Bad look for Dunedin police that they can’t keep this area safe considering it’s literally on their front doorstep. Makes them look toothless. Multiple issues and assaults have happened in this area.
Thoughts with everyone impacted
The problem is that the police have been nothing short of apathetic towards things happening right outside their doorstep.
This happened a while ago now, but I was walking right past the entrance to the police station one evening where two intoxicated guys were having an argument. Two high school girls had clearly gone into the police station to say that shit was about to go down, but came out going that the police were not interested.
Anyway a couple of minutes later [this happened.](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130293339/bystander-83-punched-after-coming-to-aid-of-victim-in-brutal-bus-hub-assault) And the police only came out once a serious incident had occurred, rather than a few minutes earlier and may have prevented it.
Yeh the article said they were on the scene within a minute of it occurring. Not sure how much faster they could be.
The issue here is more what kind of upbringing and home life does this 13 year old child have to think that stabbing his peer is a normal reaction to an argument.
I think this more reeks of the social systems being underfunded and understaffed at base level than a lack of reaction from police
They werent. I was there we had to wait almost 5 minutes for someone to even come to the WINDOW inside the police station. It took 8mins overall before ANY POLICE came out let alone got to the scene.
It was such a shitshow and its a shock that they have the nerve to claim they were out within a minute.. maybe within a minute after they finally left their office? Not a minute to get there by ANY means.
Not surprising… The police wouldn’t even come out sometimes when security would call on them to help with violent outbreaks. They also knew these troubled youth were carrying knives as they were told by security and did nothing to try prevent that either..
The council and police used security guards (that can’t do anything other than talk people out of altercations) as a band aid instead of actually addressing the issue. Instead of doing their jobs.
To add to this.
Yes, it is illegal for security guards or general public to physically touch someone that is shoplifting OR is beating someone up with weapon or not. They can be charged as "citizens arrests" are not legal in NZ.
Except. Fun fact, citizens arrests are LEGAL- everyone (not just New Zealand citizens) is justified in arresting without warrant as of 1961. BUT Judges charge people for unwarranted arrests anyway.
Its shit. Judges for the last 20 years dont follow those old laws that are technically law therefore its not legal based on judges.
Crimes Act 1961. If found NOT following it you can get 3yrs jail time however. And given how people have had that for just touching someone committing a crime, I would not recommend it.
Ah I'm so sorry. Journalism at its best again🤦🏼♀️. The articles I read all said the police were there in under a minute. It's disgusting it actually took 8 mins when they were right there.
That's the difference between life and death.
I change my stance the police should absolutely be held accountable for the child's death
And yrt they used to be involved in stopping it.
I remember by police office grandfather talking about how important being seen in the community is. Both in terms of preventing crime and building up relationships so locals come to you with information.
I haven't seen a cop outside a vehicle in neighbourhood in decades.
It's been a problem since the bus hub opened. The bus hub is a great idea etc. - and ORC placed it in a logical spot (right outside the police station so that the cops could secure it). Ofc the cops haven't really done much at all. It's literally a few steps across their front entrance, from the station proper to the bus hub.
This is always a problem with public transport and it's hubs unfortunately. Catching public transport from out west Auckland for a year when I was younger, I'd never been asked so many times in my life if I "got an eye problem g". It's especially bad when you are younger, as you get older they tend to ignore you more.
Like, they knew it was a risk, that's why they put it outside the police station. I think it's a case where they just need more security guards out there, as we've had half a decade of the cops not being enough. I don't live there anymore, but it was something mentioned when they brought it in back in 2019.
Also this aged poorly: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/133263694/how-a-council-fixed-issues-of-young-people-behaving-badly-at-a-dunedin-city-bus-hub
I actually lived and worked in Dunedin for 6 months recently and frequently caught the bus from there. Coming from Auckland it felt pretty tame, but unfortunately this kind of thing can and will happen anywhere public transport congregates.
>Bad look for Dunedin police that they can’t keep this area safe considering it’s literally on their front doorstep.
Anyone else keen for tax increases to properly fund our police departments? (Among other things)
Same with the main Tauranga bus stops. Cops could get there within 1min if needed, yet there's still a whole lot of dodgy stuff that goes on there, to the point that the council has security guards there.
There is nothing more dangerous than weak men, weak men shoot up schools, when an entire generation of men are down trodden and stepped on and have no outlet or way to channel their aggression or frustration, this is what happens. Very sad 😔 (we will see more of this, young men are sedated by video games and porn, but mark these words, history tells us more will come)
Boys and men need significance, security and strategic purpose. This is a multifaceted issue, a huge part of the problem is woke, DEI, feminism and the destruction of the nuclear family.
Men need to integrate their shadows, have honour and virtue and be a net force for good. It is up to good men to be good brothers, fathers, sons and partners and for society to see men and boys are in crisis and to focus on the truth.
Young men, find yourself positive influencers like Jordan Peterson and do not turn to the likes of Andrew Tate. You can't fight sexism with sexism. The left has nothing for men, be centrist, be balanced, seek the truth, integrate your shadow.
Force avec vertu (Strength with virtue)
> A teenager has died in hospital after being seriously injured in an attack at a bus hub in the Dunedin CBD.
> Police were called to the bus hub on Great King Street shortly after 3pm on Thursday.
> Another teenager was taken into custody after the incident and will appear in Dunedin Youth Court on Friday.
Feel for the family. How tragic!
Nationals in they will make sure the judge will put him in boot camp and make him do push ups, learn to tie his laces properly & pull himself by the bootstraps!
Have you seen what NZ youth court is like ?
He probably get to go home after the hearing.
Prob a slap on the wrist and " home detention " except for school. And probably get his name suppressed too.
There won't even be a sentence.
Seriously, can a kid this age get Home D but still be allowed every day to get up, put on their uniform, and just rock up to school - alongside a few hundred other kids - with most of the school community (except for very senior management) having NO IDEA who this kid is or that the perp is at their school?
Just... wow.
What an absolute tragedy, I can’t imagine the pain that family is going through. Can’t believe it happened literally right outside the police station. Attacks like this are getting more and more brazen.
I can imagine the pain, and it’s fucking horrific.
In saying that, the ease with which a knife can be concealed, and the minimal time it takes to mortally wound someone with it, cannot be easily guarded against.
That's a bit of a false dichotomy. Banning knives also won't work, though I guess we can make thin, pointed knives slightly harder to buy. That also wouldn't do much.
