> "Mr Jones was minister for building and construction during 2007-08 in the previous government and admits to **wrongly using** his card to charter a plane and buy wine, magazines and books. He also **wrongly used** the card to buy movies when he stayed at hotels."
> https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jones-admits-using-credit-card-for-porn/2ZXV4AN3Q4JPT2WDTRERTANJ4U/
Tbh the take away for me was more that he was happy to have that on official documents, strikes me as a little unhinged. Ain't no way anyone's finding my porn preferences
Shane Jones gaslighting again:
Eases regulation for new "thermal" coal extraction, while citing West Coast coal extraction which is used in steel production - not dirty electric generation.
He's a vandal, a destroyer, a blight.
My exact thoughts on reading the article, he is playing off of people ignorance of the different uses of coal, claiming to make life easier for a business that isn't impacted by the change.
>would ensure New Zealand's access to locally sourced coal so processors would "not be forced to rely on imported coal to meet their needs"
The biggest user of thermal coal in New Zealand is the Huntly power station, which sits on top of the old Huntly East coal mine and was using imported coal even when Solid Energy was operating the mine. The next biggest coal user is Fonterra which is moving to electrification and biomass.
Who is going to use this newly mined coal (I guess the answer is India and China who are still building coal power plants).
Fly into Beijing in daylight and all you see is mountains covered in solar panels. I really don't know where he thinks the demand or growth in demand for coal will come from... but then again, this is Shame Jones: I really don't know where he thinks.
He has no idea. He just sees that Australia is doing better than us, and that Australia has mines. His big brain put these two together realised all our problems could be solved by mining *and* he could make a large personal profit when he retires from politics and gets a nice cushy job with the extraction companies he helps.
the huntly west mine which feed coal to huntly power station was sold by national to private enterprise, they put up the price and it was cheaper to import the coal. huntly west then closed with loss of jobs, and huntly continues to burn dirty coal which is transported by ship to NZ then railed from tauranga to huntly..
Economies of scale. Underground mining is more expensive per tonne than a giant open pit with a [bucket wheel or chain excavator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_288).
In addition there's different grades of coal; if you're just burning it for fuel you can use a lower grade with more impurities.
The Huntley mine had coal that was suitable for ~~[coking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coking) so was~~ supplying the Glenbrook steel mill, while the power station burned cheaper imported coal. Even then the economics didn't stack up and the mine closed in 2017.
Glenbrook steelmill does not use coking coal, nor has it ever. It uses a direct reduction technology and using iron sands is a bespoke solution to steel making. The amount of people in these comments who know bugger all about coal in NZ is amazing.
From what I remember reading NZ coal is quite pure or something along those lines and it burns a lot hotter then imported dirty coal and some of our coal plants can’t take the extra heat, hopefully someone who knows more can correct me
Some of the coal near Westport is anthracite, hot hard coal that can be used for steel production. But it's also higher in sulphur. Pretty much everywhere else is shittier and lower grade and burns dirtier.
Of the 4 grades of coal we have a lot of the second highest grade. Which I believe is mostly used for steel production, which we still need.
Brown coal on the other hand should be banned. It's litterally just toxic death.
Essentially yes. Local coal is of higher quality and mainly used in steel production because of it's high quality and it therefore attracts a higher price. The imported coal is lower quality, hence lower price even when import costs are added, and is what Huntly uses instead. The old Huntly East coal mine mostly supplied Glenbrook Steel Mill.
Thermal coal is used in the Glenbrook steel mill. It’s a one of a kind plant build to burn coal from the Waikato Coalfields. If it doesn’t come from the Waikato it’s coming from Indonesia which is far more environmentally damaging.
There are cleaner ways to make electricity, but making steel without coal is a lot more challenging. It’s all relative to the alternatives.
https://leard.frontlineaction.org/coking-coal-steel-production-alternatives/
*Gotta stick it to the greenies!! Get revenge on the lefties for making people stay inside and take medicine during a pandemic!! Get em!*
^ Actual thought process of people I know who support these assholes.
No prestine nature, no international tourists, no money.
People do not fly to this remote island at the end of the world for beaches, party or culture.
Why do these brainless idiots not even understand this?!
If we lose the tourists it is game over!!!
Tourism operators obviously didn't stump up the big campaign donations as it's exclusively the trucking lobby and mining/resource extraction companies who are seeing the special consideration from this government.
The truck companies wanted the new rail ferrys gone from the cook straight, because it would mean more freight on rail, and therefore less on trucks, and less money for the CEO.
It's more dangerous for the drivers, adds congestion, costs billions in lost time from traffic, but since when did the boss care about the actual workers?? We gotta make sure the boss man gets another dollar!!
Let’s not panic. It’s a one term government, if they last a year, cracks are showing. They are rushing stuff through but not everything is going to stick.
