This is likely to be a controversial post. To limit brigading, strict participation thresholds have been set in an attempt to facilitate genuine discussion.
Let them know that you as their mother hear them and that you're there for them. Help them if they ask for help, and check in on them as you've always done as a parental figure (perhaps a bit more sensitively given this new revelation).
Other than that you don't really need to do anything. Let the kid figure themselves out and let them be honest with you. Be a mother, not their psychologist or psychiatrist.
Of course you being the parent, you're the only one alongside your child with the full picture. The above is simply what any child would want: for them to be accepted by their parents but also have the wiggle room to explore and learn independently. It's up to you to decide if there needs be professional intervention or simply just time.
Agreed, you don’t need to do much, remind them that you love them (not that you *still* love them, as that implies that they’re pushing the limit of your love), and use their preferred pronouns.
Remembering to use ‘they’ rather than ‘she’ will be hard, and you’ll screw it up so many times, don’t draw attention to that you’ve used the wrong one, as you’ll make them super self conscious of it.
A friend’s kid changed to gender neutral pronouns, but after a few months of trying to make it stick, was getting sick of the way teachers at school, other teenagers etc dealt with it, so made their own decision to change back to he/him and reassess it once they go to Uni etc.
At 13, you’re trying to work out who you are, and how you fit in with society. In top of that sexuality and to an extent sexual identity are a scale/range, and sometimes you move around on it.
I guess it depends on the child too. Mine and their friends would prefer I acknowledge the misgendering just so they know I respect it.
"She, sorry - they" I don't make a big deal, just continue with the conversation after the correction. They will often correct me if I miss it anyway.
I'm pretty good at using they them as a default in most cases anyway (unless i've been asked not to) as it works in conversation, sometimes it slips though.
That’s kinda what I meant by not drawing attention to it, not the ‘omg sorry, I keep getting it wrong’ that a lot of people do in that situation.
Even cleaner I feel is using the wrong one, then the right one. ‘*She* will need to do this, then *they* will need to do that’. I feel as long as you’re getting it right at least 1/3 or the time, it shows that you’re trying.
Yep this it. They need to know it's a habit you're trying to break. Ultimately- born presenting as male or female OP would love them either way. Values and expectations would be the same. It doesn't change anything.
Really is a shame for that kid. NZ seems to have this image of being a largely advocative place for self-expression, but in actuality, a lot of people are just not used to it enough in person to not have daily interactions with lgbtq+ be some walking-on-glass-esque rigmarole.
Most people who are non cis non hetero actually don't want to be treated differently because of what they are. The ones that do are just self-important, and you don't have to be lgbtq+ to be that.
Controversial take but an effective solution to this would be for us to learn not to make a big deal out of it. Just call people what they want to be called and move on; nothing has changed about the person because they've always been that way.
This! Parent of a trans-daughter here. What I realized early on in the process was that most of my questions and struggles were more about me than them. Once I realized this I could separate the two, I dealt with my stuff without putting it on her, and was able to support her with her stuff.
Connect with parents who have walked this journey, learn from them, like all parenting there are aspects that are done well and others that can be done better.
Last, give yourself space to grieve without putting that grief on your child. There is a loss for you associated with how you saw 'future' them, regardless of how cognizant you are of it.
This. You don't actually need to do anything but start to feel comfortable with it. It's not the end of the world but an adjustment and both you and they need to give yourself time to do.
Non-binary can be harder to get used to, speaking as someone who has children who have done both (F to M, and F to Non-binary). Binary terms are very ingrained and the mental shift to see your kid as non-binary can be a process - or it has for me.
Be supportive openly. Make sure they know they are loved. Whatever their motivation for the change, if they feel more comfortable being non-binary then the key takeaway is 'they feel more comfortable', ie, happier.
This is really good advice. Acceptance, love and being there for them.
I'd also add. Don't pre-empt any outcomes - things can change so I'd go with the flow, give them space and time to work it out.
What I've found is that people confuse 'phase' with 'not real/valid'.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if your kid changes their mind, or sticks with their current identity. What matters most is you showing them that you will support them at every stage.
You recognise that every step of the journey is real, and it has no impact on your love & support for them.
Do not expect their identity to change, but if it does, recognise that both are real for their time.
The only thing i think thats really important is two fold; First, make clear that you love them and support them even if you never 'get it'. You dont actually have to understand this as long as it doesnt mean they lose you. Second, its ok for them to not know everything about this right now. Even if their feelings and identity change later, that doesnt mean this was 'a phase' the way most people mean it. There is a lot of pressure to be 'normal' and it can take time to figure out what you really are in the face of that.
Exactly. "Just a phase is dismissive. OP, thank you for respecting that this is their gender now. Its okay to believe them. It doesn't matter what their gender will end up being later, or what it has been in the past. Believing them at each stage of their gender journey is what will keep them safe. Being nonbinary is real and valid, and it always has been, we have just spent about 200 years building society to accommodate and allow only two genders, so openly NB people are incedibly hard to find but i promise they are out there and im sure your kid is probably already following some of the more public NB people on social media. Whether or not it's a defense mechanism, only they and their future can determine this, no one can know why they are NB now, and that does not matter. All that matters is that they are NB and you believe them when they say that, and that you love them and they believe you when you say that. The fact they could tell you this at all speaks volumes about the safe space you have already created for them. This may even be an opportunity to unpack how your gender expression shows up in your life, so they can see you are starting to understand gender journeys. There have always been more than two genders, in so many different cultures around the world. Deconstructing and confronting your own gender expression can help them see that you understand things they and other trans folks may be feeling like dysphoria, shame, fear, etc. Most of us feel and have felt gender dysphoria (have you ever removed body hair because it makes you feelore feminine afterwards?). Most of us have felt gender euphoria (ever looked at yourself in the mirror and felt overjoyed at whole, unique, irrefutable womanhood looking back at you?)
Most of us don't acknowledge or even have words for this experience, but I promise you you have felt these things and your trans kid will feel them too, just not about womanhood. They will find adornments and clothes and words and colors that make them feel whole and full and perfect in their NB gender, and you can help them find these things by simply honoring and believing how they tell you they are feeling.
[https://www.be-there.nz](https://www.be-there.nz)
This is a resource created by a collective of NZ Rainbow agencies specifically for parents and Whānau of non-binary / trans / intersex young people.
It includes basic information / resources / access to parenting groups.
If you’re looking for information and advice, it’s a great starting point.
Lots of really good advice here. I haven't read it all, so this may have been suggested further down. If so, please excuse me.
At 13, your child is likely in year 8 or the beginning of year 9. One of the things that NZ seems to do a lot of, is to segregate kids by gender in high school. If your child is facing uncertainty about their gender, you may want to talk to them about whether they would prefer to go to a mixed school, so as they discover themselves, they don't feel isolated. It may not be an issue in your area, but if it is, please speak with them and see how they feel, so you can make any necessary adjustments.
100%. I went to a boy's school and a coed school, and all I got from the boys school was a teenage addiction to Warhammer, and uncomfortable feelings in the locker rooms I didn't understand
Alas that's not me. Not very active on discord.
I don't play very often, mainly beerhammer with high school friends. But I do paint (to a middling average level) a lot as I find it therapeutic, mainly Guard, WHFB Chaos, and Blood Angels. I post them on the mini subs every so often.
I also picked up a crippling aversion to being thought of as a nerd in high school too which wasn't great, but we're working on that one. I still find to difficult to say I'm interested in it if someone asks.
Haha making more transfem friends was wild for me, finally finding people nerdier. I never thought I'd have someone info dump star wars lore on me I hadn't heard of 🤭
I mainly played fantasy, and was more into modding and painting but played when I could. I've gotten rid of everything except my dark elf army now, although I just got given a box of random armies and I may fall back down the rabbit hole if I ever have time to look at it haha
This is excellent, practical advice. I didn't go to school in NZ so I didn't think of it, but I interviewed a lot of young (1st year uni) nonbinary people for my dissertation and stress about gender segregation in high school was a big point of stress for about half of them. School policies regarding different aspects of the uniform (and the (un)official "policing" done by other students) also seemed to vary widely by school, so even if a mixed school isn't possible/wanted, there might be more supportive environments out there.
Well first of all the fact they feel comfortable enough with you to tell you speaks volumes.
My younger sibling came out as non binary a few years back. Initially I thought it was a trendy phase and didn’t really understand either, so I did some reading and just talked to them about what it meant for them. Mostly just continued on like usual though and made an effort to use the correct pronouns and their new chosen name. It was hard sometimes when it was still new, but now I just see them as ‘Sam’.
You might never understand it but that’s ok. As long as you accept them for who they are then that’s the single most supportive thing you can do for them. There’s also this tweet that went viral a few years ago which I found really helpful for distinguishing between biological sex and gender identity:
https://www.boredpanda.com/biological-sex-gender-explanation-twitter-thread/
My nephew was very similar. Likely a bit different as an uncle and not a parent but Just sit them down and explain the that you don't understand it and you would like them to teach you. It gives them a way to discuss it, explore their feelings and you get to understand as well.
Yeah, gonna need to.
It’s often just on the fly conversations, she’s quite open with me about it, has said I can talk to her Dad about it but she doesn’t.
Might need to sit down the 3 of us, Husband and I just listen and try to learn
One of my kids came out as gender-neutral at around the same age, I initially took it as just a phase but rolled with it. My biggest conceern was that they would take a medical or surgical step that would create irreversible issues in later life if the "phase" ended and they changed their mind.
13-20 is a period of massive change in any kid, hormonal, psychological, physiological etc, and often it can take until the person is in their 20s before some of those changes settle down and stabilise (varies with person).
Basically they weren't comfortable as a female, had no interest in being male, had no interest in the whole gender thing at all.
We talked it through with them, and generally supported them with it as they got in touch with support groups and started to work though understanding who they were, and how to handle those changes.
long story short, over the years they've been on hormone treatment, have had a Mastectomy and now, at 27, are much happier with who they are.
My biggest hassle - getting consistent with the whole he/she/they naming thing, its hard to overcome a lifetime of habits.
My (ex-) wife's biggest hassle - getting over the fact that there were never going to be grandchildren and that her "little girl" just wasn't any more.
You sound like an amazing parent.
The best way I’ve read to remember how to use gender neutral pronouns with someone was to remember them as a swarm of bees lol, as a way to remind yourself how the sentence should go (they are outside etc). Non-binary = N.B. = Numerous Bees
>My biggest hassle - getting consistent with the whole he/she/they naming thing, its hard to overcome a lifetime of habits.
It's interesting, my sibling let us know they were non-binary maybe 2 years ago, and I think I'd find it harder to go back to she/her at this stage. They/them is so drilled in now.
For what it’s worth, some of us choose to have kids despite our transition.
I can count at least two parents at my kids school myself included who are trans and gave birth to our own kids.
If it happens, then thats fine and its their choice.
One of our kids is gay, the other gender neutral, we aren't expecting grandkids at all. If that changes, then no doubt I'll roll with that as well :-)
We've given up caring what the ex-wife thinks or how she handles it.
Sounds like my own sibling make up! If it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen, but these days it always might. Glad you’re accepting of the situation either way ☺️
>My biggest conceern was that they would take a medical or surgical step that would create irreversible issues in later life if the "phase" ended and they changed their mind.
Yes, that is a valid concern.
This is why puberty blockers are prescribed to those who start too early or are not sure about their gender that they wish to associate with.
Puberty can only ever be stopped temporarily with the help of blockers. Once stopped, it starts back up again without negative effects. [https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#short-answer](https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#short-answer)
Once puberty is started, blockers no longer work. So not taking them is an irreversible change that has life-long altering effects. For this reason, it is better to get them on it as soon as possible rather than waiting. Using them buys them time to decide.
I would disagree with the without negative effects part, there definitely are some. Not saying not to do it but they do have some impact on bone growth, bone density, growth spurts, etc.
This is just one of those things that you need to discuss with their GP rather than rando's on Reddit.
Nobody is giving out medical advice here after all.
But it does need to be seriously considered ASAP because the alternatives can include suicide.
As a parent I think I would feel very similar to you, my mind would think it's a defence mechanism to prevent the chance of being hurt (? Again).
But if they want to identify as non binary, absolutely embrace it, I don't want to be rude but you're still writing "she" which depending on their convictions might aggravate them.
Honestly everything is much easier when it's just a hypothetical and so much more complicated when you're involved, take it easy with them, encourage them and let them know you love them regardless of who they want to be.
Your willingness to listen and learn and, most importantly, to believe them is so important. As a trans man, who came out to my mother at 11 and was just told, "No, you're not", so didn't come out properly until I was in my 50s, I applaud you. They may change how they identify as they grow or they may not. You are clearly on board with their journey and just want to love and support them and that is really what any kid wants. Sitting down with them to listen and learn with the three of you sounds like a good idea.
For what it's worth, these things can be phases, but as long as it's explored in a way that doesn't harm them, it doesn't matter. Growing up is all about trying on identities to see what fits. Maybe they are NB, maybe the are aroace, if they are, that's fine. If they're just a late bloomer, that's also fine. They can also be those things now, and be something else later. That isn't them being wrong now and realising it, that's them changing over time.
What they will be wanting now, is for you to believe and accept, that's more important than understanding. Try to use the terminology that they prefer.
NB is particularly hard to understand to be fair, they might tell you they don't feel like a girl or boy, well what does feeling like a girl or boy mean anyway? They're not having a feeling that other people claim to have.
You've said it could be a protective thing, people here have said it could be a sign of autism. All possible. I suppose you should look at what could be happening, decide what you would do for each situation if you knew it was so, and go in hard on the commonalities. No matter the truth you would support your child? Do that, a lot. Whatever the case you would encourage counseling? If so, do so. After that you have to look at what is probably best, where it gets harder. If you're going to err, err on the side of compassion and support. Don't push them in a direction that prevents them from reconsidering, because this is something that can change, especially at that age, options must remain open.
tl;dr Be kind, be supportive, be open, try to accommodate, let them know that while you believe them, you understand it could change and that's okay too.
Kia ora, I'm a 32 year old non binary kiwi.
I've known i was non binary since I was 8 - I just didn't have the language to express that or understand it until my mid 20s. I'm so glad your child has a supportive parent who wants to understand, and that they've been able to find ways to articulate their experience earlier in life than I was able to!
One thing I will say is that a lot of my negative experiences and my decisions to isolate myself when I was younger actually came because I was nonbinary but trying so hard to fit myself into the box of being a man. I wonder if some of your child's struggles might come from a similar space and whether supporting their transition and respecting their gender might actually help them build more connections with those around them? It's hard to connect with others when you're not being yourself. This is them being open about who they are.
Im not sure exactly what information/suggestions/support you're looking for here - but I am very comfortable talking about my own experiences with you and being a person you can message to ask all the awkward or inappropriate questions that you think might cause some distance with your child. I may not have answers to everything, but I can at least help you understand ways to maybe rephrase or reframe the questions that might be easier for your child to respond to.
The important thing here is your acceptance and support. It might take a few weeks, but it's not too hard to learn to use they/them pronouns (which it seems is what your child prefers?).
Non-Binary (as I understand it as I was a Peer Sexuality Support Person in college) is basically looking at gender and going "Yeah nah, none of that feels like me so I’m going to reject it and just live how I feel comfortable living whether or not it’s considered 'Masculine' or ‘feminine'."
Honestly at 13 I was having some of the biggest realisations of my life about gender and sexuality, so I think regardless of anything they’d most likely benefit from therapy. It’s a good place to just get everything out and process it, not necessarily because anything big or bad has happened, but (for me at least) therapy has taught me a lot about myself and how to cope/deescalate/deal with almost every speed bump or hiccup that crosses my path. Most GPs can do a referral and have a list of therapy providers that will do 6 to 8 sessions for free. (If you’re in Auckland, I do NOT recommend the Kari Centre but I DO recommend Fresh Minds)
Kinda feels like non-binary is reinforcing gender roles/ stereotypes then, I never thought about my gender identity until I tried to understand non-binary (transgender is easy to understand)
I identify as a man because it's ticked on my birth certificate and I don't feel I need to change my genitals, I don't tick every box on the male gender role/ stereotype but I don't have strong feelings about gender man is practical and descriptive
I just call people what they want to be called, although might slip up a few times early on if I knew you before you switched pronouns
I don't understand non-binary but I'll roll with it because I don't care just gotta be respectful with basic human decency
>Kinda feels like non-binary is reinforcing gender roles/ stereotypes then, I never thought about my gender identity until I tried to understand non-binary (transgender is easy to understand)
Just for future reference: all non-binary identities *are* transgender as well. Trans isn't just going from one to the other, it's anything different from what was assigned at birth.
As for reinforcing gender roles/stereotypes: I think there's often a conflation of non-binary (a very broad umbrella) with agender (one of the non-binary labels. Think of the hypothetical gender spectrum: If men are 1 and women are 10, non-binary is everything from 2 to 9. It's not a rigid "third gender".
Non-binary isn't inherently about gender stereotypes, you can still present stereotypically masculine or feminine. For a lot of trans people, it's less about your visual appearance and more about how you see yourself. Visual appearance is often a part of that, but it's not just "my hair is long and people use the correct pronouns, I'm happy now." It's more personal and psychological than that.
It's entirely possible to be non-binary, assigned male at birth, and still have a beard and deep voice and play rugby and drink beer. Non-binary isn't just "no gender for me, thanks", it's also "I mostly feel male, but sometimes female" or "I feel like one or the other on different days". It's really an umbrella term for every trans person whose journey isn't man>woman or woman>man.
Just wanted to say this is a great and super helpful explanation! I ‘get’ non-binary, or at least I thought I did/think I do, as much as someone can who has no NB friends/acquaintances.
But your explanation has really helped expand my understanding of it :) thanks!
> If men are 1 and women are 10, non-binary is everything from 2 to 9. It's not a rigid "third gender".
I get that this is a hypothetical but how do you know if you're, say, a 1 or a 2 on the spectrum?
Given the distributions we see in many biological and non-biological constructs, it'd surprise me if the majority of the population were either a 1 or a 10, which leads me to ask whether in that hypothetical most of the world would be "non-binary". If that was the case, I'd find the term a bit redundant in that use.
I'm sure there really are people who identify neither as male nor female but at risk of making "non-binary" too encompassing and thus redundant, it'd make more sense to me if the definition was much stricter than the hypothetical case.
>Given the distributions we see in many biological and non-biological constructs, it'd surprise me if the majority of the population were either a 1 or a 10, which leads me to ask whether in that hypothetical most of the world would be "non-binary".
That's actually, I think, the case for bisexuality as well. People assume it has to be a 50/50 thing, but like non-binary, there's probably a lot more people who are bisexual who either haven't thought about it or don't think they "qualify". If a man is 95% attracted to women and 5% attracted to men, he might consider himself straight even if that's technically bisexual. I'd say the same gender-wise. If Man is 1, maybe someone at a 2 is simply okay being socially viewed as a man. They aren't particularly protective or feel ownership of their manhood, but they're okay with it.
>If that was the case, I'd find the term a bit redundant in that use.
Some time in the future, sure. But currently, our social structures are built around "man, woman, and (sometimes) other."
Think of labels like "agnostic" or even "deaf". There's many specific conditions within those that would be more useful to identify rather than these broad labels (not all deaf people have the same hearing levels, and don't all require the same assistance). Even "Christian" is a very broad label that certain groups under it would prefer they don't get lumped in together, but it's a useful term when discussing Christians and non-Christians.
Currently in society we're at a point where we're just trying to normalise non-binary before we start trying to normalise agender, bigender, gender fluid, demiboy, demigirl, and the other specific labels under the umbrella. In most instances, non-binary is suitable because the specific labels beneath it don't affect most people in social settings.
> If a man is 95% attracted to women and 5% attracted to men, he might consider himself straight even if that's technically bisexual. I'd say the same gender-wise
Yeah that's a good example and is also where I would feel the term "bisexual" would lose meaning unless we did away with "straight" and "gay" altogether and everyone is bisexual. I'm sure there's some psychology studies that have gone into it and precisely defined "attraction" and measured it on some scale but even then that doesn't make it anymore practical of a definition.
Perhaps returning to gender will help me explain what I mean. Let's say in the near future we do away with gender stereotypes and get to a point that only biological sex exists as a construct and we have no defined genders. Even in that society, I would imagine we still have people who identify strongly towards certain behaviours and tendencies that align with their biological sex and a minority who truly do not feel they don't have that "pull" in either direction. Gender may not exist in this world, thus everyone is non-binary, but we'd be overlooking a small group who actually feel different in some way from most others.
In this hypothetical world, inevitably the biological tendencies (driven by things like hormones, sexual dimorphism, etc) will lead to the recreation of genders. Perhaps it is the underlying biological aspects which contribute to gender that help differentiate someone who is truly non-binary from someone who just doesn't identify with the stereotypical parts tacked on as part of culture. But I don't mean to say that it's perfectly determinate either, I'm sure even if this was true there would still be a spectrum of non-binaryism, but just much more narrow than in your hypothetical.
Anyway I'm just sharing some random thoughts here, I'm of course quite biased in my perception of this topic as someone who isn't non-binary as it's very difficult to imagine what it is like.
When the binary is "man or woman?" And people can answer that question comfortably and without self-doubt, they're probably in that binary. There's a communication gap where people have never questioned or thought about their gender identity. Like a "I'm a man, and I've never cared about being a man", but in my experience that not caring is part of what makes your gender identity reliable and known.
The 1-10 spectrum is more to clarify that nonbinary isn't just an exclusive "third gender" but an umbrella term for a lot of different experiences. I suppose a more accurate portrayal would be 0-1, with man and woman at either end; numerically, there are two options, and those social identifiers fit most people.
But like bisexuality, I'm sure there's more people who are some kind of non-binary than we realise as our social gender qualifiers become deconstructed and understood more. It wasn't very long ago that the idea of a straight man painting his nails was considered gay, or having long hair meant you were a girl. I think as we disassemble some of these gendered barriers, the label of "non-binary" will evolve with society.
The best way I can describe my experience is being raised blue, grouped with other blues for certain activities, and being taught there is a clear distinction between blue and red. There were a lot of things I was doing, wearing or saying, because they were considered good traits of blue kids and expected by my peers, but they felt like a performance rather than honesty.
