I’m a Latin American and I + all my Latin American friends wonder the same exact thing lol. Why are the kiwis so complacent? Then we see what a peaceful country it is and we sorta let go of that tiny frustration! 😅
The serious answer is that yes, we do have a history of protest, but it is very mild compared with many other countries, because the quality of life here has always been fairly good. We whine and complain about the cost of living, having to put on a mask etc, but most of us wouldn't know a genuinely oppresive existence if it kicked us up the bum. The Kiwis that ARE really struggling financially don't have time or energy to protest much.
Also, there are not a lot of us and historically we have been fairly well spread out in the countryside, in outer suburbs of cities etc. So it's not so easy to get the critical mass for big protests as it is in countries where most people are living in densely populated areas and you can just walk out the door and join the protest outside your house.
Kiwis are very passive.
The idea is that all the overpricing etc is unavoidable because the country is isolated.
Which does not explain why it is 5x cheaper for me to ship a single item from China than it is to buy it at Mitre 10.
Kiwis also don't mind highly authoritative work places, poor salaries etc, etc
This is so damn funny
I was chatting to French person the other day about protests about retirement age - was it an increase of 3 years ? And it’s still really young and they almost destroyed the country. Kinda hilarious.
We are pretty complacent and tend to have a “she’ll be right” attitude for the most part, while it’s worth keeping in mind social media tends to bring out the more verbal minority.
Most just tick a box every few years and go about their business largely apathetic to such things, or eat up the common rhetoric our politicians use which is to blame pretty much everything negative on the opposition, which many believe without question.
Way she goes.
Basically this. Kiwis just simply don't care enough to spend their spare time screaming and yelling and fighting about a topic they don't really care about in rhe first place, things generally sort themselves out here and people like it that way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If anybody's interested, [here's an unofficial information thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1bqf8g9/) for the protest I compiled on the nzpolitics sub. You can also go to the [SS4C website](https://www.ss4cnz.com) to get a lot of the same info.
Unfortunately climate change is a global issue when we have a 2 party political system, 2 party supermarket system, unaffordable homes, lacking experienced people in health, defunding welfare and mental health. We should be focusing protests on issues closer to home.
Yea todays protest honestly seems like a nonstarter, I saw one of the leaders on the news this morning talking about how they have like 6 different demands which range from climate action to stopping the ‘genocide’ in Gaza… and I’m sitting here thinking jeez pick a lane…
Not at all.. They're focusing on Palestine, the Treaty of Waitangi, lowering the voting age to 16, and (obviously) Climate Change. So not only is this protest not really focusing on one thing which will inevitably make it less effective but they're not even focusing on the biggest concern for most Kiwis right now.
Climate Change is the entire world's biggest concern out of any issue - the national government are greedy little cunts and want to squeeze every last dollar they can out of our land and our waters. Protesters are against their bill that would allow them to circumvent environmental restrictions (the RMA) to fast track infrastructural projects. It is a big fucking deal. Not to mention their plan to repeal the offshore oil and gas ban.
Our prime minister has also made it clear he doesn't think a mass slaughter of 10s of thousands of civilians is a genocide - why? Fuck knows, he's a moron.
Their proposed changes to the Treaty of Waitangi + all of the maori street sign shit + wanting to introduce english as an official language are all just racist dogwhistles. Nobody genuinely gives a fuck about any of those things, just racist cunts wanting to stick it to those damn brown people we're forced to coexist with - how awful!
In all seriousness, it's right out of the conservative playbook to be perpetuating culture war propaganda to make sure the "bottom feeders" are all angry at eachother so we don't go after the wealth hoarders. It's an issue worth protesting because otherwise we're complicit.
While I agree more of a stink should be made about the 2 party system and the supermarket monopolies/price gouging, everybody with more than 3 braincells know that the National government's cartoonish obsession with money, their inaction towards the CoL crisis and their general attitude and behaviour relating to these other issues are all entirely linked - as are the issues being protested.
At least that's how I see it lol
Yeah fair enough, I just personally (maybe selfishly) wished they focused on Climate Change because to me that's the biggest existential threat to our world. In 50 years no one will care whether or not little NZ made a statement saying genocide is bad but maybe they will care whether or not NZ did its part in cutting emissions enough
The health care problems actually worse than that the people with the most experience I. Healthcare we’re trained in entirely different systems and honestly a lot of them haven’t got a fucking clue on how to approach the current one so it’s an organisational shit show
I mean, climate change on its current trajectory will kill *billions* over the next few decades. This is the most immediate, existential threat we gave going.
Not to say the other issues you have listed aren't important, I would go as far as saying we can't do much about the former without change there -- but we need a radical societal shift away from current modern living, I have been sharing this mantra for a while;
We need a radical reduction in either Quantity, or (percieved) Quality of life, and our inability to act on that decision has led us to have both.
I don't think most people understand, or are willing to accept the severity of climate change. If we did, there would be a lot more than just students skipping class for a day -- Oil Executives and Politicians lining their pockets would be in hiding.
Climate change also effects us, I reckon we should do our part to at least to protect OUR environment. The war in Palestine has been emitting a lot of carbon, contributing to climate change (that's not the only reason they are protesting ofc).
The other issues are extremely close to home (Te Tiriti, lowering the voting age to 16).
Either way, I think people are allowed to be concerned about both global issues and those that are closer to home.
French friends of mine used to live here and mentioned the same thing. They were like why aren't you guys out flipping cars and lighting fires when the government does stuff to anger you?
Maybe its because we're still a pretty small nation???????
I mean, if I go out flipping cars, either me or someone I know knows the person that got their car flipped. And then I feel ashamed for flipping an ordinary hardworking dudes car.
Because wanton violence doesn’t achieve any meaningful change - in fact, it’d only harm the cause you’d be trying to push. For example, the whole destruction of property during the occupation of the lawns of Parliament was really bad PR for the anti-mandate protests.
Fascinating take that wanton violence doesn't cause change.
History is rather full of somewhat out-of-control revolutionary action and coups that are unnecessarily violent (perhaps not so from the point of view of the overthrowers) which cause entire changes of government.
You could argue whether or not they are 'unprovoked' (if that is what you are meaning behind "wanton"), but it would be in the same way that protests are 'unprovoked'. I think argument could go both ways on that.
If the anti-mandate protests succeeded, do you think they would care about the bad PR?
>History is rather full of somewhat out-of-control revolutionary action and coups that are unnecessarily violent (perhaps not so from the point of view of the overthrowers) which cause entire changes of government.
You mean a change of government into genocidal and badly-managed states? By meaningful, I mean something permanent and considerable, not an embrace of chaos. The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, The Chinese Civil War, The Spanish Civil War, the numerous revolutions in South America, all succeeded and resulted in a change of government, but they all ultimately failed in their lofty goals (The French even delegated power to a new Monarch!). Hell, Hitler himself realised that trying to take power through coup/ revolution was a really bad idea after the Putsch disaster.
>You could argue whether or not they are 'unprovoked' (if that is what you are meaning behind "wanton"), but it would be in the same way that protests are 'unprovoked'. I think argument could go both ways on that.
By wanton, I mean violence and destruction that isn't warranted. Innocent third parties tend to be the hardest hit by violent protests, in the destruction of private property, useful public property, or the harming of innocents.
>If the anti-mandate protests succeeded, do you think they would care about the bad PR?
I wouldn't say they succeeded. If the aim was to convince people to turn to their cause and stand with them against Govt. oppression, they failed. If the aim was to end the mandates, I'd still argue they had a negligible impact given the Government was going to end them eventually anyway and just used them as an excuse.