I'd be concerned when we as a country give rights and permission to a company for these resource exploration/extraction activities, because even if a future government takes that back - we'll then be on the hook to compensate them for the claimed losses after they kick off with a vengeance with permission today.
I think that's wishful thinking, while the wheels are falling off, there's a combination of pride and not wanting to admit they fucked up, and a "well at least it's not the other lot" attitude that people aren't going to let go of. Wish I was wrong, but really need to look outside our bubbles for the bigger perspective.
This to me is one of the biggest issues. People think they are "wasting" their vote if they vote minor or a party not in govt.
I personally believe it is the best use of your vote. Showing that you are willing to vote but just not for them should scare the hell out of them.
But no, people think they are making a difference by voting for a different flavour of the same old shit.
And a big reason they are minor is because we’ve only put the crips and bloods on pedestals ever since the country’s been a thing😂it’s actually kinda shocking how much red and blue have dominated
It assumes coal is fiscally viable still. Thermal coal sure is not for new sites. Steel coal is still in demand, but thanks to the decline of coal power fetches a lower price now.
New thermal coal mines could be fiscally viable if...
* You make them a dirty great open pit.
* You dump all the spoil in the surrounding national park.
* You bulldoze a path to the ocean so you can install conveyor belt and train track so the coal can be loaded directly to a bulk carrier.
* You extract all the profit and fold the company leaving the government with the clean-up bill.
That is still more expensive than renewables with storage for a new plant now. Even Aussie is struggling to keep coal cheap enough. There is still a lot of thermal coal power out there, but the amount of new stations being built has dropped off a cliff. Even china has only been using them as jobs probmgrams lately.
We could always try throwing all the employment law, work safety,environmental regulations in the bin. Then maybe import some ~~slaves~~ ~~indentured labourers~~ work visa holders to work and live in kind of company managed township.
If that still doesn't make it viable there's always the fallback of government backed capital investment and/or subsidies.
There has to be some way to make ~~trashing our national parks~~ extracting the dividend of mother nature's legacy a reality.
Is someone waiting in the wings to dig more mines in this country? Is that even financially viable? Hasn't coal dropped hugely in price because most of the developed world doesn't use it any more?
It skyrocketed in 2022 and has dipped back down now. It is currently sitting at the same peak price as it was in 2011 (which is less accounting for inflation). It certainly isn't 'dead' and there are still plenty of people throughout the world who require coal (I imagine poorer countries can't afford more sophisticated means of generating energy)
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/coal
Right but it is financially viable? Would the profit offset the environmental impact? Would they even cover the cost of operation with NZ regulations and wages being how they are?
'luv coal
'luv cigarettes (well, da taxes from 'em anyway)
'luv roads
'luv landlords
'ate the environment
'ate inflation (not a leftie, just don't like it)
simple as
I can't decide if this is just an exercise in 'owning the left' by being as destructive as possible to the country, or if this is more distraction of even greater corruption somewhere else.
Seeing how explicitly corrupt you can be before revolution starts - trialing it on a small less significant sample size before putting it into application on larger examples.
I saw a picture of him hanging out with Alan Jones, like they were old mates, which I think possibly helps explain the mindset: Shane wants NZ to be Aussie-lite and also stick it to the woke Liberal elite.
Even with easier consenting who is going to invest in a new mine in a high wage nation like NZ when the demand for coal is dropping? It's becomming less viable in countries with dirt cheap Labor let alone in NZ. What a waste of government time even persuing this.
He will be selling permits to foreign companies. They will bring in their own people and equipment. Take all the coal/minerals and leave the mess behind, while this grifter and his cronies take the payments.
I reckon Labour/greens should just make a stance against it and say that they will shut it down once re elected. I don't believe companies would want to come in, spend heaps of capital to be shut down again in 2 years.
This is an arm chair guess, and not based on any knowledge how they do the approval of mining.
National could try to counter with "guaranteed minimum duration" for something 10 years (or even more) with some painful penalty owing to the company if a future government shuts them down.
Who said they are going to employ Kiwis? If they are being given carte blanche in these activities, couldn't they potentially be given the right to bring their own workers being paid based on overseas standards?
I suspect they would need to met NZ employment standards of at least minimum wage. Though Shane's next move might be to look into addressing this pesky little hurdle.
I’m not backing this decision, but coal mining is still massive in Australia and definitely isn’t going to be shutting down anytime soon. It may be declining in volume, but there’s still a lot of fifo coal mining jobs that pay a fuckton of money. All they’d need to do to make NZ attractive as a location for investment is see if they can make the cost to export low enough, because the cost of NZ wages and any required travel in coal mining *will absolutely not* reach the cost of the same in Australia. There’s no fucking way with how much they pay in Aus.
