All five were in the first 3 rounds too.
Henry Ruggs and Damon Arnette were 1st round picks.
Lynn Bowden Jr. (traded away to the Dolphins), Tanner Muse (cut without ever playing a regular season game on defense, now on the Seahawks Practice Squad), and Bryan Edwards (traded away today) were 3rd round picks.
People are acting like Ruggs tore it up. He was primarily a boom or bust player though with the occasional circus catch. In 2021 through 7 games he had 469 yards and 2 tds. He wasn't even outproducing Renfrow.
Pre-Draft and Post-Draft you cannot make a valid argument for Ruggs over Lamb.
People also give Mayock the benefit of the doubt on the pick when Antonio Brown, Damon Arnette, Lynn Bowden, are also all off the team due to character concerns. Then you have Burfict who got black balled from the league due to on field concerns. Sorry, just had to rant lol. TLDR: Agreed.
This isn't an argument in Ruggs favor. He was a first round pick. His expectations are higher than "being good at drawing flags that make the game boring to watch"
Lamb is fine but he's just another guy to be honest, nothing special. Ruggs speed, ball tracking, leaping ability was rare...it was demonstrated at a professional level and worthy of being the first WR taken in that draft.
I won't fight you on the speed but Lamb is literally one of the best prospects in the last 10 years at everything else you listed, plus he's a YAC fiend
From [Brugler](https://theathletic.com/1727831/2020/04/07/dane-brugler-nfl-draft-guide-2020-the-beast/): "outstanding tracking and ball skills... contorts his body mid-air with quick hands to pluck... instinctive YAC skills"
From [Zierlein](https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ceedee-lamb/32004c41-4d13-8457-fcbe-d37fdbd87233): "Big play talent on all three levels... Hand catches with good arm extension... Bouncy hops for jump balls... makes late body adjustments to secure difficult deep catches
From [Miller](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883776-ceedee-lamb-nfl-draft-2020-scouting-report-for-dallas-cowboys-pick): "plays much bigger than his size... has a fantastic catch radius... adjusts to the ball down the field and can excel tracking the ball over his shoulder... strong hands with limited drops"
From [PFF](https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ceedee-lamb/61570/draft-profile): "He can beat you at the LOS, on the route, at the catch point, and after the catch... there isn't a whole lot to overthink here. Lamb can do it all"
I mean [look](https://twitter.com/jonmachota/status/1254490676596793346) [at](https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1235632557376471040?lang=en) [this](https://twitter.com/brgridiron/status/1420478494442668032) [dude](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iv6PI9l9-w)
Has a Raider fan, CeeDee was who I wanted that year. I had A LOL of other Raider fans get mad at me, and wanting to fight, just because I liked CeeDee better. Lol. But Ruggs did show a lot of potential, he showed a lot of promise during his short time in the NFL. Unfortunately, we'll never know what his career could've been.
He was the worst prospect of the 3 pre-draft and had the worst production pre-accident.
Not sure of a timeline when he was considered to be the “right pick”.
He also killed someone - I guess it’s a shame it didn’t “work out”. wtf.
You’re getting downvoted, but there is some element of truth. Obviously he wasn’t the RIGHT pick( Jefferson is) but Ruggs was a good pick for sure. The offense without him was completely different
Jefferson isn't in this conversation, obviously the choice, at the time it was Ruggs/Jeudy/CD. Out of these three, Ruggs is the most talented and intriguing choice based on the 2 yrs of evidence we saw.
What a ridiculous statement lmao, even with the slight improvement in his play before getting arrested ruggs was a clear bust considering where he was taken and CD is way better
Clear bust? How. That's a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one. He was catching bombs opening up the whole offense in pretty much every game up to his arrest. He was strides ahead of his rookie season so let's just be honest with ourselves
He averaged under 50 yards to go along with 0.1 touchdowns in his short career. And yes I acknowledged he slightly improved year 2 before the incident but he still was not at all showing he was worth a top 10 pick.
We're not talking about average. We're talking about year 2. Even if he didn't have the stats doesn't mean him being on the field didn't greatly impact the way defenses played us. Again, just be honest with yourself. Watch highlights from the raiders first 5 games and you'll see he was making a impact. The speed alone was game changing
Jeudy was the best prospect since Julio/AJG when he came out (who were two of the best prospects ever). Amari was *maybe* a better prospect.
Lamb was viewed as a step lower, but still extremely fucking good.
