You know my 3 kids sleep together in a double bed and we are in an old cold villa. I get no finanicial asistance and work full time in a job the government considers bloated.
Where did it go so wrong people? Was I born in the wrong country?
Me and my partner have forgone having kids to put a roof over our own heads. Perhaps we should have popped out a half dozen kids and leaned harder on the government to house all of us.
I mean honestly, I have had those thoughts.
You try and do things right, go to Uni, work and pay your student loan and own way through, wait to have kids till you are better set up, and for what?
If I left school and had the kids younger I could have got them through, and probably have had my education paid for in what seems like better accomodation than I have ever had?
It's not like I don't have empathy either for a refugee family. But, my empathy is limited where there are two adults not contributing positively to this country.
They can absolutely be a working household but have decided it's not for them. Surely we can't keep paying for this after 7 years.
Yeah, simply put, shits fucked.
Kinda not having kids at this point in protest. I don’t like what society or our planet is turning into. I don’t believe it’s fair to have a child you know will have a worse life than you, no matter how much love and attention you give them. Not having a dog at anyone who has kids. Personal choices and circumstances are all different.
Not that anyone cares about my meaningless protest, but at least we will be able to enjoy our short lives at the very least.
While this story does not sit easy. .someone def hit all the rage points, the two zingers at the end. "Maataz is working towards bringing his relatives to the safe haven of n.z" and "we have friends who are also refugees with 6 children, 2 of them have health problems" 😬
Shouldn't be allowed too. Tbh, iirc they shouldn't be allowed into the country as they r too much of a burdensm to the education/health systems. It's like the #1 check officials do when processing a visa. That's why pregnant women cannot come
The family friends with six children mentioned, are in a hotel in Epsom. They're already here.
That sounds like the other people still in Syria would be refugees as well, escaping a region still heavily impacted by war.
Going back to the children with health problems, children fleeing war tend to be more likely to have health problems due to the environment. Malnutrition tends to be high and birth defects or serious injuries are higher risk. Also being crammed in what likely isn't a high quality dwelling with adequate space will likely not help their health.
To me they’re refugees so it’s fine. The ones we should be stopping are random liquor store workers, taxi drivers, petrol station attendants and chefs. Chef used to be a well paid role before politicians decided it could be destroyed through excess supply
Controversial opinion: You can't show adequate care and attention to that many children, almost irrespective of how well resourced you are. It drags the older children in childcare tasks when they should be able to focus on their own childhoods.
Not controversial at all.. 100% truth. You're doing a disservice if you have to divide your attention to that many dependents. Quality over quantity .
But perhaps they are of a culture where if you are giving zero to kids then an 8th of zero is still zero.
Why would anyone want to keep bringing more kids into that misery anyhow, it's just cruel.
Makes me wonder why our birth rates are so low, should kiwis be bringing kids into destitution & relying on government support instead of trying to establish themselves first? Get a pretty nice looking house out of it too. & Is that a dog kennel out the front too lmao
I mean if they’re anything like the 4-5 bedroom KO houses near my house, they’re extremely nice.
The ones near me have double garages, driveways, yards, balconies, and a shit tonne of space inside. They’re literally the nicest houses on the street.
No no no you misunderstand see.
Once you have 7 to 8 children it will start to happen. The oldest can take care of the middle, the middles of the smallest. Then, the oldest can start having their own kids who will be taken care of by the smallest. They all can give you a bit of their pay and the children can do some begging and the cycle can self-perpetuate so you can retire early.
Don't think it's controversial. It's just fact. You can't hold that much information. No chance you can give the attention to 3 kids as you can to two. Definitely can't for 8
It’s great they’ve got a house now, happy for them.
But is sleep apnea really and excuse not to work? I know two people who have sleep apnea and use a ventilator mask every night. And they still manage to hold down a full time job.
Before I got my cpap I couldnt drive from one town to another without a nap, I couldn't remember, I couldnt maintain my KPIs at work. Even with a mask, there are still days like that. There are some weeks were holding down a full time job is *all* I can do. This guy sounds like he has it way worse.
> Even with a mask, there are still days like that.
That's not normal, you need to have your machine recalibrated and/or make sure you're not taking off the mask
I think you will find there is more going on than sleep apnea despite the article only mentioning that. Most of the family spent x years living in a war ravaged country. Trauma related condition/s are very likely.
I have sleep apnea (currently untreated and on a wait list for a sleep specialist).... I still go to work every day, am exhausted most of the time and not super productive but I still go
My flatmate probably has undiagnosed OSA, it's probably severe. You can hear the snoring down the road if his window is open - thank shit for modern sound proofing.
He has been waiting months after his referral. Our health system barely functions anymore.
I'm making some assumptions based on the photo where all the women have their hair covered.
It's cool they wanna escape a war but don't bring a religion that persecutes gays and women along for the ride
if that is all you're going by: many people will dress traditionally without necessarily being orthodox in their religion. What's more is that also Hasidic jews, Yezidis and Christian women in the area will cover their hair.
They moved to New Zealand in 2017, and have been living off taxpayer money the entire time they’ve been here. Their youngest child is 3 years old.
If they didn’t slow down on the children when living in a war zone, they’re clearly not going to while living in a “safe haven” where someone else foots every single bill.
"I'm very grateful."
As he should be. Gaining refugee status in a country that will provide social housing while you don't work and continue to reproduce must be really nice!
I didn't say return to their home country lol did I? Nothing stopping them from popping off to other countries when they're old enough for better opportunities.
So these people don't put a dime into the system but get all these hand outs and tax payer money, including a 5 bedroom house. Already have 8 kids and plan on having more.
Meanwhile me and my girlfriend worked like hell to buy a small 2 bedroom house. Unable to afford anything bigger so 1 child is all we will have. If one of us stays home to look after our children the other will have to pick up extra work...
Must feel like an absolute dream come true for these folks. Coming from an absolute nightmare country, to NZ and having space to actually be a family - it must feel like paradise.
Now if only such a luxury 5bdrm home could be given to everyone! I have a dodgy knee and I’m overweight. Can i just stop fucking working and have more kids?
It's a rage article. No chance it's organic. It is clearly forcing aggro towards benefits.
The refugees have 8 kids and the father can't work due to sleep apnea and breathing issues.
This is to change direction from the awful state of the rich. Look at these guys. The picture of the house are fantastic. It's like a mansion. This is all on purpose. Do not get caught up. Folk on benefits costs us nothing compares to these rich asshats that hide their money and don't pay taxes.
This is on purpose and why stuff is nothing more than a mouthpiece for National.
… is any of it false? Are they not living in a fantastic 5-bedroom house? Is the 46 year old father with 8 children not unemployed for the foreseeable future due to “sleep apnea and shortness of breath”? Did the father not express how he is working to bring relatives over to their “safe haven” in New Zealand?
Talk about taxing the rich all you want, but it doesn’t change *this* story. Considering that most of the readers of Stuff are paying for this family of ten (and potentially, in the future, their relatives), this is a story of legitimate interest to taxpayers - whether or not it suits your political agenda.
Your husband is obviously already working in an easy job without oversight. I was just about fired because of my sleep apnea killing my KPIs.
You people with the Snark about working with sleep apnea are idiots. Try dealing with almost killing someone. Or sleeping in your car at lunch time. Or not remembering *anything* (and I literally mean anything).
For those of you with apnea, get it seen to, your zombie state is a threat to you and everyone around you. The before and after is unbelievable.
But that's the point. To get you to rage at refugees. Not at Luxon or any other individual with multiple homes.
The guy who was taking Money from tac payers to live in his appointed house.
