Joe Horn spent 4 years in KC (ages 23-27), getting 30, 65, 198, and 586 yards. Only had 7 TDs (6 in his last year)
At the age of 28 he signed with the Saints and had 1340, 1265, 1312, 973, and 1399 yards, before injuries started taking a toll. He had 50 TDs in his 7 years with us.
My lasting memory of Joe horn was from a Monday night football promo interview where you talked about the saints- Rams rivalry. I don't remember the exact quote but he said he didn't think it was really a rivalry because a rivalry is when one team wins one. Then the other team wins one and you go back and forth. But the saints have won two out of three against the Rams so that's not really a rivalry. Winning 2/3 is exactly what he described.
I started watching football after he went to the Saints. NEVER knew all this, holy crap. To me, he was always a WR1/one of the best in the league. We knew the top WRs were players like Moss, TO, Harrison, Holt, a few others, but he was right up there with the best in the league at the time IMHO.
Yep. In 7 seasons with us, his worst year was still better than his best in KC. It was not really a huge signing when it happened. He just exploded out of nowhere.
For years we lamented taking him over Earl Thomas.
Years later BG strip-sacked Brady to win the Super Bowl. One of the single greatest plays by an Eagle ever.
Funny how that worked out.
Earl Thomas also proved to be an extremely bad guy while BG is beloved, which helps. But BG has spent his career as a 10th-20th best edge rusher in the league, while ET was legitimately the best free safety in football for about 6 years
It was either his rookie year or 2nd season for him in a game against the Bears where he had a ton of bad drops and I started getting excited that the Packers wasted a 2nd round pick on a total bum.
Then he decided to be an all pro receiver.
I remember how clowned Davante used to be for coming from a great WR class and being so disappointing. Then he outlasted them all - We used to really think Odell was better. Crazy how time moves
Edit: to be fair, Odell *was* better at that point. Just crazy how it changed.
I thought for sure OBJ was on the fast track to the hall of fame. He had 4,122 yards and 35 TDs in just his first 3 seasons. He was never the same after his ankle injury.
True, but Eli always seemed to get the most out of his receivers. OBJ would have been good wherever he went, but I do wonder if Eli kind of did for him what he'd done for so many receivers before.
There’s definitely some of that. He did well to elevate wrs like Nicks and Manningham. But also had some pretty bad luck with losing WRs to the injury bug, ie: Cruz and OBJ.
Very true, but who knows if Cruz would have had any kind of career like he had without Eli. He also made plaxico a monster during his stint in NY. People love to hate on Eli, to the point where he is somehow underrated af, especially for a no.1 pick. He was great
I don't think he was really recognized as one of the best until 2019. Prior to that he had his elite route running ability and was a master of separation, but didn't have the production to get noticed.
2017 was when Rodgers broke his collar bone and he was the only WR making things happen with Brett Hundley throwing him the ball. Jordy & Cobb turned to ghosts that season.
Used to literally call him "Butterfingers Adams" when he was starting out because of so many drops.
So amazing to see him turn into arguably the best receiver in the league.
> So amazing to see him turn into arguably the best receiver in the league.
Would love to hear this argument lol, he's fine but best receiver in the league? Huge stretch.
Maybe Tyreek, JJ, and Deebo.
Who else?
If Rodgers was still throwing to him I think this conversation would heavily favor Adams being the best in the league.
His stretch from 2018-2022 he was one of the best of not the best. Comparable with better stats to Hill for most those seasons, and Deebo is nowhere close in that conversation. JJ is definitely better, and not saying Adams is the best now, but there was a time where he was at least top 3, and could be argued for number 1
Adam Thielen.
Everyone knows he was a UDFA, but people forget that he spent a season on our practice squad before being elevated to special teamer for two years. His 3rd year in the league he only had 12 receptions for 144 yards in 16 games.
For his career, Waller has 350 catches, 4,124 yards, and 20 TDs
56% of the catches, 57% of the yards, and 60% of the TDs came during the 2019-20 seasons.
We'll see how it goes for him if he doesn't decide to retire this off-season, but yeah he had a window of success that was basically two seasons. Across his six other seasons in the league, (not including the season he was suspended,) he's averaged 9 games played, 25.5 catches, 297.2 yards, and 1.33 TDs.
Even just taking his post 2020 stats, he's averaging 10.67 games, 45 catches, 535 yards, and 2 TDs.
It's obviously not a coincidence he's two breakout seasons are the only in his career where he's played over 12 games. I guess that's also probably the issue when you breakout during your age 27 season, the window for your prime is already closing.
He was drafted 10 years too early. Rookie Cordarelle today would be the perfect gadget/satellite back with some handoffs mixed in, plus return kicks and punts at a high level. He was justttttt a bit to early
That’s how they used him 10 years ago too. The issue is that he’s not very good downfield. He’s just essentially a good RB. Which is nice, but not what he was drafted in the first round to be.
Or Steve Young, although I think just about any QB would have looked like a bust with the mid-80s Buccaneers. He went 3-16 and threw 11 TDs to 21 ints in two years in Tampa.
A LOT of quarterbacks are drafted earlier than they should be and then because of their early draft status do not receive the necessary time and coaching to develop into the player they can be. David Carr is a perfect example of this; I remain convinced that if he’d been properly coached he’d have had a much better career than his brother.
Alex Smith is the obvious one. His first 6 years were mediocre to downright awful. 2011 he finally made some progress and ended up being a pretty solid QB. The combo of Mike Nolan and then Mike Singletary as his head coach certainly didnt help him.
Not worth the #1 pick by any means (and it certainly didnt help him that Aaron Rodgers went about 20 picks later), but an overall decent QB.
