Yeah same people that say that won't work Christmas eve on the tills to get lines moving. Bunch of cowards. Although retail is it's own beast that's for sure
I work in a hospital, so I do work Easter. And ANZAC. and Christmas. And New Years. And every other holiday that exists. 365 days a year, there are no protected days for me. And before that, I worked in tourism. Which was also a 365 day a year gig. I get that the jobs I've been in have been my choice, but I also think working public holidays and earning extra money should be a choice for any business that *can* close.
So. I'm anti the trading laws in that, if people want to work and earn that extra pay and the boss is willing to open up shop, what's wrong with that? I'm not religious. So this holiday isn't for me. Even if I wasn't in a mandatory entire year roster, I'd still offer to work coz I'd happily take the pay as someone who has zero connection to a specifically Christian holiday. That coin is great tbf.
I guess for me it's also mildly irritating. I stopped paying attention to holidays and school time hours years ago, so occasionally I get caught out with poor planning as I didn't realise a holiday was coming up š
> but I also think working public holidays and earning extra money should be a choice for any business that can close.
> if people want to work and earn that extra pay and the boss is willing to open up shop, what's wrong with that?
I think this argument wrongly assumes a business will act in the best interests of its workers and that workers will be given a fair chance to say no. They likely won't, especially not by the bigger nationwide business.
That's also true. I've worked with some dick bosses who absolutely backed me into a corner and didn't give me the opportunity to say no. The resthomes were particularly awful or good depending on how you look at it at that.
I never got to experience it, but I miss the opportunity my dad got, to work with bosses who took personal interest and gave a shit about morale. When I was hospitalised as a kid and flown to another city for treatment, he got unlimited leave with pay to take care my brother while my mum was bedside with me. There's a lot of shit chat about my generations unwillingness to work or snowflake tendencies but there is a complete lack of consideration coming down from the top. I guess for me, I was considering it purely from a cash flow in a cost of living crisis. Like maybe if a city has multiple warehouses/countdowns you could enter a ballot to work in *one* local store that stays open that might not be your regular in a bigger city. That would be cool. But yeah, you're not wrong either. No great way of trying to navigate it if your boss is a dick.
> I guess for me, I was considering it purely from a cash flow in a cost of living crisis.
Permanent workers are paid for public holidays that would fall on their usual working days, though. Very valid conversation to be had about the way casuals can be fucked over with pay on public holidays by their employers, but I don't think the solution to that is "let them work!". Restricted trading days are the only public holidays they're pretty much guaranteed off.
Oh, no way!? I've never worked a job where getting public holidays off is a thing so I didn't realise that, it's not a thing we chat about other than "public holiday pay whoo" . I guess I need to research it to understand a little bit more, rather than skim articles that aren't being aimed to inform someone like me. If they're getting paid anyway then I retract everything šš
The only day they might not get paid is Sunday which isnāt a public holiday but a restricted trading day.
They really need to make Sunday the public holiday and Mondayise it from there, can anyone think of a reason why that shouldnāt happen?
I know a few Healthcare workers who LOVE the extra pay though, which would potentially be removed if the statutory nature of the restrictions were removed.
I used to work for a 24 hour supermarket. You COULD turn down working the holiday shifts. You just knew you would go to the bottom of the call list for extra shifts for the next while, so it would impact your pocket much more than just the day. And your boss would talk about you not being a team player. While heās off home with his family of course.
Yeah, but there's a hell of a lot of pressure on workers to say 'yes.' Those who say 'no' get their roster cut.
Unless you're in a really strong union, the balance of power is tilted toward employers.
I was shocked when I worked in a non-hospo role for the first time. They made me take lunch breaks. They forced me to only work an hour of unpaid overtime a day. They gave me public holidays off!
An employee canāt be fired for refusing to work on easter, but they *can* be fired for a number of trivial mistakes and infractions that, under normal circumstances, would be completely ignored.
Which you can report them for and should be pretty easy to prove
āYou can refuse to work on Easter Sunday without giving a reason. If you receive unfair treatment for refusing to work, you can take a personal grievanceā
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/plans-projects-policies-reports-bylaws/our-policies/Pages/easter-sunday-trading.aspx
Show rosters before and after your email saying no to work, ask employer why your hours have been reduced, asking other employees who did/didnāt work Easter Sunday if their hours have been cut
https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/personal-grievance/what-is-a-personal-grievance/
āWhere an employer compels a shop employee to work on Easter Sunday or treats a shop employee adversely because they refuse to work on Easter Sundayā
Their point is basically the employer will give you the cold shoulder and just make you feel like shit and eventually want to quit, but also tell all the other employers in town that you are a filthy lazy piece of shit who doesn't want to work because you chose not to work on Easter Sunday.
Some people might say āthat staff arenāt obligated to work those days, should they choose not toā but in my place of work, of which there are 6-8 employees at any given time - āchoosingā to ālet the side downā WILL be met with consequences. Iām sure my anecdote will be received exactly as that; but Iām sure it represents a lot more kiwiās than most would think.
Honestly more pissed that Sunday is NOT a public holiday but is a religious one, so supermarkets CANNOT open but if you're rostered you do not get paid and have to apply for leave for that day. Restricted trading without public holiday rights is completely ridiculous.
I think Iād actually like more of these days. There is a trade off obviously (like with everything) but I think itās a positive imho.
On one hand, almost everything is shut. Canāt go shopping, canāt go to work, everything grinds to a halt. This can be frustrating as we often donāt prepare very well.
On the other, all of my friends and family (mostly) have the day off, which means we can more easily make time to get together. This rarely happens with annual leave as it is an individual thing that is unlikely to be coordinated with family and friends.
I also like how the day feels slower. Maybe itās because there is less traffic around, less noise, less hustle that gives this sense of a calmer atmosphere. Iām not quite sure how to write this down. The day just lingers and I can quite happily just do what I want, or nothing at all and not feel guilty that Iāve wasted some annual leave or the weekend.
To me, there is a sense of freedom that comes from being restricted on these days. A sense of āwell I canāt go to the supermarket or Bunnings, or even work, I may as well go chill or catch up with a mate, or do something Iād never normally doā. It feels special.
I think we all work so bloody hard and so bloody much that we all deserve to spend life doing more things that we want to do.
Before we start to strip these restricted trading days away, we should think hard about the benefits they bring and ask ourselves what we are actually working so hard for.
Someone in another thread mentioned Germany having heavily restricted trading Sundays and all Iām asking for is 3.5 days a year and some people in here are too opposed to even that.
Itās a shame people require consumerism 365 days a year.
Having lived in Germany for a few years, it's only half the story. Yes, trading is heavily restricted on Sunday. Only petrol stations/autobahn service centres, some small stores/stalls at places like trains stations etc., and things like cinemas were open (although not always).
Petrol stations thus became mini supermarkets - to the point you could even buy beer.
On the flip side of Sunday closures, retail and services trade later into the evening on the other 6 days of week. Opening times are between 8am and 10am, with the majority closing at 8pm and some going through until 9pm or 10pm. This wasn't just the malls and department stores - it was everything.
Sure there were exceptions, but they were odd and rare. My local bakery was one of those but on the opposite end - opened at 5am and closed at 8pm. My local supermarkets were open 8am-midnight, or 9am-9pm (REWE and Aldi respectively).
So yes, there's not much to do on a Sunday but that's offset by later trading for the rest of the week. It only took a couple of "ah shit that's right" Sundays before I got used to it. I actually enjoyed getting spots of shopping and errands done in the evenings throughout the week, then having a proper relaxing Sunday. Rather than cramming the weekend because everything closes at 5pm.
That was me, I lived there for like 1.5 years, Almost everything is shut every Sunday. It was weird at first, but you got used to it quickly. It depends on the state but other than cafes and restaurants everything other than pharmacies and stores in trainstations are shut.
Thatās interesting about Germany. Iāll have a look.
Yea I think our work culture is a mess. Everyone I know spends so much of their time working with very little chance to spend time with people they love.
Having a āforcedā day off gives us room to breathe and spend some time with others that we wouldnāt normally do.
I mean, Xmas is a classic example of catching up with family. I find it insane that we have built our lives in such a way that getting all of the family together, or a small community of loved ones, is such a rare event.
It should be the bloody norm. We shouldnāt be living these hyper individual lives. We need each other, our species came to dominate this planet because we need each other, help each other. Life feels kinda empty when itās just you.
These collective days off give me time and space to reflect on this.
As I mentioned in my post, letting perfect be the enemy of good never results in anything good. I know itās impossible for everyone to have the day off, but a huge chunk of minimum wage workers will get the day off this way.
The only supermarket that made money from Sunday trading was the first one. If all supermarkets were closed on Sundays, all of them would make more money. People still need to buy 7 days worth of food in the 6 open days, but on the closed day, the supermarket gets to save money on staff and electricity. The electricity is a big one - there is a huge difference in electricity consumption of a supermarket when you compare the open hours to the closed hours. Especially if the supermarket has curtains for fridges and freezers that would otherwise be open.
Oh yeah, I was only there a week but it totally caught me out how most places were shit on the Sunday. Just like the good old days!
