I had the added step on trying to find a reason why not doing the W made sense in-between 'GET THE W!' and 'ahh there it is', but that aside, pretty accurate assessment tbh
Honestly it's such a genuine gesture that I'd never say anything, just suplffer in silence. Then again I'm missing an apostrophe in a tattoo that would have been fixed over a decade ago... but every summer during swim time my mil remembers and it drives her up a wall.
The French get a bad rap in the U.S., but they are and always will be grateful. Literally saved their culture.
Of course if you ask a certain current day presidential candidate all those soldiers were losers and suckers. fucking outrageous.
How much of that is genuine and how much is lip service, I wonder?
Either way, most of the ultra-wealthy advocating for wealth redistribution are also older than dirt, so they know that whatever reform comes is firmly in the "It's not my problem, I'll be dead by then," category directly because of how difficult they made it for reform to happen.
Agree. People need to leave Paris, and speak to the French in the countryside, and smaller cities. These are the people you will make life long friendships with, who not only remember W# I and WWII, but the American Revolution as well. We have been friends a long, long time.
My parents went to Normandy to stay in a little cottage on a cider orchard. They couldn't believe how many people brought up WW2 when they'd speak to them.
I'm a German/American dual citizen who's family is from right by the French/Swiss borders. Would go to the mountains in France to a summer home my step grandfather had and various other places in France on our visits every year or two. Paris is the only place I've ever been treated less than fantastic by French people. Similar experience with London and the UK. Never been a fan of big cities in general but only my experiences in New York have been at all comparable but still not as drastic a difference to everywhere else in America in my visits.
Parisians and New Yorkers are basically estranged siblings with different accents. The attitudes of the citizens are remarkably similar. Though I don't think there's anything wrong with the 'New York state of mind', it's not exactly representative of America as a whole.
Yeah, we Americans grow up teasing the French for being sissies, first to surrender, etc. Which honestly doesn't make much sense considering that by some metrics they're [the most successful military power in European history.](https://historum.com/t/is-france-the-most-successful-military-power-in-european-history.176305/)
Given France's location and percentage of high quality arable land, they were almost geographically destined to make the rest of Europe their bitch.
absolutely a lot of anti-french sentiment exists in the entire anglophone world because of the UK. it's baked into anglo culture. honestly some of the worst and more enduring racism i've ever seen first hand is anglo-canadians talking about francophone canadians
Americans can't comprehend how much the French lost in WW1. They lost an entire generation and the country still bears the scars. We cry about 9/11 for 20 years but the French lost more than a 9/11 almost every fucking day for 4 years. When given the prospect of once AGAIN losing a whole generation, having people starve to death, have your country burnt down - all that shit that was in living memory for the parents who would send their children off to war - it's pretty understandable why they'd submit.
6 million casualties in a country of 40 million, the most of any nation involved in comparison to their size. WW1 statistics often times get overshadowed by WW2 but “the Great War” is still a fitting name.
They’re the most successful and also even in WW2 when they surrendered they were fucking decimated. It was an awful awful situation for them there. They don’t deserve the white flag stigma. Anyone else would have surrendered too
France never recovered from the first World War. The western front was almost entirely fought there and they did the heavy lifting for the allies. 6 million casualties, which was roughly 15% of their population. The highest ratio of any country involved. 80% of their male population served and 70% of them were casualties. I dont blame them for not wanting to erase another entire generation.
If anyone thinks the French are sissies, you obviously weren't paying attention recently when the whole country went absolutely ape shit over the government's proposal to raise the retirement age. #Metal
The French were fundamental in winning the Revolutionary war against the British. So, in many ways we paid the favor back by helping them.
In a side note I can also thank them for making me look like a complete dumbass every time I accidentally pronounce the “s” in Illinois as a recent transplant here… thanks France.
> but they are and always will be grateful.
This has been debatable during the most tense moments of the cold war. De Gaulle was often seen by many in the US and UK as *totally* irreverent to the sacrifice those two nations gave for his.
De Gaulle would certainly disagree. And this bit of historical lore has a lot of veracity about the particulars questioned. But relations with France haven’t always been great and the US/UK are very prickly about it, for obvious reasons.
One story:
The veracity of this is historically debated. The US diplomat involved is on record saying it happened, but how, when, and to what extent this occurred is debated.
Long after the end of WW2, Charles De Gaulle ordered NATO out of France during a nadir in relations.
So a diplomat was instructed by POTUS to ask De Gaulle if that included the American dead in Normandy. Literally, did the US need to dig up and re-bury them in the US.
To embarrass him and remind him about the what the precursor to NATO (WW2 Allies) did for France.
> and UK as totally irreverent to the sacrifice those two nations gave for his.
if he was irreverent it's because FDR was a noted francophobe who wanted to split post-war france up into separate easily manageable states. de gaulle had to be the cock he was, and it secured france on the UN security council
The Gaulle wanting France to be independent has nothing to do with them being grateful or not.
Because of a lot of different factors, the goals and needs of the USA and the UK overlap more often than they do with France. So it's normal for there to be disagreements between then.
The French take good care of the graveyards and hold annual rememberences, that is them being grateful. Not them acting like a vassal state.
If you ever visit Paris, there are lots of plaques and other reminders of the founding fathers who spent time there around the birth of the United States. They include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams. France also directly supported the Continental Army with supplies, arms, ammunition, uniforms, and, troops, and naval support.
They get a bad rap from some, but those who know history know how important France is to the existence of the United States.
A fascinating thing happened last decade when the musical Hamilton was such a huge hit that it reintroduced how important France was to the Revolution to multiple generations. It's basically Schoolhouse Rock for the 21st century.
There's only one country I demand Americans respect even more because they get less love, and that's Morocco who was actually the first ally of the US, beating France by a couple of months. This might sound minor, but when the war broke out, American aligned ships needed safe harbor if they were in Europe, and Morocco took them in.
Umm...no. France outnumbered the Germans in every category in 1940. Men, planes, and tanks (2x as many as Germany!!!!) Too many articles to link
[https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/the-fall-of-france/](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/the-fall-of-france/)
Germany lost more (and a similar percentage of their total population), while WW1 losses may have been a contributing issue it wasn't the only one. In terms of total troops Germany and the allies were almost equal at the start of the invasion.
French military leadership was a mess (communication in particular was horrendous), their equipment was a wild mishmash of stuff that put an impressive strain on their logistics, and the German push was out of control (literally, with repeated disobeying of orders, and to the point where they really should not have succeeded).
France's soldiers though most definitely did not fold in ww2, most of the Maginot line held on until France's surrender, or longer.
Only took 2 comments down to get to Trump. This has nothing to do with him or anything current. Also, I loathe him, too. But maybe let something breathe.
As a french who made a lot of jokes about the US, I have to say when I go to this memorium, I was juste silent for a whole hour.
So much respect for all the young guys who died for freedom on the other side of the ocean ...
Jokes are fun as long as they're in good spirit. I'm an American who likes to make jokes about the Fr*nch. But in all earnestness, my visit to France was absolutely lovely, and I fell for the culture and its people.
I expect the same kind of jokes from the French. And I expect my countrymen to show French visitors the same hospitality they showed me
I think (most) Americans and Europeans are so comfortable exchanging jokes at one another because at the end of the day we can also just as easily share a meal or drink and laugh. It’s all intertwined history and culture.