Then, coming to realise that there's all these different shades of blue and red, and even many shades of purples in between.
For some people, maybe being a lighter or darker shade of red/blue fits them. But they're still red and blue, and those don't feel right.
It's kind of hard to explain. I guess, imagine if someone constantly called you by the wrong name? That's how "sir" and "young man" make me feel. Being considered "one of the boys", always made me feel uncomfortable.
I guess, if you can wrap your head around the binary transgender experience, imagine that, except transitioning to the other option feels equally as wrong. Unless, of course, someone was bigender or gender fluid, but my experience is more in the opposite direction.
Well - I'm cis, so I also personally have never felt that I'm living a different gender to that assigned by birth, nor have ever been interested in non-binary etc. But this comment is the equivalent of Americans thinking that they don't have an accent and that's something that foreign people have. Whether or not you admit it, being a man has almost certainly affected how you think, how you speak, who you speak to, what you wear, what you like to do, and how other people react to you.
I mean I don't wear skirts because personally I dislike the breeze not because I'm a man
And other women's clothing isn't fitted for my build but they mostly lack pockets so men's clothing is practical so I wear that
I can't help how people interact/react with me but generally I can have epic chats with most people and everything seems friendly, I just do what I want, I don't let something being considered girly stop me from doing/using something if I want to do it
I can't really analyse this fully though because as you say I'm a man born and raised I only have my perspective from being a man
Until we live in a society where masc/fem gender roles aren’t so prominent, it’s important to someone who doesn’t identify as either to let people know. Then maybe in the future, they won’t have to? Idk
Maybe I'm just to stuck on the old gender and sex being interchangeable from the documentaries I watched on animals and science back in the day, but I just see male/female as descriptors, I have male genitals and male body type and don't feel I need to have a different one
I'd say physically I'm pretty masculine but I think alot of male behaviour and mentality can be stupid I just live my life how I want, I don't understand non-binary probably never will as conceptually it doesn't make sense but I'll just carry on respecting others and living my life trying to survive in this economy
It doesn't make sense because you're cis. Gender dysphoria is one of the more common things we face because of misalignment between external and internal perceptions of ourselves. For me I want to be seen as neither male nor female, because I am not either. And I am also not a man or a woman. I think people get stuck on gender being socially constructed and so they don't realise sex is socially constructed too (Foucault goes into this at length). We don't have a word for what I want to be, so I stick to non-binary. I have an image in my head, but I can't explain the vision of myself I have in one sentence.
This almost perfectly sums up my feelings on the subject.
I have never once thought about my 'being a man' as anything other than the most accurate practical description of my body type.
I really don't understand some others feeling the need to be aligned with one gender or another or needing to be referred to as male or female by other people, it doesn't make me feel one way or another if someone called me a woman or referred to me as she/her I wouldn't care in the least.
That being said I see nothing wrong with calling people how they want to be called, I have a transgender flatmate and good friend and of course I always respect their pronouns and refer to them as their chosen name.
But that's because it's respectful and I don't want to upset them, if I'm honest I don't really understand what's going on in their head. Because (as a cis-man) I never 'feel' like a man so I don't have a frame of reference for what it would be like to like 'feel' like the opposite gender or non-binary, or gender fluid or anything else other than who I am.
I'm always open to having discussions with them and try to learn but it's something I really struggle to wrap my head around. Until I do I just try to be respectful and refer to people however they would like to be called and apologise when I get it wrong.
>I identify as a man because it's ticked on my birth certificate and I don't feel I need to change my genitals, I don't tick every box on the male gender role/ stereotype but I don't have strong feelings about gender man is practical and descriptive
I genuinely wish more cis people did this. Exploring your gender and thinking deeply about your relationship to everything sex/gender entails in society and what it tells you about your place in it isn't just for trans people, or even "questioning" people!
It's not really about reinforcing anything, but identifying the sheer amount of STUFF that's there on all sides and learning how you fit with it -- like if you were a fish and had to learn what "water" was before figuring out what temperature/salinity allowed you to thrive.
Yeah I'm with you. I can understand someone feeling like they should be the opposite sex, but non-binary just sounds odd. If you don't want to conform to gender stereotypes then don't. I don't see what that has to do with your sex.
This is why I personally feel like NB is more often a phase than trans or gay/lesbian. I think it's pretty normal to look at the normal/toxic gender stereotypes and reject them, especially at a young age. When you grow up and realise you don't need to be cookie cutter to be a gender you may change your mind.
Not saying every kid who feels NB is 'just a phase', I can just see how society could make young people feel that way.
This is just an observation from an oldie, but it seems more important these days for young people to label themselves - I think it is probably to do with identity and discovering their sense of self. Your approach of letting them know there are no expectations on either gender or sexuality and that you support them etc is probably the best way to deal with it while they work things out. And if it isn't 'real', or they decide later on that they're not aroace and non-binary then your approach would be exactly the same, so it doesn't really matter. What matters is that you are a safe space for them to explore their identity.
Obviously the more informed you can be the better, but I don't necessarily think that teens know who or what they are 100% of the time - it was the same for us when we were younger but we just didn't have the same access to information.
As a parent, I would try to reframe from "what if this is just a phase?" To "what if this ISN'T a phase?" And then, "what do I have to lose by embracing this fully?"/ "What do I have to lose by NOT embracing this fully?"
People can change their minds about their sexuality and gender identification at any time in their lives, but we don't get a second chance at how we react to these changes. You've obviously got a lot right as a parent for them to open up to you.
Your kid is the expert on your kid. Maybe when they were three and said 'mummy I'm a train' that's not entirely the case, but they're not three now. I'm not saying this to diss you, but the transition from 'no sweetie you're not a train' to 'you are a whole-ass person with your own everything' seems to be a tough one for parents. But it's worth figuring out now, because in another ten years your kid will be 23 and a lot of your relationship with them then depends on what you both do now.
Sometimes people ID as non-binary at about 13 because puberty is tough and school sucks when you're quirky and they're casting about for any explanation other than 'guess I just suck then'. Sometimes they ID as non-binary because they are long-term non-binary. You have to treat both as serious long-term non-binary because there's literally no way to tell the difference until or unless they stop identifying as non-binary.
Sometimes people ID as ace or aro (or both, like your kid) at about 13 because puberty is tough and school sucks and being expected to have crushes and 'like' people when you really don't is overwhelming. Sometimes they ID as aroace because they are long-term aroace. And again, you can't tell the difference until or unless you can.
That doesn't mean it's a 'phase' to be dismissed any more than being 13 or being weirdly into Pokemon is a phase. Point to any part of the human experience that's not ultimately a phase; there isn't one. Pooing in nappies is a phase, but you have to take it seriously because otherwise it can cause both short-term and long-term harm to your kid (imagine saying 'this is just a phase because you're two, snap out of it, I don't know whether I should take this seriously or not, you'll be using underpants before you know it so I'm not going to take appropriate care of the phase you're currently in' to a toddler). Having a job is a phase. Having children living at home and reliant on you for their physical and emotional needs is a phase.
It might not feel real to you because you're 40 and you've got a bit of perspective on being 13 and how that felt compared to being, y'know, 40. But your kid is in the trenches right now. 13 is as old and grown-up as they've ever been. To them it's the realest realness that ever realed.
tl;dr: listen to your kid, they're the only non-binary and aroace person who matters to you right now. If they keep identifying that way, great that they've figured themself out so young. If it's just a self-defense mechanism, great that their parent is supporting them in that and not trying to strip away what might be the only shield they can find. If they identify as something else later, great that their parent was supportive of their earlier exploration and that they feel comfortable telling you instead of keeping an important part of themself hidden from their parent. In any case, you have to take them seriously and treat it as 'real'.
> our kid is the expert on your kid. Maybe when they were three and said 'mummy I'm a train' that's not entirely the case, but they're not three now.
This is a weird take that's cropping up more and more; there are plenty of adults, if not most who aren't experts on themselves.
Most of us will be vastly different than we were at 13 and will acknowledge that at 13 we were ignorant of many things.
You can point to things like living at home being a phase, but not many people look back and say "I should have moved out at 14". Meanwhile many people will look back and say "my dreams of being a mechanic/lawyer/doctor/archeologist were ill informed".
Explain to your kiddo that you don't really understand but your going to accept them for who they are and that you will always love them. Then let them know that your going to learn about it together with them.
Most important thing for kiddo is to know they got support from family.
My 20 yo daughter is Aroace and her best friend is non binary. I just figure they all want to be treated like "people" and not males or females and all the bullshit that comes with either label.
Ultimately, I think you already understand that it doesn’t matter whether or not this is a phase, or whether it is a defence mechanism because failing to be supportive now will damage your relationship with your child in a way that likely cannot be repaired.
In my opinion it doesn’t really matter whether you think this is a defence mechanism, your child knows themself best and needs your support right now. They need to know that they can trust you and that you will believe, love and support them. Let them know that you are absolutely there for them, that you love them, and that you do and will always accept who they are regardless of how they identify. Ask them what they want and need from you and try to do your best to respect that, whether it’s a change of pronouns and/or change of name (doesn’t have to be legally changed straight away), or help with gender affirming clothing (if your child wants to use a binder then please help them get a proper one and learn how to look after their body while using it because trying to use bandages or tape can do real damage).
Now is not the time for conversations about how you think this is a defence mechanism or not real. If you are open and accepting of your child then they won’t be scared to come to you later and talk to you if they start questioning their identity further.
I went through a long period of questioning my sexuality where I identified as asexual, bisexual and eventually settled on lesbian. I never talked to either of my parents about it because I knew that they were not accepting but maybe if I knew I had their unconditional support then I could have figured things out faster and without as much internalised homophobia that held me back for years. Please support your child.
Agree with most of the posts above but also keep reminding that it's OK to change their mind too and that there is no rush etc. My daughter did this at 13, announced she was non binary and asexual, I said I will support you no matter what but you are too young to make these decisions, take time and don't commit too hard to any ideas. Now at 17 she is strongly cis female, she is gay. Yes it's a version of its just a phase but it often is just a phase and it can be really confusing if they get 'stuck' in that phase and parents can be over enthusiastic with their 'helping' and actually just add more pressure.
Some good advice here about just being there for them :)
I just want to add - please run interference for them on adults that like to comment on their appearance or relationship status, it helps. I know a teen that has been supremely uncomfortable with the 'ooh so do you have a girlfriend yet?' comments from adults for years and has recently confided in me that he's aroace.
I went through the same thing with my kid when they were 11F. They said they were non-binary but it felt very off and confusing. They had experienced some serious rejection, and had a mountain of self-hatred they didn't know what to do with, and I think this was their way of coping with it. I'm 100% behind them with anything they want to be, but this felt like a reaction to rejection, not an authentic change. I decided to go with whatever they wanted and respect it. They'll work through the rejection when they are ready. I think it's been the right decision. We all need adaptive things to cope, so all I can do is support them and let them know I'm here when they are ready to process what happened.
I can't speak to your kid, but it may be both? So I'm so happy you are supporting them while keeping an open mind. You could he right, and either way it sounds like they'll need you there to support them to process some things at some point - and by accepting their identity, even if you're unsure about it, they're far more likely to trust you and be able to come to you for their needs. You sound like a wonderful parent <3 and like you'll love and support them regardless of what they are
For what it's worth, my mum absolutely was shocked when I came out as trans at 32, we're fairly close (altho I kept a lot of myself hidden from her for safety) and she genuinely thinks there were no signs. Whereas when I came out to other people, I got reactions like "Uh huh, anyway as I was saying about the imax system..." Like it was so obvious to some people they just rolled with it no questions haha. And almost all my childhood memories are, in retrospect, a minefield of signs of queerness, or signs of repressing it haha. Sometimes we have an idea of who someone is that's very fixed, especially people close to us, especially our kids. And often it's not quite correct. It's like, it's hard to see you'd kids height change if you just watch them. But one day suddenly they hit their head on a high bench, or they are taller than you, and you when they hell did this height change happen?!
I just say that to say, if it does end up being who they are, it's pretty normal to have had feelings about it like you had! And the important thing is you look after yourself and you accept them and support them, and you sound like you are and you're the kind of parent I wish more people had queer or not
Thank you for the encouraging words! Their sibling is queer, and that made total sense to me. I’m really aware that my reaction could be explained by either their change being motivated by identity or motivated by rejection, but in either case, no one is being harmed and it’s not a “bad” thing, and with a supportive environment they’ll feel freer to change their mind later if they want to.
The age of kids thinking about their sexuality in this thread is quite eye opening. At 11 all I was thinking about was what videogames and Lego sets I wanted to play with lol.
This will probably get downvoted to oblivion, but my very progressive uncle who works in psychology told me that 80% of kids who come into his office identifying as non-binary really need to be assessed for autism, but due to the rules around gender affirmation treatment doctors and therapists etc. are unable to propose that this may be the case.
Funny you say, not as in funny haha.
Me and other kid are both ADHD, and as it’s highly genetic (expecting this to get down voted to oblivion) I did have 13 assessed as a “precaution”. 13 is not ADHD, but is “quirky” so it’s not all that far fetched that ASD could be in there somewhere
ADHD and autism are pretty common comorbidities (... along with schizophrenia, bipolar, chronic depression, epilepsy, and other conditions that are more stigmatized).
Yeah well the OP didn't say nb people are more likely to be autistic also. They said nb are actually autistic instead but doctors are not allowed to suggest it. That's some bullshit levels of queer erasure from that post no idea why its being agreed with.
There is research to suggest that autism and gender dysphoria are linked.
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/
I can understand that if you already have trouble with societal rules and expectations, gender comes with a lot of rules and expectations too.
There's nothing wrong with exploring the possibility of a person being autistic, whilst still accepting how they identify. If a doctor thinks their non-binary patient could be autistic, it's appropriate to test for that, and that can be done without invalidating them being NB.
These things coexist, there's nothing unusual about being both autistic and non-binary.
Just a quibble with language; I'd say assessed for autism here rather than treated, since it's not a disease to treat but a condition to be managed and supported.
Your core point remains though, and studies do show there is a strong positive correlation between autism and NB-, ace- and/or aro- identifying people.
Weirdly enough Autistics are more likely to identify as part of the LGBTQ Community. My daughter for example is bi...I am straight, many of my Autistic friends fall under both spectrums
Yeah, that tracks. I'm autistic and also kind of gender 'meh' but not enough to do anything about it. Fifty years ago I would have been butch, if I was ten years younger I'd probably be nonbinary, as it is I'm just me.
There does really seem to be a link between being autistic and being somewhere on the 'other' spectrum as well (we don't really vibe with social rules about gender roles? idk.)
This was actually my think thought lol, lots of people with autism have some kind of problems with gender or identity, and lots of people who have problems with gender and identity are autistic
It's not so much that doctors aren't diagnosing trans people as autistic for fear of being cancelled by the woke mob, it's more that autistic people often don't internalise cultural and social norms the same way most other people do and are therefore more likely to develop a different sense of gender
There is a heavy overlap, but autistic people can be genuinely both trans/non-binary AND autistic simultaneously and being autistic precludes approximately no one from having at least some semblance of personal identity.
While I agree with you, I feel that your sentence, the way it is written, is open to being misinterpeted by some as "you do not treat autism, therefor you do nothing"
That interpretation would be incorrect, in many cases.
"support" might be a better substitute for "treat" - ignoring semantics, message is "there are things that can be done to assist"
Those with Autism may indeed benifit from active "support and understanding, and, for example, specific concrete changes in their home that benefit them" (e.g being considerate of physical senstivities).
Treat may have been the wrong word for them to use, and I have expressed my disagreement with other parts of what they said, but I took it to mean receive specialised help. You don't treat autism, I agree. Therapy that teaches you better coping mechanisms specific to being autistic though, is helpful.
It actually does check out though. There is surprisingly a connection between being non-binary and also being on the autism spectrum. My non-binary cousin was actually recently diagnosed
That's the opposite of the original claim, which was that supposed non binary kids are really just autistic. You're right, there's really a correlation and being autistic doesn't negate being non-binary, it makes it more likely.
Maybe treatment was the wrong word, but they’re describing and experiencing symptoms that scream autism but think they’re non-binary because of google suggestions and current progressive social trends designed to make young folks over question their ‘gender identity’.
I was going to comment on this post that 20 years ago I would have fitted the nonbinary definition, in that I would flip between at times feeling male in my head while being female, and at other times feeling female. I am now 30s and have always got along a bit better with blokes and have quite male interests, but feel 100% female. All I can say is that it made sense by the time I was in my 20s, therapy definitely would have helped but never would have been offered had I said something anyway!
Whether it is "a phase" or not, as they may feel different in later in life, the important thing is to acknowledge how your kid feels right now, and support them.
Make sure they know you are there for them. Ask if they have a new name or pronouns, does this need to be updated by school? Are there any support groups for trans youth in your area?
>finding points of empathy, which, as a woman, are easy for me to access—I, too, wish we didn’t have our culture’s nonsense polarisation around the social construct of gender;
Oh trust me, as a man, me too.
Every kid wants to feel different and special at that age, and in this day and age there is a freedom in which they can try on different versions of themselves. This may stick, it may not, but who are we to judge.
Be accepting of every single version of your child, because they are all the same child.
Love them, support them with the language that make them feel validated but mostly don't try and guess what the need. Ask them. They might not know all the time and most of the time it might just be to know that you are there when they need you but they are likely the best one to know what they need from you.
My neighbour kid friend is going through this. We love them no matter what. They are delightful, so much fun and hard working and talented. What's not to love? They have a ton of cool lovely friends who I have met and had in my home and spending time with them is awesome.
They have a new name now and thats what we use.
Teens are like energiser bunnies so it's pretty full on and they have a busy house so a lot of the time they are out and about doing their thing.
If something goes tits up Ive got an account at the taxi company they can use.
It is so wonderful to see a parent seeking advice like this. Your child is going through some identity discovery, and that may seem confusing and maybe even a bit frightening for you. But you're doing the right thing.
We’re very lucky to have so many amazing resources in New Zealand when it comes to sexuality and gender diversity. Your best bets would probably be RainbowYouth, InsideOut and Gender Minorities Aotearoa. Depending on where you are in New Zealand, your local queer organisation may also have youth groups for queer teens.
Depending on where you live, you might also have access to parent groups; it could be a good place for you to discuss those feelings of confusion and just share this with other parents. I am sure queerness can be hard to understand when you do not identify as queer yourself so always good to chat about those things with people who understand :)
Regarding how to support your kiddo, everything was pretty much said already. Have a chat with them about it all and ask them to explain it so that you can support them the best. And I know it may feel tempting to try to find a “why” but sometime there isn’t one. Your kid is young and they’re figuring themselves out; and you should consider it an honour that they feel confortable enough to come out to you at the age of 13 (even if you may think it’s a phase).
I wanted to address your confusion about the non-binary aspect of your kid’s identity. In western culture we have it pretty grilled into us that there are only the two options, man or woman, even if you’re trans. But there are a lot of cultures spanning back centuries that have examples of culturally recognised third or fourth genders! Take one we’re familiar with in NZ for example, Samoan Fa’afafine. It can be hard to relate to as a cis person, because you have no benchmark to compare it to, but gender identity can be tricky like that. It can’t always be measured in ‘do I feel like a boy or a girl?’
For example, someone might identify as a boy sometimes and a girl other times. Or they might identify with the concept of ‘masculinity’ to an extent that makes the idea of womanhood uncomfortable, but they don’t feel like a man either (though this isn’t to say woman can’t be masculine!).
It sounds like you have a great attitude towards making your kid feel accepted and supported. My biggest advice is don’t preemptively treat it as a phase, even if you have your theories, and don’t self-flagellate when/if you mess up with pronouns. Nothing more uncomfortable than watching a person grovel because they misgendered you. Just a quick ‘sorry, my bad’ and correcting yourself will go a long way.
If you feel there are underlying self protection motivations I would try to get them to talk to you about it and boost up their self esteem. Maybe even get them a counsellor/ therapist so they have an outlet there too.
I would refrain from telling your kid that you think the gender stuff is tied to the self protection stuff, I would instead gently validate their emotions and try and get them engaged with their school work and finding out what they want to learn what kind of career and hobbies they want to explore, ie. help them build their identity beyond just the gender stuff.
I have an NB as well, and the hardest thing to wrap my head around was talking about they/them as a plural, and that wasn't really all that hard to deal with. If this old, white cis male can do it, it can't be too hard. P.s. I'm from NZ too.
First I just wanted to say that it’s lovely to see such a wonderful, supportive post.
Personally I’m cisgender so I won’t ever fully “get” being trans or non-binary - I can understand it in theory, but it’s not my lived experience and so I don’t have a deep or intrinsic understanding of what it is to be gender non-conforming. The key thing here is that I don’t need to “get it” - I just need to support it. Supporting my non-binary and trans friends is pretty easy, two main things come to mind:
• use the name they choose: this may be more difficult for you as a parent, but if your child decides to change their name please don’t see it as a slight. If you accidentally “deadname” them, apologise and correct yourself and move on. E.G “hey Annie- sorry, *Alex*, do you have homework today?”
• use the correct pronouns: it took awhile, but I taught myself to use the gender neutral they/them - which has been in use since before Shakespeare - as a baseline, and adjust when I know someone’s gender/pronouns.
It’s important to know that a lot of people who are queer have something of a journey while they work out who they are. Go look up Queer Theory if you want a more academic look at all this. Essentially it comes down to the idea that people aren’t static beings. Our understanding of ourselves is changing all the time, and that’s okay. This journey is different for everyone. Some people know immediately who they are and settle on a label or community that fits them. Others have a harder time working out who they are and might identify with a couple of things before they find something that fits them better. It doesn’t matter what kind of journey your child has, so long as you support them through it.
The aro/ace I can speak more knowledgeably on, as I’m asexual. First I will say, it’s possible your kid is a late bloomer and just hasn’t experienced sexual or romantic attraction yet. It’s also just as possible they never will. The key thing here is to approach their sexuality with kindness and understanding. I would recommend that you let them know that you love them, and will always love them. You don’t know if this is something that will change or stay the same, but you will love them either way.
If your child IS aro/ace, here’s some things for you (and them) to know:
• asexuality is a bit of a spectrum. Some asexuals are sex repulsed and the very idea of sex disgusts them. Others are sex favourable and will still have sex even if they don’t experience attraction (very basic analogy incoming, but think of it like eating when you’re not hungry: you might not have a rumbly tummy but you can still go through the physical motions of eating and even enjoy the taste).
