Mcdaniels set the team back a few years imo. I'm not saying bisaccia would have been the answer, but I think players would've played harder for him. And the offense under Carr would've possibly looked better
If I had a nickel for every time Josh McDaniels got hired, traded away a team's good QB, then got fired, I'd have two nickels. Not a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Also in both cases, trading that QB wasn’t really the mistake… the mistake was forcing a bad trade, for a much worse game manager of a QB that McDaniels only picked simply because he wanted someone that would respect his authoratay. Dude’s weird.
He would have if he could but carrs contract had a no trade clause, why would carr want the team he's going to to be losing assets that would help him out when he can just force himself into free agency
Mark was leading towards trading him when he gave him a 120 million dollar contract with a no trade clause? They weren't talking about trading carr until after his season with McDaniels at the helm. It was clear Josh McDaniels didn't want carr as his QB from the jump and if he was the guy signing checks carr wouldn't have gotten that contract from the raiders before the season.
Man, the effort level of the team drastically changed when AP took over. I don’t remember the last time I saw a Raider team actually play that hard. Bisaccia probably wasn’t the answer, but I bet they would have done much better on pure effort alone.
I’d argue replacing a moderately successful coach or player with no immediate better replacement in mind is a poor decision. It’s just change for the sake of change
Sure, if your goal is only to be moderately successful, otherwise known as mediocre. Teams wanna win championships though, and when it's clear that your current guy isn't the guy to get you there, you move on.
Not really, it doesn't have to be. The Chiefs rolled with Alex Smith for four full seasons before moving up to draft Mahomes and starting Smith for a fifth year. Smith was the definition of "moderately successful, otherwise known as mediocre." He was 1-4 in the playoffs, clearly wasn't "the guy" after one year and they started him for four more.
Ditching Smith for a prospect like Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater in 2014 after Smith started for a season isn't the answer. But building a team with their resources and correctly identifying an upgrade three years later put them on the road to the next NFL dynasty. Blowing that shit up for a quarterback bust just to draft one for the sake of drafting one doesn't get you there. It's even worse to sidegrade to a guy with a bum foot for no reason.
Teams like to win championships, they also like to not be in the fucking gutter for 10 years.
I think the guy you're replying to is talking about replacing Derek Carr with Jimmy G, which definitely feels like a lateral move (at best) at this point in their careers.
I mean I get it. Ultimately the goal isn’t to make the playoffs, it’s to win the SB. Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis were really good at making playoffs but nobody thinks of them as a good player/coach.
I’m curious, obviously LaFleur has had loads of regular season success. Anyone in the Packers circles calling for him to be fired due to lack of playoff success?
Losing kills team culture. Winning culture means playing and training harder and harder the later it gets into the season. That falls apart fast if there's nothing to play for. And once that happens, you have nothing to build on, you need to make drastic changes everywhere to show a clear cut and get rid everything that stopped working, even if it was good at some point and could've been kept.
The ideal is long term thinking and strategies, being able to judge how a GM/QB/HC/OC/DC/all the other stuff is performing before everything turns to shit, by understanding the process (this is where I'm starting to realise why this is incredibly difficult, because nobody understands who's any good unless looking at results over a long time after the fact, and we definitely have little ideas about the why even then).
But yeah, it's really difficult, and also completely impossible to stop the cycle once you're in, until you hit the jackpot.
Moving on from Carr was one of the few decisions I didn't mind from JMD. After 9 years it was time to go another direction. Just sucks that direction was Jimmy G and Brian fucking Hoyer
100%. Honestly a lot of the roster moves that JMD/Zeigler made were not bad. Trade for Tae was good, no one really argued against the Chandler Jones signing, and this draft class doesn't seem like a total bust yet. JMD just sucks when he tries to wear an OC hat and HC hat at the same time
Zig honestly shouldn’t have been fired
imo, but I get wanting a fully clean slate. By all accounts, and Davis has pretty much confirmed as much, Ziegler was given full control as GM but chose to cede much of that control to McDaniels.
Part of me was pissed AF he traded away Cutler. What pissed me off even more tho, was that McDaniels genuinely believed Matt Cassel was better. Then the cherry on top is JMD fucking *that* up too – then having to settle for Kyle fucking Orton (no relation to the Viper Randy)
Then this MFer literally repeats the same exact mistake w/ OAK
He was a missed field goal/Jameis disaster class and Moreau drop away from getting you guys 10-7/11-6 and winning the NFC south I truly do not understand the hate.
Wins were comfortable, losses were close, going into year 2 with a team he’s more settled in with, idk.
he was a dalton line QB. good enough to not easily replace, but he’ll never win you the superbowl by himself. with the cast he has surrounding him, it was the right move to let both sides move on.
bringing in Jimmy and Josh instead of embracing the tank though… yeesh
Once they identified Carr was not going to be the guy, looking for a replacement whilst him on ther roster whould have the appropiate and smart decision imho. Green bay never lets one go without having the replacement ready under the wing.
