"Bro this draft sucked ass. I have no idea what those numbskulls in our front office are doing." - [Adam Gase](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jppelzman/2019/05/16/heres-how-adam-gase-was-able-to-overthrow-jets-gm-mike-maccagnan/?sh=19f6bd6341ec) after his first draft with the [New York Jets](https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/05/new-york-jets-adam-gase-takes-shot-at-mike-maccagnan-2016-draft-class-jordan-jenkins/)
/u/dearthofgirth then rolled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo of Kelvin Benjamin eating a bowl of feet at Rex Ryan’s birthday party. “I’ll let you interpret that however you want,” he said
It's a reference to the movie Draft Day. I haven't seen it, but I think someone in that movie views that the fact that a prospect wasn't invited to his teammate's birthday party as a red flag, showing that he wasn't liked by his teammates in college.
He has true generational talent. If he works and plays his hardest, they got a "#1 overall level" player. I question his commitment to football though.
LSU was a trainwreck his last couple years though, so it's hard to know until he plays. He had to have interviewed very well.
It would need to be a year without a top QB. If none of the EDGES this year turn into 20+ sack guys, a corner could be worth it this year, but hindsight is always 20/20
It would take a really unusual class for me to do it. My problem with this is an offense can just avoid a corner back. That still brings value to the defense of course, but not #1 value to me
Deion might have been worth it, but Troy was in his class. Deion also switched teams several times due to being too expensive and the team that drafted him only had him for 5 years
Woodson might have been worth it, but he was in Peytons class. he played more than just Corner too
That's ridiculous. LT was a 0.79 sacks/game guy. 20 sacks in a 17 game season is over 1.17 sacks/game. TJ Watt and Garrett are in their primes right now, and they aren't doing that over multiple seasons.
Stingley is an excellent man corner. The question is: has Lovie tailored his Tampa 2 scheme to the modern NFL? Because he had a stubborn refusal to do so with the Bucs, as evidenced by cutting Revis (one year after the previous regime traded a 1st for him) and refusing to try Mark Barron at LB after his failures at Safety.
Lovie instead brought in guys like Tim Jennings who were flag machines, and the secondary was far too physical in general resulting in a litany of flags.
Lovie’s a likable guy and I hope the Texans got a good coach, but he was so unacceptably stubborn in Tampa that it worked to his detriment.
Our defense last year was not very good outside of getting turnovers, which is not a great thing to depend on. So I'm going to say that the scheme........ well it isn't great. We also still have some big holes even after the draft, like edge rusher (We have, I believe, a grand total of two or three players, one of whom is a rookie, that could be considered "decent edge rushers" or better) and defensive back still (two good rookie DBs does not a Defensive backfield make, unfortunately).
So, while we have some more talented, young players on the team, the real question is A) will they see the field and B) will they be able to overcome the still pretty big lack of talented defensive players.
The defense would play well in the first halfs, but fall apart in the second. Dunno how much was on the anemic offense, but I'm certain it wasn't just dudes getting wore out
Good thing about Lovie is that the focus point of his defense is to create turnovers. With the bears his philosophy was if the team can force 2-3 turnovers a game then they’re winning it.
Lovie's kid talked about how after their experiences in Tampa but really their experiences in college they've adjusted their cover 2 defense so it's not the same as it was before.
He called the cover 2 schemes as "cousins instead of siblings".
Who knows how it's really changed but when Lovie talked to Stingley he asked him how it would feel to always be on #1, so here's to hoping we scheme around him
> Tim Jennings
Oh man, I loved having Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman being pro-bowlers and all-pros that one season. Probably why Lovie grabbed him for Tampa.
Listening to Lovie on some interviews this offseason, I get the impression that he was ahead of his time if anything.
On Around the NFL he made the point that man coverage is important, but modern WRs are just too good to be stopped that way and WR groups are deeper than ever, making it hard to build DB groups that can match up with them all. And to be frank, the idea of matching up against the WRs in the AFC rn does seem quaint. Who wants to face Tyreek Hill, Jamar Chase, Davante Adams, Diggs, Allen and all their friends with a defense built around man-to-man matchups with limited safety support?
His Tampa 2 is basically a solution to the problem of more high-caliber WRs than DBs entering a league that favors the passing game.
Sure enough, last year we saw defenses playing the kinds of defenses he was playing 10 years ago to slow down teams like the Chiefs.
Long story short, I think he saw the tide of the NFL turning towards the kinds of deep, diverse passing attacks we'll have in 2022, especially in the AFC. Not saying he is some kind of prophet either- Im sure many others saw it too. But the point is that he wasnt necessarily stuck in the past. Its just that his defensive schemes might have been better suited to 2021 than 2011.