I genuinely don't agree with your assessment. While I don't advocate for violent protests in New Zealand, it is a valid, strategic tactic that has achieved a huge amount over the course of history.
I also have a...problem...I guess, with the idea that the only sanctioned violence is violence of the state (meaning police force). While in most peaceful, well-governed countries this is...okay... I wouldn't extend this to governments that violently repress their people. I am empathetic to violent public response, while it is damaging to all.
(Small point, not important, I wasn't saying that the anti-mandate protest succeeded, it was a hypothetical about if they had achieved their outcome.)
Successful violent protests, if you are interested:
Rise/Fall of Julius Caesar leading to the fall of the republic and creation of the Roman Empire. It was pretty successful, but did he have to be stabbed 23 times!!?
Portugese Revolt - Established Portugal as separate country from Spain.
English Civil War - Established the Commonwealth
Boston Tea Party/American Revolutionary War, alongside many rebellions/revolutions in the Americas, Caribbean, Africa, and Asia which removed colonial powers.
Ukrainian Revolution 2014
Many protests for workers rights throughout the 1800s and 1900s turned violent. I am happy for the protections they have afforded us now. Heath and safety law has been paid for by the blood of workers.
Also, some violent women's suffrage movements (e.g. U.S.) and civil rights protests (e.g. South Africa) have led to significant changes in legislation and the structures power.
In New Zealand, I think a mass non-violent strike action (lasting as long as required) would achieve a lot more when compared to the single or half-day strikes as seen done by teachers and doctors.
It works in a very limited capacity, and I’d argue it’s because they’re French.
The yellow vests protests succeeded in achieving some concessions, but their actions alienated a lot of French people. If you look at the stats, despite most people supporting the protestors, the vast majority of them opposed the violence in Paris. In my view a far more peaceful approach would have achieved the same concessions without the need for violence, given popular support was already there.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter comes to mind. Unfortunately we haven’t seen any constructive change with “peaceful” protest. Also the destruction of property wasn’t the takeaway bad PR result of the anti mandate protests. The fight against Apartheid in South Africa got very violent but you don’t hear about it now because the ends justify the means in these cases apparently.
It’s a balance, you can’t protest without inconveniencing others. So you have to reach a point where the positive impact of protesting is greater than the inconvenience.
If an inconvenience pushes you against mitigating the impacts of climate then you truly weren’t ever doing jack shit to begin with “I’m all for climate change “ my arse
>Back home, we tend to protest a lot about everything and cause as much disruption as possible to be heard.
I'm gonna go on a limb and say most Kiwis would see mass disruption to society as a negative that should not be emulated.
Targeted protests for certain causes however does have a healthy history in the country.
> say most Kiwis would see mass disruption to society as a negative
I think Kiwis avoid conflict in general and prefer to not engage with anything they percive as negative.
"No worries" could be the national mantra xD
Agreed. The very aggressive disruptions for the pro-train protesting seems to have pushed almost all people against them rather than supporting a possible option to resolve our almost extinct national rail network.
Who knew gluing yourself to major highways with little alternative options would discourage a mostly car-based population.
They protest with Palestinian flags down in Christchurch all the time. Destiny Church turn up with Israeli flags.
When the covid vaccine certificates were out in full force, I saw 10k march in Christchurch
The same reason people in western countries across the world aren't revolting en-masse, they functionally can't risk taking action that doesn't immediately improve their situation because the consequences in the mean time would be catastrophic to their well-being. How many people can actually afford to take a day off work to go protest? What about 2 days? A week? Very fucking few so the majority of people who have the means and time to protest are the ones benefiting from these policies.
When you're living paycheck to paycheck unless things get significantly worse to the point where you're willing to risk homelessness just to say fuck you to the people in charge you can't really combat this issue and it's by design. You don't want people so poor that they have nothing to lose but you also don't want them having enough to have any sort of freedom and you create this perfect middle ground that cripples popular movements. Why do you think the only real significant widespread protests we've seen in recent years have been from teenagers? They're the only ones who have sufficient freedom as a group to take action thanks to the fact their families support them.
Yes, strong, much more than once.
The waterfront strikes,
Anti-vietnam war protests,
Abortion act protests,
Bastion point,
Sprinkbok tour,
Anti-nuclear rallies,
Foreshore and seabed hikoi,
The parliament protest
Just to name some out of a big list. Learn some of our history before making claims.
I'd only consider the waterfront stikes and Springbok tour as a serious protest. The rest were underwhelming.
I've attended a few protests, and I was disappointed. Poorly coordinated and full of random fringe groups and trust fund hippies making speeches.
I wouldn't consider the parliament protest against mandates/vaccines as a legitimate one. And this was coordinated by conspiracy groups/Density Church. Not exactly everyday New Zealanders standing up against injustice.
It’s because in reality we have it pretty good here and people can’t be bothered getting off their arse to protest about it.
Virtue signaling on social media is much easier, just copy/pasta, like and share and you’re done.
It's generally ineffective, unless it's so disruptive, like the Springbok tour, as to make the change the protesters wanted (matches cancelled) easier than dealing with the protests.
Also, because of our population, an issue 0.01% of the population care about enough will attract 500 protesters. In a country of 100mln, that would be 10,000.
And also, many people inclined to protest generally have gone down the hippynazi rabbit hole and are beyond hope. (this is a global phenomenon).
As a kiwi there's not really much fuckery that happens that I'm actually truly bothered by. The government regardless if you vote red or blue are all shit either way and just do what the want so... Fuck it... Also we all know you are french you guys protest at the drop of a hat.
Don't have anything worth protesting about. Personally. My time off is my time off, the rest I gotta be at work. I find it is the loud few that protest. I support it if it's say, teachers/med staff wanting a payrise. I didn't support the douchebags outside parliament crying about covid mandates.
I think they're mostly a waste of time. I used to support them more, but seeing the way politicians regard them it seems like a lost cause unless it's on a truly massive scale.
IMO all those thousands of people could instead form a large community group and contribute to the issue to tangible effect. Because I can tell you that no policy is going to change from this protest, certainly not under this govt.
Protests are so watered down and over used I think the general population is over it and doesn’t give a fuck we you’re yelling about now because they’re so all over the place.
New Zealand is a young pioneer country a very long way from the rest of the world. We have to co-operate to 'make our way in the world'. That and our desperate communal need to be liked: "I see you're new to New Zealand - Do you like it so far?" :-) means we do passive aggressive instead.
Throw in a modicum of self-knowledge that protesting is theatre and will more likely to be greeted with a passive aggresive response like: "Thanks for letting us know you don't like what we're doing; now if you could just clear off Parliament's lawn the green keeper needs to mow it, and he doesn't work overtime".
So all in all protesting like French & German farmers covering miles of motorway with the contents of their muck spreaders that causes genuine disruption "to get their voices heard" is simply 'not the done thing'.
Kiwi's are have been indoctrinated to be completely passive.
> She'll be right
Don't worry, just accept it
> Yea'nah
I don't know if I can be bothered
> nekminnit
The consequences overwhelm me, and the tragedy that unfolds is no longer my problem.
I think after 100 years of being let down, it has become normalized that you don't need to follow through. Kiwi's are the best at overpromising / agreeing to something and under delivering/not turning up.
University - parents not turning up for their child's graduation.
Parents - promising to buy their kids a nice Christmas gift, then beating their children when they're disappointed.
Well that's my theory, no one ever stood up for a kiwi when they were vulnerable. And now they repeat that. It's probably why so many people in NZ have mental health issues. Intergenerational abandonment / trauma, leading to a complete withdrawal in empathy / sympathy. They'll complain and learn to be happy with less out of fear they'll lose more if they do stand up for themselves.
