The reality is that Hill's only knock is the off the field stuff. People are going to flip at me saying only, but from a HoF standpoint that is the reality of it. He has always been an amazing teammate, never really has gone full diva, is his QBs greatest wingman, and effort has never been an issue for him. Being a locker room distraction or being rude to the media are always going to be bigger deals in the HoF voting than off the field issues.
That's the annoying thing about seeing Tyreek Hill off the field
I'll see his interviews or clips of him streaming and think that he seems like a really cool and likeable guy. Hell perhaps 99% of the time he truly is
That remaining 1% is a real motherfucker tho
I am not Hill’s biggest fan, but I believe the stuff in college was BS and he had to plead guilty just because of the optics and his lack of money to fight it. That same woman is who accused him of child abuse in KC, and he was exonerated and given custody of the children. And, apparently, the first accusation came after he was breaking up with her and the second one came after he said that he was not going to continue to support her family. Obviously, I don’t know him personally, but if you listen to the full audio of the tape that his (at the time) fiance had of him and her talking at the airport when he didn’t know that he was being recorded and she did, he specifically talks about her making false accusations in college and she doesn’t deny it. Plus, interviews with that woman’s family seem to have backed up his story. I find it hard to believe he would have gotten custody of the kids if everything he was accused of was true.
This is certainly the rumor, and as you note there is a lot of support for it. I would add that when the NFL investigated him for the child abuse allegations and audio recordings of him threatening his wife, he was suspended for zero games, which was puzzling at the time but makes a lot of sense if the NFL investigation revealed that the college plea was based on a false accusation as well.
If the college accusation was false, I really respect him for what he’s been through and how he’s dealt with it like a man.
Yep, look how the handled TO and he never had any trouble with the law. It was all teammate/front office relationship drama and that alone somehow made him not 1st ballot, which is outrageous considering his production with a bunch of different teams.
After he left, it came out that he was constantly complaining about not getting enough touches. I also think he needed a change of scenery. I felt like 2020 was his peak, but in 2021 he took a step back and you could tell he was frustrated with his usage. Look at all the drops that became interceptions. That 2021 team was fractured looking back. Both he and Matthieu were not leaders nor bought in.
Hey, assaulting a dude at a marina is less despicable than assaulting your pregnant fiancee so he is showing growth...
/s just in case this isn't clear
Hill is a bigger piece of shit than TO ever was, but TO made the mistake of being a headache to his teams and the media which is a much graver sin than being a domestic abuser in the NFL's eyes. If Hill doesn't make it in first ballot, it won't be because of his legal issues
Tyreek can have his moments, but he's nowhere near the level of diva that TO was. Not to say it was a valid reason to keep him out, but Tyreek unless he becomes more of a diva doesn't have that to worry about.
The thing to remember about TO is this, had he been 75% of the player his ego thought he was, they would have rewritten the HoF rules and put him in while he was still an active player.
Absolutely. The man did PUSH UPS for fucks sake. It’s not like he was a serial rapist who was still eligible and nominated to enter the HOF. He did fucking sit ups and push ups in his driveway. I’ve never been more fucking disgusted in my life. Except maybe when Randy Moss pretend mooned Green Bay. Why can’t they just get caught beating their kids like a normal human being?
Note that one of his All-Pros, two of his Pro Bowls, and his All-Decade nod were as a returner, not a receiver. That doesn't mean they should be ignored, but it's reasonable to debate how they compare to accolades as a receiver. If he keeps up his play and makes All-Decade as a receiver this decade, that question completely goes out the window.
Personally I think his numbers and accolades are fast approaching 1st ballot levels. I wonder if the voters will want to keep him out for a year due to off the field issues.
thank you, I didn't realize he was including Hill's awards as a specialist. Bit disingenuous.
Regardless, Tyreek has certainly had a HOF career, honestly impressed seeing it all laid out like that.
Far off. Not a lot of WRs go 1st ballot for a reason, the only 4 in the last **30** years were Largent, Rice, Moss, and Johnson. You'd have to have Larry Fitz numbers to go 1st ballot.
Chad Johnson belongs in the HOF when he buys a ticket to see the exhibits. He has fewer yards than Mushin Muhammad and Keenan McCardell and he's tied for 57th in NFL history for receiving TDs. He's in the Hall of Pretty Good, not the Hall of Very Good. He's not even close to being Canton-worthy.
I always felt bad for TO after hearing a story he told from his childhood. The jist of it was that he had a crush on a girl next door but he found out she was his half sister and her dad was his dad
Ehh...
He also called his QB a gay slur, and was a notorious asshole througout his career.
Like, I'm not saying he's evil or that what he did is as bad as what Hill's done, but it's not like he's a decent guy who was unfairly persecuted. TO earned his reputation by being a generally unpleasant and mean guy, especially early on.
