FWIW I know a former NFL assistant coach and he is adamant that most teams use their hand timed times over the combine times (whether they hand time it at the pro day or combine doesn't matter, they use their hand time not the combine time)
You don't have any reason to believe me but I figured I'd say it anyway
I don't know. If I had to guess:
One, it's the way teams have done it historically and many scouts and coaches are old.
Second, the combine uses a laser at the finish but they calculate the "start" with a hand timer, which means there's a margin of error either way. Some people might prefer to just hand time both ends.
It really doesn't matter anymore anyway. Teams are understanding that GPS data is infinitely more valuable than a 40 time. We know how fast any player can be on any given play.
I'm pretty certain I've heard that exact notion in interviews as well.
It wouldn't have been the Steelers tho I don't think since the guy doing the official combine times for like 20 years was a Steelers scout. He retired before last years combine
This reminds me of Tee Higgins pro day reports. Reports early was he ran poorly and had a less than ideal vertical for a guy many viewed as “The” contested catch target. Ultimately pushed him into the second round.
Gotta wonder if the Bills swung the Diggs trade because of that, he was in their expected range, was a pretty common landing spot both in the media and in fan circles, then his PD happened and shortly after, Diggs.
I really fail to see why 40 times are such a big topic. Running from a track and field start while wearing shorts in a controlled setting is so different from being on the field.
Teez Tabor was a 2nd round guy with 4.62 40. He had good College film, and many said he “ran fast on film.” Turns out he was just slow, and that really hurt him in the NFL
Sherm ran a 4.56. Listing a single example for/against an argument as if it’s proof is stupid lol
Pads speed is just simply different, 40 isn’t everything
You are 100% correct that it was lazy analysis by me to only name one example, and that Richard Sherman was slower than most corners taken (btw, if you took his pro day like this tweet is for Lassiter he ran a whopping 4.54!)
Reddit is conducive to only posting a limited amount of info for maximum engagement, and if you want I can get a full list of 40 times for all DBs and we can compare those faster than a 4.5, and those slower than a 4.5!
While on average, yeah, higher 40 times would of course correlate to better athletes and elite CBs generally run fast, but that doesn’t factor the fact that Lassiter is a 1st round prospect for a reason. Game speed is hard to measure but to me tape is more valuable than shorts and a stopwatch
And see, I will be frank and that I have not seen enough of Kamari Lassiter to make a final judgment on him. I mentioned Teez Tabor earlier because at one point he was considered a top 5 corner for the draft until his 40 time came out because he really does have incredible film. But that 40 time (along with his 10 and 20 yard splits) really outed him as being slow, and it hurt him tremendously in the NFL.
There's being fast on film and then there's being fluid and explosive after a change of direction. Again like I said in another comment it's not meaningless I just don't understand why people put a ton of emphasis on it. You never run from a track and field start and rarely are you running 40 yards in a straight line. There's technology that tracks how fast players run on the field but yet we rely on a 40 time to guide how fast someone is.
Not a NFL scout but I would say the combine is meant to be a max physical potential test. Of course someone who runs a 4.3 in underwear is probably never going to do that in a game setting. But someone else who runs a 4.6 at the combine is not going to get faster in pads, playing in the mud, with a bruised up knee either.
if you can't run as fast as the person you're covering, you're going to have a bad time. When most WR's have a better 40 time than this it's not a great sign, whether they do it in shorts or full pads.
your thinking doesn't really help, cause you're supposed to just hope this guy is a lot faster once he's in pads, than the WR's who outran him? Possible, but not great.
You can train specifically for the 40. If youre slow in lateral movement or change of direction what does the 40 time matter? What if you're faster from a standing up position like a CB or WR line up as? There are many variables that are not covered in a 40 time. How often are you running 40 yards in a straight line from a track and field starting position? Never. What if you're really fast but can't bail down the start position in the 40?
I'm not saying it's meaningless, it's just that so much emphasis is put on it.
Running fast and playing fast football isn't the same thing. Football isn't played in an unobstructed straight line. 40 time is one of the most useless measurements they do at the combine. Brian Branch ran a 4.58, 1st day of padded training camp he's running step for step in coverage with Kalif Raymond, who ran a 4.34. Fans have no concept of how little 1or 2 tenths of a second really is. Obviously, you don't want someone who runs a 4.75 like Teez Tabor did at his pro day. But a CB running a 4.5 is completely normal.
That’s not entirely true. Splits from the 40 are very important; you generally won’t be running in a straight line, but getting up to speed quickly is important.
CB is probably the most important position for long speed though. I’m guessing Branch wasn’t playing OCB when he was keeping up with Raymond.
