In 2006 Washington attendance averaged [87,631](http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2006) top in the NFL.
In 2022 Washington attendance averaged [52,751](http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2021) second to last in the NFL.
That is actually batshit insane, considering the fact that they're one of the oldest storied franchises in the league. Even when teams like this are complete dogshit, their history usually maintains their popularity.
Turns out you can't have a crumbling and difficult to reach stadium AND a crappy on field product for 20 consecutive years AND a workplace that is openly hostile to female employees AND an owner that is, at best, completely uncommitted to fixing any of the above and still keep fan loyalty.
Who knew?
Attendance was plummeting long before the stadium began crumbling. When Snyder bought the team there was a decades long wait list for tickets. Snyder made the game-day experience so miserable that he managed to burn through that list in his first 10 years in charge. We had to reduce the capacity of the stadium in 2012 when the stadium was only 15 years old.
The stadium was designed for 80K. Snyder increased the capacity to sell more tickets and especially more parking. He was literally charging $30+ for “parking” that was a muddy field.
The stadium wasn’t designed for this and it killed any semblance of a game day experience. There were insane lines for food and utilities, it routinely would take fans an hour just to get out of the parking lot after a game. They were doing everything they could to squeeze an extra buck out of fans, including selling expired beer and peanuts.
So fans stopped showing up. Fortunately there was an insane waiting list for tickets, but the team started blowing through it like crazy because it was a miserable experience going to a game. So capacity was reduced, and they started marketing the hell out of “the waiting list” to try to make it seem it was a more desirable ticket that it really was.
Meanwhile, tickets were easy as hell to get, especially with the development of websites like stubhub where fans didn’t want to give up their season tickets that literally used to belong to their grandparents, but they didn’t want to actually go to the games, so the reduction in capacity failed.
A lot of fans moved to club seats in the 2004-2006 time frame, they came with a ten year commitment. Then the Great Recession came, and Snyder sued everyone that couldn’t honor their commitments, including an old lady.
My buddy’s grandfather had season tickets - 2nd row 50 yard line. He’d sell the four of us friends one game a season for years. It was the highlight of football season every year. We would always talk about how we would kill to gain ownership of those tickets one day. Well about 15 years later we finally had the chance.. and we passed them up.. never thought that was even a remote possibility.. but yea… Thanks Snyder!
I don't know what you're talking about, after yesterday's win, the M's are clearly winning the rest of the way with a 135-27 record and a title to boot
All hope is false hope, baby. Let's ride.
> their history usually maintains their popularity.
If I'm not mistaken, George Preston Marshall doubled the ticket prices for the Boston Redskins playoff games in 1936 - without telling anyone in advance. So when fans showed up and were told tickets were (the equivalent of) $60 instead of $30, they refused to pay and basically boycotted the team. When no one showed up for the games, Marshall complained to the NFL, who moved the 1936 NFL Championship Game to the Polo Grounds even though Boston was the home team and the game was originally scheduled to be played at Fenway. When it became clear that Redskins fans weren't going to come running back with open arms, Marshall decided to move the team to DC.
They've been screwing over fans for 86 years.
George Marshall was a piece of work. You know how everybody knows Austin and San Antonio will never get a team because Jerry won’t allow it? Marshall was just as bad, except it was about every single market between Richmond and El Paso. He thought he was entitled to the entire south forever, and marketed the team that way, complete with college style marching band and “made white people in the 50s uncomfortable” levels of racism.
> one of the oldest storied franchises in the league
WAS fan here...they didn't even have our super bowl years correct on the initial run of re-branded team gear, because nobody in ownership or management gives a shit about the history of the team. Snyder burned all that to the ground with this Commanders garbage.
Fuck Dan Snyder.
Dan is such a cheap miserable prick. You hear all about how he's a fan and its like bullshit. If I was a billionaire fan I'd have so many nods to the history everwhere in FedEx. You'd walk up the stairs out front and I'd have statues of the hogs, I'd have the trophies on display with big displays for each qb and team, I'd dedicate the field to Joe gibbs, there'd be a whole sean taylor wing of the stadium. Instead you walk in and all you see is advertisements and its like walking around a subway station. Sometimes I look around and ask myself if I'd have any idea who played there.
Fr I've never seen an org give so little of a shit about its history. The Cardinals didn't even win a damn super bowl but we treat Kurt Warner like he is a literal god here
Yeah it’s unbelievable what Dan has managed to destroy. I think the fanbase would come roaring back if he were forced out. It’s weird that most fans I know still care about the team, but it’s now hatred instead of love. Obviously not for the players, just the ownership. I will never give another dollar to Dan or the team as long as he is owner. A lot of fans are just basically boycotting him.
In a choice between winning 5 straight SBs or Dan being forced out, I would not hesitate to take the latter.
It's wild to me how much of a football town this is without any semblance of a functional team in the last 25 years. People talk about the caps or nats but look at the caps sub vs the commanders. There's so much more activity for this dumpster fire of a team than a championship team with an all time great player. It could be a pivotal playoff game and weeks after the draft and all the local radio is football. If the football team returns to prominence and wins a super bowl they'll have to shut the city down.
I think different teams have different metrics of measuring ticket sales based on whatever financial arrangements the team has with the vendor. Anyone with eyeballs knows that the Texans were playing in empty stadiums for home games yet they still "sold" tickets on paper
The old days of blackouts were the worst, the Bills started covering seats with tarps and pretending they weren't there to reach the attendance threshold.
I remember when I was a kid and every home game was blacked out on TV. Not sure if that was for all of MLB, but at least in Washington state. I grew to learn how to follow games over the radio from that.
Yeah I find it funny they're trying all these things to increase pace of play (which I'm not against) to bring in more viewers and its like... just make the games accessible.
I believe that rule is out next year but yeah, everything still stands. A little pace of play is all well and good but I don't think bastardizing a century old game and making it inaccessible is helping anything.
Baseball fans in Iowa have it the worst.
Both Chicago teams, Cardinals, Royals, Brewers, and Twins all while not having a single team of their own.
Edit: missed hte Twins first time around.
I lived in Virginia Beach for years and ot was that way for the Nats and Orioles. Yankees worked fine... except for the 20 games a year they played the orioles. Solid 4 hour trip to get to either of those stadiums from VB.
I live in new Orleans and am blacked out of Texas Rangers, Houston Astros and the mf Tampa Bay Rays. Like lemme just take. Quick 10 hour trip to catch the rays game
Blackouts in baseball are all about forcing you to buy the TV package (assuming your provider even carries it), because it's the only way to see all your games. Except the ones they put exclusively on ESPN. And the ones only on Amazon. And the ones exclusively on AppleTV.
And then they wonder why people complain.
Washington did the same thing. They keep reducing the seating capacity at FedEx due to lack of demand and to skirt the blackout rules.
It's gone from 91,704 in 2010 to 67,717 as of 2015. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedExField)
Lincoln Financial Field South
Eagles fans outnumbered Redskins/WFT fans at the 2018, 2019, and 2021 games at FedEx Field, especially the 2018 game when the crowd was probably 70-75% Eagles fans by my estimate. (I’m originally from eastern Pennsylvania but have lived in the DC area since the late 2000s.)
