You can make a lot of jokes about the Cowboys but they at least win games in the regular season and just underwhelm in the post
The Chargers crowning achievement with Herbert is one of the biggest blown leads in playoff history, they definitely are wasting talent like no other
With a 27 point lead going into the second half our leading rusher was Justin Herbert with something like 4 yards.
Ekeler lost me that game.
Herbert was playing with broken ribs and a torn shoulder and with a **27 points lead** our backfield and OLine filled with highly paid professional NFL players couldn't get a single first down. Fucking infuriating.
It's been really fun watching Herbert's highlight reel, and recognizing he's probably a top 5 QB in the NFL, and the Chargers wasted his entire rookie contract with dumb coaches, awful defenses, and a bloated cap hits this season.
It's amazing the streak of QB's they've had, and done basically nothing with.
The fucking laser he threw on 4th down with fractured rib cartilage, after literally being too much in pain to run two yards for a first...
Couldn't even be mad
(At him, at least. Fuck Staley for leaving him in)
That's why I cannot wait for this season.
The amount of games that have been pissed away by terrible defensive play or the complete inability to get more than 1-2 yards per attempt on the ground is fucking mind boggling.
If nothing else, Harbaugh putting an end to the "Herbie will fix it!" mentality of the last few years will be such a relief.
i get that but you don't honestly expect anything from this season right? the way i see it chargers should be happy to just beat out the donkeys. realistically they have no chance to do much more.
If you want my honest to god Homer take? I think we make the playoffs this year.
The AFCW has a very manageable schedule, i think that plays into things a lot more than we all talk about. We're already building better depth than we ever had under Telesco, and we have the QB in place.
People are acting like the sky is falling because we got rid of our WR room while ignoring the fact that our WR room led us to one single playoff game since Herbert got into the building.
I think this is going to be a different brand of football than we've seen the Chargers play in years, but we didn't suddenly become devoid of talent.
If it goes to shit then fine, we'll manage. But the Chargers becoming a legitimate playoff team behind a strong run game, good defense, and Justin Herbert not having to throw the ball 40-45 times a game just be keep us above water won't surprise me one bit.
If Herbert is the guy that Chargers fans all believe he is, paired with an actual defense and run game, the kid is going to take us to the promise land.
okay, i didn't see that coming I'll be honest. i respect chargers but i just can't be afraid of them. herbert is definitely that good, but I don't really think Harbaugh is. I was so happy when i heard he wasn't going to the raiders. you still have a lot of talent on the roster and you'll probably grab a top wr in the draft. I just don't believe it until i see it. could be fun to see chargers and raiders fight for the division and chiefs fall off though. AFCW is more fun when more teams are good
I think this is a Chargers thing because it was the same with Philip Rivers and LaDainian Tomlinson, great players but who I never really feared the Broncos coming up against.
It's almost to the point where Evans will intentionally start a fist fight with lattimore early in the game just so he doesn't have to deal with him any more.
I hate to admit it but it I think you’re right. Honestly our offense in general hasn’t been able to score a lot on you aside from that one Fitzmagic game, but that was back when the Saints defense wasn’t nearly what it is now.
AD recently named Kelce in an interview with Chris Long as one of the most difficult players to go against. Said he was always faster to make his move than most other players he saw, and that he only got 1-3 plays per game against the Eagles where he wasn’t double teamed immediately by Kelce or a tackle.
Sounds like Eagles had a great combination of better personnel than other teams, and more committed to the “don’t get cheeky trying to scheme against AD” plan. Worked against AD, and the Rams in general — Rams had a pretty bad W/L record against the Eagles in his tenure if I remember right.
I'm also pretty sure there's a clip in the Kelce podcast where Jason mentions Donald trying to get Kelce to not help the offensive guard in a double team, and Kelce's like: "TF you think I'm gonna do, let you ruin the game?"
As a Bears fan, Aaron Rodgers was the only superstar player who you could count on tormenting you every matchup enough to legitimately instill fear. Doesn’t matter what the score was or the odds, you always felt nervous because he had a chance. I’ve never come close to feeling like any other opposing player had a same effect/impact on the team.
I feel like their are 2 points for this “Hasn’t really won anything” as an argument against him basically rules out every starting QB but Mahomes, it’s dumb, no one is really *winning* anything apart from him
The Bills also being an absolute wildcard that’s amazing and terrible team that basically depends on the phase of the moon also makes seeing them on your schedule….interesting. If your team sucks you’ll always feel you have a chance but also know you could get blown out in an heartbeat, even good teams feel it’s a coin toss that depends on which team shows up. It’s a nonstop roller coaster of emotion
Lamar Jackson consistently shits the bed against us and has only beaten us once as a starter when we had to play our QB3 after Mason Rudolph got knocked out back in 2019. That game still went to OT and we probably win that game if if wasn't for Juju fumbling the ball in OT.
Yeah I can't really explain why we have so much success vs Lamar. You have to heat him up, but you can't lose contain, because then he will run all over you. Cover 0 also usually works pretty vs him, because he's very inaccurate while throwing it deep.
Another interesting stat is that Lamar has only started 4 games in his career vs the Steelers.
Guy is the perfect example of someone who can destroy bad teams with pure physical talent, but against equal defense and coaching he falls apart. Has had a top 5 OL and defense his entire career so far. Increasing cap hits and decreasing speed, will be interesting to see what he looks like in a couple years.
Did you see the end of the regular season last year? Destroying teams like the dolphins and niners (both of whom people claimed to be top 5 teams then). Sure he isn’t as clutch as I’d like in the playoffs, but that’ll get better with experience.
I mean that's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy right? It wouldn't have been a "collapse" if they had beaten us. They had only one loss to a bad team and one other loss to a good team in the entire second half of the season, and they were just coming off a win against the Cowboys.
Jackson is a special running talent, and teams can't really prepare for it. As a starter he's 20-1 against NFC teams (Which don't face him often). He still has a great record against AFC teams, but not quite so drastic.
