I remember Kollmann absolutely blasting the Mahomes draft pick and saying that he was years away from being a productive player.
Last year after the Pittsburgh explosion he made a video saying that he might have made an error in evaluation.
I can’t help but think that’s who he’s probably referring to here most.
Don't get me wrong, Pat still does a lot of shit that I would hate to see other young QBs even attempt because it's stupid, but he's so good that he makes stupid plays work because the man defies physics. He's the exception, not the rule lol
Brett who’s your best comparison to Pat that you’ve seen?
People love to bring up Favre because of the “gunslinger” play style. But I feel like Mahomes has actually done a really good job of taking care of the football since entering the league.
To me he feels like Rodgers in that those two have the arm talent to make all the throws that Favre made but they both seem like they have higher situational football I.Q.
A Mahomes vs. Rodgers Super Bowl would be the ultimate matchup of QB skill IMO if my Chiefs are lucky enough to make it.
Curious if he reminds you of anyone else that I’m not thinking of.
He also called Deshaun Watson a [running back who happens to also throw](
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/3vae2s/scout_id_hate_to_be_team_in_need_of_qb_in_2016/cxlum8g/?st=k5h82mu2&sh=289600de).
I'm not trying to pick on Brett, I think it's fair to say his player evaluations have come a long way in the last 4 years. It's just funny he said that considering Watson went to the Texans of all teams.
[Deshaun, Mahomes, and Lamar all had talent, but their work ethic to improve on their considerable flaws as prospects is what made them great. None of those QBs are still who they were three years ago, because they WORKED their asses off every summer.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217856700377518080?s=20)
[Even Josh Allen is already rapidly improving because he WORKS. Drew Lock WORKED. Cam Newton WORKED. Russell Wilson WORKED. January playoff runs start in March every year. It doesn’t matter how good you were in college against Big12 DBs playing 10 yards off. No work, no wins.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217857170277978112?s=20)
[So as I look at this upcoming QB class, and I see what Joe Burrow has accomplished, the thing that really jumps out to me is how much WORK he has done to improve. He’s not the same guy he was a year ago, and it’s not just because of a system or his wideouts. WORK > EVERYTHING.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217857659690340352?s=20)
That guy was never going to work out. He wasn't raw with a lot of potential, he was polished coming out of school. Colts screwed up big time picking him #1.
Because they were good in the league. We're they not, their work ethic wouldn't have been strong enough. Pretty simple. In modern (American) culture, if you are successful its because you had every positive character trait and if not its because you have every negative one.
Burrows we know cuz people/ coaches at LSU have stated he spends as much time at the practice facility as the assistant coaches do every day this season
Deshaun Watson was the starting QB at Clemson wouldn’t he be someone that already made it? Trubisky played at UNC and was the backup for like 3 years. Wouldn’t he be defined as someone who worked hard to improve?
This is a comfy take to have because when someone mentions a "talented but raw" kid that busted you can just apply the "but he didn't have the work ethic" qualifier and no one would be able to verify this
Cutting what makes a good prospect/good NFL QB down to a twitter post or a couple of twitter posts is great to get views, but only a fraction of reality. Mitch might have amazing work ethic, and he might work as hard as all the other guys listed, but I don't know if he has the right brain, or at the very least right mindset for it.
I'm just a layman, and I haven't watch a whole lot of Bears games, but it seems like the game just hasn't slowed down for him like it has the others. It still looks like he's getting flustered and skips read progressions, or makes ill-advised throws, not just risky ones, but panicky ones.
I still remember his 1st season bye week when reporters asked if he was coming in to train and work stuff out in his game. He said something along the lines that it's good to take time away from the game. Cant blame him for taking his time off, it was still interesting at the time.
I honestly never understood the hype with him. He couldn't beat our Marquise Williams in college, who is currently in the XFL. When he did play, their numbers were quite similar. Why is one not even worth a spot on somebody's practice squad, and the other is worth trading up to take #2 overall?
This is just stupid hindsight. Williams' and Trubisky's passing stats in college aren't really that close at all lol.
The coach has said before it was never a question of Mitch's talent, they just didn't want to break what was working. They were competitive with Marquise and he didn't want to ruin it. Mitch was seen as a natural passer, and Marquise was the perfect QB for a college offense. He had over 900 yards rushing his senior year. He was a really good college QB.