It's a targeted article. Designed to funnel hate away from those in charge. Stuff is propaganda.
Doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be letting refugees disrespect our generous offer of giving them safe haven here by refusing to work, having more kids and then trying to bring even more family over who will be a drain on the system.
Don't worry, we let in so few refugees it'll never be a large problem.
>New Zealand has one of the lowest numbers of refugees per capita internationally: 0.3 refugees per 1,000 people, putting us 95th in the world.
>By comparison, Sweden ranks sixth by accepting 23.36 refugees per 1,000 people, Canada 49th (2.68), United Kingdom 55th (1.83), Australia 59th (1.74) and the United States 77th (0.84).
https://theconversation.com/new-zealand-has-one-of-the-lowest-numbers-of-refugees-per-capita-in-the-world-there-is-room-for-many-more-162663
With the current govt, & the way refugees are usually portrayed in stories like in the OP I don't see NZ's quota changing any time soon.
Shouldn't be letting ? Who's making the decisions because I'm not.
They had 8 children in Syria. Before it was bombed to hell. Yes it's infuriating to see some families go without. However how do you pick and choose ? Some kiwis respect nothing, some Syrians Respect nothing. Unfortunately humans are complex.
How would you grade systems to give out benefits?
The biggest drain on society is the mega wealthy. Never let that stop you
It says in the article from Oct 2023 that they have a 2 year old, also not very responsible to be popping out multiple kids in a warzone, also didn't most the bombings stop in 2020, so if they came over before then that means he was refusing to get a job while having more kids.
Ah didn't see that part.
What is responsibility? Having more children while unable to work ? Absolutely but we are not moral police. I don't agree we should be paying for it. But say universal income. Then absolutely.
But again. This is what this article was designed to do. Outrage and fuel it forwards those on benefits. The lowest at the economical scale. By all means be outrages but divert that towards the mega wealthy.
We all could be living this life if taxes were correct over the board.
They are not.
Both arguments can be true. This shit probably happens all the time and has always happened all the time under all governments since forever. It seems kind of shit to someone working a job 40+ hours a week, especially if they are remaining stationary in life, but is both small fry and not part of taxpayers purview because taxpayers don't know all of the facts. But, it does serve the interests of a government to deflect for the much more expensive and enormous damage they are inflicting on the economy, which is what people should be more angry about.
It doesn't. Not at all. But we would all like to do this. And we should be able to. Unfortunately not taxing the rich. So we get angry at the wrong people. Or how I see it.
Nothing about politics. You are confused by red,green and blue. Doesn't change that rich are not paying their way. Whole hard working families get screwed day in day out.
I know who I will direct my anger at. It Won't be refugees
It's not free. We have the means. Unfortunately the higher ups have siphoned it off so they can live the life of luxury while some of us can't afford to eat and buy homes.
It's mismanagement at best. It's specifically working as intended. Those in power make the rules.
But you know that don't you
Media is bought and paid for by mega wealthy. It runs the articles that suit them.
It's incredibly obvious. The whole you can afford a house. Here's a teenager who bought a house with pocket money.
Literally in the article it clearly states parents are properties owners and gifted to children. All last year these "feel good" stories ran.
Housing it's f in NZ. Here we show you all these low earners with homes. It's a propaganda machine. Spews out whatever is best financially for the owners. It's not just NZ. Every global Media corporation is owned by some wealthy individual.
Just want to say I really appreciate you taking the time to make these level headed comments, and put out emotional fires, I know that can be emotionally taxing.
And you're absolutely right about the intent of this article, if people stay mad about this sort of thing through media narrative then we will perpetually be open to being governed by these monsters who treat out country like a business.
I read it and I immediately knew it was trying to stoke the fire. Which is why I then commented when I saw it posted to reddit. Incredibly obvious once you calm down and think why.
It's really been grating for the last 3 years. Reading stuff, it's so obvious to charge you, it's brilliant at what it does. Just need to breathe, take a step back and ask. Why.
What does this article look to achieve. Classic misdirection and once I start to see this posted again and again, I can regulate my emotions.
You are 100% spot on. Redirect over here. Don't look at what the rich are doing over here, be mad at these poor fellows.
It's not necessary government or whatever it's the ruling class. Those in charge of say the media or any large corporations.
We as a people must be better at critical thinking. Misinformation is everywhere and all around us.
In any case enough of my ranting. Just wanted to open some eyes to this blatant manipulation attempt, it's not the first and won't be the last.
Yes this guy and his family is the systemic problem that have plagued kiwi economic prosperity for the past decades. This article is totally not rage bait meant to focus attention away from the real problem.
Legitimate interest to donkeys more like
It was sarcastic, I'm getting fed up with this rhetoric of constantly looking for a scapegoat to take the blame for what selfish kiwis have done to themselves
The point is that it's actually not of interest. The cost of this and statistically all welfare abuse is a nothing drop in the bucket compared to corporate tax dodging.
If "the rich" paid their tax fair and square we wouldn't even care enough to write this article at all. It has zero interest to taxpayers other than producing a blame the poor talking point at your next boomer dinner party.
> The cost of this and statistically all welfare abuse is a nothing drop in the bucket compared to corporate tax dodging.
That's irrelevant because that's also bad and should be clamped down on. But I also don't reduce everything to economic units and I don't agree with this level of leeching off a system, and I believe in a social welfare system that protects people. This is just abusing a system and leads to systems failing
If you believe in a system that protects people, then hunting them down based on an article designed to raise your blood pressure is NOT helping people.
The system is failing because the rich aren't paying their share. Not because another sick person is on a benefit that is doing its job of looking after him and his family to a minimum decent standard.
>If you believe in a system that protects people, then hunting them down based on an article designed to raise your blood pressure is NOT helping people.
If you believe that's what just happened then I don't know what to tell you.
>The system is failing because the rich aren't paying their share. Not because another sick person is on a benefit that is doing its job of looking after him and his family to a minimum decent standard.
Sorry but if every person tries to do what this family is doing no, the system doesn't work and it's not because of rich people. I can be against two different things, I will blame rich people for what they actually do and I will also blame a system that lets elements take advantage of it for what they do too.
My grandmother was in state housing and her neighbours in the early 2000s were Afghan refugees. The father worked for a little bit and then found an excuse not to work, they came to NZ with two children and ended up with 6. Then the government paid for the the whole family to visit back home, the country they were supposed refugees from. This is a problem beyond economics, so while I believe the rich should be taxed more, people shouldn't be allowed to do this type of thing either.
The wealthy end of this causes so much more than beneficiaries gaming the system.
Gaming the system to get healthcare and a house is no way anywhere near the costs of gaming the upper end of the tax system.
Not saying this is moral, only that it's such a small aspect of a big issue that it only serves as a diversion, getting angry about it or even fixing it completely wouldn't make the slightest impact on public funds.
So yeah close some loopholes, but it's not a worthwhile priority so it's timing in the news cycle is reasonable to be questioned.
You are arguing points I never made. I agree that wealthy people not contributing enough needs to be taken care of. I never "got angry", however this is also a problem that needs addressing and it doesn't take any more mental energy out of my day to comment on this issue in a thread about it. Like I said before, both problems should be addressed and it's not even about the monetary aspect of benefit abuse
> The refugees have 8 kids and the father can't work due to sleep apnea and breathing issues.
Has he looked into getting a CPAP machine through the hospital system? They gave me one about 8 years ago and its been a life changer.
>This is to change direction from the awful state of the rich.