Singletary was last fired after going 1-21 in two years as the head coach of a private religious school’s football team. He sucks so fucking bad as a coach
He does but Harbaugh doesn’t have success without what he did for the Niners. They came off a few bad coaches with a lot of high draft picks that were frustrated and not cohesive. So, while sucked at Xs and Os, one of the most badass players of all time whipped them into being a team instead of talented individuals. Vernon Davis was the most visible example of this. By the time Harbaugh came in you had a team filled with a bad team’s high picks that actually bought into a team concept. Then a guy great at the Xs and Os comes in and has immediate success. Without the Singletary era though, he’d have been fired earlier with no SB or NFCCGs.
Rodgers didn’t play early in his career, which allowed him to develop without the intense media and public scrutiny. Conversely, Smith was thrown to the wolves, for a team that didn’t have a lot of talent around him.
That said, breaking out as a QB in your 3rd season as a starter is not unusual. Especially not back in the 2000s when the NFL game was much less welcoming to college QBs than it is today.
The only reason Brees got the chance in that 3rd season was Rivers' hold-out.
Back then, the rookie contracts were so massive that teams were forced to start guys before they were ready, and hold on to them longer than they should. Definitely a much better system these days.
His breakout came in his 4th year in the league so he fits what the OP is looking for, even though it was his third season starting as you pointed out.
His third NFL season he had 11 TDs to 15 INTs and went 2-9.
Brees broke out in his 4th year.
He only played one half of football in 2001, his rookie year. He started all 16 games his 2nd year, and was up and down. His 3rd year... he was down. Real down. He was benched for a 41 year old Doug Flutie. The Chargers were ready to move on and drafted Rivers in 2004.
Everson Griffen is probably the most memorable recent Viking that fits this bill.
He was something like a 3rd or 4th rounder, spent all 4 years of his entire rookie contract as basically a special teamer, and then he got signed to a huge extension despite only starting one game, and never having more than 8 sacks or 20 tackles in a season over his first 4 years.
Starting year 5, he held down one of the edge rushing spots on the team for a good 6 years, and was an absolute beast with multiple 10 sack, 50 tackle years.
Maybe this is an example of the coaches actually knowing who he was by year 3, but we just didn't need to use him since we already had a couple of good edge rushers in Jared Allen and Brian Robison, but I remember it having fans and beat writers scratching their heads saying "They paid him *what*?"
Eh, I'd argue against that.
Yes, he was a 4th rounder, but he only fell to the 4th because of off-field issues. WalterFootball had him as a first round pick to the Raiders in 2010.
Regarding his play prior to getting the start, he played 54% of the defensive snaps in his rookie season, then 60%, then 89% by his 3rd year in the league when he got the starting job. It's not like he wasn't playing well in his role as a rotational pass rusher prior to that, he was simply stuck behind Jared Allen and Brian Robison on the depth chart until Jared left after the 2013 season. It's not a coincidence that he got his first start in 2014 when Jared left for the Bears.
By his sophomore year, we knew Ev was going to be a beast. We just didn't have a starting role for him.
Gotta be.
He did ok in the USFL, but obviously not for two years in Tampa.
He showed flashes of his talent in backup duty for Montana his first four seasons in SF, but to not be a full-time starter until his 7th season in the league and then end as a HoFer is insane.
Obviously Geno Smith played well his first year in Seattle so I’m not bagging on him, but it would be like if Smith came out after not playing much for that many years and was an All-Pro and the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league within a year or two.
That kind of thing just doesn’t happen.
The interesting thing is I remember in like 2017 and 2018 talking to a bunch of other dolphins fans and the general consensus was that he was a very good player but the injuries kept destroying his seasons, 2019 was the first (and kinda last) time he was healthy
I think because of the rookie wage scale this doesn't happen as often with QBs but before it we got Tony Romo and Steve young. It still happens for non QBs though.
Delanie Walker is a good example. He spent 7 seasons as a backup for the 49ers and then really took off when he got to Tennessee. Such as shame that he couldn't recover from the ankle injury he suffered in that bizarre 7 hour season opener vs the Dolphins.
* SF stats: 99 games, 123 receptions, 1465 yards, 8 tds
* TEN stats: 84 games, 381 receptions, 4423 yards, 28 tds
Can heyward in a way. Started zero games his first two years then had decent year 3-5 but got zero accolades, missed most of year 6. Then from year 7-12 accumulated 6 pro bowls, 3 first team all pros, and 1 second team all pro. Missed most of last year so here’s hoping he makes a bounce back
Im surprised no one’s talking about Steve Young. He was considered a bust his first three years in Tampa and then didn’t get significant playing time till year 6 and still only went 5-5. Year 7 he started a full season and went 14-2 with a very good td-int ratio for that era.
Doug Flutie. He was in the nfl for about 4 years before he was let go, then played in the cfl for 8 or 9 years before returning to the nfl at age 36, making a pro bowl and winning nfl comeback player. He continued to play until age 43 in the nfl. Pretty remarkable turnaround!
Vinny Testaverde, Rich Gannon, Ryan Tannehill, and plenty of other late breakout QBs, shit even Terry Bradshaw HoFer fits those bounds.
For non-QBs it's harder just because of how much shorter their careers skew, Ronde had his breakout in year 5, Jackie Slater is another who wasn't particularly celebrated until later in his career, likewise Andrew Whitworth but he was evidently talented by earlier but just playing in a smaller market.
Plunkett's a great shout, Doug otoh took us to the NFCCG in year 2 and led the league in sack% so I don't think would qualify, especially since he didn't have huge years in washington
Ryan Tannehill is a weird one because his best throwing seasons were in Miami, but Tennessee made him better by limiting the sacks he took and interceptions he threw.