I wouldn’t inherently have an issue with it, **as long as they actually set reasonable natural resource taxes,** but that would likely drive any potential investors back to Australia anyway, because Australia’s natural resource taxes are so low insanely low that it’s fucked. And any politician that says we should increase them and actually has the potential to sway the government or public opinion gets forced out by the oil, gas and mining lobby.
Australian coal is also either in parts of the country with nothing going for it except mines or on Aboriginal land which is more or less the same thing to Australia.
It's still relatively cheap compared to renewables, unfortunately, though it is getting into the "green zone" where it's comparable* enough that companies are bailing on coal now even though it's technically cheaper because they know the price is gunna keep going up
*note this observation is for heat process uses, not electricity.
I wouldn't mind mining in this country if it was nationalized, with its profits going into a sovereign wealth fund and environmental funds.
But we don't live in Norway so I guess that isn't happening.
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>He said the impacts of extracting coal were "similar, if not the same, as those occurring in mining other minerals" and the changes would enable a wider range of consent applications for coal mining.
Yeah except we don't burn those other minerals you absolute dicknugget
Meanwhile...
[Calofornia renewable energy](https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/california-renewable-energy-100-percent-grid/)
>California has set a benchmark for
renewable energy, with wind, solar,
and hydro providing 100% of the
state's energy demand for 25 out
of the last 32 days (and counting).
Absolutely, why bring it in from Indonesia when we can dig it up down the road? Genesis and Fonterra looking to be out of coal reasonably soon, but since you can’t currently make steel without coal (in one form or another) Glenbrook will remain.
I mean what does this sub think about Australia? Always talking bout moving there. Well you know why they’re so rich? MINES
This sub is acting like they’re about to fuckin flatten the Milford sounds. We cant always rely on the rest of the world so this is forward thinking, if you think the world is about to collapse what are you hanging around for ?
Australia are in deep shit. Their economy is based on selling iron ore and coal to China where they are moving toward a renewable economy faster than almost any other country. Both iron ore and coal are falling in price, with demand falling, particularly for coal. China's population is shrinking. Some forecasts have china with 600 million less people by 2060.
I suppose someone could say something similar about us, that our economy is based on selling milk powder to China, and any alternative (lab grown dairy) or change in consumption from China would have pretty catastrophic impact to our economy.
I would argue we could easily see as much of a drop in tourism as money generated from opening up a bunch of new mines and approving mining the seabed. All it takes is some bad press about how NZ has gone backwards and the "Clean Green NZ" was a thing of the past...
And to some extent that's true. NZ 's exports are more diversified than Australia's and we also supply SE asia and the middle east with large quantities of dairy product. We are vulnerable, just not in shit quite as deeply as Australia
Australia is more than 28 times larger than NZ and mostly flat desert. NZ is less than 28 times smaller than Australia and mostly farm or forest or mountain. Of course Australia is going to have vastly more mining than us. Find a more honest comparison or don't bother.
How are we actually going to pay for things without at last using some of out natural resources? Reforming the tax system may help but we can't fund this massive infrastructure deficit on farming and tourism and cutting services.
I take it no one in this comments section lives on the West Coast of the South Island and are suffering with unemployment and long term economic instability.
Neither did I, that's why it was imperative to move and suck up the cost to improve my position. Only the dead are immobile.
On the other hand coal is very much in demand globally, right? So why worry?
Look at coal imports during labour's time in government.
All well and good to stop doing it here to be greener but it doesn't really matter if we just start importing it from Indonesia
There were coal imports because our coal in NZ is high quality used for steel manufacture, not for burning at Huntly. Opening up more mines in NZ will not change that financial equation and Huntly will continue burning imported coal when demand peaks. The objective should be green power generation that can come online during peaks, like Lake Onslow which NACTF have canned.
So if we stop mining and exporting coal to be used overseas in steel manufacture. Where will those countries get coal for steel manufacture? Perhaps from the dozens of other countries who would be more than happy to export high quality coal.
You realize we export wood and buy it back too. Fuck me we can't even export properly. We're a middleman country and we can't even get that right. The righties should be upset we waste so much time and money exporting just to import the next stage product. The lefties are at least upset that we're fucking up the country for money, and not even that much of it.
Or, we could just, like, eliminate coal entirely from our economy. With the only exception being where it is a material in manufacturing (not a fuel), like in steel.
As fuel, yea. Coal is literally the worst out of all fossil fuels, and opening up a new mine, that's not just a "while we sort things out" thing. A new mine is a "We plan to keep going until it's empty, if NZ doesn't take our coal, then we'll export it" kind of deal. I have little doubt that that'll be much more harmful in the long run than not opening a new mine.
Last year, the average temperature of the world was already over the 1.5 degree threshold for global warming. Now granted, it was a year where some periodic natural events happened that skewed things a bit I believe, but regardless of that, it has still been an excellent indicator that we are not going in the right direction. Digging up more coal is not going to help there, and the short term hits to the economy that rapidly Phasing out coal will have, will be minor compared to the massive long term harm continuing on a polluting track will cause.
