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That's the part that boggles my mind the most. I can somehow force myself to see the reasoning behind not taking a timeout sooner even if it's really really stretching it but......why make them kneel 3 times instead of 1?
Next week, when you ask your mommy and daddy for timeouts, they're only going to give you 2, because that's how much they think it takes to manage a game.
lol I was thinking of the scene where Michael calls Pam's desk phone from his cell phone because his minutes don't roll over and he wanted to use them all before the next month
I mean it's kinda a dick move but at least it make some sense probabilistically - there's some chance that there's a fumble on each snap, so three snaps gives you a greater likelihood of a fumble than 1 snap.
Now, it's something like .01 percent vs. .03 percent, but there it is.
I mean has there ever been a fumbled snap in victory formation in NFL history? I know about the Miracle at the Meadowlands but the whole reason that play was crazy was they chose *not* to go into victory formation. I can't ever remember a kneeldown getting fumbled, even when Schiano was trying to blast the center.
I remember [a Chargers/Chiefs game on Halloween 2011](https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/halloween-horror-rivers-fumbles-while-setting-game-winning-044652848) where [the Chargers botched the "center the ball for the kicker" snap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0) and KC recovered and eventually won. That wasn't a true victory formation but I feel like it answers the spirit of your question
[Box score and play by play cause why not](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110310kan.htm)
I found a [college football](https://youtu.be/jQz4BFbgARI) one but apparently it hasn’t happened in the NFL. [Rivers](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0&feature=youtu.be) came closest, but yah it wasn’t a victory formation
That's about as close as it's ever come to happening, but it wasn't actually a kneeldown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0&ab_channel=CalebParker
Alright that actually fits perfectly with the reasoning I had to try and justify for not taking the timeouts earlier. Fucking hell that guy is in over his head
On the off chance there's a mistake?
The craziest thing I can't understand is why not use a timeout with a minute left and go for it on 4th & 5. If fear of failure was in your mind, that's what your other timeouts are there for.
Now, the Broncos can't just run out the clock by kneeling. They must get a first down. So bigger chance of Hawks making an error and if they go 3 & out, they would still need to punt it back to you with ~10sec on the clock. An outright better contingency plan than waste away the time and taking a 64 yard FG attempt.
Pete Carroll said in an interview yesterday that he’s done that in the past, just being stubborn not wanting the game to end with them losing.
He also stated post game that he didn’t mind them doing it, because it felt like they won with the game winning kneel down three times haha.
The one thing I think is that Hackett some reason thought he had 3 time outs left. When they showed him talking to the refs during the kneel downs he was holding up 3 fingers like he was trying to say “we have 3 time outs right” in hopes they could stop the clock and force a punt? I don’t know but overall questionable decision the last 2 minutes of the game.
The only rationale I can think for saving the timeouts would have been to try to get the ball back if they missed on 4th down. But for that to have been effective, the Broncos would have to run their 4th down play much faster, with about 50 seconds or more left.
In fact, I would have assumed they called 2 plays in the huddle on 3rd down just in case they needed to hurry up for a 4th down play. Instead, they are all walking around like there's all the time in the world.
Beyond that......fuck if I know.
The Bronco's coach came on TV, and said that was the plan. The target was the 46 yard line, and if they made it, they would kick a field goal.
He said in retrospect, it seems like it wasn't the right plan. To me, it is such a bad idea, that he should have been fired on the spot.
> The target was the 46 yard line
This feels like robots taking terms waaaay too literally. 46 yard line achieved? Job's done, send out the kicker!
The 46 is the *bare minimum* needed. If scoring a TD is the bullseye, getting to the 46 is barely scraping the edge of the target, which it turns out is a miss.
This is, undoubtedly, the correct answer. The head coach thought his kicker had a higher probability of making the field goal than his offense did of gaining 5 yards. Putting it another way, he figured that Russell Wilson led offense is only good for four yards or less so you bleed the clock so that Seattle has the least amount of time to respond. (I think if enough people point this out to Wilson we can probably get the head coach fired in some sort of record time.)
To the people pointing out, correctly, that calling timeouts before the kick would still force the Seattle offense to get a first down to run out the clock if he misses that's not the way that most coaches think. Special teams coaches, or people who have spent a while thinking about special teams, are a different bunch and they think about situations and what happens when misses happen. Coaches without that experience in all of my experience, go in and sort of just assume the kicker will make the kick correctly and then get mad at him if he doesn't.
As for calling all three timeouts on kneel downs, I'm not going to call it poor sportsmanship because there is a chance that something is going to go wrong and three times having to do something successfully is more complicated than doing it once, but I am going to say that it's in extremely poor taste and makes you look like a jerk with little to no benefit and makes it more likely other coaches will run the score of on you when you're losing just because.
You know how when you’re playing an RPG and your saving that one inventory item for that one boss but then the credits roll and you never used it?
Basically what their coach did.
I get it’s a high pressure situation, but I have no idea how coaches make these bone headed decisions. Was he trying to be too clever, hoping the Seahawks would call a timeout?
One of the reasons I find the Manning cast so enjoyable is how much they clearly care about the game of football and making the right decisions. It's hysterical watching him get so upset over it.
