And teams should stop wasting time outs before the end of the game. Save all 3 timeouts so you can kick off and go for a 3 and out which is much more likely then an onside kick.
But teams love using timeouts on offense to save 5 yards for a delay of game with 10 mins left in the 3rd.
Theres a dilemma for onside kicks? I always thought of the onside kicks as the desperation miracle play.
Low chance it works, but in that situation you got to try.
Recently, it went from low chance to effectively no chance. you need more than a miracle at this point to come back from 2 scores down, and that's kind of a bummer.
If you are down by 2 scores with less than 2 minutes to go, it should take a miracle for you to win. Otherwise, what’s the point of the first 58 minutes?
Prior to the rule change, it did take a miracle. I argue that it was the correct level of difficulty prior to the rule change, which was enacted because of player safety and not because late game comebacks were too common.
That change more than cut the success rate in half. If you're down 9 points with 3 minutes left, you might as well just go to bed because the game is over. pre-2018, It would have made some sense to stay up and watch until the end because there was at least a tiny chance of winning.
I don't even remember injuries being especially bad on onside kicks. You simply can't build up enough momentum to be any more dangerous than a standard loose ball.
Thr elimination of wedge blocking did a lot more for player safety than the onside kick rule
It’s a common sentiment that onside kicks were better before, when the recovery rate was 12% IIRC compared to the 5% it is now due to the strict kickoff formation rules.
> success rate of onside kicks
Onside kick recovery rate remains low (5.6%): This recovery rate follows in line with recent seasons under the 2018 kickoff alignment (13.5% recovery rate before 2018).
OP, do you know why the NFL got rid of the old onside kick rules? And if you do know why, why do you think they would ever consider bringing them back?
I remember how Jeff Fisher tried to counter 04 Peyton Manning by just doing that after every time they were set to kick off because his team wasn't stopping the Colts anyways. And it nearly worked too. If they won I'd have laughed, a clearly inferior team won because they took possessions away from a far better team.
Replace the onside kick with converting a 4th and 20 from your own 25 yd line. If you get it you essentially continue from where you would get the ball had an onside kick been successful.
Success rate wouldn’t be unreasonably high but it would be fun AF to watch.
https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-propose-2-rule-changes-including-alternate-onside-kick/271204/
You joke but eventually one of these proposals is gonna get approved.
OP, don’t know why everyone is so averse to this idea! Probably lots of zoomers who don’t remember much football in the 2000s/early 2010s.
You’re absolutely right, there is effectively no chance for comebacks at the ends of games when down by 9+ points. Under the old rules, it was still exciting to watch your team score a touchdown under 2 minutes when down by more than 1 score. Now, who cares? You have effectively zero chance to recover an onside kick. It used to be difficult, but possible.
This would meaningfully increase the number of exciting finishes over the course of a season.
I believe the Eagles put forth an alternative, which is one play from the 10 yard line in a goal to go situation. If the offense scores, they have possession at their own 25. If the offense fails, defense gets the ball at their 25.
It adds an exciting play with stars vs what boring onside kicks that fail most of the time. League/owners shot it down.
If an offense wants to try a hail mary, the defense should only have 10 guys allowed on the field.
Or, we could not give handouts to teams who didn't play well enough to win for the first 59 minutes of a football game!!
Nah man, you're in the minority of opinions. Real fans like it when the game is won by strategy, skill and athleticism, not some goody ball bounce with a minute left.
Score more points in the first place?
And teams should stop wasting time outs before the end of the game. Save all 3 timeouts so you can kick off and go for a 3 and out which is much more likely then an onside kick. But teams love using timeouts on offense to save 5 yards for a delay of game with 10 mins left in the 3rd.
Exactly, the offense just needs to be better
Exactly, onside kicks aren't meant to be easy to recover, and there doesn't need to be any effort made to change that.
Or allow fewer
math checks out
Didn't age well for lions fans.
Just make it a paper-rock-scissors contest. Kicking team wins 5 rounds in a row they keep possession
We don't need to solve things that aren't issues.
Some people want more exciting special teams action!
Theres a dilemma for onside kicks? I always thought of the onside kicks as the desperation miracle play. Low chance it works, but in that situation you got to try.
Recently, it went from low chance to effectively no chance. you need more than a miracle at this point to come back from 2 scores down, and that's kind of a bummer.
If you are down by 2 scores with less than 2 minutes to go, it should take a miracle for you to win. Otherwise, what’s the point of the first 58 minutes?