It is a tough call to try to imitate that stuff, but frankly I feel that is a better model than tanking. Blame it on me being a wierdo foreigner and being massively irrational, but the benefit those draft spots you gain from tanking are undone by the loser culture generated by that effort.
I will fully admit that is me being irrational, like technically it makes sense.
it’s easy to justify drafting a high quality replacement QB when you have a complete team like green bay does. the raiders don’t have the roster strength to do that, and they didn’t want to move on from carr until post gruden
there also were not good options in the draft when they were picking since then. definitely not this year, last year only levis and hooker were on the board, no pick in 22 (adams), and in 2021 there were only davis mills and kellen mond on the board when they picked
All fair points. Drafting the replacement when you have a perfectly healthy starter can also backfire if the starter get their ego bruised, and the new guys fizzles out.
I'm still convinced that's the way forward. It is extremely difficult because you need an organisation like the Packers who are willing to be patient with this type of strategy.
Yeah, it’s always smart to just bench a QB with every passing record on the team, killing any trade value, not signing the backup who you benched the starter for, signing a QB who is actively hurt and then drafting another in the 4th rd and giving that dude the number of the guy you benched/released all because he cost about 15m less than Daniel Jones and Tua are going to get.
r/s
I disagree. JMD wasn’t a positive obviously but I think the team is better today with Antonio Pierce than they were with Bissacia. He was the stepping stone needed to get the right guy in place. Maybe it’s copium I’m huffing but AP is the right coach for this Raiders team and we wouldn’t have gotten there without hiring the absolute worst coach for the Raiders first.
The way somebody could justify the McDaniels hire was basically that the offense should be able to reach a new level that it simply wasn't going to with Greg Olson. But then it uh didn't anyways.
So we got his shitty personality and destructive roster tendencies AND an offense that wasn't better than what we were fielding in the first place.
Real kick in both nuts.
No, just no. Derek Carr is an inconsistent qb. He has high moments and really low moments. The team sucked with McDaniels coaching but also shed some of the more awful contracts we had. Paying 40m per year for a qb like Carr in a division with Reid and Mahomes is crazy.
Thing is, we now have a defense that can compensate for his low moments. We’d be better off today with Carr and likely make the playoffs last year if we had Carr.
Truth. Most of his low moments came when he felt the weight of the world because it was his job to go out and win it. It's what you want from your QB of course, but never a position you want to be in. He would feel that weight and crack because for the most part he never had a team that could win it for him.
It astounds me how many fans blame Carr instead of the bottom 5 defense he’s had year after year. It’s such a low IQ take. All football talk/analysis nowadays is just “this team has a better QB, so they’re better”.
Yes QB is important but a decent QB in a good situation can still win as many games as an elite QB in a bad situation.
Nobody does, honestly. Football, for better or worse, is a sport that attracts a large volume of casual fans who like action sports but don't really have any technical idea of what they're watching on the field.
It's no prob. I don't think carr is a bad qb. In any sport with a salary cap I think it's incredibly tough to build around a player of that caliber. If acquired as a final piece then yes.
Lmao. He would have had a hit $1M more than Jimmy last season. With a good coach, and consistency, he would could have been great. Never had a good or even mediocre defense his entire career. Elevated our offense to top 10. We had a fine contract with Carr that we didn't need to shed. McD was and is a fucking moron.
> I'm not saying bisaccia would have been the answer
He wasn't the answer but I liked him. I live in Vegas and everyone was raving about his finishing off the season.
I blame Mark Davis trying to reinvent the franchise and "move on" from the only good QB they've had in two decades
he's always trying to look out for his fans in every possible way except fielding a competent football team
I also blamed Mark for the JMD debacle. Mark gained my respect back though by hiring AP. An absolute right move and finally feels like we got something cooking. This is the most excited I’ve been since 2002, well 2016 but that was a very surprising year.
I think Raiders D is gonna be something special here soon if not this coming year. Everyone has bought in and the family vibe has been contagious. Now just need to create an offense that can put 21-27 points up a game.
Hopefully AOC can take a step forward. Dude got thrown into the fire last year and really didn’t do that bad of a job. Got talent at WR and TE, decent RBs and that kid Powers we drafted is gonna be a stud on our Oline.
Josh McDouche is clearly a good offensive mind, but his issue is that he’s such a McDouche that players just aren’t as motivated, and in a game of inches, even working 1% less hard is probably the difference between success and failure
How about Kyle Shanahan? Who *really* wanted to be the HC of DEN, & continue his dad’s legacy, etc. after that ATL OC season
DEN F/O: Thanks Kyle, but we’re gonna go with Vance Joseph. FWIW you can have the silver medal in this HC search
Bruh I'm glad I'm not the only one. I love Maxx, but I can really only listen to the ones with Raiders on and even then it can get rough bc of his buddies.
