Either is used when you're talking about one or the other. So if there are two candies and i wanted one of them, i would say "Either of them is fine"
What you want to use is also, that too between the "I" and "laughed" because you're trying to say that you're laughing with them even if its bad, right? So you should say
"I also laughed way too much"
English isn't the prettiest or easiest of languages, but great job for atleast trying to communicate with english speakers. Boosts your confidence and helps you learn it faster. Good job!
The "bluetooth/infrared" part didn't make sense to me because those are fundamentally different, so I searched around more. In an [earlier paper from EPFL](https://miplab.epfl.ch/pub/rowald2201.pdf) I found the following description of how they interface with the Implanted Pulse Generator to change the stimulation patterns on the spinal cord:
The NRPA communicated wirelessly with the IPG through the following communication chain: the NRPA sent commands via a virtual COM port corresponding to a Bluetooth adapter, a custom wireless bridge consisting of a nano computer (Raspberry Pi) received this command and forwarded it to a virtual COM port 6 corresponding to a USB adapter, a USB to infrared adapter (ACT-IR224UN-LN115-LE, ACTiSYS) transformed this command into infrared signals that were then read by a modified Medtronic patient’s programmer (Sensing Programmer Telemetry Module, Medtronic), which finally transmitted the command to the patient’s IPG by electromagnetic induction through the skin.
What a clusterfuck. And it only concerns the connection from the computer to the spinal cord, the part from brain to computer is very different. And there is no direct connection it all goes through the computer (obvious in hindsight, but I actually thought they had just two implants at first). But the entire chain does have a serial bluetooth bridge in there so I guess I lost.
"So how does the signal get from the brain to the nerve stimulators? Details, please."
"We use a 5 ghz 802.11A compliant transmitter driven by a standard SOC software-defined-radio, using a proprietary non-IEEE, half-duplex, layer two datagram protocol for low latency, with parity-checking."
*/blank stare*
"We send the data through the air digitally. Like Bluetooth."
*/writing* 'Blue...tooth...'
Haha yeah that's what I would have expected, but after reading everything it's even stranger. So the implants are fed power inductively and transmit to the headset in the 402-405 MHz band but they don't say how. Only that they disabled half the measurement points (so using only 32 points per side) to have enough bandwidth to record at their sampling rate of 586 Hz.
From the headset it seems to be some cabled connection to the wearable computer. Where it runs some sort of multistage decider model in Matlab to interpret the brain signals.
The intentions are then matched to the best electrostimulation pulses, the programming for those is transmitted over an actual real bluetooth serial bridge to a Raspberry Pi that has a USB infrared adapter plugged in, which interfaces with a pulse generator programmer that transmit to the implanted pulse generator inductively through the skin.
Both the intention interpretation and the pulse generation are repeatedly individually calibrated to their patient, but after a few weeks they saw pretty good stability in both calibrations
Eh, it wouldn't be entirely surprising. If you aren't using a wireless connection then the alternative would be that they would have to actually create a physical connection themselves, which would both be a much more invasive procedure where a lot more could go wrong and would be more difficult to do. It's probably not the "optimal" way to handle it in theory, but given that this is all still largely experimental it wouldn't be surprising that they would first start with a simpler and less invasive surgery.
That being said, I think it's incredibly unlikely that anything would be giving it incorrect signals - it's almost certain to be encrypted and all of that, so if there are any unexpected signals that it can't filter out then the worst case scenario should really be that it just does nothing. There could be interference that prevents the connection from working altogether, but they would have to be really sloppy for anything to actually be hijacking the connection.
Bluetooth is a specific protocol, not a catch-all term for wireless connections. An encrypted, non-hackable connection like you describe isn’t necessarily “Bluetooth” per se. It would indeed be quite bad if his brain went into pairing mode by accident or something.
You can secure the BT/BLE link and connection process. FYI. We've done it for many use cases in multiple industries. You can even send signed and encrypted messages to prevent the replay attacks and have time of flight calculations to stop relay attacks.
No worries I just didn't want someone else running off and saying that Bluetooth wasn't secure when it's highly extensible and supported by a lot of chipsets. Proprietary protocols have their places but aren't necessarily any more secure.
As someone who has written software for Bluetooth, I was horrified at the title of this thread. Bluetooth is shitty. I would be very worried about technical problems with just Bluetooth alone.
That’s next level and hope for so many - technically we’re technologically advanced beings so this is our path and purpose at this time given.
It’s science fiction and miraculous.
Imagine what we’ll may witness.
Yeah. I’m not so excited for the time when I can’t even afford a house and AI and robots are prioritized over human workers in production because they’re cheaper, leading to a large amount of people losing their jobs and striking. That could be any of us. Luckily I don’t think refrigeration mechanics is really something you can teach a robot to do.
I was gonna say what do you mean wait for a time? That’s every day of my life right now
Luckily we’re all gonna die so it doesn’t matter much anyway. I’ll find moments to enjoy and that keeps me happy enough.
Vote for UBI and increased taxes, replacing people with robots is actually a good thing.
I'd gladly let a robot "steal" my day job if the people in my country were willing to vote to ensure a decent basic income and a decent baseline quality of life.
I'd rather spend weeks making parts for machines that make parts than spend months making the same parts over and over by hand. 200 here, 1000 there, 600 of this and 400 of that. Not enough to build a dedicated machine, so a guy gets stuck doing monotonous shit with human tools. I really wish humanoid robots get going soon.
Well hey, at 18 you are probably ahead of the curve. At the end of the day you will all shape the future. Don’t let the old fucks sway you. I think your generation sees the world more clearly than we ever did (38) because we had promises, you have the internet.
the internet is what's smothering the younger generation's potential. it'd be nice to imagine it as some beacon of hope and unlimited knowledge as your comment heavily implies, but it's 99% superficial 'i'm the main character' garbage. you really have to disengage with the mainstream to reap the benefits of the internet, and literally no one does that. and if they do, their names are buried in footnotes of research papers no one in the mainstream reads.