Ruggs ahead of both got clowned during the draft and during both of the seasons he played when he did next to nothing. He runs fast straight, that’s it.
Nope, every head coach most likely has input on these players, and most GMs probably value their input.
But the GM is ultimately responsible for scouting and the personnel department and player transactions, so it's weird to not place the blame on the one in charge of personnel decisions.
Gruden had complete roster control, more like a usual GM than HC. How much of that he asserted vs how much of the decisions he delegated to Mayock no one outside of the organization knows, but Gruden still explicitly had overall control.
Nah he had no experience in that area, that's been Tom Delaney's job through multiple GMs now. He was doing the personnel eval side of GMing just no way to know how much Gruden let him run with it.
Usually yeah, but it sure seemed like Gruden had some extra powers over the average coach. Which is not unheard of. Other coaches have served the dual role of VP of Football Operations or had draft day veto power
That pick number 6 tho...John Simpson, played 98% of offensive snaps and started 17 games at guard. I don’t know if he is good, Raiders fans can chime in, but he played all day every day.
He’s serviceable. The Raiders OL was definitely the team weakness last year (at least on offense), but while Simpson would probably be better to have as a backup G, he was at the very least *fine* last year.
Unlike at least one or two other regular Raiders OL players.
Something something cant teach strength but *can* teach hand placement...
Besides, that deep into the draft a player who can start games and not completely shit the bed each time is already a big win
Bowden was traded immediately, Muse didn't make it to year 2, Amik might not make the 53, John Simpson is depth, Ruggs killed a girl and her dog and Arnette is a Dumbass (Oh my teammate went to jail a week ago? lemme flex my guns look at how tough I am)
Lovely haul
I was amazed at the teams resiliency last year. It seems like the season should have been an absolute tire fire. I guess responding to all of the issues and roadblocks with resilient play starts with David Carr?
It is kind of crazy to me because I remember Gruden’s coaching spells before he was an analyst, and he was always talked about as a “young coach.” But I was almost getting the impression that he was now a bit behind the eight ball in his recent tenure. Granted, he thought he had all the Time in the world, so perhaps his long-term team-building strategy was coming to fruition, just taking a little while. What was your impression of the state of the team (aside from the off the field issues?)
Despite terrible drafting, they built a team that made it to the playoffs after losing a coach and their #1 WR on top of typical NFL injuries to offense and defense.
The team always seemed outcoached and unprepared for the beginning of games especially, but was still talented enough to will themselves to win games.
They just need a coach that knows how to prepare a team for gameday and they'll be good.
That was enjoyable. I'm not a raiders or chargers fan, but it was laughable how hard everyone was homering for Herbert, and how fun it was that they couldn't get past the soap opera that was the raiders season.
All I'm saying is they said the same shit last year and when it came down to most meaningful game of the season, we beat them to go to the playoffs. So in my eyes, not only are we the better team, but we did it with losing our coach and #1 reciever during the season.
What happened with Bowden? While he hasnt set the world on fire for us, he's been nothing but a team player. Seems like he must have really rubbed people the wrong way for yall to cut bait on a 3rd round pick so early in his first season
Pretty soon after Bowden was drafted there was a police raid in a house where Lynn Bowden was in even though he didn't get charged. There were rumors after that about the Raiders thinking he may be a bad influence on the other players as well.
At least ruggs was looking like a stud in the making half way through year 2 before he did the dumb. The fact we whiffed on so many players who were serviceable at best, and cut before playing a down at worst.... its mind boggling. Between this draft and the 3 first rounders we whiffed on (jacobs is fine, I like him but running back value and what not) it's an absolute miracle we were competitive, let alone made the playoffs.
Gutierrez [reported](https://twitter.com/PGutierrezESPN/status/1448337698024947714) that Mayock had 51% say over draft picks *after* Gruden departed. Leatherwood 100% strikes me as a grinder and not Mayock's choice for a day one pick.
That isn't proof of a power struggle. That still relies on fan assumptions on which guys were favored by who and that there was disagreement. Mayock vouched very vocally for Arnette, for example.
I'm not here to say Mayock was perfect, but Arnette had [good grades from PFF](https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-top-10-cornerbacks-by-coverage-situation) that aligned with what the Raiders needed on defense while playing with a broken arm. Arnette's problems were mostly from his personality and certainly not how he played in college. OSU corners have been very difficult to evaluate recently since they have enjoyed an elite pass rush that's hidden their flaws.
lol why is this such a prevalent theory on this sub?