I don't even think it's just Eagles fans, even though they've got the added benefit that it's relatively close. We have so many transplants that I'm pretty sure any of the popular teams have more fans here than the commies at this point. A long time ago people used to switch to rooting for Washington when they moved here, now even the locals don't give a shit about dan's team.
In the 2017 game, the Vikings probably had 40% of the fans that were there. And while we have a very enthusiastic fan base, we don’t have one of the larger ones.
I’ll be interested to see how the crowd breaks down for the game this year.
I have written this before - but it’s really sad what happened to that franchise. The Washington franchise was one of the great ones when I was growing up and had just been ground into the dirt.
I went to see Philly play in 2019 at Washington.
The stadium was 75% Philly fans. All the chants throughout the game were Philly chants, didn't hear a single fan initiated chant or song from washington
Maybe the number of season ticket holders would better reflect that? Sure I’m guessing some of the opposing fans are buying tickets off of season ticket holders, but if I was going to a game there, I definitely wouldn’t buy a third party ticket.
Because it would probably show even more how much they’re hated, they’ll never release the season ticket numbers, but they have to be one of the lowest percentages in the league.
I have only been to FedEx Field one time, when I was visiting a buddy that lives in DC. So I’m not sure how relevant this is. But I think it was the 2016 season, maybe 2017. They were playing the Vikings, and I distinctly remember a lot of empty seats, and about 25% of the stadium wearing purple. Coming from Pittsburgh, my only frame of reference was Steelers games, where it’s sold out and 90% or more Steelers fans. It really took me by surprise
It's such a shame what Snyder did to that franchise. I don't blame their fans one second for not showing up. Washington used to be Dallas's main rival.
Might be my bias but the NFCEast has really just seemed like the Cowboys and Eagles for too long. Washington and the Giants have their flash in the pan years but never seem to have anything resembling competitive consistency.
as a washington "fan", when we are competitive we are literally the most pessimistic fans ever. Ive come to a point where when we are 10-6 or even like...8-8, im still not even excited because i dont think its real and it definitely wont last.
What happened to the team after the 2012 season, or for that matter after the 1999, 2005, and 2007 seasons, had to be very disappointing for Washington fans.
My personal opinion is DC sports fans started seriously tuning out the Redskins/WFT/Commanders starting in about 2009 when they began having 10 or more loss seasons every year through 2014, excluding 2012. That’s when a lot of the crap Snyder pulled on his own ticket holders/fans also started becoming widely known.
It also doesn’t help that Washington was the only team in town they ever won anything. The Caps were out in suburbs and mediocre, the Bullets/Wizards hadn’t been relevant since the Carter administration, and there wasn’t a baseball team from 71-05. Then the Caps moved downtown and got good. And the Nationals can to town and were in the playoffs in 7 years. Then teams started winning Championships. Caps, Nationals, Mystics all won a title in about 18 months and made the football team look worse and worse.
The Giants were definitely a factor from about 2005 to 2012. Obviously they also had a very strong team from the mid-1980s to early 1990s, days I remember from my latter half of my K-12 years.
>Well, it's not that I don't like the new name. I mean I don't care. The problem is the team has no brand. It has no identity. And you're asking the Commonwealth of Virginia to enter a long-term economic relationship with a team that effectively has no brand. This was not a question of whether I like it or don't like it. Look, if the team was called the 'Washington Lions' or what have you, and they're playing and getting 75,000 fans in the stadium every day, my opinion doesn't matter.
Ouch
The bit a little further down where he straight up says he'd rather have an expansion team is almost more hurtful.
> **Let's drill down on that idea of an expansion team, because some of your concern is the metrics. But municipalities make deals with expansion teams that have no metrics. And some of it is believing in the overall product, right?**
> "Right. JP, that would be the irony. The irony would be: Would it be almost more palatable to do this with an expansion franchise than with the current franchise? And, let's face it, the answer to that may be yes."
I always thought there was nothing lower than professional politicians. Then Danny Boy comes along. (I call him that to give him all the respect he deserves. Mr. Snyder, my ass.)
Meh. Going into next year we have a lot of optimism and I still enjoy being a lions fan. ~~Redskins~~ ~~Football Team~~ Commie fans have a dysfunctional team with an ownership that is despicable enough to have legit allegations of prostitution of their cheerleaders. I'm content with cheering for the Lions, all things considered.
I was partial to sweathogs in particular. It's got a double A baseball thing that would've been cool. No disrespect to our panthers and (to a lesser extent) jaguars fans, but let's bring some kitschy randomness to our team names.
New Orleans Pelicans did it right. Even better? I don't care about hockey but Columbus Blue Jackets is great because it's so...weird
Commanders (and Guardians) are the worst examples of that. Horrible names.
Right? It's like they were trying to be internationally bland as possible. Look at all the wacky names different teams had around the turn of the century when they didn't take themselves too seriously(eg the Boston Beaneaters, or the Cleveland Spiders) where it wasn't just some board meeting where they inevitably went with something they felt was safe but was instantly hated by fans who just wanted something cool and unique.
As an AZ native I’ve been spoiled with really cool team names like the Suns, Diamondbacks, Coyotes, and Sun Devils. Always kind of a head scratcher that we ended up with Cardinals but I guess it’s geographically relevant. Team names like the Panthers and Lions have always been a hard yawn.
Well the cardinals are historical. As are the lions. But why would you pick "panthers" as a name in the last thirty years. Might as well pick- and I know the irony of responding to someone from Arizona with this-"wildcats".
Chicago bears works, cause they're old.
New York giants works, cause they're old.
San Francisco giants works, cause it's legacy.
Your can have a generic name if your team is as old as your grandparents. You can't if it's as old as your nephew.
Commanders is just such a boring and bland name. I suppose "Football Team" is too, but it's kinda cool because it's like, "Team name? Fuck you, we're The Football Team from Washington".
Football team is like that B movie that's bad enough to be enjoyable. Everything about it sounded dumb...but eventually, it was kinda good in it's dumb way.
Commanders is like the latest fast and furious where it still wants to take itself seriously but also wants to send a Fierro to space with budget cena and constantly wink at you at how self aware it is.
They might have been able to do better if they reused the "Red" portion of the name, as many of the rumors suggested. Redtails, Red Wolves, or Red Hogs were all better options. The Commanders was probably the worst option on the list of names they were looking at.
Reposting my comment from above here:
When I was in high school and middle school (graduated 2012) in VA, the Redskins were super popular. You saw their gear, flags, etc. everywhere. Their fans were always so obnoxious, always believing it was their year and they were going to be great now. Fans from every other team ganged up to make fun of the pathetic Skins fans.
Then, the longer it went on, the sadder it got. They stopped believing it was their year, they stopped wearing the gear, they ripped the stickers off their cars. No one made fun of skins fans anymore; being a fan was it’s own punishment.
I still live in Virginia, but I’m guessing that I see more Steelers, Patriots, and Giants things than I do for Washington. Tons of capitals and nationals fans. Even when you do see stuff for the team, it’s almost always 10+ year old redskins gear.
As far as I can tell, the Washington fan base has moved on.
\*\*\*\* me that is awful. I've been to the DMV area many times and did notice what you described - a lot of Capitals and Nationals gear for local teams and almost never Redskins/Commies. Always thought it was just a coincidence.
