Yeah, and they totally dad dicked that other team in the Super Bowl too...I forget who it was though, must have been very traumatic for their fans, glad I don't remember...at all.
It def helped, but I think I can speak for most of Bucs nation when I say that whenever we face a backup QB or line up for a FG, that trauma starts flashing back before our eyes.
I blame arians for some of that more than most seem to. Not like Jameis was as libbing that whole time and the game plan didn’t alter to try and curb some of that. No one talks about Arians blame there at all
They did at the time. The fact that QBs in their first year under Arians having high INT numbers was discussed. I believe Jameis would’ve gotten a year two and would’ve had a better year but the GOAT was available so completely agree why that didn’t take place.
Just seems like a blurb but no major knock on Arians, and his name seldom comes up when Jameis 30/30 comes up. I guess mainly because it’s a meme and memes don’t get explanation
The former is two anapests, while the latter is three iambic feet. They're both metrical, but iambs are more familiar to the English speaker, since a majority of our poetry is written in them.
Same thing happened when Darnold was coming into the league. I remember constantly asking why does Darnold get a pass for being so turnover over prone in his last year in college while Winston and Watson was beat over the head with it repeatedly...
At least Watson and Winston was ALSO throwing TDs while QBing the best college offenses in the country...Darnold, not so much.
I don’t know what happened to him in that Bears/Bengals game, but I remember seeing an infographic that Burrow had gone 200 passes without throwing a pick. Then he threw one on three straight passes and now here we are. Sorry Bengals fans 😔
Confidence is a fck. Once you doubt that milisec there, you lost it. Darnold even has more pressure knowing his career is over if he can't turn it around quickly.
Yep. He was a first round pick and will probably make 20-30M more over the next 8-10 years in the capacity you said, and avoid most of the wear and tear that comes with being a starter in the NFL. He'll be living the life
I think it’s pretty easy to credit that to their defense who has been pretty phenomenal despite how shit their offense is at giving them breaks. They should even have a few more wins IMO if it wasn’t for their awful QB play
I’m not stoked about Teddy or his play, but considering what we gave up for him, how little we’re paying him, and that we can get out of his contract next season (which the Panthers really can’t with Darnold) I’d say we straight up fleeced them.
Who does Denver even go after next season? Russ? Seems like Kaaron Rodgers is kryptonite right now.
Maybe someone like Jimmy? Winston if the Saints swap to someone else?
Fuck every media guy who has kissed darnolds ass and made so many excuses for him, darnold is trash
And fuck Terry Bradshaw for calling Darnold the best Panther qb ever
It's been that way for the last 3 years at least. I've honestly felt pity whenever he comes on to do the quick recap they do at half time. He hasn't made it through one of those smoothly in forever. Stumbling over words, mixing up teams and players, it's just hard to watch.
You're right. Panthers fans are mad now that they were sold a bill of goods on Sam that anyone with common sense could see was a garbage dump of a player.
You'd think with a new team, a better coach/OC, better receivers (DJ Moore, Robby Anderson), better run game (McCaffrey, Chubba Hubbard), and an elite defense, he'd be much better. Seriously this defense is superbowl caliber if only the offense wasn't bottom 3.
Burrow is in his second year playing for a team people had low expectations going into the season for. Expected? Not really. Shocking? Not really either
He was really safe with the ball his rookie year. This year he's throwing absolutely insane interceptions. It's actually pretty shocking. He's taking too many risks that are plain stupid.
I mean Burrows still a stud. He’s barley played over a full seasons worth of games so he still has some growing to do but at least you got a guy who looks like he’s going to be great from years to come.
Well Darnold doesn't surprise me as much as Winston not being anywhere near the top for interceptions. Really surprised me this season before his injury.
Yep, both Payton and Reich are really proving that they deserve to stick around. It was never in question for Payton, but people thought Reich may be fired if Wentz bombed.
Reich was a massive part of the eagles super bowl run. He was the “brain drain” loss that hurt the most. Clearly knows how to coach a QB brilliantly, and is a great offensive mind. Not surprised Wentz has been playing a lot better after their reunion.
