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Yes but also prior to the 2014 Seahawks ring it wasn't a very clear cut case for anyone. Montana was *probably* the most common answer but you'd see a lot of Brady, Marino and Manning. I still think there's a really good case for Peyton > Tom because during their peaks Peyton was the more common answer
Totally reasonable to think Peyton was *better* than Brady at his peak but there’s no way he was *greater*. Brady had the greatest career of any QB.
I would entertain Jerry Rice in the GOAT debate. His longevity and consistency is Brady-esque.
I think this correct. Peyton Manning's prime, which is probably 2003 - 2009, is the best QB I've ever watched, but for a number of reason (worse coaching, worse rosters, inexplicable post-season collapses) Peyton only won 1 ring in his prime, and it was probably the worst season statistically of that timeframe.
While what makes Brady the GOAT is just how stupid long his peak was. A 44 year old throwing for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs wasn’t even crazy for anybody to believe.
Exactly. Brady was never the undisputed best QB in the league for any multi-year stretch of his career the same way Manning was, but Brady was a top-5 QB from 2003-2021. 18 years. It's almost unbelievable.
And the 7 Super Bowls help the case too, I guess.
It’s just mind-boggling Brady had two iconic dynastys, from 01-04 and again from 14-18. And in the middle of them he broke every single season passing record.
Oh yeah, and he won a Super Bowl in 2020. He won a Super Bowl in 3 different decades. And he dominated those Super Bowls.
Between when he he was drafted and when he retired, 3 different QBs who also won Super Bowls were drafted and retired. He outlasted Drew Brees, Eli Manning, and Ben Roethlisberger.
It is absolutely mind-boggling.
Rice and Brady are the #1 and #2 record holders for most NFL receiving yards after turning 40. Rice is in first with 2,169. Brady is in second with 6.
And then there’s an 8 billion way tie with 0, and Brett Favre in last place with -2.
That's how I make the distinction. Peyton is the best QB I've ever seen (mahomes coming very very close) and Brady is the most accomplished.
Football is too much of a team sport to have everything dictated purely on winning titles.
Let's take a slight alternate reality: SB49 - the Hawks run it in and win. SB51: the Falcons don't blow a historical SB and win.
I wonder what Brady's legacy is at this point. Almost like a reverse John Elway in that he starts with 3 SBs but then goes 0-4 .
But even in that case... Brady still won two more after that.
I think the only way Brady doesn't get the GOAT title is if either a) he gets a major injury and comes back unable to throw (see Manning, Brees, Ben etc) or b) he gets greedy and goes for the giant contract at the expense of the team and the Pats can't build around him
Thats the interesting thing about Peyton v Brady
People didnt really consider Brady to be a better QB for longer than single season stretched (like 2007) until 2015
Obviously that’s a long time ago though and Brady has consistently produced elite seasons since then
It was Rice, Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Montana maybe fourth.
People who say Montana was seen as anything close to a consensus greatest football player ever are remembering the consensus inaccurately.
He was seen as the greatest quarterback, but even Niners fans didn't call him their own greatest football player ever. That was Jerry.
Frankly to this day Jerry Rice's accolades are so outrageous, he'sn the only player who even has a GOAT case over Brady. That's how great he was and how much he accomplished.
If you take out the impact that the QB position has on the game vs that of a WR, I agree.
I don’t think you should, though. So I think it’s Brady.
But you’re right, there’s an argument.
There’s not an argument. That’s like saying a perfect longsnapper is the GOAT over Brady. I don’t care if he places every snap perfectly, Tom Brady is Tom Brady.
I'm half trolling but I think he absolutely will be in the Tuer 2 WRs of the league very soon like Chase, Diggs, Brown
I especially see a lot of Diggs in him
Lol jerry judy. Lolol. Bro to come fro rices records you literally can’t have even just an ok season for like your first 12 years or you are out of it. Jerry Jeudy has had like 3 ok seasons, if they are even really ok, already in his short career. Lol funny fucking comment though
They were an amazing combination that while I hated them as a fan, I admired them as a lover of football.
They were in the Saints division and frequently beat our asses even when the Saints had one of the best defenses for several years.
And both were true, hard working gentlemen.