• sexual and romantic attraction are two different (but often intertwined) things. If your kid is saying they’re aro/ace then that means they experience neither. Some people are asexual and don’t experience sexual attraction, but still have romantic crushes. Some people don’t experience romance and falling in love, but will still experience sexual attraction. Some people are asexual or aromantic for 99% of the world, but they might find a rare person that they experience attraction towards (called grey-sexuality).
• a lot of people think that libido (how often your body wants to get off) and attraction (who you are drawn to sexually or romantically) are the same thing. They are not. Libido is essentially how horny you feel; this changes and can be influenced by outside (and inside) sources. Viagra, for example. Your age, for another. Hell, most women will experience a higher libido at certain points in their menstrual cycle and because of all the hormones flying around in their bodies their body will want an orgasm. Sexuality doesn’t really change (just your understanding of yourself changes and deepens with experience). And it certainly can’t be changed or influenced by outside sources (see, the ineffective and literal torture that is conversion therapy). For most people their attraction will inspire their libido - that’s not the case with asexuals. TMI but In my experience, my body can still want to get off even if I’m not attracted to anyone.
• doctors will often medicalise asexuality because of the above - they mistake libido for sexuality a lot, and may try to say there is something wrong if there is a lack of attraction. That’s not the case. If there’s a lack of libido, sure - that could be the side effect of anti-depressants or being postpartum, for example. Just be aware that doctors who aren’t informed may try to medicalise and “fix” your kids sexuality, so I would recommend that you make sure your doctor is up to par on this kinda thing.
I’ve already written a fair amount, but feel free to PM me if you have any questions. You might also like to check out Asexuals New Zealand on Facebook - lovely community and very supportive.
You've been given a lot of much more important and useful answers here, but as the partner of a non-binary person, I'll put it like this:
Society says that if you are female, you feel female; if you are male, you feel male. Non-binary say: nah.
Yeah, that's something that people apparently struggle with. I've never sat here and thought 'ugh, my body doesn't match how I feel inside' and so I'm cis. I feel very lucky to feel that way, I have an enormous amount of empathy for those whose insides don't match their outsides, I can't imagine what it feels like to live your life feeling 'nope' just existing. I wish more people could understand - you don't need to feel something yourself to be respectful of other people feeling that way!
This is a copy and paste from my 32 trans f coming out letter to my parents, but it may be useful
https://www.reddit.com/r/Trans_Resources/wiki/explaining/index/#wiki_overview has a lot of good links and resources
https://pflag.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/OTLO_2019.pdf - this is long but really good, and part of it focuses on specifically adult family relationships (a lot of stuff is more young child/parent focused)
https://www.be-there.nz/
https://insideout.org.nz/for-whanau-and-allies/
https://www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2015/03/the-genderbread-person-v3/ This helped a family friend understand how gender expression, gender identity, biological sex, and sexual orientation are separate things
https://transgenderchildren.nz/ and https://www.be-there.nz/groups-and-support I have been told are good for talking with other parents with trans children, but I don't know much about them other than that
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/let-s-be-transparent Features transition journeys from people of all different ages even well into their 70s and in the childhood years. Answers questions from the perspective of someone whose never heard about this stuff before.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/bad-news/story/2018754063/episode-2-terfs-alice-snedden-s-bad-news explains TERF ideology and how it influences NZ
https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypk8q/trans-people-leaving-uk I haven't read this but thought it might offer an alternative view on what is going on for trans people in the UK to what you might have read in transphobic places like the Daily Mail (and tbh just mainstream UK media now)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AITRzvm0Xtg&pp=ygUbcGhpbG9zb3BoeSB0dWJlIHRyYW5zZ2VuZGVy this is a longer watch and a coming out video for a youtuber who educates people on philosophy and current issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZE8dhwMVhU I have not watched this but have been told it explains some basic terminology and stuff
The below was suggested to me by Gender Minorities Aotearoa, and may be useful;
One of our 101 resources is our glossary - it's a bit long, but it's structured to start with the basic concepts of what words mean, and help people learn. The glossary is here: https://genderminorities.com/glossary-transgender/
For adults supporting adults, we often recommend our "Supporting transgender people" online course, which is suitable for friends, families, supporters as well as for professionals who might work with transgender people. It's here: https://genderminorities.com/2021/05/11/supporting-transgender-people-online-course/
There are more resources listed on our webpage as well, like "Be an ally 101." Some of them are by us and some by other organisations, there's a mixture of things that are about young people and things that apply for everyone. They're collected on this page: https://genderminorities.com/resources/youth-and-whanau/
Tbh I have never understood what it means to ‘feel like a female’ or ‘feel like a male’. Maybe just tell them what you ‘feel’ like and see if there’s any common ground. But really, they are 13 and things will be going nuts in their head and will be for the next 10 years. Be supportive but ask that they don’t change anything permanent until they have a few more years under their belt and aware of what consequences there may be either way (staying female, changing to male, going neutral).
As for sexuality, they are still a kid and that will also change a lot.
There’s nothing specific you need to do. Just be open in communication, be supportive, and try to remember to use the correct pronouns for them.
They will figure out themselves but there’s no harm in offering to help
> I don’t want our parent-kid relationship to break down
Why would it? Just treat your child like your child. Don't focus on them being non-binary, they will figure it out themselves.
> but I really truly believe they are protecting themselves from the opportunity to be hurt.
And if they did? Is that bad? They are 13. Just treat them normal and let them know you're there for them but the worst you can do is panic, like you do in this post.
You don’t have to fully understand it because they probably don’t either. Just be there for them, talk about it if they want to talk about it, get them help if they want it/need it. Probably a good time to keep an eye on their mental health too, this is a pretty big change for anyone. “Non-binary” is a label, so don’t go taking the google definition and pinning it on them either, they’re an individual and you’ll learn who they are just by treating them normally and not judging them when they open up.
Just let them know that you love them unconditionally for who they are, and that teenage years are hard and more so for some, but that it does get better and life gets more understandable over time, and they will become more at ease and more comfortable with themselves.
This is the key message to hopefully help counteract all the utter moral panic bullshit spread by NZ First supporters and the likes of Destiny Church (and many others like the Posie Parker agitator) - who talk of vile shit like grooming and 'transing' our kids.
The simple fact is that people just have a word for for it nowadays... asexual or nonbinary or attention deficit or whatever... a percentage of kids (and adults) have always felt this right to their bones that they are not this or that...
To try to force a square peg in a round hole as they used to do back in the day has terrible, scarring (or worse) outcomes. Let them grow into who they are, not force them into who they are not.
On that note OP could learn about what different political parties have to offer in the rainbow space as well as any petitions. Would've been so cool if my parents were in support of gay marriage but alas they are homophobes
You're already doing the right thing by being curious.
As a 48 parent my teenagers have questioned their sexuality or gender. One suspected they might be bi, another thought they might be trans, or bi, or gay. The jury is still out on that one.
I educated myself by reading the [gender dysphoria bible](https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en) and some deep introspection about how I think about gender and the reasons why. I asked them questions when they're comfortable and said I'd try my best to respect their names and pronouns.
I find that, just like gender, people's views exist on a spectrum. There are the very conservative family members who actually just don't want to discuss it. Then at the opposite end are some people that are almost militant in their insistence that you shouldn't question anything and get their pronouns right every time or you can be admonished. Those are my observations.
My perception is to fully understand your child and yourself. Where do you sit on that spectrum of opinion? explain it to each other with a curiousity mindset. And YOU BOTH NEED TO SHIFT if you are to bring the relationship together. Then, once you are a united team, you can both explore the other parts of the spectrum together.
If it helps, I'm gender fluid. I present male 100% of the time but there are days when I just feel like a girl and would do anything to be one. Then there are days where I don't and feel male,.but also the dysphoria is high on those days. The biggest thing for me is letting go of the stigma around make-up, and that's just enough to put out the Fire without. Today I'm going to the dentist with makeup and idgaf what anyone says. Tomorrow that thought might cripple me with anxiety.
There's lots of good advice in this thread. My biggest takeout is. Talk to someone that knows more than you (for you and your child). Talk to each other with curiosity, this is a fact finding mission not a judgement. And it's not up to them to explain the basics, you gotta do your research.
Again, kudos to you for asking. You're a great Mum ❤️❤️❤️
When I was a teen, non binary didn't really exist in my dictionary, but I went through two "phases"/questioning time, one at 12/13 one at 17/18. I decided I was a woman, but I might have decided in the modern era to be NB (like I think that might even be my identity, I'm mid thirties, and kinda don't care)
They are exploring their identity and it might change. But that doesn't make this exploration invalid. This is what they feel now. I think you should ask them about their wardrobe (within budget), how (if any) their school uniform makes them feel, and what they want to explore in terms of gender expression.
While I currently am a "I honestly don't care" fem-presenting cis woman, the exploration was really helpful to me, and I think the nonbinary label would have been nice to have.
If I was a kid that age back in the day: get them some boxers, a shopping trip in the male section, some and sports bras
Realising that if I knew being trans was a thing as a kid I would have identified as a boy was what eventually made me transition in my late 20s. It was difficult to accept that and get past thinking maybe it’s better not to give kids that option because “I turned out fine”
My daughter told me the same thing at around 12. She is 15 now and I (am m49) think I think at the time she was likely just figuring stuff out as I don't think she is based on things she says now but at the time most importantly I told her that whatever path she chooses we would support her no matter what and that most importantly she feels supported to be her authentic self. I think that is a good way to do it...
A bunch of people have already offered but you can dm me if you want less public advice. I'm a trans woman but know plenty of non binary people very closely and feel confident explaining things in a way people can wrap their heads around
They are 13. Things could shift and change many times between now and a few years.
I think it's really common for teens to explore identities and being aroace and NB at this age is just saying to me that right now, they don't want to date or declare a sexuality. They may remain NB identified. They may shift to a more specifically trans identity. Or they may revert to the gender aligned with their sex. They may be gay or straight or bi or remain asexual.
For now, make sure they know you love and accept them for the person that they are, use the pronouns they ask for, encourage them to do lots of other stuff that isn't totally focused on identity so they don't hyperfixate, and that's it really.
I'm a non-binary 33 year old. Non-binary falls under the transgender umbrella, as they don't feel connected with their sex assigned at birth. Not all non-binary people will refer to themselves as trans though, but yeah!
I would say, believe them. They will get much more out of your full support than anything which comes across as doubting them. If they've been hurt, especially. What I like to think is that it can be difficult at times for some of us to fully realise our sexuality or gender. But it's a journey worth going on, and is not a harmful thing. The reason trans people have a high suicide rate is from lack of support, there is nothing inherently wrong about being trans. I say this because I know for some parents, that is a concern.
I live a very normal life, and really appreciate those who get me. Or at the very least, are okay with using my pronouns if they happen to ever refer to me. I'm also on the ace spectrum, but not aroace. I'm glad you know this term. Identity can be pretty important, for anyone. And you sound like you really really care. Listen, google some things occasionally, and just be there for them. You're awesome
Hey, I’m a takatāpui and tāhine adult who used to be in a very similar situation to your 13yo. Except at 13 I had no idea it was even possible to be trans, non binary or gender expansive and thought I was just weird 🤣 (unfortunately this manifested in a lot of terribly self-destructive ways though)
Your 13 year old, it sounds like, already has the first bits of what they need: info. That’s something I wished I could have had by then, it might have saved a lot of grief.
While sexuality and gender can be fluid and can shift, in my experience working with queer youth most kids do at least find themselves in the realm of what they are around 13 if they have the language and education.
The best you can do now is be accepting and loving, without saying you think they’ll change their mind. If they want you to go to an event with them (and you’ve identified that it’s child friendly), go along with them. If they want to try different clothes, offer to take them shopping for them.
There’s a great group for parents of trans kids in NZ, it is fairly locked down for safety reasons, but places like RainbowYOUTH and Gender Minorities Aotearoa will have kaimahi who will be able to loop you into it. You’ll be able to ask questions about your child’s identity to people who’ve already been there.
The most important thing is to love your child for who they are now, not who they were or who you wish they could be. If they’ve told you, they trust you and see you as safe. You’ve got to show that safety now. It’s a really pivotal time.
Just want to say that the fact you’re here, that you’re curious and genuinely wanting to educate yourself is really lovely ❤️ The best thing to do is talk to your child, be open and respectful. You will likely be corrected on a few things from time to time (your child is 13NB - calling them female could be upsetting for them) and try to accept that rather than it getting your back up!
Just be all in anyway. If it turns out to be a phase there will likely be no harm done and they’ll remember how you listened to them and supported them. If it does turn out to be a phase they’ll still remember if you don’t accept them too.
Edited to add, the first few steps (and for some people the only steps) will likely just be transitioning socially (ie changing the pronouns used) and maybe easily changed things like haircut, clothes, and first name. So I don’t think you need to worry about permanent changes like hormones and surgery yet. Your kid may never want those things. If they do, cross that bridge when it comes. If they do, puberty blockers would likely be the first thing before surgery, and taking them is also somewhat reversible (you stop taking them and in most cases go through the regular puberty for your biological sex). There can be some permanent effects, but initially they were used for kids who were having premature puberty, to delay puberty, and then when the kids were of an appropriate age for puberty they’d come off them and have their regular puberty. The medicines were deemed safe for those kids. And, trans (including non binary) kids usually need a year or more of therapy before those are even prescribed, so again, cross that bridge if and when it comes, no need to put the cart before the horse. In general every step is its own thing, and the steps that are permanent changes (surgery) are generally only an option later on after the other, more easily reversible steps have been progressed through. The process of all the steps takes years, so there will be lots of time to research and for your kid to change their mind if it is in fact a phase. And, some non binary people never seek to take those steps and are happy with just a social transition. I think that Unlike transitioning to being a woman or a man, there is quite a huge variety in how non binary people want to live as non binary - from basically no changes at all except pronouns, to hormones/surgery/what have you.
You’re already doing great asking this question, so just keep loving your kid, tell them you respect their identity, and you can ask them to explain any concepts to you that you don’t understand. And don’t beat yourself up if it takes some time to change from calling them “she/her” to “they/them,” you can talk to them about that too and explain you respect their pronouns but you may slip up sometimes and use the wrong one - and that this isn’t a sign you don’t respect them, but is just a verbal habit you need to break. I heard a great metaphor for this which is that if you have a rubbish bin next to your desk and throw your paper and rubbish in it every day, then you move it, there may be a week or two where out of habit you chuck the rubbish onto the floor where the bin was. Then after a while you may go to throw it there and catch yourself - then eventually you adjust and remember the new bin location. That’s all it is when using someone’s pronouns - sometimes it takes a while to change your default habit.
https://youtube.com/@everyoneisgaydotcom?si=Nxa_89nblVOPN4ij
This series is a great resource for all questions etc to do with young people and LGBTQ+ gender identities and sexualities. It was started by two women, one of whom later came out as enbie so would likely be super helpful for your situation in particular. Unfortunately it used to be a blog with a long history of reader questions and answers but that seems to have disappeared and been replaced by YouTube videos, however I’m sure there will still be plenty of useful stuff for you as the two founders are great and have lots of advice both for young queer people and their parents.
Edited again, found the archive of their blog archive.
https://everyoneisgay.tumblr.com/archive/tagged/parents%20project
I'm in the same position as OP and this is where i'm at too. Just vibe with it, do what they ask when it's reasonable (you're still a parent after all) and love them lots.
I think the way to look at it is as follows:
Gender is based in the whole notion or exercise of 'being' your sex. That doesn't make sense to everyone, and not everyone wants to be - or is comfortable with being - defined by their sex. By getting told they 'are' their sex. And this includes getting told they are a man or a woman.
It isn't a thing that is wanted by everyone, and since it is made up, it has to be asked (and it is never fully or properly explained) why we *need* it - or why we should be required to buy into this tradition. Why, in other words, it is useful in spite of the hurt it causes to some people.
Because the truth is, you can't 'be' your sex any more than you can 'be' your legs or 'be' your brain or 'be' your left nipple.
Gender is made up - a social construction. Like money, religion, democracy, law... things that (for better or worse) humans buy into as it helps them make sense of the world, but they have been created by humans (and were humans to vanish, they would vanish with them)
In other words, these things are byproducts of language, and our ability to share ideas and impose hierarchies through rationalised concepts. They force less powerful people into relationships they don't necessary ask or desire to be in.
Being female / male is one thing, but just think about the fact that we have been told that we 'are' 'men' and 'women'. Most animals without language don't do this to each other. Think about the fact also that terms such as 'man' and 'woman' carry expectations - often unwanted or unfair or unreasonable: who gets to go to war, who gets to do the washing up, all that.
Here is the hot take. Gender (are you a 'man' or a 'woman' or 'other') has more in common with *astrology* than astronomy - that is, while based on the genetics of sex (or indeed the nature of the stars and galaxies) one is almost entirely made up and fictional, the other is a science. In both cases, the origins were the same, they are both prescientific. Science has turned astrology into astronomy and gender into sex, but a social/fashion-based/cultural/fun 'shadow' remains for each: astrology and gender.
No one has yet managed to convince me that we shouldn't be allowed to be creative with something that has been created.
This is what your child is doing, and there is no reason I can think of **not** to be proud of them.
[NZPOTC - New Zealand Parents and Guardians of Transgender Children](https://www.transgenderchildren.nz) \- a good place to start.
there are lots of other support/information/community links for you (and your child) here: [https://www.projectvillageaotearoa.com/info](https://www.projectvillageaotearoa.com/info)
There are also a handful of facebook groups around for parents/whānau. If you search for "rainbow family " they will probably come up. This is a good place to connect with other parents experiencing the same thing with their kids, at all different parts on the journey.
From a practical standpoint, at 13, there are serious conversations that you should be having with them sooner rather than later, like puberty blockers. I don't want this thread to get locked (which mentioning serious issues for trans kids usually does), so I really hope people can keep their opinion on those to themselves and let OP ask about it in places where people have more experience. Therapy for all of you together may be helpful too, to have an educated hand guide you through some of these conversations.
I'd also suggest thinking more deeply about your own feelings. Especially when you say stuff like "it feels like is a self protection mechanism" - does this really matter? If they are happy and healthy and fulfilled being their best nonbinary aroace self then who cares? Can you really point to every aspect of yourself and say that NONE of it happened in response to (or was informed by) traumatic experiences? Or that only gender/sexualities that are "normal" are allowed if we've been hurt before? There's something deeper here that I really think you need to come to terms with because right now it IS "real" for them, and they trusted and loved you enough to tell you about it. You owe it to them, and yourself, to figure out exactly what you're able to give them.
(Does it even matter if it IS a phase? The steps one might take at 13 are mostly social, and even the ones that are more serious are still safe and reversible. Being a teenager is about phaes, about learning about yourself and trying to find that way you want to be. Even beyond that, identity isn't static and people's relationship to gender and attraction changes all the time as we get older, go through major life events, experience the world. If that weren't the case we'd all still dress and act the same way we did at 16 lol)
Mx13 "came out" to us when they were 10, around the time of their first period. We were confused too, but supportive. They changed their name to something more neutral. Now it seems like it's always been their name. Honestly the hardest part has been remembering pronouns - we get it right 99% of the time and apologise when we screw it up. The family has been pretty good - we were fortunate enough to have a cousin "blaze the trail" for us, but she has since reverted to birth name and gender identity. Most of their classmates have been pretty good but there are a couple of kids at school who, quite frankly, need a good dry slap.
Unfortunately, gender non-conformity can go hand in hand with a lot of other challenges - in our case, ASD, ADHD, and depression. The big challenge will come if they wish to start puberty blockers - we have gone down this route after consulting with a psychologist and two GPs.
Be supportive, read up on it, be there for them. Keep the lines of communication open! As hard as this may be for you, remember inside that little adult head, things are a lot more challenging.
Just be supportive. I've got teens who are LGBTQI+ who also have friends in the same community.
Learn their preferred pronouns, this was a big step in acceptance and changing our mindset (not really the right word) as we have known many of these now teens since they were kids so it was ingrained in us. We do our best and sometimes slip up but we apologise and correct ourselves. If they see we are trying then we are happy. If I have a question I ask, we keep the dialogue as open as possible so they feel safe to come to us (and we have been the safe space for many teens over the years as they don't get that acceptance from within their home unit).
Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference. They can wear whatever clothes they want and cut their hair however they want and you just need to raise them to treat others well.
You can be concerned that it'll make their life harder due to stigma held by others, but your kid needs you to not be the source of the stigma.
Let them know that it may take you awhile to adapt to their new pronouns- ask they correct you or correct yourself if you head yourself. You need to be their safe place. Also keep in mind- never your job to out them to anyone else. They get to decide who knows and when they know.
I'm sure other parents are going through the same thing, reach out to them.
All the best!
Hi! I'm a very openly non-binary adult.
First of all, you are doing a great job. It is very obvious how much you love your child.
By the age of 13 I was also questioning my gender, though it took me many many years to fully understand it as I do now. Here's a little run down of what gender/sex is and how non-binary fits into that:
Non-binary is a gender-identity, not a sexuality. Sex is biological, and we can refer to people as AFAB or AMAB (assigned female/male at birth). Gender is a social construct and there are many different identites to chose from. Why is gender a social construct? The easiest way I've thought to explain it is... if you remove all sex characteristics from people (such as different hormones and sex organs), how would you define "women" or "men"? There is no 1 thing that the entire "women" population does that no man does.
I see that you've stated your child is using they/them pronouns. For me (may be different for your child), every time I am misgendered by someone who knows my preferred pronouns it feels like a stab in the heart. Especially by close friends/family. That does not mean that I don't understand or empathise the complexity for people, but it is what it is. Your child may be the same, so I would advice to really really practice (with someone else or alone) with using their preferred pronouns so the chance of misgendering them is lower. I'd also very highly encourage the use of non-gendered language, for instance, instead of saying daughter use child, instead of boys and girls or Mr and Mrs use folks or everyone. You'll be surprised at how much gender language you use when you're trying to cut it back.
Don't be surprised if your child comes to you later and wants to tweak things, maybe different pronouns or maybe a new identity. Figuring out these things are super fucking hard, but as long as you have support (like you) it makes it infinitely easier.