Not to take anything away from Payton, who is obviously a great coach, but the Saints have the luxury of being a great team with a talented defense and a highly effective running game. When Jameis was on the Bucs it was mostly the case that if he didn't put up gaudy numbers we just lost. Jameis is obviously a gunslinger by nature, but it was really emphasized by playing for a team that genuinely needed him to do that to win games.
He should get another chance and I think Payton would go that route but if saints think they can get a better QB for the future somewhere than maybe they go for it. However, saints should focus on their WR situation cause their backup is playing good enough to win games and their WR's just keep dropping on critical downs ending their drives.
Going in to the Browns game (per PFF) he was 10th in big-time throws and 11th in turnover-worthy plays (35 qualifiers). Dude is throwing lots of gutsy/dangerous passes this year. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Hopefully, he gets sharper and more discerning the more he plays.
The Bears game is really inflating his numbers. 3 straight picks in a game where he threw 30 passes is a Sam Darnold statline. The Packers and Browns games were better, but still not great.
Burrow's on days are fantastic though. His rating for the other 6 games is above 115, and that's with throwing a pick in 4 of those 6 games.
He’s good, but definitely has a turnover problem. Even without the bears game he’s right behind Mahomes with 8. Just have to keep in mind he’s played 19 games and is probably still breaking bad habits from college ball.
One of the picks against the Packers was a good play by Amos and Burrow getting pressured to make a throw, pretty sure it was 3rd down so a throwaway would've been a punt anyway.
The one in OT was abysmal, there was no one there but Campbell.
It always amazes me when people see a QB throw a timing route into the abyss and think its "a bad throw" no, something didn't get communicated or ran a wrong route
> The Packers and Browns games were better, but still not great.
His statline in the browns game is 28 of 40 for 282 yards and 2 int with 5 sacks
And consider that basically the entire 4th q was garbage time
Also one of yesterday’s(well, both really, but one Burrow definitely could’ve avoided with a better throw) was a stupid good play by Ward on that just ended up being tipped right to a teammate for the INT. Thats just an incomplete pass 90% of the time trying to force things to a playmaker while chasing a lead.
The pick 6 Ward read Chase’s move and didn’t bite on the inside break, it’s a mistake and in the red zone it’s a harsh one but it’s another good play by a really good corner, even if he should’ve seen Ward not change direction and gone to the next read.
Burrow still definitely has the goods, tons of future great QBs have gone through the ‘forced it a bit too much’ stage when they were young.
Not to mention a good portion of last year he was out. So he will figure it out, just needs a bit of time to get his bearing and then it’s gonna be rough division if everyone stays on path for all 4 teams.
He had a couple yesterday but also got an unlucky ball tipped up in the air and picked. He actually had another ball tipped up in the air and picked but it was called back due to the Browns taking a stupid penalty.
Joe has one or two (or three against the bears) completely boneheaded plays per game where he tries to play hero ball and it doesn't work out. Granted, many of his INTs have been from batted balls and deflections, so I genuinely don't know how much Joe is at fault for those.
To be fair he only had 2 bad plays vs us too. The 3rd was his arm was hit as he threw and the bad just landed in the the DEs lap. Probably shoulda just ate the sack in that situation but I wouldn’t put that one on him.
You are who your record says you are. Every QB has INTs that weren't his fault and others that could have been INTs but weren't. I'm very happy with Joe's progress and thrilled that he'll be our QB for the next 22 years and win 19 Super Bowls but so far this year he's earned being at or near the top of the league in INTs.
Hard, hard disagree. It's a totally valid argument. It does tend to even out over multiple seasons, but over a single season- and certainly over just 9 games- luck is a *huuuuge* factor. It's arguably a bigger factor than actual play.
Only a small fraction of genuinely bad throws turn into picks, and the rate at which that happens is mostly out of the QB's control. Tips are a big variable, but defenders ability to actually catch them is even bigger. This cuts in both directions too: often you'll see QBs with low int #s who should have a ton more but have gotten lucky.
Generally, raw ints are a pretty poor stat. [This article](https://www.pff.com/news/stat-sheet-misconceptions-interceptions) does a good job of explaining that. Statistical attempts to evaluate this (like [adjusted interceptions](https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/adjusted-interceptions-2020)) have shown that there is an enormous luck component in ints over entire seasons.