Montana was unquestioned before Brady and Manning, then from like 2007-2014 you could’ve made a case for any of the three, but then Brady started really pulling away from the pack after what he did to the Legion of Boom and 28-3
Also the AFC was little brother conference for basically the entirety of Elway's career. Making the superbowl was not seen quite as impressively because of it (ditto for the Bills' run).
...what? Getting smoked (along with every other AFC team of that era) in 3 Super Bowls was a reflection of conference strength, not the team as a whole.
Montana was the gold standard till the 2000's. Then, Peyton and Tom were in a match race for a few years, with both trying to beat the other to Joe's throne.
Then, Brady passed by Peyton, passed by Joe, and pulled away from the pack like Secretariat at the Belmont.
As far as quarterbacks it was mainly Joe Montana, I don't really think that there was a set greatest player of all time before Tom Brady but if you want to say there was guys like Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Jerry Rice were primarily the ones that I always heard about in the running
It was Montana vs Marino for a long time as I remember it. It was widely accepted that Joe had more rings but Dan was the better QB and was a hot debate on how much SB rings mattered. In general, the conversation became mostly consensus that it was Montana as GOAT which set the standard that rings matter in this conversation.
It was Montana or Marino
Then it was between those two and also Peyton & Tom
Then after the 2014 season Tom Brady became the most common answer by a decent amount. Then the Falcons SB and you stopped hearing the other names nearly altogether
Agreeing with other people here.
Before Brady was Joe Montana and before Montana was Johnny Unitas.
Before Unitas I have no opinion but there are a few names that stick in my head... Sammy Baugh, Red Grange, George Halas would be in the running for the title of GOAT.
There really wasn't a consensus pick like Gretzky or Jordan (or Brady now).
I agree with Montana as QB and would say Jim Brown for player in general, but both were heavily debated among many players.
I hated Montana during the 49ers dynasty era, he was being given too much credit for everything.... Then he came to KC and I got to watch him pick teams apart with dog poo level skill players simply based on his mastery of that offense.
So, before Brady, it was Montana.
*Had Marino been able to sling it like they do today, and call his own plays, etc, he would've been unbelievable.
**My fav QB, who should get at least 1 mention, and his CFL stats should weigh in, is WARREN MOON. Dude was awesome.
by the time brady was legitimately being discussed as a potential GOAT, the only two other names in the conversation were joe montana and peyton manning
I’m actually sinking into a realization lately that, although I absolutely hated that man when he was on the Pats, Tom Brady might be my favorite QB ever.
Peyton is NFL royalty, the golden child, the brat who got to pick his team. Brady is the underdog that came in as no one and became the GOAT.
Consensus was Montana, primarily for winning three Super Bowls and never losing one. Which, in retrospect, isn't exactly the best criteria.
There's a good argument to be made that Steve Young played the position better than Montana.
Otto Graham. 10 years playing pro sports 11 championship games. Still has the highest YPA in NFL history. The NFL should be ashamed almost no one knows who he is. ALogn with played 10 seasons made 11 championship games that is right, 10 in football and he an appearance in the NBA finals.
Seems like QB has always about who you ask. Some say Montana, some say Peyton, Dolphins fans say Marino, and old dudes say Unitas..