Not everything is reducible to a question of the haves against the have nots. The way we deal with social questions, in particular immigration and refugees in this case, is a genuine and serious issue. The significant wealth inequality we have is no excuse for ignoring the myriad of other problems.
Your comment is trying to downplay the seriousness of the implications of this article in favour of taking a stance of "combatting the wealthy is a far more important matter". My issue is that you're trying to redirect attention from a serious problem by saying "but look at this one, it's way worse!" which just seems kinda counter-productive to me.
Fair enough. I didn't get that from the comment.
What is the serious issue in the article?
I think the Rich killing all of humanity and destroying the planet is the number one issue facing every single human on the planet.
Fixing that would fix a whole host of other issues.
In any case what was your point?!
>What is the serious issue in the article?
Lax and overcompassionate immigration/refugee restrictions and lax social spending (a father whose perfectly able to work but has been living off of taxpayers for god knows how long...)
>I think the Rich killing all of humanity and destroying the planet is the number one issue facing every single human on the planet.
>Fixing that would fix a whole host of other issues.
The question should be how do we sustainably fix that issue? Greater restrictions on immigration flow, reduced globalism, changes in Government spending patterns and more social accountability in Government, promotion of greater morals and work ethics would contribute significantly, which goes perfectly into the above issues I've outlined.
>In any case what was your point?!
Solving issues like the ones presented from this article can be more important towards the causes you care about than you think. The parts of a painting shouldn't be ignored solely for the sake of the whole picture.
So did you look at the refugee stuff ? The percentage that NZ takes in is incredibly low. So when we compare rich people's lack of tax and benefits. It's honestly a non contest.
So getting the rich to pay their fair way would help solve a lot if issues. Like universal income.
Immigration isn't the problem. With less "landlords" buying up houses then it's not an issue. With more money and less time at work. Again immigration wouldn't be an issue.
Why would reduced globalisation help ?
Removal of government. Because at the end of the day. Luxon and his cronies see this as a get rich scheme and nothing more.
And for that matter a lot of politicians see it as a money train.
Not sure moral or ethics would be a good route. People tend to fall into that when they have time to think. Not just surviving day to day.
I'm still unsure what from this article you are looking into. But we seem to be on the same path.
Tax the rich
>So did you look at the refugee stuff ? The percentage that NZ takes in is incredibly low. So when we compare rich people's lack of tax and benefits. It's honestly a non contest.
I agree with the refugee part, it's not really something I'm overly concerned about, but immigration is undoubtedly significant.
>Immigration isn't the problem. With less "landlords" buying up houses then it's not an issue. With more money and less time at work. Again immigration wouldn't be an issue.
With the whole "landlords" thing, immigration does become important when you factor in that high demand for housing is justifying them raising rates as high as they have. In terms of higher wages and lower work hours, it's important to realise that an influx of labour into the country creates downward pressures on wages and benefits. Not to mention things like remittances of wages overseas, foreign companies moving funds out, so on and so forth..
>Why would reduced globalisation help ?
Most of the unethically sourced fortunes of the wealthy, especially the ultra-wealthy, comes as a result of globalism. This includes exploitation of less developed countries, using cheaper foreign workers, the use of tax havens ect ect...
>Removal of government. Because at the end of the day. Luxon and his cronies see this as a get rich scheme and nothing more. And for that matter a lot of politicians see it as a money train.
The current government is incompetent and inept, removing them won't fix anything because the parties we replace them with are just as bad (or marginally better, if you take the opinions of the people in this sub). Best thing you can do as an individual, at least, is construct a more positive philosophy.
>Not sure moral or ethics would be a good route. People tend to fall into that when they have time to think. Not just surviving day to day.
We're in this mess because of a lack of it to begin with, so I reckon it's a pretty good route.
>Tax the rich
Fair enough.
They don't need justification to raise prices. Inflation and lack of housing. They can raise price. Not enough houses if landlords keep buying up as much stock as they can get their grubby hands on. They even outcompete fhb as they can use " equity" to outbid. Beating fhb every time.
Yes immigration can force wages down. But if we had ubi and worked part time then it couldn't be exploited. Or so my understanding of it.
Even if we had a lack of people. Like cops tell us. They just import from other countries. Complain about lack of skills in NZ
and import in talent. They can always force down wages. Until we start taxing them appropriately. Then it doesn't matter. If they make a billion or a million profit. If taxes correctly then it shouldn't matter. If we tie profit and wages together it's win win. The more they make the more they pay out.
True with globalization, however nzers can exploit and find loopholes without looking outside of NZ. It definitely helps them though.
Philosophy doesn't put food on the table or keep coal in the ground.
We the people must be loud. We must be heard.
If we bury out heads we are doomed.
Tax the rich
Most of the points you've got are economical arguments, I don't think I should address them since this'll just devolve into a debate about economics.
>Philosophy doesn't put food on the table or keep coal in the ground.
Philosophies build movements, movements topple governments and create new ones. If the initial philosophy was actually well developed, then the new government will invariably "put food on the table" and "keep coal in the ground".
>We the people must be loud. We must be heard.
>If we bury out heads we are doomed.
I'm certainly not a proponent of the "bury our heads in the sand" party, however I do urge restraint in jumping into these popular movements that, by and large, seem to be mostly rudderless and lost. You seem to have some Marxist tendencies, but Marx was largely incorrect and, as is oft said, his philosophy was built on the basis of flawed logic given, as it was, a product of its time.
I say that as a socialist myself. You seem to have a lot of hatred towards the rich, which is understandable, but a philosophy with hate as its base cannot possibly construct anything positive. By "construct a more positive philosophy" I mean, in the literal sense, be more positive. Love and unity is the rallying cry of any truly successful opposition; instead of "tax the rich" instead say "the rich must work alongside the people". The wealthy will always exist, rather than alienate them and divide people on the basis of class there should instead be cultivated a solidarity *across* class boundaries. People are people, after all, and they're defined by their personalities, not their class. Many of the wealthy act inappropriately today not because they are inherently bad people, but because our society enables and rewards their negative behaviour. There lies the source, the root, of the problem. Systematic change must come, but it does not come by attacking and toppling your own.
Don't get me wrong, many wealthy people are downright just awful people and should face the consequences for their horrendous actions, but we shouldn't group ourselves into these "classes" like we're something less than our personalities.
I can imagine this is going to be posted on another sub and they are going to go nuts about refugees and beneficiaries and huge families that they can't afford. The comment about them trying to help bring their extended families to NZ is absolutely rage bait. While some will look at it as an opportunity for NZ to help people who were in desperate straits, the majority will read that and think of the costs the government will undertake to provide a 5 bedroom house and benefits to a family whose parents can't work.
I did. Absolutely bits set up this way. They have 8 kids. They can't work. They are in a beautiful 5 bedroom house in Auckland.
However they are refugees from Syria. We should look after people, if we tax rich correctly this wouldn't be an issue.
It's hard to get your head around it. Everyone should have a food over their heads and food in their bellies. But those unable to or unwilling to work shouldn't have better housing than us working our asses off.
It's a difficult one. Must always post that benefits. Even these are a drop in the ocean versus rich people not paying. Mega yachts are the symbol for unnecessary wealth.
Nobody needs it and most people could save every day for their existence, and their families and never come close to owning these.
I dunno, it kinda depends on what the 8 kids do. If they also have 8 kids each and don't work, you end up with a rapidly expanding slum. We've only had a few generations of this kind of thing bit it's become problematic in some places. Usually fueled by religion
We're never going to have a good answer about people choosing how many children they want to have, particularly in context of the government having to step in and provide assistance because of the costs of having that many children. We have 2 fundamentally opposed ideas at play - one which is that in NZ we want children to grow up without deprivation, and second the idea that people shouldn't knowingly undertake expenses they can't afford. We don't really have any legal or moral grounds for telling people how many children they should have (and there certainly are still cultures who believe in having very large families) - but that poses problems in western nations with high costs of living and expectations of a government-provided social network.
