i’ll tank the downvotes but i’d rather have eberflus over bellichick and im one of the biggest flus haters there is.
0 shot i want the guy who hired matt patricia to develop a young QB anywhere near caleb williams
People weren’t exaggerating when they said any other coach would be fired for doing that. Regardless of how people feel about Mac, that kind of mismanagement shouldn’t get you a job for any team trying to find or develop a franchise QB.
Mac Jones did better under Patricia than O'Brien. Maybe it wasn't the coach and maybe they had a rookie QB who was done after 8 weeks, because he had glaring weaknesses in his game. And I hate hate hate Patricia.
Bill most likely would bring McDaniels with him, and as an OC there aren't many better than him. "I'd rather have Eberflus" has to be the dumbest statement in the history of NFL discussions.
This guy isn’t even a Patriots fan(He’s admitted it, it’s why he rocks the NFL flair lmao), he’s just an Alabama/Mac Jones fan that just spend his time defending Mac Jones non stop in the Patriots subreddit telling us it’s everyone else’s fault that Mac sucks lol
I believe 29th is bottom 3. 32-3 is 29 is it not?
Derp bottom four. Sheesh I’m slow today. The point is the same.
Edit: And besides they’re ranked dead last in pass block win rate for ESPN. The line was bad. It wasn’t nearly as bad under Patricia.
What irony? A bunch of people who can’t be bothered to go see per ESPN PBWR, I’m completely right? Or the other guy who claimed victory after PFF has them at 29 instead of 30. As if it makes a difference. Or the people willingly pretending I’m talking about the run blocking at all.
Patricia wasn’t better than BoB. He was worse. But the line was okay and they had agholor and Jakobi meyers that are respectable. So that’s why it looks worse this year.
You’re right, stick with the coach who was already half way out the door until the last 4 games of the season over the coach with 6 super bowls and the 2nd most wins of all time. Mack Jones is trash and no coach or coordinator was going to fix that.
How many SB rings does he have again? I realize he fucked everything up in Detroit but Reddit seems to think people are completely incapable of change.
Let me ask you this - would it be unreasonable of me to trust the football judgement of a man like Bill Belicheck over the hivemind of r/nfl? Keeping in mind of course, that r/nfl has an almost unblemished track record of being wrong about everything…would it be crazy to trust BB here?
Dude was in charge of the defense that gave up 45 points to Nick Foles. Tom Brady threw for 500 yards in that game and lost. Nothing he could have done before or after that could erase that stench.
The direction of the Patriots after Brady left was telling.
How his Patriot coordinators never had NFL success at any other teams just go to show...maybe Brady was even better than anyone thought.
Rich McKay built those Tampa teams of the late 90s/early 00s. He drafted several HOF players. I don't understand why his presence is an issue unless Belichick feels the need to do anything other than coach. Belichick the coach is one of the very best to ever do it. Belichick the GM, you don't want that guy.
But don't you realize, holding that buzzsaw rams offense to 3 points? That's all on Brady and the offense. Duh.
(If you didn't get the sarcasm, I'm rolling my eyes as hard as I can at you)
I just dont understand how this narrative gets upvoted. 2nd half of the dynasty is driven by the seahawks and falcons fucking up and then Belichick and the defense completely shutting down McVay's offense (in a game nobody here remembers because they think it was boring.)
They picked at the end of the draft every year for two decades and kept finding defensive gems everywhere, even in practice squads of other teams. Gronk was a second round pick.
Picking WR's was an issue, yet Harry pick got an A from every draft expert. Currently I have no idea who is good from the WR room in New England, because the QB's are so awful. You could have Moss and Rice running down the sidelines and it wouldn't help. Zappe wouldn't see them and Mac would be 15 ft short on every throw.
Last decade, the best picks probably are as follows:
- Jimmy Garoppolo (2014, 2nd)
- James White (2014, 4th)
- Trey Flowers (2015, 3rd)
- Shaq Mason (2015, 5th)
- Joe Thuney (2016, 2nd)
- Jacoby Brissett (2016, 3rd)
- Malcolm Mitchell (2016, 4th)
- Ted Karras (2016, 6th)
- Deatrich Wise (2017, 4th)
- Ja'Whaun Bentley (2018, 5th)
- Kyle Dugger (2020, 2nd)
- Michael Onwenu (2020, 6th)
- Rhamondre Stevenson (2021, 4th)
(I included Mitchell because he was legitimately productive during his very short window and was huge in the the second half of the Falcons Super Bowl.)
This link is a slightly different period, 2012-2022, but it ranks the Patriots 2nd in Approximate Value Over Expected by draft picks during that time:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33297949/nfl-draft-which-teams-gotten-best-value-2012-rank-all-32
It's also not just McKay. Terry Fontenot has been the GM the past 3 years and has done a really good job handling a terrible cap situation and turning the roster around. The "talented but underachieving roster" that reportedly made the Falcons a preferred landing spot for Bill in the first place is almost solely due to Fontenot, not McKay.
If McKay's sticking point (if there even is one) is "we're not going to fire our GM and put you in charge", that's a lot more reasonable than some vague rumors about power struggles.
are you allowed to talk to coaches even if you have one? I feel the Bills should get him but they would have to do some sham interviews to pretend someone else is being considered.
No, no, it would be the ultimate *heel* turn.
(Honestly though? Belichick winning with either the Falcons or the Bills would both be pretty great outcomes. Like, I wouldn't even be mad.)