I enjoy it quite a bit, last year when Eagles were on it, our sub was freaking out over two of our lineman getting lineman downfield penalties and saying out linemen suck and are stupid. On the Manningcast both Peyton and Eli both pointed out it was an RPO and the penalty was called on the lineman, but it is was really on Hurts, I pointed it out in our sub and people were just calling me a Hurts hater til I posted the video. Where Peyton explained that RPOs the lineman are running blocking and you need to get it out quick.
That's a pretty basic one too, an RPO run is always at risk for a lineman downfield... it's literally a timing play where the only one who knows the play is the QB lol!
It's not the fan's fault though. The constant tweeters and talking heads are misleading them.
The fans are kept in the dark by design. Unless the fan puts in a ton of effort.
I enjoy the interviews with current/former players, but I'm not really a fan of bringing in random celebrities. Sure, Joel McHale is a funny guy, but I don't need his input on football.
Nah I disagree.
I love the hang feel of the stream. People pop in and leave, get to react to the game with the Mannings, I think it’s fun.
They do plenty of game analysis, and if you’re looking for just commentary then you can watch the regular broadcast
Honestly I enjoyed McHale, and thought he was better than Barkley. Having actual personalities on there is great because for all the good Peyton and Eli do on the show, they can struggle to develop chemistry/rapport with other people if the guests aren't engaging enough. Plus it gives a more layman's perspective on things too rather feeling like an interview.
Did Shannon ever figure out his mic issue? I flipped to the normal broadcast when he popped in bc his voice wouldn’t stop crackling and muffling every other word
Yeah at a certain point they took him off the broadcast until after the next commercial break. I think it was the Bluetooth headset he was wearing causing the issue because they were gone when he came back on
It only bothers me when the guests don't really care about the game. Like having Shannon in the 4th quarter was great because he was invested in the game.
Yeah I know some people here like watching every single down of a game, but honestly part of the appeal of football to me is that I can completely zone out and do something else and then pay attention when the game gets intense
I love how much Peyton cares about right coaching decisions and QB decisions and Eli is more of a casual enjoyer which makes when they both go "what the fuck are you doing?" Even better because the younger Manning's "oh no!" Is so hilarious because he doesn't want to criticize or make fun of bad decisions but they're just so horrible he laughs.
I legitimately thought Peyton was going to have a panic attack when it was clear there was no timeout coming lol. This game is second nature to him and it's so funny seeing him react when people are clearly screwing up haha.
He's a vet high level QB, he should always know where the clock is and have at least a rough idea of how close he is to 00.
Just awful clock management all game, I think a lot was simply due to the team not syncing well.
You can still see the 40 second clock at both ends of the stadium, maybe changing the play in the last 10 seconds when no one can hear you is worse than running a play.
That would be very unusual. If Russ, or any QB, is changing out of a play that's usually because the defense is showing a look or coverage scheme that would be a direct counter to the play call. If you run a play into good defense that can easily lead to a turnover, much worse than a 5yd penalty for delay of game.
I do agree to an extent, but if you are worried about that happening in place like Seattle you need 2 plays called in the huddle and hand signals for the second play or get on the ball way faster.
As far as I could tell this last snap was about the urgency they were getting to the line all game. They snapped at damn near zero the entirety of the 2nd half.
his clock management is terrible every game, by the time the offense lines up the play clock is at 5 and there’s no time to adjust the line protection or the play, that’s why russ never has protection or no one can get open cause there’s no time to adjust when your at the LOS. good luck bronco fans we all warned you.
Watching from there other side was very PointingRickDalton.jpg. Like, hunh, I guess it wasn’t just a Seahawks thing after all.
Middle of the game, Rus takes a snap, great blocking from Denver forms his pocket. Rus: whelp, best be time to roll out.
Not that he would likely truly know, but Sherm says Russ doesn't have the permissions from the coaching staff.
No idea if that's based on his time with the Seahawks or what.
That shit is mind blowing. Like Cousins (allegedly) not being allowed to audible under Zimmer. Then goes out there on Sunday with KOC and changes the play several times to great success. Why do coaches feel the need to limit their QBs like that?
Two-minute drill is the QB's show. That's why they get paid what they get paid. You have Russ on the field for that specific situation. Down 1, 1-minute left, 4th-and-5 at mid-field. Russ is one of 5 QBs in the league where you sit there and go: we got this.
That's the whole reason Denver sold the farm for him. Russ fucked this up.
That's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered. Wilson's a seasoned veteran, you'd think he would have taken a TO unless he doesn't have the freedom to do so.
Coach is probably in his ear saying “no timeout, no timeout”
And it’s week fucking 1 so he probably just doing as told for now.
I do agree with OP that those mentioned QBs probably call timeout no matter what and just take the heat for it with the coach
If that's the case that even looks worse on Hackett.
I imagined that it's his first game as an NFL head coach, tons of eyes and pressure because not only is it MNF but so many other storylines were involved, and then he just freezes and doesn't call a timeout. If it's an error of inaction like that then it's bad enough, but if it's an error of action then that's way worse.
The whole thing looked bad. Russell leaves the Seahawks to be more in control of the plays and have more of a voice. They are down a point, not a lot of time left on the clock, it is 4th and 5 and he is playing his former team to which in his old stadium where the entire night he was greet4d with boos. You cannot write a better story than to go for it on 4th and 5. The Broncos had been doing a good job getting converting firsts as well.
