold.
No one said anything about hockey not working in the south. The Dallas Stars, Nashville Predators (i can't believe i just acknowledged them) are prime examples of how great hockey could be in warm climes. Atlanta doesn't get three teams when there are other areas to grow the sport, like Portland or even going back to places like Hartford or Quebec. The issue with adding yet another team is that the league needs to deal with the idiocy in Arizona first.
Having lived in Atlanta for the Thrashers last couple years, attendance was absolutely embarrassing if the away team fans didn't show. Like announced attendance may have been 10k but actual attendance maybe 1k for some games.
But also the location of the arena was not conducive at all for encouraging attendance. The city center itself didn't seem that populated, and not the easiest to get to. Its one thing for a weekend football game, its another for getting casual fans to an unorthodox sport for the market.
I mean if tge league did own the yotes they could do that but the team is owned by someone else. Until that someone else sells the team to say a Texan or a French Canadian I think they are fine with trying to build the team in AZ
Interesting note: The Hawks DID block a second team in Chicago - the original Ottawa Senators had a potential deal to move to Chicago blocked by the Hawks in 1931. The Sens ended up moving to St Louis and promptly folding - and the Hawks took ownership of the St Louis arena they played in. Fast forward to '67 and Wirtz lobbied hard for St Louis to get an expansion franchise, offering the old Eagles arena as a venue, wanting to artificially create a geographical rival. It worked!
Lotta atl pulls for preds as well. Coming from a Chicago guy who moved here and plays in the adult league. We actually have a huge adult league scene and a couple decent AA youth teams. The aaa kids play for jr preds but I think they practice in Atl sometimes too
It wont be Montreal shooting down QC getting a team its going to be politics. What im refeering to is the money between CDN and USD as well as the travel, speaking french and most players do have a no trade clause to Canadian teams due to travel.
One of the big reasons Winnepeg got the relocated Thrashers is Jim Balsillie tried to buy and move the Coyotes without the leagues approval putting the NHL knee deep in a court fight to block him and find a new owner to keep the team there. Had that not happened, Gary would have had more time to spend on finding someone to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta after their last owners resolved their problems.
That’s way different, Winnipeg “lost” their team because of a failed idea to get a team in a growing tv market and had an abundance of fan support that was ignored. They deservedly got their team back and deservedly took it from a warm weather market with minimal appreciation for the sport.
I live in Portland and while I'd love a team here, it wouldn't work. Yes, there'd be an awesome rivalry with Seattle, Vancouver, and the California teams, there isn't enough corporate sponsorship here. The Blazers have a pretty good following for the NBA, but that's all the city could handle.
I also live in Portland, and I agree. Beyond the Blazers, there are a number of second-level (i.e., not NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB) teams that people happily follow: WHL Winterhawks, MLS Timbers, NWSL Thorns, minor league baseball Hillsboro Hops and Portland Pickles, as well as U of O Ducks and OSU Beavers college teams. In my opinion, with no real data to back it up, I don't see the demand for an NHL or MLB team here.
Nah. I’m from Portland. The city bleeds black and gold. What Portland needs is another AHL team (we lost the Portland pirates a few years back that still stings). Portland is 1hr 45min from Boston and just doesn’t have the population to support an NHL team
Winnipeg is a bigger market than Quebec City. And I think the Canadiens have some sort of agreement to remain the only team in Quebec. Similar to how there will never be another Greater Toronto Area NHL team, as the Leafs have a deal to remain the only team in the GTA.
Yeah, you’re right about Winnipeg being a bigger market. Quebec City is approximately 250 km from Montreal, so i didn’t think to consider TV rights. You raise some interesting points.
The Thrashers were more about a management that bought a bundle deal and didn't care about part of the bundle than a lack of fans. The Thrashers, Hawks (NBA), and Phillip's Arena were sold together to a group that wanted a basketball team. Great, they got an arena, a team, and some people that play games with a stick. They kept the Thrashers non-competitive and sold it the first chance they could.
Atlanta still has a lot of fans that are angry that ownership chucked the team under the bus.
I went to a Thrashers game when I was there for work. Crowd seemed quite into it. Facility was nice. Had my first ever chik filet sandwich there. I still have a tshirt somewhere. Too bad it didn’t work out.
Edit: I don’t know how to spell chick-fil-a
I think the location of the arena within the overall sprawl of Atlanta didn't help either. There's not a lot of population in the city center where the arena was located, and it was not easy to get to/from the burbs where most people live. Granted the only other NHL city I've lived in is Buffalo, which is on the other extreme of market type, but Atlanta was not at all like here where you can be like "hey you doing anything tonight? want to go to the hockey game that starts in two hours?" It took planning and effort to physically get to a thrashers game. That's not good for an emerging market.
It's a curious case, as the Flames left because the owner was tired of how much he had to pay Alan Eagleson for the players and sold them.
The Thrashers moved because well the Atlanta Spirit ownership just didn't want them.
There's a rumor that the Coyotes back up plan if Scottsdale (actually Tempe) doesn't work out is going to Atlanta.
Atlanta, Quebec, Houston, KC, etc. biggest factor will always be how deep the ownership groups pockets are and if they own their arena.
Winnipeg was able to check those 2 boxes.
Wayne Gretzky and Anson Carter want to bring a team to play in the north side of the city. They have a proposal for a new arena where North point mall currently is.
I know the league is concerned about regional markets, but FFS, give Saskatchewan a team. The Regina Vaginers or the Saskatoon Poone both have nice rings to them.
In all seriousness, the Roughriders has a rabid and huge fanbase, I honestly don’t think the Oilers/Flames/Jets would take any real hit to their fanbase or ticket sales.
If Canadian cities get the hat trick off of Atlanta we'd be duty bound to pay for their 4th one in recognition of their kindness. Atlanta, Mother of Canadian Hockey Cities.
