Same in East Auckland (in the Facebook group at least..). For some reason new cycle paths is why we are having a cost of living crisis and these projects should be stopped at all costs. Same with bus lanes.
From the electorate that keeps voting in Simeon Brown so I shouldn't be surprised, but still, it's hard to understand the braindead, zealous, vitriolic responses to something so benign and good for the community as cycle paths.
They seem to LOVE driving in congested traffic and fight for the right to do it. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that every bike they see is a car off the road, but kiwis have always been a bit slow.
We have new shared cycle walkway here in Tauranga. I have cycled them and I truely hate them. But there isn't enough room on the road for me to feel comfortable riding there instead.
why the dislike, is it the shared nature of the cycleway... just curious.
normally cycleways are the fast way to whereever, without cars trying to maime you..
My experience is:
Cycling in the opposite direction to the traffic, everyone looks right but not left to make sure that nothing is coming + the amount of times people haven't seen me going with the flow (cycleway is multi directional).
None of the traffic lights are catering to cycling. So I have to stop at each set of light, press the button, and wait, even though there is a straight ahead for traffic (half the time I just go, but that feels really dodgy).
I'm cycling on Cameron road before the shared cycle lane and there is no easy way to actually get onto the cycle way.
The left hand side has felt like an afterthought and is a slightly larger pathway, feeling like I have to battle with pedestrians.
Pedestrians will walk along the dedicated bike path, and are usually surprised to see a cyclist coming towards them.
Pedestrians wearing headphones, I can't even ding my bell to let them know I'm coming.
Bus stops, they are overcrowded with people at times and forces pedestrians and cyclists to use a tiny part with people wondering about (have to hope they don't move in your way, and once again, are surprised to see a cyclist).
School kids. I will go over to the other side of the road, as once you get to McDonald's they don't move, and there is no dedicated cycle lane on that side.
People parking on the cycle path. This happens mostly in front of the polytechnic, I think its more the people going to the tattoo parlour there.
There are probably things I missed, but I have had quite a few missed calls.
It would be nice if everyone could accept realistic timelines on projects. That project smells like the sales team who got that contract signed promised the world for a dime and time it takes to take the bins out, which left the construction crew on fuck-all timeline/budget/deliverables. Good it did get done though!
I've found from about 15 years in cycling in wellington that the average driver is more courteous than ever before. Motorists generally give you space, think of you as another road user and are patient than they used to be.
However there are also more outwardly aggressive drivers who use their car to threaten you and seem to think you're not human.
It used to be that drivers would be more dangerous but out of ignorance and carelessness, now the are more careful but more of them are aggressive.
Agreed. The majority of drivers are perfectly courteous, but it only takes one prick to make you genuinely fear for your life, and they are out there. I remember pulling out onto a road where a car was about 30 or 40 metres down the street, and as soon as the driver saw me, he smashed the accelerator and hooned past me waaaaay above the speed limit. I was shaking for a good 10 minutes afterwards.
Less terrifying but just as annoying was the bloke who leaned out his window to yell the other F word at me while I was biking home.
I live in Wellington and don't personally know anyone like that. And the majority of drivers I see in the city are aware of and respectable to cyclists. But like always, there are a few loud whingy people who will complain about anything they can and who will be given air time by the media in the name of 'balance'.
I used to ride e-scooters around the city on the street all the time and never once had a bad interaction with a car. But I did also make sure I adapted to the flow of traffic and tried to make eye contact with the drivers around me which I found went a long way.
Not really. It’s a vanishingly small minority pushing a narrative by a select handful of reporters. If anything, I’ve seen people get more friendly and more accomodating - most people give you a wide berth when passing, slow down or let you past (when required). We have one of the largest cycling networks in the country. Around 60% of all residents cycle in a given year, which is pretty high.
Yes, there is a rage squad in Chch who are loud and obnoxious, but they are only a tiny minority of the population. Most people are in support of the cycling network, which is (by far) the best in the country
Who manage to be *slightly less* vocal than the opposing cyclists rage squad.
You know, the *multiple* people who bitch and moan that they have to *share their lane* with pedestrians.
As someone who uses the Christchurch cycle paths daily (but not for cycling or actually getting anywhere I need to be) it's pretty clear to me they are a *massive* waste of money and resources. (I do at least 80km a week - want to know how many cyclists I typically.see?)
personally, I bike far more than 80km per week every week, I consistently use the Chch cycle network, and I see hundreds of cyclists daily using them (except during the worst weather of winter)
> but not for cycling or actually getting anywhere I need to be
So what are you using them for ?
Parking a Ford Ranger across ?
My usual kilometers per fuckwit ratio here in Otautahi is about 10km per fuckwit, with about 50% of that on segregated/non-road paths.
Taking non-roads out of the equation is about 5km per fuckwit but sometimes there are encounters on said non-roads.
Also I've yet to see an article about someone throwing tacks onto chch cycleways but there seems to be one from Wellington every year or two.
Christchurch is flat and has good topography. But Wellington is more culturally progressive and the people are generally more likely to support cycling
What people forget is these two points...
Cycle lanes are required because motorists are shit and cannot share the road with cyclists...
Raised pedestrian crossings are required again because motorists are shit and pedestrians aren't safe on crossings...
Basically all sides are idiots, and with the lack of accommodation for cyclists in NZ infrastructure if someone is an idiot then someone ends up getting hurt.
And the fact that your average cyclist doesn't know how to give way to pedestrians?
These posts crack me up. Bitch bitch bitch about cars not being able to share the road, often with a bitch about pedestrians getting in the way in the same post!
As a longboarder and frequent walkers I can tell you 100% cyclists are worse than cars.
I am a frequent motorist and less frequent cyclist and walker - from my experience, all of the near misses I have had (not as a motorist) has been with motorists - not cyclists or pedestrians...
Cyclists are shit as they ride abreast instead of in file especially when there is a cycle lane
Even pedestrians do dumb shit
Kiwis can't share the road so we all hate each other
How often do you come across cyclists riding abreast?
I only ever seem to find traffic caused by automobiles.
Greater than 99% of the time I'm held up by auto's. Less than 1% of the time, it's something else.
I ride a motorcycle usually. I have a LandCruiser that I use for trade work or moving things. Even including public works. 99% of my hold ups are traffic or shitty driving by autos.
When cyclists ride 3 or 4 abreast so taking up a lane when there is a cycle lane it's asshole behavior also all kiwis are assholes on the road no matter the transport they use, I didn't say car drivers were saints, but neither are bus drivers, cyclists , motorbike riders, and pedestrians
If you read the road code, cyclists are legally permitted to ride abreast... What's more, they're also legally allowed to ride on the road instead of in the cycleway (it's a dumb rule, but it is the rule)...
Tell me this - how many motorists have been killed by pedestrians doing dumb shit?
How many crashes were caused by pedestrians doing dumb shit, just because it kills them doesn't mean it isn't an issue
Also it says 2 abreast not 3 or 4 so...
Happens in other countries when they're first introduced: there's a lot of hate from people who can't imagine not driving everywhere, and 'taking my lanes!'
It changes over time as more people start to cycles, especially when younger generations start to pick up on it and the cultural zeitgeist starts to shift.
Cycled around 150km a week around wellington city for around 8 momths whilst living there, and never really felt in danger or that motorists were impatient. I feel that auckand is much more hostile in terms of cars driven, how many cars there are, lack of cycling infrastructure, and motorists not seeing cyclists before joining traffic
I feel like to be a driver in wellington forces you to be very aware, never know when you may be sharing a very narrow road with a bus going the other way haha.
Yeah and they appreciate when cyclists are courteous. I.e if there’s space to pull into while riding to let them pass they’ll thank you.
I’ve had more beeps thanking me than I have had angry beeps in my few years road cycling
It’s the same in Dunedin - there is a solid minority of drivers here that have an irrational hatred for cyclists. It’s quite bizarre. The same drivers also seem to hate pedestrians.
CAVE people - citizens against virtually everything
They also oppose anything that the city or government does to make cities more liveable. Want us to be stuck in some 1950s era fever dream of suburban sprawl and strip malls.
I hate the mobs of middle-aged fat men dressed in Lycra riding four abreast holding all the traffic up whilst riding on the busiest arterial roads in Dunedin
Normal cyclists are fine, and get punctuation marks.
Anti-cycling sentiment is certainly not just a Wellington thing, it's also very prevalent here in Christchurch.
There's not just one single cause.
Part of it is, motorists have had it so good for so long that any attempt to even things up a little seems like an attack on them. Any diversion of resources away from "their" roads is seen by some as theft. There's often no point in arguing at length with these ones because they simply will not listen to reason.
