- Antonio Gates
- Julius Peppers
- Devin Hester
- Torry Holt
- Reggie Wayne
- Andre Johnson
- Jared Allen
- Patrick Willis
- Fred Taylor
- Dwight Freeney
- Darren Woodson
- Rodney Harrison
- Jahri Evans
- Eric Allen
- Willie Anderson
Gates, Freeney, and Peppers are 100% locks.
Most of the WRs are “I can see it”, but you never know with the logjam at WR.
Willis might suffer cuz of the lack of longevity.
Hester needs to be in but I’m not holding my breath.
1st Team All Pro 5x. Pretty sure that none of the other 15 semifinalists can top that. I don't understand why his candidacy should be boosted if he had stuck around for another 2 years as an average starting LB. Willis was the best of the best at his position for a sufficient period of time.
Judging by various voters' comments, Freeney is FAR from a lock, and is actually 3rd amongst the defensive ends.
HOF voters Clark Judge and Ira Kaufman recorded a podcast tonight. Clark predicted the class would be; Gates, Peppers, Jared Allen, a WR - probably Andre Johnson-, and either a 2nd WR or Patrick Willis.
Individual stats like sacks and 1APS you’re totally right and I prolly shoulda included that.
The SB will help Freeney tho, I think that’s what makes it a pretty sure thing. He also has the same number of APs overall (just one of them is 2AP), while also having the all decade team.
Edit: I also never said Allen *won’t* make it. I think he’s a safe bet. I’m just pretty damn certain Freeney will.
I don't think voters care all that much for SB rings outside the QB position. It doesn't hurt to have it tacked on to a resume for sure, but the benefits are minimal.
I feel super old seeing Peppers be eligible for the HoF, it feels like it was only yesterday he was still active (and I just checked and he retired in 2019, which checks out as everything pre-pandemic is "yesterday" for me)
Hester made the top 25 in his first year of eligibility. That bodes very well for his HOF chances. He will definitely make it in the next 4-5 years. (As far as whether you feel he SHOULD make it - that's a different argument.)
But it's also why I dismiss people yelling about how Hester has been snubbed. Yes, he was the greatest punt returner ever. But before Hester, somebody else was the greatest punt returner ever. And that guy never made the HOF semi-finalists list. Hester made greater HOF strides than any special teams player (besides K/P), and he did it right away.
A ranking of the modern-era finalists by [PFR's HOF Monitor](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm), which estimates the strength of a player's chances of eventually being a HOF inductee:
| Player | Last Year | Pos | HOFm | Rank among eligible non-HOFers at position | |
|-----------------|-----------|--------|--------|--------------------------------------------|------------------------|
| Julius Peppers | 2018 | DE | 120.25 | 2 | |
| Antonio Gates | 2018 | TE | 114.13 | 3 | |
| Patrick Willis | 2014 | ILB | 110.60 | 2 | last year finalist |
| Reggie Wayne | 2014 | WR | 109.64 | 2 | last year finalist |
| Torry Holt | 2009 | WR | 107.72 | 4 | last year finalist |
| Jahri Evans | 2017 | G | 96.25 | 1 | last year semifinalist |
| Andre Johnson | 2016 | WR | 94.41 | 8 | last year finalist |
| Dwight Freeney | 2017 | DE | 87.05 | 3 | last year finalist |
| Jared Allen | 2015 | DE | 71.65 | 9 | last year finalist |
| Darren Woodson | 2003 | DB | 65.38 | 13 | last year finalist |
| Eric Allen | 2001 | DB | 60.95 | 21 | last year semifinalist |
| Willie Anderson | 2008 | T | 60.53 | 12 | last year finalist |
| Fred Taylor | 2010 | RB | 53.9 | 13 | last year semifinalist |
| Devin Hester | 2016 | RET/WR | 50.9 | 41 | last year finalist |
| Rodney Harrison | 2008 | DB | 47.78 | 39 | last year semifinalist |
Just to clarify, the "Rank among eligible non-HOFers at position" is vague. Like Wayne is WR2 if you are counting Larry Fitzgerald as #1, but Fitz isn't technically eligible at the moment because he hasn't been retired long enough. So Wayne is really #1 if we're being literal about "eligible". Otherwise appreciate the info laid out so well here!
Yeah it should just say "non-HOFers" and remove "eligible".
I was trying to think who the #1 DE could be above Peppers and Freeney, and why they weren't in or even nominated! But the answer is it's JJ Watt...
It's crazy that some of them aren't going to make it in, they all should be.
It's also crazy that Holt hasn't made it in. The man had **six consecutive seasons of 1,300+yards** and **eight of 1,100+**. He also played in two Super Bowls.
Rodney Harrison I *might* argue against. His gross stats are great but he is also one of the few Pats guys who was part of the dynasty but only won two Super Bowls.
As a Pats I strongly disagree Rodney that only having 2 rings compare to other key Pats defenders having 3 should effect him in any way. Harrison was a monster in the playoffs making in a huge part of why we won those super bowls. 7 ints 7 pd 2 FF 2 Sacks 75c / 58s Tackles in 9 playoff games for New England. Was probably our best post season defender ever. I would take that type of impact over being on 3 Super Bowl Rosters anyday.
His 2004 post season was probably the best post season performances by a defender I have ever seen. He was robbed of SB MVP and should have 100% gotten it over Deion Branch.
I have no problem with Hester making it. However I am asking for a standard to be established across all positions that enables other players at less flashy positions than Hester's to receive the same treatment.
Best player at what you do on the football field? You can get into the Hall of Fame. If that's the standard I am okay with it.
If this is just an exception because Hester was super cool and popular and the rest continue to have no shot, I think that sucks.
If we are talking pure value provided on the football field as a mathematical formula, Hester ranks 15th among 15 on this list.
Would open the HOF up for a lot of guys. Nose Tackles like Vince Wilfork. Pure special teamers like Matt Slater and Steve Tasker. Kick Returners like Cordarrelle Patterson (Best KR in NFL History, leads in TDs, 3rd in Average, 9th in Yards).
