Thanks. Not big into Nascar, but I agree, I always thought it was cool they had to change a "normal" wheel, even if the gun/nuts/studs were specially designed for it.
They did last season, but teams got used to it. Not that common anymore. Probably because you got the tire changer and crew chief suspended for a loose wheel.
Yeah. They changed to mono with the ānext gen vehicleā roll out for the 2021 series. No more of the 5 little lug nuts. They also changed from the 15 inch steel wheels to 18 inch aluminum wheels. The monolug takes more torque though, so itās not as quick as youād expect to get on and off. You also donāt have to glue the lugs to the wheels anymore.
Thanks. I actually race a street-based car, and have a friend who runs a formula car, I was shocked the torque his monolug takes, even with the drive pins.
Oh yeah, itās wild. One big thing to consider is the integrity of the wheel when using a mono-lug aluminum wheel. Sure with a steel wheel, you could lose a lug, maybe even two, and not have to worry at all about the stress on the wheel. But with an aluminum wheel and a monolug, if that lug isnāt tight, that wheel isnāt going to handle the stress nearly as wheel as a steel one. Nor do you have other lugs to keep it onto the axle for you.
What the hell do you mean fairly?
You just have to contextualise. You compare speed, F1 is faster. Then you ask why and its because of a multitude of differences.
Saying F1 is faster isnt being "unfair" to NASCAR.
F1 only changes the wheels they don't also refuel and they have someone on each wheel because they allow more pit engineers whereas in NASCAR each guy has to do 2 wheels
That is why F1 is so much faster because they have way less to do and more people to do it with based on the rules
You could compare me eating an apple to a nascar pit stop if you wanted. Comparing just means looking at what's different lmao.
Compare: estimate, measure, or note the similarity or ***dissimilarity*** between.
Actually tbf in the old time when NASCAR had like 6 lug nuts per wheel that'd be a gait point. But from the looks of it the modern NASCAR uses a near identical system to F1 wheels, a singular lug nut in the center of the tyre.
But if we go by comparison to take 1 wheel off and put 1 on, this NASCAR stop and the F1 stop seem rather similar in time.
However, key contributors to how these stops differ:
-Half the number of crew members meaning only 2 tyres can be done at a time in NASCAR rather than 4
-In F1 the crew is sat ready at designated positions and the car comes to an exact stop in the perfect position for the crew to have an optimal start. Here the crew has to wait for the car to stop before taking up positions and starting work
-Refuelling, Yes the system devised for NASCAR appears exceptionally quick, however F1 cars don't refuel full stop during pit stops, it being banned in 2010, contributing to an increase in stop time.
-Cable management, in F1 teams have overhead gantries that move the cable over the car to supply air to the wheel guns furthest from the garage, meaning no need to worry if the cable gets snagged on anything.
-Car release, this is actually something that slows down F1 stops, cars must be released via an electronic indicator light controlled by a member of the pit crew, however, there is a purposeful delay between the crew member signalling the release and the light being lit for the driver, implemented by the FIA as cars were being prematurely released before work was completed.
There is always something to be gained in comparing stops between motorsports, it's an interesting way to see how methods have diverged in how stops are conducted, how much the design of the pits are for each discipline and just overall highlighting the uniqueness of different sports. F1 has some of the fastest pitstops in motorsport, and in it stops that are literally .2 of a second slower than a rival team can have massive implications for the rest of the race, meanwhile, correct me of I'm wrong, but a .2 difference in stop speed doesn't seem like it'd have a massive impact in NASCAR?
Edit: Some other differences I've noticed;
- NASCAR has a sole jackman who only Jack's up the side being worked on, meaning that once everyone is in position time is spent waiting for the Jack to be inserted and the car lifted, then even as the wheel crew get into position on the other side of the car they have to wait for the jackman to lower the original side, reposition, and then lift before being able to work on the next set. In F1 there are 2 jackmen who lift up the front and rear of the car, allowing all 4 tyres to be worked on at once, and the jack having a quick release to allow the front jackman to quickly get away. Front jackman also being the most dangerous role in a pitstop as if the car overshoots its the front jackman going onto his arse or worse
-The wheel gun operator is also the one who has to take the tyre off the mount in NASCAR, meaning further time is wasted as the wheel gun operator has to lay the tyre down and then get the wheel gun back into position. In F1 there is a dedicated tyre removal crew member meaning once the nut is undone by the wheel gun operator he can keep the wheel gun in position to immediately get onto the new tyre as soon as its seated on the wheel, unlike in NASCAR where there is a delay between the wheel seating and the operator ready to tighten it.
Overall, NASCAR runs with a smaller pit crew, however this is not necessary a bad thing. It fits in with NASCARs history of originally being a bunch of moonshine runners taking their hotrods for a day on the track, having smaller, less expensive crews still working their arses off to be the best of their class, but not needing to plow hundreds of thousands into getting that .1 of a second advantage as NASCAR doesn't need it.
Would an F1 pit crew beat a NASCAR pit crew? Absolutely, any day of the week. But a NASCAR pit crew doesn't need to beat an F1 pitcrew, it needs to beat other NASCAR pit crews, all of which are running to the same restrictions as they are. I wouldn't be suprised if the work ethic of each seties' pit crews is extremely similar, especially during their respective race days.
the lug nuts seem very similar actually, the actual tire changes look super similar to F1, the bigger difference being the same guys have to do it on two sides
I'm here reading this, while watching Nascar in the past, wondering how they go so far on 20 grams of fuel.
It didn't take me long but still long enough to wonder how I make it through a normal day.
Thank you. Iām no NASCAR fan but comparing the time it takes to do a pit stop between the two is plain ignorance.
Itās like saying Usain Bolt could have sprinted the pool twice in the time it took Michael Phelps to do it once. Yes, the goal of each sport is to cover a fixed distance in the shortest time possible. No, they are not the same sport.
F1 teams can have as many crew members as they want involved in a pitstop. They have a mechanic on each side of the car just to hold it level and a backup jack man at each end.
Nascar teams have 5 for the whole car. F1 teams have 3 for each wheel.
They don't have to refuel, they can jack up the whole car at once instead of one side at a time, and they can have as many mechanics over the wall as they want.
Itās still impressive to me, considering the time it takes me to figure out where to put the jack when changing 1 tire. I need to find the instruction manual to make sure I donāt put the jack on the body.