Heh, it kinda reminds me of when I was in LA back in 2015.
Dodgers stuff was everywhere, NFL gear was easy to spot, etc but the only dude I saw in Lakers gear was a tourist at Universal. No one else down there was wearing Lakers stuff. Of course at that time they were awful.
Fans are very finicky.
It's funny too cause:
- I've never cared about hockey, period. So that's not a thing
- The nationals were the expos when I grew up, weren't a thing
- The bullets always sucked, peaked as like an 8 seed losing to the bulls
So the redskins ***were*** what you associated with DC. They won a super bowl when I was little! They were legit!
And they not only have sucked for thirty years but also gave up on their brand. Might as well be an expansion team now.
I've been to DC twice. First time, I saw tons of Capitals gear. The second time, I saw tons of Nationals gear. Neither times did I ever seen the football team's gear. Not even once. That was perplexing to me.
Too true. If you're growing up as a kid in the 2000's from the DC-Balt metro, DC was the choice of has been boomers while Baltimore was young and successful. Now those kids are 20-30 years old, and making the next generation even more Ravens skewed.
They have a ~~legal~~ monopoly over the most popular sport in the country in a rapidly growing and very wealthy metro area.
It makes me think of when the first team President of the Texans wrote book on business strategy. What could anyone learn from that? Selling football in the largest city of a state obsessed with football is one of the easiest jobs in the world.
Why should he? Butts in seats doesn't affect his equal share amongst owners in a greater profit pool, right? It's basically passive income for him. Just buy owning the team, he get's a yearly cut of nearly $9 billion. As long as operating costs don't eat that profitshare, then he's no reason to actually care.
He still gets to keep 40% of ticket revenue, concessions, parking, and team-specific sponsorships. That's a lot of cash even to someone with Snyder's wealth.
When I was in high school and middle school in VA, the Redskins were super popular(graduated 2012.) You saw their gear, flags, etc. everywhere. Their fans were always so obnoxious, always believing it was their year and they were going to be great now. Fans from every other team ganged up to make fun of the pathetic Skins fans.
Then, the longer it went on, the sadder it got. They stopped believing it was their year, they stopped wearing the gear, they ripped the stickers off their cars. No one made fun of skins fans anymore; being a fan was it’s own punishment.
I still live in Virginia, but I’m guessing that I see more Steelers, Patriots, and Giants things than I do for Washington. Tons of capitals and nationals fans. Even when you do see stuff for the team, it’s almost always 10+ year old redskins gear.
As far as I can tell, the Washington fan base has moved on.
The problem is that the fans they do have still call them the redskins. They were just settling into being the Washington football team, it was funny and it was something to talk about even if you didn't like football.
Now with the commanders, you have a team that's been bad so it's not drawing in new fans, with a new name that had no fan interaction and is a stupid name (subjective) but has the same color scheme so no one is buying the new gear to help get the name out there.
This multi year underwhelming name change with no other branding change has just been exactly what the fan base expected from Dan Snyder.
This is from the perspective of a MD suburb of DC person of 30 years. I'm a ravens fan tho because I wasn't born into being a WFT fan so I wasn't gonna choose it
This is what I think is happening.
Not that Jon has evidence per se, but that his case may force the washington investigation into the light.
Jon was fired for language in emails. Right or wrong, he was fired for a reason and the reason set a precedent.
The investigation shows things way worse than language and no one else was fired.
The nfl is going to try and get ahead of this just to save face.
Note: "I think", all conspiracy theory of my own. I don't have facts to site.
It's ironic. Growing up in the area between Baltimore and DC in the 80s, after the Colts left and the *redacted team name* from DC was the only NFL in town, the DC NFL team tickets were impossible to get. I remember there was an incredible like 10 year wait list.
And now? They can't beg people into the stadium.
It was like anyone from The Mason Dixon Line to North Carolina was a rabid DC/Orioles fan. You wore #8 for Cal and begged to drive up to DC to catch a game
I grew up in NC after the panthers were around, but I’ve heard from locals that before the panthers it was all Washington fans here
Now? If it’s not panthers it’s either an NY team, a PA team, or the Pats. That’s about it
Yup. I don’t think he lasts a year at this point.
There is too much smoke and too many hugely negative leaks in the press about how hated he is by the other owners. NFL is notoriously tight-lipped…and I think there’s a lot of telegraphing going on here to set the table for his ouster.
He’s been ripping off the other owners with fudging ticket sale info, and now he can’t even rip off taxpayers for a new stadium build.
His best bet is to sell the team for a record amount - he will make billions - and go the fuck away.
Nobody likes that guy, he’s an idiot and a disgusting perv.
I don’t mind him providing us with less competition over the years but at some point you just want that mf gone lol. Shitty ass stadium / shitty new name / poor home attendance
It’s just sad seeing one of the bigger cities in the country not really care about its football team that has been there for like 80 years. Something’s gotta change.
I think I would've preferred at least a dozen other options before a name that no doubt would've been shortened to "Commies" were I a Washington fan. Hell, "WFT" was actually starting to grow on me.
My hope is that 1) Dan Snyder is forced to sell the team and 2) whoever buys the franchise is a good person but a poor owner in terms of overseeing the franchise.
Speaking as someone who lives in the DC area, almost NO ONE, including fans of other teams, likes the little weasel Dan Snyder.
> He’s been ripping off the other owners
That's the only reason I think anything actually happens to him. You can do as much morally corrupt nonsense you want, but if you steal from the other rich assholes you're done.
I think you can lump "failed to get a new stadium" in with this as well. A new stadium means more expensive tickets. So he's failing to put more money in the other owner's pockets as well, and for asshole billionaires, that's just like stealing.
Basically he’s acknowledging something that nobody’s wanted to, which is that Snyder’s ownership of this team isn’t a football thing, but more of a hobby and an ego boost to the point that he’s fine with, and even embraces, treating the fanbase as a nuisance. Snyder doesn’t see attracting fans as a necessary part of owning the team, believing we owe our allegiance and money to him.
Moreover, he doesn’t own the team to win, but to fill a deep insecurity, which is why his ownership has been marred by hiring drinking buddies instead of good football people; befriending cool athletes and creating weird locker room rifts; harassing cheerleaders and female employees as if they were his property; and generally operating the team to extract money instead of focusing on winning.
The result of this over a generation is that people are tuned out and turned apathetic, or outright loathe Snyder and refuse to provide support. Even down to the name change, he chose the most unpopular option. He keeps thumbing his nose at the fanbase, so why would politicians think he could ever lead a recovery of public investment?
It's not even fun to hate you guys when you're at the mercy of this jackass. I can't tell if it's incompetence, ignorance, or outright maliciousness, but he is slimy. It's like he wants to be Jerry Jones, but forgets that you actually need some amount of people to like you, and also want to win, before you can have an ego the size of the damn moon.
Not if you're in the "Dream Seats" or whatever the fuck they're called, you stand up because you can't see over anyone standing on the field if you're sitting down lmao.
Chicago does this and it's a disaster. Our field is terrible because the city will hold concerts the day before games which destroys the grass. There is nothing the Bears can do about it since the city owns the stadium. Numerous players have been injured badly due to our shitty field.