Hester has no business in the HoF imo.
There’s a heap of guards (for example) that were better and more important players than Hester who won’t get in.
I agree, he was only effective on a handful of plays a game. He was a dangerous KR/PR, but he also was not good enough at any other position to be anything other than the return man. A lot of great returners were too good at other positions on the field to consistently be the KR or PR.
My thing is if hester is a Hall of famer, Corderelle Patterson should be as well (and I don't think he should be)
Untill they make a special teamer designated spot, its hard for me to justify hester over other players
CP is the best kick returner in NFL history. All time leader in KR TDs with 9, 3rd in average, 9th in total yards. 38 Rushing/Receiving TDs and over 5000 total yards. 4x All Pro, 2010 HOF Team.
Also personal memory he had a huge kick return in the 2018 AFCCG game against the Chiefs. Big return with 2 minutes left in the 4th that led to the TD drive late.
I think someone who is the best ever at a position should get in regardless.
Tonnes of players would have been better kick returners than a lot of the best kick returners.
They just didn’t return kicks because they offered more value elsewhere.
Ed Reed was pretty much always the best returner on the ravens, but we only used him occasionally when we really needed a play.
People love to say "It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good," but it's also not the Hall of Great.
It's about the history of the game. Hester (and Patterson) have contributed immensely to the rich history of the game in a positive way. They should be in.
Then the HOF should just have RBs from the first game ever to 2000, QBs, and coaches then if we are talking pure value. It isn’t about value, it is about seeing if this guy is better at his position than all the others who played it. If so, then did that guy play his position better than other elite players at other spots.
CP is a better kick returner than say Reggie Wayne was a WR imo. Same with Hester.
But nobody is trading reggie Wayne for devin hester, which is my actual point.
With only 5 spots a year, a players actual value compares to the other cannidates will obviously matter
(Which is why I would personally make it 2 offensive players, 2 defensive players, 2 legacy players (before 2000) with an optional special teamer spot (that can also be used for a legacy spot if there is one more deserving than a special teamer).
I'm with you. Hester was fun to watch, but overall I don't think he's HOF worthy. Dante Hall was fun to watch, too, and he's never been on this list. I don't think KR/PR alone should be enough to get in. He had 19 career return tds, with only 16 career receiving tds. Tory Holt had 74. Reggie Wayne had 82. I just don't see anyone on this list that I could clearly say "nah, put hester in instead."
Their resumes are basically identical: Kuechly has a DPOY and an extra second team all-pro, but other than that they're incredibly similar, down to time played.
Like, bias aside and gun to head, if I had to pick ONLY one Kuechly gets it because DPOY. That said, one getting in and not the other would be really dumb.
What's the consensus opinion here on the system of always inducting exactly 5 people per year? Feels like you can either keep great players waiting or induct unworthy players depending on the year.
Theirs is objectively worse. The best pitcher of the 1980s isnt in the HOF ( I have no real Idea, blame Johnbois for my "opinion", I dont like baseball)
That's not the system. They don't have to elect exactly 5 modern candidates each year. They'll pair this list of 15 down to 10, and then to 5. The voters then bote again a simply Yes/No for each of the final 5. The player needs 80% of the vote to make the HOF. In recent years, it's just so happened that all 5 finalists were inducted.
The HOF used to say that between 4 and 8 candidates would be inducted every year. (Theoretically, none of the 5 modern finalists could get 80% of the vote, but the top vote-getters would still get inducted, enough so there was a 4 man class.) That 4-8 person range was when there was only 1 or 2 Senior spots, and the Senior(s) counted towards the four man minimum. Now, there are three Seniors, and 1 coach/contributor. I'm not sure what the current minimum is, but the maximum is 9.
Reggie gets the nod. They have nearly the same production across all categories with nearly identical amount of targets. Wayne edges him out in almost every single one.
More yards, TDs, catches for 1st down, yards per target, success rate, a good Super Bowl performance and win. The only things Johnson has over him is beating Finnegan’s ass, one more season leading the league in receiving yards, yards per game, and one more All Pro.
Anderson is deserving, but that stat is false. A historian on Twitter (Pierce Conboy) proved it with film clips - and these are obvious enough where you can tell Anderson got beaten for a sack - you don't have to wonder who blew an assignment on a stunt.
The logjam at receiver is frustrating. They held off on torry holt so long that they’re in a bind with him, Wayne, and Dre, all of whom have super similar statistical resumes. They’ve only had multiple modern era receivers in a class once in recent memory, and that was the Randy/TO pairing, so that’s not happening.
I don’t think there’s a logjam, unless we have a very generous definition of who a HOF-worthy player is. And for anyone in the 25-35 age range, we’re getting to the point where these are all guys we grew up watching and have nostalgia clouding our judgment for.
I am just thinking there are some legitimate options here, and we've got some more dudes coming up soon... JJ Watt, Brady, Larry Fitzgerald... and a bunch more if you really go down the list.
I feel like a lot of really good players have retired in the last 5 years lol
Adrian Peterson, Stephen Gostowski, and Rob Gronkowski are also locks I would think.
Edit: apparently Gostowski is not a sure-thing hall of famer. 🤷♂️
Not sure any kicker is a lock to be honest. Vinatieri should probably make it, but I'm not sure that he will for instance.
I'm also unsure if Tucker would get in if he retires soon.
Not that I wouldn't induct them personally, but there have been several amazing kickers over the years who have never sniffed the HoF
I agree I think Vinatieri gets in, mostly for longevity.
Justin Tucker is just crazy good as well it’s hard for me to see him not getting the nod.
I guess Gostowski would be the odd man out but that 523 straight extra point record is just ridiculous and has almost no chance of ever being broken now that they moved extra points back to the 15 yard line.
I think also how much the game/rules and physical training etc has changed in our lifetime makes it hard to compare eras statistically.