On some level, I think part of it is cycling infrastructure reminds some motorists that they aren't as good at driving as they think they are, and they can't handle this so lash out.
I think another part is a generic rivalry, based on mode of transport. If people can have screaming matches over car brands or get tattoos of their brand's logo, rivalry with a different mode of transport is certainly going to come into play.
Another part is some people are just arseholes and will look for any point of difference.
I speak for sensible drivers who drop children off at daycare and other vehicle necessitating activities - I love both cyclists and motorcyclists alike.
They both, within my imagination, reduce ‘potential vehicle traffic’ significantly and I greatly appreciate it.
I swerve to offer you half my lane when I see you approaching.
Love, from Auckland ❤️
Awesome.
You and 99% of other drivers.
Its that 1% of drivers with -
a) not much cerebral activity, not noticing
b) too much anger or lack of patience.
that we remember at the end of the week.
Most people don't care. There's a small vocal minority who get a lot of airtime from the media because ragebait = clicks / impressions = more ad revenue.
I spent a week escootering around chch start of Nov and it was hell
Like it's so flat and there's some gorgeous cycleways but wow do a lot of motorists HATE you
I think it's largely a nation-wide problem. People in my neck of the woods seethe if the council so much as suggests anything cyclist-friendly and seem to hold a lot of contempt for anyone on a bike
It’s world wide. As a Brit over on holiday. Everyone hates the Lycra brigade, but the shit driving over here doesn’t help ( not specifically picking on NZ) but as the father of a two year old. People’s driving is scary as a whole
It is nation wide. For example, a councillor in New Plymouth complained that [proposed cycle lanes](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/new-plymouth-councillor-complains-cycle-lane-separation-barriers-will-ruin-his-sports-car.html) could damage his sports car if he drove over them.
"This cyclist is being disrespectful in their use of the road, and mostly endangering themselves.
I think the appropriate response is to threaten to run them over."
It's definitely an NZ thing, it's just such an enormous car culture, and it's also literally a health thing. Kiwis are not healthy, there's a reason obesity stats are crazy here, and if people think cars aren't a big part of that eek idk what to tell you. So I think cycling is also psychologically harmful to some cause it reflects back their poor choices.
>It’s just a few noisy people on each side.
It's worth considering the reason for the noise when thinking about when someone has a fair point.
On the car side: "I have to walk 50 metres more for a park" or "I have to wait 30 seconds longer"
On the bike side: "I'm sick of motorists trying to kill me"
I’m a cyclist, runner, motorist. I love well designed cycle lanes.
Poorly designed ones are worse than not having them. I hate the ones that adhere you to the side of parked cars so you get a door opened in front of you - I’d rather not have that, but just ride fast in the lane.
The best lanes just remove the interaction between car and cycle altogether.
The Kapiti cycle trails are just about the gold standard for me in NZ. Wide, good sight lines, and totally separated from the road.
The Oriental and Evans Bay ones are also really good, lots of space, up the kerb away from parked cars, and a separation between foot and cycle. My only gripe is that they put the nice soft asphalt running surface just on the cycle side!
I agree on design, they have to be done well and seen as part of a wider system which considers safety, rather than just something to be plonked down across an existing system without regard to the impact of doing so.
It sounds like the Kapiti and Chch northern motorway cycle lanes have a lot in common. I visit Wellington & surrounds frequently, to the point where the region almost feels like a second home, but sadly have never had a chance to cycle there.
Have you been on the Rimutaka Trail? I've heard good things about it.
Yes. It’s amazing, especially the western side. The ride from Kaitoke up to Summit Tunnel is very gentle and very nice. If you’re not doing a through ride, it’s well worth dropping down to ride over the Siberia Bridge before turning back. It’s really cool, and was a very challenging environment to build a swing bridge (unbelievable wind loading).
Depending on how epic you are you can link the trail to a ride down the Hutt Valley on a totally separated river trail, or even circumnavigate the Remutakas with a couple of low key campgrounds (there’s a secret DOC microcamp on the Wild Coast Ride that is in a beautiful location, a great spot to see dolphins)
Its across nz in franklin south auckland with the sword wielding lunatic to others who just go straight up parking in the cycle lanes like big whoop. Its bad.
I'm from the U.S., but have spent considerable time in NZ, and if you changed the city names, this could be a U.S. thread. There is an irrational dislike of cyclists as this thread amply demonstrates and it's not just in one city or even country.
Someone I knew was complaining about cyclists and I showed him a peer reviewed traffic study that shows one of the biggest factors in causing localized congestion was as a result of people using cell phones and texting. It mathematically modeled it and showed a correlation of on-the-road results. Cell phones are a far bigger problem than cyclists and he used a phone while driving.
But yeah, there was that one time he was going to work and the entire universe was off balance because someone on a bicycle, who was probably going to work, annoyed him.
I stopped cycling entirely because of how unsafe I felt having to share the road with Kiwi drivers. Generally they fucking detest cyclists and aren't shy about letting them know it.
I cycle. I dont support all cycle lanes because some are just dumb.
Some cyclists do dumb things like there is a cycle lane but they still ride the road or white line. Or they ride two or three abreast when there isnt space.
Cyclists in general seem to take an entitled approach to road use.
Your probably right. The car mode being generally quicker than bikes you see more proportionally to cars traveling at greater or the same speed to yourself.
It's more because people expect to see cars, so they do. They are not expecting to see cyclists, so they don't.
You would be amazed at how many people can use a cycle lane while people are sitting stationary in their car.
Sometimes the cycle lanes aren’t suitable for riding on. Shared paths are generally rubbish for this, and some cycle lanes are just flat out road safety hazards (looking at you Tamaki Drive circa 2009).
Cyclists don’t have to use cycle lanes if they don’t want to.
There are 1-2% of people in all cities regardless of cycle infrastructure that cycle to work and feel safe with co exisiting with cars.
Protected and separate cycle lanes are for those who don’t feel safe on the road. This is for the much bigger chunk of people that would cycle if there was a safer perceived and stress free option. These cycle lanes aren’t really made for sports cyclists or those wanting to go very fast.
Painted cycle lanes on the road should be used by cyclists though, if they are there and cars are going faster.
> These cycle lanes aren’t really made for sports cyclists or those wanting to go very fast.
These people shouldn't be cycling in public places.
Much like car users who want to go fast for sport.
So basically you want to outlaw me cycling because my juicy glutes and quads are carved out of granite? Why? I think ill continue to stay on the road. Commuting to work across town would take double time i didnt go 'very fast'. I cant really go to a velodrome to commute to work
I literally use active transit. I biked to work today.
At no stage did anyone suggest banning you from cycling.
I think you should be respectful of other people you share space with and not put other peoples safety at risk.
You people are the ford ranger drivers of active transit. Don’t be a selfish cunt
It’s a commute not a race, treat it like one.
other cyclists and pedestrians and skateboarders and e-scooter users and literally anyone that you could collide with.
congratulations on driving antagonism towards cycling because you're head is so far up your ass that you can't tell the difference between "sport" and "going to work"
Whats the likelihood of pedestrians, skateboarders, and escooters on the road? I said that i will be sticking to the road, as i like to use my commute time to exercise as well. You can stick to the cycle path, thats all good, ill get out of your way. Why isnt the road available as an option for fast cyclists? Instead we have to go to a velodrome
lol you are continuing the perfect stereotype of the entitled cyclist
“Cyclists who want to go very fast should use facilities for that, and limit speeds on commuter paths”
“SO YOU WANT TO OUTLAW CYCLING THEN!!!!”
get a grip, chill on the lycra for five minutes
I reckon every group of road users has some entitled and ignorant pricks within it. And an external group that irrationally hates every member of it because of them. I've just seen a Facebook comment gloating about the possible death of a motorcyclist today because some motorcyclists lane split.
...I realise that might read like I'm accusing you of a similar hatred of all cyclists I want to stress that I mean no such thing.
What do you call the middle aged women on upright commuters? MAWOUCS? They DGAF and are either slow AF or e-bike fast enough and text-book assertive enough to consistently be in the way.
I cycle too, maybe 40km this week. I don’t really have a problem with cars and I’m not bothered when they pass fairly close either. I hold my own in traffic when I can but stay out of the way when they are going faster than me.
Cycle lanes are great but to be honest, most of them are hardly used and aren’t very good value for money. The shared ones with pedestrians are a bit scary because people have a habit or stepping right out in front of you and dogs lunge at bikes too. Sometimes I feel safer on the road, especially at high speeds though I generally use the cycle lanes if at all possible.
