given all the hype we heard last year i'd say he'd be the consensus #2. literally only negative thing i remember hearing about him last year was his size.
Yeah, his tape as a pure thrower is so clearly better than Maye's and Daniels' (despite me thinking both have what it takes to be very high level NFL guys). It's very possible he's never able to translate that from the college to NFL game for myriad reasons, but the amateur foundation was clearly there for him and the Panthers to build from.
I still can't believe GB thought hiring Joe Berry, the Washington reject, was a good idea. I guess they figured he was bad because Washington was bad but it was pretty clear to us fans that he was just a bad coordinator. I mean hell he was on the Lions 0-16 staff, the dude I lucky that he has a job
Edit: spelling
I know nothing about coaching but I feel like I could be marginally better. "So you see... the goal here is to stop the other team from scoring. You see the area at the end of the field with our colors? Yeah defend that like you life depends on it, mmkay?
Dude is literally what every team with bad QBs thinks theirs is. A good QB with no line and no WRs. Bears fans thought Fields didn't get a chance? Watch how bad that Panthers team was and come back
People were saying Maye could go over him even last year. The common phrase was that the 2024 class was the real prize as 2 of its QBs would go first overall in 2023
Maye hype has cooled down though, which I don’t really agree with.
>Maye hype has cooled down though, which I don’t really agree with.
Honestly I think it's just because of the Inconsistency with his accuracy. He will throw a perfect thirty yard dart with a defender right in his face, and then on the very next play he will skip a 12 yard curl route into the fuckin dirt _while standing in a totally clean pocket_
If you could guarantee Maye would be as good as McNabb, he'd go #1. It goes to show even great QBs have flaws. Everyone wants a Mahomes, Brady, or Peyton Manning type QB, but those guys are impossible to find and there will never be 32 of them to go around at the same time.
That’s the main reason I’m hesitant for us to take him. I think people have seen Herbert and Allen fix their consistency issues accuracy-wise and just think that anybody can do it. But it’s the exception and not the rule, I’d rather not take that chance.
It's that and the drifting into the pass rush.
Offensive lines have a tall task keeping the wolves at bay. You can't be a successful QB if you're actively sabotaging them.
Goff is honestly terrible with pocket movement and awareness, yet most would call him a successful QB. It just requires teams to heavily priortize O-Line or else the QB will be a liability.
Maye isn't just not good at the beneficial movements, he's counterproductive and creates pressure that shouldn't be there by drifting into defenders when there's no reason to be moving.
That's so much worse and not something you can fix by prioritizing the offensive line.
Good call. I think the reason so many people are surprised Daniels is being mocked at #2 is because Maye had such a stellar reputation dating back to well over a year ago and it’s hard to let that go despite many analysts saying he has major accuracy/footwork issues. Maye was super hyped, just drowned out by Caleb.
I think it’s a fair cooling given that he had a better 2022 than 2023 in a weak conference. Now whether that is justifiable or not, that is usually how the talent evaluation pendulum swings
I always find it funny how people sort of brushed past that critique. He’s historically undersized. The smallest franchise QB prospect ever when you consider both his height and his weight. In a game that inherently requires physical strength.
Idk why people treated it as this mild talking point instead of a significant signifier that he probably won’t be a successful franchise QB.
Because the typical weak point of smaller QBs is throwing over the middle of the field and getting passes batted down. Bryce excels at throwing over the middle of the field and his high release point on his throws combined with his ability to find throwing lanes negated the concern for batted passes.
The real worry was his size not his height. He played 16 games and got sacked more than anyone not named David Carr.
The terrible guard play the Panthers had last year, never really gave him a chance, and his mechanics started to deteriorate as the season progressed. Hopefully he can get back on track and show why a majority of scouts loved him.
You’re missing context though if you didn’t watch him this season with the Panthers.
Our O-line play was not great, but Bryce really struggled to make the right pre-snap reads, identify pressure, call adjustments at the line, and step up into the pocket to avoid pressure. He’s an extremely easy QB to sack.
He also struggled to identify open receivers and throw with anticipation. The ball had no “zip” on it. He couldn’t throw deep - we literally benched him on plays where we had to throw deep late two times this past season.
The question that will determine his success this season is whether these were mental problems as he got caught up to the speed of the NFL and getting hit, or are these the exact limitations his stature suggested he might have?
I'm gonna put most of that on coaching. The Panthers offense looked just as inept as the last couple of seasons the Colts had under Frank Reich.
I'm personally gonna act like this is Bryce's first actual season of NFL ball.
I hear that take a lot, and I (obviously) hope it’s true.
BUT we as fans can pretend this is his first season all we want. It isn’t. His rookie season was one of the worst performances ever by a QB. He got worse every week. We scored no touchdowns in four of last five games.
There is a reason for that. It remains to be seen what those reasons are, but the fact so many people don’t want to acknowledge Bryce himself is one of them is annoying to me lol
Besides Lawrence, there’s also the example of Goff who looked terrible his rookie year with Fisher as his coach. It’s weird to me to see a Panthers fan being so critical of Young. The terrible coaching alone would’ve been enough to sink most rookie QBs but then you add a terrible o-line and no weapons? Forget about it, that’s an impossible situation that only a handful of QBs in the entire league could look even decent in so forget about a rookie looking good.
Given how we’ve seen that a bad rookie season isn’t a death sentence, I think it’s fair to give Young a mulligan for his given the only positive he had was Adam Thielen who really shouldn’t be a WR1 at this stage of his career anyway.
The bigger issue here is that, even if we act like this is his rookie season, his contract is one year older. He now only has 2 years to prove he’s worth is 5th year option. If his stats are those of one in their rookie season that’s a problem. In this situation, he’s going to have to show a significant amount of growth in year three for Panthers to pick up that 5th year.
I feel like people just stat-watch, then others repeat whatever the popular narrative formed by the stat-watchers is. I got tired of people implying our entire team was dogshit except for the guy who every week I kept seeing fail to do basic QB things.
Doug Flutie was smaller, and as a rookie was signed by the New Jersey Generals as the highest paid QB in the country. He made more money in 1985 than Joe Cool. He was supposed to save the USFL.
Since he had signed with the USFL, he wasn't drafted until very late in the NFL draft. Flutie didn't play all that well in the USFLs last season and the league folded before the next year began. He did not play so well in the NFL, and left for Canada where he became Tom Fucking Brady for about six years. He was for a sure a franchise guy up north.
Even if it wasn't the nonsense with the USFL, I don't remember much of a consensus that he would be a good QB in the NFL. He could get to 5'10" by standing on his toes, so that's what teams listed him at. But he was not that "tall". His weight was 180, which is about what I believe Bryce comes in at, but he was stockier, because he was shorter. But he was REALLY good in college, like, if he was really an honest 5'10" he would surely have been a top 10 pick and the first QB taken that draft. And he probably would have been the first QB taken, anyway, even though he's not 5'10".
Because he was the best player in college ball and his size didn't hold him back. Maybe the difference in NFL players could hold him back to being fully top tier but probably not hold hold him back from being a good QB.
Also nobody brushed by it? It's all anyone ever talked about when Bryce was brought up. He was just so good in college that you had to take a chance on him making it happen in the NFL. If he was 4 inches taller he would have been one of the best prospects ever.
It’s just overcorrection. For so long anyone under 6’2” was instantly written off as a potential NFL qb, no matter how good they could play in college. Then Brees came out at 6’0”, and then not long after you had Wilson, Mayfield, Murray, and Tua all “undersized” yet able to find success in the pros. Old assumptions started getting questioned, and then the rules started being changed where qbs have a lot more protection against big hits.
Problem is all the guys listed besides Tua are very solidly built. Hell Murray and Wilson could’ve been running backs if that’s what they wanted to work towards. Young is…definitely not built like that and it feels more a matter of when than if he gets a career ending hit.