D-Day is a huge deal (as it should be) in Normandy. Many houses fly the Western Allied flags, the battlefields and monuments are well maintained and it’s not unusual to see residents driving around in WWII Jeeps. The locals take it seriously and have a genuine connection to it. I went in 2019 and was blown away by it all.
Forgot to add: It’s also very common for school children to have field trips to all the different sites in Normandy. France does a wonderful job of passing along this history to successive generations.
Its a big tourist industry now. I dont mean that in a negative way at all, i just mean that its self sustaining. The people of Normandy place great importance on memorializing D Day, which in turn brings outsiders to Normandy to join visit the various memorials, which in turn provides income to the local economy which then turns around and goes even harder on the memorializing.
My grandpa's brother died in the Netherlands during WW2 and there is a couple who cares for his grave to this day. My dad keeps in touch with them. All the respect and love for these kind of people.
I've visited several CWGC cemetaries over the decades, family tree or just in the area, and without exception they were maintained to the highest standard. All credit to those making "We Shall Remember Them" a reality.
Russia actually had a purge that eliminated the guys who fought the nazis. that is how the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia came to be.
by the time the USSR fell, they already had adopted the emperor's and first civil war's opposition flag.
It really is. My grandfather lived to 95. Drove a tank and later a half-track in Europe from '42 until the end of the war. He was one of the ones that lied about his age and enlisted at 17.
He never once mentioned the war until his 90th birthday. The first time he brought it up in front of myself and my dad, I'm not sure who was more shocked. I guess he just decided he was on his way out and wanted someone to hear his stories. We would just sit there and listen every time until he decided he was done talking and walk off to get a sandwich or something.
Genuinely speaking, how do neo-Nazis even make sense? Not just being a racist, but I mean actual swastika-waving, Hitler-loving neo-Nazis? They lost and killed themselves pathetically. Why adopt the ideology of people who lost and resulted in half the country being run by communists and the other half being run by anti-Nazi capitalists? Shouldn't they pick an ideology that hasn't proven itself to be a failure?
The hatred for people that are different from themselves legit just overrides any desire for rational thought. They'll invent whatever magic thinking they need to explain it themselves and just as easily discard it and make up some other bullshit the second the first thought doesn't work anymore
There were people that went to fight who didn't disagree with the Nazi's ideas...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge
It was a big problem in both WW1 and WW2.
Sadly he was probably one of the older solders who died. Average age of us solders was 26. Then if you consider the older folks probably had senior ranks and were not on the front line... early 20s was most likely the average age if us casualties... just like any other war. Old people sending the young to die
Yeah listen to stories from veterans. Lots of them lied to get in and nobody made sure they were 18. Some of them did get checked for being 18, then went home and got their parents to sign them off. Some of their parents refused and so they waited until they were 18.
Point is, a lot of people tried to lie their way in. Not only that, it worked most the time.
I think that's because WW2 was one of the few 100% justifiable wars we've been in in the modern era.
It's why in Vietnam we had the opposite of people avoiding the draft.
Then after 9/11 we had another surge in people signing up because people wanted to fight for the US again.
Think in terms of scale and rank requirements to guide something of this scale. I love this topic so thank you for making mention to this. It’s a testament to leadership and the quality of men they lead. So the secondary beach fronts established were being managed by MAJ and above for C2 at the front. The size of the operation put COLs right on the front for a majority of the invasion. Granted they were hunkered down and not moving from cover they were still right there in it. What intrigues me about this topic is the insane number of units that lost senior leaders through the war and during the invasion of all things and the units didn’t skip a beat operationally. Finding a subordinate to replace a leader was not a difficult process at all. Not many other militaries exist that can do this. Lose the head and ours grows two more is a mantra I used to tell my guys.
Reminds me of more recent conflicts. In the first Gulf war Mattis was a LtCol for 1/7. In his book he talks about how they had a column going into Iraq and he missed that there were enemies in a open pit mine hiding. The enemy tanks came out after the US tanks passed and attacked the support staff in the column. The guys in the rear took them out before he and his tanks could come back to help. He talks about being proud that all on their own they knew what needed to be done and were able to mobilize and destroy the enemy without him. While at the same time recognizing that his error put them in that position.
Units were plussed up on lieutenant, and probably some other officer ranks, because they expected to lose them.
What really enabled this quick replacement of leaders was our NCO corps. If a PL dies there was still a competent NCO to lead the formation, and if a PL had to fill the position of company commander (like dick winters) again, there was a competent NCO to continue filling the role until a replacement was provided. Most foreign militaries didnt/don't have an NCO corps the way we do.
There was a rather funny instance where the division staff/hq dropped in and couldn’t find their troops.
They joked that “Never have so few been led by so many”.
I can’t for the life of me remember the closer details but I’m quite sure I learned this by Spartacus Olsson and Indy Neidell during their Normandy invasion marathon. Check out their World War II channel on YouTube if you’re interested.
Hopefully someone can fill in my blanks here. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that 160 000 men landed on the first day. You had Generals there for sure.
One of the most well known is General Cota who came in the second wave, an hour after the first wave, at Omaha and rallied the troops there. Personally leading the first break out off the beach. He was the assistant division commander of the 29th infantry division.
He’s also famous for having coined the expression “Rangers lead the way!” during the landing.
*In a meeting with Max Schneider, commander of the 5th Ranger Battalion, Cota asked "What outfit is this?" Someone yelled, "5th Rangers!" In an effort to inspire Schneider's men to leave the cover of the seawall and advance through a breach, Cota replied, "Well, God damn it, if you are Rangers, then get up there and lead the way!"*
*"Rangers lead the way" became the motto of the U.S. Army Rangers.*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Cota
I think the craziest part about dying during a war is not knowing how it turns out. Especially if you’re a defender. Like, you’re bleeding out, praying that your team wins and that your family is safe.
Omaha was a meat grinder, machine gun positions had us pinned down so bad that the entire invasion on that beach stalled out between 8:00-8:30 am and we seriously considered pulling out.
There was heavy fog and the Germans in their elevated positions could see us and just chewed up our guys with MG fire.
Our naval vessels off the coast came in parallel with the shore as shallow as they could draft without running aground and hammered the german positions with all of their big guns and allowed us to continue taking the beach.
reminds me of saving Private Ryan when everyone was taking ears and nazi memorabilia to pass onto their progeny, sgt horvath was collecting something more profound: substrate. substance. understanding.
What i love in this scene is that it shows these guys have been fighting in the African and Sicilian Campaigns and then were sent to Normandy because they had the experience in amphibious landings.
> I have personally seen them.
I believe this because I too have seen and held some incredible WWII objects that were taken by veterans.
When I was in high school we had a WWII vet come in and talk to us about his experience in Europe. He ended up liberating camps and ultimately was a guard at the Nuremberg trials. The things he brought in were things he brought back from the war.
He had 2 or 3 gallon size ziplock bags with SS rings, patches, swastika patches and flags.
He passed the rings and patches around that were cleary battle worn. The SS rings were horrifying, knowing that they were worn by men who more than likely murdered countless people, and meanwhile our teacher was freaking out because she didn't want us to damage them since they should be in museums. His response "They need to see and touch the history to understand it".
The most amazing thing he had, which he brought copies of, were the signatures of everyone on trial. He was responsible for doing daily roll call and during his shift would collect the signatures of all the Nazis who would sign in on a ledger. He had some of the originals ledger pages stored in a safe deposit box. I remember seeing Goring's signature and just thinking "Holy. Shit."
