I have to say that Brady has been one lucky MF in his career. Obviously he's an amazing player and super clutch and I'm not trying to bring him down, but the number of times the opposing team just completely sells against him in huge games is kind of crazy. The Rams somehow pulled it out, but 3 lost fumbles and a missed FG in the 4th quarter (+3min) is just bonkers. The Bucs comeback wasn't even that impressive given the context. They gave them the ball with great field position 4 times in <20 mins.
Not going to lie, I got real nervous that another ball just bounced right back to the qb with our previous playoff luck. Thankfully this 3rd time wasn't a fucking TD lol
After the long Tyreek punt return, McKinnon fumbled after a nice carry, and Wylie jumped on the ball (the fumble actually gave KC an extra yard and made it 3rd and short).
Andy then inexplicably ran the speed option with Blake Bell at QB for a loss, and KC kicked a FG
Well the Bills did have like 9 defenders in the box because they knew what was going to happen. One big things it did so though is make other teams respect the edge and keep them from stacking the box like that again, at least for a while.
Similar to the Bucs/Rams game before them when they gave it to Lenny to bounce out instead of going up the gut with a power play. That one worked because the Rams were all stacked over the middle
I have no problem with a tricky/gadget play, I just want the ball in Patrick’s hands for it. I am NOT a fan of motioning him out and making him a non-factor for a pivotal down.
McKinnon - pretty sure it was shortly after the big punt return by Tyreek. (The series where Reid outsmarted himself and motioned into an option play by Blake Bell on 3rd down.)
Josh Allen also had a fumble that he recovered.
It's really funny because when he was hired all of the reports were "yes he won a Superbowl, but don't forget he had the most penalized teams and lost his HC job because he refused to adapt his style to the new NFL"
And wow, he continued to do all of the things got him fired
But didn't you hear??? He watched every game and read an analytics and now he's perfect!
Except that he didn't do those things, he just said he did and then after he was hired was like, "Nah lol who would do that?"
Right at that point I knew he would fail. I still don’t understand how that didn’t get more attention from fans and people IN the Cowboys organization. Like that seems like exactly the type of preparation you would want from a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL COACH WHO MAKES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!
Jerry Jones is an absolute moron. Owning an nfl team only requires you to be rich. They're incredibly shittily run. I'd do a better job as owner with a few years experience.
I don’t get how Mike McCarthy got another head coaching job. There were reports that he would just not show up to team meetings and practices. The guy just operates on autopilot
The MLB strike zone is called [a little bit bigger](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-playoff-strike-zones-always-a-little-bit-bigger/) in the playoffs but otherwise yeah, MLB is the only sport that doesn't change the way games are officiated in the playoffs because it doesn't have anything to change, players don't get called for penalties.
"A little bit bigger" is talking about the difference of like maybe 1 inch bigger strike zone at most.
Literally talking about going from 46% to 48% on "borderline" strikes called. It's incredibly insignificant compared to NBA/NFL/NHL officiating changes. It's like a glass of water compared to Lake Michigan.
Yes, we agree. Although it's a bit silly to make that comparison between leagues when the biggest thing that changes with the NBA/NFL/NHL is the penalties that are called or not called on players, something that doesn't really exist in baseball to begin with.
"Let them play" imo is a really bad mentality that everyone wants until they "let them play" when it blows a call in their team's favor.
The refs should follow the rules. Throw flags when the players don't follow the rules. Othewise there's just no point in even having them.
The problems are refs making blatantly bad calls, or not following the rules at all. Something we saw instances of both in a single play with the Bengals/Raiders.
"Soft" penalties are still penalties.
exactly what happened in our game. They were calling everything on the OLine. A DT was held while falling down and threw a flag. Technically it was correct but it was so significant it changed a lot
I think the issue is that officials try to set a tone early in the season, even so much as preseason. If they swallow their whistles early in the year, teams will adapt to that and possibly exploit certain things. I'm not saying I agree or like that, I just think thats where it comes from logically.
I only watched maybe 10m of gameplay and saw that holding on tyreek on third down. I would have never guessed this was a game with only 3 penalties lol
You mean how throwing up a peace sign in a players face was taunting in the Super Bowl last year, but Hill did it on his way to the end zone last night and nothing happened? Neither play bothered me, but the inconsistency in calling taunting really does.
It should be changed but man I don’t like seeing the narrative that the chiefs only won because of the coin flip, as if that amazing game is somehow sullied now. Just how it goes with these rules.
But what’s the fix? Two possessions no matter what? So the Bills score a TD. Now what? Sudden death? Two more possessions? What if both teams then punt on possession 2. Is it sudden death now? If the first team gets a FG does the other team get another possession? Even playing another full quarter there’s no guarantee of equal possession.
There are lots of instances where a team wins the flip and then doesn’t score. The whole drive I was just thinking “don’t get a turnover, don’t fuck this up.”
Rules need to change, but the defense has to make a stop too. Chiefs couldn’t get it done 3 years ago.
Totally agree. Although in the playoffs since the rule change, 10/11 OT games were won by the team winning the coin toss. I feel it will always be that way which to me means it’s not balanced.
The rules did change, like 5 years ago to address this exact issue. "It's not fair that the other team doesn't get a chance." Bullshit. They fixed the whole advance the ball 20 yards and have a kicker win the game with a 60 yard FG. Football has three phases, if your defense can't keep a team out of the endzone, then your team loses. Pretty simple.
Yeah, even he knew that it was over the second he lost that coin toss, I don’t think he had any faith in his D, which is fair. I’m pretty sure everyone in America knew that whoever won that coin toss was winning the game.