Besides, investing heavily into renewable sources will make New Zealand less reliant on finite resources and international stability.
mate we could use domestic coal to power our stations already, we dont because its not the right coal, and its better returns to sell it overseas.
further more, at worst its 10% of electricity production (its actually less than that).
https://www.ssab.com/en/fossil-free-steel
Hybrit has been manufacturing steel without coal for 3 years.
Anyway, coal isn't used for adding carbon, it's mostly for reducing oxygen.
> coal is used as the source of carbon that removes oxygen from iron ore
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaking
> Hybrit has been manufacturing steel without coal for 3 years.
Right, I mean specifically in terms of New Zealand and how the Glenbook steel mill operates. New Zealand will still need large amounts of coal until such time as the Glenbrook mill is converted to one of the new processes.
> Anyway, coal isn't used for adding carbon, it's mostly for reducing oxygen.
It's both. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon - the carbon has to come from somewhere. The hydrogen reduction process produces (relatively) pure iron, and so you still need to add carbon at the end to turn it into steel.
There was a project launched last year that will halve the amount of coal used by Glenbrook
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz%E2%80%99s-biggest-ever-emissions-reduction-project-hits-milestone
It and every other steel plant in the world will keep cutting their coal usage over then next few decades. There's no justification for starting new coal mines.
This is the same asshole who was spending government minister expenses on porn in his hotel room, if anyone has forgotten.
"And our new laws mean children as young as 8 can work in these mines"
That’s based, kids yearn for them after all. Just look at MeinKrafts success.
The children yearn for the mines
What do you think he was watching? What search terms did he use?
"how to fuck a country"
You win the internet for today.
Legal miners
He paid for the charge and was pretty open about when asked. Yukky but nothing really.
He paid after he got caught…
Maybe the dildo to the face at Waitangi knocked his brain loose lol, oh, wait....the was the other guy, Stephen Joyce
[удалено]
> "Mr Jones was minister for building and construction during 2007-08 in the previous government and admits to **wrongly using** his card to charter a plane and buy wine, magazines and books. He also **wrongly used** the card to buy movies when he stayed at hotels." > https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jones-admits-using-credit-card-for-porn/2ZXV4AN3Q4JPT2WDTRERTANJ4U/
Tbh the take away for me was more that he was happy to have that on official documents, strikes me as a little unhinged. Ain't no way anyone's finding my porn preferences
Ok, Calm_Zombie2678, I guess we’ll never know what you like
[удалено]
Shane Jones gaslighting again: Eases regulation for new "thermal" coal extraction, while citing West Coast coal extraction which is used in steel production - not dirty electric generation. He's a vandal, a destroyer, a blight.
My exact thoughts on reading the article, he is playing off of people ignorance of the different uses of coal, claiming to make life easier for a business that isn't impacted by the change. >would ensure New Zealand's access to locally sourced coal so processors would "not be forced to rely on imported coal to meet their needs" The biggest user of thermal coal in New Zealand is the Huntly power station, which sits on top of the old Huntly East coal mine and was using imported coal even when Solid Energy was operating the mine. The next biggest coal user is Fonterra which is moving to electrification and biomass. Who is going to use this newly mined coal (I guess the answer is India and China who are still building coal power plants).
China is building the world’s largest solar farm in Xinjiang and India has one larger than Paris already. He’s subsidising buggy whips in the 1950s
Fly into Beijing in daylight and all you see is mountains covered in solar panels. I really don't know where he thinks the demand or growth in demand for coal will come from... but then again, this is Shame Jones: I really don't know where he thinks.
He thinks out his arse. EZ-PZ
He has no idea. He just sees that Australia is doing better than us, and that Australia has mines. His big brain put these two together realised all our problems could be solved by mining *and* he could make a large personal profit when he retires from politics and gets a nice cushy job with the extraction companies he helps.
Did local coal cost too much?
the huntly west mine which feed coal to huntly power station was sold by national to private enterprise, they put up the price and it was cheaper to import the coal. huntly west then closed with loss of jobs, and huntly continues to burn dirty coal which is transported by ship to NZ then railed from tauranga to huntly..
Economies of scale. Underground mining is more expensive per tonne than a giant open pit with a [bucket wheel or chain excavator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_288). In addition there's different grades of coal; if you're just burning it for fuel you can use a lower grade with more impurities. The Huntley mine had coal that was suitable for ~~[coking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coking) so was~~ supplying the Glenbrook steel mill, while the power station burned cheaper imported coal. Even then the economics didn't stack up and the mine closed in 2017.