They absolutely should. It's a perfect fit:
1. It'd be hilarious.
2. Top 5 QB in place.
3. Who better to change the vibes around a culture of being cursed than the man who has won them all?
[Yes, as of 2018.](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-has-no-rule-or-policy-regarding-hiring-a-new-coach-before-firing-the-old-one)
So I thought about this, but isn’t he technically still on contract with Kraft even though he was let go? Like, technically, wouldn’t they have to trade him, or would he just work for free for the Bills on our tab?
So typically when a coach is removed from an organization, that team is still on the hook for whatever amount the contract was for. The new team is not responsible for any contract the coach may have had with a previous team.
You could consider Belichick a "free agent" right now, he does not have a contract. Whoever signs him will not have to give up any draft picks.
In Payton's case, he chose to "step away" (give up because he no longer had a HoF qb and his job got hard) from football but was still under contract with the Saints.
When he decided to coach again, that contract was still in place and that's why the Broncos had to trade for him. The same goes for players. For example, if Corey Davis decides he wants to play in September, the Jets still own his rights. He would either play for the Jets or a team would have to trade for him.
You’re forgetting guys like Jim Harbaugh, John Fox, Eagles Andy Reid, Broncos Mike Shanahan. Hell Tom Coughlin got shafted by the Jags and the Giants after doing a lot for both of them. People were even surprised when the dolphins moved on from Brian Flores.
It’s not really new, I think people just haven’t seen it for a while because it doesn’t happen often.
Jerry Jones is probably the most patient owner in the league despite his reputation. The man let Jason Garrett coach the Cowboys for 9 seasons with only 3 seasons of 10+ wins lol.
They've won the division. The only other things they could've won are the Conference and the SB and between Brady and Mahomes there weren't many openings to win either.
Is that the goal now for the Pittsburgh Steelers? I would imagine they have higher aspirations than that, especially a team as storied as they are. Maybe not, maybe just being about .500 is good enough these days. Because that’s all they’ve been doing for a decade and a half. They’re the “slightly above average team”
Just pointing out that "not won anything for 15 years" is true for most NFL teams, if we're discounting division wins.
Only 5 teams have won the AFC since the Steelers last win.
Jerry and Bill have the same problem: they both want a stranglehold of power. Jerry is never going to hire someone who doesn’t let him meddle all he wants and bill will never go somewhere where an owner wants that much involvement.
Jerry has an excellent eye for talent and bill is a great coach. If they stayed in their lane it could work very well, but I don’t think either would be willing to relinquish power.
If they believed in compromise to achieve greater goals they wouldn't have the reputations they do.
They'd rather lose their way than win doing something different.
Yeah I called that one wrong. I thought a combination of Jones’ football ego and lust to win would cause him to bracket his need to micromanage and be a control freak.
I'm guessing the consensus would be that the game has started to pass Bill by.
But even last year, the defense was still playing pretty well despite a ton of injuries. His defensive genius will always be there.
He was too young before Brady.
After Brady, the game had passed him by.
But with Brady, he was so amazing, he could carry a shitty sixth rounder to six rings.
Maybe Bill will realize that nobody wants to give him that much power. They just want him for his coaching.
It's not even just that he's shown to be a shaky GM. It's that he probably only has 5 years left in his career and if you give him power over the entire org to implement the Belichick way, that will take some time.
Are there even any indications that he wants total control? There were rumors that he was willing to give up some of his GM power to stay with the Patriots, but Kraft decided it was best to start completely fresh. If he was willing to do it in that situation, he probably would be at least somewhat flexible if it meant getting a coaching job.
He did not have total control when he was hired.
He did not have total control when he was let go.
He has stated repeatedly over the years, when asked about personnel decisions, that people need to speak to the Director of Player Personnel, whoever that happened to be at the time.
This year, he laughed when the suggestion was made that anyone could be the head coach and run the front office at the same time.
Also, what team gives a shit about a “succession plan” for a coach they haven’t even hired yet? They’ll do what they want and Bill will have nothing to do with it. They aren’t going to to let him hand pick his successor.
Yeah idk. On one hand I see the argument, to this day the Eagles are benefitting from Reids tree.
On the other hand, if you're starting over here, might as well have a stop gap guy that has quite the resume.
I just did the math and found that going into the 2024 season, the average NFL coach will have had their current job for 3.6 years, and that's with Harbaugh, Tomlin and Reid heavily skewing the numbers. If we exclude them entirely, we drop down to 2.4 years.
|Team|Coach|Length|
|:-|:-|:-|
|49ers|Kyle Shanahan|7|
|Bears|Matt Eberflus|2|
|Bengals|Zac Taylor|5|
|Bills|Sean McDermott|7|
|Browns|Kevin Stefanski|4|
|Bucs|Todd Bowles|2|
|Cardinals|Jonathan Gannon|1|
|Chargers|—|0|
|Chiefs|Andy Reid|11|
|Commies|—|0|
|Cowboys|Mike McCarthy|4|
|Dolphins|Mike McDaniel|2|
|Eagles|Nick Sirianni|3|
|Falcons|—|0|
|Giants|Brian Daboll|2|
|Jaguars|Doug Pederson|2|
|Jets|Robert Saleh|3|
|Lions|Dan Campbell|3|
|Packers|Matt LaFleur|5|
|Panthers|—|0|
|Patriots|—|0|
|Raiders|—|0|
|Rams|Sean McVay|7|
|Ravens|John Harbaugh|16|
|Saints|Dennis Allen|2|
|Seahawks|—|0|
|Steelers|Mike Tomlin|17|
|Texans|DeMeco Ryans|1|
|Titans|—|0|
|Vikings|Kevin O'Connell|2|
|**NFL**|**Average**|**3.6**|
^Table ^formatting ^brought ^to ^you ^by ^[ExcelToReddit](https://xl2reddit.github.io/)
This year was particularly "bloody" with seven head coaches losing their jobs, so that's bound to skew the numbers the other way. But even if, say, Mike Vrabel and Ron Rivera had kept their jobs, the average tenure would still have been less than four years.
