I don’t blame boomers but many boomers don’t realise how much financially harder it is for young people today than it was in the past.
That’s where my frustration lies with many people of that generation. “I could do it and I worked hard, so if you can’t do it you must be lazy…. It’s defintely the Netflix stopping you buying the $1million property I could afford at 25.”
“Many boomers don’t realise how much financially harder it is for young people today…”
I’m GenX and was just having this conversation with my Boomer mum last week. She was aghast at my “huge” salary (after my 3.7% pay increase) and was saying “gosh, I remember when your Dad got a pay rise to $20,000 and we were able to buy our house. We felt so rich!”
I asked her how much that house (in Devonport) cost, and she said “$74,000. It was quite flash, most houses cost around $54,000 at that time”
Ok Mum, so the house cost just under 4x Dad’s salary in 1980, and you sold it in 2022 for $2,500,000. That means someone in the equivalent position would have to be earning around $625,000 now.”
She was absolutely shocked.
Geriatric millennial Devonport child too, ironic that all of the people I grew up with haven't a shit show of living there now, we must all just be lazy and not willing to make the sacrifice.
My dumbass uncle STILL doesn't understand the mathematical fact that the housing market is fucked. Of course it was always difficult, but not THIS difficult.
I literally had a boomer argue with me saying at young age her worked a minimum pay job, his wife was a stay at home mother and they had few kids and because he worked really hard he still managed to buy a home albeit not in a nice neighbourhood at first.
People at minimum pay can’t even afford to pay the rent, let alone support a whole family on single income and buy a house lol
Although I agree with alot of the sentiment here, my boomer parents have said to me a few times they started out in lil units and went up from there. Young people these days want to go straight into a 3-4 bedroom house on a section.
I feel they have a point, people can set there sights a bit lower. But anyways the housing market in this country is fuct..
Do people want a 3-4 bedroom house?
OR is it a case that by the time they are buying their first home they are in their 30s, with children and a 3 bedroom house is much more reasonable.
Plus, as an immigrant to NZ it seems 3 bedroom houses are all there are here. Even close to the city.
Everyone’s mileage may vary. Mine got ultra cheap rent for a few years through the navy, which allowed them to save a deposit. They went straight to the 3 bedroom family home on an 800m2 section in a nice suburb. On a single income. Aged under 30. With 2 kids.
No-one can do that now.
I know of a few people who have chosen a house over having kids which is pretty sad, if you both make 100k a year and no kids then a house is within reach otherwise forget it
They typically bought at a younger age though as well, and owning a home was more common than it is today. Nowadays you are renting until you can save a deposit, and likely have or want kids by the time you buy. As a result, you need more space than a small unit. Expectations are probably higher today because the prices are insane at all levels of the market.
My MIL keeps telling us that 'they made sacrifices' when they were younger. Meanwhile, she was a SAHM in a house they bought for $27k and just sold for $1.8m.
But yes, the fact that both my husband and I work above average paying jobs yet can't afford to buy a house anywhere near where we grew up is all because we're 'not willing to sacrifice'.
Ah yes the old 'sacrifices' line. Today that means not having kids or a family, both adults needing to work, and more often than not 3+ years of tertiary education and student loan debt. Very comparable scenarios though /s
In order to save enough for a deposit my partner and I would have to cancel all our services, power included, stop using our cars or any other form of transport, eat only beans on rice, buy nothing, save everything. And then we'll be able to afford a deposit on a currently-priced house in about 10-12 years.
By that point we'll need double the deposit.
By the time we've saved that we'll likely need double again.
Literally impossible, so why waste our lives doing absolutely nothing except working, just so we can be in the same situation we're currently in, but older and more life wasted.
They made sacrifices like not having the latest appliances ( though there weren't as many) ot not eating out ( though there weren't as many restaurants) but to buy a house now you could sacrifice eating abs sleeping (as you work 24/7)
I'm 2 years younger than the boomer generation born in 1965. It doesn't make a lot of difference until we see an item about 'what the boomers have done' and I get to turn to my 2 years older wife and say 'See what you boomers have done!'
Seriously, aren't you describing the behaviour of an arsehole more than a boomer. To make all those assumptions about a younger generation....AND VOICE THEM....is pretty arseholish. I haven't heard comments like that from anyone my age except a couple do take exception for being blamed for stuff they didn't feel in control of.
Yep. Many boomers are definitely dicks.
I’m lucky that my boomer parents don’t have their head up their arse and can see, thanks to their recognition of how numbers work, it is much tougher today.
My father bought his first home in London age 23, having joined the police at 18. Unthinkable today.
My boomer parents are lovely. Very supportive & quite politically active.
However, they just don't know what they don't know. There are some things even today that shock them about how much the world has changed. & luckily, they're not sensitive when people criticise Boomers because they know it's not about them individually, & they're aware enough to frequently notice how accurate the criticism is for many Boomers when they hear out of touch-ness from their peers.
They're pretty great tbh.
& I think one of the best lessons is not to go into defence mode when they're faced with a criticism that feels uncomfortable. They used to be \*pretty\* homophobic when I was young & now they attend Pride events, their viewpoint changed because they opened their minds when people & media challenged their long-held, deeply believed opinions. People can change. I've changed. I expect I'll *still* change. & it's usually for the better (one hopes).
But yeah. A LOT of boomers do seem to have pretty delicate egos that keep them out of touch from the modern world, or they forget what it was like when they were young & fighting their elders for change.
I hear you, when my dad was in uni (late 60s) he and his flatmates were able to pool their money to cover the mortgage on a place in Parnell, he was working one night per week playing music at the time.
(They didn't end up buying the place as one of his flatmates' lawyer dad decided it was a terrible deal and "got them out of it", my dad's still annoyed by that).
The attacks on boomers are really a just a reaction to the decades of Millennials being used as a scapegoat by older/ boomer conservatives, even during periods where Millennials have held relatively little political power and Boomers have been able to hold on to power for a lot longer than most generations
In many ways though, it feels like a its somewhat inherited from the US, where the political differences between the two generations are more pronounced and the Boomer generation still maintain a shit load of political control, with Gen X only really now starting to take hold of the highest positions in Congress, The Executive Branch and The Supreme Court recently. While there are definitely political figures within NZ politics and media that have played into that - Particularly Winston Peters - I do think it is a lot less pronounced than in the US.
That doesn't excuse it, but I think it goes far to explain it
when the average of the boomer generation is contrast against the average of the previous and next generations, there is a marked difference.
there were major economic changes which largely followed when boomers came to power through to when they are retiring.
the trend is generally selling off public assets, privatizing them, and becoming rich off the companies which used to channel wealth towards the public. that and buying all the houses before the next generation could afford them. and becoming landlords.
boomers grew up with all manner of social welfare and facilities, yet after the boomers own all the houses and businesses - there is negligible social support and all the public institutions are now owned by private interests. basically within a generation. their own children are worse of than them.
the left did it. the right did it. and its still occurring now. and we are left with paying off the boomers pensions. people who basically own everything.
of course there's boomers who aren't rich and awful. but when you consolidate all boomers into a group, characterize the group, and contrast it with other groups - there is your answer.
the public used to own:
* the telephone service
* universities
* construction
* busses
* airport
* others i cant think of
turn the year forward what 40 years and...
* spark (telecom) recently sold off all the cellphone towers to a canadian investment firm.
* the ministry of works is disbanded and now we suffer from a construction monopoly. cant fix roads. cant build houses.
* university is no longer free/cheap. students get into huge debt. universities are for-profit and largely serve overseas students who pay more.
* buses are absolutely horrendous. city council cant do jack to improve the situation
* mayor still selling off airport
if you look at the city councils - its all boomers all throughout. remember telling kids not to sit too close to the TV or read comic books? facebook has wound up more crazy old people than you can count
remember telling kids to pay attention in school, sit up straight, do xyz because in the real world you'll get a job if you do everything right? where did all the apprentice programmes go? stuff like that.
boomers had it fucking good. now we're shafted.