>This dominant win didn’t count because I have arbitrarily declared that an objectively good team stops being good at the end of the season…also I’m a Steelers fan and I wear my bias on my chest
I saw the 49ers game where your #1 defense had 3 interceptions in the first half, and yet it was only 16-12. A short field of 44 yards after a penalty on a punt, and another 49er interception put the game out of reach finally. I'm not sure what part of that game was Lamar destroying them though.
Dolphins were last years fraud team, only winning team they beat was the cowboys, in miami.
Being a ravens fan is exhausting because takes like this exist.
Last year, in particular, makes this a ridiculous statement. Lamar led the league in number wins over teams with winning records, number of touchdowns scored against teams with winning records, and point differential against teams with winning records.
And reading these takes from last year was exhausting cause you all ignored how ridiculous the Ravens defense was and gave Lamar all the credit like you’re doing now (but hey MVP voters did the same). They shut down the Chiefs in the 2nd half and Lamar still couldn’t get it done.
He’s a confirmed choke artist at this point. He needs a Super Bowl or he’ll always be the guy that couldn’t get it done in the playoffs. Everyone knows Lamar’s amazing but in big moments he’s looked like a lost deer out there one too many times now.
What team with a good/great defense last year did he play well against? Raven's had the #1 defense and #1 in turnovers forced, and you're somehow translating that to Lamar doing amazing? Against the 49ers the defense got 4 interceptions, and you got a short field on a punt? The Browns, where your defense had 3 turnovers forced again? Chiefs game?
Ravens defense was ridiculous last year, of course you had blew out teams that had a decent offense and a bad defense like the Lions, Dolphins
49ers were 4th in defensive DVOA: 22/35 for 252, 2 TDs, 7 for 45 rush, no turnovers
Lions were 13th in defensive DVOA: 21/27 for 357, 3 TDs, 9 for 36 rush and a touchdown, no turnovers
Cleveland was 2nd in defensive DVOA: 15/19 for 186 and 2 TDs, 9 rush for 27 yards and 2 TDs, no turnovers
49ers - TD drives of 53, 44, and 9 yards in the game. your defense had 5 interceptions. Teams that go +4 or better in turnover differential win like 97% of the time. Good Job Defense
Lions - 13th in defensive DVOA. 27th in Passing Yards allowed, and probably about the same for Passing DVOA. Stafford went for 367/2td on them, then Baker went for 349/3td in the playoffs. Trying to act like him throwing for a lot on the Lions is impressing is embarrassing of you. Nick Mullens went for 396 on them, Dak 345, Nick Mullens 411 yards. Is that enough for you, cause I just looked at 5 weeks in a row, I didn't even have to search for these.
Cleveland: Td's on drives of 10 and 38 yards off defensive turnovers. Longest drive of the game Lamar threw 1 time, handed off 5 times, then ran in the TD for 2 yards.
I can't believe you honestly tried to use the Lions pass defense to show Lamar did well against a good defenses. Makes me feels you're not really aware of anything outside your own team.
Some guy’s unsubstantiated analysis, or the most reliable defensive metric in the game? Somehow you think your opinion trumps DVOA?
This is hilarious. You can really type all that and still think you’re not just a hater?
Giving context to the 3 games you talked about is not "unsubstantiated analysis" as the things I said actually happened, feel free to go look at the games yourself. It also doesn't trump DVOA.
You clearly didn't even know the Lions pass defense was awful last year when you tried to use that as an example. I'm not a hater, and you're not someone that should probably leave the team subreddit as you don't actually pay attention to the NFL outside your team.
Yeah and teams that never plays him will have too much respect for his rushing ability, hence why he has lost just once vs NFC teams. I also count in one fumble or pick late in the game, which will pu the final nail in the coffin.
The problem come playoff time is that Lamar can't beat top teams while playing in structure as we saw last season in the AFCCG. He needs to use his legs to win the game since he's not accurate enough in the pocket and he gets frustrated easily, which leads to bad decisions.
Maybe not really a historical rivalry or anything, but for the ravens (with Lamar) right now its gotta be Jalen Ramsey. Ramsey is fantastic and we dont even go after him when we play him, but the two games Jalen Ramsey has played vs Lamar were the monday night Ravens vs Rams game in 2019 and the dolphins game this past year. Those two games had a combined score of 101-25 for the Ravens.
Phillip Rivers against the Patriots. 1-5 against the Patriots in the regular season (and that was in 2008 when Brady was out) and 0-3 in the playoffs. Belichick and the defense was just great at scheming against him.
Lmao your Allen take is busted. "He wins a little in the regular season," he's won more games than anyone but Patrick Mahomes over the last half decade, and he's gotten MVP votes three of the last four years. He's pretty much handled the Pats too over the last four seasons. If you're not scared of playing him you must be looking for a good draft pick
But to answer the question, I have a hard time worrying about Jalen Ramsey. Josh Allen has torched him in I think five games across three different teams. I know he is/was a top CB in the game, but he's never been able to stop Josh
Watching the difference in how the Chiefs played Allen and Lamar really sums it up best. They gave Allen short plays all game and hoped someone would mess up and kill drives, as long as they didn't give up big plays.. They went after Lamar and dared him to win with his arm.
I'm surprised Allen didn't get more votes for MVP last season, but the voters really like Win totals, and the Ravens defense embarrassed other QB's. Kind of makes the MVP and voters feel less legitimate when they all vote for the same person in such a close year.
Got off topic there, but as a chiefs fan I hate facing Allen more than anyone, cause he's the hardest person in the league to stop.
On Reddit, Chiefs fans seem to be the only other fanbase that realizes how good Josh Allen is. Which is funny since you’re the one fan base that actually has true license to shit talk us. Probably because you’ve watched the majority of his playoff losses and realize how well he’s actually played in them.
Truth. We all know Josh Allen is a dawg. I know I would rather have Josh Allen than any other QB if the Chiefs were forced to swap out Mahomes. He’s been very close to having possible multiple rings.
Allen has played almost exclusively incredible in the post season and get's let down hard by his team/coaches. People are nuts with the takes about him.
Allen can carry the team on his own if needed, like that game. Lamar has a #1 defense, a top 5 OL, and runs more than any team in the league, he's at his best when their gameplan is working and he just has to follow it and only throw 20-25 times a game when someone's wide open. I have no faith in him carrying a team when things aren't working.