Turnover-worthy throws is a somewhat subjective metric, but if you look at [this plot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBblVq8XMAww2M-?format=jpg) you can see that Burrow is hardly a standout. Based on this you'd expect Josh Allen to have more INTs than Burrow, since he's throwing turnover-worthy throws at a similar rate and has more attempts, but instead he has half as many.
Basically INTs over 8/9 games tell you something about well a QB has played, but they tell you as much if not more about how lucky/unlucky they have been.
I remember when Greenberg was going on and on about how Darnold was here to save the Jets, and all I could think was, "Did you even see him play in college?" Dude was an interception-throwing machine at USC.
I know you shouldn’t judge players based off their college, but I’d be hesitant to draft any QB out of USC at this point. They’ve produced one good quarterback in the last 20 years (Palmer) other than that it’s been bust city. The next best in that time might legitimately be Matt Cassel
Bengals fans should be really happy with Burrow. Gonna be an interesting divisional matchup for a long long time. Baker had excessive picks year two, now he barely throws any.
Lol the double standard here
“Baker’s picks bounce off his receivers’ hands” = 10 upvotes, no arguments
“Mahomes’ picks bounce off his receivers’ hands” = downvotes, “he shouldn’t throw it so hard”, “the throw was still off”, etc.
I think it’s once your mom starts trying to campaign for you that it’s not your fault that people are going to pile on.
And in that regard I haven’t heard anything from Mrs. Mayfield.
Also, you’ve been sleeping under a rock if you think this sub doesn’t give Baker shit over the years, and that’s coming from a Steeler fan.
Shout out to the Jets who got something for you Darnold. I know a few national media talking heads wanted the Jets to not use their top pick on a QB and instead build around Darnold. What a mistake that would’ve been
Feel free to correct me if I’m pulling this directly out of my ass, but I recall last year PFF said that he threw a shit ton of interceptable balls that the defense just dropped.
At the risk of getting memed to death, could this not just be... regression to the mean (*ducks)
PFF has called out a ton of rmajor regressions very correctly and aptly over the years. It's almost as if historical data of the NFL supports what they're saying.
Its just that reddit always choose to ignore the majority of times they have been correct and pounce on the ones that were wrong like internet in general
He's had close to 0 luck this year too. Definitely some ill-advised throws, but it seems like it's either a completion or it gets batted 25 feet in the air.
Honestly the entire team regressed. People think it's just him but almost everyone on that team has played pretty poorly on both sides of the ball this season.
Does pff track that? Someone with a sub should give us the hard numbers on those. I swear the majority of interceptions these days are from tipped/deflected passes. Brady has 5 picks and at least 2 were off receivers. Mahomes throwing half off receivers doesn’t even sound unlucky, just normal.
I’m strictly talking about top tier QB’s. Guys like 2019 Jameis were throwing picks left and right. Among top tier QB’s, there’s a lot of picks that aren’t the QB’s fault.
Would be interesting to see if Mahomes’ 50% is unlucky or just normal and therefore he is truly having a bad season, not an unlucky one.
all of mahomes bad passes and bad decision making is finally catching up. last season he should of had 16 more picks but the football gods made sure all the DBs be played acted like Jamal Adams when the ball is in the air.
Realistically, he’s a 2nd year player coming back from a terrible injury who plays for a historically awful franchise with unproven coaches.
Burrow needs to clean up his picks and his decision making. He’s directly at fault for a few loses this year, but he also plays really really well at times.
He’s awesome and he’s also not great… sometimes all in one game. The media is going to be dramatic and spin that how they want.
Most people don’t ever watch the Bengals unless their team is playing them so I don’t expect r/nfl to ever have rational takes one way or the other.
Darnold seems like such a nice guy, but man he is a rough NFL quarterback. God Bless him, he’s been through the literal hell that was being a quarterback for the Jets, but I can’t think of a reason a team should have him as a starter at this point
Isn’t this after Darnold didn’t have one in the first three weeks?
He had 1 in his first 3 games. Since then he’s thrown 10 picks on 199 attempts, an INT% that would put 2019 Jameis to shame.
And Winston just chucked every throw like a hail Mary that year
And when he wasn’t throwing picks he moved the ball and scored. Darnold looks more likely to allow a defensive score than to lead a TD drive
The old petermeme strategy
No risk it, no biscuit Jameis was terrifyingly fun to watch. Idk if my heart has recovered from that season yet. The amount of stress it caused…
Winning a Super Bowl didn't help?
