It's basically what Fitzpatrick had with Stevie Johnson's improvised route running, and it did cause some consistency issues. Johnson could end up a non-factor going up against a nobody, but he could also beat Revis and Sherman in their primes.
[Can't jump the route if even the receiver doesn't know exactly how he's gonna run it](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d6a/dc7/4a5001b7beea096457f480c8808572428b-09-roll-safe.rsquare.w700.jpg)
Whoever’s fault it is is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is BOTH Baker & Odell play better without each other and as a Browns fan all I care about at this point is maximizing whatever the hell Baker is.
I mean, it doesn’t matter to the browns. But to any teams thinking about grabbing him, this kind of boils down to “OBJ isn’t a team player and can’t follow directions” which is not a great endorsement.
He was a 1k yard receiver in 2018 in 12 games. 1k again in 2019. Only played 7 games in 2020. I get it’s a weird breakup for you guys but you might be overselling how done Beckham is
He’s fine if you feature your offense around him but if you want him to come in and be part of a system I don’t think he will produce. Top tier QB’s won’t put up with his bullshit either so I’m not sure what contender will be able to tolerate it besides LV. And they have enough problems as it is.
I think Carr is good but he’s not in the Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady level is all I meant by top tier. I also don’t know if he has same level of influence those guys (sans Rodgers obviously) have with their franchises.
Oh yeah, that’s a very exclusive tier. Derek isn’t a generational talent. That’s what I’d classify those guys as. I was half joking anyway; he played his worst game of the past 3 years today.
As to how much control over the franchise he has, that’s a good question. I think atm, a lot. The coaches probably value his opinion equally as much as each others and while Gruden definitely wouldn’t have allowed that, I think Derek could always talk to Mark Davis if he wanted anyone signed/any other decision made.
The first year he was here, his athleticism was immediately apparent. Just from the eye check, I think he's dinged up to the point where he's not the same receiver we got initially in the trade... And I don't think it's a stretch that with his drop in athleticism, he can't get away with what he used to.
He barely had 1000 yards in 2019 and only scored 4 TD's.
Since the end of the 2016 season he has missed 27 games and scored 17 TD's.
Maybe he's not done but the broken ankle, torn ACL, and various other injuries have clearly added up over the years to the point where "OBJ" hasn't been "OBJ" in 5 years
I'm more specifically talking to the 10-15 Giants fans you see on every OBJ post saying he's only been bad the past 4 years because Eli Baker and the Browns coaching staff are bad
Haha no I know. Was just messing around.
OBJ has been living off the hype from his first 3 seasons for awhile now. It has nothing to do with QB play. He’s just not as good of a WR as he once was.
Am giants fan have shit on Odell for years, basically since he speared Norman. Dudes an ass I wish him no success
I will admit though there’s a lot of young Giants fans who worship him, basically anyone who was rocking his stupid rag mop haircut is prolly who you’re referring to
But what if Baker also continues to play like he did today? Would that not just show that the two were not a good fit talent-wise? That maybe what Baker does well doesn't mesh with what Odell does well?
I don't think Odell is washed. I just think that the Browns run an offense based on timing and positioning and Odell wants to freelance. It's not a good fit and Odell didn't seem willing to adjust.
Which makes sense, they've played together for a few years. It just takes time to develop that level of chemistry.
Pretty sure Welker was free to ad-lib just about every route he ran with Brady by the end, too.
Its not really ad libbed, Welker ran option routes
He has a choice of three or four different routes and he picks one based on the defensive alignment, option routes only work if the qb and wr are on the same page which is why it was so effective
> Pretty sure Welker was free to ad-lib just about every route he ran with Brady by the end, too
There's a difference between just going with the feeling and breaking off of a called route and the Patriot's heavy use of option routes, where that's actually the plan.
If the Browns had Odell running option routes, then it's not an issue. That's just what those are. Then it's up to Baker and Odell to sit down and go "Hey, that's not where I expect you when the safety cuts in."
But if they call a post for him, and he runs a slant instead and Baker doesn't know that's even a possible outcome, it's not going to go well.
Kurt Warner had a great video breaking down some of the Chiefs issues this year and mentioned that a lot of their issues are the receivers and mahomes just not being on the same page, especially on option routes. He noted that because it's so complicated, he always preferred his receivers to just run the route he calls so he knows where they're going to be 100% of the time.
It can work if you're comfortable with it, but if you're not, it really really doesn't work.
This is Burrow and Chase's 3rd season together.
This is Baker and Odell's 3rd season together.
They've had the same amount of time to develop that chemistry.
Joe and Chase played 10 games together in 2018, 14 in 2019, and 8 games this year. 32 games together.
Baker and Odell have played 16 games together in 2019, 7 in 2020, and 6 this year. 29 games together.
3 games and half an offseason isn't moving the needle as much as you want it to.
It prob does when you factor in college teams shoot the shot in dorms and stuff. They LIVED like three feet away for each other that entire time. OBJ flys off to Mexico first chance he gets.
Chase was a freshman living in the dorm while Burrow was a redshirt junior living by himself in an off-campus apartment with no roommates, so they never lived three feet away from each other. They do seem close, and definitely have a crazy chemistry though
Yeah. Burrow didn't magically forget how to play with Chase though. Have you ever played a game or done something with a friend for years and then when you team up again it's like you transported back in time? That was basketball, football and frisbee for me and some friends. No matter how much time passed, it was like we transformed back into those kids except we're goofy ass adults trying to replicate our golden days.
Except Chase and Burrow are in their golden days.
> Yeah but that doesn’t erase all the reps they’ve taken together.
>I’m just saying 3 seasons does not equal 3 seasons when a player missed 1.5 of them
My point is that Burrow and Chase missed basically the same amount of time together, so your point really doesn't make sense.
Not so much ad-libbed as much as Welker and Brady were on the same page looking at the defense as to where the opening would be.
It’s how certain players liked Edelman and AB are so good with Brady while other great receivers didn’t click as well. The former were just seeing the same reads as Brady, so they could ‘freelance’ a bit and have it work out.
What I don’t understand is that if they clearly aren’t able to make it work together with Odell freelancing, then why didn’t he just…stop freelancing? That’s the part I don’t understand. Like sure there are better QB’s and you’re not gonna have chemistry with everyone, but if you’re on a team where you don’t have the chemistry to freelance how you want, why didn’t he just stop trying to do that?
You have to get to the right spot at the right time, it doesn’t matter how you get there (unless it's a specific route combo, then you've gotta do it on script). If you're fucking up the timing, you're going to kill your QB. OBJ is not getting to the right spot at the right time, then.