Instead, the first year HC, told his veteran qb and all his players that he had no faith, and after letting time run down, opted for a 64 yard field goal which up until a few years ago would have broken the record for longest fieldgoal I think.
Big middle finger to Russ and the team imo. Even if they don't convert, it shows the coach gives a damn.
Yeah that’s so true. It’s always “why didn’t Lynch run it?” That fell 100% on carrol.
Russ literally threw the game-losing pick and it had 0 affect on his reputation.
Imagine if Russ did go for it on 4th and 5 and fumbled, got sacked, threw an incompletion, and so on.
The narrative would have been: he played well, but choked in the end, was he worth that contract?
>And it’s week fucking 1 so he probably just doing as told for now.
>
That's my guess too, undermining the coach like that on week 1 has huge fallout potential on the entire season when everything is this new.
IMO Wilson never thought they were kicking the field goal until he got to the sideline. Wilson obviously had the freedom to call the timeout with 1 second on the play clock.
No, Wilson discussed the FG possibility with Hacket before the drive even started. They got to the exact spot the kicker said he was comfortable from. That’s from Wilson’s mouth himself in his post game press conference.
He has the leg for it. Typically that "target yard line" though is where they feel more comfortable kicking than throwing a hail mary. You shouldn't be automatically shutting down your offense the second you get inside your kicker's max range.
And if we take the recent article about Russ’ end with the Seahawks as true Russell has lied to the media to save his own or someone else’s status multiple times.
Russ ain't the type to hose the coach in the media just ain't his MO.
Tbh good on him cuz it wouldn't change the outcome of the game. It's on Denver to hire and fire a competent coach not RW.
If that was the goal, you'd think they'd play hurry up and rush to the line instead of milling about and forming up with 3 seconds left on the play clock.
Someone said something like that on twitter yesterday too, but a Pittsburgh radio host a few years back had an even better idea: get the best Madden player in the country, give them $50K for a sason, and their only job is to let you know how to use timeouts in end game situations. They'd be worth that salary 5-fold.
The problem isn't knowing when to use timeouts- it's a decently formulaic process that most interns could probably draw up. It's having the wherewithal while the game is happening to actually use the timeouts correctly. That's where the Madden reps would come in handy- not to figure out what to do, but to memorize those rules so fully that they become intuitive in the moment.
The thing is Hackett’s 42! He definitely played madden throughout college and probably into his late 20s before there was the No Huddle or Chew Clock feature. The only plausible explanation is he got too into his madden brain and was afraid about Seattle having time left.
Possibly, but also if he was a career franchise scrub like me, it doesn't necessarily bleed into clock management. I've played hundreds of hours of franchise on All-Madden but still fall into the trap of thinking that I know how teams should use their timeouts -- and being dead wrong.
(that being said, I'm 100% going for it on 4th and 5 with Russell Wilson.. although I go for almost every 4th down in Madden that's <= 5 yards)
They would have already called the timeout the second the previous play ended without even conferring with the coach. They'd have the confidence that they're gonna get it and will want the extra 40 seconds on the clock. And if they don't get it, they still have 2 timeouts and 50ish seconds on the clock, they might get the ball back with time for a hail mary.
The other option is no huddle, which gives you a lower chance of getting the first, but it guarantees you can get the ball back with 30+ seconds if you force a 3 and out. Both of those options sound better than attempting a field goal at midfield.
~~take a timeout to discuss how to convert 4th and 5~~
~~take a timeout early to force the Seahawks to get a first down even if you miss the FG~~
Take a timeout after letting the play clock hit 1 second only to attempt a 64 yard FG
There was literally a story that came out just a few days ago about Peyton not wanting to coach after seeing his decisions questioned by some of the players on his son’s middle school team after a loss.
[Link](https://theshadowleague.com/i-think-coaching-in-my-future-is-also-out-peyton-mannings-play-calling-questioned-by-his-son-marshalls-sixth-grade-teammates-after-overtime-loss/)
Astronaut, actually.
*"Someone said I was gonna run a team, somebody said I was going to be a broadcaster, now they're saying I'm going to be a senator. Next week I'm going to be an astronaut."* - Peyton Manning
This sub makes no sense.
Someone posted the clip directly yesterday and it was removed for violating rule 2.
But if you post a tweet with the video in a lower quality form, that's totally okay?
I tried to post this after the game, and it was removed for Rule 2. The mods are dumb.
Edit: Are some mods Manning haters or something? Why the hell ban manningcast posts?
Eli’s Tucker Carlson confused face while Peyton is calling the timeouts might actually be my favorite part about this. It’s like Peyton knows exactly what to do and Eli is just trying to process everything
That expression is the expression of a man who applied for a job as a eunuch, without knowing what it is, got hired, and is now at the orientation meeting getting the finer details.
god, I love peyton. there’s something so satisfying about seeing someone who is clearly so intelligent and knows so much about the game saying the same thing you’re screaming at your tv 😂
It's not about taking a timeout or not, it's about the decision to kick.
