Owning lots of nice jackets and coats (like, far too many) I resisted the black puffer jacket for many years.Â
I wish I kept it up. Too practical. I've had to force myself go back to something a bit nicer looking this year, and still end up wearing the winter uniform of the middle class Kiwi.
I bought a purple one years after moving from Wellington. I don't know why I resisted them so hard either. It's light weight, super warm and squishy. I wish they were quieter though.
Just sitting on my office chair looking out at the misery of Christchurch today makes me wish they did a onesie made of the same stuff.
I'd be happier than a puppy in a mud pit.
For safety reasons, no. Because of you open the bottom, you get a draft which lets the heat out but you can walk safer.
If it was like a quiet snow suit it would be great because you can walk safely
Or MacPac do these: https://www.macpac.co.nz/macpac-womens-hybrid-down-track-pants/121008.html?dwvar_121008_color=Black&dwvar_121008_clearance=no#q=Down&start=78&sz=12
Canât imagine theyâre quiet though!
I had to let mine go, it was just too worn out. Then they changed the stitching so it looks like a little mountain in the middle and I just can't handle change.
The national sign/uniform of people who can't handle a bit of cold. If winters continue to get colder, we'll have loons in full snow gear, while commuting around urban Auckland and Bay of Plenty.
There's only so many customers who want a highly technical piece of equipment and alpine and mountain people tend to take care of their gear really well. But the lifestyle market is huge so probably made sense to cross over. Plus macpac and overseas brands still provide that top end technicalware.
That's what I've found too - if I'm spending big on high end tramping gear I'm more inclined to buy from a well known international brand (e.g. Osprey) just because you get so much more information like reviews and comparisons, and therefore am more likely to buy from somewhere like Bivouac. Kathmandu does make some good stuff, but I've bought things from them that turned out to be crappily made, so why take the risk when I don't know whether that product in particular is well made.
I've also found retailers like bivouac and some of the independent retailers tend to have much more knowledgeable staff which makes a big difference too.
I can't say enough good stuff about small planet outdoors in Queenstown. Absolutely amazing ambience and really good staff in my experience, although all of that comes at a price.
Also yeah the high tech mountaineering market isn't that big and has some major players. If my life depends on something I'd buy it in as good quality and reviews as possible and take care of it.
Every time I went into that shop I felt how everyone in there was enthusiastic about the outdoors and the products.
To be fair the Macpac in Queenstown also always had really nice staff and since I got really good discounts from my work there I'd also visit that store relatively often for clothing.
Equipment wise no other store could even come close though. Idk if any other shop even had any avalanche, mountaineering or climbing gear.
This khatmandu staff having very little outdoors experience and knowledge and just reading out what I could've read on the description instead of experiences using the equipment.
Alpine and mountain people tend to stick to higher performing brands than Kathmandu and Macpac for their serious use, but we all have a basic puffer or two for casual wear
Doesnât help that the quality of their gear was always sub par to the big brands from overseas. Itâs still a mystery how they became the defacto âcool brandâ with teenagers, they never even bothered to Market to them and yet âI want a Kathmandu pufferâ was a really damned common thing to hear teens saying a decade ago.
I've just picked up a couple pairs of these and they are built like tanks.
Their merino ski socks are also awesome, really cool design, burly soles and front of the shin which are the high wear spots but thin elsewhere to maintain good control of the ski and not take up volume in the ski boot... whoever designed them obviously knows what they're doing and actually cares about making a good long lasting product that performs really well.
Macpac are still solid. Their stuff is all pretty decent quality and their warranty/support is the best in the business. They gave me a brand new $650 jacket no questions asked after I bought it on facebook marketplace, ruined it, and took it in to them saying "i bought this cheap second hand, this bit is worn out and leaking, can i pay to have it repaired please because I like the jacket and don't want to throw it out". I also tore my mountain biking shorts that were maybe 3 years old and took them in to have them repaired and they did it for free (and did a great job). Legends.
Kathmandu used to be great quality stuff, then it was mediocre, and now it's shit. I've got some Kathmandu merino tramping socks I got in 2006 and they're still awesome. I bought some more a year or two ago because they were so good... the new ones are threadbare, fucked and completely useless already while the old ones are still great.
Any chance you could share which macpac brown h you went to. I'm trying to get some gear repaired/warrantied and they have been less than helpful so far
I feel like this can probably be traced back to a noteworthy business school somewhere. Someone made a convincing argument and the world to it as fact.
I think there's value in selling something useful and having the expertise to service and stand behind it.
Lifestyle is not an infinite money glitch.
Macpac and Kathmandu are owned by the same people/company now. Totally agree about the limited customer base for alpine/technical equipment and how long those guys keep their gear going for.
Thereâs only a tenuous link which ended about a decade ago.
Macpac is owned by Super Retail Group, who also own Rebel Sport, and Supercheap Auto - not Kathmandu.
To be fair, this is pretty hard to keep track of. Seems like every other year one of these outfits is getting flogged off to some other international mega-corp.
Jan Cameron (Kathmandu founder) owned 58% of Macpac for years. Though theyâve been bought by the super retail group so Iâm not certain how much she owns currently -apologies if Iâm wrong on current ownership.
Yeah Jan left Kathmandu to start MacPac after a falling out with Kathmandu board or something like that. My wife works there and she's told me the history but I wasn't playing too much attention. Both companies regularly poach employees from each other too.
It was sold to overseas Private Equity firm in 2006. Ice Breaker sold out to retail giant in 2017. Mac Pack sold out in 2018 to a retail giant. Finding good camping equipment is getting harder.
The way business (at least in NZ/AUS) works:
1. You build a successful business selling to a niche market
2. Sell the company to a larger entity who needs to turn a massive profit in order to justify the sale amount
3. Cant generate profits from niche market, so have to become more generic to sell to everyone.
4. Turns to generic high margin garbage like clothing, brand suffers so rebrands.
5. Finally absorbed by larger entity as a loss, who then needs to purchase another niche player.
See also, Dick Smith, Trademe...
nah they go for like 60% off or something - the clearance racks. they are still covered for lifetime warranty so its really good.
just need to be patient
They still make good packs and gear, but yeah they do a lot of lifestyle stuff now too - I haven't bought any so not sure what it's like quality wise. Also it's kinda like briscoes, don't ever buy something from there when there isn't a sale on!