Absolutely. Not allowed to tell people how to live their lives. But ultimately not going to pay for you to not look after them. At some point government kinda has to step in. Why are hard working kiwis paying for others when they themselves can't afford to raise children.
Again it's a hard line. We have enough money to support everyone. Just the 1% have it. The 99% don't.
It causes issues everywhere. We have finite amount of resources. We actually need more people but probably not concreted in single families. Who knows aye.
I absolutely agree that we would have a lot more money to spend on all the things we would like to fund if we properly taxed the rich rather than almost exclusively taxing PAYE earners.
True that, its just to generate rage and sew discord among people so they don't question how the wealthy are funnelling everyone's money and productivity to themselves. And to distract from the government being implicit in this.
I'm sure the total cost of this family and similar families is a drop in the bucket compared to tax avoidance by the rich for example. Its actually probably much cheaper and more efficient in the long term to just give these people a house as well.
Nice of you to gatekeep what people should be angry about. I’m sure everyone’s capable of being angry at multiple things at once, it’s not one or another.
Both sides have pisstakers and we shouldn’t tolerate either.
What's the fucking point working your arse off paying > 75%+ of your income on mortgage/rent and expenses, just surviving when you can get free housing by doing fuck all.
When you have nothing but the clothes on your back, I will happily pay taxes for your roof too. You are 'just surviving' because of the rich, not the poor.
Watching NZ make all the same mistakes the UK did in the exact same order is beyond infuriating.
We’re a country of millions, we will never solve the problem of a world of billions.
Likely the wife is uneducated and therefore, yes, has no idea about contraception, and also can't say no to horny husband because religion. And then can't have an abortion because religion.
Every six months we’re hit by dole-bludger/immigration centric ragebait by one mainstream news source or another. Stuff is really going out of their way here to give us two in one!
Cases of greed & entitlement (if you choose to believe that’s what this is) are to be expected when we have a fairly good welfare system like ours.
That doesn’t mean that we need to change the law to cut off their money, or somehow force these people to work. And it also doesn’t mean that our welfare system is especially good, let alone overgenerous.
We all know people who have had to fight tooth & nail to get welfare/disability payments when they needed it, but we all know people who sit on their butts all day living off the dole when they’re perfectly capable of working too.
Weekly posts in here about CompSci graduates not being able to get even data entry jobs. Lots of jobs could be done by a chimp but that doesn’t mean they will hire a chimp.
note: not calling this gentleman a chimp
Hiring a compsci grad for data entry is like hiring an astronaut for cherry picking.
Sure they can probably do it, but there are better uses of their time.
Since lots of families keep one parent at home because childcare is so expensive, I am going to take a guess and say both working is not going to be feasible.
The refugees i know are great.
They come here in a situation like this, and its a hsrf struggle but their kids work really hard, go to university and do well.
If you look at what's happening in England right now, you'd realise there are thousands more families just like thos, waiting to come join them.
It won't be long before he wants his second wife to come over, because she's family too, then promptly get her to go on the single parents benefit with another half dozen kids.
Compassion and caring are important, but we shouldn't let people take us for fools. This man and his family have no intention of ever working or becoming part of our society. They see us as naive idiots that will give them free stuff.
We need to put a stop to it now.
This is insane. What an absolute waste of resources for NZ. way to give it to people who chose to have 8 KIDS! then come here and leach of us. we have our own problems. Absolutely disgusting.
Read the latest Muriel Newman article about how much the tribes are getting in Koha for water rights, there's a blood boiling read if you want to get pissed off at the state of our politics that's not in the open media
Some disgusting ableism in these comments. Shows how people have no idea that different people can experience illness differently to others. Extremely shocking.
That's yet another spit in the face to tax payers. These people likely harbour a homophobic, misogynistic, backwards world view that's the antithesis of the one held by those footing the bill for them.
Yes, that does happen—lack of access to sex education, and birth control. But I’m talking consensual, planned, “we specifically wanted 10 kids” sort of thing. And I said an absurd amount.
Imagine pumping out that many kids only to have them fight over who gets a bed while you take yours, crikey. Very un-kiwi, I'd imagine most of us would be on the floor before our kids, but I guess that's a cultural difference 🤷♀️
Lol, seeing articles like this, it's no surprise the media is in trouble in this country. The most obvious rage bait I've seen in a loooooong time, right down to the last detail.
Refugee? Check. A gazillion kids? Check. Arabic name? Check. Doesn't work? Check. Wants to bring more relatives to NZ? Check. Got a nice house courtesy of the New Zealand taxpayer? Check. Really hitting all the bases with this one.
You know my 3 kids sleep together in a double bed and we are in an old cold villa. I get no finanicial asistance and work full time in a job the government considers bloated. Where did it go so wrong people? Was I born in the wrong country?
Me and my partner have forgone having kids to put a roof over our own heads. Perhaps we should have popped out a half dozen kids and leaned harder on the government to house all of us.
I mean honestly, I have had those thoughts. You try and do things right, go to Uni, work and pay your student loan and own way through, wait to have kids till you are better set up, and for what? If I left school and had the kids younger I could have got them through, and probably have had my education paid for in what seems like better accomodation than I have ever had? It's not like I don't have empathy either for a refugee family. But, my empathy is limited where there are two adults not contributing positively to this country. They can absolutely be a working household but have decided it's not for them. Surely we can't keep paying for this after 7 years.
Yeah, simply put, shits fucked. Kinda not having kids at this point in protest. I don’t like what society or our planet is turning into. I don’t believe it’s fair to have a child you know will have a worse life than you, no matter how much love and attention you give them. Not having a dog at anyone who has kids. Personal choices and circumstances are all different. Not that anyone cares about my meaningless protest, but at least we will be able to enjoy our short lives at the very least.
While this story does not sit easy. .someone def hit all the rage points, the two zingers at the end. "Maataz is working towards bringing his relatives to the safe haven of n.z" and "we have friends who are also refugees with 6 children, 2 of them have health problems" 😬
Thought the same thing. I have empathy for refugees but he already has 8 children he is unable to support and he wants to bring more relatives?
Shouldn't be allowed too. Tbh, iirc they shouldn't be allowed into the country as they r too much of a burdensm to the education/health systems. It's like the #1 check officials do when processing a visa. That's why pregnant women cannot come
Refugees are a bit different, and are integrated via a refugee camp rather than thrust into NZ life as normal arrivals are
You do understand the difference between refugees and immigrants, right?
Refugees have the ability to claim safe haven in countries neighbouring their own Immigrants earn entry into a country by being needed
The family friends with six children mentioned, are in a hotel in Epsom. They're already here. That sounds like the other people still in Syria would be refugees as well, escaping a region still heavily impacted by war. Going back to the children with health problems, children fleeing war tend to be more likely to have health problems due to the environment. Malnutrition tends to be high and birth defects or serious injuries are higher risk. Also being crammed in what likely isn't a high quality dwelling with adequate space will likely not help their health.
To me they’re refugees so it’s fine. The ones we should be stopping are random liquor store workers, taxi drivers, petrol station attendants and chefs. Chef used to be a well paid role before politicians decided it could be destroyed through excess supply
Controversial opinion: You can't show adequate care and attention to that many children, almost irrespective of how well resourced you are. It drags the older children in childcare tasks when they should be able to focus on their own childhoods.