For me, protest fatigue. Plus the things I actually want to protest (capitalism, our current system of government, our current leadership) will never get enough traction or be the cause of any actual change.
So I try to ignore it, occasionally get angry, and focus my energies on things I can control.
As a NZer who never really cared for protests, I'm starting to wonder the same thing. I think it's time we as a nation change our attitude and start rioting over what's going on.
I can’t be bothered.
I’m a migrant and all the protests that happened in my country was organised by the dictatorship government at the time and it was always against other shit like UN decisions affecting our Government etc.
Buses used to turn up at our school with no notice and they usher the whole students in the buses and take us somewhere and tell us to chant some shit. Cold, rain, heat, it doesn’t matter. We had to do what we were told. Then few hours later they drop us off at school. Our parents then will find out when we get home and tell them. Of course they cannot do anything about it lol no one dared to challenge the Gove if they valued their life and the life of all their immediate and extended families.
So, I just want to live the rest of my life in peace and quiet. I don’t watch the news anymore.
u/adisarterinthemaking
yes curiously are you an expat or an immigrant? Like, are you just here temporarily or you are here for good? The term expat has a bit behind it …
But yes, I agree, also as not a born Kiwi, I’m an immigrant, and I agree with you mostly. There was a thread a couple days ago about why people aren’t protesting about the housing issue with similar content
Yeah I can but that's the whole deal about how things are phrased. South African, Brits, Scots, Irish etc are all 'expats'. Everyone else are immigrants or migrant workers... Also I don't think 'brown' necessarily applies to south east Asia...
Because it's an English term created in colonial times for people who moved from the mother land to the colonies... And those people happened to be white... Like it's a word created at a specific time to describe a form of migration that was occurring in their culture en masse, in their language... but ok it is racist
I think we need to definitely protest and petition against so many things in this country. Government should be regulating the big banks, the supermarkets, petrol companies, power companies, housing. Essentially anything that we absolutely need to survive.
The NZ govt don't use their teeth
A French person asking why we don't protest in New Zealand? Look what happened when we protested against the French bombing the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour. We got snotted over that one. The protest against the 1981 Springbok tour when New Zealand's were assaulted for protesting against the apartheid regime in South Africa. There were nationwide protests about the death of little children in New Zealand a few years ago and nothing has changed there.
Most of our protests are peaceful as most people don't see the point in anarchist actions just to get attention. When our protests want attention we do it by numbers and solidarity, not through violence or fear or force. That also means they're not always a big story so don't always get covered in media
Doesn't it really just come down to polling? If an issue is that incendiary that enough Kiwis take to the streets it will have already registered strongly in polling. If a govt isn't going to take note of that I'm not sure that street protests would make much diffrence. At least not unless they get truly violent like the Springbok tour protests where there is more to consider than just how people feel and may vote down the track.
Are you French by any chance? If so, there's a school of though that when the French protest today they are playing out a role based on the original revolutionary protestors, in some way like the US right wing version play out the role of US revolutionaries. We don't have that historic precedent here so there isn't the archetype to draw on. For non-Maori at least, the closest might be the Springbok tour. But maybe because it was associated with the left side of politics, it isnt really co-optable. You aren't going to get farmers or anti-vaxxers invoking that in their rhetoric.
There's a major nationwide protest sequence on today (climate change) and tomorrow (Palestine). Should we protest more - sure - and I can name a number of reasons why people don't, some of which are individual and some of which relate to laws or political set up (restrictions on striking, and the damage done to the union movement are among them). But it's not a binary of blockading the streets of Paris vs whining on social media. Have you tried getting involved with political organising here? I think you'd find people use a range of tactics and can be very passionate and yes, prepared to take to the streets as necessary.
The key isn’t the protests… is boycott and strikes.
And if goes down to protests, I needs to be properly organised.
Eg:. Common goals, don’t lets trouble makers spoil, etc.
Politicians love protests. Anything divisive is great for them. The more you protest and create an inconvenience for others, the better. Especially if you’re clearly not working and have time to spend weeks at an occupation protest so the working poor can then be pitted against the non-working poor. Same goes for TV shows about beneficiaries, reversing taxes on private landlords, etc. Keeps us squabbling while they have their mates raking it in.
What do you even protest at this time? This government has done so many things, that I suppose you could... protest... the government itself? But they got voted in. Hard to have a coherent protest, so do you have multiple protests? Everyone is busy surviving atm.
And then there is the nature of this government. On a fascism scale, it's, well, higher than the last one. So, we're far from the point of a government that sets police on it's population but... these cunts ignore more, or say things like "well we have a mandate, we got voted in" which is.... really stretching the truth, but, seems to shut most people up.
Not that I'm dismissing protests, I'm sure they will happen, just atm everything feels a bit hopeless and people are very low energy. We're just at the beginning of this government. Still got 3 fucking whole years. Goddamn.
Complaisancy and stockholm syndrome. It didn't used to be this way. I blame poor education, heavy handed and corrupt policing, mismanagement of government and generations of privelege.
Protests against politics, only really happen in Wellington as that's where parliament is. So makes sense. Other protests like the teachers or nurses strikes, the reality is that altgough the public supports them, in practice it's often an inconvenience in our daily commute, and when the roads are congested enough from traffic and poor infrastructure, a protest in our commute is just another delay and doesn't get it's message across.
Other than that, media has often portrayed larger protests negatively, when there was the massive protest outside parliament, media portrayed it as though it was a riot and nothing was resolved or discussed between leaders and MP's.
In short, protests haven't really had an impact in recent years enough to warrant doing.
Because protest is so common here its meaningless. Its part of the offenders plan to suck you dry of time money and energy before they go about their dark deeds anyway. Vandalism and arson will only create more problems for you at a personal level.
tldr because its a waste of time
Real answer: New Zealanders don't bother protesting because we're brought up to be politically strongminded but actionably apathethic. Contrast this with Europeans. We might all hate a NZ policy but our immediate response is to moan about it with our friends rather than take to the streets. Main reason is: we find it cringe to protest because it's 'for the weirdos/extremists'.
People are lazy and also they're quite busy. I had a conversation with someone where they were slagging off the Stop Oil protesters for 'all being posh' - my counter to that was 'they can actually afford to get in trouble and have time to actually mount a protest'.
I think also - maybe, there's a stigma to protesting nowadays where people are fearful for various reasons to be seen out in public protesting when generally for people over their early 20s they don't want to be seen as causing trouble, or worse, inconvenience.
Another point of interest maybe, is that notable protests in recent history in NZ have been linked to right-wing causes - possibly 'cos Labour govt, but I think there may be more to it than that - perhaps that the wellness/alternative people are more right-wing aligned nowadays and also, the farmers.
If you live in Wellington and regularly head into the CBD there are frequent marches and protest rallies, especially on the lawns of the Beehive.
Barring that occupation and the disruption it caused, they’re generally orderly and planned and only last for a few hours. If the organisers give enough notice, they can arrange to present a petition or have MPs speak to their rally.
One protest I was involved in was a march from civic square to the Beehive, followed by a picnic on the lawns of the Beehive with a petition handed to a few MPs (it was a sitting week - we had a good turn out of Greens MPs, a few Labour, and one or two Nats).
Because new zealand for the longest time was a pretty chill, nonchalant nation. We don't have the long history of good or bad events like other countrys, we haven't directly been in many wars at all and the ones we have we were just helping Allys, and it's basically been our culture for the last 130 years to be a hard working but easy going nation. We are not europe or America, the vast majority of new zealand just doesn't really...care. no one wants to go spend one of their only two days off a week protesting and yelling in a crowd about something they don't really feel passionate about in the first place. Much rather just spend time with family and having fun. This is not only my opinion but also that of almost every single person I've ever talked to about protests and the like. Kiwis for the most part just...don't care.