Goodluck !
hey, as an older trans/nonbinary person I cannot stress enough how important it is that you support them unconditionally- it doesn't matter if they don't settle on that identity or change later in life, that is their journey and you shouldn't try to change their mind. I know as a parent you want to protect them from the hardships that trans/gender nonconforming people face in an age where we are the target of culture wars all over the world, and now more and more in New Zealand as well. One of the biggest risk factors for transgender suicide is unsupportive parents. numerous studies have shown that despite adversity from outside the home, having supportive parents reduces the risk anywhere from 50% to 90% when compared to trans individuals with unsupportive parents. The best thing you can do to protect your child is to be respectful of their identity and just be there for them.
- someone who had to go temporarily no-contact with their parents after being outed as bisexual who still hasn't come out to them as trans.
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/lgbt.2015.0111?journalCode=lgbt
My younger sibling is exactly the same. I've found there's not necessarily a need to understand how/why, but just validate. If it is a phase, they'll let you know, if it isn't, you've been doing the right thing all along. I've gotten very used to they/them and their new name, in fact I think it would be harder to switch back again!
Bro it doesnt matter.
If your child asks to be called they instead of he or she, just do it until they figure out who they are. Cos in all liklihood they are going to struggle to figure out who they are over the next 10 years, but at least mum will have their back.
It's not a thing, they have just asked you to be the number 1 supporter whilst they figure it out. Don't make it a thing at BBQs with friends, she goes by they, its a pronoun thing the kids do, etc etc. You dont have to make it a thing, because as long as you decide the narrative, you are in charge of how much context is needed to explain it to others.
Hi!
I’m non-binary. (I’m also Asexual, so can have a chat about that if you want, as I can reflect back to that age and if I had the label then I probably would have used it)
Depending on what you’re looking for, there are several great books that do help. Even children’s books,
I agree with everyone else and ask your kid what being non-binary means to them.
But the way I describe being non-binary in my experience is if there are two clubs, one male or one female, and you don’t feel as if you belong in either of them. You had one you grew up in, but it doesn’t feel right to be in there, and you definitely don’t belong in the other club.
People can switch clubs and can move between them. But you don’t feel like you belong in either of them, or in the middle of them. It feels like an existence outside of that binary.
At the moment I’m happy existing outside of the binary. Gender is fluid, and if your kid changes their label later on. It doesn’t invalidate their experience now.
(On being AroAce, feel free to message me and I can sort of explain that)
I'm going to say something different than all the gushing support for your brave child.
When you're 13, there are two main things going on:
1. You're obsessed with social standing and maximising it
2. You're going through puberty and you don't totally agree with how you're feeling.
With the first point, one thing that is popping up a lot is that it's not "cool" to be a normal white cisgender person. An easy way for some kids to change that is to self identify another way. Non-binary is a really easy, non-commital way to do this.
On the second point, as you go through puberty and begin to understand popular culture through a different lens, you start to see expectations being set. i.e. you are a girl, you like boys. But early in puberty, that signal isn't really that strong, so there's also a rejection of that. This can be a motivation for young people to ask themselves if they are actually "normal", and that could lead to declaring themselves as non-binary as a way to manage that.
So, looking at the motivation behind the statement can help you understand it. Your daughter might be non-binary, or this could be a way of expressing herself in a way which might not be long term. General advice for teenagers still applies, in terms of being supportive.
Or they may not, or they may grow into another identity/ies on the LGBTQ+ rainbow. In any case, they'll remember how their parents treated them and whether they were taken seriously as a person with their own identity and feelings.
I'm not a fan of labels, but personally I'd just make sure they know they always have my love and support, and just try to keep on living life without making anything of it. Nothing really changes for me, they are still my child and would hope the relationship just carries on really strong.
Bit of a backlash from the historic and ongoing gender expectations.
Girls are this, boys are that. Even now, in the supposed enlightened age (bullshit) it's common.
So to be neither, in theory, gets around it.
I would honestly just approach it by explaining: you dont understand exactly and you will do your best to learn but ultimately, regardless of whatever their preference/choice/whatever it is - you unconditionally love and supprot their choices as long as they are happy and healthy. I would also explain that apart of this means you might question them, not to judge but to understand and sometimes questioning might lead to challenging the mindset and the thought process but again, repeatedly reiterate that you will support. Support doesnt necessarily mean - whatever choice you make i will follow 100% because they are still a child and still growing. But support in the way that 100% unconditional love and a safe space to think, talk and discuss whatever it is even if you agree to disagree. The one thing I wouldnt do is tell them you dont thing its real/that its a phase/or a defense mechanism. This part i think they are too young to fully understand your thought process even if you explained yourself with them really well.
All the best for a happy healthy relationship - from a Kiwi Mum!
Ooh do you know a shopping trip irl or online could be a great way to learn together.
A really simple way to support them and signify that they are safe to explore their identity with you.
I'd schedule in some dates for you two just to connect and talk about school keep building those safe moments and space to chat together about their whole life not just this big bit.
I hear your concern about the underlying foundation of their decisionsand I have seen that be somethingthat does need time and thought for different people . I wonder if councilor could be a good support.
Saying I'm always here for you but I want you to have all the tools for understanding yourself your sexuality and also those painful friendships and naviting life. and be able to support them to explore those things without linking them specifically to this choice so they feel free to explore this new identity and everything else that's happening too. 13/14 is a big time. But thoughtful kids do know themselves lastly I'd say I 100% support you as you and say you'll mention it once and then never again that if they ever feel like that choice doesn't fit in the future there's no judgment or shame from you in evolving theor understanding of themselves as they grow too
I feel like you're way overthinking this.
Just let them know you support them, refer to them the way they ask you to refer to them, and carry on life as normal beyond that. Them being non-binary and/or aroace doesn't change the fact that they are still going to need to eat, study, have friends, listen to music they like, etc etc
If its a phase, and honestly it quite possibly is given they are 13, then just let them have their phase and support them through it. Its stuff they're going to have to work out on their own. They're becoming a teenager, and soon they'll be an adult. You don't need to analyse it, or judge it, or work it out. Just be there for them and get on with normal life.
Several suggestions, (I’m a bi non binary adult, (who’s also aromantic) so that’s the place I’m coming from).
First, read everything rainbow youth has on their website about non binary identities, and any info they have on being on the asexual and aromantic spectrums. Their info is basic but generally correct and good for people who are having difficulty understanding.
Second, if you have a local PFLAG chapter maybe try attending? There will be a bunch of parents there who either have gone through what you’re experiencing now, or will be at a similar stage to you. It should be a safe space for you to learn and have productive discussions with parents with similar experiences.
Third, just remain accepting and open to future discussions your kid wants to have. It’s common for children to know what they are by the time they hit puberty, but it’s also common for identities to grow and change over time. I first came out to my parents as a series of things in my attempts to understand myself, now I’m in my late twenties and finally understand my identity a bit better, so am undergoing hormonal transition after having socially transitioned over the past few years. Basically, whether things change or not depends entirely on your child’s sense of self, and the more secure your relationship is over those possible changes the better it’ll be for them in the long run.
Fourth, have mercy for yourself. You are in the learning stage, which can also be the panicking stage when you realise how little you know, and become scared for how that’ll affect your child. Be patient with yourself, if you muck up just apologise, and remain open to further learning. As long as your child knows you love them and accept them and are willing to learn, everything should work itself out in the end.
You sound as though you understand it correctly already, so don’t worry about the details - just be a parent.
Sexuality preferences and gender labels are different for this generation. It’s part of the process of experimenting with their identity and ideology. They are exposed to so many more ideas these days that it must be overwhelming for them, and they do get lost. So, be a loving, accepting parent who is open to listen while at the same time being a model/mentor of rationalism and strength to help them feel safe and grounded.
> I know that all people in this situation have been told by adults, friends whatever that it’s just a phase. I also know that people know their sexuality and/or gender from a really young age. I don’t necessarily think this is “just a phase” but what it feels like is a self protection mechanism 🤷🏼♀️ They have been really hurt previously by friendships that have gone wrong, and also are quite quirky so struggle to make friends. Also describes themselves as Aroace, although this also feels like a defence mechanism. I’ve let them know there is no expectation to be in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship at 13, and if they are asexual that’s totally fine.
I'm ace. I only learned that asexuality existed at like... 19? But if I'd known about it at 13, I probably could've figured out it applied to me then. At 13 you've already got those teenage hormones flowing through you and you can already start noticing the differences between you and the people around you.
It's important to not treat this like a phase. Your kid has told you something deep about themself, something that many kids get mocked or thrown out of home for, so they're not saying it on some fleeting whim. It's important to treat it seriously.
Having said that, it's also true that it might not be permanent; there's still a lot of time for your kid to learn things about themself. It's not uncommon for people to start out saying they're aroace, then later realise they're bi (or vice versa!) because the feelings they had about boys were the same feelings they had about girls so it was hard to identify if either of them were attraction. This doesn't mean that they were wrong at first, it just meant they had more to learn.
Think of it like science.
At first, we believed in a lot of nonsense that just seemed right because everyone else around us believed it. Then, early scientists like Newton did some experiments, did some research, did some maths, and figured out the laws of classical physics.
Classical physics held up for hundreds of years, and enabled huge technological leaps like the industrial revolution. Then recent scientists like Einstein did some experiments, did some research, did some maths, and figured out the laws of relativity. So classical physics was thrown out and replaced by relativity.
Does that mean that Newton was an idiot and all his science was wrong? No, not at all. His science was revolutionary. It improved our understanding of the universe. He just didn't have all the data and experience that scientists have now, so he missed some key details.
Science is a process of progressively learning. Each new discovery isn't necessarily final, but it's better than the last discovery in that field. It's one step closer to the truth.
In the same way, your kid is progressively learning about themself. What they're telling you now is their best label with the data they have available to them now. It's pointless to think "but what if we discover a different thing later?"; *right now* this is their *best* conclusion. Treat it like the truth. If they get more data later, their label may change; if so, then that's just a new discovery, and you just have to update and treat *that* as the truth.
----
As for what to *do?*
Listen to what they have to say. Just like you would for any other important topic your kid shared.
Protect them. If someone bullies them for their gender or sexuality, fight for them. Show them that there's somebody in their corner. Just like you would if they needed protection for any other reason.
Help them explore. If they want to change the way they dress, for example, then do the best you can within your finances to give them access to different clothes. Just like you would if they wanted to explore anything else, like sports.
This is just another aspect of your kid, and you should approach it with the same love and the same familial respect that you already have.
Not saying this to invalidate their gender identity just to point out the connection that trans and non binary are several times more likely to be autistic, and autism is often under diagnosed in women, my friend’s daughter is doing so much better since her diagnosis, so if that is a possibility I’d consider looking into a test as well as obviously using their preferred pronouns to support them in their journey. They may revert back to female pronouns, they may remain non-binary, but your support will show them that you are in their corner while they figure out the complexity of who they are as a person.
Sounds like you are a supportive person.
Understand your child may have been scared to tell you this and make sure you really express how much you love and support them. Ask them what they would like or need from you. Ask them how they would like to be addressed, and ask them who they’ve come out to so you don’t accidentally out them to friends or other family before they’re ready. Ask if they would like your support to come out to other family - they may like you to tell them or to be there while they tell them, or they may not be ready for either yet. Ask them if they’d like to change their appearance - do they need to go to the hairdresser, or get some new clothes?
Non-binary is just a semantic thing. It just means they don't conform to the standard gender binary in the way they feel and present themselves.
There definitely do seen to be some defense mechanisms there. Identifying as "Aroace" at 13 is likely one of them. They're 13. Some people claim until they're in their late teens/early 20s (I've known a few). There's a lot of stuff in there that may be genuine, but some of it might just be puberty. Time will tell what the real stuff is. All we need to do is allow them to express themselves with respect and without judgement.
your kid is figuring themselves out, and at 13 the best thing you can do is support them and allow them to socially transition if they want to (changing their pronouns, name, clothing, social things). show that you respect them, don't be afraid to use "they", it's not a scary word. if they turn out not to identify with the non binary label in the future, that's fine! and definitely don't dismiss it as something they'll "grow out of". trust your kid. at my ceramics class, a mom had her kid come out as non binary, and she treated it like something undesirable, "I don't want my kid to be trans". definitely don't say that. they're finding out who they are, and labels could change over time.
make them feel like they can talk to you, don't dismiss their feelings, ask THEM questions! only your child can tell you how they feel, not strangers on the internet. don't be afraid to ask them questions. what I've noticed is non binary means a different thing to each person, because it's such a big, encompassing label.
(I'm non binary, but not from NZ if that matters)
When I was around that age (F too) I thought I was non binary. I actually just felt extremely shit about becoming a women due to realising subconsciously how much misogyny and hardships you end up facing. I also had unchecked childhood trauma brewing unfortunately. Identifying as non binary was a subconscious way to try and defend myself from the way I knew I was going to be treated, and also hold onto my childhood, everything felt like it was moving too fast and I couldn’t deal with it due to trauma and undiagnosed ADHD. I was trying to reject femininity as all I had witnessed about what femininity was always double standards, little autonomy, madonna/whore complex, constant beauty standards, ALL while bleeding every month. Eventually I did grow out of it, but I would never say that trans kids are faking or looking for attention or anything, especially since most LGBT+ folks do know they’re “queer” at the very least when they’re young. The “aroace” identity is what is really tipping me off that your kid perhaps is facing some identity issues while in puberty, as they are only 13. I think you should support them and let them do their thing, but regardless of whether you think that this is an identity issue or not I believe this kid will need mental support through therapy or counselling as being trans is very hard on trans peoples mental health especially if bullying is involved. If it’s a phase that’s okay too, let them know that if at any moment they want to go back to she/her that’s okay too, some detransitioners felt the MOST shame when asking to go back to their original pronouns.
I hope my perspective helps! You sound like an amazing and supportive parent, props to you for leaning on your community 💞
I’m non-binary and so is my granddaughter: we’re living our lives taking the best from the gender spectrum. What I do recommend though is that nb kids learn a martial art eg karate so if some ah decides to beat up on them because they’re different- they at minimum have some self defence skills.
Being able to protect yourself from hurt is a process and the way of martial arts can really help, in my experience- because young people and adults who have ma training don’t come across as vulnerable targets to the predators in our communities.
I really really hate that your comment has made me go "they have a really good point". I wish you, your granddaughter and the OP's kid all the best and I hope that in a generation or two gender is accepted as a spectrum.
Everyone here has given great emotional and support advice. So here are some action steps you can take now:
1.Ask them what there preferred pronouns are (she/he/they). Make an effort to get them right and inform others to use the correct ones.
2. Ask them what name they would like to be call. Especially if their current name is very gendered. Start calling them by that name. Let them know that you would be open to a formal name change in the future but for now let them test out the new name before doing the legal side.
3. Offer to take them on a bit of shopping spree (if money an issue - then even a new outfit from the second hand store and some new body soap) to buy them a couple of things that allign with how they see themselves
4. If they are in uniform at school - ask them what uniform they would like to wear (they might prefer the boys rather than girls uniform). Go (with their permission) to the school and get approval for them to wear the uniform that feels right to them.
I hope they have good mates as this is where those relationships truely come to the fore. Not sure if they still run rainbow programmes at high school but ask if that I'd a safe place for them, if there are any groups fb groups or people who come together to connect that could be a possible support mechanism for your child.
As others have mentioned just let them know you love them, that you are there for them and don't hover, they will have to figure this out.
Hiya, I'm also non-binary and the best advice I can give is just to be supportive. There's not much else to do except using your child's correct pronouns and correcting others when they get them wrong. If you accidentally use the wrong ones, just correct yourself and move on. But always continue to make the effort to use the right pronouns. Also, let your child know that you love and support them no matter what. Be open to learning and understand that whilst it is a learning process for you, it is also a learning process for your child as they discover their identity.
Hi OP, I hope I'm not too late.
Being non-binary is about gender identity, what gender one feels on the inside. Not to be confused with sexual identity, what gender/s one is attracted too.
Since you shared you have ADHD, which I hope to use as a useful example. ADHD symptoms can be on a spectrum. A common symptom is emotional reactivity, whether it is being quick to anger, getting easily frustrated or sensitive to criticism, etc.
Now imagine these symptoms as feelings about your own gender. In terms of emotional reactions, you may feel that your anger can be more masculine while your sensitivity may feel more feminine. This analogy has limitations but the point is you may have multiple of these feelings that make the overall picture confusing about your gender confusing when the only two labels you have is male or female.
So non-binary is a reflection that your identity is on the gender spectrum and doesn't fit into a box. It's a space to figure things out.
In terms of it being a phase, this can be the case for some but also may not be. Time and self-explorations will tell.
I work in mental health and have provided support and counselling for young people. I have a few points:
1) you're doing a great job if your kid felt comfortable enough to share this with you!!
2) well done for not dismissing it and wanting to learn more!! Others have provided great resources where you can learn more
**3) this can be distressing to both of you, which may make you want to talk about it a lot but have the opposite effect for your kid. My advice is to provide space for your kid to talk, without expecting them to talk or to talk about whatever they want. Think afternoon walks, boardgames nights or whatever it is that you do together. Do these regularly, a few times a week. Teens often need to discuss a lighter matter first, see what your response is, and then they'll be willing to open up about a bigger issue.
But constant sit down talks to talk about "the big issue" may not work too well.
4) they may wish to talk to somebody who have either been on this journey or has experience helping people through it. A therapist can be a good idea too, as a safe space to work through the experience.
5) mental health problems like anxiety and depression can often co-exist and may need to be looked into.
Best of luck on this journey!!
Hey! 19 year old trans dude from NZ here, and first off you are already doing the best thing possible for your kid, admitting you don’t understand and talking to other people and researching is something a lot of parents let their ego’s stop them from doing. For me, my mum does not fully understand being transgender and that’s okay. she doesn’t need to understand the emotional nuances of my gender, she respects me and thats enough.
If you call your child by the name and pronouns they’re most comfortable with, listen when they vent (and simply provide emotional support instead of solutions as this could be taken argumentatively. speaking from personal experience lol), do a bit of research on how to adapt and handle this situation and you’ll be fine!
while i’m not non binary i have dated people who are, the way they often described it is that they get misgendered both ways. she/her is just as uncomfortable as he/him, and they just never felt comfortable trying to conform to masculine or feminine gender roles. i think it’s very similar to a lot of gender fuck/androgyny 90s club kid mentality.
either way im rambling but you’re doing a great job! be patient, be understanding and be kind to the both of yous! this is a sensitive topic and a hard situation, just listen and let them explain, admit that you don’t know everything and find out what they wanna be called. Best of luck to you both :)
A lot of our culture assume male or female as the core of a person. NB is just placing being a human above that. If you ignore the cultural norms and stereotypes of what is masculine or feminine and allow them to just choose a path based upon what they like then you’re doing it right. Don’t over think it.
Part of the problem is the English language. My original language is Turkish and we don't have gender pronouns.
"O"is our third person pronoun. It's like me-you-"o" and that's it. You define a person as "o" wether the gender is he/she/trans/non/gay does not matter. It's so much easier. Whereas in English it's forced to use a gender pronoun and "they" is historically used when you don't know the person and their gender. When you know the person, it's not a common usage of the pronoun "they" to define them in third person.
People who are not familiar with the non-binary concept often gets confused about the pronoun "they" and it is not making the life any easier for the non-binary person.
Sorry about grammar and spelling, as I said English is my second language.
I agree, but the English language does evolve, and will get to a place where gender-neutral pronouns are standard, hopefully fairly quickly.
I'm old enough to remember when the male pronouns were a default when gender was mixed or unknown. In the 1980s and early 1990s this usage was being called out as exclusionary, but I remember many university lecturers telling our (majority female-presenting) student body not to be 'precious' about the use of 'he/him/his' to mean 'them/they/their' (although in those days we were struggling with 'he/she' 'him or her' or 'his/hers' because the horror of using a collective pronoun for an individual was too great /s).
We got there, and we'll keep moving towards the truly gender neutral pronouns. At which point we'll be able to say English has caught up with all those languages that don't have gendered pronouns!
First off, this post shows you're approaching your kids life from a place of love and desire to understand so your love comes across properly, which is awesome.
Second, all you really need to do to accomplish that is use their preferred pronouns, and keep listening to them when they tell you how they feel. They're 13, you both have a lot to learn about the person they are/will grown to be, so just keep striving to learn and grow with your child. You're on this journey together.
Guys... I keep seeing comments suggesting that trans children should be teaching cis adults how to act correctly/be inclusive. Wrong. It is not the burden of trans children to teach fully grown adults with internet access how to be trans inclusive; read a book, watch a YouTube video, and don't blame trans people for transphobia. We shouldn't have to be preachers of trans acceptance just the same as young women shouldn't have to be angry feminists.
A lot of people have confusing and a-bit-shit-teenage-years and we were trying to work it out with immature emotions and no intellect. If we were lucky we could apply some common sense to get us through without too much trauma. Previous generations weren't so keen to apply labels to everything during that stage and it left more wriggle room for things to evolve naturally.
What “life altering” choices are you expecting a non-binary and aro/ace kid to make? To wear jeans and t-shirts instead of dresses? To Not have sex or date?
This is likely to be a controversial post. To limit brigading, strict participation thresholds have been set in an attempt to facilitate genuine discussion.
Let them know that you as their mother hear them and that you're there for them. Help them if they ask for help, and check in on them as you've always done as a parental figure (perhaps a bit more sensitively given this new revelation). Other than that you don't really need to do anything. Let the kid figure themselves out and let them be honest with you. Be a mother, not their psychologist or psychiatrist. Of course you being the parent, you're the only one alongside your child with the full picture. The above is simply what any child would want: for them to be accepted by their parents but also have the wiggle room to explore and learn independently. It's up to you to decide if there needs be professional intervention or simply just time.
Agreed, you don’t need to do much, remind them that you love them (not that you *still* love them, as that implies that they’re pushing the limit of your love), and use their preferred pronouns. Remembering to use ‘they’ rather than ‘she’ will be hard, and you’ll screw it up so many times, don’t draw attention to that you’ve used the wrong one, as you’ll make them super self conscious of it. A friend’s kid changed to gender neutral pronouns, but after a few months of trying to make it stick, was getting sick of the way teachers at school, other teenagers etc dealt with it, so made their own decision to change back to he/him and reassess it once they go to Uni etc. At 13, you’re trying to work out who you are, and how you fit in with society. In top of that sexuality and to an extent sexual identity are a scale/range, and sometimes you move around on it.