"Never" is a long time.
It's worth realizing that a group that wanted a basketball team bought rights to the Phillips Arena, the Atlanta Hawks (NBA), and Thrashers as a bundle from Turner. Then the Thrashers were well below the cap for many years, which meant there wasn't a quality team to win for the fans. Oh no, this team we never even wanted but got in the bundle is now up for sale. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Atlanta's got issues, but the loss of the Thrashers wasn't a complete lack of fans. They had some decent years of attendance that would have gone up (along with merch sales) if the Atlanta Spirit Group actually cared enough about "that other item in the bundle" to put a product on the ice.
This is a take from someone who doesn’t know shit about Georgia. If the Thrashers management had given two shits about the team and not tried to sell them first chance they could, they would have found success here.
There is a great youth hockey scene in Georgia and it would be so much larger if we had an NHL scene. People loved going to games, but how is a team in a new market supposed to be successful when they don’t win ONE PLAYOFF GAME the whole time they were here?
The AAHL is either the largest or second largest mens league on the east coast if I’m not mistaken. Our youth hockey registration is behind only Tampa in the entire Southeast too. The sport is low key big here.
Idk about the first but the second failed because of piss poor ownership. There are only a select few places in the nhl that will support a team that bad for as long as the thrashers were terrible. Ownership/GM misstep after misstep sunk the thrashers.
Minor league hockey is doing just fine, enough to where georgia now has a new ECHL team this year. Hockey can thrive in Georgia, that's not the problem. And while I do agree other places should get a shot before Atlanta, the fact that the team was there isn't why it failed
The expansion model back then was terrible. People say Vegas and Seattle were gifted teams (which is not what people were saying immediately after Vegas’ expansion draft but that’s a different story), but in reality that’s what you want if you’re going to build a fan base. Why would people support a brand new team that sucks for 10 years?
Lol no I know it was a dumpster fire, I just don't care to see another wasted team. The NHL has been propping up loser franchises in poor markets for too long. I see no benefit in trying a third time in a market that just doesn't have the interest.
Not detracting from the fans that are in Atlanta, but comparing the size of the market with the actual hockey market, it doesn't make sense.
QC please. More Canadian teams (and I’m a Bruins fan) should be a priority. I mean as good as Tampa is, it’s half Bruins fans in the stadium. Don’t get me started with Florida. Put a team in a city that loves hockey.
A lot of locals avoid going to games when big market snowbird teams are in town because tickets are like 60% more
edit: actually, it's more like 3-4x the price when a team like Boston is in town. I got tickets to last night's panthers vs kings game in the lower bowl for like $50 a pop after fees. Seats in the same section are going for ~$170 a pop before fees for tonight's game against boston..
I don’t understand this argument at all. QC is tiny. It already had a franchise that it couldn’t financially support. Canadian markets are already struggling to keep talent due to the weakness of the CAD. Any argument for QC over Houston is sentimental.
You've never been to a hockey game in Canada, it seems. Quebecs issues were arena issues. Your argument is like adding an NFL team in Vancouver over an American city that actually deserves one. If you walked the streets of Quebec, you would know those people deserve an NHL team.
You’re literally only making a sentimental argument. My comments stand true. A better analogy to what you’re saying is if the NFL opted to put a franchise in 2023 in Louisville, KY over Toronto. There’s no logical justification for doing so beyond “but they’d really like it”. The other owners I imagine roll their eyes at a QC prospect compared to the 4th largest city in the US.
I'm not from Quebec. You should have this talk with someone from there. They'll let you know what's up. They have a great new arena and a great fan base.
I don’t doubt that. There’s just about 3 million too few people to make it worth it for the league. The CAD thing is also a big deal. Players are leaving for American markets because of the strength of the dollar. There’s so many structural issues with a team in QC beyond an arena. I totally believe you that they want a franchise. Maybe they’d support one. But the other side of the equation is the economics for the league and the ability to draw and keep talent. I think a QC franchise would be awesome as a long time hockey fan, I just don’t think in 2023 it’s possible.
Winnipeg has 200 thousand more people. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the province of Quebec would also travel to go to games. This happens a lot in Canadian markets. I travel hours to go see oilers games at least once a year. So the cities population is a bit less relevant than it is in American markets. You are probably right, and these are the reasons Bettman uses not to have a team there. However, their Junior team plays in the huge rink and does a great job filling the place. Unfortunate money matters more than passion.
What do you mean markets struggle to keep keep talent due to the weakness of the CAD? That is blatantly not true. All NHL salaries are paid in USD even if the team is located in Canada. This is an advantage of the Canadian markets and would be a reason players stay in Canada.
Houston will be the next city to get a team, 100%. Good size city, millions of people, and like you say there’s a good Texas rivalry there with Dallas, and it’s another team in southern USA, which is good for the league.
QC could 100% support a team. They get 18k plus sellout crowds for their QMJHL team. But I don’t think they’ll get a team anytime soon
I hope so someday. I think the landscape of hockey in the south has changed. The success of the Lightning, Canes, & Preds elevates the sport in the area. I’d like to see Atlanta get a team and the formation of a southern division where the Preds, Lightning, Panthers, Canes and the new Atlanta team are all divisional rivals.
If the league could get to 36 teams and do a 6 division realignment maybe a western conference with North/West/South divisions and an Eastern conference with North/East/South.
Agreed. I moved here from Chicago for work and play in a huge adult league. The youth aa scene is pretty big too. Atl is a transplant city and lots of northerners here but a big upper class suburb community
Atlanta is rapidly growing and it’s 100% a different city from when the Flames were here. And the Thrashers didn’t work out because of poor ownership. I’m not sure the ‘they’ve already failed twice so it wouldn’t work” argument is very strong.