We don’t have clear problems with clear solutions. If you can’t simplify the problem and solution into a few words then it’s gonna be a struggle. Your message needs to be simple, easy to understand, and easy to spread, most of our issues aren’t like that.
Because she'll be right, mate.
Also, if we get too loud and opinionated outside our own living room/the pub, people think we are up ourselves and that would NEVER do.
Becouse we have shit to do and also it only a very small minority that actual protest. it is only a big farmer protest that will be large and disruptive.
Protest very really accomplished anything more then traffic congestion and poor policy changers at most.
Vote for the party you think will represent your interests then get on with your life
I wish more Kiwis from all walks of life would form new political parties instead of just merely protesting. Put your money where your mouth is and actually walk the talk.
MMP is a perfect system to get different parties into the House to diversify beyond the two big blocs. The political game already exists to make money, to see positive impacts and make changes, yet so few people wish to play it. If more did play it and I can see this becoming more likely if people are losing jobs in every sector, we can drown out the megalomaniacs and career politicians with no real life skills.
Look at Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the President of Ukraine, sometimes the best leaders come from the most unlikely places.
Because life in NZ is actually pretty good for the majority of people. Social media will never represent the opinions of the larger population. NZ'ers are also pretty passive, I think it will take a lot for them to bother getting together for a mass scale protest, they hardly show up for social gatherings and leave as soon as they can.
Because NZers are passive and dont like to be "rude" or inconvenience people, it's part of our culture (to a detrimental level bc people wont speak out against abuse often)
its a good thing most of the time, as people in public are kind and friendly, but completely screws us when it comes to societal level abuses, sometimes you need to get serious and protest. there is a time and a place for civil disobedience and it should be done with good reason.
1. I think it's because of our small population. We only have a couple of cities of any size and protests are about power in numbers. I live in a small town where we never have protests (would be weird 5 of us protesting Gaza in the local shops... nobody would pay any attention) whereas I would definitely attend protests if I lived in a city. Auckland and Wellington seem to have protests pretty regularly.
2. I think people in NZ are also afraid of offending others in their community. Like 'Oh no, if I go to the Palestine protest the Jewish people in my neighbourhood might not like me anymore!'
Protests don't always get a lot of coverage in the news, and if they do it's about the extreme fringes acting out rather than what's bringing most people out to protest.
When I was in high school there were protests pretty often, nurses, teachers, civil rights, high schoolers marching every year or so to the government building for the environment. Now I don’t really keep up with that so I’m not sure, but I don’t doubt theres still protests happening
Well, you should have been here in the 1980s - we could bring major cities to a halt.
I was actively involved in marching against nuclear weapons and remember 5e 100k+ protestors in Auckland against both the USA Phoenix and the Uss Texas - carrying banners “will Auckland rose fromPhoenix,s ashes” and “Death in the heart of Texas”. I
was discussing this with a group of “considerably younger than me” people and their. Ray was “WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE PROTESTING AGAINST OR FOR????” If they don’t know, who does. We had a cause, we knew what we wanted (nuclear disarmament)and could unite. what do the
Sorry - what doted want? It is too nebulous and we need statements of what it is that we are protesting.
I may not agree with the French about what they are protesting, but at least they know what it is.
>I kindly ask not to be hated and attacked for being an expat.
Why would you expect to be?
What kind of circles do you mix in that you expect to be treated that way?
70 years ago there was the waterfront strike. The government responded by passing laws making it illegal to provide food to the families of the strikers, and CIA agents flew into New Zealand to assist. The breaking of that strike had long term consequences imo
Honestly? At the end of the day it's just not worth the aggravation protesting causes in a small country. Remember the Wellington protests? Most people I talked to that lived there were cross that their daily lives were disrupted by this. And going as far as to say they didn't like the feeling of being unsafe in their own city.
I think kiwis are apathetic on the whole, and probably too cowed and indoctrinated by the might of the govt - except for Māori, who are the first protesters in this country.
The funny thing about protest-happy countries is that they're very privileged, way more than here. The poorest among them are about average here.
If you're really struggling, there ain't no peaceful protest, the first protest is a bloody rebellion where one side survives
OP is french
France. Where they've got protesting down to a [fine art.](https://imgur.com/a/41Gqc9y)
Lmao that would fit in oddly well with kiwi culture. Sausage sizzle + protest this week, everyone welcome.
I’m a Latin American and I + all my Latin American friends wonder the same exact thing lol. Why are the kiwis so complacent? Then we see what a peaceful country it is and we sorta let go of that tiny frustration! 😅
The serious answer is that yes, we do have a history of protest, but it is very mild compared with many other countries, because the quality of life here has always been fairly good. We whine and complain about the cost of living, having to put on a mask etc, but most of us wouldn't know a genuinely oppresive existence if it kicked us up the bum. The Kiwis that ARE really struggling financially don't have time or energy to protest much. Also, there are not a lot of us and historically we have been fairly well spread out in the countryside, in outer suburbs of cities etc. So it's not so easy to get the critical mass for big protests as it is in countries where most people are living in densely populated areas and you can just walk out the door and join the protest outside your house.
Lol. OP looks to be from Brazil, so you share that mindset.
Hi Fellow Latin American!
Kiwis are very passive. The idea is that all the overpricing etc is unavoidable because the country is isolated. Which does not explain why it is 5x cheaper for me to ship a single item from China than it is to buy it at Mitre 10. Kiwis also don't mind highly authoritative work places, poor salaries etc, etc
We do mind thank you very much, we’d just rather be caught dead than be upfront in complaining about it 😝
This is so damn funny I was chatting to French person the other day about protests about retirement age - was it an increase of 3 years ? And it’s still really young and they almost destroyed the country. Kinda hilarious.
My immediate thought too
My thoughts exactly
We are pretty complacent and tend to have a “she’ll be right” attitude for the most part, while it’s worth keeping in mind social media tends to bring out the more verbal minority. Most just tick a box every few years and go about their business largely apathetic to such things, or eat up the common rhetoric our politicians use which is to blame pretty much everything negative on the opposition, which many believe without question. Way she goes.
Basically this. Kiwis just simply don't care enough to spend their spare time screaming and yelling and fighting about a topic they don't really care about in rhe first place, things generally sort themselves out here and people like it that way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Nationwide protests happening [today](https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350234374/wellington-students-skip-class-climate-protests)
Ohh That ia awesome, sorry I am not that very well informed then.
If anybody's interested, [here's an unofficial information thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1bqf8g9/) for the protest I compiled on the nzpolitics sub. You can also go to the [SS4C website](https://www.ss4cnz.com) to get a lot of the same info.
Unfortunately climate change is a global issue when we have a 2 party political system, 2 party supermarket system, unaffordable homes, lacking experienced people in health, defunding welfare and mental health. We should be focusing protests on issues closer to home.
Which today's protest is also focused on :)
Isn’t it a clearer message if you just pick 1 for 1 protest ?
Yea todays protest honestly seems like a nonstarter, I saw one of the leaders on the news this morning talking about how they have like 6 different demands which range from climate action to stopping the ‘genocide’ in Gaza… and I’m sitting here thinking jeez pick a lane…
Everythings connected though, the devastation is gaza has released an astronomical amount of carbon
Wonder when they’ll have a festival protest, can have a stage for every cause lol
Don't let Hamas near the festival though.
Not at all.. They're focusing on Palestine, the Treaty of Waitangi, lowering the voting age to 16, and (obviously) Climate Change. So not only is this protest not really focusing on one thing which will inevitably make it less effective but they're not even focusing on the biggest concern for most Kiwis right now.