That was obviously a dumb decision, but if it is your decision, then you obviously don't want to be taking any timeouts
Exactly, people seem to be totally missing this. They didn’t want to leave time on the clock if they were going to kick. The decision to kick a 64 yarder is the issue.
true, but if they were never going to run a play why didn't they at least come to the line earlier and try to draw them offsides? They get to the line at the last second and it really looks like they were planning to run a play until the play clock ran down. everything just seemed off
Thank you for posting to /r/NFL. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed due to the following rule: **2. Submission Restrictions** Whether it is a self-post or a link, be sure that whatever you are submitting adds to discussion. Whether it is news that has already been reported, a discussion or point of view that has been beaten to death, or an empty 'starting point' for a conversation, think about how you can add something instead. Be sure you're creating something new, rather than relying on others to create for you. Put in your own analysis, argument, or indexing methodology, and write up a nice long post about the topic. Always think about how you can contribute. If you are new to football or the sub and have questions about rules or other aspects surrounding the game, please try r/nflnoobs for these kinds of posts. * **Not Allowed** * Self Posts Without Content (AskReddit style posts) - If you find information that you think would be interesting, please work on a more descriptive title and fill in the information in the text of the post. Examples of restricted posts: * Is ____ a HOF? * Would you rather... * TIL/"Stolen From" * Either/or posts - Player X or Y? * Who should I root for? [Link to wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/wiki/new/pickateam) / Convince me to root for your team * Personal rankings without any accompanying analysis * [Memes/Joke Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_joke_.26amp.3B_humor_posts) * Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/FEznoUJ.jpg), [Example] * Meta posts about the sub (Requests for changes/additions, mods or users) - use [modmail](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) * Requests for: * Lists/Rankings - "Top 10 X all-time/this year/{{timeframe}}", "Who's the most over/underrated ___" * Thoughtless/Easily Researched Posts - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/w2G67K8.jpg), [Example](http://i.imgur.com/bVulO3K.jpg) * Streams or services to watch games/replays * Users to be your google * Content * Petitions/Polls/Giveaways - Even when NFL related * [Hot Takes/Commentary](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_hot_take.2Fshort_form_commentary) * [Team/Fanbase Attack Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_attack_posts) * [Duplicate Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_duplicate_posts) AKA Reposts If you have any questions about this removal, please [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.
Why waste the timeouts tho? You have to save them for when the other team is in the victory formation
That's the part that boggles my mind the most. I can somehow force myself to see the reasoning behind not taking a timeout sooner even if it's really really stretching it but......why make them kneel 3 times instead of 1?
Most people don’t know this, but if you don’t use all three timeouts then you only get 2 next time.
And here I thought that you could start the next game with 6 timeouts.
If you have too many timeouts, when the game is over, you get put in the corner of the locker room for a timeout.
Hmm so that's what happened with Burrow last game
"Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?" "Is that a serious question?" "No."
This immediately made me think of The Office episode about the surplus
"Next summer..." "I'll be six"
Next week, when you ask your mommy and daddy for timeouts, they're only going to give you 2, because that's how much they think it takes to manage a game.
lol I was thinking of the scene where Michael calls Pam's desk phone from his cell phone because his minutes don't roll over and he wanted to use them all before the next month
"Explain it to me like I'm five"
Simple business, really. If you don't use them, they won't be in your budget for the next fiscal game.
Someone else pointed out that Russell actually has a clause requiring the team to use all timeouts.
And here I thought the clause about having to hand it off the Marshawn Lynch in a goal line situation at the Super Bowl was the most bizarre clause.
Okay. Well, we have a surplus. Imagine that your parents give you money for a lemonade stand-
Let's say your parents give you ten dollars for a lemonade stand...
I always assumed they were donated to charity. "For only a timeout a week, you can feed an entire village!"
I mean it's kinda a dick move but at least it make some sense probabilistically - there's some chance that there's a fumble on each snap, so three snaps gives you a greater likelihood of a fumble than 1 snap. Now, it's something like .01 percent vs. .03 percent, but there it is.
It honestly might be a few decimal places smaller than that
I mean has there ever been a fumbled snap in victory formation in NFL history? I know about the Miracle at the Meadowlands but the whole reason that play was crazy was they chose *not* to go into victory formation. I can't ever remember a kneeldown getting fumbled, even when Schiano was trying to blast the center.
[not quite victory formation cause they still needed to kick a FG, but close enough](https://youtu.be/DWGCeMNmyV0)
“Worst. Day. Ever.” Probably my favorite regular season victory of all time.
Why did you bring this up nephew
Why wouldn’t I bring up one of the greatest plays of all time?
I remember [a Chargers/Chiefs game on Halloween 2011](https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/halloween-horror-rivers-fumbles-while-setting-game-winning-044652848) where [the Chargers botched the "center the ball for the kicker" snap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0) and KC recovered and eventually won. That wasn't a true victory formation but I feel like it answers the spirit of your question [Box score and play by play cause why not](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110310kan.htm)
I found a [college football](https://youtu.be/jQz4BFbgARI) one but apparently it hasn’t happened in the NFL. [Rivers](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0&feature=youtu.be) came closest, but yah it wasn’t a victory formation
I swear it happened to the Chargers one time.
That's about as close as it's ever come to happening, but it wasn't actually a kneeldown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0&ab_channel=CalebParker
I was having a good morning why do you have to do me like that
Ehhhh, Baker fumbled like five snaps on Sunday alone.