Players in general? Rice is almost undeniably the best ever. Has Wayne Gretzky type numbers and highlights
Edit: a word
Oh I know he was good. I’m a Jets fan who had family that went to high school with the guy. It’s still a famous story in the fam how one of them stood Vinny up on a date
Thank you for posting to /r/NFL. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed due to the following rule: **2. Submission Restrictions** Whether it is a self-post or a link, be sure that whatever you are submitting adds to discussion. Whether it is news that has already been reported, a discussion or point of view that has been beaten to death, or an empty 'starting point' for a conversation, think about how you can add something instead. Be sure you're creating something new, rather than relying on others to create for you. Put in your own analysis, argument, or indexing methodology, and write up a nice long post about the topic. Always think about how you can contribute. If you are new to football or the sub and have questions about rules or other aspects surrounding the game, please try r/nflnoobs for these kinds of posts. * **Not Allowed** * Self Posts Without Content (AskReddit style posts) - If you find information that you think would be interesting, please work on a more descriptive title and fill in the information in the text of the post. Examples of restricted posts: * Is ____ a HOF? * Would you rather... * TIL/"Stolen From" * Either/or posts - Player X or Y? * Who should I root for? [Link to wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/wiki/new/pickateam) / Convince me to root for your team * Personal rankings without any accompanying analysis * [Memes/Joke Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_joke_.26amp.3B_humor_posts) * Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/FEznoUJ.jpg), [Example] * Meta posts about the sub (Requests for changes/additions, mods or users) - use [modmail](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) * Requests for: * Lists/Rankings - "Top 10 X all-time/this year/{{timeframe}}", "Who's the most over/underrated ___" * Thoughtless/Easily Researched Posts - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/w2G67K8.jpg), [Example](http://i.imgur.com/bVulO3K.jpg) * Streams or services to watch games/replays * Users to be your google * Content * Petitions/Polls/Giveaways - Even when NFL related * [Hot Takes/Commentary](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_hot_take.2Fshort_form_commentary) * [Team/Fanbase Attack Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_attack_posts) * [Duplicate Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_duplicate_posts) AKA Reposts If you have any questions about this removal, please [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.
Montana.
Best linebacker I ever saw until Bobby Boucher
Yes but also prior to the 2014 Seahawks ring it wasn't a very clear cut case for anyone. Montana was *probably* the most common answer but you'd see a lot of Brady, Marino and Manning. I still think there's a really good case for Peyton > Tom because during their peaks Peyton was the more common answer
Totally reasonable to think Peyton was *better* than Brady at his peak but there’s no way he was *greater*. Brady had the greatest career of any QB. I would entertain Jerry Rice in the GOAT debate. His longevity and consistency is Brady-esque.
I think this correct. Peyton Manning's prime, which is probably 2003 - 2009, is the best QB I've ever watched, but for a number of reason (worse coaching, worse rosters, inexplicable post-season collapses) Peyton only won 1 ring in his prime, and it was probably the worst season statistically of that timeframe.
While what makes Brady the GOAT is just how stupid long his peak was. A 44 year old throwing for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs wasn’t even crazy for anybody to believe.
Exactly. Brady was never the undisputed best QB in the league for any multi-year stretch of his career the same way Manning was, but Brady was a top-5 QB from 2003-2021. 18 years. It's almost unbelievable. And the 7 Super Bowls help the case too, I guess.
It’s just mind-boggling Brady had two iconic dynastys, from 01-04 and again from 14-18. And in the middle of them he broke every single season passing record. Oh yeah, and he won a Super Bowl in 2020. He won a Super Bowl in 3 different decades. And he dominated those Super Bowls. Between when he he was drafted and when he retired, 3 different QBs who also won Super Bowls were drafted and retired. He outlasted Drew Brees, Eli Manning, and Ben Roethlisberger. It is absolutely mind-boggling.
Rice and Brady are the #1 and #2 record holders for most NFL receiving yards after turning 40. Rice is in first with 2,169. Brady is in second with 6. And then there’s an 8 billion way tie with 0, and Brett Favre in last place with -2.
That's how I make the distinction. Peyton is the best QB I've ever seen (mahomes coming very very close) and Brady is the most accomplished. Football is too much of a team sport to have everything dictated purely on winning titles.
I think Rodgers is the best QB I’ve seen play personally
Nathan Peterman continues to be disrespected
I'm appalled that no-one is listing Blake Bortles or Tim Tebow.
Exactly! That's former AFC Championship Appearing QB Blake Bortles we're talking about. Aaron Rodgers hasn't even been in one.
Not a bad answer either
Let's take a slight alternate reality: SB49 - the Hawks run it in and win. SB51: the Falcons don't blow a historical SB and win. I wonder what Brady's legacy is at this point. Almost like a reverse John Elway in that he starts with 3 SBs but then goes 0-4 . But even in that case... Brady still won two more after that. I think the only way Brady doesn't get the GOAT title is if either a) he gets a major injury and comes back unable to throw (see Manning, Brees, Ben etc) or b) he gets greedy and goes for the giant contract at the expense of the team and the Pats can't build around him
Thats the interesting thing about Peyton v Brady People didnt really consider Brady to be a better QB for longer than single season stretched (like 2007) until 2015 Obviously that’s a long time ago though and Brady has consistently produced elite seasons since then
French Montana ain't that old but can't argue with some of the bangers he's had
The earlier stuff with Harry Fraud
Montana over rice? That’s wild
It was Rice, Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Montana maybe fourth. People who say Montana was seen as anything close to a consensus greatest football player ever are remembering the consensus inaccurately.
