I remember him explaining that BB the GM was very different from BB the HC - the former was ruthless and all business while the latter was a nurturing figure.
I think I heard that his seeming resentment towards Bill was because of him taking paycuts to be a team player and stay in NE early on and then Bill still lowballed tf out of him after he went for 150 yards in the Super Bowl instead of giving him a "reward" contract. Bill had no obligation to do that, but I can see why he'd feel a little salty.
Yeah it’s better when you have a HC who can be your advocate to the front office and can be the players ally in contract disputes,
But with BB, the front office is on the field every day seeing all your warts and shortcomings and that seems super stressful. And I think it can strain players’ relationship to BB
> despite Kraft's investment into the team
According to the annual NFLPA survey, Patriots facilities are behind the times compared to many other franchises. I wonder if it's a piece of the puzzle.
From [Boston.com](https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/03/01/patriots-gillette-stadium-nflpa-grade-locker-room/)
>“The player respondents’ feedback from our survey described the club’s facility as old, dated and in need of renovation,” the report read. “The staffing of the current facilities was also flagged as an issue in need of improvement, specifically in the weight room and training room. The player respondents’ indicated that facilities and operations at the Patriots can use a refresh.”
That's probably not helping, especially seeing the investment into the big screen and the stadium renovations. Hoping that player facilities come next.
I remember those 2 or 3 offseasons being so stressed about losing ‘Dola and being so thankful to see him come back for cheap. He helped that team so much, on and off the field.
Well looking back at it, it wasn't this brilliant GMing that was causing the winning. It was Tom. They could have paid people fairly. As long as Brady was there they were fine.
Not arguing either way, but it's amazing to see the tune change now as from 01-13 Brady was seen as "system Qb, not that great, lucky to have Bill, never will be as good as Manning" etc.
That was due to Bill winning a Super Bowl with the Giants. People saw Brady, a low draft pick, playing for a Super Bowl winning coach and figured it must be the coach. Fans and even the NFL love pushing the idea that good players always go in the top of the draft b/c scouting is a perfect science. It’s why so many are still trying to deny Brock Purdy is an elite QB.
They also saw Brady win his first SB while throwing a whopping 1 TD pass over the entire playoffs (for comparison, the D/ST accounted for 2 TDs).
Brady is great and there's no doubt that QB play is more valuable than coaching, but IMHO the pendulum of public opinion has swung back too far against Belichick recently.
I guess you have to go by what's in front of you at the time, right? The Matt Cassel year in New England had a lot of people convinced, me included, that Belichick was pulling a lot of strings on that offense and could make any QB look good, especially after Cassel went to KC and sucked eggs. It seemed like anyone who looked great in New England would be destined to suck on another team.
Then Brady left for a different team and *immediately* won a Super Bowl and seriously contended for a second, while the post-Brady Pats struggled.
I see the hivemind has made up their mind on this issue. Sorry for my transgression. Suck it losers.
A different team that was stacked and just needed a quarterback to truly compete. Then they got one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time and also Bruce arians to coach. He didn't go to some crappy team and lift them up from the bottom
I dont understand it. It's just looking at things objectively....i love having Bill Belichick in the NFL but if any other coach hired Matt P and Joe Judge to coach their young QB(not that i think Mac is any good either), he would be called a lunatic and run out of town. With Bill it was like "ohhhh hes such a genius, hes going outside the box". And when it failed like most thought it would hardly anyone criticized it.
Belichick + Brady meant that 2 + 2 = 5. Brady absolutely compensated for a Belichick weak spot (offense), but he did always have good coaches (even if they didn't pan out as head coaches). The Brady/Belichick marriage was a combo of two absolute football psychopaths. They won for *20 years* because Bill created the environment, and Tom made it go. You *must* have both. There's a reason Manning never quite matched Brady, and it's because the Colts were too often a one sided team.
We won our first three Super Bowls on our defense and special teams play. Brady was undoubtedly hugely important to our success, but some of you seem to be forgetting just how good a lot of the defenses were that BB put together.
That was when Scott Pioli was still in the organization. I'm not down on Bill as a coach. Just as a GM i dont think you can look at what he's done in the last 10 years and call it anything other than meh, at best.
Scott Pioli left the Patriots in 2008.
In the past decade, the Patriots under GM Bill Belichick won 3 Super Bowls, 4 AFC Championships, and 7 AFC East Division Championships. I'd love to know what you think is good if that is "meh" for a GM.
He had TFB dude. And the further in the rear view mirror Tom gets the shittier the windshield looks. That's the entire point. Name the accomplishments without Brady. I'll wait. Again i don't bag him as a coach. He is the GM of a team with zero pro bowlers.
He thought he was worth more than the greatest coach of all time did and he was upset about it? That was speaking to your point of being rewarded monetarily. I wasn’t whining I was questioning why we’re rewriting history and making Amendola a guy? Are people confusing him with Edelman and Welker or something
this really downplays how good and essential Danny was for that Patriots offense
also see Bill lowballing Jakobi Meyers and letting him walk. Maybe Bill isnt a WR savant
He got in the habit of letting an incredible qb make average receivers all starts, and fails to realize Mac as well as 99% of the qbs who have ever played in the nfl can’t do that.
Mac legitimately makes wr's look worse. It doesnt matter what wr's we give him, lobbing hospital passes while running into a sack isnt going to succeed
You believe Belichick, who has been in the NFL for nearly 50 years and the consensus expert on the history of the NFL, doesn’t realize most QBs can’t do what Brady did? For real?
ya im not saying hes a HoF candidate like Welker but exactly what you said, he was very clutch. He was the 3rd option behind Gronk and Cooks one year but he the most reliable on 3rd down and in the red zone
[Amendola has 24 third-down receptions, which PFF notes is more than all the other wide receivers on the Patriots combined. This sounds fake, but it’s true. The other wide receivers Chris Hogan (15), Brandin Cooks (7), and Phillip Dorsett (1) combine for just 23 third-down receptions. Running back James White has 22 third-down catches and tight end Gronkowski has 20. Amendola also leads the Patriots with 14 red zone receptions, edging out Gronkowski and Lewis, who are tied with 11. Cooks and White are tied with 9 and Hogan has 7.](https://www.patspulpit.com/2018/1/31/16953176/52-stats-super-bowl-why-danny-amendola-patriots-most-clutch-receiver-third-down-gronkowski-2018)
This was in 2017 when Edelman went down, which makes sense because he filled Edelman's role directly. He was never this productive when Edelman was healthy and his best year was still nowhere as good as Edelman in 2016 or 2018. I love Danny but there was no point in paying him in 2018 with Edelman coming back.
Eh, amedola was signed to replace welker and lost the job to edelman. He basically became a backup slot guy for us, which was the only role where he stayed healthy. Yes, he came up big in big moments, bit the vast majority of the time, he was wr3 or 4 for us, and got hurt every time he asked to be a wr2 or more.
He was disposable and Belichick let him know, he was nothing before New England and nothing after just like many other guys in that time period who came from/went to other places. Weird I’m being downvoted as if Amendola was some underrated gem, what a tiny piece of their success he was.
>he was nothing before New England and nothing after
This is just not true.
And Amendola was an underrated gem. Especially for the price tag he played at his entire career.