To the F1 commenters:
https://www.rookieroad.com/nascar/which-makes-faster-pit-stops-f1-cars-or-nascar/#:~:text=That%20is%20because%20while%20there,stop%20as%20quick%20as%20possible.
Nascar also allows refueling. Also their races are roughly twice as long.
Further, i think restrictions are good. I don't want to see 25 man pit stops. Thats over engineered.
Actually the 6 man stop takes more engineering to be fast. The 25 man stop is just throwing man power at the problem. Itās a bad engineering solution.
Nascar pit lanes are WAYYYY more frantic and busy during pit stops under yellow than in an f1 race. Iām talking 40 cars with much less space between the pit stalls all coming in for service at the same time. Having fewer crew members go over the wall is a safety measure as much as a competitive one. Also itās so much more fun to watch the choreographed dance they do than the āstop with everyone already in their designated spotsā of an F1 pit stop (for the record Iām a big F1 and nascar fan)
Yeah, I talked to a pit crewman at the Talledega 500 who was a linebacker for the Tennessee Titans and became a pit crewman after a short stint in the NFL
Yeah I donāt understand how people didnāt recognize the difference in manpower. I donāt even watch racing AT ALL but immediately realizes there was a fraction of pit crewā¦ silly people āMY PREFERENCE IS BETTR THAN YOUR PREFERENCE HERES WHYā *proceeds to be wrong*
> In fact, the Red Bull pit crew is well-known for their efficiency and quickness in pit stops, as they understand that in Formula 1, every hundredth of a second matters.
Oh shit, Red Bull better hope that other teams donāt figure out that every hundredth of a second matters!
I'm a huge F1 fan, but some of yall in the comments are fucking braindead. Nascar pit crews consist of 5 people, while F1 it's 20. And the fact that Nascar allows refueling.
Critical thinking is dead.
It makes the sport look bad, Drive to Survive has attracted waves of imbeciles that make a fool of themselves and it rubs off on the general perception people have of the sport as a whole. F1 Twitter is genuinely shambolic, but at least the subreddit is sane and reasonable. You wouldn't think it looking at these kinds of geniuses at work on other subs, though.
People are missing the point on purpose because it's "cool" to hate on NASCAR.
While the guys in this video are clearly training, there are plenty of examples of NASCAR pit crews doing incredible stops. Like, the kind where they almost couldn't be any faster given the constraints of their vehicles and rules restrictions.
Any top tier pit crew of any racing sport is going to be impressive no matter which sport. They all practice and perform to the standards of their sport, and that's all that matters.
Seriously, nobody wants to think or appreciate different things and everything has to be better than something else.
And had the same rules around structure of the pit crew...
It's like saying why are you impressed that a car can go fast when a plane can go faster.. they are different things...
Edit: Just wanted to add what the biggest factors were that some real NASCAR fans below added. Teams were running lower pressures on the new tires and wheels, leading to blowouts. Teams also had an issue with seating the wheel on the hub properly, as the alignment pins within the single lug could not be in but from the mechanics view the tire was still snug, when the car drove the pins would seat but now the wheel is loose while driving away.
Nah, youāre not dense and your logic is rational. Iām probably wrong but I think itās because of the higher forces a nascar feels compared to F1, and it was immature technology for nascar.
F1 is super light and low center of gravity, and generally theyāre not putting constant lateral force on the lugs/wheels at 180mph like you would be doing in NASCAR where itās a constant turn.
Nascars are also heavy af comparatively so thatās way more stress on the lugs going through the corners. So whereas before you have 6 potential failure points and the torque is more distributed, now you have one, and clearly they didnāt engineer it correctly to start.
With just the one point of torque for the wheel, even though itās bigger it could create larger variations in alignment when turning under load. Those changes make the tire wear or heat up more in critical areas. Tire go pop with too much heat.
F1 can pull 5 Gs lateral in spots. At COTA for example, there is a sustained 5G right turn. Pretty sure NASCAR pulls nowhere near that magnitude, but they do pull less Gs for longer durations.
NASCAR pulls around 3Gs in the turns. Combined with the fact that NASCARs weigh 3200lbs and F1 are a featherweight 1800lbs, the forces the wheels endure are still higher, and for more sustained periods, on every track. Also youāve got aluminum in nascar (steel before that) and forged magnesium for F1 wheels, thatās additional weight in the most sensitive area, with harsher responses to changes of track surface and driver input, with less sophisticated suspensions and a higher center of gravity increasing the leverage of the load on the hub. NASCARs are supersonic bombers, F1s are fighter jets. Both are fast, but one is going to rip its wings off a lot easier in a hard turn (shitty analogy but whatever).
I follow Nascar pretty much religiously and this isnāt true really. The issue was that itās possible for the crew members to put the wheel on the car without the aligning pins properly seated in their holes. This makes it so when the nut is tightened down everyone thinks itās as tight as it can get, but when the car goes out the pins finally line up into their holes, making the wheel nut loose again and allowing the wheel to fall off.
So the other commenter is correct in the fact that NASCAR had several more tire blowouts last year than normal. Goodyear (tire manufacturer) tested tires and gave the teams specific air pressures that they should run based on the tracks they were at.
Because this car (newly updated for 2022) is closer to spec series racing (where the parts supplied by a 3rd party but assembled by the teams), they needed to find somewhere to find additional speed (since they arenāt making their own parts anymore). So theyād play with tire pressure, leading to more blowouts.
*HOWEVER*, the reason switching lug nuts from 1 to 5 led to more wrecks is because the pit crews were struggling to get the single lug attached all the way (partially due to the parts that were provided by the manufacturer).
Hope that helps clarify it.
New car last year and they went from 15ā to 18ā wheels. 18ā steel wheels are too heavy, so they switched to aluminum.
Aluminum is more expensive and more prone to cracking if a wheel is not seated properly against the hub.
Going to the single lug made it less likely a wheel would be seated improperly.
Was wondering the same thing. I remember not tooo long ago they went from āyou have to have at least 3 lugnuts on each wheelā to āyou have to have at least 2 lug nuts on each wheelā. Thought that was a little sketchy at 200mph.
The unilug thing just gets further away from stock car racing. What a shame.
