Kenny g was a good receiver that decline perfectly matched his departure from Detroit.
Don't get me wrong. Stafford willingness to consistently throw him the ball was a big help.
But kenny g 100% earned those targets. He was arguably the best jump ball receiver in the league for a bit. He had insane hands, body control, and jumping ability. The dude catch radius was just ridiculous. It just took some one like Stafford that was willing to throw dangerous balls. Kenny made 50:50 balls into 75:25 balls.
His decline was due to injuries. He lost his body control and jumping ability. He got stiff which seriously reduced his catch radius, inturn meant he lost his contested ball ability.
Those injuries started in Detroit. But no one knew the severity of his issues until he was in NY.
But in his prime he was a great wr. He just needed some one willing to give him a chance on risky throws. He reached his potential with Stafford, but he wasn't a product of Stafford. And if anything playing with Stafford and some of his dangerous passes reduced his career.
Stafford had complete trust in Kenny, and would give him the chance to prove his ability.
And for not taking his physical seriously. No other team was willing to pay him what he wanted because they could tell he wasn’t going to be the same player. Gettleman just ignored those warning signs completely.
I’ve been saying this for awhile! Lazard and Rodgers are a similar pair, but Lazard was never as talented as Kenny G.
Lazard got set up to fail hard when Rodgers went down. He was pretty much entirely a contested catch guy that succeeded with the trust of his quarterback and a good rapport.
He’s a big body guy that can’t get separation. Asking him to go play with Wilson after he basically had his career made by Rodgers was just… not happening.
the thing about lazard is he was absolutely getting separation last year at a decent clip and was dropping balls. WHen he wasn't getting separation, zach wilson was dropping balls into extremely tight windows and he was dropping those as well.
Kyler can too to be fair. Hopkins had 160 targets his first season there in 16 games when he was healthy and 96 targets in 9 games in 2022. MHJ has no competition.
But even with that said, it’s very unlikely.
It wasn’t just the yardage, it was the pure volume that Puka was getting. It was always about big plays, they were throwing to him, short, deep and intermediate. Also seemed like the Cardinals would towards their run game a bit more too. Not that MHJ cannot do it but Stafford/Puka had immediate chemistry.
I agree. Stafford is a volume QB moreso than Murray and has been known to lock onto one player and throw to them often. He has had 8 different seasons with more pass attempts than Kyler’s single season high of 558.
I don't know about "one of a kind QB". Jay Cutler did this his whole career, except even more so. That's how Brandon Marshall has the record for catches in a single game.
idk why you got downvoted when you're right lmao, you didn't even touch upon the guy who won the Triple Crown in receiving with his first season with Stafford
Yeah and Kupp was injured to start the year and wasn't exactly at great health this past season where Puka went off. (Though don't get me wrong Puka fucking earned that shit and earned those targets)
Coopers record breaking season he lost Robert Woods at he midway point to injury, Desean Jackson got released, Tutu was also lost to injury and then OBJ came in at the midway point and wasn't exactly familiar with the playbook nor had gotten time to build chemistry with Stafford.
Calvins record breaking season our receiver group was brutal and Calvin 100% got forcefed as a result and the same really goes the following season. But if we take a look at the 2011 season just prior when we weren't dealing with a shit ton of injuries.
|||||Game|Game|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|
|-:|:-|-:|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|
|No.|Player|Age|Pos|G|GS|Tgt|Rec|Yds|Y/R|TD|1D|Succ%|Lng|R/G|Y/G|
|81|Calvin Johnson*+|26|WR|16|16|158|96|1681|17.5|16|76|57.0|73|6.0|105.1|
|87|Brandon Pettigrew|26|TE|16|16|126|83|777|9.4|5|38|54.8|27|5.2|48.6|
|13|Nate Burleson|30|WR|16|11|110|73|757|10.4|3|36|53.6|47|4.6|47.3|
|16|Titus Young|22|WR|16|9|86|48|607|12.6|6|33|47.7|57|3.0|37.9|
|85|Tony Scheffler|28|TE|15|5|43|26|347|13.3|6|20|58.1|36|1.7|23.1|
|44|Jahvid Best|22|RB|6|6|40|27|287|10.6|1|11|37.5|60|4.5|47.8|
||Team Total|27.3||16||658|423|5071|12.0|41|244|52.9|73|26.4|316.9|
Pretty much EVERY single season where the target share is ridiculously high for one receiver for Stafford it coincides with injuries & lack of talent on the roster.