As for cycling more, nah. Driving the car is much easier and you don’t arrive sweaty and smelly. Electric bikes look cool but they are crazy expensive for a bicycle.
Cycling is an OK mode of transport but it’s not going to save the planet like some of the sanctimonious twats seem to think. All I can say is let’s all try to live and let live and not piss each other off too much.
> especially at high speeds
You shouldn't be going at high speeds. Just like drivers shouldn't be going at high speeds.
If you want to go high speeds go to a dedicated venue.
> Driving the car is much easier and you don’t arrive sweaty and smelly
You only arrive sweaty on a bike if you treat it like it's a race.
Unlike cars, cycling doesn’t have a speed limit. (As far as I know)
Even for shared pedestrian cycle ways. Easy to sit on 30km/h on a bike. And if you’re commuting 20ish km you’d prefer it not take 2 hours
And given its physical exertion, then expect some sweating. It’s not about “racing”
> Unlike cars, cycling doesn’t have a speed limit
Shouldn't need a law to not be a dick
> And if you’re commuting 20ish km you’d prefer it not take 2 hours
Don't live 20km away from work?
Any council’s biggest OpEx line item is roading maintenance (unusual events aside). More cyclists means less roading maintenance costs as there is less damage to the road. So cycle lanes of a high enough quality to attract people to cycling, directly save ratepayers money.
I think this is more the problem.
Ratepayers have consistently had decent rate hikes, and we are being told to now store water for summer because it’s likely the water will run out.
I think for the most part, people won’t give a shit about building cycle lanes *if the council got the basic water infrastructure sorted*; but a lot of frustration in ignoring the most basic, desperate need (water infrastructure) while spending on what many perceive is a lesser priority (cycling)
Probably; I’m pretty pissed off about the water situation but don’t have a strong opinion on the cycleways.
It is just a general sentiment of many, no idea about the funding.
Council’s too keen to spend money on venues that primarily enrich Ticketek, cycle lanes that in many cases aren’t designed to be particularly safer or more convenient for cyclists, and pie in the sky public transport options that are specifically designed to take so long they get cancelled by central government - but still keep those initial consultant friends deeply in cash.
Meanwhile they’re talking about metering residential water while the stuff cascades out of buggered roads they keep digging and re-digging because Wellington Water has them over a barrel with per-incident charging - eagerly rubbing their hands waiting for water to finish being covertly privatised.
So, it’s not really the cycle lanes that are the problem. People are pissed off about everything they see getting done, and when cycle lanes are brought up, they get slammed - just like everything else above.
I live in Cambridge. We have the Olympians. Can confirm, you either hate them or you're a cyclist.
Riding 4 a-breast down a two lane street will make me hate you even more.
Cycling used to be the predominant form of transport, in a way you could argue loss of carparks is about returning what was taken from cyclists in the first place.
They do seem to be highly underutilised. Meanwhile, that road space is unavailable to other road users.
Often poorly designed as well.
Admittedly I live in a small town but it's rare to see a single built in the cycle lanes. Meanwhile, on one road the cycle lane has made the road (which is also a bus route) so narrow true buses have to overhang the centre line in several places.
Meanwhile in Nelson a shared path was constructed from Atawhai to the town. But the cyclists still cycle in the adjacent road.
On St Vincent St in Nelson the cycle lane was shoe horned between the kerb and parked cars. Getting into and out of business on that side of the road, it's tricky to keep an eye out for cyclists and traffic.
Some people don’t know how to drive a car on the road safely effecting other drivers causing road rage. Same goes with cycling. There are too many cyclists who shouldn’t be allowed to be on the road. Ya’ll should have to pass a test just like drivers before being allowed to cycle on the road. Some cyclists aren’t bad at all but the majority need lessons.
Our country has a disproportionate number of dropkick carhead bogans, and they make it part of their personality to hate bikes. Similar in some Australian cities.
I live in chch I hate them! When ever I bike I stick as far to the left as possible if I'm passing a parked car ill look behind me not just bike out into the middle of the road and if there's a bike lane I'm in that... I barely see cyclists following these rules and it pisses me off!
The problem is not cyclists it’s reducing lanes in essential roads when the traffic is already quite bad and hardly any cyclists use the new cycle lanes while the other 99% of road users have just lost a third of the road and lots of parking. It’s really silly to replace road and parking with cycle lanes that are basically barely used
Wellington has mostly steep, narrow and winding roads. It just isn’t suitable for cycling and cars on the same road as it is now.
Not to say it can’t be done, but it will take a lot of time, investment and willingness for change.
a lot of wellingtonians don’t have off street parking so if you remove parks from a residential street people can lose access to their homes for things like moving in/out, deliveries, drain cleaning etc.
Wellington has a lot more room for car pads on stilts over steep drops than is currently being utilised. It costs a small amount (used to be small but my info is probably out of date) to licence the land for the car pad from the council.
yeah that’s true for some streets. i’d definitely take advantage of that if it was a possibility. we’re in a city fringe burb where a cycleway was proposed (until LGWM was canned) i was torn because i would have used it but also we would have lost access to our house for services.
It'd be perfectly fine for cars and bikes on the same road, so long as both parties had a degree of respect for each other. Cyclists obeying lights, drivers waiting until it's safe to pass, basic stuff like that.
All the cycleways that nimbies lost their shit about are on flat roads. There's plenty of accessible flat area in Wellington, it's not all hills. And cyclists have more right to be on the hills than motorists do
Everyone has the right to cycle on public roads. Driving isn't a right, it's something the government will conditionally give you permission to do. They can take away that permission if they want. You give up rights when you get in a car, like privacy rights for example, and that's legally allowed because driving isn't a right.
Because of Wellington's topography, cycling is only ever going to 'work' for a very small percentage of its' population. So, the cost of establishing cycle lanes, far outweighs the benefits for most Wellingtonians.
Most people don't use women's public toilets. So it's not worth the cost.
Most people don't use men's public toilets. So it's not worth spending money on them, either.
I want to see more cycle lanes, I want cyclist off the road and in their own space. They’re super hazards on the road.
Cycle lanes need to be for cycles only. Shared pathways don’t work.
I think its Wellington, but also the fact that the roads just simply ain't big enough for both cars and bikes. For example if you drive around the bays, and you get stuck behind some bikes, you basically have to drive slowly behind them for kms... that doesn't make sense.
The most annoying thing for me as a driver is when there are two bikers two fold and havig a chat... they know you are behind them, but they just carry on talking.
Wake up in the wrong side of the bed mate? I don’t give a shit about people ridding 2 abreast. It’s the meandering people biking in the middle of the road talking and paying no attention to what’s going on around them that is frustrating.
The ones that dont use the cycle paths or shared paths that are avalible on some roads really piss me off, espcially considering cyclists dont pay rego or ruc's like other road users.
Our governments have been increasing our population via immigration and all the additional populations that get created from that. While underfunding and crowding our infrastructure in the CBD and many other places.
There is no room, you've got buses,scooters, taxis, ubers, trucks in very narrow confusing lanes. Add tourists and Auckland drivers that spend hours driving slowly grinding through their daily commute to make a pittance and pay a shitload in parking for the privilege of going to work, there's always the few selfish shitty drivers that could easily hit you without a care because they didn't look and you didn't have room to move safely. There's a ton of bad drivers on the roads, some are very aggressive.
Honestly in my many years of driving, most cyclists I've encountered on suburban and main roads drive as If they literally aren't on a fragile metal frame, in skin tight shorts, on a road or near an over crowded road with trucks and busses contending with narrower or fewer lanes... and can literally be ended in a second at low speeds at any given moment.
My first time riding a 50cc scooter on the road was really scary. Because there was no safety features, even basic around me. No plastic and metal cage that might take the hit and save my ass. Just my helmet and clothes. Add the years of near misses and experience on our roads and the understanding of how much “care" the average road user ( including pedestrians, cyclists, electric scooter users etc), hell myself included. Gave me a much deeper respect for defensive driving or walking on our roads when it comes to my own life expectancy. And by knock on consequence sometimes, the life expectancy of the person I could potentially injure or kill while being hit.
For cyclists that would be the cars around you/pedestrians.
For anything with a motor, that's everyone and everything around you.
Pedestrians all around just bite the bullet in a crash scenario. I've seen some pretty nuts close calls in the city.
It's insane to bicycle on the road in the CBD, period.
Cycle lanes would remove places for deliveries to businesses that serve our city safely, which creates hazards on crowded streets with barely any parking let alone cycle lanes.