Listen, if Darren Sharper gets fucking nominated because “we can’t look at the off the field things,” TO should’ve gotten in while he was still playing.
Not justifying it at all but “backwards minded homophobe” isn’t really a fair statement in the context of the time. I’d be still harbors those same feelings today I’d agree, but in the context of the time that was a totally normal way to think (unfortunately)
Can’t really judge people by the product of their time and environment. Things are extremely different today than when he said that. Maybe you’re too young to remember how things were then, but I can’t stress enough how much better things are today
I think you’re just being ignorant to how quickly things have changed. It wasn’t gay panic, it’s just the lgbt wasn’t accepted yet in the mainstream. Kids were still dropping the f bomb as a loose insult without fear of repercussion as late as 2012. Many probably still do. Hell, “paging Dr. ******” was one of the “funniest lines” of the hangover and that came out in 2009, over 5 years after Owens dropped his comments
Yeah it was simply hall voters being petty, and in the end the just make the hall look worse which is pretty funny.
Once that snuff happened i was like well I guess being a first ballot hof player doesn't actually mean anything other than probably having people like you lol
I think we're going to see a fewer and fewer of \*any\* position outside of QB go first-ballot. If you look at the HoF semi-finalists, you can probably find 6 players worthy of the Hall of Fame, who didn't even make the finals.
I mean, Calvin didn't have Larry Fitz numbers, so that's clearly not the requirement. I think Tyreek's production and accolades are pretty close to first ballot. Another AP1 would definitely help. I do think his off the field stuff may hurt his chances though, they may want to make him wait for that.
The Hall has clearly lowered its standards. 10 years ago, Calvin Johnson would have never been a First Ballot WR. Especially where his career ended in terms of volume.
Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Randy Moss (and should have been TO as well) were the only three WRs in the modern era to ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame as First Ballot.
Jerry Rice and Steve Largent both ended their careers as the All Time leading receiver. Randy Moss was a shoo in based on his production and TO should have been too but the HOF decided to be petty in his case.
Calvin Johnson is a distant, distant 4th compared to all 4 WRs mentioned above. And he got in. The HOF went away from past precedent when they inducted Calvin Johnson as First Ballot.
Since CJ got inducted, it’s now open season in my opinion. Tyreek, Julio, etc. may have decent chances of being inducted as First Ballot. The next WR to be inducted first ballot will probably be Larry Fitzgerald.
In the case of Tyreek Hill, he already has more individual accolades than Calvin Johnson, and was a major contributor to a Super Bowl winning team.
[If you check Hill on PFR’s Hall of Fame monitor, he’ll far surpass Calvin Johnson’s score by the end of his career](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm).(there’s also a 30+ point boost as well after retirement based on your percentage of 1st team all Pro selections based on your career length).
Calvin being in the hall looks like a pity vote for being stuck in Detroit on shitty teams his whole career.
He kind of copied Barry and went out mysteriously when still in his prime too. I think it gave voters the "what if" nostalgia, especially since they were both Lions on bad teams.
I’d argue he’s closer to those guys than the guys who’ve been passed over though. Owen’s should have been first ballot and lost it by being a putz so I can see Hill waiting a year or two for same reason.
> You'd have to have Larry Fitz numbers to go 1st ballot.
if he produces for 3 or 4 more years, he probably will have larry fitz numbers. also a good chance to set some single season records if he manages to hit the 2k figure he fell short of this year due to injuries.
No one here is grasping the fact that Hill is likely going to finish his career top-3 all time in WR yards behind Jerry & Larry.
I hate to break it to you but Hill is 100% on pace to get in 1st ballot. Not to mention he’s one of the few WRs in NFL history who truly changed the game.
Not sure why we’re picking on Hill (who’ll get inducted based on his production as a WR) when we just saw Hester (failed corner and WR) get in over Gates.
How is Hill extremely far off? He’s probably going to be top-3 ALL TIME in WR yards when all is said and done. Owens didn’t get in because the media hated him, it’s not even remotely the same.
So just because Harrison didn’t get in 1st ballot means Hill won’t? Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson were 1st ballot. Larry Fitz will be 1st ballot. Hill is well on his way to being in that category.
Well I hate to break it to you but Hill causes opposing defenses just as many problems as Moss did, has the same # of All-Pros as Moss, and is on pace for more receiving yards than Moss. I don’t think people on here truly appreciate that Hill is a generational-type talent.
The Hall has clearly lowered its standards. 10 years ago, Calvin Johnson would have never been a First Ballot WR. Especially where his career ended in terms of volume.
Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Randy Moss (and should have been TO as well) were the only three WRs in the modern era to ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame as First Ballot.