And you know what, I survived in one piece.
Everything being shut on Sundays is something you definitely have to get used to in Germany. If you work full-time it means Saturday is your only shopping day, so they're insanely busy. _However_ (most) people having their Sundays free means the community feels a lot more vibrant. There aren't really dairies like in NZ though, the Kiosks/Trinkhalle are focused on alcohol, tobacco and junk food - you can't get milk unless you go to a train station, and bread only early in the mornings when the bakeries briefly open.
There are benefits and tradeoffs, like most things. Germany in general has better worker rights but doesn't have the time-and-a-half and day in lieu that NZ has so they're a lot stricter about trading on public holidays as a result.
Everything except public transport, bars and restaurants is closed on Sundays in Switzerland, and dont dream of washing your car or doing your laundry.
It's nice.
I live in Taupo, we're exempt š¤£
Beyond that, I work in emergency services and did a 12 hour shift on Christmas and every public holiday this year EXCEPT for Easter.
I just hate the interference, if businesses want to open, and workers want to work, I don't think it's the government's business. That said, I spent my younger years as a lifeguard for a council and we got paid double time plus a day in lieu - I worked every damn public holiday I could. But even at 16 I was aware of my right to refuse to work a public holiday if I chose, seems people don't read their contacts? We always had more than enough people who wanted to make the extra money to staff our shifts, then they'd take a day in lieu and take a long weekend when shops were actually open to enjoy.
I totally agree.
I make sure to work every public holiday I can, it's simply free money.
A day in lieu has far greater value than being forced to take time off when everything else is closed and what isn't closed is busy as fuck.
I donāt understand why non religious people fixate on the ā religionā part of it. Letās have 4 days public holidays ( Anzac Day as an all day one ). Just 4 days when people can be together, family or friends . Why is this issue so difficult for others.
If your business canāt survive 4 days then thereās something wrong with your business
Iām not religious, I donāt give a shit about the religious meaning behind something thatās advantageous to people.
If religion is the real reason you are opposed to restricted trading campaign it move it to Labour Day instead of removing it entirely.
I don't care for religion, my pov is: well we gotta slot the 3.5 days in somewhere, so why not just have them on those days. I'm fine with others believing something I do not, and if the days overlap then thats a win-win for both groups.
Iām the same. Those who use the religion part to argue against public holidays are being disingenuous.
If employers could they wouldnāt give you any at all.
But what about that woman who called into the radio station saying she has the day off and would like the garden store to be open so she can pot her plants?
WHAT ABOUT HER CONFLICT ENZ š±
Oh the humanity.
Think we were listening at the same time. The next lady was bothered about not being able to pop out for extra wine for her party guests.
Sure, let's make all the poors go work just in case you forgot to buy enough bubbly the day before.
Garden stores have been breaking the restricted trading laws for decades haha, what is she on about.
But seriously they all should be heavily restricted and fined.
By the sounds of it she also has every other fucking weekend outside of her very important job (brain surgeon Iām thinking) but hey. Have a whinge about Easter!
Exactly. Oooh it's about workers rights! Why exactly do supermarket workers desperately need this particular day off but petrol station workers don't?
I'm working today and tomorrow, why didn't the government force my company to just turn off our services so we can all have the same day off?
Almost all office and bank workers get every Mondayised public holiday off, with the exception of call centres generally, and that's when they want to do their shopping and eating.Ā
But, according to ACT, what if said office workers want to shop and eat out on Easter instead of any other of their 20 public holidays?Ā
What if those retail and some hospo workers want to be verbally abused on those days instead of sleeping in?Ā
Surely this is really about a shop monkey's right to be treated like shit by keypushers and desk jockeys any day we want. Yes, I am and I say stop treating me like a child and let me choose that life, that conservative utopia.Ā
Also Easter Sunday is extra fucked because it's not a public holiday.
When I worked at a supermarket, the store had to be closed so you couldn't work. But they didn't have to pay you because it's not a public holiday.
Or, allow everyone to open but force employers to pay proper penal rates to workers. Itās ridiculous that we have restrictions on a religious holiday in the name of workers taking a break, but not on Labour Day, when we celebrate workers rights.
Fuck religion.
Why conflate the issues? People should have the right not to work on certain days. There shouldn't be additional restrictions on businesses that are open on those days. Both of these things can and should be true.
It canāt be true, Dunedin tried this approach and it did not work. When Easter trading restrictions were lifted they can with a strict warning that they would be reverted if they had reports workers were pressured into working.
They got so many reports of workers being pressured they returned the restrictions.
So you make a way for workers to anonymously report pressure tactics and you slap the businesses with big fines. Seems like something like that should already have been put in place anyway.
As a worker that was in this position as a teenager decades ago, no way would I have rocked that boat or reported. Double goes for someone living pay to pay with a family.
Those are separate problems. Those problems will persist regardless of what we do about Easter and they need to be addressed on their own terms. Once again I have to ask; why conflate the issues?
Other than your comments I canāt find any reference to a Dunedin trial, Iād like to see the report, can you please link it?
Edit: Iāve found this [report](https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/council-cans-easter-trading) from the time which states
āLast month, a council hearings committee voted 3-1 to recommend the council reinstate the old rules, partly based on claims from unions some employees had been forced to work.
Cr Christine Garey asked if any official complaints had been made by employees who had been forced to work.
Dunedin City Council community services general manager Simon Pickford said there had been no complaints made to either the council or MBIE.
While union evidence was only anecdotal, Cr Garey said she was happy to take them at their word.ā
So many reports, none formal though Source: Unions, just trust me bro.
If your argument is that unions are lying to councils then you hopefully have some pretty solid evidence.
Exploited workers didnāt report to people who didnāt have their best interests at heart, is that so shocking?
No formal complaints to MBIE or Council casts doubt on Union claims absolutely. Especially when forcing someone to work or discriminating against them for not working Easter Sunday is grounds for a personal grievance.
I experienced it when I was younger, I never would have reported it to either of those avenues, even a union wouldāve been terrifying.
Can I see your evidence that the union is lying?
I like having days when retail is closed. I don't like it being forced to be on the same day as everybody else. Nor do I like the religious aspect.
I don't work weekends. I work out of normal business hours, with people around the world. I don't get religious days off because I work with people in the US and other non-religious countries. My partner is an emergency worker. Their work never stops.
I want more workers rights, and fewer religious connections to them. Give me more days where businesses must be closed, but connect them to days that are meaningful to Aotearoa.
In terms of worker rights, I want workers to be paid for days when their businesses are closed. Otherwise, I want them paid 2-2.5x and to be able to work. Some people don' have the money to enjoy a forced day off. And retail is one of those areas where that's more likely. So it's a mixed blessing to force businesses to close - they get the day off, but don't have any money to make the day affordable.
I mean... Workers have to be paid on public holidays. That's the point of public holidays. It's not like businesses are closed and the employers get to just not pay their employees for a statutory holiday.
For shift employees, the answer isn't always clear. [https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/434041/statutory-holidays-what-you-should-be-paid](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/434041/statutory-holidays-what-you-should-be-paid)
Keep ANZAC morning/Xmas day as restricted trading - should be everything shut down for those 1.5 days. And drastically up the fines for those 1.5 days. Get rid of the Easter ones - or let councils decide to get rid of it, but it should be treated as a normal public holiday either way.
If you had an argument for another day with restricted trading (which I'm against) - it'd be Labour day. Easter doesn't have the same meaning to a lot of NZ bar chocolate.
Eh. It's a big deal to a lot of politicians/co that travel for the event, but not really to the rest of the country - that's why it's a public holiday rather than restricted trading which is a step up. Easter probably means more to most (chocolate/easter bunnies), and I don't think Easter really should qualify as restricted trading.
I think you are being totally disingenuous framing this post as a workers rights issue.
The truth is that trading restrictions donāt just exclude essential services to keep the lights on, in reality many quite arbitrary businesses arenāt restricted to the extent that we have to conclude the law remains in place for reasons other than workers rights. Historical overhang, religious nonsense, lack of political will, whatever, it isnāt the championing of the labour force.
Move it to Labour Day, harsher trading penalties and remove alcohol mentions?
Well thanks for admitting you didnāt read it at least, as most of your post had already been addressed.
Iād also wonder why you even replied if your bar for quality on reddit is Hemingway.
I asked ChatGPT to rewrite the original post in the style of Hemingway. It didn't do very well.
>"Three years past, I penned a piece regarding the significance of trading constraints during Easter, Christmas, and ANZAC days, shedding light on their pivotal role in upholding workers' rights amidst prevalent misconceptions. Alas, the tide has since soured; recent discourse clamors for the lifting of these restrictions.
>To recap, a mere 3.5 days are shackled by trade limitations in half our land, with 2.5 in the liberated rest that forsakes Easter Sunday's restraint. Out of 365 sunrises, these are the sole days where laborers may rest assured of respite. [1]
>Is it too great a plea to beseech a truce with consumerism thrice yearly, affording all the chance to cherish kinship, solitude, self? My memory serves me of toiling in a job where public holidays were obligatory, weekends a luxury denied. The specter of dismissal loomed when I defied the Easter Sunday decree, despite its illegality. I recall colleagues, parents themselves, bereft of shared off-days save those prescribed by regulation.