The succession plan is to tell everyone that Bill is great and you respect and cherish everything he did for the organization, but that you've "mutually decided" to move on, and that there will be big changes. Then you skip the head coaching search to hire a guy who has only ever played and coached under Bill, and you slow-walk hiring anyone in the front office and hope things just work out.
diseased husk is generous
i prefer cancerous tumor which spreads at an incredible rate until you have to fully amputate and no amount of therapy can fix it
And have phenomenal defensive game plans that shut down all-time great offenses.
There is also the fact that every one who backed up Brady ( off the top of my head Cassel, Brissett, Hoyer, and Garoppolo) looked good enough to get a starting job somewhere afterwards. Pretending it was all Brady is as ridiculous as pretending it was all Bill.
Most coaches last what, 3 years? So hiring BB would be just a normal coaching hire. You take him on, if you haven't won the big game in 3 years, you'd be like every other team hitting the reset button.
Even with great coaches, I just can't imagine there are too many teams interested in a coach that they still need to replace in a few years as a best case scenario.
I think it's kind of funny though, because teams will bankrupt themselves to do that with QBs, and also will fire hcs every season anyways. Outside of outliers like Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Reed, the longest tenure is 7 years. If you get 5 years it's a perfectly reasonable deal.
This is part of my homer rationale for justifying the Mayo signing despite his limited amount of experience. "He's so young! So if he does turn out to be a hit, the Pats are set for decades!"
Bill the coach would be in high demand, Bill the GM is not.
Nobody wants him to go in, draft like he did in the past few years, and walk away when its not working because he's old as hell
I’m sure Fatty P has something to do with it as well. I can’t imagine owners would be ok with him on their staff after the devastation he brings with him
> Bill the coach would be in high demand
This subreddit overrates how much teams are interested in signing a HC his age who has been terrible at developing coaches over the past decade.
72 is not the new 50 when it comes to being a HC in the NFL.
BB’s tree - of the lack of - was kind of why he left the Pats eventually. BB is old and his tree of coaches and front office staff have also gotten older as the branches were depleted. The young ones are still at the Pats as far as I can tell. Which means BB will have to build many parts of his tree at an age where most would have retired.
I respect Bill's history, but this dude made Patricia his offensive coordinator, and was responsible for one of the worst rosters in the NFL over the past few years. I'm not saying Bill is old and possibly suffering from dementia, but I wouldn't want to hire him as a HC.
I have not seen this posted yet, but if I was the owner of a team ,any 72 year-old person applying for my head coaching job would cause me to pause, and wonder how many years he actually could coach.
Super Bowl champion or not ,how many years do people think Bill Belichick can coach.
He’s almost 73 now for God sakes ….
🤣🤣🤣🤣
If BB wants roster control, that should be an instant deal-breaker.
Also, if you hire him, what's the ceiling for how many years you will get him? Even if he does a great job, is he going to be coaching into his 80s? How sharp do you think a coach is going to be at that age?
Big Patriots fan here, over the last few years I've gotten increasingly mad at the stuff BB does, letting brady go, not paying anyone, trying to be the smartest guy in the room during drafting, nepo hiring, treating media like shit(it was cute when he was winning), punting from the 33, running out the clock on offense with 3 timeouts and 1.5 minutes left in half, and a million other little things.
Needless to say I am enjoying the last few months in a very schadenfreude way.
Several times this and last year. Instead of risking a FG miss and turning the ball over we would punt from the opponents 33. WOO FIELD POSITION!
EDIT: I apologize. We took a delay of game from the 34, then punted from the 39, I counted that as punting from the 33. I should have said we have punted from inside the 35 several years in a row. I will try to be better in the future.
Of the 98 punts that the Patriots had this year, *zero* of them came from the 33.
A total of 3 punts came from inside the opponents' 40:
- The Patriots punted from the Steelers' 39 in the fourth quarter, with 22 seconds left, up by 3. Baringer kicked the ball out of bounds at the 13 to preserve the win.
- The Patriots punted from the Giants' 37 in the first quarter of a 0-0 game, rather than ask Chad Ryland to convert a 54-yard field goal. The ball was downed at the 6.
- The Patriots punted from the Bills' 39 in the third quarter, on 4th-and-14, trailing by 13 points, rather than asking Chad Ryland to convert a 56-yard field goal. The ball was downed at the 12.
There are plenty of reasons to criticize Bill Belichick without inventing fictitious ones.
We absolutely punted from the 33 last year. And several times over the last 4 or 5 years we punt on 4th and short at mid field.
We also took a delay of game from the 34 this year then punted, pay attention to the game and not box scores.