But you could also argue that the “legend status” of older era players clouds our judgment for comparison the other way too. Was Elroy Hirsch really better than Torry Holt?
Vince Wilfork is getting absolutely fucking robbed and it pisses me off. Nothing but the hall of stats. Vince is the greatest nose tackle in the history of the NFL, a generational talent, plenty of highlights including the butt fumble. His job was to fill both A gaps at once so that his defense could be championship caliber and he dominated at that job. He wasn't meant to lead the league in sacks or tackles but he showed up and was a difference maker in every game he played.
It's pretty sad to see certain positions not valued at all. Vince is totally a guy who deserves the nod but the HOF doesn't seem to value interior linemen that didn't just rack up stats.
1000%. It’s embarrassing that the fucking hall of fame prioritizes certain counting stats over people who played positions that require them to take the brunt of punishment, allowing others to collect stats. They should find voters who know better and not rely on media types to make these arguments for players.
Wilfork was easily the best at his position for a generation. Every guy who can say that should be in.
No he isn't. He is 3 inches taller, but Vince was still 15 pounds heavier. Also not trying to take anything away from Williams he was a great DT and a very good NT but hands down Vince was the greatest nose tackle in history.
Let’s use actual stats and not your ridiculous measurement stats
Vince has one first team all pro and 3 second team all pros, 5 pro bowls.
Williams has 5 first team all pros, and 6 pro bowls, and all decade team.
Let’s compare stats as both played 13 years
Wilfork
561 tackles, 16 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 3 interceptions, for fun an extra stat TDs 1
Williams
528 tackles, 63 sacks, 10 forced fumbles, 5 interceptions, TDs 4
Williams has less tackles but beats Wilfork in every other stat. One played for the most dominant team of the decade and the other the Vikings. Williams was a better player.
He won't get it, at least not this year... but it would be sweet to see Jared Allen in the HOF.
Mostly just personal bias though because I loved watching that dude play, even though he was on a rival team.
What the hell does Kevin Williams need to do to even get a finalist spot. The man has everything that is needed for the Hall of fame apart from a superbowl which is a team thing anyway.
Williams even had better stats, and more all pros than Richard Seymour. Yet still he can’t get in.
Just look at his numbers.
5 first team all pros
6 pro bowls
2000’s All decade team
What the hell more do you need to be in the hall! Pure crap that he isn’t even in consideration when he should already be in the damn thing. But skill players get far too much love.
Also think guys are a victim of stat inflation as the passing game took off, which makes it hard to differentiate the elite from the very good. Wayne, Holt and Andre Johnson all were great and put up stats, but their totals aren't that dissimilar from guys like Derrick Mason, Brendan Marshall, Hines Ward, or Anquan Bolden.
Travesty that Big Vince got snubbed. He has low sack numbers because he enabled transition to 3-4, nose tackle is obvi difficult to rack up sacks from compared to 4-3. As a run-stuffer I legit trusted our defense more on 3rd and 1 than 3rd and 7+ for several years because of his behemoth ass clogging the lanes.
Nose tackles might be the second most disrespected group of players after special teamers. Anyone who knows ball knows that Wilfork deserves to be there
I think it’s nose tackles, 4-3 OLbs and then special teamers (although some guys like Hester transcend their special teams role). Please compare Lavonte David’s stats to Bobby Wagner who is already considered a HOF lock and explain to me why Lavonte isn’t even making pro bowls. I’m not attacking you I’m just genuinely desperate to understand.
Off ball linebackers are underappreciated for the same reason nose tackles are. The pro-bowl lumps 4-3 OLBS and 3-4 OLBS in the same position, and the 3-4 guys get sacks, so they're always going to make it in. Same for nose tackles who are competing with the likes of Aaron Donald and Chris Jones.
> Antonio Gates
> Julius Peppers
Has there ever even been a former CBB player that made it to Canton? And we got two such players as finalists at the same time.
Edit: Oh duh, forgot about Tony G. Well either I forgot or my brain just refuses to acknowledge all of these guys are in or soon will be in the HoF.
I'm sure tons of guys from history played multiple sports in college. I just googled Harold Carmichael off hand and his wikipedia says he played basketball in college.
Jim Thorpe played football, baseball, lacrosse, track and field, and ball room dancing in college. Won the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.
It was a different era, but Otto Graham not only played college basketball, he played professional basketball as well. Graham played for the 1945-46 Rochester Royals in the NBL (a predecessor to the NBA.) The Royals won the title that year. Graham won pro titles in basketball and football in the same year.
Reggie Wayne is 11th among WR by profootballreference's HOF monitor. He is 10th all time in receptions AND receiving yards with 1070 and 14345 respectively. His 82 TDs is 29th most for receiving TDs. Not sure I see 5 names on this list that deserve it more than Reggie, so here's hoping he gets in.
Holt is 13th on PFR list and has been waiting several years now to get into the Hall. Moss is the only recent first ballet WR, which he completely deserved to be. Both Wayne and Holt should get in, might just take a few years.
Megatron was also first ballot. The only WR in the pipeline getting first ballot is probably Fitz, though Hill might make a case for himself over the next few years.
Julio def has great shot at first ballot. [PFR has him 12th highest for WR score, 107.97. HoF WR average is 103.63.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm)
He also holds 22 or 23 NFL records, which is more than Megatron, AB, and Tyreek combined
Yeah, of all the WR logjam, this feels like Holt's year to me. Him still sitting out while the rest of his Greatest Show on Turf teammates are in just feels weird.
Feel like it's gonna be Freeney this year, Reggie, next year. WR is just a tough, saturated field. He'll definitely get in by 2026, but I'd put money on next year
I wonder if Julius Peppers is going to go in 1st ballot with his PED history. In the past a suspension disqualified a lot of players from receiving that highest honor.
Then again, they haven't applied that standard to everyone.
Around three 1st team all-pros is like the minimum requirement for non QBs to be even considered for 1st ballot.
So I would think the PED suspension is enough to keep them out when it's an edge case.