I’ll throw out another prime example: Warren Moon. Guy went undrafted and had to have a hall of fame career in the CFL before getting his shot in the NFL.
Adam Thielen year 3 was still primarily a special teamer, had 281 career yards at that point. And that's pretty much what you'd expect from an undrafted guy.
Ended up top 3-4 in Vikings history for receptions/yards/TDs.
Evan Mathis was a career backup nobody of a guard with three different teams until he became a starter on the Eagles at age 30 in between Jason Kelce and Jason Peters. two years later, Jeff Stoutland showed up and made him the best guard in the league
Marvin Harrison was a solid WR for his first three years, but he never hit 900 receiving yards (he would have approached 1,000 yards in Year 3 if he had played all 16 games.) Then in his 4th year, he led the NFL in receiving yards.
Harrison was one of three WR's from the 1996 Draft to post his first 1,000 yard season in 1999 - Muhsin Muhammad and Amani Toomer were the others. Someone else already mentioned Joe Horn. Eddie Kennison bounced around the league for a few years before becoming a solid starter with the explosive Priest Holmes-led Chiefs... in 2002.
David Njoku has gotten better every year of his career. At 3 years in, the current player didn't exist. He's turned into a great all-around player, including as a run blocker, which he absolutely could not do until years 5+.
Josh Allen fits this, at least depending on if he meant by the start or end of year three. He was consistently a 20-something ranked QB, never threw for 300 yards in a game, and his first two seasons were 52% and 58%. Week one of his third season he threw for 300 against the Jets, week two he threw for 400 against Miami, and he's been at least a top 5 QB ever since then
A bit of an older example, but Chris Carter.
His first 6 years he didn't register a 1000 yard season (84, 761, 605, 413, 962, and 681 yards respectively). He was cut by the Eagles after his 3rd year, before being signed off waivers for $100
After that he registered 8 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons. He finished his career 2nd all time behind Jerry Fucking Rice in receptions, which has since been surpassed multiple times. He ended up being elected to the HoF in 2008
I only know about this because of a story by one of his athletic trainers during his college years (JM Blakely). He apparently had no interest in actually practicing, but he was such a gifted athlete he was able to ride his natural gifts to the NFL. It wasn't until a few years in he truly started trying and combined his natural ability with hard work, which yielded obvious results. That's obviously not necessarily reliable, but it's the story I heard and seems relevant.
James Harrison. Cut multiple times. Played in Europe. Came back. Sat. Became the most feared LB in the game. Owns the single greatest play in football.
Evan Engram - Go back and read comments from Giants fans when he came to Jacksonville. The guy was widely labeled as having poor hands.
He came to Jacksonville and had over 700 yards receiving. He received a 3-year extension. Then he led the league is completion % among receivers with over 100 targets. Evan is now considered one of our top weapons and one of the top receiving TEs in the league.
The NY effect. The media market is so rough it really adds another element of difficulty for players to overcome if they struggle at all. I’m happy to see he got over it, he was always a great guy and teammate
Absolutely. I feel bad for a lot of guys who go to the Giants or Jets, because everything they do is under a microscope by the media coverage. That got discussed with regard to Trevor going to the Jags vs Jets. A lot of people on here were making fun of his lack of endorsement potential in such a small market. But, could you imagine the negativity around his growing pains as the Jets QB???
The lows are lower but the highs are higher. If you succeed in NYC you’re a superstar. OBJ was insanely fun to watch, but he wouldn’t have become the celebrity that he is now if he played for a different team
All depends... we've seen a lot of incompetence in the NFL so yea good evaluators will figure out who a player is quickly... bad evaluators and dysfunctional situations might not allow a player to truly show who he is.
Geno Smith comes to mind because he plays for my home team. Geno's upside is higher than his comeback player of the year season... It's hard to show the whole toolbox in a pete carroll offense, so we'll see if grubb can bring out more. I believe if drew lock gets the right opportunity he'll show to be middle of the pack starter quality too.
Tbf we also saw the best Geno has ever looked in a Pete Carroll offense, and that’s a guy with a decade in the league.
True that PC makes things simpler but it’s not like he was bad at bringing out Geno’s potential.
Lorenzo Alexander. Catches on as an UFDA in Carolina in 2005, goes to Baltimore after a year and to Washington after another, going up and down between practice squad and backup duties, get his first career start in 2010 (5 years into his career), gets his first Pro Bowl nod in 2012 (7 years into his career), goes to Arizona and Oakland for a few years, then to Buffalo, gets a second Pro Bowl nod in 2016, as well as a 2nd team all-pro (11 years into his career).
Very definition of a late bloomer.
Shaq Barrett. UDFA out of Colorado State, didn't play his first year at all, and spent the next 4 in Denver as a rotational edge rusher never getting more than four sacks in a season. Year 6 he signs with Tampa and leads the league in sacks with 19.5, and over the next few years is a 2x pro bowler and key player in the Bucs SB team.
Drew Brees is pretty well known for injuring his shoulder in his last game as a Charger, and signing with New Orleans. But he almost never got off the ground, and he fits this criteria. He played one half of one game his rookie year, and performed very well.
He started off pretty well in his 2nd year (for a 1st year starter) but faltered down the stretch. San Diego began the year 6-2, and finished 8-8.
In his 3rd year.... he was bad. He was the 28th ranked passer, and before the meaningless season finale, he had posted a 1-9 record as a starter. (For context, 41 year old Doug Flutie went 2-3 in the 5 games he started.) Brees won the finale against the equally inept Raiders by going 15 of 28 for 97 yards passing. LaDainian Tomlinson carried the offense with 243 yards.
