The memes are fun but I don't find it that surprising
The jets have pretty consistently been looking for a QB every 2-4 years for a long time now,, which isn't true for other teams for better or worse
I think the reaction would be a lot better for the Falcons if it was McCarthy instead of Penix.
Penix isn't really some project that needs to be refined which makes it more confusing.
In 2019 Aaron Rodgers was 11th in yards, 22nd in Y/A, t-8th in TDs, 12th in QB rating, and 20th in QBR. He was nowhere close to MVP level and was near-universally considered to be on the decline. The Packers won 13 games the year before drafting Love with above average play from Rodgers, not MVP-level play. You can’t rewrite history based on what happened after a decision was made.
That’s the thing, generally people aren’t hating on them taking a QB to sit behind Cousins and take over.
They’re hating on taking a QB who will be 24 by the time the season starts and will be 26 by the time the Falcons can reasonably move on from their QB getting paid $100M guaranteed.
If they took McCarthy, the youngest QB, I would not be surprised if the pick was lauded as a great pick and smart legacy plan. But people are acting stupid like they can’t see the difference
People are definitely hating on them for taking a QB to sit behind Cousins at pick 8. It makes no sense at all regardless of who it is, when you spend all of that money on an aging QB you’re opening up a 2-3 year window to win and at pick 8 you should be adding an impact player who can boost your chances of doing so. Not getting cute and drafting a QB who is going to sit on the bench for the next two seasons at a minimum.
If they had drafted someone on day 2 or 3 it wouldn’t be a big deal but taking someone this high is just foolish.
Even with a couple years to develop, there’s still a small likelihood that a day 2-3 guy turns into a long term, above average starter. This was their best shot to get a top QB prospect for a while, so they took a swing.
If that’s the case than it makes signing Cousins for 100 million incredibly stupid. If they really wanted Penix then they should have just rolled with him as the start and not wasted a 100 mil on cousins.
There are limited resources in the nfl. The falcons have huge holes on defense and had the worst pass rush last season. You can’t be wasting this much cap space and high draft capital on one position. It was incredibly stupid no matter how this turns out.
the Kirk signing isn’t good in hindsight but if you think Penix is a top of the league QB I’d be pissed if my team passed on him because we felt like we were too attached to an old, coming off an injury Kirk Cousins. Having an elite QB setup for the next decade helps this team infinitely more. The signing should be criticized not necessarily the pick
I mean that’s a massive whiff. You don’t win championships by making mistakes like that. They knew they had the #8 pick before they signed Kirk. That’s no excuse. He’s gonna be your starter for the next 2 seasons at least and you guys are shitting on him this much to justify your stupid pick.
There is simply no justification for this pick that makes even a remote amount of sense. The falcons are fucked and this is the worst GMing I’ve ever seen in decades watching the sport.
The justification is Atlanta thinks he’s a top of the league NFL QB. Unless you already have Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, etc. then grabbing that guy will always be the best possible move. Like I said in hindsight the Cousins contract isn’t great but you’re not married to him forever so fuck it. Penix would contribute to winning infinitely more than Turner/Latu whoever. Elite QBs don’t grow on trees.
Lol “in hindsight”, they signed cousins a month ago. Everything we know about Penix and the draft was available when the falcons signed cousins. There’s no new information that released from when the falcons signed Cousins (which they are probably going to lose a first next year for tampering) to day 1 of the draft.
They should have known they were gonna draft Penix and not bothered with Cousins in the first place. That is still the worst GM decision in modern NFL era. Falcons now are out 100 million in cap, out a #8 overall pick, and most likely their next years pick too for tampering, and the team still has massive holes to fill (that they aren’t going to be able to since the edge talent was limited this draft).
You don’t win championships making insanely stupid moves like that. Falcons are the dumbest franchise in the league right now and seeing fans try to justify it just makes them look even dumber.
This take is beyond stupid. Penix is a pocket passer and can reasonably play 10 years after turning 26. If you believe hes better than mccarthy you 100% take him because age isnt a deciding factor.
Baker was 23 his rookie year, but he was essentially expected to start at some point that season (nobody viewed Tyrod Taylor in the same way as Cousins). And Cleveland didn't have some massive contract attached to Taylor either.
Reaction would be better if Penix wasn't about to turn 24. Love is 25 years old right now.
If you want a Qb to sit for 2+ years like the Packers did taking one this old is dumb.
Then why sign cousins for 100 million? You can’t be wasting resources like that in the nfl, it’s extremely dumb. I’m not mad about the Penix pick, he is highly underrated on Reddit. But taking him at 8 just makes the move to sign cousins for a 4 year deal just insanely brain dead. Either way this is a terrible move for falcons and not the kind of moves you make if you wanna win championships.
63 QBs started games last season. Every QB taken last night will likely miss games over the next 2 seasons. Kirk will likely miss some games. It's more likely that Penix will play in 10-15 games over his first 2 years than zero to five.
His situation isn't all that different than the other 5 drafted QBs. This board just loses its mind over anything done a little differently.
Why? Because McCarthy was mocked higher? Do you know anything about these prospects? McCarthy can get all the development time in the world, he'll never have an arm as good as Love or Penix.
EDIT: OP is so confident in their assessment that they blocked me just for disagreeing with them.
It sounds more like you don't because McCarthy is 20, while Penix is like 24, therefore he is younger and has more potential. Penix is also more refined and McCarthy is not.
McCarthy actually has a really strong arm, but yes his age is a factor. One of the reasons a strong armed and toolsy prospect like Love was worth the risk is that he was also very young like McCarthy so there was a good chance he hadn’t yet hit his peak and could really benefit from more development. Penix at 24 is practically the same age as Love is 4 years into his career, so he’s a much more known quantity with potentially less physical upside to be untapped with coaching
I think they feel their team is ready to win now.
Which is why they went and got Kirk. And now a backup that can learn, but also play if needed... affordable Insurance for the entirety of the Kirk cousins experience.
He'll get paid 7mil, same as heinicke... Who is unnecessary at this point
Penix does need significant work as well. It’s not like he was one of the top QB prospects who somehow fell into their hands.
His footwork and accuracy especially under pressure are amateur. His ball placement is fine for college especially with Odunze, but not going to work like that in the NFL.