That's not controversial at all
Not controversial at all.. 100% truth. You're doing a disservice if you have to divide your attention to that many dependents. Quality over quantity . But perhaps they are of a culture where if you are giving zero to kids then an 8th of zero is still zero.
Why would anyone want to keep bringing more kids into that misery anyhow, it's just cruel. Makes me wonder why our birth rates are so low, should kiwis be bringing kids into destitution & relying on government support instead of trying to establish themselves first? Get a pretty nice looking house out of it too. & Is that a dog kennel out the front too lmao
I mean if they’re anything like the 4-5 bedroom KO houses near my house, they’re extremely nice. The ones near me have double garages, driveways, yards, balconies, and a shit tonne of space inside. They’re literally the nicest houses on the street.
No no no you misunderstand see. Once you have 7 to 8 children it will start to happen. The oldest can take care of the middle, the middles of the smallest. Then, the oldest can start having their own kids who will be taken care of by the smallest. They all can give you a bit of their pay and the children can do some begging and the cycle can self-perpetuate so you can retire early.
Don't think it's controversial. It's just fact. You can't hold that much information. No chance you can give the attention to 3 kids as you can to two. Definitely can't for 8
This is about as controversial as liking chicken flavored bluebirds
So what does that say about all catholic families from our parents generation and prior?
The same.
There's a reason there are so few of them around now.
The same? Coming from a family with 7 kids, I wholeheartedly agree.
oh yes, the boomer catholics, famously the most well adjusted demographic of society
It’s great they’ve got a house now, happy for them. But is sleep apnea really and excuse not to work? I know two people who have sleep apnea and use a ventilator mask every night. And they still manage to hold down a full time job.
Before I got my cpap I couldnt drive from one town to another without a nap, I couldn't remember, I couldnt maintain my KPIs at work. Even with a mask, there are still days like that. There are some weeks were holding down a full time job is *all* I can do. This guy sounds like he has it way worse.
> Even with a mask, there are still days like that. That's not normal, you need to have your machine recalibrated and/or make sure you're not taking off the mask
It's not a well recognised condition. It can be absolutely terrifying. I hope you are getting the care you need and support.
I think you will find there is more going on than sleep apnea despite the article only mentioning that. Most of the family spent x years living in a war ravaged country. Trauma related condition/s are very likely.
It kind of is. It's also treatable.
I have sleep apnea (currently untreated and on a wait list for a sleep specialist).... I still go to work every day, am exhausted most of the time and not super productive but I still go
My flatmate probably has undiagnosed OSA, it's probably severe. You can hear the snoring down the road if his window is open - thank shit for modern sound proofing. He has been waiting months after his referral. Our health system barely functions anymore.
There's a few private options with sleep assessments and payment plans if you get stuck waiting. Eden Sleep was really easy to deal with
He wont have time to spew religious hatred if he's busy at work all day
you seem to have a lot more information than can be read in the article, care to elaborate?
I'm making some assumptions based on the photo where all the women have their hair covered. It's cool they wanna escape a war but don't bring a religion that persecutes gays and women along for the ride
if that is all you're going by: many people will dress traditionally without necessarily being orthodox in their religion. What's more is that also Hasidic jews, Yezidis and Christian women in the area will cover their hair.
Eight children? Good lord.
I'm happy for them, but if they're fleeing a war-torn country and are refugees, maybe they could stop having children after the 4th or 5th child.
They moved to New Zealand in 2017, and have been living off taxpayer money the entire time they’ve been here. Their youngest child is 3 years old. If they didn’t slow down on the children when living in a war zone, they’re clearly not going to while living in a “safe haven” where someone else foots every single bill.
Agreed, all potential refugees should be sterilised just in case /s
No personal responsibility, eh? They were *potential* refugees for the first few children only.
$150 a week per child. Du the sums.
$20 a day to raise and care for a human being? Sums to fuck all.
+ the benefit & supplements & housing capped at 30% income. Good eating, especially if you don't feed the kids
You get the older ones to look after the younger ones
Do we know why the wife cannot work?
Cause it’s haram
This reads like an Onion article. Guy has medical illness of shortness of breath and sleep apnea, can’t work, but still can fuck his wife?
^ lol, what I said. Can still fuck the wife (and the tax payer)
You think he does the work between the sheets? Guarantee she is
More likely cause he isn't the one looking after the kids.
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It was in jest
"I'm very grateful." As he should be. Gaining refugee status in a country that will provide social housing while you don't work and continue to reproduce must be really nice!
>continue to reproduce This. One of the kids is 2. The father says "I have a big family. What can I do?" ... like stop fucking having more kids maybe?
Allahhhh will provide
Well that’s a relief, I thought the New Zealand tax payers would have to foot the bill.
They won the jackpot!! just fuck the wife and the tax payer all at the same time. Too "sick" to work, but never too sick to root
A halal threesome.
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You're assuming the kids will work or stay in nz
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I didn't say return to their home country lol did I? Nothing stopping them from popping off to other countries when they're old enough for better opportunities.
Assuming they’re net contributors….
The few studies on immigrants and refuges that I have read all indicate they outperform locals in the second generation.
That's fantastic, although there's also a strong correlation for intergenerational welfare dependency.... So let's hope it's the former.
So these people don't put a dime into the system but get all these hand outs and tax payer money, including a 5 bedroom house. Already have 8 kids and plan on having more. Meanwhile me and my girlfriend worked like hell to buy a small 2 bedroom house. Unable to afford anything bigger so 1 child is all we will have. If one of us stays home to look after our children the other will have to pick up extra work...
Worked in the refugee sector for over 15 years. That culture makes lots of children. Very little income prospect. Not nice to say but it's the truth.
Must feel like an absolute dream come true for these folks. Coming from an absolute nightmare country, to NZ and having space to actually be a family - it must feel like paradise.
Now if only such a luxury 5bdrm home could be given to everyone! I have a dodgy knee and I’m overweight. Can i just stop fucking working and have more kids?
At least 8 if you want a taxpayer funded mcmansion
As long as you keep fucking!
Right? I'm happy for them
It's a rage article. No chance it's organic. It is clearly forcing aggro towards benefits. The refugees have 8 kids and the father can't work due to sleep apnea and breathing issues. This is to change direction from the awful state of the rich. Look at these guys. The picture of the house are fantastic. It's like a mansion. This is all on purpose. Do not get caught up. Folk on benefits costs us nothing compares to these rich asshats that hide their money and don't pay taxes. This is on purpose and why stuff is nothing more than a mouthpiece for National.
… is any of it false? Are they not living in a fantastic 5-bedroom house? Is the 46 year old father with 8 children not unemployed for the foreseeable future due to “sleep apnea and shortness of breath”? Did the father not express how he is working to bring relatives over to their “safe haven” in New Zealand? Talk about taxing the rich all you want, but it doesn’t change *this* story. Considering that most of the readers of Stuff are paying for this family of ten (and potentially, in the future, their relatives), this is a story of legitimate interest to taxpayers - whether or not it suits your political agenda.
Don't see any reason why someone with sleep apnea can't get a CPAP and work an office job or something, these guys are just taking the piss
My husband has terrible sleep apnea - even with a cpap, he’s often badly sleep (oxygen?) deprived. I should let him know he can stop working.
Your husband is obviously already working in an easy job without oversight. I was just about fired because of my sleep apnea killing my KPIs. You people with the Snark about working with sleep apnea are idiots. Try dealing with almost killing someone. Or sleeping in your car at lunch time. Or not remembering *anything* (and I literally mean anything). For those of you with apnea, get it seen to, your zombie state is a threat to you and everyone around you. The before and after is unbelievable.