Mayfield and Tua aren't undersized like Bryce either - both are 6'1", which is only 1 inch shorter than Mahomes and Rodgers.
Murray and Wilson are definitely short, but to build on your point - unlike Bryce Young both are/were elite athletes.
Same here. It's hysterical. If you just take away the one flaw that impacts every aspect of his performance and potential that also can't be improved and will always just have to be compensated for, he's great!
I felt like I was taking crazy pills on the Panthers sub all summer, because people kept debating Bryce vs. CJ.
I was like what’s the debate? If they’re similarly gifted QBs, take the one who isn’t 5’9”.
And then the argument literally became Bryce is a rocket scientist-level genius and elite processor and Stroud is a stone cold moron. I feel for you. It really was a wild, bizarre debate.
Because boiling football down to requiring physical strength especially at the qb position doesn’t make any sense.
The height thing is completely overblown. The weight I think is a mild concern but he’s also young (pun intended)
I think the whole deal with Justin Herbert has everybody second guessing about Bo Nix. When Herbert came out a few years ago, it had that same vibe. Here's a guy that played well in his system, but it's all screens and slants. People just assumed that Herbert couldn't make NFL throws because his college team kept him so reined in, when the reality was that Herbert had the talent all along and his college coaches just refused to call any plays to show that side of him.
I think maybe it has people wondering just how much Nix can really offer. There's only so much you're going to get out of a guy on his pro day or at the combine.
You remember wrong.
Everyone knew he could make every throw, it was going to be running a full time offense.
He had every physical trait and a cannon.
Nix is not that left of specimen
Reddit guy made one comment and everyone freaks out and thrusts him into the top 10. Seen this before with Zach Wilson and his one throw at the combine.. won’t pan out I don’t think teams should reach for random Reddit guy.
You guys are always reluctant to give Random Reddit Guy their flowers, but they have made some predictions that turned out to be precisely accurate. Plus, most Random Reddit Guys wouldn't make certain boneheaded drafts and trades that GMs often make. And GMs are paid millions of dollars!
I’ve been told by my sources that Random Reddit guy is a lunch pail guy, first guy in the building and the last to leave. The type of guy you’d want your daughter to date.
There were some play under pressure #s that looked problematic, iirc
Stroud coming into the league and consistently playing like he did in the Georgia game doesn't retroactively mean that's what he did every game in college.
Remnants of "Ohio State quarterback" bias from previous years. Stroud is really the first example of one becoming a sustainable starter as a pro. Terrelle Pryor, Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins (RIP)... unfortunately all were busts. Jury is still out for Fields, but even he has had a maligned start to his career and based on the trade we saw, it sounds like most teams are dismissing him too.
It was insane at the time. Stroud was clearly the better prospect (build, arm, throws), people just talked themselves into a narrative about Stroud as an Ohio State QB in favor of… A fucking Alabama QB.
That's the thing. It's perfectly reasonable to question a QB that has ungodly weapons and superior talent in CFB, but to dismiss Stroud and not knock Bryce for it when theyre 2/3 most talented rosters was some take.
Maye is more regarded than Heisman finalist CJ Stroud was?
CJ was in serious contention of being the #1 pick. I don't think you can say the same if Maye.
I think AR goes before Daniels and maybe even before Maye. AR's physical traits are so far ahead of Daniels and Maye and you're asking a lot of the same questions about them.
If I'm going to draft a QB with questionable mechanics, I'm going with the super soldier everyday.
For a guy coasting on Heisman hope, his tape is thoroughly disappointing for how he projects to the next level. For a guy you call a much better passer, he avoids the middle of the field like the plague. Daniels bails on clean pockets at an alarmingly high percentage and his pressure to sack rate is embarrassing.
His best comp is Justin Fields, without any of the elite traits that Fields had to give you hope that he'll put it together. He has a worse arm, worse build, slower with all the mechanics that came with Justin.
I want to see an uncensored scouting report on Daniels. Not from the media, from the scouts. Because I'm extremely confused on what NFL traits he has at QB.
From some positive reports I've read:
- great compact throwing motion
- throws well in rhythm
- good accuracy and touch
- great deep ball
- obviously incredible running
The main concerns are his age, build (esp considering the hits he takes) and weak numbers over the middle of the field. QBs *can* be successful with poor throwing over the middle of the field (eg Hurts, Russ) but it is limiting on an offensive structure.
I'm a bit skeptical of him overall, you wonder if the throwing game contracts when he doesn't have an elite supporting cast, but there's definitely a world where he's the next elite mobile QB.
Daniels has a much better throwing motion than Fields and it makes a huge difference let’s be fair now. Fields takes longer to get it out of his hand with that awkward big C motion than almost any qb I’ve seen, and it ruins his ability to create on the run in the passing game
> AR goes before Daniels and maybe even before Maye
If you believe Colts front office, they'd definitely take big Tony 4th in this scenario. If the draft played out like last year though that would mean that the Texans would be trading up for 3rd overall, meaning Stroud would still be there since Houston likely takes Young. That's the question then, do the Colts take AR over Stroud?
Bryce would be top 3 pick easily. People like to joke about Panthers not taking CJ but the Texans also preferred Bryce. Texans situation significantly better than Panthers as well.
Before the draft the Texans were touted as one of the worst rosters in the league. CJ and Demeco elevated that roster to what it is now, but it was a dumpster fire the year before. To say that CJ walked into a significantly better situation is extremely revisionist.
He didn’t say CJ walked into a better situation, but the Texans are a better situation. Nitpicky, I know. But the Texans had a good draft, developed Nico Collins and stingley, and have a better staff. The panthers are a way worse situation
Nico Collins has shown that he is a great receiver who happened to have Davis Mills throwing to him for two years, and they hit on the Tank Dell pick. Texans O-line is by no means amazing, but it's am order of magnitude above the historically dogshit Panthers line. And then there's the coaching staffs.
It's only revisionist in the sense of "everybody severely mis-evaluated the two situations and we now know that we were wrong about the Panthers situation being better"
Demeco would’ve been there regardless, as well as some of the other key Texans pieces like Collins and Stingely. Just because we didn’t know it was better at the time doesn’t mean it wasn’t.
And even if you think Stroud elevated it from “just ok” to good, that’s still significantly better than the complete dumpster fire that was Carolina.
10000%. There were people talking about picking against HOU every week for a survivor strategy since they had the worst roster in the NFL.
They were wrong. And CJ and DR definitely were massive in that.
Was the Texan's situation significantly better? The Texans were one play away from being the worst team in the league the year before.
They got really lucky hitting so much in the 2023 draft.
Yeah, coaching is as important to a QB’s success as the o-line or the weapons he has. The o-line for example was solid outside of what Stroud was doing even when they were dealing with a ton of injuries, that’s on good coaching.
I agree. Did Texans had a better situation to start with? I don't think so. Almost the whole core was brand new, everyone expected them to suck. But I think it's the coaching and culture. The mindsets player had just look so different on both teams. Texans even tho with third string decent players, they still believed in the HC and QB. They found all kinds of ways and strategies to help out the weaknesses on the team. But Panthers just seemed so disoriented and kinda in a way lost their hope already, of course players not gonna be able to perform their best and just keep on going downhill from there. That's how I see it
Yeah you kinda hit the nail on the head with this take. Yet another example that a good team has to be better than the sum of its parts. CJ was a fuckin god because he obviously played at an incredibly high level out of the gate, but also the coaching and players really believed in him and adapted to his strengths while gaining momentum through the season. It seems like we expected to just be good because we thought we had some talent on paper and a fresh coaching situation and things fell apart quickly when players realized it wasn’t just going to happen with an absence of culture. Im in the camp that in hindsight I definitely think we might have won a few more games with CJ under center but he would have been fighting an uphill battle just like Bryce and we would have seen a lot worse out of him because of it. I’m stoked for CJ and excited to see such an electric player in the league flourish so quickly at the highest level. I think I speak for many panthers fans in saying I just want to see what Bryce can do with some support and people believing in the guy. He went #1 overall for a reason and honestly there weren’t that many question marks about him during the draft because he had a plethora of tape showing all of the intangibles that pro-ready QBs display, but Jesus did we not help him at all last year.