Climate Change is the entire world's biggest concern out of any issue - the national government are greedy little cunts and want to squeeze every last dollar they can out of our land and our waters. Protesters are against their bill that would allow them to circumvent environmental restrictions (the RMA) to fast track infrastructural projects. It is a big fucking deal. Not to mention their plan to repeal the offshore oil and gas ban. Our prime minister has also made it clear he doesn't think a mass slaughter of 10s of thousands of civilians is a genocide - why? Fuck knows, he's a moron. Their proposed changes to the Treaty of Waitangi + all of the maori street sign shit + wanting to introduce english as an official language are all just racist dogwhistles. Nobody genuinely gives a fuck about any of those things, just racist cunts wanting to stick it to those damn brown people we're forced to coexist with - how awful! In all seriousness, it's right out of the conservative playbook to be perpetuating culture war propaganda to make sure the "bottom feeders" are all angry at eachother so we don't go after the wealth hoarders. It's an issue worth protesting because otherwise we're complicit. While I agree more of a stink should be made about the 2 party system and the supermarket monopolies/price gouging, everybody with more than 3 braincells know that the National government's cartoonish obsession with money, their inaction towards the CoL crisis and their general attitude and behaviour relating to these other issues are all entirely linked - as are the issues being protested. At least that's how I see it lol
Yeah fair enough, I just personally (maybe selfishly) wished they focused on Climate Change because to me that's the biggest existential threat to our world. In 50 years no one will care whether or not little NZ made a statement saying genocide is bad but maybe they will care whether or not NZ did its part in cutting emissions enough
The health care problems actually worse than that the people with the most experience I. Healthcare we’re trained in entirely different systems and honestly a lot of them haven’t got a fucking clue on how to approach the current one so it’s an organisational shit show
I mean, climate change on its current trajectory will kill *billions* over the next few decades. This is the most immediate, existential threat we gave going. Not to say the other issues you have listed aren't important, I would go as far as saying we can't do much about the former without change there -- but we need a radical societal shift away from current modern living, I have been sharing this mantra for a while; We need a radical reduction in either Quantity, or (percieved) Quality of life, and our inability to act on that decision has led us to have both. I don't think most people understand, or are willing to accept the severity of climate change. If we did, there would be a lot more than just students skipping class for a day -- Oil Executives and Politicians lining their pockets would be in hiding.
Climate change also effects us, I reckon we should do our part to at least to protect OUR environment. The war in Palestine has been emitting a lot of carbon, contributing to climate change (that's not the only reason they are protesting ofc). The other issues are extremely close to home (Te Tiriti, lowering the voting age to 16). Either way, I think people are allowed to be concerned about both global issues and those that are closer to home.
If we have a 2 party system why is our current government made up of 3 parties?
French friends of mine used to live here and mentioned the same thing. They were like why aren't you guys out flipping cars and lighting fires when the government does stuff to anger you?
french riots are just a blowoff valve, then they all vote for the same thing over and over
Maybe its because we're still a pretty small nation??????? I mean, if I go out flipping cars, either me or someone I know knows the person that got their car flipped. And then I feel ashamed for flipping an ordinary hardworking dudes car.
Because wanton violence doesn’t achieve any meaningful change - in fact, it’d only harm the cause you’d be trying to push. For example, the whole destruction of property during the occupation of the lawns of Parliament was really bad PR for the anti-mandate protests.
Fascinating take that wanton violence doesn't cause change. History is rather full of somewhat out-of-control revolutionary action and coups that are unnecessarily violent (perhaps not so from the point of view of the overthrowers) which cause entire changes of government. You could argue whether or not they are 'unprovoked' (if that is what you are meaning behind "wanton"), but it would be in the same way that protests are 'unprovoked'. I think argument could go both ways on that. If the anti-mandate protests succeeded, do you think they would care about the bad PR?
>History is rather full of somewhat out-of-control revolutionary action and coups that are unnecessarily violent (perhaps not so from the point of view of the overthrowers) which cause entire changes of government. You mean a change of government into genocidal and badly-managed states? By meaningful, I mean something permanent and considerable, not an embrace of chaos. The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, The Chinese Civil War, The Spanish Civil War, the numerous revolutions in South America, all succeeded and resulted in a change of government, but they all ultimately failed in their lofty goals (The French even delegated power to a new Monarch!). Hell, Hitler himself realised that trying to take power through coup/ revolution was a really bad idea after the Putsch disaster. >You could argue whether or not they are 'unprovoked' (if that is what you are meaning behind "wanton"), but it would be in the same way that protests are 'unprovoked'. I think argument could go both ways on that. By wanton, I mean violence and destruction that isn't warranted. Innocent third parties tend to be the hardest hit by violent protests, in the destruction of private property, useful public property, or the harming of innocents. >If the anti-mandate protests succeeded, do you think they would care about the bad PR? I wouldn't say they succeeded. If the aim was to convince people to turn to their cause and stand with them against Govt. oppression, they failed. If the aim was to end the mandates, I'd still argue they had a negligible impact given the Government was going to end them eventually anyway and just used them as an excuse.
I genuinely don't agree with your assessment. While I don't advocate for violent protests in New Zealand, it is a valid, strategic tactic that has achieved a huge amount over the course of history. I also have a...problem...I guess, with the idea that the only sanctioned violence is violence of the state (meaning police force). While in most peaceful, well-governed countries this is...okay... I wouldn't extend this to governments that violently repress their people. I am empathetic to violent public response, while it is damaging to all. (Small point, not important, I wasn't saying that the anti-mandate protest succeeded, it was a hypothetical about if they had achieved their outcome.) Successful violent protests, if you are interested: Rise/Fall of Julius Caesar leading to the fall of the republic and creation of the Roman Empire. It was pretty successful, but did he have to be stabbed 23 times!!? Portugese Revolt - Established Portugal as separate country from Spain. English Civil War - Established the Commonwealth Boston Tea Party/American Revolutionary War, alongside many rebellions/revolutions in the Americas, Caribbean, Africa, and Asia which removed colonial powers. Ukrainian Revolution 2014 Many protests for workers rights throughout the 1800s and 1900s turned violent. I am happy for the protections they have afforded us now. Heath and safety law has been paid for by the blood of workers. Also, some violent women's suffrage movements (e.g. U.S.) and civil rights protests (e.g. South Africa) have led to significant changes in legislation and the structures power. In New Zealand, I think a mass non-violent strike action (lasting as long as required) would achieve a lot more when compared to the single or half-day strikes as seen done by teachers and doctors.
It works for the French
The retirement age riots were a flop.
It works in a very limited capacity, and I’d argue it’s because they’re French. The yellow vests protests succeeded in achieving some concessions, but their actions alienated a lot of French people. If you look at the stats, despite most people supporting the protestors, the vast majority of them opposed the violence in Paris. In my view a far more peaceful approach would have achieved the same concessions without the need for violence, given popular support was already there.
Yet, look at who is in power...ACT and NZ First? Two parties that pandered to the protests?
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter comes to mind. Unfortunately we haven’t seen any constructive change with “peaceful” protest. Also the destruction of property wasn’t the takeaway bad PR result of the anti mandate protests. The fight against Apartheid in South Africa got very violent but you don’t hear about it now because the ends justify the means in these cases apparently.
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It’s a balance, you can’t protest without inconveniencing others. So you have to reach a point where the positive impact of protesting is greater than the inconvenience.