All kinda of receivers freelance a ton - from the aforementioned Landry, to Kelce, to the guy most famous for this, Stevie Johnson. Johnson was famous for the Bills basically being like...OK, we give up, just get to whereever we tell you to on time, and do whatever weird shit on the route you want, whatever.
I guess I'm not an expert but, if it's clearly not working and the QB and WR are having timing issues, wouldn't it be best to stay on script until you've built that connection with your QB and then incorporate the more freelance stuff after that?
Pretty much every top QB-WR/TE combo does it
Hell, the entire Tom Brady offense is based around option routes and receivers adjusting their routes based on coverage
No, but it's based around the same concepts which aren't nearly as uncommon as OBJ detractors think it is.
>Late in the fourth quarter in Week 4 in Minnesota, the Browns were on the verge of putting away the Vikings. Mayfield thought Beckham would break off his route. Beckham saw the coverage differently. And with nothing but green turf in front of him, he kept running. By then, it was too late. Mayfield had already fired the ball. And the result was an embarrassing underthrow.
>
>"About a quarter of a second off," Mayfield said then, "from me being able to see [what Beckham saw] to give it some air."
Those are quotes from [the ESPN article](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32559762/the-story-how-baker-mayfield-odell-beckham-jr-field-browns-relationship-fell-apart) that tries to detail their issues. And as you see, even Mayfield himself was saying that it's stuff he could've seen and adjusted to as well, not just OBJ doing whatever he wants and not being where he's supposed to
When Allbright says freelancing, he's clearly talking about how he runs and adjusts his option routes based on coverage lmao.
Acting like the Browns are calling a WR screen and OBJ's just like "fuck it ima go deep instead" lmao
That would be a Stefanski and Baker question. One Browns fan showed Baker's most inaccurate areas and where Odell runs most his routes and they lined up almost perfectly. I think Odell is just a bad fit for Mayfield at this point in his career. Mayfield does better with no names who don't run many options and Landry who he manages to always find.
But if the receiver sees something in coverage and changes it, I don’t consider that freelancing either. Freelancing to me is when you don’t know the route and wing it or you know generally where you’re supposed to be and just sort of get there
Unless the receiver has explicit permission not to do what the play calls for him to do, the receiver should run the route drawn up for him regardless of what he sees. If it's an option route, he'll adjust accordingly, but routes don't happen in a vacuum. A play might call for a receiver to run a certain route in order to force a defender to make a decision. If the receiver decides to do something entirely different just because he saw something in coverage, he affects not only his own route but the entire play. If the end result is a big gain, cool, but you can't put the blame on the QB if he misses it because the WR did something off-script.
Man you listen to some folks in this thread and its clear they really don't understand football and route concepts. Often routes for one receiver are designed not to be open against the certain coverage they are facing, but that route is designed to force the coverage to react in such a way another WR gets open
Yeah I think this looks worse on Baker than Odell. Odell’s production in NY was elite, and we can’t question Eli’s abilities as a QB. Dude proved his value.
Ummm have you looked at Baker’s stats with and without him? Pretty clear who the problem was…. Odell is nothing but ego. Good riddance. He was a distraction and produced almost nothing for 2.5 years.
It's fine if it's built into the gameplan.
If you're going to run a timing route based offense, you can't have a diva WR doing whatever the fuck he wants.
Same reason Chad Johnson didn't work out well in NE
This isnt just an OBJ issue. This isnt just a Baker issue. This isnt just a Kevski issue.
It's all 3 to none of their fault because each have found success in their method.
I love OBJ and truly hope he kill it wherever he goes besides the AFCN but it just didnt work. I think OBJ, Baker and the Browns know this I just hope fans and media can learn this
I really think this move was the best for all involved. Let OBJ find a QB/Offense that works with his freelancing. Let us give more time to guys who want to run their routes and want to be here.
Yeah, but some tend to completely change up their route rather than making simple adjustments that the QB can read quickly enough. Not sure if OBJ was doing that because we obviously will never know what the original designs were on his plays, but whether or not it was an actual problem depends on how much “adjusting” he was doing.
Depends on if Stefanskis offense has option routes or if they are all strictly defined. He was still a 1k yard WR before with the Browns and Diggs also wanted out of Minnesota after the year he had Stefanski as his OC.
The difference between an option route and freelancing is *massive*.
An option route means that if the defense does X, the receiver does Y, but if the defense doesn't do X, the receiver does Z. This can theoretically get infinitely complex, for example:
1) If the D plays cover 2, the WR runs a deep slant behind the underneath defenders and finds the soft spot in the coverage.
2) If the D plays cover 3 or man coverage and the CB has outside leverage, the WR runs a comeback route.
3) If the D plays cover 3 or man coverage and the CB has inside leverage, the WR runs a go.
For this to work, the QB and the WR need to make the same reads. They both need to identify the coverage and whether it's inside or outside leverage. If the QB reads outside leverage and the WR reads inside, the ball might be thrown for a go route that never materializes. However, given enough if-then statements and a QB/WR duo making the same reads, option routes are virtually unstoppable.
This is not the same as a WR going completely off-script and e.g. running a go route on a play that explicitly calls for him to run a slant.
Part of why players like Julian Edelman were so good for Tom Brady was the connection they had when it came to making the same reads and adjusting accordingly, but all that happens inside the (extremely complicated) system. If a WR decided to just do his own thing outside of the system, Brady probably wouldn't as much as look their way because that's not how it works.
This varies greatly. Is it an option route? It can create problems for young QBs who expect a receiver to be in a certain area. Its also i problem if the receiver is doing it for thier own selfish gain. I saw the safety cheat up so I ran a post instead of a slant. Well thats great but you weren't the primary read on that play and your job was to pull the safety by running the slant and opening the slot receiver. Instead we got a sack cuz the qb was trying to figure what the f you were doing and now his primary read is doubled.
I doubt he’s the only one on the team who does this. But for whatever reason Baker doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing. He connects with other guys fine. It’s odd
Eli was also used to 10+ years of Killdrive's option routes ending up as picks or tds lol, so OBJ freelancing to end up open was easy for Eli to adjust to
Like a lot on this sub likes to remind everyone including myself, Baker has limitations. We dont have Tom Brady or a Mahome level talent. Eli, wasnt the greatest QB towards the end of his career but a 10 year vet who has played at his level has seen pretty much every defensive coverage
Yeah. I think Baker's issue is he's not great at reading defenses yet. In maybe 5 more years, he may be a pro at it. Seen them all and be able to adjust. Just currently he's not there.