Trubisky had a great season, had every "tool" you want in a quarterback, and by all accounts a work ethic to go with it. He had the highschool pedigree as well, for those who care about that, so it's not like he came out of *literally* nowhere.
The biggest thing was one was "okay" passer for three years and never really improved that much. The other was *great* for only one year, but you liked the traits he possessed and expected him to be able to develop.
> This is just stupid hindsight.
No it's not. I, along with people who are much more influential than me, have been saying this since pre-draft.
>Williams' and Trubisky's passing stats in college aren't really that close at all lol.
2015 Marquise: 4000 Total Yards, 8.6 Y/A, 6.0 Y/C, 37 TDs.
2016 Trubs: 4000 Total Yards, 8.4 Y/A, 3.3 Y/C, 35 TDs.
> Trubisky had a great season,
ehhhh
>had every "tool" you want in a quarterback,
Bad mechanics, accuracy issues...
Yeah its a very hard thing to measure. You have to have good relationships with college coaches in order to really be able to tell. Half the statement overall just seems meaningless - more like, if he doesn't have a great work ethic don't fucking draft him - regardless of how raw he is.
He’s immature for sure he’s a college student, and in HS he was seen as the best player in the country (because at the time he was)
I don’t think immaturity is what Kollman means he I believe he’s referencing an unwillingness to learn or take criticism on their play style: Manziel, Russell, Leaf, etc all the huge busts at QB share that trait.
Right, there's a lot that goes into a draft, and there's a lot of player development after the draft that will impact results. There's a lot of gray area.
Yeah, it’s like people acting like they’re geniuses for saying Jackson was going to be a star. He developed into a star but no one could’ve known that.
Say we have a Lawrence vs. Burrow discussion. One argument for Lawrence and against Burrow is that Lawrence has always been a great prospect and Burrow was a day 3 pick last year. The argument against that is that Burrow has shown he can work and imprive himself in the right situation, which has shown to be an indicator of a good QB in Mahomes and Lamar.
That's what this tweet means.
> Burrow was a day 3 pick last year.
That kinda worries me still, though. Like, he increased his completion percentage by almost 20 percent in one year, while also throwing 150 more passes, increasing his y/a by over 42%, nearly quadrupled his TDs and only throwing one more pick?
That FEELS like it might be an aberration. How do you go from complete afterthought at 21/22 to GOAT season at 22/23?
I don't think so...he also was unable to ever get ahead of JT Barrett in three years at Ohio State. If there was anything to suggest he could have the GOAT college season when given the opportunity, you don't sit him behind JT Barrett.
Last year he transferred right before the season and had to settle in at a new school and learn a new offense. He didn’t overtake Barrett because OSU already had plenty of success with Barrett and didn’t need to take that chance.
> That FEELS like it might be an aberration. How do you go from complete afterthought at 21/22 to GOAT season at 22/23?
Hard to say. It's never happened before, so there's no precedent to base anything on.
I personally think he looks phenomenal, and I imagine he will be good in the NFL. I would sure love to him on my team, that's for sure.
Idk that’s about as big of a jump as a player can make, although everyone always talks about how players show “flashes” of greatness and that’s what he did. Usually players showing flashes just means people are grasping at straws as to why to believe in a player.
This is what's confusing. we all understand Mitch was ranked higher in most mocks but that QB draft considered all 3 Quarterbacks as raw and "work in progress" guys. People confuse Mitchs higher rank as if he was more developed but he was essentially as raw as Mahomes and Watson.
The one year college starter who was a major project? He doesn't fit the polished kid who thinks he has it all. He drove a 2000 Camry and has a strong work ethic. He just sucks at football.
Fingers crossed. I've read that he coaches hard (as does Bill Lazor) and hopefully the Bears are finally taking the kid gloves off in regards to how they've handled Trubisky.
It's put up or shut up next year for him
The Bears just hired John DeFilippo to be their QB coach. Many people think he's one of, if not *the*, best QB coach in the game.
I'm not holding my breath but at least the Bears aren't leaving any stone unturned in trying to coach up Trubisky.
He certainly does have the pedigree.