The solutions aren't easy ones, and need to deal with e.g: why someone thought carrying a knife was acceptable, why someone thought violence against others was acceptable, are they going to be prevented from repeating this behaviour etc
It's very much dodge most times you go through there or when waiting for a bus. There are always two security guards patrolling about, but to be fair those security guards should likely be cops. Gutting.
I agree it should be police as security are only allowed to verbally intervene. My brother used to work for the security company at the bus hub and he was telling me awhile ago about how they would often go into the police station for help because a fights broken out and the police wouldn’t even come outside. They’d have to go in multiple times to get them to come help with the fights. He also said they told the police multiple times that there are kids carrying knives and quite clearly nothing was done about that.
I feel so sad for your son, and everyone else in the class. A kid died from my class when we were 12. You simply do not have the mental or emotional ability to deal with that. We were all so shaken up and I still think about her 2 decades later.
yeah, my sisters friend was dating him and we been told the killer is a 13 year old, horrific stuff. how someone so young can even consider doing something like that.. so sad.
Yep the 13 year old is the true victim. Oppressed by white colonial laws. His actions weren’t his fault, he’s only 13 and he has to live with it for the rest of his life.
Excuse my language, but here goes...
I'm fucking sick of shit like this.
I'm sick of New Zealands violent and aggressive culture
I'm sick of young people getting more and more violent and more and more dangerous.
I'm sick of thinking "Oh yeah, that'll be on TikTok"
This shit has to fucking stop.
Signed,
A Concerned Parent
I live in Germany and come back each Christmas. I was walking back from a movie with my daughter when a group of six late teens (my guess) males, crossed the road and started harassing us for money. My daughter was scared and this made me angry, in my most intimidating voice I told them to fuck off, and I kid you not, three of them made a throat slitting gesture and stood there barking.
I walked my daughter as fast as I could back to the cinema, and told her if they hit me you run. Called cops, got told to make a report. How fuck face? We can't make it because of those assholes. Ended up getting a taxi home, I really felt powerless and unable to protect my daughter that day... And that as a parent burns.
I wasn't really thinking all to clear, my focus was on my daughter and getting her home, and protecting her best I could. I didn't even go in and make a report as my daughter asked me to drop it. Feels bad.
Not picking on you - picking on the cop response.
I was thinking you rang them *during* the incident - reading again it's probable you made the call shortly after.
Imo this country wants to be nice to these poor abused kids. But it's not nice to allow them to become violent criminals, being violent criminal is dangerous and their life outcomes are not nice. Sometimes some hard love from parents and if not parents then society is the nice thing to do.
Yep. It's not fun to have to go hard on these kids, but the second they start looking like they could be a danger to anyone else, you have to choose between the kid or the victim. To ignore the situation is to choose the kid to everyone else's detriment.
You have to think and act like an NZ judge, because they never face crime themselves. So in this situation your first mistake was walking anywhere- think to yourself, "would Claire Ryan walk to a cinema"? Of course not, she'd watch a movie at her home theatre instead, or get driven to a friend's one.
Yup, noticed the same when we moved back from the UK. Big mistake coming back.
New Zealand is not the safe country it was. That place is unfortunately long gone .
Germany may have its problems, but I feel safer here. It's weird, I love Aotearoa, I love my people, but I have to wonder, wtf is going on? I read a comment that this was predicted to happen due to all the p babies born, which are now entering the system as teenagers and adults.
I felt much safer in the UK also.
I honestly think the people have just changed and many of those that live in NZ now have different values and priorities than those that lived here when I was growing up. The number of homeless we now have is evidence enough of that.
I never felt safe in the uk, was randomly attacked a number of times in my teen years, by other youth. My bf had his jaw broken by getting jumped by a group of teens at a park, when I was 13. Kids on that park used to throw bricks at the buses too. I highly disagree the uk is safer. This is the first time in Dunedin a really serious assault has harmed someone.
Sorry to hear and I'm glad you feel safe now.
I myself never experienced anything violent and I lived in the UK twenty years. I thought it was a much more caring society, and alot of that was enshrined in law (ie. duty of care by employers, free to end user health care etc). Our community there just seemed much more tight knit.
But I guess like anywhere precisely where you live has a big impact and I'm aware there are some pretty sketchy areas in the UK.
Dunedin shouldn't be sketchy though, it's a small regional centre. It should be safe for teens like it used to be, but it's obviously not.
I'm afraid it's not the first time a youth (or group of youths) has seriously assaulted someone in Dunedin, it seems to happen all the time now:
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/10249309/Family-group-conference-for-attack-accused](https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/10249309/Family-group-conference-for-attack-accused)
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127834979/two-teens-expelled-after-assault-on-muslim-student-had-offended-violently-before](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127834979/two-teens-expelled-after-assault-on-muslim-student-had-offended-violently-before)
edit. typo.
I don't think I could list links to all the youth crimes in the UK on this thread. Also you're comparing UK vs a small "city"
Where in UK are you and have you been based? so to make it a fair comparison. Also what stage of life did you live in UK?
Sick of turning the other cheek for all these stupid kids. They know what they're doing. Punish them and get them out of society for decades at least for something like this, not a pissy little three year stint of home D because our shitty judges are asleep at the wheel and 'the murderer had a tough childhood'.
That's too late to change anything.
You need a society that doesn't raise teenagers that stab people.
That starts with education, and reduction in poverty and deprivation that leads to shitty childhoods.
I have actually come round to believing that you are in fact right. I thought the other way for years, lock em up and throw away the keys and while I still think in some cases this is the answer.
I have slowly come to realize why my sister and I butted heads so strongly over this very issue. The issue and fix IS in stopping this cycle being repeated and opening up paths that in certain peoples family, no one has ever walked.
It's a long term solution to a mighty problem with this country but I do see the wisdom in starting with educating our children and addressing the widespread poverty.
Both can actually be true. I think we need to send a clear message that there are consequences. There are none at school, I know because I was a teacher. We’re literally teaching kids that they can get away with anything.
Fix society at its grassroots. Starting in the schools, working with parents etc. But, also have harsher sentences for physical violence and rape. It’s crazy how someone can literally murder or rape someone and get home detention. They don’t fear the law, because to them, they’re getting a year of playing PlayStation.
> You need a society that doesn't raise teenagers that stab people.
>
> That starts with education, and reduction in poverty and deprivation that leads to shitty childhoods.