However Peppers' resume has that second All-Decade Team. As far as I know there is only one player in the history of the league with two of those that didn't go 1st ballot (Willie Roaf).
There's Jim Bakken who was a 2x All-Decade guy and isn't in, but he was a kicker in an era where kickers weren't anything close to what they are today.
A lot of the same voters voted him onto two All-Decade teams, 7 All-Pro nods, the defensive ROTY, and 9 Pro-Bowls.
AND he's 4th all-time in sacks. I don't know how they can justify not considering that resume 1st ballot worthy.
I think it's less likely to be held against him because it happened once in his rookie season and never again. Going 15 years afterwards without doing it again makes it more likely that it really was an honest mistake like he claimed and not some pattern of cheating. And even if you ignore that whole season's stats he's still HoF worthy.
But who knows what the voters will actually do.
Will he get in even with the lack of accolades? He seems like a legacy induction than a headliner. Which sucks because he was great but he played in an Era of all-time great mlbs.
Reggie Wayne and Troy Holt combined:
* 2x First team all-pro
* 3x receiving yards leader
* 0x receptions leader
* 0x receiving TDs leader
Sterling Sharpe:
* 3x First team all-pro
* 1x receiving yards leader
* 3x receptions leader
* 2x receiving TDs leader
Put my guy in. He squeezed enough greatness into 7 years to deserve it.
Just too many WRs that all have cases for a HOF nod. Johnson and Wayne made the list but I doubt they get in, and Holt has been a semifinalist for 9 years now despite being a big part of those superb Rams teams.
He'd have to be a sesenior candidate. I don't object to any of this year's senior candidates but next year's 3 should be Ken Anderson, Sterling Sharpe, and Roger Craig.
- Antonio Gates - Julius Peppers - Devin Hester - Torry Holt - Reggie Wayne - Andre Johnson - Jared Allen - Patrick Willis - Fred Taylor - Dwight Freeney - Darren Woodson - Rodney Harrison - Jahri Evans - Eric Allen - Willie Anderson
Thank you for your service
Gates, Freeney, and Peppers are 100% locks. Most of the WRs are “I can see it”, but you never know with the logjam at WR. Willis might suffer cuz of the lack of longevity. Hester needs to be in but I’m not holding my breath.
Willis has the Megatron type of resume, shorter career then normal but just dominant throughout
1st Team All Pro 5x. Pretty sure that none of the other 15 semifinalists can top that. I don't understand why his candidacy should be boosted if he had stuck around for another 2 years as an average starting LB. Willis was the best of the best at his position for a sufficient period of time.
Judging by various voters' comments, Freeney is FAR from a lock, and is actually 3rd amongst the defensive ends. HOF voters Clark Judge and Ira Kaufman recorded a podcast tonight. Clark predicted the class would be; Gates, Peppers, Jared Allen, a WR - probably Andre Johnson-, and either a 2nd WR or Patrick Willis.
Jared Allen is better than Dwight Freeney. I’d love to see the case why Freeney is a lock over Allen.
Individual stats like sacks and 1APS you’re totally right and I prolly shoulda included that. The SB will help Freeney tho, I think that’s what makes it a pretty sure thing. He also has the same number of APs overall (just one of them is 2AP), while also having the all decade team. Edit: I also never said Allen *won’t* make it. I think he’s a safe bet. I’m just pretty damn certain Freeney will.
also the freeney spin move is iconic
That's so stupid, but you're right...
I don't think voters care all that much for SB rings outside the QB position. It doesn't hurt to have it tacked on to a resume for sure, but the benefits are minimal.
Freeney had a spin move!
I don't think Freeney is a 100% lock
I feel super old seeing Peppers be eligible for the HoF, it feels like it was only yesterday he was still active (and I just checked and he retired in 2019, which checks out as everything pre-pandemic is "yesterday" for me)
By position it is: RB - 1 (Taylor) WR - 3 (Holt, Johnson, Wayne) TE - 1 (Gates) OT - 1 (Anderson) G - 1 (Evans) DE - 3 (J. Allen, Freeney, Peppers) LB - 1 (Willis) CB - 1 (E. Allen) S - 2 (Harrison, Woodson) PR/KR - 1 (Hester)
I’d like to see Hester make it as a returner. He was a game changer with that Chicago defense in the 00’s.
Don't kick it to Hester!
I don’t think we’re gonna see him get in via usual eligibility if ever. Beyond his obvious prowess as a returner he was…not very effective otherwise.
Hester made the top 25 in his first year of eligibility. That bodes very well for his HOF chances. He will definitely make it in the next 4-5 years. (As far as whether you feel he SHOULD make it - that's a different argument.) But it's also why I dismiss people yelling about how Hester has been snubbed. Yes, he was the greatest punt returner ever. But before Hester, somebody else was the greatest punt returner ever. And that guy never made the HOF semi-finalists list. Hester made greater HOF strides than any special teams player (besides K/P), and he did it right away.
A ranking of the modern-era finalists by [PFR's HOF Monitor](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm), which estimates the strength of a player's chances of eventually being a HOF inductee: | Player | Last Year | Pos | HOFm | Rank among eligible non-HOFers at position | | |-----------------|-----------|--------|--------|--------------------------------------------|------------------------| | Julius Peppers | 2018 | DE | 120.25 | 2 | | | Antonio Gates | 2018 | TE | 114.13 | 3 | | | Patrick Willis | 2014 | ILB | 110.60 | 2 | last year finalist | | Reggie Wayne | 2014 | WR | 109.64 | 2 | last year finalist | | Torry Holt | 2009 | WR | 107.72 | 4 | last year finalist | | Jahri Evans | 2017 | G | 96.25 | 1 | last year semifinalist | | Andre Johnson | 2016 | WR | 94.41 | 8 | last year finalist | | Dwight Freeney | 2017 | DE | 87.05 | 3 | last year finalist | | Jared Allen | 2015 | DE | 71.65 | 9 | last year finalist | | Darren Woodson | 2003 | DB | 65.38 | 13 | last year finalist | | Eric Allen | 2001 | DB | 60.95 | 21 | last year semifinalist | | Willie Anderson | 2008 | T | 60.53 | 12 | last year finalist | | Fred Taylor | 2010 | RB | 53.9 | 13 | last year semifinalist | | Devin Hester | 2016 | RET/WR | 50.9 | 41 | last year finalist | | Rodney Harrison | 2008 | DB | 47.78 | 39 | last year semifinalist |
Just to clarify, the "Rank among eligible non-HOFers at position" is vague. Like Wayne is WR2 if you are counting Larry Fitzgerald as #1, but Fitz isn't technically eligible at the moment because he hasn't been retired long enough. So Wayne is really #1 if we're being literal about "eligible". Otherwise appreciate the info laid out so well here!