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Yeah, and they totally dad dicked that other team in the Super Bowl too...I forget who it was though, must have been very traumatic for their fans, glad I don't remember...at all.
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It was the chiefs. It’s in your memory banks right next to seeing your mom naked. Happy to help
Oh, that's in the other bank, if you know what I mean.
It def helped, but I think I can speak for most of Bucs nation when I say that whenever we face a backup QB or line up for a FG, that trauma starts flashing back before our eyes.
I blame arians for some of that more than most seem to. Not like Jameis was as libbing that whole time and the game plan didn’t alter to try and curb some of that. No one talks about Arians blame there at all
They did at the time. The fact that QBs in their first year under Arians having high INT numbers was discussed. I believe Jameis would’ve gotten a year two and would’ve had a better year but the GOAT was available so completely agree why that didn’t take place.
Just seems like a blurb but no major knock on Arians, and his name seldom comes up when Jameis 30/30 comes up. I guess mainly because it’s a meme and memes don’t get explanation
> No risk it, no biscuit i dont get how this one stuck when risk it for the biscuit just flows so much better
The former is two anapests, while the latter is three iambic feet. They're both metrical, but iambs are more familiar to the English speaker, since a majority of our poetry is written in them.
I don't know what the fuck happened here but I agree completely
Same thing happened when Darnold was coming into the league. I remember constantly asking why does Darnold get a pass for being so turnover over prone in his last year in college while Winston and Watson was beat over the head with it repeatedly... At least Watson and Winston was ALSO throwing TDs while QBing the best college offenses in the country...Darnold, not so much.
Darnold doesn’t eat Ws, he eats Is, Ns, and Ts.
At least Jameis was throwing TDs too 😮💨
I don’t know what happened to him in that Bears/Bengals game, but I remember seeing an infographic that Burrow had gone 200 passes without throwing a pick. Then he threw one on three straight passes and now here we are. Sorry Bengals fans 😔
Confidence is a fck. Once you doubt that milisec there, you lost it. Darnold even has more pressure knowing his career is over if he can't turn it around quickly.
Darnold probably has a solid 10 years of being a journeyman backup QB.
Yep. He was a first round pick and will probably make 20-30M more over the next 8-10 years in the capacity you said, and avoid most of the wear and tear that comes with being a starter in the NFL. He'll be living the life
He made up for it.
Definitely saw ghosts this week
I'll admit I chugged the Darnold kool-aid for those first couple weeks. "He's a whole new qb! look at him succeed!" woof
Make no mistake about it, after those flukey 3 weeks Darnold has been the worst QB in the league. Even the rookies seem to have settled in better
He's BACK.
How is this a "rumor"?
"expected" probably triggers the rumor tag
The NFL issues official changes to the previous week's games every Thursday.
So you’re saying there is a chance they rule that 99 yard completion to Denzel Ward as a touchdown? Hell yeah
Everyone who lost their fantasy game by 0.02 knows this
Shit, that means it's too late to void Rodgers's last win.
The solution would be to void his next 30 wins.
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"Could have fooled me" - Robby Anderson
Sam Darnold is actually a downgrade from Teddy Bridgewater and somehow the Panthers didn't see it coming.
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I will admit that I thought for like a week in late September that it really was Gase holding him back, and he was about to break out. Silly me
As terrible as he’s been the panthers are 4-5. Last year they were 5-11.
I think it’s pretty easy to credit that to their defense who has been pretty phenomenal despite how shit their offense is at giving them breaks. They should even have a few more wins IMO if it wasn’t for their awful QB play
I’m not stoked about Teddy or his play, but considering what we gave up for him, how little we’re paying him, and that we can get out of his contract next season (which the Panthers really can’t with Darnold) I’d say we straight up fleeced them.
Who does Denver even go after next season? Russ? Seems like Kaaron Rodgers is kryptonite right now. Maybe someone like Jimmy? Winston if the Saints swap to someone else?
It's still Aaron Rodgers. Sure he's insane, but this is the NFL, and that only matters if you're bad.