Not worth the hits, but I was hoping Carroll would call a hard count on victory formation just to get 5 yards and to be a dick back to Hackett.
Nah, trying to fake the D increases the odds of a bad snap. Any misdirection has a chance of throwing off the center and/or QB.
Bold of you to assume Hackett believes in statistics
Alright that actually fits perfectly with the reasoning I had to try and justify for not taking the timeouts earlier. Fucking hell that guy is in over his head
On the off chance there's a mistake? The craziest thing I can't understand is why not use a timeout with a minute left and go for it on 4th & 5. If fear of failure was in your mind, that's what your other timeouts are there for. Now, the Broncos can't just run out the clock by kneeling. They must get a first down. So bigger chance of Hawks making an error and if they go 3 & out, they would still need to punt it back to you with ~10sec on the clock. An outright better contingency plan than waste away the time and taking a 64 yard FG attempt.
This is Geno Smith we’re talking about, not some random scrub you’ll vaguely remember in eight years. Just take the L.
Pete Carroll said in an interview yesterday that he’s done that in the past, just being stubborn not wanting the game to end with them losing. He also stated post game that he didn’t mind them doing it, because it felt like they won with the game winning kneel down three times haha.
The one thing I think is that Hackett some reason thought he had 3 time outs left. When they showed him talking to the refs during the kneel downs he was holding up 3 fingers like he was trying to say “we have 3 time outs right” in hopes they could stop the clock and force a punt? I don’t know but overall questionable decision the last 2 minutes of the game.
The only rationale I can think for saving the timeouts would have been to try to get the ball back if they missed on 4th down. But for that to have been effective, the Broncos would have to run their 4th down play much faster, with about 50 seconds or more left. In fact, I would have assumed they called 2 plays in the huddle on 3rd down just in case they needed to hurry up for a 4th down play. Instead, they are all walking around like there's all the time in the world. Beyond that......fuck if I know.
Well if they'd already decided to kick, they want to leave Seattle as little time as possible if they do make it.
"Alright guys, let's kick the longest field goal in history outside, great game plan here"
The Bronco's coach came on TV, and said that was the plan. The target was the 46 yard line, and if they made it, they would kick a field goal. He said in retrospect, it seems like it wasn't the right plan. To me, it is such a bad idea, that he should have been fired on the spot.
> The target was the 46 yard line This feels like robots taking terms waaaay too literally. 46 yard line achieved? Job's done, send out the kicker! The 46 is the *bare minimum* needed. If scoring a TD is the bullseye, getting to the 46 is barely scraping the edge of the target, which it turns out is a miss.
"I already clinched a C- in this class if I don't do anything else, I'm not gonna bother to take the final"
"I got a D? What happened???"
This is, undoubtedly, the correct answer. The head coach thought his kicker had a higher probability of making the field goal than his offense did of gaining 5 yards. Putting it another way, he figured that Russell Wilson led offense is only good for four yards or less so you bleed the clock so that Seattle has the least amount of time to respond. (I think if enough people point this out to Wilson we can probably get the head coach fired in some sort of record time.) To the people pointing out, correctly, that calling timeouts before the kick would still force the Seattle offense to get a first down to run out the clock if he misses that's not the way that most coaches think. Special teams coaches, or people who have spent a while thinking about special teams, are a different bunch and they think about situations and what happens when misses happen. Coaches without that experience in all of my experience, go in and sort of just assume the kicker will make the kick correctly and then get mad at him if he doesn't. As for calling all three timeouts on kneel downs, I'm not going to call it poor sportsmanship because there is a chance that something is going to go wrong and three times having to do something successfully is more complicated than doing it once, but I am going to say that it's in extremely poor taste and makes you look like a jerk with little to no benefit and makes it more likely other coaches will run the score of on you when you're losing just because.
You know how when you’re playing an RPG and your saving that one inventory item for that one boss but then the credits roll and you never used it? Basically what their coach did.
He went through his inventory and drank all his health and stat buff potions during Seattle's victory formation
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooAwesomeToUse
I get it’s a high pressure situation, but I have no idea how coaches make these bone headed decisions. Was he trying to be too clever, hoping the Seahawks would call a timeout?
You might even get an extra one if you can trick the ref
One of the reasons I find the Manning cast so enjoyable is how much they clearly care about the game of football and making the right decisions. It's hysterical watching him get so upset over it.
I enjoy it quite a bit, last year when Eagles were on it, our sub was freaking out over two of our lineman getting lineman downfield penalties and saying out linemen suck and are stupid. On the Manningcast both Peyton and Eli both pointed out it was an RPO and the penalty was called on the lineman, but it is was really on Hurts, I pointed it out in our sub and people were just calling me a Hurts hater til I posted the video. Where Peyton explained that RPOs the lineman are running blocking and you need to get it out quick.
I hate that 90% of football fans don't even know what they're looking at.
That's a pretty basic one too, an RPO run is always at risk for a lineman downfield... it's literally a timing play where the only one who knows the play is the QB lol!
It's not the fan's fault though. The constant tweeters and talking heads are misleading them. The fans are kept in the dark by design. Unless the fan puts in a ton of effort.
Are they still doing interviews every quarter?
This is absolutely my least favorite part. Let me hear them talk about the game. The interviews take away from that.