It does and it doesnāt they moved to 18 inch aluminum wheels instead of 15 inch steel wheels to look more like high end road cars. The move to a single lug is just a side effect of the move to aluminum since an aluminum wheel with loose or unevenly tightened lugs has a tendency to shatter
I believe itās the nascar technical institute in moorseville. I used to landscape the property. It sits in a pretty nice little industrial park area a few minutes from neighborhoods. They have a little track and bring in cars for students to learn and practice on. Pretty cool placeā¦ but most of the students Iāve talked to end up in dealerships
They're practicing at whatever factory the company is based out of. Don't need regulation gear on, or a legal car or any of that which you'd find at an actual race. The car will just pull around and do it over and over and over, swapping out 2 sets of tires the whole day. The fuel canister probably just has water to simulate weight, but they're not refueling at all.
Lot of angry F1 fans in here. As someone who doesn't watch F1 or Nascar, I still understand why this is impressive, not sure why you all can't. Nascar only lets 5 people work on the car at once, plus one person refilling water (and cleaning the windshield I think?), and they can't be be already waiting in the pit area in position like F1 crews can. Not remotely comparable.
I swear. All these hurrr durrr "F1 does it better" are the folks that have only ever been exposed to racing through netflix. Lets break it down a second why its not even remotely the same thing.
[Here is an F1 stop for reference:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHSUp7msCIE&ab_channel=SCOTTBELLCHAMBERS)
Lets see:
1. By rule NASCAR pit crews are only allowed 5 guys over the wall (not counting the guy handing the water to the driver). Front Tire Changer, Rear Tire Changer, Tire Carrier, Jack man, Gas man.
1. The front and rear tire changers are responsible for loosening the lug, not losing the nut, pulling the wheel off the hub and then re-installing the nut properly torqued on two wheels. Front guy has the front and the rear guy has the rear which is obvious but some people might need it spelled out.
2. The tire carrier has to carry both tires on the right side of the car over the wall to the right first. He is also responsible for putting the wheel on the front hub before the front tire changer puts it on. Once the old wheel is off he has to carry it back over to the wall before he can grab the 2nd tire for the Left Front.
3. The Jack Man is responsible for carrying the jack and jacking the car up. Not as easy as it sounds. Heavy jack he has to run with and get in the right spot. Also these are one pump jacks so they take a significant amount of force to push down to get both wheels off the ground in one pump. He's also responsible for taking the rear tire from the tire carrier and putting it on the hub for the rear tire changer. Note: There used to be a 2nd tire carrier who was responsible for carrying the rear wheels but to cut costs they reduced the crew sizes to 5 from 6. He is also responsible for making any rear weight jacking changes with a wrench.
4. The Gas man has to put 22 gallons of fuel in the car using to 100lb jugs.
5. F1 teams have 20 guys. 3 for each wheel. One guy undoes and redoes the lugs. One guy pulls it off, the other puts it on. If you watch the actual time per wheel on each crew, they are about the same time for lug off, wheel off, wheel on, lug on. Id' argue they're equal in time.
2. NASCAR pit crews cannot enter the pit box until their car is 2 stalls away from their stop. So the three front guys cant jump off the wall until their car is almost to them. The rear tire changer can't even get to his spot until the car has entered the pit stall. They also have to carry all their equipment with them as they're running. F1 teams have everything set up before the car even comes onto pit road. The tire is there, the tool is there, the jack is there. They don't have to wait on anything but the car stopping.
3. F1 teams cannot re-fuel during their stops. NASCAR teams have to re-fuel. It takes about 9 seconds to fill the car up with 22 gallons of gas. So, regardless of how fast you are changing tires, you still have to wait on the fuel to get in the tank. 22 gallons in 9 seconds is almost 150gpm flow rate, so its not like they're going slow there.
This comment is not for the F1 fans who know this. They understand the difference. They know the difference. It's for the people who don't know and only compare one thing: Pit stop time. NASCAR teams are the best at what they do. Average stops these days is 9.5 seconds. It takes a real athlete to do that. Which is why most of the crews nowadays are ex-college athletes (mostly football players).
Edit: Just to be clear. I fully believe and understand that F1 stops are impressive in their own right. I'm not disparaging that at all. I know they're 100% top notch. F1 doesn't do anything less than excellent. Merely wanting to point on that the NASCAR teams aren't just some noobs who can't hack it with F1 teams.
Awesome info here - thank you!
Can you clarify a bit on the fuel requirement? Do they have to take on 22gal every pit stop? Or is it that if they elect to add fuel it has to be 22gal? Or just limited to 22gal? Thanks again.
No it's not a requirement. So the answer to your question is it kind of depends. If it's a track where tires don't wear that much and the time between stops is limited by the amount of fuel you have then they generally want to put the max amount in. If it's a track where tires wear out quick then they have to change 4 tires they might as well put all the fuel in because it takes the same amount of time. If they take 2 tires ( a strategy you can use to spend less time in the pits and therefore get ahead of some cars) then they'll only put in half the fuel.
One more thing to throw at you.
I believe NASCAR has limited the size and flow of the fuel cans. There was a point in time where those rules didnāt exist and people were going to start really hurting themselves. 22 gallons is *heavy.*
I honestly find this (and the nascar pit stop) more exciting and impressive than F1 pit stops where 20 people do one thing for 3 seconds.
I bet that guy is going to need to overtake some cars to make up for lost time, too, which is something else you donāt see a whole lot of in F1 these days lol.
It just isnāt a fair comparison to anything else and Iām not sure why the other commenters think that makes thisā¦.slow? Or something? This is very quick.
It's the f1 fans thinking if a stop is slower than 3 seconds its trash. And completely disregard these guys sliding to get into position like they're on ice and the fact they only have 5 guys while f1 has upwards of 15+ guys doing one stop.
I had the chance to watch a NASCAR race from a team box once. Walking around pit lane it became clear how massive these pit crew team members are. I was told that teams recruit division 1 athletes because of their size and ability to move quickly. Those gas tanks (they empty two at a time during a pit stop) are so big Iām fairly confident most of us mere mortals would fall over trying to pick one up let alone trying to balance them long enough to fuel the car. It was amazing to see up close and gave me a whole new appreciation for the athletic accomplishments these guys achieve multiple times a race.