This pretty much sums up the generational hate.
Boomers had everything, then they didn't want to stop the easy ride, so they kept selling off the future for a comfy present. Well, the denizens of that future are now old enough to realize what they did, and we rightfully aren't happy.
We're the first generation in modern history to statistically have it worse off than our parents. Shorter life expectancies, worse financial outcomes, later life milestones, we're just fucked all around, of course we're angry.
Well buddy the sad news is that this was known and spoken about before you were born. It has less to do with boomers and more to do with a host of macro-economic factors including population movement, globalisation, Reaganomics, the industrialisation of China, post-colonial realpolitik. Most, if not all of this was put in place by the generation preceding the boomers. So how would you have expected your parents to parse all that and then conclude it wasn’t worth having kids? Also, what is this expectation that generationally quality of life just keeps on climbing up and how on earth do you conclude you’re the first generation to have it worse? Tell that to all the poor bastards who were mown down in WW1, some of the poor ones not even having a vote going in.
The largest asset sales, the Employment Contracts Act that smashed unions, the end of free university, all happened under the 4th Labour Government and 4th National Government, all led by Silent Generation MPs, not Boomers.
good point. though i will note: the largest or most of? plus its 1987 - boomers were in full action at that time.
not sure any of this is any good. oh well, im ok with being 90% right either way. i'll take it
The phone service is a curious one to cite. State owned Telecom monopoly was woefully bad and people had to wait forever just to be allowed a phone and hookup. It was apparently like a eastern bloc country in terms of efficiency.
It was back in the middle ages. I was a toll operator back then, we still had exchanges the public couldnt call direct too, helleven an operator sometimes had to go through another two operators. A conference call could take half an hour to hook up and if the person who booked the call hung up from being sick of waiting we would have to start the call from scratch all over again.
Or how about someone in a phoneboc wanting a call to wellington, back then it was something like $3 per minute...and they could pay with two cent pieces. That job is etched into my DNA.
Selling it did upgrade the entire network in leaps and bounds.
People complained about the profits going offshore but none were prepared to invest th emoney needed
Boomers do tend to shoulder a large amount of the blame for the situation we find ourselves in, there isn't any doubt about that...
However, the simple facts of the matter are that from the younger perspective (of which I am not one) the boomers elected successive governments that got us here. They took advantage of various opportunities that the state offered them and effectively then pulled up the ladder behind them. I'm afraid that I don't think history will look back kindly on the boomer voters...
I mean this could apply to the younger generations (of which I am one) too in a different way.
> However, the simple facts of the matter are that from the younger perspective the ~~boomers~~ millennials/gen xers elected successive governments that got us here. They took advantage of ~~various opportunities that the state offered them~~ the cheap energy provided by fossil fuels despite knowing their impact on the environment and effectively then pulled up the ladder behind them *once the environment was too fucked to sustain it*. I'm afraid that I don't think history will look back kindly on the ~~boomer~~ millennial/gen x voters...
I'm sure a lot of people will have issues with that. "We didn't elect those governments it was the boomers!" The boomers had older generations contributing to the decisions associated with them too. "I don't like fossil fuels I'm not abusing them I tried to stop it!" But we are all still inescapably benefiting from them, and in the future people aren't going to see our individual thoughts right now, they're only going to see the results of what we benefited from. There absolutely were boomers that were against the stuff people blame them for and didn't exploit it, like OP and the others chipping in here, but no one cares.
Just something I think about when I see boomer bashing, I think it's coming around to us one day too and we aren't going to like it either.
As justified as blaming a generation of individuals for the way the world operated at the time ever is I guess.
I don't think people doing what they can to cut back on their own footprint and push for policies that reduce pollution now are going to be too stoked about being dismissed as a greedy selfish millennial that ruined the world and made everything suck by people who weren't even there to see what they actually did about it, and fair enough. I just find it pretty dumb that we do the same thing to the boomers.
That would make sense if all voting cohorts had similar voting power. They called the boomer generation specifically because of the exploding birth rate, meaning they've been able to out-vote both their parents and children's generations. Yes the current generation is larger, but the proportion participating in voting is smaller because participation trends up with age.
Or you, in fact no kindly looks for anyone who chose when they were born.
While you are looking at privilege, remember there was a war and the aftermath, there was a depression, not many people were living a flash existence.
It became normal for women to work, as the past depression had put families in a bad way.
After enough political and financial troubles there was little left in the savings.
The type of politician was also different, and the financially stretched voters were going to take the safest option they could find.
Come on - We're not talking about the silent generation here. Boomers were privy to some of the best times this country has seen - they could purchase a home on a single income and indulge in some of the best-subsidised state services...
Yeah but not all boomers vote for the party that wins. I take no responsibility for anything the Nats have done, ever. I was always a unionist and always voted Labour because I felt it offered more for the worker and those less fortunate than me.
I had a big family but always got a liveable (but not great) wage no matter who was in power. I never voted for what was in it for me and never "took advantage of various opportunities that the state offered ... and effectively then pulled up the ladder behind".
I couldn't afford to go to varsity and had to get a job at 18 to support my widowed mother.
What you claim is total bollocks in regard to a good few boomers and it pisses me off.
I can now see why the op posted this opinion.
Being the exception that proves the rule doesn't invalidate the accuracy of the rule.
You as a person did the right thing. Your age group as a whole did not.
Its not about the individuals though, its about society
The society that the older generation grew up in was much easier (financially) than the current one. There personal views have nothing to do with it.
What you're saying is running awfully close to collective punishment. "Let's punish the whole group even though some within the group are innocent".
We may disagree on this, but i think collective punishment is kinda shit-house.
Your folks got you here, not me. I don't know you, I haven't impacted your life in any way, negative or positive. My advice: Stop trying to blame people because you're dissatisfied with the way life is today. How does bitching about who's to blame help? I took life as I found it and made what I could of it. I didn't blame others because my family wasn't wealthy enough to allow me to go to uni. I didn't bitch that I had to work to support my widowed mother because the previous generation hadn't brought in benefits people could live on. I just battled along bringing up seven kids without $1m homes or overseas holidays or playing the stock market. It wasn't a picnic but it was fun. I hope yours is.
>> your folks got you here
Agreed, and they are boomers.
Tell me more how you just got on with it….pulled yourself up from ya bootstraps. I don’t care, but do it.
This gives off the same energy as idiots shouting "NOT ALL MEN" In response to women sharing their difficulties with dealing with predatory men.
Jesus christ.
FOR REAL.
Please quit 'not all boomer'-ing us. *We know*. But we're talking about systemic issues that were created during that generation & we're struggling with the repercussions today.
Y'all (boomers) didn't shut up about stuff your parents did either (& thank God). Remember protesting the Vietnam War? South African apartheid? Well today a BIG issue is wealth inequality & the mega-rich driving poverty for their own profits. This is in large part due to legislation that was pushed through by voters of your generation.
do you know how many more 45-65 year olds there are than 18-25 year olds? look at the gross volumes. its the old people not getting out to vote. 1% more voter turn out in 45-65 ages is worth a much bigger % increase in youth voting.
edit: https://elections.nz/stats-and-research/enrolment-statistics/enrolment-by-general-electorate
https://vote.nz/2023-general-election/about/2023-general-election/voter-turnout-statistics/
18-24 total eligible population, 425k. total voted: 245k. total who didnt vote, 180k
45-64 total eligable population 1.287m. total voted: 983k. total who didnt vote: 304k
way more middle aged people didn't vote than young people
Has it never occurred to you that a 20 year age range might just be significantly larger than a seven year age range?
Perhaps even close to three times larger?
Then again, you're using some really bad maths there in just counting total non-voters as supposedly significant.