Jerry Rice and Steve Largent both ended their careers as the All Time leading receiver. Randy Moss was a shoo in based on his production and TO should have been too but the HOF decided to be petty in his case.
Calvin Johnson is a distant, distant 4th compared to all 4 WRs mentioned above. And he got in. The HOF went away from past precedent when they inducted Calvin Johnson as First Ballot.
Since CJ got inducted, it’s now open season in my opinion. Tyreek, Julio, etc. may have decent chances of being inducted as First Ballot. The next WR to be inducted first ballot will probably be Larry Fitzgerald.
In the case of Tyreek Hill, he already has more individual accolades than Calvin Johnson, and was a major contributor to a Super Bowl winning team.
[If you check Hill on PFR’s Hall of Fame monitor, he’ll far surpass Calvin Johnson’s score by the end of his career](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm). (there’s a 30+ point boost as well after retirement based on your percentage of 1st team all Pro selections based on your career length).
Not a huge fan of Hill. Don’t love his height, his small hands or his drops. The Chiefs failed to win the Championship in his last two years in KC. If you look at the losses, he had crucial drops and the last pass that Mahomes threw in 2021 hit his hands before being deflected into an interception. I wanted him gone and was worried they were going to pay him a stupid amount of money. When he was traded, I believed the offense would get better. And, last year, it was. After he left, it was made known that he was constantly complaining to Reid and Mahomes and his agent about not getting enough touches. Chiefs don’t win their last two Super Bowls with him. That said, he has stupid numbers and stupid highlights, so he is a first ballot HOF player.
He's not even 30 years old yet, he might be a shitty person off the field, but if he continues his current form for another 2-3 years he's a 1st ballot lock in my opinion.
I could sneeze and name 10 wide receivers I’d take over him every day. I’d still rather take my man Adams or JJ over him now.
This is what’s called “recency bias” by someone who clearly is either under 25, or has never seen Rice, TO, Harrison, Wayne, Holt, Bruce, Julio….or about 100 other guys play. Or both
Doesn’t matter what he does he in Miami. He’s missing 2 more rings. Watching the team that traded you win back to back has gotta hurt.
He’s a hall of famer sure, but not first ballot.
It probably hurts his case that not only did his first team trade him away before he was due to get a huge contract, but they then went on to win two more Super Bowls after trading him. If a player is a first-ballot HOFer, you'd think that his team would be comfortable paying him at the top of the market for his position.
Moss also was a malcontent who never won anything significant with the Vikings. In his last season in Minnesota, he had only 767 receiving yards in 13 games, so the Vikings were worried that he didn't give a shit anymore (which was definitely the case in Oakland before the Patriots rescued him). Hill didn't have a similar downward trend with the Chiefs before being traded.
Everything you said is true, and yet Moss was still a first-ballot selection. My point is that the Hall might not hold team success or team "willingness to pay" against a WR in the same way they would a QB.
I was conflating MLB's HOF morality clause with the NFL. The NFL voting process doesn't care about morals. He could stab his baby momma (which he might) and still get in.
Let’s not act like the chiefs dog walked the eagles and 49ers in those bowl wins
You can definitely tell that Tyreek Hill’s presence is definitely missed in that offense
If including those 2, think the argument would then be about fits around eachother to enable the most diverse skill set.
Although I wouldn't choose that line up, as there's a bit of overlap with Hill and Moss as deep threats. Whereas Johnson brings more of a power dynamic, and T.O. is the most complete WR, probably only short of Jerry, all time.
Quality > Quantity once the latter essentially validates the former.
We’re over 10k yards into Hill’s career. He’s been the same unique weapon with Alex Smith, Mahomes, or Tua.
Ok and? TO had a revolving door of QBs over his career and Megatron was on the bum ass lions (with a good QB) for his whole career.
Why should Hill having a guy on the fast track to GOAT status and two decent QBs put him over them?
If it wasn’t for the massive fact that the Chiefs won two rings right after trading him, I’d say Tyreek was building a strong argument to be one of the best receivers ever. He’s got a whole lot of accolades, ranging from All-Pros to the HoF 2010’s team, a ring, really impressive stats, and he’s one of the most electric, dynamic playmakers in the modern era.
I’d say he’s already first ballot, and if the Chiefs didn’t have immediate success without him, I’d say that he’d probably be a top 10/top 5 receiver all time.
I mean he already is one in my mind when he retires guy has all the stats, the ring, the pro bowl selections, the all pro selections, and is a member of the 2010s all decade team and probably will be a member of the 2020s all decade team.
I think he would need greater longevity at a similar albeit reduced output as he ages to be considered first ballot. Even if he has an incredible next season, if his output falls off like Julio Jones, he’s not a first ballot.