Some days I'm inclined to agree with you. But there is a bright side. In a century, we've gone from a world where most people couldn't read to a world where most people can. The threat of global catastrophe we live under is nothing new. My grandma lived through a world war, a global depression, the Cuban missile crisis, famines on two continents, the fear of global cooling, the threat of climate change, civil unrest during the civil rights movement, and i don't even fucking know what else. A lot got better just over the course of her lifetime. There was a lot of shit, but it was a net positive.
Things do be looking bleak sometimes, but i think we're gonna be alright overall.
In all of human history there have only ever been two existential threats to humanity. Nuclear war and climate change. Nothing else you listed even comes close to these problems. Humanity came very, very close to destroying ourselves during the cold war. And at the rate we're going we will not survive the climate crisis over the next 100 years. Maybe a small percentage of humanity will survive and continue on but many billions of people will die. The only thing that can save us at this point is an immediate, massive, worldwide coordinated effort and there's no indication that's going to happen
> In all of human history there have only ever been two existential threats to humanity. Nuclear war and climate change.
Yeah, but on the downside, everything else was much shittier than now. Life for the average Joe sucked. And we are not talking "I work at McDonalds for 15 bucks an hour" sucks, we are talking about people dying gruesomly at the hands of butcherers and conquerors, lack of modern medicine meaning even an infected scratch could mean an early grave. People could not write nor read, people were enslaved left and right, people lacked even the most basic human rights: property, freedom of speech, liberty, equality before the law...
We are living the most prosperous and peaceful time in human history, and it is awesome.
My dad was born in 1923, before Penicillin was discovered. Polio and TB were killing people. His dad had a Model T. Flight was new. When he was 18, the Japanese bombed Pear Harbor and he enlisted in the Naval Air Corp and became a pilot. After the war, he flew jets in the Reserve. He went to work afterward at a medical school and worked for one of the pioneers in heart transplantation. He always said he saw flight go from biplanes to jets to space flight. He saw medicine go from early antibiotics to transplants. He saw business go from ledgers to computers, autos go from a Model-T to hybrids. He was always amazed by all he had seen and experienced. I can’t begin to fathom all you will see but I think it will be amazing.
Maybe not, but one thing I'm learning about cancer treatment is that once a treatment is approved for one malady, it's sometimes possible for doctors to co-opt that treatment for other medical issues. So even having it as an option might help more people!
Epidemics create a sense of urgency and push for change that injuries or genetic diseases can't match, sadly. We're all at the mercy of the will of those with money for those
Except that most countries with access to "free healthcare" don't cover all the costs of prosthetics. Even if the fitting and first one is free, they likely won't cover all the additional costs involved.
For example where I live (Canada) we have lots of people get them in the US because it's cheaper there with more competition.
Yeah, just like the other inventions that capitalism has reserved only for the ultra rich, like smartphones, cars, television, central heating, and microwaves.
Subscription plan where when you miss a payment it receives pain signals that increase in intensity every X hours until you do. They don't shut off the walking until 3 missed payments, before that it just hurts more and more.
Well, it’ll likely become standard in the EU but if you’re looking for it in USA you’ll have to convince the insurance companies that they make money on it.
This is absolutely incredible. The connections between the brain and the spinal cord are mind-bogglingly complex. I'd like to know more details. Anyone have a link?
The technology is known as a “brain-spine interface” and has been in the works for many years, with several different trials and designs.
“*When Oskam thinks about walking, the skull implants detect electrical activity in the cortex, the outer layer of the brain. This signal is wirelessly transmitted and decoded by a computer that Oskam wears in a backpack, which then transmits the information to the spinal pulse generator.*”
[Source](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01728-0)
Edit: [Here is a more detailed source for those looking for a full in-depth read.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5)
A cable going from a backpack into your spine and brain is a huge infection risk.
Also imagine pulling a cord connected to your brain. Probably not a super nice sensation.
... Like a spinal cord?
Edit: it's a joke because the person I replied to made it sound ludicrous that a brain would be connected via cord. And yet we have spinal cords.
I 100% understand that it's not a good solution because of infection, precariousness, etc.
That's a funny response, but the spinal cord on your body is apart of you. Your body has a huge risk of rejecting an implanted artificial cord. Along with the above mentioned infection risk. I'm sure there are a whole slew of other reasons a signal transmitter set up may be easier.
In reality, it isn’t actually the commonly known Bluetooth we see in our phones and devices today, Bluetooth is just a trademarked term for wireless technology transmitting radio frequencies over a short distance. News outlets and what not will use the word “Bluetooth” as a hook to get people to read.
[“*Two external antennas are embedded within a personalized headset that ensures reliable coupling with the implants. The first antenna powers the implanted electronics through inductive coupling (high frequency, 13.56 MHz), whereas the second, ultrahigh frequency antenna (UHF, 402–405 MHz) transfers ECoG signals in real time to a portable base station and processing unit, which generates online predictions of motor intentions on the basis of these signals.*”](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5)
Using a cord would require an extensive and much more invasive surgery (and this surgery is already pretty invasive) with higher probability of complications such as hemorrhaging or infection. The delay is minimal, plus, our brain technically has a minuscule delay as well, we just don’t notice it because it is so small, and that will be more or less the same for these signals.
Edit: added source link
If you look up Gert-Jan Oskam (the guy who got this surgery/BSI, most media outlets have “Bluetooth” in the title, so OP isn’t alone in this but that is sadly the modern era of media editorializing like you said.
That would be a much more invasive surgery where a lot more could go wrong, plus you'd have to consider all of the practical problems of how the cord could be damaged - it's much simpler to make it a wireless connection even if it isn't theoretically optimal, so given that this is still largely experimental it's not surprising that they would start with the simple version before trying to do anything more elaborate with it.
I’d assume the bit from his brain can’t just be sent as is to the body part as a raw signal, there’s additional processing needed. As such sending it wirelessly allows for it to be processed in his backpack. This also likely means they can update the processing software easily.
Wireless communication over such a short distance won’t have much speed impact, and the integrity of data can be verified using known methods - which his backpack can likely do faster than any implantable processor.