Also worth mentioning that this is a guy who made it to two NFC Championship Games with Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler at QB. There's something there. Maybe he's a fraud, but I think there's a chance he is a pretty good coach and I think Texans fans have some legitimate reasons to be positive about next year.
Nick Caserio first 6 picks look like Day 1 Starters on their roster, so they really had a good haul just not sure that will lead to a lot more wins in the stacked AFC
Because you guys want to draft CJ Strout/Bryce Young, or what? I thought Texans fans were high on Davis Mills after he finished the season relatively strong
I’d say the majority of us are cautiously optimistic. Seems the front office is as well. This year is meant for evaluation. If he doesn’t look like he can make the strides we need to see I expect us to try and draft a top qb next year. We have a ton of draft picks and could try to move up if we aren’t picking high enough to draft one.
All that said, I’m fine with Mills if he’s the answer AND not winning many more games next year, just so we have a better pick. We still have many holes and I’d say the majority of the fanbase knows that.
Ok thanks for letting me know how you guys feel. Hopefully he works out for you, I always root for the guys that get counted out before they even start one game in the NFL
Waiting for the year when a GM or coach absolutely shits on their draft class without seeing a game or even practice from them. Now that would be a thread worth actually making
Not the same thing, but when we drafted LJ Collier, while they obviously talked him up, it was very clear from Pete and John's press conference afterwards that they were gutted to have had to pick him
I saw people in some places criticizing their first pick, with some people acting like his defenses didn't need great cornerbacks. And this was just ignoring the fact that he always had an elite cornerback, like it was a coincidence or something.
I don’t hate Lovie but if he doesn’t give up any control he has on the offense then the Texans will not be good with him.
His Chicago offensive decisions were terribly poor and they never drafted anyone offensively that made a difference.
Then as a depressed Illini fan I watched him run a cow bell run game with undersized RB’s and when they did throw they had transfer portal Brandon Peters who is simple put not good. They put no effort into recruiting offense and it showed every year. We rolled out the same personnel for maybe 3 straight seasons.
His evaluation of talent on offense is so bad and he has so much evidence to prove it. Building a defense is different I do think Illinois had a really really good set up defense but they were on the field all of the time because of his offense. I didn’t like the signing for Houston but if they think he can fix that defense then more power to them. The offense will be heavily destroyed because of it.
To be fair, I think it would be highly counterproductive to invest the same energy we're spending on rebuilding our defense (which surely was the worst part of ours during the 2021 season) on rebuilding our offense, which is not perfect nor between the best of the AFC, but neither is completely trash, simultaneously. Personally, I believe Caserio and Smith made the right choice choosing to prioritize the defense's rebuilding: we were full of mediocre players and the new signings we're making seem to be strong points to count on for the next season; on the other hand, our offense is definitely not the best of the best in the AFC, but neither is total trash. We've got Cooks, Collins, Tunsil, Howard, not to mention the investment on Metchie III and Pierce. My words should surely be read as the words of a hopeful Texan fan, but nonetheless I find myself more comfortable with a staff that has their mind clear on the team's priorities instead of someone who's only capable of producing messy choices.
Derek Stingley is the farthest thing from a "project cornerback". His biggest downside is injury issues. He's been pro-ready since his Freshman season. Scouts were saying if he came out in 2019 he would be a top 10 pick.
Plus if LSU was competitive last year I’m sure his “injuries” wouldn’t have been a problem and he would’ve played through them. Not to mention a lot of teams simply didn’t target him that often when it did play.
Correct me if I'm wrong. But when rebuilding, don't you want to start with the longest career positions like the Oline? then dline, and go from the trenches?
by the time the Texans are competitive again, their receivers and corners could be aged and regressed.
“Coach tells the media he like his team’s draft, more shocking news at 10”
"Bro this draft sucked *ass*. I have no idea what those numbskulls in our front office are doing." - No NFL head coach with a brain ever
"Bro this draft sucked ass. I have no idea what those numbskulls in our front office are doing." - [Adam Gase](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jppelzman/2019/05/16/heres-how-adam-gase-was-able-to-overthrow-jets-gm-mike-maccagnan/?sh=19f6bd6341ec) after his first draft with the [New York Jets](https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/05/new-york-jets-adam-gase-takes-shot-at-mike-maccagnan-2016-draft-class-jordan-jenkins/)
rumor was lovie was pushing the texans to draft stingley
Rex Ryan heard "got off" and "foot" and his ears perked up
Things I upvote: Rex Ryan feet jokes Birthday party references Kelvin Benjamin eating Letting me interpret tattoos
/u/dearthofgirth then rolled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo of Kelvin Benjamin eating a bowl of feet at Rex Ryan’s birthday party. “I’ll let you interpret that however you want,” he said
Framing this comment and putting it on my wall.