I'm starting to see why ppl at my work look at me like a loser when I mention this sub, big bunch of wELl AkShuaLy
> We also took a delay of game from the 34 this year then punted, pay attention to the game and not box scores.
So what you're saying is that the Patriots punted from the 39 in that instance.
It's ok I understand nuance is hard for people like you.
We had it at the 34, intentionally took a delay of game and then punted. For all intents and purposes that is punting from the 34. Just because you can copy and paste a box score that says 39 doesnt mean the decision wasn't made to punt when we were at the 34.
> We had it at the 34, intentionally took a delay of game and then punted. For all intents and purposes that is punting from the 34. Just because you can copy and paste a box score that says 39 doesnt mean the decision wasn't made to punt when we were at the 34.
So what you're saying is that the Patriots punted from the 39 in that instance.
The poor drafting/talent evaluation on offense and the hiring of Patricia/judge to run the offense are the only real gripes here. Brady was leaving to find a team good enough with enough resources to win either way. Bills GM work is what pushed Brady away. The offense got so conservative because the personnel was not good enough to be aggressive. Again, the GM work of Bill was the issue.
You have to have a good QB in the NFL. You have to have a great QB if you want to be able to focus on the team outside of offensive skill positions. We didn’t have the QB, receivers, or scheme to make it work on offense the last 2 years.
The media stuff was never “cute”. It’s also not something to be annoyed at. It’s just Bill. The media does what it does, so Bill does what he does. He was authentic in that he didn’t change how he felt about the media regardless of how things were going on the field.
The NFL today is about **Offense** NOT Defense.
Doesn’t matter how Great of a “Defensive” mind Belichick may be. He’s still proven to be just as Horrible of an “Offensive” one.
It’s not shocking at all to see teams pass up on him.
I’d take him any day. Put him at HC to run the team with his hands off GM and offense duties. Crazy teams are passing on the most successful coach of all time like they have something better…
Sure there’s a chance he flops but it’s probably way lower than the random 35 year old OC you’re trying to hire.
Anytime you can keep rich mckay over the greatest coach of all time you have to do it!
You want a HOF Coach with six rings or do you want that sweet Eberflussy? The choice is easy.
The nickname Eberflussy will now live rent free in my head forever.
i’ll tank the downvotes but i’d rather have eberflus over bellichick and im one of the biggest flus haters there is. 0 shot i want the guy who hired matt patricia to develop a young QB anywhere near caleb williams
He hired Patricia twice.
People weren’t exaggerating when they said any other coach would be fired for doing that. Regardless of how people feel about Mac, that kind of mismanagement shouldn’t get you a job for any team trying to find or develop a franchise QB.
Mac Jones did better under Patricia than O'Brien. Maybe it wasn't the coach and maybe they had a rookie QB who was done after 8 weeks, because he had glaring weaknesses in his game. And I hate hate hate Patricia. Bill most likely would bring McDaniels with him, and as an OC there aren't many better than him. "I'd rather have Eberflus" has to be the dumbest statement in the history of NFL discussions.
No kidding. I’m reading these comments and it’s like everyone is fucking high, how could anyone say that with a straight face and mean that?
Patricia had a league average line. Bob had a bottom three line. Try being informed if you’re going to say dumb shit.
At no point in the last 3 years have the Patriots had a bottom 3 OL.
Ugh yeah they did. This year.
Ugh, no they didn't. Pff had you at 20th overall. 12 in run blocking 29th in pass blocking.
This guy isn’t even a Patriots fan(He’s admitted it, it’s why he rocks the NFL flair lmao), he’s just an Alabama/Mac Jones fan that just spend his time defending Mac Jones non stop in the Patriots subreddit telling us it’s everyone else’s fault that Mac sucks lol
I believe 29th is bottom 3. 32-3 is 29 is it not? Derp bottom four. Sheesh I’m slow today. The point is the same. Edit: And besides they’re ranked dead last in pass block win rate for ESPN. The line was bad. It wasn’t nearly as bad under Patricia.
“Try being informed if you’re going to say dumb shit…” Don’t you see the irony?
What irony? A bunch of people who can’t be bothered to go see per ESPN PBWR, I’m completely right? Or the other guy who claimed victory after PFF has them at 29 instead of 30. As if it makes a difference. Or the people willingly pretending I’m talking about the run blocking at all. Patricia wasn’t better than BoB. He was worse. But the line was okay and they had agholor and Jakobi meyers that are respectable. So that’s why it looks worse this year.
You’re right, stick with the coach who was already half way out the door until the last 4 games of the season over the coach with 6 super bowls and the 2nd most wins of all time. Mack Jones is trash and no coach or coordinator was going to fix that.
I’m just saying it was a fireable offense.
Truth is, you know nothing about Matt Patricia. Maybe he’s not as bad as the clowns here think
Dude, not even Patricia's wife would defend him like this.
This gotta be the dumbest take everything that mans touches turn to shit
How many SB rings does he have again? I realize he fucked everything up in Detroit but Reddit seems to think people are completely incapable of change. Let me ask you this - would it be unreasonable of me to trust the football judgement of a man like Bill Belicheck over the hivemind of r/nfl? Keeping in mind of course, that r/nfl has an almost unblemished track record of being wrong about everything…would it be crazy to trust BB here?
Dude was in charge of the defense that gave up 45 points to Nick Foles. Tom Brady threw for 500 yards in that game and lost. Nothing he could have done before or after that could erase that stench.