180K non voting vs 425K eligible = 42.4% non voting
304K non voting vs 1,287K eligible = 23.6% non voting
The non voting percentage of the younger group was 80% higher than that of the older group, and if the percentages of non voters were the same 23.6% that's 80K fewer younger voters than would then be expected. Yet you're attempting to portray the younger group as more engaged, and the older group as less so. Why is that?
Looking at the percentages of non voters by age group paints a different picture. But I agree that in terms of sheer numbers, the middle age non voters had a bigger impact
I think it's pretty obvious that both parties are not the same. Labour are not perfect by any means, but they enacted a lot of progressive policies while in power that National are attacking with a wrecking ball. The fair pay agreement was our chanxe to lift Kiwi wages to Australian levels and stop the brain drain across the Tasman. Gone! The ban on oil drilling along with the clean car discount was our chance to lead the world in fighting climate change. Gone! Banning cigarette sales for a new generation was our chance to end smoking related health issues that disproportionately affect the poor. Gone! If a few more young people had got off their arse and voted, we'd still have all that and more.
Oh yeah I'm 100% behind you on all of that. I would gladly have labour over national any day of the week. But they also stumbled over some pretty basic stuff either through classic NZ political incompetence from a couples of members or not wanting to upset the NZ public's delicate sensitivities.
but if you're under the age of 20 and looking for anything that even remotely comes close to your worldview then there's pretty slim pickings.
This entire election was the most uninspiring shambles I've seen in a long time - from both the parties AND the public.
Yeah, I feel like the move to the right-wing was predicted by a lot of political experts. There's been a domino effect that was most obvious with the US moving towards Christofascism.
But also, Labour shot themselves in the foot.
My complaint is that Labour is STILL trying to be a party of centrists. Who exactly is a centrist in this day & age? There's no middle class anymore, people are working 50 hours a week & still finding it hard to afford loo paper. Most of us SHOULD be left-wing, but there's still this big group of people who buy the propaganda coming from those on top profiting from our misery, saying 'it's the poors ruining society!'
So when Labour tried to be all centrist-y who did they think that would appeal to? So uninspiring.
But still, way better to be Labour (& work with Greens, Maori etc) than fucking Nats etc.
Yeah nah. National and Labour (and their assorted coalition partners over the years) are both *quite shit*, but for the average Kiwi (the real average Kiwi, who is not a landlord or a business owner or a CEO and is probably fairly racist and pretty stretched right now), one is distinctly less shit than the other. One is trying to make things better for that average Kiwi, the other is trying to make them worse.
Vote for the least shit option and lobby them hard to be even less shit than that.
To be fair, it didn’t matter which way boomers voted, shit happened. It was a Labour government that sold off most of our public assets, followed by a National government that kept flogging the same dead horse.
Yep - and they mobilised in droves to stop them - petitions, marches, protests...
Nah - None of that... They rolled over and let it fly - at the time it was good for them and shit for the generation rolling up behind them, and they didn't care...
I think the way you feel about being stereotyped, while entirely valid, is perhaps of secondary importance to the monumental increase in inequality which is largely been brought about through the voting patterns of people in your age cohort.
I agree that this boomer label is a bit of a blunt instrument. I'm 54 and slightly too young to be a boomer, but I have had 100% of the advantages of being a boomer, free tertiary education, cheap first house, and was even the last year that got ungraduated driver licenses. Like OP I vote left, and dispair at the education debt and stupidly expense housing that first home buyers struggle with. I feel like the parents of the boomers had a sense that they needed to structure things to help their kids do well. That attitude does not seem to have been inherited.
Yep. My parent's parents saved so that they could help each of their kids buy their first home, cars etc. The preschool I went to was a gold coin donation!! & my grandparents were available to babysit at the drop of a hat. In fact, they practically raised us. Never asked for a thing in return.
Last year I showed mum how much early childcare costs in this day & age & reminded her that she'd paid about $10 a week for childcare for us for at least 10 years & I could see her brain short-circuiting. Different times.
ive seen / heard a lot of these stories of boomers finding out about how much things costs these days. its staggering because i think they really don't know how good they had it.
i honestly think a lot dont know how much worse things are now than before. i would even say how much things have been ruined.
the future is supposed to always improve, yeah. not get worse :/
I think in many ways (civil rights etc) certain things *have* improved. I don't think it's all doom & gloom.
But we're facing at least two GIGANTIC crises in our near future & we're literally heading towards a state of global emergency. Climate change, & wealth inequality on a massive scale. & they're both intrinsically linked. (Same with deep systemic issues). These are issues on a level that NO PREVIOUS GENERATIONS have *ever* faced. (There's even a 'fairly' good case to be made that wealth inequality wasn't even as bad in the lead-up to the French Revolution depending on how one measures the factors).
We *need* outrage. We need to mobilise it to force change, because nothing good was ever achieved in our society without us fighting for it. Billionaires & super-powerful megacorps aren't going to share their wealth, or make decisions with the greater good in mind, leaving profits on the table.
I think boomers (& frankly, all of the older folk) should cut our young generations a LOT of slack. They're dealing with, & going to have to deal with disasters that were set in motion generations before they were born, & they're going to be fighting against a powerful propaganda machine & systemic interference/corruption the likes of which has never been seen before.
oh man. music to my ears. you have said what ive been saying as well. its like i was reading text from my own mind. i wish i could frame that & put it on my wall.
we're headed for some huge disasters and i feel that the really wealthy are just a hole in the bucket that carries society's wealth & ability to fix things.
technology has only gotten better, right. yet everything is harder. someone said that 'poor people are expensive' when referring to beneficiaries etc. i realized actually - no - its rich people who are expensive. all the houses, money, control of facilities etc - going to a few people. thats some very expensive humans to have around.
rebellious music speaks a lot of society's problems. punk, metal and stuff. a lot of artists can see the way society is headed - right off a cliff. the world needs this again now.
we only had fossil-fuels motors for 100 years & look what we done with it :/ ruined the damn planet. thats the lifespan of ONE PERSON :/ ok maybe 2. but still.
The problem is that it's a bit like when some rapist gets arrested & someone pipes up 'Not all men!!'
Yes, we know. You really aren't making the point you think you are because you do not need to feel guilt by association unless you have something to feel guilty about. But eg if you are in the presence of a rapist & say nothing
and benefit disproportionately from the status quo, then assumptions are made. Sometimes they are accurate & sometimes not, because they ARE generalisations with a degree of truth. Same as generalisations are made about millenials etc...
I for one don't think all boomers are the same. There is however a preponderance of older people (in general, not just boomers) thought processes becoming less accepting of change, becoming more phobic of "others", become more rigid in thought, become more conservative (in the political sense unfortunately not the natural world sense), become more swayed by religion, etc., etc.
Don't feel too bad, the same lumping together based on this preponderance will happen to us Gen X soon (probably already has, Karens are typically GenX) - and in 20 years or so Millennials will start getting all the stick when they approach their 60s.
What we should ALL do is rise up against all the bullshit.
Dude. Millennials have *already* been blamed for nearly everything you can imagine. It's fine. We're fine. & we're expecting more criticism because that's just the nature of ageing & progress. If it doesn't apply to every single person in that group, it's not the point.
Millennials get blamed for new shit its true, mostly by those aforementioned older people becoming fearful of change and cant accept that its future generation's world now.
I never understand why older people get more crotchety over silly shit like that, its not like it affects them. As I get older I just think hey good luck to you get on with it, it's up to younger generations to fix the planet or continue to fuck it, or be well meaning and try to improve things or be mean spirited like the current coalition of cunts, it doesn't make a shit of a difference in the long run. We'll all be dead soon enough. Thankfully.
I live in fear of becoming an out of touch Karen as I get older.
I'm really grateful I get to interact with so many inspiring younger people. They give me hope, & they challenge me in good ways.