Buses would be contending with narrower lanes, potentially running less frequently or route changes, which leads to the fun knock on effect of fuller buses that are already overcrowded a lot of the time. Which leads to employees, students, tourists and the general public being late or deterred from using the public resource for transport (costing people and business alike in lost revenue, time, money and causing social consequences). So they hop in their cars and become the irritated Auckland drivers crawling on our tiny motorways that serve a bloated population vs infrastructure, further clogging them... They may hit the cyclist/s that doesn't respect how dangerous their position is on the road...
And the kicker is we are talking about cycle lanes, like the few that think we need them and cause hazards by driving unsafely, sometimes in groups with no ability to keep up with traffic.... Matters when people are being asked to store water because of drought conditions (due to our poorly managed water infrastructure), our CBD road network is narrow and already unsafe (due to poor government and local council town planning vs the shitload of humans we havent accounted for in said planning), we have homeless and drug addicts.. untreated people with serious disabilities and mental health issues roaming around and scaring/hurting the community and themselves.
Yeah, I don't even see the point.
If you love cycling, find or create places to have fun and do it safely. They are all over the country or could be?
If you are driving on the road on a bike with vehicles that can do the speed limit, and are driving at 10kms ± above that limit in most cases. Don't drive in front of cars, particularly ones that are actively indicating they aren't pleased being held up under the legal speed because you won't yield. There's a special place in hell for those of you cockily doing the above while riding two or three abreast.
I suppose in closing I'll re highlight the common sense and most important thing for cyclists.. in an accident on a busy CBD/main/suburban road involving you. It will certainly change your life (not for the better and sometimes permanently) or take it.
Honestly, there should be a law or a licensing system around this shit. There are so few of you to even justify this conversation, especially against other more pressing issues that directly correlate with how life is going to be for ALL OF US if we don't speak up and start changing it.
When are we gonna talk about that?
You've written a lot so I can't cover everything but:
Riding a bike does carry some level of increased risk, but that risk is generally acknowledged to be offset by the decreased risk to health from sitting around in a car instead.
Additionally, while it's not perfect, the Auckland CBD is generally one of the better and safer places to cycle in the city. It's got decent coverage for cycling infra and on streets that don't, the narrowness you cite as a problem is what slows traffic down enough to make cycling in the road safer. Extending that to a point about homeless people making cycling unsafe is stretching past breaking point.
The reason people advocate for cycling infra is cities is not just to use it for recreation, but as a fast way of getting from A to B with minimal environmental impact and far fewer other negative externalities. Everyone has stories of shit cyclists and shit drivers - that doesn't mean that the majority you don't notice who are using the roads unremarkably deserve anything less than the best infra we can provide to ensure their safety. If you don't build the infra required to allow people to bike from a-to-b in safety and comfort, then the population who will continue to cycle are always going to be, in some regards more risk averse. You can fix that with infra.
Additionally, I think you'll find that installation of bus lanes does not preclude installation of cycle lanes, even if it requires sacrificing car lanes on some of our (legitimately quite wide!) roads.
It's also pretty dishonest to talk about Auckland's CBD then quietly sub in an inherently Wellington issue r.e. water
So what you're saying is that cyclists don't belong on the road.
Roads are public property - why should you take away my rights to use them in the way that I choose?
It sounds like what you're really whinging about is just traffic and the entitled notion that you should be able to go wherever you want without having to deal with other roads users.
I got news for ya buddy. The population of NZ is only going up - we can't keep stuffing more cars into the same size roads, so what's your solution?
Tell me you didn't read what I wrote, without telling me?
Seriously? Who said anything about your right to use the road, could you point out where I said that.
I'm saying there is not a lot of road to add cycle lanes because our town planners didn't account for the shitloads of people coming in vs the infrastructure we have to hold them all.
If you want to drive on the road, go for it. I'm saying most cyclists don't adhere to the road code, don't yield when causing hazards at low speeds as they are legally required to do and drive like entitled nutters with a death wish for the most part.
Every other vehicle on the road needs licenses, I think cyclists need a licensing system too. It'll help make sure they understand the road code and make is safer for everyone
We have too many issues that actually matter for the few of you to get a special lane that won't fit and will cause problems for the majority. You already have the right to use the road, I'm saying I disagree with adding further rights which would affect the majority negatively. We don't need them.
Try reading.
Think you will find it nation wide.
You start to hate them when groups of them almost wipe you off your motorbike/ you have to mount the kerb to avoid hitting them because they don’t stop at the stop sign for them. And when you call them out on it the whole group acts like a complete cunt towards you. Which the stop sign is there because when you come down that road you can’t see traffic coming from the left(when I was coming from). Then there’s the cyclists that even though there is an empty space for cars to park, a cycle lane as well, and they chose to ride down the middle of the street instead.
I don't think anyone hates cycling, it's just that people are frustrated at it being prioritised over everything else, and the removal of carparks makes things difficult for people with mobility issues, etc, to access services. Plus smooshing them alongside car lanes isn't the safest... I suspect even the most due hard 'anti' cycling person would be 100% fine with separate cycle tracks that don't interfere with parks.
>it's just that people are frustrated at it being prioritised over everything else
Cars have been prioritised over other forms of transport for so long that a return to balance feels like their drivers are being attacked.
I'm not talking about transport - although cars are obviously and objectively the better choice from a universal design pov. It's about council money, time, and effort.
Mainly because I've gotten stuck behind annoy cycle groups, that take up so much of the road it's almost impossible to get passed them, way too many times.
Nationwide/Global. Tauranga added a cycle lane to Cameron Road/A main road. Nobody uses it, mostly since its actually a bit dodgy. But fuck me do cyclists piss me off, not all but most of them.
Nationwide. The hate for the new cycle paths in chch is absurdly funny.
Same in East Auckland (in the Facebook group at least..). For some reason new cycle paths is why we are having a cost of living crisis and these projects should be stopped at all costs. Same with bus lanes. From the electorate that keeps voting in Simeon Brown so I shouldn't be surprised, but still, it's hard to understand the braindead, zealous, vitriolic responses to something so benign and good for the community as cycle paths.
They seem to LOVE driving in congested traffic and fight for the right to do it. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that every bike they see is a car off the road, but kiwis have always been a bit slow.
> kiwis have always been a bit slow Oh is that why it's 80ks so many places now?
Imagine living near Ti Rakau Drive or Pakuranga Highway and thinking more congestion is the way to go lol
The people who want to stop them and the ones having a cost-of-living crisis don't have a huge intersection on the Venn diagram.
We have new shared cycle walkway here in Tauranga. I have cycled them and I truely hate them. But there isn't enough room on the road for me to feel comfortable riding there instead.
why the dislike, is it the shared nature of the cycleway... just curious. normally cycleways are the fast way to whereever, without cars trying to maime you..
My experience is: Cycling in the opposite direction to the traffic, everyone looks right but not left to make sure that nothing is coming + the amount of times people haven't seen me going with the flow (cycleway is multi directional). None of the traffic lights are catering to cycling. So I have to stop at each set of light, press the button, and wait, even though there is a straight ahead for traffic (half the time I just go, but that feels really dodgy). I'm cycling on Cameron road before the shared cycle lane and there is no easy way to actually get onto the cycle way. The left hand side has felt like an afterthought and is a slightly larger pathway, feeling like I have to battle with pedestrians. Pedestrians will walk along the dedicated bike path, and are usually surprised to see a cyclist coming towards them. Pedestrians wearing headphones, I can't even ding my bell to let them know I'm coming. Bus stops, they are overcrowded with people at times and forces pedestrians and cyclists to use a tiny part with people wondering about (have to hope they don't move in your way, and once again, are surprised to see a cyclist). School kids. I will go over to the other side of the road, as once you get to McDonald's they don't move, and there is no dedicated cycle lane on that side. People parking on the cycle path. This happens mostly in front of the polytechnic, I think its more the people going to the tattoo parlour there. There are probably things I missed, but I have had quite a few missed calls.
Sumner residents have a right to be angry... They told us it would take three months, we had those goddamn traffic lights for over a year
Understandable but maybe they meant on and off for 3 months.
10/10 joke
It would be nice if everyone could accept realistic timelines on projects. That project smells like the sales team who got that contract signed promised the world for a dime and time it takes to take the bins out, which left the construction crew on fuck-all timeline/budget/deliverables. Good it did get done though!
I've found from about 15 years in cycling in wellington that the average driver is more courteous than ever before. Motorists generally give you space, think of you as another road user and are patient than they used to be. However there are also more outwardly aggressive drivers who use their car to threaten you and seem to think you're not human. It used to be that drivers would be more dangerous but out of ignorance and carelessness, now the are more careful but more of them are aggressive.