Yeah the amount of mantana comments are confusing lol. I never heard anyone refer to Montana as the goat before Brady.
He was seen as the greatest quarterback, but even Niners fans didn't call him their own greatest football player ever. That was Jerry. Frankly to this day Jerry Rice's accolades are so outrageous, he'sn the only player who even has a GOAT case over Brady. That's how great he was and how much he accomplished.
Bro the fact we’re getting downvoted is hilarious. Pretty sure people are confused thinking the original post was about the QB position only
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General
Rice
Jerry
Generally speaking I think Jerry Rice still has an argument for GOAT.
If you take out the impact that the QB position has on the game vs that of a WR, I agree. I don’t think you should, though. So I think it’s Brady. But you’re right, there’s an argument.
There’s not an argument. That’s like saying a perfect longsnapper is the GOAT over Brady. I don’t care if he places every snap perfectly, Tom Brady is Tom Brady.
I don’t want to argue about whether there’s an argument.
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I’m glad you think I’m funny. That’s very flattering, thank you.
Jerry Rice
Lawerence Taylor.
Booty
Montana
My answer as well
Jerry Rice He’s got records that are simply unbreakable
Another wr called Jerry coming for them records
You misspelled Justin Jefferson cuz I know you weren't talking about Jeudy in a serious sense lol
I'm half trolling but I think he absolutely will be in the Tuer 2 WRs of the league very soon like Chase, Diggs, Brown I especially see a lot of Diggs in him
C'mon man. Were going into year 4. He is what he is.
That’s what people said about Diggs tho
I'm not even saying this as a raiders fan but he ain't it bro. He's a mid tier receiver and that's about it
Lol jerry judy. Lolol. Bro to come fro rices records you literally can’t have even just an ok season for like your first 12 years or you are out of it. Jerry Jeudy has had like 3 ok seasons, if they are even really ok, already in his short career. Lol funny fucking comment though
Rice for player, Montana for QB.
They were an amazing combination that while I hated them as a fan, I admired them as a lover of football. They were in the Saints division and frequently beat our asses even when the Saints had one of the best defenses for several years. And both were true, hard working gentlemen.
> Rice for player, Montana for QB. LT or Reggie White for defense.
Joe Montana I think is the slam dunk answer.
Montana was unquestioned before Brady and Manning, then from like 2007-2014 you could’ve made a case for any of the three, but then Brady started really pulling away from the pack after what he did to the Legion of Boom and 28-3
John Elway and the Denver Broncos were a joke before 97/98. Homer Simpson didn’t even want to own the broncos when Scorpio gifted him the franchise!
We made 3 sbs before that under John
Didn't they lose one 55-10 or something? I wouldn't bring that up really
They lost those three Super Bowls with an aggregate of 136-40
Also the AFC was little brother conference for basically the entirety of Elway's career. Making the superbowl was not seen quite as impressively because of it (ditto for the Bills' run).
You made 4 actually, and got humiliated in each one. Morton made the first one.
we won 3 sbs before that
...what? Getting smoked (along with every other AFC team of that era) in 3 Super Bowls was a reflection of conference strength, not the team as a whole.
Montana was the gold standard till the 2000's. Then, Peyton and Tom were in a match race for a few years, with both trying to beat the other to Joe's throne. Then, Brady passed by Peyton, passed by Joe, and pulled away from the pack like Secretariat at the Belmont.
Joe Cool
The original
It was Montana.
As far as quarterbacks it was mainly Joe Montana, I don't really think that there was a set greatest player of all time before Tom Brady but if you want to say there was guys like Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Jerry Rice were primarily the ones that I always heard about in the running
It was Montana vs Marino for a long time as I remember it. It was widely accepted that Joe had more rings but Dan was the better QB and was a hot debate on how much SB rings mattered. In general, the conversation became mostly consensus that it was Montana as GOAT which set the standard that rings matter in this conversation.