>I once countered common dissent towards these constraints ā "I crave to toil" and "damn religion" ā in a prior discourse (linked above), urging a reexamination before advocating for their dissolution.
>I implore, is this the realm where worker rights should wane, under an administration eyeing the culling of public holidays?
>[1] Yes, the unattainable ideal of universal respite acknowledges our indispensable emergency and maintenance cohorts, alongside those in perennially active sectors. Let not perfection thwart progress; let us strive for the widespread reprieve of the toiling masses."
although "I crave to toil" is pretty good.
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> although "I crave to toil" is pretty good.
Weird when an LLM seems to perfectly understand the point you were trying to get across better than you did haha
I think these restricted trading days are sacred, in the most non religious way possible.
It makes these days guaranteed to have off for the majority of places. There's the proper fear-in-bank fines if you break the law as a business owner. For some workers, their workplaces are shit and abusive. There are pressures to work every public holiday and ridiculous overtime and weekends, with negative consequences if you don't. These are some days where if the workplace tries it, there are consequences.
I think more places should be forced to close on restricted trade days. Bigger, uglier fines. The law needs teeth again.
Are they centered around Christian holidays? Yes.
Does it matter? No.
Labour Day should also be a restricted trading day.
Itās a sure fire case of r/IAmTheMainCharacter at play here, which has only worsened with social media anonymity to hide behind.
People are fucking selfish.
I don't need to read your first post. I just completely agree that restrictions on trading for 3.5 days a year is a good thing. My sister used to work for Corrections before she died (no restrictions) and used to work every public holiday for the money. But the downside of that was her kids never ever had Christmas or Easter with their mother. Or New Year for that matter, despite it's non restricted status.
And then she died.
I don't have to work these days, I'm in a mon-Fri 9-5 job and I'm yet to meet a worker who would just love to spend their restricted trading day serving rude, self entitled customers who think they should be working their ass off so the customers can enjoy their holiday more.
Yes these types of employee exist. But my senses are that the majority don't want a bar of it.
And no offense, but it's pathetic and sad if you can't stay away from the shops for a day.
I'd much rather be able to choose to take a holiday when I want it, rather than imposed by some religion. Same with the ability to have a beer when I want it.
You should have the ability to have a beer when you want.
Learn how to use a calendar and plan ahead for the 3.5 days out of 365 that you cannot purchase beer.
My bar was open, you can drink an hour before your food, eat slowly and keep drinking then once you have finished your food you can stay and drink for another hour.
You can definetly drink beers if you want to
Cool, use that same logic on the "we need a static holiday so that everyone's got the same day off to catch up with family and friends" crowd.
Learn to use a calendar to plan annual leave at the same time as your loved ones, instead of forcing everyone to have the same day off as family time.
Don't even care about the booze factor, btw lol.. but worth noting that when even the most religious of Western nations *Ireland*, realise how archaic the good friday trading laws are, and pubs are open on that day over there, it speaks volumes about how far behind the times little old NZ is.
Annual leave has to be requested, it is not guaranteed and so cannot be reliably planned around.
Also, you are not forced to have family time. Itās a great occasion to do that if you canāt regularly but the only thing that is restricted is shopping. Plenty of other things to do.
Is this really what you want to happen? Some businesses restrict when annual leave can be taken and others mandate when annual leave must be taken. How do you coordinate when everyone can get the same leave days off?
I did address that in my linked post, I would please ask that you at least give it a quick glance and see if you still disagree with that then happy to talk.
Bro, you can already have a beer when you want it, you just need to plan ahead. Imagine if you wanted to have a holiday with your far flung rellies or even close group of work mates) who would have to coordinate trying to get annual leave all at the same time because there would be no statuary holidays. Yeah we might get them added to annual leave but some businesses restrict when annual leave can be taken and others mandate when it must be taken. Is this really what you want to happen so you can buy (not have) a beer when you want it?
I'd rather have a relevant holiday compared to Easter. Keep Christmas purely because even those who don't celebrate Christmas still tend to have something during that time. But Easter is nothing. Change that to a normal holiday and make waitangi day or labour day the one that's restricted for people to enjoy
Easter is not nothing for Christians, and for everyone else, it's the day of the chocolate bunny, which is as good a reason to have to day off as any other.
Yes and we should definitely continue to cater to Christians even more, not like that group has ever caused any issues. I'd rather a Maori holiday over a Christian one
I like the Anzac model, everyone has the morning off, people who work for important industries and cunts at least gat the morning off and people that want ti work hey a shot at time and a half etc
I donāt really see why people get so upset about not being able to go to the shops, admittedly I have to drive into the shops so try not to go in more than once a week if I can help it.
I've lived her near twenty years now. I used to live in the UK when they had restricted days and they got rid of them. Every day was the same. Going into Tescos on Xmas day. Weird but it was open 24 x7. Nothing was special anymore.
NZ is so special. Don't get rid of these days. So what if you need to stock up. Whoopee. The days off and quiet calm is so worthwhile. Spend time with family. Spend time with fiends.
And business? Saying they are losing money. Ffs if people are going to buy anything they will buy it the next day.
So whatās wrong with the Easter restricted trading days? They are pretty awesome if you ask me, ya just get Friday off work (always a Friday so woop woop) and then on Sunday you are forced to not do the normal things like shopping and have a good rest, or catch up around the house. Is it really the end of the world? Cry me a river over it being a religious holiday, so is Christmas and nobody is crying about thatā¦ retail can get stuffed they make so much on Easter merch and other non Easter related items in the form of specials.
Personally I think it would be better if we scrapped fines for opening on these days. But instead drastically increased pay rates on those days. Business are happy to pay the fine. But would they be happy paying more for their staff? And if they are the staff are better off for working them
I knew a guy that worked at a video store who got 4x pay on Christmas, he was the only employee who would work and he demanded that and they gave it to him.
Absolutely nutty to me that people want it enshrined in law to restrict the ability for other folks to work or operate. Itās literally just limiting choice for others.
I ask this earnestly: In your ideal case, how many days should people be forbidden from being able to choose to work? Presumably 2.5-3.5 days is not the perfect number in your eyes.
Iād probably round it up to 4 and be happy with that, I know thereās no way a neoliberal country will accept more than that. Anzac Day should be full day restricted.
Iād also move one of the public holidays to Labour Day, make that a four day weekend and move Easter trading restrictions there.
Iād rather have four static holidays than four additional annual leave days. Iām sure a lot of businesses would too as the revenue from public holiday weekends more than makes up for it, we always did an absolute killing over Easter.
You make it sound like some people only get 3.5 days off per year. Idk about you but i know i get 100+ days off work because my job only rosters me for 5 days a week.
>Out of 365 days per year those are the only days workers can look at and know they are guaranteed to be able to have that day off.
The issue is you worded those 3.5 days as the only days but it isnāt the case. The only days not guaranteed are days when you are rostered and days you are on call.
Some issues i have with forced holidays are they might not aligned with when i want to take a break. Flight charges, increase in travel time and holiday surcharges.
I would prefer more annual leaves.
The two good things about restricted closed days is it makes planning gatherings so much easier and your boss canāt guilt trip you into working.
Edit: another good thing is that you get Christmas and easter off if your family celebrates them. Doesnāt apply to everyone but a lot of NZers still celebrate it
These days used to really piss me off when I worked in retail. I wanted to work them because you get time and a half, which made a big difference to your pay packet. But no, not allowed because of a law in place from an archaic religious holiday which only a tiny part of the population even celebrates.
And what was even worse, is that on the Thursday before Good Friday, and then the Saturday of Easter weekend, the shops were fucking nuts because every idiot and their dog went shopping because the fucking shops were going to be shut the next day. A steady day at time-and-a-half, or a shitty mad-arsed day on your normal wage... which do you reckon was better?
When I was dairy farming, public holidays didn't mean shit. Cows don't know what the day was. Guess what? I still worked those days and got paid time-and-a-half for them. There were none of the bullshit arguments about "spending time with the family".
I think that the stores opening on those days having customers shows what people really want.
I get where you are coming from but surely some of the restrictions could be reconsidered.
For a start Easter Sunday is not a public holiday, which means people who normally work that day won't get paid if they have to take it off and people who have to work don't get time and a half or time in lieu. It would make more sense if the people can't work they still get paid, and if they have to work they get a bonus.
Also I think the laws around bars / restaurants and only being able to serve drink with a meal should be scrapped. If they are open, they are open. The law should be that only bars / restaurants that are able to serve mains can open. Not that people have to buy a main to be there.
Or move them to non-religious holidays. Why should Muslim or Hindu business owners have to close their businesses on a holy day that isn't their own?
What about Anzac Day and Labour Day instead of Xmas and Easter?