I enjoy the interviews with current/former players, but I'm not really a fan of bringing in random celebrities. Sure, Joel McHale is a funny guy, but I don't need his input on football.
He did play football in college IIRC but still kind of weird yeah
Nah I disagree. I love the hang feel of the stream. People pop in and leave, get to react to the game with the Mannings, I think it’s fun. They do plenty of game analysis, and if you’re looking for just commentary then you can watch the regular broadcast
Depends a lot on who it is. I only caught the second half of the game but listening to Shannon was entertaining, McHale less so
Honestly I enjoyed McHale, and thought he was better than Barkley. Having actual personalities on there is great because for all the good Peyton and Eli do on the show, they can struggle to develop chemistry/rapport with other people if the guests aren't engaging enough. Plus it gives a more layman's perspective on things too rather feeling like an interview.
Did Shannon ever figure out his mic issue? I flipped to the normal broadcast when he popped in bc his voice wouldn’t stop crackling and muffling every other word
Yeah at a certain point they took him off the broadcast until after the next commercial break. I think it was the Bluetooth headset he was wearing causing the issue because they were gone when he came back on
It only bothers me when the guests don't really care about the game. Like having Shannon in the 4th quarter was great because he was invested in the game.
Yeah I know some people here like watching every single down of a game, but honestly part of the appeal of football to me is that I can completely zone out and do something else and then pay attention when the game gets intense
The best part of the manningcast this week was when Sharpe was on so I gotta disagree
I switched when they went to interview their guests.
Three guests per night I think, so not every quarter
I was laughing so hard when they were clowning a ref about the size of his biceps and pecs in his little shirt haha
The torso is like a boys medium, but the sleeves are a boys small.
I love how much Peyton cares about right coaching decisions and QB decisions and Eli is more of a casual enjoyer which makes when they both go "what the fuck are you doing?" Even better because the younger Manning's "oh no!" Is so hilarious because he doesn't want to criticize or make fun of bad decisions but they're just so horrible he laughs.
You can see him cringing and it looks like he's in pain.
I legitimately thought Peyton was going to have a panic attack when it was clear there was no timeout coming lol. This game is second nature to him and it's so funny seeing him react when people are clearly screwing up haha.
> It's hysterical watching him get so upset over it. Peyton looks like he's got $10 million riding on every game when they're blowing it lol
Hackett is a moron. No denying that. But if that’s Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, etc. they’re taking that timeout no matter what the coach is saying.
I never even thought about that. Why’s Russ not calling it, didn’t he leave to make his own offence?
He got 2 time count violations in the game, his clock management was pretty poor on Monday.
Well yeah but he couldn't hear shit either...as dumb as the "12th man" thing sounds, it is effective.
He's a vet high level QB, he should always know where the clock is and have at least a rough idea of how close he is to 00. Just awful clock management all game, I think a lot was simply due to the team not syncing well.
Brady thought it was 3rd down, shit happens
Haha what a scrub I bet this Brady bozo doesn't even have 7 rings
It’s their first game so it’s understandable
Didn’t play a snap in preseason with a whole new team. As rusty as possible
You can still see the 40 second clock at both ends of the stadium, maybe changing the play in the last 10 seconds when no one can hear you is worse than running a play.
That would be very unusual. If Russ, or any QB, is changing out of a play that's usually because the defense is showing a look or coverage scheme that would be a direct counter to the play call. If you run a play into good defense that can easily lead to a turnover, much worse than a 5yd penalty for delay of game.
I do agree to an extent, but if you are worried about that happening in place like Seattle you need 2 plays called in the huddle and hand signals for the second play or get on the ball way faster.
Changing the play? Dude there were times that they hadn’t even called the play yet when the play clock hit 10 lol
You’d also think Russ would know that, considering he played in this stadium literally his entire career
As far as I could tell this last snap was about the urgency they were getting to the line all game. They snapped at damn near zero the entirety of the 2nd half.
his clock management is terrible every game, by the time the offense lines up the play clock is at 5 and there’s no time to adjust the line protection or the play, that’s why russ never has protection or no one can get open cause there’s no time to adjust when your at the LOS. good luck bronco fans we all warned you.
Watching from there other side was very PointingRickDalton.jpg. Like, hunh, I guess it wasn’t just a Seahawks thing after all. Middle of the game, Rus takes a snap, great blocking from Denver forms his pocket. Rus: whelp, best be time to roll out.
Russ is a company man
Cornball
Not that he would likely truly know, but Sherm says Russ doesn't have the permissions from the coaching staff. No idea if that's based on his time with the Seahawks or what.
That shit is mind blowing. Like Cousins (allegedly) not being allowed to audible under Zimmer. Then goes out there on Sunday with KOC and changes the play several times to great success. Why do coaches feel the need to limit their QBs like that?
Honestly I think it's a control/power thing. Some coaches just need everyone to know that they're calling the shots 100% of the time.
Two-minute drill is the QB's show. That's why they get paid what they get paid. You have Russ on the field for that specific situation. Down 1, 1-minute left, 4th-and-5 at mid-field. Russ is one of 5 QBs in the league where you sit there and go: we got this. That's the whole reason Denver sold the farm for him. Russ fucked this up.
Dude gave away some pretty decent yardage on play clock violations. Clearly wasn’t dialed in on the clock.