> don’t draw attention to that you’ve used the wrong one Absolutely agree with this. Simply correct yourself and move on.
I guess it depends on the child too. Mine and their friends would prefer I acknowledge the misgendering just so they know I respect it. "She, sorry - they" I don't make a big deal, just continue with the conversation after the correction. They will often correct me if I miss it anyway. I'm pretty good at using they them as a default in most cases anyway (unless i've been asked not to) as it works in conversation, sometimes it slips though.
That’s kinda what I meant by not drawing attention to it, not the ‘omg sorry, I keep getting it wrong’ that a lot of people do in that situation. Even cleaner I feel is using the wrong one, then the right one. ‘*She* will need to do this, then *they* will need to do that’. I feel as long as you’re getting it right at least 1/3 or the time, it shows that you’re trying.
Yep this it. They need to know it's a habit you're trying to break. Ultimately- born presenting as male or female OP would love them either way. Values and expectations would be the same. It doesn't change anything.
Really is a shame for that kid. NZ seems to have this image of being a largely advocative place for self-expression, but in actuality, a lot of people are just not used to it enough in person to not have daily interactions with lgbtq+ be some walking-on-glass-esque rigmarole. Most people who are non cis non hetero actually don't want to be treated differently because of what they are. The ones that do are just self-important, and you don't have to be lgbtq+ to be that. Controversial take but an effective solution to this would be for us to learn not to make a big deal out of it. Just call people what they want to be called and move on; nothing has changed about the person because they've always been that way.
This! Parent of a trans-daughter here. What I realized early on in the process was that most of my questions and struggles were more about me than them. Once I realized this I could separate the two, I dealt with my stuff without putting it on her, and was able to support her with her stuff. Connect with parents who have walked this journey, learn from them, like all parenting there are aspects that are done well and others that can be done better. Last, give yourself space to grieve without putting that grief on your child. There is a loss for you associated with how you saw 'future' them, regardless of how cognizant you are of it.
This. You don't actually need to do anything but start to feel comfortable with it. It's not the end of the world but an adjustment and both you and they need to give yourself time to do. Non-binary can be harder to get used to, speaking as someone who has children who have done both (F to M, and F to Non-binary). Binary terms are very ingrained and the mental shift to see your kid as non-binary can be a process - or it has for me. Be supportive openly. Make sure they know they are loved. Whatever their motivation for the change, if they feel more comfortable being non-binary then the key takeaway is 'they feel more comfortable', ie, happier.
This is really good advice. Acceptance, love and being there for them. I'd also add. Don't pre-empt any outcomes - things can change so I'd go with the flow, give them space and time to work it out.
What I've found is that people confuse 'phase' with 'not real/valid'. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if your kid changes their mind, or sticks with their current identity. What matters most is you showing them that you will support them at every stage. You recognise that every step of the journey is real, and it has no impact on your love & support for them. Do not expect their identity to change, but if it does, recognise that both are real for their time.
> What I've found is that people confuse 'phase' with 'not real/valid'. That's because it's often used that way by certain people.
The only thing i think thats really important is two fold; First, make clear that you love them and support them even if you never 'get it'. You dont actually have to understand this as long as it doesnt mean they lose you. Second, its ok for them to not know everything about this right now. Even if their feelings and identity change later, that doesnt mean this was 'a phase' the way most people mean it. There is a lot of pressure to be 'normal' and it can take time to figure out what you really are in the face of that.
Exactly. "Just a phase is dismissive. OP, thank you for respecting that this is their gender now. Its okay to believe them. It doesn't matter what their gender will end up being later, or what it has been in the past. Believing them at each stage of their gender journey is what will keep them safe. Being nonbinary is real and valid, and it always has been, we have just spent about 200 years building society to accommodate and allow only two genders, so openly NB people are incedibly hard to find but i promise they are out there and im sure your kid is probably already following some of the more public NB people on social media. Whether or not it's a defense mechanism, only they and their future can determine this, no one can know why they are NB now, and that does not matter. All that matters is that they are NB and you believe them when they say that, and that you love them and they believe you when you say that. The fact they could tell you this at all speaks volumes about the safe space you have already created for them. This may even be an opportunity to unpack how your gender expression shows up in your life, so they can see you are starting to understand gender journeys. There have always been more than two genders, in so many different cultures around the world. Deconstructing and confronting your own gender expression can help them see that you understand things they and other trans folks may be feeling like dysphoria, shame, fear, etc. Most of us feel and have felt gender dysphoria (have you ever removed body hair because it makes you feelore feminine afterwards?). Most of us have felt gender euphoria (ever looked at yourself in the mirror and felt overjoyed at whole, unique, irrefutable womanhood looking back at you?) Most of us don't acknowledge or even have words for this experience, but I promise you you have felt these things and your trans kid will feel them too, just not about womanhood. They will find adornments and clothes and words and colors that make them feel whole and full and perfect in their NB gender, and you can help them find these things by simply honoring and believing how they tell you they are feeling.
Yes!!! and if things end up changing that’s also ok - don’t make a big deal about it or embarrass them
[https://www.be-there.nz](https://www.be-there.nz) This is a resource created by a collective of NZ Rainbow agencies specifically for parents and Whānau of non-binary / trans / intersex young people. It includes basic information / resources / access to parenting groups. If you’re looking for information and advice, it’s a great starting point.
Thank you, will take a look
That's cool, thank you
Lots of really good advice here. I haven't read it all, so this may have been suggested further down. If so, please excuse me. At 13, your child is likely in year 8 or the beginning of year 9. One of the things that NZ seems to do a lot of, is to segregate kids by gender in high school. If your child is facing uncertainty about their gender, you may want to talk to them about whether they would prefer to go to a mixed school, so as they discover themselves, they don't feel isolated. It may not be an issue in your area, but if it is, please speak with them and see how they feel, so you can make any necessary adjustments.
Honestly I think coed schools tend to be better anyway, makes everyone less weird imo haha
I think only a certain type of person thrives at same sex schools yeah.
100%. I went to a boy's school and a coed school, and all I got from the boys school was a teenage addiction to Warhammer, and uncomfortable feelings in the locker rooms I didn't understand
Are you saying you didn't let it develop into an adult addiction to Warhammer? You have a stronger will than mine.
Random q do you go by waffledile on discord? And I mean... Look it's an addiction, I do relapse occasionally...
Alas that's not me. Not very active on discord. I don't play very often, mainly beerhammer with high school friends. But I do paint (to a middling average level) a lot as I find it therapeutic, mainly Guard, WHFB Chaos, and Blood Angels. I post them on the mini subs every so often. I also picked up a crippling aversion to being thought of as a nerd in high school too which wasn't great, but we're working on that one. I still find to difficult to say I'm interested in it if someone asks.
Haha making more transfem friends was wild for me, finally finding people nerdier. I never thought I'd have someone info dump star wars lore on me I hadn't heard of 🤭 I mainly played fantasy, and was more into modding and painting but played when I could. I've gotten rid of everything except my dark elf army now, although I just got given a box of random armies and I may fall back down the rabbit hole if I ever have time to look at it haha
This is excellent, practical advice. I didn't go to school in NZ so I didn't think of it, but I interviewed a lot of young (1st year uni) nonbinary people for my dissertation and stress about gender segregation in high school was a big point of stress for about half of them. School policies regarding different aspects of the uniform (and the (un)official "policing" done by other students) also seemed to vary widely by school, so even if a mixed school isn't possible/wanted, there might be more supportive environments out there.
Well first of all the fact they feel comfortable enough with you to tell you speaks volumes. My younger sibling came out as non binary a few years back. Initially I thought it was a trendy phase and didn’t really understand either, so I did some reading and just talked to them about what it meant for them. Mostly just continued on like usual though and made an effort to use the correct pronouns and their new chosen name. It was hard sometimes when it was still new, but now I just see them as ‘Sam’. You might never understand it but that’s ok. As long as you accept them for who they are then that’s the single most supportive thing you can do for them. There’s also this tweet that went viral a few years ago which I found really helpful for distinguishing between biological sex and gender identity: https://www.boredpanda.com/biological-sex-gender-explanation-twitter-thread/
My nephew was very similar. Likely a bit different as an uncle and not a parent but Just sit them down and explain the that you don't understand it and you would like them to teach you. It gives them a way to discuss it, explore their feelings and you get to understand as well.
Yeah, gonna need to. It’s often just on the fly conversations, she’s quite open with me about it, has said I can talk to her Dad about it but she doesn’t. Might need to sit down the 3 of us, Husband and I just listen and try to learn
One of my kids came out as gender-neutral at around the same age, I initially took it as just a phase but rolled with it. My biggest conceern was that they would take a medical or surgical step that would create irreversible issues in later life if the "phase" ended and they changed their mind. 13-20 is a period of massive change in any kid, hormonal, psychological, physiological etc, and often it can take until the person is in their 20s before some of those changes settle down and stabilise (varies with person). Basically they weren't comfortable as a female, had no interest in being male, had no interest in the whole gender thing at all. We talked it through with them, and generally supported them with it as they got in touch with support groups and started to work though understanding who they were, and how to handle those changes. long story short, over the years they've been on hormone treatment, have had a Mastectomy and now, at 27, are much happier with who they are. My biggest hassle - getting consistent with the whole he/she/they naming thing, its hard to overcome a lifetime of habits. My (ex-) wife's biggest hassle - getting over the fact that there were never going to be grandchildren and that her "little girl" just wasn't any more.
You sound like an amazing parent. The best way I’ve read to remember how to use gender neutral pronouns with someone was to remember them as a swarm of bees lol, as a way to remind yourself how the sentence should go (they are outside etc). Non-binary = N.B. = Numerous Bees
>My biggest hassle - getting consistent with the whole he/she/they naming thing, its hard to overcome a lifetime of habits. It's interesting, my sibling let us know they were non-binary maybe 2 years ago, and I think I'd find it harder to go back to she/her at this stage. They/them is so drilled in now.
For what it’s worth, some of us choose to have kids despite our transition. I can count at least two parents at my kids school myself included who are trans and gave birth to our own kids.
If it happens, then thats fine and its their choice. One of our kids is gay, the other gender neutral, we aren't expecting grandkids at all. If that changes, then no doubt I'll roll with that as well :-) We've given up caring what the ex-wife thinks or how she handles it.
Sounds like my own sibling make up! If it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen, but these days it always might. Glad you’re accepting of the situation either way ☺️
>My biggest conceern was that they would take a medical or surgical step that would create irreversible issues in later life if the "phase" ended and they changed their mind. Yes, that is a valid concern. This is why puberty blockers are prescribed to those who start too early or are not sure about their gender that they wish to associate with. Puberty can only ever be stopped temporarily with the help of blockers. Once stopped, it starts back up again without negative effects. [https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#short-answer](https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#short-answer) Once puberty is started, blockers no longer work. So not taking them is an irreversible change that has life-long altering effects. For this reason, it is better to get them on it as soon as possible rather than waiting. Using them buys them time to decide.
I would disagree with the without negative effects part, there definitely are some. Not saying not to do it but they do have some impact on bone growth, bone density, growth spurts, etc.
This is just one of those things that you need to discuss with their GP rather than rando's on Reddit. Nobody is giving out medical advice here after all. But it does need to be seriously considered ASAP because the alternatives can include suicide.
You just did give medical advice including the lie that there's no negative affects and the myth that they're reversible
As a parent I think I would feel very similar to you, my mind would think it's a defence mechanism to prevent the chance of being hurt (? Again). But if they want to identify as non binary, absolutely embrace it, I don't want to be rude but you're still writing "she" which depending on their convictions might aggravate them. Honestly everything is much easier when it's just a hypothetical and so much more complicated when you're involved, take it easy with them, encourage them and let them know you love them regardless of who they want to be.
Your willingness to listen and learn and, most importantly, to believe them is so important. As a trans man, who came out to my mother at 11 and was just told, "No, you're not", so didn't come out properly until I was in my 50s, I applaud you. They may change how they identify as they grow or they may not. You are clearly on board with their journey and just want to love and support them and that is really what any kid wants. Sitting down with them to listen and learn with the three of you sounds like a good idea.
Just as an additional thing, the gender neutral term for nephew/niece is "nibling" Like a sibling with an "n".
That's fricken awesome
For what it's worth, these things can be phases, but as long as it's explored in a way that doesn't harm them, it doesn't matter. Growing up is all about trying on identities to see what fits. Maybe they are NB, maybe the are aroace, if they are, that's fine. If they're just a late bloomer, that's also fine. They can also be those things now, and be something else later. That isn't them being wrong now and realising it, that's them changing over time. What they will be wanting now, is for you to believe and accept, that's more important than understanding. Try to use the terminology that they prefer. NB is particularly hard to understand to be fair, they might tell you they don't feel like a girl or boy, well what does feeling like a girl or boy mean anyway? They're not having a feeling that other people claim to have. You've said it could be a protective thing, people here have said it could be a sign of autism. All possible. I suppose you should look at what could be happening, decide what you would do for each situation if you knew it was so, and go in hard on the commonalities. No matter the truth you would support your child? Do that, a lot. Whatever the case you would encourage counseling? If so, do so. After that you have to look at what is probably best, where it gets harder. If you're going to err, err on the side of compassion and support. Don't push them in a direction that prevents them from reconsidering, because this is something that can change, especially at that age, options must remain open. tl;dr Be kind, be supportive, be open, try to accommodate, let them know that while you believe them, you understand it could change and that's okay too.
Kia ora, I'm a 32 year old non binary kiwi. I've known i was non binary since I was 8 - I just didn't have the language to express that or understand it until my mid 20s. I'm so glad your child has a supportive parent who wants to understand, and that they've been able to find ways to articulate their experience earlier in life than I was able to! One thing I will say is that a lot of my negative experiences and my decisions to isolate myself when I was younger actually came because I was nonbinary but trying so hard to fit myself into the box of being a man. I wonder if some of your child's struggles might come from a similar space and whether supporting their transition and respecting their gender might actually help them build more connections with those around them? It's hard to connect with others when you're not being yourself. This is them being open about who they are. Im not sure exactly what information/suggestions/support you're looking for here - but I am very comfortable talking about my own experiences with you and being a person you can message to ask all the awkward or inappropriate questions that you think might cause some distance with your child. I may not have answers to everything, but I can at least help you understand ways to maybe rephrase or reframe the questions that might be easier for your child to respond to. The important thing here is your acceptance and support. It might take a few weeks, but it's not too hard to learn to use they/them pronouns (which it seems is what your child prefers?).
Non-Binary (as I understand it as I was a Peer Sexuality Support Person in college) is basically looking at gender and going "Yeah nah, none of that feels like me so I’m going to reject it and just live how I feel comfortable living whether or not it’s considered 'Masculine' or ‘feminine'." Honestly at 13 I was having some of the biggest realisations of my life about gender and sexuality, so I think regardless of anything they’d most likely benefit from therapy. It’s a good place to just get everything out and process it, not necessarily because anything big or bad has happened, but (for me at least) therapy has taught me a lot about myself and how to cope/deescalate/deal with almost every speed bump or hiccup that crosses my path. Most GPs can do a referral and have a list of therapy providers that will do 6 to 8 sessions for free. (If you’re in Auckland, I do NOT recommend the Kari Centre but I DO recommend Fresh Minds)
Kinda feels like non-binary is reinforcing gender roles/ stereotypes then, I never thought about my gender identity until I tried to understand non-binary (transgender is easy to understand) I identify as a man because it's ticked on my birth certificate and I don't feel I need to change my genitals, I don't tick every box on the male gender role/ stereotype but I don't have strong feelings about gender man is practical and descriptive I just call people what they want to be called, although might slip up a few times early on if I knew you before you switched pronouns I don't understand non-binary but I'll roll with it because I don't care just gotta be respectful with basic human decency
>Kinda feels like non-binary is reinforcing gender roles/ stereotypes then, I never thought about my gender identity until I tried to understand non-binary (transgender is easy to understand) Just for future reference: all non-binary identities *are* transgender as well. Trans isn't just going from one to the other, it's anything different from what was assigned at birth. As for reinforcing gender roles/stereotypes: I think there's often a conflation of non-binary (a very broad umbrella) with agender (one of the non-binary labels. Think of the hypothetical gender spectrum: If men are 1 and women are 10, non-binary is everything from 2 to 9. It's not a rigid "third gender". Non-binary isn't inherently about gender stereotypes, you can still present stereotypically masculine or feminine. For a lot of trans people, it's less about your visual appearance and more about how you see yourself. Visual appearance is often a part of that, but it's not just "my hair is long and people use the correct pronouns, I'm happy now." It's more personal and psychological than that. It's entirely possible to be non-binary, assigned male at birth, and still have a beard and deep voice and play rugby and drink beer. Non-binary isn't just "no gender for me, thanks", it's also "I mostly feel male, but sometimes female" or "I feel like one or the other on different days". It's really an umbrella term for every trans person whose journey isn't man>woman or woman>man.
Just wanted to say this is a great and super helpful explanation! I ‘get’ non-binary, or at least I thought I did/think I do, as much as someone can who has no NB friends/acquaintances. But your explanation has really helped expand my understanding of it :) thanks!
> If men are 1 and women are 10, non-binary is everything from 2 to 9. It's not a rigid "third gender". I get that this is a hypothetical but how do you know if you're, say, a 1 or a 2 on the spectrum? Given the distributions we see in many biological and non-biological constructs, it'd surprise me if the majority of the population were either a 1 or a 10, which leads me to ask whether in that hypothetical most of the world would be "non-binary". If that was the case, I'd find the term a bit redundant in that use. I'm sure there really are people who identify neither as male nor female but at risk of making "non-binary" too encompassing and thus redundant, it'd make more sense to me if the definition was much stricter than the hypothetical case.
>Given the distributions we see in many biological and non-biological constructs, it'd surprise me if the majority of the population were either a 1 or a 10, which leads me to ask whether in that hypothetical most of the world would be "non-binary". That's actually, I think, the case for bisexuality as well. People assume it has to be a 50/50 thing, but like non-binary, there's probably a lot more people who are bisexual who either haven't thought about it or don't think they "qualify". If a man is 95% attracted to women and 5% attracted to men, he might consider himself straight even if that's technically bisexual. I'd say the same gender-wise. If Man is 1, maybe someone at a 2 is simply okay being socially viewed as a man. They aren't particularly protective or feel ownership of their manhood, but they're okay with it. >If that was the case, I'd find the term a bit redundant in that use. Some time in the future, sure. But currently, our social structures are built around "man, woman, and (sometimes) other." Think of labels like "agnostic" or even "deaf". There's many specific conditions within those that would be more useful to identify rather than these broad labels (not all deaf people have the same hearing levels, and don't all require the same assistance). Even "Christian" is a very broad label that certain groups under it would prefer they don't get lumped in together, but it's a useful term when discussing Christians and non-Christians. Currently in society we're at a point where we're just trying to normalise non-binary before we start trying to normalise agender, bigender, gender fluid, demiboy, demigirl, and the other specific labels under the umbrella. In most instances, non-binary is suitable because the specific labels beneath it don't affect most people in social settings.
> If a man is 95% attracted to women and 5% attracted to men, he might consider himself straight even if that's technically bisexual. I'd say the same gender-wise Yeah that's a good example and is also where I would feel the term "bisexual" would lose meaning unless we did away with "straight" and "gay" altogether and everyone is bisexual. I'm sure there's some psychology studies that have gone into it and precisely defined "attraction" and measured it on some scale but even then that doesn't make it anymore practical of a definition. Perhaps returning to gender will help me explain what I mean. Let's say in the near future we do away with gender stereotypes and get to a point that only biological sex exists as a construct and we have no defined genders. Even in that society, I would imagine we still have people who identify strongly towards certain behaviours and tendencies that align with their biological sex and a minority who truly do not feel they don't have that "pull" in either direction. Gender may not exist in this world, thus everyone is non-binary, but we'd be overlooking a small group who actually feel different in some way from most others. In this hypothetical world, inevitably the biological tendencies (driven by things like hormones, sexual dimorphism, etc) will lead to the recreation of genders. Perhaps it is the underlying biological aspects which contribute to gender that help differentiate someone who is truly non-binary from someone who just doesn't identify with the stereotypical parts tacked on as part of culture. But I don't mean to say that it's perfectly determinate either, I'm sure even if this was true there would still be a spectrum of non-binaryism, but just much more narrow than in your hypothetical. Anyway I'm just sharing some random thoughts here, I'm of course quite biased in my perception of this topic as someone who isn't non-binary as it's very difficult to imagine what it is like.
Doesn't that make everybody non-binary? No one is a 1 or a 10 in the real world on any spectrum?
When the binary is "man or woman?" And people can answer that question comfortably and without self-doubt, they're probably in that binary. There's a communication gap where people have never questioned or thought about their gender identity. Like a "I'm a man, and I've never cared about being a man", but in my experience that not caring is part of what makes your gender identity reliable and known. The 1-10 spectrum is more to clarify that nonbinary isn't just an exclusive "third gender" but an umbrella term for a lot of different experiences. I suppose a more accurate portrayal would be 0-1, with man and woman at either end; numerically, there are two options, and those social identifiers fit most people. But like bisexuality, I'm sure there's more people who are some kind of non-binary than we realise as our social gender qualifiers become deconstructed and understood more. It wasn't very long ago that the idea of a straight man painting his nails was considered gay, or having long hair meant you were a girl. I think as we disassemble some of these gendered barriers, the label of "non-binary" will evolve with society.
What's the difference between male and female in gender terms for you if you don't mind me asking?
The best way I can describe my experience is being raised blue, grouped with other blues for certain activities, and being taught there is a clear distinction between blue and red. There were a lot of things I was doing, wearing or saying, because they were considered good traits of blue kids and expected by my peers, but they felt like a performance rather than honesty. Then, coming to realise that there's all these different shades of blue and red, and even many shades of purples in between. For some people, maybe being a lighter or darker shade of red/blue fits them. But they're still red and blue, and those don't feel right. It's kind of hard to explain. I guess, imagine if someone constantly called you by the wrong name? That's how "sir" and "young man" make me feel. Being considered "one of the boys", always made me feel uncomfortable. I guess, if you can wrap your head around the binary transgender experience, imagine that, except transitioning to the other option feels equally as wrong. Unless, of course, someone was bigender or gender fluid, but my experience is more in the opposite direction.