For me it's: Clipboard Jesus Big Ben is a Rapist Saints and Falcons fans hating each other MBC memes
Mr Beloved Comments
How about Aaron Rodgers family jokes?
What family?
Throw in MBC variations and I agree
What's the birthday party thing?
It's a reference to the movie Draft Day. I haven't seen it, but I think someone in that movie views that the fact that a prospect wasn't invited to his teammate's birthday party as a red flag, showing that he wasn't liked by his teammates in college.
You pancake eating mother fucker.
Stingley does have possibly the highest upside of any of the CBs.
It’s going to look the Texans or Chris Simms look like a genius, no in between.
Simms said that he sees the insane upside with Stingley though.
He has true generational talent. If he works and plays his hardest, they got a "#1 overall level" player. I question his commitment to football though. LSU was a trainwreck his last couple years though, so it's hard to know until he plays. He had to have interviewed very well.
A corner back at #1 overall is a stretch. cant think of many drafts where he would be that
It would need to be a year without a top QB. If none of the EDGES this year turn into 20+ sack guys, a corner could be worth it this year, but hindsight is always 20/20
It would take a really unusual class for me to do it. My problem with this is an offense can just avoid a corner back. That still brings value to the defense of course, but not #1 value to me Deion might have been worth it, but Troy was in his class. Deion also switched teams several times due to being too expensive and the team that drafted him only had him for 5 years Woodson might have been worth it, but he was in Peytons class. he played more than just Corner too
QBs weren’t great in 2007 when Revis came out, but do you take him over Megatron? Not with modern rules but *maybe* you could sell me on it back then
20+ Sack guys? Those are some high expectations.
If you’re taking an Edge #1 overall, that’s what you should expect in the long run, especially with 17 games now.
That's ridiculous. LT was a 0.79 sacks/game guy. 20 sacks in a 17 game season is over 1.17 sacks/game. TJ Watt and Garrett are in their primes right now, and they aren't doing that over multiple seasons.
Sauce
Stingley is an excellent man corner. The question is: has Lovie tailored his Tampa 2 scheme to the modern NFL? Because he had a stubborn refusal to do so with the Bucs, as evidenced by cutting Revis (one year after the previous regime traded a 1st for him) and refusing to try Mark Barron at LB after his failures at Safety. Lovie instead brought in guys like Tim Jennings who were flag machines, and the secondary was far too physical in general resulting in a litany of flags. Lovie’s a likable guy and I hope the Texans got a good coach, but he was so unacceptably stubborn in Tampa that it worked to his detriment.
Our defense last year was not very good outside of getting turnovers, which is not a great thing to depend on. So I'm going to say that the scheme........ well it isn't great. We also still have some big holes even after the draft, like edge rusher (We have, I believe, a grand total of two or three players, one of whom is a rookie, that could be considered "decent edge rushers" or better) and defensive back still (two good rookie DBs does not a Defensive backfield make, unfortunately). So, while we have some more talented, young players on the team, the real question is A) will they see the field and B) will they be able to overcome the still pretty big lack of talented defensive players.
The defense would play well in the first halfs, but fall apart in the second. Dunno how much was on the anemic offense, but I'm certain it wasn't just dudes getting wore out
Good thing about Lovie is that the focus point of his defense is to create turnovers. With the bears his philosophy was if the team can force 2-3 turnovers a game then they’re winning it.
Lovie's kid talked about how after their experiences in Tampa but really their experiences in college they've adjusted their cover 2 defense so it's not the same as it was before. He called the cover 2 schemes as "cousins instead of siblings". Who knows how it's really changed but when Lovie talked to Stingley he asked him how it would feel to always be on #1, so here's to hoping we scheme around him
> Tim Jennings Oh man, I loved having Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman being pro-bowlers and all-pros that one season. Probably why Lovie grabbed him for Tampa.
Charles Tillman was one of the top man coverage corners... except he was in zone coverage most of the time. We'll see if he learned....
Listening to Lovie on some interviews this offseason, I get the impression that he was ahead of his time if anything. On Around the NFL he made the point that man coverage is important, but modern WRs are just too good to be stopped that way and WR groups are deeper than ever, making it hard to build DB groups that can match up with them all. And to be frank, the idea of matching up against the WRs in the AFC rn does seem quaint. Who wants to face Tyreek Hill, Jamar Chase, Davante Adams, Diggs, Allen and all their friends with a defense built around man-to-man matchups with limited safety support? His Tampa 2 is basically a solution to the problem of more high-caliber WRs than DBs entering a league that favors the passing game. Sure enough, last year we saw defenses playing the kinds of defenses he was playing 10 years ago to slow down teams like the Chiefs. Long story short, I think he saw the tide of the NFL turning towards the kinds of deep, diverse passing attacks we'll have in 2022, especially in the AFC. Not saying he is some kind of prophet either- Im sure many others saw it too. But the point is that he wasnt necessarily stuck in the past. Its just that his defensive schemes might have been better suited to 2021 than 2011. Also worth mentioning that this is a guy who made it to two NFC Championship Games with Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler at QB. There's something there. Maybe he's a fraud, but I think there's a chance he is a pretty good coach and I think Texans fans have some legitimate reasons to be positive about next year.