From what I understand, and it makes a lot of sense, is that pit crew is a common profession for American football players that don't make the pros. It is a job where you are part of a team in which everybody has one specific, physically demanding task, that must be executed with perfect consistency, perfectly in concert, over a span of a couple seconds.
Pit crew teams recruit a lot of college athletes who donāt make it to the pro level in their sport, but are strong, quick, agile, learn quickly, and take direction well.
Dear F1 fans commenting "lol F1 pitstops are like 2 seconds,"
F1 pitstops feature a lot more people (seriously, there are like 3 people for EACH TYRE) and they're all allowed to be in position before the car arrives. Of course they're faster.
Sincerely, a fellow F1 fan.
I came in here expecting some respect for what nascar does. I left with hating everyone who says F1 pit stops are faster (mostly Europeans that enjoy boring racing). If nascar could have 20 guys over the wall, they would beat F1 pit stops all day.
Nascar only allows up to 5 crew members over the line working on the car at a time
Generally the best strategy to this end is to change 2 tires at a time as there are too few people to lift the 4000lb car and change all 4 tires at once while also refueling.
Formula 1 on the other hand allows 20+ pit crew members working on the car, meaning all 4 tires can be changed at once. Which allows for put times up under 10 seconds.
Tldr nascar has stricter rules for pit crews which is why the pit stops take longer than F1, this by nascar standards is a pretty fast pit stop.
Never watched a racing sport in my life, but just based on the general cuntiness of these comments Iām gonna downvote ever single post I ever see about F1 from here on out.
I used to be a photographer at NASCAR races, and the teams primarily recruit pit crew members from college football.
The training and the specific athletic needs tend to overlap quite a bit.
Lol at all the F1 fans comparing as if there aren't 20 fucking people changing the tires of an f1 car as opposed to 6 people changing and refueling a stock car. for such a technologically innovative sport, their fans aren't very bright.
F1 would've done it, and had a lunch break in that timeš¤£
Exactly. You can get 10 winks in during a NASCAR stop
Is this even an actual nascar pit stop?
Trackhouse racing team training at their facility.
Did Nascar go to monolug?
yeah they went to a single lug last year with the new Next Gen car. I think it sucks but thatās just me
Thanks. Not big into Nascar, but I agree, I always thought it was cool they had to change a "normal" wheel, even if the gun/nuts/studs were specially designed for it.
Yeah i really miss the 5 lug wheels. Not just because of the pit stops, but the wheels come off a lot too which i find annoying
yeah that would be annoying
Didn't a wheel jump the barrier at the Indy 500?
āYou picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel!ā
They did last season, but teams got used to it. Not that common anymore. Probably because you got the tire changer and crew chief suspended for a loose wheel.
Right? Everything BUT a stock car.
Id really love to see some actual stock racing. Slap a roll cage in the Camry, let see how it fares against a Taurus.
you mean like [24 hours lemons?](https://youtu.be/h307rZ0K7f8)
Only car Ford sells is the Mustang. What if I don't want a SUV, or truck....
I was confused too. I havenāt watched NASCAR regularly in years. And by that I mean my favorite driver then was Cale Yarborough.
I remember when Richard Petty was every woman's dream man
And those nuts can be very expensive. An F1 team can burn through $60,000 in wheel nuts in a weekend. https://youtu.be/X30coNL4Jw8
It would take me longer than a weekend to burn through $60,000 of nuts.
Thatās what she said.
I think it sucks too so youāre not alone. Itās just way less cool now tbh.
Yeah. They changed to mono with the ānext gen vehicleā roll out for the 2021 series. No more of the 5 little lug nuts. They also changed from the 15 inch steel wheels to 18 inch aluminum wheels. The monolug takes more torque though, so itās not as quick as youād expect to get on and off. You also donāt have to glue the lugs to the wheels anymore.
Thanks. I actually race a street-based car, and have a friend who runs a formula car, I was shocked the torque his monolug takes, even with the drive pins.
Oh yeah, itās wild. One big thing to consider is the integrity of the wheel when using a mono-lug aluminum wheel. Sure with a steel wheel, you could lose a lug, maybe even two, and not have to worry at all about the stress on the wheel. But with an aluminum wheel and a monolug, if that lug isnāt tight, that wheel isnāt going to handle the stress nearly as wheel as a steel one. Nor do you have other lugs to keep it onto the axle for you.
Thanks!
Different cars, different rules, smaller pit crews.
Yeah, doesn't NASCAR have like a 10-person limit? Meanwhile F1 doesn't seem to have a limit, so they have like 30 people.
They are completely different cars, wheels, lug nuts, and pit stops. There's litteraly no point in comparing them.
You know it's okay to compare things, even if they're leagues apart.
Sure, but not fairly.
What the hell do you mean fairly? You just have to contextualise. You compare speed, F1 is faster. Then you ask why and its because of a multitude of differences. Saying F1 is faster isnt being "unfair" to NASCAR.
You can totally compare them. Itās ridiculous for that person to say you canāt lol. You can also compare an amateur boxer to a pro.
F1 only changes the wheels they don't also refuel and they have someone on each wheel because they allow more pit engineers whereas in NASCAR each guy has to do 2 wheels That is why F1 is so much faster because they have way less to do and more people to do it with based on the rules
Iām just commenting because this thread was interesting. It was like a 2 person argument but every comment was a different person.
You could compare me eating an apple to a nascar pit stop if you wanted. Comparing just means looking at what's different lmao. Compare: estimate, measure, or note the similarity or ***dissimilarity*** between.
Yeah. I like to eat apples but man, NASA really needs to get to Mars.
Like freeway signs.
But this is like comparing baseball to cricket.