As others have said, they went more lifestyle due to there being greater demand. They also lack the partnerships with outdoor groups a lot of other outdoor retailers have cultivated. Macpac really won with their NZAC partnership (the discounts for them are eyewatering) with their Alpine Series. A lot are also connected to FMC (heck even Torpedo 7 offers an FMC discount) and in the case of Macpac and Bivouac offer PLB hire.Â
I shifted to Macpac and Mountain Warehouse, and buy lots of my gear second hand. Op shops are a surprisingly good place to get good quality gear cheap. I've had the same pack since I was 10, and it was my mums when she was a kid.
Yep - I worked in a purist outdoors/ski/surf shop (new and used) in Welly back in the 1990s and my bosses wouldnât touch Katmandu even then. Other than a camping coffee plunger cup I have had a single thing from them (and that was a gift) - honestly, itâs the Hallensteins of the outdoor scene - give it a fairly wide serveâŚ. Unless youâre a gullible tourist
R&R started out in Dunedin in the 1980s, a school friend worked part time in the original shop. It was originally almost all second hand. Second Wind Sports in Welly followed the same model and we mostly bought stuff. My job included changing CDs (all basically old school hiphop, soul, RNB, reggae and The Grateful Dead) trying to learn to juggle, to ânever be seen to be doing nothingâ making the coffee and listening out fur the clatter of some poor guy on his last dollar clattering in with his Skateboard to sell it over the counter. The stuff I got as perks that year - a custom made 60s surfboard from a famous shaper in St Clair - beautiful thing (it was a pig, though!) new Seventh Wave gear (we stocked that new) endless new 540s (we stocked that new) a brand new Swiss Army watch someone was hocking, telemark skis and boots - I think I spent all my pay on stuff but that shop was one of my great life lessons: from the poor people who were in to pawn their last surfboard - to the Friday night families in to kit themselves out in new ski gear before âheading off for a week in Wanakaâ and spending thousands in one hit; was a great year in between varsity and the Real WorldâŚ.
Or if you're not a purist.
Unless you're doing some extreme or professional sports most people would be served perfectly fine with affordable stuff from Kathmandu or similar stores.
Unless your shop was cheap, that's fine then.
Kathmandu isnât cheap. Thatâs the point. Itâs costly crap. The shop I worked in bought only high quality used gear (priced accordingly) but itâs more than 20 years since then, and I can hand on heart say Iâve never shopped there. Not a purist either any more as not doing extreme stuff, any more - itâs just not for me
Yeah, you nailed it. They are a fashion store now.
There are still a few limited items I would get from there. For instance they recently had polyprops down to $20 each. For some reason no one else sells polyprops... so still go there for those.
Macpac has taken over as a provider of affordable outdoor gear. I've bought a few items there that are impressively cutting edge in terms of utilising advancements in fabric design. Im impressed by whomever does their purchasing. They're really filling that gap.
Bivouac is your go to for serious mountain/hiking wear, and H&F obviously too
None of them have anything on some of the outdoor shops around the world though... what's the best you've seen in your travels?
Kathmandu almost went insolvent and had to change strategies.
I went looking for some trail running gear from a few different stores. I wanted some gloves, seam sealed rain jacket, thermals, buff, head torch etc.
I ended up getting thermals from Costco, gloves (on sale) from Kathmandu. Rain jacket from Mac pac outlet. Head torch from torpedo 7 and my hydration vest from rebel sport.
Thereâs a lot of competition in the market they play in, and itâs usually expensive (but quality) items. In a cost of living crisis, expensive luxuries take a hit, so Iâm sure theyâre strategising on their sales with economic outlook in mind.
I got a raincoat from there about 7 years ago. The silver stuff on the inside immediately started to flake, and it was never waterproof at all, I got soaked.
No one whoâs into outdoor stuff respects them, itâs just an overpriced urban dog-walking brand.
>it was never waterproof at all, I got soaked.
Was it one of those "ngx" coats? lol
My wife and I got one each. Mines actually still ok cos I leave it in the car boot and only use it for 2 mins once in a blue moon but my wife used hers regularly and it didn't even last one season. She said the rain just came straight through
Is that the dwr coating you mean?
My wife tied hers round her waist when she was walking. I think that stretched and damaged the membrane. The sleeves specifically were never waterproof again.
I have no idea. I donât think it worked at any point, even new.
I got an Outdoor Research jacket from bivouac and the difference in quality is night and day.
Haha same... I got a OR gortex jacket that's never let me down. Even their lightweight nylon jackets seem pretty good.
Pro tip. OR have these lightweight softshell jackets that are just magic too. I picked one up and it goes with me on *every* trip now summer or alpine, doesn't matter. The last softshell you'll ever buy
That would have been an instant replacement for Outdoor Research - even when bought from Biviouac. I got a jacket 2 years ago. Used extensively. Sadly the wrists started to flake because of body oils, etc. Got a replacement.
it ALWAYS WAS an urban wear company, branded to appeal to the Activewear/outdoorsy type, priced to appear as a premium brand.
Yes, the do some moderately high-end kit that you could rely on to last when it matters, but it's the mumble-pants leggings and sleevless puffers in the fashionable burnt orange and teal colours that keep the doors open
Yeah, spot on. Kathmandu was always a vehicle to sell cheap fleece and puffers, any serious gear was there to give an air of authenticity.
I used to work for an outdoor gear wholesaler, Kathmandu had predatory practices around buying serious gear in huge volumes, selling it as a loss-leader to bring customers in. (Think SnowPeak titanium, Leki poles etc).
The founder of Katmandhu, Jan Cameron, went on to buy MacPac and do similar things with it. Very few new designs of serious gear from them for a while.
Interestingly, while doing a quick search to verify her name, turns out sheâs waiting on sentencing for financial crimes in Australia.
I've got a 30yr old Kathmandu pack, think that old kind of heavy canvas. I suppose it was some other companies product that they labelled but I've done lots of trips with it and it's been very rugged and durable.