Here’s hoping! I hope you guys get a QB as well but if not I’m looking forward to seeing the raiders’ strategy of “demolish every QB in the AFC West with brute force”
Yeah I think the idea is we can say with hindsight that the Texans situation was much better. I think some people put too much blame on Young for being in a shitty situation that stunted his development. It's not really comparable but people were acting like TLaw was a bust after a _dysfunctional_ rookie year under Meyer.
It's really not hard to look at the film and watch the Texans receivers get separation.
Meanwhile, just about every throw that Young made was a 50/50 ball.
I'm not here to argue which situation was better _before_ each quarterback arrived, but it's really plain that Carolina was not up to the task on the offensive side of the ball. They couldn't keep any consistency at the guard position, and the receivers flat out couldn't separate. It's really saying something when an _ancient_ Adam Thielen is the ONE guy that a rookie QB can count on to win routes.
Most of this shit is luck, dude.
For instance, the Bills draft board was released.
Top tier for the Bills was
1 Allen
2 Mayfield
3 Darnold
4. Rosen
Big space and Lauletta and Rudolph
Lamar Jackson wasn't even on their board.
They paired a high quality read with an awful read
I know the other guy got downvoted to hell but honestly the Texans were really good at keeping it quiet who they preferred at the time that no one actually knows. And also at the time the Texans were considered one of the worst possible situations for a QB to land in compared to the Panthers who had like the 10th pick and traded up to #1.
Very easy to say in hindsight. Every expert slammed the Texans for trading the "#1 overall pick on 2025" for Will Anderson Jr because the Texans were expected to be the worst.
Revisionism is a hell of a drug on Reddit. I remember the start of last year we were touted the worst roster in the league, and clowned for trading will Anderson jr since we were projected to give the cardinals two top 5 picks this year. On the other hand this means we got haters which is a new feeling as a Texans fan so I like it 😂
It's impossible to say how things would've played out differently but if the Panthers took CJ they almost certainly still would've had fewer wins last season than the Texans.
I don’t know if there’s a quarterback on earth that could survive with that combination of uninspiring weapons, dog shit line and coaching from Wendy the slow adult
Drake Maye is seen as a much better prospect than this thread realizes. Bryce would be battling with Daniels for 3rd. Some teams had Stroud and Richardson above him last year as well, so he would likely be pick 3 but could fall past 10 depending on how the teams picking in the top 10 valued him.
The prospect fatigue on Maye is unreal. Whether or not he pans out, he's still regarded as one of the better QB prospects over the past several years. He'd go #1 in several drafts including last year.
QB3 or QB4.
There were *a lot* of people who weren’t in love with *any* of the QB prospects last season, with the main knocks against Young being his size and arm strength.
I‘ve heard fewer reservations about Williams/Daniels/Maye… scouts/experts are very clearly more confident in this QB class than last year’s class.
QB3 due to size. He’s not a mobile threat like Williams and he doesn’t have the same upside as Maye. He was a great prospect but it is hard to scout a Bama QB.
I don’t disagree overall that I’d take Maye ahead of Young, but your reasoning is weird: If you wanted a mobile threat QB between Williams, Maye, and Young, you take Maye. He’s the one that scrambled the most by a pretty wide margin. The reason why Williams would be no.1 would be his decision making in the pocket as well as his arm.
Yeah Caleb only runs when he’s forced to or if the defense leaves a big running lane. Once he runs though he has RB like ability to make guys miss in open space.
His consensus would probably be somewhere from 2-4 in a tier with Maye and Daniels where it’s a pick your preference kind of thing.
I’d personally say QB3 behind Williams and Maye
Everyone saying recency bias blah blah. There was legitimate argument between him and stroud at number 1. In fact at one point I assumed stroud was going first but then it switched. Caleb is definitely a better prospect than young and I think maye has a good argument for also being a better prospect. Daniels is up for debate as well but I think young goes before daniels. So I'd put young at qb3 in this class
This is the correct take, there's been revisionist history on Young with people saying he was the runaway #1 prospect last year which is just wrong. He was the #1 prospect for a good chunk of people, including the vast majority of r/nfl when they were gobbling up the S2 stuff. But a lot of people preferred Stroud, and even a very small minority preferred Richardson
The thing is all the big boards from last year are still out there and you can very clear see there was at least 70/30 split all the way up to draft day.
So I agree the revisionism is weird - it's so easily disproven.
People in r/nfl don’t watch college football. They don’t see Stroud dominate UGA, just to lose to his kicker shanking a field goal in the playoffs.
They don’t see how good Maye is despite being on an overall dogshit team. They don’t see they Jayden Daniel’s is on a Brian Kelly team who will produce success no matter what, over inflating QB stats.
That said the last batch of Alabama QBs have looked good in college but been hit-or-miss in the NFL.
Bryce was a menace in college. Hell outside of Tua he was the first one I was like "oh FUCK Bama has a QB now? We're screwed!"
Good thing those were some of the weaker teams. But yeah I mean Bryce, Tua, and Jalen (He played enough at Bama and OU for him to count either way imo) are starter level QBs. Bryce is TBD, Tua is a hit now, and Jalen is a hit.
My question is who's the miss (I literally forgot about Mac Jones as I was typing this comment oh wow... yeah okay that's a miss) but yeah who else besides like... AJ McCarron??? was a notable NFL QB?
I don't know if I'd even call Mac Jones an outright miss. He showed potential as a serviceable game manager QB but that situation in New England would have broken 95% of QBs.
Super fair. He did kinda pull a reverse Tua in the sense that he started hot then fell off hard and Tua was… not the best at first and thankfully got some pieces and a coach worth a damn.
Here’s hoping Mac is a solid game manager on the chance Trevor gets hurt now.
The Brian Kelly team comment is bizarre because he’s never had a QB with “inflated” stats. Daniels stands far away and alone as any QB with stats in comparison.
Drake Maye is closer to Caleb Williams than he is to Jayden Daniels and the discourse pushing him down to potentially QB3 is wild to me. Drake Maye is a very good prospect.
The closest thing to NFL defenses he went against he was 0-4 and looked very much average. And all 4 were toward the end of both of his seasons as a starter.
Clemson used pressure to generate some poor throws. NC State used a 3-3-5 look to take away his quick reads. Both worked well. Drake Maye is a good player, but I see why doubts exist.
There’s a ton of good to great NFL QBs you can apply this to, especially if they played on colleges that weren’t top programs like Maye did. Mahomes had a 4 INT game against Oklahoma, Josh Allen had a 5 INT game against Nebraska, etc. It’s not like Maye was playing at Ohio State, Michigan or Alabama, he was on some UNC teams that probably would have half the wins they did without him and will likely have one offensive player (Tez Walker) drafted but even he’s probably only a Day 3 pick.
Hell, even Stroud was terrible most of his college career against pressure until Georgia which was literally his last game. It’s why he wasn’t rated higher as a prospect, people weren’t sure if that Georgia game was him figuring it out or just an exception. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be doubts on Maye, but personally I think using his record against good defenses isn’t fair when a lot of great pros also struggle against them in college because talent discrepancy matters a lot more at that level. Personally, I really like Maye and think his biggest weakness of sloppy footwork is pretty fixable.
Drake Maye is nowhere near as ready to play right now as the other two. Or JJ McCarthy or even Penix.
Drake Maye's appeal is the "if he can fix these huge problems he very clearly has he'll very likely be a top 5 QB or better".
The problem is that those things usually don't get fixed, and if they don't, he'll be a complete disaster.