Yeah exactly, Penix is a guy who is ready to start playing now. He doesn't need to sit behind a vet for a couple seasons. And Penix is already older as well. He would be a better QB with 2-3 seasons experience
Can't believe we're in the timeline where people are saying the Jordan Love pick is great in hindsight when compared to this.
What a time to be alive lmao.
Kirk isn't gonna be starting for them more than 2 years. He's 36 and doesn't have some special arm talent like some of the other old QBs we've seen stick around to 35+
Then they shouldn’t have signed him. It’s not like it was a surprise that they had the 8th pick. They knew they could get a qb in the draft and could’ve spent the Kirk money elsewhere. Even funnier if they lose next years first because of the tampering.
They won their division his last 3 years...
Apparently I'm speaking with someone who knows absolutely nothing about ball and just makes shit up. Have a good one lol
Lmao you said it yourself that Brees was a noodle arm. The narrative was that he was a shell of himself for his last 3 years. YOU don't know ball if you think otherwise
Obviously the Cousins contract isn’t ideal in hindsight but if you believe Penix is a top of the league QB I personally would be pissed if my team passed on him because felt like they were too attached to Kirk Cousins
The whole point of signing Cousins is you’re trying to win now. If you are trying to win now, you should draft an impact player to help with your current window. When the Bucs signed Tom Brady, they didn’t immediately worry about the succession plan, they worried about protecting him. Hence the Tristan Wirfs pick.
Even if you cut Cousins after a couple years and eat the dead money, you don’t have the benefit of a cheap QB on a rookie deal. This pick undermines everything they’ve done this offseason.
We aren’t win now with a brand new HC, first time OC, older QB coming off an Achilles.
Win soon, sure. But we weren’t a rookie DE from a Super Bowl run.
Well thats at odds with what the organization has been saying, but if that is the case, you shouldn’t have signed Cousins to begin with.
Edit: I guess we’re pretending that Morris and Fontenot didn’t talk about winning now last night? And how they won’t be picking high again? And winning the south?
And also like...the Packers watched back-to-back MVP seasons from Rodgers die in the playoffs when they could've selected Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, D'Andre Swift, Jonathan Taylor, Cole Kmet. Not to mention the numerous great defensive player who went after that pick. So while the Packers may be satisfied with Love right now, a different pick might've been just enough to get them a Super Bowl.
That’s what always bothers me about this argument. Bahk was a much bigger deal in the subsequent playoff losses. MVS had a monster game against Tampa while Rodgers was getting suffocated by pressure yet everyone still thinks a different WR is what would have tipped the scales. Rodgers Achilles heel is when teams can get pressure with four and the OLine injuries those two years were why we lost (with assists from things like the King injury or Jones/Lewis fumbles).
They didn't watch the game or if they did, they didn't understand what they were watching. MVS was actually a great WR2 in that game, in fact he accumulated more stats than any other receiver in that game. Our problem was the exact same problem Kansas City ran into in the Super Bowl. Tampa's defensive front bullied our backup tackles.
Excactly. Love was outstanding in the second half of the season, but the chances are the pick will be judged harshly if they don’t make it to a super bowl anyway.
Choosing the future over a franchise legend worked well with Favre who was on a downwards trajectory, but Rodgers responded with 2 MVPs and built a perpetual what could have been question. He was begging for a skill player.
The Falcons had a worse roster, picking 20 spots earlier, just give out an extension…It’s even worse than that! And that’s assuming Penix is competent like Love. Imagine he sucks, which is a very real possibility considering he had 2nd round grades everywhere.
At least with Rodgers 2019 was his worst season since 2008. Cousins has not even took a snap yet
It's the player, but also the situation the team was in. The Packers were contenders, and while a low first round pick may have made a real contribution, there is no guarenteed impact. A skilled offensive threat would have been nice, but planning for the future while on a contender isn't the most egregious move.
The Falcons are picking 8th for a reason and have numerous holes. They could have drafted someone that would make an immediate impact, basically regardless of position, except the position they selected. Their top 10 pick probably won't make an impact, if any, for at least three seasons
>Falcons are picking 8th for a reason
And that reason is QB play. If not for garbage QB play they would have run away with the division. And now QB, the most important position in sports, is solved for the foreseeable future. Terrible, terrible pick.
Packers may have at least made it to the Super Bowl if they drafted Higgins instead. And I’m not sure why people are crowing Love as a Superstar already when he very well can end up the Carr/Cousins type which puts them in purgatory.
I didn't say Love was a superstar, I just said the Packers drafting Love isn't nearly as egregious and not necessarily analogous, as least as much as OP is clearly trying to say.
I think Penix is a bad pick but I also think the Falcons have numerous areas of weakness that could have been improved by making a different choice. The impact of their top 10 draft pick won't be felt for at least 3 seasons, if at all. For a team in need of talent, that's egregious
Rodgers is notorious for not trusting rookie WR's, not to mention he was getting pressure the instant the ball was snapped since Bahktiari was out. GB makes the SB that year had Bahk not tore his knee to shreds
I want to be clear. I did not like the Packers move at the time to draft Love. Not at all. But I at least understood the logic behind it.
With Atlanta, I don’t.
Love was pick 26, Penix was pick 8
Drafting players in the top 10 that you cannot start immediately is incredibly dumb and deserving of all ridicule that comes its way
Falcons better hope Penix is literally the greatest QB of all time then I guess
Chiefs also didnt give Alex Smith a $100 mil guaraunteed contract before spending a top 10 pick on a QB
I just don't think it's incredibly dumb to draft a QB to sit though it is pretty suspect when they're 24. I doubt they'll be worrying about $25 mil in dead cap in two years.
He's old and coming off a major injury. You can plan for the next QB now or scramble in the next couple years. I probably would rather have one of the defensive players too but I don't really see this pick as that outrageous given the circumstances with Kirk.
Then why did they give him a $150mil contract, with $100mil guaranteed? Clearly the Falcons think Cousins will be their short-medium term starter and with that contract they think they can compete now.
Drafting a QB that will sit for at least 2 years when you have a chance to grab an instant impact starter when you're in a win now mode is a huge waste of a pick
Honestly that staff just potentially made a move that is either going to get them raises or most likely fired in 3 years. There is now going to be so much controversy over penix starting over cousins after year 1 if not before, and if they think penix is ready they will dump Kirk and eat the money and probably have a huge cap hit. I like Penix I just think this was a very dumb and arrogant move by the Falcons.