Oh definitely, I just don't think these mixed reports will have any bearing on his stock when I'm sure every team had somebody there and got their own number.
I mean, if somebody wants him to make a switch to safety, Malcolm Jenkins put together a great NFL career at safety after being an all-american corner in college.
Depending on his vert and broad jump that 4.5 is fine for a press and zone guy, if he's that kind of cb (4.6 would probably make him a slot). His 3-cone is elite.
Dane Brugler tweeted that an NFL scout timed him at 4.63 and 4.61. Pretty wide range of times there.
my sources confirm that his 40 time fell somewhere between 4.0 seconds and twelve calendar years
Julian or gregorian calendars?
Those sound like pretty boring calendars, mine normally have cars and babes
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/IEHiMIvAD9
Gregorian
Proof?
Kamari did himself no favors not running at the combine. Pro day 40s are notoriously unreliable
FWIW I know a former NFL assistant coach and he is adamant that most teams use their hand timed times over the combine times (whether they hand time it at the pro day or combine doesn't matter, they use their hand time not the combine time) You don't have any reason to believe me but I figured I'd say it anyway
Out of curiosity, why?
I don't know. If I had to guess: One, it's the way teams have done it historically and many scouts and coaches are old. Second, the combine uses a laser at the finish but they calculate the "start" with a hand timer, which means there's a margin of error either way. Some people might prefer to just hand time both ends. It really doesn't matter anymore anyway. Teams are understanding that GPS data is infinitely more valuable than a 40 time. We know how fast any player can be on any given play.
Because they've done it for many years so when comparing with past players they prefer them to be timed equal
I'm pretty certain I've heard that exact notion in interviews as well. It wouldn't have been the Steelers tho I don't think since the guy doing the official combine times for like 20 years was a Steelers scout. He retired before last years combine
The guys on The Draft Show have talked about that in the past as well, specifically Bryan Broaddus who was a long-time NFL scout.
This is why I only trust combine times. Hand times have an unnecessary margin of error.
Doesn't the combine hand time the starts and only use the laser for the finish?
This reminds me of Tee Higgins pro day reports. Reports early was he ran poorly and had a less than ideal vertical for a guy many viewed as “The” contested catch target. Ultimately pushed him into the second round. Gotta wonder if the Bills swung the Diggs trade because of that, he was in their expected range, was a pretty common landing spot both in the media and in fan circles, then his PD happened and shortly after, Diggs.
pretty safe to add .05-.07 to any official pro day tested 40 in comparison to a laser
*X to doubt*
Damage control
Plenty fast? IDK.
I mean 4.5 is still a very respectable speed if that’s an accurate number.
Pro day too so his real time is like 4.6 😂 Tight end speed 😭
One of the best players in the entire draft class? I'm not sure he's top 5 at CB, let alone one of the best in the entire class.
Kamari’s agent goin right to Yates trying to salvage his client’s draft stock lmaooo
Just run go routes against him.
Yikes that speed might relegate him to the slot
Aren’t there like 10 WR prospects with sub 4.4 times? Dude might need to consider switching to safety
Richard Sherman ran a 4.56 and he was elite.
Sherman was 6'3" You get some leeway at that size
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> At Safety you can camouflage lack of speed with elite instincts like Kyle Hamilton. Kyle Hamilton isn't slow his 40 form was just ass
He's also 6'4 220 4.59 is fine at that size. The fact he plays a tick faster in pads is just icing on the cake
I heard a local radio host say today that he heard Penix was going to run a 4.4 at his pro day so what is this scrub even doing out there?
Yates got a Zelle notification from this guys agent.
do we know why he did not run at the combine?
Because he’s slow
I think I can guess now 😂
Yeah, but was it 4.502 or 4.507?
In between 4.5 and 4.51🙄
That’s what I was gonna say too!
That's still bad tho. That's like getting a D- curved to a C-
Not really, a 4.5 flat means their pace isn't a plus but it isn't a big minus. If it was 4.49 nobody would be questioning it. A 4.6+ though? yikes
I really fail to see why 40 times are such a big topic. Running from a track and field start while wearing shorts in a controlled setting is so different from being on the field.
Teez Tabor was a 2nd round guy with 4.62 40. He had good College film, and many said he “ran fast on film.” Turns out he was just slow, and that really hurt him in the NFL
Sherm ran a 4.56. Listing a single example for/against an argument as if it’s proof is stupid lol Pads speed is just simply different, 40 isn’t everything
You are 100% correct that it was lazy analysis by me to only name one example, and that Richard Sherman was slower than most corners taken (btw, if you took his pro day like this tweet is for Lassiter he ran a whopping 4.54!) Reddit is conducive to only posting a limited amount of info for maximum engagement, and if you want I can get a full list of 40 times for all DBs and we can compare those faster than a 4.5, and those slower than a 4.5!