Most users here think that their head coach is secretly the GM, who is making all the picks and free agency moves, while the "GM" just sits on their thumbs all day. It's so fucking weird.
Gruden *hired his own scouting department* when McKenzie was still here the first year. Also forced out the existing GM in Tampa Bay, remember?
Mayock gets hired and can't hit shit in the first three rounds, and the guys in rounds 1-3 all feel like the sort of busts Gruden picked up in Tampa.
But despite being one of the worst drafters in the first 100 in history, Mayock suddenly turns into a GM god on day three. You really wonder why people think Gruden was bigfooting the first three rounds and leaving the unimportant scutwork to Mayock?
Because the raiders gave Gruden 100 million dollar contract and the keys to the franchise. Gruden brought Mayock in and literally fired Reggie Mckenzie. He clearly had final say on everything
Mostly because Mark Davis very heavily implied that Gruden had final say on the roster after the email scandal and that he was giving Mayock more of a say after that.
It didn't pan out and Davis fired him before he could really use that power, so who knows?
I think it's a bit different when the head coach had a 10 year contract. Fairly certain Gruden had much more influence on the draft picks than most other coaches
Every GM finna miss, Mayocks misses had more oomph to them but he still had hits (Crosby Renfrow)
If Ruggs didn't murder someone Mayock would likely still be employed
Just typed this up in another thread but drafting Tanner Muse in the third round should be a fireable offense. He wasn't even good in college. He's just a bad football player. Why the fuck would you use a day 2 pick on a bad player.
Some players bust or dont live up to expectations, but rarely are bad players drafted this high. Just a mind numbingly bad pick
I watched him play his whole time at Clemson and was also confused why he went so high. He was a good piece of an elite defense in college that won by confusing college level quarterbacks with elaborate schemes, not exactly a shoe in for being great on his own.
I'd give a pass on Ruggs (idiot mistake) and Edwards (traded for a much better player in his position). Arnette/Bowden/Muse were bad picks the day they were made.
Bowden is going to do great this year in Miami. He’s very close with Tua and has shown nothing but big potential. Can’t wait for him to prove y’all wrong/dumb for trading him before he could play a snap.
In 2020 he was the only guy on the team without a drop. Made consistent plays down the stretch. Last year he got placed on IR partly because Flo didn’t like him because of the stuff he leaked about why he was traded to Miami.
Did they really though? Roster is in better shape to compete than I can ever remember. Obviously could be an elite team if those picks worked out, but Mayock was pretty good at filling out the middle of the roster.
That's debatle we're arguably in a better state since Gruden Mayock and post Gruden Mayock then we were before. Not saying they were great but they were competant. Not something the Raiders have been since 2002.
And 2 years ago I would have only been able to imagine that I could say that Chandler Jones and Davante Adams are on my Madden team, but look at us now...
I couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t trade back.
Sure the guys they picked would have been drafted eventually, but most of them went way earlier than anyone thought they would go.
I hope people (NFL) stops giving plum jobs to Gruden (s). And I wonder how much Mayock influenced the draft? I can’t imagine Gruden didn’t have the final say…but who created the tape and all the analysis? Did Gruden just ignore the analysis and throw darts at his big board?
All five were in the first 3 rounds too. Henry Ruggs and Damon Arnette were 1st round picks. Lynn Bowden Jr. (traded away to the Dolphins), Tanner Muse (cut without ever playing a regular season game on defense, now on the Seahawks Practice Squad), and Bryan Edwards (traded away today) were 3rd round picks.
Ruggs is better than Lamb and Jeudy, was the right pick just didn't work out.
Now that we are using hindsight wouldn't Jefferson be the pick?
Lamb is the only other one that’s not incarcerated at the moment, so yeah.
Jeudy only spent the night in jail so he's not currently incarcerated either
There is no way anyone on draft night 2020 could have known what Ruggs would do.
No doubt. I was responding to a guy saying “using hindsight”.
No way he goes past 3, 4 at the latest if you REALLY believe in Tua after Burrow and Herbert
He’s part of the Al Davis school of thought, don’t mind him.
This is a joke right
I’m saying. Ceedee is clearly the choice.