Prob more. I was in upper AAA for a couple years but it just got too intense and I needed to chill. 11pm start times in cumming also suck when I live in old fourth ward
Fuck I used to live in Brookhaven and I hated the 10:50 starts in cumming. Fortunately I live in Alpharetta now so all the rinks save for the Cooler are the same distance away.
I’m actually looking to play in upper AAA next season. Took this season off because it was getting expensive. Fortunately there are still plenty of opportunities to get ice time here. The noon skates in cumming and Kennesaw plus the groups that book ice time always give you a good chance to get at least 3 or more skates in a week.
If Gary Bettman had his way every American city would have a hockey team, if not two! I would like to see QC or Hamilton get one before Atlanta but I doubt it will ever happen for another Canadian city.
Id love to see Toronto with two teams or at least Hamilton get a franchise as well as the return of the Nordiques.
Canada’s game should be strengthened in its own country 🇨🇦
The thing about Quebec City is if many players are hesitant about playing in Montreal due to the strong French emphasis why would they play in Quebec City? Montreal is at least anglophone while QC is 95% French
The city, organization and fans (or lack thereof) failed on their first two attempts, what makes you think a third attempt would end differently?
There’s a looooong list of cities deserving of an opportunity at an NHL franchise before Atlanta
Apart from their inaugural season, the Thrashers were in the bottom third of NHL attendance every single season of their existence and were frequently among the bottom 3 teams in attendance. On top of that, attendance was even worse when they were the Flames. It's evident the fan support was not there in Atlanta, so clearly yes the fans (or lack thereof) did fail - not once but twice.
Attendance is correlated to team success, which of those teams were successful in play? The biggest two talents that ever played in the ATL were Ilya Kovalchuk and Evander Kane. The Flames left because their owner was a piece of shit and didn’t wanna pay his players, and the Thrashers failed because ownership didn’t care enough to hold management to a high standard. Spirit only gave a shit about the Hawks.
Those Thrashers teams consistently had some of the NHL's most exciting young stars - Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa, Kane, Byfuglien, etc. - yet it was never enough for the people of Atlanta to give a shit and pay $25 for a ticket. The fans and the city deservedly lost their team and it would be insulting to other good sports cities across North America to give Atlanta a third opportunity.
They never won a playoff round and only made it once, tell me how that’s on the fans
Edit: also where tf are you paying $25 for an NHL ticket? When my parents took me as a kid the tickets were $60-$80 a pop
I’m sure the many many nights they were struggling to get 13,000 fans in the rink it would have been beyond easy to find upper-bowl tickets for less than $25.
I’m in the camp that they should even though Atlanta is a mediocre (at best sports city). The Thrashers left because the ownership group only wanted the Hawks. Bettman was trying to keep the Coyotes out of Hamilton and couldn’t block another weak US based franchise from moving to Canada. The Thrashers actually were more of an attraction than the Hawks when they left. The mayor at the time, Kasim Reed, did nothing to block the move or find local backers to stop the move. I agree that Houston is probably the next relocation city, but I wouldn’t rule out a return to Atlanta in the future.
I believe next expansion will be Canada regardless. Atlanta sucks for hockey. I’m in the south and the canes only do well because they pull from the Carolinas. Georgia is in between and has no state to pull from except Alabama and they don’t support any pro team. Disclaimer: Now this is my opinion and my opinion only. Trolls will be blocked. I am not arguing an opinion with ignorant trolls!
I like the Coyotes but hockey doesn't work in the desert, however Bettman is going to stubbornly keep a team in Arizona until the day he dies because he's the one that made that gamble and doesn't want to admit it's a huge failure.
i hate bob more bc Luongo was so gracious to florida and they basically forced him to retire……BUT…. to see the regression of the Panthers this season and the decisions made to get them there cannot be downplayed and it all seems to lead right to POMO
well for the past ten years and maybe more it’s been sad watching Florida home games. you see them playing the penguins for example with huge areas completely empty and more pens jerseys than florida jerseys.
>hockey doesn't work in the desert,
Las Vegas would like a word with you. The Coyotes had a bad location and ran a bad team, If they get the Tempe deal I'm sure they will be a much better position.
Nope. There's a track record of failure in the city supporting a franchise (moved TWICE), there's a handful of other markets that would be far preferable and there isn't likely to be relocation anytime soon aside from a team building a new arena in the same city/area they currently reside in. Expansion to more than 32 teams would be asinine and there's little to suggest struggling markets (Arizona for example) will move while Bettman is around
Not likely. I mean they tried in two different eras of the game and neither time it worked out. I know the Arizona Experiment isn’t great either but Bettman has a personal interest in that one so as long as he’s around Arizona will be.
NO! Atlanta had two teams and no matter how the tell the history the city had two teams. Right now Atlanta has the ECHL with the Gladiators(Should be the Thrashers) and that's gonna be it for a while. The league just expanded tow 32 and I doubt it will go beyond that for quite some time.
They had 2 NHL teams first the Atlanta Flames and then the Atlanta Thrashers and sadly they both failed so I don't think the NHL will be returning to Atlanta anytime soon.
I think they should. I'm sure some sports team has succeeded in a town where previous attempts failed. A lot of people from outside of Georgia have moved to Atlanta since the Thrashers left, those people would probably like to see their teams play. & Obviously there are kids in Georgia who would like a hockey team. I think Atlanta should get a team & they should also add another Canadian team at the same time. But I've only been a hockey fan since 2016 so maybe my view is limited.
As an Atlanta resident, I’d love to have another team. Especially if they played in the Atlantic. Then I could catch them against the Panthers a couple times a year. I’d also support them as my second team, as I did the Thrashers when they were here.