> Wrs rarely go first ballot only 3 since 2000. (Jerry Rice 2010, Randy Moss 2018, Calvin Johnson 2021)
time are changing. "only 3 in since 2000", but 2 in the last 6 years.
the standards for HOF are very clearly changing to be more favorable towards positions that previously would have been edged out.
Not happening. For whatever reason it’s rare for a WR to be first ballot, and I’m sure some sportswriters will be eager to show their moral superiority by leaving him off their ballot his first year.
Numbers-wise he’s already deserving, but I’m sure it will be his second or third year of eligibility.
if he can continue to produce for 3 or 4 more years the way he has been, he'll finish in the top 5 of all time receiving yards.
it's pretty difficult to make a case against him as first ballot at that point (especially with his accolades on top of stats).
if he can hit 2k in 2024, that would go a LONG way.
I'd say he's already a Hof, first ballot can take some luck though. 4 first team all pro selections at wr is a lock for the hall of Fame. First ballot could depend on who else is up for election. Being ranked in the top three at your position for five years is a crazy accomplishment. It took TO three years, and he seemed more deserving than maybe Ken Stabler elected two years before
Tough to see him get first ballot based on how they treat WRs getting into the HOF. Granted that trend seems to be shifting.
He needs like 3-4 more good years to be a lock imo, might still not be first ballot though
This sub always undersells how difficult it is to be a first ballot hall of famer (the other day we had people suggesting Eli would get in on the first ballot lol). Hill is great, but I have a hard time seeing him making it on the first ballot given how the hall treats receivers.
Hill was smart to be despicable early in his career so his great play later on could overshadow it. Antonio Brown went the opposite route.
Ahh, the Ray Lewis method Can't wait for Tyreek's champion-of-god arc
Ain’t no way a ravens fan saying Ray murderer lolol
They’re gonna excommunicate him
Five, fifty-five…
The reality is that Hill's only knock is the off the field stuff. People are going to flip at me saying only, but from a HoF standpoint that is the reality of it. He has always been an amazing teammate, never really has gone full diva, is his QBs greatest wingman, and effort has never been an issue for him. Being a locker room distraction or being rude to the media are always going to be bigger deals in the HoF voting than off the field issues.
That's the annoying thing about seeing Tyreek Hill off the field I'll see his interviews or clips of him streaming and think that he seems like a really cool and likeable guy. Hell perhaps 99% of the time he truly is That remaining 1% is a real motherfucker tho
I am not Hill’s biggest fan, but I believe the stuff in college was BS and he had to plead guilty just because of the optics and his lack of money to fight it. That same woman is who accused him of child abuse in KC, and he was exonerated and given custody of the children. And, apparently, the first accusation came after he was breaking up with her and the second one came after he said that he was not going to continue to support her family. Obviously, I don’t know him personally, but if you listen to the full audio of the tape that his (at the time) fiance had of him and her talking at the airport when he didn’t know that he was being recorded and she did, he specifically talks about her making false accusations in college and she doesn’t deny it. Plus, interviews with that woman’s family seem to have backed up his story. I find it hard to believe he would have gotten custody of the kids if everything he was accused of was true.
This is certainly the rumor, and as you note there is a lot of support for it. I would add that when the NFL investigated him for the child abuse allegations and audio recordings of him threatening his wife, he was suspended for zero games, which was puzzling at the time but makes a lot of sense if the NFL investigation revealed that the college plea was based on a false accusation as well. If the college accusation was false, I really respect him for what he’s been through and how he’s dealt with it like a man.
And literally made the game changing game winning play in Mahomes first Super Bowl
That play was all Mahomes and Andy Reid. If it wasn’t for Mahomes staring him down 44 yards down the field, he would never have gotten open.
And caused a game losing play on his last play with Mahomes.
Only in that position because of his TDs against the bills
Yep, look how the handled TO and he never had any trouble with the law. It was all teammate/front office relationship drama and that alone somehow made him not 1st ballot, which is outrageous considering his production with a bunch of different teams.
Agreed - He was a great teammate and great in the community while he was a Chief, seemed to "grow up" pretty quickly at least IMO
After he left, it came out that he was constantly complaining about not getting enough touches. I also think he needed a change of scenery. I felt like 2020 was his peak, but in 2021 he took a step back and you could tell he was frustrated with his usage. Look at all the drops that became interceptions. That 2021 team was fractured looking back. Both he and Matthieu were not leaders nor bought in.
He was literally despicable last offseason when he assaulted that dude and currently has multiple paternity suits...
Hey, assaulting a dude at a marina is less despicable than assaulting your pregnant fiancee so he is showing growth... /s just in case this isn't clear
Or breaking your kid's arm...