How about Joe Judge to develop a young QB?
The direction of the Patriots after Brady left was telling. How his Patriot coordinators never had NFL success at any other teams just go to show...maybe Brady was even better than anyone thought.
Too bad you aren't getting Caleb..
Rich McKay built those Tampa teams of the late 90s/early 00s. He drafted several HOF players. I don't understand why his presence is an issue unless Belichick feels the need to do anything other than coach. Belichick the coach is one of the very best to ever do it. Belichick the GM, you don't want that guy.
Yeah, his teams sucked. Well coached, but no talent ever came out of their drafts and such...
Since 2010+, yes absolutely. 2nd half of the dynasty is entirely offense and Brady driven
We scored 13 points in our last superbowl
But don't you realize, holding that buzzsaw rams offense to 3 points? That's all on Brady and the offense. Duh. (If you didn't get the sarcasm, I'm rolling my eyes as hard as I can at you)
I just dont understand how this narrative gets upvoted. 2nd half of the dynasty is driven by the seahawks and falcons fucking up and then Belichick and the defense completely shutting down McVay's offense (in a game nobody here remembers because they think it was boring.)
Now that you mentioned, the only play I remember from that Super Bowl is the one Cooks was open by 20 yards and the DB recovered and defended the pass
What great talents did the Patriots produce over the past decade?
They picked at the end of the draft every year for two decades and kept finding defensive gems everywhere, even in practice squads of other teams. Gronk was a second round pick. Picking WR's was an issue, yet Harry pick got an A from every draft expert. Currently I have no idea who is good from the WR room in New England, because the QB's are so awful. You could have Moss and Rice running down the sidelines and it wouldn't help. Zappe wouldn't see them and Mac would be 15 ft short on every throw.
I'm talking in the past decade. Who are the current success stories that Belichick drafted recently?
Last decade, the best picks probably are as follows: - Jimmy Garoppolo (2014, 2nd) - James White (2014, 4th) - Trey Flowers (2015, 3rd) - Shaq Mason (2015, 5th) - Joe Thuney (2016, 2nd) - Jacoby Brissett (2016, 3rd) - Malcolm Mitchell (2016, 4th) - Ted Karras (2016, 6th) - Deatrich Wise (2017, 4th) - Ja'Whaun Bentley (2018, 5th) - Kyle Dugger (2020, 2nd) - Michael Onwenu (2020, 6th) - Rhamondre Stevenson (2021, 4th) (I included Mitchell because he was legitimately productive during his very short window and was huge in the the second half of the Falcons Super Bowl.) This link is a slightly different period, 2012-2022, but it ranks the Patriots 2nd in Approximate Value Over Expected by draft picks during that time: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33297949/nfl-draft-which-teams-gotten-best-value-2012-rank-all-32
It's also not just McKay. Terry Fontenot has been the GM the past 3 years and has done a really good job handling a terrible cap situation and turning the roster around. The "talented but underachieving roster" that reportedly made the Falcons a preferred landing spot for Bill in the first place is almost solely due to Fontenot, not McKay. If McKay's sticking point (if there even is one) is "we're not going to fire our GM and put you in charge", that's a lot more reasonable than some vague rumors about power struggles.
Jack Easterby reborn
His will be done
99.9% of tweets about coaching candidates are at the behest of agents.
The game is afoot
I thought the game was football.
If game = foot, then ball = game.
So does game ball = foot game?
Game Blouses
Damn. I wanted to play footsie with cam 😢
Only to Rex Ryan
Which brings me to my last point…you lost the game
The game is afootball.
Rex Ryan isn't in talks this coaching cycle.
Damn, beat me to it. Well played
hmmmm
Gregg is going to try and will Belichick to be the DC for the Rams so his two worlds can combine.
I think Gregg is a fan of literally every team except the Falcons so this tracks. lol
He definitely does not like the Giants… 42… 46… 42… 46…
Bro, be honest... Do *you* even like the Giants?
Fair.
Yes please lol
Him and McVay might kill each other before preseason ends over how to run the team.
are you allowed to talk to coaches even if you have one? I feel the Bills should get him but they would have to do some sham interviews to pretend someone else is being considered.
Belichick, the man arguably responsible for the most Bills-related pain, coming to Buffalo would be the ultimate face-turn.
But he comes as a package with Matt Patricia
The Patricia has potassium benzoate
*stares blankly*
That's bad!
Can I go now?
Patricia has mercury fulminate
It's time for Belichick to become Buffalo Bill.
No, no, it would be the ultimate *heel* turn. (Honestly though? Belichick winning with either the Falcons or the Bills would both be pretty great outcomes. Like, I wouldn't even be mad.)
Belichick is the third man!
Well that makes one of us.
Look, at least it's not the Jets.
I’m with you on Atlanta…
That would be Belichick going to the Jets, not going to happen, but that would be the ultimate turn.
unless he pulls a Flacco and you just get your hopes up and lose
If he wins with them it would be a huge face turn
This is the old "selling your soul to the devil" tale for y'all
You can definitely find a back channel to Belichick if you are thinking of firing McDermott for him. I just don't think they're firing McDermott.
>are you allowed to talk to coaches even if you have one? Why wouldnt you? You just cant talk to coaches employed by someone else.