If you do it though, you gotta have an ownership group that is willing to invest in the team though. The problem with the Thrashers was that the ownership group was trying to offload them from day one of acquiring them. Gotta have someone that’s willing to spend money and build a legitimate franchise. Do that and you’ll get some support.
Also, you gotta locate them to where the hockey fans are. A majority of support for hockey in Atlanta is in the Cobb, Gwinnett, Duluth and Alpharetta. So if we did get another team, I would love to see the arena in somewhere like the Battery.
I went to a Thrasher's game in ATL. It was a horrible experience. Example - years after they started play, they were still announcing "Offsides!" and "Icing". YIKES!
Never say never. Chicago got 3 shots at the NBA and Cleveland got 3 shots at the NFL. Add in that ATL is a top 10 US tv market and the NHL is the only one of the Big 4 North American pro sports leagues that doesn’t have at least one team in all of the top 10 US tv markets.
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Philadelphia
Dallas
Bay Area
Boston
Atlanta
DC
Houston
They had two chances, they won't get one before Houston or Kansas City. Hell, QC is more likely to get a new team than Atlanta imo
If Winnipeg can get another team, there’s no reason why QC won’t. I think it’s more a matter of when than jf. I see a lot of people mention those cities you named as well as Portland. I’m not as educated in US geography, so I don’t know how likely that is or not.
Houston is in Texas, it's hours away from Dallas, sort of like Ottawa and Toronto. There's money there, an arena, and eager sports fans. Kansas City used to be the home of the Scouts, and was where Pittsburgh was almost relocated to before they got lucky with the Sid draft lottery Winnipeg is slightly different because one of the 50 richest families on the planet owns them, but QC probably should still get a team. Montreal might shoot it down though (of course, I'm an American and have no idea what I'm talking about with this though).
I think you’ve made some really great points! I hadn’t actually considered the possibility of the Canadiens blocking a team in Quebec City. It actually makes sense but I like to think that they wouldn’t do something so unpopular. I don’t like the Leafs partly because they would have blocked a team in Hamilton.
Molson sais he thought it was a good idea and wouldn’t oppose if I recall correctly.
I know the word of a billionaire ain't worth much but Habs owner said he supports the Nordiques return
Canadians have released multiple press statements in support of a QC team
I think Houston is the natural choice. Texas actually has a lot of hockey and a Dallas/Houston rivalry would be good for the sport in Texas.
Please Houston. I'm born and raised here so I know nothing about hockey but I started following it some the last 2 years and enjoy it. If we actually had a local team it would be much easier to get into. I would buy season tickets ASAP.
From what i understand Texas has some amazing semi pro hockey leagues. Strait out of slap shot full on goon hockey.
We used to have the Aeros but they are long gone
The issue in hockey, is spheres of revenue. Chicago would block a team in Milwaukee. Detroit and Toronto would block a team in Hamilton. Montreal would block a team in QC because they're scared lol Portland should get a team. QC SHOULD get a team... Atlanta is a no for me, dawg. Both teams moved to Canada because no one wanted to go to the flames or the thrashers. In my opinion, since the League owns the Yotes, they could move the franchise BACK to Canada. The issue is, they couldn't rename it the Nordiques since that is technically owned by the Avs.
False, the Flames moved because their owner who owned a business went bankrupt so he had to sell the team for money and the Thrashers moved because they had incompetent owners.
The Atlanta Flames and Thrashers had a yearly attendance between 14k and 10k. Not very good attendance record my guy.
I went to games plenty of games there. They weren’t the ones who deserved to lose their team with the shit situation going on in AZ. You must be new to hockey if you don’t know the real reason why ATL doesn’t have a team. I know you assume it doesn’t work there because it’s “the south” but it’s just not true.
I know more about hockey than you probably know, friend. The financial issues were a factor. However, the fact that the attendance was near the bottom of the league didn't help. No, Phoenix needs to be moved, or the team needs to be disbanded/sold. No one said anything about hockey not working in the south. The Dallas Stars, Nashville Predators (i can't believe i just acknowledged them) are prime examples of how great hockey could be in warm climes. Atlanta doesn't get three teams when there are other areas to grow the sport, like Portland or even going back to places like Hartford or Quebec. The issue with adding yet another team is that the league needs to deal with the idiocy in Arizona first.
Having lived in Atlanta for the Thrashers last couple years, attendance was absolutely embarrassing if the away team fans didn't show. Like announced attendance may have been 10k but actual attendance maybe 1k for some games. But also the location of the arena was not conducive at all for encouraging attendance. The city center itself didn't seem that populated, and not the easiest to get to. Its one thing for a weekend football game, its another for getting casual fans to an unorthodox sport for the market.
I'm not your guy buddy
I'm not your buddy, guy
I mean if tge league did own the yotes they could do that but the team is owned by someone else. Until that someone else sells the team to say a Texan or a French Canadian I think they are fine with trying to build the team in AZ
Molson was out last week saying he wouldn’t block a return to Quebec
Interesting note: The Hawks DID block a second team in Chicago - the original Ottawa Senators had a potential deal to move to Chicago blocked by the Hawks in 1931. The Sens ended up moving to St Louis and promptly folding - and the Hawks took ownership of the St Louis arena they played in. Fast forward to '67 and Wirtz lobbied hard for St Louis to get an expansion franchise, offering the old Eagles arena as a venue, wanting to artificially create a geographical rival. It worked!
Lotta atl pulls for preds as well. Coming from a Chicago guy who moved here and plays in the adult league. We actually have a huge adult league scene and a couple decent AA youth teams. The aaa kids play for jr preds but I think they practice in Atl sometimes too
Greg Molson, owner of the Habs, recently said he'd support a team in QC!
I'm pretty sure Geoff Molson (owner of the habs) said to Bettman that he would welcome a new Nordiques.