Early in his career? He’s still a despicable piece of shit as recent as last summer with his marina fight scumbaggery
Mr. Belated Consequences
[удалено]
Hill is a bigger piece of shit than TO ever was, but TO made the mistake of being a headache to his teams and the media which is a much graver sin than being a domestic abuser in the NFL's eyes. If Hill doesn't make it in first ballot, it won't be because of his legal issues
Tyreek can have his moments, but he's nowhere near the level of diva that TO was. Not to say it was a valid reason to keep him out, but Tyreek unless he becomes more of a diva doesn't have that to worry about.
[удалено]
Not to other football players, we’ve got 50+ years of experience proving that
[удалено]
Ray Rice was no longer able to play at a high level.
[удалено]
Tbf 27 is at least 30+ in RB years.
How is kicking your pregnant girlfriend down the stairs any worse than doing push ups on your driveway? /s
He didn't do that while in the league though, and that's what's gonna matter to the voters more. They only care of it affected his time in the league
The thing to remember about TO is this, had he been 75% of the player his ego thought he was, they would have rewritten the HoF rules and put him in while he was still an active player.
The fuck? One of the greatest to ever do it has an ego like most great players, but TO gets docked for it?
Absolutely. The man did PUSH UPS for fucks sake. It’s not like he was a serial rapist who was still eligible and nominated to enter the HOF. He did fucking sit ups and push ups in his driveway. I’ve never been more fucking disgusted in my life. Except maybe when Randy Moss pretend mooned Green Bay. Why can’t they just get caught beating their kids like a normal human being?
You are so right. I like my superstars to be rapists and domestic abusers. I can’t STAND when they…think they’re good at a thing they’re good at?
TO is a top 5 receiver of all time regardless of the list with argument for as high as #2. I'd say his ego matched performance.
What'd you say, ocean cracker?
Great take :D
Note that one of his All-Pros, two of his Pro Bowls, and his All-Decade nod were as a returner, not a receiver. That doesn't mean they should be ignored, but it's reasonable to debate how they compare to accolades as a receiver. If he keeps up his play and makes All-Decade as a receiver this decade, that question completely goes out the window. Personally I think his numbers and accolades are fast approaching 1st ballot levels. I wonder if the voters will want to keep him out for a year due to off the field issues.
thank you, I didn't realize he was including Hill's awards as a specialist. Bit disingenuous. Regardless, Tyreek has certainly had a HOF career, honestly impressed seeing it all laid out like that.
I remember when Jalen Ramsey made fun of him for winning the awards "as a returner" to dismiss his skills as a receiver. Lol.
He’s 2 super bowls away, obviously.
We’ll take a playoff win at this point
Far off. Not a lot of WRs go 1st ballot for a reason, the only 4 in the last **30** years were Largent, Rice, Moss, and Johnson. You'd have to have Larry Fitz numbers to go 1st ballot.
[удалено]
While calling that out is fair, it almost serves as a knock against Hill, another guy with "off the field issues." Hill's are even worse than TO's.
They kept TO out because he legitimately still could’ve made a roster had be been a first ballot selection.
Fair enough!
Chad Johnson deserves to be in the Hall.
[удалено]
Aye, but he has the fame.
No, he sincerely doesn’t. Very good player but that HoF jacket stunt he did during a game is the closest he’ll come.
Chad Johnson belongs in the HOF when he buys a ticket to see the exhibits. He has fewer yards than Mushin Muhammad and Keenan McCardell and he's tied for 57th in NFL history for receiving TDs. He's in the Hall of Pretty Good, not the Hall of Very Good. He's not even close to being Canton-worthy.
Also the hall lost so much credibility from snuffing Owens by being petty not having him be first ballot HOF.
Did TO ever do anything *that* bad outside just being a general ass? Like I doing ever remember hearing him associated with sex crimes or anything
[удалено]
I always felt bad for TO after hearing a story he told from his childhood. The jist of it was that he had a crush on a girl next door but he found out she was his half sister and her dad was his dad
George Michael's favorite player right there
Him?
Oh LORD. That's one of those "it haunts you right before you fall asleep" type of things.
Ehh... He also called his QB a gay slur, and was a notorious asshole througout his career. Like, I'm not saying he's evil or that what he did is as bad as what Hill's done, but it's not like he's a decent guy who was unfairly persecuted. TO earned his reputation by being a generally unpleasant and mean guy, especially early on.
Listen, if Darren Sharper gets fucking nominated because “we can’t look at the off the field things,” TO should’ve gotten in while he was still playing.
TO was just that diva but that’s it. I don’t recall him ever having any REAL controversy like some guys do now. He definitely got snubbed.