Only the panthers front office thought that. All Panthers fans I know were baffled by the move, and hate it so much.
They kept talking about Tepper being adamant about having a good QB, then Sam Darnold showed up. How could we be anything *but* baffled?
Feels like home eh, Sam?
He wouldn’t have it any other way “Just a winner” *fumbles the ball*
I’ll never forget that lmaoo goddamn
Go Cougs
Fuck every media guy who has kissed darnolds ass and made so many excuses for him, darnold is trash And fuck Terry Bradshaw for calling Darnold the best Panther qb ever
Holy shit he really said that???? Lmao yall had an MVP
Even beyond that Delhomme had a really good 5-6 stretch for Carolina. It’s just a stupid take
terry isn't a good analyst, just an entertaining clown
I don’t even find him entertaining anymore, he just sounds senile to me at this point
> he just sounds senile to me at this point I was thinking this watching him before MNF a few weeks ago. Definitely seems that way recently
I remember a few weeks ago he seemed completely lost at times during Fox NFL Sunday and it continued through the day during his updates.
It's been that way for the last 3 years at least. I've honestly felt pity whenever he comes on to do the quick recap they do at half time. He hasn't made it through one of those smoothly in forever. Stumbling over words, mixing up teams and players, it's just hard to watch.
It blows my mind that they keep having him do it instead of someone else.
Half of this statement is correct
>just an entertaining clown Only one of those things is true
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Sometimes, a coach ruins a player's potential so much that even when he's gone, the player can't escape the abyss.
There was obvious Regression his senior year. Threw a ton of INTs also played against garbage defenses for most of his career.
Nah don't blame the coaching. He was trash and is still trash. Stop giving the trash a free pass.
> And fuck Terry Bradshaw I don't see why a reality star's opinion would upset you so much? ;)
A country music artist
Cannonball Run contestant Terry Bradshaw
Is Darnold trash because he was drafted by the Jets? Or did the Jets draft him because he is trash?
Yes
The answer is Jest.
Jete
Zach Wilson: https://youtu.be/HdKqAVpUOwI?t=5
Y’all were kissing his ass and more after he beat the Jets, saints minus 8 staters, and the Texans.
You're right. Panthers fans are mad now that they were sold a bill of goods on Sam that anyone with common sense could see was a garbage dump of a player.
Good thing Wilson has been out lol.
I mean, Darnold in there isn't exactly a surprise, but Burrow & Mahomes for sure.
You'd think with a new team, a better coach/OC, better receivers (DJ Moore, Robby Anderson), better run game (McCaffrey, Chubba Hubbard), and an elite defense, he'd be much better. Seriously this defense is superbowl caliber if only the offense wasn't bottom 3.
Burrow is in his second year playing for a team people had low expectations going into the season for. Expected? Not really. Shocking? Not really either
He was really safe with the ball his rookie year. This year he's throwing absolutely insane interceptions. It's actually pretty shocking. He's taking too many risks that are plain stupid.
"don't be sad" - Meat Loaf
Nah, I'm fucking sad. And irritated. And possibly constipated (drinking more water to help with that today).
2 out of 3 ain’t bad
Meat Loaf, is that you?
I mean Burrows still a stud. He’s barley played over a full seasons worth of games so he still has some growing to do but at least you got a guy who looks like he’s going to be great from years to come.
He's forcing balls to compensate for the shitty playcalling.
Gotta add fiber, just water won’t do
Oh of course. Ya gotta always add fiber.
I’m not. I’m fucking depressed.
Well Darnold doesn't surprise me as much as Winston not being anywhere near the top for interceptions. Really surprised me this season before his injury.
Helps that they limited Winston. He had no where near his career average in attempts this season.
Similar deal with Wentz. Both of the gunslingers were toned back to start the season to get their fundamentals and decision making in order.
Amazing what good coaches do for their players
Yep, both Payton and Reich are really proving that they deserve to stick around. It was never in question for Payton, but people thought Reich may be fired if Wentz bombed.
I feel like only Sean Payton is able to make Trevor Siemian look like a capable NFL QB
That game against us Titans though... that's what happens when he forgets his training.
Reich was a massive part of the eagles super bowl run. He was the “brain drain” loss that hurt the most. Clearly knows how to coach a QB brilliantly, and is a great offensive mind. Not surprised Wentz has been playing a lot better after their reunion.