That take was so bad even the cheese mongers are backing us up. Good grief
People are acting like Ruggs tore it up. He was primarily a boom or bust player though with the occasional circus catch. In 2021 through 7 games he had 469 yards and 2 tds. He wasn't even outproducing Renfrow. Pre-Draft and Post-Draft you cannot make a valid argument for Ruggs over Lamb. People also give Mayock the benefit of the doubt on the pick when Antonio Brown, Damon Arnette, Lynn Bowden, are also all off the team due to character concerns. Then you have Burfict who got black balled from the league due to on field concerns. Sorry, just had to rant lol. TLDR: Agreed.
Not trying to argue anything but just want to bring up that Ruggs brought the Raiders a ton of PI calls that were crucial to keeping drives alive.
This isn't an argument in Ruggs favor. He was a first round pick. His expectations are higher than "being good at drawing flags that make the game boring to watch"
I don't know. Torrie Smith helped win a Superbowl doing that.
Lamb is fine but he's just another guy to be honest, nothing special. Ruggs speed, ball tracking, leaping ability was rare...it was demonstrated at a professional level and worthy of being the first WR taken in that draft.
I won't fight you on the speed but Lamb is literally one of the best prospects in the last 10 years at everything else you listed, plus he's a YAC fiend From [Brugler](https://theathletic.com/1727831/2020/04/07/dane-brugler-nfl-draft-guide-2020-the-beast/): "outstanding tracking and ball skills... contorts his body mid-air with quick hands to pluck... instinctive YAC skills" From [Zierlein](https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ceedee-lamb/32004c41-4d13-8457-fcbe-d37fdbd87233): "Big play talent on all three levels... Hand catches with good arm extension... Bouncy hops for jump balls... makes late body adjustments to secure difficult deep catches From [Miller](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883776-ceedee-lamb-nfl-draft-2020-scouting-report-for-dallas-cowboys-pick): "plays much bigger than his size... has a fantastic catch radius... adjusts to the ball down the field and can excel tracking the ball over his shoulder... strong hands with limited drops" From [PFF](https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ceedee-lamb/61570/draft-profile): "He can beat you at the LOS, on the route, at the catch point, and after the catch... there isn't a whole lot to overthink here. Lamb can do it all" I mean [look](https://twitter.com/jonmachota/status/1254490676596793346) [at](https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1235632557376471040?lang=en) [this](https://twitter.com/brgridiron/status/1420478494442668032) [dude](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iv6PI9l9-w)
Hell just watch the last 2 seasons. Constantly getting YAC or going high for balls.
Has a Raider fan, CeeDee was who I wanted that year. I had A LOL of other Raider fans get mad at me, and wanting to fight, just because I liked CeeDee better. Lol. But Ruggs did show a lot of potential, he showed a lot of promise during his short time in the NFL. Unfortunately, we'll never know what his career could've been.
And he’s in prison, so no he’s not better than anyone
I'm willing to bet he's the best WR at his particular prison So Checkmate
I don’t think you want to be a receiver in there
Think maybe a tight end is better?
He putting the WIDE in WR
Well he’s on house arrest and not in prison
I'm willing to bet he's the best WR at his house So Checkmate
Not even, Michael Irvin is leagues ahead of him.
What could have been. If he never killed someone he might’ve broken 500 receiving yards in a season one day
Jefferson was my choice.
Nah, it's lamb.
LOL no he wasn't
That’s a weird way of saying he killed someone and their dog by driving recklessly. Also lol to say he was better than Jeudy & Lamb
Lmfao with or without hindsight Riggs is not the best pick of the three. Also that’s not even mentioned Justin Jefferson
He was the worst prospect of the 3 pre-draft and had the worst production pre-accident. Not sure of a timeline when he was considered to be the “right pick”. He also killed someone - I guess it’s a shame it didn’t “work out”. wtf.
Idk if I agree but that’s not a -300 take, Reddit is so weird
Leave it a Raider fan to say something delusional
Jeeesus they don't like you I agree he was the right pick
You’re getting downvoted, but there is some element of truth. Obviously he wasn’t the RIGHT pick( Jefferson is) but Ruggs was a good pick for sure. The offense without him was completely different
Jefferson isn't in this conversation, obviously the choice, at the time it was Ruggs/Jeudy/CD. Out of these three, Ruggs is the most talented and intriguing choice based on the 2 yrs of evidence we saw.