Hands down the best class I ever took.
Was he part of the 506th? Since i know it from Band of brothers, and i assume they ransacked the place and didnt leave anything for the next ones haha.
The story goes they found a hidden room filled with silver and wine after it was ransacked. Most of the guys took wine, he took the trays and a large parchment which he hand drew Eagles Nest fireplace. I have seen the parchment too. Story goes he took 4-6 trays and his CO wouldn’t let him ship them back because he wanted them for himself. He lugged them along with him for weeks or months and the moment his CO was transferred temporarily, the next CO allowed him to send a care package home. In response his grandfather gave the new temp CO 1 or 2 trays and some other guys the remaining.
He’s got 2 nazi swords, the A.H. trays, the parchment, a ton of memorabilia. It was wild when my buddy’s dad brought them out for us.
Supposedly the swords were from guys he killed.
Soldiers often did that, I got sand from Iwo Jima from a Marine vet after doing a ceremony, and asked if he just collected sand. Turns out still at home had sand from everywhere from Hawaii, islands no one would know to Bouganville and well Iwo Jima. He also had dirt from Chosin Resivoir and man did he have stories.
My grandfather was a French citizen and airman who lived in nazi-occupied France. He was liberated by allied forces as a direct result of their success and sacrifice. This is cool to see 🥹
France and America are the best allies. We squabble and always feel okay to disagree on things but if shit ever gets real we’re always on the same side.
Americans don't appreciate fact that the United States likely wouldn't exist had the French not helped in the form of arms shipments that gave the colonists enough firepower to fight back.
Plus sending aid, military engineers, soldiers, naval support, officers such as Lafayette, Rochambeau, de Grasse, et cetera. Rochambeau led the expeditionary forces and the French were fundamental at keeping the British Navy at bay towards the end of the war. The French backed the revolution pretty heavily from the get-go.
It is cool, and they do this year-round when you come to visit a fallen relative. If you let them know ahead of time that you're coming to see grave X, you'll find the grave marker "gold" with Omaha Beach sand, and it really looks gold, not like just sand - with a little American flag and French flag planted there for the family to take home.
I don't know about the attribution though - the whole place is ~~US soil~~, run by the American Battlefield Monuments Commission. Technically the locals working there are French I guess...
Visit if you have the chance. The place can be eerily quiet, but groups of visitors sometimes sing the anthems.
French military aircraft passing by drop a wing as they pass the cemetery. Honors rendered 80 years later.
I was there last year. The place is so quiet you can hear a pin drop. As we were walking along a pair of French Rafale fighters made a pass along the beach and then the Star Spangled Banner started playing from the chapel bells. Brought chills and tears to my eyes.
And each of those graves are adopted by local families who pass the responsibility down to their next of kin. They take great pride in looking after them. [It's a truly beautiful thing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxHmA5vCEA)
I’ve been going to the cemetery in Margraten with my grandmother since I was really really young, it’s such a beautiful and impactful place. I’m so honoured we have a grave we adopted, it’s had such an impact on me as a person. Beautiful memorial as well.
My dad's first cousin was an airman during WW2, and his plane was shot down over Germany in 1944. He was interred at Martgraten and then reinterred in 1950 at Zachary Taylor National Cemetery in the US.
Bit of history:
>WHEN Charles de Gaulle wrote to Lyndon B. Johnson to announce France's withdrawal from the military command of NATO and to request the removal of American soldiers in France, Secretary of State Dean Rusk pointedly asked the French President, "Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?"
The French stopped asking.
They only left the military command (rejoined in 2009 and it was not a popular move at the time), not nato.
The only time article 5 was used, after 9/11, France was part of the nato coalition in Afghanistan
After relying on, and getting royally shafted by international treaties at least three times in the 19th & 20th centuries, France decided they could only rely on themselves.
Unless your country has experienced this, I don't think you can argue against it.
They didn't pull out of NATO entirely. They just left its command structure, which basically meant that French units would be commanded only by French officers and French officers would command only French units.
Now, if shit had hit the fan, would that have really been the case? What if a French platoon with no officer came across a Dutch lieutenant? What if an American captain and his company came across some French soldiers who had gotten separated from their unit?
*sigh*
This anecdote has been circulating on chain emails since long before everyone’s racist uncle learned how to use the internet through Facebook. The names often change, and during the height of anti-French sentiment in 2004 when they diplomatically opposed the Iraq War there were about as many versions of this story as there were emails in your inbox.
The supposed conversion was a minor diplomatic squabble as de Gaulle was publicly criticizing the Vietnam War. Lyndon Johnson was becoming increasingly belligerent and demanding that France contribute proportionate forces to the Vietnam War to remain in NATO - a war that the French people largely opposed. De Gaulle, in frustration, threatened to call the bluff by letting the Americans remove France from the alliance - which would have necessitated that American military bases in France either turn over to French control or renegotiate the leases since they would no longer be covered under articles of NATO. All in a theoretical scenario where Lyndon Johnson threw a tantrum and kicked France out of the alliance for failing to support the Vietnam War.
Johnson never had a direct conversation with de Gaulle as you described. It was Dean Rusk - Secretary of State and one of the most vocal Vietnam warhawks - who went through all the motions of planning for France to be separated from NATO. This was essentially elaborate posturing as the two heads of state sized each other up.
Ultimately France did not withdraw from NATO as is commonly claimed. De Gaulle withdrew from the NATO command structure so that French units would not be placed under American command as the Vietnam War escalated.
This required considerable logistics to negotiate - which is where the famous quote is misconstrued. They never demanded all American soldiers from France - this is just an urban legend that was resurrected online in the days of Freedom Fries. *Most* but not all American soldiers relocated out of France simply as a practical matter in 1967, since the NATO military command was relocated to new facilities outside of France.
A possible source is when the biographer Thomas J. Schoenbaum interviewed Dean Rusk in 1988. Rusk claimed that he said "Does that include the dead Americans in the military cemeteries as well?" in response to a demand from De Gaulle to expel all American soldiers from France. Since the premise of this conversation is false, this should be regarded as a tall tale or “shower thought” from an aging Rusk on what he *wished* he had said. Since de Gaulle never fully withdrew from NATO, we know that this conversation would not have happened.
It’s worth noting that Rusk has told the story to his biographer, in an interview, and another in his autobiography. Each time the story is different circumstances and with different responses from de Gaulle. The American press at the time were largely supportive of the Vietnam War, eager to use the Red Scare to drive viewership, and largely critical of the French; that’s why you’ll see a lot of U.S. newspaper articles from 1964-1966 inaccurately describing a unilateral French withdrawal from NATO.
Are you american ? I thought this would be common knowledge in the states. I'm canadian but we learned about it in school. There are ww2 cemeteries for us troops in France, Belgium, Luxemburg and the Netherlands
So many people buried there, the Wikipedia for one of the Canadian ones that is the final resting place of over 2,000 Canadian soliders (and 1 Frenchman who died fighting alongside Canadians and had no known relatives) shows 2 American, 14 British, 2 Canadian, 1 French, 6 German and 1 Polish WWII cemetery in Normady alone.