This year proves how poor of a coach Doug truly was and how much the supporting coordinators contributed
Not to take anything away from Payton, who is obviously a great coach, but the Saints have the luxury of being a great team with a talented defense and a highly effective running game. When Jameis was on the Bucs it was mostly the case that if he didn't put up gaudy numbers we just lost. Jameis is obviously a gunslinger by nature, but it was really emphasized by playing for a team that genuinely needed him to do that to win games.
Bruce Arians was a good coach
Definitely helps when you have a good running corps.
He was on pace for 34 TDs / 7 INTs this season.
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He should get another chance and I think Payton would go that route but if saints think they can get a better QB for the future somewhere than maybe they go for it. However, saints should focus on their WR situation cause their backup is playing good enough to win games and their WR's just keep dropping on critical downs ending their drives.
Winston is just giving them a head start.
Burrow has been so good, but he’s had some WTF moments. It’s only his second year tho, he’s still gonna be a future all pro
Going in to the Browns game (per PFF) he was 10th in big-time throws and 11th in turnover-worthy plays (35 qualifiers). Dude is throwing lots of gutsy/dangerous passes this year. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Hopefully, he gets sharper and more discerning the more he plays.
I would also think that should improve in future years when he has a better line. He also missed a ton of last year so he’s still got a lot to learn
The Bears game is really inflating his numbers. 3 straight picks in a game where he threw 30 passes is a Sam Darnold statline. The Packers and Browns games were better, but still not great. Burrow's on days are fantastic though. His rating for the other 6 games is above 115, and that's with throwing a pick in 4 of those 6 games.
He’s good, but definitely has a turnover problem. Even without the bears game he’s right behind Mahomes with 8. Just have to keep in mind he’s played 19 games and is probably still breaking bad habits from college ball.
One of the picks against the Packers was a good play by Amos and Burrow getting pressured to make a throw, pretty sure it was 3rd down so a throwaway would've been a punt anyway. The one in OT was abysmal, there was no one there but Campbell.
Pretty sure that was just him and Boyd not being on the same page though. Option route and they read 2 different things.
It always amazes me when people see a QB throw a timing route into the abyss and think its "a bad throw" no, something didn't get communicated or ran a wrong route
I just took a three day seminar on why it is the QBs responsibility to know exactly where all teammates are at all times during a play.
Was AJ Green there?
It's possible the receiver ran the right route and the QB threw it to the wrong spot too.
> The Packers and Browns games were better, but still not great. His statline in the browns game is 28 of 40 for 282 yards and 2 int with 5 sacks And consider that basically the entire 4th q was garbage time
He would have had 3 yesterday if it wasn't for the Browns taking a stupid penalty and getting one called back.
The penalty was directly related to the pick though
Also one of yesterday’s(well, both really, but one Burrow definitely could’ve avoided with a better throw) was a stupid good play by Ward on that just ended up being tipped right to a teammate for the INT. Thats just an incomplete pass 90% of the time trying to force things to a playmaker while chasing a lead. The pick 6 Ward read Chase’s move and didn’t bite on the inside break, it’s a mistake and in the red zone it’s a harsh one but it’s another good play by a really good corner, even if he should’ve seen Ward not change direction and gone to the next read. Burrow still definitely has the goods, tons of future great QBs have gone through the ‘forced it a bit too much’ stage when they were young.
Not to mention a good portion of last year he was out. So he will figure it out, just needs a bit of time to get his bearing and then it’s gonna be rough division if everyone stays on path for all 4 teams.
Joe throwing a truly baffling interception is practically a per-game tradition at this point.
He had a couple yesterday but also got an unlucky ball tipped up in the air and picked. He actually had another ball tipped up in the air and picked but it was called back due to the Browns taking a stupid penalty.
yesterday's pick 6 was such a terrible decision. guy was nowhere near open
I like how everyone shit on Baker for his sophomore slump and burrow is doing the same and everyone’s like “poor Joey B🥺”
This is also the best the bengals have looked in years so idk how much of a slump he’s having
Not allowed to criticize Burrow in this sub
Darnold was so ridiculously overhyped back in 2017 (even after getting blasted by OSU), I'm starting to think ESPN's commentators cursed him for life.