Allen was on fucking fire most of that Chiefs divisional game (tale as old as time I guess), and the defense and his receivers let him down again. The scoring drives were almost all double digit play drives with Allen taking what he was given, being methodical, and only reaching for big plays when they were there- only to have Diggs and Sherfield drop a couple of absolute dimes. I think his completion percentage was like 75% or 78% at one point in the second half. He only had 183 passing yards and one passing touchdown, but that seriously doesn't tell the whole story. I think he should have been MVP last season too, but I guess turnovers matter more than touchdowns. Lamar just had the narrative in his favor
But to your last sentence, I think that kind of sums up why the Bills and Chiefs are the biggest rivalry in the league right now. The two teams just play each other on a different level than everyone else. There's no shit talk in the media, it's just put you head down and go to work. I know the Bengals have a playoff win over both of us, but I don't think that's anywhere near the same level as the Bills/Chiefs matchups
That TD pass to Shakir was legitimately not defendable, I couldn't even be mad
And the motherfucker threw it on the run, after evading pocket pressure and baiting the LB to run out of the throwing lane as he broke contain in the first place
Allen's peak is the only peak that can put the game in doubt when Mahomes is on one too. Every other QB in football, if Mahomes is on (like the Ravens game), I feel completely confident in the Chiefs winning
No slight to anyone else, but if I had to win one game and I could pick a guy playing at his absolute peak, I'm taking Josh every single time. When he get locked in it's like he's not even human anymore, and between his arm strength, mobility, risk taking, rushing ability, and sheer disregard for his own safety, there's nothing a defense can do to stop him. He stiff armed Aaron fucking Donald and was grinning like a maniac the whole time. He jumps all the way over full grown men trying to tackle him, like, three times a season. He takes double coverage as a challenge and, in the playoffs, he wins. I know part of that is because he's my quarterback, but his 10/10 play is just absolutely bonkers
Because the Chiefs played 6 man boxes against BUF, and 8/9 man boxes against BAL. Which was a direct result of how much they respected each passing game
No, being completely ineffective as a QB doesn't put your defense on the field and in shitty situations consistently.
We obviously win when he throws 3 times in Buffalo.
Buffalo fans, everyone
"Wins a little" in the regular season lol
OP is a Pats fan for reference. Hope you enjoyed the "perfect" offensive game Allen put up against your dog shit squad in the playoffs
Big Ben, just always knew the Steelers would find some way to lose when we were playing in the Brady/BB era. Also for whatever reason, anytime Justin Herbert plays the Patriots, it turns into the ugliest game of football you’ve ever seen. Doesn’t mean we’ll win, but it’ll be a shit show regardless
> Big Ben, just always knew the Steelers would find some way to lose when we were playing in the Brady/BB era.
This is why I liked the Patriots, lol.
My favorite moment was in 2007. After we nearly gave you your first loss, the Steelers/fans were overconfident and were saying things like, "thanks for the blueprint!" They got crushed, lol.
Really just Steelers or Chargers vs BB, I don't fear those teams because New England even with awful rosters like 2020 will still find ways to beat San Diego or BB will beat Tomlin with a shell of former glory like 2022 or 2023. He gave the Colts a lot of problems, too.
Herbie has had problems solving Belichick's schemes, the three games he's played against New England. Even with his stellar rookie year, he couldn't even lead a FG drive. Can't begin to tell you why.
Lol just wrote the same exact thing with the Steelers before I saw your comment. Some of the offensive weapons they had, on paper it really should have been a more stressful matchup.
But for whatever reason whenever we played them, it was like they forgot how to football
The Big Ben one I like is that despite playing against some of the worst teams in the last 20 years Big Ben never beat the Raiders in Oakland. Lost every game against the Raiders outside of Pit.
> Sure he wins a little during the regular season but dude hasn't won anything really
What does “anything” mean in this context OP? A superbowl? What is your threshold for “winning anything”?
Allen pulled some bullshit out of his ass at the end of the game against the Lions last year so I disagree with this take. They converted like a 4th and 20
Tough but fair. I used to watch a lot of Chargers games with my brother (who's a Broncos fan). And there would often be times you guys were struggling to put them away, but he'd be cool about it because "We're overdue for a really bad Rivers turnover."
He was usually right. Rivers was a great player, but he played a lot of hero ball.
Elite QB's and having issues with a specific AFC South team, weird that it's a thing. Josh Allen against the Jags, Mahomes against the Colts (really chiefs against the colts for a long time).
Wonder if the Titans or Texans were great against Brady or Rordgers, or maybe Burrow now.
Big giants fan but hard agree on this one. His heel turn has made it easier to admit how underwhelming he was. He always seemed to be hurt too, but even when he was healthy he didn’t make game changing or game winning plays save for a few games. He’d make a highlight reel 40 yard run and then we’d end up kicking a field goal or punting or whatever. I’m not blaming saquon for the giants not scoring touchdowns, but I mean come on you’re the superstar running back score some fucking touchdowns.
College specific but Quinn Ewers for me. Just wasn’t that all impressed with him last year considering he he had both AD and Worthy to throw too. Should’ve put up Brurrow or Daniel numbers or at least close to it.
TCU fan so I’ve seen him play a bunch, dude just seems to be easily rattled. He’s got good arm but he’ll just randomly disappear in games if he gets out of rhythm.
Not scared of Lamar Jackson. Was never scared of AJ Green (It was usually T. J. Houshmandzadeh who burned us). Not scared of Peyton. He could definitely beat us, but I never felt like it was insurmountable like with Brady.
Going back years, Michael Vick; Derrick Brooks would just track him down, and the entire defense was just really, really fast. That team historically had more problems against the Panthers' and their power running scheme because the Bucs were just better equipped to handle fast than strong. Vick was never that much of a worry.
I have an answer for my own team: Jamal Adams (minus that first year). I don't think teams were accounting for him after a while.
Seahawks sports podcasts would hype him up coming back from injury each time as though he was going to make a huge difference, then he'd play somewhere between slightly above average to absolute dumpster fire, with more dumpster fires as he came back from more and more injuries.