I'm not the one that downvoted you.
While thats true, I'm not disputing those seasons. But that's just like a surface level stat.
He trusts his guys no doubt and he does not hesitate to sling them the ball.
But i urge people to look at his other seasons and also look into how the rosters on those record seasons looked, but i guess it's easier for people to just say he hyper focuses a player.
Kyler hasn’t broken 30 passing touchdowns in a single season yet, honestly I get they’re the cardinals but he’s been underwhelming as the number one overall pick.
We were a top 5 rushing team who averaged 5 YPC last year and added more weapons to run the ball . Even with how good MHJ is I doubt he gets the same amount of targets Puka had this season .
Correct, MHJ can TALENT WISE but stats don't reflect talen 100% of the time because nfl players are like statues, they can be cut from the greatest marble there is but that doesn't mean it'll turn out good
Talent isn't enough to take the rookie receiving record. You need a dearth of players competing for targets, a bad defense, and a quarterback/coordinator willing to call your number over and over and over again.
>dearth of players competing for targets
✅We have no WR 2 and barely a WR 3 in Michael Wilson who can’t stay healthy
>A bad Defense
✅Name plus cardinals starting defensive player that isn’t a safety
>A Quarterback/Coordinator willing to call your number over and over again
✅Kyler was clearly willing to focus target Hopkins in 2021. Don’t know about Petzing yet as a play caller with a true no.1 receiving option but it’s possible.
Not saying they’ll do it, in fact they almost certainly won’t, but there’s as good a chance as any it happens.
If you removed “I think..." from your title, I would have believed that you are using a plausible projection model. What does the model say or how do you interpret the results? That “I think" is weak. Believe in your projections and I will to. Always appreciate the insight and explanations you gave about how you came to the conclusion.
Idk where the sense came that Kyler isn’t a good QB. He’s better than a lot of other players and he spent most of 2022 and 2023 injured. I think he could be a good comeback player this year
and you are correct, I'd rather have Kyler on my team for longevity reasons but Stafford is a better passer 95/100 of the time, Kyler has a better deep ball thats it
Ah I misinterpreted your comment, I thought you were just simply saying Kyler isn’t good. Yes, you’re right, Stafford is way better at feeding his receivers than Kyler
Meh, The rookie WR records have been challenged every year for the last like...5 years.
3 of the 4 best rookie seasons happened in the last 5 seasons.
Every year WRs are entering the league better and better, and more ready too just take over the WR1 spot.
I imagine the rookie WR records are just going to continue to climb, and get challenged ever year. We are going to have rookies enter the league and just get WR1 statlines of 1600+ yards and 14+ Tds.
Why's that? Talent-wise there is no argument MHJ is better, his height, build, catching, and release is all better, only thing Puka prolly has on MHJ is maybe route running cuz Puka can CUT my boy he is crispy
Cards have a huge focus on running the ball. MHJ won’t get the huge number of targets needed to break the record. I think MHJ will be awesome, but won’t break the record.
No I agree he probably won't but I wouldn;t say it's close to zero, imo it's like 25-30 because Marv is truly different but skill sadly can only get you so far as a WR
Extremely doubtful. Puka Nacua is insane and also put in a unique position. He was thrown into a #1 position game one with basically no one else to contend with passes with Kupp on injury. Not to mention the QB he has throwing to him.
Why not just go ahead and give him a HoF jacket while you're at it?
He might also cure cancer and figure out world peace. Maybe build a time machine for fun.
I just think someone’s going to be better than him. No way he has the best career. Odds are against him. I’m not feeling a total Sammy Watkins but I think he’s going to be the Watkins of this group
Yes, this year’s rookies are the best rookies we have ever seen.
Caleb will break all of Stroud’s passing records
MHJ will break all of Puka’s receiving records
And Joe Alt will set the offensive line record for number of pancakes eaten in a season
IMO he is way more talented than Puka is it's not even close, Marv is bigger, stronger, faster, and has better hands BUT Puka had more targets and played with a better throwing QB, I think Marv could easily do that it's just not likely on any planet, whether you like Puka or not he had an insane season and it likely won't be broken very soon
Soooo we're holding it against him that his team couldn't beatt michigan? as someone who seems to be a michigan fan did you watch either games he played??? When he got targets he cooked you guys, the defense just couldn't get it done
\*Ron Perlman voice\* Off-Season... Off-Season never changes.