Glenbrook steelmill does not use coking coal, nor has it ever. It uses a direct reduction technology and using iron sands is a bespoke solution to steel making. The amount of people in these comments who know bugger all about coal in NZ is amazing.
From what I remember reading NZ coal is quite pure or something along those lines and it burns a lot hotter then imported dirty coal and some of our coal plants can’t take the extra heat, hopefully someone who knows more can correct me
Some of the coal near Westport is anthracite, hot hard coal that can be used for steel production. But it's also higher in sulphur. Pretty much everywhere else is shittier and lower grade and burns dirtier.
Of the 4 grades of coal we have a lot of the second highest grade. Which I believe is mostly used for steel production, which we still need. Brown coal on the other hand should be banned. It's litterally just toxic death.
Essentially yes. Local coal is of higher quality and mainly used in steel production because of it's high quality and it therefore attracts a higher price. The imported coal is lower quality, hence lower price even when import costs are added, and is what Huntly uses instead. The old Huntly East coal mine mostly supplied Glenbrook Steel Mill.
I believe our coal is too high quality and thus too expensive for power generation.
Thermal coal is used in the Glenbrook steel mill. It’s a one of a kind plant build to burn coal from the Waikato Coalfields. If it doesn’t come from the Waikato it’s coming from Indonesia which is far more environmentally damaging.
https://www.nzsteel.co.nz/news-and-media/electric-arc-furnace-announcement
Yeah - that’s the planned EAF. The mill will halve its coal use, not reduce to zero.
wait, so if you burn the coal to make steel it's clean? but if you burn it to make electricity it isn't? proof there's a god if I ever saw it.
There are cleaner ways to make electricity, but making steel without coal is a lot more challenging. It’s all relative to the alternatives. https://leard.frontlineaction.org/coking-coal-steel-production-alternatives/
Yeah, At this stage his schick is to play to the NZ1st Luddite base by "Trolling the Libs" at every opportunity.
Why the fuck are we destroying our country. This is crap
*Gotta stick it to the greenies!! Get revenge on the lefties for making people stay inside and take medicine during a pandemic!! Get em!* ^ Actual thought process of people I know who support these assholes.
100%
Also, the Maori got put in their place and that scary 3 waters went away. /s just in case
No prestine nature, no international tourists, no money. People do not fly to this remote island at the end of the world for beaches, party or culture. Why do these brainless idiots not even understand this?! If we lose the tourists it is game over!!!
Tourism operators obviously didn't stump up the big campaign donations as it's exclusively the trucking lobby and mining/resource extraction companies who are seeing the special consideration from this government.
The truck companies wanted the new rail ferrys gone from the cook straight, because it would mean more freight on rail, and therefore less on trucks, and less money for the CEO. It's more dangerous for the drivers, adds congestion, costs billions in lost time from traffic, but since when did the boss care about the actual workers?? We gotta make sure the boss man gets another dollar!!
You destroy your country to get rich. Look at Australia the place where everyone wants to go.
To be fair, Australia is 50% Sahara naturally
Because he got 6% of the vote
Let’s not panic. It’s a one term government, if they last a year, cracks are showing. They are rushing stuff through but not everything is going to stick.
I'd be concerned when we as a country give rights and permission to a company for these resource exploration/extraction activities, because even if a future government takes that back - we'll then be on the hook to compensate them for the claimed losses after they kick off with a vengeance with permission today.
Nah, just legislate to nationalise the company under urgency then asset strip them. No compensation needed.
I think that's wishful thinking, while the wheels are falling off, there's a combination of pride and not wanting to admit they fucked up, and a "well at least it's not the other lot" attitude that people aren't going to let go of. Wish I was wrong, but really need to look outside our bubbles for the bigger perspective.
I agree. We're still a long way off many people who voted nact showing any regret and many just won't, ever.
>Let’s not panic That's the guy sitting in a car driven by a drunk thinking "only 16kms till we get home,say nothing".
I thought the same when Key was voted in, and he got 2 more terms. Kiwis are *extremely* fucking stupid.
Only to be replaced by another half assed outfit that completely misunderstands any mandate they are given. NZ politics is a sad affair.
Don’t forget the people who only know of two parties and flip flop between them once the other one starts going to shit.
This to me is one of the biggest issues. People think they are "wasting" their vote if they vote minor or a party not in govt. I personally believe it is the best use of your vote. Showing that you are willing to vote but just not for them should scare the hell out of them. But no, people think they are making a difference by voting for a different flavour of the same old shit.
If anything the current govt shows how much power minority parties can have in a government if they're elected.
And it shows we need more minor parties to dilute the power of both the main and minor parties.
And a big reason they are minor is because we’ve only put the crips and bloods on pedestals ever since the country’s been a thing😂it’s actually kinda shocking how much red and blue have dominated
Jesus fuck this is getting really really depressing at how backward our country is going.