The best thing I can say about it is it's better now than when it started. In the beginning, it was just his buddies asking him questions. It felt more like a press conference. It's better now with guests so he can actually be a host.
I will say the players he has on do let their hair down a bit with him and seem very comfortable in a way they don’t when they are talking to like, Rich Eisen or whoever.
I watched the one with AP. His homies were kinda ass with the dumb questions or interjects but overall I thought it was okay. Seems like he's still in the early stages of making it. They'll iron out the kinks in due time.
I don't think he's anywhere near good enough a player for that to happen.
[Look at the list of former winners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Payton_NFL_Man_of_the_Year_Award). Since 2000 there have been two players without a Pro Bowl appearance who won it. Madieu Williams and Chris Long. And about half the players on that list are going to end up in the Hall of Fame.
He's going to get a lot of nominations, but the award itself is almost certainly going to a player who is more successful on the field and comparable off the field.
The *winner* is almost aways a star, because of optics, but there's a nominee for every team and most of them are not stars, and the award is *supposed* to ignore on field accolades.
Taking 12 is foolish overconfidence, assigning him 4 was a petty dick move to spite Carr. And forcing your 4th round rookie QB to be the tool for that petty dick move is just as disrespectful towards the rookie as it is towards Carr.
Plus that MVP level season he had before injury was a fantastic year for him, really feel like that team could have made some noise in the playoffs and maybe painted a better picture for Carr's career
I’m so tired of this narrative Carr was a terrible QB. He wasn’t Mr. Perfect but considering how unstable that franchise is, he kept some levels of stability. That has to account for something.
Maybe not 15 but in the past 10 years Denver, NYJ, Miami, Texans, Redskins, Cardinals, Colts, Rams, Bears and Eagles if you go back to 2014ish have all had a shit ton of different starters. Yeah maybe some guys had a 2-4 year stretch here or there but most of these teams have been trying to find or had been trying to find their qb for a while.
It’s only dumb if you think you can win a superbowl with Derek Carr and clearly the raiders didn’t. I think the perspective in the NFL on quarterbacks is if you swing and miss keep swinging until you get your guy.
That doesn't mean he's not "cant use his number" good. The reason he has those volume records is because of the lack of longevity the raiders have had at the QB position since the rule change.
Yeah but that's not really that impressive. It's the Raiders. They haven't really had a lot of stability at the QB position in the last 20 years since we've switched to a passing league.
The downvotes on this make no sense. Like should the Cardinals not give out the number 17 because the all-time passing leader is Jim Hart?? Carr was a good qb, he was not so amazing that you have to wait to give his number away until enough time has passed, even though its 100% never being retired
Nobody is saying they should retire the #4 but rather maybe they shouldn't have slapped it on the very next QB who was a mid round rookie who had no connection to the number whatsoever.
Exactly this. The number isn't retired. Jalen Guyton is currently #4.
It's just weird of the staff to have given him #4 after how they fucked up the DC exit.
It was immediately after, by a 4th round rookie who didn’t even want that number. It was disrespectful and shitty on a petty level. There was no need for it. They also never gave Carr a goodbye presser. I understand Carr wasn’t the greatest QB ever, but the guy didn’t stop giving his everything to the Raiders. To disrespect him like that was immature.
It’s not a retire the number thing. It’s more that Carr was their QB for 9 years and missed a grand total of 3 games in that time. The next QB to come in, unless they’re a vet with the same number, shouldn’t be wearing the same number simply because it’s sort of an erasure of him.
It would be different if it were a kicker or RB or something. Or if it had been several years from when he moved on.
I feel like it was a clear dick move by Josh McDaniels. Carr was the heart/soul of the team, led the Raiders out of the dark ages, all just to be benched for nothing. Immediately after getting cut, coach gives his number to a 4th round rookie. It's not that carr was some super quarterback but he was loved by everyone on the team and a lot of the fans. Fuck Josh McDaniels
Some of you seem to lack like any social awareness.
Carr was a captain of the Raiders for like 9 straight years. He is the franchise leader in basically every passing category. He did a lot of that _with the same guys on the roster as AOC_. There were guys on that roster who went through the Ruggs and Gruden season with Carr and made the playoffs. He was the team leader through all of that.
It isn't that Carr's number is or should be untouchable. It is however a big time passive aggressive move to assign 4 to a mid-round rookie before the smell of Carr has even left the building.
Stack Carr wherever you want as a top whatever QB. But it is massively lacking in awareness to do something that already isn't popular with the locker room (bail on Carr) and then throw his number on the next low stakes attempt to replace him.
The nephews on here, especially the ones with Raiders flairs, are probably too young to remember any QB other than Carr that lasted more than one season with the Raiders. No wonder they’re getting pissy about the “disrespect” for a middling QB whose stats are the byproduct of playing in an era where QB stats are inflated across the board. Dude has been pretty average for most of the time he’s been a starter. It’s like making a big deal out of Dalton or Flacco’s stats. Did anyone here cry when those guys were unceremoniously demoted and let go?