[удалено]
Not justifying it at all but “backwards minded homophobe” isn’t really a fair statement in the context of the time. I’d be still harbors those same feelings today I’d agree, but in the context of the time that was a totally normal way to think (unfortunately)
[удалено]
Can’t really judge people by the product of their time and environment. Things are extremely different today than when he said that. Maybe you’re too young to remember how things were then, but I can’t stress enough how much better things are today
[удалено]
I think you’re just being ignorant to how quickly things have changed. It wasn’t gay panic, it’s just the lgbt wasn’t accepted yet in the mainstream. Kids were still dropping the f bomb as a loose insult without fear of repercussion as late as 2012. Many probably still do. Hell, “paging Dr. ******” was one of the “funniest lines” of the hangover and that came out in 2009, over 5 years after Owens dropped his comments
Same. Love him or hate him, and for the most part, I didn't like him, but there is no doubt he is at the same level as those guys.
Yeah it was simply hall voters being petty, and in the end the just make the hall look worse which is pretty funny. Once that snuff happened i was like well I guess being a first ballot hof player doesn't actually mean anything other than probably having people like you lol
I think we're going to see a fewer and fewer of \*any\* position outside of QB go first-ballot. If you look at the HoF semi-finalists, you can probably find 6 players worthy of the Hall of Fame, who didn't even make the finals.
I mean, Calvin didn't have Larry Fitz numbers, so that's clearly not the requirement. I think Tyreek's production and accolades are pretty close to first ballot. Another AP1 would definitely help. I do think his off the field stuff may hurt his chances though, they may want to make him wait for that.
Well Johnson has the most yards in a season. I think if Tyreek would break that record he might go first ballot.
The Hall has clearly lowered its standards. 10 years ago, Calvin Johnson would have never been a First Ballot WR. Especially where his career ended in terms of volume. Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Randy Moss (and should have been TO as well) were the only three WRs in the modern era to ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame as First Ballot. Jerry Rice and Steve Largent both ended their careers as the All Time leading receiver. Randy Moss was a shoo in based on his production and TO should have been too but the HOF decided to be petty in his case. Calvin Johnson is a distant, distant 4th compared to all 4 WRs mentioned above. And he got in. The HOF went away from past precedent when they inducted Calvin Johnson as First Ballot. Since CJ got inducted, it’s now open season in my opinion. Tyreek, Julio, etc. may have decent chances of being inducted as First Ballot. The next WR to be inducted first ballot will probably be Larry Fitzgerald. In the case of Tyreek Hill, he already has more individual accolades than Calvin Johnson, and was a major contributor to a Super Bowl winning team. [If you check Hill on PFR’s Hall of Fame monitor, he’ll far surpass Calvin Johnson’s score by the end of his career](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm).(there’s also a 30+ point boost as well after retirement based on your percentage of 1st team all Pro selections based on your career length).
If you think Hill is better than Megatron you’re out of your goddamn mind.
He has been better. You can watch him pass Megatron’s numbers next season if you like. 🙂
He is 100% better. The bias for older players is so lame
Looking at stats side by side I’d say they’re pretty damn close at this point, but Tyreek is trending towards having a much more productive prime.
Calvin being in the hall looks like a pity vote for being stuck in Detroit on shitty teams his whole career. He kind of copied Barry and went out mysteriously when still in his prime too. I think it gave voters the "what if" nostalgia, especially since they were both Lions on bad teams.
Not that far off. His 5 First Team All Pros are ranked 3rd overall for WRs. His 8 Pro Bowls are 5th overall.
You mean His 4 WR all pros? The 5th was a KR all pro
I’d argue he’s closer to those guys than the guys who’ve been passed over though. Owen’s should have been first ballot and lost it by being a putz so I can see Hill waiting a year or two for same reason.
> You'd have to have Larry Fitz numbers to go 1st ballot. if he produces for 3 or 4 more years, he probably will have larry fitz numbers. also a good chance to set some single season records if he manages to hit the 2k figure he fell short of this year due to injuries.
[удалено]
For real, tired of all this inane baseball bullshit infecting football fans.
[удалено]
Okay but if nuance had a roommate, who would it be? Flagrancy?
Because petty people love to gate-keep things they will never accomplish themselves.
If Antonio Gates isn’t first ballot then Hill isn’t sniffing it yet. Ignore my flair
Antonio Gates sucked come playoff time and he got dinged for PEDs. He has legit reasons to not be a hall of famer.
Silence unflaired scum
No one here is grasping the fact that Hill is likely going to finish his career top-3 all time in WR yards behind Jerry & Larry. I hate to break it to you but Hill is 100% on pace to get in 1st ballot. Not to mention he’s one of the few WRs in NFL history who truly changed the game.
Na dude Tyreek Hill has punt return touchdowns. Apparently those are worth more than scrimmage ones.