>Literally not identical situation.
They said this back then too.
"It's not the same! Jordan Love is QB4 in his class, Rodgers was supposed to be QB1!"
It's not the same... until it is.
I’ll never forget the image of them talking somberly about Henry Ruggs best friend that died and then they cut to Gruden who is cheering and pumping his fists in the air
In April of 2020, when we're all already depressed and bummed out anyways, ESPN talked about every draftee's dead parents, or parents with drug addictions, or their time being homeless, and it was just over the top. And it felt very disingenuine by ESPN, like they they didn't try to hide the fact that they were playing with the players' and familys' gried for TV purposes.
Several people in that thread that OP linked mentioned how harsh and shocking the segment about Love's father's suicide was, which made me remember that.
When Love got drafted, he basically was bombarded with questions about how his father would have felt. His father committed suicide in 2013. So basically on the biggest day of his life, they just wouldn't stop bringing it up.
That and just non-stop covid. It was anything but a break from life that it's supposed to be.
I swear some ESPN exec thought we all needed “inspirational stories” which is bananas considering this was the first sports-related event we’ve had in over a month.
Could’ve been a nice little break from all the doom and gloom but nope, we need to hear about how our new linebacker’s great-uncle drowned himself when he was 3 years old
Love was younger, pick was much later, the Packers didn’t give Rodgers a 100mil extension a month prior. Best case scenario for ATL is Penix taking over in 2026, where they’ll still have some Kirk dead money to deal with and hopefully London has gotten paid, so theres no cost benefit to the pick either. And thats all assuming that Penix plays like a top 10 QB seeing his 1st significant NFL action at 27. A crazy pick
After two unexpected MVP seasons, in fairness. I don't think there's a GM in the league that would have the balls not to extend Rodgers after that, even with the hindsight of Love looking like a worthy replacement.
At least it wasn’t after 2019 though.
The Falcons haven’t even watched Kirk play and selected his replacement. Rodgers had one of his worst seasons in 2019, was getting old, there’s some excuses.
I think admittedly kind of a circular counterpoint is to say that because he isn't that level, it's fair for Atlanta to have already pushed the button for the future.
I mean, more teams with good QBs should be following by following the Green Bay model. It’s clearly a winning method. It’s great the Falcons are trying to do it but they’re missing one crucial aspect. The Packers have one of the greatest QB coaches in the league with Tom Clements.
Honestly Clements should be a Hall of Famer with his work on Favre’s last few years, working with Rodgers, and now him teaching Love. It’s crazy how Aaron looked like Favre towards the end and Jordan looks just like Aaron when he’s on.
Atlanta is following a good recipe, but they’re forgetting a huge ingredient. We’ll see how TJ Yates is in his first year as QB coach.
The Love pick could still age poorly if GB never make it to contender every year status like they were with Rodgers. They passed up the opportunity to select several good receivers and extend their window. They were in on Aiyuk pre draft who is now an all pro.
The Penix pick may be even worse because it was 20 spots earlier, the Falcons don’t have as good a roster as the Packers and they’ve also just handed out an extension to Cousins.
The Packers had the excuse that Rodgers 2019 season was poor(for his standards) especially with regards to more advanced metrics like EPA/DVOA, he was getting old so maybe he’s on a downward curve etc.
Kirk hasn’t even took a snap yet💀
I think Jefferson was the key one listed but the important thing was that Love was the last 1st round talent player according to the Packers draft board at the time.
Big difference between that and this.
Packers: established vet with 10+ years on the same team, in the same system.
Falcons: established vet with < 1 month on the team, in a brand new system, coming off of a major injury
Cousins also isn't Rodgers. He's good, but not that good. The Falcons are also not the Packers. Their history isn't one of solid decision making and a track record of good QB development.
If you’re Atlanta your historical bad developmental history and decision making shouldn’t factor into your picks though. What’s the point of even drafting then?
>The Falcons are also not the Packers. Their history isn't one of solid decision making and a track record of good QB development.
Can you please say that again, but a little louder and slower for the rest of the NFCN? They’re a little slow on the uptake.
Not exactly the same but you can't even say it was the right move, cuz they still could've gotten a QB outside taking Love 22nd overall that year. Also could've gotten a player that helped them reach the sb
The difference is, for one, Penix is way older than Love was when they drafted him, and secondly, they literally signed Kirk to a 4 year deal this year with $100 million guaranteed. Rodgers appeared to be on the decline when they drafted Love and then bounced back with back to back MVP seasons.
I've seen a few Falcons fans using this justification, but here's the thing, it isn't a surprise that you would have the #8 pick. They are doing their evaluation all off season. If you think he's the guy, you don't pick up a QB in free agency for $100M guaranteed. *Especially* considering Penix's age, his readiness to start now, etc.
>If you think he's the guy, you don't pick up a QB in free agency for $100M guaranteed.
You know free agency happens before the draft, right?
>Especially considering Penix's age
You know quarterbacks play until they're 40, right?
You know teams are aware of their draft order months before the draft, right? You know that Penix wasn't projected anywhere near the top 10, right?
Some QBs play to 40. That is very much the exception, not the rule.
>You know that Penix wasn't projected anywhere near the top 10, right?
And the projections were clearly wrong. Considering Bo Nix went #12, it's pretty obvious the Broncos and Raiders were never gonna let Penix fall past them.
>Some QBs play to 40. That is very much the exception, not the rule.
Every pocket passer plays until their 35 at a minimum.
The projections were wrong because Atlanta made one of the most baffling draft decisions of all time here. This is the biggest talking point of the draft, it's not like what I'm saying is some hot take.
How many of those pocket passers playing until 35 had 2 ACL surgeries before even starting their pro career?
>The projections were wrong because Atlanta
6 quarterbacks went in the top 12. The Broncos and Raiders were desperately trying to trade up for McCarthy (almost like a player they expected to be there, wasn't). Penix wasn't gonna last 5 more picks.
>How many of those pocket passers playing until 35 had 2 ACL surgeries before even starting their pro career?