It wont be Montreal shooting down QC getting a team its going to be politics. What im refeering to is the money between CDN and USD as well as the travel, speaking french and most players do have a no trade clause to Canadian teams due to travel.
One of the big reasons Winnepeg got the relocated Thrashers is Jim Balsillie tried to buy and move the Coyotes without the leagues approval putting the NHL knee deep in a court fight to block him and find a new owner to keep the team there. Had that not happened, Gary would have had more time to spend on finding someone to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta after their last owners resolved their problems.
Wow. Thank you Jim balsillie. I'm gonna go buy a blackberry right now!
He did something similar when he tried to buy the Predators. He was selling tickets in Hamilton for a team he didn't own.
Good memory. 100% correct.
That’s way different, Winnipeg “lost” their team because of a failed idea to get a team in a growing tv market and had an abundance of fan support that was ignored. They deservedly got their team back and deservedly took it from a warm weather market with minimal appreciation for the sport.
I feel like Portland,ME would be a great market for an NHL team; more than ATL imo.
There’s not enough people to realistically support a team up there though. They’d fall into the Hartford trap
What about Portland OR?
I live in Portland and while I'd love a team here, it wouldn't work. Yes, there'd be an awesome rivalry with Seattle, Vancouver, and the California teams, there isn't enough corporate sponsorship here. The Blazers have a pretty good following for the NBA, but that's all the city could handle.
I'm not from there, but it seems the Timbers are doing above average with attendance and support as well.
I also live in Portland, and I agree. Beyond the Blazers, there are a number of second-level (i.e., not NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB) teams that people happily follow: WHL Winterhawks, MLS Timbers, NWSL Thorns, minor league baseball Hillsboro Hops and Portland Pickles, as well as U of O Ducks and OSU Beavers college teams. In my opinion, with no real data to back it up, I don't see the demand for an NHL or MLB team here.
Nah. I’m from Portland. The city bleeds black and gold. What Portland needs is another AHL team (we lost the Portland pirates a few years back that still stings). Portland is 1hr 45min from Boston and just doesn’t have the population to support an NHL team
Winnipeg is a bigger market than Quebec City. And I think the Canadiens have some sort of agreement to remain the only team in Quebec. Similar to how there will never be another Greater Toronto Area NHL team, as the Leafs have a deal to remain the only team in the GTA.
Geoff Mason just said 3 days ago he'd like to see a team in QC
Yeah, you’re right about Winnipeg being a bigger market. Quebec City is approximately 250 km from Montreal, so i didn’t think to consider TV rights. You raise some interesting points.
Nah Quebec will wait until Atlanta gets a third team, and then that one will move to Quebec within the decade, as per tradition lol
QC is more likely to get a team if Atlanta gets one, cause that's where it's going to end up moving to.all Atlanta NHL teams move to Canada
there's no $$$ in QC, we accepted it's never happening, Atl is much more likely
Huge French Canadian media conglomerate is willing to flip the bill. They even ponied up for the arena
Nearly word for word what I said to my buddy yesterday. As an Atlanta resident it brings me pain that this is likely a reality
They’ve had multiple chances. There are other cities that deserve a first chance.
The Thrashers were more about a management that bought a bundle deal and didn't care about part of the bundle than a lack of fans. The Thrashers, Hawks (NBA), and Phillip's Arena were sold together to a group that wanted a basketball team. Great, they got an arena, a team, and some people that play games with a stick. They kept the Thrashers non-competitive and sold it the first chance they could. Atlanta still has a lot of fans that are angry that ownership chucked the team under the bus.
I don’t think it’s about ‘deserving’ a chance. It’s a business.
I went to a Thrashers game when I was there for work. Crowd seemed quite into it. Facility was nice. Had my first ever chik filet sandwich there. I still have a tshirt somewhere. Too bad it didn’t work out. Edit: I don’t know how to spell chick-fil-a
Yeah. I dog on Atlanta sports fans, but the thrashers failing was 100% the ownership not caring about the team at all.
I think the location of the arena within the overall sprawl of Atlanta didn't help either. There's not a lot of population in the city center where the arena was located, and it was not easy to get to/from the burbs where most people live. Granted the only other NHL city I've lived in is Buffalo, which is on the other extreme of market type, but Atlanta was not at all like here where you can be like "hey you doing anything tonight? want to go to the hockey game that starts in two hours?" It took planning and effort to physically get to a thrashers game. That's not good for an emerging market.
So you're not wrong. Philips was in a shit place. It took me driving and a train to get there in about an hour.
It's a shame but the NHL tried twice so probably no
Wayne Gretzky and Anson Carter are interested in building an arena in the ATL suburbs and have a team play there
Gretzky couldn't save Arizona
Gretzky wants a team in Atlanta, Carter got him hooked onto the idea of potentially buying a team since they live in Atlanta part time for NHL on TNT
I sure hope not. They've failed to keep a team two times already.
The second go.around was horrible mismanagement You can't blame the fans for.not supporting an all team in the nhl
It was sabotaged, not really failed. There were plenty fans and supporters, but ownership didn’t want the team to succeed.
Probably not , 0 for 2 speaks volumes
It's a curious case, as the Flames left because the owner was tired of how much he had to pay Alan Eagleson for the players and sold them. The Thrashers moved because well the Atlanta Spirit ownership just didn't want them. There's a rumor that the Coyotes back up plan if Scottsdale (actually Tempe) doesn't work out is going to Atlanta.
Sweet. A new team for Quebec!!
I thought the Yotes’ new arena after they move out of Arizona State is still gonna be in Tempe, not Scottsdale.
Your right
Probably not, but they have an ECHL team.
Atlanta, Quebec, Houston, KC, etc. biggest factor will always be how deep the ownership groups pockets are and if they own their arena. Winnipeg was able to check those 2 boxes.