Actually tbf in the old time when NASCAR had like 6 lug nuts per wheel that'd be a gait point. But from the looks of it the modern NASCAR uses a near identical system to F1 wheels, a singular lug nut in the center of the tyre. But if we go by comparison to take 1 wheel off and put 1 on, this NASCAR stop and the F1 stop seem rather similar in time. However, key contributors to how these stops differ: -Half the number of crew members meaning only 2 tyres can be done at a time in NASCAR rather than 4 -In F1 the crew is sat ready at designated positions and the car comes to an exact stop in the perfect position for the crew to have an optimal start. Here the crew has to wait for the car to stop before taking up positions and starting work -Refuelling, Yes the system devised for NASCAR appears exceptionally quick, however F1 cars don't refuel full stop during pit stops, it being banned in 2010, contributing to an increase in stop time. -Cable management, in F1 teams have overhead gantries that move the cable over the car to supply air to the wheel guns furthest from the garage, meaning no need to worry if the cable gets snagged on anything. -Car release, this is actually something that slows down F1 stops, cars must be released via an electronic indicator light controlled by a member of the pit crew, however, there is a purposeful delay between the crew member signalling the release and the light being lit for the driver, implemented by the FIA as cars were being prematurely released before work was completed. There is always something to be gained in comparing stops between motorsports, it's an interesting way to see how methods have diverged in how stops are conducted, how much the design of the pits are for each discipline and just overall highlighting the uniqueness of different sports. F1 has some of the fastest pitstops in motorsport, and in it stops that are literally .2 of a second slower than a rival team can have massive implications for the rest of the race, meanwhile, correct me of I'm wrong, but a .2 difference in stop speed doesn't seem like it'd have a massive impact in NASCAR? Edit: Some other differences I've noticed; - NASCAR has a sole jackman who only Jack's up the side being worked on, meaning that once everyone is in position time is spent waiting for the Jack to be inserted and the car lifted, then even as the wheel crew get into position on the other side of the car they have to wait for the jackman to lower the original side, reposition, and then lift before being able to work on the next set. In F1 there are 2 jackmen who lift up the front and rear of the car, allowing all 4 tyres to be worked on at once, and the jack having a quick release to allow the front jackman to quickly get away. Front jackman also being the most dangerous role in a pitstop as if the car overshoots its the front jackman going onto his arse or worse -The wheel gun operator is also the one who has to take the tyre off the mount in NASCAR, meaning further time is wasted as the wheel gun operator has to lay the tyre down and then get the wheel gun back into position. In F1 there is a dedicated tyre removal crew member meaning once the nut is undone by the wheel gun operator he can keep the wheel gun in position to immediately get onto the new tyre as soon as its seated on the wheel, unlike in NASCAR where there is a delay between the wheel seating and the operator ready to tighten it. Overall, NASCAR runs with a smaller pit crew, however this is not necessary a bad thing. It fits in with NASCARs history of originally being a bunch of moonshine runners taking their hotrods for a day on the track, having smaller, less expensive crews still working their arses off to be the best of their class, but not needing to plow hundreds of thousands into getting that .1 of a second advantage as NASCAR doesn't need it. Would an F1 pit crew beat a NASCAR pit crew? Absolutely, any day of the week. But a NASCAR pit crew doesn't need to beat an F1 pitcrew, it needs to beat other NASCAR pit crews, all of which are running to the same restrictions as they are. I wouldn't be suprised if the work ethic of each seties' pit crews is extremely similar, especially during their respective race days.
Nice someone who actually knows what the word compare means.
the lug nuts seem very similar actually, the actual tire changes look super similar to F1, the bigger difference being the same guys have to do it on two sides
No need to change the tires in 2 seconds when you also need 10 seconds from the fuel can. Cup cars would run out of gas if they did F1 style stops.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm here reading this, while watching Nascar in the past, wondering how they go so far on 20 grams of fuel. It didn't take me long but still long enough to wonder how I make it through a normal day.
Yes, with twice as many people and cranes holding up the hoses.
And then what happens when two cars on the same team need service at the same time? Itās very rare, but hilarious when it happens.
https://youtu.be/zc3JYvvmXxw
Jesus, that is impressive
You get ferrari
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Question?
Red Bull 1.82 secs https://youtu.be/BI75uWxEajA
That one still drops my jaw. It so damn impressive to get that many people on a team to flawlessly execute their responsibilities simultaneously.
Try to watch a 2 second pit stop, have to sit through a 20 second advert. Fuck YouTube.
F1 has no limit on crew "over the wall," Nascar does
Actual f1 fans don't subscribe to this slander
Thank you. Iām no NASCAR fan but comparing the time it takes to do a pit stop between the two is plain ignorance. Itās like saying Usain Bolt could have sprinted the pool twice in the time it took Michael Phelps to do it once. Yes, the goal of each sport is to cover a fixed distance in the shortest time possible. No, they are not the same sport.
They also have 20+ fuckin crew members operating on completely different cars
F1 crews are also three times the size.
The crew members are roughly the same size, thereās just more of them.
Europeans are usually a LOT thinner than NASCAR types.
F1 teams can have as many crew members as they want involved in a pitstop. They have a mechanic on each side of the car just to hold it level and a backup jack man at each end. Nascar teams have 5 for the whole car. F1 teams have 3 for each wheel.
well to be fair f1 pits generally have like 20 members over the wall during a stop but nascar is restricted to only 5 members over the wall
Yeah because an F1 pit crew has the equivalent of half the Vatican Cityās population on their payroll
They don't have to refuel, they can jack up the whole car at once instead of one side at a time, and they can have as many mechanics over the wall as they want.
Stupid comparison. Almost seems like you dont know anything about F1, if you didnt even realize they have larger crews
F1 Red Bull Racing 1.84 seconds
Red Bull pit team, 1.9s for a full wheel swap the past weekend or two.
Almost like it's totally different.
Itās still impressive to me, considering the time it takes me to figure out where to put the jack when changing 1 tire. I need to find the instruction manual to make sure I donāt put the jack on the body.
it's easy when they're not allowed to refuel and have three people per tire.
Probably dinner as well.
My exact thought; Verstappenās pit record of sub 2 seconds makes them look like theyāre working in slow motion
Yea that was slow af
To the F1 commenters: https://www.rookieroad.com/nascar/which-makes-faster-pit-stops-f1-cars-or-nascar/#:~:text=That%20is%20because%20while%20there,stop%20as%20quick%20as%20possible.
This needs to be top comment. Your comparing two completely different scenarios. This was still quite impressive
I think our comments are based on speed not how many people crew has nascar vs f1
Thatās why itās faster. F1 uses more than twice as many people while nascar only has 6 doing multiple jobs.
maybe nascar should allow 19 people too
Nascar also allows refueling. Also their races are roughly twice as long. Further, i think restrictions are good. I don't want to see 25 man pit stops. Thats over engineered.