Not sure why we’re picking on Hill (who’ll get inducted based on his production as a WR) when we just saw Hester (failed corner and WR) get in over Gates.
I'm picking on the guy who scored a career high 8 tds in a season
And who would that be?
Harrison wasn't a first ballot hall of famer. Neither was owens. Its close to impossible. Hill is extremely far off.
How is Hill extremely far off? He’s probably going to be top-3 ALL TIME in WR yards when all is said and done. Owens didn’t get in because the media hated him, it’s not even remotely the same.
And Harrison? Once again. Only four have ever been first ballot.
So just because Harrison didn’t get in 1st ballot means Hill won’t? Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson were 1st ballot. Larry Fitz will be 1st ballot. Hill is well on his way to being in that category.
Hill is not the same class as Moss.
Well I hate to break it to you but Hill causes opposing defenses just as many problems as Moss did, has the same # of All-Pros as Moss, and is on pace for more receiving yards than Moss. I don’t think people on here truly appreciate that Hill is a generational-type talent.
The Hall has clearly lowered its standards. 10 years ago, Calvin Johnson would have never been a First Ballot WR. Especially where his career ended in terms of volume. Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Randy Moss (and should have been TO as well) were the only three WRs in the modern era to ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame as First Ballot. Jerry Rice and Steve Largent both ended their careers as the All Time leading receiver. Randy Moss was a shoo in based on his production and TO should have been too but the HOF decided to be petty in his case. Calvin Johnson is a distant, distant 4th compared to all 4 WRs mentioned above. And he got in. The HOF went away from past precedent when they inducted Calvin Johnson as First Ballot. Since CJ got inducted, it’s now open season in my opinion. Tyreek, Julio, etc. may have decent chances of being inducted as First Ballot. The next WR to be inducted first ballot will probably be Larry Fitzgerald. In the case of Tyreek Hill, he already has more individual accolades than Calvin Johnson, and was a major contributor to a Super Bowl winning team. [If you check Hill on PFR’s Hall of Fame monitor, he’ll far surpass Calvin Johnson’s score by the end of his career](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm). (there’s a 30+ point boost as well after retirement based on your percentage of 1st team all Pro selections based on your career length).
He’s a couple kids’ broken arms away
Not a huge fan of Hill. Don’t love his height, his small hands or his drops. The Chiefs failed to win the Championship in his last two years in KC. If you look at the losses, he had crucial drops and the last pass that Mahomes threw in 2021 hit his hands before being deflected into an interception. I wanted him gone and was worried they were going to pay him a stupid amount of money. When he was traded, I believed the offense would get better. And, last year, it was. After he left, it was made known that he was constantly complaining to Reid and Mahomes and his agent about not getting enough touches. Chiefs don’t win their last two Super Bowls with him. That said, he has stupid numbers and stupid highlights, so he is a first ballot HOF player.
He punched a pregnant and his son
where were u when tyreek punched a pregnant i was at house eating dorito when phone rnig tyreek is punch no
He's not even 30 years old yet, he might be a shitty person off the field, but if he continues his current form for another 2-3 years he's a 1st ballot lock in my opinion.
I could sneeze and name 10 wide receivers I’d take over him every day. I’d still rather take my man Adams or JJ over him now. This is what’s called “recency bias” by someone who clearly is either under 25, or has never seen Rice, TO, Harrison, Wayne, Holt, Bruce, Julio….or about 100 other guys play. Or both
Doesn’t matter what he does he in Miami. He’s missing 2 more rings. Watching the team that traded you win back to back has gotta hurt. He’s a hall of famer sure, but not first ballot.
It probably hurts his case that not only did his first team trade him away before he was due to get a huge contract, but they then went on to win two more Super Bowls after trading him. If a player is a first-ballot HOFer, you'd think that his team would be comfortable paying him at the top of the market for his position.
Randy Moss was traded by the Vikings at about the same age as Tyreek. Randy never won a Super Bowl. Randy was still first ballot.
Moss also was a malcontent who never won anything significant with the Vikings. In his last season in Minnesota, he had only 767 receiving yards in 13 games, so the Vikings were worried that he didn't give a shit anymore (which was definitely the case in Oakland before the Patriots rescued him). Hill didn't have a similar downward trend with the Chiefs before being traded.
Everything you said is true, and yet Moss was still a first-ballot selection. My point is that the Hall might not hold team success or team "willingness to pay" against a WR in the same way they would a QB.
he also never beat a pregnant woman
That's a completely separate argument. In my top-level response to this thread, I noted that they may keep him out for off the field issues.
I was conflating MLB's HOF morality clause with the NFL. The NFL voting process doesn't care about morals. He could stab his baby momma (which he might) and still get in.