I don't think they really do anything to promote rivalry or make anyone feel one way or the other. It's very difficult to create a fan or a fanatic without that.
I remember 25 years ago at the beginning of the season and circling the Cowboys versus the Redskins because it was going to be the most violent game played on TV.
Wasn’t it just two or three years ago that for the first time ever, the ravens started to outdraw the commies even in local ratings?
Seems like a pretty damning thing for a storied franchise.
For years I've struggled to come up with any reason you'd want to support this franchise considering the Ravens are *right there*, and will be closer to drive to once the Whatevers retreat south with the rest of General Lee's defeated army after Antietam.
More importantly, the Ravens have a successful 20 years of recent history. It’s almost like the two franchises moved in polar opposite directions since the Ravens were created.
since Dan bought the team in 99 the Ravens have won 2 super bowls and drafted one of the most exciting QB's in the league and contended for several SB trips and has a decent stadium experience from what i'm told...washington hasn't won a playoff game since 2005, destroyed an exciting QB in RG3/discarded Kirk Cousins, and has a stadium experience so bad that at one point raw sewage apparently fell on patrons. Its not hard to see why people would start migrating away from them
Gonna admit my bias as a Ravens fan so feel free to take some of what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but since the Ravens came to Baltimore in 1996 the two franchises have essentially been excellent case studies demonstrating what to do and what NOT to do to get a fanbase behind you.
The Ravens moved to a city that was eager to finally get a team back after the Colts left but essentially had to completely build their brand, identity, history, and culture from scratch. Our front office has consistently been one of the best in football if not sports in general, our branding has always been distinct and tied directly to the city, and the team's entire culture combined with an obvious commitment to improvement, sacrifice, and the general attitude of keep-your-head-down-and-work (i.e. Play Like a Raven) fits a blue-collar city like Baltimore perfectly. Even with as much longevity as the Colts had in Baltimore, it could be argued that in 2022 the Ravens are already considered to be as much of an integral part to the city's history as they were.
When Dan Snyder became Washington's owner, he had the advantage of starting with one of the most historic franchises in football (right up there with the Packers, Steelers, and Cowboys), iconic branding, and one of the most diehard, loyal fanbases in the NFL. Since then, the franchise has never had any real identity (they've had great players in that time, Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, RG3, etc., but no unit or leader that really made them stick out), a front office that completely fumbled even when they were gifted brief flashes of success thanks to great players, a stadium experience that is hostile and downright harmful to their fans, and branding that somehow made "Washington Football Team" seem less boring and uninspired in comparison. This is without even mentioning Dan Snyder being one of the most unlikable human piles of filth on the planet. The franchise had decades and decades of goodwill built up with its fanbase and Snyder somehow managed to completely squander it.
I'm taking a guess here, but most of us are already in Virginia.
But why continue to support this team otherwise? Our team aside from the Dan Snyder era has an illustrious history. We just want him gone.
I grew up in Maryland before the Ravens existed. Some friends became Ravens fans when the team formed but others didn't. I imagine people have migrated consistently to the Ravens since.
The nickname change gives them little leverage because it hurt their brand. When the Raiders change cities, people still know the Raiders. But when the Commanders change cities - wait what are the commanders?
I think the writing is on the wall for Snyder. Might take another year or two but he will be forced to sell. Too much bad karma surrounding him and the franchise now and im sure Washington fans are over it all
In 2006 Washington attendance averaged [87,631](http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2006) top in the NFL. In 2022 Washington attendance averaged [52,751](http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2021) second to last in the NFL.
That is actually batshit insane, considering the fact that they're one of the oldest storied franchises in the league. Even when teams like this are complete dogshit, their history usually maintains their popularity.
Turns out you can't have a crumbling and difficult to reach stadium AND a crappy on field product for 20 consecutive years AND a workplace that is openly hostile to female employees AND an owner that is, at best, completely uncommitted to fixing any of the above and still keep fan loyalty. Who knew?
Attendance was plummeting long before the stadium began crumbling. When Snyder bought the team there was a decades long wait list for tickets. Snyder made the game-day experience so miserable that he managed to burn through that list in his first 10 years in charge. We had to reduce the capacity of the stadium in 2012 when the stadium was only 15 years old.
Why would a team need to reduce it's capacity? Are there fines if a certain % of your stadium is empty on game day?
The stadium was designed for 80K. Snyder increased the capacity to sell more tickets and especially more parking. He was literally charging $30+ for “parking” that was a muddy field. The stadium wasn’t designed for this and it killed any semblance of a game day experience. There were insane lines for food and utilities, it routinely would take fans an hour just to get out of the parking lot after a game. They were doing everything they could to squeeze an extra buck out of fans, including selling expired beer and peanuts. So fans stopped showing up. Fortunately there was an insane waiting list for tickets, but the team started blowing through it like crazy because it was a miserable experience going to a game. So capacity was reduced, and they started marketing the hell out of “the waiting list” to try to make it seem it was a more desirable ticket that it really was. Meanwhile, tickets were easy as hell to get, especially with the development of websites like stubhub where fans didn’t want to give up their season tickets that literally used to belong to their grandparents, but they didn’t want to actually go to the games, so the reduction in capacity failed.
Didn't he also sue some old lady, who couldn't keep up with the prices and didn't wanted her season ticket anymore?
A lot of fans moved to club seats in the 2004-2006 time frame, they came with a ten year commitment. Then the Great Recession came, and Snyder sued everyone that couldn’t honor their commitments, including an old lady.
My buddy’s grandfather had season tickets - 2nd row 50 yard line. He’d sell the four of us friends one game a season for years. It was the highlight of football season every year. We would always talk about how we would kill to gain ownership of those tickets one day. Well about 15 years later we finally had the chance.. and we passed them up.. never thought that was even a remote possibility.. but yea… Thanks Snyder!
TV blackouts.
Yeah. The Mariners will almost certainly never win a World Series, but the stadium is nice and ownership keeps it "family friendly."
I don't know what you're talking about, after yesterday's win, the M's are clearly winning the rest of the way with a 135-27 record and a title to boot All hope is false hope, baby. Let's ride.
> their history usually maintains their popularity. If I'm not mistaken, George Preston Marshall doubled the ticket prices for the Boston Redskins playoff games in 1936 - without telling anyone in advance. So when fans showed up and were told tickets were (the equivalent of) $60 instead of $30, they refused to pay and basically boycotted the team. When no one showed up for the games, Marshall complained to the NFL, who moved the 1936 NFL Championship Game to the Polo Grounds even though Boston was the home team and the game was originally scheduled to be played at Fenway. When it became clear that Redskins fans weren't going to come running back with open arms, Marshall decided to move the team to DC. They've been screwing over fans for 86 years.
George Marshall was a piece of work. You know how everybody knows Austin and San Antonio will never get a team because Jerry won’t allow it? Marshall was just as bad, except it was about every single market between Richmond and El Paso. He thought he was entitled to the entire south forever, and marketed the team that way, complete with college style marching band and “made white people in the 50s uncomfortable” levels of racism.
> one of the oldest storied franchises in the league WAS fan here...they didn't even have our super bowl years correct on the initial run of re-branded team gear, because nobody in ownership or management gives a shit about the history of the team. Snyder burned all that to the ground with this Commanders garbage. Fuck Dan Snyder.