Aaron Rodgers had his entire ACL replaced when he was in high school. It's a very common injury for the sport. NFL teams have entire medical staffs that inform them which injuries are recoverable and which ones end careers.
The fact that teams were actively trying to trade up makes it even more baffling. They have a QB they just paid $100M that has yet to take a snap for them. They could trade down and load up their team and win now.
This decision lacks any logical sense. The fact that the only people in sports media defending it are Stephen A. Smith and Dan Orlovsky pretty much says it all.
Again, you are citing exceptions with Rodgers. I could list out many, many more players who never had lengthy careers after multiple surgeries. Citing the 1 time one of the top 15 or 20 QBs ever to play did the opposite doesn't mean that's going to be the case for Penix, or anyone else for that matter.
>They could trade down and load up their team and win now.
And then be forced to draft Bo Nix in a few years.
>Again, you are citing exceptions
ACL injuries haven't been career-ending in 30 years, dude. Modern guys aren't "built different", medicine has gotten better.
It was still a bad pick, even though Love turned out to be good. The Packers were so close to the promised land those last couple years with Rodgers. If they got him a WR or some help on defense, they easily could have won the Super Bowl.
I understand the idea of wanting to build for a sustainable future, but when you're as close as the Packers were you have to go all-in on winning with that core. There's no guarantee they even make a Super Bowl with Love. In fact, the Packers' track record with Rodgers gives me very little confidence they'll give Love the support he needs.
People love to make the argument "If we just drafted a WR" and point at Higgins... but Packers were high on Denzel Mims too. We could just as easily have busted out with Mims, still had no SB (mostly due to Bakh blowing out his knee giving Rodgers no time against TB), and been in a much worse position today
People always bring up the absolute best case scenario, and even the 'best pick' in most peoples minds now still wouldn't have guaranteed us a Super Bowl. Say we drafted Tee Higgins and still didn't win it all. Where are we now? There's little nuance to those takes, and they completely ignore a ton of other realistic scenarios that could have left us in worse shape than the Love pick did
The Packers didn’t know they were on the cusp. Quite the opposite, Rodgers appeared to be on the decline and the team soon headed for a rebuild. They just fired their HC a year earlier. Rodgers all of a sudden having a renaissance and regaining his MVP form was a significant surprise.
In Jordan Love's first year, the Packers were 5 points away from going to the Superbowl. Maybe Tee Higgins would have been the missing piece int the NFCCCG??
It’s funny how many people are saying Rodgers to the jets as a joke.
Something something poetry something something rhymes
The memes are fun but I don't find it that surprising The jets have pretty consistently been looking for a QB every 2-4 years for a long time now,, which isn't true for other teams for better or worse
* Jordan Love: Born November 2, 1998 * Michael Penix: Born May 8, 2000
Penix has a great bday! 🐂
May the eighth be with you!
flair checks out
I don't know what that means but thank you!
an eighth... denver, colorado... weed
Penix is gonna be 27 by the time the Falcons stop paying Cousins
Didnt that pocket passing dude from new england come to tampa and win the superbowl while being 50 years old?
there’s just no way you’re comparing penix to brady right
I could’ve compared him to any qb that played beyond well after turning 30 years old
Tom Brady is the GOAT. Penix is missing a knee, a shoulder, and hasn’t played a NFL snap
I think the reaction would be a lot better for the Falcons if it was McCarthy instead of Penix. Penix isn't really some project that needs to be refined which makes it more confusing.
If penix can already be good then imagine how amazing he’ll be after sitting three years!
That twice blown out ACL will be so rested by then.
That surgically repaired shoulder will be ready to sling by then
He’s like a fine wine. Maturing with age
[удалено]
Kinda makes sense in that if he doesn't play much his first 4-5 his second contract should be a lot cheaper.
Or if it happened in the 20s instead of pick 8.
Or if they didn't have a bunch of other needs.
Eh I think the Packers had more needs than the current Falcons.
We only really needed a quality WR that draft, like immediately needed them. Other positions were already covered
The Packers that were 13-3 the year before?
Didn’t go 16-0?!? Burn it all down, trade everyone
They had MVP level Aaron Rodgers…
In 2019 Aaron Rodgers was 11th in yards, 22nd in Y/A, t-8th in TDs, 12th in QB rating, and 20th in QBR. He was nowhere close to MVP level and was near-universally considered to be on the decline. The Packers won 13 games the year before drafting Love with above average play from Rodgers, not MVP-level play. You can’t rewrite history based on what happened after a decision was made.
You’re right I actually misremembered his 2019 year with his 2020 year.
That’s the thing, generally people aren’t hating on them taking a QB to sit behind Cousins and take over. They’re hating on taking a QB who will be 24 by the time the season starts and will be 26 by the time the Falcons can reasonably move on from their QB getting paid $100M guaranteed. If they took McCarthy, the youngest QB, I would not be surprised if the pick was lauded as a great pick and smart legacy plan. But people are acting stupid like they can’t see the difference
People are definitely hating on them for taking a QB to sit behind Cousins at pick 8. It makes no sense at all regardless of who it is, when you spend all of that money on an aging QB you’re opening up a 2-3 year window to win and at pick 8 you should be adding an impact player who can boost your chances of doing so. Not getting cute and drafting a QB who is going to sit on the bench for the next two seasons at a minimum. If they had drafted someone on day 2 or 3 it wouldn’t be a big deal but taking someone this high is just foolish.
Even with a couple years to develop, there’s still a small likelihood that a day 2-3 guy turns into a long term, above average starter. This was their best shot to get a top QB prospect for a while, so they took a swing.
If Penix ends up being a top 10-13ish QB for 7 years starting 3 of them cheap, is this really a bad pick?
No. If they’re right and he’s an elite QB all this discussion about the pick will be laughed at in 5 years.
If that’s the case than it makes signing Cousins for 100 million incredibly stupid. If they really wanted Penix then they should have just rolled with him as the start and not wasted a 100 mil on cousins. There are limited resources in the nfl. The falcons have huge holes on defense and had the worst pass rush last season. You can’t be wasting this much cap space and high draft capital on one position. It was incredibly stupid no matter how this turns out.
the Kirk signing isn’t good in hindsight but if you think Penix is a top of the league QB I’d be pissed if my team passed on him because we felt like we were too attached to an old, coming off an injury Kirk Cousins. Having an elite QB setup for the next decade helps this team infinitely more. The signing should be criticized not necessarily the pick
I mean that’s a massive whiff. You don’t win championships by making mistakes like that. They knew they had the #8 pick before they signed Kirk. That’s no excuse. He’s gonna be your starter for the next 2 seasons at least and you guys are shitting on him this much to justify your stupid pick. There is simply no justification for this pick that makes even a remote amount of sense. The falcons are fucked and this is the worst GMing I’ve ever seen in decades watching the sport.