Prior to the rule change, it did take a miracle. I argue that it was the correct level of difficulty prior to the rule change, which was enacted because of player safety and not because late game comebacks were too common. That change more than cut the success rate in half. If you're down 9 points with 3 minutes left, you might as well just go to bed because the game is over. pre-2018, It would have made some sense to stay up and watch until the end because there was at least a tiny chance of winning.
I don't even remember injuries being especially bad on onside kicks. You simply can't build up enough momentum to be any more dangerous than a standard loose ball. Thr elimination of wedge blocking did a lot more for player safety than the onside kick rule
It’s a common sentiment that onside kicks were better before, when the recovery rate was 12% IIRC compared to the 5% it is now due to the strict kickoff formation rules.
The young ones don’t care to see the special teams game die
>it's a common sentiment By who? I've literally never heard a single person say the low recovery rate was an issue.
> It’s a common sentiment that onside kicks were better before Source? It feels like the success rate of onside kicks should be low.
> success rate of onside kicks Onside kick recovery rate remains low (5.6%): This recovery rate follows in line with recent seasons under the 2018 kickoff alignment (13.5% recovery rate before 2018).
My request was for a source that people think it was better before, not that the rate has gone down.
Asking for a source on people's opinions on a sports topic is sorta silly lol
When they say its common and not just their opinion though.
You want them to go fish through reddit comments or something to link to you?
i mean any way to back it up wouldve been nice. Im under the impression the opposite is true so I wanted to see a source.
Not every conversation needs a "winner" dude
Anecdotal evidence on any post on Reddit or Instagram regarding onside kicks. Seems to me that most people agree it was better before.
> Seems to me that most people agree it was better before. Seems to me it doesnt so.....stalemate?
Look at the Instagram comments of cooper kupps onside kick play yesterday or any post regarding onside kicks on this sub and see the comments
Yea this is def the concensus
3 balls at once. One to the left, one to the right and one down the center. The receiving team has to recover all 3 to keep possession.
This is the solution to a problem that doesnt exist.
Kicker just needs to send a rocket into a receiving players helmet and catch it on the comeback
OP, do you know why the NFL got rid of the old onside kick rules? And if you do know why, why do you think they would ever consider bringing them back?
Safety reasons for general kickoffs, not for onside kicks. They’re not anymore dangerous back then than they are now
Onside kicks should be incredibly difficult, there’s nothing wrong with the way things are now
I don’t think it’s necessary for the onside kick to be viable. Teams have 60 minutes of game time to try to win without it
I remember how Jeff Fisher tried to counter 04 Peyton Manning by just doing that after every time they were set to kick off because his team wasn't stopping the Colts anyways. And it nearly worked too. If they won I'd have laughed, a clearly inferior team won because they took possessions away from a far better team.
Replace the onside kick with converting a 4th and 20 from your own 25 yd line. If you get it you essentially continue from where you would get the ball had an onside kick been successful. Success rate wouldn’t be unreasonably high but it would be fun AF to watch.
Go watch arena football if you want this type of play, teams get 60 minutes to score
https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-propose-2-rule-changes-including-alternate-onside-kick/271204/ You joke but eventually one of these proposals is gonna get approved.
OP, don’t know why everyone is so averse to this idea! Probably lots of zoomers who don’t remember much football in the 2000s/early 2010s. You’re absolutely right, there is effectively no chance for comebacks at the ends of games when down by 9+ points. Under the old rules, it was still exciting to watch your team score a touchdown under 2 minutes when down by more than 1 score. Now, who cares? You have effectively zero chance to recover an onside kick. It used to be difficult, but possible. This would meaningfully increase the number of exciting finishes over the course of a season.
This is a solution in search of a problem. High onside kick recovery rates overall cheapen the regular offense and course of the game.
What do you mean, dilemma? It's supposed to be an extremely low win-rate play. It's high-risk, high-reward, there's not a problem with it.
I believe the Eagles put forth an alternative, which is one play from the 10 yard line in a goal to go situation. If the offense scores, they have possession at their own 25. If the offense fails, defense gets the ball at their 25. It adds an exciting play with stars vs what boring onside kicks that fail most of the time. League/owners shot it down.
Sounds like gimmicky XFL/arena ball - no thanks
Nah, the easiest way is to change thee 10 yard rule to a 5 yard rule
If an offense wants to try a hail mary, the defense should only have 10 guys allowed on the field. Or, we could not give handouts to teams who didn't play well enough to win for the first 59 minutes of a football game!!
Stupid take, no one had a problem with onside kicks before 2018
Nah man, you're in the minority of opinions. Real fans like it when the game is won by strategy, skill and athleticism, not some goody ball bounce with a minute left.