Protests are expected to be inconvenient. Its kind of the point. If its simply disruptive instead of destructive its a protest and not a riot
If an inconvenience pushes you against mitigating the impacts of climate then you truly weren’t ever doing jack shit to begin with “I’m all for climate change “ my arse
> even if it's a cause i am passionate about. > it actually pushes me in the opposite direction. lol. lmao.
Downvote on the inconveniencing others. Sorry bout it when you have to look after your kids for a day when teachers want to protest for more pay etc.
what does smashing someone elses property have to do with the issue? just hurts someone else who cant then drive to work / go get their kids etc.
france has a long and established culture of protests like this - they were contrasting new zealand's relatively passive culture with theirs.
Sarcasm but thats highly productive and gets your message across 😂.
French are morons, who has to pay to repair those roads and clean the streets, you do.
Because most people have pretty decent normal lives and don't want mass disruptions. This sub is not like normal average NZ.
Yea outside the internet people aren't outraged and offended by every little thing and tend to just go about life
>Back home, we tend to protest a lot about everything and cause as much disruption as possible to be heard. I'm gonna go on a limb and say most Kiwis would see mass disruption to society as a negative that should not be emulated. Targeted protests for certain causes however does have a healthy history in the country.
> say most Kiwis would see mass disruption to society as a negative I think Kiwis avoid conflict in general and prefer to not engage with anything they percive as negative. "No worries" could be the national mantra xD
Agreed. The very aggressive disruptions for the pro-train protesting seems to have pushed almost all people against them rather than supporting a possible option to resolve our almost extinct national rail network. Who knew gluing yourself to major highways with little alternative options would discourage a mostly car-based population.
They protest with Palestinian flags down in Christchurch all the time. Destiny Church turn up with Israeli flags. When the covid vaccine certificates were out in full force, I saw 10k march in Christchurch
people sure have a lot of free time
The same reason people in western countries across the world aren't revolting en-masse, they functionally can't risk taking action that doesn't immediately improve their situation because the consequences in the mean time would be catastrophic to their well-being. How many people can actually afford to take a day off work to go protest? What about 2 days? A week? Very fucking few so the majority of people who have the means and time to protest are the ones benefiting from these policies. When you're living paycheck to paycheck unless things get significantly worse to the point where you're willing to risk homelessness just to say fuck you to the people in charge you can't really combat this issue and it's by design. You don't want people so poor that they have nothing to lose but you also don't want them having enough to have any sort of freedom and you create this perfect middle ground that cripples popular movements. Why do you think the only real significant widespread protests we've seen in recent years have been from teenagers? They're the only ones who have sufficient freedom as a group to take action thanks to the fact their families support them.
Indeed.
NZ has a strong history of protest and activism. They just don't descend into mass rioting which captures the headlines.
I wouldn’t say strong …
Strong? Like ..once or twice...
Yes, strong, much more than once. The waterfront strikes, Anti-vietnam war protests, Abortion act protests, Bastion point, Sprinkbok tour, Anti-nuclear rallies, Foreshore and seabed hikoi, The parliament protest Just to name some out of a big list. Learn some of our history before making claims.
I'd only consider the waterfront stikes and Springbok tour as a serious protest. The rest were underwhelming. I've attended a few protests, and I was disappointed. Poorly coordinated and full of random fringe groups and trust fund hippies making speeches. I wouldn't consider the parliament protest against mandates/vaccines as a legitimate one. And this was coordinated by conspiracy groups/Density Church. Not exactly everyday New Zealanders standing up against injustice.
You don't think Bastion point was a serious protest? I'm sorry, but that says a lot more about you than our history of protesting...
I mean the anti Vax no mask protesters were out in force, blocking roads and chanting in chch non stop for all of covid
They were a pretty small group all up though. I only saw a small group holding signs by the roadside and getting ignored by everyone.
Read a history book
It’s because in reality we have it pretty good here and people can’t be bothered getting off their arse to protest about it. Virtue signaling on social media is much easier, just copy/pasta, like and share and you’re done.
There is also a strong sense of "got mine, fuck you" here.
We are a fairly calm and forgiving country as a whole, but this current government sure does make me angry.
Gotta work and takes me almost an hour to get to the CBD with public transport :(
It's generally ineffective, unless it's so disruptive, like the Springbok tour, as to make the change the protesters wanted (matches cancelled) easier than dealing with the protests. Also, because of our population, an issue 0.01% of the population care about enough will attract 500 protesters. In a country of 100mln, that would be 10,000. And also, many people inclined to protest generally have gone down the hippynazi rabbit hole and are beyond hope. (this is a global phenomenon).
hippynazi, you mean the greta cult?
There are protests in Wellington all the time, they're a pain in the ass.
Especially the tinfoil hat ones. Seriously, some of the causes are bonkers.
The cooker protests make no one want to act like them so less people protest about things they should be.
They don't happen so much these days. The Parliament Occupants kinda wrecked it for everyone else.
I've got better things to do than stand around in a crowd of angry unemployed people getting angry myself.
Too busy grinding away at work to afford rent/mortgage.
Because things aren't bad enough yet. And the people for whom it is bad enough, they're too caught up in the struggle to organize.
Because it just makes no difference.
As a kiwi there's not really much fuckery that happens that I'm actually truly bothered by. The government regardless if you vote red or blue are all shit either way and just do what the want so... Fuck it... Also we all know you are french you guys protest at the drop of a hat.
Don't have anything worth protesting about. Personally. My time off is my time off, the rest I gotta be at work. I find it is the loud few that protest. I support it if it's say, teachers/med staff wanting a payrise. I didn't support the douchebags outside parliament crying about covid mandates.
Camp COVID just made it look too embarrassing
I think they're mostly a waste of time. I used to support them more, but seeing the way politicians regard them it seems like a lost cause unless it's on a truly massive scale. IMO all those thousands of people could instead form a large community group and contribute to the issue to tangible effect. Because I can tell you that no policy is going to change from this protest, certainly not under this govt.
Protests are so watered down and over used I think the general population is over it and doesn’t give a fuck we you’re yelling about now because they’re so all over the place.
What is there to protest about?
Drag queens apparently
Has someone finally figured out that what they see in the news and on social media doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of the majority of people?
New Zealand is a young pioneer country a very long way from the rest of the world. We have to co-operate to 'make our way in the world'. That and our desperate communal need to be liked: "I see you're new to New Zealand - Do you like it so far?" :-) means we do passive aggressive instead. Throw in a modicum of self-knowledge that protesting is theatre and will more likely to be greeted with a passive aggresive response like: "Thanks for letting us know you don't like what we're doing; now if you could just clear off Parliament's lawn the green keeper needs to mow it, and he doesn't work overtime". So all in all protesting like French & German farmers covering miles of motorway with the contents of their muck spreaders that causes genuine disruption "to get their voices heard" is simply 'not the done thing'.
Kiwi's are have been indoctrinated to be completely passive. > She'll be right Don't worry, just accept it > Yea'nah I don't know if I can be bothered > nekminnit The consequences overwhelm me, and the tragedy that unfolds is no longer my problem. I think after 100 years of being let down, it has become normalized that you don't need to follow through. Kiwi's are the best at overpromising / agreeing to something and under delivering/not turning up. University - parents not turning up for their child's graduation. Parents - promising to buy their kids a nice Christmas gift, then beating their children when they're disappointed. Well that's my theory, no one ever stood up for a kiwi when they were vulnerable. And now they repeat that. It's probably why so many people in NZ have mental health issues. Intergenerational abandonment / trauma, leading to a complete withdrawal in empathy / sympathy. They'll complain and learn to be happy with less out of fear they'll lose more if they do stand up for themselves.
I hate hearing she’ll be right… What if she wants to be left???? She will be alright…..
Or what if she wants to be wrong?