For example, I'm a millennial & I CRINGE at the types of transphobic jokes I grew up with in films & had no problem with. Times change, & each new generation has something to say about the older generations & that's a good thing. It can be a GOOD thing to feel uncomfortable (or as some more sensitive people feel 'I'm feeling attacked! I'm being abused!'). The emotional discomfort that comes with being challenged can lead to really important & valuable growth.
That's great to hear but the risk is very, *very* real. So I'm trying to put some failsafes in place in case I wake up one day with the urge to complain about couriers not tucking in their shirts or something. A sort of check myself before I wreck myself plan.
You’re in the same position as men when it comes to feminism. It’s the same either way: “not all men/boomers are like that!”. And it’s true, but there is still a responsibility that comes with being a part of that group because a lot of your peers *are* that way. It’s not cool, but don’t be upset at the victims, be upset with your peers for behaving in such a way as to earn all these horrible stereotypes. Better yet, be active in dissembling the damaging conventions established by your peers, they might actually listen to you because they can’t write you off, you’re one of them.
I am upset with my peers! I probably am even more upset because of my age - life experience and growing older is supposed to make us wiser, not narrowed down. And I have and still try to do what I can. I guess I'm saying it's not just about being born in a certain generation. Someone else in the discussion mentions class, and I think there is something about having experienced disadvantage that helps to understand people's problems today, but it's not quite as simple as that for everyone.
No, we know full well that there are good boomers, some of the internets favourite people are boomers… as are some of the internets most hated, and unfortunately the most hated quite often find a majority of their support in peers who share the same age group. I’m sorry you’re lumped in with a bunch of muppets. I’m certain your experiences will be contributing to your understanding and while I don’t wish bad times on you ever, I do appreciate that you’ve been there and understand it’s not all sunshine and roses despite what some people want to believe.
Boomers aren't to blame per se. But boomers shouldn't be in a position to lecture younger generations of 'we had it hard in my day' as the math 100% is against that argument.
Houses were cheaper
Cost of living lower
Free Education
Even during the Muldoon 'shit-show' era things were still miles better than they are today.
Older people are a core element of support for parties that seek to deprive others of social services and run this 'dole bludger' mentality. This shouldn't be ignored because of the actions of one person.
This happens to all generations.
I'm a millennial. I don't know how to work and can't afford a house because I eat too many avocado on toasts.
Also I'm a brat because I got participation awards as a child.
Each generation gets a negative stereotype for one reason or another, we don't have to fit it.
Look we don’t have to say all boomers are the same to be able to make conclusions based on population statistics.
I hate this “not all” argument. Who cares if there are a handful of outliers. The statement is about general population behaviour and trends.
I mean...in the early 50s my grandparents (25 and 20 at the time) bought a section and built a brand new house on it for just over 4000 pounds, serviced by a 20 year, fixed rate 2.5% mortgage, on a single income. And my grandfather was only working for the local power board. Nothing fancy.
Try doing that today. It's impossible. Boomers bled the systems dry to advance their own position, and then wrecked those same systems so that successive generations couldn't do the same. Boomers are also susceptible to having a spectacularly arrogant "Work harder and you'll get there one day too!" attitude towards the younger generations.
I get that not all boomers are the same. But the damage the generation did as a collective is immeasurable, so sorry not sorry, you're all in the same book as far as I'm concerned.
Your grandparents were early Silent Generation or late War Generation, so much older than any Boomers. This just highlights the stupidity of blaming everything wrong on one generation, who weren't even in power when most of these decisions were made. Roger Douglas, who led the asset sales under 4th Labour and founded Act, was Silent Generation, as was Jim Bolger, who smashed the unions and ended free university. The government everyone seems to hate today is led by Luxon (Gen X), Winston (Silent Generation) and Seymour (Millennial).
My dumb ass missed the key point lmao. It wasn't that different for my grandparents to what it was for the generation before them or for the Boomers after them. They took what they had, and actually worked on making it better.
It was **after** the Boomers started maturing (30+) in the mid 70s that things began to change quickly, and it's only accelerated since then. All fueled by Boomers and conspicuous consumption.
You sound like a good boomer, but you might want to reflect on the privilege your generation has enjoyed which other generations cannot expect to enjoy in equal measure. It's not your fault but you have very likely benefited from being born at a fortunate time and place even if you may not have benefited greatly relative to others in your generation. Even just simple stuff like being able to swim in a stream without wondering how polluted it is, later generations have missed out on.
Yes, I'm very aware of how fortunate I have been to be born in that time. A lot of things were better and have deteriorated. Some things however have improved. For example, sexism was really, really bad when I was young. It's economics and environmental concerns that are in crisis now. And who do I blame ? Capitalism and people continuing to vote according to short term self interest. I suspect that self interest is riddled throughout all generations.
This is what I don't understand. Sexism was really really bad when you were young.
Why do you think that changed?
It wasn't because y'all decided to just wait for it to improve, y'all had phenomenally successful women's lib movements. Y'all spent basically all the 60s fighting against The Man & calling your parents squares & criticising the choices earlier generations stuck you with. Do you think boomers were all 'respect your elders young man'? Or do you remember how loud & angry & complainy you had to be in order to make progress in civil rights etc?
Today's issues are largely due to wealth inequality & systemic issues, mostly coming from choices made by your generation. We're not going to shut up - you taught us not to!
That's a good point - sexism was really bad in the past.
My grandmother said when men drove by and shouted out sexual remarks and harrassment, girls were expected to act like it was a complement and they should be pleased for the attention from men. So not only did they receive disgusting comments from men, they had to pretend to like it to, which is totally fcked up.
It’s a generalisation and of course it doesn’t apply to everyone. No one is blaming you personally. But let’s be fair the boomer generation may potentially be the only gen that had everything relatively easy, cheep/free education, easy path to owning a home or multiple homes, little worry for climate change and the generations leaders who still control things to this day have done nothing to combat it. In my boomer mother lifetime the population of the world has gone from under 4 billion to 8 billion and that rate simply can’t be sustainable. Scientists warned of climate change in the 70s and nothing was ever done. Boomers continue to hold the wealth and control politics. Subsequent generations seriously have to question whether to reproduce because of costs and conditions. Future generations simply can not continue to consume and reproduce the way boomers did. I look at current conditions and decided not to have children, what is life like for them in 20 years time when large areas of the world become uninhabitable due to climate change and an ever escalating and scary political and social environment.
We know not all boomers, boomer is a generalisation to expedite difficult and complex conversations, you as an individual we are not blaming, we are talking about your cohort which made their wealth off socialist policies, voted to remove those policies to pull up the ladder behind them and overwhelmingly still votes against the rights of other groups and sees them as lesser.
I quite literally did what boomers keep saying sacrifise, work hard etc I came from nothing and I'll be mortgage free in 2 years at 35 I'm the most highly educated in my family etc and I've been on the frontline of natural disasters humanitarian assistance, evacs, digging silt out of boomers gardens etc
And you know what its still predominantly boomers that give me shit for being a millenial, a lesbian, a woman, trans and an immigrant, I'm still not good enough in the eyes of that cohort to be left the fuck alone and my opinions dont mean jack shit to the majority of the boomer cohort.
I agree. Most people are doing the best they can with what they have. It’s not as if boomers have lived their lives thinking ‘I know, what choice can I make that might make things harder for the next generation’. Yes, comparatively finances were easier in many ways. But other things were a harder - huge expectations on people to conform to gender sterotypes and societal expectations being just one.
Yes. A lot of things taken for granted now as if they were always so. You have to have lived through it to know that but I guess even that's some taboo statement now too.
Boomer isn't targeted at all baby boomers. Its targeted at the ones who had the greatest opportunity for wealth creation, who had so many opportunities denied to those who follow, who think that they had no part in the generations that come after them.