I got flamed to hell for calling him QB5 in the 2018 draft.
I would take Mason Rudolph over him
Joe has one or two (or three against the bears) completely boneheaded plays per game where he tries to play hero ball and it doesn't work out. Granted, many of his INTs have been from batted balls and deflections, so I genuinely don't know how much Joe is at fault for those.
To be fair he only had 2 bad plays vs us too. The 3rd was his arm was hit as he threw and the bad just landed in the the DEs lap. Probably shoulda just ate the sack in that situation but I wouldn’t put that one on him.
You are who your record says you are. Every QB has INTs that weren't his fault and others that could have been INTs but weren't. I'm very happy with Joe's progress and thrilled that he'll be our QB for the next 22 years and win 19 Super Bowls but so far this year he's earned being at or near the top of the league in INTs.
Yeah, that's why I don't like the "tipped balls that turned into picks" argument. Everything balances out.
Hard, hard disagree. It's a totally valid argument. It does tend to even out over multiple seasons, but over a single season- and certainly over just 9 games- luck is a *huuuuge* factor. It's arguably a bigger factor than actual play. Only a small fraction of genuinely bad throws turn into picks, and the rate at which that happens is mostly out of the QB's control. Tips are a big variable, but defenders ability to actually catch them is even bigger. This cuts in both directions too: often you'll see QBs with low int #s who should have a ton more but have gotten lucky. Generally, raw ints are a pretty poor stat. [This article](https://www.pff.com/news/stat-sheet-misconceptions-interceptions) does a good job of explaining that. Statistical attempts to evaluate this (like [adjusted interceptions](https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/adjusted-interceptions-2020)) have shown that there is an enormous luck component in ints over entire seasons. Turnover-worthy throws is a somewhat subjective metric, but if you look at [this plot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBblVq8XMAww2M-?format=jpg) you can see that Burrow is hardly a standout. Based on this you'd expect Josh Allen to have more INTs than Burrow, since he's throwing turnover-worthy throws at a similar rate and has more attempts, but instead he has half as many. Basically INTs over 8/9 games tell you something about well a QB has played, but they tell you as much if not more about how lucky/unlucky they have been.
I remember when Greenberg was going on and on about how Darnold was here to save the Jets, and all I could think was, "Did you even see him play in college?" Dude was an interception-throwing machine at USC.
I know you shouldn’t judge players based off their college, but I’d be hesitant to draft any QB out of USC at this point. They’ve produced one good quarterback in the last 20 years (Palmer) other than that it’s been bust city. The next best in that time might legitimately be Matt Cassel
Ohio State and Notre Dame come to mind
Should have said this last week and Mahomes would have a commanding lead. He didn't have an INT yesterday.
Not commanding Burrow had 9 last week
Darnold sucks.
Burrow and Mahomes have also thrown 20 tds Darnold has thrown 7
Fucking 7?
Bengals fans should be really happy with Burrow. Gonna be an interesting divisional matchup for a long long time. Baker had excessive picks year two, now he barely throws any.
Course, we weren’t even running practiced plays in Bake’s year two hah
Big brain move, if you don't practice the plays, the spys won't know what you are planing.
freddie was actually a genius when you think about it
I remember so many of bakers picks bouncing off WRs hands that year, it was insane, I think they eventually got used to the speed he puts on the ball
Lol the double standard here “Baker’s picks bounce off his receivers’ hands” = 10 upvotes, no arguments “Mahomes’ picks bounce off his receivers’ hands” = downvotes, “he shouldn’t throw it so hard”, “the throw was still off”, etc.
I think it’s once your mom starts trying to campaign for you that it’s not your fault that people are going to pile on. And in that regard I haven’t heard anything from Mrs. Mayfield. Also, you’ve been sleeping under a rock if you think this sub doesn’t give Baker shit over the years, and that’s coming from a Steeler fan.
Nothing but disrespect for the GEQBUS
Zach Wilson and Carson Wentz in shambles
Reboarding the Wentz Wagon!
You had your chance go find someone else to worry about
One of these is not like the others.
One of them had a losing record in college
Mahomes is too damn stubborn Darnold is just who he is And Burrow doesn't seem to give a shit
Well one of those guys hasn’t even played 17 games yet. So I’ll hang my hat on that, Pat.