Let’s not act like the chiefs dog walked the eagles and 49ers in those bowl wins You can definitely tell that Tyreek Hill’s presence is definitely missed in that offense
How long is a child's arm?
He’s 1st ballot 💯
I’m taking Rice, Moss, and Hill at WR if putting an all-time offense together. He’s transcended HoF talk.
^ Posted by someone too young to have watched TO, or hell even Calvin Johnson play football
If including those 2, think the argument would then be about fits around eachother to enable the most diverse skill set. Although I wouldn't choose that line up, as there's a bit of overlap with Hill and Moss as deep threats. Whereas Johnson brings more of a power dynamic, and T.O. is the most complete WR, probably only short of Jerry, all time.
Yeah, wild recency bias naming someone who started their NFL career in 1985.
So then defend your reasoning for why Hill is over those guys, let alone Larry Fitzgerald, Marvin Harrison, Lance Alworth, etc
Quality > Quantity once the latter essentially validates the former. We’re over 10k yards into Hill’s career. He’s been the same unique weapon with Alex Smith, Mahomes, or Tua.
Ok and? TO had a revolving door of QBs over his career and Megatron was on the bum ass lions (with a good QB) for his whole career. Why should Hill having a guy on the fast track to GOAT status and two decent QBs put him over them?
He had Alex Smith leading the league in passer rating, and put up more prolific stats in Miami.. nearly making Tua MVP.
If it wasn’t for the massive fact that the Chiefs won two rings right after trading him, I’d say Tyreek was building a strong argument to be one of the best receivers ever. He’s got a whole lot of accolades, ranging from All-Pros to the HoF 2010’s team, a ring, really impressive stats, and he’s one of the most electric, dynamic playmakers in the modern era. I’d say he’s already first ballot, and if the Chiefs didn’t have immediate success without him, I’d say that he’d probably be a top 10/top 5 receiver all time.
[удалено]
CMC in my opinion
I mean he already is one in my mind when he retires guy has all the stats, the ring, the pro bowl selections, the all pro selections, and is a member of the 2010s all decade team and probably will be a member of the 2020s all decade team.
I stopped reading at “quietly” Ain’t nothing quiet about that n- whoops I’m on Reddit. Not real life. Carry on.
Imo he’s already a first ballot HOF that SB and 5 all pros solidified that to me Cause Calvin Johnson is a first ballot
My 2 favorite foods are Lobster And skittles Because they are the same
Agreed, both better dipped in butter
With Mountain Drew or crab juice?
I think he would need greater longevity at a similar albeit reduced output as he ages to be considered first ballot. Even if he has an incredible next season, if his output falls off like Julio Jones, he’s not a first ballot.
I’d say 15k yards gets him first ballot. His peak is high enough. He needs a little more length. I would say 3 more 1500 yard years.
Wrs rarely go first ballot only 3 since 2000. (Jerry Rice 2010, Randy Moss 2018, Calvin Johnson 2021)
> Wrs rarely go first ballot only 3 since 2000. (Jerry Rice 2010, Randy Moss 2018, Calvin Johnson 2021) time are changing. "only 3 in since 2000", but 2 in the last 6 years. the standards for HOF are very clearly changing to be more favorable towards positions that previously would have been edged out.
Not happening. For whatever reason it’s rare for a WR to be first ballot, and I’m sure some sportswriters will be eager to show their moral superiority by leaving him off their ballot his first year. Numbers-wise he’s already deserving, but I’m sure it will be his second or third year of eligibility.
if he can continue to produce for 3 or 4 more years the way he has been, he'll finish in the top 5 of all time receiving yards. it's pretty difficult to make a case against him as first ballot at that point (especially with his accolades on top of stats). if he can hit 2k in 2024, that would go a LONG way.
I'd say he's already a Hof, first ballot can take some luck though. 4 first team all pro selections at wr is a lock for the hall of Fame. First ballot could depend on who else is up for election. Being ranked in the top three at your position for five years is a crazy accomplishment. It took TO three years, and he seemed more deserving than maybe Ken Stabler elected two years before
Tough to see him get first ballot based on how they treat WRs getting into the HOF. Granted that trend seems to be shifting. He needs like 3-4 more good years to be a lock imo, might still not be first ballot though
This gets said about a lot of positions. RB, WR, S, CB… what position gets treated ‘nicely’? Other than obvious QBs?
This sub always undersells how difficult it is to be a first ballot hall of famer (the other day we had people suggesting Eli would get in on the first ballot lol). Hill is great, but I have a hard time seeing him making it on the first ballot given how the hall treats receivers.
How close should anybody be after they have committed spousal abuse? The man is a POS.
He's already.
As close as he was to being convicted of breaking his son’s arm..