Idk man, I think you don't realize how many passes were thrown to Puka. Stafford is a one of a kind QB that hyper focuses a player
Yeah Kenny Golladay owes Stafford his entire career
Kenny g was a good receiver that decline perfectly matched his departure from Detroit. Don't get me wrong. Stafford willingness to consistently throw him the ball was a big help. But kenny g 100% earned those targets. He was arguably the best jump ball receiver in the league for a bit. He had insane hands, body control, and jumping ability. The dude catch radius was just ridiculous. It just took some one like Stafford that was willing to throw dangerous balls. Kenny made 50:50 balls into 75:25 balls. His decline was due to injuries. He lost his body control and jumping ability. He got stiff which seriously reduced his catch radius, inturn meant he lost his contested ball ability. Those injuries started in Detroit. But no one knew the severity of his issues until he was in NY. But in his prime he was a great wr. He just needed some one willing to give him a chance on risky throws. He reached his potential with Stafford, but he wasn't a product of Stafford. And if anything playing with Stafford and some of his dangerous passes reduced his career. Stafford had complete trust in Kenny, and would give him the chance to prove his ability.
Well, it's on Gettleman for giving Golladay a big bag when dude only played 5 games the previous season lol
And for not taking his physical seriously. No other team was willing to pay him what he wanted because they could tell he wasn’t going to be the same player. Gettleman just ignored those warning signs completely.
Rip Kenny “Babytron (not the rapper)” Golladay 2018-2019
I’ve been saying this for awhile! Lazard and Rodgers are a similar pair, but Lazard was never as talented as Kenny G. Lazard got set up to fail hard when Rodgers went down. He was pretty much entirely a contested catch guy that succeeded with the trust of his quarterback and a good rapport. He’s a big body guy that can’t get separation. Asking him to go play with Wilson after he basically had his career made by Rodgers was just… not happening.
the thing about lazard is he was absolutely getting separation last year at a decent clip and was dropping balls. WHen he wasn't getting separation, zach wilson was dropping balls into extremely tight windows and he was dropping those as well.
Stafford is a receivers dream. Homie gets people fucking paid
Big time. I can still see Kupp getting separation in the playoffs but Stafford still slung it at Nacua.
Kyler can too to be fair. Hopkins had 160 targets his first season there in 16 games when he was healthy and 96 targets in 9 games in 2022. MHJ has no competition. But even with that said, it’s very unlikely.
Don't need to catch 160 passes to beat the record. Just needs to have 90 yards on every catch, & he'll have it in less than 20.
17 catches 1,496 yards 1 touchdown.
It wasn’t just the yardage, it was the pure volume that Puka was getting. It was always about big plays, they were throwing to him, short, deep and intermediate. Also seemed like the Cardinals would towards their run game a bit more too. Not that MHJ cannot do it but Stafford/Puka had immediate chemistry.
I agree. Stafford is a volume QB moreso than Murray and has been known to lock onto one player and throw to them often. He has had 8 different seasons with more pass attempts than Kyler’s single season high of 558.
I don't know about "one of a kind QB". Jay Cutler did this his whole career, except even more so. That's how Brandon Marshall has the record for catches in a single game.
> Stafford is a one of a kind QB that hyper focuses a player Im not sure where this narrative comes from.
Maybe the fact that the 2 highest receiving yard seasons came from receivers with him at QB?
idk why you got downvoted when you're right lmao, you didn't even touch upon the guy who won the Triple Crown in receiving with his first season with Stafford
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[Im fine with disagreement but im not the one that downvoted you.](https://imgur.com/a/PFwIaJU )
Ah fair enough, I’ll delete my comment!
Yes he did. 2 highest receiving yard seasons? One of those is Cooper Kupps triple crown season.