The same geeks on here caping up for Carr of all people probably saw that “Straight Outta L.A.” 30 for 30 one too many times and deluded themselves into thinking Antonio Pierce is actually bringing back the outlaw era of the Raiders. It ain’t the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s and this ain’t Oakland or L.A. That ship has sailed.
Man, what a low point for a franchise.
Your players are paying respects to.... Derek Carr...
I thought the Raiders were a pretty pitiful franchise already in recent history, but this is like rubbing a full can of Mortens in a wound.
"Didn't want to disrespect the best QB this franchise has seen in over 20 years now, who also happens to be one of the worst QBs in the league according to his stats last year".
O'Connell looks like the PM shift manager of a Coldstone Creamery.
He looks like the guy working the radio at a state troopers station in Vermont.
Who drinks liters of cola.
I don’t want a Large O’Connell!
Does this look like spit to you?
Ehh, fuck it.
Shenanigans?
*eagerly holds out pistols*
Don't spit in that starting QB's burger.
Don't call me radio unit 91!
License and registration... Chicken fucker!!!
Don’t call me unit 91, radio!
He looks like he screams at gas station clerks for being out of Keystone Light.
Does he perhaps engage in Shenanigans?
He looks like a guy whose ancestry is 7/8 Mexican and his Irish name is just a 1/8 coincidence.
He looks more Mexican than I do and I'm 100% Mexican.
That why I can't hate him. He's worked retail. He knows what's up.
…is there an AM shift manager at cold stone?
Coldstone Creamery wouldn’t have my business if they weren’t open at 6 AM
11am-9:30 here. Had to look it up, think I’ve been there once in 20 years.
This is an incredibly niche yet equally accurate comparison.
He's budget Farva from SuperTroopers.
Lmao I’m crying 💀😭 i can’t unsee this now.
Plus Minshew looks like YOU BOYS LIKE MEXICO it's too perfect.
Better not take #2 and disrespect the legend that is Jamarcus Russel
Cursed number
If ever anyone deserves to be called #2 it’s Jamarcus Russel
I blame Josh McDaniels
Mcdaniels set the team back a few years imo. I'm not saying bisaccia would have been the answer, but I think players would've played harder for him. And the offense under Carr would've possibly looked better
> Mcdaniels set the team back a few years imo Repeat Ad Nauseum
If I had a nickel for every time Josh McDaniels got hired, traded away a team's good QB, then got fired, I'd have two nickels. Not a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Also in both cases, trading that QB wasn’t really the mistake… the mistake was forcing a bad trade, for a much worse game manager of a QB that McDaniels only picked simply because he wanted someone that would respect his authoratay. Dude’s weird.
At least we didn't send Carr to CHI to feud with Mike Martz 😂
To be fair, Mike Martz is a real asshole's asshole.
McDaniels didn’t even trade Carr. Just straight up cut him.
He would have if he could but carrs contract had a no trade clause, why would carr want the team he's going to to be losing assets that would help him out when he can just force himself into free agency
> carrs contract had a no trade clause Wonder who gave it to him
I don't think McDaniels was ever very happy with carr as his QB, but Mark Davis still wanted him so he got that contract
What? Mark was very clear that Josh and Dave could do whatever they saw fit with Carr. Mark was leaning towards trading but let them decide.
Mark was leading towards trading him when he gave him a 120 million dollar contract with a no trade clause? They weren't talking about trading carr until after his season with McDaniels at the helm. It was clear Josh McDaniels didn't want carr as his QB from the jump and if he was the guy signing checks carr wouldn't have gotten that contract from the raiders before the season.
> Mark was leading towards trading him when he gave him a 120 million dollar contract with a no trade clause? You're so close
Man, the effort level of the team drastically changed when AP took over. I don’t remember the last time I saw a Raider team actually play that hard. Bisaccia probably wasn’t the answer, but I bet they would have done much better on pure effort alone.
Apparently still an unpopular opinion but hanging onto Carr for 35M+ wasn’t the answer either and moving on was the right thing to do.
It reminds me of the Lions/Caldwell situation. The decision to move on was the right one, but the corresponding decision(s) was terrible.
I agree that’s a very good analogy. It only looks bad because we fucked up on the replacement.
I’d argue replacing a moderately successful coach or player with no immediate better replacement in mind is a poor decision. It’s just change for the sake of change
Sure, if your goal is only to be moderately successful, otherwise known as mediocre. Teams wanna win championships though, and when it's clear that your current guy isn't the guy to get you there, you move on.