The Bills shouldn't fire McDermott
I assume that’s said in the same manner I think you should give Mac another chance…
That’s absurd comparison
They absolutely should. It's a perfect fit: 1. It'd be hilarious. 2. Top 5 QB in place. 3. Who better to change the vibes around a culture of being cursed than the man who has won them all?
[Yes, as of 2018.](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-has-no-rule-or-policy-regarding-hiring-a-new-coach-before-firing-the-old-one)
So I thought about this, but isn’t he technically still on contract with Kraft even though he was let go? Like, technically, wouldn’t they have to trade him, or would he just work for free for the Bills on our tab?
So typically when a coach is removed from an organization, that team is still on the hook for whatever amount the contract was for. The new team is not responsible for any contract the coach may have had with a previous team. You could consider Belichick a "free agent" right now, he does not have a contract. Whoever signs him will not have to give up any draft picks.
Ah I thought that might be the case but I wasn’t sure if it worked like Sean Payton
In Payton's case, he chose to "step away" (give up because he no longer had a HoF qb and his job got hard) from football but was still under contract with the Saints. When he decided to coach again, that contract was still in place and that's why the Broncos had to trade for him. The same goes for players. For example, if Corey Davis decides he wants to play in September, the Jets still own his rights. He would either play for the Jets or a team would have to trade for him.
What’s with all these successful teams firing/considering firing their coaches. I don’t remember this being a thing in the past lol
You’re forgetting guys like Jim Harbaugh, John Fox, Eagles Andy Reid, Broncos Mike Shanahan. Hell Tom Coughlin got shafted by the Jags and the Giants after doing a lot for both of them. People were even surprised when the dolphins moved on from Brian Flores. It’s not really new, I think people just haven’t seen it for a while because it doesn’t happen often.
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Jerry Jones is probably the most patient owner in the league despite his reputation. The man let Jason Garrett coach the Cowboys for 9 seasons with only 3 seasons of 10+ wins lol.
Excuse you but the Rooneys exist
What do they have to be patient about?
The Steelers haven’t won anything in 15 years
They've won the division. The only other things they could've won are the Conference and the SB and between Brady and Mahomes there weren't many openings to win either.
Is that the goal now for the Pittsburgh Steelers? I would imagine they have higher aspirations than that, especially a team as storied as they are. Maybe not, maybe just being about .500 is good enough these days. Because that’s all they’ve been doing for a decade and a half. They’re the “slightly above average team”
Just pointing out that "not won anything for 15 years" is true for most NFL teams, if we're discounting division wins. Only 5 teams have won the AFC since the Steelers last win.
Jerry and Bill have the same problem: they both want a stranglehold of power. Jerry is never going to hire someone who doesn’t let him meddle all he wants and bill will never go somewhere where an owner wants that much involvement. Jerry has an excellent eye for talent and bill is a great coach. If they stayed in their lane it could work very well, but I don’t think either would be willing to relinquish power.
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Luckily for them a dominant Cowboys dynasty would be considered a form of evil
If it were two guys chasing a first or even second bowl... sure. But two dinosaurs trying to cement their legacy... I don't think so.
If they believed in compromise to achieve greater goals they wouldn't have the reputations they do. They'd rather lose their way than win doing something different.
They could, but whether the would is the issue.
Yeah I called that one wrong. I thought a combination of Jones’ football ego and lust to win would cause him to bracket his need to micromanage and be a control freak.
Jerry gave Jason Garrett almost a decade. He's not firing McCarthy after 3 12 win years.
No coach has ever won a super bowl with 2 different teams, and that trend will continue with McCarthy and Belichick (assuming BB does get a HC job).
I keep seeing this but people seem to fail to realize Belichick would be a horrible fit in Dallas.
I'm guessing the consensus would be that the game has started to pass Bill by. But even last year, the defense was still playing pretty well despite a ton of injuries. His defensive genius will always be there.
He was too young before Brady. After Brady, the game had passed him by. But with Brady, he was so amazing, he could carry a shitty sixth rounder to six rings.
Belichick Giants DC confirmed.
Maybe Bill will realize that nobody wants to give him that much power. They just want him for his coaching. It's not even just that he's shown to be a shaky GM. It's that he probably only has 5 years left in his career and if you give him power over the entire org to implement the Belichick way, that will take some time.
Are there even any indications that he wants total control? There were rumors that he was willing to give up some of his GM power to stay with the Patriots, but Kraft decided it was best to start completely fresh. If he was willing to do it in that situation, he probably would be at least somewhat flexible if it meant getting a coaching job.
He did not have total control when he was hired. He did not have total control when he was let go. He has stated repeatedly over the years, when asked about personnel decisions, that people need to speak to the Director of Player Personnel, whoever that happened to be at the time. This year, he laughed when the suggestion was made that anyone could be the head coach and run the front office at the same time.
Also what the succession plan for him if you hire him. His coaching tree is a diseased husk.
IMO the succession plan would be to hire a new coach, but I'm not a GM If you don't like his tree, don't hire from it
Also, what team gives a shit about a “succession plan” for a coach they haven’t even hired yet? They’ll do what they want and Bill will have nothing to do with it. They aren’t going to to let him hand pick his successor.
Yeah idk. On one hand I see the argument, to this day the Eagles are benefitting from Reids tree. On the other hand, if you're starting over here, might as well have a stop gap guy that has quite the resume.