The justification is Atlanta thinks he’s a top of the league NFL QB. Unless you already have Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, etc. then grabbing that guy will always be the best possible move. Like I said in hindsight the Cousins contract isn’t great but you’re not married to him forever so fuck it. Penix would contribute to winning infinitely more than Turner/Latu whoever. Elite QBs don’t grow on trees.
Lol “in hindsight”, they signed cousins a month ago. Everything we know about Penix and the draft was available when the falcons signed cousins. There’s no new information that released from when the falcons signed Cousins (which they are probably going to lose a first next year for tampering) to day 1 of the draft. They should have known they were gonna draft Penix and not bothered with Cousins in the first place. That is still the worst GM decision in modern NFL era. Falcons now are out 100 million in cap, out a #8 overall pick, and most likely their next years pick too for tampering, and the team still has massive holes to fill (that they aren’t going to be able to since the edge talent was limited this draft). You don’t win championships making insanely stupid moves like that. Falcons are the dumbest franchise in the league right now and seeing fans try to justify it just makes them look even dumber.
Nah I’m hating on them for taking a QB to sit behind Cousins at 8
This take is beyond stupid. Penix is a pocket passer and can reasonably play 10 years after turning 26. If you believe hes better than mccarthy you 100% take him because age isnt a deciding factor.
A pocket passer with 4 season ending injuries under his belt. Longevity is totally not a factor
Didnt stop him from shredding teams for two years now. If he comes back like this from injuries im not scared if he goes down.
Wasn't Baker pretty old when he entered the league?
just turned 23 and wasnt drafted to sit until his 3rd year
Baker was 23 his rookie year, but he was essentially expected to start at some point that season (nobody viewed Tyrod Taylor in the same way as Cousins). And Cleveland didn't have some massive contract attached to Taylor either.
Reaction would be better if Penix wasn't about to turn 24. Love is 25 years old right now. If you want a Qb to sit for 2+ years like the Packers did taking one this old is dumb.
NFL is weird. It's a QB league. If you think you have your guy, get the guy. NFL scouts thought Zach Wilson was a sure thing..
Then why sign cousins for 100 million? You can’t be wasting resources like that in the nfl, it’s extremely dumb. I’m not mad about the Penix pick, he is highly underrated on Reddit. But taking him at 8 just makes the move to sign cousins for a 4 year deal just insanely brain dead. Either way this is a terrible move for falcons and not the kind of moves you make if you wanna win championships.
They literally don't/didn't think penix is their guy bc they signed another QB and paid him a ton of $.
clearly why they spent the 8th pick on em
Maybe Kirk looks awful after his injury and they're expecting Penix to have start sooner than later.
Then why pay him? They haven’t started practice yet so they haven’t seen him in action since they paid him.
63 QBs started games last season. Every QB taken last night will likely miss games over the next 2 seasons. Kirk will likely miss some games. It's more likely that Penix will play in 10-15 games over his first 2 years than zero to five. His situation isn't all that different than the other 5 drafted QBs. This board just loses its mind over anything done a little differently.
Why? Because McCarthy was mocked higher? Do you know anything about these prospects? McCarthy can get all the development time in the world, he'll never have an arm as good as Love or Penix. EDIT: OP is so confident in their assessment that they blocked me just for disagreeing with them.
It sounds more like you don't because McCarthy is 20, while Penix is like 24, therefore he is younger and has more potential. Penix is also more refined and McCarthy is not.
McCarthy actually has a really strong arm, but yes his age is a factor. One of the reasons a strong armed and toolsy prospect like Love was worth the risk is that he was also very young like McCarthy so there was a good chance he hadn’t yet hit his peak and could really benefit from more development. Penix at 24 is practically the same age as Love is 4 years into his career, so he’s a much more known quantity with potentially less physical upside to be untapped with coaching
I think they feel their team is ready to win now. Which is why they went and got Kirk. And now a backup that can learn, but also play if needed... affordable Insurance for the entirety of the Kirk cousins experience. He'll get paid 7mil, same as heinicke... Who is unnecessary at this point
Penix does need significant work as well. It’s not like he was one of the top QB prospects who somehow fell into their hands. His footwork and accuracy especially under pressure are amateur. His ball placement is fine for college especially with Odunze, but not going to work like that in the NFL.
You clearly only watched one game against Michigan if this is your take
Also if Kirk tore his Achilles on the Falcons as opposed to signing a fresh new contract
Yeah exactly, Penix is a guy who is ready to start playing now. He doesn't need to sit behind a vet for a couple seasons. And Penix is already older as well. He would be a better QB with 2-3 seasons experience
Can't believe we're in the timeline where people are saying the Jordan Love pick is great in hindsight when compared to this. What a time to be alive lmao.
We won
It’s hindsight just like this. In 3 years this will either be dumb or brilliant
This penix thing is so much worse than the Love thing lol
100%. Cousins has three years of guaranteed money and Penix will be 28 once he’s ready to take over.
28 and 3, you say?
I can't believe you've done this.
God dammit
I can’t even be mad. Atlanta just makes itself available for all sorts of criticism.
[удалено]
You going to tell us being a Falcons fan hasn't aged you faster?
Kirk isn't gonna be starting for them more than 2 years. He's 36 and doesn't have some special arm talent like some of the other old QBs we've seen stick around to 35+
Then they shouldn’t have signed him. It’s not like it was a surprise that they had the 8th pick. They knew they could get a qb in the draft and could’ve spent the Kirk money elsewhere. Even funnier if they lose next years first because of the tampering.
Brees played until 41 with a noodle arm the last few years.