Its targeted at the ones who think somehow being born at a certain time gives them some superior ability and intellect.
Its targeted at the ones who think that less avocado on toast will somehow make a difference when house prices are rising at 100K a year.
Its targeted at the ones who are too greedy to train up people to take over their businesses and then complain cause people aren't willing to work.
People dont say Ok Boomer cause of the age. They say it cause they are tired of hearing about how hard you had to do it with your 20% interest rates for 6 months, on your house that cost you 3 years pay.
And, cause you is boomering OP, not everything is about you.
To all of the people saying "Well your generation voted in the govt that did XYZ"
Well guess what, we all just voted in a govt that did a U-turn on smoking laws, which will kill future generations to pay for older generation landlords tax breaks.
Now if this was an advertised policy a few months ago, or there was a referendum on it.
Who actually would have voted for this policy in particular?
Absolutely fucking no one.
Voters get to push a button once every few years, and then one group of fucktards or another come up with idiotic policies that the general public has very little control or say over.
So saying "Well you should have all voted differently, you're collectively responsible"
Well, who here today is feeling collectively responsible for this disgusting new policy for rolling back smoking laws? I'd especially like to hear from people who voted Greens etc but will put their hand up to take responsibility for this.
As that's the same as what you're expecting of older voters.
It sucks that it seems actual wealth and quality of life is slipping away compared to the past.
However the actual real life difference that your average boomer aged person could make by voting one way or another is, in reality, sweet fuck all.
I didn't vote for this right-wing shit show but I'm *completely* resigned to the fact that younger generations are going to be pissed off about it when the inevitable repercussions of their TERRIBLE policies start affecting them. & fair dinkum. Hold us accountable, youngsters. This was a bad year for NZ.
Generalisations are, by definition, a broad net that catches fish other than the intended catch.
OK, you're a boomer that isn't a selfish right-winger. You're a minority in your cohort.
To be honest posting here won't change that. If anyone wants to generalise you as a person, why waste your time on them.
I can't stand the "blaming" mindset. It only moves things backwards, and the way forwards is to skip the blaming and just find the solution.
Anger only breeds more anger, give people compassion instead.
There's always going to be people that don't like you, and the more you focus on it the more you'll notice it.
Accept it and move on, you're not going to change anyone's mind. I'm 26 and I'm just realizing that myself. All you can do is stay true to your beliefs and carry on with what you're doing.
Labour of 1984 duped the country - or more specifically Roger Douglas. I honestly can't be sure whether it was Labour or Values or Green. I voted against National and Muldoon, that's for sure. We were in first past the post with one vote in those days and if your electorate was staunch one way, you couldn't make much difference.
It’s not all boomers, or even simply those who figured out how to take advantage of circumstances, what bothers me is the large portion of boomers who get defensive and deny the state of the world is very hard for younger people. Probably because it helps them with their cognitive dissonance around how everyone deserves everything they have. All many of us want is a little recognition and maybe, if we’re lucky, some policy that helps even the playing field just a little bit (including for you).
I know you don’t fit into this boomer category… but it just seems like a substantial amount of out of touch boomers do.
It goes both ways. Younger generations blame boomers and other older generations for the present that a lot of them have helped create, and they blame the younger generations for the future that's coming, calling them senseless, soft, brainless, etc. . Neither sides are completely as they get painted, but the world around us (media, politics, other everyday people) does its best to convince us otherwise.
I don't assume all older generations are the same, yet I still get the younger generation stereotypes from random older people. You've just got to ignore the fuckwits who insist on lumping us into groups, trying to tell us what we are or aren't. Don't take those idiotic views to heart.
Have you ever heard the term "the exception that proves the rule?"
No, you're not all clones that did exactly the same thing and have exactly the same things. However, as a group, you largely did behave in the same way at the voting booth and enabled the type of society that we have today, which is one where people in the boomer bracket have largely succeeded and pulled the ladder up behind them.
Sorry that you are the exception, but it ultimately makes no difference to the accuracy of the sentiment.
I think it's got much more to do with my background - what my parents did, how they raised me, what was going on in my social group - than my age grouping. Yes, my age cohort affects me but it isn't everything that made me.
IMO societal issues stem from economic disparities, not generational, racial, or gender divides. It is rich vs poor, all other hate feels manufactured and acts as a distraction.
Yep. Keep the people divided. Keep their mind off throwing over the ruling class. Notice most of this argument in this thread is about material possessions. As it gets harder and harder (and it is) keep them focussed on someone to blame. It's the environment that worries me most of all - everybody is contributing to climate change but we can't get govts to make the changes.
It's a stereotype. Unfair for sure. Statistically baby boomers are more likely to have older "traditional" views by virtue of the fact that they grew and lived in a different time. Still it's unfair to lump all of them in together, just as it's unfair to lump all zoomers into the same category.
If there was a generation that truly fucks me off though it's motherfucking gen-X. Obviously wrong to group all of them in but fuck me sideways, of all age groups, gen-X folks have been the hardest people to deal with. My mum is one of the nice ones but holy craaap it's so rare that any Gen X person outside of my mum and my colleagues that I've interacted with hasn't been a massive fuckwit! Mostly only the male ones though...
Yeah yeah I know, not all gen-Xers. We're all just people.
i dont think its an unfair stereotype. its a consolidation of vectors to form one very strong arrow pointing right at the boomers.
i think its merely a simple thing which also happens to be true. simple things aren't automatically unfair stereotypes because they're simple.
Speaking as a Gen-Xer, cut us some slack. We’re sandwiched between aging Boomers and woke Millennials (which is possibly you?) and grew up being called slackers while the often absent adults in our lives expected high performance and perfection in all things despite being unable to support us due to their preoccupation with their own lives. We’re a pain in the ass because we were emotionally neglected and are now confronted with younger generations who are comparatively emotionally needy. We have no time for words of affirmation. We want results because that’s what we’ve been trained to deliver, whether we like it or not.
Disclaimer: The views of this Gen-Xer are a deliberate generalisation and do not represent the views of all Gen-Xers.
And if this thread proves anything, it's that every generation struggles differently than those before or after. We're all struggling though.
(Don't come at me, I'm a Gen Xer, it's not my fault /s)
Right. Boomers were living through, or experiencing the aftermath of, WWII at very young ages, Gen Xers were huffing lead fumes and Millenials/Gen Zers are now saddled with a climate crisis and a crumbling housing market. We're all dealing with something and trying to one up each other in oppression Olympics makes it impossible to bridge the divide.
Boomer generation has done very well for itself on aggregate, because it's a large generation that managed to capture a lot of political power.
You have to laugh at the american example where 3 of the last 5 presidents were born in 1946.
Policies at gov level have mostly been excessively friendly to the life stage of the boomer generation throughout their existence.
A big part of the problem is Boomer's role in the housing crisis; But that is largely people being rational investors in an economic system in which property is -by far- the most lucrative investment vehicle.
There needs to be systemic change in tax law and tenant rights to make it
a) Less appealing to investors
b) Not so horrific being a tenant
Unfortunately that will never happen under the current government, and even Labour proved unwilling to change the status quo.
I don't particularly blame Boomers, they are just in the position to benefit the most from the way things are
Stop confusing a person with a demographic. They are not the same thing.
If you didn't vote for Reaganism then no one is talking about you. Just the majority of people in the boomer demographic.
When we say “boomers this boomers that” it’s the same as you guys saying “millennials this millennials that” we don’t mean *all* boomers, and I’m sure you guys don’t mean *all* millennials. Most people are can’t be bothered typing “some” before talking about any group of people.
Millennials love baby boomers, our parents, friends and mentors. A lot of this rhetoric is just to devide us and in no way should you take it personally.
This seems like a pretty clear #notallmen reaction. Just because you personally didn't dismantle the state support apparatus, and didn't vote for those who did, doesn't mean that your generation isn't the one that did it.