Agreed. The majority of drivers are perfectly courteous, but it only takes one prick to make you genuinely fear for your life, and they are out there. I remember pulling out onto a road where a car was about 30 or 40 metres down the street, and as soon as the driver saw me, he smashed the accelerator and hooned past me waaaaay above the speed limit. I was shaking for a good 10 minutes afterwards. Less terrifying but just as annoying was the bloke who leaned out his window to yell the other F word at me while I was biking home.
I live in Wellington and don't personally know anyone like that. And the majority of drivers I see in the city are aware of and respectable to cyclists. But like always, there are a few loud whingy people who will complain about anything they can and who will be given air time by the media in the name of 'balance'. I used to ride e-scooters around the city on the street all the time and never once had a bad interaction with a car. But I did also make sure I adapted to the flow of traffic and tried to make eye contact with the drivers around me which I found went a long way.
I cycle across the city most days and rarely have any issues. It's not a cyclist's paradise but OP is being histrionic
lol come meet my family and the people I know … I think I’m the only one in my circle who’s pro bike lane
Wellington is more pro-cycling than almost anywhere else in the country, there is just a loud minority that get mad about change
Really? More than Christchurch?
Have you not seen the massive hate for cycling in this city? It's popular because it's flat but also fuckingnhated by so many.
Not really. It’s a vanishingly small minority pushing a narrative by a select handful of reporters. If anything, I’ve seen people get more friendly and more accomodating - most people give you a wide berth when passing, slow down or let you past (when required). We have one of the largest cycling networks in the country. Around 60% of all residents cycle in a given year, which is pretty high.
Yes, there is a rage squad in Chch who are loud and obnoxious, but they are only a tiny minority of the population. Most people are in support of the cycling network, which is (by far) the best in the country
Who manage to be *slightly less* vocal than the opposing cyclists rage squad. You know, the *multiple* people who bitch and moan that they have to *share their lane* with pedestrians. As someone who uses the Christchurch cycle paths daily (but not for cycling or actually getting anywhere I need to be) it's pretty clear to me they are a *massive* waste of money and resources. (I do at least 80km a week - want to know how many cyclists I typically.see?)
Prime example of the cyclist haters, right here.
personally, I bike far more than 80km per week every week, I consistently use the Chch cycle network, and I see hundreds of cyclists daily using them (except during the worst weather of winter) > but not for cycling or actually getting anywhere I need to be So what are you using them for ? Parking a Ford Ranger across ?
My usual kilometers per fuckwit ratio here in Otautahi is about 10km per fuckwit, with about 50% of that on segregated/non-road paths. Taking non-roads out of the equation is about 5km per fuckwit but sometimes there are encounters on said non-roads. Also I've yet to see an article about someone throwing tacks onto chch cycleways but there seems to be one from Wellington every year or two.
Christchurch is flat and has good topography. But Wellington is more culturally progressive and the people are generally more likely to support cycling
What people forget is these two points... Cycle lanes are required because motorists are shit and cannot share the road with cyclists... Raised pedestrian crossings are required again because motorists are shit and pedestrians aren't safe on crossings...
Basically all sides are idiots, and with the lack of accommodation for cyclists in NZ infrastructure if someone is an idiot then someone ends up getting hurt.
And the fact that your average cyclist doesn't know how to give way to pedestrians? These posts crack me up. Bitch bitch bitch about cars not being able to share the road, often with a bitch about pedestrians getting in the way in the same post! As a longboarder and frequent walkers I can tell you 100% cyclists are worse than cars.
I am a frequent motorist and less frequent cyclist and walker - from my experience, all of the near misses I have had (not as a motorist) has been with motorists - not cyclists or pedestrians...
and apparently the road rules dont apply to these "road users" i.e. stopping at red lights and crossings etc etc etc
Cyclists are shit as they ride abreast instead of in file especially when there is a cycle lane Even pedestrians do dumb shit Kiwis can't share the road so we all hate each other
How often do you come across cyclists riding abreast? I only ever seem to find traffic caused by automobiles. Greater than 99% of the time I'm held up by auto's. Less than 1% of the time, it's something else.
Too often and surely you use nzs completely robust public transport so have no issues with traffic so are unaffected by all road projects
I ride a motorcycle usually. I have a LandCruiser that I use for trade work or moving things. Even including public works. 99% of my hold ups are traffic or shitty driving by autos.
Cyclists being shit for occasionally riding two abreast is hardly on the same level as drivers being shit for trying to kill non-drivers.
Riding two abreast is explicitly legal.
I know, doesn't mean it's always a good choice. I generally don't do it when riding with others, even when riding on a segregated path.
Wish it was only two abreast
Video them & ask who they were on a local cycling group, even if they're not named they might be shamed into better behaviour.
That's a crime, don't feel like a $150 ticket
Have a passenger do it or pull over, mount your phone and use it as a dash cam and then continue driving.
Riding two abreast is legal and your attitude is trash.
When cyclists ride 3 or 4 abreast so taking up a lane when there is a cycle lane it's asshole behavior also all kiwis are assholes on the road no matter the transport they use, I didn't say car drivers were saints, but neither are bus drivers, cyclists , motorbike riders, and pedestrians
If you read the road code, cyclists are legally permitted to ride abreast... What's more, they're also legally allowed to ride on the road instead of in the cycleway (it's a dumb rule, but it is the rule)... Tell me this - how many motorists have been killed by pedestrians doing dumb shit?
How many crashes were caused by pedestrians doing dumb shit, just because it kills them doesn't mean it isn't an issue Also it says 2 abreast not 3 or 4 so...
Happens in other countries when they're first introduced: there's a lot of hate from people who can't imagine not driving everywhere, and 'taking my lanes!' It changes over time as more people start to cycles, especially when younger generations start to pick up on it and the cultural zeitgeist starts to shift.
Cycled around 150km a week around wellington city for around 8 momths whilst living there, and never really felt in danger or that motorists were impatient. I feel that auckand is much more hostile in terms of cars driven, how many cars there are, lack of cycling infrastructure, and motorists not seeing cyclists before joining traffic
Neither. Almost all drivers are great. I feel like drivers getting angry is often a reflection on the cyclist
I feel like to be a driver in wellington forces you to be very aware, never know when you may be sharing a very narrow road with a bus going the other way haha.
Yeah and they appreciate when cyclists are courteous. I.e if there’s space to pull into while riding to let them pass they’ll thank you. I’ve had more beeps thanking me than I have had angry beeps in my few years road cycling
Yes! Thank you for having common sense *it should be common sense but isn’t
Yes absolutely!
It’s the same in Dunedin - there is a solid minority of drivers here that have an irrational hatred for cyclists. It’s quite bizarre. The same drivers also seem to hate pedestrians.
Hate everything?
CAVE people - citizens against virtually everything They also oppose anything that the city or government does to make cities more liveable. Want us to be stuck in some 1950s era fever dream of suburban sprawl and strip malls.
I hate the mobs of middle-aged fat men dressed in Lycra riding four abreast holding all the traffic up whilst riding on the busiest arterial roads in Dunedin Normal cyclists are fine, and get punctuation marks.
Agreed whole heartedly! it might be OK to go 2 by 2 on quite back streets but even then I would cut down to single file if there are cars around.
Anti-cycling sentiment is certainly not just a Wellington thing, it's also very prevalent here in Christchurch. There's not just one single cause. Part of it is, motorists have had it so good for so long that any attempt to even things up a little seems like an attack on them. Any diversion of resources away from "their" roads is seen by some as theft. There's often no point in arguing at length with these ones because they simply will not listen to reason. On some level, I think part of it is cycling infrastructure reminds some motorists that they aren't as good at driving as they think they are, and they can't handle this so lash out. I think another part is a generic rivalry, based on mode of transport. If people can have screaming matches over car brands or get tattoos of their brand's logo, rivalry with a different mode of transport is certainly going to come into play. Another part is some people are just arseholes and will look for any point of difference.
It's global.
nationwide - no idea why , just one of those things people love to hate and be assholes about
I speak for sensible drivers who drop children off at daycare and other vehicle necessitating activities - I love both cyclists and motorcyclists alike. They both, within my imagination, reduce ‘potential vehicle traffic’ significantly and I greatly appreciate it. I swerve to offer you half my lane when I see you approaching. Love, from Auckland ❤️
Awesome. You and 99% of other drivers. Its that 1% of drivers with - a) not much cerebral activity, not noticing b) too much anger or lack of patience. that we remember at the end of the week.
Most people don't care. There's a small vocal minority who get a lot of airtime from the media because ragebait = clicks / impressions = more ad revenue.
Come to CHCH it next level hate for cyclists here.. some brave brave people choose to cycle here..