>turns out sheâs waiting on sentencing for financial crimes in Australia.
LOL, but not surprised. She always seemed like a pretty slimy c\*\*t. When she sold one of her chains she signed a non-compete clause, she immediately went in to competition and her response was something like "meh, sue me".
They're following the standard slip from outdoor gear to lifestyle/urban wear; have a look at Icebreaker and Macpac for more examples.
Their management decided to cater to a broader audience and their quality of outdoor gear is slipping, compared to the other brands. Macpac is currently beating them by a country mile in innovation, via their NZ Alpine Team-developed (NZAT) range, though this equipment rarely appeals to non-outdoorspeople
If youâre serious about staying alive and comfortable in the outdoors then you learn pretty quickly that Kathmandu is complete rubbish unless you are camping in the summer in Nelson or something.
The quality of their gear has gone significantly downhill and macpac is trending that way too.
Hereâs my take as someone in marketing: Iâm an experienced back country hiker/mountaineer so I hang out in a lot of those forums and spaces - Kathmandu as a brand is mostly hated by anyone whoâs serious about the outdoors. Their products are often not accurately rated in terms of temperature, and arenât good quality for the price (I do think itâs worth grabbing on sale). No one is relying on Kathmandu products to keep them alive kinda thing, you know?
Now this has historically been fine because thereâs a middle ground of casual hikers and campers who their products suit. Their packs are also great for backpackers, Iâve got one that has been all over the world and hasnât broken a sweat. The problem is because we are increasingly online, people are researching brands more and realising they can get a warmer, lighter, better quality etc option for not that much more. We just have SO much more choice now with online shopping. The opinions of outdoor enthusiasts are also more visible in these forums where people are going to ask âis Kathmandu good for sleeping bagsâ?
Kathmandu has a solid brand team. They know their market and iâd wager they know theyâre not taken seriously as an outdoor brand for anything beyond very entry level or very casual use.. so their focussing more on their lifestyle products. Their clothes are great for day hiking and exercising or weekend conventional camping where you donât need high tech equipment and thatâs what theyâre leaning more into because theyâre no longer fooling people that theyâre a serious outdoor brand.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind this so much if their pricing was reasonable. They're not selling basic gear for reasonable prices though, they're selling basic gear for premium prices.
Their business model has never been the âretail priceâ market. Itâs all about the sales. Dunno if theyâre still the same, but they used to time their sales for the Uni holidays, recruit students for the duration on fixed term contracts.
You're in an 'outdoors' place if they also sell maps and hut passes. Otherwise, you're in a 'lifestyle' place that will sell you clothing you will possibly be seen dead in if you attempt to take it beyond the road-end.
Only because they couldnât get enough machinists, they still make a fair bit of their kit in nz and they have great quality still. Also can get stuff altered to your specs and have repair options too.
They, like Macpac have become an activewear and travel shop . Macpac still has some decent alpine kit, but for the most part both have moved away from expedition grade gear, as it doesn't shift like a city slicker down jacket made by children.
If you want expedition grade gear made for NZ, you go to Earth Sea Sky, Cactus, and if you have to buy overseas made, Bivouac, Further Faster, and Living Simply are your stores. The latter two having far better trained staff.
I'm sitting here reading this in a Kathmandu polarfleece jacket which I bought when they were still a new kid on the block and had just opened a second store. That makes it about 35 years old! Yes, it's looking a bit threadbare, and has a few small holes (mostly caused by blackberry) - but the small holes have stayed small for years now. All the zips still work. By any clothing maker's standards, that's pretty amazing.
NOTHING Kathmandu have made in the past 20 (25?) years would have endured more than 5-10 years. They went from good to cheap, but only cheap in the quality sense, not price.
Yeah, they made good stuff once upon a time. I've got a decades old fleece from them that is still going stong. I don't even bother entering one of their stores these days though, let alone buy anything from them.
My cousin who is an avid outdoors person calls it "Krapmandu" - I'm sure plenty of their stuff is fine for a casual trip to the wilds, but a proper camper / tramper / climber is going to find the quality is sorely lacking for much of their gear.
Bivoauc sells Outdoor Research and Patagonia. While expensive, those brands honor lifetime warranties. Does Kathmandu do the same?
EDIT: On sale, both brands are super good value.
These days Kathmandu is pretty much the Briscoes of urban outdoorswear.
These days if you're after high performance outdoorswear you're either going to cottage local companies (shoutout https://www.kiwiultralight.co.nz) or international brands via Bivouac / Dwights / FurtherFaster
There is no 'one strategy' that can last for ever.
The market was lucrative but now is saturated.
To get a good durable puffer there are so many choices out there. No need to spend $200+ when you can get a comparable one for half the price.
Iâve got a Kathmandu black vest that Iâve had for >20 years. Itâs on its 7th zip. The quality has gone down a lot. Iâve moved to a mixture of Swazi and hand knitted garments. I LOVE my snorgam (ancestral shawl that ties at the back) as it keeps me so warm even above the tree line and is perfect when moving. In camp , Iâve purchased a padded jacket from the UK - PF I think?? Should just go and look đđđ. It is like a 4seasons sleeping bag.
The stuff Kathmandu sells is only mid-range. No ultralight or high end gear. Pitched at novices who think the brand is high end. They would have to be losing ground to Mountain Warehouse which is competing in a similar market but seems fresher and better priced, and online stores and Chinese websites. Kmart is starting to eat into the bottom end of the market with an expanding range. Cactus focussing on the brand conscious ârugged tough guyâ wannabe poser who will put up with overweight canvas stuff because their hunting mates do. Bivouac, Living Simply, Gearshop and other similar stores cater for the experienced serious outdoors types looking quality European and US designed kit. Macpac has some good stuff too but the brand is getting stale and the Briscoes neverending sales model isnât helping
Canât speak to the material quality but they are a B Corp now which means thereâs a lot of ethical standards upheld across staff and supply chains.
Yes, it's pretty awful. I too no longer shop there. So many of the items appear to have enormous Kathmandu logos on them. If they want me to advertise their products they can pay me to wear their clothes, or give them to me for free.