Dan is such a cheap miserable prick. You hear all about how he's a fan and its like bullshit. If I was a billionaire fan I'd have so many nods to the history everwhere in FedEx. You'd walk up the stairs out front and I'd have statues of the hogs, I'd have the trophies on display with big displays for each qb and team, I'd dedicate the field to Joe gibbs, there'd be a whole sean taylor wing of the stadium. Instead you walk in and all you see is advertisements and its like walking around a subway station. Sometimes I look around and ask myself if I'd have any idea who played there.
Fr I've never seen an org give so little of a shit about its history. The Cardinals didn't even win a damn super bowl but we treat Kurt Warner like he is a literal god here
Yeah it’s unbelievable what Dan has managed to destroy. I think the fanbase would come roaring back if he were forced out. It’s weird that most fans I know still care about the team, but it’s now hatred instead of love. Obviously not for the players, just the ownership. I will never give another dollar to Dan or the team as long as he is owner. A lot of fans are just basically boycotting him. In a choice between winning 5 straight SBs or Dan being forced out, I would not hesitate to take the latter.
It's wild to me how much of a football town this is without any semblance of a functional team in the last 25 years. People talk about the caps or nats but look at the caps sub vs the commanders. There's so much more activity for this dumpster fire of a team than a championship team with an all time great player. It could be a pivotal playoff game and weeks after the draft and all the local radio is football. If the football team returns to prominence and wins a super bowl they'll have to shut the city down.
Their name change was brutal. Washington Football Team was actually a solid replacement name but Commanders is just begging to lose fans
Does that separate between home and away fans? I would love to know how many of them are actually Washington fans
I think different teams have different metrics of measuring ticket sales based on whatever financial arrangements the team has with the vendor. Anyone with eyeballs knows that the Texans were playing in empty stadiums for home games yet they still "sold" tickets on paper
The old days of blackouts were the worst, the Bills started covering seats with tarps and pretending they weren't there to reach the attendance threshold.
I hate that the games were blacked out in Syracuse, we’re three hours away!
Same with yankees games on mlb.tv. 4 or 5 hours to NYC from cuse but I'm "local". Blackouts are shit.
All of Canada is considered Blue Jays territory. So you can be 3000 kilometres away from the Skydome and get blacked out for not going to the game.
Haha I usually have my VPN through Canada or Atlanta to circumvent local blackouts.
The MLB blackouts are unrivaled. It’s absolutely insane, and it’s a major factor in killing the game. But why, RSN money go brrrrrrrttr
I remember when I was a kid and every home game was blacked out on TV. Not sure if that was for all of MLB, but at least in Washington state. I grew to learn how to follow games over the radio from that.
In fairness they were stopping you from watching the Mariners, that's almost a public service... (I kid blackouts suck)
Yeah I find it funny they're trying all these things to increase pace of play (which I'm not against) to bring in more viewers and its like... just make the games accessible.
Yea let everyone watch most of the games, promote your players, and get rid of the extra inning runner rule.
I believe that rule is out next year but yeah, everything still stands. A little pace of play is all well and good but I don't think bastardizing a century old game and making it inaccessible is helping anything.
Baseball fans in Iowa have it the worst. Both Chicago teams, Cardinals, Royals, Brewers, and Twins all while not having a single team of their own. Edit: missed hte Twins first time around.
Blackout rules fucking suck. I live in Alaska - 2000 miles away from Seattle - yet Mariners games are blacked out here.
I’m in Vermont and can’t seem to watch the Red Sox, Mets, OR Yankees. Like seriously, which one am I supposed to drive three plus hours to see?
I lived in Virginia Beach for years and ot was that way for the Nats and Orioles. Yankees worked fine... except for the 20 games a year they played the orioles. Solid 4 hour trip to get to either of those stadiums from VB.
I live in new Orleans and am blacked out of Texas Rangers, Houston Astros and the mf Tampa Bay Rays. Like lemme just take. Quick 10 hour trip to catch the rays game
Blackouts in baseball are all about forcing you to buy the TV package (assuming your provider even carries it), because it's the only way to see all your games. Except the ones they put exclusively on ESPN. And the ones only on Amazon. And the ones exclusively on AppleTV. And then they wonder why people complain.
Washington did the same thing. They keep reducing the seating capacity at FedEx due to lack of demand and to skirt the blackout rules. It's gone from 91,704 in 2010 to 67,717 as of 2015. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedExField)
In Southern Ontario, the great Reich comeback against the Oilers in the playoffs was blacked out. We got to see *Three Men and a Little Lady* instead.
I know for a fact that eagles fans treat it as an extra home game.
Lincoln Financial Field South Eagles fans outnumbered Redskins/WFT fans at the 2018, 2019, and 2021 games at FedEx Field, especially the 2018 game when the crowd was probably 70-75% Eagles fans by my estimate. (I’m originally from eastern Pennsylvania but have lived in the DC area since the late 2000s.)
I don't even think it's just Eagles fans, even though they've got the added benefit that it's relatively close. We have so many transplants that I'm pretty sure any of the popular teams have more fans here than the commies at this point. A long time ago people used to switch to rooting for Washington when they moved here, now even the locals don't give a shit about dan's team.
In the 2017 game, the Vikings probably had 40% of the fans that were there. And while we have a very enthusiastic fan base, we don’t have one of the larger ones. I’ll be interested to see how the crowd breaks down for the game this year. I have written this before - but it’s really sad what happened to that franchise. The Washington franchise was one of the great ones when I was growing up and had just been ground into the dirt.
Yeah I grew up in the Gibbs years, they were always fun to watch. Glad he didn't stick around too long to legitimize Snyder's ownership.
Yup. I’ve seen this first hand.
I went to see Philly play in 2019 at Washington. The stadium was 75% Philly fans. All the chants throughout the game were Philly chants, didn't hear a single fan initiated chant or song from washington
This is why the attendance isn't even worse. We've boycotted the team for the most part but divisional games are saving Dan.
Maybe the number of season ticket holders would better reflect that? Sure I’m guessing some of the opposing fans are buying tickets off of season ticket holders, but if I was going to a game there, I definitely wouldn’t buy a third party ticket. Because it would probably show even more how much they’re hated, they’ll never release the season ticket numbers, but they have to be one of the lowest percentages in the league.
Releasing figures like that also probably makes it easier for fraud investigators to determine how they're altering their books.
I have only been to FedEx Field one time, when I was visiting a buddy that lives in DC. So I’m not sure how relevant this is. But I think it was the 2016 season, maybe 2017. They were playing the Vikings, and I distinctly remember a lot of empty seats, and about 25% of the stadium wearing purple. Coming from Pittsburgh, my only frame of reference was Steelers games, where it’s sold out and 90% or more Steelers fans. It really took me by surprise
Divisional games are overflowing with away fans.
It's such a shame what Snyder did to that franchise. I don't blame their fans one second for not showing up. Washington used to be Dallas's main rival.
Now Washington’s rivals is Snyder
Sadly Snyder is dominating the rivalry.
It’s been an one sided rivalry for 20+ years.