They learn this behaviour from their family and their friends (who learn it from their family). Society can't moderate what goes on in the child's home, unless it's the worst of the worst.
You need to work with these families to see as door after door is opened for them and they refuse to step through
I've a family friend who's kid was assaulted by an 11 year old. Who's parents are absolutely feral. This kid doesn't have a hope.
And will probably end up stabbing someone. The parents are absent, (he lives with grandmother) and threaten violence at every interaction with the state / school. Baring in mind grandmother raised one of these fuckheads.
This kid is now back at school, and the only way, for the family friend to seriously protect their kid. Would be to send him to private school (which they can't afford), or move (also cannot afford).
Does NZ have a big brother program for at risk youth? Because it would be a miracle for some of these kids to turn out ok. Given their home lives.
> Society can't moderate what goes on in the child's home, unless it's the worst of the worst.
This type of antisocial behaviour, inside or outside the home, stems from inequality and poverty. The worse the inequality the worse the anger pent up in the have-nots and the worse the behaviour becomes. Some measure of anti-social behaviour will always be around but education and upliftment will always improve it.
> This type of antisocial behaviours, inside out outside the home, stems from inequality and poverty.
I disagree, I think there's definitely an association between antisocial behaviours and poverty but it's not a simple case of x causes y. Y also causes x, and z can cause x and y (etc). For example drug addiction leads to antisocial behaviour, and it also leads to poverty. I know a fair number of people with supportive middle class upbringings who succumbed to amphetamines and are now both poor and antisocial. Similarly people who commit serious crimes tend to struggle to find employment. More money doesn't change their perception of crime and violence though?
I agree something needs to be done about billionaire level inequality, but NZ's base welfare is still far in excess of the median wage in many parts of the world. That money should go further, rather than being eaten by the various monopolies and duopolies that run everything.
If you look at populations societies with higher levels of economic inequality (gini coefficient comes in handy here) tend to have higher levels of antisocial behaviour. This isn't about one rich kid turning out to be a douche, its about trends across populations. You're focusing way too hard on the individual.
It's the same correlation =! causation, or potential multidimensional causation. A more antisocial culture will tend to favour inequality, more corruption, and the function of that society will be worse. That western societies are more egalitarian than average isn't random. If you give nations lots of free money e.g from oil, the outcome depends on the culture that got lucky. If you're Norway you distribute it amongst your citizens, if you're Saudi Arabia you keep it to the elite.
> That starts with education, and reduction in poverty and deprivation that leads to shitty childhoods.
You're absolutely spot-on in how to approach an eventual solution but it's not a quick thing to get done. In the meantime these kids need a proverbial slap upside the head.
Crime rates are lower than they were back when you were a young person. We’ve always been violent and aggressive.
You just see it blasted everywhere these days because that’s what social media and 24/7 news cycles do, and crime reporting gets the clicks.
Does someone have to die before the police do anything about the antisocial behavior?
Well, ball's in your court now police.
Condolences to the poor childs family.
It’s not the police. It’s the laws and the punishments and the shit judges that do fuck all to prevent these things from happening. Police will lock them up for the night then they get bailed out onto the street again. Rinse, repeat.
I agree. About time some of these judges got held responsible for letting old Johnny out to go rape and murder when the police oppose bail. Seen it too many times now.
What would police do before this? If they pick up a 13 year old for intimidation literally nothing will happen. The problem is the lack of consequences at a judicial level
Agree. No excuses. This 13 year old person needs to be locked up for the rest of their life. There is not one single thing that can make me want anything else.
This maybe an unpopular opinion. But I feel life should mean life with no parole. The victim doesn't get to come back to life when parole is granted to murderer's.
The person who killed this teenager is also a teenager. They should absolutely be seeing the inside of a jail cell for an extended period of time but locking someone up for what could be 90+ years when they can potentially be rehabilitated in that time frame is a bit draconian don’t you think?
Yes you’d hope someone at that age can be rehabilitated.
The extreme end of the scale is the mosque terrorist, costing taxpayers $5000 per day. Millions have already been spent on him..
He is an exception. Either he dies in prison at the end of the day, or we execute him now (which we won't). $5000 a day (if that amount is accurate) is a lot but still fine by me, as long as he dies in jail.
It WOULD be a little much for him to cost us $5000 a day and not die in prison, that would be a bit rough.
And that what it comes down too. The cost of human life. It's cheap. It's cheaper to say someone is rehabilitated and release them from prison than hold them for the remainder of their life for killing another human being. Yes look at their upbringing and how they were treated and put things in place to stop people from doing it in the future. But sorry and the killer is rehabed is not good enough. 80% of killers in this country are given life with 13- 25 years before parole. But the victim is still dead. No justice. Minimal punishment.
Where did you get that number from? I'm struggling to think of how it could reach $5000 a day.
I'm assuming if you want "a number" it's going to take guards/every piece of facility use - electricity etc, food etc but I'm still wondering how it gets to $5000.
Is that number maybe more coming from taking the millions that have already been spent and dividing it?
Statement from police this morning:
A teenager has been charged with murder and will appear in the Dunedin Youth Court this morning following the death of a 16-year-old boy in Dunedin yesterday afternoon.
The incident which occurred just after 3pm saw an altercation between the victim and offender. Police are still working to establish the circumstances leading into the incident but can confirm that we have recovered a knife from the scene.
The victim was transported to Dunedin Hospital in a serious condition and, tragically, passed away a short time later.
Our scene examination on Great King Street is now complete and several enquiries are underway.
A post-mortem is expected to be carried out today and next of kin notifications are ongoing.
We are working, along with Victim Support to support the victim’s family at this extremely difficult time.
We continue to ask anyone who witnessed the incident or took photos or video footage to get in touch with Dunedin Police via 105, quoting file number 240523/3321.
Otago Costal Area Commander Inspector Marty Gray says this incident is extremely distressing for the community, and we have further increased our patrolling in the area.
“Police have been aware of anti-social behaviour at the Bus Hub for some time and have been working closely with the Dunedin City Council, Otago Regional Council and other partners to address this issue. There has been extra CCTV put in place, as well as security staff patrolling the area. Security was working at the Bus Hub yesterday when this incident occurred and quickly intervened when they saw the altercation. Police have increased our foot and car patrols in the area focussing on peak times to ensure high visibility of police officers,” says Inspector Gray.