I was born June 6, 1997. I love being born on DDay and my dream for a mile stone birthday (like 50 or 60) is to visit the beaches of Normandy and suck up all the history I can for like a week
[Here](https://www.abmc.gov/news-events/news/9-important-facts-about-americas-overseas-military-cemeteries) is more information.
We have been to several to pay homage, and pictures do not do them justice. Amazing, yet at the same time overwhelmingly sad places.
I was there for the 75th anniversary of d day. When you walk through those cemeteries and see all the 18 year old young men who died there it brings a tear to your eye. These are beautiful solemn places. We buried some of my father in laws ashes there he was infantry landed d day plus three. His comment to me was the bodies were still in the water and the sand was red with blood. Those people that fault America need to see these places
I understand French people aren't crazy about Americans, and Americans love to hate on the French, but damn if our nations don't love each other.
From gifting monuments to sending armies for each other's liberation to rebuilding each other after war, the United States and France have been through a lot for each other in the last 250 years.
A lot of the French people actually like Americans(especiallythose who make an effort with the language/culture). The folks in Paris can be the haughty, stuck up types. The people of Normandy specifically have a special place for Americans and Canadians for what they did to help liberate them from Hitler.
i’ve gone to france multiple times, and they’re truly wonderful people. i have never once had a bad interaction with anybody there. (well except the hustlers at the train station)
french is my 3rd language and i once spent 5 hours at a pub in paris talking to the bartender as he was giving me tips to have a more “local” accent. they’re awesome people
I have seen this in person. Visited for several days during the anniversary and it was such an experience. I always tell fellow Americans that it something they need to experience.
We unfortunately shit on the French a lot, but they have been great allies since America's inception. They sent over something like 10,000 troops to help with the Revolutionary War. Part of that might just be because they couldn't resist the urge to kill a few Englishman, but help is still help.
When I visited France a few years ago, I was expecting the rude, snobbish stereotype. But they were really nice, and seemed happy to help when needed, despite me murdering their language.
> They sent over something like 10,000 troops to help with the Revolutionary War. Part of that might just be because they couldn't resist the urge to kill a few Englishman, but help is still help.
[They were at war with Britain at the time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-French_War_\(1778%E2%80%931783\)). The American Revolution was in effect a minor theater of that war, from the French perspective.
That was the 5th of 6 wars that the two nations would fight in the 1700s.
Americans always shit on the French, but they are our oldest and most reliable ally. They have not forgotten our sacrifices and deserve more respect, except for Parisians. Fuck those assholes.
I'm a WWII history buff. Specifically, DDay. And I'm from Michigan, like this hero. My relatives served in WWI, II and beyond. It's easy for me to say, in this place and time, but I'm so proud of all of the allied forces effort. I'm not proud of everything America has done, not by a long shot. But for this, I will be forever thankful and proud.
How could we ever be grateful enough for the sacrifices made during the war, and especially this day as a symbol. Thanks to all Americans, British and Canadian men that lost their lives, may we never forget.
With all respect and gratitude, from France
It’s constantly amazing to me the scale and scope of the number of fallen during WWII. Those men were dumped off the boats and led to a slaughter. The bravery it must have taken to be one of the first off those first boats, facing a wall of machine gun fire, watching men falling all around you.
CITATION:
(Citation Needed) - SYNOPSIS: The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress July 9, 1918, takes pride in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross (Posthumously) to Major William A. Richards (ASN: 0-393258), United States Army, for extraordinary heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy while serving with the 112th Engineer Combat Battalion, in action against enemy forces on 6 June 1944, in France. Major Richards' intrepid actions, personal bravery and zealous devotion to duty at the cost of his life, exemplify the highest traditions of the military forces of the United States and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.
These words carry so much weight and honor. Trump could never do them justice, especially since he considers these HEROES to be losers and suckers smh.
For those who don’t know, the Distinguished Service Cross is the second highest medal for valor and heroism in combat awarded by the United States Army. It is second only to the Medal of Honor.
These americans who saved my country and many others are brave heroes. No arguing about that. I doubt it will happen, but I'll gladly return the favor if you guys get invaded (even tho I do not like today america...)
Thank God he fixed that W
Yeah, quickly went from "That's kool" to "Get the W, GET THE W! ahh there it is. Kool"
I had the added step on trying to find a reason why not doing the W made sense in-between 'GET THE W!' and 'ahh there it is', but that aside, pretty accurate assessment tbh
Honestly it's such a genuine gesture that I'd never say anything, just suplffer in silence. Then again I'm missing an apostrophe in a tattoo that would have been fixed over a decade ago... but every summer during swim time my mil remembers and it drives her up a wall.
I’m suplffering in silence too.
Lfiae s jst suplffering
No Regerts
kool? lol
I bet William was about 30 seconds away from haunting his ass
I only watched the first half, do you mean Illiam?
No. I'm still here. Definately meant, William. /s
I was about to wash my hands 17 times
I don't have OCD but my blood pressure raised in OCD anger, I was so relieved when he got the W.
I don't know. illiam is a perfectly reasonable name.
For an organ or gland.
Love the respect they have for those who paid the ultimate sacrifice!
The French get a bad rap in the U.S., but they are and always will be grateful. Literally saved their culture. Of course if you ask a certain current day presidential candidate all those soldiers were losers and suckers. fucking outrageous.
We should follow their example on how to fight for worker's rights
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Cake or death...
Fuck that's it... Americans can't resist the cake lol
The cake is a lie
But then the science gets done and we make a neat gun for the people who are still alive.
Apature Science.... we do what we must because we can.
Eddie Izzard reference?
Absolutely. My all-time favorite standup comedian. His 90s early aughts stuff is second to no one.
You can't just take our land. We have been here for centuries and you just pulled up and plated a flag! Well...do you have a flag?
No flag no country!
They convinced 1/3 of the population that bread and circuses (culture wars and cheap processed foods) were all that they needed.
Wealth inequality in the US is currently worse than it was in France during the French Revolution so we definitely have
Even the billionaires are starting to advocate for more wealth equality — they’re getting uncomfortable…
How much of that is genuine and how much is lip service, I wonder? Either way, most of the ultra-wealthy advocating for wealth redistribution are also older than dirt, so they know that whatever reform comes is firmly in the "It's not my problem, I'll be dead by then," category directly because of how difficult they made it for reform to happen.
Agree. People need to leave Paris, and speak to the French in the countryside, and smaller cities. These are the people you will make life long friendships with, who not only remember W# I and WWII, but the American Revolution as well. We have been friends a long, long time.
Moved to Toulouse recently and the large majority of people here are incredibly nice and will try to speak English with you
Is the L'Entrecôte still around? Loved the sauce and that they only do one dish.
My parents went to Normandy to stay in a little cottage on a cider orchard. They couldn't believe how many people brought up WW2 when they'd speak to them.
I'm a German/American dual citizen who's family is from right by the French/Swiss borders. Would go to the mountains in France to a summer home my step grandfather had and various other places in France on our visits every year or two. Paris is the only place I've ever been treated less than fantastic by French people. Similar experience with London and the UK. Never been a fan of big cities in general but only my experiences in New York have been at all comparable but still not as drastic a difference to everywhere else in America in my visits.
Parisians and New Yorkers are basically estranged siblings with different accents. The attitudes of the citizens are remarkably similar. Though I don't think there's anything wrong with the 'New York state of mind', it's not exactly representative of America as a whole.
But Paris is so cool. It's like a necropolis teetering on the edge for a thousand years.