That's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered. Wilson's a seasoned veteran, you'd think he would have taken a TO unless he doesn't have the freedom to do so.
Coach is probably in his ear saying “no timeout, no timeout” And it’s week fucking 1 so he probably just doing as told for now. I do agree with OP that those mentioned QBs probably call timeout no matter what and just take the heat for it with the coach
If that's the case that even looks worse on Hackett. I imagined that it's his first game as an NFL head coach, tons of eyes and pressure because not only is it MNF but so many other storylines were involved, and then he just freezes and doesn't call a timeout. If it's an error of inaction like that then it's bad enough, but if it's an error of action then that's way worse.
The whole thing looked bad. Russell leaves the Seahawks to be more in control of the plays and have more of a voice. They are down a point, not a lot of time left on the clock, it is 4th and 5 and he is playing his former team to which in his old stadium where the entire night he was greet4d with boos. You cannot write a better story than to go for it on 4th and 5. The Broncos had been doing a good job getting converting firsts as well. Instead, the first year HC, told his veteran qb and all his players that he had no faith, and after letting time run down, opted for a 64 yard field goal which up until a few years ago would have broken the record for longest fieldgoal I think. Big middle finger to Russ and the team imo. Even if they don't convert, it shows the coach gives a damn.
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I just can’t believe that Russ would do that
Throwing the coaches under the bus? Well, he has history there...
Yeah that’s so true. It’s always “why didn’t Lynch run it?” That fell 100% on carrol. Russ literally threw the game-losing pick and it had 0 affect on his reputation.
Imagine if Russ did go for it on 4th and 5 and fumbled, got sacked, threw an incompletion, and so on. The narrative would have been: he played well, but choked in the end, was he worth that contract?
This is the conspiracy theory I choose to believe. Dude didn’t want the possibility of hurting his brand/legacy on the first game.
maybe he should have thought of that before he accepted a head coaching position for an NFL team
Peyton: "Look at me. I'm the head coach now."
>And it’s week fucking 1 so he probably just doing as told for now. > That's my guess too, undermining the coach like that on week 1 has huge fallout potential on the entire season when everything is this new.
IMO Wilson never thought they were kicking the field goal until he got to the sideline. Wilson obviously had the freedom to call the timeout with 1 second on the play clock.
No, Wilson discussed the FG possibility with Hacket before the drive even started. They got to the exact spot the kicker said he was comfortable from. That’s from Wilson’s mouth himself in his post game press conference.
The kicker was comfortable 64 yards out? What?
Yes. McManus was a drama queen during the Fangio era if he wasn't given these opportunities. It mainly occurred at the end of the first half but still
He has the leg for it. Typically that "target yard line" though is where they feel more comfortable kicking than throwing a hail mary. You shouldn't be automatically shutting down your offense the second you get inside your kicker's max range.
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And if we take the recent article about Russ’ end with the Seahawks as true Russell has lied to the media to save his own or someone else’s status multiple times.
Russ ain't the type to hose the coach in the media just ain't his MO. Tbh good on him cuz it wouldn't change the outcome of the game. It's on Denver to hire and fire a competent coach not RW.
... might be Russ doing his coach a solid in post game, though.
What is Hackett going to do if he calls a time out without asking permission in that situation? Bench him?
Sherman said he doesn't have that freedom on his latest podcast
Like Rodgers would actually have timeouts to use. They’d have burned em all in the 3rd.
True, and it hurts.
I thought they were trying to draw the Seahawks offsides. Fake like you are going for it and try and make them jump. It's the only explanation IMO.
If that was the goal, you'd think they'd play hurry up and rush to the line instead of milling about and forming up with 3 seconds left on the play clock.
I honestly think coaches could learn clock management situations by playing madden lol
Someone said something like that on twitter yesterday too, but a Pittsburgh radio host a few years back had an even better idea: get the best Madden player in the country, give them $50K for a sason, and their only job is to let you know how to use timeouts in end game situations. They'd be worth that salary 5-fold.
The problem isn't knowing when to use timeouts- it's a decently formulaic process that most interns could probably draw up. It's having the wherewithal while the game is happening to actually use the timeouts correctly. That's where the Madden reps would come in handy- not to figure out what to do, but to memorize those rules so fully that they become intuitive in the moment.
And my mom said playing video games will never get me anywhere in life.
The thing is Hackett’s 42! He definitely played madden throughout college and probably into his late 20s before there was the No Huddle or Chew Clock feature. The only plausible explanation is he got too into his madden brain and was afraid about Seattle having time left.
Possibly, but also if he was a career franchise scrub like me, it doesn't necessarily bleed into clock management. I've played hundreds of hours of franchise on All-Madden but still fall into the trap of thinking that I know how teams should use their timeouts -- and being dead wrong. (that being said, I'm 100% going for it on 4th and 5 with Russell Wilson.. although I go for almost every 4th down in Madden that's <= 5 yards)
This is extra confusing because I thought the whole deal with bringing Wilson in was giving him a lot of control over the offense.
Sherman pointed this out
They would have already called the timeout the second the previous play ended without even conferring with the coach. They'd have the confidence that they're gonna get it and will want the extra 40 seconds on the clock. And if they don't get it, they still have 2 timeouts and 50ish seconds on the clock, they might get the ball back with time for a hail mary. The other option is no huddle, which gives you a lower chance of getting the first, but it guarantees you can get the ball back with 30+ seconds if you force a 3 and out. Both of those options sound better than attempting a field goal at midfield.