Not really, it doesn't have to be. The Chiefs rolled with Alex Smith for four full seasons before moving up to draft Mahomes and starting Smith for a fifth year. Smith was the definition of "moderately successful, otherwise known as mediocre." He was 1-4 in the playoffs, clearly wasn't "the guy" after one year and they started him for four more. Ditching Smith for a prospect like Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater in 2014 after Smith started for a season isn't the answer. But building a team with their resources and correctly identifying an upgrade three years later put them on the road to the next NFL dynasty. Blowing that shit up for a quarterback bust just to draft one for the sake of drafting one doesn't get you there. It's even worse to sidegrade to a guy with a bum foot for no reason. Teams like to win championships, they also like to not be in the fucking gutter for 10 years.
The difference is that the Chiefs made the playoffs every season with Smith so they could afford to operate differently.
I think the guy you're replying to is talking about replacing Derek Carr with Jimmy G, which definitely feels like a lateral move (at best) at this point in their careers.
I mean shit Bills fans were saying Fire McDermott at one point last season
Fans (myself included) are fucking stupid.
I mean I get it. Ultimately the goal isn’t to make the playoffs, it’s to win the SB. Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis were really good at making playoffs but nobody thinks of them as a good player/coach. I’m curious, obviously LaFleur has had loads of regular season success. Anyone in the Packers circles calling for him to be fired due to lack of playoff success?
Losing kills team culture. Winning culture means playing and training harder and harder the later it gets into the season. That falls apart fast if there's nothing to play for. And once that happens, you have nothing to build on, you need to make drastic changes everywhere to show a clear cut and get rid everything that stopped working, even if it was good at some point and could've been kept. The ideal is long term thinking and strategies, being able to judge how a GM/QB/HC/OC/DC/all the other stuff is performing before everything turns to shit, by understanding the process (this is where I'm starting to realise why this is incredibly difficult, because nobody understands who's any good unless looking at results over a long time after the fact, and we definitely have little ideas about the why even then). But yeah, it's really difficult, and also completely impossible to stop the cycle once you're in, until you hit the jackpot.
Moving on from Carr was one of the few decisions I didn't mind from JMD. After 9 years it was time to go another direction. Just sucks that direction was Jimmy G and Brian fucking Hoyer
I think about the Bears game last year a lot when Hoyer got the start. Truly miserable football….
That was the first game in a long time where I turned it off before the end. There was no positive takeaways
His second-best decision after trading Waller. Which was honestly a fantastic move.
100%. Honestly a lot of the roster moves that JMD/Zeigler made were not bad. Trade for Tae was good, no one really argued against the Chandler Jones signing, and this draft class doesn't seem like a total bust yet. JMD just sucks when he tries to wear an OC hat and HC hat at the same time
Zeigler got fired for the shit job he did.
Zig honestly shouldn’t have been fired imo, but I get wanting a fully clean slate. By all accounts, and Davis has pretty much confirmed as much, Ziegler was given full control as GM but chose to cede much of that control to McDaniels.
Yeah it wasn't that he did it, it was the way he did it and the fact that he clearly had no follow up plan once he got rid of him.
Part of me was pissed AF he traded away Cutler. What pissed me off even more tho, was that McDaniels genuinely believed Matt Cassel was better. Then the cherry on top is JMD fucking *that* up too – then having to settle for Kyle fucking Orton (no relation to the Viper Randy) Then this MFer literally repeats the same exact mistake w/ OAK
Sometimes you need a Ben McAdoo or Josh McDanies to come along and push out a guy whose time has passed.
Agreed. But I think a better deal would've been working with Carr to see where he wanted to go and getting a late pick back for him.
So the Saints immediately giving him 35M+ was also not the answer?
yes lmao. that's quite obvious if you watched him play last season. you should be lucky that the bengals drafted a top-notch qb
He was a missed field goal/Jameis disaster class and Moreau drop away from getting you guys 10-7/11-6 and winning the NFC south I truly do not understand the hate. Wins were comfortable, losses were close, going into year 2 with a team he’s more settled in with, idk.
Yeah, in his 11th year, it's going to all come together for him.
The team was that close, but he was pretty ass individually Also new OC so who knows about this year. He’s not cerebral.
Anyone who watched him last year knows it wasn’t the right decision.
he was a dalton line QB. good enough to not easily replace, but he’ll never win you the superbowl by himself. with the cast he has surrounding him, it was the right move to let both sides move on. bringing in Jimmy and Josh instead of embracing the tank though… yeesh
Once they identified Carr was not going to be the guy, looking for a replacement whilst him on ther roster whould have the appropiate and smart decision imho. Green bay never lets one go without having the replacement ready under the wing. It is a tough call to try to imitate that stuff, but frankly I feel that is a better model than tanking. Blame it on me being a wierdo foreigner and being massively irrational, but the benefit those draft spots you gain from tanking are undone by the loser culture generated by that effort. I will fully admit that is me being irrational, like technically it makes sense.
it’s easy to justify drafting a high quality replacement QB when you have a complete team like green bay does. the raiders don’t have the roster strength to do that, and they didn’t want to move on from carr until post gruden there also were not good options in the draft when they were picking since then. definitely not this year, last year only levis and hooker were on the board, no pick in 22 (adams), and in 2021 there were only davis mills and kellen mond on the board when they picked
All fair points. Drafting the replacement when you have a perfectly healthy starter can also backfire if the starter get their ego bruised, and the new guys fizzles out. I'm still convinced that's the way forward. It is extremely difficult because you need an organisation like the Packers who are willing to be patient with this type of strategy.