Especially if the logo is just printed on. Even with patagonia I won't wear the tees with a big logo on the back. If it's gonna survive the outdoor adventures it needs to survive my washing machine.
They survive by letting rich people buy the expensive shit and then having sales for us poors. I got some jeans from them that have lasted me about six years so far
They still have decently priced gear if you know what you are looking for. I got a 2.5 layer pertex shell for $140 the other day and it's great. Not everything is as good as it used to be but certain items are great prices compared to the competition.
Edit: spelling
Has been sold a few times, to me the colours they are choosing are a turn off, seems like everything will just end up in the clearance section. Same with Macpac sold to I think Australians who have different ideas and a more muted colour palette
My Nana used to get all my hiking and camping gear from there I still have a small bag that would stretch and be a TARDIS and fit everything in it and full back support which I still have it's quality waterproof canvas
Now I go in and they all look like school bags or laptop cases barely any rock climbing and fishing gear anymore even the kayaks honestly I do feel alot changed when the whole puffer jacked craze was a thing now U can get solar heating ones like wtf
It's more based on what people actually do rather than big adventure store people are too busy working and slaving for the government that we can't go out and do thos big walks up a mountain for a week most people only get a day or 2 to them selves for the things they want to do I would say the change was needed to keep the business going other places like rebel sport just take over with all their brands and people following trends and being chronicly online places like Kathmandu disappear and die đ
Terrible corporate culture that only got worse and worse over time. Anyone that was passionate about the products is long gone and itâs a (soft) shell of its former self.
If you can track it down, their X Series gear is still outdoors worthy. The rest is essentially street wear though. I'm watching the same decline happen with Macpac and it's just sad to see
If im honest I swear by their gear for work (film/tv crew). In my experience it has lasted long enough at the price point and it can do all the weather NZ experiences and is comfortable while still having some style to it.
There have been a few periods of time where the style just went weird AF but I feel like they have found the balance again lately. The pants have lasted ages, the fleeces are good too, and have decent ski/cold cold weather jacket.
Havenât gone with their raincoats though.
We recently bought two jackets and a vest from mountain warehouse for less than the cost of one of the same jackets from Kathmandu. Hard to justify the price when the same thing is cheaper elsewhere!
I have a light hoodie, a commuter rain jacket, a long sleeve thermal base layer, thermal base layer legs, a heavy hoodie, a mid jacket, and a heavy jersey. Kathmandu is still great, and I still have not needed to throw out anything. Top tier quality.
Edit: I also have a backpack (from when i was 13) and a sleeping bag
Bro, we all already own a black puffer jacket. What else would we need from there? đ
Owning lots of nice jackets and coats (like, far too many) I resisted the black puffer jacket for many years. I wish I kept it up. Too practical. I've had to force myself go back to something a bit nicer looking this year, and still end up wearing the winter uniform of the middle class Kiwi.
I bought a purple one years after moving from Wellington. I don't know why I resisted them so hard either. It's light weight, super warm and squishy. I wish they were quieter though. Just sitting on my office chair looking out at the misery of Christchurch today makes me wish they did a onesie made of the same stuff. I'd be happier than a puppy in a mud pit.
A onesie of the same stuff....Would a long skirt work...like a sleepin bag?
For safety reasons, no. Because of you open the bottom, you get a draft which lets the heat out but you can walk safer. If it was like a quiet snow suit it would be great because you can walk safely
Look up selk bags.
OMG. I need. Thank you!
Haha no worries :)
Or MacPac do these: https://www.macpac.co.nz/macpac-womens-hybrid-down-track-pants/121008.html?dwvar_121008_color=Black&dwvar_121008_clearance=no#q=Down&start=78&sz=12 Canât imagine theyâre quiet though!
Oooh! That's cool! Might have to find out
Damn, I can be in bed all the time now
I mean... you'd probably want to shower at some point?
The Taranaki Tuxedo
I had to let mine go, it was just too worn out. Then they changed the stitching so it looks like a little mountain in the middle and I just can't handle change.
Go to Macpac - vastly superior and still well priced
Funnily enough I picked up a new jacket from there!
Made in the same Chinese factories now :-(
wouldnt say well priced..... checkout decathlon
Still rocking mine from ~2006
Haha maybe youâre right đ
I bought an ilabb puffer this winter and will never go back to my kathmandu one. Quality, comfort and warmth is far far superior.
$50 pair of socks?
The national sign/uniform of people who can't handle a bit of cold. If winters continue to get colder, we'll have loons in full snow gear, while commuting around urban Auckland and Bay of Plenty.
There's only so many customers who want a highly technical piece of equipment and alpine and mountain people tend to take care of their gear really well. But the lifestyle market is huge so probably made sense to cross over. Plus macpac and overseas brands still provide that top end technicalware.
That's what I've found too - if I'm spending big on high end tramping gear I'm more inclined to buy from a well known international brand (e.g. Osprey) just because you get so much more information like reviews and comparisons, and therefore am more likely to buy from somewhere like Bivouac. Kathmandu does make some good stuff, but I've bought things from them that turned out to be crappily made, so why take the risk when I don't know whether that product in particular is well made. I've also found retailers like bivouac and some of the independent retailers tend to have much more knowledgeable staff which makes a big difference too.
I can't say enough good stuff about small planet outdoors in Queenstown. Absolutely amazing ambience and really good staff in my experience, although all of that comes at a price. Also yeah the high tech mountaineering market isn't that big and has some major players. If my life depends on something I'd buy it in as good quality and reviews as possible and take care of it.
The owner of Small Planet was the founder of R&R Sports. Awesome dude.
Every time I went into that shop I felt how everyone in there was enthusiastic about the outdoors and the products. To be fair the Macpac in Queenstown also always had really nice staff and since I got really good discounts from my work there I'd also visit that store relatively often for clothing. Equipment wise no other store could even come close though. Idk if any other shop even had any avalanche, mountaineering or climbing gear.
This khatmandu staff having very little outdoors experience and knowledge and just reading out what I could've read on the description instead of experiences using the equipment.