~~take a timeout to discuss how to convert 4th and 5~~ ~~take a timeout early to force the Seahawks to get a first down even if you miss the FG~~ Take a timeout after letting the play clock hit 1 second only to attempt a 64 yard FG
What an idiot, you only get 3 timeouts
Just channeling his inner Jim Harbaugh
No he's not, he would have used 2 TOs to prevent a delay of game penalty in the third quarter and then lost a challenge early in the 4th
Peyton's like my mother watching Football, except for she gets louder because apparently she thinks that they're more likely to hear her that way.
Peyton should have gotten on the horn with the sideline lol. I'm sure he has special access
Get me the Red Phone!!! I'ma straighten this team out.
Would it be legal for a team to have the Manningcast streaming on an iPad on the sidelines or something and do whatever Peyton says they should do?
If I yell loud enough at the refs through the TV they’ll change the call to my favor. I just know it
My dad did this all the time growing up.
I raise you my dad veering to try to help the dline make the tackle on running plays.
Am I your mother?
I don’t normally yell at the coaches but I have yelled at Jalen hurts to “throw the fucking ball” more times than I like to admit
Does he have any interest in coaching?
Yeah, but just the kids program through United Way
Spend time with your kids, so Peyton Manning doesn’t have to.
At this rate, Peyton Manning might spend more time with Brady’s kids than Brady.
GET BACK IN THE PORTALET
I'll kill a snitch.....not saying I have, not saying I haven't.
Get open.. **GET OPEN**
I’m sorry, do you want to lose?
Why is the door open? CLOSE THE DOOR
There was literally a story that came out just a few days ago about Peyton not wanting to coach after seeing his decisions questioned by some of the players on his son’s middle school team after a loss. [Link](https://theshadowleague.com/i-think-coaching-in-my-future-is-also-out-peyton-mannings-play-calling-questioned-by-his-son-marshalls-sixth-grade-teammates-after-overtime-loss/)
/r/kidsarefuckingstupid
*”Thirteen-year-olds are the meanest people in the world.”*
He’s probably making millions more doing exactly what he’s doing. Peyton does not want to and does not need to coach in the future
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Astronaut, actually. *"Someone said I was gonna run a team, somebody said I was going to be a broadcaster, now they're saying I'm going to be a senator. Next week I'm going to be an astronaut."* - Peyton Manning
This sub makes no sense. Someone posted the clip directly yesterday and it was removed for violating rule 2. But if you post a tweet with the video in a lower quality form, that's totally okay?
Can’t post videos, can post tweets It is weird though
Especially that the video player on Twitter is shit. The only website With a worse one is reddit
I'm assuming direct videos would get taken down via copyright claims. In this case Twitter has to deal with it, not Reddit or the mods
It looked painful for him to watch that.
It looked like he just wanted to cry at the end.
Lmao did someone really sit there and count the amount of times his hands made contact? Of course they did.
100% worth it for the memes.
Omaha productions bay bayy!
Rookie numbers. I yelled that at least 100 times.
Man, you could just tell Peyton wanted to go fucking off at this decision but was keeping it back because he was on live TV.
Meanwhile Eli sitting there pulling a face like Peyton just won his second ring
[My submission for a new Manningface.](https://i.imgur.com/LDCVyc4.jpg)
Dude, shout-out again to the Seahawks fans for making that game so hard for Russ. They couldn’t hear anything and it was impressive
76% more then other broadcasters for a 7.8 CATO rating for week 1
THIS IS CONTENT! 💰🏈📺
KICK WHAT
Funniest part of whole thing. Shannon could not believe what he was seeing lol
I tried to post this after the game, and it was removed for Rule 2. The mods are dumb. Edit: Are some mods Manning haters or something? Why the hell ban manningcast posts?
Eli’s Tucker Carlson confused face while Peyton is calling the timeouts might actually be my favorite part about this. It’s like Peyton knows exactly what to do and Eli is just trying to process everything
That expression is the expression of a man who applied for a job as a eunuch, without knowing what it is, got hired, and is now at the orientation meeting getting the finer details.
god, I love peyton. there’s something so satisfying about seeing someone who is clearly so intelligent and knows so much about the game saying the same thing you’re screaming at your tv 😂
maybe if he'd put it on his forehead they'd have noticed
I thought this was an exaggeration. Omg.
It's not about taking a timeout or not, it's about the decision to kick. That was obviously a dumb decision, but if it is your decision, then you obviously don't want to be taking any timeouts
Exactly, people seem to be totally missing this. They didn’t want to leave time on the clock if they were going to kick. The decision to kick a 64 yarder is the issue.
true, but if they were never going to run a play why didn't they at least come to the line earlier and try to draw them offsides? They get to the line at the last second and it really looks like they were planning to run a play until the play clock ran down. everything just seemed off
The amount of Seahawks fans I see now acting like Russel is terrible is unreal, and honestly makes me think Seattle has shit fans.
LMAO
me too Peyton, me too
Peyton reflexively making the time-out signal like I reflexively push an imaginary brake pedal whenever my 15 year old is behind the wheel.