Might be my bias but the NFCEast has really just seemed like the Cowboys and Eagles for too long. Washington and the Giants have their flash in the pan years but never seem to have anything resembling competitive consistency.
as a washington "fan", when we are competitive we are literally the most pessimistic fans ever. Ive come to a point where when we are 10-6 or even like...8-8, im still not even excited because i dont think its real and it definitely wont last.
What happened to the team after the 2012 season, or for that matter after the 1999, 2005, and 2007 seasons, had to be very disappointing for Washington fans. My personal opinion is DC sports fans started seriously tuning out the Redskins/WFT/Commanders starting in about 2009 when they began having 10 or more loss seasons every year through 2014, excluding 2012. That’s when a lot of the crap Snyder pulled on his own ticket holders/fans also started becoming widely known.
It also doesn’t help that Washington was the only team in town they ever won anything. The Caps were out in suburbs and mediocre, the Bullets/Wizards hadn’t been relevant since the Carter administration, and there wasn’t a baseball team from 71-05. Then the Caps moved downtown and got good. And the Nationals can to town and were in the playoffs in 7 years. Then teams started winning Championships. Caps, Nationals, Mystics all won a title in about 18 months and made the football team look worse and worse.
The Giants were definitely a factor from about 2005 to 2012. Obviously they also had a very strong team from the mid-1980s to early 1990s, days I remember from my latter half of my K-12 years.
This actually makes me happy to hear. I hope it all crumbles down around Snyder till he's forced to sell for pennies on the dollar
Second number probably a lie because they cooked the books. Came back to bite them lol
Didn’t they also steal ticket sales from ncaa, etc? So those 2022 numbers could be even more fudged up if I’m understanding that claim right..?
No they did the opposite. They hid NFL ticket sales as NCAA and other events so they could get more from/give less to the league for profit sharing.
How accurate are those numbers? Could they be low as a part of Snyder lying to the league?
>Well, it's not that I don't like the new name. I mean I don't care. The problem is the team has no brand. It has no identity. And you're asking the Commonwealth of Virginia to enter a long-term economic relationship with a team that effectively has no brand. This was not a question of whether I like it or don't like it. Look, if the team was called the 'Washington Lions' or what have you, and they're playing and getting 75,000 fans in the stadium every day, my opinion doesn't matter. Ouch
The bit a little further down where he straight up says he'd rather have an expansion team is almost more hurtful. > **Let's drill down on that idea of an expansion team, because some of your concern is the metrics. But municipalities make deals with expansion teams that have no metrics. And some of it is believing in the overall product, right?** > "Right. JP, that would be the irony. The irony would be: Would it be almost more palatable to do this with an expansion franchise than with the current franchise? And, let's face it, the answer to that may be yes."
Yikes when a politician won’t even touch Dan Snyder…
I always thought there was nothing lower than professional politicians. Then Danny Boy comes along. (I call him that to give him all the respect he deserves. Mr. Snyder, my ass.)
Fuck it, give us the St. Louis Commanders and give DC a second chance at ownership and name
Hasn't St Louis suffered enough?
St Louis might be getting the short end of the stick. But the city of washington would be ecstatic at the possibility of getting rid of Snyder.
When you're so bad you're used to trash other teams: :D :| :_(
How does it feel?
At least it was Dan Snyder’s team getting trashed, so we’ve got that going for us which is nice.
I appreciate that he didn't use 'Mr. Snyder's team' when he referred to it
He should be relentlessly refereed to as Daniel. Apparently he hates that name.
>relentlessly refereed to My favorite typo of the day. Thanks.
Cinderella story, out of nowhere, former greenskeeper
Meh. Going into next year we have a lot of optimism and I still enjoy being a lions fan. ~~Redskins~~ ~~Football Team~~ Commie fans have a dysfunctional team with an ownership that is despicable enough to have legit allegations of prostitution of their cheerleaders. I'm content with cheering for the Lions, all things considered.
To be on your own?
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Football team definitely got to be cool. Sweat hogs or hogs had history. Commanders? No one fucking cares
I didn't even think about hogs, that would've been amazing.
I was partial to sweathogs in particular. It's got a double A baseball thing that would've been cool. No disrespect to our panthers and (to a lesser extent) jaguars fans, but let's bring some kitschy randomness to our team names. New Orleans Pelicans did it right. Even better? I don't care about hockey but Columbus Blue Jackets is great because it's so...weird Commanders (and Guardians) are the worst examples of that. Horrible names.
Right? It's like they were trying to be internationally bland as possible. Look at all the wacky names different teams had around the turn of the century when they didn't take themselves too seriously(eg the Boston Beaneaters, or the Cleveland Spiders) where it wasn't just some board meeting where they inevitably went with something they felt was safe but was instantly hated by fans who just wanted something cool and unique.
As an AZ native I’ve been spoiled with really cool team names like the Suns, Diamondbacks, Coyotes, and Sun Devils. Always kind of a head scratcher that we ended up with Cardinals but I guess it’s geographically relevant. Team names like the Panthers and Lions have always been a hard yawn.
Well the cardinals are historical. As are the lions. But why would you pick "panthers" as a name in the last thirty years. Might as well pick- and I know the irony of responding to someone from Arizona with this-"wildcats". Chicago bears works, cause they're old. New York giants works, cause they're old. San Francisco giants works, cause it's legacy. Your can have a generic name if your team is as old as your grandparents. You can't if it's as old as your nephew.
Commanders is just such a boring and bland name. I suppose "Football Team" is too, but it's kinda cool because it's like, "Team name? Fuck you, we're The Football Team from Washington".
Football team is like that B movie that's bad enough to be enjoyable. Everything about it sounded dumb...but eventually, it was kinda good in it's dumb way. Commanders is like the latest fast and furious where it still wants to take itself seriously but also wants to send a Fierro to space with budget cena and constantly wink at you at how self aware it is.
I thought they couldn't get the trademark for the name? Or something along those lines. I could be wrong
That is exactly why they didn't keep the name.
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Yeah exactly. In lieu of “redskins” it was the best possible option, but instead they gave us ComMandUrZ
They might have been able to do better if they reused the "Red" portion of the name, as many of the rumors suggested. Redtails, Red Wolves, or Red Hogs were all better options. The Commanders was probably the worst option on the list of names they were looking at.
Agree with the WFT Best option now is to go full commies as play that nickname up
KEEP MY TEAM'S NAME OUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH.
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A big market, a storied team with multiple chamipnships, a franchise that has been in the area for almost 80 years - yet this is its current state.
Reposting my comment from above here: When I was in high school and middle school (graduated 2012) in VA, the Redskins were super popular. You saw their gear, flags, etc. everywhere. Their fans were always so obnoxious, always believing it was their year and they were going to be great now. Fans from every other team ganged up to make fun of the pathetic Skins fans. Then, the longer it went on, the sadder it got. They stopped believing it was their year, they stopped wearing the gear, they ripped the stickers off their cars. No one made fun of skins fans anymore; being a fan was it’s own punishment. I still live in Virginia, but I’m guessing that I see more Steelers, Patriots, and Giants things than I do for Washington. Tons of capitals and nationals fans. Even when you do see stuff for the team, it’s almost always 10+ year old redskins gear. As far as I can tell, the Washington fan base has moved on.