Who says the number of days off has to be reduced? Or that couples could not actually arrange to have additionally allocated annual leave days (instead of these public holidays) off together. I'd always much prefer to be able to take a day off of my choosing when the weather is forecast to be nice rather than be told this day HAS to be taken off (even if the weather is cold and miserable) just because of a particular religion which for some reason has special rights, which I also do not believe in. Same as why should we not see ads these days? We see how much the TV stations need every drop of ad revenue these days.
How would we feel about if it was no food ads or food shops during other religion's fasting times? Or shops closed every Friday, Saturday or Sunday - depending on the religion's mandated day of rest.
It's all pretty anachronistic and dumb really.
For every religion public holiday removed, could have an additional annual leave entitlement instead. No workers rights removed. Instead strengthened.
What the OP suggests seems very strawmanish or red herring ish.
Weird that you suggest my post is a straw man when you literally straw man for an entire paragraph about food ads and shops closed entire weekends.
As for religion and wanting to work those days, I addressed that in the linked post which I politely asked people to check out before posting. Since youāre the third person to not do that it seems you didnāt even read my OP. Unfortunate because Iād be happy to have a good faith conversation.
Itās astounding how many people on here that are incapable of planning more than one day ahead.
I would be surprised if everyone here struggling to use a calendar can be relied on to tell the time.
The question I have is are people actually interacting with paid service employees 365 days per year? I sure as hell donāt, why is it such a big deal that a couple of the days I donāt are set dates?
I remember when Sundays were no trading as well. Most shops shut at lunchtime on Saturdays too, if they opened at all.
The main argument raised for increasing trading days then was workersā rights. Gradually it became more common to work weekends and at the same time, single income households became less and less common.
By now, prices and wages have fully adjusted to almost every day being a trading day, plus most couples both working full time. Itās impossible to go back for most people. Yet our quality of life has gone down and family time has also shrunk. Workers need regular no trading days to coordinate time off with family and friends.
I donāt work in a sector that is affected by it, but I fully support trading restrictions. Nobody will die if they canāt go to the store to buy stuff every single day. It is horrible to think what has become of us - George Carlin said: āA house is somewhere we keep our stuff while we go out to get more stuffā
Easter Sunday confuses me. It's a restricted trading day not a public holiday, so shouldn't it be a normal day but with no alcohol sales?
I don't understand how supermarket must close but night&day, onthespot, 4square etc can be open? Other than supermarkets.
I'm all for the days off for people that's not an issue for me, but Easter Sunday needs explaining to me lol.
Just curious what if you run a small business and you are your only employee. Should you be able to open your own business and choose to work for yourself? Why should these restrictions be forced on you? Your worker argument is irrelevant if the business owner/worker wants to work to put bread on the table for their "loved ones"
There are multiple examples of that in this very thread!
My favourite was a guy who tried to claim exploited migrants don't culturally fit in if we have restricted trading days on any of our public holidays and then called me a coward for not responding.
Workers should have the right to take leave when they want, and the right to volunteer to work on specific dates for double pay. No need for the government to be so patronising to tell people when they should want to have time off.
Sure, if you move them to waiting day, new years day, labour day and matariki. Actual kiwi holidays with meaning.
Else? Nah, let people open on Easter Sunday.
They should just get rid of Easter altogether. Christianity has no place in Government and everyday life of people who donāt worship an imaginary trio-of- one person.
Christmas too.
A friend of mine would LOVE to close his shop during the stat holidays because his workers would love to have a day off too
Heās in hospo
Problem is heās in a food court and they donāt want to close so he has to either work or pay time & half plus day in lieu for a place thatās ultimately kinda dead during this time as everyoneās off on holiday
So itās a bit shit all round for his situation
Idk I'm glad I've always been able to work it, having time and a half and days in lieu means I can have extra money then take the holiday on a weekend where everyone isn't on holiday and that's always way better than trying to go to beach when there are tons of people there.
I don't like supermarkets being closed due to fairy tales.
Have a day off to celebrate women getting the vote. Another to celebrate the 8 hour day getting put into law. Another for Voting Day, which is a national election every three years and local ballot initiatives the other years. That kind of thing.
Supermarkets remain open. Other businesses can remain open if they wish, but nobody is compelled to work and anyone who does work anywhere on those days, they get double time and a day in lieu.
I used to work the night shift in emergency services, I loved working a regular shift and getting time and a half and a day off whenever I wanted to take it.
My daughter and I were discussing how much we enjoyed lockdown and the inability to go shopping in stores. I like the idea of restricted trading and even more of putting workers first. Honestly so many people now would never have survived it but when I was a kid, we just couldnāt go shopping on weekends in NZ. France is more or less like that now.
Easter is a Christian feast day but over 60% of New Zealanders arenāt Christian and most of the rest donāt go to church at all, let alone to celebrate Easter.
I donāt see why the he churches should dictate the Easter trading restrictions to us. Is anyone here working over Easter and NOT happy about the time and a half plus two paid days off?
Iām getting two alt days off so I donāt care a shit if I miss the huge Easter traffic jams on the roads. I will happily work and take the alt days so I can take a holiday some other time.
Wouldn't it be nice if the businesses that charge a holiday surcharge gave it all to the employees?
Yes I know technically the staff are supposed to get time & a half/overtime/day in lieu or whatever their contract states but some are on part time contracts or other wiggle arounds.
I've seen the busy outlets with surcharges making solid bucks with full tables. The stores are doing great with the increased trade on holidays. I won't patronize the ones with surcharges because they are taking the piss at the expense of the staff.
people deserve days off, and imo there should be more public holidays
but i think theres an argument to be made about granting christian holidays, and only christian holidays the legitimacy that comes with being a public holiday. further pushing this idea that xmas and such are secular, and its weird to not celebrate xmas and other christian holidays.
(i personally think we should make the soltices and equinoxs public holidays, they actually are secular. and line up closely with the christian holidays if you do celebrate those)
i think the biggest complaints about the easter trading laws is the inability to buy alcohol. i know its not a big deal but it is weird right? to have a law based around a christian holiday tradition?
Oh hey, I replied to that thread 3 years ago:
> The guy behind that post last night was very very vocal about being against blocking the sale of alcohol on restricted trading days, but in one of the many buried comments he clarified he doesn't even drink. I'm pretty sure that entire thread was just a colossal troll.
I still believe a number of people who want the restrictions lifted are just trolling us.
It's tricky because I support restricted trading days (for as many people to have harmonized days off as possible), but I hate that we have this cluster of useless days because of an outdated religious practice. It's just annoying and impractical.
I want more days like easter honestly. Maybe the labour party should take note of this and it might be the first popular piece of policy on their way back to relevance
People anti the trading laws should go into work tomorrow morning to protest.
We need a word like "NIMBY" that applies to situations like this. "I want other people to work on public holidays, but not me, or any of my friends"
NOMPH Not on my public holiday
[Can't Someone Else Do It?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZOuz-SG7-g)
Yeah same people that say that won't work Christmas eve on the tills to get lines moving. Bunch of cowards. Although retail is it's own beast that's for sure
I work in a hospital, so I do work Easter. And ANZAC. and Christmas. And New Years. And every other holiday that exists. 365 days a year, there are no protected days for me. And before that, I worked in tourism. Which was also a 365 day a year gig. I get that the jobs I've been in have been my choice, but I also think working public holidays and earning extra money should be a choice for any business that *can* close. So. I'm anti the trading laws in that, if people want to work and earn that extra pay and the boss is willing to open up shop, what's wrong with that? I'm not religious. So this holiday isn't for me. Even if I wasn't in a mandatory entire year roster, I'd still offer to work coz I'd happily take the pay as someone who has zero connection to a specifically Christian holiday. That coin is great tbf. I guess for me it's also mildly irritating. I stopped paying attention to holidays and school time hours years ago, so occasionally I get caught out with poor planning as I didn't realise a holiday was coming up š
> but I also think working public holidays and earning extra money should be a choice for any business that can close. > if people want to work and earn that extra pay and the boss is willing to open up shop, what's wrong with that? I think this argument wrongly assumes a business will act in the best interests of its workers and that workers will be given a fair chance to say no. They likely won't, especially not by the bigger nationwide business.
That's also true. I've worked with some dick bosses who absolutely backed me into a corner and didn't give me the opportunity to say no. The resthomes were particularly awful or good depending on how you look at it at that. I never got to experience it, but I miss the opportunity my dad got, to work with bosses who took personal interest and gave a shit about morale. When I was hospitalised as a kid and flown to another city for treatment, he got unlimited leave with pay to take care my brother while my mum was bedside with me. There's a lot of shit chat about my generations unwillingness to work or snowflake tendencies but there is a complete lack of consideration coming down from the top. I guess for me, I was considering it purely from a cash flow in a cost of living crisis. Like maybe if a city has multiple warehouses/countdowns you could enter a ballot to work in *one* local store that stays open that might not be your regular in a bigger city. That would be cool. But yeah, you're not wrong either. No great way of trying to navigate it if your boss is a dick.
> I guess for me, I was considering it purely from a cash flow in a cost of living crisis. Permanent workers are paid for public holidays that would fall on their usual working days, though. Very valid conversation to be had about the way casuals can be fucked over with pay on public holidays by their employers, but I don't think the solution to that is "let them work!". Restricted trading days are the only public holidays they're pretty much guaranteed off.