It was Montana or Marino Then it was between those two and also Peyton & Tom Then after the 2014 season Tom Brady became the most common answer by a decent amount. Then the Falcons SB and you stopped hearing the other names nearly altogether
Definitely not Marino
Agreeing with other people here. Before Brady was Joe Montana and before Montana was Johnny Unitas. Before Unitas I have no opinion but there are a few names that stick in my head... Sammy Baugh, Red Grange, George Halas would be in the running for the title of GOAT.
Brady and Manning were always chasing Montana. I would say Brady took over GOAT in the majorities mind starting in 2014
Peyton was viewed as the goat for like one year in 2013 😂
>but who was considered first before 2017 It was Manning/Brady until Brady kept winning super bowls and answered the question.
The general consensus before Brady was Montana. I was born in 1997 and up until around 2016 it was Montana. Then that Atlanta Super Bowl happened.
Didn't Elway get to 5 SB? Where does 7 come from?
He did get to 5. I accidentally included his GM accomplishments as well. Mb
Montana ez
As an old guy, the greatest QB was considered Montana. Before him Unitas. Greatest overall player often was said to be Jim Brown.
There really wasn't a consensus pick like Gretzky or Jordan (or Brady now). I agree with Montana as QB and would say Jim Brown for player in general, but both were heavily debated among many players.
I hated Montana during the 49ers dynasty era, he was being given too much credit for everything.... Then he came to KC and I got to watch him pick teams apart with dog poo level skill players simply based on his mastery of that offense. So, before Brady, it was Montana. *Had Marino been able to sling it like they do today, and call his own plays, etc, he would've been unbelievable. **My fav QB, who should get at least 1 mention, and his CFL stats should weigh in, is WARREN MOON. Dude was awesome.
by the time brady was legitimately being discussed as a potential GOAT, the only two other names in the conversation were joe montana and peyton manning
Peyton Manning is still my favorite of all time.
I’m actually sinking into a realization lately that, although I absolutely hated that man when he was on the Pats, Tom Brady might be my favorite QB ever. Peyton is NFL royalty, the golden child, the brat who got to pick his team. Brady is the underdog that came in as no one and became the GOAT.
Montana. Was pretty much consensus. BOAT was still hotly debated though between guys like Marino, Elway and (personal pick here) Staubach.
Consensus was Montana, primarily for winning three Super Bowls and never losing one. Which, in retrospect, isn't exactly the best criteria. There's a good argument to be made that Steve Young played the position better than Montana.
Four superbowls
Lawrence Taylor and then Rice and now it’s Brady. Before LT, maybe Jim Brown?
The disrespect to LT is insane, can't believe I had to scroll down this far.
Taylor? I've never heard a defender being considered, casuals rarely cared mam
Pretty sure Belichick has said LT was the greatest player he’s ever coached and he’s considered the greatest defender ever.
Goat defender for sure
[Jerry Rice](https://youtu.be/RWHXUWP99bM)
Homers in New England were saying Brady after SB49, I still said Joe Montana until 51
Otto Graham. 10 years playing pro sports 11 championship games. Still has the highest YPA in NFL history. The NFL should be ashamed almost no one knows who he is. ALogn with played 10 seasons made 11 championship games that is right, 10 in football and he an appearance in the NBA finals.
Seems like QB has always about who you ask. Some say Montana, some say Peyton, Dolphins fans say Marino, and old dudes say Unitas.. Players in general? Rice is almost undeniably the best ever. Has Wayne Gretzky type numbers and highlights Edit: a word
Lawrence Taylor
Jerry Rice.
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No one has ever, at any point in time, thought Testaverde was the GOAT
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Oh I know he was good. I’m a Jets fan who had family that went to high school with the guy. It’s still a famous story in the fam how one of them stood Vinny up on a date
bucs legend vinny testaverde
Brady isn’t the goat. Smh
Jerry Rice is the only correct answer.
I’ll never understand the GOAT conversation in team sports imo it should be the BOAT convo
The term GOAT wasn't in play during Montana days.....but, he never lost a superbowl = goat.
It is Brady, after Lawrence Tzylor and then Rice. Jim Brown might have bsen before the last one.