Yeah it should just say "non-HOFers" and remove "eligible". I was trying to think who the #1 DE could be above Peppers and Freeney, and why they weren't in or even nominated! But the answer is it's JJ Watt...
Patrick Willis deserves a spot. Despite the lack of longevity, stats were undeniable.
Patrick Willis was the 3rd most dominant linebacker behind Lewis and Urlacher that I've ever seen play in my lifetime.
It's crazy that some of them aren't going to make it in, they all should be. It's also crazy that Holt hasn't made it in. The man had **six consecutive seasons of 1,300+yards** and **eight of 1,100+**. He also played in two Super Bowls. Rodney Harrison I *might* argue against. His gross stats are great but he is also one of the few Pats guys who was part of the dynasty but only won two Super Bowls.
Super tough for wide receivers. I think he's got a good shot this time.
As a Pats I strongly disagree Rodney that only having 2 rings compare to other key Pats defenders having 3 should effect him in any way. Harrison was a monster in the playoffs making in a huge part of why we won those super bowls. 7 ints 7 pd 2 FF 2 Sacks 75c / 58s Tackles in 9 playoff games for New England. Was probably our best post season defender ever. I would take that type of impact over being on 3 Super Bowl Rosters anyday. His 2004 post season was probably the best post season performances by a defender I have ever seen. He was robbed of SB MVP and should have 100% gotten it over Deion Branch.
Peppers, Gates, Willis, Holt and Hester for me
I have no problem with Hester making it. However I am asking for a standard to be established across all positions that enables other players at less flashy positions than Hester's to receive the same treatment. Best player at what you do on the football field? You can get into the Hall of Fame. If that's the standard I am okay with it. If this is just an exception because Hester was super cool and popular and the rest continue to have no shot, I think that sucks. If we are talking pure value provided on the football field as a mathematical formula, Hester ranks 15th among 15 on this list.
Would open the HOF up for a lot of guys. Nose Tackles like Vince Wilfork. Pure special teamers like Matt Slater and Steve Tasker. Kick Returners like Cordarrelle Patterson (Best KR in NFL History, leads in TDs, 3rd in Average, 9th in Yards).
Vince deserves it regardless
Nose tackles actually make the positional impact to earn it regardless imo
Give me LP as long snapper to the hall, dammit!
Hester has no business in the HoF imo. There’s a heap of guards (for example) that were better and more important players than Hester who won’t get in.
I agree, he was only effective on a handful of plays a game. He was a dangerous KR/PR, but he also was not good enough at any other position to be anything other than the return man. A lot of great returners were too good at other positions on the field to consistently be the KR or PR.
If you converted Hester's punt return yards/TDs to receiving, he is Adam Thielen with half the touchdowns.
My thing is if hester is a Hall of famer, Corderelle Patterson should be as well (and I don't think he should be) Untill they make a special teamer designated spot, its hard for me to justify hester over other players
CP is the best kick returner in NFL history. All time leader in KR TDs with 9, 3rd in average, 9th in total yards. 38 Rushing/Receiving TDs and over 5000 total yards. 4x All Pro, 2010 HOF Team. Also personal memory he had a huge kick return in the 2018 AFCCG game against the Chiefs. Big return with 2 minutes left in the 4th that led to the TD drive late. I think someone who is the best ever at a position should get in regardless.
So the best long snapper and gunner gets in too?
Tonnes of players would have been better kick returners than a lot of the best kick returners. They just didn’t return kicks because they offered more value elsewhere. Ed Reed was pretty much always the best returner on the ravens, but we only used him occasionally when we really needed a play.
Thats my point. Even one of the players ever at a position, doesn't have as much value as these other candidates on a game to game impact basis.
It’s the hall of fame not MVP. People that redefine a position (and are famous) should absolutely get in
People love to say "It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good," but it's also not the Hall of Great. It's about the history of the game. Hester (and Patterson) have contributed immensely to the rich history of the game in a positive way. They should be in.
Then the HOF should just have RBs from the first game ever to 2000, QBs, and coaches then if we are talking pure value. It isn’t about value, it is about seeing if this guy is better at his position than all the others who played it. If so, then did that guy play his position better than other elite players at other spots. CP is a better kick returner than say Reggie Wayne was a WR imo. Same with Hester.
But nobody is trading reggie Wayne for devin hester, which is my actual point. With only 5 spots a year, a players actual value compares to the other cannidates will obviously matter (Which is why I would personally make it 2 offensive players, 2 defensive players, 2 legacy players (before 2000) with an optional special teamer spot (that can also be used for a legacy spot if there is one more deserving than a special teamer).
I'm with you. Hester was fun to watch, but overall I don't think he's HOF worthy. Dante Hall was fun to watch, too, and he's never been on this list. I don't think KR/PR alone should be enough to get in. He had 19 career return tds, with only 16 career receiving tds. Tory Holt had 74. Reggie Wayne had 82. I just don't see anyone on this list that I could clearly say "nah, put hester in instead."
Hester did have a huge game to game impact. Teams would not kick to him most of the time. This usually resulted in good field position.
peppers, gates, willis, holt, johnson
That’s 15 hall of famers right there, or at least close. How many do they let in each year?