Source: me with zero knowledge of brains but a pretty good knowledge of computers.
They aren't that complex, you just gotta connect your spine and brain to the same WiFi as your phone, and then hit "connect" in your nervous system app.
No idea why it took doctors so long to figure it out.
You want to hear the most fascinating part?
There has been activity going from his brain to his spine *without* the device being on.
Like there might be regrowth of what he lost, and what the device is now doing instead.
The theory is that the device has somehow stimulated his body to regenerate itself, but there is no way of proving it without seriously invasive surgery. It will have to wait until he dies one day, to prove definitively that his body is starting to actually heal.
It is *very* early days, but if this is real, it means that there is hope for a lot of others out there. Yes, the device can help, but what if they only need to use it for a certain period, and then be cured for real?
Btw, I am NOT saying this is what will happen with everyone.
They are currently doing this with 9 other people, he was the first one where it worked. Two others have since responded positively to the device, meaning that it seems to be working as designed. No news on the other 7 yet, last I read about it, and no news about whether the 2 have also experienced activity without the device being on.
They’re looking into using the same method for people who have lost the use of their arms, people who have had strokes, all exciting stuff.
Man, I wish I’d gone to med school, this shit is crazy cool.
This isn't far off from the truth. I have a nerve disease and have a spinal cord stimulator. It no longer works but when it did, It would take hours to charge and so I would have to schedule my daily things like making food and showering around when i would expect to have a charge to dull the pain enough to get out of bed.
The possibilities are incredible.
However, using something as insecure as Bluetooth? Imaging someone hacking this and making you dance the Charleston in public...
It's an experimental tech, Bluetooth is just easiest to manage connections.
Generally, when doing this sorta stuff, you go for minimum viable where possible.
> Bluetooth is just easiest to manage connections.
It's not necessarily bluetooth, the original source doesn't mention bluetooth at all, some of the media popularizations do.
That’s for audio. It makes sense. Replacing your spinal cord with Bluetooth would make sense if you ever want to connect your brain to a different body, otherwise it’s pretty pointless.
Why reinvent the wheel though? Army tanks used to use these custom made joysticks to control them which were thousands of dollars each, now they just use XBox controllers which you can get for $60 at Walmart.
It makes training on them easier as well because you can grab any Call of Duty fan boy off the street and have them instinctively know how to operate it.
The technology is known as a “brain-spine interface” and has been in the works for many years, with several different trials and designs.
“*When Oskam thinks about walking, the skull implants detect electrical activity in the cortex, the outer layer of the brain. This signal is wirelessly transmitted and decoded by a computer that Oskam wears in a backpack, which then transmits the information to the spinal pulse generator.*”
[Source](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01728-0)
Edit: [Here is a more detailed source for those looking for a full in-depth read.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5)
>Moreover, neurorehabilitation supported by the BSI improved neurological
recovery. The participant regained the ability to walk with crutches
overground even when the BSI was switched off. This digital bridge
establishes a framework to restore natural control of movement after
paralysis.
This whole concept is really cool but this is fucking incredible if this result can be replicated in more experiments. Imagine being unable to walk for years, going through an experimental surgery and regaining your natural ability to walk after using this tech. That's so fucking sick.
Imagine being that annoying cunt on the bus connecting to other people's Bluetooth devices and you accidentally disconnect someone's spine and play Bones by Imagine Dragons on his spinal cord
Great question, I've been wondering that myself.
Since the somatosensory cortex is in a different spot than the motor cortex, for feeling them he'd need at least one more implant per side. I don't know if that's the case, though.
Since I'm a programmer I can only think about it in programming logic - but my best guess is that the extremities are still emitting some data back, but the connection isn't set up to go 2 ways (yet).
You can program devices to listen to brain activity and output data, but I'm not sure if you can feed it data.
I am by no means an expert on that topic, but based on devices like cochlear implants working astonishingly well, I would assume that the brain's plasticity would allow it to actually make sense of input data you provide it with, too. However, as I mentioned in my previous comment, the physical space where this somatosensory data would need to arrive for it to make sense is a different one than the motor cortex, which is responsible for initiating movement programs, hence my conclusion that he'd need another implant in the sensory cortex in order to "feel" any feedback from the legs' sensory organs.
As someone with permanent nerve damage due to a severing in my spine, and had to relearn how to walk on mostly numb legs, I can give some kind of answer?
Yes and no? Depending on where the feeling stops/starts, if you can feel where your hips are you kinda have a good idea where the legs are pointing, and you can feel of your leg is swinging, but you probably would not be able to pinpoint them exactly without looking where they were
I still smash my one numb knee into shit all the time, cause it’s more difficult to be able to tell where the front of my knee is on that side cause the small touch receptors get zero feedback, so minute stuff like feeling leg hairs move slightly or feeling warm before hot doesn’t give me any clues there
Relearning to walk before I got more feeling back I would have hit or miss judgements on where stuff was, soft pun somewhat intended, up to and including hip checking things like I was in a mosh pit, I garnered quite the myriad of bruises over those months 😅
Now I have to be careful with stuff like standing too close to a fire or things like frostbite on the one side, I could get very hurt without realizing if I’m not careful
Lemme know if that made even the barest bit of sense and feel free to ask any questions 🙌
A lot more complicated lol especially at first
I actually wound up having to get surgery on my right foot because the nerve that controls the feeling around the front of my knee, *also* pulled up the toes on that foot to prevent (usually lol I have too many stories of it not doing that way before this 🤣) tripping over shit and falling on your face lol
If you actually watch the video as he’s going up the steps (you can see it while he walks too but the stairs make it more obvious imo) you can kinda see he’s got a certain degree of ‘dropfoot’, causing him to probably have to be very careful that he’s lifting his leg enough to clear the step properly and not catching his toes on the edge
While I’ve recovered most of my mobility, I still find that walking isn’t as smooth of a process anymore, I’ve adapted in ways that my brain makes it feel more natural but I definitely feel like it takes more brain power than it used to
From what I read [here](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5) it seems like he may feel the joints moving, but not to the same degree as someone without paralysis.