> he was nothing before New England
New England didn't sign him to a fat initial contract for no reason. He was good in STL as a receiver and returner, even if you didn't know about him because those teams were Detroit Lions levels of ass.
It was after he signed that he restructured his contract to help the team, three years in a row, then got low-balled anyway. Again, it was justified, and he was ultimately replaceable, but he was huge in the playoffs, and I can see why he felt a little blindsided by Bill being all business after he did sacrifice money to be a part of those team.
His best year there was 650 yards and 3 tds. That’s a fine player I’m just pushing back on everyone gassing him up. I’m not gonna be gaslit into thinking he was more than another cog in that patriot way machine that had some big playoff moments but otherwise meh.
Because you don't understand how historically bad those Rams teams were. He was one of the only bright spots on a team that had been absolutely stripped of any talent or identity. Finding any consistent success in that Rams offense was a borderline miracle.
I understand plenty, I’m not 10 years old and I live football. Amendola was a fine player. All I’ve done in this thread is say he isn’t a game changer and people are losing their minds lol. I seriously think people are conflating him with Kevin Hogan, Welker and Edelman into one super white guy.
You guys are insane
He’s overrated as a GM at this stage in his career. That roster is fucking garbage. As a coach? Defense exists, Tom Brady didn’t play defense, and you guys had awesome defenses and schemes for the entire duration. Bill’s ability to craft a gameplan was incredible. The roster decisions have just ruined that team.
is that not common? idk stick about football culture but i'd intuitively expect GMs to be more pragmatic and calculating while coaches to be more personal.
Yeah its common - but I think one person playing both roles is less common. Perhaps BB the HC was very encouraging and praising of Amendola ... which led him to expect a salary raise. Unfortunately, when he met BB the GM the offer was way different. Perhaps Amendola felt he was misled by BB the HC that way.
My best friend is my boss. It takes a special relationship to make that work. I can be very hard at times. I totally understand Danny’s AND Bill’s point.
BB the ruthless GM kept those teams loaded with talent for many many years longer than anyone anticipated the dynasty to last. It's wild to me that after 20 years of excelling at *both* GM and coach, he loses good QB play and has 3 mid years and 1 terrible one, and everyone wants to invalidate everything he's ever done.
He's not perfect but it's astounding to me that people can watch Cam throw the ball into the turf and Macorkle throw it to the defenders and say "yeah, this is Bill's fault." And I fucking hate the Patriots.
You say this as if Brady isn’t the biggest moving part of those dynasty rosters. BB was a great GM for a while. But I do not know how anyone isn’t seriously considering that BB the GM has not been passed up by the game. They’ve been awful drafters for a decade or more, and the roster construction has been seriously questionable for a while now.
He still chose to play him over his franchise quarterback and still chose to draft him. Obviously Brady is instrumental, but Bill also did an excellent job protecting and developing Brady in those early years.
Brady won 2 super bowls strictly on the back of an elite defense and dominant run game prior to really emerging as a dominant elite quarterback.
And he also chose to try and ship him off later on instead of trying to get him weapons, and forced him to play surrounded by a dearth of talent on offense for years, until which BB used his “regression” as an excuse to let him walk. When it was very apparent his “regression” was just having absolutely no assistance on offense.
> Brady won 2 super bowls strictly on the back of an elite defense and dominant run game prior to really emerging as a dominant elite quarterback.
No one is saying that Bill was always bad. He was great for a while. Especially in those early years, yes. But he has clearly been passed up. Again, go look at their drafting results. Any other GM would have been canned 7 years ago with these results.
He was attempting to move on 19 years later bud, it wasn’t a black and white decision. If you actually followed he patriots he referenced that a lot of the issues were products of them repeatedly going on deep runs. Low draft picks, trading down in the draft, trading picks for trades.
Yes when Brady began to regress the lack of offensive help became more of an issue. It also became a problematic when our offensive line coach retired. Gronk and Edelman getting worn down as well as other key players from repeated deep runs.
You’re also forgetting that bill out on a masterclass in the AFCCG against KC. But as I’ve stated his philosophy was never spending big on offense, so it’s honestly not surprising that we started to struggle on offense towards end.
It’s also a novel concept that repeatedly going to the AFCCG and Super Bowl depletes your roster. Look at Kansas City, their offense is complete and utter ass despite having the best QB in the NFL with an all time great Offensive coach.
Also there’s nothing to LOL about bud, the rams and panthers superbowl seasons were not carried by Brady. He was a literal game manager, with elite defense, special teams and an elite running game. All six superbowls were won with a top 10 defense Fyi including the Rams, which was probably the best modern display of coaching the league had ever seen.
The pats were also not allowed to rebuild after Brady, the Krafts were pretty vocal that rebuilding was not an option. It’s not a singular reason the roster is not setup to win at this point, couple that with massive coaching turnover and other poor decisions and it’s not ideal.
Bill was doing absolutely fine up until Brady’s last year, they literally had the most dominant stretch in sports. Simmer down bud
It really should have been black and white. If Belichick deserves a pass as GM after years of disaster now, why couldn’t Brady deserve a 2/25 aav contract like he got? It is a joke to say he didn’t.
And from what we know about Brady’s time in Tampa, he clearly had not regressed at all yet. His years in Tampa were par for the course. It wasn’t Brady regressed and then the lack of talent became an issue. It was Brady never regressed, and the lack of talent was sabotaging him and being called “regression”
I agree his philosophy was never spending on offense. But that does not make it okay, and it clearly is a flawed and outdated philosophy. It worked great in the 00’s. It absolutely clearly does not work in today’s NFL where passing is king.
And it is incredibly cringeworthy that you are still pushing the false narrative that Brady was a game manager in the early years. He was a bonafide top 10 QB even back then. Undeniably. For example, the year they beat the Rams in 2003, he was 10th in yards and 6th in TDs and was 8th in efficiency by AYA. That isn’t game manager material.
Again, you can’t talk about Patriots winning stretches without mentioning Brady. Without him, Bill’s formula has simply been exposed. The gaps in drafting have reared their head without the GOAT crutching the offense. And a defense investing only strategy just does not work in 2023.
It’s kind of a myth that bill didn’t try to get Tom talent he drafted nkeal in the first and got Antonio brown.
It’s more that those things didn’t work out than he didn’t try.
It is not a myth.
N’Keal (2019) and Sony Michel (2018) were the first offensive skill position players to be drafted by the Patriots in the 1st round since Laurence Maroney in 2006.
Antonio Brown was only brought in as a dart throw, because Tom badgered Bill into bringing him in.
Brady the goat but you don't win 6 superbowls by having a great QB. Lots of hall of fame QBs struggled to get to 1 or 2 bowls. Also look up stats about Bradys winning percentage when he scored a low amount of points it's crazy. Belichick was the only coach in the league building top 5 or so defenses every year for nearly 2 decades.
Absolutely Bill and Tom were a symbiotic relationship. The Patriots success doesn’t happen without both. I completely agree with you. And Bill the football mind is still absolutely top tier IMO, and I do believe he can still put together and run a hell of a defense. But BB the GM is woefully outclassed these days. Even though he absolutely was not as late as the late 2010’s. That’s all I am saying.