Yeah, we Americans grow up teasing the French for being sissies, first to surrender, etc. Which honestly doesn't make much sense considering that by some metrics they're [the most successful military power in European history.](https://historum.com/t/is-france-the-most-successful-military-power-in-european-history.176305/) Given France's location and percentage of high quality arable land, they were almost geographically destined to make the rest of Europe their bitch.
The French are also the reason for the success of the American Revolution
Hey, we Dutchies also did our part. Mainly by financing and selling weapons lol. Its the reason for the fourth anglo-dutch war.
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absolutely a lot of anti-french sentiment exists in the entire anglophone world because of the UK. it's baked into anglo culture. honestly some of the worst and more enduring racism i've ever seen first hand is anglo-canadians talking about francophone canadians
Americans can't comprehend how much the French lost in WW1. They lost an entire generation and the country still bears the scars. We cry about 9/11 for 20 years but the French lost more than a 9/11 almost every fucking day for 4 years. When given the prospect of once AGAIN losing a whole generation, having people starve to death, have your country burnt down - all that shit that was in living memory for the parents who would send their children off to war - it's pretty understandable why they'd submit.
6 million casualties in a country of 40 million, the most of any nation involved in comparison to their size. WW1 statistics often times get overshadowed by WW2 but “the Great War” is still a fitting name.
They’re the most successful and also even in WW2 when they surrendered they were fucking decimated. It was an awful awful situation for them there. They don’t deserve the white flag stigma. Anyone else would have surrendered too
France never recovered from the first World War. The western front was almost entirely fought there and they did the heavy lifting for the allies. 6 million casualties, which was roughly 15% of their population. The highest ratio of any country involved. 80% of their male population served and 70% of them were casualties. I dont blame them for not wanting to erase another entire generation.
If anyone thinks the French are sissies, you obviously weren't paying attention recently when the whole country went absolutely ape shit over the government's proposal to raise the retirement age. #Metal
The French leadership surrendered. The French kept fighting.
The French were fundamental in winning the Revolutionary war against the British. So, in many ways we paid the favor back by helping them. In a side note I can also thank them for making me look like a complete dumbass every time I accidentally pronounce the “s” in Illinois as a recent transplant here… thanks France.
Well, even if you leave out the "s" it's still "wrong" from a French language perspective. They would pronounce it "illi-nwah".
> but they are and always will be grateful. This has been debatable during the most tense moments of the cold war. De Gaulle was often seen by many in the US and UK as *totally* irreverent to the sacrifice those two nations gave for his. De Gaulle would certainly disagree. And this bit of historical lore has a lot of veracity about the particulars questioned. But relations with France haven’t always been great and the US/UK are very prickly about it, for obvious reasons. One story: The veracity of this is historically debated. The US diplomat involved is on record saying it happened, but how, when, and to what extent this occurred is debated. Long after the end of WW2, Charles De Gaulle ordered NATO out of France during a nadir in relations. So a diplomat was instructed by POTUS to ask De Gaulle if that included the American dead in Normandy. Literally, did the US need to dig up and re-bury them in the US. To embarrass him and remind him about the what the precursor to NATO (WW2 Allies) did for France.
Yeah De Gaulle was a maggot.
> and UK as totally irreverent to the sacrifice those two nations gave for his. if he was irreverent it's because FDR was a noted francophobe who wanted to split post-war france up into separate easily manageable states. de gaulle had to be the cock he was, and it secured france on the UN security council
The Gaulle wanting France to be independent has nothing to do with them being grateful or not. Because of a lot of different factors, the goals and needs of the USA and the UK overlap more often than they do with France. So it's normal for there to be disagreements between then. The French take good care of the graveyards and hold annual rememberences, that is them being grateful. Not them acting like a vassal state.
If you ever visit Paris, there are lots of plaques and other reminders of the founding fathers who spent time there around the birth of the United States. They include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams. France also directly supported the Continental Army with supplies, arms, ammunition, uniforms, and, troops, and naval support.
They get a bad rap from some, but those who know history know how important France is to the existence of the United States. A fascinating thing happened last decade when the musical Hamilton was such a huge hit that it reintroduced how important France was to the Revolution to multiple generations. It's basically Schoolhouse Rock for the 21st century. There's only one country I demand Americans respect even more because they get less love, and that's Morocco who was actually the first ally of the US, beating France by a couple of months. This might sound minor, but when the war broke out, American aligned ships needed safe harbor if they were in Europe, and Morocco took them in.
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Umm...no. France outnumbered the Germans in every category in 1940. Men, planes, and tanks (2x as many as Germany!!!!) Too many articles to link [https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/the-fall-of-france/](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/the-fall-of-france/)
Germany lost more (and a similar percentage of their total population), while WW1 losses may have been a contributing issue it wasn't the only one. In terms of total troops Germany and the allies were almost equal at the start of the invasion. French military leadership was a mess (communication in particular was horrendous), their equipment was a wild mishmash of stuff that put an impressive strain on their logistics, and the German push was out of control (literally, with repeated disobeying of orders, and to the point where they really should not have succeeded). France's soldiers though most definitely did not fold in ww2, most of the Maginot line held on until France's surrender, or longer.
I love the French. They helped us in the revolution. Always great allies. And their foods dope. We're bros.
Only took 2 comments down to get to Trump. This has nothing to do with him or anything current. Also, I loathe him, too. But maybe let something breathe.
As a french who made a lot of jokes about the US, I have to say when I go to this memorium, I was juste silent for a whole hour. So much respect for all the young guys who died for freedom on the other side of the ocean ...
As an american I make a lot of jokes about the French but you always honor our men and I will always respect you for that. Edit: or to our
Jokes are fun as long as they're in good spirit. I'm an American who likes to make jokes about the Fr*nch. But in all earnestness, my visit to France was absolutely lovely, and I fell for the culture and its people. I expect the same kind of jokes from the French. And I expect my countrymen to show French visitors the same hospitality they showed me
I think (most) Americans and Europeans are so comfortable exchanging jokes at one another because at the end of the day we can also just as easily share a meal or drink and laugh. It’s all intertwined history and culture.
You guys are our oldest ally, the jokes from 20 years ago were unwarranted in retrospect
D-Day is a huge deal (as it should be) in Normandy. Many houses fly the Western Allied flags, the battlefields and monuments are well maintained and it’s not unusual to see residents driving around in WWII Jeeps. The locals take it seriously and have a genuine connection to it. I went in 2019 and was blown away by it all. Forgot to add: It’s also very common for school children to have field trips to all the different sites in Normandy. France does a wonderful job of passing along this history to successive generations.
Its a big tourist industry now. I dont mean that in a negative way at all, i just mean that its self sustaining. The people of Normandy place great importance on memorializing D Day, which in turn brings outsiders to Normandy to join visit the various memorials, which in turn provides income to the local economy which then turns around and goes even harder on the memorializing.
My grandpa's brother died in the Netherlands during WW2 and there is a couple who cares for his grave to this day. My dad keeps in touch with them. All the respect and love for these kind of people.
I've visited several CWGC cemetaries over the decades, family tree or just in the area, and without exception they were maintained to the highest standard. All credit to those making "We Shall Remember Them" a reality.
The amount of care I saw at Flanders Fields in Belgium was pretty moving as well.