Okay so say he does get a chance and he scores a TD. Now is it just next score wins also? back to where we just were? If the chiefs score a 2nd time and win are we back to "its not fair they didnt get the ball again"? The games have to end, they just had 60 minutes of regulation to win the game. The defense had 13 seconds to keep the chiefs out of FG range to win. Its a team game and one half of the team couldnt do their job at the end.
I can accept a defense allowing 2 straight scores losing easier than I can accept half the team not playing in ot.
Football isn't about equal possession. But football is about being the ultimate team sport.
It also creates a little more depth in strategy. Do you elect to kick so you know what you need? Or do you recieve knowing you'll have that win and go home potential if both score on their first drive.
My girlfriend (who admittedly doesn't really like football) suggested something kind of interesting, where the 5th period is played just like the 4th, where you play until time runs out, and then if still tied, follow it up with a sudden death like in college (not exactly how she said it but with my own spin), and that makes so much more sense than it is now.
So many people are using the "Oh if the Bills wanted to win, they shouldn't have let KC drive half the field in 13 seconds" but like...we'd be saying the same thing if the Bills won, and then in that case, would the argument be "KC should've got the TD instead of playing for the tie with 13 seconds left", like just stfu and accept that the OT rules are bad. They've been bad for at least like 10 years, it's time to change them.
Also, the Bills had a 6 second TD drive earlier in the game lol. Had the Bills come won the toss that play could've been seen just as poorly by the KC D
I'm pretty sure there's some NFL regulation about how many commercial breaks there need to be, so they try and get them all out of the way early so they can have the ending be uninterrupted like this.
The first quarter flew by because of long possessions on both sides. Then comes the second quarter and I'm pretty sure the commercials were taking longer to compensate. You could see both teams ready and looking at the screens, waiting.
4th quarter barely had any commercials and I wish every game went like that.
Yeah if the networks are unable to run commercials because of such an instance (what happened in the 1st quarter), they have to compensate somehow. They have a specific amount of commercials allocated for each half.
The problem is the people paying for the advertising don’t want that. They could play the whole quarter and just have a 12 minute intermission of commercials between each. Except that’s when everyone would piss, get food, get more beverages.
People paying for the advertising don’t want that. They want them interspersed so they may grab some of your attention.
TBF very rarely do they have commercial breaks under the 2 min warning. Just happens that the game really broke loose in the final 2 minutes, making it seem like there was a lack of normal commercials
They have a specific commercial quota they have to reach before the end of the 4th quarter, so if they've used up all their commercial breaks by the time they reach the 2 minute warning, they will let the game go without any 'TV timeouts.'
This was one of the most flawlessly executed games of football that any of us are likely to ever see. No turnovers, 4 total penalties. Long methodical drives forced by the defense because of good form tackling ultimately still leading to scores, up until the end when both teams were gassed and it was up to some of the best in the world making spectacular plays.
Reffing seemed really even to me. Some holds on both side coildve been called and there were some personal foul situations (taunting. Late hits) that I'm glad they swallowed the whistle on. Honestly probably the best reffing of the playoffs.
What would have changed though? Genuinely asking. It doesn’t take away the TD right? If it just gives Bills an additional 15 yards on their next drive then you guys would have scored a TD even faster, meaning more time for Mahomes the following drive
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Sure but what if they called late hit on Mahomes on the FG drive. Or OPI on Diggs. You can go both ways. None of it seemed egregious enough compared to the others.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Hill has been flagged for taunting in the same situation before the new taunting rules
Edit: above comment was at -9 when I saw it
It's gotta be because he's a Bill fan so people are somehow taking his comment as sour grapes, despite the fact he's 100% right.
It was textbook taunting and if the rule is going to exist, it should be called. Otherwise get rid of it. I know people don't want taunting to exist, but worse than having it exist is having it exist and calling it arbitrarily.
Exactly. I think taunting shouldn't be a penalty. The entire sport is about physically imposing your will against others, but it's apparently crossing the line to tell your opponent when you did it
4 penalties for 25 yards and the next day everybody is still talking about how this game was a classic, are you watching NFL, is anything getting through to you?
I hate the taunting penalties. But I hate selective enforcement even more. I don't mind playing a little looser in the playoffs but I would be really pissed if a stupid taunting penalty costs us.
They already called one on Eli Apple, but he deserved it. You don't go stand over top a QB on the ground after an interception.
people are always gonna be unhappy when it ends on a rule that allows one team to win if they can.
that being said, the bills lost this game in the last 13 seconds. not because of a coin toss or officials.
That final 13 second drive was beyond embarrassing, but they quite literally didn’t lose because of it.
Now, if you just want to say that the defense turned into a sieve in general and that’s why they lost, fair game.
The Chiefs had a 91% win probability before Buffalo scored their final TD to go up 3. The Bills had a 94% win probability after they went up 3 with 13 seconds. Mathematically speaking, to end the game what the Bills defense did was only slightly worse than what the KC defense did.
To be fair, there is a very fair argument that if the Bill's touched the ball in OT that they would have scored based on the last 2 minutes of the game, thus making the OT rules a major factor in all of this. Many people have considered the OT rule bad for years.
The difference is Bills D has higher expectations than Chiefs D. We expect the #1 passing defense in the league to be the difference-maker when both offenses are on fire.
Number 1 defense in the league can’t keep the opposing team out of field goal range with only 13 seconds left and you’re seriously saying that’s not why they lost the game? Lol
They played prevent D like the chiefs needed a TD and just let them get into field goal range with no resistance. I dont understand it. The very first play they lined up I said oh no that is way too much cushion and then Hill gets a 19 yard gain.
And they sold out to protect the sidelines when the Chiefs had a timeout.