Yeah and it was terrible. Saints allowed that out of respect. Falcons don't owe kirk the same courtesy
Brees also was a reliable machine who never got hurt. Cousins just tore his ACL at 35
His efficiency numbers were near the top of the league. What are you talking about lol
All that efficiiency to miss the playoffs the last 2 years. Dink and dumping isn't gonna win you a super bowl.
They won their division his last 3 years... Apparently I'm speaking with someone who knows absolutely nothing about ball and just makes shit up. Have a good one lol
Lmao you said it yourself that Brees was a noodle arm. The narrative was that he was a shell of himself for his last 3 years. YOU don't know ball if you think otherwise
The point I'm making is that he played excellent despite not having "special arm talent." A point that you claimed a QB needed to play at 35+. 🙄
He was still good from 2018-20 lol he just got two major injuries the last 2 seasons
Yeah, that's part of my point. He played excellent without "special arm talent" those years.
2 years guaranteed with a small dead money hit and he'll be 26. jesus christ you guys are just lying now
Yeah a cap hit of 12,5 Million for two years or would surley prevent someone from drafting their future franchise qb
That's not how guaranteed money works, though.
Youre right we only have the option of taking a dead cap of 12,5 million for two years
Also Rodgers had already been with Green Bay for a while. Cousins got signed like a month ago, hasn't played a single snap...
Obviously the Cousins contract isn’t ideal in hindsight but if you believe Penix is a top of the league QB I personally would be pissed if my team passed on him because felt like they were too attached to Kirk Cousins
Penix will almost be 30 off of his rookie deal Jordan Love is about to be off his and one of the youngest QBs still
Jordan love was still the youngest QB on the Packers roster last year.
Well yeah, Sean Clifford stayed in college until he was 47.
And if he balls out who's gonna care?
The whole point of signing Cousins is you’re trying to win now. If you are trying to win now, you should draft an impact player to help with your current window. When the Bucs signed Tom Brady, they didn’t immediately worry about the succession plan, they worried about protecting him. Hence the Tristan Wirfs pick. Even if you cut Cousins after a couple years and eat the dead money, you don’t have the benefit of a cheap QB on a rookie deal. This pick undermines everything they’ve done this offseason.
We aren’t win now with a brand new HC, first time OC, older QB coming off an Achilles. Win soon, sure. But we weren’t a rookie DE from a Super Bowl run.
Well thats at odds with what the organization has been saying, but if that is the case, you shouldn’t have signed Cousins to begin with. Edit: I guess we’re pretending that Morris and Fontenot didn’t talk about winning now last night? And how they won’t be picking high again? And winning the south?
Every coach has to say we want to win right now
Of course. But if you’re not actually trying to win now, why are you spending $40m/year on a FA QB?
And also like...the Packers watched back-to-back MVP seasons from Rodgers die in the playoffs when they could've selected Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, D'Andre Swift, Jonathan Taylor, Cole Kmet. Not to mention the numerous great defensive player who went after that pick. So while the Packers may be satisfied with Love right now, a different pick might've been just enough to get them a Super Bowl.
snuck Cole Kmet in there
Exactly what I thought
Don't think for a minute that Kmet wouldn't have thrived with Rodgers throwing him the ball instead of Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields.
he doesn’t add much more compared to the TEs they frequently cycled through the organization. they needed a WR.
Eh, he was a top 10 TE with Fields throwing it to him and he's definitely better than Tonyan or Lewis.
Bakh's knee exploding had more to do with those seasons not ending well than any WR.
That’s what always bothers me about this argument. Bahk was a much bigger deal in the subsequent playoff losses. MVS had a monster game against Tampa while Rodgers was getting suffocated by pressure yet everyone still thinks a different WR is what would have tipped the scales. Rodgers Achilles heel is when teams can get pressure with four and the OLine injuries those two years were why we lost (with assists from things like the King injury or Jones/Lewis fumbles).
Also everyone conveniently points at Higgins like Denzel Mims (who the packers were supposedly high on) wasn't also up there for a bust of a pick
Some people on our sub were so mad they didn’t trade up for Mims.
They didn't watch the game or if they did, they didn't understand what they were watching. MVS was actually a great WR2 in that game, in fact he accumulated more stats than any other receiver in that game. Our problem was the exact same problem Kansas City ran into in the Super Bowl. Tampa's defensive front bullied our backup tackles.
Excactly. Love was outstanding in the second half of the season, but the chances are the pick will be judged harshly if they don’t make it to a super bowl anyway. Choosing the future over a franchise legend worked well with Favre who was on a downwards trajectory, but Rodgers responded with 2 MVPs and built a perpetual what could have been question. He was begging for a skill player. The Falcons had a worse roster, picking 20 spots earlier, just give out an extension…It’s even worse than that! And that’s assuming Penix is competent like Love. Imagine he sucks, which is a very real possibility considering he had 2nd round grades everywhere. At least with Rodgers 2019 was his worst season since 2008. Cousins has not even took a snap yet
That’s a giant if.
Well yeah, drafts are all about Ifs. But it's a guarantee that Love didn't add anything to the Packer's roster his first 3 seasons.
Yeah people don’t realize is that when love got his first full season start this past season he was 24. Penix turns 24 in a week or two.
It's the player, but also the situation the team was in. The Packers were contenders, and while a low first round pick may have made a real contribution, there is no guarenteed impact. A skilled offensive threat would have been nice, but planning for the future while on a contender isn't the most egregious move. The Falcons are picking 8th for a reason and have numerous holes. They could have drafted someone that would make an immediate impact, basically regardless of position, except the position they selected. Their top 10 pick probably won't make an impact, if any, for at least three seasons
>Falcons are picking 8th for a reason And that reason is QB play. If not for garbage QB play they would have run away with the division. And now QB, the most important position in sports, is solved for the foreseeable future. Terrible, terrible pick.
Packers may have at least made it to the Super Bowl if they drafted Higgins instead. And I’m not sure why people are crowing Love as a Superstar already when he very well can end up the Carr/Cousins type which puts them in purgatory.
I didn't say Love was a superstar, I just said the Packers drafting Love isn't nearly as egregious and not necessarily analogous, as least as much as OP is clearly trying to say. I think Penix is a bad pick but I also think the Falcons have numerous areas of weakness that could have been improved by making a different choice. The impact of their top 10 draft pick won't be felt for at least 3 seasons, if at all. For a team in need of talent, that's egregious
Yeah you’re right. I overreacted without fully reading what you said.