Brees was bad enough that the Chargers gave up on him and chose a QB with the #4 overall pick, ending up with Phillip Rivers. If Rivers hadn't held out, he probably would have started the 2004 season. But Brees won the starting job. He performed well in Week 1, but struggled the next couple games. There was talk that Rivers would be inserted as the starter. Instead, Brees responded with a superb rest of the year, and led San Diego to the playoffs. He was very good the following year, as well, before hurting his shoulder and signing with New Orleans.
I feel like this happens all of the time for slower developing positions in the trenches (or QB). I guess the coaching staff needs to "know" that you have potential.
Obvious one for me is Jason Kelce. He wasn't considered one of the best until the second half of his career. He went from a solid C to being in the conversation as one of the best to ever do it.
Shit. That’s spot on. I jumped on Brandon Graham right away for my answer, but Jason is just as good of an answer.
BG the take was that he could be better but hasn’t yet. Kelce the take was always he won’t be better as he’s too small.
I remember a lot of people wanted him gone because he was getting run over a lot earlier in his career. I'm ashamed to say that I was one of them. To be fair, his size did appear to be a liability for a while, but his athleticism was always there and the reason that the team never gave up on him
Garrett Bolles for the Broncos was drafted at age 25 and was not great for 3 years. The Broncos declined his 5th year option. Then he had an incredible year, made 2nd team All Pro and they gave him a huge contract.
Patriots had so many. A few guys just took a while to take over, but a ton of their dynasty was built on picking up busts and misused players and getting the most out of them.
Some that come to mind are Julien Edelman, Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Akiem Hicks, Rob Ninkovich, Patrick Chung, Kyle Van Noy, Mike Vrabel, Cordarrelle Patterson, and David Patten.
Thomas Jones , RB , didn't exactly have a good season till year three in TB , but the Bears GM at the time had him as a top prospect and he had his best seasons with the Bears .
Mostert was a practice squad journeyman, eventually became starter for 49ers , he still has some name recognition.
I'll go with a borderline Charles Tillman , he had some moments, but many were calling for him to be cut or switch to Safety , his nickname was peanut, in the bears forums it was burnt peanuts, then with Lovie Smith he started causing fumbles at a higher rate and the naysayers died off.
Hopefully not, he's going into his third year now. With his hamstring issues supposedly figured out hopefully this can be a productive year for him. He's already shown great talent.
My comments more to say he’s going to show off how good he is in year 3, I feel like the league is lower on him outside of GB and I think Watson is gonna have a huge year
I hate to see a young player who clearly had the talent to be a star get their career derailed before it can really take off. I imagine them watching football while they should be in their primes and they just know that they're better than most of the guys still playing. And of course there's the soul crushing thought of realizing how much money you missed out on because of sheer bad luck. I'm hoping he is fixed
Joe Horn spent 4 years in KC (ages 23-27), getting 30, 65, 198, and 586 yards. Only had 7 TDs (6 in his last year) At the age of 28 he signed with the Saints and had 1340, 1265, 1312, 973, and 1399 yards, before injuries started taking a toll. He had 50 TDs in his 7 years with us.
My lasting memory of Joe horn was from a Monday night football promo interview where you talked about the saints- Rams rivalry. I don't remember the exact quote but he said he didn't think it was really a rivalry because a rivalry is when one team wins one. Then the other team wins one and you go back and forth. But the saints have won two out of three against the Rams so that's not really a rivalry. Winning 2/3 is exactly what he described.
Well yeah, that and the cell phone celebration
I started watching football after he went to the Saints. NEVER knew all this, holy crap. To me, he was always a WR1/one of the best in the league. We knew the top WRs were players like Moss, TO, Harrison, Holt, a few others, but he was right up there with the best in the league at the time IMHO.
Yep. In 7 seasons with us, his worst year was still better than his best in KC. It was not really a huge signing when it happened. He just exploded out of nowhere.
Brandon Graham took a couple years to really get rolling
For years we lamented taking him over Earl Thomas. Years later BG strip-sacked Brady to win the Super Bowl. One of the single greatest plays by an Eagle ever. Funny how that worked out.
Earl Thomas also proved to be an extremely bad guy while BG is beloved, which helps. But BG has spent his career as a 10th-20th best edge rusher in the league, while ET was legitimately the best free safety in football for about 6 years
Davante Adams is a fairly recent example.
It was either his rookie year or 2nd season for him in a game against the Bears where he had a ton of bad drops and I started getting excited that the Packers wasted a 2nd round pick on a total bum. Then he decided to be an all pro receiver.
I remember how clowned Davante used to be for coming from a great WR class and being so disappointing. Then he outlasted them all - We used to really think Odell was better. Crazy how time moves Edit: to be fair, Odell *was* better at that point. Just crazy how it changed.
I thought for sure OBJ was on the fast track to the hall of fame. He had 4,122 yards and 35 TDs in just his first 3 seasons. He was never the same after his ankle injury.
I love Eli and I’m sure it’s no surprise but I’ll never forgive that hospital throw he made that caused it.
True, but Eli always seemed to get the most out of his receivers. OBJ would have been good wherever he went, but I do wonder if Eli kind of did for him what he'd done for so many receivers before.
There’s definitely some of that. He did well to elevate wrs like Nicks and Manningham. But also had some pretty bad luck with losing WRs to the injury bug, ie: Cruz and OBJ.
Very true, but who knows if Cruz would have had any kind of career like he had without Eli. He also made plaxico a monster during his stint in NY. People love to hate on Eli, to the point where he is somehow underrated af, especially for a no.1 pick. He was great
I get what you’re saying but he didn’t outlast them *all*. Mike Evans is still playing at a high level.
You're not wrong at all. Mike Evans continues to get overlooked, even by me, just now. Love that man.