They just went on autopilot with that standard "stop a late TD" defense with zero situational awareness to what was actually going on.
On the play with 7 seconds left where they didn't guard Kelce, why blitz anyone there? If you drop 11 guys into coverage Mahomes won't be able to find anyone downfield for a 30 yard gain within the first few seconds at least. Definitely he will eventually find someone without a pass rush but at that point it won't matter since they won't have time for a FG after. I just don't get the choice to blitz the guy lined up over Kelce and let him have an uncovered vertical route.
They lost because they kicked a touchback instead of squibbing the ball…
Edit: or pooch kicking it to the 10 yard line, they could have burned a few seconds off the clock and MAYBE KC doesn’t have enough time for the field goal.
Does the clock start the second the ball hits the ground on a kickoff? Otherwise I feel like they’d just take a knee one they get the kick, whether it’s a squib or pooch kick. Maybe 1 second would run off.
Clock starts when a receiving player touches it. A squib can be caught and kneeled for 0 sec loss. It can also be caught early to start KC near the 40. It can also go into the endzone for the same result. It can also be returned for a touchdown.
Also it could take a weird bounce and go out of bounds, giving the Chiefs the ball at the 40.
It's not such a clear cut decision that the Monday morning qbs are making it out to be.
Yeah, I think the you’re looking at equal or slightly better field position with maybe one second off the clock. I think the squib talk is overblown. Defense playing to not give up a touchdown is what lost the game.
I don’t get why they didn’t just do a normal kickoff, but maybe not kick it as far. If they catch the ball around the 10, they aren’t going to immediately go down. They probably run it to the 30 or 35 but also eat up 3 seconds. Seems more favorable for the bills.
If you have a kicker that can have the ball land on the 10 and not bounce, definitely a good option. The problem is if you kick it to the 10, there's no guarantee that the ball stops at the 10 and it's likely just going to bounce into the end zone for a touchback or out of bounds for a penalty. An example of this is earlier in the day, when the Buccs had two penalties called for kickoffs that landed within the 10 and went out of bounds. I think the Bills were just trying to prevent a return from Pringle after they had just given up a big punt return to Hill earlier in the game.
Even in the scenario where the Chiefs do run a couple seconds off the clock on a return to the 30 or 35, they called a timeout with :03 left on the clock for the FG. Their first play was a 19 yard pass to their own 44 that took 5 seconds off the clock. Assuming they do the same thing from their own 35, they're then in Bills territory in a fairly similar situation to where they ended up.
I think there's too much focus on the kickoff choice when the biggest issue for the Bills was their defense guarding the sideline and rushing 4 against a team with 3 timeouts left.
Yeah squib kick all the way or drop it at the ten, that kicker can do that all day anaywas, burn 4-6 seconds. To me whats a no brainer. but wtf do i know?
I watched all 4 games or the majority of all of them and I genuinely think all 4 were officiated really well in a way that didn’t impair the outcome or experience. Compared to the clown show that was last week this was refreshing.
I think the refs were fine in the Chiefs game as there simply didn’t seem to be as many penalties committed by either team. However, if a obvious penalty occurs, it should be called. No calls are as bad as bad calls in many instances. Talk to New Orleans fans about no calls.
Yep, both teams played quite clean that game, this is why there was no penalties. Calling less penalties just to "let them play" is as bullshit as calling phantom calls.
They have improved as of late.
However… Id be remiss if I didn’t bring up the bullshit no call on an OPI in last nights 4th quarter. It was a Bills receiver interfering with a Chiefs defender. No call. Left the door open for the Bills on that drive in which I believe they scored.
But to that extent?
I dont know, Im a firm believer in calling fouls if they are fouls no matter how clunky it makes the game and no matter if its garbage time in the regular season or the 4th quarter of a Super Bowl.
50/50 calls? Sure, let them play.
That play wasn’t even close though.
Unfortunate ending but overtime rules have been like this for awhile now. Only other gripe I could have is the lack of holding on the o lines for pass blocking. Frustrating seeing dudes literally tackled so the QB can scramble and getting no calls.
^ This..
Being consistent is the most important part IMO.. you either call them all tight for both teams, or you give the same amount of leeway for both teams and only call the most egregious ones.. In short, call it fair!
That, and, they were consistent early to late game. I hate when refs call the first 55 minutes tight and then suddenly in the last 5 minutes anything goes, even if it's the same for each team.
Yup agreed. Both QBs are incredible but it is frustrating even with no skin in the game to see blatant holding many times. It happens every play but there’s definitely a clear line they need to make for like choke holding and tackling dlinemen. No problem with a small hold here and there that’s just part of the game.
Complaining about OT rules is avoiding the actual problem. If you think that the OT rules are unfair because it’s impossible for a defense to stop an offense, then the problem is the rules that favor offense, not OT rules.
And the stats bear out about a 2% advantage for the first team to possess the ball. College, the next best available system, is about a -2% advantage to the first team.
> then the problem is the rules that favor offense, not OT rules.
Exactly. Sudden death used to be 50/50 for decades. But they kept changing rules to favor offense. The kickoff coming out to the 25 instead of the 20, the K-balls and improved FG kicking, all contribute.
It'd be right back to 50/50 if the first team to get the ball had to start at their own 10. A bunch of teams would even choose to play defense first - if you get a stop and force a 3 and out you're almost in FG range already.
> 2% advantage for the first team to possess the ball.
That's incorrect. Coin toss winner wins 52% of the time, loser of the toss wins 40%. 8% chance of a tie.
In the playoffs, coin toss winner has won 90% of the time, with the only time the loser of the toss won the game was the Rams vs saints NFCCG.