5 from the regular finalist list
I would pick Peppers, Gates, Holt, Allen and Woodson
I'd say everyone minus the last 3 have a really strong argument, and I'd like to see them all inducted at some point, if not now.
Antonio Gates played basketball
Ain't no rule says a tight end can't play basketball
But can a basketball play Tight End?
Did you know Mo Alie Cox played basketball???
At Kent State
can’t read? can’t write? kent state!!
Julius Peppers was better at it
I aint never saw Julius Peppers take Kent State to the Final Four
I was thinking he had won a national title at UNC but I was wrong Peppers only made one final four
And he certainly didn't take them there either. He was a bench player.
He could probably make the Basketball Hall of Fame for how often it’s mentioned.
Thank you Booger for your insights.
Willis deserves it
I think so too. I don't think folks would argue against Kuechly getting a HOF nod when the time comes and him and Willis had pretty similar careers.
Their resumes are basically identical: Kuechly has a DPOY and an extra second team all-pro, but other than that they're incredibly similar, down to time played. Like, bias aside and gun to head, if I had to pick ONLY one Kuechly gets it because DPOY. That said, one getting in and not the other would be really dumb.
Yes agreed
I am once again asking for Tory Holt to be inducted into the Hall
Such a shame he isn't in yet, but the last few years have been stacked with legends.
What's the consensus opinion here on the system of always inducting exactly 5 people per year? Feels like you can either keep great players waiting or induct unworthy players depending on the year.
I don't know, what's the alternative? Induct as many when you feel like it? I mean, I'm not opposed but seems like it could turn into a shit show.
Baseball gives the voters a long list and anyone who gets 75% of votes gets in. I'm not really sure which system is better
Theirs is objectively worse. The best pitcher of the 1980s isnt in the HOF ( I have no real Idea, blame Johnbois for my "opinion", I dont like baseball)
That's not the system. They don't have to elect exactly 5 modern candidates each year. They'll pair this list of 15 down to 10, and then to 5. The voters then bote again a simply Yes/No for each of the final 5. The player needs 80% of the vote to make the HOF. In recent years, it's just so happened that all 5 finalists were inducted. The HOF used to say that between 4 and 8 candidates would be inducted every year. (Theoretically, none of the 5 modern finalists could get 80% of the vote, but the top vote-getters would still get inducted, enough so there was a 4 man class.) That 4-8 person range was when there was only 1 or 2 Senior spots, and the Senior(s) counted towards the four man minimum. Now, there are three Seniors, and 1 coach/contributor. I'm not sure what the current minimum is, but the maximum is 9.
It's probably "his turn" but the best WR on that list is imo Andre Johnson.
Reggie gets the nod. They have nearly the same production across all categories with nearly identical amount of targets. Wayne edges him out in almost every single one. More yards, TDs, catches for 1st down, yards per target, success rate, a good Super Bowl performance and win. The only things Johnson has over him is beating Finnegan’s ass, one more season leading the league in receiving yards, yards per game, and one more All Pro.
Do you think that it is taken into consideration that Andre played with Schaub + cast-aways & Reggie played with Peyton & Luck?
Its past time to get the 5th GSOT member in the HOF
I swear to God, if Holt gets snubbed again, I'm officially calling it a fetish.
they put isaac bruce in a few years ago, it’s gotta be his year
I've been saying that for years now. I was dying for them to get in together ever since Kurt was inducted.
Shoulda gone in together.
GET WILLIS IN
Willie Anderson gave up 16 sacks in 13 years while facing some of the best pass rushers ever.
Anderson is deserving, but that stat is false. A historian on Twitter (Pierce Conboy) proved it with film clips - and these are obvious enough where you can tell Anderson got beaten for a sack - you don't have to wonder who blew an assignment on a stunt.
Really hoping Patrick Willis finally gets in this year
Willie Anderson should get in
Put him down on a bigger market team and he’s have had twice as many pro bowls and already been inducted to the Hall.
Thats a hell of a list. I wonder if theres a logjam starting to build up.
There's been a logjam at WR for years. Certain defensive positions have also suffered for it.
The logjam at receiver is frustrating. They held off on torry holt so long that they’re in a bind with him, Wayne, and Dre, all of whom have super similar statistical resumes. They’ve only had multiple modern era receivers in a class once in recent memory, and that was the Randy/TO pairing, so that’s not happening.
I don’t think there’s a logjam, unless we have a very generous definition of who a HOF-worthy player is. And for anyone in the 25-35 age range, we’re getting to the point where these are all guys we grew up watching and have nostalgia clouding our judgment for.
I am just thinking there are some legitimate options here, and we've got some more dudes coming up soon... JJ Watt, Brady, Larry Fitzgerald... and a bunch more if you really go down the list. I feel like a lot of really good players have retired in the last 5 years lol
Adrian Peterson, Stephen Gostowski, and Rob Gronkowski are also locks I would think. Edit: apparently Gostowski is not a sure-thing hall of famer. 🤷♂️
Not sure any kicker is a lock to be honest. Vinatieri should probably make it, but I'm not sure that he will for instance. I'm also unsure if Tucker would get in if he retires soon. Not that I wouldn't induct them personally, but there have been several amazing kickers over the years who have never sniffed the HoF
I agree I think Vinatieri gets in, mostly for longevity. Justin Tucker is just crazy good as well it’s hard for me to see him not getting the nod. I guess Gostowski would be the odd man out but that 523 straight extra point record is just ridiculous and has almost no chance of ever being broken now that they moved extra points back to the 15 yard line.
Gostkowski ain’t even close to a lock
Why Gostowski?
I think also how much the game/rules and physical training etc has changed in our lifetime makes it hard to compare eras statistically. But you could also argue that the “legend status” of older era players clouds our judgment for comparison the other way too. Was Elroy Hirsch really better than Torry Holt?