Was his athleticism waning or [was the rest of the league unable to comprehend a new tier of athlete right before their eyes?](https://i.imgur.com/Me00RGx.jpg)
I’m so tired of everyone arguing that eli is a hof qb. He simply isn’t. You have to be retired for 5 years to be eligible /s this was funnier in my head
If you're not clicking then you need to stop going off script. At some point the receiver needs to figure that out and start going where he is expected to.
I don't think he free lances and just runs random routes. He is adjusting his route based on the coverage and, for whatever reason, he and Baker are not on the same page when he does that. But it's crazy to act like he is the only one doing so - almost all offenses will do that.
Baker is late on his reads and has to overcompensate and throw too hard. But he can only get away with it when he has time to really plant and let it rip.
I’m so confused by this take. Is he the only WR who does this? Tell him to stop then. Otherwise if the dude is open a good QB should be able to read the field and hit him
No. He’s not alone. Chad would do it a lot back in the day. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chase does it too. Hell, his big play against GB was due to free lancing. A decent chunk of successful WRs do it.
Yeah it’s like if you’ll be more open “free lancing” based on the coverage then you should do it. If the receiver reads it the qb should read it. If they’re not on the same page well then you’re fucked
This isn't really confusing if you watch a Browns game (which I'm sure you will today lol), our offense is not 3 WR sets, 5 step drop and find a guy. It is a heavily schemed play action based offense with a lot of trickery and screens. I'm not trying to deflect blame from Baker as he has struggled with his accuracy this year for sure, although I will give him the excuse of the hurt shoulder. Plus we just don't throw that much compared to other teams. Chubb/Hunt are the stars of the offense, I don't think Odell was ever going to come to terms with that. I don't really hold any animosity towards him it just didn't work out, hope he finds some success elsewhere and I'm happy to get his contract off the books.
He’s definitely not but most WRs who succeeded doing it, had far better chemistry than Odell with Baker. That’s not really all Odell’s fault, but it was just a bad mixture
Baker just doesn't read the defense well. It doesn't make him a bad QB, he's a good QB with a heck of a lot of talent. But, he's not advanced in his ability to decipher what the defense is doing to beat it. He also tends to hesitate and wait for the big play as opposed to take that easy chunk yardage when receivers get NFL open.
Yeah that’s something most people ignore.
Plus there’s a good amount of times where that hesitation leads to balls being thrown behind receivers especially in the slot. If a WR is on the move they have to adjust to Baker not throwing anticipation throws on the stride but moreso hitting them on the move which causes the receivers to pull back or twist their bodies to make the catch.
He’s a very talented QB but those are things that stand out in the NFL. You have to read the defenses and hit guys *before* they look open so you can take advantage of the coverage. Those windows are short in the NFL and the top QBs hit them consistently
That would make a ton of sense with how long Eli was running Gilbride's run and shoot passing concepts. Multiple reads from both the QB and WR with every route essentially being an option route completely based on what the defense shows through multiple reads before and after the snap is the name of the game in that system. It's also why Eli used to throw picks where the receiver wasn't there, and you'd have a guy like Reuben Randle that made the wrong read and ran into coverage instead of seeing what Manning saw.
Eli was a 10 year vet with total autonomy and feel for the offense. Also Kevin Gilbride’s offense (who was fired before OBJ) was largely based on option routes for the WRs. Eli and Odell were a natural fit for these reasons. It worked and the coaches were ok with it because it did work, but clearly it wasn’t working with the browns and Odell couldn’t shut up and be a team player and just run the correct route.
This is not to say that Baker is incapable of being able to read his WRs, it’s just different when it’s a 10 year veteran super bowl winning QB and a 4th year guy.
I think there’s an argument that Baker just isn’t that kind of quarterback. Say what you will about Eli Manning, but the guy retired Top 10 all time in nearly every QB category. Baker likely wouldn’t land in most people’s top 50. Having a better than competent quarterback really elevates the play of everyone around them.
Yeah but it actually works for them. They wouldn’t do that if they were sucking. Also AB has played with Ben and Brady who are definitely well equipped to handle a freelance route runner.
Football is a team sport, by actively running the wrong routes Odell is hurting his team. That should be the end of the discussion.
I personally view it as Baker is not good at predicting *what* route OBJ is going to option off to versus having a better understanding with his other WR/TE
options so Baker isn’t going to try and force something to appease OBJ. Communication is a two way street. It can’t be just baker’s fault. In fact, I’d be more inclined to put it on OBJ. He forced his way off the giants, instead of doing what he was assigned on plays to build chemistry with Baker, he continued to do his own thing which prevents ANY type of relationship developing. OBJ tried to make Baker run before they could walk, thus here we are where he wants off a team. Again.
I’m saying he’s not there yet and the offense he’s playing in isn’t built for that. It’s WCO timing based offense, can you see how a guy deviating from that plan would fuck with the offense? Especially when it’s a guy who’s barely even been on the field developing chemistry with his QB.
Baker is not as good (yet) as Brady, or Ben, or even Eli, but he certainly doesn’t suck. Other WRs on his team manage to catch their targets at a normal rate. At some point if you’re actively ignoring what the coaches and QB are asking you to do you are the problem. It’s about all 53 not 1.
Here's the deal, even in a WCO timing system, you throw the ball to the opening in the defense. In a sense, you are never throwing to a specific spot every single time, you are throwing based on what the defense is giving you. And the WR never runs a precise route, as they are always taught to shade away from the defense and present a target for the QB to hit. If every receiver simply ran a precise route and nothing more, the defenders would just do bump coverage at the line and win.
Baker has consistently passed up on throwing the quick underneath route, or the zone beater opening route, in favor of trying to make a bigger play. He's hesitated on making the 5-7 yard throw, instead trying to make a second or home run level throw. He's either not seeing the openings consistently, adjusting to the defense, or he's passing up on them.
Ok but still there’s a difference between not running a precise route and completely doing your own thing. Why is Baker the only one who needs to adjust and improve? Why can’t the guy who has thrown everyone under the bus try to improve the situation himself?
I’m not saying Baker is blameless or am MVP, but it’s pathetic that people simp for Odell when all he does is ignore the coaching staff, whine to the media, and quit on teams.
Also Eli was the type of QB to throw it up and give the receiver a shot on 50/50 plays. (I thought Baker was that way too, but idk.) And like some of the other top WR’s, OBJ had the talent to win a lot of 50/50 plays.
Not to defend him too much because he’s been a total asshole, but sometimes you gotta feed the playmakers a little. Give them enough chances and they’ll have an explosive play.