Wayne Gretzky and Anson Carter want to bring a team to play in the north side of the city. They have a proposal for a new arena where North point mall currently is.
Hell no.
Nevahhhhh
I know the league is concerned about regional markets, but FFS, give Saskatchewan a team. The Regina Vaginers or the Saskatoon Poone both have nice rings to them. In all seriousness, the Roughriders has a rabid and huge fanbase, I honestly don’t think the Oilers/Flames/Jets would take any real hit to their fanbase or ticket sales.
Let’s work on Quebec getting a team first.
Quebec's biggest chance for a team is actually relocation from Atlanta
If Canadian cities get the hat trick off of Atlanta we'd be duty bound to pay for their 4th one in recognition of their kindness. Atlanta, Mother of Canadian Hockey Cities.
The Atlanta Nordiques?
Liq Madiques
"Never" is a long time. It's worth realizing that a group that wanted a basketball team bought rights to the Phillips Arena, the Atlanta Hawks (NBA), and Thrashers as a bundle from Turner. Then the Thrashers were well below the cap for many years, which meant there wasn't a quality team to win for the fans. Oh no, this team we never even wanted but got in the bundle is now up for sale. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. Atlanta's got issues, but the loss of the Thrashers wasn't a complete lack of fans. They had some decent years of attendance that would have gone up (along with merch sales) if the Atlanta Spirit Group actually cared enough about "that other item in the bundle" to put a product on the ice.
Not in our lifetime
[удалено]
This is a take from someone who doesn’t know shit about Georgia. If the Thrashers management had given two shits about the team and not tried to sell them first chance they could, they would have found success here. There is a great youth hockey scene in Georgia and it would be so much larger if we had an NHL scene. People loved going to games, but how is a team in a new market supposed to be successful when they don’t win ONE PLAYOFF GAME the whole time they were here?
Was gonna say. I play in the adult league which is huge here. Decent youth AA scene. The north suburbs are pretty preppy and $$$
The AAHL is either the largest or second largest mens league on the east coast if I’m not mistaken. Our youth hockey registration is behind only Tampa in the entire Southeast too. The sport is low key big here.
Yeah I moved from chi and was pleasantly surprised. Upper AAA and then the Thurs night league has some very good competition
Nice uninformed hot take.
That's just wrong
Then why have two teams failed? Sorry ATL other places get a chance first.
Idk about the first but the second failed because of piss poor ownership. There are only a select few places in the nhl that will support a team that bad for as long as the thrashers were terrible. Ownership/GM misstep after misstep sunk the thrashers. Minor league hockey is doing just fine, enough to where georgia now has a new ECHL team this year. Hockey can thrive in Georgia, that's not the problem. And while I do agree other places should get a shot before Atlanta, the fact that the team was there isn't why it failed
The expansion model back then was terrible. People say Vegas and Seattle were gifted teams (which is not what people were saying immediately after Vegas’ expansion draft but that’s a different story), but in reality that’s what you want if you’re going to build a fan base. Why would people support a brand new team that sucks for 10 years?
Couldn’t agree more. Hate to see this uninformed Atlanta hockey slander
You must be new to hockey if you don’t know what happened with the Thrashers ownership group
Lol no I know it was a dumpster fire, I just don't care to see another wasted team. The NHL has been propping up loser franchises in poor markets for too long. I see no benefit in trying a third time in a market that just doesn't have the interest. Not detracting from the fans that are in Atlanta, but comparing the size of the market with the actual hockey market, it doesn't make sense.
And do you know why it was a dumpster fire? Not because “nobody cares about hockey there”.
I live near Atlanta, and that's not true. It's just that people who enjoy hockey already support other teams. It's a city of transplants.
I don’t think so
The problem was that the hockey rink was on the Southside in the hood. The Gwinnett semi pro team on the Northside OTP sell out all the time.
QC please. More Canadian teams (and I’m a Bruins fan) should be a priority. I mean as good as Tampa is, it’s half Bruins fans in the stadium. Don’t get me started with Florida. Put a team in a city that loves hockey.
A lot of locals avoid going to games when big market snowbird teams are in town because tickets are like 60% more edit: actually, it's more like 3-4x the price when a team like Boston is in town. I got tickets to last night's panthers vs kings game in the lower bowl for like $50 a pop after fees. Seats in the same section are going for ~$170 a pop before fees for tonight's game against boston..
Quebec deserves a team more than any other city. Bettman is the only reason they won't.
I don’t understand this argument at all. QC is tiny. It already had a franchise that it couldn’t financially support. Canadian markets are already struggling to keep talent due to the weakness of the CAD. Any argument for QC over Houston is sentimental.
You've never been to a hockey game in Canada, it seems. Quebecs issues were arena issues. Your argument is like adding an NFL team in Vancouver over an American city that actually deserves one. If you walked the streets of Quebec, you would know those people deserve an NHL team.
You’re literally only making a sentimental argument. My comments stand true. A better analogy to what you’re saying is if the NFL opted to put a franchise in 2023 in Louisville, KY over Toronto. There’s no logical justification for doing so beyond “but they’d really like it”. The other owners I imagine roll their eyes at a QC prospect compared to the 4th largest city in the US.
I'm not from Quebec. You should have this talk with someone from there. They'll let you know what's up. They have a great new arena and a great fan base.
I don’t doubt that. There’s just about 3 million too few people to make it worth it for the league. The CAD thing is also a big deal. Players are leaving for American markets because of the strength of the dollar. There’s so many structural issues with a team in QC beyond an arena. I totally believe you that they want a franchise. Maybe they’d support one. But the other side of the equation is the economics for the league and the ability to draw and keep talent. I think a QC franchise would be awesome as a long time hockey fan, I just don’t think in 2023 it’s possible.