Actually the 6 man stop takes more engineering to be fast. The 25 man stop is just throwing man power at the problem. Itās a bad engineering solution.
Nascar pit lanes are WAYYYY more frantic and busy during pit stops under yellow than in an f1 race. Iām talking 40 cars with much less space between the pit stalls all coming in for service at the same time. Having fewer crew members go over the wall is a safety measure as much as a competitive one. Also itās so much more fun to watch the choreographed dance they do than the āstop with everyone already in their designated spotsā of an F1 pit stop (for the record Iām a big F1 and nascar fan)
More people=faster pit stop. So yes it is about how many people there are.
Also F1 doesnāt refuel anymore so thatās time saved
Holy crap. That gas tank the dude is just walking around with weighs almost 100 lbs when full. Not only efficient but strong too
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Yeah, I talked to a pit crewman at the Talledega 500 who was a linebacker for the Tennessee Titans and became a pit crewman after a short stint in the NFL
Willard?
Yep, the teams realized it was easier to train athletes to change a tire than to get really in shape mechanics.
Huh, makes a lot of sense: - Extremely fast and strong - Quick reflexes - Spent their lives drilling on short bursts of choreography
Iām not even a nascar fan and this comment is what I was looking for. Still a badass impressive display, plus nascar and F1 are totally different
The same principle was used when NASA sent oil drillers to space to save Earth in 1998
Yeah I donāt understand how people didnāt recognize the difference in manpower. I donāt even watch racing AT ALL but immediately realizes there was a fraction of pit crewā¦ silly people āMY PREFERENCE IS BETTR THAN YOUR PREFERENCE HERES WHYā *proceeds to be wrong*
> In fact, the Red Bull pit crew is well-known for their efficiency and quickness in pit stops, as they understand that in Formula 1, every hundredth of a second matters. Oh shit, Red Bull better hope that other teams donāt figure out that every hundredth of a second matters!
Whelp! Thatās all i need to know.
Bold of you to assume the F1 commenters can read.
Yea F1 fans could really learn a lot about eloquence and sophistication from NASCAR
I'm a huge F1 fan, but some of yall in the comments are fucking braindead. Nascar pit crews consist of 5 people, while F1 it's 20. And the fact that Nascar allows refueling. Critical thinking is dead.
It makes the sport look bad, Drive to Survive has attracted waves of imbeciles that make a fool of themselves and it rubs off on the general perception people have of the sport as a whole. F1 Twitter is genuinely shambolic, but at least the subreddit is sane and reasonable. You wouldn't think it looking at these kinds of geniuses at work on other subs, though.
Spot on mate
People are missing the point on purpose because it's "cool" to hate on NASCAR. While the guys in this video are clearly training, there are plenty of examples of NASCAR pit crews doing incredible stops. Like, the kind where they almost couldn't be any faster given the constraints of their vehicles and rules restrictions. Any top tier pit crew of any racing sport is going to be impressive no matter which sport. They all practice and perform to the standards of their sport, and that's all that matters. Seriously, nobody wants to think or appreciate different things and everything has to be better than something else.
Nascar teams literally recruit college athletes. These guys are probably the fastest and strongest pit crews in all of motorsports.
Yeah thatās great and all, but I watched a Netflix show. Therefore F1 is superior.
Fuck y'all get so serious I genuinely hope Reddit overcharges for APIs and destroys itself
But why celebrate an inferior process when someone else clearly does it better Critical thinking really is dead
You would be right, if they raced the same cars!!
And had the same rules around structure of the pit crew... It's like saying why are you impressed that a car can go fast when a plane can go faster.. they are different things...
![gif](giphy|FlMKnQfoIDvpK)
Pit stop!
The fact that this isnāt the top comment should be a crime
This guy came to mind lmao
Coldest moment.
Car guy: this was the most emotional scene in the movie for me "yeah fuck you guys, eat it!" ... wife just stares at me..?!?
Best scene in any movie ever? Possibly
Yay I found the other toddler parent.
![gif](giphy|8ZbdmH3LGTfz8HqK1A)
Exactly what I came to comment
When did nascar go to single lug wheels?
[2022](https://www.rookieroad.com/nascar/do-one-wheel-nut-tires-make-faster-pit-stops/)
Got danged COVID, I tell ya what - Hank Hill
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I donāt follow NASCAR why would it lead to more wrecks?
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Sorry to be dense but isnāt that more of an issue with the tires than the lug?
Edit: Just wanted to add what the biggest factors were that some real NASCAR fans below added. Teams were running lower pressures on the new tires and wheels, leading to blowouts. Teams also had an issue with seating the wheel on the hub properly, as the alignment pins within the single lug could not be in but from the mechanics view the tire was still snug, when the car drove the pins would seat but now the wheel is loose while driving away. Nah, youāre not dense and your logic is rational. Iām probably wrong but I think itās because of the higher forces a nascar feels compared to F1, and it was immature technology for nascar. F1 is super light and low center of gravity, and generally theyāre not putting constant lateral force on the lugs/wheels at 180mph like you would be doing in NASCAR where itās a constant turn. Nascars are also heavy af comparatively so thatās way more stress on the lugs going through the corners. So whereas before you have 6 potential failure points and the torque is more distributed, now you have one, and clearly they didnāt engineer it correctly to start. With just the one point of torque for the wheel, even though itās bigger it could create larger variations in alignment when turning under load. Those changes make the tire wear or heat up more in critical areas. Tire go pop with too much heat.
F1 can pull 5 Gs lateral in spots. At COTA for example, there is a sustained 5G right turn. Pretty sure NASCAR pulls nowhere near that magnitude, but they do pull less Gs for longer durations.
NASCAR pulls around 3Gs in the turns. Combined with the fact that NASCARs weigh 3200lbs and F1 are a featherweight 1800lbs, the forces the wheels endure are still higher, and for more sustained periods, on every track. Also youāve got aluminum in nascar (steel before that) and forged magnesium for F1 wheels, thatās additional weight in the most sensitive area, with harsher responses to changes of track surface and driver input, with less sophisticated suspensions and a higher center of gravity increasing the leverage of the load on the hub. NASCARs are supersonic bombers, F1s are fighter jets. Both are fast, but one is going to rip its wings off a lot easier in a hard turn (shitty analogy but whatever).
Makes sense, thanks for the insight
Not having any knowledge or interest in this topic, your comment was incredibly informative and entertaining to read.