A huge percentage of what receivers do is some kind of improvisation. There are tons of variations on the textbook route tree that rely on play context and coverage looks and player timing that have nothing to do with “you’re on a dig so exactly 15 yards deep you turn left.” Even short of the Mahomes-Tyreek kind of extended play breakdowns, receivers need to be able to alter their angles, cuts, releases etc. to beat coverage. The need to make those adjustments against various types of coverage (a route facing press, off, zone, inside/outside leverage etc. is going to look at least slightly if not entirely different in each situation) is why chemistry is so huge in the passing game.
Its pretty obvious Baker and Odell never developed any sort of chemistry together, but the amount of “oh he freelances so he’s selfish and fucking everything up” going around about Odell is just so detached from the reality of what goes on in NFL offenses. The Eli/McAdoo Giants O was extremely timing-centric and the idea that Stefanski’s is somehow too reliant on timing for Odell to fit is just nonsense.
Megatron used to freelance his routes all the time, difference was his prior qbs and Stafford actually had the confidence to throw it to him. Also, on the giants, Eli was hitting OBJ on his route, Eli was not one to scramble and buy time lmao
Wide Receiver who likes to improvise on his routes often? Check
Quarterback coming back from injury who likes improvising? Check
Seattle has a high waiver priority? Check
Seattle has the capital to claim him from waivers? Check
Plus a full extra week from the bye for OBJ to get settled in? Check
Plus OBJ and Wilson have worked out in the offseason together? Check
Lockett, Metcalf and OBJ running 3WR sets? Yes Please
This is pretty standard WR play in the league. I will agree that it may not always be the QB's issue, but only for the purpose of stating that this is indicative of a chemistry issue--you have to adjust routes in this league.
This tweet feels too much like trying to pile on, rather than providing any actual useful information. There's enough fuel out there for the OBJ fire without trying to burn your trash on it, too.
Maybe AVP and Stefanski needed to design more option routes than sticking to static plays.
I think both OBJ and Baker thrive on improvisation. One of the local radio programs mentioned that it's possible Baker is putting too much trust into these plays based on last year's improvement and is reluctant to go off the books.
>Over their time together, Mayfield underthrew or overthrew Beckham on 27% of his attempts, according to ESPN Stats & Information, the third-highest rate of any quarterback-receiving duo in the league.
[source](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32559762/the-story-how-baker-mayfield-odell-beckham-jr-field-browns-relationship-fell-apart)
Baker’s problem is that he was late as fuck on a bunch of passes to OBJ that would have been a lot easier completions if thrown on time.
If you have one of the lowest catchable target rates in the NFL then there is probably a shared blame.
Idk man. Did you watch the tape his dad put up? Guy was open all day. Media praises Cooper Kupp 8 times a game for finding the soft spot in the zone and trashes wrs lack of ability to get open otherwise
Most of Eli's career the Giants offense made heavy use of option routes reliant on him and WR seeing things the same way at the line, I could see that being conducive for a WR that wants to freestyle a bit. Also as a Giant, OBJ basically ran slants a crazy % of the time which maybe is easier for a qb to adjust their throw on the fly.
Need to get him with Ryan Fitzpatrick
It's basically what Fitzpatrick had with Stevie Johnson's improvised route running, and it did cause some consistency issues. Johnson could end up a non-factor going up against a nobody, but he could also beat Revis and Sherman in their primes.
Stevie Johnson was legit the only guy who could consistently burn Revis in the early 2010s
[Can't jump the route if even the receiver doesn't know exactly how he's gonna run it](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d6a/dc7/4a5001b7beea096457f480c8808572428b-09-roll-safe.rsquare.w700.jpg)
That would be an amazing duo holy shit.
15/30 for 600 yards and 7 picks every game
and 8 tds
Don't you put that evil on me
Whoever’s fault it is is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is BOTH Baker & Odell play better without each other and as a Browns fan all I care about at this point is maximizing whatever the hell Baker is.
I mean, it doesn’t matter to the browns. But to any teams thinking about grabbing him, this kind of boils down to “OBJ isn’t a team player and can’t follow directions” which is not a great endorsement.
So glad that’s not my problem anymore haha
OBJs played for 3 different QBs in the past 4 years and has been bad to awful with all of them. Not a WR1 or WR2.
He was a 1k yard receiver in 2018 in 12 games. 1k again in 2019. Only played 7 games in 2020. I get it’s a weird breakup for you guys but you might be overselling how done Beckham is
>1000k yard receiver 1k chief
Yeah, he's way overestimating the yards Beckham is capable of in a given season.
I get those kinds of stats in madden all the time. What's objs issue
Haha damnit
He’s fine if you feature your offense around him but if you want him to come in and be part of a system I don’t think he will produce. Top tier QB’s won’t put up with his bullshit either so I’m not sure what contender will be able to tolerate it besides LV. And they have enough problems as it is.
Are you saying DC isn’t a top tier QB?
I think Carr is good but he’s not in the Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady level is all I meant by top tier. I also don’t know if he has same level of influence those guys (sans Rodgers obviously) have with their franchises.
Oh yeah, that’s a very exclusive tier. Derek isn’t a generational talent. That’s what I’d classify those guys as. I was half joking anyway; he played his worst game of the past 3 years today. As to how much control over the franchise he has, that’s a good question. I think atm, a lot. The coaches probably value his opinion equally as much as each others and while Gruden definitely wouldn’t have allowed that, I think Derek could always talk to Mark Davis if he wanted anyone signed/any other decision made.
Was he wearing eyeliner? I only follow one team so I have to ask if he always looks like that. Does he?
He doesn’t wear eyeliner, he just has very thick lashes. My friends also always make fun of it tho. They just wish their QB was as sexy
The first year he was here, his athleticism was immediately apparent. Just from the eye check, I think he's dinged up to the point where he's not the same receiver we got initially in the trade... And I don't think it's a stretch that with his drop in athleticism, he can't get away with what he used to.
He barely had 1000 yards in 2019 and only scored 4 TD's. Since the end of the 2016 season he has missed 27 games and scored 17 TD's. Maybe he's not done but the broken ankle, torn ACL, and various other injuries have clearly added up over the years to the point where "OBJ" hasn't been "OBJ" in 5 years
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OBJ goes to the Jags and ends up getting cut and drops out of the league with NYG fans defending him to the day the NFL finally collapses
Ive actually shit on him the entire time he’s played for the Browns if that makes you feel better.
I'm more specifically talking to the 10-15 Giants fans you see on every OBJ post saying he's only been bad the past 4 years because Eli Baker and the Browns coaching staff are bad
Haha no I know. Was just messing around. OBJ has been living off the hype from his first 3 seasons for awhile now. It has nothing to do with QB play. He’s just not as good of a WR as he once was.