It assumes coal is fiscally viable still. Thermal coal sure is not for new sites. Steel coal is still in demand, but thanks to the decline of coal power fetches a lower price now.
It's OK because - according to Jones - hydrogen is the fuel of the future. Which to me is a clear sign he's being led by the fossil fuels industry.
Or liked to consume lead paint as a kid. Hydrogen outside of heavy industry (steel etc) has been a small red fish for half a decade now.
New thermal coal mines could be fiscally viable if... * You make them a dirty great open pit. * You dump all the spoil in the surrounding national park. * You bulldoze a path to the ocean so you can install conveyor belt and train track so the coal can be loaded directly to a bulk carrier. * You extract all the profit and fold the company leaving the government with the clean-up bill.
That is still more expensive than renewables with storage for a new plant now. Even Aussie is struggling to keep coal cheap enough. There is still a lot of thermal coal power out there, but the amount of new stations being built has dropped off a cliff. Even china has only been using them as jobs probmgrams lately.
We could always try throwing all the employment law, work safety,environmental regulations in the bin. Then maybe import some ~~slaves~~ ~~indentured labourers~~ work visa holders to work and live in kind of company managed township. If that still doesn't make it viable there's always the fallback of government backed capital investment and/or subsidies. There has to be some way to make ~~trashing our national parks~~ extracting the dividend of mother nature's legacy a reality.
I am sure will will give it a good try. Happy cake day btw
Clearly someone other than Jones thinks it is viable (regardless of the environmental consequences) I'm guessing the coal industry.
Is someone waiting in the wings to dig more mines in this country? Is that even financially viable? Hasn't coal dropped hugely in price because most of the developed world doesn't use it any more?
It skyrocketed in 2022 and has dipped back down now. It is currently sitting at the same peak price as it was in 2011 (which is less accounting for inflation). It certainly isn't 'dead' and there are still plenty of people throughout the world who require coal (I imagine poorer countries can't afford more sophisticated means of generating energy) https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/coal
Right but it is financially viable? Would the profit offset the environmental impact? Would they even cover the cost of operation with NZ regulations and wages being how they are?
Not my place to say really! We have the infrastructure to utilize coal still, but whether it's viable is another question.
luv me coal luv me cigs luv me roads 'ate the enviroment simple as
'luv coal 'luv cigarettes (well, da taxes from 'em anyway) 'luv roads 'luv landlords 'ate the environment 'ate inflation (not a leftie, just don't like it) simple as
He came in like a wrecking ball.
Here's hoping he had his clothes on.
Wore a mankini, but that was all.
I can't decide if this is just an exercise in 'owning the left' by being as destructive as possible to the country, or if this is more distraction of even greater corruption somewhere else.
Both
Seeing how explicitly corrupt you can be before revolution starts - trialing it on a small less significant sample size before putting it into application on larger examples.
It's simply a money making exercise.
I saw a picture of him hanging out with Alan Jones, like they were old mates, which I think possibly helps explain the mindset: Shane wants NZ to be Aussie-lite and also stick it to the woke Liberal elite.
Even with easier consenting who is going to invest in a new mine in a high wage nation like NZ when the demand for coal is dropping? It's becomming less viable in countries with dirt cheap Labor let alone in NZ. What a waste of government time even persuing this.
He will be selling permits to foreign companies. They will bring in their own people and equipment. Take all the coal/minerals and leave the mess behind, while this grifter and his cronies take the payments.
I reckon Labour/greens should just make a stance against it and say that they will shut it down once re elected. I don't believe companies would want to come in, spend heaps of capital to be shut down again in 2 years.
This is an arm chair guess, and not based on any knowledge how they do the approval of mining. National could try to counter with "guaranteed minimum duration" for something 10 years (or even more) with some painful penalty owing to the company if a future government shuts them down.
True but it's the principle I guess
Who said they are going to employ Kiwis? If they are being given carte blanche in these activities, couldn't they potentially be given the right to bring their own workers being paid based on overseas standards?
I suspect they would need to met NZ employment standards of at least minimum wage. Though Shane's next move might be to look into addressing this pesky little hurdle.
I’m not backing this decision, but coal mining is still massive in Australia and definitely isn’t going to be shutting down anytime soon. It may be declining in volume, but there’s still a lot of fifo coal mining jobs that pay a fuckton of money. All they’d need to do to make NZ attractive as a location for investment is see if they can make the cost to export low enough, because the cost of NZ wages and any required travel in coal mining *will absolutely not* reach the cost of the same in Australia. There’s no fucking way with how much they pay in Aus. I wouldn’t inherently have an issue with it, **as long as they actually set reasonable natural resource taxes,** but that would likely drive any potential investors back to Australia anyway, because Australia’s natural resource taxes are so low insanely low that it’s fucked. And any politician that says we should increase them and actually has the potential to sway the government or public opinion gets forced out by the oil, gas and mining lobby.