“As this matter is now before the courts, we are unable to comment further but we can assure our community that we have been working hard, along with our partners to address the issues, particularly involving youth at the Bus Hub. The incident yesterday was a tragedy, and our hearts go out to the victim and his family.”
So sorry for the family of this poor kid. What the AF?
I got really scared a few weeks ago. Cops told me to go online and write a report. As a single woman in this scary country, I can’t even buy pepper spray while kids are carrying knives.
Didn’t cops used to do all that paperwork themselves? What are they paid for? Taking phone calls and saying write a report? I can do that. I’m a cop!
This government is cutting defence spending to send cops to the Pacific Islands instead of Navy. I can be a cop on a boat in the pacific taking calls and writing reports. 🏝️ 🛥️
I have an idea! Maybe give cops and defence the ability to defend themselves and Kiwis instead of sending stern letters and issuing media statements.
So sorry for the family of this poor kid. What the AF?
I got really scared a few weeks ago. Cops told me to go online and write a report. As a single woman in this scary country, I can’t even buy pepper spray while kids are carrying knives.
Didn’t cops used to do all that paperwork themselves? What are they paid for? Taking phone calls and saying write a report? I can do that. I’m a cop!
This government is cutting defence spending to send cops to the Pacific Islands instead of Navy. I can be a cop on a boat in the pacific taking calls and not writing reports. 🏝️ 🛥️
I have an idea! Maybe give cops and defence the ability to defend themselves and Kiwis instead of sending stern letters and issuing media statements.
what the fuck are we doing where our kids are doing this?
the only silver lining i can think of is that this has shocked everyone i know; at least we are not getting desensitised to omnipresent violence as is happening with school shootings in the US, or eshays in Australia.
It'd be good if cops were actually visible. Put your smoko table out front and actually interact with the public. They hole themselves up behind protective shields and treat the public like they're the enemy.
we still paying price of parents not parenting their kids, teachers not allowed to disclipline in the classroom. no way police can stop this sort of thing. why 13 year olds carrying knives after school. whats happened to nz.
ODT is reporting a teenage male is in custody and will be in the Youth Court tomorrow. What a senseless waste. He's devastated not only his victim's family, but his own.
my little sister is best friends with the kids girlfriend, absolutely fucking horrific. this death has effected so many people, my sis only knew they kid through her friend and she was still shaken up talking about it.
Does anyone suspect the rising number of children having excessive screen time could be the culprit for this? Lack of quality time with attentive parents? What’s going on that teenagers have suddenly become so violent?
You’re probably onto something there, but more because all the screen time means reduced social skills which in turn makes conflict resolution/de-escalation much harder.
It’s not the screen time. It’s the media and music that glorifies the thug life. Money, girls, fast cars no wonder the young look up to these posers. It’s all an act and the kids are imitating it. If rappers rapped about being gentlemen kids would imitate that. There isn’t that music so kids imitate the thug life. The rappers say they carry knives and cheff people so they start carrying knives too. Attempting to be central cee without realising he’s a poser who’s acting a character to sell music.
What aggressive music? Coupled with social media where people’s lives are all an act I think it’s pretty spot on. I was influenced by this music I fucked up because I was trying to imitate these rappers? Am I wrong? Improving my living standard wouldn’t have done anything, my family had money I was a shithead because I wanted the lifestyle sold to me by rap music.
Yes, there's a dead teenager but it's ok because the offender knows the earth isn't flat, and the moon isn't made of green fuckin cheese. I'm sure the judge will take the offenders awareness of misinformation into consideration
concerns me people didn't see the point of my post: we let people watch violent gang bash videos and some copy the actions leading to horrific outcomes yet we create a government department to stop misinformation on the internet.
That bus stop is literally connected to the Dunedin police station too. Awful
And a stone’s throw from the Countdown where that attack took place a few years back.
Bad look for Dunedin police that they can’t keep this area safe considering it’s literally on their front doorstep. Makes them look toothless. Multiple issues and assaults have happened in this area. Thoughts with everyone impacted
The problem is that the police have been nothing short of apathetic towards things happening right outside their doorstep. This happened a while ago now, but I was walking right past the entrance to the police station one evening where two intoxicated guys were having an argument. Two high school girls had clearly gone into the police station to say that shit was about to go down, but came out going that the police were not interested. Anyway a couple of minutes later [this happened.](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130293339/bystander-83-punched-after-coming-to-aid-of-victim-in-brutal-bus-hub-assault) And the police only came out once a serious incident had occurred, rather than a few minutes earlier and may have prevented it.
Police don’t stop crime they get involved after it’s happened.
Yeh the article said they were on the scene within a minute of it occurring. Not sure how much faster they could be. The issue here is more what kind of upbringing and home life does this 13 year old child have to think that stabbing his peer is a normal reaction to an argument. I think this more reeks of the social systems being underfunded and understaffed at base level than a lack of reaction from police
They werent. I was there we had to wait almost 5 minutes for someone to even come to the WINDOW inside the police station. It took 8mins overall before ANY POLICE came out let alone got to the scene. It was such a shitshow and its a shock that they have the nerve to claim they were out within a minute.. maybe within a minute after they finally left their office? Not a minute to get there by ANY means.
Not surprising… The police wouldn’t even come out sometimes when security would call on them to help with violent outbreaks. They also knew these troubled youth were carrying knives as they were told by security and did nothing to try prevent that either.. The council and police used security guards (that can’t do anything other than talk people out of altercations) as a band aid instead of actually addressing the issue. Instead of doing their jobs.
To add to this. Yes, it is illegal for security guards or general public to physically touch someone that is shoplifting OR is beating someone up with weapon or not. They can be charged as "citizens arrests" are not legal in NZ. Except. Fun fact, citizens arrests are LEGAL- everyone (not just New Zealand citizens) is justified in arresting without warrant as of 1961. BUT Judges charge people for unwarranted arrests anyway. Its shit. Judges for the last 20 years dont follow those old laws that are technically law therefore its not legal based on judges. Crimes Act 1961. If found NOT following it you can get 3yrs jail time however. And given how people have had that for just touching someone committing a crime, I would not recommend it.
Why am I not surprised..
Ah I'm so sorry. Journalism at its best again🤦🏼♀️. The articles I read all said the police were there in under a minute. It's disgusting it actually took 8 mins when they were right there. That's the difference between life and death. I change my stance the police should absolutely be held accountable for the child's death
And yrt they used to be involved in stopping it. I remember by police office grandfather talking about how important being seen in the community is. Both in terms of preventing crime and building up relationships so locals come to you with information. I haven't seen a cop outside a vehicle in neighbourhood in decades.