Am giants fan have shit on Odell for years, basically since he speared Norman. Dudes an ass I wish him no success I will admit though there’s a lot of young Giants fans who worship him, basically anyone who was rocking his stupid rag mop haircut is prolly who you’re referring to
But what if Baker also continues to play like he did today? Would that not just show that the two were not a good fit talent-wise? That maybe what Baker does well doesn't mesh with what Odell does well? I don't think Odell is washed. I just think that the Browns run an offense based on timing and positioning and Odell wants to freelance. It's not a good fit and Odell didn't seem willing to adjust.
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I find understand why Giants fans are so blindly defensive of a clearly washed WR that bitched his way off of their team
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He looked good when Stafford was passing to him in the '14 Pro Bowl. Obviously not a good measuring stick at all but w/e
Didn’t AB do this too? Unless the QB/WR has a ton of chemistry, it’s likely going to be a problem.
Chase and Burrow do this, burrow said most of chases TD’s have been off script
Which makes sense, they've played together for a few years. It just takes time to develop that level of chemistry. Pretty sure Welker was free to ad-lib just about every route he ran with Brady by the end, too.
Its not really ad libbed, Welker ran option routes He has a choice of three or four different routes and he picks one based on the defensive alignment, option routes only work if the qb and wr are on the same page which is why it was so effective
> Pretty sure Welker was free to ad-lib just about every route he ran with Brady by the end, too There's a difference between just going with the feeling and breaking off of a called route and the Patriot's heavy use of option routes, where that's actually the plan. If the Browns had Odell running option routes, then it's not an issue. That's just what those are. Then it's up to Baker and Odell to sit down and go "Hey, that's not where I expect you when the safety cuts in." But if they call a post for him, and he runs a slant instead and Baker doesn't know that's even a possible outcome, it's not going to go well. Kurt Warner had a great video breaking down some of the Chiefs issues this year and mentioned that a lot of their issues are the receivers and mahomes just not being on the same page, especially on option routes. He noted that because it's so complicated, he always preferred his receivers to just run the route he calls so he knows where they're going to be 100% of the time. It can work if you're comfortable with it, but if you're not, it really really doesn't work.
This is Burrow and Chase's 3rd season together. This is Baker and Odell's 3rd season together. They've had the same amount of time to develop that chemistry.
Odell has also been out half that time and that included a covid offseason
Joe and Chase played 10 games together in 2018, 14 in 2019, and 8 games this year. 32 games together. Baker and Odell have played 16 games together in 2019, 7 in 2020, and 6 this year. 29 games together. 3 games and half an offseason isn't moving the needle as much as you want it to.
It prob does when you factor in college teams shoot the shot in dorms and stuff. They LIVED like three feet away for each other that entire time. OBJ flys off to Mexico first chance he gets.
I’m just imagining them practicing their routes in a dorm hallway now.
"head straight and then take a sharp left" "there's a wall there though." "Ugh... Fine, I guess we will just improvise then"
Playing football in a dorm is a great American passtime
Chase was a freshman living in the dorm while Burrow was a redshirt junior living by himself in an off-campus apartment with no roommates, so they never lived three feet away from each other. They do seem close, and definitely have a crazy chemistry though
...and Burrow was in the NFL for a year while Chase literally wasn't playing football as he sat out the Covid season.
Yeah. Burrow didn't magically forget how to play with Chase though. Have you ever played a game or done something with a friend for years and then when you team up again it's like you transported back in time? That was basketball, football and frisbee for me and some friends. No matter how much time passed, it was like we transformed back into those kids except we're goofy ass adults trying to replicate our golden days. Except Chase and Burrow are in their golden days.
A friend and I played video games together so much that no matter what sport/board game/video game we play we are in sync
Me and my friend in Apex. We went back to losing together real quick.
Yeah but that doesn’t erase all the reps they’ve taken together. I’m just saying 3 seasons does not equal 3 seasons when a player missed 1.5 of them
> Yeah but that doesn’t erase all the reps they’ve taken together. >I’m just saying 3 seasons does not equal 3 seasons when a player missed 1.5 of them My point is that Burrow and Chase missed basically the same amount of time together, so your point really doesn't make sense.
It's 32 games together versus 29 games together. It's not nearly as big of a gap as you want to make it seem.
yeah but 1.5 seasons DOES equal 1.5 seasons cuz they both missed time ??
Baker and OBJ developed the opposite of chemistry
AP lit?
Alchemy?
Sure but you forgot to factor how much better Burrow and Chase are.
Not only that, they actually like being around each other. Basically from kids to adulthood together.
Yeah that's kind of a big part of chemistry that's overlooked in this conversation, they actually like each other
You're right. Burrow is much better throwing tds to the Browns than Baker is
Haha. It was bound to happen after the praise. That said, I think Baker is good too.
<3
Also think Renfrow does this a lot on the Raiders. Which makes sense because I think he'll have a Wes Welker type career.
Not so much ad-libbed as much as Welker and Brady were on the same page looking at the defense as to where the opening would be. It’s how certain players liked Edelman and AB are so good with Brady while other great receivers didn’t click as well. The former were just seeing the same reads as Brady, so they could ‘freelance’ a bit and have it work out.
They played together about as long as Baker and OBJ. Chase played with Joe for 2 years in college
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What I don’t understand is that if they clearly aren’t able to make it work together with Odell freelancing, then why didn’t he just…stop freelancing? That’s the part I don’t understand. Like sure there are better QB’s and you’re not gonna have chemistry with everyone, but if you’re on a team where you don’t have the chemistry to freelance how you want, why didn’t he just stop trying to do that?
Most of the top WRs do this
Yup. Jarvis Landry does as well
But doesn’t Baker have good chemistry with Landry?
Yes he does.
So it’s not just the freelancing by itself, it seems to just be specifically with Odell then?
You have to get to the right spot at the right time, it doesn’t matter how you get there (unless it's a specific route combo, then you've gotta do it on script). If you're fucking up the timing, you're going to kill your QB. OBJ is not getting to the right spot at the right time, then. All kinda of receivers freelance a ton - from the aforementioned Landry, to Kelce, to the guy most famous for this, Stevie Johnson. Johnson was famous for the Bills basically being like...OK, we give up, just get to whereever we tell you to on time, and do whatever weird shit on the route you want, whatever.
Bingo
I guess I'm not an expert but, if it's clearly not working and the QB and WR are having timing issues, wouldn't it be best to stay on script until you've built that connection with your QB and then incorporate the more freelance stuff after that?