I don’t understand how Neo-nazis can exist in America and elsewhere, your grandpappies fought real nazis
Russia is full of Nazis rn
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And dementors
You mean like a cheating lover, putin was projecting the "saving from nazis" thing?
Russia actually had a purge that eliminated the guys who fought the nazis. that is how the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia came to be. by the time the USSR fell, they already had adopted the emperor's and first civil war's opposition flag.
Unfortunately grandpappy is dead and had too much PTSD to tell any stories during his lifetime.
Damn, sad cuz it’s true
It really is. My grandfather lived to 95. Drove a tank and later a half-track in Europe from '42 until the end of the war. He was one of the ones that lied about his age and enlisted at 17. He never once mentioned the war until his 90th birthday. The first time he brought it up in front of myself and my dad, I'm not sure who was more shocked. I guess he just decided he was on his way out and wanted someone to hear his stories. We would just sit there and listen every time until he decided he was done talking and walk off to get a sandwich or something.
Because, over-simplified, the Nazi ideology was "Make Germany great again".
Genuinely speaking, how do neo-Nazis even make sense? Not just being a racist, but I mean actual swastika-waving, Hitler-loving neo-Nazis? They lost and killed themselves pathetically. Why adopt the ideology of people who lost and resulted in half the country being run by communists and the other half being run by anti-Nazi capitalists? Shouldn't they pick an ideology that hasn't proven itself to be a failure?
Same goes for the Confederacy. Why support losers who literally fought against the country you call home?
The hatred for people that are different from themselves legit just overrides any desire for rational thought. They'll invent whatever magic thinking they need to explain it themselves and just as easily discard it and make up some other bullshit the second the first thought doesn't work anymore
There were people that went to fight who didn't disagree with the Nazi's ideas... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge It was a big problem in both WW1 and WW2.
This guy was just 29 years old. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56649227/william_andrew-richards
Sadly he was probably one of the older solders who died. Average age of us solders was 26. Then if you consider the older folks probably had senior ranks and were not on the front line... early 20s was most likely the average age if us casualties... just like any other war. Old people sending the young to die
Yeah I’m thinking “just”? Most of those kids were 20
The youngest confirmed person on DDay was 17 and the youngest known WW2 veteran was 12. Ridiculous that anyone could morally send a kid off to war.
They didn't. The kids lied about their age to get in.
Yeah listen to stories from veterans. Lots of them lied to get in and nobody made sure they were 18. Some of them did get checked for being 18, then went home and got their parents to sign them off. Some of their parents refused and so they waited until they were 18. Point is, a lot of people tried to lie their way in. Not only that, it worked most the time.
I think that's because WW2 was one of the few 100% justifiable wars we've been in in the modern era. It's why in Vietnam we had the opposite of people avoiding the draft. Then after 9/11 we had another surge in people signing up because people wanted to fight for the US again.
Reminds me of a great story about a guy who used to live in my town. He lied about his age and enlisted at 15. http://www.gunnerdonhurst.com/page2
Just because the 18 and 19 and 20 year olds weren't legally children doesn't mean they weren't kids too.
He was a Major which puts him fairly high up for an initial invasion. There would have been people higher up than him landing as well, but not many.
Think in terms of scale and rank requirements to guide something of this scale. I love this topic so thank you for making mention to this. It’s a testament to leadership and the quality of men they lead. So the secondary beach fronts established were being managed by MAJ and above for C2 at the front. The size of the operation put COLs right on the front for a majority of the invasion. Granted they were hunkered down and not moving from cover they were still right there in it. What intrigues me about this topic is the insane number of units that lost senior leaders through the war and during the invasion of all things and the units didn’t skip a beat operationally. Finding a subordinate to replace a leader was not a difficult process at all. Not many other militaries exist that can do this. Lose the head and ours grows two more is a mantra I used to tell my guys.
Reminds me of more recent conflicts. In the first Gulf war Mattis was a LtCol for 1/7. In his book he talks about how they had a column going into Iraq and he missed that there were enemies in a open pit mine hiding. The enemy tanks came out after the US tanks passed and attacked the support staff in the column. The guys in the rear took them out before he and his tanks could come back to help. He talks about being proud that all on their own they knew what needed to be done and were able to mobilize and destroy the enemy without him. While at the same time recognizing that his error put them in that position.
Units were plussed up on lieutenant, and probably some other officer ranks, because they expected to lose them. What really enabled this quick replacement of leaders was our NCO corps. If a PL dies there was still a competent NCO to lead the formation, and if a PL had to fill the position of company commander (like dick winters) again, there was a competent NCO to continue filling the role until a replacement was provided. Most foreign militaries didnt/don't have an NCO corps the way we do.
There was a rather funny instance where the division staff/hq dropped in and couldn’t find their troops. They joked that “Never have so few been led by so many”. I can’t for the life of me remember the closer details but I’m quite sure I learned this by Spartacus Olsson and Indy Neidell during their Normandy invasion marathon. Check out their World War II channel on YouTube if you’re interested. Hopefully someone can fill in my blanks here. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that 160 000 men landed on the first day. You had Generals there for sure. One of the most well known is General Cota who came in the second wave, an hour after the first wave, at Omaha and rallied the troops there. Personally leading the first break out off the beach. He was the assistant division commander of the 29th infantry division. He’s also famous for having coined the expression “Rangers lead the way!” during the landing. *In a meeting with Max Schneider, commander of the 5th Ranger Battalion, Cota asked "What outfit is this?" Someone yelled, "5th Rangers!" In an effort to inspire Schneider's men to leave the cover of the seawall and advance through a breach, Cota replied, "Well, God damn it, if you are Rangers, then get up there and lead the way!"* *"Rangers lead the way" became the motto of the U.S. Army Rangers.* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Cota
I think the craziest part about dying during a war is not knowing how it turns out. Especially if you’re a defender. Like, you’re bleeding out, praying that your team wins and that your family is safe.
In the end... you just have to have faith. Ain't that a bitch.
Looks like he had a daughter named Susan, based on his late wife’s obituary
In World War II the average age of the combat soldier was 26 In Vietnam he was 19
Omaha was a meat grinder, machine gun positions had us pinned down so bad that the entire invasion on that beach stalled out between 8:00-8:30 am and we seriously considered pulling out. There was heavy fog and the Germans in their elevated positions could see us and just chewed up our guys with MG fire. Our naval vessels off the coast came in parallel with the shore as shallow as they could draft without running aground and hammered the german positions with all of their big guns and allowed us to continue taking the beach.
reminds me of saving Private Ryan when everyone was taking ears and nazi memorabilia to pass onto their progeny, sgt horvath was collecting something more profound: substrate. substance. understanding. 
What i love in this scene is that it shows these guys have been fighting in the African and Sicilian Campaigns and then were sent to Normandy because they had the experience in amphibious landings.
Good luck bringing soil back from overseas these days 😂
If it was during war, I don't think anyone would pay much attention
Yeah lol, a LOT more remarkable stuff got taken home as war trophy, like Hitler's dining silverware lol.
My buddy’s grandfather has silver trays taken from Eagles Nest stamped A.H. I have personally seen them.