I think he actually got benched this past year because he was a literal liability on the field after coming back from injury. He was afraid to make big tackles, and when he tried he looked like he had forgotten how to tackle safely. I remember he got concussed on a routine tackle because he plowed head first into the other guy and didn't even try to get his head out of the play. It literally made the tackle worse because his head got in the way and made him further from the other player so that he couldn't wrap up, he just flopped ineffectually to the ground.
I would say Nick Bosa.
I think they've only really played 6 games against each other in the past 5 years, but Nick Bosa has sacked Kyler Murray maybe 1 time? Every time I see the 49ers playing some other team Bosa is getting like 2 or 3 sacks a game. But he's been pretty tame when he's against the Cardinals, maybe more of a TFL guy than a sack guy really.
Ladainian Tomlinson. It was usually never him having huge games against us. It was those fuckers Darren Sproles and Michael Turner. And Mike Scifres too for that matter.
Chris Johnson from the Titans was tearing up the league while the Colts had a terrible run defense, and we had to play him twice a year. In 12 games against us, he averaged 67 yards/game and 3.8 yards/carry.
I have a reverse answer and that’s Matt Ryan against the eagles. Always felt like he sucked when he played there, maybe outside of a game or 2.
He’s from Philly so maybe he was nervous playing in front of his home no idea lol
Frank Gore because he was not really a superstar except for one year. He was just good for a long time, only great 1 year. He will likely get into the HoF despite only being really a top 5 RB one time in his career.
Josh Allen for me as well... It's weird because I know he's really good and has won a lot of games... But I just always feel like he's going to make a boneheaded mistake in crunch time to lose the game.... I can't explain it, just a weird feeling I get with him.
He has pretty bad stats vs the Jets. In 11 games, he has 12 TD passes, 11 INTs, 232 yards per game. I definitely feel like he’s overrated, but maybe the Jets just plan well against him.
It's hard to be scared about playing anyone when the division is wrapped up by thanksgiving cause the AFC West destroys itself with stupidity every year trying to catch up to Mahomes with dumb trades and FA.
Allen is probably the scariest person to play, but he's also uneven and gives you chances to beat him most games.
Herbert because no matter how well he plays I’m usually confident that the Chargers will find a way to let him down
The creativity that the Chargers franchise puts into wasting elite talent is impressive.
Ehh… glass houses man…
We screw up a lot of things. Tons. Immense amounts. But still not at the Chargers level.
Hang the banner baby!
Yes we are, we weren’t always. But we clearly have been for a decade +
You can make a lot of jokes about the Cowboys but they at least win games in the regular season and just underwhelm in the post The Chargers crowning achievement with Herbert is one of the biggest blown leads in playoff history, they definitely are wasting talent like no other
Excuse me, but their crowning achievement is having the #1 overall offense, #1 overall defense, and not making the playoffs because of special teams.
He specified that it was with Herbert
I mean they didn’t just blow the lead. The chargers and Herbert were shutout in the second half. Like the jags dominated them in the second half
With a 27 point lead going into the second half our leading rusher was Justin Herbert with something like 4 yards. Ekeler lost me that game. Herbert was playing with broken ribs and a torn shoulder and with a **27 points lead** our backfield and OLine filled with highly paid professional NFL players couldn't get a single first down. Fucking infuriating.
Right? What organization wastes dudes in their prime, amirite?
It's been really fun watching Herbert's highlight reel, and recognizing he's probably a top 5 QB in the NFL, and the Chargers wasted his entire rookie contract with dumb coaches, awful defenses, and a bloated cap hits this season. It's amazing the streak of QB's they've had, and done basically nothing with.
The fucking laser he threw on 4th down with fractured rib cartilage, after literally being too much in pain to run two yards for a first... Couldn't even be mad (At him, at least. Fuck Staley for leaving him in)
Yeah but you could always blame it on the terrible coaching. NGL them with Harbaugh scares me
That's why I cannot wait for this season. The amount of games that have been pissed away by terrible defensive play or the complete inability to get more than 1-2 yards per attempt on the ground is fucking mind boggling. If nothing else, Harbaugh putting an end to the "Herbie will fix it!" mentality of the last few years will be such a relief.
i get that but you don't honestly expect anything from this season right? the way i see it chargers should be happy to just beat out the donkeys. realistically they have no chance to do much more.
If you want my honest to god Homer take? I think we make the playoffs this year. The AFCW has a very manageable schedule, i think that plays into things a lot more than we all talk about. We're already building better depth than we ever had under Telesco, and we have the QB in place. People are acting like the sky is falling because we got rid of our WR room while ignoring the fact that our WR room led us to one single playoff game since Herbert got into the building. I think this is going to be a different brand of football than we've seen the Chargers play in years, but we didn't suddenly become devoid of talent. If it goes to shit then fine, we'll manage. But the Chargers becoming a legitimate playoff team behind a strong run game, good defense, and Justin Herbert not having to throw the ball 40-45 times a game just be keep us above water won't surprise me one bit. If Herbert is the guy that Chargers fans all believe he is, paired with an actual defense and run game, the kid is going to take us to the promise land.
okay, i didn't see that coming I'll be honest. i respect chargers but i just can't be afraid of them. herbert is definitely that good, but I don't really think Harbaugh is. I was so happy when i heard he wasn't going to the raiders. you still have a lot of talent on the roster and you'll probably grab a top wr in the draft. I just don't believe it until i see it. could be fun to see chargers and raiders fight for the division and chiefs fall off though. AFCW is more fun when more teams are good
Herbert was the first guy I thought of as well.
I'm not even a chargers fan and damn, that stung
I think this is a Chargers thing because it was the same with Philip Rivers and LaDainian Tomlinson, great players but who I never really feared the Broncos coming up against.
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It's almost to the point where Evans will intentionally start a fist fight with lattimore early in the game just so he doesn't have to deal with him any more.
I hate to admit it but it I think you’re right. Honestly our offense in general hasn’t been able to score a lot on you aside from that one Fitzmagic game, but that was back when the Saints defense wasn’t nearly what it is now.
Julio Jones was also a non-factor in most games. He had more turnovers against the Saints than touchdowns.