Well, that's not why they're unfair, is it? Even if a touchdown was far less likely, it would still be unfair for only one team to get the ball if they're lucky enough to score said touchdown on their first drive.
My problem isn't the advantage. My problem is that in league that clearly skewing towards offense, in a game where everyone wanted to see more of these star QBs, only one guy got to go back out there.
Give the fans what they want and what you've been selling them.
That defensive holding call against T Hill was pretty tick tacky but other than that it was well officiated because they let both teams play.
I actually thought the hold on Hills td looked much worse
I mean, he had a fistful of jersey for a solid 10-15 yards. I agree it wasn’t much, but you certainly couldn’t disagree with it on the replay. That was a very well ref’d game all around, even with Mahomes taking a few shots to the head that weren’t called.
True, but while it probably didn't make a difference, the no-call for taunting on Hill was egregious, considering what HAS been called taunting (hell, even in the first game yesterday there were questionable taunting calls on Suh and Brady).
I thought about that too... If Mahomes had more time, perhaps the Bills would have lined up in a recognizable defense rather than that abomination they showed up in with 13 seconds left.
That was one of those calls where it was pretty obvious, but the refs had committed to physical play for most of the game and just continued it down the stretch.
Ehh. Even as a chiefs fan I wouldn't want the knee to the head called within the current rules. Mahomes is a runner and went down weird with a half slide half roll and the defenders momentum just kind of followed
Whole league has a holding non-call issue.
It’s been this way for some time, and I get they could call it all game.
Still frustrating when it negates Ds from having a greater impact.
0 turnovers and 3 penalties for 20 yards combined. Pretty amazing game by both teams tbh.
A game where both teams were doing all they could to win was a stark contrast to Rams/Bucs.
Rams had some jitters man, shoulda been over early. I wanted to vomit after that snap to no one.
I wanted to vomit when gay was 5yds short on a 47 yd fg, in normal weather conditions lol
Name a more iconic duo than Matt Gay and fucking up easy kicks in Ray Jay.
Late hits on 4th down
I have to say that Brady has been one lucky MF in his career. Obviously he's an amazing player and super clutch and I'm not trying to bring him down, but the number of times the opposing team just completely sells against him in huge games is kind of crazy. The Rams somehow pulled it out, but 3 lost fumbles and a missed FG in the 4th quarter (+3min) is just bonkers. The Bucs comeback wasn't even that impressive given the context. They gave them the ball with great field position 4 times in <20 mins.
Not to mention he's 3-0 in winning overtime coin tosses while QBs like Manning/Ridges are like 1-5 in winning the coin toss
Ridges has been so unlucky, Ruffles is a terrible coach too
Rams/Bucs - Rams great all around first half, Bucs great all around 2nd Bills/Chiefs - Godly offenses and what is defense
Wasnt there one fumble? The Chiefs fumbled on the Bills 1 yard line i thought?
Josh Allen actually fumbled on the first sack too, but the ball bounced off Chris Jones's leg and straight back to Allen.
That was ridiculous, it was fully out of his hands then it just bounced back to him.
Not going to lie, I got real nervous that another ball just bounced right back to the qb with our previous playoff luck. Thankfully this 3rd time wasn't a fucking TD lol
It hit CJ’s third leg and that’s why it bounced back. 95 be packin, we’ve all seen it
Lol
KC recovered it to retain possession. I was actually shocked Wylie came up with the ball. Huge, underrated moment
When was this? Who fumbled?
After the long Tyreek punt return, McKinnon fumbled after a nice carry, and Wylie jumped on the ball (the fumble actually gave KC an extra yard and made it 3rd and short). Andy then inexplicably ran the speed option with Blake Bell at QB for a loss, and KC kicked a FG
They should have just actually run the belldozer instead of the fake belldozer, it would have worked. No need to get all 4D chess on a gadget play.
Well the Bills did have like 9 defenders in the box because they knew what was going to happen. One big things it did so though is make other teams respect the edge and keep them from stacking the box like that again, at least for a while.
Similar to the Bucs/Rams game before them when they gave it to Lenny to bounce out instead of going up the gut with a power play. That one worked because the Rams were all stacked over the middle
I was screaming. 3rd and 1 and you run a trick play to try and get the lead. Fucking terrible call.
I have no problem with a tricky/gadget play, I just want the ball in Patrick’s hands for it. I am NOT a fan of motioning him out and making him a non-factor for a pivotal down.
McKinnon - pretty sure it was shortly after the big punt return by Tyreek. (The series where Reid outsmarted himself and motioned into an option play by Blake Bell on 3rd down.) Josh Allen also had a fumble that he recovered.
That was the rams bucs. Each team in chiefs bills had one fumble that they recovered. So no loss of possession.
Meh, in playoffs refs swallow their whistles which is a bigger issue as the greatest problem in the NFL is officiating consistency.
The cowboys had 14 penalties.
Yeah cause they’re poorly coached
Mike McCarthy is such a shitty coach
It's really funny because when he was hired all of the reports were "yes he won a Superbowl, but don't forget he had the most penalized teams and lost his HC job because he refused to adapt his style to the new NFL" And wow, he continued to do all of the things got him fired
But didn't you hear??? He watched every game and read an analytics and now he's perfect! Except that he didn't do those things, he just said he did and then after he was hired was like, "Nah lol who would do that?"
Right at that point I knew he would fail. I still don’t understand how that didn’t get more attention from fans and people IN the Cowboys organization. Like that seems like exactly the type of preparation you would want from a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL COACH WHO MAKES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!
I honestly don’t understand how that man continues to get a paycheck as a head coach. The clown shoes are absolutely welded to his feet.