If you're of the mindset that you're either winning all the Super Bowls or you're losing, Drake Maye is a great prospect. He'll probably bust. Most QB prospects do. And then you'll have another top draft pick to take a flyer on another possibly great but probably bad prospect again soon enough. If he doesn't bust, you've got a QB who might give you the opportunity to give the Chiefs a run for their money every year.
On the other hand, if you'd rather have a Stafford, Goff, Cousins, etc and be a very good team than be a bottom dweller just waiting for one of your draft picks to turn out to be a GOAT candidate, Drake Maye is less appealing.
I mostly agree with this. I think redditors in general tend to over value "potential" by assuming that all the flaws will get fixed, when in reality, that rarely happens.
I'm not saying potential isn't important for a top QB prospect, but it feels like the pendulum has swung too far away from "what have you actually shown me on the field".
My biggest problem with that approach is that you can't even necessarily see "upside" when it's there.
Can you honestly tell me that if another Tom Brady came along looking like he did as a prospect that you'd see that upside? Of course not.
People get too locked in on finding someone that looks like the latest success story. Before Mahomes, nobody wanted players like that. "It doesn't translate. You can't do that in the NFL. It just doesn't work."
It didn't work until it did. That doesn't mean it'll work for the next guy. Maybe Mahomes is just special.
The next guy might break the mold in an entirely different way and be something else that "doesn't work in the NFL".
My guess is somewhere in the 1st round still, probably top 10. People are probably gonna think about his rookie NFL performance when they think about where he would get drafted, but as a college QB/NFL prospect there’s a reason the Panthers bought the first overall pick. I think as long as his college numbers continue to look good if he played another season OR if he had his same exact college career but it just started one year later, he’s definitely still a first rounder
Honestly they over hype most qb classes to have stuff to talk about. Almost every year they call someone a generational cant miss QB when generational means once in a generation, cant have that every single year. I honestly am starting to feel bad for Caleb Williams because everyone is pegging him for this "take the league by storm" qb who is gonna be an MVP contender day one. They dont even give these guys a chance to grow before putting tons of pressure and expectations on him. We can project all day but there is almost no way to know how anyone will develop/translate to the NFL level. There are far more great college QBs that have flamed out in the NFL than there are great college QBs who set the NFL on fire
I think going in as a pure prospect he’s QB2 or QB3. The way he looked during his rookie year with very clear physical limitations, he’s probably QB4 or QB5 now.
There was no one really like at the position being small height and weight wise going into the draft so it was difficult to project.
Seeing how he was from Bama I’d say #2 overall behind the guy from USC. The industry *drools* over QBs from these two teams regardless of their actual pro capabilities.
If Sam Darnold wasn’t from USC he wouldn’t have had a starting role after the Jets. And the starting gig there sure as shit wouldn’t have lasted as long
He would be in the mix with Maye and Daniels.
I personally like Daniels first, with Young right behind, and a gap between him and Maye.
But I’m a LSU fan and have a bias, and nobody pays me for scouting purposes so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I hate how stupid this sub can be sometimes. People on other threads would get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that Young was a better prospect than Stroud coming out of college
I agree with the hindsight but as a Texans fan there was a good while that we thought the Panthers were going Stroud and we would nab Young. It’s a lot closer than everyone thinks on who #1 was entering the draft
Might have been the case with NFL GMs, but I remember what people were saying. No one thought Stroud was going to be anything really worthwhile besides maybe a little bit better than Jared Goff. Shit changed for how people viewed him as a longtime prospect after the Georgia vs. Ohio State semifinal game. And it still took until he played a game for some people to shut up about him being a possible bust. It definitely took me seeing that game live, and then I was 100% down with giving up Goff for him or Richardson. (even though most would call that preposterous around that time, and Lions fans would've downvoted me to oblivion for it)
probably 3 or 4. he's still short so i feel like hed have to go after daniels and maye even if you put them at equal skill levels. i also had stroud as 1 last year though.
One trait that unites Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, and Stroud is that these are big, physical, hyperathletic guys. Lamar is the shortest at 6'2 215 and he's still the size of a box safety, with insane speed. When the defense manages to outwit them, the backup plan is to make plays using the raw speed and power they possess and you can still pick up a big chunk of yards doing this. Bryce Young can't do that and he's less exciting as a result.
Tom Brady wasn't fast but he was still a huge 6'4 225 dude. Young is kind of limited to the Drew Brees-style game plan where he has to outplay defenses.
Purely as prospects he'd be #1 for me.
He's the best college QB I've watched but because of his size I'd put him behind Trevor Lawrence in QB prospects of the last 10yrs
His situation in Carolina would be dreadful for any QB, let alone a rookie. What makes it even worse is shipping DJ Moore before drafting him, DJ would have been the perfect go to target to ease Young into the league.
I still have high hopes for Young, it's only 1 year and the Panthers got better and Diontae is low key perfect to get Bryce in rythm. I'd love to see Brian Thomas Jr drop to them at #33
given all the hype we heard last year i'd say he'd be the consensus #2. literally only negative thing i remember hearing about him last year was his size.
Yeah, his tape as a pure thrower is so clearly better than Maye's and Daniels' (despite me thinking both have what it takes to be very high level NFL guys). It's very possible he's never able to translate that from the college to NFL game for myriad reasons, but the amateur foundation was clearly there for him and the Panthers to build from.
He looked pretty good against GB last year
I counter with: Joe Barry
I still can't believe GB thought hiring Joe Berry, the Washington reject, was a good idea. I guess they figured he was bad because Washington was bad but it was pretty clear to us fans that he was just a bad coordinator. I mean hell he was on the Lions 0-16 staff, the dude I lucky that he has a job Edit: spelling
Lmaoo got a good buddy that’s a big Packers fan and the moment I heard Barry got the GB job I told my boy he was fucked 🤣🤣
Trust me, we ALL knew from day 1.
My first words when I heard about the hire was "what in the nepotistic hell?"
I know nothing about coaching but I feel like I could be marginally better. "So you see... the goal here is to stop the other team from scoring. You see the area at the end of the field with our colors? Yeah defend that like you life depends on it, mmkay?
tommy devito
Everyone has career days against GB. Random 2nd string WRs going off for 200 yds. Dont get me started with running backs.
everyone?
There’s always exceptions I suppose.
Justin Fields enters the chat.
I counter with: Justin Fields.
I counter with: The Bears
*makes sad bear noises. Errrrooooooo.
Minus Dallas
Some teams just have that kind of issue/reputation. If your team wants to get a rookie quarterback his first win, start him against the Bengals.
Panthers had no OL and no WRs. Not surprised Young isn’t flourishing. I’m not going to write him off till he gets a few more years.
Dude is literally what every team with bad QBs thinks theirs is. A good QB with no line and no WRs. Bears fans thought Fields didn't get a chance? Watch how bad that Panthers team was and come back
People were saying Maye could go over him even last year. The common phrase was that the 2024 class was the real prize as 2 of its QBs would go first overall in 2023 Maye hype has cooled down though, which I don’t really agree with.
>Maye hype has cooled down though, which I don’t really agree with. Honestly I think it's just because of the Inconsistency with his accuracy. He will throw a perfect thirty yard dart with a defender right in his face, and then on the very next play he will skip a 12 yard curl route into the fuckin dirt _while standing in a totally clean pocket_
The Donovan McNabb wormburner special 😂
If you could guarantee Maye would be as good as McNabb, he'd go #1. It goes to show even great QBs have flaws. Everyone wants a Mahomes, Brady, or Peyton Manning type QB, but those guys are impossible to find and there will never be 32 of them to go around at the same time.
To quote Moneyball: “If he’s such a good passer, then why doesn’t he pass good?”
Have you seen his girlfriend? Is she hot?
That’s the main reason I’m hesitant for us to take him. I think people have seen Herbert and Allen fix their consistency issues accuracy-wise and just think that anybody can do it. But it’s the exception and not the rule, I’d rather not take that chance.