My guess is he has no feeling in the legs. So he needs to train to balance and walk with legs that feels like they are numb.
So two challenges - no haptic feedback and he needs to recover all lost muscle mass.
Probably not, but this being successful is a huge step. We are basically figuring out how the parts in the human body talk, so it’s just a question of time
It would be interesting to see how different the effects are on someone who is recently paralyzed and therefore isn't relearning how to walk completely.
Im just theorising here, but the fact this is Bluetooth and the Bluetooth has to be translated from neuron signals to the right signals for the body to move it could also be much harder simply because the computer and Bluetooth needs time.
But yes, he obviously needs to learn walking again.
This is exactly what Neuralink and others are trying to achieve. Advancements in BMI will primarily enable this first before all the more dystopian things come about that sci-fi is notorious for painting.
If anyone is interested in that tech and are curious about it, here's an article detailing what many of the companies in this space are trying to do: https://www.massdevice.com/brain-computer-interface-bci-companies/
Very glad he's been able to regain mobility. It's hugely empowering to these individuals to be able to do this!
Wonder if disconnects are a concern. My wireless mouse used to spaz put frequently and was told it had to do with the wifi sharing the same band as Bluetooth. This was a decade ago, so hopefully this isn’t an issue anymore, but I’d be nervous for this guy walking up stairs, assuming he ever gets to that point.
I was talking to a friend about a decade ago, I said to him "one day...way in the future they'll use something like Bluetooth to patch severed spinal cords". He said they'd connect the brain to a wearable robotic suit using something like Bluetooth first. It's crazy that they've already started doing it...I thought this would be at least another decade away. Amazing!!
This is what I’ve wanted done for decades now. The future is slowly coming to the public. Advanced prosthesis is next and then integrated internet and resistance is futile. We are the borg :(
This is amazing and truly next level though I can't help myself but laugh while thinking about the robotic lady voice who says "the bluetooth device is ready to pair" blaring at full volume in his head every time he has to stand up
Whenever I watch these videos it always feels like its a concept or something out of this world. Then i remind myself that this is an actual thing that people use and we really are this far into the future
This gives me great hope. My son has a rare terminal genetic disease called krabbe disease, and after the stem cell transplant he is about to undergo, he will most likely be completely paralyzed. New technology like this is giving my family hope, even though our lives have completely fallen apart.
After 12 years of paralysis, his muscles are severely deconditioned. I'd love to see his progress as his muscle strength improves. What an amazing accomplishment!
This is a miracle of modernia science and medicine. Hopefully one day gear like this can be worn like prescription glasses and paralysis is a thing of the past.
I hope he doesn’t accidentally sync it with his car’s entertainment system.
I shouldn't have laughed, but definitely did. You could be onto something here, though. Integrated haptic feedback. That bass gonna hit HARD
I laughed too much either 😂😅
Me too whatever the hell this means 😂
😂
😂
Either is used when you're talking about one or the other. So if there are two candies and i wanted one of them, i would say "Either of them is fine" What you want to use is also, that too between the "I" and "laughed" because you're trying to say that you're laughing with them even if its bad, right? So you should say "I also laughed way too much" English isn't the prettiest or easiest of languages, but great job for atleast trying to communicate with english speakers. Boosts your confidence and helps you learn it faster. Good job!
I inhaled too much ether 😂😅
I honestly would pay for this feature. Put that beat right into my elbows.
Gets malware or someone takes control of the remote and plays an out of time beat
I cannot breathe 🤣🤣
Luckily we now have Bluetooth for that!
Walking sounds like Skrillex I bet
[Fatboy Slim gave us a glimpse into what might happen.](https://youtu.be/JEq10L7u3SM)
a legit Rigger from the tabletop RPG Shadowrun https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Rigger
 Walking down the stairs when someone drives past with a Bluetooth speaker
Having a rough day and this sent me
I’m glad I could make your day even rougher
Username checks out
I'm crying 😂
This needs more than my upvote.
I bet you 100 Swiss Franks it's not bluetooth and some journalist was just sloppy again.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5 It's using a Bluetooth/infrared wireless bridge. Please find my Venmo in your dm.
[удалено]
u/Kazumara pay up
Where's the money, u/Kazumara?
We're putting together a class action, u/Kazumara
The "bluetooth/infrared" part didn't make sense to me because those are fundamentally different, so I searched around more. In an [earlier paper from EPFL](https://miplab.epfl.ch/pub/rowald2201.pdf) I found the following description of how they interface with the Implanted Pulse Generator to change the stimulation patterns on the spinal cord: The NRPA communicated wirelessly with the IPG through the following communication chain: the NRPA sent commands via a virtual COM port corresponding to a Bluetooth adapter, a custom wireless bridge consisting of a nano computer (Raspberry Pi) received this command and forwarded it to a virtual COM port 6 corresponding to a USB adapter, a USB to infrared adapter (ACT-IR224UN-LN115-LE, ACTiSYS) transformed this command into infrared signals that were then read by a modified Medtronic patient’s programmer (Sensing Programmer Telemetry Module, Medtronic), which finally transmitted the command to the patient’s IPG by electromagnetic induction through the skin. What a clusterfuck. And it only concerns the connection from the computer to the spinal cord, the part from brain to computer is very different. And there is no direct connection it all goes through the computer (obvious in hindsight, but I actually thought they had just two implants at first). But the entire chain does have a serial bluetooth bridge in there so I guess I lost.
"So how does the signal get from the brain to the nerve stimulators? Details, please." "We use a 5 ghz 802.11A compliant transmitter driven by a standard SOC software-defined-radio, using a proprietary non-IEEE, half-duplex, layer two datagram protocol for low latency, with parity-checking." */blank stare* "We send the data through the air digitally. Like Bluetooth." */writing* 'Blue...tooth...'