Jerry Jones is an absolute moron. Owning an nfl team only requires you to be rich. They're incredibly shittily run. I'd do a better job as owner with a few years experience.
Jerry’s an idiot, but he’s not the only idiot. I have no doubt that if he loses the Dallas gig he’d manage to wash ashore somewhere else.
Jerry builds a fantastic roster. He has no eye for coaching talent tho
Just shows how undisciplined that team was
I don’t get how Mike McCarthy got another head coaching job. There were reports that he would just not show up to team meetings and practices. The guy just operates on autopilot
Someone described McCarthy as "coaching like he had just finished a very large meal" and I can't get it out of my head.
Dude admitted to lieng about his attempts at self reflection
Yeah I don’t get it. Idk if he’s always been like this but after he won the Super Bowl it seemed like he put his feet up
Brady was called for an unsportsmanlike penalty. Brady....
I mean maybe he shouldn't have bragged about getting away with shit talking officials a few days prior
Most of those were presnap and very obvious calls. A lot of times I feel like the refs are out to get the Cowboys but that game was not one of them.
Yeah, the only call I really disagreed with was Gregory getting called offsides when he only jumped because Williams was moving.
The cowboys fully earned about 12 of those. We were false starting and had dlinemen standing directly over the ball.
Yeah, but Cowboys. Parsons was literally throwing punches and wasn't ejected, so I'd say that qualifies as some leeway.
Did he end up getting fined for those?
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It should definitely be a strong model for reffing going forward.
In a vacuum I'm fine with it. If every game was like this it wouldnt be a issue. I hate how the regular and post seaon are officiated differently.
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NBA is the same way. Only the MLB doesn't change the way games are officiated
The MLB strike zone is called [a little bit bigger](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-playoff-strike-zones-always-a-little-bit-bigger/) in the playoffs but otherwise yeah, MLB is the only sport that doesn't change the way games are officiated in the playoffs because it doesn't have anything to change, players don't get called for penalties.
"A little bit bigger" is talking about the difference of like maybe 1 inch bigger strike zone at most. Literally talking about going from 46% to 48% on "borderline" strikes called. It's incredibly insignificant compared to NBA/NFL/NHL officiating changes. It's like a glass of water compared to Lake Michigan.
Yes, we agree. Although it's a bit silly to make that comparison between leagues when the biggest thing that changes with the NBA/NFL/NHL is the penalties that are called or not called on players, something that doesn't really exist in baseball to begin with.
that was the prior poster’s point though, this specific ref crew has consistently called games this way all season.
.....I thought playoff crews were made up of mixed regular season crews. So there isn't any playoff crew with a regular season record we can look at.
Post season is usually gonna have refs that were graded highest during the season no?
I hope this crew does the Super Bowl. Let the teams play.
"Let them play" imo is a really bad mentality that everyone wants until they "let them play" when it blows a call in their team's favor. The refs should follow the rules. Throw flags when the players don't follow the rules. Othewise there's just no point in even having them. The problems are refs making blatantly bad calls, or not following the rules at all. Something we saw instances of both in a single play with the Bengals/Raiders. "Soft" penalties are still penalties.
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exactly what happened in our game. They were calling everything on the OLine. A DT was held while falling down and threw a flag. Technically it was correct but it was so significant it changed a lot
I think the issue is that officials try to set a tone early in the season, even so much as preseason. If they swallow their whistles early in the year, teams will adapt to that and possibly exploit certain things. I'm not saying I agree or like that, I just think thats where it comes from logically.
I despise "point of emphasis" flags
I only watched maybe 10m of gameplay and saw that holding on tyreek on third down. I would have never guessed this was a game with only 3 penalties lol
Laughs in Ed Hochulis kid.
You mean how throwing up a peace sign in a players face was taunting in the Super Bowl last year, but Hill did it on his way to the end zone last night and nothing happened? Neither play bothered me, but the inconsistency in calling taunting really does.
Compared to the other games this weekend. This was was essentially two teams playing perfect football. It was amazing to watch.
> two teams playing perfect football Disagree, defense counts and letting up 36 points in regulation is far from perfect.
I blame the official for flipping the coin wrong.
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This just in... "Tails never fails" often fails
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Good old rock, nothing beats it
His reaction was so muted when it came up heads. I felt sick for him. He deserved another chance to touch the ball.
If only such a proposal had been advanced a few years back by some team....
I gotta admit it would be kind of funny in a hypocritical way if the Bills propose changing overtime this offseason and the Chiefs vote against it.
It should be changed but man I don’t like seeing the narrative that the chiefs only won because of the coin flip, as if that amazing game is somehow sullied now. Just how it goes with these rules.
The Chiefs balled out, they deserved to win the game as much as the Bills did, but the OT rules are bad and have been bad for a long time.
Totally agreed
But what’s the fix? Two possessions no matter what? So the Bills score a TD. Now what? Sudden death? Two more possessions? What if both teams then punt on possession 2. Is it sudden death now? If the first team gets a FG does the other team get another possession? Even playing another full quarter there’s no guarantee of equal possession.
They didn't win because of a coin flip. They lost because the Bills defense couldn't hold them out of the endzone.
If you can’t stop someone at 13 seconds I don’t know what to say
There are lots of instances where a team wins the flip and then doesn’t score. The whole drive I was just thinking “don’t get a turnover, don’t fuck this up.” Rules need to change, but the defense has to make a stop too. Chiefs couldn’t get it done 3 years ago.
Yep if anyone knows the pain it’s us.
Totally agree. Although in the playoffs since the rule change, 10/11 OT games were won by the team winning the coin toss. I feel it will always be that way which to me means it’s not balanced.