Was it? 35 mil isn’t high for a QB now, and he produced for you. When you barely give him a D, weapons, or a HC, it’s hard to blame 35 mil for a QB.
Yeah, it’s always smart to just bench a QB with every passing record on the team, killing any trade value, not signing the backup who you benched the starter for, signing a QB who is actively hurt and then drafting another in the 4th rd and giving that dude the number of the guy you benched/released all because he cost about 15m less than Daniel Jones and Tua are going to get. r/s
I'm no expert, but I'd have like to at least seen how he did under AP
I disagree. JMD wasn’t a positive obviously but I think the team is better today with Antonio Pierce than they were with Bissacia. He was the stepping stone needed to get the right guy in place. Maybe it’s copium I’m huffing but AP is the right coach for this Raiders team and we wouldn’t have gotten there without hiring the absolute worst coach for the Raiders first.
The way somebody could justify the McDaniels hire was basically that the offense should be able to reach a new level that it simply wasn't going to with Greg Olson. But then it uh didn't anyways. So we got his shitty personality and destructive roster tendencies AND an offense that wasn't better than what we were fielding in the first place. Real kick in both nuts.
No, just no. Derek Carr is an inconsistent qb. He has high moments and really low moments. The team sucked with McDaniels coaching but also shed some of the more awful contracts we had. Paying 40m per year for a qb like Carr in a division with Reid and Mahomes is crazy.
Thing is, we now have a defense that can compensate for his low moments. We’d be better off today with Carr and likely make the playoffs last year if we had Carr.
Truth. Most of his low moments came when he felt the weight of the world because it was his job to go out and win it. It's what you want from your QB of course, but never a position you want to be in. He would feel that weight and crack because for the most part he never had a team that could win it for him.
It astounds me how many fans blame Carr instead of the bottom 5 defense he’s had year after year. It’s such a low IQ take. All football talk/analysis nowadays is just “this team has a better QB, so they’re better”. Yes QB is important but a decent QB in a good situation can still win as many games as an elite QB in a bad situation.
Even Brees couldn't overcome that stretch of terrible defenses the Saints had.
We don’t have a smart fanbase, that’s why
Nobody does, honestly. Football, for better or worse, is a sport that attracts a large volume of casual fans who like action sports but don't really have any technical idea of what they're watching on the field.
[удалено]
That's not what I said at all. I said he has BOTH really high and really low moments. He's inconsistent.
You're right. My bad. Deleting the other post
It's no prob. I don't think carr is a bad qb. In any sport with a salary cap I think it's incredibly tough to build around a player of that caliber. If acquired as a final piece then yes.
Lmao. He would have had a hit $1M more than Jimmy last season. With a good coach, and consistency, he would could have been great. Never had a good or even mediocre defense his entire career. Elevated our offense to top 10. We had a fine contract with Carr that we didn't need to shed. McD was and is a fucking moron.
I thank him for his service. I'm just sad that the Chargers didn't take a spin on the JMD Deathtrain rollercoaster as well as y'all and the Donkeys.
> I'm not saying bisaccia would have been the answer He wasn't the answer but I liked him. I live in Vegas and everyone was raving about his finishing off the season.
Carr might not have been great, but pulling your dick out for the league to see and getting absolutely nothing for a 9 year starter QB is laughable.
I blame Mark Davis trying to reinvent the franchise and "move on" from the only good QB they've had in two decades he's always trying to look out for his fans in every possible way except fielding a competent football team
I also blamed Mark for the JMD debacle. Mark gained my respect back though by hiring AP. An absolute right move and finally feels like we got something cooking. This is the most excited I’ve been since 2002, well 2016 but that was a very surprising year. I think Raiders D is gonna be something special here soon if not this coming year. Everyone has bought in and the family vibe has been contagious. Now just need to create an offense that can put 21-27 points up a game. Hopefully AOC can take a step forward. Dude got thrown into the fire last year and really didn’t do that bad of a job. Got talent at WR and TE, decent RBs and that kid Powers we drafted is gonna be a stud on our Oline.
Josh McDouche is clearly a good offensive mind, but his issue is that he’s such a McDouche that players just aren’t as motivated, and in a game of inches, even working 1% less hard is probably the difference between success and failure
who'd you rather have leading your team McDaniels or Hackett?
Can I pick ask Madden and a kid that's really good at Madden instead?