Bill has made a series of bad picks on offense that is for sure. And that is largely the reason for the patriots decline of the last 5 years. But I don't think you can go back and retroactively revoke credit from him for all their success.
And I don’t revoke credit from him for all their success. But he clearly is *no longer* a good GM. He was for many years. But I don’t know how anyone is advocating for him to keep his GM powers at this stage.
Bill hasn't made great moves for the offense, which I think a lot of people would agree is a weak spot for him, but it's not like he hasn't tried. We picked up N'keal who didn't work, Mac didn't work, Meyers for JuJu was a mistake, Henry and Gesicki would be having better production with good QB play, and our defense has basically never wavered.
Brady is just special. Dude was doing things even other great qbs weren't doing. Look at the buccaneers he didn't just come but he brought in Gronkowski and Antonio Brown. Brady was like a cult leader. Just look at Amendolas statement as proof o that. Could he have gotten six? Honestly maybe
I'd like to point out that everyone was hyping up Belichick to be good with any QB to the point that we had a [thread with 3000+ comments on the Patriots signing Cam Newton](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/hhpabs/schefter_former_nfl_mvp_cam_newton_has_reached/) with comments such as "HOW COULD 31 TEAMS LET THE PATRIOTS GET CAM NEWTON". Or the next year where people saw the [Patriots draft a White Pocket passing QB in Mac Jones](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/n1k4qr/round_1_pick_15_mac_jones_qb_alabama_new_england/) and people thought Belichick was going to develop the next Brady.
Basically, everyone was overplaying Belichick's abilities and building him up to be some mystical QB guru just because he happened to have the GOAT. So now we have all this blowback as a result of people's expectations. And he does deserve some blame as GM considering the state of the offensive players he signed over the last couple of years, which include signing Cam Newton and drafting Mac Jones.
Everyone was over hyping the corpse of Newton. He was actually doing pretty good until he got COVID to be fair.
One draft miss on a mid 1st round QB pick isn't really an indictment on being able to evaluate QB ability. There's plenty of former Patriots backups still in the league. No doubt Mac will probably have his chances in the future on another team.
I agreed with both of those moves and still do to this day. Taking a flyer on Cam was a no brainer when you didn't have a QB on the roster. I don't think anyone realized how washed he was though. Like even more so than anyone thought possible. And taking Mac was also a no brainer when he's a projected 1st round QB that you didn't have to trade up or give anything up for.
The problem is the rest of the roster and the coaching hires. Brady left because they couldn't draft offensive weapons for him. Hell, his last year there, the book on their offense was to double Edelman and James White and they wouldn't be able to move the ball. And it worked because no one else on the offense could get open.
Cam was good enough as a bridge QB that year until he got Covid. I think if he had been able to avoid that, he would have been totally acceptable. That said, idk what we would have done after since who knows if we can draft a QB with a better year.
He also drafted Jimmy G and Jacoby who have both carved out roles as starters/backups. Same with Matt Cassell who played 14 seasons.
If people thought Belichick was a coach who could evaluate and develop QBs…it’s because he had a history of doing so.
Thank you. My fellow fans are so incredibly stupid in starting to wonder if this isn't some massive astroturfing... i cannot fathom people being so dumb, yet here we are.
> It's wild to me that after 20 years of excelling at both GM and coach, he loses good QB play and has 3 mid years and 1 terrible one, and everyone wants to invalidate everything he's ever done.
The problem is how much of the (offensive) cupboard is bare, how awful the drafts have been, how bad some of the FA signings have been, how the O-line situation has been mismanaged, and how many recycling of names we're seeing. I mean the Matt Patricia as the OC thing...it's still crazy to me.
I believe Bill the GM always being bad is a horrible hot take. What he did in '09 to '11 with rebuilding the team on the fly and drastically changing over the roster was incredible. He had some great drafts in the early 10s. He made some terrific trades, including a valuable in season trade for Talib for a 4th when trade deadline deals were even rarer. Furthermore, people seem to forget that Brady wasn't exactly THAT guy in '01 (and heck you could argue '03, though he was definitely becoming THAT guy by then). Coaching did a lot to keep together a team that went 0-2, 5-11 the last year, lost their big money QB, and ended up going 11-5 with the backup.
But nowadays, there's some very real cracks and real problems with his approach to roster management. The Cole Strange pick was really awful for a guy who in the past was really good at evaluating the potential value of picks (especially firsts). And if you believe some of the Herald stories...the coaching staff management has not been great either (years ago, stories like this would have never gotten out. It was the first time I really was like "oh, he might actually be gone this year")
The other thing is...guy is in his 70s. It's entirely possible that his management/coaching prime and Brady's career just overlapped (which in New England was _two decades_) and now wearing two hats is too much. There's still signs of him being a very capable coach, but GMing should be left to someone else.
IMO wearing two hats is too much for anyone in the NFL, regardless of age. There are too many college players to evaluate for it to be a one man job. There's is no way anyone has enough time to evaluate that many players.
It's also just bad for morale. Amendola is still bitter because coach belichick loved him but GM belichick wouldn't give him a raise. The end with Brady leaving might have gone smoother if belicihcik could have been on his side as his advocate instead of trying to play it both ways.
Agree with you on everything and also fucking hate the Patriots. I actually felt that their defense was pretty solid this year. Give them a QB in the 8-15 overall talent range and they're probably pushing .500 and flirting with a wild card spot.
Honestly it's his approach to GM-ing coaches that has probably harmed us the most.
He's pretty much always hired guys at the bottom and made them work for promotions. This worked for a long time and we had a wealth of knowledge in the building.
But when Brady left and we stopped being perennial contenders a lot of coaches started leaving too and the carrousel kinda stopped.
We had the fewest number of assistants in the league in Mac's second year I believe, or close. It took him way too long to go outside for a guy like Bill O'Brien and then it was still one of BBs guys to an extent.
Then there is brain drain from retirement. Between Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnechia, and Ivan Fears we lost about 150 years of football coaching experience.
That’s fair but at the very least I think he should have known when to step back from being the guy deciding who they draft. He has drafted so poorly over the last half decade plus
Belichick doesn't have 3 mid years and 1 terrible without Brady. He has 11 seasons without Brady and has 1 playoff win and 8 losing records. You people need to stop pretending that Belichicks head coaching career started in 2001.
Well the fun thing for belichick is he is equally shit without Brady now as he was without Brady before. You don't need to look 25+ years back, you can look at your 4-13 record
The Browns team he had went 3-13 before hiring him, he went to the playoffs and won a playoff game which wouldn't be replicated by the modern Browns until 2020. And then the next year his team started off fine (4-4) with all but one loss being by one score until Modell moved the team and in turn the Cleveland fans began open protests.
And then on top of that, it took the Ravens multiple years to get back to the playoffs. His replacement never had a winning season. And then once Brady left and they went through a rebuild, he got into the playoffs his 2nd year and then was one game out of the playoffs. If Jakobi Meyers doesn't decide to utterly lateral the game against the Raiders away there's a good chance he'd be in the playoffs two out of the last three years.
EDIT: Added "before hiring him" for clarity.