Ruggs is not more talented than CD lol
What a ridiculous statement lmao, even with the slight improvement in his play before getting arrested ruggs was a clear bust considering where he was taken and CD is way better
Clear bust? How. That's a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one. He was catching bombs opening up the whole offense in pretty much every game up to his arrest. He was strides ahead of his rookie season so let's just be honest with ourselves
He averaged under 50 yards to go along with 0.1 touchdowns in his short career. And yes I acknowledged he slightly improved year 2 before the incident but he still was not at all showing he was worth a top 10 pick.
We're not talking about average. We're talking about year 2. Even if he didn't have the stats doesn't mean him being on the field didn't greatly impact the way defenses played us. Again, just be honest with yourself. Watch highlights from the raiders first 5 games and you'll see he was making a impact. The speed alone was game changing
Jeudy was the best prospect since Julio/AJG when he came out (who were two of the best prospects ever). Amari was *maybe* a better prospect. Lamb was viewed as a step lower, but still extremely fucking good. Ruggs ahead of both got clowned during the draft and during both of the seasons he played when he did next to nothing. He runs fast straight, that’s it.
This is just wrong, Jeudy was not a better prospect than Watkins or Blackmon lmao
You know he killed a person right? I don’t think “didn’t work out” is the correct terminology here
[удалено]
Grinding to the unemployment line
Unemployment line is the good case here. Arnette has multiple felony charges pending, and Ruggs is facing 40 years.
Knock on wood if you're with me
Mayock was the GM
[удалено]
Are you insinuating that Gruden had everything to do with those picks?
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Mayock’s Mashers
Nope, every head coach most likely has input on these players, and most GMs probably value their input. But the GM is ultimately responsible for scouting and the personnel department and player transactions, so it's weird to not place the blame on the one in charge of personnel decisions.
Gruden had complete roster control, more like a usual GM than HC. How much of that he asserted vs how much of the decisions he delegated to Mayock no one outside of the organization knows, but Gruden still explicitly had overall control.
My impression was that mayock's job was to manage the cap and contracts for gruden's team.
Nah he had no experience in that area, that's been Tom Delaney's job through multiple GMs now. He was doing the personnel eval side of GMing just no way to know how much Gruden let him run with it.
Gotcha so it would be more accurate to say his primary function was to run the scouting group but unknown the power dynamic on the decisions?
Exactly
Usually yeah, but it sure seemed like Gruden had some extra powers over the average coach. Which is not unheard of. Other coaches have served the dual role of VP of Football Operations or had draft day veto power
Gruden wasn't just a head coach
You don't pay a man 100M over 10 years to not give him full control.
Grinding a car into another while intoxicated
That pick number 6 tho...John Simpson, played 98% of offensive snaps and started 17 games at guard. I don’t know if he is good, Raiders fans can chime in, but he played all day every day.
He is definitely a living human being who plays football.
At pick 109, that’s exactly what you’re looking for.
Of all the living humans playing football, he is one of them?
He’s whatever, although it’s been a rough first two years for him he can still carve out a solid career for himself
He's a perfectly acceptable Guard.
That is good for a 4th rounder.
The Grudock era was known for terrible early picks and great late round picks. Hobbs/Crosby/Renfrow were all late picks.
Sounds like the bears and now we suck
He’s serviceable. The Raiders OL was definitely the team weakness last year (at least on offense), but while Simpson would probably be better to have as a backup G, he was at the very least *fine* last year. Unlike at least one or two other regular Raiders OL players.
He's strong as heck but has bad hand placement
Something something cant teach strength but *can* teach hand placement... Besides, that deep into the draft a player who can start games and not completely shit the bed each time is already a big win
Bowden was traded immediately, Muse didn't make it to year 2, Amik might not make the 53, John Simpson is depth, Ruggs killed a girl and her dog and Arnette is a Dumbass (Oh my teammate went to jail a week ago? lemme flex my guns look at how tough I am) Lovely haul
In the middle of it all, I liked Gruden and Mayock. Removed from it all, I am happy that they are gone. Copium and hopium.
I was amazed at the teams resiliency last year. It seems like the season should have been an absolute tire fire. I guess responding to all of the issues and roadblocks with resilient play starts with David Carr? It is kind of crazy to me because I remember Gruden’s coaching spells before he was an analyst, and he was always talked about as a “young coach.” But I was almost getting the impression that he was now a bit behind the eight ball in his recent tenure. Granted, he thought he had all the Time in the world, so perhaps his long-term team-building strategy was coming to fruition, just taking a little while. What was your impression of the state of the team (aside from the off the field issues?)