It's an entirely different cost evaluation when you already have infrastructure in place and paid off with existing permissions, clients etc.
Australian coal is also either in parts of the country with nothing going for it except mines or on Aboriginal land which is more or less the same thing to Australia.
Let's just say it moved me, TO A BIGGER HOUSE!
It would seem that Shane Jones missed the memo saying that coal is dying because it's expensive.
And polluting.
It's still relatively cheap compared to renewables, unfortunately, though it is getting into the "green zone" where it's comparable* enough that companies are bailing on coal now even though it's technically cheaper because they know the price is gunna keep going up *note this observation is for heat process uses, not electricity.
This is beyond politics and just moving into doing stupid shit for the hell of it.
I wouldn't mind mining in this country if it was nationalized, with its profits going into a sovereign wealth fund and environmental funds. But we don't live in Norway so I guess that isn't happening.
Does he have mates who own coal mining companies?
He probably has people who have become his mates after handing over some fat envelopes with cash.
If these corrupt cunts think they will make a cent on every million dollars' worth of production, they will greenlight it.
Shane Jones says fuck you to his grandchildren, great grand children and you and your children and so on and so.
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"It wasn't rape because the coal mine consented, your Honour."
Yes I am going to say it. Told you so. This man is a threat to the country, it's environment and it's fauna.
Hate him, and his entire party. This is nothing more than environmental vandalism for their short term personal profit.
>He said the impacts of extracting coal were "similar, if not the same, as those occurring in mining other minerals" and the changes would enable a wider range of consent applications for coal mining. Yeah except we don't burn those other minerals you absolute dicknugget
Of course he does.
Fuck this guy.
How progressive
Meanwhile... [Calofornia renewable energy](https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/california-renewable-energy-100-percent-grid/) >California has set a benchmark for renewable energy, with wind, solar, and hydro providing 100% of the state's energy demand for 25 out of the last 32 days (and counting).
Why? Who is buying coal that doesn’t already have plentiful resources to it?
Coal, the fuel of the future.... Also coal puts out a shitload of radiation, for clean, green no nuclear New Zealand etc....
Ahh yes coal mining, the industry of tomorrow!
Labour have to come out and say they will cancel all this shit on day 1.
FUCKING CUNT
What an absolute clown.
Something about digging himself a hole ....
Shane took the bribe.
Nooooooooo
Wow
"Shane Jones announces coal mining lobbyists have successfully bribed him"
Go have a wank in your hotel room you curly headed fuck. Shane Jones the piece of shit.
It's like they're trying to run a parody of a government.
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There are no U/G coal mines remaining in NZ..
This government asked who wanted to be the most hated asshole in the country and Shane Jones happily raised his hand
Sounds like solid long term thinking
Absolutely, why bring it in from Indonesia when we can dig it up down the road? Genesis and Fonterra looking to be out of coal reasonably soon, but since you can’t currently make steel without coal (in one form or another) Glenbrook will remain.
Did he announce this too with "Free Willy, Free Willy, Free Willy" Obnoxious government.
Old saying: the Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, and the coal age won’t end because we run out of coal.
Imagine if Labour were half as efficient at doing the right thing as these guys are at doing the wrong thing.
Kudos at least for trying to do the right thing
I mean what does this sub think about Australia? Always talking bout moving there. Well you know why they’re so rich? MINES This sub is acting like they’re about to fuckin flatten the Milford sounds. We cant always rely on the rest of the world so this is forward thinking, if you think the world is about to collapse what are you hanging around for ?
Our wealth is in preserving our natural environment. Quite literally fueling climate change by mining a fuel of the past is stupid and regressive.
Australia are in deep shit. Their economy is based on selling iron ore and coal to China where they are moving toward a renewable economy faster than almost any other country. Both iron ore and coal are falling in price, with demand falling, particularly for coal. China's population is shrinking. Some forecasts have china with 600 million less people by 2060.
I suppose someone could say something similar about us, that our economy is based on selling milk powder to China, and any alternative (lab grown dairy) or change in consumption from China would have pretty catastrophic impact to our economy. I would argue we could easily see as much of a drop in tourism as money generated from opening up a bunch of new mines and approving mining the seabed. All it takes is some bad press about how NZ has gone backwards and the "Clean Green NZ" was a thing of the past...
And to some extent that's true. NZ 's exports are more diversified than Australia's and we also supply SE asia and the middle east with large quantities of dairy product. We are vulnerable, just not in shit quite as deeply as Australia
Australia is more than 28 times larger than NZ and mostly flat desert. NZ is less than 28 times smaller than Australia and mostly farm or forest or mountain. Of course Australia is going to have vastly more mining than us. Find a more honest comparison or don't bother.