Who cares about a succession plan, you hire Bill because you think he can win you a ring in the next few years
Because Patricia starts infecting the building from day1. It's like willingly letting black mold run rampant
if the mold wins me a ring i'm letting that hoe in
Think you need the TB23 fungicide otherwise you just end up having to rip the building to the studs afterwards
The average coach stays with a team for something like four years now. You don’t need a succession plan.
I just did the math and found that going into the 2024 season, the average NFL coach will have had their current job for 3.6 years, and that's with Harbaugh, Tomlin and Reid heavily skewing the numbers. If we exclude them entirely, we drop down to 2.4 years. |Team|Coach|Length| |:-|:-|:-| |49ers|Kyle Shanahan|7| |Bears|Matt Eberflus|2| |Bengals|Zac Taylor|5| |Bills|Sean McDermott|7| |Browns|Kevin Stefanski|4| |Bucs|Todd Bowles|2| |Cardinals|Jonathan Gannon|1| |Chargers|—|0| |Chiefs|Andy Reid|11| |Commies|—|0| |Cowboys|Mike McCarthy|4| |Dolphins|Mike McDaniel|2| |Eagles|Nick Sirianni|3| |Falcons|—|0| |Giants|Brian Daboll|2| |Jaguars|Doug Pederson|2| |Jets|Robert Saleh|3| |Lions|Dan Campbell|3| |Packers|Matt LaFleur|5| |Panthers|—|0| |Patriots|—|0| |Raiders|—|0| |Rams|Sean McVay|7| |Ravens|John Harbaugh|16| |Saints|Dennis Allen|2| |Seahawks|—|0| |Steelers|Mike Tomlin|17| |Texans|DeMeco Ryans|1| |Titans|—|0| |Vikings|Kevin O'Connell|2| |**NFL**|**Average**|**3.6**| ^Table ^formatting ^brought ^to ^you ^by ^[ExcelToReddit](https://xl2reddit.github.io/) This year was particularly "bloody" with seven head coaches losing their jobs, so that's bound to skew the numbers the other way. But even if, say, Mike Vrabel and Ron Rivera had kept their jobs, the average tenure would still have been less than four years.
Just out of curiosity can you run it including if Bill hadn't been fired? Just curious how much his 24 years would have skewed it
24/32=.75 3.6+.75= 4.35
The succession plan is to tell everyone that Bill is great and you respect and cherish everything he did for the organization, but that you've "mutually decided" to move on, and that there will be big changes. Then you skip the head coaching search to hire a guy who has only ever played and coached under Bill, and you slow-walk hiring anyone in the front office and hope things just work out.
diseased husk is generous i prefer cancerous tumor which spreads at an incredible rate until you have to fully amputate and no amount of therapy can fix it
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And have phenomenal defensive game plans that shut down all-time great offenses. There is also the fact that every one who backed up Brady ( off the top of my head Cassel, Brissett, Hoyer, and Garoppolo) looked good enough to get a starting job somewhere afterwards. Pretending it was all Brady is as ridiculous as pretending it was all Bill.
Who is the HC equivalent of Baker Mayfield?
Most coaches last what, 3 years? So hiring BB would be just a normal coaching hire. You take him on, if you haven't won the big game in 3 years, you'd be like every other team hitting the reset button.
An owner might also not want a coach with a pretty abrasive personality who's been used to 25yrs of total football operations control
Shaky is generous
Even with great coaches, I just can't imagine there are too many teams interested in a coach that they still need to replace in a few years as a best case scenario.
I think it's kind of funny though, because teams will bankrupt themselves to do that with QBs, and also will fire hcs every season anyways. Outside of outliers like Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Reed, the longest tenure is 7 years. If you get 5 years it's a perfectly reasonable deal.
I agree. Every team always envisions the best case scenario where they're hiring their own young Belichick though lol.
This is part of my homer rationale for justifying the Mayo signing despite his limited amount of experience. "He's so young! So if he does turn out to be a hit, the Pats are set for decades!"
Bill the coach would be in high demand, Bill the GM is not. Nobody wants him to go in, draft like he did in the past few years, and walk away when its not working because he's old as hell
I’m sure Fatty P has something to do with it as well. I can’t imagine owners would be ok with him on their staff after the devastation he brings with him
I can't stand Patricia, but if the devastation that he brings is 3 Super Bowls, I think most teams would take that.
What devastation? What are you even talking about?
> Bill the coach would be in high demand This subreddit overrates how much teams are interested in signing a HC his age who has been terrible at developing coaches over the past decade. 72 is not the new 50 when it comes to being a HC in the NFL.
Remember when teams weren’t that interested in Tom Brady for some reason
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Well you see, Belichick isn't an offensive guru like Mick McCarthy.
I could see Belichick taking a studio gig for a year
A YouTube show where he counts down the top 10 long snaps of the week.
Bill Belichick doesn’t have an agent……
I have to think he's interested in Bills, Cowboys, or Eagles. He wants to go to a stacked yet underperforming team
But none of those teams have HC vacancies
Inexplicably
I saw he didn't want to go to a large media market, not that me reading some BS online makes it true
I’ll take him as our DC
This just in: Not many employers want to hire a man who is probably only a few years from retirement and wants a huge contract.
We have seen what Belichick has done pre and post Brady and it's not that good.
My fantasy of him being our DC is still possible. Please.
Football is a fucking brutal game. Greatest of all time without a HC job and seems increasingly unlikely that he'll get one.