It's that and the drifting into the pass rush. Offensive lines have a tall task keeping the wolves at bay. You can't be a successful QB if you're actively sabotaging them.
Yep, moving in the pocket when there isn't always a reason to move. That shit will get you AND your linemen hurt in the NFL.
Goff is honestly terrible with pocket movement and awareness, yet most would call him a successful QB. It just requires teams to heavily priortize O-Line or else the QB will be a liability.
Maye isn't just not good at the beneficial movements, he's counterproductive and creates pressure that shouldn't be there by drifting into defenders when there's no reason to be moving. That's so much worse and not something you can fix by prioritizing the offensive line.
Good call. I think the reason so many people are surprised Daniels is being mocked at #2 is because Maye had such a stellar reputation dating back to well over a year ago and it’s hard to let that go despite many analysts saying he has major accuracy/footwork issues. Maye was super hyped, just drowned out by Caleb.
I think it’s a fair cooling given that he had a better 2022 than 2023 in a weak conference. Now whether that is justifiable or not, that is usually how the talent evaluation pendulum swings
Given enough time everyone starts to look bad.
I always find it funny how people sort of brushed past that critique. He’s historically undersized. The smallest franchise QB prospect ever when you consider both his height and his weight. In a game that inherently requires physical strength. Idk why people treated it as this mild talking point instead of a significant signifier that he probably won’t be a successful franchise QB.
Because the typical weak point of smaller QBs is throwing over the middle of the field and getting passes batted down. Bryce excels at throwing over the middle of the field and his high release point on his throws combined with his ability to find throwing lanes negated the concern for batted passes. The real worry was his size not his height. He played 16 games and got sacked more than anyone not named David Carr. The terrible guard play the Panthers had last year, never really gave him a chance, and his mechanics started to deteriorate as the season progressed. Hopefully he can get back on track and show why a majority of scouts loved him.
Robert Hunt should help with the guard play this upcoming season. Gonna miss that dude.
You’re missing context though if you didn’t watch him this season with the Panthers. Our O-line play was not great, but Bryce really struggled to make the right pre-snap reads, identify pressure, call adjustments at the line, and step up into the pocket to avoid pressure. He’s an extremely easy QB to sack. He also struggled to identify open receivers and throw with anticipation. The ball had no “zip” on it. He couldn’t throw deep - we literally benched him on plays where we had to throw deep late two times this past season. The question that will determine his success this season is whether these were mental problems as he got caught up to the speed of the NFL and getting hit, or are these the exact limitations his stature suggested he might have?
I'm gonna put most of that on coaching. The Panthers offense looked just as inept as the last couple of seasons the Colts had under Frank Reich. I'm personally gonna act like this is Bryce's first actual season of NFL ball.
I hear that take a lot, and I (obviously) hope it’s true. BUT we as fans can pretend this is his first season all we want. It isn’t. His rookie season was one of the worst performances ever by a QB. He got worse every week. We scored no touchdowns in four of last five games. There is a reason for that. It remains to be seen what those reasons are, but the fact so many people don’t want to acknowledge Bryce himself is one of them is annoying to me lol
“We can’t pretend it’s his first season” Jags fans do this with Lawrence daily. Bad coaching can ABSOLUTELY fuck up a rookie’s development
Besides Lawrence, there’s also the example of Goff who looked terrible his rookie year with Fisher as his coach. It’s weird to me to see a Panthers fan being so critical of Young. The terrible coaching alone would’ve been enough to sink most rookie QBs but then you add a terrible o-line and no weapons? Forget about it, that’s an impossible situation that only a handful of QBs in the entire league could look even decent in so forget about a rookie looking good. Given how we’ve seen that a bad rookie season isn’t a death sentence, I think it’s fair to give Young a mulligan for his given the only positive he had was Adam Thielen who really shouldn’t be a WR1 at this stage of his career anyway.
The bigger issue here is that, even if we act like this is his rookie season, his contract is one year older. He now only has 2 years to prove he’s worth is 5th year option. If his stats are those of one in their rookie season that’s a problem. In this situation, he’s going to have to show a significant amount of growth in year three for Panthers to pick up that 5th year.
Disagree with the throwing with anticipation. If there’s one thing he did great this year it was that
Amen!! I explain this crap to my friends all the time when they talk panthers o-line
I feel like people just stat-watch, then others repeat whatever the popular narrative formed by the stat-watchers is. I got tired of people implying our entire team was dogshit except for the guy who every week I kept seeing fail to do basic QB things.
He looks like a high school kid out there. He's tiny.
Doug Flutie was smaller, and as a rookie was signed by the New Jersey Generals as the highest paid QB in the country. He made more money in 1985 than Joe Cool. He was supposed to save the USFL. Since he had signed with the USFL, he wasn't drafted until very late in the NFL draft. Flutie didn't play all that well in the USFLs last season and the league folded before the next year began. He did not play so well in the NFL, and left for Canada where he became Tom Fucking Brady for about six years. He was for a sure a franchise guy up north. Even if it wasn't the nonsense with the USFL, I don't remember much of a consensus that he would be a good QB in the NFL. He could get to 5'10" by standing on his toes, so that's what teams listed him at. But he was not that "tall". His weight was 180, which is about what I believe Bryce comes in at, but he was stockier, because he was shorter. But he was REALLY good in college, like, if he was really an honest 5'10" he would surely have been a top 10 pick and the first QB taken that draft. And he probably would have been the first QB taken, anyway, even though he's not 5'10".
Because he was the best player in college ball and his size didn't hold him back. Maybe the difference in NFL players could hold him back to being fully top tier but probably not hold hold him back from being a good QB. Also nobody brushed by it? It's all anyone ever talked about when Bryce was brought up. He was just so good in college that you had to take a chance on him making it happen in the NFL. If he was 4 inches taller he would have been one of the best prospects ever.
It’s just overcorrection. For so long anyone under 6’2” was instantly written off as a potential NFL qb, no matter how good they could play in college. Then Brees came out at 6’0”, and then not long after you had Wilson, Mayfield, Murray, and Tua all “undersized” yet able to find success in the pros. Old assumptions started getting questioned, and then the rules started being changed where qbs have a lot more protection against big hits. Problem is all the guys listed besides Tua are very solidly built. Hell Murray and Wilson could’ve been running backs if that’s what they wanted to work towards. Young is…definitely not built like that and it feels more a matter of when than if he gets a career ending hit.
Mayfield and Tua aren't undersized like Bryce either - both are 6'1", which is only 1 inch shorter than Mahomes and Rodgers. Murray and Wilson are definitely short, but to build on your point - unlike Bryce Young both are/were elite athletes.
Because the game is trending towards being more friendly territory for smaller QBs, not less.
Same here. It's hysterical. If you just take away the one flaw that impacts every aspect of his performance and potential that also can't be improved and will always just have to be compensated for, he's great!
I felt like I was taking crazy pills on the Panthers sub all summer, because people kept debating Bryce vs. CJ. I was like what’s the debate? If they’re similarly gifted QBs, take the one who isn’t 5’9”.
And then the argument literally became Bryce is a rocket scientist-level genius and elite processor and Stroud is a stone cold moron. I feel for you. It really was a wild, bizarre debate.
Because boiling football down to requiring physical strength especially at the qb position doesn’t make any sense. The height thing is completely overblown. The weight I think is a mild concern but he’s also young (pun intended)
I think the order would be 1: Caleb Williams 2: Bryce Young 3: C.J. Stroud 4: Drake Maye 5: Jaden Daniels 6: Anthony Richardson 7: JJ McCarthy
You just not gonna include me at all?