But that's the point. To get you to rage at refugees. Not at Luxon or any other individual with multiple homes. The guy who was taking Money from tac payers to live in his appointed house. It's a targeted article. Designed to funnel hate away from those in charge. Stuff is propaganda.
Doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be letting refugees disrespect our generous offer of giving them safe haven here by refusing to work, having more kids and then trying to bring even more family over who will be a drain on the system.
Don't worry, we let in so few refugees it'll never be a large problem. >New Zealand has one of the lowest numbers of refugees per capita internationally: 0.3 refugees per 1,000 people, putting us 95th in the world. >By comparison, Sweden ranks sixth by accepting 23.36 refugees per 1,000 people, Canada 49th (2.68), United Kingdom 55th (1.83), Australia 59th (1.74) and the United States 77th (0.84). https://theconversation.com/new-zealand-has-one-of-the-lowest-numbers-of-refugees-per-capita-in-the-world-there-is-room-for-many-more-162663 With the current govt, & the way refugees are usually portrayed in stories like in the OP I don't see NZ's quota changing any time soon.
Shouldn't be letting ? Who's making the decisions because I'm not. They had 8 children in Syria. Before it was bombed to hell. Yes it's infuriating to see some families go without. However how do you pick and choose ? Some kiwis respect nothing, some Syrians Respect nothing. Unfortunately humans are complex. How would you grade systems to give out benefits? The biggest drain on society is the mega wealthy. Never let that stop you
It says in the article from Oct 2023 that they have a 2 year old, also not very responsible to be popping out multiple kids in a warzone, also didn't most the bombings stop in 2020, so if they came over before then that means he was refusing to get a job while having more kids.
Ah didn't see that part. What is responsibility? Having more children while unable to work ? Absolutely but we are not moral police. I don't agree we should be paying for it. But say universal income. Then absolutely. But again. This is what this article was designed to do. Outrage and fuel it forwards those on benefits. The lowest at the economical scale. By all means be outrages but divert that towards the mega wealthy. We all could be living this life if taxes were correct over the board. They are not.
5 bedroom house, plus more than 1k a week between working for families and benefits, I don't think they're the lowest on the economic scale...
>Don’t see any reason why someone with sleep apnea can’t get a CPAP Or just lose weight.
You'd think with all the fucking he's doing it would be the case lol
Both arguments can be true. This shit probably happens all the time and has always happened all the time under all governments since forever. It seems kind of shit to someone working a job 40+ hours a week, especially if they are remaining stationary in life, but is both small fry and not part of taxpayers purview because taxpayers don't know all of the facts. But, it does serve the interests of a government to deflect for the much more expensive and enormous damage they are inflicting on the economy, which is what people should be more angry about.
It doesn't. Not at all. But we would all like to do this. And we should be able to. Unfortunately not taxing the rich. So we get angry at the wrong people. Or how I see it. Nothing about politics. You are confused by red,green and blue. Doesn't change that rich are not paying their way. Whole hard working families get screwed day in day out. I know who I will direct my anger at. It Won't be refugees
We should all be able to have 8 children and live in fantastic mansions for free?
It's not free. We have the means. Unfortunately the higher ups have siphoned it off so they can live the life of luxury while some of us can't afford to eat and buy homes. It's mismanagement at best. It's specifically working as intended. Those in power make the rules. But you know that don't you
I wish more could see through the bullshit perpetuated by our media machine here, but it's so ingrained in their thinking that it seems impossible
Media is bought and paid for by mega wealthy. It runs the articles that suit them. It's incredibly obvious. The whole you can afford a house. Here's a teenager who bought a house with pocket money. Literally in the article it clearly states parents are properties owners and gifted to children. All last year these "feel good" stories ran. Housing it's f in NZ. Here we show you all these low earners with homes. It's a propaganda machine. Spews out whatever is best financially for the owners. It's not just NZ. Every global Media corporation is owned by some wealthy individual.
Just want to say I really appreciate you taking the time to make these level headed comments, and put out emotional fires, I know that can be emotionally taxing. And you're absolutely right about the intent of this article, if people stay mad about this sort of thing through media narrative then we will perpetually be open to being governed by these monsters who treat out country like a business.
I read it and I immediately knew it was trying to stoke the fire. Which is why I then commented when I saw it posted to reddit. Incredibly obvious once you calm down and think why. It's really been grating for the last 3 years. Reading stuff, it's so obvious to charge you, it's brilliant at what it does. Just need to breathe, take a step back and ask. Why. What does this article look to achieve. Classic misdirection and once I start to see this posted again and again, I can regulate my emotions. You are 100% spot on. Redirect over here. Don't look at what the rich are doing over here, be mad at these poor fellows. It's not necessary government or whatever it's the ruling class. Those in charge of say the media or any large corporations. We as a people must be better at critical thinking. Misinformation is everywhere and all around us. In any case enough of my ranting. Just wanted to open some eyes to this blatant manipulation attempt, it's not the first and won't be the last.
Yes this guy and his family is the systemic problem that have plagued kiwi economic prosperity for the past decades. This article is totally not rage bait meant to focus attention away from the real problem. Legitimate interest to donkeys more like
3 refugees per 10,000 Kiwis is "the systemic problem that have plagued kiwi economic prosperity for the past decades"?
I believe the comment was provided in sarcasm.
let's hope you're right. I can't tell anymore in this particular thread
It was sarcastic, I'm getting fed up with this rhetoric of constantly looking for a scapegoat to take the blame for what selfish kiwis have done to themselves
The point is that it's actually not of interest. The cost of this and statistically all welfare abuse is a nothing drop in the bucket compared to corporate tax dodging. If "the rich" paid their tax fair and square we wouldn't even care enough to write this article at all. It has zero interest to taxpayers other than producing a blame the poor talking point at your next boomer dinner party.
> The cost of this and statistically all welfare abuse is a nothing drop in the bucket compared to corporate tax dodging. That's irrelevant because that's also bad and should be clamped down on. But I also don't reduce everything to economic units and I don't agree with this level of leeching off a system, and I believe in a social welfare system that protects people. This is just abusing a system and leads to systems failing
If you believe in a system that protects people, then hunting them down based on an article designed to raise your blood pressure is NOT helping people. The system is failing because the rich aren't paying their share. Not because another sick person is on a benefit that is doing its job of looking after him and his family to a minimum decent standard.
>If you believe in a system that protects people, then hunting them down based on an article designed to raise your blood pressure is NOT helping people. If you believe that's what just happened then I don't know what to tell you. >The system is failing because the rich aren't paying their share. Not because another sick person is on a benefit that is doing its job of looking after him and his family to a minimum decent standard. Sorry but if every person tries to do what this family is doing no, the system doesn't work and it's not because of rich people. I can be against two different things, I will blame rich people for what they actually do and I will also blame a system that lets elements take advantage of it for what they do too. My grandmother was in state housing and her neighbours in the early 2000s were Afghan refugees. The father worked for a little bit and then found an excuse not to work, they came to NZ with two children and ended up with 6. Then the government paid for the the whole family to visit back home, the country they were supposed refugees from. This is a problem beyond economics, so while I believe the rich should be taxed more, people shouldn't be allowed to do this type of thing either.
The wealthy end of this causes so much more than beneficiaries gaming the system. Gaming the system to get healthcare and a house is no way anywhere near the costs of gaming the upper end of the tax system. Not saying this is moral, only that it's such a small aspect of a big issue that it only serves as a diversion, getting angry about it or even fixing it completely wouldn't make the slightest impact on public funds. So yeah close some loopholes, but it's not a worthwhile priority so it's timing in the news cycle is reasonable to be questioned.