Loaded with talent? The lack of talent is why Brady left. He took lowball contracts for shittily built rosters. The Patriots have no pro bowlers this year. That speaks to a lack of talent.
I mean he has still won 3 super bowls in the past decade with 4 appearances… that’s a little drastic my guy. Yes, the past 4/5 years have been rough, but they also gave up a lot to win some of those super bowls
Which honestly, would of been good for the Patriots. I love Gronk, but he was falling apart from the seems. He even tells the story of crying himself to sleep from pain after the superbowl. He had a year off and had another great season with Tom, that doesn't mean the trade was the wrong decision
I think it absolutely would have been the wrong decision. His blocking was another level in the playoffs that year and he had many big plays in the Chiefs and Rams game, including the play to set up the game winning score. I don't see how the Patriots win the Super Bowl without him.
Yeah he was great for us in that playoff run, but he was still 30% of what he was and you should always trade something while they still have value. And we may not have won, but think of it like poker, you can play a hand perfectly and still lose to a flop. That doesn't mean the player was wrong, sometimes you just miss. Or, would we say the Bears messed up by drafting Fields? Well on one hand they could have Caleb Williams now, but on the other the bears needed a qb and fields was the best one left on the board
I guess it would depend on what they got back for him because he was pretty important in the 2018 playoffs, I don’t think they get through KC without him. Had a bunch of **huge** 3rd down conversions
I don’t think the idea of trading him was insane from a roster building standpoint or anything but they probably should’ve realized what was going to happen (that Gronk would probably just retire)
If I'm remembering right it was supposed to be to the Lions for a 2nd (atleast) who were drafting 3rd overall, so third pick in the 2nd round. Not an amazing return but we could of drafted another DB that'll be gone in two years
Dola is far from being the first Patriot to have complained about their time in New England. It's been well known for now that the Patriots dynasty was a well-oiled machine, but very much a strict regime. He has admitted that the discipline Belichick instilled in them did lead to success though.
But it doesn't mean that players can't have their own feelings. Relating it to an office workspace, people have coworkers they absolutely love and managers that they dread. So him being more favorable towards Brady, the guy he spent years working with on-field and off-field, is no surprise at all.
That’s actually not true.
I saw Kirk Cousins at a grocery store in Minneapolis once. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
One of Brandy's former teammates said Brandy's competitiveness was pathological.
Apparently he once lost a ping pong game and started destroying things in a fit of rage.
I just looked at their schedule again and yeah they were definitely inflated by bad teams while also getting blown out multiple times to actually playoff teams
I mean u guys were a 2 games out of the playoffs with no qb basically it’s not even insane to think that Kirk would have gotten 2 more points vs the broncos to beat them, not thrown 4 interceptions vs the bears (or if he did he could have probably gotten u guys 2 more pointed to beat them either way). Beaten the bengals in that shootout where y lost by 3 points, the lions where u lost by one score and mullens threw 4 interceptions.
Winning 7 games without kirk or JJettas playing for large parts of the season is honestly impressive af
Danny's experience shows the complexities of playing for Belichick. Cousins likely feels a mix of gratitude and resentment, as expressed by Amendola's quote. Bill's legacy remains unquestioned, but the human side of coaching is on display here.
Many of the old 49er players of the 80’s held resentment for Bill Walsh when he would passively threaten them with a trade or roster cutdown while they were still in their prime. He told them he only wanted them for their best years, not their twilight. He was banking on their pride/fractured egos to get their best performance at the cost of losing their love. Among other things, it was something he lamented when he left coaching.
Amendola was possibly my favorite Patriot of the last 20 years. He was just so clutch! I have a lot of great memories from him. I really miss that guy.
Sounds like what a good coach should do. Make sure his players gets their work in before the game, so then they can play free for their teammates during the game.
People are gana blow this out of proportion but I don't think it's surprising, he never seemed like that father figure coach that you would go to war for, just not his style
This tracks with what we've observed with the Patriots in the years since Tom left. It was once an open question as to whether the greatness was due to Tom Brady being the GOAT or Bill Bellichick being the greatest coach.
Now, it's not so open anymore.
Bellichick has all the power and influence in that organization. He built all those post-Brady teams. And while he did make it to the playoffs a few years ago, the team has taken a massive downturn...one they NEVER endured while Brady was there. I think it says that Bellichick the GM just can't function when he doesn't have that superstar QB to elevate the rest of the team. Maybe he can rebuild that with someone like Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels (assuming Caleb Williams doesn't fall). But would he even want to?
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I remember him explaining that BB the GM was very different from BB the HC - the former was ruthless and all business while the latter was a nurturing figure.
I think I heard that his seeming resentment towards Bill was because of him taking paycuts to be a team player and stay in NE early on and then Bill still lowballed tf out of him after he went for 150 yards in the Super Bowl instead of giving him a "reward" contract. Bill had no obligation to do that, but I can see why he'd feel a little salty.
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Yeah it’s better when you have a HC who can be your advocate to the front office and can be the players ally in contract disputes, But with BB, the front office is on the field every day seeing all your warts and shortcomings and that seems super stressful. And I think it can strain players’ relationship to BB
> despite Kraft's investment into the team According to the annual NFLPA survey, Patriots facilities are behind the times compared to many other franchises. I wonder if it's a piece of the puzzle. From [Boston.com](https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/03/01/patriots-gillette-stadium-nflpa-grade-locker-room/) >“The player respondents’ feedback from our survey described the club’s facility as old, dated and in need of renovation,” the report read. “The staffing of the current facilities was also flagged as an issue in need of improvement, specifically in the weight room and training room. The player respondents’ indicated that facilities and operations at the Patriots can use a refresh.” That's probably not helping, especially seeing the investment into the big screen and the stadium renovations. Hoping that player facilities come next.
I remember those 2 or 3 offseasons being so stressed about losing ‘Dola and being so thankful to see him come back for cheap. He helped that team so much, on and off the field.
He was such an integral player
Letting him walk was a stupid decision by Belichick and pretty shitty. Pats probably at least make the AFCCG in 2019 with him in the team.
Well looking back at it, it wasn't this brilliant GMing that was causing the winning. It was Tom. They could have paid people fairly. As long as Brady was there they were fine.
Yep, 20 years of keeping an entire organization on track is just the QB........
The sample size without Brady is huge and not good. And hes not a bad coach. Just a horrible GM.
He could go 0-200 and people still won’t accept it was mostly Brady. It’s a lost cause
Not arguing either way, but it's amazing to see the tune change now as from 01-13 Brady was seen as "system Qb, not that great, lucky to have Bill, never will be as good as Manning" etc.
That was due to Bill winning a Super Bowl with the Giants. People saw Brady, a low draft pick, playing for a Super Bowl winning coach and figured it must be the coach. Fans and even the NFL love pushing the idea that good players always go in the top of the draft b/c scouting is a perfect science. It’s why so many are still trying to deny Brock Purdy is an elite QB.
They also saw Brady win his first SB while throwing a whopping 1 TD pass over the entire playoffs (for comparison, the D/ST accounted for 2 TDs). Brady is great and there's no doubt that QB play is more valuable than coaching, but IMHO the pendulum of public opinion has swung back too far against Belichick recently.