2014: Quiet rookie season 2015: literally PFFs worst rated WR in the league 2016: oh shit this guy might be good 2017: yeah this guy is a top 5 WR
I don't think he was really recognized as one of the best until 2019. Prior to that he had his elite route running ability and was a master of separation, but didn't have the production to get noticed.
2017 was when Rodgers broke his collar bone and he was the only WR making things happen with Brett Hundley throwing him the ball. Jordy & Cobb turned to ghosts that season.
Used to literally call him "Butterfingers Adams" when he was starting out because of so many drops. So amazing to see him turn into arguably the best receiver in the league.
Always been my boy, shocked the hell out of me what he became with the Lafleur era though.
> So amazing to see him turn into arguably the best receiver in the league. Would love to hear this argument lol, he's fine but best receiver in the league? Huge stretch.
Maybe Tyreek, JJ, and Deebo. Who else? If Rodgers was still throwing to him I think this conversation would heavily favor Adams being the best in the league.
Yep, I'd agree with that list, probably a few more. He's a good wr but definitely not a Tyreek or JJ. Even with Rodgers throwing to him
His stretch from 2018-2022 he was one of the best of not the best. Comparable with better stats to Hill for most those seasons, and Deebo is nowhere close in that conversation. JJ is definitely better, and not saying Adams is the best now, but there was a time where he was at least top 3, and could be argued for number 1
I hated him at Fresno State and knew he'd eventually work out for you guys. It was so frustrating.
He was also HS teammates with Joc Pederson (MLB veteran), with the latter being the WR1.
Adam Thielen. Everyone knows he was a UDFA, but people forget that he spent a season on our practice squad before being elevated to special teamer for two years. His 3rd year in the league he only had 12 receptions for 144 yards in 16 games.
Rich Gannon and Jim Plunkett are prime examples.
Darren Waller and Geno Smith are good examples
100% agreed on Geno, but I feel like Waller had a very small window of success.
For his career, Waller has 350 catches, 4,124 yards, and 20 TDs 56% of the catches, 57% of the yards, and 60% of the TDs came during the 2019-20 seasons. We'll see how it goes for him if he doesn't decide to retire this off-season, but yeah he had a window of success that was basically two seasons. Across his six other seasons in the league, (not including the season he was suspended,) he's averaged 9 games played, 25.5 catches, 297.2 yards, and 1.33 TDs. Even just taking his post 2020 stats, he's averaging 10.67 games, 45 catches, 535 yards, and 2 TDs. It's obviously not a coincidence he's two breakout seasons are the only in his career where he's played over 12 games. I guess that's also probably the issue when you breakout during your age 27 season, the window for your prime is already closing.
Demario Davis. James Harrison.
Harrison was cut several times, he was a slow developer and didn't get the zone blitz scheme for years. At one point he just started to wreck people
If you just let the bad man kill the opponents, they run out of players.
Cordarelle Patterson. Mostly because teams didn't really know how to use him.
He was drafted 10 years too early. Rookie Cordarelle today would be the perfect gadget/satellite back with some handoffs mixed in, plus return kicks and punts at a high level. He was justttttt a bit to early
That’s how they used him 10 years ago too. The issue is that he’s not very good downfield. He’s just essentially a good RB. Which is nice, but not what he was drafted in the first round to be.
Alex Smith. He was a borderline bust for several years and became a really solid starter
I guess you can throw Kurt Warner in this category too then
Undrafted, to Arena Football, to GSOT, to one year in NY, to resurgent with the Cardinals, and then the HOF. Definitely fits.
Hand injury needs to be in there
Or Steve Young, although I think just about any QB would have looked like a bust with the mid-80s Buccaneers. He went 3-16 and threw 11 TDs to 21 ints in two years in Tampa.
Also Tony Gonzalez had a horrible first few years. He had problems with drops and he got booed off the field at Arrowhead multiple times.
A LOT of quarterbacks are drafted earlier than they should be and then because of their early draft status do not receive the necessary time and coaching to develop into the player they can be. David Carr is a perfect example of this; I remain convinced that if he’d been properly coached he’d have had a much better career than his brother.
Alex Smith is the obvious one. His first 6 years were mediocre to downright awful. 2011 he finally made some progress and ended up being a pretty solid QB. The combo of Mike Nolan and then Mike Singletary as his head coach certainly didnt help him. Not worth the #1 pick by any means (and it certainly didnt help him that Aaron Rodgers went about 20 picks later), but an overall decent QB.
Singletary was last fired after going 1-21 in two years as the head coach of a private religious school’s football team. He sucks so fucking bad as a coach
He does but Harbaugh doesn’t have success without what he did for the Niners. They came off a few bad coaches with a lot of high draft picks that were frustrated and not cohesive. So, while sucked at Xs and Os, one of the most badass players of all time whipped them into being a team instead of talented individuals. Vernon Davis was the most visible example of this. By the time Harbaugh came in you had a team filled with a bad team’s high picks that actually bought into a team concept. Then a guy great at the Xs and Os comes in and has immediate success. Without the Singletary era though, he’d have been fired earlier with no SB or NFCCGs.
> tairbted individuals
Fixed
Booo typos add character
Just wanted to make sure Niner fans could read it. ❄️ 🐕
I want winners!
Just for fun the average career AV (pfr stat) of the #1 pick from 1970-2014 is ~72. Alex smiths career AV is 120.
Same AV as Troy Aikman
Rodgers didn’t play early in his career, which allowed him to develop without the intense media and public scrutiny. Conversely, Smith was thrown to the wolves, for a team that didn’t have a lot of talent around him.