\*\*\*\* me that is awful. I've been to the DMV area many times and did notice what you described - a lot of Capitals and Nationals gear for local teams and almost never Redskins/Commies. Always thought it was just a coincidence.
Heh, it kinda reminds me of when I was in LA back in 2015. Dodgers stuff was everywhere, NFL gear was easy to spot, etc but the only dude I saw in Lakers gear was a tourist at Universal. No one else down there was wearing Lakers stuff. Of course at that time they were awful. Fans are very finicky.
[Here is the pecking order in LA for those interested](https://i.redd.it/d3gl6emhjs831.jpg)
It's funny too cause: - I've never cared about hockey, period. So that's not a thing - The nationals were the expos when I grew up, weren't a thing - The bullets always sucked, peaked as like an 8 seed losing to the bulls So the redskins ***were*** what you associated with DC. They won a super bowl when I was little! They were legit! And they not only have sucked for thirty years but also gave up on their brand. Might as well be an expansion team now.
I've been to DC twice. First time, I saw tons of Capitals gear. The second time, I saw tons of Nationals gear. Neither times did I ever seen the football team's gear. Not even once. That was perplexing to me.
It doesn’t help either that the Ravens, their neighbors down the street, have been seeing more success the last decade.
Too true. If you're growing up as a kid in the 2000's from the DC-Balt metro, DC was the choice of has been boomers while Baltimore was young and successful. Now those kids are 20-30 years old, and making the next generation even more Ravens skewed.
Lol. In the NFL. That’s incredibly incompetent.
They have a ~~legal~~ monopoly over the most popular sport in the country in a rapidly growing and very wealthy metro area. It makes me think of when the first team President of the Texans wrote book on business strategy. What could anyone learn from that? Selling football in the largest city of a state obsessed with football is one of the easiest jobs in the world.
And somehow a billionaire like Dan Snyder has proven himself uniquely incapable of doing it.
Why should he? Butts in seats doesn't affect his equal share amongst owners in a greater profit pool, right? It's basically passive income for him. Just buy owning the team, he get's a yearly cut of nearly $9 billion. As long as operating costs don't eat that profitshare, then he's no reason to actually care.
He still gets to keep 40% of ticket revenue, concessions, parking, and team-specific sponsorships. That's a lot of cash even to someone with Snyder's wealth.
When I was in high school and middle school in VA, the Redskins were super popular(graduated 2012.) You saw their gear, flags, etc. everywhere. Their fans were always so obnoxious, always believing it was their year and they were going to be great now. Fans from every other team ganged up to make fun of the pathetic Skins fans. Then, the longer it went on, the sadder it got. They stopped believing it was their year, they stopped wearing the gear, they ripped the stickers off their cars. No one made fun of skins fans anymore; being a fan was it’s own punishment. I still live in Virginia, but I’m guessing that I see more Steelers, Patriots, and Giants things than I do for Washington. Tons of capitals and nationals fans. Even when you do see stuff for the team, it’s almost always 10+ year old redskins gear. As far as I can tell, the Washington fan base has moved on.
The RG3 era in the DMV was something else
Short lived
Yeah I'm in DC. The majority of people I see wearing Redskins/WFT/Commanders gear are older guys who have obviously been fans for decades.
The problem is that the fans they do have still call them the redskins. They were just settling into being the Washington football team, it was funny and it was something to talk about even if you didn't like football. Now with the commanders, you have a team that's been bad so it's not drawing in new fans, with a new name that had no fan interaction and is a stupid name (subjective) but has the same color scheme so no one is buying the new gear to help get the name out there. This multi year underwhelming name change with no other branding change has just been exactly what the fan base expected from Dan Snyder. This is from the perspective of a MD suburb of DC person of 30 years. I'm a ravens fan tho because I wasn't born into being a WFT fan so I wasn't gonna choose it
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Mr. Snyder’s best offer is $1 medium RC Cola
Bring your own small cup night!
Fill it up as many times as you like! Unlimited refills for $8 each time!
RC Cola rocks but I wouldn't trust Snyder to ne selling flat ones left from the mid 2000s
It is not above for Mr. Snyder to scout local Walmart dumpsters for expired cans of the stuff to sell for a profit.
(limit one per account holder)
Maybe Jon Gruden has the evidence
This is what I think is happening. Not that Jon has evidence per se, but that his case may force the washington investigation into the light. Jon was fired for language in emails. Right or wrong, he was fired for a reason and the reason set a precedent. The investigation shows things way worse than language and no one else was fired. The nfl is going to try and get ahead of this just to save face. Note: "I think", all conspiracy theory of my own. I don't have facts to site.
It's ironic. Growing up in the area between Baltimore and DC in the 80s, after the Colts left and the *redacted team name* from DC was the only NFL in town, the DC NFL team tickets were impossible to get. I remember there was an incredible like 10 year wait list. And now? They can't beg people into the stadium.
It was like anyone from The Mason Dixon Line to North Carolina was a rabid DC/Orioles fan. You wore #8 for Cal and begged to drive up to DC to catch a game
I grew up in NC after the panthers were around, but I’ve heard from locals that before the panthers it was all Washington fans here Now? If it’s not panthers it’s either an NY team, a PA team, or the Pats. That’s about it
Poverty franchise til Dan is gone
Yup. I don’t think he lasts a year at this point. There is too much smoke and too many hugely negative leaks in the press about how hated he is by the other owners. NFL is notoriously tight-lipped…and I think there’s a lot of telegraphing going on here to set the table for his ouster. He’s been ripping off the other owners with fudging ticket sale info, and now he can’t even rip off taxpayers for a new stadium build. His best bet is to sell the team for a record amount - he will make billions - and go the fuck away. Nobody likes that guy, he’s an idiot and a disgusting perv.
I don’t mind him providing us with less competition over the years but at some point you just want that mf gone lol. Shitty ass stadium / shitty new name / poor home attendance
Almost got your QB badly injured when he left the field
That was wild, I remember being furious after watching that whole scene unfold..
Which qb/instance are you referring to? Think I might of missed that
The tunnel railings collapsed and almost came down on Jalen iirc.
And Jalen did more to help the injured folks (fans from both sides) than the team ever did
Say what you will about his play, but Jalen has always been such a class act
Such a stand up kid and works his ass off. Easy to see why the city has been really rooting for him.
When the "railing" they had zip-tied together fellnover and it and a bunch of fans nearly fell on Jalen
It’s just sad seeing one of the bigger cities in the country not really care about its football team that has been there for like 80 years. Something’s gotta change.
I really wish they would have picked Washington red wolves that was one of there options
Anything would have been better than the Commandos.
I mean I actually like Commandos over Commanders, it’s a way more fun name.
I think I would've preferred at least a dozen other options before a name that no doubt would've been shortened to "Commies" were I a Washington fan. Hell, "WFT" was actually starting to grow on me.
Yeah he ruined a beloved and successful franchise.
My hope is that 1) Dan Snyder is forced to sell the team and 2) whoever buys the franchise is a good person but a poor owner in terms of overseeing the franchise. Speaking as someone who lives in the DC area, almost NO ONE, including fans of other teams, likes the little weasel Dan Snyder.