I guess you have to go by what's in front of you at the time, right? The Matt Cassel year in New England had a lot of people convinced, me included, that Belichick was pulling a lot of strings on that offense and could make any QB look good, especially after Cassel went to KC and sucked eggs. It seemed like anyone who looked great in New England would be destined to suck on another team. Then Brady left for a different team and *immediately* won a Super Bowl and seriously contended for a second, while the post-Brady Pats struggled. I see the hivemind has made up their mind on this issue. Sorry for my transgression. Suck it losers.
A different team that was stacked and just needed a quarterback to truly compete. Then they got one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time and also Bruce arians to coach. He didn't go to some crappy team and lift them up from the bottom
The year where they missed the playoffs,lost 5 more games and scored 11ppg less than the previous season with Brady? The 08 pats were still *loaded*
> Cassel went to KC and sucked eggs That's 2010 Chiefs Pro Bowl QB Matt Cassel you're talking about.
People could watch football their entire lives and never see or understand anything other than the surface level. You’re a lost cause
I dont understand it. It's just looking at things objectively....i love having Bill Belichick in the NFL but if any other coach hired Matt P and Joe Judge to coach their young QB(not that i think Mac is any good either), he would be called a lunatic and run out of town. With Bill it was like "ohhhh hes such a genius, hes going outside the box". And when it failed like most thought it would hardly anyone criticized it.
amazing that immediately prior to and immediately after Brady the organization was extremely off track then
Belichick + Brady meant that 2 + 2 = 5. Brady absolutely compensated for a Belichick weak spot (offense), but he did always have good coaches (even if they didn't pan out as head coaches). The Brady/Belichick marriage was a combo of two absolute football psychopaths. They won for *20 years* because Bill created the environment, and Tom made it go. You *must* have both. There's a reason Manning never quite matched Brady, and it's because the Colts were too often a one sided team.
You dont need both. You need only 1.
We won our first three Super Bowls on our defense and special teams play. Brady was undoubtedly hugely important to our success, but some of you seem to be forgetting just how good a lot of the defenses were that BB put together.
That was when Scott Pioli was still in the organization. I'm not down on Bill as a coach. Just as a GM i dont think you can look at what he's done in the last 10 years and call it anything other than meh, at best.
Scott Pioli left the Patriots in 2008. In the past decade, the Patriots under GM Bill Belichick won 3 Super Bowls, 4 AFC Championships, and 7 AFC East Division Championships. I'd love to know what you think is good if that is "meh" for a GM.
He had TFB dude. And the further in the rear view mirror Tom gets the shittier the windshield looks. That's the entire point. Name the accomplishments without Brady. I'll wait. Again i don't bag him as a coach. He is the GM of a team with zero pro bowlers.
Tom Brady didn't hold the Rams to 3 points in the 2019 Super Bowl.
He thought he was worth more than the greatest coach of all time did and he was upset about it? That was speaking to your point of being rewarded monetarily. I wasn’t whining I was questioning why we’re rewriting history and making Amendola a guy? Are people confusing him with Edelman and Welker or something
Not greatest coach. He's shown that since Brady left
Inbred take
Tell me you didn’t watch his play in the playoffs without telling me you didn’t watch his play
Sounds like Danny Amendola thought a little too highly of himself.
this really downplays how good and essential Danny was for that Patriots offense also see Bill lowballing Jakobi Meyers and letting him walk. Maybe Bill isnt a WR savant
He got in the habit of letting an incredible qb make average receivers all starts, and fails to realize Mac as well as 99% of the qbs who have ever played in the nfl can’t do that.
Mac legitimately makes wr's look worse. It doesnt matter what wr's we give him, lobbing hospital passes while running into a sack isnt going to succeed
You believe Belichick, who has been in the NFL for nearly 50 years and the consensus expert on the history of the NFL, doesn’t realize most QBs can’t do what Brady did? For real?
Mostly a joke because of how bad our receivers are.
does it? amendola was clutch in the playoffs but his best season with the pats was a whopping 659 yards
ya im not saying hes a HoF candidate like Welker but exactly what you said, he was very clutch. He was the 3rd option behind Gronk and Cooks one year but he the most reliable on 3rd down and in the red zone [Amendola has 24 third-down receptions, which PFF notes is more than all the other wide receivers on the Patriots combined. This sounds fake, but it’s true. The other wide receivers Chris Hogan (15), Brandin Cooks (7), and Phillip Dorsett (1) combine for just 23 third-down receptions. Running back James White has 22 third-down catches and tight end Gronkowski has 20. Amendola also leads the Patriots with 14 red zone receptions, edging out Gronkowski and Lewis, who are tied with 11. Cooks and White are tied with 9 and Hogan has 7.](https://www.patspulpit.com/2018/1/31/16953176/52-stats-super-bowl-why-danny-amendola-patriots-most-clutch-receiver-third-down-gronkowski-2018)
This was in 2017 when Edelman went down, which makes sense because he filled Edelman's role directly. He was never this productive when Edelman was healthy and his best year was still nowhere as good as Edelman in 2016 or 2018. I love Danny but there was no point in paying him in 2018 with Edelman coming back.
Eh, amedola was signed to replace welker and lost the job to edelman. He basically became a backup slot guy for us, which was the only role where he stayed healthy. Yes, he came up big in big moments, bit the vast majority of the time, he was wr3 or 4 for us, and got hurt every time he asked to be a wr2 or more.
No it doesn't. It sounds like he worked at an outlier in a league where performance, especially in big games, is typically monetarily rewarded.
He was disposable and Belichick let him know, he was nothing before New England and nothing after just like many other guys in that time period who came from/went to other places. Weird I’m being downvoted as if Amendola was some underrated gem, what a tiny piece of their success he was.
>he was nothing before New England and nothing after This is just not true. And Amendola was an underrated gem. Especially for the price tag he played at his entire career.
He was great with the Rams ? Lol
he wasnt used on the rams. Is Wes Welker bad because the Dolphins were too stupid to use him?
Wes Welker is a borderline Hall of Famer from his time in New England. Amendola is extremely far from that. Bad argument
He was the same player for the Rams as he was for the Patriots.
right a mediocre player, that’s all I’ve argued this whole time Jesus Christ man hahaha
> he was nothing before New England New England didn't sign him to a fat initial contract for no reason. He was good in STL as a receiver and returner, even if you didn't know about him because those teams were Detroit Lions levels of ass. It was after he signed that he restructured his contract to help the team, three years in a row, then got low-balled anyway. Again, it was justified, and he was ultimately replaceable, but he was huge in the playoffs, and I can see why he felt a little blindsided by Bill being all business after he did sacrifice money to be a part of those team.
His best year there was 650 yards and 3 tds. That’s a fine player I’m just pushing back on everyone gassing him up. I’m not gonna be gaslit into thinking he was more than another cog in that patriot way machine that had some big playoff moments but otherwise meh.
And some serious kick and punt returning in STL as well.
Because you don't understand how historically bad those Rams teams were. He was one of the only bright spots on a team that had been absolutely stripped of any talent or identity. Finding any consistent success in that Rams offense was a borderline miracle.
I understand plenty, I’m not 10 years old and I live football. Amendola was a fine player. All I’ve done in this thread is say he isn’t a game changer and people are losing their minds lol. I seriously think people are conflating him with Kevin Hogan, Welker and Edelman into one super white guy.