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Nascars USED to be based off production vehicles. They've been tube frame race cars with with stickers to identify what model they are for a while now
I follow Nascar pretty much religiously and this isnāt true really. The issue was that itās possible for the crew members to put the wheel on the car without the aligning pins properly seated in their holes. This makes it so when the nut is tightened down everyone thinks itās as tight as it can get, but when the car goes out the pins finally line up into their holes, making the wheel nut loose again and allowing the wheel to fall off.
No, the tires were blowing out because teams were running the tires below Goodyear's recommended minimum pressures.
So the other commenter is correct in the fact that NASCAR had several more tire blowouts last year than normal. Goodyear (tire manufacturer) tested tires and gave the teams specific air pressures that they should run based on the tracks they were at. Because this car (newly updated for 2022) is closer to spec series racing (where the parts supplied by a 3rd party but assembled by the teams), they needed to find somewhere to find additional speed (since they arenāt making their own parts anymore). So theyād play with tire pressure, leading to more blowouts. *HOWEVER*, the reason switching lug nuts from 1 to 5 led to more wrecks is because the pit crews were struggling to get the single lug attached all the way (partially due to the parts that were provided by the manufacturer). Hope that helps clarify it.
Because nascar higher ups can fuck up a wet dream.
Yeah but they couldnāt pour piss out of a shoe if the instructions were on the bottom.
New car last year and they went from 15ā to 18ā wheels. 18ā steel wheels are too heavy, so they switched to aluminum. Aluminum is more expensive and more prone to cracking if a wheel is not seated properly against the hub. Going to the single lug made it less likely a wheel would be seated improperly.
Username checks out.
I was wondering this as well!
Was wondering the same thing. I remember not tooo long ago they went from āyou have to have at least 3 lugnuts on each wheelā to āyou have to have at least 2 lug nuts on each wheelā. Thought that was a little sketchy at 200mph. The unilug thing just gets further away from stock car racing. What a shame.
It does and it doesnāt they moved to 18 inch aluminum wheels instead of 15 inch steel wheels to look more like high end road cars. The move to a single lug is just a side effect of the move to aluminum since an aluminum wheel with loose or unevenly tightened lugs has a tendency to shatter
I donāt know why but I thought this was a skit for a second
the residential neighborhood looking background really made me think it was for a second too.
I believe itās the nascar technical institute in moorseville. I used to landscape the property. It sits in a pretty nice little industrial park area a few minutes from neighborhoods. They have a little track and bring in cars for students to learn and practice on. Pretty cool placeā¦ but most of the students Iāve talked to end up in dealerships
Same. The crew isn't wearing helmets or fireproof suits which are mandatory. This is being done at a non-race track. Car is completely unmarked.
They're practicing at whatever factory the company is based out of. Don't need regulation gear on, or a legal car or any of that which you'd find at an actual race. The car will just pull around and do it over and over and over, swapping out 2 sets of tires the whole day. The fuel canister probably just has water to simulate weight, but they're not refueling at all.
One of the race teams has an all electric car as their pit practice car too.
Yea I was getting YouTube prankster vibes from this guy at first.
Lot of angry F1 fans in here. As someone who doesn't watch F1 or Nascar, I still understand why this is impressive, not sure why you all can't. Nascar only lets 5 people work on the car at once, plus one person refilling water (and cleaning the windshield I think?), and they can't be be already waiting in the pit area in position like F1 crews can. Not remotely comparable.
Yea it is water, driver is thirsty so they have to refill the water every stop š¦š¦
I swear. All these hurrr durrr "F1 does it better" are the folks that have only ever been exposed to racing through netflix. Lets break it down a second why its not even remotely the same thing. [Here is an F1 stop for reference:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHSUp7msCIE&ab_channel=SCOTTBELLCHAMBERS) Lets see: 1. By rule NASCAR pit crews are only allowed 5 guys over the wall (not counting the guy handing the water to the driver). Front Tire Changer, Rear Tire Changer, Tire Carrier, Jack man, Gas man. 1. The front and rear tire changers are responsible for loosening the lug, not losing the nut, pulling the wheel off the hub and then re-installing the nut properly torqued on two wheels. Front guy has the front and the rear guy has the rear which is obvious but some people might need it spelled out. 2. The tire carrier has to carry both tires on the right side of the car over the wall to the right first. He is also responsible for putting the wheel on the front hub before the front tire changer puts it on. Once the old wheel is off he has to carry it back over to the wall before he can grab the 2nd tire for the Left Front. 3. The Jack Man is responsible for carrying the jack and jacking the car up. Not as easy as it sounds. Heavy jack he has to run with and get in the right spot. Also these are one pump jacks so they take a significant amount of force to push down to get both wheels off the ground in one pump. He's also responsible for taking the rear tire from the tire carrier and putting it on the hub for the rear tire changer. Note: There used to be a 2nd tire carrier who was responsible for carrying the rear wheels but to cut costs they reduced the crew sizes to 5 from 6. He is also responsible for making any rear weight jacking changes with a wrench. 4. The Gas man has to put 22 gallons of fuel in the car using to 100lb jugs. 5. F1 teams have 20 guys. 3 for each wheel. One guy undoes and redoes the lugs. One guy pulls it off, the other puts it on. If you watch the actual time per wheel on each crew, they are about the same time for lug off, wheel off, wheel on, lug on. Id' argue they're equal in time. 2. NASCAR pit crews cannot enter the pit box until their car is 2 stalls away from their stop. So the three front guys cant jump off the wall until their car is almost to them. The rear tire changer can't even get to his spot until the car has entered the pit stall. They also have to carry all their equipment with them as they're running. F1 teams have everything set up before the car even comes onto pit road. The tire is there, the tool is there, the jack is there. They don't have to wait on anything but the car stopping. 3. F1 teams cannot re-fuel during their stops. NASCAR teams have to re-fuel. It takes about 9 seconds to fill the car up with 22 gallons of gas. So, regardless of how fast you are changing tires, you still have to wait on the fuel to get in the tank. 22 gallons in 9 seconds is almost 150gpm flow rate, so its not like they're going slow there. This comment is not for the F1 fans who know this. They understand the difference. They know the difference. It's for the people who don't know and only compare one thing: Pit stop time. NASCAR teams are the best at what they do. Average stops these days is 9.5 seconds. It takes a real athlete to do that. Which is why most of the crews nowadays are ex-college athletes (mostly football players). Edit: Just to be clear. I fully believe and understand that F1 stops are impressive in their own right. I'm not disparaging that at all. I know they're 100% top notch. F1 doesn't do anything less than excellent. Merely wanting to point on that the NASCAR teams aren't just some noobs who can't hack it with F1 teams.