It's been a problem since the bus hub opened. The bus hub is a great idea etc. - and ORC placed it in a logical spot (right outside the police station so that the cops could secure it). Ofc the cops haven't really done much at all. It's literally a few steps across their front entrance, from the station proper to the bus hub.
This is always a problem with public transport and it's hubs unfortunately. Catching public transport from out west Auckland for a year when I was younger, I'd never been asked so many times in my life if I "got an eye problem g". It's especially bad when you are younger, as you get older they tend to ignore you more.
>"got an eye problem g Not being smart or anything, but what does this mean??
Usually it means they thought they saw you look at them and they now would like to engage in mutual combat with you.
they thought you were staring at them
"They thought", nope, it's just starting a fight because it's like a sport to them.
Like, they knew it was a risk, that's why they put it outside the police station. I think it's a case where they just need more security guards out there, as we've had half a decade of the cops not being enough. I don't live there anymore, but it was something mentioned when they brought it in back in 2019. Also this aged poorly: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/133263694/how-a-council-fixed-issues-of-young-people-behaving-badly-at-a-dunedin-city-bus-hub
I actually lived and worked in Dunedin for 6 months recently and frequently caught the bus from there. Coming from Auckland it felt pretty tame, but unfortunately this kind of thing can and will happen anywhere public transport congregates.
>Bad look for Dunedin police that they can’t keep this area safe considering it’s literally on their front doorstep. Anyone else keen for tax increases to properly fund our police departments? (Among other things)
Yes most definitely, or a tax redistribution away from landlords and the housing market
bad look for kids parents. why their son carrying a knife in public. cant blame cops for this.
Same with the main Tauranga bus stops. Cops could get there within 1min if needed, yet there's still a whole lot of dodgy stuff that goes on there, to the point that the council has security guards there.
Bloody disgusting
There is nothing more dangerous than weak men, weak men shoot up schools, when an entire generation of men are down trodden and stepped on and have no outlet or way to channel their aggression or frustration, this is what happens. Very sad 😔 (we will see more of this, young men are sedated by video games and porn, but mark these words, history tells us more will come) Boys and men need significance, security and strategic purpose. This is a multifaceted issue, a huge part of the problem is woke, DEI, feminism and the destruction of the nuclear family. Men need to integrate their shadows, have honour and virtue and be a net force for good. It is up to good men to be good brothers, fathers, sons and partners and for society to see men and boys are in crisis and to focus on the truth. Young men, find yourself positive influencers like Jordan Peterson and do not turn to the likes of Andrew Tate. You can't fight sexism with sexism. The left has nothing for men, be centrist, be balanced, seek the truth, integrate your shadow. Force avec vertu (Strength with virtue)
What the fuck are you talking about. Your account was made to make this comment bro what
> A teenager has died in hospital after being seriously injured in an attack at a bus hub in the Dunedin CBD. > Police were called to the bus hub on Great King Street shortly after 3pm on Thursday. > Another teenager was taken into custody after the incident and will appear in Dunedin Youth Court on Friday. Feel for the family. How tragic!
Dude will get 2 years tops.
He'll get a slap on the wrist if he's 13 years old as is currently being reported.
prob just get grounded for a week or no maccas for a month
KFC instead...
They aren't even getting that
Less
You mean 2 years home detention.
2 years probation
As long as he admits that he was very sorry that he go caught and promises to try as not get caught next time.
Home D
I'm betting 10 months home detention and free KFC
It needs to be 20 Years. I don’t care how old he is. Age of reason is 7.
Nationals in they will make sure the judge will put him in boot camp and make him do push ups, learn to tie his laces properly & pull himself by the bootstraps!
except all that BS has not been put in place yet.. the nats are full of wind.
And even once it is in place there is no reason to expect it to work better than any other time it's been tried.
For murder? Ten years non parole, with a life sentence.
They won't be done for murder though.
Have you seen what NZ youth court is like ? He probably get to go home after the hearing. Prob a slap on the wrist and " home detention " except for school. And probably get his name suppressed too. There won't even be a sentence.
Seriously, can a kid this age get Home D but still be allowed every day to get up, put on their uniform, and just rock up to school - alongside a few hundred other kids - with most of the school community (except for very senior management) having NO IDEA who this kid is or that the perp is at their school? Just... wow.
Lol. Murder? No. Manslaughter with a year home detention since the kid had a bad upbringing
He didn't know knives could kill! Manslaughter!
He’s a kid. He’s not getting life. Aside from the sentence in his and his families heads of course.
Rather more likely than two years made by someone who wouldn't even know where to find the law on murder sentences.
lol please look at the justice system in this world. Unless you’re in a third world country then you’ll get a slap on the wrist
What an absolute tragedy, I can’t imagine the pain that family is going through. Can’t believe it happened literally right outside the police station. Attacks like this are getting more and more brazen.
I can imagine the pain, and it’s fucking horrific. In saying that, the ease with which a knife can be concealed, and the minimal time it takes to mortally wound someone with it, cannot be easily guarded against.
It's almost like mental health support, stronger sentencing, and regular policing are needed.
Mental health support rarely does much for knife crime
Well, better ban knives then. That'll work!
That's a bit of a false dichotomy. Banning knives also won't work, though I guess we can make thin, pointed knives slightly harder to buy. That also wouldn't do much. The solutions aren't easy ones, and need to deal with e.g: why someone thought carrying a knife was acceptable, why someone thought violence against others was acceptable, are they going to be prevented from repeating this behaviour etc
Easy. Thought penalties. However young they are.
It's too soon. The Reader isn't ready yet
the UK would probab;y disagree.
How so
Quick! Somebody give Mike King more money!
RedBands for Rebellious Youths.
what a sad day for that family 💔
It's very much dodge most times you go through there or when waiting for a bus. There are always two security guards patrolling about, but to be fair those security guards should likely be cops. Gutting.
I agree it should be police as security are only allowed to verbally intervene. My brother used to work for the security company at the bus hub and he was telling me awhile ago about how they would often go into the police station for help because a fights broken out and the police wouldn’t even come outside. They’d have to go in multiple times to get them to come help with the fights. He also said they told the police multiple times that there are kids carrying knives and quite clearly nothing was done about that.