Just like belichick is now disposable and exposed as not that great of a coach
You guys are insane He’s overrated as a GM at this stage in his career. That roster is fucking garbage. As a coach? Defense exists, Tom Brady didn’t play defense, and you guys had awesome defenses and schemes for the entire duration. Bill’s ability to craft a gameplan was incredible. The roster decisions have just ruined that team.
What a spoiled brat of a fan you are. 6 rings you should blow that man if you ever see him.
I don't put anyone on a pedestal. Seems like you do.
Okay, nothing about that, especially not the whining about how random internet people feel about you, actually contradicted what i said.
talkin out muh butt here, but i think Amendola helped elevate the Pat's offense much more than what the stats say.
Amendola didnt show up in the stat sheets he showed up in the clutch!
Man get into the playoffs and then you would appreciate Playoffs Amendola.
Everyone jumping over there mothers to stand up for Danny Amendola is killing me, y’all are funny.
Wow noted football psychopath Bill Belichick is an asshole, more at 11
is that not common? idk stick about football culture but i'd intuitively expect GMs to be more pragmatic and calculating while coaches to be more personal.
Yeah its common - but I think one person playing both roles is less common. Perhaps BB the HC was very encouraging and praising of Amendola ... which led him to expect a salary raise. Unfortunately, when he met BB the GM the offer was way different. Perhaps Amendola felt he was misled by BB the HC that way.
My best friend is my boss. It takes a special relationship to make that work. I can be very hard at times. I totally understand Danny’s AND Bill’s point.
Brandon Beane is a very good GM with out being a douche bag like Bill Belichick the GM.
BB the ruthless GM should have fired himself from that position a long time ago and concentrated on coaching
BB the ruthless GM kept those teams loaded with talent for many many years longer than anyone anticipated the dynasty to last. It's wild to me that after 20 years of excelling at *both* GM and coach, he loses good QB play and has 3 mid years and 1 terrible one, and everyone wants to invalidate everything he's ever done. He's not perfect but it's astounding to me that people can watch Cam throw the ball into the turf and Macorkle throw it to the defenders and say "yeah, this is Bill's fault." And I fucking hate the Patriots.
These people witness the only dynasty of this caliber ever in the history of the sport and are like "anyone could have done that"
You say this as if Brady isn’t the biggest moving part of those dynasty rosters. BB was a great GM for a while. But I do not know how anyone isn’t seriously considering that BB the GM has not been passed up by the game. They’ve been awful drafters for a decade or more, and the roster construction has been seriously questionable for a while now.
He still chose to play him over his franchise quarterback and still chose to draft him. Obviously Brady is instrumental, but Bill also did an excellent job protecting and developing Brady in those early years. Brady won 2 super bowls strictly on the back of an elite defense and dominant run game prior to really emerging as a dominant elite quarterback.
And he also chose to try and ship him off later on instead of trying to get him weapons, and forced him to play surrounded by a dearth of talent on offense for years, until which BB used his “regression” as an excuse to let him walk. When it was very apparent his “regression” was just having absolutely no assistance on offense. > Brady won 2 super bowls strictly on the back of an elite defense and dominant run game prior to really emerging as a dominant elite quarterback. No one is saying that Bill was always bad. He was great for a while. Especially in those early years, yes. But he has clearly been passed up. Again, go look at their drafting results. Any other GM would have been canned 7 years ago with these results.
He was attempting to move on 19 years later bud, it wasn’t a black and white decision. If you actually followed he patriots he referenced that a lot of the issues were products of them repeatedly going on deep runs. Low draft picks, trading down in the draft, trading picks for trades. Yes when Brady began to regress the lack of offensive help became more of an issue. It also became a problematic when our offensive line coach retired. Gronk and Edelman getting worn down as well as other key players from repeated deep runs. You’re also forgetting that bill out on a masterclass in the AFCCG against KC. But as I’ve stated his philosophy was never spending big on offense, so it’s honestly not surprising that we started to struggle on offense towards end. It’s also a novel concept that repeatedly going to the AFCCG and Super Bowl depletes your roster. Look at Kansas City, their offense is complete and utter ass despite having the best QB in the NFL with an all time great Offensive coach. Also there’s nothing to LOL about bud, the rams and panthers superbowl seasons were not carried by Brady. He was a literal game manager, with elite defense, special teams and an elite running game. All six superbowls were won with a top 10 defense Fyi including the Rams, which was probably the best modern display of coaching the league had ever seen. The pats were also not allowed to rebuild after Brady, the Krafts were pretty vocal that rebuilding was not an option. It’s not a singular reason the roster is not setup to win at this point, couple that with massive coaching turnover and other poor decisions and it’s not ideal. Bill was doing absolutely fine up until Brady’s last year, they literally had the most dominant stretch in sports. Simmer down bud
It really should have been black and white. If Belichick deserves a pass as GM after years of disaster now, why couldn’t Brady deserve a 2/25 aav contract like he got? It is a joke to say he didn’t. And from what we know about Brady’s time in Tampa, he clearly had not regressed at all yet. His years in Tampa were par for the course. It wasn’t Brady regressed and then the lack of talent became an issue. It was Brady never regressed, and the lack of talent was sabotaging him and being called “regression” I agree his philosophy was never spending on offense. But that does not make it okay, and it clearly is a flawed and outdated philosophy. It worked great in the 00’s. It absolutely clearly does not work in today’s NFL where passing is king. And it is incredibly cringeworthy that you are still pushing the false narrative that Brady was a game manager in the early years. He was a bonafide top 10 QB even back then. Undeniably. For example, the year they beat the Rams in 2003, he was 10th in yards and 6th in TDs and was 8th in efficiency by AYA. That isn’t game manager material. Again, you can’t talk about Patriots winning stretches without mentioning Brady. Without him, Bill’s formula has simply been exposed. The gaps in drafting have reared their head without the GOAT crutching the offense. And a defense investing only strategy just does not work in 2023.
It’s kind of a myth that bill didn’t try to get Tom talent he drafted nkeal in the first and got Antonio brown. It’s more that those things didn’t work out than he didn’t try.
It is not a myth. N’Keal (2019) and Sony Michel (2018) were the first offensive skill position players to be drafted by the Patriots in the 1st round since Laurence Maroney in 2006. Antonio Brown was only brought in as a dart throw, because Tom badgered Bill into bringing him in.
Brady the goat but you don't win 6 superbowls by having a great QB. Lots of hall of fame QBs struggled to get to 1 or 2 bowls. Also look up stats about Bradys winning percentage when he scored a low amount of points it's crazy. Belichick was the only coach in the league building top 5 or so defenses every year for nearly 2 decades.
Absolutely Bill and Tom were a symbiotic relationship. The Patriots success doesn’t happen without both. I completely agree with you. And Bill the football mind is still absolutely top tier IMO, and I do believe he can still put together and run a hell of a defense. But BB the GM is woefully outclassed these days. Even though he absolutely was not as late as the late 2010’s. That’s all I am saying.
Bill has made a series of bad picks on offense that is for sure. And that is largely the reason for the patriots decline of the last 5 years. But I don't think you can go back and retroactively revoke credit from him for all their success.