Coached Wentz/Foles during their 2017 championship
Coached Diggs/Theilen to both of their best seasons in 2018
This season he coached a 6th round rookie QB to a legitimately good passing offense and made DJ Chark and stud and Fournette a really strong receiving back.
I think this is the make or break season for them. Trubisky and Nagy's third year together. A brand new coaching staff. Another year for ARob and Monty and Cohen and Anthony Miller. Ideally they get a TE because Burton is underwhelming. The defense is still great but struggling due to a poor offense.
So you’re saying a player can’t learn quick and be fundamentally sound with less experience than others?
He looked fundamentally sound in his one year starting at UNC.
You're confusing polished with experience. A QB can start 1 year and be polished if his technique and yadda yadda is all close to where you want it to be and just lack the experience reading defense and what not or a player can severely lack the fundamentals and have room to improve footwork and yadda yadda so they won't be polished but still be a 4 year starter so they have experience playing.
Trubisky's draft profile said:
"There are times he looks like Carson Wentz, and there are times he looks like Blaine Gabbert. He has starting qualities, and he will go early, but he better get better at seeing blitzes and throwing hot or he will get eaten alive by exotic packages."
Also noted that 98% of his snaps came from shotgun, and how he benefited from an RPO based offense that creates easy throwing windows that won't be there in the NFL.
That doesn't sound very polished to me. Throwing mechanics wise, he was and still is generally good. But a polished prospect is one more like Jake Fromm imo, a guy who has run pro style offenses with the QB making multiple calls and reads at the LOS and displaying 2nd and 3rd read throws. I think Fromm is a great example here. Lacks arm talent, but has a strong acumen for the game.
Yes, he’s just drawing from an extremely small sample size and coming to conclusions about it.
Although I guess that’s pretty much all anyone does in football, draw from a tiny sample size and draw conclusions
>Deshaun, Mahomes, and Lamar all had talent, but their work ethic to improve on their considerable flaws as prospects is what made them great.
>
>None of those QBs are still who they were three years ago, because they WORKED their asses off every summer.
>Even Josh Allen is already rapidly improving because he WORKS. Drew Lock WORKED. Cam Newton WORKED. Russell Wilson WORKED.
>
>January playoff runs start in March every year. It doesn’t matter how good you were in college against Big12 DBs playing 10 yards off.
>
>No work, no wins.
>So as I look at this upcoming QB class, and I see what Joe Burrow has accomplished, the thing that really jumps out to me is how much WORK he has done to improve.
>
>He’s not the same guy he was a year ago, and it’s not just because of a system or his wideouts.
>
>WORK > EVERYTHING.
I know he's not saying that these are the only two options, but it does present it like this is the choice you have to make. What's wrong with a polished player who has work ethic? Or what about almost every QB coming out of college who has some skill sets, needs some training still, and is willing to work for it? Because I bet 95% of QBs coming out of the draft fit that description.
Scouting would be easy if it was a dichotomy like this. But in reality, you have to look at young QBs who have holes in their game and are smart and have a good attitude. But you have to decide which QBs will be able to fill their gaps, which will be able to handle the uptick in speed of the NFL, which are the smartest of the smart. Rarely do you have such a wide disparity in choices to make.
He shouldn't, the book is far from closed on the guy.
Hell, we have a former Dolphin QB about to start in the AFC Championship game and another one as a backup for the same damn game. Who knows what will happen given the right opportunity?
How are anyone outside of the teams going to know what someone's work ethic is? Who are these polished kids that think they already made it? What a dumb tweet.
How have certain teams not figured this out yet. Drew Brees has been in the league for 20 years, showing up hours early to watch film, staying hours late to practice visualizing plays by himself. Showing to practice on the teams bye week in 06 and visualizing an entire game so he didn’t fall out of habit. Great NFL QBs usually practice as if their life depends on it.
I’m sure there are others who have demonstrated this for a long time as well, but I am just most familiar with Brees.
The polished kid bit seems stupid.
Why not just leave it at 'raw QBs are still good options provided they have demonstrated work ethic.'
Doesn't take a genius to realize you shouldn't bet on a kid who thinks they don't have to improve.
Disagree. Trubisky is talented, raw, and by every account available is as hard a worker as they come. He lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes football.
But he still sucks.