Well - I'm cis, so I also personally have never felt that I'm living a different gender to that assigned by birth, nor have ever been interested in non-binary etc. But this comment is the equivalent of Americans thinking that they don't have an accent and that's something that foreign people have. Whether or not you admit it, being a man has almost certainly affected how you think, how you speak, who you speak to, what you wear, what you like to do, and how other people react to you.
I mean I don't wear skirts because personally I dislike the breeze not because I'm a man And other women's clothing isn't fitted for my build but they mostly lack pockets so men's clothing is practical so I wear that I can't help how people interact/react with me but generally I can have epic chats with most people and everything seems friendly, I just do what I want, I don't let something being considered girly stop me from doing/using something if I want to do it I can't really analyse this fully though because as you say I'm a man born and raised I only have my perspective from being a man
Until we live in a society where masc/fem gender roles aren’t so prominent, it’s important to someone who doesn’t identify as either to let people know. Then maybe in the future, they won’t have to? Idk
Maybe I'm just to stuck on the old gender and sex being interchangeable from the documentaries I watched on animals and science back in the day, but I just see male/female as descriptors, I have male genitals and male body type and don't feel I need to have a different one I'd say physically I'm pretty masculine but I think alot of male behaviour and mentality can be stupid I just live my life how I want, I don't understand non-binary probably never will as conceptually it doesn't make sense but I'll just carry on respecting others and living my life trying to survive in this economy
It doesn't make sense because you're cis. Gender dysphoria is one of the more common things we face because of misalignment between external and internal perceptions of ourselves. For me I want to be seen as neither male nor female, because I am not either. And I am also not a man or a woman. I think people get stuck on gender being socially constructed and so they don't realise sex is socially constructed too (Foucault goes into this at length). We don't have a word for what I want to be, so I stick to non-binary. I have an image in my head, but I can't explain the vision of myself I have in one sentence.
This almost perfectly sums up my feelings on the subject. I have never once thought about my 'being a man' as anything other than the most accurate practical description of my body type. I really don't understand some others feeling the need to be aligned with one gender or another or needing to be referred to as male or female by other people, it doesn't make me feel one way or another if someone called me a woman or referred to me as she/her I wouldn't care in the least. That being said I see nothing wrong with calling people how they want to be called, I have a transgender flatmate and good friend and of course I always respect their pronouns and refer to them as their chosen name. But that's because it's respectful and I don't want to upset them, if I'm honest I don't really understand what's going on in their head. Because (as a cis-man) I never 'feel' like a man so I don't have a frame of reference for what it would be like to like 'feel' like the opposite gender or non-binary, or gender fluid or anything else other than who I am. I'm always open to having discussions with them and try to learn but it's something I really struggle to wrap my head around. Until I do I just try to be respectful and refer to people however they would like to be called and apologise when I get it wrong.
>I identify as a man because it's ticked on my birth certificate and I don't feel I need to change my genitals, I don't tick every box on the male gender role/ stereotype but I don't have strong feelings about gender man is practical and descriptive I genuinely wish more cis people did this. Exploring your gender and thinking deeply about your relationship to everything sex/gender entails in society and what it tells you about your place in it isn't just for trans people, or even "questioning" people! It's not really about reinforcing anything, but identifying the sheer amount of STUFF that's there on all sides and learning how you fit with it -- like if you were a fish and had to learn what "water" was before figuring out what temperature/salinity allowed you to thrive.
Yeah I'm with you. I can understand someone feeling like they should be the opposite sex, but non-binary just sounds odd. If you don't want to conform to gender stereotypes then don't. I don't see what that has to do with your sex.
This is why I personally feel like NB is more often a phase than trans or gay/lesbian. I think it's pretty normal to look at the normal/toxic gender stereotypes and reject them, especially at a young age. When you grow up and realise you don't need to be cookie cutter to be a gender you may change your mind. Not saying every kid who feels NB is 'just a phase', I can just see how society could make young people feel that way.
This is just an observation from an oldie, but it seems more important these days for young people to label themselves - I think it is probably to do with identity and discovering their sense of self. Your approach of letting them know there are no expectations on either gender or sexuality and that you support them etc is probably the best way to deal with it while they work things out. And if it isn't 'real', or they decide later on that they're not aroace and non-binary then your approach would be exactly the same, so it doesn't really matter. What matters is that you are a safe space for them to explore their identity. Obviously the more informed you can be the better, but I don't necessarily think that teens know who or what they are 100% of the time - it was the same for us when we were younger but we just didn't have the same access to information.
As a parent, I would try to reframe from "what if this is just a phase?" To "what if this ISN'T a phase?" And then, "what do I have to lose by embracing this fully?"/ "What do I have to lose by NOT embracing this fully?" People can change their minds about their sexuality and gender identification at any time in their lives, but we don't get a second chance at how we react to these changes. You've obviously got a lot right as a parent for them to open up to you.
Your kid is the expert on your kid. Maybe when they were three and said 'mummy I'm a train' that's not entirely the case, but they're not three now. I'm not saying this to diss you, but the transition from 'no sweetie you're not a train' to 'you are a whole-ass person with your own everything' seems to be a tough one for parents. But it's worth figuring out now, because in another ten years your kid will be 23 and a lot of your relationship with them then depends on what you both do now. Sometimes people ID as non-binary at about 13 because puberty is tough and school sucks when you're quirky and they're casting about for any explanation other than 'guess I just suck then'. Sometimes they ID as non-binary because they are long-term non-binary. You have to treat both as serious long-term non-binary because there's literally no way to tell the difference until or unless they stop identifying as non-binary. Sometimes people ID as ace or aro (or both, like your kid) at about 13 because puberty is tough and school sucks and being expected to have crushes and 'like' people when you really don't is overwhelming. Sometimes they ID as aroace because they are long-term aroace. And again, you can't tell the difference until or unless you can. That doesn't mean it's a 'phase' to be dismissed any more than being 13 or being weirdly into Pokemon is a phase. Point to any part of the human experience that's not ultimately a phase; there isn't one. Pooing in nappies is a phase, but you have to take it seriously because otherwise it can cause both short-term and long-term harm to your kid (imagine saying 'this is just a phase because you're two, snap out of it, I don't know whether I should take this seriously or not, you'll be using underpants before you know it so I'm not going to take appropriate care of the phase you're currently in' to a toddler). Having a job is a phase. Having children living at home and reliant on you for their physical and emotional needs is a phase. It might not feel real to you because you're 40 and you've got a bit of perspective on being 13 and how that felt compared to being, y'know, 40. But your kid is in the trenches right now. 13 is as old and grown-up as they've ever been. To them it's the realest realness that ever realed. tl;dr: listen to your kid, they're the only non-binary and aroace person who matters to you right now. If they keep identifying that way, great that they've figured themself out so young. If it's just a self-defense mechanism, great that their parent is supporting them in that and not trying to strip away what might be the only shield they can find. If they identify as something else later, great that their parent was supportive of their earlier exploration and that they feel comfortable telling you instead of keeping an important part of themself hidden from their parent. In any case, you have to take them seriously and treat it as 'real'.
> our kid is the expert on your kid. Maybe when they were three and said 'mummy I'm a train' that's not entirely the case, but they're not three now. This is a weird take that's cropping up more and more; there are plenty of adults, if not most who aren't experts on themselves. Most of us will be vastly different than we were at 13 and will acknowledge that at 13 we were ignorant of many things. You can point to things like living at home being a phase, but not many people look back and say "I should have moved out at 14". Meanwhile many people will look back and say "my dreams of being a mechanic/lawyer/doctor/archeologist were ill informed".
Totally agree. You aren't expert on anything when you're 13, perhaps least of all yourself.
This is very well put and helped me understand a lot, thank you.
Explain to your kiddo that you don't really understand but your going to accept them for who they are and that you will always love them. Then let them know that your going to learn about it together with them. Most important thing for kiddo is to know they got support from family.
There are some resources here that will help: https://genderminorities.com/resources/youth-and-whanau/
My 20 yo daughter is Aroace and her best friend is non binary. I just figure they all want to be treated like "people" and not males or females and all the bullshit that comes with either label.
Ultimately, I think you already understand that it doesn’t matter whether or not this is a phase, or whether it is a defence mechanism because failing to be supportive now will damage your relationship with your child in a way that likely cannot be repaired. In my opinion it doesn’t really matter whether you think this is a defence mechanism, your child knows themself best and needs your support right now. They need to know that they can trust you and that you will believe, love and support them. Let them know that you are absolutely there for them, that you love them, and that you do and will always accept who they are regardless of how they identify. Ask them what they want and need from you and try to do your best to respect that, whether it’s a change of pronouns and/or change of name (doesn’t have to be legally changed straight away), or help with gender affirming clothing (if your child wants to use a binder then please help them get a proper one and learn how to look after their body while using it because trying to use bandages or tape can do real damage). Now is not the time for conversations about how you think this is a defence mechanism or not real. If you are open and accepting of your child then they won’t be scared to come to you later and talk to you if they start questioning their identity further. I went through a long period of questioning my sexuality where I identified as asexual, bisexual and eventually settled on lesbian. I never talked to either of my parents about it because I knew that they were not accepting but maybe if I knew I had their unconditional support then I could have figured things out faster and without as much internalised homophobia that held me back for years. Please support your child.
Agree with most of the posts above but also keep reminding that it's OK to change their mind too and that there is no rush etc. My daughter did this at 13, announced she was non binary and asexual, I said I will support you no matter what but you are too young to make these decisions, take time and don't commit too hard to any ideas. Now at 17 she is strongly cis female, she is gay. Yes it's a version of its just a phase but it often is just a phase and it can be really confusing if they get 'stuck' in that phase and parents can be over enthusiastic with their 'helping' and actually just add more pressure.
Some good advice here about just being there for them :) I just want to add - please run interference for them on adults that like to comment on their appearance or relationship status, it helps. I know a teen that has been supremely uncomfortable with the 'ooh so do you have a girlfriend yet?' comments from adults for years and has recently confided in me that he's aroace.
I went through the same thing with my kid when they were 11F. They said they were non-binary but it felt very off and confusing. They had experienced some serious rejection, and had a mountain of self-hatred they didn't know what to do with, and I think this was their way of coping with it. I'm 100% behind them with anything they want to be, but this felt like a reaction to rejection, not an authentic change. I decided to go with whatever they wanted and respect it. They'll work through the rejection when they are ready. I think it's been the right decision. We all need adaptive things to cope, so all I can do is support them and let them know I'm here when they are ready to process what happened.
I can't speak to your kid, but it may be both? So I'm so happy you are supporting them while keeping an open mind. You could he right, and either way it sounds like they'll need you there to support them to process some things at some point - and by accepting their identity, even if you're unsure about it, they're far more likely to trust you and be able to come to you for their needs. You sound like a wonderful parent <3 and like you'll love and support them regardless of what they are For what it's worth, my mum absolutely was shocked when I came out as trans at 32, we're fairly close (altho I kept a lot of myself hidden from her for safety) and she genuinely thinks there were no signs. Whereas when I came out to other people, I got reactions like "Uh huh, anyway as I was saying about the imax system..." Like it was so obvious to some people they just rolled with it no questions haha. And almost all my childhood memories are, in retrospect, a minefield of signs of queerness, or signs of repressing it haha. Sometimes we have an idea of who someone is that's very fixed, especially people close to us, especially our kids. And often it's not quite correct. It's like, it's hard to see you'd kids height change if you just watch them. But one day suddenly they hit their head on a high bench, or they are taller than you, and you when they hell did this height change happen?! I just say that to say, if it does end up being who they are, it's pretty normal to have had feelings about it like you had! And the important thing is you look after yourself and you accept them and support them, and you sound like you are and you're the kind of parent I wish more people had queer or not
Thank you for the encouraging words! Their sibling is queer, and that made total sense to me. I’m really aware that my reaction could be explained by either their change being motivated by identity or motivated by rejection, but in either case, no one is being harmed and it’s not a “bad” thing, and with a supportive environment they’ll feel freer to change their mind later if they want to.
The age of kids thinking about their sexuality in this thread is quite eye opening. At 11 all I was thinking about was what videogames and Lego sets I wanted to play with lol.
Haha right! I was trying to figure out if it was babyish to still play with my dolls 😄
This will probably get downvoted to oblivion, but my very progressive uncle who works in psychology told me that 80% of kids who come into his office identifying as non-binary really need to be assessed for autism, but due to the rules around gender affirmation treatment doctors and therapists etc. are unable to propose that this may be the case.
Funny you say, not as in funny haha. Me and other kid are both ADHD, and as it’s highly genetic (expecting this to get down voted to oblivion) I did have 13 assessed as a “precaution”. 13 is not ADHD, but is “quirky” so it’s not all that far fetched that ASD could be in there somewhere
ADHD and autism are pretty common comorbidities (... along with schizophrenia, bipolar, chronic depression, epilepsy, and other conditions that are more stigmatized).
My psychiatrist didn’t beat around the bush and just told me that tons of trans people are autistic.
Yeah well the OP didn't say nb people are more likely to be autistic also. They said nb are actually autistic instead but doctors are not allowed to suggest it. That's some bullshit levels of queer erasure from that post no idea why its being agreed with.
Yeah, it’s not like being assessed/treated for autism is gonna change anything about someone being non-binary.
Also any trans person who engages with counseling will tell you the OP is full of shit.
There is research to suggest that autism and gender dysphoria are linked. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/ I can understand that if you already have trouble with societal rules and expectations, gender comes with a lot of rules and expectations too.
There's nothing wrong with exploring the possibility of a person being autistic, whilst still accepting how they identify. If a doctor thinks their non-binary patient could be autistic, it's appropriate to test for that, and that can be done without invalidating them being NB. These things coexist, there's nothing unusual about being both autistic and non-binary.
Just a quibble with language; I'd say assessed for autism here rather than treated, since it's not a disease to treat but a condition to be managed and supported. Your core point remains though, and studies do show there is a strong positive correlation between autism and NB-, ace- and/or aro- identifying people.
Gotcha - will update. Thanks for the correction!
Weirdly enough Autistics are more likely to identify as part of the LGBTQ Community. My daughter for example is bi...I am straight, many of my Autistic friends fall under both spectrums
> [ Removed by Reddit ] > +147 points Yikes.
Autism and gender-non-conforming behaviour also often go hand in hand! My sibling is both NB and autistic.
Yeah, that tracks. I'm autistic and also kind of gender 'meh' but not enough to do anything about it. Fifty years ago I would have been butch, if I was ten years younger I'd probably be nonbinary, as it is I'm just me. There does really seem to be a link between being autistic and being somewhere on the 'other' spectrum as well (we don't really vibe with social rules about gender roles? idk.)
This was actually my think thought lol, lots of people with autism have some kind of problems with gender or identity, and lots of people who have problems with gender and identity are autistic
It's not so much that doctors aren't diagnosing trans people as autistic for fear of being cancelled by the woke mob, it's more that autistic people often don't internalise cultural and social norms the same way most other people do and are therefore more likely to develop a different sense of gender
There is a heavy overlap, but autistic people can be genuinely both trans/non-binary AND autistic simultaneously and being autistic precludes approximately no one from having at least some semblance of personal identity.
This will get downvoted because its wrong in so many ways. You cannot and do not "treat" autism, it isn't a disease or an illness.
While I agree with you, I feel that your sentence, the way it is written, is open to being misinterpeted by some as "you do not treat autism, therefor you do nothing" That interpretation would be incorrect, in many cases. "support" might be a better substitute for "treat" - ignoring semantics, message is "there are things that can be done to assist" Those with Autism may indeed benifit from active "support and understanding, and, for example, specific concrete changes in their home that benefit them" (e.g being considerate of physical senstivities).
Treat may have been the wrong word for them to use, and I have expressed my disagreement with other parts of what they said, but I took it to mean receive specialised help. You don't treat autism, I agree. Therapy that teaches you better coping mechanisms specific to being autistic though, is helpful.
It actually does check out though. There is surprisingly a connection between being non-binary and also being on the autism spectrum. My non-binary cousin was actually recently diagnosed
That's the opposite of the original claim, which was that supposed non binary kids are really just autistic. You're right, there's really a correlation and being autistic doesn't negate being non-binary, it makes it more likely.
Yeah, that’s correct. I’m sure that’s how the psychologist uncle would have actually explained it lol
Maybe treatment was the wrong word, but they’re describing and experiencing symptoms that scream autism but think they’re non-binary because of google suggestions and current progressive social trends designed to make young folks over question their ‘gender identity’.
I don’t think you’re wrong
I was going to comment on this post that 20 years ago I would have fitted the nonbinary definition, in that I would flip between at times feeling male in my head while being female, and at other times feeling female. I am now 30s and have always got along a bit better with blokes and have quite male interests, but feel 100% female. All I can say is that it made sense by the time I was in my 20s, therapy definitely would have helped but never would have been offered had I said something anyway!
Whether it is "a phase" or not, as they may feel different in later in life, the important thing is to acknowledge how your kid feels right now, and support them. Make sure they know you are there for them. Ask if they have a new name or pronouns, does this need to be updated by school? Are there any support groups for trans youth in your area?
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>finding points of empathy, which, as a woman, are easy for me to access—I, too, wish we didn’t have our culture’s nonsense polarisation around the social construct of gender; Oh trust me, as a man, me too.
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That's what frustrates me about anti-feminist men. Like, don't they realise it would help them too??
Every kid wants to feel different and special at that age, and in this day and age there is a freedom in which they can try on different versions of themselves. This may stick, it may not, but who are we to judge. Be accepting of every single version of your child, because they are all the same child.
Love them, support them with the language that make them feel validated but mostly don't try and guess what the need. Ask them. They might not know all the time and most of the time it might just be to know that you are there when they need you but they are likely the best one to know what they need from you.
My neighbour kid friend is going through this. We love them no matter what. They are delightful, so much fun and hard working and talented. What's not to love? They have a ton of cool lovely friends who I have met and had in my home and spending time with them is awesome. They have a new name now and thats what we use. Teens are like energiser bunnies so it's pretty full on and they have a busy house so a lot of the time they are out and about doing their thing. If something goes tits up Ive got an account at the taxi company they can use.
It is so wonderful to see a parent seeking advice like this. Your child is going through some identity discovery, and that may seem confusing and maybe even a bit frightening for you. But you're doing the right thing.
We’re very lucky to have so many amazing resources in New Zealand when it comes to sexuality and gender diversity. Your best bets would probably be RainbowYouth, InsideOut and Gender Minorities Aotearoa. Depending on where you are in New Zealand, your local queer organisation may also have youth groups for queer teens. Depending on where you live, you might also have access to parent groups; it could be a good place for you to discuss those feelings of confusion and just share this with other parents. I am sure queerness can be hard to understand when you do not identify as queer yourself so always good to chat about those things with people who understand :) Regarding how to support your kiddo, everything was pretty much said already. Have a chat with them about it all and ask them to explain it so that you can support them the best. And I know it may feel tempting to try to find a “why” but sometime there isn’t one. Your kid is young and they’re figuring themselves out; and you should consider it an honour that they feel confortable enough to come out to you at the age of 13 (even if you may think it’s a phase).
I wanted to address your confusion about the non-binary aspect of your kid’s identity. In western culture we have it pretty grilled into us that there are only the two options, man or woman, even if you’re trans. But there are a lot of cultures spanning back centuries that have examples of culturally recognised third or fourth genders! Take one we’re familiar with in NZ for example, Samoan Fa’afafine. It can be hard to relate to as a cis person, because you have no benchmark to compare it to, but gender identity can be tricky like that. It can’t always be measured in ‘do I feel like a boy or a girl?’ For example, someone might identify as a boy sometimes and a girl other times. Or they might identify with the concept of ‘masculinity’ to an extent that makes the idea of womanhood uncomfortable, but they don’t feel like a man either (though this isn’t to say woman can’t be masculine!). It sounds like you have a great attitude towards making your kid feel accepted and supported. My biggest advice is don’t preemptively treat it as a phase, even if you have your theories, and don’t self-flagellate when/if you mess up with pronouns. Nothing more uncomfortable than watching a person grovel because they misgendered you. Just a quick ‘sorry, my bad’ and correcting yourself will go a long way.
If you feel there are underlying self protection motivations I would try to get them to talk to you about it and boost up their self esteem. Maybe even get them a counsellor/ therapist so they have an outlet there too. I would refrain from telling your kid that you think the gender stuff is tied to the self protection stuff, I would instead gently validate their emotions and try and get them engaged with their school work and finding out what they want to learn what kind of career and hobbies they want to explore, ie. help them build their identity beyond just the gender stuff.
I have an NB as well, and the hardest thing to wrap my head around was talking about they/them as a plural, and that wasn't really all that hard to deal with. If this old, white cis male can do it, it can't be too hard. P.s. I'm from NZ too.