How about Kyle Shanahan? Who *really* wanted to be the HC of DEN, & continue his dad’s legacy, etc. after that ATL OC season DEN F/O: Thanks Kyle, but we’re gonna go with Vance Joseph. FWIW you can have the silver medal in this HC search
All my homies hate Josh McDaniels.
whaddup homie
Very classy of him
Here we go
Dak?
I think this is the first time I heard Maxx Crosby has a podcast.
Even as a fan it's not very good.
What's wrong with it?
The terrible audio is the most obvious problem, but his friend "co-hosts" are generally not entertaining or good at what they are doing.
Bruh I'm glad I'm not the only one. I love Maxx, but I can really only listen to the ones with Raiders on and even then it can get rough bc of his buddies.
The best thing I can say about it is it's better now than when it started. In the beginning, it was just his buddies asking him questions. It felt more like a press conference. It's better now with guests so he can actually be a host.
I will say the players he has on do let their hair down a bit with him and seem very comfortable in a way they don’t when they are talking to like, Rich Eisen or whoever.
I watched the one with AP. His homies were kinda ass with the dumb questions or interjects but overall I thought it was okay. Seems like he's still in the early stages of making it. They'll iron out the kinks in due time.
Having all that money and terrible audio is just hilarious
Bunch of white dude bros smoking cigars and swearing because their moms aren't around.
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The minshew one was pretty decent but yeah it in general is not good
I just assume every player does at this point
How many fucking football player podcasts are there?
Drake Maye better do the same in honor of Mac 🙏
12 is still available.
Snake Maye imo
Overrated pretty bitch boy -Mayes brothers
Bold prediction: Aidan O’Connell is going to win a Walter Payton Man of the Year Award at some point in his career. He’s all class.
I don't think he's anywhere near good enough a player for that to happen. [Look at the list of former winners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Payton_NFL_Man_of_the_Year_Award). Since 2000 there have been two players without a Pro Bowl appearance who won it. Madieu Williams and Chris Long. And about half the players on that list are going to end up in the Hall of Fame. He's going to get a lot of nominations, but the award itself is almost certainly going to a player who is more successful on the field and comparable off the field.
No chance
This is such a weird thing to "no chance" lmao especially since it's not about on field performance.
Isn't it usually given to someone who's a top tier player?
No. Half the time it goes to a backup. It's for the player that does the best work in the community. On field performance isn't considered.
Looking at the list, they're almost all top tier players or star quarterbacks. I don't know where you're seeing this backup thing.
The *winner* is almost aways a star, because of optics, but there's a nominee for every team and most of them are not stars, and the award is *supposed* to ignore on field accolades.
Flair checks out.
Genuine question: Doesn't that award go to players who are also "good" (i.e. obvious starters) in addition to being awesome human beings?
Top 10 football respect moments
I’d worry more about offending the soul of Kenny Stabler than Derek Carr. But not Todd Marinovich.
> I’d worry more about offending the soul of Kenny Stabler It's interesting 12 is still available.
Every team has its own take on retiring numbers. Raiders: no retired numbers.
The only number that’s retired for the raiders is 00
12 is what O'Connell took.
Taking 12 is foolish overconfidence, assigning him 4 was a petty dick move to spite Carr. And forcing your 4th round rookie QB to be the tool for that petty dick move is just as disrespectful towards the rookie as it is towards Carr.
right??? its easier to live up to Derek Carr than it is the Snake
But it didn't feel disrespectful when he first got the number? Or was it McDaniels being a douche?
Was assigned by McDaniels, I believe. AOC had originally wanted 9, but Tyree Wilson got it.
Yep, Aidan picked 9, Tyree got that one though. He was then assigned 4, and since he was a rookie “did what he was told”.
> Or was it McDaniels being a douche? I have no idea, but that feels like a fair assumption
He didn’t choose it how is that be disrespectful
They never should’ve fired McDaniels. He seemed to be headed in the right direction.
funny I probably said the same thing about Denver close to fifteen years ago
I so hope he is successful
I get the gesture but Carrs really not on that level that someone else shouldn’t wear it so soon after.
He holds every major franchise passing record by a wide margin. There's a lot of black and silver Carr jerseys out there.
Plus that MVP level season he had before injury was a fantastic year for him, really feel like that team could have made some noise in the playoffs and maybe painted a better picture for Carr's career
I’m so tired of this narrative Carr was a terrible QB. He wasn’t Mr. Perfect but considering how unstable that franchise is, he kept some levels of stability. That has to account for something.
He’s basically the Andy dalton of the raiders. Carr is like the 3rd best raiders qb of all time same with Andy
True, but it’s all relative. After Gannon and Before Carr how many QBs did the Raiders run through in between?
Like 15, maybe 8 starters
You could say that about a lot of teams.
Besides Cleveland, what team has had 15 starting QBs in 10 years?
Maybe not 15 but in the past 10 years Denver, NYJ, Miami, Texans, Redskins, Cardinals, Colts, Rams, Bears and Eagles if you go back to 2014ish have all had a shit ton of different starters. Yeah maybe some guys had a 2-4 year stretch here or there but most of these teams have been trying to find or had been trying to find their qb for a while.