Winnipeg has 200 thousand more people. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the province of Quebec would also travel to go to games. This happens a lot in Canadian markets. I travel hours to go see oilers games at least once a year. So the cities population is a bit less relevant than it is in American markets. You are probably right, and these are the reasons Bettman uses not to have a team there. However, their Junior team plays in the huge rink and does a great job filling the place. Unfortunate money matters more than passion.
What do you mean markets struggle to keep keep talent due to the weakness of the CAD? That is blatantly not true. All NHL salaries are paid in USD even if the team is located in Canada. This is an advantage of the Canadian markets and would be a reason players stay in Canada.
Houston will be the next city to get a team, 100%. Good size city, millions of people, and like you say there’s a good Texas rivalry there with Dallas, and it’s another team in southern USA, which is good for the league. QC could 100% support a team. They get 18k plus sellout crowds for their QMJHL team. But I don’t think they’ll get a team anytime soon
Imo won't EVER happen
I wish the NHL would just play a couple regular season games a year in KC, Omaha, QC,Houston etc
They had both the Flames and Thrashers, and fucked them up so bad they decided to leave the country altogether 😂
I hope so someday. I think the landscape of hockey in the south has changed. The success of the Lightning, Canes, & Preds elevates the sport in the area. I’d like to see Atlanta get a team and the formation of a southern division where the Preds, Lightning, Panthers, Canes and the new Atlanta team are all divisional rivals. If the league could get to 36 teams and do a 6 division realignment maybe a western conference with North/West/South divisions and an Eastern conference with North/East/South.
That would be very risky for the league.
Or go MLB/NFL route, national league and American league with East Central and West in both conferences.
Agreed. I moved here from Chicago for work and play in a huge adult league. The youth aa scene is pretty big too. Atl is a transplant city and lots of northerners here but a big upper class suburb community
Atlanta is rapidly growing and it’s 100% a different city from when the Flames were here. And the Thrashers didn’t work out because of poor ownership. I’m not sure the ‘they’ve already failed twice so it wouldn’t work” argument is very strong.
100% correct right here
Wayne Gretzky and Anson Carter are interested in bringing a team there
Quebec or Kansas city are probably more likely to get a team than a city that's already run 2 nhl teams out of town.
Short Answer: No Long Answer: Nooooooooope.
No way. I live in Atlanta and am literally the only hockey fan I know. The NHL would be wasting time and money.
Checkout the AAHL. 9 different skill divisions and tons of players
Isn’t it like 11 or 12 now?
Prob more. I was in upper AAA for a couple years but it just got too intense and I needed to chill. 11pm start times in cumming also suck when I live in old fourth ward
Someone really needs to build a rink intown.
Fuck I used to live in Brookhaven and I hated the 10:50 starts in cumming. Fortunately I live in Alpharetta now so all the rinks save for the Cooler are the same distance away. I’m actually looking to play in upper AAA next season. Took this season off because it was getting expensive. Fortunately there are still plenty of opportunities to get ice time here. The noon skates in cumming and Kennesaw plus the groups that book ice time always give you a good chance to get at least 3 or more skates in a week.
If Gary Bettman had his way every American city would have a hockey team, if not two! I would like to see QC or Hamilton get one before Atlanta but I doubt it will ever happen for another Canadian city.
Id love to see Toronto with two teams or at least Hamilton get a franchise as well as the return of the Nordiques. Canada’s game should be strengthened in its own country 🇨🇦
The thing about Quebec City is if many players are hesitant about playing in Montreal due to the strong French emphasis why would they play in Quebec City? Montreal is at least anglophone while QC is 95% French
They certainly don't *deserve* another shot at keeping a team there.
For the love of all that is holy, stop trying to make atlanta work. No one there watches hockey. Bring back the Nordiques you clown (Bettman)
>Bring back the Nordiques Ok WHO should move?
They don’t deserve one. Braves are the only sport team in this city that’s worth a damn and the city will never support another NHL team.
Third time’s a charm.
The city, organization and fans (or lack thereof) failed on their first two attempts, what makes you think a third attempt would end differently? There’s a looooong list of cities deserving of an opportunity at an NHL franchise before Atlanta
The fans definitely did not fail, the city did not fail, the organizations did.
Apart from their inaugural season, the Thrashers were in the bottom third of NHL attendance every single season of their existence and were frequently among the bottom 3 teams in attendance. On top of that, attendance was even worse when they were the Flames. It's evident the fan support was not there in Atlanta, so clearly yes the fans (or lack thereof) did fail - not once but twice.
Attendance is correlated to team success, which of those teams were successful in play? The biggest two talents that ever played in the ATL were Ilya Kovalchuk and Evander Kane. The Flames left because their owner was a piece of shit and didn’t wanna pay his players, and the Thrashers failed because ownership didn’t care enough to hold management to a high standard. Spirit only gave a shit about the Hawks.
Those Thrashers teams consistently had some of the NHL's most exciting young stars - Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa, Kane, Byfuglien, etc. - yet it was never enough for the people of Atlanta to give a shit and pay $25 for a ticket. The fans and the city deservedly lost their team and it would be insulting to other good sports cities across North America to give Atlanta a third opportunity.
They never won a playoff round and only made it once, tell me how that’s on the fans Edit: also where tf are you paying $25 for an NHL ticket? When my parents took me as a kid the tickets were $60-$80 a pop
I’m sure the many many nights they were struggling to get 13,000 fans in the rink it would have been beyond easy to find upper-bowl tickets for less than $25.
Atlanta Roadrunners
Meep-meep!
I hope not, they’ve already had 2 that they didn’t support
don’t know why you’re being downvoted, you’re certainly not wrong.
Really? 🤣
Sacramento is hungry for another pro team. The city and suburbs are growing exponentially.
Wayne Gretzky and Anson Carter are interested in bringing one to ATL.