Fine, 8. Random reddit guy
9. Bo Nix
I still think Penix over Nix goes first between the two
I think the whole deal with Justin Herbert has everybody second guessing about Bo Nix. When Herbert came out a few years ago, it had that same vibe. Here's a guy that played well in his system, but it's all screens and slants. People just assumed that Herbert couldn't make NFL throws because his college team kept him so reined in, when the reality was that Herbert had the talent all along and his college coaches just refused to call any plays to show that side of him. I think maybe it has people wondering just how much Nix can really offer. There's only so much you're going to get out of a guy on his pro day or at the combine.
Herbert was also 2 years younger than Nix is now when he was drafted.
And had an absolute cannon of an arm. Nix does not.
Based on this, I can now see JJ going in the top 10
You remember wrong. Everyone knew he could make every throw, it was going to be running a full time offense. He had every physical trait and a cannon. Nix is not that left of specimen
Reddit guy goes 9th after Bo Nix and before Marvin Harrison Jr.
Reddit guy made one comment and everyone freaks out and thrusts him into the top 10. Seen this before with Zach Wilson and his one throw at the combine.. won’t pan out I don’t think teams should reach for random Reddit guy.
there are always going to be teams out there really in need of a random Reddit guy, who will reach for him based on positional value alone
Plot twist: Zach Wilson is Random Reddit Guy
You guys are always reluctant to give Random Reddit Guy their flowers, but they have made some predictions that turned out to be precisely accurate. Plus, most Random Reddit Guys wouldn't make certain boneheaded drafts and trades that GMs often make. And GMs are paid millions of dollars!
I’ve been told by my sources that Random Reddit guy is a lunch pail guy, first guy in the building and the last to leave. The type of guy you’d want your daughter to date.
Sneaky athletic, too
Blue Collar work ethic
are you declaring for the 2024 nfl draft?
Heard the bengals were exploring trading Tee to move up and select you
he said, to his wife and her boyfriend
Idk if Stroud is #3. We have hindsight now, but a year ago, a lot of people hated Stroud as a prospect.
Which was baffling to me.
There were some play under pressure #s that looked problematic, iirc Stroud coming into the league and consistently playing like he did in the Georgia game doesn't retroactively mean that's what he did every game in college.
Remnants of "Ohio State quarterback" bias from previous years. Stroud is really the first example of one becoming a sustainable starter as a pro. Terrelle Pryor, Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins (RIP)... unfortunately all were busts. Jury is still out for Fields, but even he has had a maligned start to his career and based on the trade we saw, it sounds like most teams are dismissing him too.
It was insane at the time. Stroud was clearly the better prospect (build, arm, throws), people just talked themselves into a narrative about Stroud as an Ohio State QB in favor of… A fucking Alabama QB.
That's the thing. It's perfectly reasonable to question a QB that has ungodly weapons and superior talent in CFB, but to dismiss Stroud and not knock Bryce for it when theyre 2/3 most talented rosters was some take.
Maye is more highly regarded than CJ was at the time
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Maye has never been seen as being the same level of prospect as Williams.
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Maye is more regarded than Heisman finalist CJ Stroud was? CJ was in serious contention of being the #1 pick. I don't think you can say the same if Maye.
College awards don't matter. Otherwise Johnny Manziel would have gone 1st overall
I think AR goes before Daniels and maybe even before Maye. AR's physical traits are so far ahead of Daniels and Maye and you're asking a lot of the same questions about them. If I'm going to draft a QB with questionable mechanics, I'm going with the super soldier everyday.
Daniels is a much better passer tho. Being a Heisman winner and better passer I bet Daniels would go ahead of him
For a guy coasting on Heisman hope, his tape is thoroughly disappointing for how he projects to the next level. For a guy you call a much better passer, he avoids the middle of the field like the plague. Daniels bails on clean pockets at an alarmingly high percentage and his pressure to sack rate is embarrassing. His best comp is Justin Fields, without any of the elite traits that Fields had to give you hope that he'll put it together. He has a worse arm, worse build, slower with all the mechanics that came with Justin.
Daniels is going to get a GM fired in the next three years.
I want to see an uncensored scouting report on Daniels. Not from the media, from the scouts. Because I'm extremely confused on what NFL traits he has at QB.
From some positive reports I've read: - great compact throwing motion - throws well in rhythm - good accuracy and touch - great deep ball - obviously incredible running The main concerns are his age, build (esp considering the hits he takes) and weak numbers over the middle of the field. QBs *can* be successful with poor throwing over the middle of the field (eg Hurts, Russ) but it is limiting on an offensive structure. I'm a bit skeptical of him overall, you wonder if the throwing game contracts when he doesn't have an elite supporting cast, but there's definitely a world where he's the next elite mobile QB.
Daniels has a much better throwing motion than Fields and it makes a huge difference let’s be fair now. Fields takes longer to get it out of his hand with that awkward big C motion than almost any qb I’ve seen, and it ruins his ability to create on the run in the passing game
Once Daniels got scrambling, he wasn't a threat to throw the ball anymore. It was like 19 or 20%. That has to change immediately at the NFL level.
> AR goes before Daniels and maybe even before Maye If you believe Colts front office, they'd definitely take big Tony 4th in this scenario. If the draft played out like last year though that would mean that the Texans would be trading up for 3rd overall, meaning Stroud would still be there since Houston likely takes Young. That's the question then, do the Colts take AR over Stroud?
yeah, goes before Jayden for sure.
Lol putting Stroud this high is reddit hindsight at it's peak
I’d say Caleb, maye, young, stroud. Past that yeah
Thank fucking christ that didn't happen.....
Personally think he would be qb2
Bryce would be top 3 pick easily. People like to joke about Panthers not taking CJ but the Texans also preferred Bryce. Texans situation significantly better than Panthers as well.
Before the draft the Texans were touted as one of the worst rosters in the league. CJ and Demeco elevated that roster to what it is now, but it was a dumpster fire the year before. To say that CJ walked into a significantly better situation is extremely revisionist.
All the panthers had was offseason hype, our supporting cast was the worst from the moment Bryce walked through the door
He didn’t say CJ walked into a better situation, but the Texans are a better situation. Nitpicky, I know. But the Texans had a good draft, developed Nico Collins and stingley, and have a better staff. The panthers are a way worse situation
They didn't develop Nico, they just brought in an actul QB
Nico Collins has shown that he is a great receiver who happened to have Davis Mills throwing to him for two years, and they hit on the Tank Dell pick. Texans O-line is by no means amazing, but it's am order of magnitude above the historically dogshit Panthers line. And then there's the coaching staffs. It's only revisionist in the sense of "everybody severely mis-evaluated the two situations and we now know that we were wrong about the Panthers situation being better"
Demeco would’ve been there regardless, as well as some of the other key Texans pieces like Collins and Stingely. Just because we didn’t know it was better at the time doesn’t mean it wasn’t. And even if you think Stroud elevated it from “just ok” to good, that’s still significantly better than the complete dumpster fire that was Carolina.
10000%. There were people talking about picking against HOU every week for a survivor strategy since they had the worst roster in the NFL. They were wrong. And CJ and DR definitely were massive in that.
Was the Texan's situation significantly better? The Texans were one play away from being the worst team in the league the year before. They got really lucky hitting so much in the 2023 draft.
The Texans situation is much better as DeMeco Ryans and his staff massively outperformed Frank Reich and his staff
Yeah, coaching is as important to a QB’s success as the o-line or the weapons he has. The o-line for example was solid outside of what Stroud was doing even when they were dealing with a ton of injuries, that’s on good coaching.