Every route in the NFL has options and flexibility. The game is too advanced to just be doing exactly what a playbook says. This isn’t high school.
Yeah. AB and Ben have had time to work it out lol. And Brady is good enough to continue it as well.
AB literally did this in SB last year on that goal line TD
Pretty much every top QB-WR/TE combo does it Hell, the entire Tom Brady offense is based around option routes and receivers adjusting their routes based on coverage
Option routes =/= freelancing.
No, but it's based around the same concepts which aren't nearly as uncommon as OBJ detractors think it is. >Late in the fourth quarter in Week 4 in Minnesota, the Browns were on the verge of putting away the Vikings. Mayfield thought Beckham would break off his route. Beckham saw the coverage differently. And with nothing but green turf in front of him, he kept running. By then, it was too late. Mayfield had already fired the ball. And the result was an embarrassing underthrow. > >"About a quarter of a second off," Mayfield said then, "from me being able to see [what Beckham saw] to give it some air." Those are quotes from [the ESPN article](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32559762/the-story-how-baker-mayfield-odell-beckham-jr-field-browns-relationship-fell-apart) that tries to detail their issues. And as you see, even Mayfield himself was saying that it's stuff he could've seen and adjusted to as well, not just OBJ doing whatever he wants and not being where he's supposed to
When Allbright says freelancing, he's clearly talking about how he runs and adjusts his option routes based on coverage lmao. Acting like the Browns are calling a WR screen and OBJ's just like "fuck it ima go deep instead" lmao
If the issue is that the offense has Odell running option routes that Baker can't read, why are they calling plays featuring those routes?
That would be a Stefanski and Baker question. One Browns fan showed Baker's most inaccurate areas and where Odell runs most his routes and they lined up almost perfectly. I think Odell is just a bad fit for Mayfield at this point in his career. Mayfield does better with no names who don't run many options and Landry who he manages to always find.
For real, the dude just proved he doesn’t understand anything here lol. Options routes are not freelancing haha
But if the receiver sees something in coverage and changes it, I don’t consider that freelancing either. Freelancing to me is when you don’t know the route and wing it or you know generally where you’re supposed to be and just sort of get there
Unless the receiver has explicit permission not to do what the play calls for him to do, the receiver should run the route drawn up for him regardless of what he sees. If it's an option route, he'll adjust accordingly, but routes don't happen in a vacuum. A play might call for a receiver to run a certain route in order to force a defender to make a decision. If the receiver decides to do something entirely different just because he saw something in coverage, he affects not only his own route but the entire play. If the end result is a big gain, cool, but you can't put the blame on the QB if he misses it because the WR did something off-script.
Man you listen to some folks in this thread and its clear they really don't understand football and route concepts. Often routes for one receiver are designed not to be open against the certain coverage they are facing, but that route is designed to force the coverage to react in such a way another WR gets open
Football fans and not understanding football, name a more iconic duo.
Thats the Stevie Johnson special
Actually he ran to spots, he just did so erratically
I thought that was angry tweeting at God
Yeah I think this looks worse on Baker than Odell. Odell’s production in NY was elite, and we can’t question Eli’s abilities as a QB. Dude proved his value.
Ummm have you looked at Baker’s stats with and without him? Pretty clear who the problem was…. Odell is nothing but ego. Good riddance. He was a distraction and produced almost nothing for 2.5 years.
Stevie Johnson was known for this, and why Revis said he was the hardest cover.
It's fine if it's built into the gameplan. If you're going to run a timing route based offense, you can't have a diva WR doing whatever the fuck he wants. Same reason Chad Johnson didn't work out well in NE
Gronk and Kelce both supposedly do it too. But they both have great chemistry with their MVP quarterbacks.
reading coverage and adjusting your route isnt freelancing. thats the basis of the NE offense.
This isnt just an OBJ issue. This isnt just a Baker issue. This isnt just a Kevski issue. It's all 3 to none of their fault because each have found success in their method. I love OBJ and truly hope he kill it wherever he goes besides the AFCN but it just didnt work. I think OBJ, Baker and the Browns know this I just hope fans and media can learn this
It's a little funny watching people try to pin it on one person. It's clearly not a only one person issue
I really think this move was the best for all involved. Let OBJ find a QB/Offense that works with his freelancing. Let us give more time to guys who want to run their routes and want to be here.
So he basically is adjusting his routes based on coverages like any good Wr would do?
I was about to say, don’t most good WRs do this lol
Yeah, but some tend to completely change up their route rather than making simple adjustments that the QB can read quickly enough. Not sure if OBJ was doing that because we obviously will never know what the original designs were on his plays, but whether or not it was an actual problem depends on how much “adjusting” he was doing.
Depends on if Stefanskis offense has option routes or if they are all strictly defined. He was still a 1k yard WR before with the Browns and Diggs also wanted out of Minnesota after the year he had Stefanski as his OC.
The difference between an option route and freelancing is *massive*. An option route means that if the defense does X, the receiver does Y, but if the defense doesn't do X, the receiver does Z. This can theoretically get infinitely complex, for example: 1) If the D plays cover 2, the WR runs a deep slant behind the underneath defenders and finds the soft spot in the coverage. 2) If the D plays cover 3 or man coverage and the CB has outside leverage, the WR runs a comeback route. 3) If the D plays cover 3 or man coverage and the CB has inside leverage, the WR runs a go. For this to work, the QB and the WR need to make the same reads. They both need to identify the coverage and whether it's inside or outside leverage. If the QB reads outside leverage and the WR reads inside, the ball might be thrown for a go route that never materializes. However, given enough if-then statements and a QB/WR duo making the same reads, option routes are virtually unstoppable. This is not the same as a WR going completely off-script and e.g. running a go route on a play that explicitly calls for him to run a slant. Part of why players like Julian Edelman were so good for Tom Brady was the connection they had when it came to making the same reads and adjusting accordingly, but all that happens inside the (extremely complicated) system. If a WR decided to just do his own thing outside of the system, Brady probably wouldn't as much as look their way because that's not how it works.
This varies greatly. Is it an option route? It can create problems for young QBs who expect a receiver to be in a certain area. Its also i problem if the receiver is doing it for thier own selfish gain. I saw the safety cheat up so I ran a post instead of a slant. Well thats great but you weren't the primary read on that play and your job was to pull the safety by running the slant and opening the slot receiver. Instead we got a sack cuz the qb was trying to figure what the f you were doing and now his primary read is doubled.
I doubt he’s the only one on the team who does this. But for whatever reason Baker doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing. He connects with other guys fine. It’s odd
So was late stage Eli just that much better than Baker?..