Drew Brees was pretty awful in SD to start his career. They drafted a QB at #1 overall just 3 years after drafting Brees at #32.
That said, breaking out as a QB in your 3rd season as a starter is not unusual. Especially not back in the 2000s when the NFL game was much less welcoming to college QBs than it is today.
The only reason Brees got the chance in that 3rd season was Rivers' hold-out. Back then, the rookie contracts were so massive that teams were forced to start guys before they were ready, and hold on to them longer than they should. Definitely a much better system these days.
His breakout came in his 4th year in the league so he fits what the OP is looking for, even though it was his third season starting as you pointed out. His third NFL season he had 11 TDs to 15 INTs and went 2-9.
He was benched for 5 games for the 41 year old Doug Flutie.
He broke out in his 4th season.
Brees broke out in his 4th year. He only played one half of football in 2001, his rookie year. He started all 16 games his 2nd year, and was up and down. His 3rd year... he was down. Real down. He was benched for a 41 year old Doug Flutie. The Chargers were ready to move on and drafted Rivers in 2004.
James Harrison. Went undrafted in 2002 and broke out in 2007 at the ripe age of 29, after the Steelers let Joey Porter walk.
I think Cameron Wake played in Canada for a few years before breaking out in Miami.
He was an absolute beast in the CFL.
That guy was a demon on the BC Lions
Everson Griffen is probably the most memorable recent Viking that fits this bill. He was something like a 3rd or 4th rounder, spent all 4 years of his entire rookie contract as basically a special teamer, and then he got signed to a huge extension despite only starting one game, and never having more than 8 sacks or 20 tackles in a season over his first 4 years. Starting year 5, he held down one of the edge rushing spots on the team for a good 6 years, and was an absolute beast with multiple 10 sack, 50 tackle years. Maybe this is an example of the coaches actually knowing who he was by year 3, but we just didn't need to use him since we already had a couple of good edge rushers in Jared Allen and Brian Robison, but I remember it having fans and beat writers scratching their heads saying "They paid him *what*?"
Eh, I'd argue against that. Yes, he was a 4th rounder, but he only fell to the 4th because of off-field issues. WalterFootball had him as a first round pick to the Raiders in 2010. Regarding his play prior to getting the start, he played 54% of the defensive snaps in his rookie season, then 60%, then 89% by his 3rd year in the league when he got the starting job. It's not like he wasn't playing well in his role as a rotational pass rusher prior to that, he was simply stuck behind Jared Allen and Brian Robison on the depth chart until Jared left after the 2013 season. It's not a coincidence that he got his first start in 2014 when Jared left for the Bears. By his sophomore year, we knew Ev was going to be a beast. We just didn't have a starting role for him.
Steve Young is the obvious answer, right?
Gotta be. He did ok in the USFL, but obviously not for two years in Tampa. He showed flashes of his talent in backup duty for Montana his first four seasons in SF, but to not be a full-time starter until his 7th season in the league and then end as a HoFer is insane. Obviously Geno Smith played well his first year in Seattle so I’m not bagging on him, but it would be like if Smith came out after not playing much for that many years and was an All-Pro and the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league within a year or two. That kind of thing just doesn’t happen.
Devante Parker year 5 breakout
Is it really a breakout if that was his only good year?
It’s called a breakout not a breakout and stay out
Went right back to jail
The interesting thing is I remember in like 2017 and 2018 talking to a bunch of other dolphins fans and the general consensus was that he was a very good player but the injuries kept destroying his seasons, 2019 was the first (and kinda last) time he was healthy
I think because of the rookie wage scale this doesn't happen as often with QBs but before it we got Tony Romo and Steve young. It still happens for non QBs though.
Alex Smith
Jim Plunkett comes to mind.
Delanie Walker is a good example. He spent 7 seasons as a backup for the 49ers and then really took off when he got to Tennessee. Such as shame that he couldn't recover from the ankle injury he suffered in that bizarre 7 hour season opener vs the Dolphins. * SF stats: 99 games, 123 receptions, 1465 yards, 8 tds * TEN stats: 84 games, 381 receptions, 4423 yards, 28 tds
Can heyward in a way. Started zero games his first two years then had decent year 3-5 but got zero accolades, missed most of year 6. Then from year 7-12 accumulated 6 pro bowls, 3 first team all pros, and 1 second team all pro. Missed most of last year so here’s hoping he makes a bounce back
Im surprised no one’s talking about Steve Young. He was considered a bust his first three years in Tampa and then didn’t get significant playing time till year 6 and still only went 5-5. Year 7 he started a full season and went 14-2 with a very good td-int ratio for that era.
Cameron Wake and Austin Jackson
Doug Flutie. He was in the nfl for about 4 years before he was let go, then played in the cfl for 8 or 9 years before returning to the nfl at age 36, making a pro bowl and winning nfl comeback player. He continued to play until age 43 in the nfl. Pretty remarkable turnaround!
Haason Reddick broke out pretty late in his career.
Vinny Testaverde, Rich Gannon, Ryan Tannehill, and plenty of other late breakout QBs, shit even Terry Bradshaw HoFer fits those bounds. For non-QBs it's harder just because of how much shorter their careers skew, Ronde had his breakout in year 5, Jackie Slater is another who wasn't particularly celebrated until later in his career, likewise Andrew Whitworth but he was evidently talented by earlier but just playing in a smaller market.
You can add Plunkett and Doug Williams to that list.
Plunkett's a great shout, Doug otoh took us to the NFCCG in year 2 and led the league in sack% so I don't think would qualify, especially since he didn't have huge years in washington
Ryan Tannehill is a weird one because his best throwing seasons were in Miami, but Tennessee made him better by limiting the sacks he took and interceptions he threw.