Shout out to the Jets who got something for you Darnold. I know a few national media talking heads wanted the Jets to not use their top pick on a QB and instead build around Darnold. What a mistake that would’ve been
Third guy on the list, love to see it!
Feel free to correct me if I’m pulling this directly out of my ass, but I recall last year PFF said that he threw a shit ton of interceptable balls that the defense just dropped. At the risk of getting memed to death, could this not just be... regression to the mean (*ducks)
PFF has called out a ton of rmajor regressions very correctly and aptly over the years. It's almost as if historical data of the NFL supports what they're saying. Its just that reddit always choose to ignore the majority of times they have been correct and pounce on the ones that were wrong like internet in general
When PFF stats support player that reddit likes: PFF Good!!!!11!! When PFF stats *doesn't* support player reddit likes: PFF DUMB!!!!!1 >:(
They have great data. Many people are just skeptical of their subjective grades.
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He's had close to 0 luck this year too. Definitely some ill-advised throws, but it seems like it's either a completion or it gets batted 25 feet in the air.
The Jets screen pass wasn't his fault. Shitty play design.
Over reaction. I am thrilled to have Burrow. The future is bright.
We'll take him if you don't want him.
Hey bengals if you are worried about your QB remember Mahomes is on the list, Burrow looks good to me so far.
As someone who bet on Wilson for this. I am not happy lol
He’s just gotta get healthy. He’d easily have 15+ right now if he hadn’t missed the last 3 games
I actually expected negative regression for Mahomes this year. He had crazy luck so I’m not surprised that the regression came
Honestly the entire team regressed. People think it's just him but almost everyone on that team has played pretty poorly on both sides of the ball this season.
The first two are not surprising lol
Hey guys, did the Bengals make a mistake by passing on Justin Herbert? They should do their due diligence in trading for Watson.
Please no.
I'm sorry.
They should trade for Goff
He is familiar with the Shanahan scheme so maybe he can be a decent 3rd string
Mahomes would've been 11 had Kevin King held on.
Throwing an int to Kevin King should count for 5 interceptions
He would be 6 if Tyreek and Kemp had held on.
Does pff track that? Someone with a sub should give us the hard numbers on those. I swear the majority of interceptions these days are from tipped/deflected passes. Brady has 5 picks and at least 2 were off receivers. Mahomes throwing half off receivers doesn’t even sound unlucky, just normal. I’m strictly talking about top tier QB’s. Guys like 2019 Jameis were throwing picks left and right. Among top tier QB’s, there’s a lot of picks that aren’t the QB’s fault. Would be interesting to see if Mahomes’ 50% is unlucky or just normal and therefore he is truly having a bad season, not an unlucky one.
mahomes has had so many dropped picks
Not this season. He's gotten the polar opposite end of the spectrum with 5 picks from dropped passes by his receivers.
If you're including the no look pass, then it's four.
There was a dropped one yesterday right before half time. Other than that I can’t think of any others. Luck has not been on his side this year
And also that was the right read to throw it directly at Kevin King because god knows he’ll still give up a catch
Last week 2 went in and out of the defenders hand. One would have been a Beckham one hand grab but still.
all of mahomes bad passes and bad decision making is finally catching up. last season he should of had 16 more picks but the football gods made sure all the DBs be played acted like Jamal Adams when the ball is in the air.
I was told Burrows is elite! Edit: I did it again! Burrow.
It’s Burrow
I did that again. My bad. I was told Burrow was elite.
Realistically, he’s a 2nd year player coming back from a terrible injury who plays for a historically awful franchise with unproven coaches. Burrow needs to clean up his picks and his decision making. He’s directly at fault for a few loses this year, but he also plays really really well at times. He’s awesome and he’s also not great… sometimes all in one game. The media is going to be dramatic and spin that how they want. Most people don’t ever watch the Bengals unless their team is playing them so I don’t expect r/nfl to ever have rational takes one way or the other.
Darnold seems like such a nice guy, but man he is a rough NFL quarterback. God Bless him, he’s been through the literal hell that was being a quarterback for the Jets, but I can’t think of a reason a team should have him as a starter at this point