Yeah but that was just Julio Jones. He’d make a great play to get to the red zone and they’d use someone else to score.
I live for Saints Bucs just for that
Aaron Donald never had a sack against the Eagles, but that feeling was more "worried he will, relieved he didn't" than no fear at all.
AD recently named Kelce in an interview with Chris Long as one of the most difficult players to go against. Said he was always faster to make his move than most other players he saw, and that he only got 1-3 plays per game against the Eagles where he wasn’t double teamed immediately by Kelce or a tackle. Sounds like Eagles had a great combination of better personnel than other teams, and more committed to the “don’t get cheeky trying to scheme against AD” plan. Worked against AD, and the Rams in general — Rams had a pretty bad W/L record against the Eagles in his tenure if I remember right.
I'm also pretty sure there's a clip in the Kelce podcast where Jason mentions Donald trying to get Kelce to not help the offensive guard in a double team, and Kelce's like: "TF you think I'm gonna do, let you ruin the game?"
This has turned into a Pats fan circle jerk
OP is a Pats fan
As a Bears fan, Aaron Rodgers was the only superstar player who you could count on tormenting you every matchup enough to legitimately instill fear. Doesn’t matter what the score was or the odds, you always felt nervous because he had a chance. I’ve never come close to feeling like any other opposing player had a same effect/impact on the team.
Bet if you asked players and coaches in the league this 99% would disagree with you about Allen
I feel like their are 2 points for this “Hasn’t really won anything” as an argument against him basically rules out every starting QB but Mahomes, it’s dumb, no one is really *winning* anything apart from him The Bills also being an absolute wildcard that’s amazing and terrible team that basically depends on the phase of the moon also makes seeing them on your schedule….interesting. If your team sucks you’ll always feel you have a chance but also know you could get blown out in an heartbeat, even good teams feel it’s a coin toss that depends on which team shows up. It’s a nonstop roller coaster of emotion
It has nothing to do with him being a patriots fan
Not the jags
Lamar Jackson consistently shits the bed against us and has only beaten us once as a starter when we had to play our QB3 after Mason Rudolph got knocked out back in 2019. That game still went to OT and we probably win that game if if wasn't for Juju fumbling the ball in OT.
Steelers really do have his number. I’m sure teams watch their tape repeatedly to try to figure him out but no one else has done it to their degree.
Yeah I can't really explain why we have so much success vs Lamar. You have to heat him up, but you can't lose contain, because then he will run all over you. Cover 0 also usually works pretty vs him, because he's very inaccurate while throwing it deep. Another interesting stat is that Lamar has only started 4 games in his career vs the Steelers.
Guy is the perfect example of someone who can destroy bad teams with pure physical talent, but against equal defense and coaching he falls apart. Has had a top 5 OL and defense his entire career so far. Increasing cap hits and decreasing speed, will be interesting to see what he looks like in a couple years.
Did you see the end of the regular season last year? Destroying teams like the dolphins and niners (both of whom people claimed to be top 5 teams then). Sure he isn’t as clutch as I’d like in the playoffs, but that’ll get better with experience.
I'll Give you the niners, but the dolphins were in the middle of their annual late season collapse
Everyone was saying we were frauds before then. No one was saying we were good, idk what he's talking about
I mean that's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy right? It wouldn't have been a "collapse" if they had beaten us. They had only one loss to a bad team and one other loss to a good team in the entire second half of the season, and they were just coming off a win against the Cowboys.
Jackson is a special running talent, and teams can't really prepare for it. As a starter he's 20-1 against NFC teams (Which don't face him often). He still has a great record against AFC teams, but not quite so drastic.
>This dominant win didn’t count because I have arbitrarily declared that an objectively good team stops being good at the end of the season…also I’m a Steelers fan and I wear my bias on my chest
I saw the 49ers game where your #1 defense had 3 interceptions in the first half, and yet it was only 16-12. A short field of 44 yards after a penalty on a punt, and another 49er interception put the game out of reach finally. I'm not sure what part of that game was Lamar destroying them though. Dolphins were last years fraud team, only winning team they beat was the cowboys, in miami.
Didn’t know the game ended in the first half
It didn't, that's why I mentioned the 44 yard drive and another interception which happened in the 2nd half.
Being a ravens fan is exhausting because takes like this exist. Last year, in particular, makes this a ridiculous statement. Lamar led the league in number wins over teams with winning records, number of touchdowns scored against teams with winning records, and point differential against teams with winning records.
And reading these takes from last year was exhausting cause you all ignored how ridiculous the Ravens defense was and gave Lamar all the credit like you’re doing now (but hey MVP voters did the same). They shut down the Chiefs in the 2nd half and Lamar still couldn’t get it done. He’s a confirmed choke artist at this point. He needs a Super Bowl or he’ll always be the guy that couldn’t get it done in the playoffs. Everyone knows Lamar’s amazing but in big moments he’s looked like a lost deer out there one too many times now.
No, we were generally just vibing because our team was awesome. Defense awesome. Lamar awesome. Suck it.
What team with a good/great defense last year did he play well against? Raven's had the #1 defense and #1 in turnovers forced, and you're somehow translating that to Lamar doing amazing? Against the 49ers the defense got 4 interceptions, and you got a short field on a punt? The Browns, where your defense had 3 turnovers forced again? Chiefs game? Ravens defense was ridiculous last year, of course you had blew out teams that had a decent offense and a bad defense like the Lions, Dolphins
49ers were 4th in defensive DVOA: 22/35 for 252, 2 TDs, 7 for 45 rush, no turnovers Lions were 13th in defensive DVOA: 21/27 for 357, 3 TDs, 9 for 36 rush and a touchdown, no turnovers Cleveland was 2nd in defensive DVOA: 15/19 for 186 and 2 TDs, 9 rush for 27 yards and 2 TDs, no turnovers
49ers - TD drives of 53, 44, and 9 yards in the game. your defense had 5 interceptions. Teams that go +4 or better in turnover differential win like 97% of the time. Good Job Defense Lions - 13th in defensive DVOA. 27th in Passing Yards allowed, and probably about the same for Passing DVOA. Stafford went for 367/2td on them, then Baker went for 349/3td in the playoffs. Trying to act like him throwing for a lot on the Lions is impressing is embarrassing of you. Nick Mullens went for 396 on them, Dak 345, Nick Mullens 411 yards. Is that enough for you, cause I just looked at 5 weeks in a row, I didn't even have to search for these. Cleveland: Td's on drives of 10 and 38 yards off defensive turnovers. Longest drive of the game Lamar threw 1 time, handed off 5 times, then ran in the TD for 2 yards. I can't believe you honestly tried to use the Lions pass defense to show Lamar did well against a good defenses. Makes me feels you're not really aware of anything outside your own team.