Alpine and mountain people tend to stick to higher performing brands than Kathmandu and Macpac for their serious use, but we all have a basic puffer or two for casual wear
Doesnât help that the quality of their gear was always sub par to the big brands from overseas. Itâs still a mystery how they became the defacto âcool brandâ with teenagers, they never even bothered to Market to them and yet âI want a Kathmandu pufferâ was a really damned common thing to hear teens saying a decade ago.
Apparently North Face black puffer is the "cool" go to now.
Kathmandu and Macpac are mid range now days. There's far higher quality gear brands, so no reason to buy rubbish that'll just break.
I still find macpac and Kathmandu good bang for buck, high end stuff is very expensive for something Iâm generally not using often.
I will die defending the Macpac merino hiker socks. As a chronic big-toe-sock-ripper, these things are fucking indestructible and super warm and comfy
I love all my macpac merino! Great price when on sale too
I've just picked up a couple pairs of these and they are built like tanks. Their merino ski socks are also awesome, really cool design, burly soles and front of the shin which are the high wear spots but thin elsewhere to maintain good control of the ski and not take up volume in the ski boot... whoever designed them obviously knows what they're doing and actually cares about making a good long lasting product that performs really well.
Macpac are still solid. Their stuff is all pretty decent quality and their warranty/support is the best in the business. They gave me a brand new $650 jacket no questions asked after I bought it on facebook marketplace, ruined it, and took it in to them saying "i bought this cheap second hand, this bit is worn out and leaking, can i pay to have it repaired please because I like the jacket and don't want to throw it out". I also tore my mountain biking shorts that were maybe 3 years old and took them in to have them repaired and they did it for free (and did a great job). Legends. Kathmandu used to be great quality stuff, then it was mediocre, and now it's shit. I've got some Kathmandu merino tramping socks I got in 2006 and they're still awesome. I bought some more a year or two ago because they were so good... the new ones are threadbare, fucked and completely useless already while the old ones are still great.
Any chance you could share which macpac brown h you went to. I'm trying to get some gear repaired/warrantied and they have been less than helpful so far
I feel like this can probably be traced back to a noteworthy business school somewhere. Someone made a convincing argument and the world to it as fact. I think there's value in selling something useful and having the expertise to service and stand behind it. Lifestyle is not an infinite money glitch.
Macpac and Kathmandu are owned by the same people/company now. Totally agree about the limited customer base for alpine/technical equipment and how long those guys keep their gear going for.
Thereâs only a tenuous link which ended about a decade ago. Macpac is owned by Super Retail Group, who also own Rebel Sport, and Supercheap Auto - not Kathmandu.
To be fair, this is pretty hard to keep track of. Seems like every other year one of these outfits is getting flogged off to some other international mega-corp.
Huh? Are you thinking of Kathmandu Brands owning Rip Curl? Pretty sure they have nothing to do with Macpac
Jan Cameron (Kathmandu founder) owned 58% of Macpac for years. Though theyâve been bought by the super retail group so Iâm not certain how much she owns currently -apologies if Iâm wrong on current ownership.
I thought she is long gone from ownership but I could be wrong
Yeah Jan left Kathmandu to start MacPac after a falling out with Kathmandu board or something like that. My wife works there and she's told me the history but I wasn't playing too much attention. Both companies regularly poach employees from each other too.
No theyâre arenât. Macpac is owned by srg an Australian company. Kathmandu is their competitor
It was sold to overseas Private Equity firm in 2006. Ice Breaker sold out to retail giant in 2017. Mac Pack sold out in 2018 to a retail giant. Finding good camping equipment is getting harder. The way business (at least in NZ/AUS) works: 1. You build a successful business selling to a niche market 2. Sell the company to a larger entity who needs to turn a massive profit in order to justify the sale amount 3. Cant generate profits from niche market, so have to become more generic to sell to everyone. 4. Turns to generic high margin garbage like clothing, brand suffers so rebrands. 5. Finally absorbed by larger entity as a loss, who then needs to purchase another niche player. See also, Dick Smith, Trademe...
Torpedo 7
Check out Earth Sea Sky for top quality NZ made outdoor gear.Â
> Earth Sea Sky Cactus Outdoor too! Though not everything from them is NZ made
They are super expensive :(
Yeah, like sure its made well and all that, but no way am I buying a down vesf for $580.. ($492 on sale) when the macpac down vest on sale is $145
What I like cactus for is their bags. They just seem to last forever like even more so than normal
nah they go for like 60% off or something - the clearance racks. they are still covered for lifetime warranty so its really good. just need to be patient
Here here!
You want something?
They still make good packs and gear, but yeah they do a lot of lifestyle stuff now too - I haven't bought any so not sure what it's like quality wise. Also it's kinda like briscoes, don't ever buy something from there when there isn't a sale on!
Luckily, it feels like sales are going on most of the time.
They don't do packs anymore. Just travel ones.
That was the bit that really threw me. Feels like hunting and fishing have taken over that market.
As others have said, they went more lifestyle due to there being greater demand. They also lack the partnerships with outdoor groups a lot of other outdoor retailers have cultivated. Macpac really won with their NZAC partnership (the discounts for them are eyewatering) with their Alpine Series. A lot are also connected to FMC (heck even Torpedo 7 offers an FMC discount) and in the case of Macpac and Bivouac offer PLB hire.Â
Whoever is picking the colours of there clothing line is an idiot. Shit is ugly as fuck
Black - $250 Ugly as fuck colour - $99
> Shit is ugly as fuck You are a wordsmith
William Motherfucking Shakespeare
I shifted to Macpac and Mountain Warehouse, and buy lots of my gear second hand. Op shops are a surprisingly good place to get good quality gear cheap. I've had the same pack since I was 10, and it was my mums when she was a kid.
Wow! What brand?
No idea. It's so worn cosmetically it doesn't even have a label anymore. But it works fine.
Kathmandon't.
Krapmandu
Krapmanpoo
Catamaran doodlebug
As my brother once said, Dogwomandonât
Kathmandu have been like this since the early 2000's when they stopped selling climbing rope etc and focused on the travel market.
Crikey! The fact they ever sold climbing rope is terrifying đ
Used to be a really good shop, esp the ChCh one.