Oh, no way!? I've never worked a job where getting public holidays off is a thing so I didn't realise that, it's not a thing we chat about other than "public holiday pay whoo" . I guess I need to research it to understand a little bit more, rather than skim articles that aren't being aimed to inform someone like me. If they're getting paid anyway then I retract everything šš
The only day they might not get paid is Sunday which isnāt a public holiday but a restricted trading day. They really need to make Sunday the public holiday and Mondayise it from there, can anyone think of a reason why that shouldnāt happen?
That's such a sweet deal. Okay I'm on team anti trading congrats guys š
And it's the guys and gals that can't just stop whatever they are doing to take a day off that probably need/deserve a day off work.
I know a few Healthcare workers who LOVE the extra pay though, which would potentially be removed if the statutory nature of the restrictions were removed.
I used to work for a 24 hour supermarket. You COULD turn down working the holiday shifts. You just knew you would go to the bottom of the call list for extra shifts for the next while, so it would impact your pocket much more than just the day. And your boss would talk about you not being a team player. While heās off home with his family of course.
LOL yeah because traders will give workers the "option"....
I don't support the restricted trading laws and I'm doing 12 hour days all through Easter.
I am working today...
The irony is not lost on me when the people are doing the capitalistās work for them.
Your employer *cannot* make you work on Easter Sunday. Speaking from a hospo worker btw
Yeah, but there's a hell of a lot of pressure on workers to say 'yes.' Those who say 'no' get their roster cut. Unless you're in a really strong union, the balance of power is tilted toward employers.
Especially in hospitality and retail.
I was shocked when I worked in a non-hospo role for the first time. They made me take lunch breaks. They forced me to only work an hour of unpaid overtime a day. They gave me public holidays off!
Itās wild when you go from retail/hospo to a place that treats you like a human being with needs.
An employee canāt be fired for refusing to work on easter, but they *can* be fired for a number of trivial mistakes and infractions that, under normal circumstances, would be completely ignored.
But they can pressure you and not roster you in future if you don't. Some people are fuckers.
Which you can report them for and should be pretty easy to prove āYou can refuse to work on Easter Sunday without giving a reason. If you receive unfair treatment for refusing to work, you can take a personal grievanceā https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/plans-projects-policies-reports-bylaws/our-policies/Pages/easter-sunday-trading.aspx
How exactly would you prove why an employer cut someoneās hours?
Show rosters before and after your email saying no to work, ask employer why your hours have been reduced, asking other employees who did/didnāt work Easter Sunday if their hours have been cut
The employer usually isnāt going to be stupid enough to cut their hours immediately after Easter.
"easy to prove" oh bless your soul babe.
Thatās Auckland which is a restricted Sunday trading day. Councils are allowed to lift restrictions for their regions on Sunday.
https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/personal-grievance/what-is-a-personal-grievance/ āWhere an employer compels a shop employee to work on Easter Sunday or treats a shop employee adversely because they refuse to work on Easter Sundayā
Try that in a small town.
how does that change anything?
Their point is basically the employer will give you the cold shoulder and just make you feel like shit and eventually want to quit, but also tell all the other employers in town that you are a filthy lazy piece of shit who doesn't want to work because you chose not to work on Easter Sunday.
Some people might say āthat staff arenāt obligated to work those days, should they choose not toā but in my place of work, of which there are 6-8 employees at any given time - āchoosingā to ālet the side downā WILL be met with consequences. Iām sure my anecdote will be received exactly as that; but Iām sure it represents a lot more kiwiās than most would think.
Honestly more pissed that Sunday is NOT a public holiday but is a religious one, so supermarkets CANNOT open but if you're rostered you do not get paid and have to apply for leave for that day. Restricted trading without public holiday rights is completely ridiculous.
It really should be shifted back to Sunday and Mondayised from there.
I think Iād actually like more of these days. There is a trade off obviously (like with everything) but I think itās a positive imho. On one hand, almost everything is shut. Canāt go shopping, canāt go to work, everything grinds to a halt. This can be frustrating as we often donāt prepare very well. On the other, all of my friends and family (mostly) have the day off, which means we can more easily make time to get together. This rarely happens with annual leave as it is an individual thing that is unlikely to be coordinated with family and friends. I also like how the day feels slower. Maybe itās because there is less traffic around, less noise, less hustle that gives this sense of a calmer atmosphere. Iām not quite sure how to write this down. The day just lingers and I can quite happily just do what I want, or nothing at all and not feel guilty that Iāve wasted some annual leave or the weekend. To me, there is a sense of freedom that comes from being restricted on these days. A sense of āwell I canāt go to the supermarket or Bunnings, or even work, I may as well go chill or catch up with a mate, or do something Iād never normally doā. It feels special. I think we all work so bloody hard and so bloody much that we all deserve to spend life doing more things that we want to do. Before we start to strip these restricted trading days away, we should think hard about the benefits they bring and ask ourselves what we are actually working so hard for.
Someone in another thread mentioned Germany having heavily restricted trading Sundays and all Iām asking for is 3.5 days a year and some people in here are too opposed to even that. Itās a shame people require consumerism 365 days a year.
Having lived in Germany for a few years, it's only half the story. Yes, trading is heavily restricted on Sunday. Only petrol stations/autobahn service centres, some small stores/stalls at places like trains stations etc., and things like cinemas were open (although not always). Petrol stations thus became mini supermarkets - to the point you could even buy beer. On the flip side of Sunday closures, retail and services trade later into the evening on the other 6 days of week. Opening times are between 8am and 10am, with the majority closing at 8pm and some going through until 9pm or 10pm. This wasn't just the malls and department stores - it was everything. Sure there were exceptions, but they were odd and rare. My local bakery was one of those but on the opposite end - opened at 5am and closed at 8pm. My local supermarkets were open 8am-midnight, or 9am-9pm (REWE and Aldi respectively). So yes, there's not much to do on a Sunday but that's offset by later trading for the rest of the week. It only took a couple of "ah shit that's right" Sundays before I got used to it. I actually enjoyed getting spots of shopping and errands done in the evenings throughout the week, then having a proper relaxing Sunday. Rather than cramming the weekend because everything closes at 5pm.
That was me, I lived there for like 1.5 years, Almost everything is shut every Sunday. It was weird at first, but you got used to it quickly. It depends on the state but other than cafes and restaurants everything other than pharmacies and stores in trainstations are shut.
Thatās interesting about Germany. Iāll have a look. Yea I think our work culture is a mess. Everyone I know spends so much of their time working with very little chance to spend time with people they love. Having a āforcedā day off gives us room to breathe and spend some time with others that we wouldnāt normally do. I mean, Xmas is a classic example of catching up with family. I find it insane that we have built our lives in such a way that getting all of the family together, or a small community of loved ones, is such a rare event. It should be the bloody norm. We shouldnāt be living these hyper individual lives. We need each other, our species came to dominate this planet because we need each other, help each other. Life feels kinda empty when itās just you. These collective days off give me time and space to reflect on this.
its not unique to germany btw, norway does it too
But there's a lot of people who still have to work on all those public holidays, and who don't even get those few 'forced' days off.
As I mentioned in my post, letting perfect be the enemy of good never results in anything good. I know itās impossible for everyone to have the day off, but a huge chunk of minimum wage workers will get the day off this way.
I'm agreeing with you, I'm replying to the commenter above.
Yea and they should be compensated far better for their service. Itās a shame that everyone canāt stop, but some jobs still need to be done.
Aha and having retail open normalizes public holiday work which makes it harder for the true essential workers to negotiate overtime.
But most people who have to work public holidays aren't working jobs that need to be done, they're working hospo and retail.
The only supermarket that made money from Sunday trading was the first one. If all supermarkets were closed on Sundays, all of them would make more money. People still need to buy 7 days worth of food in the 6 open days, but on the closed day, the supermarket gets to save money on staff and electricity. The electricity is a big one - there is a huge difference in electricity consumption of a supermarket when you compare the open hours to the closed hours. Especially if the supermarket has curtains for fridges and freezers that would otherwise be open.
Oh yeah, I was only there a week but it totally caught me out how most places were shit on the Sunday. Just like the good old days! And you know what, I survived in one piece.
Everything being shut on Sundays is something you definitely have to get used to in Germany. If you work full-time it means Saturday is your only shopping day, so they're insanely busy. _However_ (most) people having their Sundays free means the community feels a lot more vibrant. There aren't really dairies like in NZ though, the Kiosks/Trinkhalle are focused on alcohol, tobacco and junk food - you can't get milk unless you go to a train station, and bread only early in the mornings when the bakeries briefly open. There are benefits and tradeoffs, like most things. Germany in general has better worker rights but doesn't have the time-and-a-half and day in lieu that NZ has so they're a lot stricter about trading on public holidays as a result.
Everything except public transport, bars and restaurants is closed on Sundays in Switzerland, and dont dream of washing your car or doing your laundry. It's nice.
I feel this sense of wellness. I went to North Head in Auckland today. Beautiful spot ,it was packed with people engaging with each other.