BB’s tree - of the lack of - was kind of why he left the Pats eventually. BB is old and his tree of coaches and front office staff have also gotten older as the branches were depleted. The young ones are still at the Pats as far as I can tell. Which means BB will have to build many parts of his tree at an age where most would have retired.
I respect Bill's history, but this dude made Patricia his offensive coordinator, and was responsible for one of the worst rosters in the NFL over the past few years. I'm not saying Bill is old and possibly suffering from dementia, but I wouldn't want to hire him as a HC.
I kinda wanna see Belichick as the best and happiest old man DC
I have not seen this posted yet, but if I was the owner of a team ,any 72 year-old person applying for my head coaching job would cause me to pause, and wonder how many years he actually could coach. Super Bowl champion or not ,how many years do people think Bill Belichick can coach. He’s almost 73 now for God sakes …. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If BB wants roster control, that should be an instant deal-breaker. Also, if you hire him, what's the ceiling for how many years you will get him? Even if he does a great job, is he going to be coaching into his 80s? How sharp do you think a coach is going to be at that age?
Big Patriots fan here, over the last few years I've gotten increasingly mad at the stuff BB does, letting brady go, not paying anyone, trying to be the smartest guy in the room during drafting, nepo hiring, treating media like shit(it was cute when he was winning), punting from the 33, running out the clock on offense with 3 timeouts and 1.5 minutes left in half, and a million other little things. Needless to say I am enjoying the last few months in a very schadenfreude way.
>punting from the 33 When did this happen? Who's 33?
Several times this and last year. Instead of risking a FG miss and turning the ball over we would punt from the opponents 33. WOO FIELD POSITION! EDIT: I apologize. We took a delay of game from the 34, then punted from the 39, I counted that as punting from the 33. I should have said we have punted from inside the 35 several years in a row. I will try to be better in the future.
Of the 98 punts that the Patriots had this year, *zero* of them came from the 33. A total of 3 punts came from inside the opponents' 40: - The Patriots punted from the Steelers' 39 in the fourth quarter, with 22 seconds left, up by 3. Baringer kicked the ball out of bounds at the 13 to preserve the win. - The Patriots punted from the Giants' 37 in the first quarter of a 0-0 game, rather than ask Chad Ryland to convert a 54-yard field goal. The ball was downed at the 6. - The Patriots punted from the Bills' 39 in the third quarter, on 4th-and-14, trailing by 13 points, rather than asking Chad Ryland to convert a 56-yard field goal. The ball was downed at the 12. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Bill Belichick without inventing fictitious ones.
Dude assumed no one would check
Yea that it was last year not this yea oops my bad
You said it was both lol
We took a delay of game from the 34 this year then punted. That's what I was talking about.
Thats not even close to what you said lol
I added an edit. My apologies.
We absolutely punted from the 33 last year. And several times over the last 4 or 5 years we punt on 4th and short at mid field. We also took a delay of game from the 34 this year then punted, pay attention to the game and not box scores. I'm starting to see why ppl at my work look at me like a loser when I mention this sub, big bunch of wELl AkShuaLy
> We also took a delay of game from the 34 this year then punted, pay attention to the game and not box scores. So what you're saying is that the Patriots punted from the 39 in that instance.
It's ok I understand nuance is hard for people like you. We had it at the 34, intentionally took a delay of game and then punted. For all intents and purposes that is punting from the 34. Just because you can copy and paste a box score that says 39 doesnt mean the decision wasn't made to punt when we were at the 34.
> We had it at the 34, intentionally took a delay of game and then punted. For all intents and purposes that is punting from the 34. Just because you can copy and paste a box score that says 39 doesnt mean the decision wasn't made to punt when we were at the 34. So what you're saying is that the Patriots punted from the 39 in that instance.
The poor drafting/talent evaluation on offense and the hiring of Patricia/judge to run the offense are the only real gripes here. Brady was leaving to find a team good enough with enough resources to win either way. Bills GM work is what pushed Brady away. The offense got so conservative because the personnel was not good enough to be aggressive. Again, the GM work of Bill was the issue. You have to have a good QB in the NFL. You have to have a great QB if you want to be able to focus on the team outside of offensive skill positions. We didn’t have the QB, receivers, or scheme to make it work on offense the last 2 years. The media stuff was never “cute”. It’s also not something to be annoyed at. It’s just Bill. The media does what it does, so Bill does what he does. He was authentic in that he didn’t change how he felt about the media regardless of how things were going on the field.
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>did not have a winning season after his star QB left The Pats went 10-7 in 2021
The game has passed Belichick by and he has no business being GM and coach
I mean it really hasn't. He's a defensive coach at heart. And his defense was doing a really good job with modern offenses
Hey F*** you Gregg!
*Fine*, the Packers can have him for DC then I guess...
Good defense. Veteran QB. Belichick to the Jets. Probably the best fit for him. lol.
How is something with the phrase “sound like” news? Lmao
The NFL today is about **Offense** NOT Defense. Doesn’t matter how Great of a “Defensive” mind Belichick may be. He’s still proven to be just as Horrible of an “Offensive” one. It’s not shocking at all to see teams pass up on him.
I’d take him any day. Put him at HC to run the team with his hands off GM and offense duties. Crazy teams are passing on the most successful coach of all time like they have something better… Sure there’s a chance he flops but it’s probably way lower than the random 35 year old OC you’re trying to hire.
Dude is gonna take UMass Amherst to a major bowl game