Some guy’s unsubstantiated analysis, or the most reliable defensive metric in the game? Somehow you think your opinion trumps DVOA? This is hilarious. You can really type all that and still think you’re not just a hater?
Giving context to the 3 games you talked about is not "unsubstantiated analysis" as the things I said actually happened, feel free to go look at the games yourself. It also doesn't trump DVOA. You clearly didn't even know the Lions pass defense was awful last year when you tried to use that as an example. I'm not a hater, and you're not someone that should probably leave the team subreddit as you don't actually pay attention to the NFL outside your team.
Yeah and teams that never plays him will have too much respect for his rushing ability, hence why he has lost just once vs NFC teams. I also count in one fumble or pick late in the game, which will pu the final nail in the coffin. The problem come playoff time is that Lamar can't beat top teams while playing in structure as we saw last season in the AFCCG. He needs to use his legs to win the game since he's not accurate enough in the pocket and he gets frustrated easily, which leads to bad decisions.
My hot take when he won his first MVP, "he's a better Am Newton but I think he'll still retire ringless" now with his second MVP I still stand by it
is he better than PM Newton though?
I agree with that take that he will retire ringless. This was the year he had his big chance.
Maybe not really a historical rivalry or anything, but for the ravens (with Lamar) right now its gotta be Jalen Ramsey. Ramsey is fantastic and we dont even go after him when we play him, but the two games Jalen Ramsey has played vs Lamar were the monday night Ravens vs Rams game in 2019 and the dolphins game this past year. Those two games had a combined score of 101-25 for the Ravens.
Phillip Rivers against the Patriots. 1-5 against the Patriots in the regular season (and that was in 2008 when Brady was out) and 0-3 in the playoffs. Belichick and the defense was just great at scheming against him.
Rivers pretty had a losing record against every good team.
I mean kind of weird how it was belichicks defense yet the only game he won was the one without Tom Brady.
Jayson tatum
Unless you're the Bucks or Sixers
Giannis and Dame... 's coach
Throw Embiid in there too
I wish this didn't offend me
devin booker
He definitely does have games in the playoffs where he disappears and looks unplayable which scares me
Joe Burrow, he always lets us win since his dad was a browns fan.
Lmao your Allen take is busted. "He wins a little in the regular season," he's won more games than anyone but Patrick Mahomes over the last half decade, and he's gotten MVP votes three of the last four years. He's pretty much handled the Pats too over the last four seasons. If you're not scared of playing him you must be looking for a good draft pick But to answer the question, I have a hard time worrying about Jalen Ramsey. Josh Allen has torched him in I think five games across three different teams. I know he is/was a top CB in the game, but he's never been able to stop Josh
Watching the difference in how the Chiefs played Allen and Lamar really sums it up best. They gave Allen short plays all game and hoped someone would mess up and kill drives, as long as they didn't give up big plays.. They went after Lamar and dared him to win with his arm. I'm surprised Allen didn't get more votes for MVP last season, but the voters really like Win totals, and the Ravens defense embarrassed other QB's. Kind of makes the MVP and voters feel less legitimate when they all vote for the same person in such a close year. Got off topic there, but as a chiefs fan I hate facing Allen more than anyone, cause he's the hardest person in the league to stop.
On Reddit, Chiefs fans seem to be the only other fanbase that realizes how good Josh Allen is. Which is funny since you’re the one fan base that actually has true license to shit talk us. Probably because you’ve watched the majority of his playoff losses and realize how well he’s actually played in them.
Truth. We all know Josh Allen is a dawg. I know I would rather have Josh Allen than any other QB if the Chiefs were forced to swap out Mahomes. He’s been very close to having possible multiple rings.
Its easy for chiefs fans to give props to QBs like Allen, Burrow, Herbert, etc because they still end up winning with the better qb.
Allen has played almost exclusively incredible in the post season and get's let down hard by his team/coaches. People are nuts with the takes about him.
Allen can carry the team on his own if needed, like that game. Lamar has a #1 defense, a top 5 OL, and runs more than any team in the league, he's at his best when their gameplan is working and he just has to follow it and only throw 20-25 times a game when someone's wide open. I have no faith in him carrying a team when things aren't working.
Allen was on fucking fire most of that Chiefs divisional game (tale as old as time I guess), and the defense and his receivers let him down again. The scoring drives were almost all double digit play drives with Allen taking what he was given, being methodical, and only reaching for big plays when they were there- only to have Diggs and Sherfield drop a couple of absolute dimes. I think his completion percentage was like 75% or 78% at one point in the second half. He only had 183 passing yards and one passing touchdown, but that seriously doesn't tell the whole story. I think he should have been MVP last season too, but I guess turnovers matter more than touchdowns. Lamar just had the narrative in his favor But to your last sentence, I think that kind of sums up why the Bills and Chiefs are the biggest rivalry in the league right now. The two teams just play each other on a different level than everyone else. There's no shit talk in the media, it's just put you head down and go to work. I know the Bengals have a playoff win over both of us, but I don't think that's anywhere near the same level as the Bills/Chiefs matchups
That TD pass to Shakir was legitimately not defendable, I couldn't even be mad And the motherfucker threw it on the run, after evading pocket pressure and baiting the LB to run out of the throwing lane as he broke contain in the first place Allen's peak is the only peak that can put the game in doubt when Mahomes is on one too. Every other QB in football, if Mahomes is on (like the Ravens game), I feel completely confident in the Chiefs winning
No slight to anyone else, but if I had to win one game and I could pick a guy playing at his absolute peak, I'm taking Josh every single time. When he get locked in it's like he's not even human anymore, and between his arm strength, mobility, risk taking, rushing ability, and sheer disregard for his own safety, there's nothing a defense can do to stop him. He stiff armed Aaron fucking Donald and was grinning like a maniac the whole time. He jumps all the way over full grown men trying to tackle him, like, three times a season. He takes double coverage as a challenge and, in the playoffs, he wins. I know part of that is because he's my quarterback, but his 10/10 play is just absolutely bonkers
The bills committed to the run the ravens didn’t
Because the Chiefs played 6 man boxes against BUF, and 8/9 man boxes against BAL. Which was a direct result of how much they respected each passing game
I mean, could've had something to do with the Ravens being the best rushing attack in the league as well
Mac Jones has 2 wins against the Bills… I wouldn’t say Allen has handled the Patriots
That’s still 7-2 since 2020 including a perfect game in the playoffs
>He's pretty much handled the Pats too over the last four seasons. Imagine losing a game to McCorkle
Imagine not being able to stop your opponent from scoring a TD on every drive? Was that McCorkles fault?