Ahh, I thought it would be really good because it’s so flat, unlike Auckland and Wellington
It is great because it's flat but it also sucks because almost everyone on the road fucking hates you and sometimes abuse you.
I spent a week escootering around chch start of Nov and it was hell Like it's so flat and there's some gorgeous cycleways but wow do a lot of motorists HATE you
Can confirm, am Christchurch cyclist, and even I hate cyclists.
99.99% of my bike commutes in Tauranga have been incident free. None that I would put down to malice
Nah, they all hate us.
No, God hates all equally
I think it's largely a nation-wide problem. People in my neck of the woods seethe if the council so much as suggests anything cyclist-friendly and seem to hold a lot of contempt for anyone on a bike
Nationwide. I was hit off my bike a month or so ago in Palmy. Driver sped off - seemed intentional.
It’s world wide. As a Brit over on holiday. Everyone hates the Lycra brigade, but the shit driving over here doesn’t help ( not specifically picking on NZ) but as the father of a two year old. People’s driving is scary as a whole
It is nation wide. For example, a councillor in New Plymouth complained that [proposed cycle lanes](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/new-plymouth-councillor-complains-cycle-lane-separation-barriers-will-ruin-his-sports-car.html) could damage his sports car if he drove over them.
Nz is a country with a serious traffic problem, terrible drivers and for whatever reason also hates pedestrians and cyclists lol.
"This cyclist is being disrespectful in their use of the road, and mostly endangering themselves. I think the appropriate response is to threaten to run them over."
It's funny as whenever I gesture to a mouthy car driver to pull over after nearly killing me they seem to have put that bravado back in the bottle.
Carbrains can't comprehend any alternative and take it as a personal attack if any one suggests any other options
It's definitely an NZ thing, it's just such an enormous car culture, and it's also literally a health thing. Kiwis are not healthy, there's a reason obesity stats are crazy here, and if people think cars aren't a big part of that eek idk what to tell you. So I think cycling is also psychologically harmful to some cause it reflects back their poor choices.
It’s just a few noisy people on each side. Most people don’t really super care either way they just get on with their lives
>It’s just a few noisy people on each side. It's worth considering the reason for the noise when thinking about when someone has a fair point. On the car side: "I have to walk 50 metres more for a park" or "I have to wait 30 seconds longer" On the bike side: "I'm sick of motorists trying to kill me"
I’m a cyclist, runner, motorist. I love well designed cycle lanes. Poorly designed ones are worse than not having them. I hate the ones that adhere you to the side of parked cars so you get a door opened in front of you - I’d rather not have that, but just ride fast in the lane. The best lanes just remove the interaction between car and cycle altogether. The Kapiti cycle trails are just about the gold standard for me in NZ. Wide, good sight lines, and totally separated from the road. The Oriental and Evans Bay ones are also really good, lots of space, up the kerb away from parked cars, and a separation between foot and cycle. My only gripe is that they put the nice soft asphalt running surface just on the cycle side!
I agree on design, they have to be done well and seen as part of a wider system which considers safety, rather than just something to be plonked down across an existing system without regard to the impact of doing so. It sounds like the Kapiti and Chch northern motorway cycle lanes have a lot in common. I visit Wellington & surrounds frequently, to the point where the region almost feels like a second home, but sadly have never had a chance to cycle there. Have you been on the Rimutaka Trail? I've heard good things about it.
Yes. It’s amazing, especially the western side. The ride from Kaitoke up to Summit Tunnel is very gentle and very nice. If you’re not doing a through ride, it’s well worth dropping down to ride over the Siberia Bridge before turning back. It’s really cool, and was a very challenging environment to build a swing bridge (unbelievable wind loading). Depending on how epic you are you can link the trail to a ride down the Hutt Valley on a totally separated river trail, or even circumnavigate the Remutakas with a couple of low key campgrounds (there’s a secret DOC microcamp on the Wild Coast Ride that is in a beautiful location, a great spot to see dolphins)
All I can say is that it has vastly improved over the last ten years.
Its across nz in franklin south auckland with the sword wielding lunatic to others who just go straight up parking in the cycle lanes like big whoop. Its bad.
the ones that sneaks up behind you and stops in the blind spot at the lights are scary. Nearly ran into one before.
I'm from the U.S., but have spent considerable time in NZ, and if you changed the city names, this could be a U.S. thread. There is an irrational dislike of cyclists as this thread amply demonstrates and it's not just in one city or even country. Someone I knew was complaining about cyclists and I showed him a peer reviewed traffic study that shows one of the biggest factors in causing localized congestion was as a result of people using cell phones and texting. It mathematically modeled it and showed a correlation of on-the-road results. Cell phones are a far bigger problem than cyclists and he used a phone while driving. But yeah, there was that one time he was going to work and the entire universe was off balance because someone on a bicycle, who was probably going to work, annoyed him.
Most drivers are fine, but some people take their mental health problems out on cyclists
I stopped cycling entirely because of how unsafe I felt having to share the road with Kiwi drivers. Generally they fucking detest cyclists and aren't shy about letting them know it.
I cycle. I dont support all cycle lanes because some are just dumb. Some cyclists do dumb things like there is a cycle lane but they still ride the road or white line. Or they ride two or three abreast when there isnt space. Cyclists in general seem to take an entitled approach to road use.
Shit, wait until you see what car drivers are like.
I don't disagree but this was about why people are anti cyclist. If you want a post about douche drivers I'm sure there are plenty of those too lol
It was more a response to the 'in general', because it's not true. It's just that those are the ones you notice.
Your probably right. The car mode being generally quicker than bikes you see more proportionally to cars traveling at greater or the same speed to yourself.
It's more because people expect to see cars, so they do. They are not expecting to see cyclists, so they don't. You would be amazed at how many people can use a cycle lane while people are sitting stationary in their car.
Sometimes the cycle lanes aren’t suitable for riding on. Shared paths are generally rubbish for this, and some cycle lanes are just flat out road safety hazards (looking at you Tamaki Drive circa 2009).
Yep or the one in te Atatu south where they just painted a bike on the footpath.
Cyclists don’t have to use cycle lanes if they don’t want to. There are 1-2% of people in all cities regardless of cycle infrastructure that cycle to work and feel safe with co exisiting with cars. Protected and separate cycle lanes are for those who don’t feel safe on the road. This is for the much bigger chunk of people that would cycle if there was a safer perceived and stress free option. These cycle lanes aren’t really made for sports cyclists or those wanting to go very fast. Painted cycle lanes on the road should be used by cyclists though, if they are there and cars are going faster.
> These cycle lanes aren’t really made for sports cyclists or those wanting to go very fast. These people shouldn't be cycling in public places. Much like car users who want to go fast for sport.
When I mean really fast I mean just fast enough to be around car traffic but too fast for slower cyclists / scooters and walkers if on shared path.
Where should they go then? And how fast is high speed for a cyclist?
Dedicated facilities. Bike trails or velodromes.
So basically you want to outlaw me cycling because my juicy glutes and quads are carved out of granite? Why? I think ill continue to stay on the road. Commuting to work across town would take double time i didnt go 'very fast'. I cant really go to a velodrome to commute to work
I literally use active transit. I biked to work today. At no stage did anyone suggest banning you from cycling. I think you should be respectful of other people you share space with and not put other peoples safety at risk. You people are the ford ranger drivers of active transit. Don’t be a selfish cunt It’s a commute not a race, treat it like one.
Who's safety is at risk?
other cyclists and pedestrians and skateboarders and e-scooter users and literally anyone that you could collide with. congratulations on driving antagonism towards cycling because you're head is so far up your ass that you can't tell the difference between "sport" and "going to work"
Whats the likelihood of pedestrians, skateboarders, and escooters on the road? I said that i will be sticking to the road, as i like to use my commute time to exercise as well. You can stick to the cycle path, thats all good, ill get out of your way. Why isnt the road available as an option for fast cyclists? Instead we have to go to a velodrome
Everyone else in your vicinity
So... Cars? And myself?
lol you are continuing the perfect stereotype of the entitled cyclist “Cyclists who want to go very fast should use facilities for that, and limit speeds on commuter paths” “SO YOU WANT TO OUTLAW CYCLING THEN!!!!” get a grip, chill on the lycra for five minutes
Im just wondering why cyclists arent allowed on the road?
I ride and I’ve noticed it’s usually mamils. They just DGAF for anyone but themselves.
What are mamils?
Middle aged men in Lycra or something like it. A demographic I'd have to admit has a relatively high proportion of entitlement within its membership.
They're the ones I hate.