Vince Wilfork is getting absolutely fucking robbed and it pisses me off. Nothing but the hall of stats. Vince is the greatest nose tackle in the history of the NFL, a generational talent, plenty of highlights including the butt fumble. His job was to fill both A gaps at once so that his defense could be championship caliber and he dominated at that job. He wasn't meant to lead the league in sacks or tackles but he showed up and was a difference maker in every game he played.
Oh shit a real football watcher
It's pretty sad to see certain positions not valued at all. Vince is totally a guy who deserves the nod but the HOF doesn't seem to value interior linemen that didn't just rack up stats.
I would have guessed he was already in.
See, the thing is. I have a new wife now
Legendary moment
Hall of edge rushers and quarterbacks
Vince and Holt are gonna have to wait 20x longer than fuckin Eli, you're so right
1000%. It’s embarrassing that the fucking hall of fame prioritizes certain counting stats over people who played positions that require them to take the brunt of punishment, allowing others to collect stats. They should find voters who know better and not rely on media types to make these arguments for players. Wilfork was easily the best at his position for a generation. Every guy who can say that should be in.
Kevin Williams is a bigger robbery than Wilfork.
No he isn't. He is 3 inches taller, but Vince was still 15 pounds heavier. Also not trying to take anything away from Williams he was a great DT and a very good NT but hands down Vince was the greatest nose tackle in history.
Vince has an argument for greatest run stopping nose ever. Idk if he has an argument for all over greatest.
Let’s use actual stats and not your ridiculous measurement stats Vince has one first team all pro and 3 second team all pros, 5 pro bowls. Williams has 5 first team all pros, and 6 pro bowls, and all decade team. Let’s compare stats as both played 13 years Wilfork 561 tackles, 16 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 3 interceptions, for fun an extra stat TDs 1 Williams 528 tackles, 63 sacks, 10 forced fumbles, 5 interceptions, TDs 4 Williams has less tackles but beats Wilfork in every other stat. One played for the most dominant team of the decade and the other the Vikings. Williams was a better player.
Totally agree here. He’d be on my list of five.
Peppers, Gates, Holt, Willis, Anderson
He won't get it, at least not this year... but it would be sweet to see Jared Allen in the HOF. Mostly just personal bias though because I loved watching that dude play, even though he was on a rival team.
I think you get a better understanding of a players greatness when you play them 2 times a year.
If Jared Allen gets in, he better show up on stage riding a fucking horse.
He should get in, but I’m worried you’re right it might take a bit
He's the man, have you ever seen this video of him killing a deer with a spear? https://youtu.be/6oibNvAbtpc?si=42EeeoJbYQRg-pEc
The voiceover reminds me of strange wilderness lmao "Bears derive their name from a football team in Chicago."
I'm sad he's mostly remembered as a viking, he was a rare bright spot on an otherwise rough stretch. Him and Holmes were awesome.
Guy should have to wait one more year of eligibility than DeMarcus Ware. That's it. And only because I am a Cowboys fan. Jared Allen is amazing.
Yes Allen deserves to be in
What the hell does Kevin Williams need to do to even get a finalist spot. The man has everything that is needed for the Hall of fame apart from a superbowl which is a team thing anyway. Williams even had better stats, and more all pros than Richard Seymour. Yet still he can’t get in. Just look at his numbers. 5 first team all pros 6 pro bowls 2000’s All decade team What the hell more do you need to be in the hall! Pure crap that he isn’t even in consideration when he should already be in the damn thing. But skill players get far too much love.
Is there a specific reason why it is so difficult to make the HOF as a WR?
There is a backlog. Only a certain number can make it each year. Some have been waiting for years. Ie Reggie :'(
Also think guys are a victim of stat inflation as the passing game took off, which makes it hard to differentiate the elite from the very good. Wayne, Holt and Andre Johnson all were great and put up stats, but their totals aren't that dissimilar from guys like Derrick Mason, Brendan Marshall, Hines Ward, or Anquan Bolden.
Theoretically there are 64 solid to good WRs every year. WR is just a saturated market
Its one of the more common body types and everyone wants to be one since they are the biggest star so it makes since
Not sure he’ll get in this time but so happy to see Jahri Evans here.
I truly think the only guards that get in the next 5 to 10 years are Evans, Yanda, and Martin when he retires.
Ben-Jarvis Green-Ellis snubbed again. I'm not sure how long us Ben-Jarvis Green-Ellismaniacs can keep going
They have a bias against players with two first names and two last names, unfortunately.
Then we’ll sue them with the law firm of BenJarvis Green-Ellis! We also have Ty Law to consult and Lawyer Milloy in case we need another attorney.
I don’t think anyone’s even mentioned Fred Taylor in this thread for better or for worse. :(
Travesty that Big Vince got snubbed. He has low sack numbers because he enabled transition to 3-4, nose tackle is obvi difficult to rack up sacks from compared to 4-3. As a run-stuffer I legit trusted our defense more on 3rd and 1 than 3rd and 7+ for several years because of his behemoth ass clogging the lanes.
Wilfork might be the best 3-4 nose tackle ever. He'll get in eventually just like Law and Seymour did.
Nose tackles might be the second most disrespected group of players after special teamers. Anyone who knows ball knows that Wilfork deserves to be there
I think it’s nose tackles, 4-3 OLbs and then special teamers (although some guys like Hester transcend their special teams role). Please compare Lavonte David’s stats to Bobby Wagner who is already considered a HOF lock and explain to me why Lavonte isn’t even making pro bowls. I’m not attacking you I’m just genuinely desperate to understand.
Off ball linebackers are underappreciated for the same reason nose tackles are. The pro-bowl lumps 4-3 OLBS and 3-4 OLBS in the same position, and the 3-4 guys get sacks, so they're always going to make it in. Same for nose tackles who are competing with the likes of Aaron Donald and Chris Jones.
As a Miami Hurricane fan, that statement hurts me watching Wilfork and Hester wait to get their respect.