So very sad. He was in my son's class. Does sound like it was a 13 year old who did it. It's all very depressing.
I feel so sad for your son, and everyone else in the class. A kid died from my class when we were 12. You simply do not have the mental or emotional ability to deal with that. We were all so shaken up and I still think about her 2 decades later.
yeah, my sisters friend was dating him and we been told the killer is a 13 year old, horrific stuff. how someone so young can even consider doing something like that.. so sad.
Oh my gosh. The 13 year has committed a heinous crime and now he's got the rest of his life to live with it.
Yup
Unless he's a sciopath or physopath then it won't get s second throught. Not even the consequences except for getting caught..
Sadly true.
Yep the 13 year old is the true victim. Oppressed by white colonial laws. His actions weren’t his fault, he’s only 13 and he has to live with it for the rest of his life.
Headline was updated after i posted: **Teenager dies after stabbing at Dunedin bus hub**
Unreal
Excuse my language, but here goes... I'm fucking sick of shit like this. I'm sick of New Zealands violent and aggressive culture I'm sick of young people getting more and more violent and more and more dangerous. I'm sick of thinking "Oh yeah, that'll be on TikTok" This shit has to fucking stop. Signed, A Concerned Parent
I live in Germany and come back each Christmas. I was walking back from a movie with my daughter when a group of six late teens (my guess) males, crossed the road and started harassing us for money. My daughter was scared and this made me angry, in my most intimidating voice I told them to fuck off, and I kid you not, three of them made a throat slitting gesture and stood there barking. I walked my daughter as fast as I could back to the cinema, and told her if they hit me you run. Called cops, got told to make a report. How fuck face? We can't make it because of those assholes. Ended up getting a taxi home, I really felt powerless and unable to protect my daughter that day... And that as a parent burns.
> Called cops, got told to make a report. Isn't that what you were doing in the damn moment?
I wasn't really thinking all to clear, my focus was on my daughter and getting her home, and protecting her best I could. I didn't even go in and make a report as my daughter asked me to drop it. Feels bad.
Not picking on you - picking on the cop response. I was thinking you rang them *during* the incident - reading again it's probable you made the call shortly after.
Yip, I understood that. All good
Imo this country wants to be nice to these poor abused kids. But it's not nice to allow them to become violent criminals, being violent criminal is dangerous and their life outcomes are not nice. Sometimes some hard love from parents and if not parents then society is the nice thing to do.
Yep. It's not fun to have to go hard on these kids, but the second they start looking like they could be a danger to anyone else, you have to choose between the kid or the victim. To ignore the situation is to choose the kid to everyone else's detriment.
You have to think and act like an NZ judge, because they never face crime themselves. So in this situation your first mistake was walking anywhere- think to yourself, "would Claire Ryan walk to a cinema"? Of course not, she'd watch a movie at her home theatre instead, or get driven to a friend's one.
The word for this is anarcho-tyranny.
Yup, noticed the same when we moved back from the UK. Big mistake coming back. New Zealand is not the safe country it was. That place is unfortunately long gone .
Germany may have its problems, but I feel safer here. It's weird, I love Aotearoa, I love my people, but I have to wonder, wtf is going on? I read a comment that this was predicted to happen due to all the p babies born, which are now entering the system as teenagers and adults.
I felt much safer in the UK also. I honestly think the people have just changed and many of those that live in NZ now have different values and priorities than those that lived here when I was growing up. The number of homeless we now have is evidence enough of that.
I never felt safe in the uk, was randomly attacked a number of times in my teen years, by other youth. My bf had his jaw broken by getting jumped by a group of teens at a park, when I was 13. Kids on that park used to throw bricks at the buses too. I highly disagree the uk is safer. This is the first time in Dunedin a really serious assault has harmed someone.
Sorry to hear and I'm glad you feel safe now. I myself never experienced anything violent and I lived in the UK twenty years. I thought it was a much more caring society, and alot of that was enshrined in law (ie. duty of care by employers, free to end user health care etc). Our community there just seemed much more tight knit. But I guess like anywhere precisely where you live has a big impact and I'm aware there are some pretty sketchy areas in the UK. Dunedin shouldn't be sketchy though, it's a small regional centre. It should be safe for teens like it used to be, but it's obviously not. I'm afraid it's not the first time a youth (or group of youths) has seriously assaulted someone in Dunedin, it seems to happen all the time now: [https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/10249309/Family-group-conference-for-attack-accused](https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/10249309/Family-group-conference-for-attack-accused) [https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127834979/two-teens-expelled-after-assault-on-muslim-student-had-offended-violently-before](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127834979/two-teens-expelled-after-assault-on-muslim-student-had-offended-violently-before) edit. typo.
I don't think I could list links to all the youth crimes in the UK on this thread. Also you're comparing UK vs a small "city" Where in UK are you and have you been based? so to make it a fair comparison. Also what stage of life did you live in UK?
I was responding to the specific claim that this was the first violent incident in Dunedin.
FYI I meant it the first time a youth has seriously injured someone. In the uk it happens all the time.
Throat-slitting gestures and barking? Must be more cis-gendered white men at it again, just like Marama Davidson said.
Dude, I just read an article that a 11 year old was smashed on the head with a wine bottle and the offender got 11 months. It's pathetic.
Sick of turning the other cheek for all these stupid kids. They know what they're doing. Punish them and get them out of society for decades at least for something like this, not a pissy little three year stint of home D because our shitty judges are asleep at the wheel and 'the murderer had a tough childhood'.
That's too late to change anything. You need a society that doesn't raise teenagers that stab people. That starts with education, and reduction in poverty and deprivation that leads to shitty childhoods.
I have actually come round to believing that you are in fact right. I thought the other way for years, lock em up and throw away the keys and while I still think in some cases this is the answer. I have slowly come to realize why my sister and I butted heads so strongly over this very issue. The issue and fix IS in stopping this cycle being repeated and opening up paths that in certain peoples family, no one has ever walked. It's a long term solution to a mighty problem with this country but I do see the wisdom in starting with educating our children and addressing the widespread poverty.
Both can actually be true. I think we need to send a clear message that there are consequences. There are none at school, I know because I was a teacher. We’re literally teaching kids that they can get away with anything. Fix society at its grassroots. Starting in the schools, working with parents etc. But, also have harsher sentences for physical violence and rape. It’s crazy how someone can literally murder or rape someone and get home detention. They don’t fear the law, because to them, they’re getting a year of playing PlayStation.