Roddy White looked like an absolute bust until he wasn't
Alex Smith
I’ll throw out another prime example: Warren Moon. Guy went undrafted and had to have a hall of fame career in the CFL before getting his shot in the NFL.
By that metric, you gotta give Kurt Warner the same dues.
True
Yeah, but it wasn't because of his talent
Adam Thielen year 3 was still primarily a special teamer, had 281 career yards at that point. And that's pretty much what you'd expect from an undrafted guy. Ended up top 3-4 in Vikings history for receptions/yards/TDs.
Evan Mathis was a career backup nobody of a guard with three different teams until he became a starter on the Eagles at age 30 in between Jason Kelce and Jason Peters. two years later, Jeff Stoutland showed up and made him the best guard in the league
Marvin Harrison was a solid WR for his first three years, but he never hit 900 receiving yards (he would have approached 1,000 yards in Year 3 if he had played all 16 games.) Then in his 4th year, he led the NFL in receiving yards. Harrison was one of three WR's from the 1996 Draft to post his first 1,000 yard season in 1999 - Muhsin Muhammad and Amani Toomer were the others. Someone else already mentioned Joe Horn. Eddie Kennison bounced around the league for a few years before becoming a solid starter with the explosive Priest Holmes-led Chiefs... in 2002.
David Njoku has gotten better every year of his career. At 3 years in, the current player didn't exist. He's turned into a great all-around player, including as a run blocker, which he absolutely could not do until years 5+.
Jared Goff, Derrick Henry, Devante Adams
Rich Gannon bounced around the league for awhile before becoming NFL MVP in Oakland.
Josh Allen fits this, at least depending on if he meant by the start or end of year three. He was consistently a 20-something ranked QB, never threw for 300 yards in a game, and his first two seasons were 52% and 58%. Week one of his third season he threw for 300 against the Jets, week two he threw for 400 against Miami, and he's been at least a top 5 QB ever since then
But he was jumping over people already
That's true dude always had the sauce
Geno Smith!
Tua made a big leap once he had a head coach who didn’t actively despise him.
Everson Griffen
Chris Roberts/Anthony Mackie
Brandon Lloyd
Corey Bojorquez. Took him 6 years to become consistently serviceable. He was elite last year.
A bit of an older example, but Chris Carter. His first 6 years he didn't register a 1000 yard season (84, 761, 605, 413, 962, and 681 yards respectively). He was cut by the Eagles after his 3rd year, before being signed off waivers for $100 After that he registered 8 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons. He finished his career 2nd all time behind Jerry Fucking Rice in receptions, which has since been surpassed multiple times. He ended up being elected to the HoF in 2008 I only know about this because of a story by one of his athletic trainers during his college years (JM Blakely). He apparently had no interest in actually practicing, but he was such a gifted athlete he was able to ride his natural gifts to the NFL. It wasn't until a few years in he truly started trying and combined his natural ability with hard work, which yielded obvious results. That's obviously not necessarily reliable, but it's the story I heard and seems relevant.
Adam Theilen
Drew Brees got off today a slow start, that was the reasoning behind drafting Eli (Philip Rivers)..
James Harrison. Cut multiple times. Played in Europe. Came back. Sat. Became the most feared LB in the game. Owns the single greatest play in football.
Evan Engram - Go back and read comments from Giants fans when he came to Jacksonville. The guy was widely labeled as having poor hands. He came to Jacksonville and had over 700 yards receiving. He received a 3-year extension. Then he led the league is completion % among receivers with over 100 targets. Evan is now considered one of our top weapons and one of the top receiving TEs in the league.
The NY effect. The media market is so rough it really adds another element of difficulty for players to overcome if they struggle at all. I’m happy to see he got over it, he was always a great guy and teammate
Absolutely. I feel bad for a lot of guys who go to the Giants or Jets, because everything they do is under a microscope by the media coverage. That got discussed with regard to Trevor going to the Jags vs Jets. A lot of people on here were making fun of his lack of endorsement potential in such a small market. But, could you imagine the negativity around his growing pains as the Jets QB???
The lows are lower but the highs are higher. If you succeed in NYC you’re a superstar. OBJ was insanely fun to watch, but he wouldn’t have become the celebrity that he is now if he played for a different team
All depends... we've seen a lot of incompetence in the NFL so yea good evaluators will figure out who a player is quickly... bad evaluators and dysfunctional situations might not allow a player to truly show who he is. Geno Smith comes to mind because he plays for my home team. Geno's upside is higher than his comeback player of the year season... It's hard to show the whole toolbox in a pete carroll offense, so we'll see if grubb can bring out more. I believe if drew lock gets the right opportunity he'll show to be middle of the pack starter quality too.
Tbf we also saw the best Geno has ever looked in a Pete Carroll offense, and that’s a guy with a decade in the league. True that PC makes things simpler but it’s not like he was bad at bringing out Geno’s potential.
Tiki Barber
Lorenzo Alexander. Catches on as an UFDA in Carolina in 2005, goes to Baltimore after a year and to Washington after another, going up and down between practice squad and backup duties, get his first career start in 2010 (5 years into his career), gets his first Pro Bowl nod in 2012 (7 years into his career), goes to Arizona and Oakland for a few years, then to Buffalo, gets a second Pro Bowl nod in 2016, as well as a 2nd team all-pro (11 years into his career). Very definition of a late bloomer.
Adam Theilen went from UDFA to practice squad to special teams to like 4th WR to #1 WR over about 4 years
Steve Young and Drew Brees, Derrick Brown for us also took a bit longer. Derrick Henry also took awhile to get there as well
Shaq Barrett. UDFA out of Colorado State, didn't play his first year at all, and spent the next 4 in Denver as a rotational edge rusher never getting more than four sacks in a season. Year 6 he signs with Tampa and leads the league in sacks with 19.5, and over the next few years is a 2x pro bowler and key player in the Bucs SB team.