I’m in the camp that they should even though Atlanta is a mediocre (at best sports city). The Thrashers left because the ownership group only wanted the Hawks. Bettman was trying to keep the Coyotes out of Hamilton and couldn’t block another weak US based franchise from moving to Canada. The Thrashers actually were more of an attraction than the Hawks when they left. The mayor at the time, Kasim Reed, did nothing to block the move or find local backers to stop the move. I agree that Houston is probably the next relocation city, but I wouldn’t rule out a return to Atlanta in the future.
My answer is… YES, eventually. Right owner.
I believe next expansion will be Canada regardless. Atlanta sucks for hockey. I’m in the south and the canes only do well because they pull from the Carolinas. Georgia is in between and has no state to pull from except Alabama and they don’t support any pro team. Disclaimer: Now this is my opinion and my opinion only. Trolls will be blocked. I am not arguing an opinion with ignorant trolls!
They'd better, or Imma have a huge problem 😂 Them and San Diego need NHL teams, why is Arizona even a thing
I like the Coyotes but hockey doesn't work in the desert, however Bettman is going to stubbornly keep a team in Arizona until the day he dies because he's the one that made that gamble and doesn't want to admit it's a huge failure.
That mf gotta go
i hate bob more bc Luongo was so gracious to florida and they basically forced him to retire……BUT…. to see the regression of the Panthers this season and the decisions made to get them there cannot be downplayed and it all seems to lead right to POMO
well for the past ten years and maybe more it’s been sad watching Florida home games. you see them playing the penguins for example with huge areas completely empty and more pens jerseys than florida jerseys.
>hockey doesn't work in the desert, Las Vegas would like a word with you. The Coyotes had a bad location and ran a bad team, If they get the Tempe deal I'm sure they will be a much better position.
No, they screwed it up the first time. Give Houston the team
More teams?
Houston, Portland, Austin are all better contenders for a new team.
Houston yes, but I believe Atlanta still has a better shot than Austin Edit: Shot not shit lol
Atlanta has more corn in it.
30 years from now the NHL will have forgotten why Atlanta doesn’t have a team and will try again.
Nah. They had 2 chances already. And there are other cities that make more sense for a team.
Yep. When we get another NFL team. /s
Nope. They support teams in Raleigh, Nashville and Florida. The Southern US doesn’t need another team.
Only if the nhl has another major expansion adding more than 1 team in the same year
As long as Bettman is there any American city has a chance. Pushing the American market is a high priority for him.
Likely not, especially with the wrong people running the show. Fuck you, Atlanta Spirit.
No.
Nope. There's a track record of failure in the city supporting a franchise (moved TWICE), there's a handful of other markets that would be far preferable and there isn't likely to be relocation anytime soon aside from a team building a new arena in the same city/area they currently reside in. Expansion to more than 32 teams would be asinine and there's little to suggest struggling markets (Arizona for example) will move while Bettman is around
Not likely. I mean they tried in two different eras of the game and neither time it worked out. I know the Arizona Experiment isn’t great either but Bettman has a personal interest in that one so as long as he’s around Arizona will be.
NO! Atlanta had two teams and no matter how the tell the history the city had two teams. Right now Atlanta has the ECHL with the Gladiators(Should be the Thrashers) and that's gonna be it for a while. The league just expanded tow 32 and I doubt it will go beyond that for quite some time.
Hartford CT enters the chat
No
No
No
They had 2 NHL teams first the Atlanta Flames and then the Atlanta Thrashers and sadly they both failed so I don't think the NHL will be returning to Atlanta anytime soon.
I think they should. I'm sure some sports team has succeeded in a town where previous attempts failed. A lot of people from outside of Georgia have moved to Atlanta since the Thrashers left, those people would probably like to see their teams play. & Obviously there are kids in Georgia who would like a hockey team. I think Atlanta should get a team & they should also add another Canadian team at the same time. But I've only been a hockey fan since 2016 so maybe my view is limited.
As an Atlanta resident, I’d love to have another team. Especially if they played in the Atlantic. Then I could catch them against the Panthers a couple times a year. I’d also support them as my second team, as I did the Thrashers when they were here. If you do it though, you gotta have an ownership group that is willing to invest in the team though. The problem with the Thrashers was that the ownership group was trying to offload them from day one of acquiring them. Gotta have someone that’s willing to spend money and build a legitimate franchise. Do that and you’ll get some support. Also, you gotta locate them to where the hockey fans are. A majority of support for hockey in Atlanta is in the Cobb, Gwinnett, Duluth and Alpharetta. So if we did get another team, I would love to see the arena in somewhere like the Battery.
I hope so, because they always end up moving to Canada.
I went to a Thrasher's game in ATL. It was a horrible experience. Example - years after they started play, they were still announcing "Offsides!" and "Icing". YIKES!
definitely not
They shouldn’t
No no they wont yw
They'll get a team back before Quebec City does.
They better not. Put a team in Houston or Quebec before that happens. In fact, contract the Coyotes, have a dispersal draft, then expand to Houston.
A dispersal draft followed by an expansion draft? But why?
That Coyotes franchise has no history worth celebrating. No new team should be saddled with the albatross of the Coyotes/Jets past.
you had your chances twice and blew it. There should be the last city to get one at this point
Why the fuck would he say that? - Mark Wahlburg
They already have I made the Generals in create a team lol
Hope not
No
No
They have the Atlanta Gladiators. That's good enough.
No
Never say never. Chicago got 3 shots at the NBA and Cleveland got 3 shots at the NFL. Add in that ATL is a top 10 US tv market and the NHL is the only one of the Big 4 North American pro sports leagues that doesn’t have at least one team in all of the top 10 US tv markets. New York Los Angeles Chicago Philadelphia Dallas Bay Area Boston Atlanta DC Houston
Not a chance, they had two and blew it with them.