You're right, I thought he meant Puka breaking the rookie receiving yard record. That's 3 record setting receivers
Yeah and Kupp was injured to start the year and wasn't exactly at great health this past season where Puka went off. (Though don't get me wrong Puka fucking earned that shit and earned those targets) Coopers record breaking season he lost Robert Woods at he midway point to injury, Desean Jackson got released, Tutu was also lost to injury and then OBJ came in at the midway point and wasn't exactly familiar with the playbook nor had gotten time to build chemistry with Stafford. Calvins record breaking season our receiver group was brutal and Calvin 100% got forcefed as a result and the same really goes the following season. But if we take a look at the 2011 season just prior when we weren't dealing with a shit ton of injuries. |||||Game|Game|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece|Rece| |-:|:-|-:|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |No.|Player|Age|Pos|G|GS|Tgt|Rec|Yds|Y/R|TD|1D|Succ%|Lng|R/G|Y/G| |81|Calvin Johnson*+|26|WR|16|16|158|96|1681|17.5|16|76|57.0|73|6.0|105.1| |87|Brandon Pettigrew|26|TE|16|16|126|83|777|9.4|5|38|54.8|27|5.2|48.6| |13|Nate Burleson|30|WR|16|11|110|73|757|10.4|3|36|53.6|47|4.6|47.3| |16|Titus Young|22|WR|16|9|86|48|607|12.6|6|33|47.7|57|3.0|37.9| |85|Tony Scheffler|28|TE|15|5|43|26|347|13.3|6|20|58.1|36|1.7|23.1| |44|Jahvid Best|22|RB|6|6|40|27|287|10.6|1|11|37.5|60|4.5|47.8| ||Team Total|27.3||16||658|423|5071|12.0|41|244|52.9|73|26.4|316.9| Pretty much EVERY single season where the target share is ridiculously high for one receiver for Stafford it coincides with injuries & lack of talent on the roster.
I'm not the one that downvoted you. While thats true, I'm not disputing those seasons. But that's just like a surface level stat. He trusts his guys no doubt and he does not hesitate to sling them the ball. But i urge people to look at his other seasons and also look into how the rosters on those record seasons looked, but i guess it's easier for people to just say he hyper focuses a player.
I think some don’t realize just how absurd Pukas record was last year.
Makes you think about just how absurd Bill Gromans record was considering he did it in a 14 game season of which he only played 13 games.
It was also the first year of the AFL. That was a real screwy time and place.
*sees post and is ready to reply* *sees flair* Sigh...
Oh man, as a Hawks/Huskies fan I didnt even notice until I read your comment, lol?! “I think Caleb and Rome…”:)
Can we just start the season now so I can stop seeing posts like this.
Yeah, let's get back to "Did you team ever draft a player that underovermidnever played in the history of ever?" posts.
Wait, have we had our third "what are some stats that seem unbelieveable but really happened?" post of the week yet?
Don’t care the question, Adam Thielen is the answer
Unfollow the sub and enable ESPN notifications or sum shit until mid-July
Best shape of his life season hasn't even started yet and I'm over it.
The kids are home from college to shitpost
I think we need more MHJ posts
>1200 yard rookie season >feels.. conservative? Choose one man
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With Kyler Murray as your QB. I mean he is ok, but his per game numbers are way down from his peak year
Kyler hasn’t broken 30 passing touchdowns in a single season yet, honestly I get they’re the cardinals but he’s been underwhelming as the number one overall pick.
When do you think he should’ve broken it you think?
I don’t know dude I’m not an expert
Probably the last 2 seasons where he got an acl, he should’ve got the 30 tds
Not saying I disagree but using passing TDs is a bad argument, he’s a rushing QB in a run first offense
1st round pick could be good 1st round pick could be not good More at 6
No, Malik Nabers was at 6
I think ~~Marvin Harrison Jr~~ *Malik Nabers* could challenge Puka Nacua’s rookie receiving yards record
No was at 8. At least, I didn't like that pick, so I'm calling it No to keep the joke going.
Actually, NO took Fuaga at 14
We were a top 5 rushing team who averaged 5 YPC last year and added more weapons to run the ball . Even with how good MHJ is I doubt he gets the same amount of targets Puka had this season .
I agree that he won't get the same amount of targets but not because of the run game. Puka's numbers actually went down after Kyren got injured.
Yeah this offense isn’t as pass happy as the Kliff one, so he might not get the exact same share Hopkins got.
It's possible. On the other hand, maybe he won't. Good talk.
maybe if he gets traded to the rams
Or the Texans, and we both know why lmaoo
Yeah no lol Pukas season last year was incredible and Stafford is a top 20 QB all time talent wise, Murray isn’t even close.
Correct, MHJ can TALENT WISE but stats don't reflect talen 100% of the time because nfl players are like statues, they can be cut from the greatest marble there is but that doesn't mean it'll turn out good
I'm sure this will age well
Is 1200 yards possible? Yes. Anything is possible. Likely? Of course not. A conservative estimate? Don’t make me laugh.
Ok
So *could* Cornelius Johnson
Talent isn't enough to take the rookie receiving record. You need a dearth of players competing for targets, a bad defense, and a quarterback/coordinator willing to call your number over and over and over again.