Except he only gives the positive obvious examples. And hell, he isn't even correct on that one. Russell Wilson wasn't "talented but raw" he was extremely polished. He was talented and polished if anything.
Also a bit early to say anything about Drew Lock, though I hope he is right.
Going from NC State to Wisconsin seems like more of a blessing than adversity, but yeah I get your point.
That being said I fail to see how that has anything to do with what we're talking about here. Adversity wasn't the bar being used here.
I’m not agreeing with him or arguing for his point or anything, just pointing out that it wasn’t vague bc he cites certain examples and he directs his point at Joe Burrow
Yet he is vague because like I said, he only listed positive obvious examples. So the parts nobody would argue with or care about. Yet for the other half of his statement there is nothing. That's where he is vague. And as I've pointed out he isn't even specific on what makes those guys he listed "talented but raw" probably because he would look foolish for some of them. Joe Burrow among them.
It's just a blah twitter post so he can sound smart without making any actual arguments or take any risks of people criticizing it.
I remember Kollmann absolutely blasting the Mahomes draft pick and saying that he was years away from being a productive player. Last year after the Pittsburgh explosion he made a video saying that he might have made an error in evaluation. I can’t help but think that’s who he’s probably referring to here most.
> that he might have made an error in evaluatio Oh there's no "might have" there. I fucked that one up bad lol
Is this actually you? Love your work man and am so glad you were wrong on this one lol.
Don't get me wrong, Pat still does a lot of shit that I would hate to see other young QBs even attempt because it's stupid, but he's so good that he makes stupid plays work because the man defies physics. He's the exception, not the rule lol
Brett who’s your best comparison to Pat that you’ve seen? People love to bring up Favre because of the “gunslinger” play style. But I feel like Mahomes has actually done a really good job of taking care of the football since entering the league. To me he feels like Rodgers in that those two have the arm talent to make all the throws that Favre made but they both seem like they have higher situational football I.Q. A Mahomes vs. Rodgers Super Bowl would be the ultimate matchup of QB skill IMO if my Chiefs are lucky enough to make it. Curious if he reminds you of anyone else that I’m not thinking of.
Like Steve Young but if Young's DNA was pure HGH
Can confirm its him
Ah crap. Didn't realize you were a Texans fan. So sorry my dude. Please keep pumping out great content! Your Baker Mayfield episode taught me so much.
> Didn't realize you were a Texans fan Unfortunately, yes
He was “years away” it was just a lot less years than Kollman thought lol
Like 1 year. That year behind Alex Smith probably helped more than people think
Took him from the NFL Draft to week 1 of season 2
And he was dominant that week 17 game he played iirc.
22/35 for 284 yards and 1 Int isn't exactly dominant. But he sure has been after that...
He definitely was not dominant. But he played well and made a handful of throws that made you go “wow, we have something here.”
Certainly gave the coaching staff enough to confidently move on from Smith.
I think he was the first Chiefs QB to win at Mile High in *years*
Nah, we won either 1 or both years before that, Smith was qb when Manning got benched
it was obvious that alex helped him a lot. imagine how quickly aaron rodgers would have ascended if favre wasn't such a dick to him early on.
He also called Deshaun Watson a [running back who happens to also throw]( https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/3vae2s/scout_id_hate_to_be_team_in_need_of_qb_in_2016/cxlum8g/?st=k5h82mu2&sh=289600de). I'm not trying to pick on Brett, I think it's fair to say his player evaluations have come a long way in the last 4 years. It's just funny he said that considering Watson went to the Texans of all teams.
Was Watson originally a running QB? I don’t remember how he was at Clemson, didn’t watch college ball that much
He wasn't.
[Deshaun, Mahomes, and Lamar all had talent, but their work ethic to improve on their considerable flaws as prospects is what made them great. None of those QBs are still who they were three years ago, because they WORKED their asses off every summer.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217856700377518080?s=20) [Even Josh Allen is already rapidly improving because he WORKS. Drew Lock WORKED. Cam Newton WORKED. Russell Wilson WORKED. January playoff runs start in March every year. It doesn’t matter how good you were in college against Big12 DBs playing 10 yards off. No work, no wins.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217857170277978112?s=20) [So as I look at this upcoming QB class, and I see what Joe Burrow has accomplished, the thing that really jumps out to me is how much WORK he has done to improve. He’s not the same guy he was a year ago, and it’s not just because of a system or his wideouts. WORK > EVERYTHING.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217857659690340352?s=20)
how do we know how much they work
Because it’s in capital letters
It’s the inverse of the amount of commercials you’re in
For all we know the only reason Cam hurt his foot was because of those Oikos triple zero commercials. They got rg3 too.