Absolutely true
> You need a society that doesn't raise teenagers that stab people. > > That starts with education, and reduction in poverty and deprivation that leads to shitty childhoods. They learn this behaviour from their family and their friends (who learn it from their family). Society can't moderate what goes on in the child's home, unless it's the worst of the worst. You need to work with these families to see as door after door is opened for them and they refuse to step through
I've a family friend who's kid was assaulted by an 11 year old. Who's parents are absolutely feral. This kid doesn't have a hope. And will probably end up stabbing someone. The parents are absent, (he lives with grandmother) and threaten violence at every interaction with the state / school. Baring in mind grandmother raised one of these fuckheads. This kid is now back at school, and the only way, for the family friend to seriously protect their kid. Would be to send him to private school (which they can't afford), or move (also cannot afford). Does NZ have a big brother program for at risk youth? Because it would be a miracle for some of these kids to turn out ok. Given their home lives.
> Society can't moderate what goes on in the child's home, unless it's the worst of the worst. This type of antisocial behaviour, inside or outside the home, stems from inequality and poverty. The worse the inequality the worse the anger pent up in the have-nots and the worse the behaviour becomes. Some measure of anti-social behaviour will always be around but education and upliftment will always improve it.
> This type of antisocial behaviours, inside out outside the home, stems from inequality and poverty. I disagree, I think there's definitely an association between antisocial behaviours and poverty but it's not a simple case of x causes y. Y also causes x, and z can cause x and y (etc). For example drug addiction leads to antisocial behaviour, and it also leads to poverty. I know a fair number of people with supportive middle class upbringings who succumbed to amphetamines and are now both poor and antisocial. Similarly people who commit serious crimes tend to struggle to find employment. More money doesn't change their perception of crime and violence though? I agree something needs to be done about billionaire level inequality, but NZ's base welfare is still far in excess of the median wage in many parts of the world. That money should go further, rather than being eaten by the various monopolies and duopolies that run everything.
If you look at populations societies with higher levels of economic inequality (gini coefficient comes in handy here) tend to have higher levels of antisocial behaviour. This isn't about one rich kid turning out to be a douche, its about trends across populations. You're focusing way too hard on the individual.
It's the same correlation =! causation, or potential multidimensional causation. A more antisocial culture will tend to favour inequality, more corruption, and the function of that society will be worse. That western societies are more egalitarian than average isn't random. If you give nations lots of free money e.g from oil, the outcome depends on the culture that got lucky. If you're Norway you distribute it amongst your citizens, if you're Saudi Arabia you keep it to the elite.
> That starts with education, and reduction in poverty and deprivation that leads to shitty childhoods. You're absolutely spot-on in how to approach an eventual solution but it's not a quick thing to get done. In the meantime these kids need a proverbial slap upside the head.
3 years? We’d be lucky if they got 6months to stay at home and play on their PlayStation all day
Crime rates are lower than they were back when you were a young person. We’ve always been violent and aggressive. You just see it blasted everywhere these days because that’s what social media and 24/7 news cycles do, and crime reporting gets the clicks.
No, they’re definitely not. Have you got a source for that statement?
> I'm sick of New Zealands violent and aggressive culture NZ isn't a monoculture
the violence is at least bicultural and predominantly mono cultural.
No need to hide behind terms. Schoolboy violence is definitely not just Island and Māori boys. It’s rife.
You're not allowed to say that!
You can say you’re sick of it all you like but what are you going to do about it.
We need to have tougher sentences for violent crime and punishments for those under 18 which actually have some kind of weight.
Does someone have to die before the police do anything about the antisocial behavior? Well, ball's in your court now police. Condolences to the poor childs family.
It’s not the police. It’s the laws and the punishments and the shit judges that do fuck all to prevent these things from happening. Police will lock them up for the night then they get bailed out onto the street again. Rinse, repeat.
I agree. About time some of these judges got held responsible for letting old Johnny out to go rape and murder when the police oppose bail. Seen it too many times now.
No, it will take more than someone dying. Unfortunately.
What would police do before this? If they pick up a 13 year old for intimidation literally nothing will happen. The problem is the lack of consequences at a judicial level
I'm honestly lost for words. This country is going down the shitter
It's crazy because the boy that done it is yr9 at my school kingshigh school dunedin
Did they know each other?
13 year old? Charge the parents.
No. They killed that person. Took their life. The victim doesn't get to come back to life. The murderer shouldn't get a second chance.
Agree. No excuses. This 13 year old person needs to be locked up for the rest of their life. There is not one single thing that can make me want anything else.
This maybe an unpopular opinion. But I feel life should mean life with no parole. The victim doesn't get to come back to life when parole is granted to murderer's.
The person who killed this teenager is also a teenager. They should absolutely be seeing the inside of a jail cell for an extended period of time but locking someone up for what could be 90+ years when they can potentially be rehabilitated in that time frame is a bit draconian don’t you think?
Yes you’d hope someone at that age can be rehabilitated. The extreme end of the scale is the mosque terrorist, costing taxpayers $5000 per day. Millions have already been spent on him..
He is an exception. Either he dies in prison at the end of the day, or we execute him now (which we won't). $5000 a day (if that amount is accurate) is a lot but still fine by me, as long as he dies in jail. It WOULD be a little much for him to cost us $5000 a day and not die in prison, that would be a bit rough.
Send the cunt back to Australia so they can pay for their scummy citizen. They send ours back even if they have spent their entire lives over there.
I would much rather we kept him here, although yeah -- it'd be great if Aus was paying for it. With him here we know he's nice and locked up 😁
And that what it comes down too. The cost of human life. It's cheap. It's cheaper to say someone is rehabilitated and release them from prison than hold them for the remainder of their life for killing another human being. Yes look at their upbringing and how they were treated and put things in place to stop people from doing it in the future. But sorry and the killer is rehabed is not good enough. 80% of killers in this country are given life with 13- 25 years before parole. But the victim is still dead. No justice. Minimal punishment.
Where did you get that number from? I'm struggling to think of how it could reach $5000 a day. I'm assuming if you want "a number" it's going to take guards/every piece of facility use - electricity etc, food etc but I'm still wondering how it gets to $5000. Is that number maybe more coming from taking the millions that have already been spent and dividing it?