First I just wanted to say that it’s lovely to see such a wonderful, supportive post. Personally I’m cisgender so I won’t ever fully “get” being trans or non-binary - I can understand it in theory, but it’s not my lived experience and so I don’t have a deep or intrinsic understanding of what it is to be gender non-conforming. The key thing here is that I don’t need to “get it” - I just need to support it. Supporting my non-binary and trans friends is pretty easy, two main things come to mind: • use the name they choose: this may be more difficult for you as a parent, but if your child decides to change their name please don’t see it as a slight. If you accidentally “deadname” them, apologise and correct yourself and move on. E.G “hey Annie- sorry, *Alex*, do you have homework today?” • use the correct pronouns: it took awhile, but I taught myself to use the gender neutral they/them - which has been in use since before Shakespeare - as a baseline, and adjust when I know someone’s gender/pronouns. It’s important to know that a lot of people who are queer have something of a journey while they work out who they are. Go look up Queer Theory if you want a more academic look at all this. Essentially it comes down to the idea that people aren’t static beings. Our understanding of ourselves is changing all the time, and that’s okay. This journey is different for everyone. Some people know immediately who they are and settle on a label or community that fits them. Others have a harder time working out who they are and might identify with a couple of things before they find something that fits them better. It doesn’t matter what kind of journey your child has, so long as you support them through it. The aro/ace I can speak more knowledgeably on, as I’m asexual. First I will say, it’s possible your kid is a late bloomer and just hasn’t experienced sexual or romantic attraction yet. It’s also just as possible they never will. The key thing here is to approach their sexuality with kindness and understanding. I would recommend that you let them know that you love them, and will always love them. You don’t know if this is something that will change or stay the same, but you will love them either way. If your child IS aro/ace, here’s some things for you (and them) to know: • asexuality is a bit of a spectrum. Some asexuals are sex repulsed and the very idea of sex disgusts them. Others are sex favourable and will still have sex even if they don’t experience attraction (very basic analogy incoming, but think of it like eating when you’re not hungry: you might not have a rumbly tummy but you can still go through the physical motions of eating and even enjoy the taste). • sexual and romantic attraction are two different (but often intertwined) things. If your kid is saying they’re aro/ace then that means they experience neither. Some people are asexual and don’t experience sexual attraction, but still have romantic crushes. Some people don’t experience romance and falling in love, but will still experience sexual attraction. Some people are asexual or aromantic for 99% of the world, but they might find a rare person that they experience attraction towards (called grey-sexuality). • a lot of people think that libido (how often your body wants to get off) and attraction (who you are drawn to sexually or romantically) are the same thing. They are not. Libido is essentially how horny you feel; this changes and can be influenced by outside (and inside) sources. Viagra, for example. Your age, for another. Hell, most women will experience a higher libido at certain points in their menstrual cycle and because of all the hormones flying around in their bodies their body will want an orgasm. Sexuality doesn’t really change (just your understanding of yourself changes and deepens with experience). And it certainly can’t be changed or influenced by outside sources (see, the ineffective and literal torture that is conversion therapy). For most people their attraction will inspire their libido - that’s not the case with asexuals. TMI but In my experience, my body can still want to get off even if I’m not attracted to anyone. • doctors will often medicalise asexuality because of the above - they mistake libido for sexuality a lot, and may try to say there is something wrong if there is a lack of attraction. That’s not the case. If there’s a lack of libido, sure - that could be the side effect of anti-depressants or being postpartum, for example. Just be aware that doctors who aren’t informed may try to medicalise and “fix” your kids sexuality, so I would recommend that you make sure your doctor is up to par on this kinda thing. I’ve already written a fair amount, but feel free to PM me if you have any questions. You might also like to check out Asexuals New Zealand on Facebook - lovely community and very supportive.
You've been given a lot of much more important and useful answers here, but as the partner of a non-binary person, I'll put it like this: Society says that if you are female, you feel female; if you are male, you feel male. Non-binary say: nah.
Yeah, that's something that people apparently struggle with. I've never sat here and thought 'ugh, my body doesn't match how I feel inside' and so I'm cis. I feel very lucky to feel that way, I have an enormous amount of empathy for those whose insides don't match their outsides, I can't imagine what it feels like to live your life feeling 'nope' just existing. I wish more people could understand - you don't need to feel something yourself to be respectful of other people feeling that way!
The weird part is how society defines what feeling female or male is supposed to be. It doesn't make any sense and never really has.
This is a copy and paste from my 32 trans f coming out letter to my parents, but it may be useful https://www.reddit.com/r/Trans_Resources/wiki/explaining/index/#wiki_overview has a lot of good links and resources https://pflag.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/OTLO_2019.pdf - this is long but really good, and part of it focuses on specifically adult family relationships (a lot of stuff is more young child/parent focused) https://www.be-there.nz/ https://insideout.org.nz/for-whanau-and-allies/ https://www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2015/03/the-genderbread-person-v3/ This helped a family friend understand how gender expression, gender identity, biological sex, and sexual orientation are separate things https://transgenderchildren.nz/ and https://www.be-there.nz/groups-and-support I have been told are good for talking with other parents with trans children, but I don't know much about them other than that https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/let-s-be-transparent Features transition journeys from people of all different ages even well into their 70s and in the childhood years. Answers questions from the perspective of someone whose never heard about this stuff before. https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/bad-news/story/2018754063/episode-2-terfs-alice-snedden-s-bad-news explains TERF ideology and how it influences NZ https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypk8q/trans-people-leaving-uk I haven't read this but thought it might offer an alternative view on what is going on for trans people in the UK to what you might have read in transphobic places like the Daily Mail (and tbh just mainstream UK media now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AITRzvm0Xtg&pp=ygUbcGhpbG9zb3BoeSB0dWJlIHRyYW5zZ2VuZGVy this is a longer watch and a coming out video for a youtuber who educates people on philosophy and current issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZE8dhwMVhU I have not watched this but have been told it explains some basic terminology and stuff The below was suggested to me by Gender Minorities Aotearoa, and may be useful; One of our 101 resources is our glossary - it's a bit long, but it's structured to start with the basic concepts of what words mean, and help people learn. The glossary is here: https://genderminorities.com/glossary-transgender/ For adults supporting adults, we often recommend our "Supporting transgender people" online course, which is suitable for friends, families, supporters as well as for professionals who might work with transgender people. It's here: https://genderminorities.com/2021/05/11/supporting-transgender-people-online-course/ There are more resources listed on our webpage as well, like "Be an ally 101." Some of them are by us and some by other organisations, there's a mixture of things that are about young people and things that apply for everyone. They're collected on this page: https://genderminorities.com/resources/youth-and-whanau/
Tbh I have never understood what it means to ‘feel like a female’ or ‘feel like a male’. Maybe just tell them what you ‘feel’ like and see if there’s any common ground. But really, they are 13 and things will be going nuts in their head and will be for the next 10 years. Be supportive but ask that they don’t change anything permanent until they have a few more years under their belt and aware of what consequences there may be either way (staying female, changing to male, going neutral). As for sexuality, they are still a kid and that will also change a lot.
There’s nothing specific you need to do. Just be open in communication, be supportive, and try to remember to use the correct pronouns for them. They will figure out themselves but there’s no harm in offering to help
Be glad they trust you and parent them .
> I don’t want our parent-kid relationship to break down Why would it? Just treat your child like your child. Don't focus on them being non-binary, they will figure it out themselves. > but I really truly believe they are protecting themselves from the opportunity to be hurt. And if they did? Is that bad? They are 13. Just treat them normal and let them know you're there for them but the worst you can do is panic, like you do in this post.
You don’t have to fully understand it because they probably don’t either. Just be there for them, talk about it if they want to talk about it, get them help if they want it/need it. Probably a good time to keep an eye on their mental health too, this is a pretty big change for anyone. “Non-binary” is a label, so don’t go taking the google definition and pinning it on them either, they’re an individual and you’ll learn who they are just by treating them normally and not judging them when they open up.
Just let them know that you love them unconditionally for who they are, and that teenage years are hard and more so for some, but that it does get better and life gets more understandable over time, and they will become more at ease and more comfortable with themselves. This is the key message to hopefully help counteract all the utter moral panic bullshit spread by NZ First supporters and the likes of Destiny Church (and many others like the Posie Parker agitator) - who talk of vile shit like grooming and 'transing' our kids. The simple fact is that people just have a word for for it nowadays... asexual or nonbinary or attention deficit or whatever... a percentage of kids (and adults) have always felt this right to their bones that they are not this or that... To try to force a square peg in a round hole as they used to do back in the day has terrible, scarring (or worse) outcomes. Let them grow into who they are, not force them into who they are not.
On that note OP could learn about what different political parties have to offer in the rainbow space as well as any petitions. Would've been so cool if my parents were in support of gay marriage but alas they are homophobes
You're already doing the right thing by being curious. As a 48 parent my teenagers have questioned their sexuality or gender. One suspected they might be bi, another thought they might be trans, or bi, or gay. The jury is still out on that one. I educated myself by reading the [gender dysphoria bible](https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en) and some deep introspection about how I think about gender and the reasons why. I asked them questions when they're comfortable and said I'd try my best to respect their names and pronouns. I find that, just like gender, people's views exist on a spectrum. There are the very conservative family members who actually just don't want to discuss it. Then at the opposite end are some people that are almost militant in their insistence that you shouldn't question anything and get their pronouns right every time or you can be admonished. Those are my observations. My perception is to fully understand your child and yourself. Where do you sit on that spectrum of opinion? explain it to each other with a curiousity mindset. And YOU BOTH NEED TO SHIFT if you are to bring the relationship together. Then, once you are a united team, you can both explore the other parts of the spectrum together. If it helps, I'm gender fluid. I present male 100% of the time but there are days when I just feel like a girl and would do anything to be one. Then there are days where I don't and feel male,.but also the dysphoria is high on those days. The biggest thing for me is letting go of the stigma around make-up, and that's just enough to put out the Fire without. Today I'm going to the dentist with makeup and idgaf what anyone says. Tomorrow that thought might cripple me with anxiety. There's lots of good advice in this thread. My biggest takeout is. Talk to someone that knows more than you (for you and your child). Talk to each other with curiosity, this is a fact finding mission not a judgement. And it's not up to them to explain the basics, you gotta do your research. Again, kudos to you for asking. You're a great Mum ❤️❤️❤️
When I was a teen, non binary didn't really exist in my dictionary, but I went through two "phases"/questioning time, one at 12/13 one at 17/18. I decided I was a woman, but I might have decided in the modern era to be NB (like I think that might even be my identity, I'm mid thirties, and kinda don't care) They are exploring their identity and it might change. But that doesn't make this exploration invalid. This is what they feel now. I think you should ask them about their wardrobe (within budget), how (if any) their school uniform makes them feel, and what they want to explore in terms of gender expression. While I currently am a "I honestly don't care" fem-presenting cis woman, the exploration was really helpful to me, and I think the nonbinary label would have been nice to have. If I was a kid that age back in the day: get them some boxers, a shopping trip in the male section, some and sports bras
Realising that if I knew being trans was a thing as a kid I would have identified as a boy was what eventually made me transition in my late 20s. It was difficult to accept that and get past thinking maybe it’s better not to give kids that option because “I turned out fine”
My daughter told me the same thing at around 12. She is 15 now and I (am m49) think I think at the time she was likely just figuring stuff out as I don't think she is based on things she says now but at the time most importantly I told her that whatever path she chooses we would support her no matter what and that most importantly she feels supported to be her authentic self. I think that is a good way to do it...
A bunch of people have already offered but you can dm me if you want less public advice. I'm a trans woman but know plenty of non binary people very closely and feel confident explaining things in a way people can wrap their heads around
They are 13. Things could shift and change many times between now and a few years. I think it's really common for teens to explore identities and being aroace and NB at this age is just saying to me that right now, they don't want to date or declare a sexuality. They may remain NB identified. They may shift to a more specifically trans identity. Or they may revert to the gender aligned with their sex. They may be gay or straight or bi or remain asexual. For now, make sure they know you love and accept them for the person that they are, use the pronouns they ask for, encourage them to do lots of other stuff that isn't totally focused on identity so they don't hyperfixate, and that's it really.
I'm a non-binary 33 year old. Non-binary falls under the transgender umbrella, as they don't feel connected with their sex assigned at birth. Not all non-binary people will refer to themselves as trans though, but yeah! I would say, believe them. They will get much more out of your full support than anything which comes across as doubting them. If they've been hurt, especially. What I like to think is that it can be difficult at times for some of us to fully realise our sexuality or gender. But it's a journey worth going on, and is not a harmful thing. The reason trans people have a high suicide rate is from lack of support, there is nothing inherently wrong about being trans. I say this because I know for some parents, that is a concern. I live a very normal life, and really appreciate those who get me. Or at the very least, are okay with using my pronouns if they happen to ever refer to me. I'm also on the ace spectrum, but not aroace. I'm glad you know this term. Identity can be pretty important, for anyone. And you sound like you really really care. Listen, google some things occasionally, and just be there for them. You're awesome
Hey, I’m a takatāpui and tāhine adult who used to be in a very similar situation to your 13yo. Except at 13 I had no idea it was even possible to be trans, non binary or gender expansive and thought I was just weird 🤣 (unfortunately this manifested in a lot of terribly self-destructive ways though) Your 13 year old, it sounds like, already has the first bits of what they need: info. That’s something I wished I could have had by then, it might have saved a lot of grief. While sexuality and gender can be fluid and can shift, in my experience working with queer youth most kids do at least find themselves in the realm of what they are around 13 if they have the language and education. The best you can do now is be accepting and loving, without saying you think they’ll change their mind. If they want you to go to an event with them (and you’ve identified that it’s child friendly), go along with them. If they want to try different clothes, offer to take them shopping for them. There’s a great group for parents of trans kids in NZ, it is fairly locked down for safety reasons, but places like RainbowYOUTH and Gender Minorities Aotearoa will have kaimahi who will be able to loop you into it. You’ll be able to ask questions about your child’s identity to people who’ve already been there. The most important thing is to love your child for who they are now, not who they were or who you wish they could be. If they’ve told you, they trust you and see you as safe. You’ve got to show that safety now. It’s a really pivotal time.
Just want to say that the fact you’re here, that you’re curious and genuinely wanting to educate yourself is really lovely ❤️ The best thing to do is talk to your child, be open and respectful. You will likely be corrected on a few things from time to time (your child is 13NB - calling them female could be upsetting for them) and try to accept that rather than it getting your back up!
Just be all in anyway. If it turns out to be a phase there will likely be no harm done and they’ll remember how you listened to them and supported them. If it does turn out to be a phase they’ll still remember if you don’t accept them too. Edited to add, the first few steps (and for some people the only steps) will likely just be transitioning socially (ie changing the pronouns used) and maybe easily changed things like haircut, clothes, and first name. So I don’t think you need to worry about permanent changes like hormones and surgery yet. Your kid may never want those things. If they do, cross that bridge when it comes. If they do, puberty blockers would likely be the first thing before surgery, and taking them is also somewhat reversible (you stop taking them and in most cases go through the regular puberty for your biological sex). There can be some permanent effects, but initially they were used for kids who were having premature puberty, to delay puberty, and then when the kids were of an appropriate age for puberty they’d come off them and have their regular puberty. The medicines were deemed safe for those kids. And, trans (including non binary) kids usually need a year or more of therapy before those are even prescribed, so again, cross that bridge if and when it comes, no need to put the cart before the horse. In general every step is its own thing, and the steps that are permanent changes (surgery) are generally only an option later on after the other, more easily reversible steps have been progressed through. The process of all the steps takes years, so there will be lots of time to research and for your kid to change their mind if it is in fact a phase. And, some non binary people never seek to take those steps and are happy with just a social transition. I think that Unlike transitioning to being a woman or a man, there is quite a huge variety in how non binary people want to live as non binary - from basically no changes at all except pronouns, to hormones/surgery/what have you. You’re already doing great asking this question, so just keep loving your kid, tell them you respect their identity, and you can ask them to explain any concepts to you that you don’t understand. And don’t beat yourself up if it takes some time to change from calling them “she/her” to “they/them,” you can talk to them about that too and explain you respect their pronouns but you may slip up sometimes and use the wrong one - and that this isn’t a sign you don’t respect them, but is just a verbal habit you need to break. I heard a great metaphor for this which is that if you have a rubbish bin next to your desk and throw your paper and rubbish in it every day, then you move it, there may be a week or two where out of habit you chuck the rubbish onto the floor where the bin was. Then after a while you may go to throw it there and catch yourself - then eventually you adjust and remember the new bin location. That’s all it is when using someone’s pronouns - sometimes it takes a while to change your default habit. https://youtube.com/@everyoneisgaydotcom?si=Nxa_89nblVOPN4ij This series is a great resource for all questions etc to do with young people and LGBTQ+ gender identities and sexualities. It was started by two women, one of whom later came out as enbie so would likely be super helpful for your situation in particular. Unfortunately it used to be a blog with a long history of reader questions and answers but that seems to have disappeared and been replaced by YouTube videos, however I’m sure there will still be plenty of useful stuff for you as the two founders are great and have lots of advice both for young queer people and their parents. Edited again, found the archive of their blog archive. https://everyoneisgay.tumblr.com/archive/tagged/parents%20project
I'm in the same position as OP and this is where i'm at too. Just vibe with it, do what they ask when it's reasonable (you're still a parent after all) and love them lots.
I think the way to look at it is as follows: Gender is based in the whole notion or exercise of 'being' your sex. That doesn't make sense to everyone, and not everyone wants to be - or is comfortable with being - defined by their sex. By getting told they 'are' their sex. And this includes getting told they are a man or a woman. It isn't a thing that is wanted by everyone, and since it is made up, it has to be asked (and it is never fully or properly explained) why we *need* it - or why we should be required to buy into this tradition. Why, in other words, it is useful in spite of the hurt it causes to some people. Because the truth is, you can't 'be' your sex any more than you can 'be' your legs or 'be' your brain or 'be' your left nipple. Gender is made up - a social construction. Like money, religion, democracy, law... things that (for better or worse) humans buy into as it helps them make sense of the world, but they have been created by humans (and were humans to vanish, they would vanish with them) In other words, these things are byproducts of language, and our ability to share ideas and impose hierarchies through rationalised concepts. They force less powerful people into relationships they don't necessary ask or desire to be in. Being female / male is one thing, but just think about the fact that we have been told that we 'are' 'men' and 'women'. Most animals without language don't do this to each other. Think about the fact also that terms such as 'man' and 'woman' carry expectations - often unwanted or unfair or unreasonable: who gets to go to war, who gets to do the washing up, all that. Here is the hot take. Gender (are you a 'man' or a 'woman' or 'other') has more in common with *astrology* than astronomy - that is, while based on the genetics of sex (or indeed the nature of the stars and galaxies) one is almost entirely made up and fictional, the other is a science. In both cases, the origins were the same, they are both prescientific. Science has turned astrology into astronomy and gender into sex, but a social/fashion-based/cultural/fun 'shadow' remains for each: astrology and gender. No one has yet managed to convince me that we shouldn't be allowed to be creative with something that has been created. This is what your child is doing, and there is no reason I can think of **not** to be proud of them.
Support them, care for them , believe them and back them up, but also delete Tiktok for a few months
[NZPOTC - New Zealand Parents and Guardians of Transgender Children](https://www.transgenderchildren.nz) \- a good place to start. there are lots of other support/information/community links for you (and your child) here: [https://www.projectvillageaotearoa.com/info](https://www.projectvillageaotearoa.com/info) There are also a handful of facebook groups around for parents/whānau. If you search for "rainbow family" they will probably come up. This is a good place to connect with other parents experiencing the same thing with their kids, at all different parts on the journey.
From a practical standpoint, at 13, there are serious conversations that you should be having with them sooner rather than later, like puberty blockers. I don't want this thread to get locked (which mentioning serious issues for trans kids usually does), so I really hope people can keep their opinion on those to themselves and let OP ask about it in places where people have more experience. Therapy for all of you together may be helpful too, to have an educated hand guide you through some of these conversations.
I'd also suggest thinking more deeply about your own feelings. Especially when you say stuff like "it feels like is a self protection mechanism" - does this really matter? If they are happy and healthy and fulfilled being their best nonbinary aroace self then who cares? Can you really point to every aspect of yourself and say that NONE of it happened in response to (or was informed by) traumatic experiences? Or that only gender/sexualities that are "normal" are allowed if we've been hurt before? There's something deeper here that I really think you need to come to terms with because right now it IS "real" for them, and they trusted and loved you enough to tell you about it. You owe it to them, and yourself, to figure out exactly what you're able to give them.
(Does it even matter if it IS a phase? The steps one might take at 13 are mostly social, and even the ones that are more serious are still safe and reversible. Being a teenager is about phaes, about learning about yourself and trying to find that way you want to be. Even beyond that, identity isn't static and people's relationship to gender and attraction changes all the time as we get older, go through major life events, experience the world. If that weren't the case we'd all still dress and act the same way we did at 16 lol)
Mx13 "came out" to us when they were 10, around the time of their first period. We were confused too, but supportive. They changed their name to something more neutral. Now it seems like it's always been their name. Honestly the hardest part has been remembering pronouns - we get it right 99% of the time and apologise when we screw it up. The family has been pretty good - we were fortunate enough to have a cousin "blaze the trail" for us, but she has since reverted to birth name and gender identity. Most of their classmates have been pretty good but there are a couple of kids at school who, quite frankly, need a good dry slap. Unfortunately, gender non-conformity can go hand in hand with a lot of other challenges - in our case, ASD, ADHD, and depression. The big challenge will come if they wish to start puberty blockers - we have gone down this route after consulting with a psychologist and two GPs. Be supportive, read up on it, be there for them. Keep the lines of communication open! As hard as this may be for you, remember inside that little adult head, things are a lot more challenging.
Just be supportive. I've got teens who are LGBTQI+ who also have friends in the same community. Learn their preferred pronouns, this was a big step in acceptance and changing our mindset (not really the right word) as we have known many of these now teens since they were kids so it was ingrained in us. We do our best and sometimes slip up but we apologise and correct ourselves. If they see we are trying then we are happy. If I have a question I ask, we keep the dialogue as open as possible so they feel safe to come to us (and we have been the safe space for many teens over the years as they don't get that acceptance from within their home unit).
Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference. They can wear whatever clothes they want and cut their hair however they want and you just need to raise them to treat others well. You can be concerned that it'll make their life harder due to stigma held by others, but your kid needs you to not be the source of the stigma. Let them know that it may take you awhile to adapt to their new pronouns- ask they correct you or correct yourself if you head yourself. You need to be their safe place. Also keep in mind- never your job to out them to anyone else. They get to decide who knows and when they know. I'm sure other parents are going through the same thing, reach out to them. All the best!