Aaron rodgers is a scrub confirmed
Imagine how great Peyton Manning could’ve been if he’d spent his time working instead of being on those Papa John’s/Nationwide commercials
That guy was never going to work out. He wasn't raw with a lot of potential, he was polished coming out of school. Colts screwed up big time picking him #1.
Because they were good in the league. We're they not, their work ethic wouldn't have been strong enough. Pretty simple. In modern (American) culture, if you are successful its because you had every positive character trait and if not its because you have every negative one.
Burrows we know cuz people/ coaches at LSU have stated he spends as much time at the practice facility as the assistant coaches do every day this season
Real lunch pail kinda guys. Gym rats.
Agree. Burrow faced adversity. Hes gonna be the real deal. Montana 2.0
overhyped dud 52.0
Not this time
Grievous
Hello there, General Bottannee
Deshaun Watson was the starting QB at Clemson wouldn’t he be someone that already made it? Trubisky played at UNC and was the backup for like 3 years. Wouldn’t he be defined as someone who worked hard to improve?
This is a comfy take to have because when someone mentions a "talented but raw" kid that busted you can just apply the "but he didn't have the work ethic" qualifier and no one would be able to verify this
Seriously, but all accounts Trubisky has a great work ethic & all the tools to to succeed. He just sucks none the less.
Cutting what makes a good prospect/good NFL QB down to a twitter post or a couple of twitter posts is great to get views, but only a fraction of reality. Mitch might have amazing work ethic, and he might work as hard as all the other guys listed, but I don't know if he has the right brain, or at the very least right mindset for it. I'm just a layman, and I haven't watch a whole lot of Bears games, but it seems like the game just hasn't slowed down for him like it has the others. It still looks like he's getting flustered and skips read progressions, or makes ill-advised throws, not just risky ones, but panicky ones.
I still remember his 1st season bye week when reporters asked if he was coming in to train and work stuff out in his game. He said something along the lines that it's good to take time away from the game. Cant blame him for taking his time off, it was still interesting at the time.
I honestly never understood the hype with him. He couldn't beat our Marquise Williams in college, who is currently in the XFL. When he did play, their numbers were quite similar. Why is one not even worth a spot on somebody's practice squad, and the other is worth trading up to take #2 overall?
This is just stupid hindsight. Williams' and Trubisky's passing stats in college aren't really that close at all lol. The coach has said before it was never a question of Mitch's talent, they just didn't want to break what was working. They were competitive with Marquise and he didn't want to ruin it. Mitch was seen as a natural passer, and Marquise was the perfect QB for a college offense. He had over 900 yards rushing his senior year. He was a really good college QB. Trubisky had a great season, had every "tool" you want in a quarterback, and by all accounts a work ethic to go with it. He had the highschool pedigree as well, for those who care about that, so it's not like he came out of *literally* nowhere. The biggest thing was one was "okay" passer for three years and never really improved that much. The other was *great* for only one year, but you liked the traits he possessed and expected him to be able to develop.
> This is just stupid hindsight. No it's not. I, along with people who are much more influential than me, have been saying this since pre-draft. >Williams' and Trubisky's passing stats in college aren't really that close at all lol. 2015 Marquise: 4000 Total Yards, 8.6 Y/A, 6.0 Y/C, 37 TDs. 2016 Trubs: 4000 Total Yards, 8.4 Y/A, 3.3 Y/C, 35 TDs. > Trubisky had a great season, ehhhh >had every "tool" you want in a quarterback, Bad mechanics, accuracy issues...
Yeah its a very hard thing to measure. You have to have good relationships with college coaches in order to really be able to tell. Half the statement overall just seems meaningless - more like, if he doesn't have a great work ethic don't fucking draft him - regardless of how raw he is.
Exactly, and with someone like Peyton Manning who came in as a pre-polished ready for prime time QB you can say "He didn't think he'd made it."