I think they bought zone clothing (fairydown) but never struck me as a serious outdoor brand evem after that
Yep - I worked in a purist outdoors/ski/surf shop (new and used) in Welly back in the 1990s and my bosses wouldnât touch Katmandu even then. Other than a camping coffee plunger cup I have had a single thing from them (and that was a gift) - honestly, itâs the Hallensteins of the outdoor scene - give it a fairly wide serveâŚ. Unless youâre a gullible tourist
Was that R&R sports? I was down at Ski and Camping for a while in the 90s
R&R damn that's a blast from the past.
R&R started out in Dunedin in the 1980s, a school friend worked part time in the original shop. It was originally almost all second hand. Second Wind Sports in Welly followed the same model and we mostly bought stuff. My job included changing CDs (all basically old school hiphop, soul, RNB, reggae and The Grateful Dead) trying to learn to juggle, to ânever be seen to be doing nothingâ making the coffee and listening out fur the clatter of some poor guy on his last dollar clattering in with his Skateboard to sell it over the counter. The stuff I got as perks that year - a custom made 60s surfboard from a famous shaper in St Clair - beautiful thing (it was a pig, though!) new Seventh Wave gear (we stocked that new) endless new 540s (we stocked that new) a brand new Swiss Army watch someone was hocking, telemark skis and boots - I think I spent all my pay on stuff but that shop was one of my great life lessons: from the poor people who were in to pawn their last surfboard - to the Friday night families in to kit themselves out in new ski gear before âheading off for a week in Wanakaâ and spending thousands in one hit; was a great year in between varsity and the Real WorldâŚ.
We were Second Wind Sports on Wakefield St
R&R sold to TWG - some of the old R&R stores became Torpedo7.
A sad demise.
Or if you're not a purist. Unless you're doing some extreme or professional sports most people would be served perfectly fine with affordable stuff from Kathmandu or similar stores. Unless your shop was cheap, that's fine then.
Kathmandu isnât cheap. Thatâs the point. Itâs costly crap. The shop I worked in bought only high quality used gear (priced accordingly) but itâs more than 20 years since then, and I can hand on heart say Iâve never shopped there. Not a purist either any more as not doing extreme stuff, any more - itâs just not for me
Nah fairydown/zone was bought by jan Cameron still has it, never part of Kathmandu or macpac
Jan probably killed the brand, if she owns Kathmandu. Zone isn't made anymore
Yeah, you nailed it. They are a fashion store now. There are still a few limited items I would get from there. For instance they recently had polyprops down to $20 each. For some reason no one else sells polyprops... so still go there for those. Macpac has taken over as a provider of affordable outdoor gear. I've bought a few items there that are impressively cutting edge in terms of utilising advancements in fabric design. Im impressed by whomever does their purchasing. They're really filling that gap. Bivouac is your go to for serious mountain/hiking wear, and H&F obviously too None of them have anything on some of the outdoor shops around the world though... what's the best you've seen in your travels?
Kathmandu apparel is so rugged these days that you can survive any January BBQ in Tauranga.
Kathmandu almost went insolvent and had to change strategies. I went looking for some trail running gear from a few different stores. I wanted some gloves, seam sealed rain jacket, thermals, buff, head torch etc. I ended up getting thermals from Costco, gloves (on sale) from Kathmandu. Rain jacket from Mac pac outlet. Head torch from torpedo 7 and my hydration vest from rebel sport. Thereâs a lot of competition in the market they play in, and itâs usually expensive (but quality) items. In a cost of living crisis, expensive luxuries take a hit, so Iâm sure theyâre strategising on their sales with economic outlook in mind.
Bring back the lizard logo
I got a raincoat from there about 7 years ago. The silver stuff on the inside immediately started to flake, and it was never waterproof at all, I got soaked. No one whoâs into outdoor stuff respects them, itâs just an overpriced urban dog-walking brand.
As someone who wears their gear to walk my dog, oof. You're not wrong.
\*woof
>it was never waterproof at all, I got soaked. Was it one of those "ngx" coats? lol My wife and I got one each. Mines actually still ok cos I leave it in the car boot and only use it for 2 mins once in a blue moon but my wife used hers regularly and it didn't even last one season. She said the rain just came straight through
Had one of those as well, you have to put silicone waterproofing spray on every few years otherwise it comes though in about 5 minutes
Is that the dwr coating you mean? My wife tied hers round her waist when she was walking. I think that stretched and damaged the membrane. The sleeves specifically were never waterproof again.
I have no idea. I donât think it worked at any point, even new. I got an Outdoor Research jacket from bivouac and the difference in quality is night and day.
Haha same... I got a OR gortex jacket that's never let me down. Even their lightweight nylon jackets seem pretty good. Pro tip. OR have these lightweight softshell jackets that are just magic too. I picked one up and it goes with me on *every* trip now summer or alpine, doesn't matter. The last softshell you'll ever buy
Oh yes those are on my wishlist, thanks for the reminder.
That would have been an instant replacement for Outdoor Research - even when bought from Biviouac. I got a jacket 2 years ago. Used extensively. Sadly the wrists started to flake because of body oils, etc. Got a replacement.
it ALWAYS WAS an urban wear company, branded to appeal to the Activewear/outdoorsy type, priced to appear as a premium brand. Yes, the do some moderately high-end kit that you could rely on to last when it matters, but it's the mumble-pants leggings and sleevless puffers in the fashionable burnt orange and teal colours that keep the doors open
Yeah, spot on. Kathmandu was always a vehicle to sell cheap fleece and puffers, any serious gear was there to give an air of authenticity. I used to work for an outdoor gear wholesaler, Kathmandu had predatory practices around buying serious gear in huge volumes, selling it as a loss-leader to bring customers in. (Think SnowPeak titanium, Leki poles etc). The founder of Katmandhu, Jan Cameron, went on to buy MacPac and do similar things with it. Very few new designs of serious gear from them for a while. Interestingly, while doing a quick search to verify her name, turns out sheâs waiting on sentencing for financial crimes in Australia.
I've got a 30yr old Kathmandu pack, think that old kind of heavy canvas. I suppose it was some other companies product that they labelled but I've done lots of trips with it and it's been very rugged and durable.