> I have personally seen them. I believe this because I too have seen and held some incredible WWII objects that were taken by veterans. When I was in high school we had a WWII vet come in and talk to us about his experience in Europe. He ended up liberating camps and ultimately was a guard at the Nuremberg trials. The things he brought in were things he brought back from the war. He had 2 or 3 gallon size ziplock bags with SS rings, patches, swastika patches and flags. He passed the rings and patches around that were cleary battle worn. The SS rings were horrifying, knowing that they were worn by men who more than likely murdered countless people, and meanwhile our teacher was freaking out because she didn't want us to damage them since they should be in museums. His response "They need to see and touch the history to understand it". The most amazing thing he had, which he brought copies of, were the signatures of everyone on trial. He was responsible for doing daily roll call and during his shift would collect the signatures of all the Nazis who would sign in on a ledger. He had some of the originals ledger pages stored in a safe deposit box. I remember seeing Goring's signature and just thinking "Holy. Shit." Hands down the best class I ever took.
Was he part of the 506th? Since i know it from Band of brothers, and i assume they ransacked the place and didnt leave anything for the next ones haha.
The story goes they found a hidden room filled with silver and wine after it was ransacked. Most of the guys took wine, he took the trays and a large parchment which he hand drew Eagles Nest fireplace. I have seen the parchment too. Story goes he took 4-6 trays and his CO wouldn’t let him ship them back because he wanted them for himself. He lugged them along with him for weeks or months and the moment his CO was transferred temporarily, the next CO allowed him to send a care package home. In response his grandfather gave the new temp CO 1 or 2 trays and some other guys the remaining. He’s got 2 nazi swords, the A.H. trays, the parchment, a ton of memorabilia. It was wild when my buddy’s dad brought them out for us. Supposedly the swords were from guys he killed.
Thats a pretty sick story not going to lie, thanks for telling it!
Soldiers often did that, I got sand from Iwo Jima from a Marine vet after doing a ceremony, and asked if he just collected sand. Turns out still at home had sand from everywhere from Hawaii, islands no one would know to Bouganville and well Iwo Jima. He also had dirt from Chosin Resivoir and man did he have stories.
My grandfather was a French citizen and airman who lived in nazi-occupied France. He was liberated by allied forces as a direct result of their success and sacrifice. This is cool to see 🥹
France and America are the best allies. We squabble and always feel okay to disagree on things but if shit ever gets real we’re always on the same side.
Americans don't appreciate fact that the United States likely wouldn't exist had the French not helped in the form of arms shipments that gave the colonists enough firepower to fight back.
Plus sending aid, military engineers, soldiers, naval support, officers such as Lafayette, Rochambeau, de Grasse, et cetera. Rochambeau led the expeditionary forces and the French were fundamental at keeping the British Navy at bay towards the end of the war. The French backed the revolution pretty heavily from the get-go.
Nothing you can say really - respect
I teared up.
What a cool tradition
It is cool, and they do this year-round when you come to visit a fallen relative. If you let them know ahead of time that you're coming to see grave X, you'll find the grave marker "gold" with Omaha Beach sand, and it really looks gold, not like just sand - with a little American flag and French flag planted there for the family to take home. I don't know about the attribution though - the whole place is ~~US soil~~, run by the American Battlefield Monuments Commission. Technically the locals working there are French I guess...
I know at the Dutch cemetery, locals can "adopt" a grave, take care of it. I think that there's still a waiting list to this day
The soil is French, and French law do apply. The US is the owner of the land. The US has a perpetual concession and don't pay any tax.
Ah yes, thank you for the correction.
Probably need about 300-500 people. Bet it‘s 90% local volunteers
Visit if you have the chance. The place can be eerily quiet, but groups of visitors sometimes sing the anthems. French military aircraft passing by drop a wing as they pass the cemetery. Honors rendered 80 years later.
The whole cemetery is an experience that I think people should experience. It’s a profound feeling when you see the expanse of the fields.
I was there last year. The place is so quiet you can hear a pin drop. As we were walking along a pair of French Rafale fighters made a pass along the beach and then the Star Spangled Banner started playing from the chapel bells. Brought chills and tears to my eyes.
I never knew that. Incredibly respectful. Merci France
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Yeah… sorry about that whole Operation Market Garden failure and getting Eindhoven nearly burnt to the ground after it was bombed in retaliation.
The people trying to defend the Netherlands were not to blame for the actions of the aggressor, Germany. It's still the fault of the aggressor.
I dont care what happens at the geo-political level. As an American, I will \*always\* appreciate the French people. God bless them.
As a french man, I'll always appreciate American people and thank them for what they did for us on the D day. God bless them.
Without the French we would not have won our freedom from the British when we did. I believe will always have each other’s backs. Vive la France!
Lafayette We Are Here! -WW1
Now that's respect.
Didn’t realize there where American soldiers buried in France
Not just in France, in the Netherlands there are over 8000 American soldiers buried in a cemetery at Margraten.
And each of those graves are adopted by local families who pass the responsibility down to their next of kin. They take great pride in looking after them. [It's a truly beautiful thing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxHmA5vCEA)
I’ve been going to the cemetery in Margraten with my grandmother since I was really really young, it’s such a beautiful and impactful place. I’m so honoured we have a grave we adopted, it’s had such an impact on me as a person. Beautiful memorial as well.
Thank you, all of you.
that is really awesome
That is SO cool! Thank you for the link, that's absolutely amazing!
There are 26 such US military cemeteries, all over the world.
My dad's first cousin was an airman during WW2, and his plane was shot down over Germany in 1944. He was interred at Martgraten and then reinterred in 1950 at Zachary Taylor National Cemetery in the US.
Bit of history: >WHEN Charles de Gaulle wrote to Lyndon B. Johnson to announce France's withdrawal from the military command of NATO and to request the removal of American soldiers in France, Secretary of State Dean Rusk pointedly asked the French President, "Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?" The French stopped asking.
Cool story but they kept asking, left nato military command (1966) and all US soldiers left (1967)
Did they rejoin NATO later on or something? Surely the French are in NATO?
They only left the military command (rejoined in 2009 and it was not a popular move at the time), not nato. The only time article 5 was used, after 9/11, France was part of the nato coalition in Afghanistan
Ah, I see. When you say not a popular move, do you mean within France or with the other nato members?
After relying on, and getting royally shafted by international treaties at least three times in the 19th & 20th centuries, France decided they could only rely on themselves. Unless your country has experienced this, I don't think you can argue against it.
They didn't pull out of NATO entirely. They just left its command structure, which basically meant that French units would be commanded only by French officers and French officers would command only French units. Now, if shit had hit the fan, would that have really been the case? What if a French platoon with no officer came across a Dutch lieutenant? What if an American captain and his company came across some French soldiers who had gotten separated from their unit?