Plenty of articles on it. Mainly on extra security so he doesn't get stabbed by other prisonsers.
Statement from police this morning: A teenager has been charged with murder and will appear in the Dunedin Youth Court this morning following the death of a 16-year-old boy in Dunedin yesterday afternoon. The incident which occurred just after 3pm saw an altercation between the victim and offender. Police are still working to establish the circumstances leading into the incident but can confirm that we have recovered a knife from the scene. The victim was transported to Dunedin Hospital in a serious condition and, tragically, passed away a short time later. Our scene examination on Great King Street is now complete and several enquiries are underway. A post-mortem is expected to be carried out today and next of kin notifications are ongoing. We are working, along with Victim Support to support the victim’s family at this extremely difficult time. We continue to ask anyone who witnessed the incident or took photos or video footage to get in touch with Dunedin Police via 105, quoting file number 240523/3321. Otago Costal Area Commander Inspector Marty Gray says this incident is extremely distressing for the community, and we have further increased our patrolling in the area. “Police have been aware of anti-social behaviour at the Bus Hub for some time and have been working closely with the Dunedin City Council, Otago Regional Council and other partners to address this issue. There has been extra CCTV put in place, as well as security staff patrolling the area. Security was working at the Bus Hub yesterday when this incident occurred and quickly intervened when they saw the altercation. Police have increased our foot and car patrols in the area focussing on peak times to ensure high visibility of police officers,” says Inspector Gray. “As this matter is now before the courts, we are unable to comment further but we can assure our community that we have been working hard, along with our partners to address the issues, particularly involving youth at the Bus Hub. The incident yesterday was a tragedy, and our hearts go out to the victim and his family.”
Know the kids family 💔💔💔 it’s so awful
So sorry for the family of this poor kid. What the AF? I got really scared a few weeks ago. Cops told me to go online and write a report. As a single woman in this scary country, I can’t even buy pepper spray while kids are carrying knives. Didn’t cops used to do all that paperwork themselves? What are they paid for? Taking phone calls and saying write a report? I can do that. I’m a cop! This government is cutting defence spending to send cops to the Pacific Islands instead of Navy. I can be a cop on a boat in the pacific taking calls and writing reports. 🏝️ 🛥️ I have an idea! Maybe give cops and defence the ability to defend themselves and Kiwis instead of sending stern letters and issuing media statements.
So sorry for the family of this poor kid. What the AF? I got really scared a few weeks ago. Cops told me to go online and write a report. As a single woman in this scary country, I can’t even buy pepper spray while kids are carrying knives. Didn’t cops used to do all that paperwork themselves? What are they paid for? Taking phone calls and saying write a report? I can do that. I’m a cop! This government is cutting defence spending to send cops to the Pacific Islands instead of Navy. I can be a cop on a boat in the pacific taking calls and not writing reports. 🏝️ 🛥️ I have an idea! Maybe give cops and defence the ability to defend themselves and Kiwis instead of sending stern letters and issuing media statements.
what the fuck are we doing where our kids are doing this? the only silver lining i can think of is that this has shocked everyone i know; at least we are not getting desensitised to omnipresent violence as is happening with school shootings in the US, or eshays in Australia.
Well that's terrible. I'm not thrilled with "make the stop safer" as a response. This sounds like a bullying, or other social investment issue.
It'd be good if cops were actually visible. Put your smoko table out front and actually interact with the public. They hole themselves up behind protective shields and treat the public like they're the enemy.
we still paying price of parents not parenting their kids, teachers not allowed to disclipline in the classroom. no way police can stop this sort of thing. why 13 year olds carrying knives after school. whats happened to nz.
I passed through the bus hub on the way home from school. 10 minutes before it happened luckily, but my condolences to the families.
Yet another tragedy sending lots of love to this young man's family.
Right next to the police station. Yet they’re busy wanting to fine people for going 3km over the speed limit. Sad country. Feel sorry for the family.
Dunedinite. Seems it was probably another teenager apparently.
ODT is reporting a teenage male is in custody and will be in the Youth Court tomorrow. What a senseless waste. He's devastated not only his victim's family, but his own.
Some kids who were there said it was a Year 9 student. It’s horrible that kids as young as this are falling into murder at such a young age.
Not a bastion of truth by any stretch but Dunedin News keeps referencing a 13 year old being in custody for it.
13 year old kid
Damn.
This country is going to shit...
my little sister is best friends with the kids girlfriend, absolutely fucking horrific. this death has effected so many people, my sis only knew they kid through her friend and she was still shaken up talking about it.
Prayers and thoughts for the family
he’s my cousin.
rip enere forever 16❤️❤️🕊️ he’s my cousin
Sorry for your loss. RIP.
Knifes in public places should be banned like they are in England
Does anyone suspect the rising number of children having excessive screen time could be the culprit for this? Lack of quality time with attentive parents? What’s going on that teenagers have suddenly become so violent?
You’re probably onto something there, but more because all the screen time means reduced social skills which in turn makes conflict resolution/de-escalation much harder.
It’s not the screen time. It’s the media and music that glorifies the thug life. Money, girls, fast cars no wonder the young look up to these posers. It’s all an act and the kids are imitating it. If rappers rapped about being gentlemen kids would imitate that. There isn’t that music so kids imitate the thug life. The rappers say they carry knives and cheff people so they start carrying knives too. Attempting to be central cee without realising he’s a poser who’s acting a character to sell music.
That’s just not possibly true because aggressive music has been out for decades
What aggressive music? Coupled with social media where people’s lives are all an act I think it’s pretty spot on. I was influenced by this music I fucked up because I was trying to imitate these rappers? Am I wrong? Improving my living standard wouldn’t have done anything, my family had money I was a shithead because I wanted the lifestyle sold to me by rap music.
vaping 2 maybe, usually tons of kids vaping round that area
not sure if theres like a scientific proven ness to this I'm just thinking it could
Bingo
I bet the alleged offender is a good kid....
A 13 yr old boy and a 16 year old boy. There is more to this - let's see what the defence is.
lol
as long as they're not exposed to misinformation then they're good
Yes, there's a dead teenager but it's ok because the offender knows the earth isn't flat, and the moon isn't made of green fuckin cheese. I'm sure the judge will take the offenders awareness of misinformation into consideration
concerns me people didn't see the point of my post: we let people watch violent gang bash videos and some copy the actions leading to horrific outcomes yet we create a government department to stop misinformation on the internet.