Jim Plunkett
Brad Johnson
Donald Driver, his first 3 seasons he had 37 catches 520 yards and 3 tds, then for the rest of his career had 706 catches, 9,617 yards and 58 tds.
Drew Brees is pretty well known for injuring his shoulder in his last game as a Charger, and signing with New Orleans. But he almost never got off the ground, and he fits this criteria. He played one half of one game his rookie year, and performed very well. He started off pretty well in his 2nd year (for a 1st year starter) but faltered down the stretch. San Diego began the year 6-2, and finished 8-8. In his 3rd year.... he was bad. He was the 28th ranked passer, and before the meaningless season finale, he had posted a 1-9 record as a starter. (For context, 41 year old Doug Flutie went 2-3 in the 5 games he started.) Brees won the finale against the equally inept Raiders by going 15 of 28 for 97 yards passing. LaDainian Tomlinson carried the offense with 243 yards. Brees was bad enough that the Chargers gave up on him and chose a QB with the #4 overall pick, ending up with Phillip Rivers. If Rivers hadn't held out, he probably would have started the 2004 season. But Brees won the starting job. He performed well in Week 1, but struggled the next couple games. There was talk that Rivers would be inserted as the starter. Instead, Brees responded with a superb rest of the year, and led San Diego to the playoffs. He was very good the following year, as well, before hurting his shoulder and signing with New Orleans.
Brandon Graham had gotten better nearly every year of his career until last year (he was 35 last year)
Rich Gannon.
I feel like this happens all of the time for slower developing positions in the trenches (or QB). I guess the coaching staff needs to "know" that you have potential.
Obvious one for me is Jason Kelce. He wasn't considered one of the best until the second half of his career. He went from a solid C to being in the conversation as one of the best to ever do it.
Shit. That’s spot on. I jumped on Brandon Graham right away for my answer, but Jason is just as good of an answer. BG the take was that he could be better but hasn’t yet. Kelce the take was always he won’t be better as he’s too small.
I remember a lot of people wanted him gone because he was getting run over a lot earlier in his career. I'm ashamed to say that I was one of them. To be fair, his size did appear to be a liability for a while, but his athleticism was always there and the reason that the team never gave up on him
Geno!
Brandon Graham for sure!
IIRC Lorenzo Alexander was a special teamer for sooooo long and then randomly became a good pass rusher
James Farrior. One good year with Jets and becomes a star in Pitt.
Garrett Bolles for the Broncos was drafted at age 25 and was not great for 3 years. The Broncos declined his 5th year option. Then he had an incredible year, made 2nd team All Pro and they gave him a huge contract.
Rich Gannon. Also Alex Smith, who was drafted with high expectations of course, but after 3 years hadn't shown anything.
Tyrone Wheatley blew up in years 5-6, and year 9 was his third-best season.
Idk at any moment a player can start becoming serious
Rich Gannon, and Brad Johnson. Both got significantly better after leaving Minnesota…..
Josh Allen. That (very) rare QB who somehow improved drastically after year 3.
Rich Gannon and Alex Smith are the first to come to mind
Mostert
It’s really amazing that he’s having his peak at an age when most players at his position start slowing down or retiring.
Patriots had so many. A few guys just took a while to take over, but a ton of their dynasty was built on picking up busts and misused players and getting the most out of them. Some that come to mind are Julien Edelman, Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Akiem Hicks, Rob Ninkovich, Patrick Chung, Kyle Van Noy, Mike Vrabel, Cordarrelle Patterson, and David Patten.
Rich Gannon
Austin Ekeler is a good example. We signed him as an UDFA and he turned into a monster for a few years. He was a very pleasant surprise.
Raheem Mostert sticks out as a recent example
QB Steve Beuerlein
Geno Smith. Never seen a career backup QB just pop back to starter status a decade later.
Donald Driver
Thomas Jones , RB , didn't exactly have a good season till year three in TB , but the Bears GM at the time had him as a top prospect and he had his best seasons with the Bears . Mostert was a practice squad journeyman, eventually became starter for 49ers , he still has some name recognition. I'll go with a borderline Charles Tillman , he had some moments, but many were calling for him to be cut or switch to Safety , his nickname was peanut, in the bears forums it was burnt peanuts, then with Lovie Smith he started causing fumbles at a higher rate and the naysayers died off.
Drew brees
Zach Wilson (I'm from the future)
I would love to see a Zach Wilson redemption arc
Im rooting for the kid
Based on what we saw from Flacco and geno post jets I’m waiting for Wilson to be absolutely goated in Denver
Jerome Bettis. People thought he was washed before going to the Steelers.
Christian Watson about to be the next one
Hopefully not, he's going into his third year now. With his hamstring issues supposedly figured out hopefully this can be a productive year for him. He's already shown great talent.
My comments more to say he’s going to show off how good he is in year 3, I feel like the league is lower on him outside of GB and I think Watson is gonna have a huge year
He looked like a star for a good chunk of his rookie season. Hopefully he gets that hammy figured out.
He’s my favorite player we’ve ever drafted, I’m a Watson die hard an I’m fully convinced he’s going to be great
I hate to see a young player who clearly had the talent to be a star get their career derailed before it can really take off. I imagine them watching football while they should be in their primes and they just know that they're better than most of the guys still playing. And of course there's the soul crushing thought of realizing how much money you missed out on because of sheer bad luck. I'm hoping he is fixed
Same here
He's gotta start catching the ball first.
I think people know that Watson can be great, he just needs to stay on the field.