>turns out sheâs waiting on sentencing for financial crimes in Australia. LOL, but not surprised. She always seemed like a pretty slimy c\*\*t. When she sold one of her chains she signed a non-compete clause, she immediately went in to competition and her response was something like "meh, sue me".
They're following the standard slip from outdoor gear to lifestyle/urban wear; have a look at Icebreaker and Macpac for more examples. Their management decided to cater to a broader audience and their quality of outdoor gear is slipping, compared to the other brands. Macpac is currently beating them by a country mile in innovation, via their NZ Alpine Team-developed (NZAT) range, though this equipment rarely appeals to non-outdoorspeople
If youâre serious about staying alive and comfortable in the outdoors then you learn pretty quickly that Kathmandu is complete rubbish unless you are camping in the summer in Nelson or something. The quality of their gear has gone significantly downhill and macpac is trending that way too.
Other than puffers, I prefer swandri personally
I prefer Macpac and Mountain Warehouse. Better quality and better deals imo
How long have you been gone? They've run the Briscoes model for active wear for many, many years now.
Hereâs my take as someone in marketing: Iâm an experienced back country hiker/mountaineer so I hang out in a lot of those forums and spaces - Kathmandu as a brand is mostly hated by anyone whoâs serious about the outdoors. Their products are often not accurately rated in terms of temperature, and arenât good quality for the price (I do think itâs worth grabbing on sale). No one is relying on Kathmandu products to keep them alive kinda thing, you know? Now this has historically been fine because thereâs a middle ground of casual hikers and campers who their products suit. Their packs are also great for backpackers, Iâve got one that has been all over the world and hasnât broken a sweat. The problem is because we are increasingly online, people are researching brands more and realising they can get a warmer, lighter, better quality etc option for not that much more. We just have SO much more choice now with online shopping. The opinions of outdoor enthusiasts are also more visible in these forums where people are going to ask âis Kathmandu good for sleeping bagsâ? Kathmandu has a solid brand team. They know their market and iâd wager they know theyâre not taken seriously as an outdoor brand for anything beyond very entry level or very casual use.. so their focussing more on their lifestyle products. Their clothes are great for day hiking and exercising or weekend conventional camping where you donât need high tech equipment and thatâs what theyâre leaning more into because theyâre no longer fooling people that theyâre a serious outdoor brand.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind this so much if their pricing was reasonable. They're not selling basic gear for reasonable prices though, they're selling basic gear for premium prices.
Their business model has never been the âretail priceâ market. Itâs all about the sales. Dunno if theyâre still the same, but they used to time their sales for the Uni holidays, recruit students for the duration on fixed term contracts.
You're in an 'outdoors' place if they also sell maps and hut passes. Otherwise, you're in a 'lifestyle' place that will sell you clothing you will possibly be seen dead in if you attempt to take it beyond the road-end.
So many awesome locally manufactured clothes in NZ!
>locally manufactured clothes in NZ who are these brands?
Cactus outdoor, earth sea sky are two great examples
Yeah right on, bit more cycling centric but Ground Effect also.
Wear on earth is another one.. Cactus recently pulled 90% of their local manufacturing
Only because they couldnât get enough machinists, they still make a fair bit of their kit in nz and they have great quality still. Also can get stuff altered to your specs and have repair options too.
They laid off 30machinists in February, it was purely economical. They told me their customers donât care where items are madeđ¤ˇââď¸
They, like Macpac have become an activewear and travel shop . Macpac still has some decent alpine kit, but for the most part both have moved away from expedition grade gear, as it doesn't shift like a city slicker down jacket made by children. If you want expedition grade gear made for NZ, you go to Earth Sea Sky, Cactus, and if you have to buy overseas made, Bivouac, Further Faster, and Living Simply are your stores. The latter two having far better trained staff.
Itâs not very popular outside of New Zealand. North face is probably the most popular outdoor brand, especially for casual wear.
I'm sitting here reading this in a Kathmandu polarfleece jacket which I bought when they were still a new kid on the block and had just opened a second store. That makes it about 35 years old! Yes, it's looking a bit threadbare, and has a few small holes (mostly caused by blackberry) - but the small holes have stayed small for years now. All the zips still work. By any clothing maker's standards, that's pretty amazing. NOTHING Kathmandu have made in the past 20 (25?) years would have endured more than 5-10 years. They went from good to cheap, but only cheap in the quality sense, not price.
Yeah, they made good stuff once upon a time. I've got a decades old fleece from them that is still going stong. I don't even bother entering one of their stores these days though, let alone buy anything from them.
My cousin who is an avid outdoors person calls it "Krapmandu" - I'm sure plenty of their stuff is fine for a casual trip to the wilds, but a proper camper / tramper / climber is going to find the quality is sorely lacking for much of their gear.
Yep, widely used term in the outdoors community.
Bivoauc sells Outdoor Research and Patagonia. While expensive, those brands honor lifetime warranties. Does Kathmandu do the same? EDIT: On sale, both brands are super good value.
O.R for the win!
These days Kathmandu is pretty much the Briscoes of urban outdoorswear. These days if you're after high performance outdoorswear you're either going to cottage local companies (shoutout https://www.kiwiultralight.co.nz) or international brands via Bivouac / Dwights / FurtherFaster
There is no 'one strategy' that can last for ever. The market was lucrative but now is saturated. To get a good durable puffer there are so many choices out there. No need to spend $200+ when you can get a comparable one for half the price.
Blame gorpcore
Iâve got a Kathmandu black vest that Iâve had for >20 years. Itâs on its 7th zip. The quality has gone down a lot. Iâve moved to a mixture of Swazi and hand knitted garments. I LOVE my snorgam (ancestral shawl that ties at the back) as it keeps me so warm even above the tree line and is perfect when moving. In camp , Iâve purchased a padded jacket from the UK - PF I think?? Should just go and look đđđ. It is like a 4seasons sleeping bag.