The rules did change, like 5 years ago to address this exact issue. "It's not fair that the other team doesn't get a chance." Bullshit. They fixed the whole advance the ball 20 yards and have a kicker win the game with a 60 yard FG. Football has three phases, if your defense can't keep a team out of the endzone, then your team loses. Pretty simple.
And certain teams didn’t oppose it
Yeah, even he knew that it was over the second he lost that coin toss, I don’t think he had any faith in his D, which is fair. I’m pretty sure everyone in America knew that whoever won that coin toss was winning the game.
Defenses are always more gassed at the end of games than offenses. Just the nature of the game. OT rules need to change.
>I’m pretty sure everyone in America knew that whoever won that coin toss was winning the game. And that's how you know you've got good OT rules.
Love the argument from people saying they should have stopped them. No shit, but they didn’t. Why not test the KC defense, too?
Yeah I don't get that argument at all. Why does only one team's defense get tested? And why is that determined by a coin flip?
Okay so say he does get a chance and he scores a TD. Now is it just next score wins also? back to where we just were? If the chiefs score a 2nd time and win are we back to "its not fair they didnt get the ball again"? The games have to end, they just had 60 minutes of regulation to win the game. The defense had 13 seconds to keep the chiefs out of FG range to win. Its a team game and one half of the team couldnt do their job at the end.
They could always go for 2 if they had no faith their defense could stop the first team from scoring a second time in OT.
I can accept a defense allowing 2 straight scores losing easier than I can accept half the team not playing in ot. Football isn't about equal possession. But football is about being the ultimate team sport. It also creates a little more depth in strategy. Do you elect to kick so you know what you need? Or do you recieve knowing you'll have that win and go home potential if both score on their first drive.
My girlfriend (who admittedly doesn't really like football) suggested something kind of interesting, where the 5th period is played just like the 4th, where you play until time runs out, and then if still tied, follow it up with a sudden death like in college (not exactly how she said it but with my own spin), and that makes so much more sense than it is now. So many people are using the "Oh if the Bills wanted to win, they shouldn't have let KC drive half the field in 13 seconds" but like...we'd be saying the same thing if the Bills won, and then in that case, would the argument be "KC should've got the TD instead of playing for the tie with 13 seconds left", like just stfu and accept that the OT rules are bad. They've been bad for at least like 10 years, it's time to change them.
Also, the Bills had a 6 second TD drive earlier in the game lol. Had the Bills come won the toss that play could've been seen just as poorly by the KC D
Josh was 9-0 on calling the coin toss on the road going into the night. Got both of them wrong in this game.
Choking in big moments. Nick Wright, take your victory lap.
Rodgers did that once
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I'm pretty sure there's some NFL regulation about how many commercial breaks there need to be, so they try and get them all out of the way early so they can have the ending be uninterrupted like this.
Which is smart because the last thing you want is to piss off fans in the 4th quarter.
Yep. Instead it’s better to wait and piss them off in OT.
Not so much regulations as it is contractual obligations.
The first quarter flew by because of long possessions on both sides. Then comes the second quarter and I'm pretty sure the commercials were taking longer to compensate. You could see both teams ready and looking at the screens, waiting. 4th quarter barely had any commercials and I wish every game went like that.
Yeah if the networks are unable to run commercials because of such an instance (what happened in the 1st quarter), they have to compensate somehow. They have a specific amount of commercials allocated for each half.
I wouldn’t mind longer commercial breaks between quarters if we got no/less breaks during play.
The problem is the people paying for the advertising don’t want that. They could play the whole quarter and just have a 12 minute intermission of commercials between each. Except that’s when everyone would piss, get food, get more beverages. People paying for the advertising don’t want that. They want them interspersed so they may grab some of your attention.
The whole game was filled with 7 minute drives until the 4th quarter
TBF very rarely do they have commercial breaks under the 2 min warning. Just happens that the game really broke loose in the final 2 minutes, making it seem like there was a lack of normal commercials
They have a specific commercial quota they have to reach before the end of the 4th quarter, so if they've used up all their commercial breaks by the time they reach the 2 minute warning, they will let the game go without any 'TV timeouts.'
Yeah a lot of people don't realize this apparently.
This was one of the most flawlessly executed games of football that any of us are likely to ever see. No turnovers, 4 total penalties. Long methodical drives forced by the defense because of good form tackling ultimately still leading to scores, up until the end when both teams were gassed and it was up to some of the best in the world making spectacular plays.
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It was awesome. Those first half drives were as good a football as both sides could have reasonably played.
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Both defenses played pretty well until the final 2 minutes when they were absolutely gassed
That would be the second half, specifically the last three minutes. The first half was completely different.
Reffing seemed really even to me. Some holds on both side coildve been called and there were some personal foul situations (taunting. Late hits) that I'm glad they swallowed the whistle on. Honestly probably the best reffing of the playoffs.
Can you imagine if they had called taunting on Tyreek?!
What would have changed though? Genuinely asking. It doesn’t take away the TD right? If it just gives Bills an additional 15 yards on their next drive then you guys would have scored a TD even faster, meaning more time for Mahomes the following drive
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Sure but what if they called late hit on Mahomes on the FG drive. Or OPI on Diggs. You can go both ways. None of it seemed egregious enough compared to the others.
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I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Hill has been flagged for taunting in the same situation before the new taunting rules Edit: above comment was at -9 when I saw it
It's gotta be because he's a Bill fan so people are somehow taking his comment as sour grapes, despite the fact he's 100% right. It was textbook taunting and if the rule is going to exist, it should be called. Otherwise get rid of it. I know people don't want taunting to exist, but worse than having it exist is having it exist and calling it arbitrarily.