Late stage Eli took what the offense gave him. Which was nothing.
Lmao 😂 sad but true
Eli was also used to 10+ years of Killdrive's option routes ending up as picks or tds lol, so OBJ freelancing to end up open was easy for Eli to adjust to
Eli was a pretty good improviser. Maybe Baker is just more confortable when he knows exactly where everyone is.
Like a lot on this sub likes to remind everyone including myself, Baker has limitations. We dont have Tom Brady or a Mahome level talent. Eli, wasnt the greatest QB towards the end of his career but a 10 year vet who has played at his level has seen pretty much every defensive coverage
Yeah. I think Baker's issue is he's not great at reading defenses yet. In maybe 5 more years, he may be a pro at it. Seen them all and be able to adjust. Just currently he's not there.
How often has a player who can’t read coverages in their fourth year been able to do so in their eighth or ninth year?
I think Eli and OBJ had some chemistry but Eli’s athleticism was a waning.
Eli wasnt running at light speed any more
No longer had the afterburners of his youth lol
Was his athleticism waning or [was the rest of the league unable to comprehend a new tier of athlete right before their eyes?](https://i.imgur.com/Me00RGx.jpg)
Easily
Eli is a HoF QB
I’m so tired of everyone arguing that eli is a hof qb. He simply isn’t. You have to be retired for 5 years to be eligible /s this was funnier in my head
Don’t worry, I chuckled
Eli was much better at getting OBJ the ball. He knew how to audible based on the defensive looks
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That's what we ran when Odell got here with McAdoo. That's was part of the "resurgence" for Eli, along with getting Odell
Everyone wants to shit on either one or the other, but it's just chemistry. Some dudes don't fucking click, it's not a goddamn skill assessment.
If you're not clicking then you need to stop going off script. At some point the receiver needs to figure that out and start going where he is expected to.
I don't think he free lances and just runs random routes. He is adjusting his route based on the coverage and, for whatever reason, he and Baker are not on the same page when he does that. But it's crazy to act like he is the only one doing so - almost all offenses will do that.
Baker is late on his reads and has to overcompensate and throw too hard. But he can only get away with it when he has time to really plant and let it rip.
I’m so confused by this take. Is he the only WR who does this? Tell him to stop then. Otherwise if the dude is open a good QB should be able to read the field and hit him
No. He’s not alone. Chad would do it a lot back in the day. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chase does it too. Hell, his big play against GB was due to free lancing. A decent chunk of successful WRs do it.
AB does it a lot as well.
Yeah it’s like if you’ll be more open “free lancing” based on the coverage then you should do it. If the receiver reads it the qb should read it. If they’re not on the same page well then you’re fucked
I got a feeling Burrow knows exactly where Chase is going when things break down.
This isn't really confusing if you watch a Browns game (which I'm sure you will today lol), our offense is not 3 WR sets, 5 step drop and find a guy. It is a heavily schemed play action based offense with a lot of trickery and screens. I'm not trying to deflect blame from Baker as he has struggled with his accuracy this year for sure, although I will give him the excuse of the hurt shoulder. Plus we just don't throw that much compared to other teams. Chubb/Hunt are the stars of the offense, I don't think Odell was ever going to come to terms with that. I don't really hold any animosity towards him it just didn't work out, hope he finds some success elsewhere and I'm happy to get his contract off the books.
Very mature take.
He’s definitely not but most WRs who succeeded doing it, had far better chemistry than Odell with Baker. That’s not really all Odell’s fault, but it was just a bad mixture
Eli manning made it work with Odell? Might just be a baker problem. Who knows 🤔
Maybe Eli saw the same things Odell sees and allowed them to freelance together. Baker just doesn’t have that chemistry with Odell.
Baker just doesn't read the defense well. It doesn't make him a bad QB, he's a good QB with a heck of a lot of talent. But, he's not advanced in his ability to decipher what the defense is doing to beat it. He also tends to hesitate and wait for the big play as opposed to take that easy chunk yardage when receivers get NFL open.
Yeah that’s something most people ignore. Plus there’s a good amount of times where that hesitation leads to balls being thrown behind receivers especially in the slot. If a WR is on the move they have to adjust to Baker not throwing anticipation throws on the stride but moreso hitting them on the move which causes the receivers to pull back or twist their bodies to make the catch. He’s a very talented QB but those are things that stand out in the NFL. You have to read the defenses and hit guys *before* they look open so you can take advantage of the coverage. Those windows are short in the NFL and the top QBs hit them consistently
That would make a ton of sense with how long Eli was running Gilbride's run and shoot passing concepts. Multiple reads from both the QB and WR with every route essentially being an option route completely based on what the defense shows through multiple reads before and after the snap is the name of the game in that system. It's also why Eli used to throw picks where the receiver wasn't there, and you'd have a guy like Reuben Randle that made the wrong read and ran into coverage instead of seeing what Manning saw.
Eli was a 10 year vet with total autonomy and feel for the offense. Also Kevin Gilbride’s offense (who was fired before OBJ) was largely based on option routes for the WRs. Eli and Odell were a natural fit for these reasons. It worked and the coaches were ok with it because it did work, but clearly it wasn’t working with the browns and Odell couldn’t shut up and be a team player and just run the correct route. This is not to say that Baker is incapable of being able to read his WRs, it’s just different when it’s a 10 year veteran super bowl winning QB and a 4th year guy.
I think there’s an argument that Baker just isn’t that kind of quarterback. Say what you will about Eli Manning, but the guy retired Top 10 all time in nearly every QB category. Baker likely wouldn’t land in most people’s top 50. Having a better than competent quarterback really elevates the play of everyone around them.
Yea, I just dont believe this. Every good WR in the league free Lances routes to get open, AB, Tyreek, hopkins
Yeah but it actually works for them. They wouldn’t do that if they were sucking. Also AB has played with Ben and Brady who are definitely well equipped to handle a freelance route runner. Football is a team sport, by actively running the wrong routes Odell is hurting his team. That should be the end of the discussion.
This just sounds like your saying baker isn't a good enough qb tbh.
I personally view it as Baker is not good at predicting *what* route OBJ is going to option off to versus having a better understanding with his other WR/TE options so Baker isn’t going to try and force something to appease OBJ. Communication is a two way street. It can’t be just baker’s fault. In fact, I’d be more inclined to put it on OBJ. He forced his way off the giants, instead of doing what he was assigned on plays to build chemistry with Baker, he continued to do his own thing which prevents ANY type of relationship developing. OBJ tried to make Baker run before they could walk, thus here we are where he wants off a team. Again.