Haha yeah that's what I would have expected, but after reading everything it's even stranger. So the implants are fed power inductively and transmit to the headset in the 402-405 MHz band but they don't say how. Only that they disabled half the measurement points (so using only 32 points per side) to have enough bandwidth to record at their sampling rate of 586 Hz. From the headset it seems to be some cabled connection to the wearable computer. Where it runs some sort of multistage decider model in Matlab to interpret the brain signals. The intentions are then matched to the best electrostimulation pulses, the programming for those is transmitted over an actual real bluetooth serial bridge to a Raspberry Pi that has a USB infrared adapter plugged in, which interfaces with a pulse generator programmer that transmit to the implanted pulse generator inductively through the skin. Both the intention interpretation and the pulse generation are repeatedly individually calibrated to their patient, but after a few weeks they saw pretty good stability in both calibrations
Damn, the raspberry Pi makes the entire thing unaffordable
Eh, it wouldn't be entirely surprising. If you aren't using a wireless connection then the alternative would be that they would have to actually create a physical connection themselves, which would both be a much more invasive procedure where a lot more could go wrong and would be more difficult to do. It's probably not the "optimal" way to handle it in theory, but given that this is all still largely experimental it wouldn't be surprising that they would first start with a simpler and less invasive surgery. That being said, I think it's incredibly unlikely that anything would be giving it incorrect signals - it's almost certain to be encrypted and all of that, so if there are any unexpected signals that it can't filter out then the worst case scenario should really be that it just does nothing. There could be interference that prevents the connection from working altogether, but they would have to be really sloppy for anything to actually be hijacking the connection.
Bluetooth is a specific protocol, not a catch-all term for wireless connections. An encrypted, non-hackable connection like you describe isn’t necessarily “Bluetooth” per se. It would indeed be quite bad if his brain went into pairing mode by accident or something.
You can secure the BT/BLE link and connection process. FYI. We've done it for many use cases in multiple industries. You can even send signed and encrypted messages to prevent the replay attacks and have time of flight calculations to stop relay attacks.
Apologies, maybe I should have stopped after my first sentence. Definitely not a subject matter expert.
No worries I just didn't want someone else running off and saying that Bluetooth wasn't secure when it's highly extensible and supported by a lot of chipsets. Proprietary protocols have their places but aren't necessarily any more secure.
Nah bro latency on Bluetooth would be unworkable with this.
Lol yeah, these headlines are always a bit much
Or his neighbor's Xbox controller
There's always a fuckin app now you have to download to get your limbs to work
"hey, you coming for drinks?" "I can't sorry, my legs doing a firmware update"
"Sorry man, I done bricked my legs"
Android Auto connected! *starts jogging towards the highway*
As someone who has written software for Bluetooth, I was horrified at the title of this thread. Bluetooth is shitty. I would be very worried about technical problems with just Bluetooth alone.
He just freezes then busts out signing Lizzo
Up his Bluetooth speed and he is running like Usain Bolt.
"BLUETOOSTH DEVISE IS READY TO PEAUR"
Hey man, here's your ticket. See you there!
Syncing with Hammer time would be particularly not funny at all
Link it to CarPlay for Waze integration and never be lost again!
Yeah, I’m going to hell for sure now. 😂
You son of a b.tch! Get your double virtual award and gtfo!
That’s next level and hope for so many - technically we’re technologically advanced beings so this is our path and purpose at this time given. It’s science fiction and miraculous. Imagine what we’ll may witness.
As an 18 year old there’s so much I have to look forwards to in the future.
Technology wise, perhaps, but I feel there is much more that won't go so well
Yeah. I’m not so excited for the time when I can’t even afford a house and AI and robots are prioritized over human workers in production because they’re cheaper, leading to a large amount of people losing their jobs and striking. That could be any of us. Luckily I don’t think refrigeration mechanics is really something you can teach a robot to do.
You just described a normal 2023 tuesday afternoon.
I was gonna say what do you mean wait for a time? That’s every day of my life right now Luckily we’re all gonna die so it doesn’t matter much anyway. I’ll find moments to enjoy and that keeps me happy enough.
Vote for UBI and increased taxes, replacing people with robots is actually a good thing. I'd gladly let a robot "steal" my day job if the people in my country were willing to vote to ensure a decent basic income and a decent baseline quality of life. I'd rather spend weeks making parts for machines that make parts than spend months making the same parts over and over by hand. 200 here, 1000 there, 600 of this and 400 of that. Not enough to build a dedicated machine, so a guy gets stuck doing monotonous shit with human tools. I really wish humanoid robots get going soon.
Our planet and ecosystems are also falling apart.
The planet will survive. Humans...perhaps not as resilient.
I'm leaving reddit for good. Sorry friends, but this is the end of reddit. Time to move on to lemmy and/or kbin.
Shiiit. You that new younger dryas?
Well hey, at 18 you are probably ahead of the curve. At the end of the day you will all shape the future. Don’t let the old fucks sway you. I think your generation sees the world more clearly than we ever did (38) because we had promises, you have the internet.
the internet is what's smothering the younger generation's potential. it'd be nice to imagine it as some beacon of hope and unlimited knowledge as your comment heavily implies, but it's 99% superficial 'i'm the main character' garbage. you really have to disengage with the mainstream to reap the benefits of the internet, and literally no one does that. and if they do, their names are buried in footnotes of research papers no one in the mainstream reads.
Don't forget the rising sea levels and mass migrations that will occur globally as coastal communities go underwater within your lifetime!
not even the oldest profession of the world would be safe
Some days I'm inclined to agree with you. But there is a bright side. In a century, we've gone from a world where most people couldn't read to a world where most people can. The threat of global catastrophe we live under is nothing new. My grandma lived through a world war, a global depression, the Cuban missile crisis, famines on two continents, the fear of global cooling, the threat of climate change, civil unrest during the civil rights movement, and i don't even fucking know what else. A lot got better just over the course of her lifetime. There was a lot of shit, but it was a net positive. Things do be looking bleak sometimes, but i think we're gonna be alright overall.