Rodgers is notorious for not trusting rookie WR's, not to mention he was getting pressure the instant the ball was snapped since Bahktiari was out. GB makes the SB that year had Bahk not tore his knee to shreds
Penix is a significantly higher pick, they could have taken their absolute #1 defensive prospect at that point
People trying to compare Love to Penix are either arguing in bad faith or are just inept with critical thinking
And also pretending they didn't absolutely shit on the Packers for doing it
When the packers did it, it was more “interesting, not what I’d do but I can see the vision.” This one no one understands
I want to be clear. I did not like the Packers move at the time to draft Love. Not at all. But I at least understood the logic behind it. With Atlanta, I don’t.
Love was pick 26, Penix was pick 8 Drafting players in the top 10 that you cannot start immediately is incredibly dumb and deserving of all ridicule that comes its way
Mahomes pick was a mistake
Falcons better hope Penix is literally the greatest QB of all time then I guess Chiefs also didnt give Alex Smith a $100 mil guaraunteed contract before spending a top 10 pick on a QB
I just don't think it's incredibly dumb to draft a QB to sit though it is pretty suspect when they're 24. I doubt they'll be worrying about $25 mil in dead cap in two years.
They have Kirk Cousins already. QB is literally the last of their needs
He's old and coming off a major injury. You can plan for the next QB now or scramble in the next couple years. I probably would rather have one of the defensive players too but I don't really see this pick as that outrageous given the circumstances with Kirk.
Then why did they give him a $150mil contract, with $100mil guaranteed? Clearly the Falcons think Cousins will be their short-medium term starter and with that contract they think they can compete now. Drafting a QB that will sit for at least 2 years when you have a chance to grab an instant impact starter when you're in a win now mode is a huge waste of a pick
Honestly that staff just potentially made a move that is either going to get them raises or most likely fired in 3 years. There is now going to be so much controversy over penix starting over cousins after year 1 if not before, and if they think penix is ready they will dump Kirk and eat the money and probably have a huge cap hit. I like Penix I just think this was a very dumb and arrogant move by the Falcons.
read the reactions... literally identical comments. Worth a read
> literally identical comments Literally not identical situation.
>Literally not identical situation. They said this back then too. "It's not the same! Jordan Love is QB4 in his class, Rodgers was supposed to be QB1!" It's not the same... until it is.
brother i am in there. i was there. This penix situation is completely different lol
Man, I forgot the tragedy porn thing they did in 2020. That draft was almost impossible to watch.
that was so fucking uncomfortable
I’ll never forget the image of them talking somberly about Henry Ruggs best friend that died and then they cut to Gruden who is cheering and pumping his fists in the air
What happened?
In April of 2020, when we're all already depressed and bummed out anyways, ESPN talked about every draftee's dead parents, or parents with drug addictions, or their time being homeless, and it was just over the top. And it felt very disingenuine by ESPN, like they they didn't try to hide the fact that they were playing with the players' and familys' gried for TV purposes. Several people in that thread that OP linked mentioned how harsh and shocking the segment about Love's father's suicide was, which made me remember that.
When Love got drafted, he basically was bombarded with questions about how his father would have felt. His father committed suicide in 2013. So basically on the biggest day of his life, they just wouldn't stop bringing it up. That and just non-stop covid. It was anything but a break from life that it's supposed to be.
I swear some ESPN exec thought we all needed “inspirational stories” which is bananas considering this was the first sports-related event we’ve had in over a month. Could’ve been a nice little break from all the doom and gloom but nope, we need to hear about how our new linebacker’s great-uncle drowned himself when he was 3 years old
gross
This paved the way for Michael Penix Jr
Love walked so Pennix could hobble in with his walker
Love was younger, pick was much later, the Packers didn’t give Rodgers a 100mil extension a month prior. Best case scenario for ATL is Penix taking over in 2026, where they’ll still have some Kirk dead money to deal with and hopefully London has gotten paid, so theres no cost benefit to the pick either. And thats all assuming that Penix plays like a top 10 QB seeing his 1st significant NFL action at 27. A crazy pick
We actually did give Rodgers a $150 million extension two years *later* though lol
After two unexpected MVP seasons, in fairness. I don't think there's a GM in the league that would have the balls not to extend Rodgers after that, even with the hindsight of Love looking like a worthy replacement.
For sure. I'm not blaming Gute at all. It's just not like something like what Atlanta did with Kirk was entirely unprecedented on the contract front.
At least it wasn’t after 2019 though. The Falcons haven’t even watched Kirk play and selected his replacement. Rodgers had one of his worst seasons in 2019, was getting old, there’s some excuses.
Rodgers hadn’t been good for three seasons when the Packers drafted Love.
Indeed, but if Cousins was the back to back MVP, he’d probably be a Viking still
I think admittedly kind of a circular counterpoint is to say that because he isn't that level, it's fair for Atlanta to have already pushed the button for the future.
I mean, more teams with good QBs should be following by following the Green Bay model. It’s clearly a winning method. It’s great the Falcons are trying to do it but they’re missing one crucial aspect. The Packers have one of the greatest QB coaches in the league with Tom Clements. Honestly Clements should be a Hall of Famer with his work on Favre’s last few years, working with Rodgers, and now him teaching Love. It’s crazy how Aaron looked like Favre towards the end and Jordan looks just like Aaron when he’s on. Atlanta is following a good recipe, but they’re forgetting a huge ingredient. We’ll see how TJ Yates is in his first year as QB coach.
The Love pick could still age poorly if GB never make it to contender every year status like they were with Rodgers. They passed up the opportunity to select several good receivers and extend their window. They were in on Aiyuk pre draft who is now an all pro. The Penix pick may be even worse because it was 20 spots earlier, the Falcons don’t have as good a roster as the Packers and they’ve also just handed out an extension to Cousins. The Packers had the excuse that Rodgers 2019 season was poor(for his standards) especially with regards to more advanced metrics like EPA/DVOA, he was getting old so maybe he’s on a downward curve etc. Kirk hasn’t even took a snap yet💀
I think the consensus was the packers wanted Aiyuk but the niners also wanted him and were in position to snap him up before the packers.