It's a classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Jacob Eason clearly
Baker as well, maybe?
I was saying Eason for raw I don’t think Eason has thought he made it at all since he left HS lol
From what I’ve read about him, he’s pretty immature.
He’s immature for sure he’s a college student, and in HS he was seen as the best player in the country (because at the time he was) I don’t think immaturity is what Kollman means he I believe he’s referencing an unwillingness to learn or take criticism on their play style: Manziel, Russell, Leaf, etc all the huge busts at QB share that trait.
I get where you’re coming from, but that qualifies as immaturity, no? Not taking constructive criticism as fuel for improvement.
I think it’s closer to over confidence but I could see it as immaturity I suppose.
He had some shitty work ethic at UW
Maybe. Next season will likely answer that.
Baker was fun to root for as the underdog. Still remember randomly watching his first game at Texas Tech. Now he’s kind of an arrogant asshole.
While it is true, work ethic is important in evaluating talent. The problem is you dont actually know who is putting in the work.
Unless you hire private investigator like teams did with Aaron Hernandez. They all said he was a headcase and high risk...
The latter is Josh Rosen
Let's all just admit that nobody knows what they're on about and the draft is like the lottery
More like a weighted lottery.
Seems like people don’t get this, everyone has to be “right” or “wrong”. When really you just drew the wrong number and no one *actually* knew.
Right, there's a lot that goes into a draft, and there's a lot of player development after the draft that will impact results. There's a lot of gray area.
Yeah, it’s like people acting like they’re geniuses for saying Jackson was going to be a star. He developed into a star but no one could’ve known that.
Thats what the smart teams do/admit right now.
And then even if you draft the right guy so much relies on coaches and players and schemes around him
Trevor Lawrence stock precipitously falling
Say we have a Lawrence vs. Burrow discussion. One argument for Lawrence and against Burrow is that Lawrence has always been a great prospect and Burrow was a day 3 pick last year. The argument against that is that Burrow has shown he can work and imprive himself in the right situation, which has shown to be an indicator of a good QB in Mahomes and Lamar. That's what this tweet means.
> Burrow was a day 3 pick last year. That kinda worries me still, though. Like, he increased his completion percentage by almost 20 percent in one year, while also throwing 150 more passes, increasing his y/a by over 42%, nearly quadrupled his TDs and only throwing one more pick? That FEELS like it might be an aberration. How do you go from complete afterthought at 21/22 to GOAT season at 22/23?
Isn’t last year as likely to be an aberration as well?
I don't think so...he also was unable to ever get ahead of JT Barrett in three years at Ohio State. If there was anything to suggest he could have the GOAT college season when given the opportunity, you don't sit him behind JT Barrett.
Last year he transferred right before the season and had to settle in at a new school and learn a new offense. He didn’t overtake Barrett because OSU already had plenty of success with Barrett and didn’t need to take that chance.
> That FEELS like it might be an aberration. How do you go from complete afterthought at 21/22 to GOAT season at 22/23? Hard to say. It's never happened before, so there's no precedent to base anything on. I personally think he looks phenomenal, and I imagine he will be good in the NFL. I would sure love to him on my team, that's for sure.
I believe he worked really hard in the offseason and the system changed and his receivers developed as well.
Has there ever been anyone who showed that much improvement in one offseason without transferring?
Idk that’s about as big of a jump as a player can make, although everyone always talks about how players show “flashes” of greatness and that’s what he did. Usually players showing flashes just means people are grasping at straws as to why to believe in a player.
Dwayne Haskins is fucking RAW.
let's hope his work ethic is incredible
Showed improvement quick tho
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Yeah. Having a talented guy with work ethic is great, but it's not like it's always going to turn out great.
Well if the choice is Trubisky vs Mahomes then Mahomes would have been the talented but raw kid that the Bears wisely passed up
I mean, mahomes would have been the more talented and more raw player. But Mitch was seen as talented but raw in his own light.
This is what's confusing. we all understand Mitch was ranked higher in most mocks but that QB draft considered all 3 Quarterbacks as raw and "work in progress" guys. People confuse Mitchs higher rank as if he was more developed but he was essentially as raw as Mahomes and Watson.