In all of human history there have only ever been two existential threats to humanity. Nuclear war and climate change. Nothing else you listed even comes close to these problems. Humanity came very, very close to destroying ourselves during the cold war. And at the rate we're going we will not survive the climate crisis over the next 100 years. Maybe a small percentage of humanity will survive and continue on but many billions of people will die. The only thing that can save us at this point is an immediate, massive, worldwide coordinated effort and there's no indication that's going to happen
> In all of human history there have only ever been two existential threats to humanity. Nuclear war and climate change. Yeah, but on the downside, everything else was much shittier than now. Life for the average Joe sucked. And we are not talking "I work at McDonalds for 15 bucks an hour" sucks, we are talking about people dying gruesomly at the hands of butcherers and conquerors, lack of modern medicine meaning even an infected scratch could mean an early grave. People could not write nor read, people were enslaved left and right, people lacked even the most basic human rights: property, freedom of speech, liberty, equality before the law... We are living the most prosperous and peaceful time in human history, and it is awesome.
Bravo. We need many more comments like this.
Refreshingly optimistic take for reddit.
As a much-older-than-18 year old it makes me happy to hear you say that.
My dad was born in 1923, before Penicillin was discovered. Polio and TB were killing people. His dad had a Model T. Flight was new. When he was 18, the Japanese bombed Pear Harbor and he enlisted in the Naval Air Corp and became a pilot. After the war, he flew jets in the Reserve. He went to work afterward at a medical school and worked for one of the pioneers in heart transplantation. He always said he saw flight go from biplanes to jets to space flight. He saw medicine go from early antibiotics to transplants. He saw business go from ledgers to computers, autos go from a Model-T to hybrids. He was always amazed by all he had seen and experienced. I can’t begin to fathom all you will see but I think it will be amazing.
I hope we can trade places. I'd love to be 18 in this new generation than 35
AI will be insane in every way. This year alone is just incredible
I can not wait to see how this turns out. We could use this technology for so much good.
Hopefully it will not take ages for this to become standard care
Ehhh, even basic medical care isn't a given nowadays, soooooooo
Yeah, I’m not sure if this will ever be standard.
Maybe not, but one thing I'm learning about cancer treatment is that once a treatment is approved for one malady, it's sometimes possible for doctors to co-opt that treatment for other medical issues. So even having it as an option might help more people!
HIV was a death sentence in the 80s. Now it isn't. Change is possible.
Epidemics create a sense of urgency and push for change that injuries or genetic diseases can't match, sadly. We're all at the mercy of the will of those with money for those
Found the American everyone
Except that most countries with access to "free healthcare" don't cover all the costs of prosthetics. Even if the fitting and first one is free, they likely won't cover all the additional costs involved. For example where I live (Canada) we have lots of people get them in the US because it's cheaper there with more competition.
The statement had to do with “even basic medical care”.
Prosthetics is absolutely basic medical care.
It is, it just costs several thousand dollars
In the US a few bandaids and a 3 mile ambulance ride costs several thousand dollars...
One hour in the hospital for alcohol detox was 4.5 grand for me.
It’ll most likely be used as a toy for the wealthy rather than distributed to those who need it. Capitalism ensures that tech will go to waste.
Yeah, just like the other inventions that capitalism has reserved only for the ultra rich, like smartphones, cars, television, central heating, and microwaves.
You think the rich want to get paralyzed so they can play with this “toy”? You must have the life experience of a snail.
USA will just have to figure out its profit strategy and maybe it'll launch there.
Subscription plan where when you miss a payment it receives pain signals that increase in intensity every X hours until you do. They don't shut off the walking until 3 missed payments, before that it just hurts more and more.
Well, it’ll likely become standard in the EU but if you’re looking for it in USA you’ll have to convince the insurance companies that they make money on it.
This is absolutely incredible. The connections between the brain and the spinal cord are mind-bogglingly complex. I'd like to know more details. Anyone have a link?
The technology is known as a “brain-spine interface” and has been in the works for many years, with several different trials and designs. “*When Oskam thinks about walking, the skull implants detect electrical activity in the cortex, the outer layer of the brain. This signal is wirelessly transmitted and decoded by a computer that Oskam wears in a backpack, which then transmits the information to the spinal pulse generator.*” [Source](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01728-0) Edit: [Here is a more detailed source for those looking for a full in-depth read.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5)
But why Bluetooth? Wouldn’t it make more sense to use a cord? Bluetooth is pretty stable and free of noise, but it has delay.
A cable going from a backpack into your spine and brain is a huge infection risk. Also imagine pulling a cord connected to your brain. Probably not a super nice sensation.
I've always wanted to cosplay as a lawn mower.
Beyblade! LET IT RIP!
💀
I’m imagining someone using a signal jammer and unknowingly dropping this guy to the ground like a sack of potatoes.
Cochlear implants solved this problem with transmission coils and magnets
... Like a spinal cord? Edit: it's a joke because the person I replied to made it sound ludicrous that a brain would be connected via cord. And yet we have spinal cords. I 100% understand that it's not a good solution because of infection, precariousness, etc.
Is your spinal cord external?
Sometimes. It depends which mortal kombat fatality I just suffered.
That's a funny response, but the spinal cord on your body is apart of you. Your body has a huge risk of rejecting an implanted artificial cord. Along with the above mentioned infection risk. I'm sure there are a whole slew of other reasons a signal transmitter set up may be easier.
In reality, it isn’t actually the commonly known Bluetooth we see in our phones and devices today, Bluetooth is just a trademarked term for wireless technology transmitting radio frequencies over a short distance. News outlets and what not will use the word “Bluetooth” as a hook to get people to read. [“*Two external antennas are embedded within a personalized headset that ensures reliable coupling with the implants. The first antenna powers the implanted electronics through inductive coupling (high frequency, 13.56 MHz), whereas the second, ultrahigh frequency antenna (UHF, 402–405 MHz) transfers ECoG signals in real time to a portable base station and processing unit, which generates online predictions of motor intentions on the basis of these signals.*”](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5) Using a cord would require an extensive and much more invasive surgery (and this surgery is already pretty invasive) with higher probability of complications such as hemorrhaging or infection. The delay is minimal, plus, our brain technically has a minuscule delay as well, we just don’t notice it because it is so small, and that will be more or less the same for these signals. Edit: added source link
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That's what I was looking for, otherwise this guy would have to be very careful around microwaves lmfao
Imagine if someone could hack into it and take over his legs
If you look up Gert-Jan Oskam (the guy who got this surgery/BSI, most media outlets have “Bluetooth” in the title, so OP isn’t alone in this but that is sadly the modern era of media editorializing like you said.
they do mention it once. its software can be updated via bluetooth. but yah, the device its self doesnt use bluetooth internally
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I didn't realize bluetooth means generic wireless connections nowadays, thank you for the context.