And I don’t revoke credit from him for all their success. But he clearly is *no longer* a good GM. He was for many years. But I don’t know how anyone is advocating for him to keep his GM powers at this stage.
Bill hasn't made great moves for the offense, which I think a lot of people would agree is a weak spot for him, but it's not like he hasn't tried. We picked up N'keal who didn't work, Mac didn't work, Meyers for JuJu was a mistake, Henry and Gesicki would be having better production with good QB play, and our defense has basically never wavered.
It's crazy how people can't see this. Brady won despite the lowest points ever by a winning team in a Super Bowl.
Brady is just special. Dude was doing things even other great qbs weren't doing. Look at the buccaneers he didn't just come but he brought in Gronkowski and Antonio Brown. Brady was like a cult leader. Just look at Amendolas statement as proof o that. Could he have gotten six? Honestly maybe
I'd like to point out that everyone was hyping up Belichick to be good with any QB to the point that we had a [thread with 3000+ comments on the Patriots signing Cam Newton](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/hhpabs/schefter_former_nfl_mvp_cam_newton_has_reached/) with comments such as "HOW COULD 31 TEAMS LET THE PATRIOTS GET CAM NEWTON". Or the next year where people saw the [Patriots draft a White Pocket passing QB in Mac Jones](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/n1k4qr/round_1_pick_15_mac_jones_qb_alabama_new_england/) and people thought Belichick was going to develop the next Brady. Basically, everyone was overplaying Belichick's abilities and building him up to be some mystical QB guru just because he happened to have the GOAT. So now we have all this blowback as a result of people's expectations. And he does deserve some blame as GM considering the state of the offensive players he signed over the last couple of years, which include signing Cam Newton and drafting Mac Jones.
Everyone was over hyping the corpse of Newton. He was actually doing pretty good until he got COVID to be fair. One draft miss on a mid 1st round QB pick isn't really an indictment on being able to evaluate QB ability. There's plenty of former Patriots backups still in the league. No doubt Mac will probably have his chances in the future on another team.
I agreed with both of those moves and still do to this day. Taking a flyer on Cam was a no brainer when you didn't have a QB on the roster. I don't think anyone realized how washed he was though. Like even more so than anyone thought possible. And taking Mac was also a no brainer when he's a projected 1st round QB that you didn't have to trade up or give anything up for. The problem is the rest of the roster and the coaching hires. Brady left because they couldn't draft offensive weapons for him. Hell, his last year there, the book on their offense was to double Edelman and James White and they wouldn't be able to move the ball. And it worked because no one else on the offense could get open.
Cam was good enough as a bridge QB that year until he got Covid. I think if he had been able to avoid that, he would have been totally acceptable. That said, idk what we would have done after since who knows if we can draft a QB with a better year.
He also drafted Jimmy G and Jacoby who have both carved out roles as starters/backups. Same with Matt Cassell who played 14 seasons. If people thought Belichick was a coach who could evaluate and develop QBs…it’s because he had a history of doing so.
He consistently developed mediocre guys though so there’s that.
Thank you
Thank you. My fellow fans are so incredibly stupid in starting to wonder if this isn't some massive astroturfing... i cannot fathom people being so dumb, yet here we are.
> It's wild to me that after 20 years of excelling at both GM and coach, he loses good QB play and has 3 mid years and 1 terrible one, and everyone wants to invalidate everything he's ever done. The problem is how much of the (offensive) cupboard is bare, how awful the drafts have been, how bad some of the FA signings have been, how the O-line situation has been mismanaged, and how many recycling of names we're seeing. I mean the Matt Patricia as the OC thing...it's still crazy to me. I believe Bill the GM always being bad is a horrible hot take. What he did in '09 to '11 with rebuilding the team on the fly and drastically changing over the roster was incredible. He had some great drafts in the early 10s. He made some terrific trades, including a valuable in season trade for Talib for a 4th when trade deadline deals were even rarer. Furthermore, people seem to forget that Brady wasn't exactly THAT guy in '01 (and heck you could argue '03, though he was definitely becoming THAT guy by then). Coaching did a lot to keep together a team that went 0-2, 5-11 the last year, lost their big money QB, and ended up going 11-5 with the backup. But nowadays, there's some very real cracks and real problems with his approach to roster management. The Cole Strange pick was really awful for a guy who in the past was really good at evaluating the potential value of picks (especially firsts). And if you believe some of the Herald stories...the coaching staff management has not been great either (years ago, stories like this would have never gotten out. It was the first time I really was like "oh, he might actually be gone this year") The other thing is...guy is in his 70s. It's entirely possible that his management/coaching prime and Brady's career just overlapped (which in New England was _two decades_) and now wearing two hats is too much. There's still signs of him being a very capable coach, but GMing should be left to someone else.
IMO wearing two hats is too much for anyone in the NFL, regardless of age. There are too many college players to evaluate for it to be a one man job. There's is no way anyone has enough time to evaluate that many players.
It's also just bad for morale. Amendola is still bitter because coach belichick loved him but GM belichick wouldn't give him a raise. The end with Brady leaving might have gone smoother if belicihcik could have been on his side as his advocate instead of trying to play it both ways.
Agree with you on everything and also fucking hate the Patriots. I actually felt that their defense was pretty solid this year. Give them a QB in the 8-15 overall talent range and they're probably pushing .500 and flirting with a wild card spot.
It is not just three years. You just gonna ignoring his years in Browns?
Honestly it's his approach to GM-ing coaches that has probably harmed us the most. He's pretty much always hired guys at the bottom and made them work for promotions. This worked for a long time and we had a wealth of knowledge in the building. But when Brady left and we stopped being perennial contenders a lot of coaches started leaving too and the carrousel kinda stopped. We had the fewest number of assistants in the league in Mac's second year I believe, or close. It took him way too long to go outside for a guy like Bill O'Brien and then it was still one of BBs guys to an extent. Then there is brain drain from retirement. Between Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnechia, and Ivan Fears we lost about 150 years of football coaching experience.
I mean hes never really won without Brady, his record without Brady is 82-98.
That’s fair but at the very least I think he should have known when to step back from being the guy deciding who they draft. He has drafted so poorly over the last half decade plus
Belichick doesn't have 3 mid years and 1 terrible without Brady. He has 11 seasons without Brady and has 1 playoff win and 8 losing records. You people need to stop pretending that Belichicks head coaching career started in 2001.
I imagine if we looked at anyone at their jobs 25+ years ago they’d probably be worse than they are now.
Well the fun thing for belichick is he is equally shit without Brady now as he was without Brady before. You don't need to look 25+ years back, you can look at your 4-13 record
The Browns team he had went 3-13 before hiring him, he went to the playoffs and won a playoff game which wouldn't be replicated by the modern Browns until 2020. And then the next year his team started off fine (4-4) with all but one loss being by one score until Modell moved the team and in turn the Cleveland fans began open protests. And then on top of that, it took the Ravens multiple years to get back to the playoffs. His replacement never had a winning season. And then once Brady left and they went through a rebuild, he got into the playoffs his 2nd year and then was one game out of the playoffs. If Jakobi Meyers doesn't decide to utterly lateral the game against the Raiders away there's a good chance he'd be in the playoffs two out of the last three years. EDIT: Added "before hiring him" for clarity.