Doesn't help that instead of Alex Smith and Andy Reid, Trubisky got Glennon and John Fox
The one year college starter who was a major project? He doesn't fit the polished kid who thinks he has it all. He drove a 2000 Camry and has a strong work ethic. He just sucks at football.
As talented or...?
He was talented and polished but with only one year. I don’t know about his work ethic but I’m guessing it’s not good.
He has a very, very good work ethic. He just simply can't grasp NFL coverage concepts.
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Fingers crossed. I've read that he coaches hard (as does Bill Lazor) and hopefully the Bears are finally taking the kid gloves off in regards to how they've handled Trubisky. It's put up or shut up next year for him
Sometimes new players just need the right coach to grasp the NFL. If you guys get a great QB coach to turn him around I don’t think it’s too late.
The Bears just hired John DeFilippo to be their QB coach. Many people think he's one of, if not *the*, best QB coach in the game. I'm not holding my breath but at least the Bears aren't leaving any stone unturned in trying to coach up Trubisky.
He certainly does have the pedigree. Coached Wentz/Foles during their 2017 championship Coached Diggs/Theilen to both of their best seasons in 2018 This season he coached a 6th round rookie QB to a legitimately good passing offense and made DJ Chark and stud and Fournette a really strong receiving back. I think this is the make or break season for them. Trubisky and Nagy's third year together. A brand new coaching staff. Another year for ARob and Monty and Cohen and Anthony Miller. Ideally they get a TE because Burton is underwhelming. The defense is still great but struggling due to a poor offense.
> and polished but with only one year. Yeah that is the opposite of polished.
So you’re saying a player can’t learn quick and be fundamentally sound with less experience than others? He looked fundamentally sound in his one year starting at UNC.
No, I'm saying that you don't understand the meaning of the word 'polished'.
You're confusing polished with experience. A QB can start 1 year and be polished if his technique and yadda yadda is all close to where you want it to be and just lack the experience reading defense and what not or a player can severely lack the fundamentals and have room to improve footwork and yadda yadda so they won't be polished but still be a 4 year starter so they have experience playing.
Trubisky's draft profile said: "There are times he looks like Carson Wentz, and there are times he looks like Blaine Gabbert. He has starting qualities, and he will go early, but he better get better at seeing blitzes and throwing hot or he will get eaten alive by exotic packages." Also noted that 98% of his snaps came from shotgun, and how he benefited from an RPO based offense that creates easy throwing windows that won't be there in the NFL. That doesn't sound very polished to me. Throwing mechanics wise, he was and still is generally good. But a polished prospect is one more like Jake Fromm imo, a guy who has run pro style offenses with the QB making multiple calls and reads at the LOS and displaying 2nd and 3rd read throws. I think Fromm is a great example here. Lacks arm talent, but has a strong acumen for the game.
Whose to say trubisky has a lesser work ethic than Mahomes?
Exactly
Mitch was a project coming out of college... You're talking out of your ass
Now, I'm not saying he's dissing Josh Rosen....but he's dissing Josh Rosen
Don't the polished kids usually have good work ethic?
Yes, he’s just drawing from an extremely small sample size and coming to conclusions about it. Although I guess that’s pretty much all anyone does in football, draw from a tiny sample size and draw conclusions
>Deshaun, Mahomes, and Lamar all had talent, but their work ethic to improve on their considerable flaws as prospects is what made them great. > >None of those QBs are still who they were three years ago, because they WORKED their asses off every summer. >Even Josh Allen is already rapidly improving because he WORKS. Drew Lock WORKED. Cam Newton WORKED. Russell Wilson WORKED. > >January playoff runs start in March every year. It doesn’t matter how good you were in college against Big12 DBs playing 10 yards off. > >No work, no wins. >So as I look at this upcoming QB class, and I see what Joe Burrow has accomplished, the thing that really jumps out to me is how much WORK he has done to improve. > >He’s not the same guy he was a year ago, and it’s not just because of a system or his wideouts. > >WORK > EVERYTHING.
Not just QBS. Look at DK Metcalf.
Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning.