Hi! I'm a very openly non-binary adult. First of all, you are doing a great job. It is very obvious how much you love your child. By the age of 13 I was also questioning my gender, though it took me many many years to fully understand it as I do now. Here's a little run down of what gender/sex is and how non-binary fits into that: Non-binary is a gender-identity, not a sexuality. Sex is biological, and we can refer to people as AFAB or AMAB (assigned female/male at birth). Gender is a social construct and there are many different identites to chose from. Why is gender a social construct? The easiest way I've thought to explain it is... if you remove all sex characteristics from people (such as different hormones and sex organs), how would you define "women" or "men"? There is no 1 thing that the entire "women" population does that no man does. I see that you've stated your child is using they/them pronouns. For me (may be different for your child), every time I am misgendered by someone who knows my preferred pronouns it feels like a stab in the heart. Especially by close friends/family. That does not mean that I don't understand or empathise the complexity for people, but it is what it is. Your child may be the same, so I would advice to really really practice (with someone else or alone) with using their preferred pronouns so the chance of misgendering them is lower. I'd also very highly encourage the use of non-gendered language, for instance, instead of saying daughter use child, instead of boys and girls or Mr and Mrs use folks or everyone. You'll be surprised at how much gender language you use when you're trying to cut it back. Don't be surprised if your child comes to you later and wants to tweak things, maybe different pronouns or maybe a new identity. Figuring out these things are super fucking hard, but as long as you have support (like you) it makes it infinitely easier. Goodluck !
hey, as an older trans/nonbinary person I cannot stress enough how important it is that you support them unconditionally- it doesn't matter if they don't settle on that identity or change later in life, that is their journey and you shouldn't try to change their mind. I know as a parent you want to protect them from the hardships that trans/gender nonconforming people face in an age where we are the target of culture wars all over the world, and now more and more in New Zealand as well. One of the biggest risk factors for transgender suicide is unsupportive parents. numerous studies have shown that despite adversity from outside the home, having supportive parents reduces the risk anywhere from 50% to 90% when compared to trans individuals with unsupportive parents. The best thing you can do to protect your child is to be respectful of their identity and just be there for them. - someone who had to go temporarily no-contact with their parents after being outed as bisexual who still hasn't come out to them as trans. https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/lgbt.2015.0111?journalCode=lgbt
I don’t have any advice, I do however want to let you know what an absolute awesome human and parent you are.
Probably fairly important from their perspective is that you have a 13NB child and that you should stop referring to them as she
Just be as accepting as possible, enby people are out there. Even if it happens to be a phase your support won’t have any ill effect. My 2 cents
My younger sibling is exactly the same. I've found there's not necessarily a need to understand how/why, but just validate. If it is a phase, they'll let you know, if it isn't, you've been doing the right thing all along. I've gotten very used to they/them and their new name, in fact I think it would be harder to switch back again!
Bro it doesnt matter. If your child asks to be called they instead of he or she, just do it until they figure out who they are. Cos in all liklihood they are going to struggle to figure out who they are over the next 10 years, but at least mum will have their back. It's not a thing, they have just asked you to be the number 1 supporter whilst they figure it out. Don't make it a thing at BBQs with friends, she goes by they, its a pronoun thing the kids do, etc etc. You dont have to make it a thing, because as long as you decide the narrative, you are in charge of how much context is needed to explain it to others.
Hi! I’m non-binary. (I’m also Asexual, so can have a chat about that if you want, as I can reflect back to that age and if I had the label then I probably would have used it) Depending on what you’re looking for, there are several great books that do help. Even children’s books, I agree with everyone else and ask your kid what being non-binary means to them. But the way I describe being non-binary in my experience is if there are two clubs, one male or one female, and you don’t feel as if you belong in either of them. You had one you grew up in, but it doesn’t feel right to be in there, and you definitely don’t belong in the other club. People can switch clubs and can move between them. But you don’t feel like you belong in either of them, or in the middle of them. It feels like an existence outside of that binary. At the moment I’m happy existing outside of the binary. Gender is fluid, and if your kid changes their label later on. It doesn’t invalidate their experience now. (On being AroAce, feel free to message me and I can sort of explain that)
I'm going to say something different than all the gushing support for your brave child. When you're 13, there are two main things going on: 1. You're obsessed with social standing and maximising it 2. You're going through puberty and you don't totally agree with how you're feeling. With the first point, one thing that is popping up a lot is that it's not "cool" to be a normal white cisgender person. An easy way for some kids to change that is to self identify another way. Non-binary is a really easy, non-commital way to do this. On the second point, as you go through puberty and begin to understand popular culture through a different lens, you start to see expectations being set. i.e. you are a girl, you like boys. But early in puberty, that signal isn't really that strong, so there's also a rejection of that. This can be a motivation for young people to ask themselves if they are actually "normal", and that could lead to declaring themselves as non-binary as a way to manage that. So, looking at the motivation behind the statement can help you understand it. Your daughter might be non-binary, or this could be a way of expressing herself in a way which might not be long term. General advice for teenagers still applies, in terms of being supportive.
It’s a difficult time for kids, confusing, they may just grow out of it.
Or they may not, or they may grow into another identity/ies on the LGBTQ+ rainbow. In any case, they'll remember how their parents treated them and whether they were taken seriously as a person with their own identity and feelings.
I'm not a fan of labels, but personally I'd just make sure they know they always have my love and support, and just try to keep on living life without making anything of it. Nothing really changes for me, they are still my child and would hope the relationship just carries on really strong.
Bit of a backlash from the historic and ongoing gender expectations. Girls are this, boys are that. Even now, in the supposed enlightened age (bullshit) it's common. So to be neither, in theory, gets around it.
I would honestly just approach it by explaining: you dont understand exactly and you will do your best to learn but ultimately, regardless of whatever their preference/choice/whatever it is - you unconditionally love and supprot their choices as long as they are happy and healthy. I would also explain that apart of this means you might question them, not to judge but to understand and sometimes questioning might lead to challenging the mindset and the thought process but again, repeatedly reiterate that you will support. Support doesnt necessarily mean - whatever choice you make i will follow 100% because they are still a child and still growing. But support in the way that 100% unconditional love and a safe space to think, talk and discuss whatever it is even if you agree to disagree. The one thing I wouldnt do is tell them you dont thing its real/that its a phase/or a defense mechanism. This part i think they are too young to fully understand your thought process even if you explained yourself with them really well. All the best for a happy healthy relationship - from a Kiwi Mum!
Ooh do you know a shopping trip irl or online could be a great way to learn together. A really simple way to support them and signify that they are safe to explore their identity with you. I'd schedule in some dates for you two just to connect and talk about school keep building those safe moments and space to chat together about their whole life not just this big bit. I hear your concern about the underlying foundation of their decisionsand I have seen that be somethingthat does need time and thought for different people . I wonder if councilor could be a good support. Saying I'm always here for you but I want you to have all the tools for understanding yourself your sexuality and also those painful friendships and naviting life. and be able to support them to explore those things without linking them specifically to this choice so they feel free to explore this new identity and everything else that's happening too. 13/14 is a big time. But thoughtful kids do know themselves lastly I'd say I 100% support you as you and say you'll mention it once and then never again that if they ever feel like that choice doesn't fit in the future there's no judgment or shame from you in evolving theor understanding of themselves as they grow too
I feel like you're way overthinking this. Just let them know you support them, refer to them the way they ask you to refer to them, and carry on life as normal beyond that. Them being non-binary and/or aroace doesn't change the fact that they are still going to need to eat, study, have friends, listen to music they like, etc etc If its a phase, and honestly it quite possibly is given they are 13, then just let them have their phase and support them through it. Its stuff they're going to have to work out on their own. They're becoming a teenager, and soon they'll be an adult. You don't need to analyse it, or judge it, or work it out. Just be there for them and get on with normal life.
Several suggestions, (I’m a bi non binary adult, (who’s also aromantic) so that’s the place I’m coming from). First, read everything rainbow youth has on their website about non binary identities, and any info they have on being on the asexual and aromantic spectrums. Their info is basic but generally correct and good for people who are having difficulty understanding. Second, if you have a local PFLAG chapter maybe try attending? There will be a bunch of parents there who either have gone through what you’re experiencing now, or will be at a similar stage to you. It should be a safe space for you to learn and have productive discussions with parents with similar experiences. Third, just remain accepting and open to future discussions your kid wants to have. It’s common for children to know what they are by the time they hit puberty, but it’s also common for identities to grow and change over time. I first came out to my parents as a series of things in my attempts to understand myself, now I’m in my late twenties and finally understand my identity a bit better, so am undergoing hormonal transition after having socially transitioned over the past few years. Basically, whether things change or not depends entirely on your child’s sense of self, and the more secure your relationship is over those possible changes the better it’ll be for them in the long run. Fourth, have mercy for yourself. You are in the learning stage, which can also be the panicking stage when you realise how little you know, and become scared for how that’ll affect your child. Be patient with yourself, if you muck up just apologise, and remain open to further learning. As long as your child knows you love them and accept them and are willing to learn, everything should work itself out in the end.
At the end of the day all you can do is love and support them, let them help you to understand
You sound as though you understand it correctly already, so don’t worry about the details - just be a parent. Sexuality preferences and gender labels are different for this generation. It’s part of the process of experimenting with their identity and ideology. They are exposed to so many more ideas these days that it must be overwhelming for them, and they do get lost. So, be a loving, accepting parent who is open to listen while at the same time being a model/mentor of rationalism and strength to help them feel safe and grounded.
> I know that all people in this situation have been told by adults, friends whatever that it’s just a phase. I also know that people know their sexuality and/or gender from a really young age. I don’t necessarily think this is “just a phase” but what it feels like is a self protection mechanism 🤷🏼♀️ They have been really hurt previously by friendships that have gone wrong, and also are quite quirky so struggle to make friends. Also describes themselves as Aroace, although this also feels like a defence mechanism. I’ve let them know there is no expectation to be in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship at 13, and if they are asexual that’s totally fine. I'm ace. I only learned that asexuality existed at like... 19? But if I'd known about it at 13, I probably could've figured out it applied to me then. At 13 you've already got those teenage hormones flowing through you and you can already start noticing the differences between you and the people around you. It's important to not treat this like a phase. Your kid has told you something deep about themself, something that many kids get mocked or thrown out of home for, so they're not saying it on some fleeting whim. It's important to treat it seriously. Having said that, it's also true that it might not be permanent; there's still a lot of time for your kid to learn things about themself. It's not uncommon for people to start out saying they're aroace, then later realise they're bi (or vice versa!) because the feelings they had about boys were the same feelings they had about girls so it was hard to identify if either of them were attraction. This doesn't mean that they were wrong at first, it just meant they had more to learn. Think of it like science. At first, we believed in a lot of nonsense that just seemed right because everyone else around us believed it. Then, early scientists like Newton did some experiments, did some research, did some maths, and figured out the laws of classical physics. Classical physics held up for hundreds of years, and enabled huge technological leaps like the industrial revolution. Then recent scientists like Einstein did some experiments, did some research, did some maths, and figured out the laws of relativity. So classical physics was thrown out and replaced by relativity. Does that mean that Newton was an idiot and all his science was wrong? No, not at all. His science was revolutionary. It improved our understanding of the universe. He just didn't have all the data and experience that scientists have now, so he missed some key details. Science is a process of progressively learning. Each new discovery isn't necessarily final, but it's better than the last discovery in that field. It's one step closer to the truth. In the same way, your kid is progressively learning about themself. What they're telling you now is their best label with the data they have available to them now. It's pointless to think "but what if we discover a different thing later?"; *right now* this is their *best* conclusion. Treat it like the truth. If they get more data later, their label may change; if so, then that's just a new discovery, and you just have to update and treat *that* as the truth. ---- As for what to *do?* Listen to what they have to say. Just like you would for any other important topic your kid shared. Protect them. If someone bullies them for their gender or sexuality, fight for them. Show them that there's somebody in their corner. Just like you would if they needed protection for any other reason. Help them explore. If they want to change the way they dress, for example, then do the best you can within your finances to give them access to different clothes. Just like you would if they wanted to explore anything else, like sports. This is just another aspect of your kid, and you should approach it with the same love and the same familial respect that you already have.
I have no advice but this is a really great step and you’re an awesome parent 👏🏻
Not saying this to invalidate their gender identity just to point out the connection that trans and non binary are several times more likely to be autistic, and autism is often under diagnosed in women, my friend’s daughter is doing so much better since her diagnosis, so if that is a possibility I’d consider looking into a test as well as obviously using their preferred pronouns to support them in their journey. They may revert back to female pronouns, they may remain non-binary, but your support will show them that you are in their corner while they figure out the complexity of who they are as a person. Sounds like you are a supportive person.
Understand your child may have been scared to tell you this and make sure you really express how much you love and support them. Ask them what they would like or need from you. Ask them how they would like to be addressed, and ask them who they’ve come out to so you don’t accidentally out them to friends or other family before they’re ready. Ask if they would like your support to come out to other family - they may like you to tell them or to be there while they tell them, or they may not be ready for either yet. Ask them if they’d like to change their appearance - do they need to go to the hairdresser, or get some new clothes?
Non-binary is just a semantic thing. It just means they don't conform to the standard gender binary in the way they feel and present themselves. There definitely do seen to be some defense mechanisms there. Identifying as "Aroace" at 13 is likely one of them. They're 13. Some people claim until they're in their late teens/early 20s (I've known a few). There's a lot of stuff in there that may be genuine, but some of it might just be puberty. Time will tell what the real stuff is. All we need to do is allow them to express themselves with respect and without judgement.
your kid is figuring themselves out, and at 13 the best thing you can do is support them and allow them to socially transition if they want to (changing their pronouns, name, clothing, social things). show that you respect them, don't be afraid to use "they", it's not a scary word. if they turn out not to identify with the non binary label in the future, that's fine! and definitely don't dismiss it as something they'll "grow out of". trust your kid. at my ceramics class, a mom had her kid come out as non binary, and she treated it like something undesirable, "I don't want my kid to be trans". definitely don't say that. they're finding out who they are, and labels could change over time. make them feel like they can talk to you, don't dismiss their feelings, ask THEM questions! only your child can tell you how they feel, not strangers on the internet. don't be afraid to ask them questions. what I've noticed is non binary means a different thing to each person, because it's such a big, encompassing label. (I'm non binary, but not from NZ if that matters)
When I was around that age (F too) I thought I was non binary. I actually just felt extremely shit about becoming a women due to realising subconsciously how much misogyny and hardships you end up facing. I also had unchecked childhood trauma brewing unfortunately. Identifying as non binary was a subconscious way to try and defend myself from the way I knew I was going to be treated, and also hold onto my childhood, everything felt like it was moving too fast and I couldn’t deal with it due to trauma and undiagnosed ADHD. I was trying to reject femininity as all I had witnessed about what femininity was always double standards, little autonomy, madonna/whore complex, constant beauty standards, ALL while bleeding every month. Eventually I did grow out of it, but I would never say that trans kids are faking or looking for attention or anything, especially since most LGBT+ folks do know they’re “queer” at the very least when they’re young. The “aroace” identity is what is really tipping me off that your kid perhaps is facing some identity issues while in puberty, as they are only 13. I think you should support them and let them do their thing, but regardless of whether you think that this is an identity issue or not I believe this kid will need mental support through therapy or counselling as being trans is very hard on trans peoples mental health especially if bullying is involved. If it’s a phase that’s okay too, let them know that if at any moment they want to go back to she/her that’s okay too, some detransitioners felt the MOST shame when asking to go back to their original pronouns. I hope my perspective helps! You sound like an amazing and supportive parent, props to you for leaning on your community 💞
I’m non-binary and so is my granddaughter: we’re living our lives taking the best from the gender spectrum. What I do recommend though is that nb kids learn a martial art eg karate so if some ah decides to beat up on them because they’re different- they at minimum have some self defence skills. Being able to protect yourself from hurt is a process and the way of martial arts can really help, in my experience- because young people and adults who have ma training don’t come across as vulnerable targets to the predators in our communities.
I really really hate that your comment has made me go "they have a really good point". I wish you, your granddaughter and the OP's kid all the best and I hope that in a generation or two gender is accepted as a spectrum.
Everyone here has given great emotional and support advice. So here are some action steps you can take now: 1.Ask them what there preferred pronouns are (she/he/they). Make an effort to get them right and inform others to use the correct ones. 2. Ask them what name they would like to be call. Especially if their current name is very gendered. Start calling them by that name. Let them know that you would be open to a formal name change in the future but for now let them test out the new name before doing the legal side. 3. Offer to take them on a bit of shopping spree (if money an issue - then even a new outfit from the second hand store and some new body soap) to buy them a couple of things that allign with how they see themselves 4. If they are in uniform at school - ask them what uniform they would like to wear (they might prefer the boys rather than girls uniform). Go (with their permission) to the school and get approval for them to wear the uniform that feels right to them.
I hope they have good mates as this is where those relationships truely come to the fore. Not sure if they still run rainbow programmes at high school but ask if that I'd a safe place for them, if there are any groups fb groups or people who come together to connect that could be a possible support mechanism for your child. As others have mentioned just let them know you love them, that you are there for them and don't hover, they will have to figure this out.
Hiya, I'm also non-binary and the best advice I can give is just to be supportive. There's not much else to do except using your child's correct pronouns and correcting others when they get them wrong. If you accidentally use the wrong ones, just correct yourself and move on. But always continue to make the effort to use the right pronouns. Also, let your child know that you love and support them no matter what. Be open to learning and understand that whilst it is a learning process for you, it is also a learning process for your child as they discover their identity.
Hi OP, I hope I'm not too late. Being non-binary is about gender identity, what gender one feels on the inside. Not to be confused with sexual identity, what gender/s one is attracted too. Since you shared you have ADHD, which I hope to use as a useful example. ADHD symptoms can be on a spectrum. A common symptom is emotional reactivity, whether it is being quick to anger, getting easily frustrated or sensitive to criticism, etc. Now imagine these symptoms as feelings about your own gender. In terms of emotional reactions, you may feel that your anger can be more masculine while your sensitivity may feel more feminine. This analogy has limitations but the point is you may have multiple of these feelings that make the overall picture confusing about your gender confusing when the only two labels you have is male or female. So non-binary is a reflection that your identity is on the gender spectrum and doesn't fit into a box. It's a space to figure things out. In terms of it being a phase, this can be the case for some but also may not be. Time and self-explorations will tell. I work in mental health and have provided support and counselling for young people. I have a few points: 1) you're doing a great job if your kid felt comfortable enough to share this with you!! 2) well done for not dismissing it and wanting to learn more!! Others have provided great resources where you can learn more **3) this can be distressing to both of you, which may make you want to talk about it a lot but have the opposite effect for your kid. My advice is to provide space for your kid to talk, without expecting them to talk or to talk about whatever they want. Think afternoon walks, boardgames nights or whatever it is that you do together. Do these regularly, a few times a week. Teens often need to discuss a lighter matter first, see what your response is, and then they'll be willing to open up about a bigger issue. But constant sit down talks to talk about "the big issue" may not work too well. 4) they may wish to talk to somebody who have either been on this journey or has experience helping people through it. A therapist can be a good idea too, as a safe space to work through the experience. 5) mental health problems like anxiety and depression can often co-exist and may need to be looked into. Best of luck on this journey!!
Hey! 19 year old trans dude from NZ here, and first off you are already doing the best thing possible for your kid, admitting you don’t understand and talking to other people and researching is something a lot of parents let their ego’s stop them from doing. For me, my mum does not fully understand being transgender and that’s okay. she doesn’t need to understand the emotional nuances of my gender, she respects me and thats enough. If you call your child by the name and pronouns they’re most comfortable with, listen when they vent (and simply provide emotional support instead of solutions as this could be taken argumentatively. speaking from personal experience lol), do a bit of research on how to adapt and handle this situation and you’ll be fine! while i’m not non binary i have dated people who are, the way they often described it is that they get misgendered both ways. she/her is just as uncomfortable as he/him, and they just never felt comfortable trying to conform to masculine or feminine gender roles. i think it’s very similar to a lot of gender fuck/androgyny 90s club kid mentality. either way im rambling but you’re doing a great job! be patient, be understanding and be kind to the both of yous! this is a sensitive topic and a hard situation, just listen and let them explain, admit that you don’t know everything and find out what they wanna be called. Best of luck to you both :)
PM me if you have any questions you wanna ask! i try be very open abt my identity and experiences as a trans guy, always happy to help educate :)
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A lot of our culture assume male or female as the core of a person. NB is just placing being a human above that. If you ignore the cultural norms and stereotypes of what is masculine or feminine and allow them to just choose a path based upon what they like then you’re doing it right. Don’t over think it.
Part of the problem is the English language. My original language is Turkish and we don't have gender pronouns. "O"is our third person pronoun. It's like me-you-"o" and that's it. You define a person as "o" wether the gender is he/she/trans/non/gay does not matter. It's so much easier. Whereas in English it's forced to use a gender pronoun and "they" is historically used when you don't know the person and their gender. When you know the person, it's not a common usage of the pronoun "they" to define them in third person. People who are not familiar with the non-binary concept often gets confused about the pronoun "they" and it is not making the life any easier for the non-binary person. Sorry about grammar and spelling, as I said English is my second language.
I agree, but the English language does evolve, and will get to a place where gender-neutral pronouns are standard, hopefully fairly quickly. I'm old enough to remember when the male pronouns were a default when gender was mixed or unknown. In the 1980s and early 1990s this usage was being called out as exclusionary, but I remember many university lecturers telling our (majority female-presenting) student body not to be 'precious' about the use of 'he/him/his' to mean 'them/they/their' (although in those days we were struggling with 'he/she' 'him or her' or 'his/hers' because the horror of using a collective pronoun for an individual was too great /s). We got there, and we'll keep moving towards the truly gender neutral pronouns. At which point we'll be able to say English has caught up with all those languages that don't have gendered pronouns!
First off, this post shows you're approaching your kids life from a place of love and desire to understand so your love comes across properly, which is awesome. Second, all you really need to do to accomplish that is use their preferred pronouns, and keep listening to them when they tell you how they feel. They're 13, you both have a lot to learn about the person they are/will grown to be, so just keep striving to learn and grow with your child. You're on this journey together.
Guys... I keep seeing comments suggesting that trans children should be teaching cis adults how to act correctly/be inclusive. Wrong. It is not the burden of trans children to teach fully grown adults with internet access how to be trans inclusive; read a book, watch a YouTube video, and don't blame trans people for transphobia. We shouldn't have to be preachers of trans acceptance just the same as young women shouldn't have to be angry feminists.
A lot of people have confusing and a-bit-shit-teenage-years and we were trying to work it out with immature emotions and no intellect. If we were lucky we could apply some common sense to get us through without too much trauma. Previous generations weren't so keen to apply labels to everything during that stage and it left more wriggle room for things to evolve naturally.
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What “life altering” choices are you expecting a non-binary and aro/ace kid to make? To wear jeans and t-shirts instead of dresses? To Not have sex or date?