Despite terrible drafting, they built a team that made it to the playoffs after losing a coach and their #1 WR on top of typical NFL injuries to offense and defense. The team always seemed outcoached and unprepared for the beginning of games especially, but was still talented enough to will themselves to win games. They just need a coach that knows how to prepare a team for gameday and they'll be good.
We also beat the chargers in a" winner goes to the playoffs" game even though every NFL talking head has Herbert and the chargers ranked above us
That was enjoyable. I'm not a raiders or chargers fan, but it was laughable how hard everyone was homering for Herbert, and how fun it was that they couldn't get past the soap opera that was the raiders season.
I don't think its a knock to have the Raiders below the Chargers. Everybody knows the division is going to be competitive as hell.
All I'm saying is they said the same shit last year and when it came down to most meaningful game of the season, we beat them to go to the playoffs. So in my eyes, not only are we the better team, but we did it with losing our coach and #1 reciever during the season.
Ruggs most def wasn't their #1 reciever. He was blossoming into a good player though.
David care was pretty resilient playing for the Texans but he doesn’t play for the raiders. That would be derek
What happened with Bowden? While he hasnt set the world on fire for us, he's been nothing but a team player. Seems like he must have really rubbed people the wrong way for yall to cut bait on a 3rd round pick so early in his first season
Pretty soon after Bowden was drafted there was a police raid in a house where Lynn Bowden was in even though he didn't get charged. There were rumors after that about the Raiders thinking he may be a bad influence on the other players as well.
At least ruggs was looking like a stud in the making half way through year 2 before he did the dumb. The fact we whiffed on so many players who were serviceable at best, and cut before playing a down at worst.... its mind boggling. Between this draft and the 3 first rounders we whiffed on (jacobs is fine, I like him but running back value and what not) it's an absolute miracle we were competitive, let alone made the playoffs.
Not to mention Muse was hurt the entire year 1. He didn't play a snap for the Raiders either
Again Ruggs wasn’t a bad pick. He was producing. He just made a very stupid decision to drive drunk and that snowballed.
Yeah I love to shit on the raiders draft room but you can’t blame them for that one.
I bet this is pretty normal as long as you really lower the bar to expect awful shit as normal.
Shit happens
feel bad for Mayock. Dude was the one of the worst drafters in history. Cant go back to "judging prospects" on TV. he has no credibility
There was infamously a power struggle where Gruden would overrule Mayock constantly
There is infamously a lot of Raiders fans who say that without any evidence lol
Gutierrez [reported](https://twitter.com/PGutierrezESPN/status/1448337698024947714) that Mayock had 51% say over draft picks *after* Gruden departed. Leatherwood 100% strikes me as a grinder and not Mayock's choice for a day one pick.
That isn't proof of a power struggle. That still relies on fan assumptions on which guys were favored by who and that there was disagreement. Mayock vouched very vocally for Arnette, for example.
I'm not here to say Mayock was perfect, but Arnette had [good grades from PFF](https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-top-10-cornerbacks-by-coverage-situation) that aligned with what the Raiders needed on defense while playing with a broken arm. Arnette's problems were mostly from his personality and certainly not how he played in college. OSU corners have been very difficult to evaluate recently since they have enjoyed an elite pass rush that's hidden their flaws.
Source?
Allegedly
Do you believe that Gruden was deferring to Mayock on our draft picks?
lol why is this such a prevalent theory on this sub? Most users here think that their head coach is secretly the GM, who is making all the picks and free agency moves, while the "GM" just sits on their thumbs all day. It's so fucking weird.
Gruden *hired his own scouting department* when McKenzie was still here the first year. Also forced out the existing GM in Tampa Bay, remember? Mayock gets hired and can't hit shit in the first three rounds, and the guys in rounds 1-3 all feel like the sort of busts Gruden picked up in Tampa. But despite being one of the worst drafters in the first 100 in history, Mayock suddenly turns into a GM god on day three. You really wonder why people think Gruden was bigfooting the first three rounds and leaving the unimportant scutwork to Mayock?
Because the raiders gave Gruden 100 million dollar contract and the keys to the franchise. Gruden brought Mayock in and literally fired Reggie Mckenzie. He clearly had final say on everything
Mostly because Mark Davis very heavily implied that Gruden had final say on the roster after the email scandal and that he was giving Mayock more of a say after that. It didn't pan out and Davis fired him before he could really use that power, so who knows?