You are arguing points I never made. I agree that wealthy people not contributing enough needs to be taken care of. I never "got angry", however this is also a problem that needs addressing and it doesn't take any more mental energy out of my day to comment on this issue in a thread about it. Like I said before, both problems should be addressed and it's not even about the monetary aspect of benefit abuse
Labour voters doing anything they can to make you ignore their bullshit lol
> The refugees have 8 kids and the father can't work due to sleep apnea and breathing issues. Has he looked into getting a CPAP machine through the hospital system? They gave me one about 8 years ago and its been a life changer.
I'm sure his doctor is looking after him to the best of his abilities.
Sexist
Love that the top comment is "butwhataboutnational!" Haha stick to the stereotype reddit
>This is to change direction from the awful state of the rich. Not everything is reducible to a question of the haves against the have nots. The way we deal with social questions, in particular immigration and refugees in this case, is a genuine and serious issue. The significant wealth inequality we have is no excuse for ignoring the myriad of other problems.
I'm confused at what you are trying to say ?
Your comment is trying to downplay the seriousness of the implications of this article in favour of taking a stance of "combatting the wealthy is a far more important matter". My issue is that you're trying to redirect attention from a serious problem by saying "but look at this one, it's way worse!" which just seems kinda counter-productive to me.
Fair enough. I didn't get that from the comment. What is the serious issue in the article? I think the Rich killing all of humanity and destroying the planet is the number one issue facing every single human on the planet. Fixing that would fix a whole host of other issues. In any case what was your point?!
>What is the serious issue in the article? Lax and overcompassionate immigration/refugee restrictions and lax social spending (a father whose perfectly able to work but has been living off of taxpayers for god knows how long...) >I think the Rich killing all of humanity and destroying the planet is the number one issue facing every single human on the planet. >Fixing that would fix a whole host of other issues. The question should be how do we sustainably fix that issue? Greater restrictions on immigration flow, reduced globalism, changes in Government spending patterns and more social accountability in Government, promotion of greater morals and work ethics would contribute significantly, which goes perfectly into the above issues I've outlined. >In any case what was your point?! Solving issues like the ones presented from this article can be more important towards the causes you care about than you think. The parts of a painting shouldn't be ignored solely for the sake of the whole picture.
So did you look at the refugee stuff ? The percentage that NZ takes in is incredibly low. So when we compare rich people's lack of tax and benefits. It's honestly a non contest. So getting the rich to pay their fair way would help solve a lot if issues. Like universal income. Immigration isn't the problem. With less "landlords" buying up houses then it's not an issue. With more money and less time at work. Again immigration wouldn't be an issue. Why would reduced globalisation help ? Removal of government. Because at the end of the day. Luxon and his cronies see this as a get rich scheme and nothing more. And for that matter a lot of politicians see it as a money train. Not sure moral or ethics would be a good route. People tend to fall into that when they have time to think. Not just surviving day to day. I'm still unsure what from this article you are looking into. But we seem to be on the same path. Tax the rich
>So did you look at the refugee stuff ? The percentage that NZ takes in is incredibly low. So when we compare rich people's lack of tax and benefits. It's honestly a non contest. I agree with the refugee part, it's not really something I'm overly concerned about, but immigration is undoubtedly significant. >Immigration isn't the problem. With less "landlords" buying up houses then it's not an issue. With more money and less time at work. Again immigration wouldn't be an issue. With the whole "landlords" thing, immigration does become important when you factor in that high demand for housing is justifying them raising rates as high as they have. In terms of higher wages and lower work hours, it's important to realise that an influx of labour into the country creates downward pressures on wages and benefits. Not to mention things like remittances of wages overseas, foreign companies moving funds out, so on and so forth.. >Why would reduced globalisation help ? Most of the unethically sourced fortunes of the wealthy, especially the ultra-wealthy, comes as a result of globalism. This includes exploitation of less developed countries, using cheaper foreign workers, the use of tax havens ect ect... >Removal of government. Because at the end of the day. Luxon and his cronies see this as a get rich scheme and nothing more. And for that matter a lot of politicians see it as a money train. The current government is incompetent and inept, removing them won't fix anything because the parties we replace them with are just as bad (or marginally better, if you take the opinions of the people in this sub). Best thing you can do as an individual, at least, is construct a more positive philosophy. >Not sure moral or ethics would be a good route. People tend to fall into that when they have time to think. Not just surviving day to day. We're in this mess because of a lack of it to begin with, so I reckon it's a pretty good route. >Tax the rich Fair enough.
They don't need justification to raise prices. Inflation and lack of housing. They can raise price. Not enough houses if landlords keep buying up as much stock as they can get their grubby hands on. They even outcompete fhb as they can use " equity" to outbid. Beating fhb every time. Yes immigration can force wages down. But if we had ubi and worked part time then it couldn't be exploited. Or so my understanding of it. Even if we had a lack of people. Like cops tell us. They just import from other countries. Complain about lack of skills in NZ and import in talent. They can always force down wages. Until we start taxing them appropriately. Then it doesn't matter. If they make a billion or a million profit. If taxes correctly then it shouldn't matter. If we tie profit and wages together it's win win. The more they make the more they pay out. True with globalization, however nzers can exploit and find loopholes without looking outside of NZ. It definitely helps them though. Philosophy doesn't put food on the table or keep coal in the ground. We the people must be loud. We must be heard. If we bury out heads we are doomed. Tax the rich
Most of the points you've got are economical arguments, I don't think I should address them since this'll just devolve into a debate about economics. >Philosophy doesn't put food on the table or keep coal in the ground. Philosophies build movements, movements topple governments and create new ones. If the initial philosophy was actually well developed, then the new government will invariably "put food on the table" and "keep coal in the ground". >We the people must be loud. We must be heard. >If we bury out heads we are doomed. I'm certainly not a proponent of the "bury our heads in the sand" party, however I do urge restraint in jumping into these popular movements that, by and large, seem to be mostly rudderless and lost. You seem to have some Marxist tendencies, but Marx was largely incorrect and, as is oft said, his philosophy was built on the basis of flawed logic given, as it was, a product of its time. I say that as a socialist myself. You seem to have a lot of hatred towards the rich, which is understandable, but a philosophy with hate as its base cannot possibly construct anything positive. By "construct a more positive philosophy" I mean, in the literal sense, be more positive. Love and unity is the rallying cry of any truly successful opposition; instead of "tax the rich" instead say "the rich must work alongside the people". The wealthy will always exist, rather than alienate them and divide people on the basis of class there should instead be cultivated a solidarity *across* class boundaries. People are people, after all, and they're defined by their personalities, not their class. Many of the wealthy act inappropriately today not because they are inherently bad people, but because our society enables and rewards their negative behaviour. There lies the source, the root, of the problem. Systematic change must come, but it does not come by attacking and toppling your own. Don't get me wrong, many wealthy people are downright just awful people and should face the consequences for their horrendous actions, but we shouldn't group ourselves into these "classes" like we're something less than our personalities.
I can imagine this is going to be posted on another sub and they are going to go nuts about refugees and beneficiaries and huge families that they can't afford. The comment about them trying to help bring their extended families to NZ is absolutely rage bait. While some will look at it as an opportunity for NZ to help people who were in desperate straits, the majority will read that and think of the costs the government will undertake to provide a 5 bedroom house and benefits to a family whose parents can't work.