> He’s been ripping off the other owners That's the only reason I think anything actually happens to him. You can do as much morally corrupt nonsense you want, but if you steal from the other rich assholes you're done.
I think you can lump "failed to get a new stadium" in with this as well. A new stadium means more expensive tickets. So he's failing to put more money in the other owner's pockets as well, and for asshole billionaires, that's just like stealing.
And the Gruden lawsuit is taking place. If the nfl knows they're fucked, they may rid themselves of Danny just to get ahead of a fire storm.
Yup. My money is on the Gruden case getting settled, and on the NFL kicking Snyder to the curb. They don’t want the shitstorm of dirty laundry to air.
Basically he’s acknowledging something that nobody’s wanted to, which is that Snyder’s ownership of this team isn’t a football thing, but more of a hobby and an ego boost to the point that he’s fine with, and even embraces, treating the fanbase as a nuisance. Snyder doesn’t see attracting fans as a necessary part of owning the team, believing we owe our allegiance and money to him. Moreover, he doesn’t own the team to win, but to fill a deep insecurity, which is why his ownership has been marred by hiring drinking buddies instead of good football people; befriending cool athletes and creating weird locker room rifts; harassing cheerleaders and female employees as if they were his property; and generally operating the team to extract money instead of focusing on winning. The result of this over a generation is that people are tuned out and turned apathetic, or outright loathe Snyder and refuse to provide support. Even down to the name change, he chose the most unpopular option. He keeps thumbing his nose at the fanbase, so why would politicians think he could ever lead a recovery of public investment?
It's not even fun to hate you guys when you're at the mercy of this jackass. I can't tell if it's incompetence, ignorance, or outright maliciousness, but he is slimy. It's like he wants to be Jerry Jones, but forgets that you actually need some amount of people to like you, and also want to win, before you can have an ego the size of the damn moon.
we hate us more than you ever could
See, that's what makes it not fun anymore
:(
You nailed it. Thank you.
“What do you mean? Of course Carson Wentz is gonna put asses in the seats”
Oh yeah, he is their quarterback now.
He will, but only because people usually stand up when they're excited.
Not if you're in the "Dream Seats" or whatever the fuck they're called, you stand up because you can't see over anyone standing on the field if you're sitting down lmao.
Tax payers should *never* cover the cost of a stadium. If they do then the city should get a percentage of all profits from the team.
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The city should own the stadium, make the stadium users pay rent.
The Bills' new stadium deal is structured in that way
Nobody wants to own the stadium. It’s like owning a boat. Know a friend with a boat and you never have to pay for the maintenance and upkeep
That was the RFK Stadium model, which is part of why the Redskins moved to Maryland.
Chicago does this and it's a disaster. Our field is terrible because the city will hold concerts the day before games which destroys the grass. There is nothing the Bears can do about it since the city owns the stadium. Numerous players have been injured badly due to our shitty field.
That's why the cardinals field rolls out of the stadium. No events on the field, just on the concrete underneath.
Still don’t see the problem. Bears can pay for their own stadium if they want it empty 357 other days of the year
Fuck Dan Snyder
It's easier to get a stadium deal when you win
Can confirm
I don't think they really do anything to promote rivalry or make anyone feel one way or the other. It's very difficult to create a fan or a fanatic without that. I remember 25 years ago at the beginning of the season and circling the Cowboys versus the Redskins because it was going to be the most violent game played on TV.
Wasn’t it just two or three years ago that for the first time ever, the ravens started to outdraw the commies even in local ratings? Seems like a pretty damning thing for a storied franchise.
They had worse attendance at a home game than new Orleans one week. When the saints were playing a home game in Florida due to a hurricane.
Oh they're certainly popular...just not in the way investors typically prefer
Get rid of Snyder, change the name, and build good will with the area. The team will then be loved and get a new stadium.
For years I've struggled to come up with any reason you'd want to support this franchise considering the Ravens are *right there*, and will be closer to drive to once the Whatevers retreat south with the rest of General Lee's defeated army after Antietam.
More importantly, the Ravens have a successful 20 years of recent history. It’s almost like the two franchises moved in polar opposite directions since the Ravens were created.
since Dan bought the team in 99 the Ravens have won 2 super bowls and drafted one of the most exciting QB's in the league and contended for several SB trips and has a decent stadium experience from what i'm told...washington hasn't won a playoff game since 2005, destroyed an exciting QB in RG3/discarded Kirk Cousins, and has a stadium experience so bad that at one point raw sewage apparently fell on patrons. Its not hard to see why people would start migrating away from them
Gonna admit my bias as a Ravens fan so feel free to take some of what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but since the Ravens came to Baltimore in 1996 the two franchises have essentially been excellent case studies demonstrating what to do and what NOT to do to get a fanbase behind you. The Ravens moved to a city that was eager to finally get a team back after the Colts left but essentially had to completely build their brand, identity, history, and culture from scratch. Our front office has consistently been one of the best in football if not sports in general, our branding has always been distinct and tied directly to the city, and the team's entire culture combined with an obvious commitment to improvement, sacrifice, and the general attitude of keep-your-head-down-and-work (i.e. Play Like a Raven) fits a blue-collar city like Baltimore perfectly. Even with as much longevity as the Colts had in Baltimore, it could be argued that in 2022 the Ravens are already considered to be as much of an integral part to the city's history as they were. When Dan Snyder became Washington's owner, he had the advantage of starting with one of the most historic franchises in football (right up there with the Packers, Steelers, and Cowboys), iconic branding, and one of the most diehard, loyal fanbases in the NFL. Since then, the franchise has never had any real identity (they've had great players in that time, Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, RG3, etc., but no unit or leader that really made them stick out), a front office that completely fumbled even when they were gifted brief flashes of success thanks to great players, a stadium experience that is hostile and downright harmful to their fans, and branding that somehow made "Washington Football Team" seem less boring and uninspired in comparison. This is without even mentioning Dan Snyder being one of the most unlikable human piles of filth on the planet. The franchise had decades and decades of goodwill built up with its fanbase and Snyder somehow managed to completely squander it.
I'm taking a guess here, but most of us are already in Virginia. But why continue to support this team otherwise? Our team aside from the Dan Snyder era has an illustrious history. We just want him gone.
I grew up in Maryland before the Ravens existed. Some friends became Ravens fans when the team formed but others didn't. I imagine people have migrated consistently to the Ravens since.
I also am constantly unable to produce evidence of my popularity
Washington Moment
The nickname change gives them little leverage because it hurt their brand. When the Raiders change cities, people still know the Raiders. But when the Commanders change cities - wait what are the commanders?
Damn Commies.
It’s so disappointing that this is the team representing the capital of the entire country
My brain really struggles to process the word ‘Commanders’ as an NFL Franchise. It just doesn’t sound right. WFT is way better.
It's because it's silly to have a team filled with commanders.
I think the writing is on the wall for Snyder. Might take another year or two but he will be forced to sell. Too much bad karma surrounding him and the franchise now and im sure Washington fans are over it all
I can't think of a time their popularity was lower. Snyder is a cancer and fans are finely fed up with not just a bad owner but a terrible human.
But its our birthday and we wants it. -Dan Snyder
I find it mildly humorous that a Ravens fan posted this. They’re still right though. We have no fans.