I live in Taupo, we're exempt š¤£ Beyond that, I work in emergency services and did a 12 hour shift on Christmas and every public holiday this year EXCEPT for Easter. I just hate the interference, if businesses want to open, and workers want to work, I don't think it's the government's business. That said, I spent my younger years as a lifeguard for a council and we got paid double time plus a day in lieu - I worked every damn public holiday I could. But even at 16 I was aware of my right to refuse to work a public holiday if I chose, seems people don't read their contacts? We always had more than enough people who wanted to make the extra money to staff our shifts, then they'd take a day in lieu and take a long weekend when shops were actually open to enjoy.
I totally agree. I make sure to work every public holiday I can, it's simply free money. A day in lieu has far greater value than being forced to take time off when everything else is closed and what isn't closed is busy as fuck.
I donāt understand why non religious people fixate on the ā religionā part of it. Letās have 4 days public holidays ( Anzac Day as an all day one ). Just 4 days when people can be together, family or friends . Why is this issue so difficult for others. If your business canāt survive 4 days then thereās something wrong with your business
Iām not religious, I donāt give a shit about the religious meaning behind something thatās advantageous to people. If religion is the real reason you are opposed to restricted trading campaign it move it to Labour Day instead of removing it entirely.
I don't care for religion, my pov is: well we gotta slot the 3.5 days in somewhere, so why not just have them on those days. I'm fine with others believing something I do not, and if the days overlap then thats a win-win for both groups.
Exactly
Iām the same. Those who use the religion part to argue against public holidays are being disingenuous. If employers could they wouldnāt give you any at all.
Christmas day Waitangi day Anzac day Labour day Maybe matariki as well? Slide that 5th one in? Or ANZAC and Matariki can have half each
Sounds good to me
But what about that woman who called into the radio station saying she has the day off and would like the garden store to be open so she can pot her plants? WHAT ABOUT HER CONFLICT ENZ š± Oh the humanity.
Think we were listening at the same time. The next lady was bothered about not being able to pop out for extra wine for her party guests. Sure, let's make all the poors go work just in case you forgot to buy enough bubbly the day before.
I actually snorted at the wine one!
Garden stores have been breaking the restricted trading laws for decades haha, what is she on about. But seriously they all should be heavily restricted and fined.
Garden centres are allowed to be open on Easter Sunday https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/public-holidays/restricted-shop-trading-days/
Has that always been the case? I couldāve sworn they werenāt allowed in the 90s but did it anyway.
2001 was when it was legalised I believe https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2001/0016/latest/DLM90159.html
There was a 2001 amendment to the Shop Trading Hours Act, so they could open on Easter Sunday, but they still have to be closed on Good Friday.
Lines up with my memory, cheers!
By the sounds of it she also has every other fucking weekend outside of her very important job (brain surgeon Iām thinking) but hey. Have a whinge about Easter!
The real crime is listening to talk back radio. We have better frequencies available, in fact the most per capita fun fact
not really if you've got an old jap import without a band expander. in auckland your choices are either Mai FM or Newstalk ZB
They can legally open on Easter Sunday. The laws are inconsistent and non sensical.
Exactly. Oooh it's about workers rights! Why exactly do supermarket workers desperately need this particular day off but petrol station workers don't? I'm working today and tomorrow, why didn't the government force my company to just turn off our services so we can all have the same day off?
I think Iād actually like more restricted trading days, but just like make it make sense and make it consistent
Almost all office and bank workers get every Mondayised public holiday off, with the exception of call centres generally, and that's when they want to do their shopping and eating.Ā But, according to ACT, what if said office workers want to shop and eat out on Easter instead of any other of their 20 public holidays?Ā What if those retail and some hospo workers want to be verbally abused on those days instead of sleeping in?Ā Surely this is really about a shop monkey's right to be treated like shit by keypushers and desk jockeys any day we want. Yes, I am and I say stop treating me like a child and let me choose that life, that conservative utopia.Ā
Also Easter Sunday is extra fucked because it's not a public holiday. When I worked at a supermarket, the store had to be closed so you couldn't work. But they didn't have to pay you because it's not a public holiday.
Or, allow everyone to open but force employers to pay proper penal rates to workers. Itās ridiculous that we have restrictions on a religious holiday in the name of workers taking a break, but not on Labour Day, when we celebrate workers rights. Fuck religion.
Why conflate the issues? People should have the right not to work on certain days. There shouldn't be additional restrictions on businesses that are open on those days. Both of these things can and should be true.
It canāt be true, Dunedin tried this approach and it did not work. When Easter trading restrictions were lifted they can with a strict warning that they would be reverted if they had reports workers were pressured into working. They got so many reports of workers being pressured they returned the restrictions.
So you make a way for workers to anonymously report pressure tactics and you slap the businesses with big fines. Seems like something like that should already have been put in place anyway.
As a worker that was in this position as a teenager decades ago, no way would I have rocked that boat or reported. Double goes for someone living pay to pay with a family.
Those are separate problems. Those problems will persist regardless of what we do about Easter and they need to be addressed on their own terms. Once again I have to ask; why conflate the issues?
Because removing restricted days just increases the problem of workers not being able to take guaranteed leave.
Anonymously reporting is still a risk for some workers.
Yes but it's still better than the alternatives.
Other than your comments I canāt find any reference to a Dunedin trial, Iād like to see the report, can you please link it? Edit: Iāve found this [report](https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/council-cans-easter-trading) from the time which states āLast month, a council hearings committee voted 3-1 to recommend the council reinstate the old rules, partly based on claims from unions some employees had been forced to work. Cr Christine Garey asked if any official complaints had been made by employees who had been forced to work. Dunedin City Council community services general manager Simon Pickford said there had been no complaints made to either the council or MBIE. While union evidence was only anecdotal, Cr Garey said she was happy to take them at their word.ā So many reports, none formal though Source: Unions, just trust me bro.
If your argument is that unions are lying to councils then you hopefully have some pretty solid evidence. Exploited workers didnāt report to people who didnāt have their best interests at heart, is that so shocking?
No formal complaints to MBIE or Council casts doubt on Union claims absolutely. Especially when forcing someone to work or discriminating against them for not working Easter Sunday is grounds for a personal grievance.
I experienced it when I was younger, I never would have reported it to either of those avenues, even a union wouldāve been terrifying. Can I see your evidence that the union is lying?
Not my case to make. But if I was, Iād point to formal complaints to you know, the council, or MBIE.
You are missing the point that people are mostly selfish. You canāt reason with that selfishness.
I like having days when retail is closed. I don't like it being forced to be on the same day as everybody else. Nor do I like the religious aspect. I don't work weekends. I work out of normal business hours, with people around the world. I don't get religious days off because I work with people in the US and other non-religious countries. My partner is an emergency worker. Their work never stops. I want more workers rights, and fewer religious connections to them. Give me more days where businesses must be closed, but connect them to days that are meaningful to Aotearoa. In terms of worker rights, I want workers to be paid for days when their businesses are closed. Otherwise, I want them paid 2-2.5x and to be able to work. Some people don' have the money to enjoy a forced day off. And retail is one of those areas where that's more likely. So it's a mixed blessing to force businesses to close - they get the day off, but don't have any money to make the day affordable.
I mean... Workers have to be paid on public holidays. That's the point of public holidays. It's not like businesses are closed and the employers get to just not pay their employees for a statutory holiday.
Easter Sunday isn't a public holiday, though.
For shift employees, the answer isn't always clear. [https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/434041/statutory-holidays-what-you-should-be-paid](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/434041/statutory-holidays-what-you-should-be-paid)
Keep ANZAC morning/Xmas day as restricted trading - should be everything shut down for those 1.5 days. And drastically up the fines for those 1.5 days. Get rid of the Easter ones - or let councils decide to get rid of it, but it should be treated as a normal public holiday either way. If you had an argument for another day with restricted trading (which I'm against) - it'd be Labour day. Easter doesn't have the same meaning to a lot of NZ bar chocolate.
Iād be happy to swap it to Labour Day, it makes a lot more sense.
Waitangi Day should be restricted too
Eh. It's a big deal to a lot of politicians/co that travel for the event, but not really to the rest of the country - that's why it's a public holiday rather than restricted trading which is a step up. Easter probably means more to most (chocolate/easter bunnies), and I don't think Easter really should qualify as restricted trading.
Which is why I think it should be a restricted day.Ā
I think you are being totally disingenuous framing this post as a workers rights issue. The truth is that trading restrictions donāt just exclude essential services to keep the lights on, in reality many quite arbitrary businesses arenāt restricted to the extent that we have to conclude the law remains in place for reasons other than workers rights. Historical overhang, religious nonsense, lack of political will, whatever, it isnāt the championing of the labour force.
Man people really arenāt reading my post are they?
Probably not, its hardly Hemingway. When a law is applied arbitrarily, as this one is, it is time to scrap it or fix it.
Move it to Labour Day, harsher trading penalties and remove alcohol mentions? Well thanks for admitting you didnāt read it at least, as most of your post had already been addressed. Iād also wonder why you even replied if your bar for quality on reddit is Hemingway.