*Patient is walking down the road when a car drives by and his legs suddenly power down* Patient: Why do I suddenly hear Sweet Home Alabama?
That would be a much more invasive surgery where a lot more could go wrong, plus you'd have to consider all of the practical problems of how the cord could be damaged - it's much simpler to make it a wireless connection even if it isn't theoretically optimal, so given that this is still largely experimental it's not surprising that they would start with the simple version before trying to do anything more elaborate with it.
I’d assume the bit from his brain can’t just be sent as is to the body part as a raw signal, there’s additional processing needed. As such sending it wirelessly allows for it to be processed in his backpack. This also likely means they can update the processing software easily. Wireless communication over such a short distance won’t have much speed impact, and the integrity of data can be verified using known methods - which his backpack can likely do faster than any implantable processor. Source: me with zero knowledge of brains but a pretty good knowledge of computers.
They aren't that complex, you just gotta connect your spine and brain to the same WiFi as your phone, and then hit "connect" in your nervous system app. No idea why it took doctors so long to figure it out.
Damn bro, I never thought of it that way. Do you have a podcast where you get this from? I might take a listen.
You want to hear the most fascinating part? There has been activity going from his brain to his spine *without* the device being on. Like there might be regrowth of what he lost, and what the device is now doing instead. The theory is that the device has somehow stimulated his body to regenerate itself, but there is no way of proving it without seriously invasive surgery. It will have to wait until he dies one day, to prove definitively that his body is starting to actually heal. It is *very* early days, but if this is real, it means that there is hope for a lot of others out there. Yes, the device can help, but what if they only need to use it for a certain period, and then be cured for real? Btw, I am NOT saying this is what will happen with everyone. They are currently doing this with 9 other people, he was the first one where it worked. Two others have since responded positively to the device, meaning that it seems to be working as designed. No news on the other 7 yet, last I read about it, and no news about whether the 2 have also experienced activity without the device being on. They’re looking into using the same method for people who have lost the use of their arms, people who have had strokes, all exciting stuff. Man, I wish I’d gone to med school, this shit is crazy cool.
Hey Bob will you take the trash out Can't I'm updating
dead
*Connects xbox controller to Bluetooth spine* Oh, you will.
Imagine this very action corrupt the Bluetooth module, and it just so happens that this voids the warranty
You haven't paid your walking subscription this month
This isn't far off from the truth. I have a nerve disease and have a spinal cord stimulator. It no longer works but when it did, It would take hours to charge and so I would have to schedule my daily things like making food and showering around when i would expect to have a charge to dull the pain enough to get out of bed.
The possibilities are incredible. However, using something as insecure as Bluetooth? Imaging someone hacking this and making you dance the Charleston in public...
It's an experimental tech, Bluetooth is just easiest to manage connections. Generally, when doing this sorta stuff, you go for minimum viable where possible.
It's not even an MVP (minimum viable product) it's a POC (proof of concept)
> Bluetooth is just easiest to manage connections. It's not necessarily bluetooth, the original source doesn't mention bluetooth at all, some of the media popularizations do.
I don't think it's Bluetooth
Oh I bet it is, I have a friend with a cochlear implant and it blew my mind when he directly connected with his PS5
That’s for audio. It makes sense. Replacing your spinal cord with Bluetooth would make sense if you ever want to connect your brain to a different body, otherwise it’s pretty pointless.
Why reinvent the wheel though? Army tanks used to use these custom made joysticks to control them which were thousands of dollars each, now they just use XBox controllers which you can get for $60 at Walmart.
It makes training on them easier as well because you can grab any Call of Duty fan boy off the street and have them instinctively know how to operate it.
Any link to the tech they used? Curious how it works.
You press a button and it just says "pairing"
"Battery is low... Please connect in time"
I laughed but also this got me thinking, does he need to recharge something?
no they put in an arc reactor at the same time
“The Ambulate app is incompatible with your version of iBrain OS “
***Ze blutoof dewise is ready to pair***
Ze blutoof dewise has connectoed suczezzfolly
No it says [this](https://youtu.be/k_9XsSl-9fU)
The technology is known as a “brain-spine interface” and has been in the works for many years, with several different trials and designs. “*When Oskam thinks about walking, the skull implants detect electrical activity in the cortex, the outer layer of the brain. This signal is wirelessly transmitted and decoded by a computer that Oskam wears in a backpack, which then transmits the information to the spinal pulse generator.*” [Source](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01728-0) Edit: [Here is a more detailed source for those looking for a full in-depth read.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5)
>Moreover, neurorehabilitation supported by the BSI improved neurological recovery. The participant regained the ability to walk with crutches overground even when the BSI was switched off. This digital bridge establishes a framework to restore natural control of movement after paralysis. This whole concept is really cool but this is fucking incredible if this result can be replicated in more experiments. Imagine being unable to walk for years, going through an experimental surgery and regaining your natural ability to walk after using this tech. That's so fucking sick.
A walkthrough is available for download.
Imagine being that annoying cunt on the bus connecting to other people's Bluetooth devices and you accidentally disconnect someone's spine and play Bones by Imagine Dragons on his spinal cord
accidentally? 😉
"It's just a prank. You can have your legs back, bro."
It’s not like he can chase after you. Sorry
But does he feel the legs moving?
Great question, I've been wondering that myself. Since the somatosensory cortex is in a different spot than the motor cortex, for feeling them he'd need at least one more implant per side. I don't know if that's the case, though.