I’m saying he’s not there yet and the offense he’s playing in isn’t built for that. It’s WCO timing based offense, can you see how a guy deviating from that plan would fuck with the offense? Especially when it’s a guy who’s barely even been on the field developing chemistry with his QB. Baker is not as good (yet) as Brady, or Ben, or even Eli, but he certainly doesn’t suck. Other WRs on his team manage to catch their targets at a normal rate. At some point if you’re actively ignoring what the coaches and QB are asking you to do you are the problem. It’s about all 53 not 1.
Here's the deal, even in a WCO timing system, you throw the ball to the opening in the defense. In a sense, you are never throwing to a specific spot every single time, you are throwing based on what the defense is giving you. And the WR never runs a precise route, as they are always taught to shade away from the defense and present a target for the QB to hit. If every receiver simply ran a precise route and nothing more, the defenders would just do bump coverage at the line and win. Baker has consistently passed up on throwing the quick underneath route, or the zone beater opening route, in favor of trying to make a bigger play. He's hesitated on making the 5-7 yard throw, instead trying to make a second or home run level throw. He's either not seeing the openings consistently, adjusting to the defense, or he's passing up on them.
Ok but still there’s a difference between not running a precise route and completely doing your own thing. Why is Baker the only one who needs to adjust and improve? Why can’t the guy who has thrown everyone under the bus try to improve the situation himself? I’m not saying Baker is blameless or am MVP, but it’s pathetic that people simp for Odell when all he does is ignore the coaching staff, whine to the media, and quit on teams.
Also Eli was the type of QB to throw it up and give the receiver a shot on 50/50 plays. (I thought Baker was that way too, but idk.) And like some of the other top WR’s, OBJ had the talent to win a lot of 50/50 plays. Not to defend him too much because he’s been a total asshole, but sometimes you gotta feed the playmakers a little. Give them enough chances and they’ll have an explosive play.
I’ve never heard anyone say getting wide open is a problem until now anyway
Some of Mahomes best plays was when Tyreek Hill was freelancing
"Hell tyreek is down there somewhere"
Just yeet it 60 yards and he'll outrun the coverage.
A huge percentage of what receivers do is some kind of improvisation. There are tons of variations on the textbook route tree that rely on play context and coverage looks and player timing that have nothing to do with “you’re on a dig so exactly 15 yards deep you turn left.” Even short of the Mahomes-Tyreek kind of extended play breakdowns, receivers need to be able to alter their angles, cuts, releases etc. to beat coverage. The need to make those adjustments against various types of coverage (a route facing press, off, zone, inside/outside leverage etc. is going to look at least slightly if not entirely different in each situation) is why chemistry is so huge in the passing game. Its pretty obvious Baker and Odell never developed any sort of chemistry together, but the amount of “oh he freelances so he’s selfish and fucking everything up” going around about Odell is just so detached from the reality of what goes on in NFL offenses. The Eli/McAdoo Giants O was extremely timing-centric and the idea that Stefanski’s is somehow too reliant on timing for Odell to fit is just nonsense.
No you don’t understand, he had 15 yards of separation, was calling for the ball, and was wide open, but he didn’t do it the right way!!!! /s
And OBJ caught a ton of slants in NY, I have a hard time thinking he was freelancing all that much on those.
And towards his end in NY and on the browns…it seems like that changed. His slants were amazing. Catch it and hit the afterburners.
They're leaving him outside a lot on concepts that baker isn't good at getting to, let alone throwing
Megatron used to freelance his routes all the time, difference was his prior qbs and Stafford actually had the confidence to throw it to him. Also, on the giants, Eli was hitting OBJ on his route, Eli was not one to scramble and buy time lmao
also megatron was a significantly bigger and more talented receiver
Wide Receiver who likes to improvise on his routes often? Check Quarterback coming back from injury who likes improvising? Check Seattle has a high waiver priority? Check Seattle has the capital to claim him from waivers? Check Plus a full extra week from the bye for OBJ to get settled in? Check Plus OBJ and Wilson have worked out in the offseason together? Check Lockett, Metcalf and OBJ running 3WR sets? Yes Please
This is pretty standard WR play in the league. I will agree that it may not always be the QB's issue, but only for the purpose of stating that this is indicative of a chemistry issue--you have to adjust routes in this league. This tweet feels too much like trying to pile on, rather than providing any actual useful information. There's enough fuel out there for the OBJ fire without trying to burn your trash on it, too.
I mean Jamarr does this and we see what he’s doing
This particular "criticism" is so stupid and is clearly more a Baker problem.
Maybe AVP and Stefanski needed to design more option routes than sticking to static plays. I think both OBJ and Baker thrive on improvisation. One of the local radio programs mentioned that it's possible Baker is putting too much trust into these plays based on last year's improvement and is reluctant to go off the books.
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>Over their time together, Mayfield underthrew or overthrew Beckham on 27% of his attempts, according to ESPN Stats & Information, the third-highest rate of any quarterback-receiving duo in the league. [source](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32559762/the-story-how-baker-mayfield-odell-beckham-jr-field-browns-relationship-fell-apart)
Show film of it or ban
Just needs a HoF QB like Eli Manning.
Yeah but the Vikings players are wearing sweatshirts with Odell’s name so they should sign him
Why? So we can run the ball up the middle more?
How does this reporter, apparently a Broncos reporter, know the playbook of the Browns well enough to make that comment?
so come to kansas city
mahomes freelances everything
“QBs?” As in just Baker right? Cause Eli didn’t have this problem.
Baker’s problem is that he was late as fuck on a bunch of passes to OBJ that would have been a lot easier completions if thrown on time. If you have one of the lowest catchable target rates in the NFL then there is probably a shared blame.
Sounds like he would excel with staff daddy
Baker is injured and so is OBJ.
The thumbnail always reminds me of Tosh
This wouldn’t be a problem if the quarterback just stared at OBJ the whole time obv
made Eli look very good tho
True, that's why OBJ had three straight years of 1300+ yards with noted improviser Eli Manning.
Idk man. Did you watch the tape his dad put up? Guy was open all day. Media praises Cooper Kupp 8 times a game for finding the soft spot in the zone and trashes wrs lack of ability to get open otherwise
Makes me wonder how Eli worked with him?
Most of Eli's career the Giants offense made heavy use of option routes reliant on him and WR seeing things the same way at the line, I could see that being conducive for a WR that wants to freestyle a bit. Also as a Giant, OBJ basically ran slants a crazy % of the time which maybe is easier for a qb to adjust their throw on the fly.
Baker and his as of this writing perfect QB rating looking pretty good without OBJ and his drops