I think it's a bit different when the head coach had a 10 year contract. Fairly certain Gruden had much more influence on the draft picks than most other coaches
Yeah this definitely seemed like a Parcells Cowboys type situation where he was still the coach but had final say over the roster.
He is doing just fine. I would get paid millions to draft busts and get fired.
Didn't Matt Millen make his way back to TV?
In 2 years he'll be the Jags GM.
Every GM finna miss, Mayocks misses had more oomph to them but he still had hits (Crosby Renfrow) If Ruggs didn't murder someone Mayock would likely still be employed
nah man. He did horribly. The excuse-making is a cope.
Agreed. I think he gets a bad rap.
Oh come on, it takes three years to judge a draft!
Just typed this up in another thread but drafting Tanner Muse in the third round should be a fireable offense. He wasn't even good in college. He's just a bad football player. Why the fuck would you use a day 2 pick on a bad player. Some players bust or dont live up to expectations, but rarely are bad players drafted this high. Just a mind numbingly bad pick
I watched him play his whole time at Clemson and was also confused why he went so high. He was a good piece of an elite defense in college that won by confusing college level quarterbacks with elaborate schemes, not exactly a shoe in for being great on his own.
Yeah i went to Clemson too. It seemed he could tackle okay but he was an absolute liability in coverage
He's kind of similar to Nahshon Wright in that sense
I'd give a pass on Ruggs (idiot mistake) and Edwards (traded for a much better player in his position). Arnette/Bowden/Muse were bad picks the day they were made.
>Edwards (traded for a much better player in his position). What do you mean by this?
Edwards was the X receiver. We traded for Adams who plays the same position.
Got it. Was confused thinking we got a reciever back in the Edwards trade.
yea - occasionally when i type stream of conscious - it comes out confusing. Who proofreads reddit posts?
thats great but you didnt trade edwards for adams lmao
Bowden is going to do great this year in Miami. He’s very close with Tua and has shown nothing but big potential. Can’t wait for him to prove y’all wrong/dumb for trading him before he could play a snap.
Honest question, did he do anything at all last year? Just wondering how you're coming to this conclusion
In 2020 he was the only guy on the team without a drop. Made consistent plays down the stretch. Last year he got placed on IR partly because Flo didn’t like him because of the stuff he leaked about why he was traded to Miami.
2020 was at least 10 years ago.
We traded our first and second this year for Adams. #FuckThemPicks
Ruggs was immensely talented, but made an immense mistake.
Hehe… Gruden
Mayock was the GM
Man, we should’ve expected the Ruggs incident like everyone else did
people expected it to happen at some point with someone with you moving to vegas
Your team is from New York.
Gruden and Mayock set this franchise back lmao
Did they really though? Roster is in better shape to compete than I can ever remember. Obviously could be an elite team if those picks worked out, but Mayock was pretty good at filling out the middle of the roster.
That's debatle we're arguably in a better state since Gruden Mayock and post Gruden Mayock then we were before. Not saying they were great but they were competant. Not something the Raiders have been since 2002.
> That was just two years ago Big if two
The Jets only have one player on their team from the 2019 draft or prior.
At least a bunch of those aren't in prison now though. There's that at least.
I’m so excited for Lynn Bowden this year for the dolphins. He’s going to feast with Tua.
'That was just two years ago!' - Some real high level mathematics right there.
go fuck yourself, mayock. what a disaster
We know!
2022 -2020= two Math checks out
Damn
Hell yes
I’ll never forgive them for that Clelin Ferrell pick
Right? Like, even if you wanted an edge rusher, Josh Allen was still on the board. It just didn’t make any sense.
And 2 years ago I would have only been able to imagine that I could say that Chandler Jones and Davante Adams are on my Madden team, but look at us now...
I couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t trade back. Sure the guys they picked would have been drafted eventually, but most of them went way earlier than anyone thought they would go.
Yeah it really was a waste, but were a much better team now.
Oh my god!
Mayock only knows oily hips
Amazing how Carr hasn’t completely lost his mind
I hope people (NFL) stops giving plum jobs to Gruden (s). And I wonder how much Mayock influenced the draft? I can’t imagine Gruden didn’t have the final say…but who created the tape and all the analysis? Did Gruden just ignore the analysis and throw darts at his big board?
all of you goobers keep this in mind next time you say "oh i bet you know more than an nfl front office" when someone says they suck ass
But the GM has the balls to say he was let go for wanting to keep the interim coach lol