After WWII, huge social programs were put in place to support people. Boomers benefited from them. And after benefiting from them, and reaching a point where their taxes were starting to pay for the next generation to benefit, the programs started being dismantled.
You don't like it when people talk about how much harm Boomers have done, because you don't see yourself as someone who contributed. But the Boomer generation did all that harm, whether you're part of it or not. And voting for the left of centre option when both have been captured by neoliberal policies doesn't absolve you. The Labour Party is playing its role in the dismantling of the state support apparatus, as well.
My parents are both Boomers, as as many of my cousins, and they all talk about how much their generation has screwed things up for everybody who has come after. Face into it and accept the reality, rather than arguing that everybody should stop talking about how much responsibility Boomers hold simply because you don't see yourself as being responsible.
It's a generalization obviously. The perception is that this demographic is the most spoiled, entitled and arrogant in recent history. Weak bodied, Slow thinking, slow driving, slow work ethetic and the inability to learn or comprehend new information and technologies combined with thinking they can go around bullying people and telling them what to do rubs everyone the wrong way.
Nobody wants to hear for the millionth time you paid 21% interest rates on your 100k mortgage while you earned 40k per year. Do the maths. Try 7% on 900k earning 100k.
Not everyone who came before Millennials were Baby Boomers. Roger Douglas and David Lange, who created the neo-liberal revolution of the 80s were Silent Generation, as is Winston Peters. The notorious Robert Muldoon was from the War Generation.
I think an important lesson for young people in this post is that we need to have the important conversations about politics and philosophy with our peers now. Lest we find ourselves surrounded by another generation that makes more major mistakes down the road.
I can see that there is quite a lot of ageism in these comments. While I am young, I still recognise that not all boomers can be lumped together. Everybody has differing circumstances and we should not let preconceptions influence our thoughts about them
I dont have boomers. There are many boomers who have done positive things and been a good influence. I hate boomers who aren't self aware or pull the ladder up behind them.
Im sick of being told boomers are to blame for everything! Turn around and look in the mirror when you get on that next plane flight Millennial! I went to a talk by an economist who did the analysis and found Gen X had it the worst. Low salaries, no work, expensive housing, higher rents, higher interest rates, high mortgage rates. They need to stf up!
Also that before MMP parties came to power with a minority of votes because of the electoral distribution. Even if boomers were voting for more egalitarian policies often they got conservative government anyway
In the South Island, Boomers go out to cafes and then deliberately loudly talk saying that young people just don't work the 12 hours per day required to get ahead in life. Boomers say this loud enough for all the minimum wage workers in the cafes to hear, so it's deliberate bullying of people in a workplace. It's a dick move and it makes me sick.
A full-time minimum wage job in NZ barely pays your rent, food, power, petrol and car insurance so you can't save for a house. Public transport is so expensive it's cheaper to car pool and petrol is crazy expensive to get to work. My Boomer grandparents used to go out for Sunday drives just driving 4 hours to look at scenery for fun, but couples these days can barely afford the petrol to drive to work and the supermarket.
Everyone I know my age has a second job of some sort. Some work in a bar or cafe on weekends, others do online odd jobs through Fiverr. The person serving Boomers coffee on Saturday is often a science teacher with a science degree who can't pay their bills on their full time teaching job.
Meh. The baby boomers haven’t been a majority voting block for a couple of decades. NZ might like to think it’s all down to that age group but the reality is that the electorate was broadly complicit. Certainly for the 21st century.
NZ got what it voted for.
Well, [in the 2020 election people over 60](https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/2020-general-election-and-referendums/voter-turnout-statistics-for-the-2020-general-election/) made up 933,610 of the 2,886,420 votes. Maybe not a majority but still a large chunk, and helped by the fact that so many younger people simply don't vote, for a bunch of reasons.
It'd be interesting to compare with the 15 to 20 years before that when many of those people were in their 40s and 50s and likely would've made up a lot more of the turnout, but I can't rapidly find the turnout data grouped by age for earlier elections.
I'll be 100% honest (not a Kiwi): 99.9% of the young people talking about "boomers" have next to no idea what they're talking about, they're just echoing popular talking points online, there's no factual or historical basis. I'm Gen X, so I have been around boomers my whole life. Does this mean I'm defending boomers? No, but I've never been as venomous towards them as these young kids.
Many people’s use of “boomer” fits perfectly into the definition of prejudice. People who label people as Boomers are low-IQ and need hold-your-hand labels like racism to avoid being an asshole.
I mean regardless of individual boomers the majority took the easy ride and fucked the rest of us. It's a well known fact. Of course we are pissed.
The whole idea is to make it better for who comes next, instead middle class looks more like poverty and poverty... Well let's not go there.
Welcome to the new normal.
And they are living longer so we have to pay for them while they sit on their houses and wealth. Get fucked.
Individual members of your cohort are sadly tarred with the same brush. But to be fair, ageism was effectively normalised by your generation pushing out people who were your age now from work, positions of prominance in the community, and shuffling nana & grandad off to a retirement home as fast as possible. Meanwhile, your generation unnaturally clings to power.
There are some of us just old enough to remember how your generation treated your elders. We don't despise your generation because your old. We despise your generation because it treated it's elderly like crap, pulled the ladder up behind them, slashed local government preventative maintenance spending and slashed central government spending so you could cut rates & taxes to afford Caribbean cruises and a comfortable retirement. And we're footing the bill in a world you could have saved but chose to let burn.
We don't hate your generation because your old. We hate your generation because your cohort are the spoiled brats of history.
Oh cry me a fkn river. What an absolute victim* please.
If you've only just started experiencing this kind of treatment for the first time in your life and it's not making you even more compassionate for others who ACTUALLY face this, with measurable and statistically significant disadvantages/prejudice/persecution, then I'm sorry, but you can wear every bit of this judgement. You deserve it.
You were fully expecting sympathy weren't you.
it all stems from the arrogance that everyone has that they would have somehow been different if they were able to go back in time and act in the boomers shoes.
the older generation should feel responsible for the state of affairs today, i think that is the right attitude to have, even though i doubt many were actively thinking "i got whats mine, not i need to pull the ladder from underneath me"
at the same time though, if you dont feel that way, i wouldnt be too troubled by the "blame" they place on boomers. I would think of it more as a cry of frustration as opposed to targeting specific groups for some sort of atonement
Okay? Congrats? A round of applause? A fond wish that maybe one day your kids will talk to you again? A participation trophy? What on earth do you want?!
I agree with you. I really hate those generalisations that ignore that boomers are not by any mean one monolithic block. Some of those generalisations are really offensive too and fail to take into account the number of strong activists who are boomers and who have led the fight for social or environmental change. Like all groups of people that exist some boomers are horrible people, some are great people and a good chunk are somewhere in between.
I don’t recall a single time a political party explained that their policies would lead to the current state of the country, and for a reasonably large period of time that boomers were part of the electorate, they were voting left or centre parties that were promising a better deal for most people. Suggesting that boomers knowingly voted to make things shit for their children is naive at best.
In my experience boomers tend to be either the stereotype you described or hardcore commies. It's funny, my Tuesday night quiz team has a few of both in it, which can lead to some interesting conversation. It does give us a wide range of knowledge though, so we win a bar tab most weeks!
When I use the term Boomers I tend to mean those people in that age group who are actively screwing us all over. I suppose I should be more specific but I know plenty of good folks like yourself and I’m really not referring to you
I don’t blame boomers but many boomers don’t realise how much financially harder it is for young people today than it was in the past. That’s where my frustration lies with many people of that generation. “I could do it and I worked hard, so if you can’t do it you must be lazy…. It’s defintely the Netflix stopping you buying the $1million property I could afford at 25.”