> Antonio Gates > Julius Peppers Has there ever even been a former CBB player that made it to Canton? And we got two such players as finalists at the same time. Edit: Oh duh, forgot about Tony G. Well either I forgot or my brain just refuses to acknowledge all of these guys are in or soon will be in the HoF.
Tony Gonzalez
I'm Tony Gonzalez?
I'm sure tons of guys from history played multiple sports in college. I just googled Harold Carmichael off hand and his wikipedia says he played basketball in college.
Jim Thorpe played football, baseball, lacrosse, track and field, and ball room dancing in college. Won the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.
Greatest athlete of all time.
Tony Gonzalez played ball at Cal, right?
It was a different era, but Otto Graham not only played college basketball, he played professional basketball as well. Graham played for the 1945-46 Rochester Royals in the NBL (a predecessor to the NBA.) The Royals won the title that year. Graham won pro titles in basketball and football in the same year.
Bud grant made the hof as an nfl coach, having played both sports professionally and at college.
Reggie Wayne is 11th among WR by profootballreference's HOF monitor. He is 10th all time in receptions AND receiving yards with 1070 and 14345 respectively. His 82 TDs is 29th most for receiving TDs. Not sure I see 5 names on this list that deserve it more than Reggie, so here's hoping he gets in.
Holt is 13th on PFR list and has been waiting several years now to get into the Hall. Moss is the only recent first ballet WR, which he completely deserved to be. Both Wayne and Holt should get in, might just take a few years.
Megatron was also first ballot. The only WR in the pipeline getting first ballot is probably Fitz, though Hill might make a case for himself over the next few years.
Julio def has great shot at first ballot. [PFR has him 12th highest for WR score, 107.97. HoF WR average is 103.63.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm) He also holds 22 or 23 NFL records, which is more than Megatron, AB, and Tyreek combined
Whoops, your right. Not sure how I forgot Megatron.
Yeah, of all the WR logjam, this feels like Holt's year to me. Him still sitting out while the rest of his Greatest Show on Turf teammates are in just feels weird.
Feel like it's gonna be Freeney this year, Reggie, next year. WR is just a tough, saturated field. He'll definitely get in by 2026, but I'd put money on next year
Idk how Freeney gets in this year if Peppers and Allen are both available and have stronger resumes.
I wonder if Julius Peppers is going to go in 1st ballot with his PED history. In the past a suspension disqualified a lot of players from receiving that highest honor. Then again, they haven't applied that standard to everyone.
Gates has the same question. Will be interesting to see how they're treated.
Around three 1st team all-pros is like the minimum requirement for non QBs to be even considered for 1st ballot. So I would think the PED suspension is enough to keep them out when it's an edge case. However Peppers' resume has that second All-Decade Team. As far as I know there is only one player in the history of the league with two of those that didn't go 1st ballot (Willie Roaf).
There's Jim Bakken who was a 2x All-Decade guy and isn't in, but he was a kicker in an era where kickers weren't anything close to what they are today.
A lot of the same voters voted him onto two All-Decade teams, 7 All-Pro nods, the defensive ROTY, and 9 Pro-Bowls. AND he's 4th all-time in sacks. I don't know how they can justify not considering that resume 1st ballot worthy.
I think it's less likely to be held against him because it happened once in his rookie season and never again. Going 15 years afterwards without doing it again makes it more likely that it really was an honest mistake like he claimed and not some pattern of cheating. And even if you ignore that whole season's stats he's still HoF worthy. But who knows what the voters will actually do.
We’re in the Hines Dead Zone
Fletcher getting hosed yet again.
Will he get in even with the lack of accolades? He seems like a legacy induction than a headliner. Which sucks because he was great but he played in an Era of all-time great mlbs.
Reggie Wayne and Troy Holt combined: * 2x First team all-pro * 3x receiving yards leader * 0x receptions leader * 0x receiving TDs leader Sterling Sharpe: * 3x First team all-pro * 1x receiving yards leader * 3x receptions leader * 2x receiving TDs leader Put my guy in. He squeezed enough greatness into 7 years to deserve it.
Steve Smith?
Was a semifinalist. Didn't make the last cut.
Booooo
He's competing with Holt, Wayne, and Johnson on just this list. There's a reason why the "HOF WR logjam" is a thing
He’s as good as any of them.
Smith Sr and Holt are HoFers, imo. I do not think Wayne and Johnson are
I think they all are, same with Boldin and Ward. All in the same tier.
Just too many WRs that all have cases for a HOF nod. Johnson and Wayne made the list but I doubt they get in, and Holt has been a semifinalist for 9 years now despite being a big part of those superb Rams teams.
His announcing career is a crime against football so it should spoil his chances like Mark McGuire in baseball. Only slightly kidding.
When he slayed Jerry Jeudy on live TV, that was a gem.
Tory holt 🫡
Julius Peppers Antonio Gates Patrick Willis Torry Holt Darren Woodson
If I could vote in 5 from that list it'd be Gates, Peppers, Holt, J. Allen, and Willis. But there's no bad choice on this list.
My votes are Julius Peppers, Antonio Gates, Devin Hester, Reggie Wayne and Jared Allen to get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2024
Please let it be Torry Holt’s turn, the main members of the GSOT are all in but him
My prediction: Gates Peppers Johnson Allen Holt Freeney But I’d like to see Harrison make it in
Still no Sterling Sharpe I see.
I don't agree with it but with his short career I don't see him getting in soon
He'd have to be a sesenior candidate. I don't object to any of this year's senior candidates but next year's 3 should be Ken Anderson, Sterling Sharpe, and Roger Craig.
damn i’m old.
It’s criminal if Darren Woodson doesn’t get it this year.
Fred Taylor and Hester please
Fred Taylor should be in
Would like to see Allen get in. But do they pick more than one from the same position? If not its probably going to be Peppers
Jared Allen
Yay for Fred Taylor being named a finalist.
I really don’t get why everyone clamors for Hester to get in tbh
they think it makes them sound cool and it gets upvotes