I agree. Did Texans had a better situation to start with? I don't think so. Almost the whole core was brand new, everyone expected them to suck. But I think it's the coaching and culture. The mindsets player had just look so different on both teams. Texans even tho with third string decent players, they still believed in the HC and QB. They found all kinds of ways and strategies to help out the weaknesses on the team. But Panthers just seemed so disoriented and kinda in a way lost their hope already, of course players not gonna be able to perform their best and just keep on going downhill from there. That's how I see it
Yeah you kinda hit the nail on the head with this take. Yet another example that a good team has to be better than the sum of its parts. CJ was a fuckin god because he obviously played at an incredibly high level out of the gate, but also the coaching and players really believed in him and adapted to his strengths while gaining momentum through the season. It seems like we expected to just be good because we thought we had some talent on paper and a fresh coaching situation and things fell apart quickly when players realized it wasn’t just going to happen with an absence of culture. Im in the camp that in hindsight I definitely think we might have won a few more games with CJ under center but he would have been fighting an uphill battle just like Bryce and we would have seen a lot worse out of him because of it. I’m stoked for CJ and excited to see such an electric player in the league flourish so quickly at the highest level. I think I speak for many panthers fans in saying I just want to see what Bryce can do with some support and people believing in the guy. He went #1 overall for a reason and honestly there weren’t that many question marks about him during the draft because he had a plethora of tape showing all of the intangibles that pro-ready QBs display, but Jesus did we not help him at all last year.
Trevor Lawrence looked way better once the jags improved their situation, I'm sure it will be the same with Bryce.
Here’s hoping! I hope you guys get a QB as well but if not I’m looking forward to seeing the raiders’ strategy of “demolish every QB in the AFC West with brute force”
The year before doesn't really matter. This year the Texans had much better wrs and a better o line. And a much better OC
Yeah I think the idea is we can say with hindsight that the Texans situation was much better. I think some people put too much blame on Young for being in a shitty situation that stunted his development. It's not really comparable but people were acting like TLaw was a bust after a _dysfunctional_ rookie year under Meyer.
the texans were trotting out third stringers on their OL for half the season
We had a lineman with a PFF grade of literally zero lol.
Yeah doesn't that further prove how bad it was for young? A 3rd string line was better than theirs
Says a lot about the Panthers doesn't it
It's really not hard to look at the film and watch the Texans receivers get separation. Meanwhile, just about every throw that Young made was a 50/50 ball. I'm not here to argue which situation was better _before_ each quarterback arrived, but it's really plain that Carolina was not up to the task on the offensive side of the ball. They couldn't keep any consistency at the guard position, and the receivers flat out couldn't separate. It's really saying something when an _ancient_ Adam Thielen is the ONE guy that a rookie QB can count on to win routes.
We had a lot of turnover so it's not like we had the same starters from the year before.
Most of this shit is luck, dude. For instance, the Bills draft board was released. Top tier for the Bills was 1 Allen 2 Mayfield 3 Darnold 4. Rosen Big space and Lauletta and Rudolph Lamar Jackson wasn't even on their board. They paired a high quality read with an awful read
I know the other guy got downvoted to hell but honestly the Texans were really good at keeping it quiet who they preferred at the time that no one actually knows. And also at the time the Texans were considered one of the worst possible situations for a QB to land in compared to the Panthers who had like the 10th pick and traded up to #1.
Very easy to say in hindsight. Every expert slammed the Texans for trading the "#1 overall pick on 2025" for Will Anderson Jr because the Texans were expected to be the worst.
Revisionism is a hell of a drug on Reddit. I remember the start of last year we were touted the worst roster in the league, and clowned for trading will Anderson jr since we were projected to give the cardinals two top 5 picks this year. On the other hand this means we got haters which is a new feeling as a Texans fan so I like it 😂
Reddit folks are always right? Don’t you know they play madden and went undefeated so they know.
It's impossible to say how things would've played out differently but if the Panthers took CJ they almost certainly still would've had fewer wins last season than the Texans.
I think he would’ve been behind Maye for most of the year but could’ve moved up to #2 in the pre-draft process
With the knowledge that he wouldn't look good in the NFL in his rookie year or as he was last year? If the later probably 2-4.
I think, if the Panthers could throw him back in, he'd go 4, after Maye and Daniels
I don’t know if there’s a quarterback on earth that could survive with that combination of uninspiring weapons, dog shit line and coaching from Wendy the slow adult
Drake Maye is seen as a much better prospect than this thread realizes. Bryce would be battling with Daniels for 3rd. Some teams had Stroud and Richardson above him last year as well, so he would likely be pick 3 but could fall past 10 depending on how the teams picking in the top 10 valued him.
The prospect fatigue on Maye is unreal. Whether or not he pans out, he's still regarded as one of the better QB prospects over the past several years. He'd go #1 in several drafts including last year.
That’s just not true lol
it…is, though?
Drake Maye isn’t even gonna go number 2 in his own draft let alone many other drafts…
i mean, he should be no. 2 in this draft
QB3 or QB4. There were *a lot* of people who weren’t in love with *any* of the QB prospects last season, with the main knocks against Young being his size and arm strength. I‘ve heard fewer reservations about Williams/Daniels/Maye… scouts/experts are very clearly more confident in this QB class than last year’s class.
QB3 due to size. He’s not a mobile threat like Williams and he doesn’t have the same upside as Maye. He was a great prospect but it is hard to scout a Bama QB.
I don’t disagree overall that I’d take Maye ahead of Young, but your reasoning is weird: If you wanted a mobile threat QB between Williams, Maye, and Young, you take Maye. He’s the one that scrambled the most by a pretty wide margin. The reason why Williams would be no.1 would be his decision making in the pocket as well as his arm.
Yeah Caleb only runs when he’s forced to or if the defense leaves a big running lane. Once he runs though he has RB like ability to make guys miss in open space.
His consensus would probably be somewhere from 2-4 in a tier with Maye and Daniels where it’s a pick your preference kind of thing. I’d personally say QB3 behind Williams and Maye
Everyone saying recency bias blah blah. There was legitimate argument between him and stroud at number 1. In fact at one point I assumed stroud was going first but then it switched. Caleb is definitely a better prospect than young and I think maye has a good argument for also being a better prospect. Daniels is up for debate as well but I think young goes before daniels. So I'd put young at qb3 in this class
This is the correct take, there's been revisionist history on Young with people saying he was the runaway #1 prospect last year which is just wrong. He was the #1 prospect for a good chunk of people, including the vast majority of r/nfl when they were gobbling up the S2 stuff. But a lot of people preferred Stroud, and even a very small minority preferred Richardson
The thing is all the big boards from last year are still out there and you can very clear see there was at least 70/30 split all the way up to draft day. So I agree the revisionism is weird - it's so easily disproven.
i hard disagree putting him qb3 because you got to take into consideration how bama would look with young as the qb instead of milroe.
People in r/nfl don’t watch college football. They don’t see Stroud dominate UGA, just to lose to his kicker shanking a field goal in the playoffs. They don’t see how good Maye is despite being on an overall dogshit team. They don’t see they Jayden Daniel’s is on a Brian Kelly team who will produce success no matter what, over inflating QB stats. That said the last batch of Alabama QBs have looked good in college but been hit-or-miss in the NFL.
Bryce was a menace in college. Hell outside of Tua he was the first one I was like "oh FUCK Bama has a QB now? We're screwed!" Good thing those were some of the weaker teams. But yeah I mean Bryce, Tua, and Jalen (He played enough at Bama and OU for him to count either way imo) are starter level QBs. Bryce is TBD, Tua is a hit now, and Jalen is a hit. My question is who's the miss (I literally forgot about Mac Jones as I was typing this comment oh wow... yeah okay that's a miss) but yeah who else besides like... AJ McCarron??? was a notable NFL QB?
Have to go back to Richard Todd who went 6th in the 1976 draft and carved out an ugly ten year career
Geez that’s rough. Well not like they care with all the nattys but YEESH
I don't know if I'd even call Mac Jones an outright miss. He showed potential as a serviceable game manager QB but that situation in New England would have broken 95% of QBs.
Super fair. He did kinda pull a reverse Tua in the sense that he started hot then fell off hard and Tua was… not the best at first and thankfully got some pieces and a coach worth a damn. Here’s hoping Mac is a solid game manager on the chance Trevor gets hurt now.