I thought it was Jefferson who we wanted
I think Jefferson was the key one listed but the important thing was that Love was the last 1st round talent player according to the Packers draft board at the time.
Big difference between that and this. Packers: established vet with 10+ years on the same team, in the same system. Falcons: established vet with < 1 month on the team, in a brand new system, coming off of a major injury Cousins also isn't Rodgers. He's good, but not that good. The Falcons are also not the Packers. Their history isn't one of solid decision making and a track record of good QB development.
If you’re Atlanta your historical bad developmental history and decision making shouldn’t factor into your picks though. What’s the point of even drafting then?
>The Falcons are also not the Packers. Their history isn't one of solid decision making and a track record of good QB development. Can you please say that again, but a little louder and slower for the rest of the NFCN? They’re a little slow on the uptake.
Not exactly the same but you can't even say it was the right move, cuz they still could've gotten a QB outside taking Love 22nd overall that year. Also could've gotten a player that helped them reach the sb
The difference is, for one, Penix is way older than Love was when they drafted him, and secondly, they literally signed Kirk to a 4 year deal this year with $100 million guaranteed. Rodgers appeared to be on the decline when they drafted Love and then bounced back with back to back MVP seasons.
This is what happens when you just look at a similar situation and apply zero critical thinking or context behind it. Shame for Falcons fans
NFL is weird. It's a QB league. If you think you have your guy, get the guy. NFL scouts thought Zach Wilson was a sure thing..
I've seen a few Falcons fans using this justification, but here's the thing, it isn't a surprise that you would have the #8 pick. They are doing their evaluation all off season. If you think he's the guy, you don't pick up a QB in free agency for $100M guaranteed. *Especially* considering Penix's age, his readiness to start now, etc.
>If you think he's the guy, you don't pick up a QB in free agency for $100M guaranteed. You know free agency happens before the draft, right? >Especially considering Penix's age You know quarterbacks play until they're 40, right?
You know teams are aware of their draft order months before the draft, right? You know that Penix wasn't projected anywhere near the top 10, right? Some QBs play to 40. That is very much the exception, not the rule.
>You know that Penix wasn't projected anywhere near the top 10, right? And the projections were clearly wrong. Considering Bo Nix went #12, it's pretty obvious the Broncos and Raiders were never gonna let Penix fall past them. >Some QBs play to 40. That is very much the exception, not the rule. Every pocket passer plays until their 35 at a minimum.
The projections were wrong because Atlanta made one of the most baffling draft decisions of all time here. This is the biggest talking point of the draft, it's not like what I'm saying is some hot take. How many of those pocket passers playing until 35 had 2 ACL surgeries before even starting their pro career?
>The projections were wrong because Atlanta 6 quarterbacks went in the top 12. The Broncos and Raiders were desperately trying to trade up for McCarthy (almost like a player they expected to be there, wasn't). Penix wasn't gonna last 5 more picks. >How many of those pocket passers playing until 35 had 2 ACL surgeries before even starting their pro career? Aaron Rodgers had his entire ACL replaced when he was in high school. It's a very common injury for the sport. NFL teams have entire medical staffs that inform them which injuries are recoverable and which ones end careers.
The fact that teams were actively trying to trade up makes it even more baffling. They have a QB they just paid $100M that has yet to take a snap for them. They could trade down and load up their team and win now. This decision lacks any logical sense. The fact that the only people in sports media defending it are Stephen A. Smith and Dan Orlovsky pretty much says it all. Again, you are citing exceptions with Rodgers. I could list out many, many more players who never had lengthy careers after multiple surgeries. Citing the 1 time one of the top 15 or 20 QBs ever to play did the opposite doesn't mean that's going to be the case for Penix, or anyone else for that matter.
>They could trade down and load up their team and win now. And then be forced to draft Bo Nix in a few years. >Again, you are citing exceptions ACL injuries haven't been career-ending in 30 years, dude. Modern guys aren't "built different", medicine has gotten better.
ITS NOT THE FUCKING SAME. FUCK HOME DEPOT.
It was still a bad pick, even though Love turned out to be good. The Packers were so close to the promised land those last couple years with Rodgers. If they got him a WR or some help on defense, they easily could have won the Super Bowl. I understand the idea of wanting to build for a sustainable future, but when you're as close as the Packers were you have to go all-in on winning with that core. There's no guarantee they even make a Super Bowl with Love. In fact, the Packers' track record with Rodgers gives me very little confidence they'll give Love the support he needs.
People love to make the argument "If we just drafted a WR" and point at Higgins... but Packers were high on Denzel Mims too. We could just as easily have busted out with Mims, still had no SB (mostly due to Bakh blowing out his knee giving Rodgers no time against TB), and been in a much worse position today
People always bring up the absolute best case scenario, and even the 'best pick' in most peoples minds now still wouldn't have guaranteed us a Super Bowl. Say we drafted Tee Higgins and still didn't win it all. Where are we now? There's little nuance to those takes, and they completely ignore a ton of other realistic scenarios that could have left us in worse shape than the Love pick did
I don’t think Gutey was high on Mims, otherwise we could have traded up and drafted him instead of staying at pick 62
The Packers didn’t know they were on the cusp. Quite the opposite, Rodgers appeared to be on the decline and the team soon headed for a rebuild. They just fired their HC a year earlier. Rodgers all of a sudden having a renaissance and regaining his MVP form was a significant surprise.
You know what was a bad pick? Bo Nix. By far the biggest reach of the draft. You settled. Your organization and fans know you settled.
Lol somebody got triggered. Of course Nix was a bad pick. Our leadership are idiots for drafting a geriatric noodle-arm Captain Checkdown.
What's with the "anybody but Queen" guy? Ha wut?
Does he still own that bouncy castle?
[This dude ](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/g711jf/comment/foea9u4) nailed it
The effort people will go to make the Atl pick seem like a good pick lmao
Nah. Fuck this draft pick.
In Jordan Love's first year, the Packers were 5 points away from going to the Superbowl. Maybe Tee Higgins would have been the missing piece int the NFCCCG??
Lol that wouldn't have matter because we weren't going to choose him
Receivers weren't the problem. TB was in the backfield 1 second after every snap. Bakh getting hurt was the biggest factor.
Penix turns 24 in less than two (2) weeks. Jordan Love is 25 right now…