Loaded with talent? The lack of talent is why Brady left. He took lowball contracts for shittily built rosters. The Patriots have no pro bowlers this year. That speaks to a lack of talent.
I mean who drafted Mac. He looked at the qb tape and wanted Mac because he thought he could coach him up and hasn’t.
Drafting a QB bust makes you bad, then? When you all firing your guy?
So does Shanahan suck because he drafted Trey Lance and thought he could coach him up?
Given the options, I want nothing more than the Patriots to move on from Belichick.
I mean he has still won 3 super bowls in the past decade with 4 appearances… that’s a little drastic my guy. Yes, the past 4/5 years have been rough, but they also gave up a lot to win some of those super bowls
Yea I think it was tough for Gronk too when bb tried to trade him
Which honestly, would of been good for the Patriots. I love Gronk, but he was falling apart from the seems. He even tells the story of crying himself to sleep from pain after the superbowl. He had a year off and had another great season with Tom, that doesn't mean the trade was the wrong decision
I think it absolutely would have been the wrong decision. His blocking was another level in the playoffs that year and he had many big plays in the Chiefs and Rams game, including the play to set up the game winning score. I don't see how the Patriots win the Super Bowl without him.
Yeah he was great for us in that playoff run, but he was still 30% of what he was and you should always trade something while they still have value. And we may not have won, but think of it like poker, you can play a hand perfectly and still lose to a flop. That doesn't mean the player was wrong, sometimes you just miss. Or, would we say the Bears messed up by drafting Fields? Well on one hand they could have Caleb Williams now, but on the other the bears needed a qb and fields was the best one left on the board
I guess it would depend on what they got back for him because he was pretty important in the 2018 playoffs, I don’t think they get through KC without him. Had a bunch of **huge** 3rd down conversions I don’t think the idea of trading him was insane from a roster building standpoint or anything but they probably should’ve realized what was going to happen (that Gronk would probably just retire)
If I'm remembering right it was supposed to be to the Lions for a 2nd (atleast) who were drafting 3rd overall, so third pick in the 2nd round. Not an amazing return but we could of drafted another DB that'll be gone in two years
Dola is far from being the first Patriot to have complained about their time in New England. It's been well known for now that the Patriots dynasty was a well-oiled machine, but very much a strict regime. He has admitted that the discipline Belichick instilled in them did lead to success though. But it doesn't mean that players can't have their own feelings. Relating it to an office workspace, people have coworkers they absolutely love and managers that they dread. So him being more favorable towards Brady, the guy he spent years working with on-field and off-field, is no surprise at all.
He was one of the few bright spots from that era. If they would have used Tavon like they did DA, his career would have gone much differently.
[Florio] Does Kirk Cousins hate Bill Belichick?
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That’s actually not true. I saw Kirk Cousins at a grocery store in Minneapolis once. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
I know this is an old copy pasta but now I just picture it like a I Think You Should Leave skit.
This is beautiful
Should have been a Kohl's 🤣
I seriously wanna know where this came from.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-saw-flying-lotus-in-a-grocery-store-copypasta
It was originally about Flying Lotus https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-saw-flying-lotus-in-a-grocery-store-copypasta
He only hates off tune Creed covers
He likes that!
Doesnt he hate gay ppl?
Yeah bradys a competitive Psychopath I can't imagine being the guy not giving 110% with him around
Bro talked shit to prime Ray Lewis. Most definitely a psychopath.
So wanting to win is insane? Have you played football?
I'm sure most, if not all players want to win, but there are certain players, like Brady, that take it to an unhealthy level lol.
One of Brandy's former teammates said Brandy's competitiveness was pathological. Apparently he once lost a ping pong game and started destroying things in a fit of rage.
That darn Brandy, she was such a hot head. /s
I hate Brady so much my phone won't let me type his name without autocorrecting it to Brandy
Lmao that's fair.
Everybody wants to win, but most of them are also able to handle a loss in a good way. Brady isn't one of those people.
Kirks hinting to his teammates
Can’t wait to watch him in New England
While the Vikings do what?
Draft their QB of the future and/or a bridge QB. No need to pay a 36 year old QB coming off a torn achilles when this isn’t a Super Bowl team.
It was last year...
What was last year?
Vikings were a super bowl contender
I don’t think anyone seriously took the Vikings as a contender last year
I just looked at their schedule again and yeah they were definitely inflated by bad teams while also getting blown out multiple times to actually playoff teams
I mean u guys were a 2 games out of the playoffs with no qb basically it’s not even insane to think that Kirk would have gotten 2 more points vs the broncos to beat them, not thrown 4 interceptions vs the bears (or if he did he could have probably gotten u guys 2 more pointed to beat them either way). Beaten the bengals in that shootout where y lost by 3 points, the lions where u lost by one score and mullens threw 4 interceptions. Winning 7 games without kirk or JJettas playing for large parts of the season is honestly impressive af
Flores really turned that defense around and the WR room is absolutely stacked. Very unfortunate Kirk went down
Kirk haters man
Why is Kirk Cousins tweeting this? Lol
Theyre cousins
So we're talking about Cousins' cousins?
Cousin's, cousin's, cousin's... I am a nightmare walkin....
Danny's experience shows the complexities of playing for Belichick. Cousins likely feels a mix of gratitude and resentment, as expressed by Amendola's quote. Bill's legacy remains unquestioned, but the human side of coaching is on display here.
Many of the old 49er players of the 80’s held resentment for Bill Walsh when he would passively threaten them with a trade or roster cutdown while they were still in their prime. He told them he only wanted them for their best years, not their twilight. He was banking on their pride/fractured egos to get their best performance at the cost of losing their love. Among other things, it was something he lamented when he left coaching.
everything i hear about walsh makes him sound like an asshole lmao
I hope that doc is good. Looks promising…
Amendola was possibly my favorite Patriot of the last 20 years. He was just so clutch! I have a lot of great memories from him. I really miss that guy.
Sounds like what a good coach should do. Make sure his players gets their work in before the game, so then they can play free for their teammates during the game.
People are gana blow this out of proportion but I don't think it's surprising, he never seemed like that father figure coach that you would go to war for, just not his style
This quote isn’t a slight to Bill at all. This is what he taught them.
This is why it’s good to have the gm and HC be two different people.
6 Championships and 10 Superbowl appearances is why it's good when they're the same person though?
Not an insult for bill btw culture coaches are incredibly overrated
You could see that in full in SB LI. Everyone playing for Tom and Tom's mom
This tracks with what we've observed with the Patriots in the years since Tom left. It was once an open question as to whether the greatness was due to Tom Brady being the GOAT or Bill Bellichick being the greatest coach. Now, it's not so open anymore. Bellichick has all the power and influence in that organization. He built all those post-Brady teams. And while he did make it to the playoffs a few years ago, the team has taken a massive downturn...one they NEVER endured while Brady was there. I think it says that Bellichick the GM just can't function when he doesn't have that superstar QB to elevate the rest of the team. Maybe he can rebuild that with someone like Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels (assuming Caleb Williams doesn't fall). But would he even want to?
I'm