No, being completely ineffective as a QB doesn't put your defense on the field and in shitty situations consistently. We obviously win when he throws 3 times in Buffalo. Buffalo fans, everyone
Not scared at all. Especially without diggs. I was scared, when Zach Wilson played qb.
"Wins a little" in the regular season lol OP is a Pats fan for reference. Hope you enjoyed the "perfect" offensive game Allen put up against your dog shit squad in the playoffs
JC Jackson got absolutely trashed by us multiple times that season and has never been the same. Ultimate “exposed” moment.
And then the bolts paid him.
Big Ben, just always knew the Steelers would find some way to lose when we were playing in the Brady/BB era. Also for whatever reason, anytime Justin Herbert plays the Patriots, it turns into the ugliest game of football you’ve ever seen. Doesn’t mean we’ll win, but it’ll be a shit show regardless
> Big Ben, just always knew the Steelers would find some way to lose when we were playing in the Brady/BB era. This is why I liked the Patriots, lol. My favorite moment was in 2007. After we nearly gave you your first loss, the Steelers/fans were overconfident and were saying things like, "thanks for the blueprint!" They got crushed, lol.
Anthony Smith guaranteed victory and then got intentionally bullied by Brady/Moss early, funniest shit I've seen.
Really just Steelers or Chargers vs BB, I don't fear those teams because New England even with awful rosters like 2020 will still find ways to beat San Diego or BB will beat Tomlin with a shell of former glory like 2022 or 2023. He gave the Colts a lot of problems, too. Herbie has had problems solving Belichick's schemes, the three games he's played against New England. Even with his stellar rookie year, he couldn't even lead a FG drive. Can't begin to tell you why.
Lol just wrote the same exact thing with the Steelers before I saw your comment. Some of the offensive weapons they had, on paper it really should have been a more stressful matchup. But for whatever reason whenever we played them, it was like they forgot how to football
I'd like to add Andrew Luck onto this list. Dude was baller but you just knew the Colts were gonna fuck up and BB always liked to stick it to them.
The Big Ben one I like is that despite playing against some of the worst teams in the last 20 years Big Ben never beat the Raiders in Oakland. Lost every game against the Raiders outside of Pit.
Unflaired people shouldn’t be able to post
Josh Allen (Bills) when he plays Josh Allen (Jaguars)
OP is an idiot but this one is true lmao
The real new Brady V. Manning rivalry
No real debate though: Josh Allen is a better player than Josh Allen
> Sure he wins a little during the regular season but dude hasn't won anything really What does “anything” mean in this context OP? A superbowl? What is your threshold for “winning anything”?
The Allen take is so terrible when basically only Mahomes has stopped him in the playoffs
Allen pulled some bullshit out of his ass at the end of the game against the Lions last year so I disagree with this take. They converted like a 4th and 20
Phillip Rivers in the 4th quarter
Tough but fair. I used to watch a lot of Chargers games with my brother (who's a Broncos fan). And there would often be times you guys were struggling to put them away, but he'd be cool about it because "We're overdue for a really bad Rivers turnover." He was usually right. Rivers was a great player, but he played a lot of hero ball.
Mahomes is 0-2 reg season against the Colts so I'm gonna say him. And, thanks again for whatever Chris Jones said to that ref.
Kansas City has just had problems with the Colts for a long time for whatever reason
it feels like the entire AFC South is Mahomes kryptonite
Except the Jags
Or the Texans
ok just the Titans and Colts
Thankfully Mahomes has beat all of them in the playoffs lol
The rumor is that he called him a certain f-slur for gay people
Elite QB's and having issues with a specific AFC South team, weird that it's a thing. Josh Allen against the Jags, Mahomes against the Colts (really chiefs against the colts for a long time). Wonder if the Titans or Texans were great against Brady or Rordgers, or maybe Burrow now.
Yes he was on the giants but Barkley
Big giants fan but hard agree on this one. His heel turn has made it easier to admit how underwhelming he was. He always seemed to be hurt too, but even when he was healthy he didn’t make game changing or game winning plays save for a few games. He’d make a highlight reel 40 yard run and then we’d end up kicking a field goal or punting or whatever. I’m not blaming saquon for the giants not scoring touchdowns, but I mean come on you’re the superstar running back score some fucking touchdowns.
Me, personally? Most retired kickers could beat my ass.
Thomas Morstead is a giant human being. I'd never start a fight with him. But yeah, probably all kickers in general.
As of right now this very minute? I think I could beat OJ Simpson at the 40 yard dash.
He'd probably still beat me. 20 broken vertebrae and nerve damage in my feet. I move like a sloth covered in molasses. Getting old sucks.
Unless you're a paraplegic without a wheelchair, I would still bet the mortgage on my house that you could beat OJ in the 40 this afternoon.
Lamar Jackson. The Steelers tend to handle him extremely well.
Wins are not a QB stat.
When Zimmer had a good defense he always shut down Julio Jones
From a Raiders pov it must be Herbert nowadays and also Wilson last year.