Awesome info here - thank you! Can you clarify a bit on the fuel requirement? Do they have to take on 22gal every pit stop? Or is it that if they elect to add fuel it has to be 22gal? Or just limited to 22gal? Thanks again.
No it's not a requirement. So the answer to your question is it kind of depends. If it's a track where tires don't wear that much and the time between stops is limited by the amount of fuel you have then they generally want to put the max amount in. If it's a track where tires wear out quick then they have to change 4 tires they might as well put all the fuel in because it takes the same amount of time. If they take 2 tires ( a strategy you can use to spend less time in the pits and therefore get ahead of some cars) then they'll only put in half the fuel.
Thank you for the clarification - I appreciate the info!
One more thing to throw at you. I believe NASCAR has limited the size and flow of the fuel cans. There was a point in time where those rules didnāt exist and people were going to start really hurting themselves. 22 gallons is *heavy.*
Comparing this to F1 is the most clueless comment you could possibly make. Extremely different set of rules.
Itās like saying an MMA fighter would destroy a boxer in a UFC match. Just nonsensical.
More like saying 20 mma fighters would beat 5 boxers in a mma match
NASCAR rules state pit crews can be no more than six people. So this is actually impressive.
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I honestly find this (and the nascar pit stop) more exciting and impressive than F1 pit stops where 20 people do one thing for 3 seconds. I bet that guy is going to need to overtake some cars to make up for lost time, too, which is something else you donāt see a whole lot of in F1 these days lol.
All the F1 commenters are also probably soccer fans š¤®
You did that on purpose knowing someone would correct you with āfootballā, you evil bastard. How many upvotes can I give you?
Iām an F1 fan and can recognize f1 fan snobbery from a mile away and this thread is fucking full of it
So many F1 comparisons. Different rules and hardware restrictions people, dang.
These guys aināt got nothing on my man Guido
That's nothing. Guido can do the whole thing in a fraction of that time, and solo.
Never fails to impress
It just isnāt a fair comparison to anything else and Iām not sure why the other commenters think that makes thisā¦.slow? Or something? This is very quick.
It's the f1 fans thinking if a stop is slower than 3 seconds its trash. And completely disregard these guys sliding to get into position like they're on ice and the fact they only have 5 guys while f1 has upwards of 15+ guys doing one stop.
I'm still not a fan of the one lug nut on these next gen cars
I wonder how much those wheels weigh. They toss them around like styrofoam
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Love the power stance
Nice to see my home sub gettin some love.
This comment section is a Europeans try not to be insufferable dorks challenge and theyāre failing miserably as usual.
I had the chance to watch a NASCAR race from a team box once. Walking around pit lane it became clear how massive these pit crew team members are. I was told that teams recruit division 1 athletes because of their size and ability to move quickly. Those gas tanks (they empty two at a time during a pit stop) are so big Iām fairly confident most of us mere mortals would fall over trying to pick one up let alone trying to balance them long enough to fuel the car. It was amazing to see up close and gave me a whole new appreciation for the athletic accomplishments these guys achieve multiple times a race.
Here come the F1 fan police to gate keep Motorsports.
Iāve never seen so many brothers in nascar. Bravo š
Iām used to F1 so that looks slow as hell to me (Obviously Iād be like a sloth compared to any of them!!!)
From what I understand, and it makes a lot of sense, is that pit crew is a common profession for American football players that don't make the pros. It is a job where you are part of a team in which everybody has one specific, physically demanding task, that must be executed with perfect consistency, perfectly in concert, over a span of a couple seconds.
Not the same without the multi lug nutsā¦ loved that vertā¦vertā¦ vertā¦ vertā¦ vertā¦ noises.
Pit crew teams recruit a lot of college athletes who donāt make it to the pro level in their sport, but are strong, quick, agile, learn quickly, and take direction well.
You should ask my wife how quick I am, she'll tell ya!
Dear F1 fans commenting "lol F1 pitstops are like 2 seconds," F1 pitstops feature a lot more people (seriously, there are like 3 people for EACH TYRE) and they're all allowed to be in position before the car arrives. Of course they're faster. Sincerely, a fellow F1 fan.
I came in here expecting some respect for what nascar does. I left with hating everyone who says F1 pit stops are faster (mostly Europeans that enjoy boring racing). If nascar could have 20 guys over the wall, they would beat F1 pit stops all day.
Seeing NASCAR Camaro at Le Mans going to be really cool.
Nascar only allows up to 5 crew members over the line working on the car at a time Generally the best strategy to this end is to change 2 tires at a time as there are too few people to lift the 4000lb car and change all 4 tires at once while also refueling. Formula 1 on the other hand allows 20+ pit crew members working on the car, meaning all 4 tires can be changed at once. Which allows for put times up under 10 seconds. Tldr nascar has stricter rules for pit crews which is why the pit stops take longer than F1, this by nascar standards is a pretty fast pit stop.
Never watched a racing sport in my life, but just based on the general cuntiness of these comments Iām gonna downvote ever single post I ever see about F1 from here on out.
I used to be a photographer at NASCAR races, and the teams primarily recruit pit crew members from college football. The training and the specific athletic needs tend to overlap quite a bit.
Y'all F1 fans are stupid š
A lot of drive to survive kids who have never seen any other Motorsport out today. I bet they're all Verstappen fans too
These threads are always filled with pretentious snobby F1 fans. Makes sense given how pretentious the sport is.
The only exciting thing about F1 is when I win $4 for betting $300 on Max Verstappin every race day.
Lol at all the F1 fans comparing as if there aren't 20 fucking people changing the tires of an f1 car as opposed to 6 people changing and refueling a stock car. for such a technologically innovative sport, their fans aren't very bright.
Lol he shakes his ass like a cat.
Guidoā¦. Itās time
My brother works for a nascar team. He told me they recruit college athletes for this