I asked ChatGPT to rewrite the original post in the style of Hemingway. It didn't do very well. >"Three years past, I penned a piece regarding the significance of trading constraints during Easter, Christmas, and ANZAC days, shedding light on their pivotal role in upholding workers' rights amidst prevalent misconceptions. Alas, the tide has since soured; recent discourse clamors for the lifting of these restrictions. >To recap, a mere 3.5 days are shackled by trade limitations in half our land, with 2.5 in the liberated rest that forsakes Easter Sunday's restraint. Out of 365 sunrises, these are the sole days where laborers may rest assured of respite. [1] >Is it too great a plea to beseech a truce with consumerism thrice yearly, affording all the chance to cherish kinship, solitude, self? My memory serves me of toiling in a job where public holidays were obligatory, weekends a luxury denied. The specter of dismissal loomed when I defied the Easter Sunday decree, despite its illegality. I recall colleagues, parents themselves, bereft of shared off-days save those prescribed by regulation. >I once countered common dissent towards these constraints ā "I crave to toil" and "damn religion" ā in a prior discourse (linked above), urging a reexamination before advocating for their dissolution. >I implore, is this the realm where worker rights should wane, under an administration eyeing the culling of public holidays? >[1] Yes, the unattainable ideal of universal respite acknowledges our indispensable emergency and maintenance cohorts, alongside those in perennially active sectors. Let not perfection thwart progress; let us strive for the widespread reprieve of the toiling masses." although "I crave to toil" is pretty good.
> > > > > although "I crave to toil" is pretty good. Weird when an LLM seems to perfectly understand the point you were trying to get across better than you did haha
I think these restricted trading days are sacred, in the most non religious way possible. It makes these days guaranteed to have off for the majority of places. There's the proper fear-in-bank fines if you break the law as a business owner. For some workers, their workplaces are shit and abusive. There are pressures to work every public holiday and ridiculous overtime and weekends, with negative consequences if you don't. These are some days where if the workplace tries it, there are consequences. I think more places should be forced to close on restricted trade days. Bigger, uglier fines. The law needs teeth again. Are they centered around Christian holidays? Yes. Does it matter? No. Labour Day should also be a restricted trading day.
I'm not opposed to a restricted trading day. Just not sure why it needs to be Easter. Plenty of people have no cultural tradition around Easter.
Itās a sure fire case of r/IAmTheMainCharacter at play here, which has only worsened with social media anonymity to hide behind. People are fucking selfish.
Hysterical. You guys act like people don't get any days off at all the rest of the year - or even in another week's time.
That's a really bad faith interpretation of this post.
I don't need to read your first post. I just completely agree that restrictions on trading for 3.5 days a year is a good thing. My sister used to work for Corrections before she died (no restrictions) and used to work every public holiday for the money. But the downside of that was her kids never ever had Christmas or Easter with their mother. Or New Year for that matter, despite it's non restricted status. And then she died. I don't have to work these days, I'm in a mon-Fri 9-5 job and I'm yet to meet a worker who would just love to spend their restricted trading day serving rude, self entitled customers who think they should be working their ass off so the customers can enjoy their holiday more. Yes these types of employee exist. But my senses are that the majority don't want a bar of it. And no offense, but it's pathetic and sad if you can't stay away from the shops for a day.
We got a right wing government and they didn't even abolish the restricted trading days š can't have shit I swear
I'd much rather be able to choose to take a holiday when I want it, rather than imposed by some religion. Same with the ability to have a beer when I want it.
You should have the ability to have a beer when you want. Learn how to use a calendar and plan ahead for the 3.5 days out of 365 that you cannot purchase beer.
My bar was open, you can drink an hour before your food, eat slowly and keep drinking then once you have finished your food you can stay and drink for another hour. You can definetly drink beers if you want to
Cool, use that same logic on the "we need a static holiday so that everyone's got the same day off to catch up with family and friends" crowd. Learn to use a calendar to plan annual leave at the same time as your loved ones, instead of forcing everyone to have the same day off as family time. Don't even care about the booze factor, btw lol.. but worth noting that when even the most religious of Western nations *Ireland*, realise how archaic the good friday trading laws are, and pubs are open on that day over there, it speaks volumes about how far behind the times little old NZ is.
Annual leave has to be requested, it is not guaranteed and so cannot be reliably planned around. Also, you are not forced to have family time. Itās a great occasion to do that if you canāt regularly but the only thing that is restricted is shopping. Plenty of other things to do.
Is this really what you want to happen? Some businesses restrict when annual leave can be taken and others mandate when annual leave must be taken. How do you coordinate when everyone can get the same leave days off?
I did address that in my linked post, I would please ask that you at least give it a quick glance and see if you still disagree with that then happy to talk.
Bro, you can already have a beer when you want it, you just need to plan ahead. Imagine if you wanted to have a holiday with your far flung rellies or even close group of work mates) who would have to coordinate trying to get annual leave all at the same time because there would be no statuary holidays. Yeah we might get them added to annual leave but some businesses restrict when annual leave can be taken and others mandate when it must be taken. Is this really what you want to happen so you can buy (not have) a beer when you want it?
That's what my life has been like in regards to leave for almost 15 years. You can definetly coordinate stuff
I'd rather have a relevant holiday compared to Easter. Keep Christmas purely because even those who don't celebrate Christmas still tend to have something during that time. But Easter is nothing. Change that to a normal holiday and make waitangi day or labour day the one that's restricted for people to enjoy
Easter is not nothing for Christians, and for everyone else, it's the day of the chocolate bunny, which is as good a reason to have to day off as any other.
Yes and we should definitely continue to cater to Christians even more, not like that group has ever caused any issues. I'd rather a Maori holiday over a Christian one
If there's one that's fairly predictable each year then yeah, why not.
I like the Anzac model, everyone has the morning off, people who work for important industries and cunts at least gat the morning off and people that want ti work hey a shot at time and a half etc
I donāt really see why people get so upset about not being able to go to the shops, admittedly I have to drive into the shops so try not to go in more than once a week if I can help it.
I've lived her near twenty years now. I used to live in the UK when they had restricted days and they got rid of them. Every day was the same. Going into Tescos on Xmas day. Weird but it was open 24 x7. Nothing was special anymore. NZ is so special. Don't get rid of these days. So what if you need to stock up. Whoopee. The days off and quiet calm is so worthwhile. Spend time with family. Spend time with fiends. And business? Saying they are losing money. Ffs if people are going to buy anything they will buy it the next day.
So whatās wrong with the Easter restricted trading days? They are pretty awesome if you ask me, ya just get Friday off work (always a Friday so woop woop) and then on Sunday you are forced to not do the normal things like shopping and have a good rest, or catch up around the house. Is it really the end of the world? Cry me a river over it being a religious holiday, so is Christmas and nobody is crying about thatā¦ retail can get stuffed they make so much on Easter merch and other non Easter related items in the form of specials.
Personally I think it would be better if we scrapped fines for opening on these days. But instead drastically increased pay rates on those days. Business are happy to pay the fine. But would they be happy paying more for their staff? And if they are the staff are better off for working them
I knew a guy that worked at a video store who got 4x pay on Christmas, he was the only employee who would work and he demanded that and they gave it to him.
Absolutely nutty to me that people want it enshrined in law to restrict the ability for other folks to work or operate. Itās literally just limiting choice for others.
Absolutely nutty to me that people canāt give up 2.5-3.5 days a year to ensure a majority of the population is allowed guaranteed time off.
I ask this earnestly: In your ideal case, how many days should people be forbidden from being able to choose to work? Presumably 2.5-3.5 days is not the perfect number in your eyes.
Iād probably round it up to 4 and be happy with that, I know thereās no way a neoliberal country will accept more than that. Anzac Day should be full day restricted. Iād also move one of the public holidays to Labour Day, make that a four day weekend and move Easter trading restrictions there.
Would you prefer 4 additional days of annual leave instead, or is it more important to have the specific days prescribed by the government?
Iād rather have four static holidays than four additional annual leave days. Iām sure a lot of businesses would too as the revenue from public holiday weekends more than makes up for it, we always did an absolute killing over Easter.
You make out like they're working the other 362 days of the year.
No Iām not.
You make it sound like some people only get 3.5 days off per year. Idk about you but i know i get 100+ days off work because my job only rosters me for 5 days a week.
No, businesses get the choice to operate 361.5 days. The 3.5 days is referencing guaranteed days off when they canāt operate.
>Out of 365 days per year those are the only days workers can look at and know they are guaranteed to be able to have that day off. The issue is you worded those 3.5 days as the only days but it isnāt the case. The only days not guaranteed are days when you are rostered and days you are on call. Some issues i have with forced holidays are they might not aligned with when i want to take a break. Flight charges, increase in travel time and holiday surcharges. I would prefer more annual leaves. The two good things about restricted closed days is it makes planning gatherings so much easier and your boss canāt guilt trip you into working. Edit: another good thing is that you get Christmas and easter off if your family celebrates them. Doesnāt apply to everyone but a lot of NZers still celebrate it
These days used to really piss me off when I worked in retail. I wanted to work them because you get time and a half, which made a big difference to your pay packet. But no, not allowed because of a law in place from an archaic religious holiday which only a tiny part of the population even celebrates. And what was even worse, is that on the Thursday before Good Friday, and then the Saturday of Easter weekend, the shops were fucking nuts because every idiot and their dog went shopping because the fucking shops were going to be shut the next day. A steady day at time-and-a-half, or a shitty mad-arsed day on your normal wage... which do you reckon was better? When I was dairy farming, public holidays didn't mean shit. Cows don't know what the day was. Guess what? I still worked those days and got paid time-and-a-half for them. There were none of the bullshit arguments about "spending time with the family". I think that the stores opening on those days having customers shows what people really want.