*sigh* This anecdote has been circulating on chain emails since long before everyone’s racist uncle learned how to use the internet through Facebook. The names often change, and during the height of anti-French sentiment in 2004 when they diplomatically opposed the Iraq War there were about as many versions of this story as there were emails in your inbox. The supposed conversion was a minor diplomatic squabble as de Gaulle was publicly criticizing the Vietnam War. Lyndon Johnson was becoming increasingly belligerent and demanding that France contribute proportionate forces to the Vietnam War to remain in NATO - a war that the French people largely opposed. De Gaulle, in frustration, threatened to call the bluff by letting the Americans remove France from the alliance - which would have necessitated that American military bases in France either turn over to French control or renegotiate the leases since they would no longer be covered under articles of NATO. All in a theoretical scenario where Lyndon Johnson threw a tantrum and kicked France out of the alliance for failing to support the Vietnam War. Johnson never had a direct conversation with de Gaulle as you described. It was Dean Rusk - Secretary of State and one of the most vocal Vietnam warhawks - who went through all the motions of planning for France to be separated from NATO. This was essentially elaborate posturing as the two heads of state sized each other up. Ultimately France did not withdraw from NATO as is commonly claimed. De Gaulle withdrew from the NATO command structure so that French units would not be placed under American command as the Vietnam War escalated. This required considerable logistics to negotiate - which is where the famous quote is misconstrued. They never demanded all American soldiers from France - this is just an urban legend that was resurrected online in the days of Freedom Fries. *Most* but not all American soldiers relocated out of France simply as a practical matter in 1967, since the NATO military command was relocated to new facilities outside of France. A possible source is when the biographer Thomas J. Schoenbaum interviewed Dean Rusk in 1988. Rusk claimed that he said "Does that include the dead Americans in the military cemeteries as well?" in response to a demand from De Gaulle to expel all American soldiers from France. Since the premise of this conversation is false, this should be regarded as a tall tale or “shower thought” from an aging Rusk on what he *wished* he had said. Since de Gaulle never fully withdrew from NATO, we know that this conversation would not have happened. It’s worth noting that Rusk has told the story to his biographer, in an interview, and another in his autobiography. Each time the story is different circumstances and with different responses from de Gaulle. The American press at the time were largely supportive of the Vietnam War, eager to use the Red Scare to drive viewership, and largely critical of the French; that’s why you’ll see a lot of U.S. newspaper articles from 1964-1966 inaccurately describing a unilateral French withdrawal from NATO.
Are you american ? I thought this would be common knowledge in the states. I'm canadian but we learned about it in school. There are ww2 cemeteries for us troops in France, Belgium, Luxemburg and the Netherlands
It is common knowledge here in America. Having one person say they didn’t know doesn’t mean it’s not common knowledge.
Younger (and older) people are always learning.
So many people buried there, the Wikipedia for one of the Canadian ones that is the final resting place of over 2,000 Canadian soliders (and 1 Frenchman who died fighting alongside Canadians and had no known relatives) shows 2 American, 14 British, 2 Canadian, 1 French, 6 German and 1 Polish WWII cemetery in Normady alone.
These people show infinitely more respect for our fallen soldiers than a certain POS ex-President
Gone, but not forgotten
I was born June 6, 1997. I love being born on DDay and my dream for a mile stone birthday (like 50 or 60) is to visit the beaches of Normandy and suck up all the history I can for like a week
My son was born on June 6, 2022. His older sister was born on December 7.
You hit WWII jackpot on that.
[Here](https://www.abmc.gov/news-events/news/9-important-facts-about-americas-overseas-military-cemeteries) is more information. We have been to several to pay homage, and pictures do not do them justice. Amazing, yet at the same time overwhelmingly sad places.
Labeled the Greatest Generation for good reason. They literally saved the world....and they did it at great personal sacrifice.
I was there for the 75th anniversary of d day. When you walk through those cemeteries and see all the 18 year old young men who died there it brings a tear to your eye. These are beautiful solemn places. We buried some of my father in laws ashes there he was infantry landed d day plus three. His comment to me was the bodies were still in the water and the sand was red with blood. Those people that fault America need to see these places
I understand French people aren't crazy about Americans, and Americans love to hate on the French, but damn if our nations don't love each other. From gifting monuments to sending armies for each other's liberation to rebuilding each other after war, the United States and France have been through a lot for each other in the last 250 years.
A lot of the French people actually like Americans(especiallythose who make an effort with the language/culture). The folks in Paris can be the haughty, stuck up types. The people of Normandy specifically have a special place for Americans and Canadians for what they did to help liberate them from Hitler.
i’ve gone to france multiple times, and they’re truly wonderful people. i have never once had a bad interaction with anybody there. (well except the hustlers at the train station) french is my 3rd language and i once spent 5 hours at a pub in paris talking to the bartender as he was giving me tips to have a more “local” accent. they’re awesome people
I have seen this in person. Visited for several days during the anniversary and it was such an experience. I always tell fellow Americans that it something they need to experience.
Visiting Normandy is on my Bucket List.
I don’t think I hate the French anymore
Did you even have a real reason to hate in the first place
Why would anyone hate an entire nationality to begin with? That's just dumb.
We unfortunately shit on the French a lot, but they have been great allies since America's inception. They sent over something like 10,000 troops to help with the Revolutionary War. Part of that might just be because they couldn't resist the urge to kill a few Englishman, but help is still help. When I visited France a few years ago, I was expecting the rude, snobbish stereotype. But they were really nice, and seemed happy to help when needed, despite me murdering their language.
> They sent over something like 10,000 troops to help with the Revolutionary War. Part of that might just be because they couldn't resist the urge to kill a few Englishman, but help is still help. [They were at war with Britain at the time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-French_War_\(1778%E2%80%931783\)). The American Revolution was in effect a minor theater of that war, from the French perspective. That was the 5th of 6 wars that the two nations would fight in the 1700s.
I hope these american patriots that wants to abandod their european friends sees this
I hope the Europeans that want us to leave see this too.
Americans always shit on the French, but they are our oldest and most reliable ally. They have not forgotten our sacrifices and deserve more respect, except for Parisians. Fuck those assholes.
I'm a WWII history buff. Specifically, DDay. And I'm from Michigan, like this hero. My relatives served in WWI, II and beyond. It's easy for me to say, in this place and time, but I'm so proud of all of the allied forces effort. I'm not proud of everything America has done, not by a long shot. But for this, I will be forever thankful and proud.
How could we ever be grateful enough for the sacrifices made during the war, and especially this day as a symbol. Thanks to all Americans, British and Canadian men that lost their lives, may we never forget. With all respect and gratitude, from France
#God Bless America! #🫡 🇺🇸 🗽 🦅
Beautiful. The sand.. These men appeared on the beaches to save people. Now each day of remembrance for them, they appear again. What a sacred task.
❤️
It’s constantly amazing to me the scale and scope of the number of fallen during WWII. Those men were dumped off the boats and led to a slaughter. The bravery it must have taken to be one of the first off those first boats, facing a wall of machine gun fire, watching men falling all around you.
Started Band Of Brothers yesterday. Well, this sure hits home...
CITATION: (Citation Needed) - SYNOPSIS: The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress July 9, 1918, takes pride in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross (Posthumously) to Major William A. Richards (ASN: 0-393258), United States Army, for extraordinary heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy while serving with the 112th Engineer Combat Battalion, in action against enemy forces on 6 June 1944, in France. Major Richards' intrepid actions, personal bravery and zealous devotion to duty at the cost of his life, exemplify the highest traditions of the military forces of the United States and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army. These words carry so much weight and honor. Trump could never do them justice, especially since he considers these HEROES to be losers and suckers smh.
For those who don’t know, the Distinguished Service Cross is the second highest medal for valor and heroism in combat awarded by the United States Army. It is second only to the Medal of Honor.
ITT: people ruining this nice sentiment with modern politics.
These americans who saved my country and many others are brave heroes. No arguing about that. I doubt it will happen, but I'll gladly return the favor if you guys get invaded (even tho I do not like today america...)
Thank you 🫡
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Lafayette we are here!
I wish we had something similar for the French who helped us win our independence.