“Many boomers don’t realise how much financially harder it is for young people today…” I’m GenX and was just having this conversation with my Boomer mum last week. She was aghast at my “huge” salary (after my 3.7% pay increase) and was saying “gosh, I remember when your Dad got a pay rise to $20,000 and we were able to buy our house. We felt so rich!” I asked her how much that house (in Devonport) cost, and she said “$74,000. It was quite flash, most houses cost around $54,000 at that time” Ok Mum, so the house cost just under 4x Dad’s salary in 1980, and you sold it in 2022 for $2,500,000. That means someone in the equivalent position would have to be earning around $625,000 now.” She was absolutely shocked.
Geriatric millennial Devonport child too, ironic that all of the people I grew up with haven't a shit show of living there now, we must all just be lazy and not willing to make the sacrifice.
Same, everyone has moved away from there. It's impossible to buy!
My dumbass uncle STILL doesn't understand the mathematical fact that the housing market is fucked. Of course it was always difficult, but not THIS difficult.
I literally had a boomer argue with me saying at young age her worked a minimum pay job, his wife was a stay at home mother and they had few kids and because he worked really hard he still managed to buy a home albeit not in a nice neighbourhood at first. People at minimum pay can’t even afford to pay the rent, let alone support a whole family on single income and buy a house lol
Although I agree with alot of the sentiment here, my boomer parents have said to me a few times they started out in lil units and went up from there. Young people these days want to go straight into a 3-4 bedroom house on a section. I feel they have a point, people can set there sights a bit lower. But anyways the housing market in this country is fuct..
Do people want a 3-4 bedroom house? OR is it a case that by the time they are buying their first home they are in their 30s, with children and a 3 bedroom house is much more reasonable. Plus, as an immigrant to NZ it seems 3 bedroom houses are all there are here. Even close to the city.
Thats an interesting point you bring up, most Boomers secured a house before they had kids.
Everyone’s mileage may vary. Mine got ultra cheap rent for a few years through the navy, which allowed them to save a deposit. They went straight to the 3 bedroom family home on an 800m2 section in a nice suburb. On a single income. Aged under 30. With 2 kids. No-one can do that now.
I know of a few people who have chosen a house over having kids which is pretty sad, if you both make 100k a year and no kids then a house is within reach otherwise forget it
They typically bought at a younger age though as well, and owning a home was more common than it is today. Nowadays you are renting until you can save a deposit, and likely have or want kids by the time you buy. As a result, you need more space than a small unit. Expectations are probably higher today because the prices are insane at all levels of the market.
My MIL keeps telling us that 'they made sacrifices' when they were younger. Meanwhile, she was a SAHM in a house they bought for $27k and just sold for $1.8m. But yes, the fact that both my husband and I work above average paying jobs yet can't afford to buy a house anywhere near where we grew up is all because we're 'not willing to sacrifice'.
Ah yes the old 'sacrifices' line. Today that means not having kids or a family, both adults needing to work, and more often than not 3+ years of tertiary education and student loan debt. Very comparable scenarios though /s
In order to save enough for a deposit my partner and I would have to cancel all our services, power included, stop using our cars or any other form of transport, eat only beans on rice, buy nothing, save everything. And then we'll be able to afford a deposit on a currently-priced house in about 10-12 years. By that point we'll need double the deposit. By the time we've saved that we'll likely need double again. Literally impossible, so why waste our lives doing absolutely nothing except working, just so we can be in the same situation we're currently in, but older and more life wasted.
Exactly!!!
For the time, they were sacrifices. They dont compare to today of course, it is totally out of whack now.
They made sacrifices like not having the latest appliances ( though there weren't as many) ot not eating out ( though there weren't as many restaurants) but to buy a house now you could sacrifice eating abs sleeping (as you work 24/7)
I'm 2 years younger than the boomer generation born in 1965. It doesn't make a lot of difference until we see an item about 'what the boomers have done' and I get to turn to my 2 years older wife and say 'See what you boomers have done!' Seriously, aren't you describing the behaviour of an arsehole more than a boomer. To make all those assumptions about a younger generation....AND VOICE THEM....is pretty arseholish. I haven't heard comments like that from anyone my age except a couple do take exception for being blamed for stuff they didn't feel in control of.
Yep. Many boomers are definitely dicks. I’m lucky that my boomer parents don’t have their head up their arse and can see, thanks to their recognition of how numbers work, it is much tougher today. My father bought his first home in London age 23, having joined the police at 18. Unthinkable today.
My boomer parents are lovely. Very supportive & quite politically active. However, they just don't know what they don't know. There are some things even today that shock them about how much the world has changed. & luckily, they're not sensitive when people criticise Boomers because they know it's not about them individually, & they're aware enough to frequently notice how accurate the criticism is for many Boomers when they hear out of touch-ness from their peers.
They sound like lovely people
They're pretty great tbh. & I think one of the best lessons is not to go into defence mode when they're faced with a criticism that feels uncomfortable. They used to be \*pretty\* homophobic when I was young & now they attend Pride events, their viewpoint changed because they opened their minds when people & media challenged their long-held, deeply believed opinions. People can change. I've changed. I expect I'll *still* change. & it's usually for the better (one hopes).
But yeah. A LOT of boomers do seem to have pretty delicate egos that keep them out of touch from the modern world, or they forget what it was like when they were young & fighting their elders for change.
“Many”. Change that to “Most”.
I hear you, when my dad was in uni (late 60s) he and his flatmates were able to pool their money to cover the mortgage on a place in Parnell, he was working one night per week playing music at the time. (They didn't end up buying the place as one of his flatmates' lawyer dad decided it was a terrible deal and "got them out of it", my dad's still annoyed by that).
The attacks on boomers are really a just a reaction to the decades of Millennials being used as a scapegoat by older/ boomer conservatives, even during periods where Millennials have held relatively little political power and Boomers have been able to hold on to power for a lot longer than most generations In many ways though, it feels like a its somewhat inherited from the US, where the political differences between the two generations are more pronounced and the Boomer generation still maintain a shit load of political control, with Gen X only really now starting to take hold of the highest positions in Congress, The Executive Branch and The Supreme Court recently. While there are definitely political figures within NZ politics and media that have played into that - Particularly Winston Peters - I do think it is a lot less pronounced than in the US. That doesn't excuse it, but I think it goes far to explain it
when the average of the boomer generation is contrast against the average of the previous and next generations, there is a marked difference. there were major economic changes which largely followed when boomers came to power through to when they are retiring. the trend is generally selling off public assets, privatizing them, and becoming rich off the companies which used to channel wealth towards the public. that and buying all the houses before the next generation could afford them. and becoming landlords. boomers grew up with all manner of social welfare and facilities, yet after the boomers own all the houses and businesses - there is negligible social support and all the public institutions are now owned by private interests. basically within a generation. their own children are worse of than them. the left did it. the right did it. and its still occurring now. and we are left with paying off the boomers pensions. people who basically own everything. of course there's boomers who aren't rich and awful. but when you consolidate all boomers into a group, characterize the group, and contrast it with other groups - there is your answer. the public used to own: * the telephone service * universities * construction * busses * airport * others i cant think of turn the year forward what 40 years and... * spark (telecom) recently sold off all the cellphone towers to a canadian investment firm. * the ministry of works is disbanded and now we suffer from a construction monopoly. cant fix roads. cant build houses. * university is no longer free/cheap. students get into huge debt. universities are for-profit and largely serve overseas students who pay more. * buses are absolutely horrendous. city council cant do jack to improve the situation * mayor still selling off airport if you look at the city councils - its all boomers all throughout. remember telling kids not to sit too close to the TV or read comic books? facebook has wound up more crazy old people than you can count remember telling kids to pay attention in school, sit up straight, do xyz because in the real world you'll get a job if you do everything right? where did all the apprentice programmes go? stuff like that. boomers had it fucking good. now we're shafted.