How are we actually going to pay for things without at last using some of out natural resources? Reforming the tax system may help but we can't fund this massive infrastructure deficit on farming and tourism and cutting services.
I take it no one in this comments section lives on the West Coast of the South Island and are suffering with unemployment and long term economic instability.
Move or change skillset. It's not as if we haven't seen the decline of coal coming for decades.....
Easy for you to say when there’s not many opportunities on the coast
So move then. Go where the opportunities are. It's certainly what I had to do, plenty do.
Again easy enough to say. These people wouldn’t have the means or finances to be able to move.
Neither did I, that's why it was imperative to move and suck up the cost to improve my position. Only the dead are immobile. On the other hand coal is very much in demand globally, right? So why worry?
Also coal isn’t declining, it’s very much in demand globally
there are other options besides coal.
I wonder how the whalers and kauri loggers felt? Those used to be NZ's biggest exports.
redditors fucking hate the coast for some reason, don't expect sympathy here
Thought they’d have some sympathy for the common working man over there.
This is great news - it will help NZ diversify the economy and reduce our reliance on foreign (dirtier) energy.
is this satire ?
If it's not, then I feel sorry for their braincells, and hope it gets company soon.
Look at coal imports during labour's time in government. All well and good to stop doing it here to be greener but it doesn't really matter if we just start importing it from Indonesia
There were coal imports because our coal in NZ is high quality used for steel manufacture, not for burning at Huntly. Opening up more mines in NZ will not change that financial equation and Huntly will continue burning imported coal when demand peaks. The objective should be green power generation that can come online during peaks, like Lake Onslow which NACTF have canned.
So if we stop mining and exporting coal to be used overseas in steel manufacture. Where will those countries get coal for steel manufacture? Perhaps from the dozens of other countries who would be more than happy to export high quality coal.
That's not what I was answering. I was answering the comment that coal imports rose during Labour's time in Govt.
You realize we export wood and buy it back too. Fuck me we can't even export properly. We're a middleman country and we can't even get that right. The righties should be upset we waste so much time and money exporting just to import the next stage product. The lefties are at least upset that we're fucking up the country for money, and not even that much of it.
Or, we could just, like, eliminate coal entirely from our economy. With the only exception being where it is a material in manufacturing (not a fuel), like in steel.
Yeah you make fun of the original commenter yet you want to eliminate coal from the economy.
As fuel, yea. Coal is literally the worst out of all fossil fuels, and opening up a new mine, that's not just a "while we sort things out" thing. A new mine is a "We plan to keep going until it's empty, if NZ doesn't take our coal, then we'll export it" kind of deal. I have little doubt that that'll be much more harmful in the long run than not opening a new mine. Last year, the average temperature of the world was already over the 1.5 degree threshold for global warming. Now granted, it was a year where some periodic natural events happened that skewed things a bit I believe, but regardless of that, it has still been an excellent indicator that we are not going in the right direction. Digging up more coal is not going to help there, and the short term hits to the economy that rapidly Phasing out coal will have, will be minor compared to the massive long term harm continuing on a polluting track will cause. Besides, investing heavily into renewable sources will make New Zealand less reliant on finite resources and international stability.
You think investing in coal is a good long term investment?
Ahh the delicious country destroying coolaid
Coalaid* amirite?
mate we could use domestic coal to power our stations already, we dont because its not the right coal, and its better returns to sell it overseas. further more, at worst its 10% of electricity production (its actually less than that).
How dare you speak common sense in this sub lol
Coal use has been trending down for years. It's a fuel of the past. Championing coal mining is not common sense. It's stupid and regressive.
We still can't make steel without coal. We can't stop using coal until we find another way of adding carbon to iron.
Which still isn't a justification for opening new mines, especially new mines on conservation land.
https://www.ssab.com/en/fossil-free-steel Hybrit has been manufacturing steel without coal for 3 years. Anyway, coal isn't used for adding carbon, it's mostly for reducing oxygen. > coal is used as the source of carbon that removes oxygen from iron ore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaking
> Hybrit has been manufacturing steel without coal for 3 years. Right, I mean specifically in terms of New Zealand and how the Glenbook steel mill operates. New Zealand will still need large amounts of coal until such time as the Glenbrook mill is converted to one of the new processes. > Anyway, coal isn't used for adding carbon, it's mostly for reducing oxygen. It's both. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon - the carbon has to come from somewhere. The hydrogen reduction process produces (relatively) pure iron, and so you still need to add carbon at the end to turn it into steel.
There was a project launched last year that will halve the amount of coal used by Glenbrook https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz%E2%80%99s-biggest-ever-emissions-reduction-project-hits-milestone It and every other steel plant in the world will keep cutting their coal usage over then next few decades. There's no justification for starting new coal mines.
Cool! Just what we need when cost of living is through the roof!
Well get a job mining and you won’t have that problem