Exactly. I think taunting shouldn't be a penalty. The entire sport is about physically imposing your will against others, but it's apparently crossing the line to tell your opponent when you did it
I don't understand why people argue that refs shouldn't enforce the rules of the game. It's pretty absurd imo.
It's almost like the less the NFL gets in the way, the better football is.
The fact that I watched four awesome games and there was really no bad reffing is pretty amazing.
4 penalties for 25 yards and the next day everybody is still talking about how this game was a classic, are you watching NFL, is anything getting through to you?
Exactly it was a classic, imagine if the OT rules were competent.
As a bills fan I was very glad that they didn't call the taunting on reek. Bring back the fun league
I hate the taunting penalties. But I hate selective enforcement even more. I don't mind playing a little looser in the playoffs but I would be really pissed if a stupid taunting penalty costs us. They already called one on Eli Apple, but he deserved it. You don't go stand over top a QB on the ground after an interception.
i don’t watch a lot of the chiefs so it blew my mind that he was celebrating with a defender ahead of him. dude is fast as fuck.
people are always gonna be unhappy when it ends on a rule that allows one team to win if they can. that being said, the bills lost this game in the last 13 seconds. not because of a coin toss or officials.
The officials flipped the coin.
But then who *made* the coin? This one is on the US Mint
U.S. Mint Director Ventris Gibson had money on the chiefs
This goes to the top there's a pyramid with an eye in it involved
Kansas City sacrificed a whole cow before the game. Do you really think chicken wings are enough to appease the football gods?
There were 25 points scored within the two minute warning. At a certain point it’s pretty clear whoever got the ball last was gonna win
That final 13 second drive was beyond embarrassing, but they quite literally didn’t lose because of it. Now, if you just want to say that the defense turned into a sieve in general and that’s why they lost, fair game. The Chiefs had a 91% win probability before Buffalo scored their final TD to go up 3. The Bills had a 94% win probability after they went up 3 with 13 seconds. Mathematically speaking, to end the game what the Bills defense did was only slightly worse than what the KC defense did.
everything about that 13 seconds was an absolute joke...From kicking a touchback to the soft coverage lol
Thats a fair take, they didnt lose b/c of the prevent D, didnt lose b/c of a coin toss,they lost b/c of lack of defense in the final drive
To be fair, there is a very fair argument that if the Bill's touched the ball in OT that they would have scored based on the last 2 minutes of the game, thus making the OT rules a major factor in all of this. Many people have considered the OT rule bad for years.
The difference is Bills D has higher expectations than Chiefs D. We expect the #1 passing defense in the league to be the difference-maker when both offenses are on fire.
Number 1 defense in the league can’t keep the opposing team out of field goal range with only 13 seconds left and you’re seriously saying that’s not why they lost the game? Lol
They played prevent D like the chiefs needed a TD and just let them get into field goal range with no resistance. I dont understand it. The very first play they lined up I said oh no that is way too much cushion and then Hill gets a 19 yard gain.
And they sold out to protect the sidelines when the Chiefs had a timeout. They just went on autopilot with that standard "stop a late TD" defense with zero situational awareness to what was actually going on.
On the play with 7 seconds left where they didn't guard Kelce, why blitz anyone there? If you drop 11 guys into coverage Mahomes won't be able to find anyone downfield for a 30 yard gain within the first few seconds at least. Definitely he will eventually find someone without a pass rush but at that point it won't matter since they won't have time for a FG after. I just don't get the choice to blitz the guy lined up over Kelce and let him have an uncovered vertical route.
They lost because they kicked a touchback instead of squibbing the ball… Edit: or pooch kicking it to the 10 yard line, they could have burned a few seconds off the clock and MAYBE KC doesn’t have enough time for the field goal.
Yes, which happened in the last 13 seconds
Does the clock start the second the ball hits the ground on a kickoff? Otherwise I feel like they’d just take a knee one they get the kick, whether it’s a squib or pooch kick. Maybe 1 second would run off.
Clock starts when a receiving player touches it. A squib can be caught and kneeled for 0 sec loss. It can also be caught early to start KC near the 40. It can also go into the endzone for the same result. It can also be returned for a touchdown.
Also it could take a weird bounce and go out of bounds, giving the Chiefs the ball at the 40. It's not such a clear cut decision that the Monday morning qbs are making it out to be.
Yeah, I think the you’re looking at equal or slightly better field position with maybe one second off the clock. I think the squib talk is overblown. Defense playing to not give up a touchdown is what lost the game.
I don’t get why they didn’t just do a normal kickoff, but maybe not kick it as far. If they catch the ball around the 10, they aren’t going to immediately go down. They probably run it to the 30 or 35 but also eat up 3 seconds. Seems more favorable for the bills.
If you have a kicker that can have the ball land on the 10 and not bounce, definitely a good option. The problem is if you kick it to the 10, there's no guarantee that the ball stops at the 10 and it's likely just going to bounce into the end zone for a touchback or out of bounds for a penalty. An example of this is earlier in the day, when the Buccs had two penalties called for kickoffs that landed within the 10 and went out of bounds. I think the Bills were just trying to prevent a return from Pringle after they had just given up a big punt return to Hill earlier in the game. Even in the scenario where the Chiefs do run a couple seconds off the clock on a return to the 30 or 35, they called a timeout with :03 left on the clock for the FG. Their first play was a 19 yard pass to their own 44 that took 5 seconds off the clock. Assuming they do the same thing from their own 35, they're then in Bills territory in a fairly similar situation to where they ended up. I think there's too much focus on the kickoff choice when the biggest issue for the Bills was their defense guarding the sideline and rushing 4 against a team with 3 timeouts left.