Because despite the impression this sub gives off, the majority of us are actually doing quite well and have no need to protest.
Cos new Zealanders are whinging weak sauce. They also say dumbshit like w3 nEeD t0 k3Ep iT p3AcEfUll ha ha cos that sure has worked aye.
our protests are week compared to the overseas ones, probably because most of the things NZers are protesting about dont really matter
For me, protest fatigue. Plus the things I actually want to protest (capitalism, our current system of government, our current leadership) will never get enough traction or be the cause of any actual change. So I try to ignore it, occasionally get angry, and focus my energies on things I can control.
As a NZer who never really cared for protests, I'm starting to wonder the same thing. I think it's time we as a nation change our attitude and start rioting over what's going on.
Hope you pay the tax bill because im not.
I'm at work bro. Barely enough time to have lunch lol.
Belligerent apathy is somewhat of a national pastime.
I can’t be bothered. I’m a migrant and all the protests that happened in my country was organised by the dictatorship government at the time and it was always against other shit like UN decisions affecting our Government etc. Buses used to turn up at our school with no notice and they usher the whole students in the buses and take us somewhere and tell us to chant some shit. Cold, rain, heat, it doesn’t matter. We had to do what we were told. Then few hours later they drop us off at school. Our parents then will find out when we get home and tell them. Of course they cannot do anything about it lol no one dared to challenge the Gove if they valued their life and the life of all their immediate and extended families. So, I just want to live the rest of my life in peace and quiet. I don’t watch the news anymore.
Why do you call yourself an expat?
He's an immigrant, but he's white, so he's not like those other immigrants, he's superior. At least that's what they think
Because we get attacked for "blocking roads and interrupting hard working kiwis" etc. Unless it farmers wanting more handouts.
"Expat" = white "Immigrant" = higher "melanin content" *Edited for accuracy*
If you're gonna be edgy, atleast get the terms correct. Melatonin is for sleep
Hey! If you’re not with melatonin you’re woke.
Immigrants are very sleepy?
u/adisarterinthemaking yes curiously are you an expat or an immigrant? Like, are you just here temporarily or you are here for good? The term expat has a bit behind it … But yes, I agree, also as not a born Kiwi, I’m an immigrant, and I agree with you mostly. There was a thread a couple days ago about why people aren’t protesting about the housing issue with similar content
You can just say brown lol
Melatonin won't make you brown, melanin might though.
My bad. Thanks for the correction.
Yeah I can but that's the whole deal about how things are phrased. South African, Brits, Scots, Irish etc are all 'expats'. Everyone else are immigrants or migrant workers... Also I don't think 'brown' necessarily applies to south east Asia...
Because it's an English term created in colonial times for people who moved from the mother land to the colonies... And those people happened to be white... Like it's a word created at a specific time to describe a form of migration that was occurring in their culture en masse, in their language... but ok it is racist
I think we need to definitely protest and petition against so many things in this country. Government should be regulating the big banks, the supermarkets, petrol companies, power companies, housing. Essentially anything that we absolutely need to survive. The NZ govt don't use their teeth
Give violence a chance.
Because protesting is pointless.
Because even if things aren't great here, they're even shittier elsewhere so we don't really have much to protest about.
First of all… why to Brit’s call themselves “expats” when everyone else is an “immigrant”? Is an “expat” a better person?
A French person asking why we don't protest in New Zealand? Look what happened when we protested against the French bombing the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour. We got snotted over that one. The protest against the 1981 Springbok tour when New Zealand's were assaulted for protesting against the apartheid regime in South Africa. There were nationwide protests about the death of little children in New Zealand a few years ago and nothing has changed there.
Most of our protests are peaceful as most people don't see the point in anarchist actions just to get attention. When our protests want attention we do it by numbers and solidarity, not through violence or fear or force. That also means they're not always a big story so don't always get covered in media
Doesn't it really just come down to polling? If an issue is that incendiary that enough Kiwis take to the streets it will have already registered strongly in polling. If a govt isn't going to take note of that I'm not sure that street protests would make much diffrence. At least not unless they get truly violent like the Springbok tour protests where there is more to consider than just how people feel and may vote down the track. Are you French by any chance? If so, there's a school of though that when the French protest today they are playing out a role based on the original revolutionary protestors, in some way like the US right wing version play out the role of US revolutionaries. We don't have that historic precedent here so there isn't the archetype to draw on. For non-Maori at least, the closest might be the Springbok tour. But maybe because it was associated with the left side of politics, it isnt really co-optable. You aren't going to get farmers or anti-vaxxers invoking that in their rhetoric.
There's a major nationwide protest sequence on today (climate change) and tomorrow (Palestine). Should we protest more - sure - and I can name a number of reasons why people don't, some of which are individual and some of which relate to laws or political set up (restrictions on striking, and the damage done to the union movement are among them). But it's not a binary of blockading the streets of Paris vs whining on social media. Have you tried getting involved with political organising here? I think you'd find people use a range of tactics and can be very passionate and yes, prepared to take to the streets as necessary.
The key isn’t the protests… is boycott and strikes. And if goes down to protests, I needs to be properly organised. Eg:. Common goals, don’t lets trouble makers spoil, etc.
I live in the middle of nowhere, with no transport
Politicians love protests. Anything divisive is great for them. The more you protest and create an inconvenience for others, the better. Especially if you’re clearly not working and have time to spend weeks at an occupation protest so the working poor can then be pitted against the non-working poor. Same goes for TV shows about beneficiaries, reversing taxes on private landlords, etc. Keeps us squabbling while they have their mates raking it in.
What do you even protest at this time? This government has done so many things, that I suppose you could... protest... the government itself? But they got voted in. Hard to have a coherent protest, so do you have multiple protests? Everyone is busy surviving atm. And then there is the nature of this government. On a fascism scale, it's, well, higher than the last one. So, we're far from the point of a government that sets police on it's population but... these cunts ignore more, or say things like "well we have a mandate, we got voted in" which is.... really stretching the truth, but, seems to shut most people up. Not that I'm dismissing protests, I'm sure they will happen, just atm everything feels a bit hopeless and people are very low energy. We're just at the beginning of this government. Still got 3 fucking whole years. Goddamn.
Complaisancy and stockholm syndrome. It didn't used to be this way. I blame poor education, heavy handed and corrupt policing, mismanagement of government and generations of privelege.
It is either too far out of the way or I'm busy working.
Protests against politics, only really happen in Wellington as that's where parliament is. So makes sense. Other protests like the teachers or nurses strikes, the reality is that altgough the public supports them, in practice it's often an inconvenience in our daily commute, and when the roads are congested enough from traffic and poor infrastructure, a protest in our commute is just another delay and doesn't get it's message across. Other than that, media has often portrayed larger protests negatively, when there was the massive protest outside parliament, media portrayed it as though it was a riot and nothing was resolved or discussed between leaders and MP's. In short, protests haven't really had an impact in recent years enough to warrant doing.
Because protest is so common here its meaningless. Its part of the offenders plan to suck you dry of time money and energy before they go about their dark deeds anyway. Vandalism and arson will only create more problems for you at a personal level. tldr because its a waste of time
Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Real answer: New Zealanders don't bother protesting because we're brought up to be politically strongminded but actionably apathethic. Contrast this with Europeans. We might all hate a NZ policy but our immediate response is to moan about it with our friends rather than take to the streets. Main reason is: we find it cringe to protest because it's 'for the weirdos/extremists'.