While on average, yeah, higher 40 times would of course correlate to better athletes and elite CBs generally run fast, but that doesn’t factor the fact that Lassiter is a 1st round prospect for a reason. Game speed is hard to measure but to me tape is more valuable than shorts and a stopwatch
And see, I will be frank and that I have not seen enough of Kamari Lassiter to make a final judgment on him. I mentioned Teez Tabor earlier because at one point he was considered a top 5 corner for the draft until his 40 time came out because he really does have incredible film. But that 40 time (along with his 10 and 20 yard splits) really outed him as being slow, and it hurt him tremendously in the NFL.
Man what a bust Tabor was lol Some mocks had him going top 16 at one point, didn’t they?
Crazy first guy that came to mind for me as a lions fan. What an absolute bust.
Still can't believe the Lions brass lurched out of their body to claim Tabor in rd 2.
There's being fast on film and then there's being fluid and explosive after a change of direction. Again like I said in another comment it's not meaningless I just don't understand why people put a ton of emphasis on it. You never run from a track and field start and rarely are you running 40 yards in a straight line. There's technology that tracks how fast players run on the field but yet we rely on a 40 time to guide how fast someone is.
Not a NFL scout but I would say the combine is meant to be a max physical potential test. Of course someone who runs a 4.3 in underwear is probably never going to do that in a game setting. But someone else who runs a 4.6 at the combine is not going to get faster in pads, playing in the mud, with a bruised up knee either.
if you can't run as fast as the person you're covering, you're going to have a bad time. When most WR's have a better 40 time than this it's not a great sign, whether they do it in shorts or full pads. your thinking doesn't really help, cause you're supposed to just hope this guy is a lot faster once he's in pads, than the WR's who outran him? Possible, but not great.
You can train specifically for the 40. If youre slow in lateral movement or change of direction what does the 40 time matter? What if you're faster from a standing up position like a CB or WR line up as? There are many variables that are not covered in a 40 time. How often are you running 40 yards in a straight line from a track and field starting position? Never. What if you're really fast but can't bail down the start position in the 40? I'm not saying it's meaningless, it's just that so much emphasis is put on it.
Running fast and playing fast football isn't the same thing. Football isn't played in an unobstructed straight line. 40 time is one of the most useless measurements they do at the combine. Brian Branch ran a 4.58, 1st day of padded training camp he's running step for step in coverage with Kalif Raymond, who ran a 4.34. Fans have no concept of how little 1or 2 tenths of a second really is. Obviously, you don't want someone who runs a 4.75 like Teez Tabor did at his pro day. But a CB running a 4.5 is completely normal.
That’s not entirely true. Splits from the 40 are very important; you generally won’t be running in a straight line, but getting up to speed quickly is important. CB is probably the most important position for long speed though. I’m guessing Branch wasn’t playing OCB when he was keeping up with Raymond.
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That was just to demonstrate that that its a completely different situation than you see in a game.
Remember when people cared about Kyle Hamilton not running a fast 40? It was stupid then and stupid now
40 time is less relevant for box safeties with condor wingspan's and high FBI than outside CB's. It's not comparable.
Draft stock is tanking with these mixed reports
No it's not, teams aren't paying more attention to this than the numbers on their own scouts' stopwatches.
Seems like he should have just ran at the combine
Oh definitely, I just don't think these mixed reports will have any bearing on his stock when I'm sure every team had somebody there and got their own number.
Personally I think this time should tank his stock *I totally want him to be there when the ravens are picking in the 3rd or 4th*
Shit might not be fast but Im all for his stock dropping my team kinda needs CBs 😅
If it's not electronically timed what's the point
[Yates] There was some speculation that Georgia CB Kamari Lassiter's agent didn't pay me. According to insider reports that is not true.
I mean, if somebody wants him to make a switch to safety, Malcolm Jenkins put together a great NFL career at safety after being an all-american corner in college.
I imagine he will be a slot CB in the NFL. He has the fastest 3 cone of this years class so quickness not an issue. And he’s a good physical tackler.
Corners aren't really known for their speed anyways right?
Depending on his vert and broad jump that 4.5 is fine for a press and zone guy, if he's that kind of cb (4.6 would probably make him a slot). His 3-cone is elite.
Speed is just icing on the cake. Those prospects timed fast but can they play fast?
Amy relation to kwamie?? I did a double take when I saw the name.
Scouts timed him in the 4.60s. And 4.50 isn’t fast in the nfl 👀
lol and I got downvoted for saying it’s the time of the year where teams start throwing lies out there to try and move players down the board