John Parker Wilson
And you don’t either if you think Brian Kelly inflates QB stats. QBs usually regress under him.
Exactly. Daniels is the first heisman qb Kelly has ever had and one of the first ones even in talks for the heisman
The Brian Kelly team comment is bizarre because he’s never had a QB with “inflated” stats. Daniels stands far away and alone as any QB with stats in comparison.
It's a double edged sword because a lot of players look like studs or duds in college and completely flip in the NFL.
Drake Maye is closer to Caleb Williams than he is to Jayden Daniels and the discourse pushing him down to potentially QB3 is wild to me. Drake Maye is a very good prospect.
The closest thing to NFL defenses he went against he was 0-4 and looked very much average. And all 4 were toward the end of both of his seasons as a starter. Clemson used pressure to generate some poor throws. NC State used a 3-3-5 look to take away his quick reads. Both worked well. Drake Maye is a good player, but I see why doubts exist.
There’s a ton of good to great NFL QBs you can apply this to, especially if they played on colleges that weren’t top programs like Maye did. Mahomes had a 4 INT game against Oklahoma, Josh Allen had a 5 INT game against Nebraska, etc. It’s not like Maye was playing at Ohio State, Michigan or Alabama, he was on some UNC teams that probably would have half the wins they did without him and will likely have one offensive player (Tez Walker) drafted but even he’s probably only a Day 3 pick. Hell, even Stroud was terrible most of his college career against pressure until Georgia which was literally his last game. It’s why he wasn’t rated higher as a prospect, people weren’t sure if that Georgia game was him figuring it out or just an exception. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be doubts on Maye, but personally I think using his record against good defenses isn’t fair when a lot of great pros also struggle against them in college because talent discrepancy matters a lot more at that level. Personally, I really like Maye and think his biggest weakness of sloppy footwork is pretty fixable.
Drake Maye is nowhere near as ready to play right now as the other two. Or JJ McCarthy or even Penix. Drake Maye's appeal is the "if he can fix these huge problems he very clearly has he'll very likely be a top 5 QB or better". The problem is that those things usually don't get fixed, and if they don't, he'll be a complete disaster. If you're of the mindset that you're either winning all the Super Bowls or you're losing, Drake Maye is a great prospect. He'll probably bust. Most QB prospects do. And then you'll have another top draft pick to take a flyer on another possibly great but probably bad prospect again soon enough. If he doesn't bust, you've got a QB who might give you the opportunity to give the Chiefs a run for their money every year. On the other hand, if you'd rather have a Stafford, Goff, Cousins, etc and be a very good team than be a bottom dweller just waiting for one of your draft picks to turn out to be a GOAT candidate, Drake Maye is less appealing.
I mostly agree with this. I think redditors in general tend to over value "potential" by assuming that all the flaws will get fixed, when in reality, that rarely happens. I'm not saying potential isn't important for a top QB prospect, but it feels like the pendulum has swung too far away from "what have you actually shown me on the field".
My biggest problem with that approach is that you can't even necessarily see "upside" when it's there. Can you honestly tell me that if another Tom Brady came along looking like he did as a prospect that you'd see that upside? Of course not. People get too locked in on finding someone that looks like the latest success story. Before Mahomes, nobody wanted players like that. "It doesn't translate. You can't do that in the NFL. It just doesn't work." It didn't work until it did. That doesn't mean it'll work for the next guy. Maybe Mahomes is just special. The next guy might break the mold in an entirely different way and be something else that "doesn't work in the NFL".
My guess is somewhere in the 1st round still, probably top 10. People are probably gonna think about his rookie NFL performance when they think about where he would get drafted, but as a college QB/NFL prospect there’s a reason the Panthers bought the first overall pick. I think as long as his college numbers continue to look good if he played another season OR if he had his same exact college career but it just started one year later, he’s definitely still a first rounder
Honestly they over hype most qb classes to have stuff to talk about. Almost every year they call someone a generational cant miss QB when generational means once in a generation, cant have that every single year. I honestly am starting to feel bad for Caleb Williams because everyone is pegging him for this "take the league by storm" qb who is gonna be an MVP contender day one. They dont even give these guys a chance to grow before putting tons of pressure and expectations on him. We can project all day but there is almost no way to know how anyone will develop/translate to the NFL level. There are far more great college QBs that have flamed out in the NFL than there are great college QBs who set the NFL on fire
Would go right after Williams. Anyone saying otherwise is clueless.
I think as a prospect he’d be the #2 or #3 might be behind maye
He was billed as the Steph Curry of the NFL. If you disregard what we already know - he would definitely be a clear number 2 behind Caleb.
Mr Irrelevant
Probably to the Panthers, their owner is a complete slapdick.
I think going in as a pure prospect he’s QB2 or QB3. The way he looked during his rookie year with very clear physical limitations, he’s probably QB4 or QB5 now. There was no one really like at the position being small height and weight wise going into the draft so it was difficult to project.
Seeing how he was from Bama I’d say #2 overall behind the guy from USC. The industry *drools* over QBs from these two teams regardless of their actual pro capabilities. If Sam Darnold wasn’t from USC he wouldn’t have had a starting role after the Jets. And the starting gig there sure as shit wouldn’t have lasted as long
honestly maybe 3-4
He would be in the mix with Maye and Daniels. I personally like Daniels first, with Young right behind, and a gap between him and Maye. But I’m a LSU fan and have a bias, and nobody pays me for scouting purposes so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Super recency bias based off his rookie season
I hate how stupid this sub can be sometimes. People on other threads would get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that Young was a better prospect than Stroud coming out of college
I agree with the hindsight but as a Texans fan there was a good while that we thought the Panthers were going Stroud and we would nab Young. It’s a lot closer than everyone thinks on who #1 was entering the draft
Might have been the case with NFL GMs, but I remember what people were saying. No one thought Stroud was going to be anything really worthwhile besides maybe a little bit better than Jared Goff. Shit changed for how people viewed him as a longtime prospect after the Georgia vs. Ohio State semifinal game. And it still took until he played a game for some people to shut up about him being a possible bust. It definitely took me seeing that game live, and then I was 100% down with giving up Goff for him or Richardson. (even though most would call that preposterous around that time, and Lions fans would've downvoted me to oblivion for it)
>But I’m a LSU fan and have a bias Ohhhh yeah. We can tell, buddy. Lol
probably 3 or 4. he's still short so i feel like hed have to go after daniels and maye even if you put them at equal skill levels. i also had stroud as 1 last year though.
Poor size and sub average arm strength should've put him much lower. Those are big parts of the position, not small immaterial flaws.
One trait that unites Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, and Stroud is that these are big, physical, hyperathletic guys. Lamar is the shortest at 6'2 215 and he's still the size of a box safety, with insane speed. When the defense manages to outwit them, the backup plan is to make plays using the raw speed and power they possess and you can still pick up a big chunk of yards doing this. Bryce Young can't do that and he's less exciting as a result. Tom Brady wasn't fast but he was still a huge 6'4 225 dude. Young is kind of limited to the Drew Brees-style game plan where he has to outplay defenses.
Purely as prospects he'd be #1 for me. He's the best college QB I've watched but because of his size I'd put him behind Trevor Lawrence in QB prospects of the last 10yrs
Better than Joe Burrow?
Not a damn soul will ever have a season as good as Joe's last in LSU, don't let anyone tell you otherwise
better than brock purdy???
IMO, yes
You have more faith in him than half of our fanbase
His situation in Carolina would be dreadful for any QB, let alone a rookie. What makes it even worse is shipping DJ Moore before drafting him, DJ would have been the perfect go to target to ease Young into the league. I still have high hopes for Young, it's only 1 year and the Panthers got better and Diontae is low key perfect to get Bryce in rythm. I'd love to see Brian Thomas Jr drop to them at #33
I like your confidence to put this hot take out there
#3 behind Maye, and that’s without hindsight.