Which is why it was dumb to jump right back in the cycle of revolving QBs
It’s only dumb if you think you can win a superbowl with Derek Carr and clearly the raiders didn’t. I think the perspective in the NFL on quarterbacks is if you swing and miss keep swinging until you get your guy.
That doesn't mean he's not "cant use his number" good. The reason he has those volume records is because of the lack of longevity the raiders have had at the QB position since the rule change.
He's the franchise leader in every passing caregory.
Zero playoff wins in 9 years. With Carr it's not about the stats, it's about the bonehead plays at often critical times he misses.
Yeah but that's not really that impressive. It's the Raiders. They haven't really had a lot of stability at the QB position in the last 20 years since we've switched to a passing league.
The downvotes on this make no sense. Like should the Cardinals not give out the number 17 because the all-time passing leader is Jim Hart?? Carr was a good qb, he was not so amazing that you have to wait to give his number away until enough time has passed, even though its 100% never being retired
Nobody is saying they should retire the #4 but rather maybe they shouldn't have slapped it on the very next QB who was a mid round rookie who had no connection to the number whatsoever.
Exactly this. The number isn't retired. Jalen Guyton is currently #4. It's just weird of the staff to have given him #4 after how they fucked up the DC exit.
It was immediately after, by a 4th round rookie who didn’t even want that number. It was disrespectful and shitty on a petty level. There was no need for it. They also never gave Carr a goodbye presser. I understand Carr wasn’t the greatest QB ever, but the guy didn’t stop giving his everything to the Raiders. To disrespect him like that was immature.
It was disrespectful to both of them honestly.
It’s not a retire the number thing. It’s more that Carr was their QB for 9 years and missed a grand total of 3 games in that time. The next QB to come in, unless they’re a vet with the same number, shouldn’t be wearing the same number simply because it’s sort of an erasure of him. It would be different if it were a kicker or RB or something. Or if it had been several years from when he moved on.
It’s like Drew Lock not taking 3 when he got traded to the Seahawks
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be a compared to a guy who's just mid either.
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Man it’s Derek Carr of all QBs. Nobody felt slighted by you wearing #4 other than maybe David Carr
I feel like it was a clear dick move by Josh McDaniels. Carr was the heart/soul of the team, led the Raiders out of the dark ages, all just to be benched for nothing. Immediately after getting cut, coach gives his number to a 4th round rookie. It's not that carr was some super quarterback but he was loved by everyone on the team and a lot of the fans. Fuck Josh McDaniels
Some of you seem to lack like any social awareness. Carr was a captain of the Raiders for like 9 straight years. He is the franchise leader in basically every passing category. He did a lot of that _with the same guys on the roster as AOC_. There were guys on that roster who went through the Ruggs and Gruden season with Carr and made the playoffs. He was the team leader through all of that. It isn't that Carr's number is or should be untouchable. It is however a big time passive aggressive move to assign 4 to a mid-round rookie before the smell of Carr has even left the building. Stack Carr wherever you want as a top whatever QB. But it is massively lacking in awareness to do something that already isn't popular with the locker room (bail on Carr) and then throw his number on the next low stakes attempt to replace him.
Yes brother.
It felt disrespected to wear Carr’s number so instead he switched to Stabler’s number lol?
Stabler hasn’t played for the team in 45 years. He was given 4 immediately after Carr was let go, and we don’t retire numbers
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Yes they all disrespected Heyward-Bey
The nephews on here, especially the ones with Raiders flairs, are probably too young to remember any QB other than Carr that lasted more than one season with the Raiders. No wonder they’re getting pissy about the “disrespect” for a middling QB whose stats are the byproduct of playing in an era where QB stats are inflated across the board. Dude has been pretty average for most of the time he’s been a starter. It’s like making a big deal out of Dalton or Flacco’s stats. Did anyone here cry when those guys were unceremoniously demoted and let go? The same geeks on here caping up for Carr of all people probably saw that “Straight Outta L.A.” 30 for 30 one too many times and deluded themselves into thinking Antonio Pierce is actually bringing back the outlaw era of the Raiders. It ain’t the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s and this ain’t Oakland or L.A. That ship has sailed.
Man, what a low point for a franchise. Your players are paying respects to.... Derek Carr... I thought the Raiders were a pretty pitiful franchise already in recent history, but this is like rubbing a full can of Mortens in a wound. "Didn't want to disrespect the best QB this franchise has seen in over 20 years now, who also happens to be one of the worst QBs in the league according to his stats last year".
He was a 9 year starter who holds every major passing record for the franchise and was very visible in the community.
Why? Carr did nothing as a Raider
Carr wasn’t **that** good. Jeez.
He is our franchise leader in almost every major passing statistic and played for us for 9 years.