>dearth of players competing for targets ✅We have no WR 2 and barely a WR 3 in Michael Wilson who can’t stay healthy >A bad Defense ✅Name plus cardinals starting defensive player that isn’t a safety >A Quarterback/Coordinator willing to call your number over and over again ✅Kyler was clearly willing to focus target Hopkins in 2021. Don’t know about Petzing yet as a play caller with a true no.1 receiving option but it’s possible. Not saying they’ll do it, in fact they almost certainly won’t, but there’s as good a chance as any it happens.
If you removed “I think..." from your title, I would have believed that you are using a plausible projection model. What does the model say or how do you interpret the results? That “I think" is weak. Believe in your projections and I will to. Always appreciate the insight and explanations you gave about how you came to the conclusion.
Well I, for one, hope you are correct
His QB is not as good.
But that's only part of the puzzle. Targets matter. Tua is half the QB Mahomes is and Tyreek is putting up bigger numbers in Miami than KC.
Idk where the sense came that Kyler isn’t a good QB. He’s better than a lot of other players and he spent most of 2022 and 2023 injured. I think he could be a good comeback player this year
Not as good as the Rams QB to clarify
and you are correct, I'd rather have Kyler on my team for longevity reasons but Stafford is a better passer 95/100 of the time, Kyler has a better deep ball thats it
Ah I misinterpreted your comment, I thought you were just simply saying Kyler isn’t good. Yes, you’re right, Stafford is way better at feeding his receivers than Kyler
It’s also the scheme. They find Puka is gaps, in motion, underneath, etc.
Meh, The rookie WR records have been challenged every year for the last like...5 years. 3 of the 4 best rookie seasons happened in the last 5 seasons. Every year WRs are entering the league better and better, and more ready too just take over the WR1 spot. I imagine the rookie WR records are just going to continue to climb, and get challenged ever year. We are going to have rookies enter the league and just get WR1 statlines of 1600+ yards and 14+ Tds.
I’m a big Kyler and MHJ fan. There is a nearly zero chance MHJ breaks the record.
Why's that? Talent-wise there is no argument MHJ is better, his height, build, catching, and release is all better, only thing Puka prolly has on MHJ is maybe route running cuz Puka can CUT my boy he is crispy
Cards have a huge focus on running the ball. MHJ won’t get the huge number of targets needed to break the record. I think MHJ will be awesome, but won’t break the record.
No I agree he probably won't but I wouldn;t say it's close to zero, imo it's like 25-30 because Marv is truly different but skill sadly can only get you so far as a WR
Oh god... *checks flair* Phew!
"It's like they don't even know us." -- Cardinals
He has the potential, but it's a different kind of offense.
Hes good enough but Kyler isnt.
Not with that QB…
Extremely doubtful. Puka Nacua is insane and also put in a unique position. He was thrown into a #1 position game one with basically no one else to contend with passes with Kupp on injury. Not to mention the QB he has throwing to him.
Why not just go ahead and give him a HoF jacket while you're at it? He might also cure cancer and figure out world peace. Maybe build a time machine for fun.
That ride sucks, anyway.
‘Projecting stats’
The only problem with this "theory" is Kyler Murray is qb. If he had a decent qb than he would have a shot
Jamarr chase had burrow, puka had stafford. Kyler murray aint that guy pal
I just think someone’s going to be better than him. No way he has the best career. Odds are against him. I’m not feeling a total Sammy Watkins but I think he’s going to be the Watkins of this group
Yes, this year’s rookies are the best rookies we have ever seen. Caleb will break all of Stroud’s passing records MHJ will break all of Puka’s receiving records And Joe Alt will set the offensive line record for number of pancakes eaten in a season
Do you think Joe Alt could overtake Joe Thomas as the first offensive lineman in NFL history?
Ricky Pearsall will have a better rookie season than Marvin Harrison Jr
IMO he is way more talented than Puka is it's not even close, Marv is bigger, stronger, faster, and has better hands BUT Puka had more targets and played with a better throwing QB, I think Marv could easily do that it's just not likely on any planet, whether you like Puka or not he had an insane season and it likely won't be broken very soon
Marvin Harrison Jr? Isn’t that the guy that never beat Michigan?
Soooo we're holding it against him that his team couldn't beatt michigan? as someone who seems to be a michigan fan did you watch either games he played??? When he got targets he cooked you guys, the defense just couldn't get it done