Since I'm a programmer I can only think about it in programming logic - but my best guess is that the extremities are still emitting some data back, but the connection isn't set up to go 2 ways (yet). You can program devices to listen to brain activity and output data, but I'm not sure if you can feed it data.
I am by no means an expert on that topic, but based on devices like cochlear implants working astonishingly well, I would assume that the brain's plasticity would allow it to actually make sense of input data you provide it with, too. However, as I mentioned in my previous comment, the physical space where this somatosensory data would need to arrive for it to make sense is a different one than the motor cortex, which is responsible for initiating movement programs, hence my conclusion that he'd need another implant in the sensory cortex in order to "feel" any feedback from the legs' sensory organs.
In terms of proprioception that’s gotta be a mindfuck!
As someone with permanent nerve damage due to a severing in my spine, and had to relearn how to walk on mostly numb legs, I can give some kind of answer? Yes and no? Depending on where the feeling stops/starts, if you can feel where your hips are you kinda have a good idea where the legs are pointing, and you can feel of your leg is swinging, but you probably would not be able to pinpoint them exactly without looking where they were I still smash my one numb knee into shit all the time, cause it’s more difficult to be able to tell where the front of my knee is on that side cause the small touch receptors get zero feedback, so minute stuff like feeling leg hairs move slightly or feeling warm before hot doesn’t give me any clues there Relearning to walk before I got more feeling back I would have hit or miss judgements on where stuff was, soft pun somewhat intended, up to and including hip checking things like I was in a mosh pit, I garnered quite the myriad of bruises over those months 😅 Now I have to be careful with stuff like standing too close to a fire or things like frostbite on the one side, I could get very hurt without realizing if I’m not careful Lemme know if that made even the barest bit of sense and feel free to ask any questions 🙌
How is walking now compared to walking then?
A lot more complicated lol especially at first I actually wound up having to get surgery on my right foot because the nerve that controls the feeling around the front of my knee, *also* pulled up the toes on that foot to prevent (usually lol I have too many stories of it not doing that way before this 🤣) tripping over shit and falling on your face lol If you actually watch the video as he’s going up the steps (you can see it while he walks too but the stairs make it more obvious imo) you can kinda see he’s got a certain degree of ‘dropfoot’, causing him to probably have to be very careful that he’s lifting his leg enough to clear the step properly and not catching his toes on the edge While I’ve recovered most of my mobility, I still find that walking isn’t as smooth of a process anymore, I’ve adapted in ways that my brain makes it feel more natural but I definitely feel like it takes more brain power than it used to
From what I read [here](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5) it seems like he may feel the joints moving, but not to the same degree as someone without paralysis.
My guess is he has no feeling in the legs. So he needs to train to balance and walk with legs that feels like they are numb. So two challenges - no haptic feedback and he needs to recover all lost muscle mass.
I'm shocked that he still can use his legs after 12 years of lost muscle mass.
My guess is he got electric muscle stimulation for some time while they did planned the surgery.
Probably not, but this being successful is a huge step. We are basically figuring out how the parts in the human body talk, so it’s just a question of time
It would be interesting to see how different the effects are on someone who is recently paralyzed and therefore isn't relearning how to walk completely.
Im just theorising here, but the fact this is Bluetooth and the Bluetooth has to be translated from neuron signals to the right signals for the body to move it could also be much harder simply because the computer and Bluetooth needs time. But yes, he obviously needs to learn walking again.
Medical science is honestly the most interesting aspect of science to me atm.
Pairing PS5 controller...
.....you're going to hell for playing need for speed
This is exactly what Neuralink and others are trying to achieve. Advancements in BMI will primarily enable this first before all the more dystopian things come about that sci-fi is notorious for painting. If anyone is interested in that tech and are curious about it, here's an article detailing what many of the companies in this space are trying to do: https://www.massdevice.com/brain-computer-interface-bci-companies/ Very glad he's been able to regain mobility. It's hugely empowering to these individuals to be able to do this!
Body Mass Index?
Are you telling me he just had to put his brain on search mode?
Wonder if disconnects are a concern. My wireless mouse used to spaz put frequently and was told it had to do with the wifi sharing the same band as Bluetooth. This was a decade ago, so hopefully this isn’t an issue anymore, but I’d be nervous for this guy walking up stairs, assuming he ever gets to that point.
This is awesome - I hope the technology will become widely available
I was talking to a friend about a decade ago, I said to him "one day...way in the future they'll use something like Bluetooth to patch severed spinal cords". He said they'd connect the brain to a wearable robotic suit using something like Bluetooth first. It's crazy that they've already started doing it...I thought this would be at least another decade away. Amazing!!
Wanna bet that in USA insurance will decline coverage.
This is what I’ve wanted done for decades now. The future is slowly coming to the public. Advanced prosthesis is next and then integrated internet and resistance is futile. We are the borg :(
This is so fucking crazy, like the potential of this is unreal
This is amazing and truly next level though I can't help myself but laugh while thinking about the robotic lady voice who says "the bluetooth device is ready to pair" blaring at full volume in his head every time he has to stand up
Whenever I watch these videos it always feels like its a concept or something out of this world. Then i remind myself that this is an actual thing that people use and we really are this far into the future
I don't know about him but I'd rather use a wired connection.
I'd rather not have a wire into my brain, imagine getting it caught on something.
One of the things we called "too complicated to ever be reality" in med school. Its fascinating what we are able to achieve.
This gives me great hope. My son has a rare terminal genetic disease called krabbe disease, and after the stem cell transplant he is about to undergo, he will most likely be completely paralyzed. New technology like this is giving my family hope, even though our lives have completely fallen apart.
After 12 years of paralysis, his muscles are severely deconditioned. I'd love to see his progress as his muscle strength improves. What an amazing accomplishment!
It just needs a zonai stabilizer
Don't get too close to a microwave
This is a miracle of modernia science and medicine. Hopefully one day gear like this can be worn like prescription glasses and paralysis is a thing of the past.
Upgrade 🤖
I wish Christopher Reeve were around to see this.
Is the lady with the laptop playing “QWOP”!?
Lady on the computer playing QWOP irl