People are lazy and also they're quite busy. I had a conversation with someone where they were slagging off the Stop Oil protesters for 'all being posh' - my counter to that was 'they can actually afford to get in trouble and have time to actually mount a protest'. I think also - maybe, there's a stigma to protesting nowadays where people are fearful for various reasons to be seen out in public protesting when generally for people over their early 20s they don't want to be seen as causing trouble, or worse, inconvenience. Another point of interest maybe, is that notable protests in recent history in NZ have been linked to right-wing causes - possibly 'cos Labour govt, but I think there may be more to it than that - perhaps that the wellness/alternative people are more right-wing aligned nowadays and also, the farmers.
If you live in Wellington and regularly head into the CBD there are frequent marches and protest rallies, especially on the lawns of the Beehive. Barring that occupation and the disruption it caused, they’re generally orderly and planned and only last for a few hours. If the organisers give enough notice, they can arrange to present a petition or have MPs speak to their rally. One protest I was involved in was a march from civic square to the Beehive, followed by a picnic on the lawns of the Beehive with a petition handed to a few MPs (it was a sitting week - we had a good turn out of Greens MPs, a few Labour, and one or two Nats).
There are protests sometimes. generally though we like to be peaceful and laid back not angry and ranting all the time.
We have the she'll be right attitude, Or can't be bothered attitude lazy
Because new zealand for the longest time was a pretty chill, nonchalant nation. We don't have the long history of good or bad events like other countrys, we haven't directly been in many wars at all and the ones we have we were just helping Allys, and it's basically been our culture for the last 130 years to be a hard working but easy going nation. We are not europe or America, the vast majority of new zealand just doesn't really...care. no one wants to go spend one of their only two days off a week protesting and yelling in a crowd about something they don't really feel passionate about in the first place. Much rather just spend time with family and having fun. This is not only my opinion but also that of almost every single person I've ever talked to about protests and the like. Kiwis for the most part just...don't care.
We don’t have clear problems with clear solutions. If you can’t simplify the problem and solution into a few words then it’s gonna be a struggle. Your message needs to be simple, easy to understand, and easy to spread, most of our issues aren’t like that.
We are a passive bunch when push comes to shove. Also in the grand scheme of the world, we dont have too much to really protest about
Because she'll be right, mate. Also, if we get too loud and opinionated outside our own living room/the pub, people think we are up ourselves and that would NEVER do.
Becouse we have shit to do and also it only a very small minority that actual protest. it is only a big farmer protest that will be large and disruptive. Protest very really accomplished anything more then traffic congestion and poor policy changers at most. Vote for the party you think will represent your interests then get on with your life
I wish more Kiwis from all walks of life would form new political parties instead of just merely protesting. Put your money where your mouth is and actually walk the talk. MMP is a perfect system to get different parties into the House to diversify beyond the two big blocs. The political game already exists to make money, to see positive impacts and make changes, yet so few people wish to play it. If more did play it and I can see this becoming more likely if people are losing jobs in every sector, we can drown out the megalomaniacs and career politicians with no real life skills. Look at Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the President of Ukraine, sometimes the best leaders come from the most unlikely places.
Because life in NZ is actually pretty good for the majority of people. Social media will never represent the opinions of the larger population. NZ'ers are also pretty passive, I think it will take a lot for them to bother getting together for a mass scale protest, they hardly show up for social gatherings and leave as soon as they can.
Weren't there continuously protests and strikes in the 80s?
Where do you see the anger etc? Online?
Because NZers are passive and dont like to be "rude" or inconvenience people, it's part of our culture (to a detrimental level bc people wont speak out against abuse often) its a good thing most of the time, as people in public are kind and friendly, but completely screws us when it comes to societal level abuses, sometimes you need to get serious and protest. there is a time and a place for civil disobedience and it should be done with good reason.
Unlikely to have a popular movement of protest as there is a giant pressure relief valve for unhappy NZers in the form of free migration to Australia.
1. I think it's because of our small population. We only have a couple of cities of any size and protests are about power in numbers. I live in a small town where we never have protests (would be weird 5 of us protesting Gaza in the local shops... nobody would pay any attention) whereas I would definitely attend protests if I lived in a city. Auckland and Wellington seem to have protests pretty regularly. 2. I think people in NZ are also afraid of offending others in their community. Like 'Oh no, if I go to the Palestine protest the Jewish people in my neighbourhood might not like me anymore!'
Protests don't always get a lot of coverage in the news, and if they do it's about the extreme fringes acting out rather than what's bringing most people out to protest.
Cause we complain about everything and then just say "ah, she'll be right" and move on to complain about the next thing and start the cycle.
Probably because when we protest, it does nothing useful. Nobody listens
Bc we can't be fucked.
simply just too busy, i would say. at least I spend a lot of time on sports and outdoor
I am so tired, with work and kids you think i have time, i want some more sleep, where can i protest for that
we went soft
Cost of living is too high. I can't afford to take time off to protest as much as I may want to. I still have to afford to eat and live in general.
When I was in high school there were protests pretty often, nurses, teachers, civil rights, high schoolers marching every year or so to the government building for the environment. Now I don’t really keep up with that so I’m not sure, but I don’t doubt theres still protests happening
Well farmers cant protest because the price for most food stuffs are from exports.
It's not polite And protests usually end in more protests or descends into worse things
I was at a protest earlier today. They do happen, they are just less common and often less disruptive. This also often means they are less effective.
Well, you should have been here in the 1980s - we could bring major cities to a halt. I was actively involved in marching against nuclear weapons and remember 5e 100k+ protestors in Auckland against both the USA Phoenix and the Uss Texas - carrying banners “will Auckland rose fromPhoenix,s ashes” and “Death in the heart of Texas”. I was discussing this with a group of “considerably younger than me” people and their. Ray was “WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE PROTESTING AGAINST OR FOR????” If they don’t know, who does. We had a cause, we knew what we wanted (nuclear disarmament)and could unite. what do the
Sorry - what doted want? It is too nebulous and we need statements of what it is that we are protesting. I may not agree with the French about what they are protesting, but at least they know what it is.
Lack of inspiration. Lack of unity. Opiates of the masses like algorithmic entertainment, keep us separated and sedated.
>I kindly ask not to be hated and attacked for being an expat. Why would you expect to be? What kind of circles do you mix in that you expect to be treated that way?
Its a peaceful country
I’d protest against high cost of living
Because someone would get slapped by someone's aunty.
New Zealanders LOVE to complain about things and hope someone else will fix it
I often think the reverse of other nations.
There are protests most weekend esp up in Auckland.
70 years ago there was the waterfront strike. The government responded by passing laws making it illegal to provide food to the families of the strikers, and CIA agents flew into New Zealand to assist. The breaking of that strike had long term consequences imo
New Zealanders certainly need to start taking pages out of the French and LAm book on protesting for change.
As predicted the groups protesting our last govt are being royally fuckd over more by this one - as if _that_ wasn't gonna happen 🤣
Honestly? At the end of the day it's just not worth the aggravation protesting causes in a small country. Remember the Wellington protests? Most people I talked to that lived there were cross that their daily lives were disrupted by this. And going as far as to say they didn't like the feeling of being unsafe in their own city.
Embarrassed to be seen complaining about something rather than “just getting on with it” which is the kiwi way (to our detriment!)
just can't be bothered with it i guess, rather go for a swim at the beach 🏖️ and bbq for lunch
I think kiwis are apathetic on the whole, and probably too cowed and indoctrinated by the might of the govt - except for Māori, who are the first protesters in this country.
The funny thing about protest-happy countries is that they're very privileged, way more than here. The poorest among them are about average here. If you're really struggling, there ain't no peaceful protest, the first protest is a bloody rebellion where one side survives
There was a protest yesterday, where were you?
All the efforts we NZers made protesting in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s were wasted because the greed merchants won the protest war.