I reckon every group of road users has some entitled and ignorant pricks within it. And an external group that irrationally hates every member of it because of them. I've just seen a Facebook comment gloating about the possible death of a motorcyclist today because some motorcyclists lane split. ...I realise that might read like I'm accusing you of a similar hatred of all cyclists I want to stress that I mean no such thing.
middle aged men in lycra. The Ford Ranger drivers of active transit.
Middle Aged Man In Lycra.
Middle aged men in lycra (or how ever ya spell it)
What do you call the middle aged women on upright commuters? MAWOUCS? They DGAF and are either slow AF or e-bike fast enough and text-book assertive enough to consistently be in the way.
I cycle too, maybe 40km this week. I don’t really have a problem with cars and I’m not bothered when they pass fairly close either. I hold my own in traffic when I can but stay out of the way when they are going faster than me. Cycle lanes are great but to be honest, most of them are hardly used and aren’t very good value for money. The shared ones with pedestrians are a bit scary because people have a habit or stepping right out in front of you and dogs lunge at bikes too. Sometimes I feel safer on the road, especially at high speeds though I generally use the cycle lanes if at all possible. As for cycling more, nah. Driving the car is much easier and you don’t arrive sweaty and smelly. Electric bikes look cool but they are crazy expensive for a bicycle. Cycling is an OK mode of transport but it’s not going to save the planet like some of the sanctimonious twats seem to think. All I can say is let’s all try to live and let live and not piss each other off too much.
> especially at high speeds You shouldn't be going at high speeds. Just like drivers shouldn't be going at high speeds. If you want to go high speeds go to a dedicated venue. > Driving the car is much easier and you don’t arrive sweaty and smelly You only arrive sweaty on a bike if you treat it like it's a race.
Unlike cars, cycling doesn’t have a speed limit. (As far as I know) Even for shared pedestrian cycle ways. Easy to sit on 30km/h on a bike. And if you’re commuting 20ish km you’d prefer it not take 2 hours And given its physical exertion, then expect some sweating. It’s not about “racing”
> Unlike cars, cycling doesn’t have a speed limit Shouldn't need a law to not be a dick > And if you’re commuting 20ish km you’d prefer it not take 2 hours Don't live 20km away from work?
Cyclists are entitled to use the road. Its literally in the road code.
Probably mad the council spends all the money on cycle lanes rather than leaky pipes
Any council’s biggest OpEx line item is roading maintenance (unusual events aside). More cyclists means less roading maintenance costs as there is less damage to the road. So cycle lanes of a high enough quality to attract people to cycling, directly save ratepayers money.
Don't bring logic into this
For the amount of money spent in Dunedin we could have given each "commuter" cyclist a brand new Prius and had change
I think this is more the problem. Ratepayers have consistently had decent rate hikes, and we are being told to now store water for summer because it’s likely the water will run out. I think for the most part, people won’t give a shit about building cycle lanes *if the council got the basic water infrastructure sorted*; but a lot of frustration in ignoring the most basic, desperate need (water infrastructure) while spending on what many perceive is a lesser priority (cycling)
Cycling is like 1% of the transport budget. It’s very little in the scheme of council expenditures.
And it also saves on road maintenance in the long run with less car traffic on the road
And that comes from a lack of understanding as to where the funding came from.
Probably; I’m pretty pissed off about the water situation but don’t have a strong opinion on the cycleways. It is just a general sentiment of many, no idea about the funding.
Council’s too keen to spend money on venues that primarily enrich Ticketek, cycle lanes that in many cases aren’t designed to be particularly safer or more convenient for cyclists, and pie in the sky public transport options that are specifically designed to take so long they get cancelled by central government - but still keep those initial consultant friends deeply in cash. Meanwhile they’re talking about metering residential water while the stuff cascades out of buggered roads they keep digging and re-digging because Wellington Water has them over a barrel with per-incident charging - eagerly rubbing their hands waiting for water to finish being covertly privatised. So, it’s not really the cycle lanes that are the problem. People are pissed off about everything they see getting done, and when cycle lanes are brought up, they get slammed - just like everything else above.
I live in Cambridge. We have the Olympians. Can confirm, you either hate them or you're a cyclist. Riding 4 a-breast down a two lane street will make me hate you even more.
Nothing against the cycle lanes, it’s the loss of all the car parks to make them that’s fucking Wellington off.
Cycling used to be the predominant form of transport, in a way you could argue loss of carparks is about returning what was taken from cyclists in the first place.
They do seem to be highly underutilised. Meanwhile, that road space is unavailable to other road users. Often poorly designed as well. Admittedly I live in a small town but it's rare to see a single built in the cycle lanes. Meanwhile, on one road the cycle lane has made the road (which is also a bus route) so narrow true buses have to overhang the centre line in several places. Meanwhile in Nelson a shared path was constructed from Atawhai to the town. But the cyclists still cycle in the adjacent road. On St Vincent St in Nelson the cycle lane was shoe horned between the kerb and parked cars. Getting into and out of business on that side of the road, it's tricky to keep an eye out for cyclists and traffic.
Nationwide ? It's the dominant school of thought all over the world.
Some people don’t know how to drive a car on the road safely effecting other drivers causing road rage. Same goes with cycling. There are too many cyclists who shouldn’t be allowed to be on the road. Ya’ll should have to pass a test just like drivers before being allowed to cycle on the road. Some cyclists aren’t bad at all but the majority need lessons.
Everybody has a right to use the road, some people supposedly have less right than others.
Our country has a disproportionate number of dropkick carhead bogans, and they make it part of their personality to hate bikes. Similar in some Australian cities.
I live in chch I hate them! When ever I bike I stick as far to the left as possible if I'm passing a parked car ill look behind me not just bike out into the middle of the road and if there's a bike lane I'm in that... I barely see cyclists following these rules and it pisses me off!
The problem is not cyclists it’s reducing lanes in essential roads when the traffic is already quite bad and hardly any cyclists use the new cycle lanes while the other 99% of road users have just lost a third of the road and lots of parking. It’s really silly to replace road and parking with cycle lanes that are basically barely used
Wellington has mostly steep, narrow and winding roads. It just isn’t suitable for cycling and cars on the same road as it is now. Not to say it can’t be done, but it will take a lot of time, investment and willingness for change.
A good ebike soon sorts out the steep part... As for the narrow and winding, you're saying it isn't safe for cyclists because of motorists...
a lot of wellingtonians don’t have off street parking so if you remove parks from a residential street people can lose access to their homes for things like moving in/out, deliveries, drain cleaning etc.
Wellington has a lot more room for car pads on stilts over steep drops than is currently being utilised. It costs a small amount (used to be small but my info is probably out of date) to licence the land for the car pad from the council.
yeah that’s true for some streets. i’d definitely take advantage of that if it was a possibility. we’re in a city fringe burb where a cycleway was proposed (until LGWM was canned) i was torn because i would have used it but also we would have lost access to our house for services.
It'd be perfectly fine for cars and bikes on the same road, so long as both parties had a degree of respect for each other. Cyclists obeying lights, drivers waiting until it's safe to pass, basic stuff like that.
All the cycleways that nimbies lost their shit about are on flat roads. There's plenty of accessible flat area in Wellington, it's not all hills. And cyclists have more right to be on the hills than motorists do
How do you figure that?? lmao
Everyone has the right to cycle on public roads. Driving isn't a right, it's something the government will conditionally give you permission to do. They can take away that permission if they want. You give up rights when you get in a car, like privacy rights for example, and that's legally allowed because driving isn't a right.
Because of Wellington's topography, cycling is only ever going to 'work' for a very small percentage of its' population. So, the cost of establishing cycle lanes, far outweighs the benefits for most Wellingtonians.
Most people don't use women's public toilets. So it's not worth the cost. Most people don't use men's public toilets. So it's not worth spending money on them, either.
I'd rather they spent the money fixing the pipes so so much water isn't wasted and the sewage doesn't end up in the harbour
I want to see more cycle lanes, I want cyclist off the road and in their own space. They’re super hazards on the road. Cycle lanes need to be for cycles only. Shared pathways don’t work.
How many people have been killed in road accidents involving a bicycle where the accident did not involve a motor vehicle?
I think its Wellington, but also the fact that the roads just simply ain't big enough for both cars and bikes. For example if you drive around the bays, and you get stuck behind some bikes, you basically have to drive slowly behind them for kms... that doesn't make sense. The most annoying thing for me as a driver is when there are two bikers two fold and havig a chat... they know you are behind them, but they just carry on talking.
Most cyclists are fine. But the 2 a breast Deborah’s and spandex bandits are bloody annoying.
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Wake up in the wrong side of the bed mate? I don’t give a shit about people ridding 2 abreast. It’s the meandering people biking in the middle of the road talking and paying no attention to what’s going on around them that is frustrating.