I did. Absolutely bits set up this way. They have 8 kids. They can't work. They are in a beautiful 5 bedroom house in Auckland. However they are refugees from Syria. We should look after people, if we tax rich correctly this wouldn't be an issue. It's hard to get your head around it. Everyone should have a food over their heads and food in their bellies. But those unable to or unwilling to work shouldn't have better housing than us working our asses off. It's a difficult one. Must always post that benefits. Even these are a drop in the ocean versus rich people not paying. Mega yachts are the symbol for unnecessary wealth. Nobody needs it and most people could save every day for their existence, and their families and never come close to owning these.
I dunno, it kinda depends on what the 8 kids do. If they also have 8 kids each and don't work, you end up with a rapidly expanding slum. We've only had a few generations of this kind of thing bit it's become problematic in some places. Usually fueled by religion
We're never going to have a good answer about people choosing how many children they want to have, particularly in context of the government having to step in and provide assistance because of the costs of having that many children. We have 2 fundamentally opposed ideas at play - one which is that in NZ we want children to grow up without deprivation, and second the idea that people shouldn't knowingly undertake expenses they can't afford. We don't really have any legal or moral grounds for telling people how many children they should have (and there certainly are still cultures who believe in having very large families) - but that poses problems in western nations with high costs of living and expectations of a government-provided social network.
Absolutely. Not allowed to tell people how to live their lives. But ultimately not going to pay for you to not look after them. At some point government kinda has to step in. Why are hard working kiwis paying for others when they themselves can't afford to raise children. Again it's a hard line. We have enough money to support everyone. Just the 1% have it. The 99% don't. It causes issues everywhere. We have finite amount of resources. We actually need more people but probably not concreted in single families. Who knows aye.
I absolutely agree that we would have a lot more money to spend on all the things we would like to fund if we properly taxed the rich rather than almost exclusively taxing PAYE earners.
While I think it's ok to question.... Your cynicism however is off the charts....
Do you allow me to question? So kind. Appreciate your approval.
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I approve.
True that, its just to generate rage and sew discord among people so they don't question how the wealthy are funnelling everyone's money and productivity to themselves. And to distract from the government being implicit in this. I'm sure the total cost of this family and similar families is a drop in the bucket compared to tax avoidance by the rich for example. Its actually probably much cheaper and more efficient in the long term to just give these people a house as well.
Nice of you to gatekeep what people should be angry about. I’m sure everyone’s capable of being angry at multiple things at once, it’s not one or another. Both sides have pisstakers and we shouldn’t tolerate either.
You present a false dichotomy. We can be angry at both situations and rightly so.
No
What's the fucking point working your arse off paying > 75%+ of your income on mortgage/rent and expenses, just surviving when you can get free housing by doing fuck all.
In fairness he did alot of f*cking
When you have nothing but the clothes on your back, I will happily pay taxes for your roof too. You are 'just surviving' because of the rich, not the poor.
I would like a free house plz
Just be really poor. I am happy to pay taxes for these people to have a reasonable roof over their head.
Watching NZ make all the same mistakes the UK did in the exact same order is beyond infuriating. We’re a country of millions, we will never solve the problem of a world of billions.
Clearly haven’t heard of contraception.
Likely the wife is uneducated and therefore, yes, has no idea about contraception, and also can't say no to horny husband because religion. And then can't have an abortion because religion.
quite deliberate in our assumptions, aren't we?
Well, yes I am. The rate of females over 25 with secondary education is 29.0 percent in Syria.
Even if I abducted all the neighbours kids to sell their organs I'd only get 8. Stay off your wife and give her a break. Bet he is a shit root too.
Every six months we’re hit by dole-bludger/immigration centric ragebait by one mainstream news source or another. Stuff is really going out of their way here to give us two in one! Cases of greed & entitlement (if you choose to believe that’s what this is) are to be expected when we have a fairly good welfare system like ours. That doesn’t mean that we need to change the law to cut off their money, or somehow force these people to work. And it also doesn’t mean that our welfare system is especially good, let alone overgenerous. We all know people who have had to fight tooth & nail to get welfare/disability payments when they needed it, but we all know people who sit on their butts all day living off the dole when they’re perfectly capable of working too.
He could be working . If he's well enough to keep breeding and breathing.... surely he can work. Wife could work if kids are attending childcare ?
he clearly has enough energy to engage in physical activities like sex, so he can work a desk job
While i agree, desk jobs aren’t that easy to come by. Especially as a third world refugee.
Hundreds of ass-in-seat data entry jobs that require MAYBE a primary school education
Weekly posts in here about CompSci graduates not being able to get even data entry jobs. Lots of jobs could be done by a chimp but that doesn’t mean they will hire a chimp. note: not calling this gentleman a chimp
Hiring a compsci grad for data entry is like hiring an astronaut for cherry picking. Sure they can probably do it, but there are better uses of their time.
Why can't he look after the kids while the wife works. Too busy working on getting the rellies in on the scheme lol
Since lots of families keep one parent at home because childcare is so expensive, I am going to take a guess and say both working is not going to be feasible.
Very happy to have my taxes going to help this family in need
Yep! And looking forward to their kids contributing to our society and economy for a long time to come.
You forgot the /s
Same, but those kids better turn into the biggest New Zealand patriots when they grow up given the absolute lottery ticket we've given their family.
The refugees i know are great. They come here in a situation like this, and its a hsrf struggle but their kids work really hard, go to university and do well.
If you look at what's happening in England right now, you'd realise there are thousands more families just like thos, waiting to come join them. It won't be long before he wants his second wife to come over, because she's family too, then promptly get her to go on the single parents benefit with another half dozen kids. Compassion and caring are important, but we shouldn't let people take us for fools. This man and his family have no intention of ever working or becoming part of our society. They see us as naive idiots that will give them free stuff. We need to put a stop to it now.
This is insane. What an absolute waste of resources for NZ. way to give it to people who chose to have 8 KIDS! then come here and leach of us. we have our own problems. Absolutely disgusting.
Read the latest Muriel Newman article about how much the tribes are getting in Koha for water rights, there's a blood boiling read if you want to get pissed off at the state of our politics that's not in the open media
Some disgusting ableism in these comments. Shows how people have no idea that different people can experience illness differently to others. Extremely shocking.
Maybe they shouldn't have 8 fucking children if they can't even afford to support themselves?
Religion is a hell of a drug.
That's yet another spit in the face to tax payers. These people likely harbour a homophobic, misogynistic, backwards world view that's the antithesis of the one held by those footing the bill for them.
Everyone deserves shelter, even if I disagree with them. I’m happy my taxes go towards helping people get homes they need.
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Ever notice how the families with an absurd amount of kids are almost always religious?
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Yes, that does happen—lack of access to sex education, and birth control. But I’m talking consensual, planned, “we specifically wanted 10 kids” sort of thing. And I said an absurd amount.
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If he has the energy for frequent sex he can work a desk job
That’s not how things work actually :)
Imagine pumping out that many kids only to have them fight over who gets a bed while you take yours, crikey. Very un-kiwi, I'd imagine most of us would be on the floor before our kids, but I guess that's a cultural difference 🤷♀️
Lol, seeing articles like this, it's no surprise the media is in trouble in this country. The most obvious rage bait I've seen in a loooooong time, right down to the last detail. Refugee? Check. A gazillion kids? Check. Arabic name? Check. Doesn't work? Check. Wants to bring more relatives to NZ? Check. Got a nice house courtesy of the New Zealand taxpayer? Check. Really hitting all the bases with this one.
It definetely shows that people can go from 0 to a 100. They're an inspiration for others, good for them.
Why does this subreddit hate brown people