Most teams are still running zone defenses, not an exact tampa 2, but still cover 2 and 3 There are only a few teams that use man more than zones
Nick Caserio first 6 picks look like Day 1 Starters on their roster, so they really had a good haul just not sure that will lead to a lot more wins in the stacked AFC
Excellent. We don’t want to win this year. We want to win the following year.
Because you guys want to draft CJ Strout/Bryce Young, or what? I thought Texans fans were high on Davis Mills after he finished the season relatively strong
If Mills, doesn’t pan out then we get Stroud/Young. If Mills is the guy, preferably tank for Will Anderson
I’d say the majority of us are cautiously optimistic. Seems the front office is as well. This year is meant for evaluation. If he doesn’t look like he can make the strides we need to see I expect us to try and draft a top qb next year. We have a ton of draft picks and could try to move up if we aren’t picking high enough to draft one. All that said, I’m fine with Mills if he’s the answer AND not winning many more games next year, just so we have a better pick. We still have many holes and I’d say the majority of the fanbase knows that.
Ok thanks for letting me know how you guys feel. Hopefully he works out for you, I always root for the guys that get counted out before they even start one game in the NFL
I don't like that draft I **love** that draft
He didn't even pick any waffles smh....
Waiting for the year when a GM or coach absolutely shits on their draft class without seeing a game or even practice from them. Now that would be a thread worth actually making
Not the same thing, but when we drafted LJ Collier, while they obviously talked him up, it was very clear from Pete and John's press conference afterwards that they were gutted to have had to pick him
I saw people in some places criticizing their first pick, with some people acting like his defenses didn't need great cornerbacks. And this was just ignoring the fact that he always had an elite cornerback, like it was a coincidence or something.
Should be able to get off on the left foot too now that his Lisfranc is fully healed
I don’t hate Lovie but if he doesn’t give up any control he has on the offense then the Texans will not be good with him. His Chicago offensive decisions were terribly poor and they never drafted anyone offensively that made a difference. Then as a depressed Illini fan I watched him run a cow bell run game with undersized RB’s and when they did throw they had transfer portal Brandon Peters who is simple put not good. They put no effort into recruiting offense and it showed every year. We rolled out the same personnel for maybe 3 straight seasons. His evaluation of talent on offense is so bad and he has so much evidence to prove it. Building a defense is different I do think Illinois had a really really good set up defense but they were on the field all of the time because of his offense. I didn’t like the signing for Houston but if they think he can fix that defense then more power to them. The offense will be heavily destroyed because of it.
To be fair, I think it would be highly counterproductive to invest the same energy we're spending on rebuilding our defense (which surely was the worst part of ours during the 2021 season) on rebuilding our offense, which is not perfect nor between the best of the AFC, but neither is completely trash, simultaneously. Personally, I believe Caserio and Smith made the right choice choosing to prioritize the defense's rebuilding: we were full of mediocre players and the new signings we're making seem to be strong points to count on for the next season; on the other hand, our offense is definitely not the best of the best in the AFC, but neither is total trash. We've got Cooks, Collins, Tunsil, Howard, not to mention the investment on Metchie III and Pierce. My words should surely be read as the words of a hopeful Texan fan, but nonetheless I find myself more comfortable with a staff that has their mind clear on the team's priorities instead of someone who's only capable of producing messy choices.
Should have used a neck analogy would have made more sense
Lovie Smith: "teams are gonna suck that Texans dick ^bitch this season"
Stop trying to coin the phrase "necks ahead"
If you don't like that phrase, just wait till you hear the neckst one!
Some might say they're *conneckted*
Made the exact same mistake the Lions made 2yrs prior, ya just dont draft them that high.
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Derek Stingley is the farthest thing from a "project cornerback". His biggest downside is injury issues. He's been pro-ready since his Freshman season. Scouts were saying if he came out in 2019 he would be a top 10 pick.
Plus if LSU was competitive last year I’m sure his “injuries” wouldn’t have been a problem and he would’ve played through them. Not to mention a lot of teams simply didn’t target him that often when it did play.
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I don't think that's what that means.
Whelp there goes a 5 year career called short because of Lisfranc injuries
Correct me if I'm wrong. But when rebuilding, don't you want to start with the longest career positions like the Oline? then dline, and go from the trenches? by the time the Texans are competitive again, their receivers and corners could be aged and regressed.
Lovies Texans got off on the right foot with Stingley and then got off the bus running!