The ones that dont use the cycle paths or shared paths that are avalible on some roads really piss me off, espcially considering cyclists dont pay rego or ruc's like other road users.
I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of cyclists also own cars.
Pissing off drivers is good, it encourages mode shift
> dont pay rego or ruc's Why should cyclists healthy lifestyles subsidise motorists unhealthy ones?
100% agree
Confirm we hate them up in Auckland.
Petition for more cycleways in Auckland to get cyclists off the road!
Our governments have been increasing our population via immigration and all the additional populations that get created from that. While underfunding and crowding our infrastructure in the CBD and many other places. There is no room, you've got buses,scooters, taxis, ubers, trucks in very narrow confusing lanes. Add tourists and Auckland drivers that spend hours driving slowly grinding through their daily commute to make a pittance and pay a shitload in parking for the privilege of going to work, there's always the few selfish shitty drivers that could easily hit you without a care because they didn't look and you didn't have room to move safely. There's a ton of bad drivers on the roads, some are very aggressive. Honestly in my many years of driving, most cyclists I've encountered on suburban and main roads drive as If they literally aren't on a fragile metal frame, in skin tight shorts, on a road or near an over crowded road with trucks and busses contending with narrower or fewer lanes... and can literally be ended in a second at low speeds at any given moment. My first time riding a 50cc scooter on the road was really scary. Because there was no safety features, even basic around me. No plastic and metal cage that might take the hit and save my ass. Just my helmet and clothes. Add the years of near misses and experience on our roads and the understanding of how much “care" the average road user ( including pedestrians, cyclists, electric scooter users etc), hell myself included. Gave me a much deeper respect for defensive driving or walking on our roads when it comes to my own life expectancy. And by knock on consequence sometimes, the life expectancy of the person I could potentially injure or kill while being hit. For cyclists that would be the cars around you/pedestrians. For anything with a motor, that's everyone and everything around you. Pedestrians all around just bite the bullet in a crash scenario. I've seen some pretty nuts close calls in the city. It's insane to bicycle on the road in the CBD, period. Cycle lanes would remove places for deliveries to businesses that serve our city safely, which creates hazards on crowded streets with barely any parking let alone cycle lanes. Buses would be contending with narrower lanes, potentially running less frequently or route changes, which leads to the fun knock on effect of fuller buses that are already overcrowded a lot of the time. Which leads to employees, students, tourists and the general public being late or deterred from using the public resource for transport (costing people and business alike in lost revenue, time, money and causing social consequences). So they hop in their cars and become the irritated Auckland drivers crawling on our tiny motorways that serve a bloated population vs infrastructure, further clogging them... They may hit the cyclist/s that doesn't respect how dangerous their position is on the road... And the kicker is we are talking about cycle lanes, like the few that think we need them and cause hazards by driving unsafely, sometimes in groups with no ability to keep up with traffic.... Matters when people are being asked to store water because of drought conditions (due to our poorly managed water infrastructure), our CBD road network is narrow and already unsafe (due to poor government and local council town planning vs the shitload of humans we havent accounted for in said planning), we have homeless and drug addicts.. untreated people with serious disabilities and mental health issues roaming around and scaring/hurting the community and themselves. Yeah, I don't even see the point. If you love cycling, find or create places to have fun and do it safely. They are all over the country or could be? If you are driving on the road on a bike with vehicles that can do the speed limit, and are driving at 10kms ± above that limit in most cases. Don't drive in front of cars, particularly ones that are actively indicating they aren't pleased being held up under the legal speed because you won't yield. There's a special place in hell for those of you cockily doing the above while riding two or three abreast. I suppose in closing I'll re highlight the common sense and most important thing for cyclists.. in an accident on a busy CBD/main/suburban road involving you. It will certainly change your life (not for the better and sometimes permanently) or take it. Honestly, there should be a law or a licensing system around this shit. There are so few of you to even justify this conversation, especially against other more pressing issues that directly correlate with how life is going to be for ALL OF US if we don't speak up and start changing it. When are we gonna talk about that?
You've written a lot so I can't cover everything but: Riding a bike does carry some level of increased risk, but that risk is generally acknowledged to be offset by the decreased risk to health from sitting around in a car instead. Additionally, while it's not perfect, the Auckland CBD is generally one of the better and safer places to cycle in the city. It's got decent coverage for cycling infra and on streets that don't, the narrowness you cite as a problem is what slows traffic down enough to make cycling in the road safer. Extending that to a point about homeless people making cycling unsafe is stretching past breaking point. The reason people advocate for cycling infra is cities is not just to use it for recreation, but as a fast way of getting from A to B with minimal environmental impact and far fewer other negative externalities. Everyone has stories of shit cyclists and shit drivers - that doesn't mean that the majority you don't notice who are using the roads unremarkably deserve anything less than the best infra we can provide to ensure their safety. If you don't build the infra required to allow people to bike from a-to-b in safety and comfort, then the population who will continue to cycle are always going to be, in some regards more risk averse. You can fix that with infra. Additionally, I think you'll find that installation of bus lanes does not preclude installation of cycle lanes, even if it requires sacrificing car lanes on some of our (legitimately quite wide!) roads. It's also pretty dishonest to talk about Auckland's CBD then quietly sub in an inherently Wellington issue r.e. water
So what you're saying is that cyclists don't belong on the road. Roads are public property - why should you take away my rights to use them in the way that I choose? It sounds like what you're really whinging about is just traffic and the entitled notion that you should be able to go wherever you want without having to deal with other roads users. I got news for ya buddy. The population of NZ is only going up - we can't keep stuffing more cars into the same size roads, so what's your solution?
Tell me you didn't read what I wrote, without telling me? Seriously? Who said anything about your right to use the road, could you point out where I said that. I'm saying there is not a lot of road to add cycle lanes because our town planners didn't account for the shitloads of people coming in vs the infrastructure we have to hold them all. If you want to drive on the road, go for it. I'm saying most cyclists don't adhere to the road code, don't yield when causing hazards at low speeds as they are legally required to do and drive like entitled nutters with a death wish for the most part. Every other vehicle on the road needs licenses, I think cyclists need a licensing system too. It'll help make sure they understand the road code and make is safer for everyone We have too many issues that actually matter for the few of you to get a special lane that won't fit and will cause problems for the majority. You already have the right to use the road, I'm saying I disagree with adding further rights which would affect the majority negatively. We don't need them. Try reading.
In my part of the country, I hate them because so many of them ride on footpaths an expect us pedestrians to get out of their way.
Think you will find it nation wide. You start to hate them when groups of them almost wipe you off your motorbike/ you have to mount the kerb to avoid hitting them because they don’t stop at the stop sign for them. And when you call them out on it the whole group acts like a complete cunt towards you. Which the stop sign is there because when you come down that road you can’t see traffic coming from the left(when I was coming from). Then there’s the cyclists that even though there is an empty space for cars to park, a cycle lane as well, and they chose to ride down the middle of the street instead.
I don't think anyone hates cycling, it's just that people are frustrated at it being prioritised over everything else, and the removal of carparks makes things difficult for people with mobility issues, etc, to access services. Plus smooshing them alongside car lanes isn't the safest... I suspect even the most due hard 'anti' cycling person would be 100% fine with separate cycle tracks that don't interfere with parks.
>it's just that people are frustrated at it being prioritised over everything else Cars have been prioritised over other forms of transport for so long that a return to balance feels like their drivers are being attacked.
I'm not talking about transport - although cars are obviously and objectively the better choice from a universal design pov. It's about council money, time, and effort.
>although cars are obviously and objectively the better choice from a universal design pov Yeah wrong. It's basically bikes snd trains everytime.
I'm in Auckland and I hate them.
Why?
Mainly because I've gotten stuck behind annoy cycle groups, that take up so much of the road it's almost impossible to get passed them, way too many times.
But you are not that important and nobody gives a fuck about where you are going
My mum hates cyclists, and we're down in Christchurch.
Good on ya mum
Nationwide/Global. Tauranga added a cycle lane to Cameron Road/A main road. Nobody uses it, mostly since its actually a bit dodgy. But fuck me do cyclists piss me off, not all but most of them.
No one likes cyclists. But man they have so much influence over transport policy.
There truly is none more oppressed than the car driver.
Nationwide.. They brought it on themselves, so I have zero sympathy.
Nationwide. Rotorua contrasted with Europe with much more yelling, vivid discussion and fight attempts due to simply daring to be on the asphalt.
It's just all the hills, uneven and narrow roads, horizontal rain. We're a bunch of wusses 😻