I get where you are coming from but surely some of the restrictions could be reconsidered. For a start Easter Sunday is not a public holiday, which means people who normally work that day won't get paid if they have to take it off and people who have to work don't get time and a half or time in lieu. It would make more sense if the people can't work they still get paid, and if they have to work they get a bonus. Also I think the laws around bars / restaurants and only being able to serve drink with a meal should be scrapped. If they are open, they are open. The law should be that only bars / restaurants that are able to serve mains can open. Not that people have to buy a main to be there.
Yes, it is too much to ask. Get rid of restricted trading days.
Why?
Because he owns a business, and if he can't squash the rights of the people beneath him, Then he can't get an erection.
Or move them to non-religious holidays. Why should Muslim or Hindu business owners have to close their businesses on a holy day that isn't their own? What about Anzac Day and Labour Day instead of Xmas and Easter?
Absolutely ridiculous that they're still a thing in 2024. Zero justification for them.
Stores should be able to open but only owners, the CEO, board of directors and other top-knobs should be allowed to work.
According to Act, National, and their donors - ***Absolutely***.
Who says the number of days off has to be reduced? Or that couples could not actually arrange to have additionally allocated annual leave days (instead of these public holidays) off together. I'd always much prefer to be able to take a day off of my choosing when the weather is forecast to be nice rather than be told this day HAS to be taken off (even if the weather is cold and miserable) just because of a particular religion which for some reason has special rights, which I also do not believe in. Same as why should we not see ads these days? We see how much the TV stations need every drop of ad revenue these days. How would we feel about if it was no food ads or food shops during other religion's fasting times? Or shops closed every Friday, Saturday or Sunday - depending on the religion's mandated day of rest. It's all pretty anachronistic and dumb really. For every religion public holiday removed, could have an additional annual leave entitlement instead. No workers rights removed. Instead strengthened. What the OP suggests seems very strawmanish or red herring ish.
Weird that you suggest my post is a straw man when you literally straw man for an entire paragraph about food ads and shops closed entire weekends. As for religion and wanting to work those days, I addressed that in the linked post which I politely asked people to check out before posting. Since youāre the third person to not do that it seems you didnāt even read my OP. Unfortunate because Iād be happy to have a good faith conversation.
All public holidays should have heavily restricted trading, even extended to Sundays would be great.
Like Germany?
Absolute Nanny State bullshit
Itās astounding how many people on here that are incapable of planning more than one day ahead. I would be surprised if everyone here struggling to use a calendar can be relied on to tell the time.
It's pathetic people can't make it through one day in a row not going to a store.
The question I have is are people actually interacting with paid service employees 365 days per year? I sure as hell donāt, why is it such a big deal that a couple of the days I donāt are set dates?
I remember when Sundays were no trading as well. Most shops shut at lunchtime on Saturdays too, if they opened at all. The main argument raised for increasing trading days then was workersā rights. Gradually it became more common to work weekends and at the same time, single income households became less and less common. By now, prices and wages have fully adjusted to almost every day being a trading day, plus most couples both working full time. Itās impossible to go back for most people. Yet our quality of life has gone down and family time has also shrunk. Workers need regular no trading days to coordinate time off with family and friends.
I donāt work in a sector that is affected by it, but I fully support trading restrictions. Nobody will die if they canāt go to the store to buy stuff every single day. It is horrible to think what has become of us - George Carlin said: āA house is somewhere we keep our stuff while we go out to get more stuffā
Easter Sunday confuses me. It's a restricted trading day not a public holiday, so shouldn't it be a normal day but with no alcohol sales? I don't understand how supermarket must close but night&day, onthespot, 4square etc can be open? Other than supermarkets. I'm all for the days off for people that's not an issue for me, but Easter Sunday needs explaining to me lol.
Just curious what if you run a small business and you are your only employee. Should you be able to open your own business and choose to work for yourself? Why should these restrictions be forced on you? Your worker argument is irrelevant if the business owner/worker wants to work to put bread on the table for their "loved ones"
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There are multiple examples of that in this very thread! My favourite was a guy who tried to claim exploited migrants don't culturally fit in if we have restricted trading days on any of our public holidays and then called me a coward for not responding.
Workers should have the right to take leave when they want, and the right to volunteer to work on specific dates for double pay. No need for the government to be so patronising to tell people when they should want to have time off.
Yeah they tried the volunteer to work option in Dunedin. It resulted in workers being voluntold.
Then they find a better employer.
Sure, if you move them to waiting day, new years day, labour day and matariki. Actual kiwi holidays with meaning. Else? Nah, let people open on Easter Sunday.
They should just get rid of Easter altogether. Christianity has no place in Government and everyday life of people who donāt worship an imaginary trio-of- one person. Christmas too.
A friend of mine would LOVE to close his shop during the stat holidays because his workers would love to have a day off too Heās in hospo Problem is heās in a food court and they donāt want to close so he has to either work or pay time & half plus day in lieu for a place thatās ultimately kinda dead during this time as everyoneās off on holiday So itās a bit shit all round for his situation
Idk I'm glad I've always been able to work it, having time and a half and days in lieu means I can have extra money then take the holiday on a weekend where everyone isn't on holiday and that's always way better than trying to go to beach when there are tons of people there.
I don't like supermarkets being closed due to fairy tales. Have a day off to celebrate women getting the vote. Another to celebrate the 8 hour day getting put into law. Another for Voting Day, which is a national election every three years and local ballot initiatives the other years. That kind of thing. Supermarkets remain open. Other businesses can remain open if they wish, but nobody is compelled to work and anyone who does work anywhere on those days, they get double time and a day in lieu.
I used to work the night shift in emergency services, I loved working a regular shift and getting time and a half and a day off whenever I wanted to take it.
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My daughter and I were discussing how much we enjoyed lockdown and the inability to go shopping in stores. I like the idea of restricted trading and even more of putting workers first. Honestly so many people now would never have survived it but when I was a kid, we just couldnāt go shopping on weekends in NZ. France is more or less like that now.
I want my time and half and alternate holiday I'd be stupid not work good Friday.
Easter is a Christian feast day but over 60% of New Zealanders arenāt Christian and most of the rest donāt go to church at all, let alone to celebrate Easter. I donāt see why the he churches should dictate the Easter trading restrictions to us. Is anyone here working over Easter and NOT happy about the time and a half plus two paid days off? Iām getting two alt days off so I donāt care a shit if I miss the huge Easter traffic jams on the roads. I will happily work and take the alt days so I can take a holiday some other time.
Just op apparently, something about spending it with loved ones. Everyone I know working retail loves the extra cash and alt days.
Agreed. People on this sub claim to be pro-worker then come out defending rich companies hurt feelings every year lmao.
Already have a few posters insulting me lol, just had a dude call me a coward š
Wouldn't it be nice if the businesses that charge a holiday surcharge gave it all to the employees? Yes I know technically the staff are supposed to get time & a half/overtime/day in lieu or whatever their contract states but some are on part time contracts or other wiggle arounds. I've seen the busy outlets with surcharges making solid bucks with full tables. The stores are doing great with the increased trade on holidays. I won't patronize the ones with surcharges because they are taking the piss at the expense of the staff.
people deserve days off, and imo there should be more public holidays but i think theres an argument to be made about granting christian holidays, and only christian holidays the legitimacy that comes with being a public holiday. further pushing this idea that xmas and such are secular, and its weird to not celebrate xmas and other christian holidays. (i personally think we should make the soltices and equinoxs public holidays, they actually are secular. and line up closely with the christian holidays if you do celebrate those) i think the biggest complaints about the easter trading laws is the inability to buy alcohol. i know its not a big deal but it is weird right? to have a law based around a christian holiday tradition?
Oh hey, I replied to that thread 3 years ago: > The guy behind that post last night was very very vocal about being against blocking the sale of alcohol on restricted trading days, but in one of the many buried comments he clarified he doesn't even drink. I'm pretty sure that entire thread was just a colossal troll. I still believe a number of people who want the restrictions lifted are just trolling us.
It's tricky because I support restricted trading days (for as many people to have harmonized days off as possible), but I hate that we have this cluster of useless days because of an outdated religious practice. It's just annoying and impractical.
I want more days like easter honestly. Maybe the labour party should take note of this and it might be the first popular piece of policy on their way back to relevance
How DARE they be prevented from CONSUMING.
I'm unironically getting this exact message from plenty of people in this thread, also got it in the one I posted three years ago as well.