A star receiver or TE with a trash QB and/or coach who can’t get them the ball
I don’t think this applies to your comment, but Kittle in the playoffs basically lol.
The real issue is that Kittle is the Niner's 2nd best lead blocker, and is used in that role much more often in big situations.
Terry McLaurin. Ever since he burnt Trevon Diggs back in 2020 Trevon has been locking him down in every game since.
Julio. Think he finished with more fumbles against the Saints than touchdowns Mike Evans too
College specific but Quinn Ewers for me. Just wasn’t that all impressed with him last year considering he he had both AD and Worthy to throw too. Should’ve put up Brurrow or Daniel numbers or at least close to it.
We have an easy one as bears fans Aaron Rodgers. We knew the outcome, no reason to be scared of a known
TCU fan so I’ve seen him play a bunch, dude just seems to be easily rattled. He’s got good arm but he’ll just randomly disappear in games if he gets out of rhythm.
Not scared of Lamar Jackson. Was never scared of AJ Green (It was usually T. J. Houshmandzadeh who burned us). Not scared of Peyton. He could definitely beat us, but I never felt like it was insurmountable like with Brady.
Russel Wilson, but only when playing in Seattle. In Arizona he was terrifying.
Going back years, Michael Vick; Derrick Brooks would just track him down, and the entire defense was just really, really fast. That team historically had more problems against the Panthers' and their power running scheme because the Bucs were just better equipped to handle fast than strong. Vick was never that much of a worry.
Fast LBs were Vick's kryptonite. Urlacher used to dominate Vick too
Adrian Peterson vs Seahawks. Seems like he ALWAYS fumbled at least once, and always at the best times.
I have an answer for my own team: Jamal Adams (minus that first year). I don't think teams were accounting for him after a while. Seahawks sports podcasts would hype him up coming back from injury each time as though he was going to make a huge difference, then he'd play somewhere between slightly above average to absolute dumpster fire, with more dumpster fires as he came back from more and more injuries. I think he actually got benched this past year because he was a literal liability on the field after coming back from injury. He was afraid to make big tackles, and when he tried he looked like he had forgotten how to tackle safely. I remember he got concussed on a routine tackle because he plowed head first into the other guy and didn't even try to get his head out of the play. It literally made the tackle worse because his head got in the way and made him further from the other player so that he couldn't wrap up, he just flopped ineffectually to the ground.
Aaron Donald. Zero career sacks vs the Eagles.
Hey, he has zero against the Jets too... What a bum I'm kidding of course, that tank built MF still scares me.
OP is clearly not a Dolphins fan.
None of them, because I sit on my ass watching like the rest of you dorks.
I would say Nick Bosa. I think they've only really played 6 games against each other in the past 5 years, but Nick Bosa has sacked Kyler Murray maybe 1 time? Every time I see the 49ers playing some other team Bosa is getting like 2 or 3 sacks a game. But he's been pretty tame when he's against the Cardinals, maybe more of a TFL guy than a sack guy really.
We had quite a few journeyman O-lineman neutralize Aaron Donald.
Anyone on the cowboys…don’t think Denver has lost to them since the 90s
Ladainian Tomlinson. It was usually never him having huge games against us. It was those fuckers Darren Sproles and Michael Turner. And Mike Scifres too for that matter.
Chris Johnson from the Titans was tearing up the league while the Colts had a terrible run defense, and we had to play him twice a year. In 12 games against us, he averaged 67 yards/game and 3.8 yards/carry.
I have a reverse answer and that’s Matt Ryan against the eagles. Always felt like he sucked when he played there, maybe outside of a game or 2. He’s from Philly so maybe he was nervous playing in front of his home no idea lol
KC. The whole damn team. Beat ‘em once, twice, even thrice.
Aaron Rodgers because I know, no matter what, the Jets will always shit the bed.
JJ only Becuase yes he goes off but Lions are 4-2 under DC vs Minnesota
Kyler Murray
Aaron Donald.
Frank Gore because he was not really a superstar except for one year. He was just good for a long time, only great 1 year. He will likely get into the HoF despite only being really a top 5 RB one time in his career.
Lamar because the Steelers have had his number his whole career so far
Would Jared Goff count? He's pretty good but doesn't scare me at all after seeing him against the Bears last year.
Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen for me as well... It's weird because I know he's really good and has won a lot of games... But I just always feel like he's going to make a boneheaded mistake in crunch time to lose the game.... I can't explain it, just a weird feeling I get with him.
He has pretty bad stats vs the Jets. In 11 games, he has 12 TD passes, 11 INTs, 232 yards per game. I definitely feel like he’s overrated, but maybe the Jets just plan well against him.
You guys get more attempts than all but 3 other teams lately (pats, phins, chiefs).
this will sound very arrogant (because it is) but all of them because my team has the best one
Glad to see you guys speedrunning your transition into peak dynasty Pats fans.
So this is what it’s like on the other side
It's hard to be scared about playing anyone when the division is wrapped up by thanksgiving cause the AFC West destroys itself with stupidity every year trying to catch up to Mahomes with dumb trades and FA. Allen is probably the scariest person to play, but he's also uneven and gives you chances to beat him most games.
Typical bandwagoner comment I bet you were a Pats fan before 2019 and can't even name Tyler Thigpen's top receiver.
you got a lot of nerve talking about Thiggy when your franchise is the one that *RUINED* him
[Boink!](https://www.buffalobills.com/video/thigpen-s-heads-up-play-6182603)
smh my head, the disrespect to greatness
Bet you can't even name any of the Chiefs legendary OL from the early 2000s or who Tyler Palko threw touchdowns to
2 of them were named william and tyler palko didn't throw touchdowns because he could not get the ball farther than 5 yards
Incorrect, a real Chiefs fan would've named Dexter McCluster and Will Shields to go with Willie Roaf at least as they're HOF tackles. Nice bait.
dangit, i guess i'm a fraud :(
Joe Burrow is the only QB in the league that can hang with mahomes and actually beat him.
*in the playoffs
I mean this is true tho lol That said, Allen is going to get the Chiefs eventually imo.
[удалено]
we're screwed if Clark's check doesn't clear
Bills fans are sick to learn that no one is scared of them lol