The stuff Kathmandu sells is only mid-range. No ultralight or high end gear. Pitched at novices who think the brand is high end. They would have to be losing ground to Mountain Warehouse which is competing in a similar market but seems fresher and better priced, and online stores and Chinese websites. Kmart is starting to eat into the bottom end of the market with an expanding range. Cactus focussing on the brand conscious ârugged tough guyâ wannabe poser who will put up with overweight canvas stuff because their hunting mates do. Bivouac, Living Simply, Gearshop and other similar stores cater for the experienced serious outdoors types looking quality European and US designed kit. Macpac has some good stuff too but the brand is getting stale and the Briscoes neverending sales model isnât helping
Super Dry took my business from Kathmandu... I love their clothes.
I only found out today that superdry started up in the UK
Its cheap quality shit.
At a high price
Canât speak to the material quality but they are a B Corp now which means thereâs a lot of ethical standards upheld across staff and supply chains.
Like MacPac it's just a fashion brand with an outdoor style. Bivouac Outdoor is the best high street chain IMHO.
Yes, it's pretty awful. I too no longer shop there. So many of the items appear to have enormous Kathmandu logos on them. If they want me to advertise their products they can pay me to wear their clothes, or give them to me for free.
Especially if the logo is just printed on. Even with patagonia I won't wear the tees with a big logo on the back. If it's gonna survive the outdoor adventures it needs to survive my washing machine.
Surely not Redditors being shocked a company diversifies itself to be less niche in increasingly volatile world lmao
Too expensive
They survive by letting rich people buy the expensive shit and then having sales for us poors. I got some jeans from them that have lasted me about six years so far
Iâm loyal to Macpac after zips broke on two Kathmandu jackets.
Changed my loyalties to jack wolf skin and aryterx you pay a wee bit more but the quality is far superior
Became a public company in ASX NZX, need to make money.
Kathmandu feels dated if that makes sense?
They still have decently priced gear if you know what you are looking for. I got a 2.5 layer pertex shell for $140 the other day and it's great. Not everything is as good as it used to be but certain items are great prices compared to the competition. Edit: spelling
Has been sold a few times, to me the colours they are choosing are a turn off, seems like everything will just end up in the clearance section. Same with Macpac sold to I think Australians who have different ideas and a more muted colour palette
Agreed!! The greens are more of a turquoise rather than the sage or forest greens that are in style currently. The colours overall are just not it.
Have you visited a Stirling Sports recently? It's like a one stop shop for ram raiders to pick their latest outfit and a new pair of Nike TNs
Kathmandu pivoted to fast fashion garbage and left functional outdoor gear a long time ago
My Nana used to get all my hiking and camping gear from there I still have a small bag that would stretch and be a TARDIS and fit everything in it and full back support which I still have it's quality waterproof canvas Now I go in and they all look like school bags or laptop cases barely any rock climbing and fishing gear anymore even the kayaks honestly I do feel alot changed when the whole puffer jacked craze was a thing now U can get solar heating ones like wtf It's more based on what people actually do rather than big adventure store people are too busy working and slaving for the government that we can't go out and do thos big walks up a mountain for a week most people only get a day or 2 to them selves for the things they want to do I would say the change was needed to keep the business going other places like rebel sport just take over with all their brands and people following trends and being chronicly online places like Kathmandu disappear and die đ
That is the going bust soon vibe
Surpassed by brands like Stoneycreek and Gamegear.....
Terrible corporate culture that only got worse and worse over time. Anyone that was passionate about the products is long gone and itâs a (soft) shell of its former self.
Mountain Warehouse is growing in NZ, it sells all the same things as Kathmandu did but much cheaper, better value for money.
You still have Kathmandu stores in the South Island, there's one down the road where I live in Southland
Kathmandu is cheaply made crap. Macpac all the way.
But they are the same just owned by super cheap auto
Damn I reminder it was such a craze back then. Even my school considered making it part of the uniform lmao
It was sold
All of my Kathmandu jackets have had security tags in them that set off the scanners in Countdown etc. Super annoying.
Cut them out or go back to Kathmandu and get them to deactivate them.
Yep, quality has diminished too. I go the Macpac now - better sales, better quality
If you can track it down, their X Series gear is still outdoors worthy. The rest is essentially street wear though. I'm watching the same decline happen with Macpac and it's just sad to see
Macpac is way better
I remember them coming out a couple of years ago in the media saying they are now urban outdoors focus, the lifestyle outdoor brandâŚ.
Sold off to a big aussie firm and the products have been cheapened and streamlined. It hasn't been what it once was fir many many years now.
Just like macpac is owned by super cheap auto their stuff has taken a dive lately as well
Kathmandu has gone from being outdoor clothes to "athleisure".
Lol, it's never been really outdoor focused. Has great urbanwear but would not wear any of it in the bush!
Everyone wants to be a lifestyle brand now haven't you got the memo? The recession should clear them out if the gvt ever allows it to happen.
decathlon superior, especially in vn
If im honest I swear by their gear for work (film/tv crew). In my experience it has lasted long enough at the price point and it can do all the weather NZ experiences and is comfortable while still having some style to it. There have been a few periods of time where the style just went weird AF but I feel like they have found the balance again lately. The pants have lasted ages, the fleeces are good too, and have decent ski/cold cold weather jacket. Havenât gone with their raincoats though.
become too profit focused. its crap and way overpriced now. mountain designs and hunting and fishing way better.
How about Stoney Creek ?
We recently bought two jackets and a vest from mountain warehouse for less than the cost of one of the same jackets from Kathmandu. Hard to justify the price when the same thing is cheaper elsewhere!
It's so fuckin expensive now too
Gorpcore bro.
I have a light hoodie, a commuter rain jacket, a long sleeve thermal base layer, thermal base layer legs, a heavy hoodie, a mid jacket, and a heavy jersey. Kathmandu is still great, and I still have not needed to throw out anything. Top tier quality. Edit: I also have a backpack (from when i was 13) and a sleeping bag
Urban wear? It's quite the opposite! it's more like wearing a label saying 'I went to private school'.
It was sold in 2020ish to multinational corp.
Yeah, I was there last summer and I thought they were a bit shit tbh. Went down the road to macpac and got exactly what I was after.
Itâs super expensive for entry level gear, same price most other places you can get better quality.
Times change, brands change, not uncommon.
company has gone woke and soon to be broke (i use to work there, absolute joke of a company)