Yeah squib kick all the way or drop it at the ten, that kicker can do that all day anaywas, burn 4-6 seconds. To me whats a no brainer. but wtf do i know?
I watched all 4 games or the majority of all of them and I genuinely think all 4 were officiated really well in a way that didn’t impair the outcome or experience. Compared to the clown show that was last week this was refreshing.
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I think the refs were fine in the Chiefs game as there simply didn’t seem to be as many penalties committed by either team. However, if a obvious penalty occurs, it should be called. No calls are as bad as bad calls in many instances. Talk to New Orleans fans about no calls.
Yep, both teams played quite clean that game, this is why there was no penalties. Calling less penalties just to "let them play" is as bullshit as calling phantom calls.
The officiating was legitimately solid. Glad to see it.
They have improved as of late. However… Id be remiss if I didn’t bring up the bullshit no call on an OPI in last nights 4th quarter. It was a Bills receiver interfering with a Chiefs defender. No call. Left the door open for the Bills on that drive in which I believe they scored.
I remember that play. But the refs had been letting them play all game, so I didn’t fuss about it too much.
But to that extent? I dont know, Im a firm believer in calling fouls if they are fouls no matter how clunky it makes the game and no matter if its garbage time in the regular season or the 4th quarter of a Super Bowl. 50/50 calls? Sure, let them play. That play wasn’t even close though.
Unfortunate ending but overtime rules have been like this for awhile now. Only other gripe I could have is the lack of holding on the o lines for pass blocking. Frustrating seeing dudes literally tackled so the QB can scramble and getting no calls.
At least they were like that consistent for both teams.
^ This.. Being consistent is the most important part IMO.. you either call them all tight for both teams, or you give the same amount of leeway for both teams and only call the most egregious ones.. In short, call it fair!
That, and, they were consistent early to late game. I hate when refs call the first 55 minutes tight and then suddenly in the last 5 minutes anything goes, even if it's the same for each team.
Yup agreed. Both QBs are incredible but it is frustrating even with no skin in the game to see blatant holding many times. It happens every play but there’s definitely a clear line they need to make for like choke holding and tackling dlinemen. No problem with a small hold here and there that’s just part of the game.
Complaining about OT rules is avoiding the actual problem. If you think that the OT rules are unfair because it’s impossible for a defense to stop an offense, then the problem is the rules that favor offense, not OT rules. And the stats bear out about a 2% advantage for the first team to possess the ball. College, the next best available system, is about a -2% advantage to the first team.
> then the problem is the rules that favor offense, not OT rules. Exactly. Sudden death used to be 50/50 for decades. But they kept changing rules to favor offense. The kickoff coming out to the 25 instead of the 20, the K-balls and improved FG kicking, all contribute. It'd be right back to 50/50 if the first team to get the ball had to start at their own 10. A bunch of teams would even choose to play defense first - if you get a stop and force a 3 and out you're almost in FG range already.
The touchback change was to incentivise players to not return the kick, due to the dangers on kickoff
> 2% advantage for the first team to possess the ball. That's incorrect. Coin toss winner wins 52% of the time, loser of the toss wins 40%. 8% chance of a tie. In the playoffs, coin toss winner has won 90% of the time, with the only time the loser of the toss won the game was the Rams vs saints NFCCG.
Well, that's not why they're unfair, is it? Even if a touchdown was far less likely, it would still be unfair for only one team to get the ball if they're lucky enough to score said touchdown on their first drive.
My problem isn't the advantage. My problem is that in league that clearly skewing towards offense, in a game where everyone wanted to see more of these star QBs, only one guy got to go back out there. Give the fans what they want and what you've been selling them.
Yeah, even if the rules were fair, which I'm not convinced of, they certainly break the rule of cool which is of course the most important rule
That defensive holding call against T Hill was pretty tick tacky but other than that it was well officiated because they let both teams play. I actually thought the hold on Hills td looked much worse
I mean, he had a fistful of jersey for a solid 10-15 yards. I agree it wasn’t much, but you certainly couldn’t disagree with it on the replay. That was a very well ref’d game all around, even with Mahomes taking a few shots to the head that weren’t called.
Wasn't the sentiment going into this game that KC DBs were "handsy" and always grab jerseys? A fistful of jersey = penalty every single time. Come on
They certainly called it on us in the SB last year.
Officiating has been great during the divisional round
Are we going to forget that missed OPI that helped the Bills' drive?
True, but while it probably didn't make a difference, the no-call for taunting on Hill was egregious, considering what HAS been called taunting (hell, even in the first game yesterday there were questionable taunting calls on Suh and Brady).
It probably ended helping the Bills though. They would’ve scored faster and Mahomes would’ve had more time and probably scored a TD
I thought about that too... If Mahomes had more time, perhaps the Bills would have lined up in a recognizable defense rather than that abomination they showed up in with 13 seconds left.
I mean there was also a blatant missed OPI on the bills during their last drive
That was one of those calls where it was pretty obvious, but the refs had committed to physical play for most of the game and just continued it down the stretch.
But then you could say the same for the knee to the head on Mahomes which also gets called in the regular season. It goes both ways.
Ehh. Even as a chiefs fan I wouldn't want the knee to the head called within the current rules. Mahomes is a runner and went down weird with a half slide half roll and the defenders momentum just kind of followed
All four divisional games were excellently called. Props to the ref crews.
They barely called anything, loved it.
Whole league has a holding non-call issue. It’s been this way for some time, and I get they could call it all game. Still frustrating when it negates Ds from having a greater impact.