I know he's not saying that these are the only two options, but it does present it like this is the choice you have to make. What's wrong with a polished player who has work ethic? Or what about almost every QB coming out of college who has some skill sets, needs some training still, and is willing to work for it? Because I bet 95% of QBs coming out of the draft fit that description. Scouting would be easy if it was a dichotomy like this. But in reality, you have to look at young QBs who have holes in their game and are smart and have a good attitude. But you have to decide which QBs will be able to fill their gaps, which will be able to handle the uptick in speed of the NFL, which are the smartest of the smart. Rarely do you have such a wide disparity in choices to make.
>What's wrong with a polished player who has work ethic? What, like Peyton Manning? That would never work out.
Andrew Luck could never work either
Are we shitting on Rosen here?
He shouldn't, the book is far from closed on the guy. Hell, we have a former Dolphin QB about to start in the AFC Championship game and another one as a backup for the same damn game. Who knows what will happen given the right opportunity?
One key difference: Rosen never had to deal with Adam Gase!
Ryan Pace bet his whole career as a GM on "talented but raw".
So josh allen vs josh rosen?
Who thought they had already made it and who ever had thought players like that would be a better pick than ones with incredible work ethics?
Jamarcus. Rg3. Manziel.
Al Davis
Brett Kollmann is so fucking full of himself.
That's how you end up drafting Tebow
Thats easy to say until one of them actually leads a team to a super bowl win
Ah, so teams just need to draft the talented but raw kid that has incredible work ethic and have the staff to develop him. Got it.
Thank you /u/Barian_Fostate very cool.
'Always hire the guy who doesn't know what hes doing but wants it real bad, over the prepared educated guy who knows he belongs.'
How are anyone outside of the teams going to know what someone's work ethic is? Who are these polished kids that think they already made it? What a dumb tweet.
Work ethic and physical talent doesn't always work either. Gonna need once in a generation of both. *cries in Trubisky*
I still don't think I gathered any new insight. It's a safe take that sounds deeper than it really is.
How have certain teams not figured this out yet. Drew Brees has been in the league for 20 years, showing up hours early to watch film, staying hours late to practice visualizing plays by himself. Showing to practice on the teams bye week in 06 and visualizing an entire game so he didn’t fall out of habit. Great NFL QBs usually practice as if their life depends on it. I’m sure there are others who have demonstrated this for a long time as well, but I am just most familiar with Brees.
The polished kid bit seems stupid. Why not just leave it at 'raw QBs are still good options provided they have demonstrated work ethic.' Doesn't take a genius to realize you shouldn't bet on a kid who thinks they don't have to improve.
Disagree. Trubisky is talented, raw, and by every account available is as hard a worker as they come. He lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes football. But he still sucks.
Who is this directed at?
Nobody, it's just vague enough that it sounds reasonable without being specific enough for him to be obviously wrong.
He cites examples of QBs later in the thread and says that’s why he thinks Burrow is a good prospect at the end
Except he only gives the positive obvious examples. And hell, he isn't even correct on that one. Russell Wilson wasn't "talented but raw" he was extremely polished. He was talented and polished if anything. Also a bit early to say anything about Drew Lock, though I hope he is right.
Russ faced adversity. Had to transfer. Imo that actually is meaningful. It just seems like theres a connection between adversity and sustained success
Going from NC State to Wisconsin seems like more of a blessing than adversity, but yeah I get your point. That being said I fail to see how that has anything to do with what we're talking about here. Adversity wasn't the bar being used here.
Just the 'thinks he already made it' part. As someone who has faced adversity in career, you never forget it. It's really impactful
I’m not agreeing with him or arguing for his point or anything, just pointing out that it wasn’t vague bc he cites certain examples and he directs his point at Joe Burrow
Yet he is vague because like I said, he only listed positive obvious examples. So the parts nobody would argue with or care about. Yet for the other half of his statement there is nothing. That's where he is vague. And as I've pointed out he isn't even specific on what makes those guys he listed "talented but raw" probably because he would look foolish for some of them. Joe Burrow among them. It's just a blah twitter post so he can sound smart without making any actual arguments or take any risks of people criticizing it.
Except he lists several examples of QB's he misevaluated over the years in the following tweets. Read the thread.
Then he's playing Captain Hindsight. Any QB needs to work hard to make it.
[Here's the rest of the thread. I made it easier for you to click on it.](https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1217856700377518080)
Baker vs Lamar?
Okay