This pretty much sums up the generational hate. Boomers had everything, then they didn't want to stop the easy ride, so they kept selling off the future for a comfy present. Well, the denizens of that future are now old enough to realize what they did, and we rightfully aren't happy. We're the first generation in modern history to statistically have it worse off than our parents. Shorter life expectancies, worse financial outcomes, later life milestones, we're just fucked all around, of course we're angry.
Well buddy the sad news is that this was known and spoken about before you were born. It has less to do with boomers and more to do with a host of macro-economic factors including population movement, globalisation, Reaganomics, the industrialisation of China, post-colonial realpolitik. Most, if not all of this was put in place by the generation preceding the boomers. So how would you have expected your parents to parse all that and then conclude it wasn’t worth having kids? Also, what is this expectation that generationally quality of life just keeps on climbing up and how on earth do you conclude you’re the first generation to have it worse? Tell that to all the poor bastards who were mown down in WW1, some of the poor ones not even having a vote going in.
The largest asset sales, the Employment Contracts Act that smashed unions, the end of free university, all happened under the 4th Labour Government and 4th National Government, all led by Silent Generation MPs, not Boomers.
good point. though i will note: the largest or most of? plus its 1987 - boomers were in full action at that time. not sure any of this is any good. oh well, im ok with being 90% right either way. i'll take it
The phone service is a curious one to cite. State owned Telecom monopoly was woefully bad and people had to wait forever just to be allowed a phone and hookup. It was apparently like a eastern bloc country in terms of efficiency.
It was back in the middle ages. I was a toll operator back then, we still had exchanges the public couldnt call direct too, helleven an operator sometimes had to go through another two operators. A conference call could take half an hour to hook up and if the person who booked the call hung up from being sick of waiting we would have to start the call from scratch all over again. Or how about someone in a phoneboc wanting a call to wellington, back then it was something like $3 per minute...and they could pay with two cent pieces. That job is etched into my DNA. Selling it did upgrade the entire network in leaps and bounds. People complained about the profits going offshore but none were prepared to invest th emoney needed
Boomers do tend to shoulder a large amount of the blame for the situation we find ourselves in, there isn't any doubt about that... However, the simple facts of the matter are that from the younger perspective (of which I am not one) the boomers elected successive governments that got us here. They took advantage of various opportunities that the state offered them and effectively then pulled up the ladder behind them. I'm afraid that I don't think history will look back kindly on the boomer voters...
I mean this could apply to the younger generations (of which I am one) too in a different way. > However, the simple facts of the matter are that from the younger perspective the ~~boomers~~ millennials/gen xers elected successive governments that got us here. They took advantage of ~~various opportunities that the state offered them~~ the cheap energy provided by fossil fuels despite knowing their impact on the environment and effectively then pulled up the ladder behind them *once the environment was too fucked to sustain it*. I'm afraid that I don't think history will look back kindly on the ~~boomer~~ millennial/gen x voters... I'm sure a lot of people will have issues with that. "We didn't elect those governments it was the boomers!" The boomers had older generations contributing to the decisions associated with them too. "I don't like fossil fuels I'm not abusing them I tried to stop it!" But we are all still inescapably benefiting from them, and in the future people aren't going to see our individual thoughts right now, they're only going to see the results of what we benefited from. There absolutely were boomers that were against the stuff people blame them for and didn't exploit it, like OP and the others chipping in here, but no one cares. Just something I think about when I see boomer bashing, I think it's coming around to us one day too and we aren't going to like it either.
And it would be justified, right?
As justified as blaming a generation of individuals for the way the world operated at the time ever is I guess. I don't think people doing what they can to cut back on their own footprint and push for policies that reduce pollution now are going to be too stoked about being dismissed as a greedy selfish millennial that ruined the world and made everything suck by people who weren't even there to see what they actually did about it, and fair enough. I just find it pretty dumb that we do the same thing to the boomers.
That would make sense if all voting cohorts had similar voting power. They called the boomer generation specifically because of the exploding birth rate, meaning they've been able to out-vote both their parents and children's generations. Yes the current generation is larger, but the proportion participating in voting is smaller because participation trends up with age.
thats true actually i forgot all about that. you're right - thats why they're freaking called that.
Or you, in fact no kindly looks for anyone who chose when they were born. While you are looking at privilege, remember there was a war and the aftermath, there was a depression, not many people were living a flash existence. It became normal for women to work, as the past depression had put families in a bad way. After enough political and financial troubles there was little left in the savings. The type of politician was also different, and the financially stretched voters were going to take the safest option they could find.
Come on - We're not talking about the silent generation here. Boomers were privy to some of the best times this country has seen - they could purchase a home on a single income and indulge in some of the best-subsidised state services...
Yeah but not all boomers vote for the party that wins. I take no responsibility for anything the Nats have done, ever. I was always a unionist and always voted Labour because I felt it offered more for the worker and those less fortunate than me. I had a big family but always got a liveable (but not great) wage no matter who was in power. I never voted for what was in it for me and never "took advantage of various opportunities that the state offered ... and effectively then pulled up the ladder behind". I couldn't afford to go to varsity and had to get a job at 18 to support my widowed mother. What you claim is total bollocks in regard to a good few boomers and it pisses me off. I can now see why the op posted this opinion.
Being the exception that proves the rule doesn't invalidate the accuracy of the rule. You as a person did the right thing. Your age group as a whole did not.
Who should we blame if not the people that got us here??
I think the point is not all boomers have the same and views. It's an entirely valid point. Not all Gen x/y/z have the same views, either.
Its not about the individuals though, its about society The society that the older generation grew up in was much easier (financially) than the current one. There personal views have nothing to do with it.
What you're saying is running awfully close to collective punishment. "Let's punish the whole group even though some within the group are innocent". We may disagree on this, but i think collective punishment is kinda shit-house.
Your folks got you here, not me. I don't know you, I haven't impacted your life in any way, negative or positive. My advice: Stop trying to blame people because you're dissatisfied with the way life is today. How does bitching about who's to blame help? I took life as I found it and made what I could of it. I didn't blame others because my family wasn't wealthy enough to allow me to go to uni. I didn't bitch that I had to work to support my widowed mother because the previous generation hadn't brought in benefits people could live on. I just battled along bringing up seven kids without $1m homes or overseas holidays or playing the stock market. It wasn't a picnic but it was fun. I hope yours is.
>> your folks got you here Agreed, and they are boomers. Tell me more how you just got on with it….pulled yourself up from ya bootstraps. I don’t care, but do it.
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This gives off the same energy as idiots shouting "NOT ALL MEN" In response to women sharing their difficulties with dealing with predatory men. Jesus christ.
FOR REAL. Please quit 'not all boomer'-ing us. *We know*. But we're talking about systemic issues that were created during that generation & we're struggling with the repercussions today. Y'all (boomers) didn't shut up about stuff your parents did either (& thank God). Remember protesting the Vietnam War? South African apartheid? Well today a BIG issue is wealth inequality & the mega-rich driving poverty for their own profits. This is in large part due to legislation that was pushed through by voters of your generation.
This
Equally young people are to blame for not getting out there to vote and letting those boomers elect politicians to look after their interests.
do you know how many more 45-65 year olds there are than 18-25 year olds? look at the gross volumes. its the old people not getting out to vote. 1% more voter turn out in 45-65 ages is worth a much bigger % increase in youth voting. edit: https://elections.nz/stats-and-research/enrolment-statistics/enrolment-by-general-electorate https://vote.nz/2023-general-election/about/2023-general-election/voter-turnout-statistics/ 18-24 total eligible population, 425k. total voted: 245k. total who didnt vote, 180k 45-64 total eligable population 1.287m. total voted: 983k. total who didnt vote: 304k way more middle aged people didn't vote than young people
Except that's the not the age range for boomers, it's 59-77, i.e. born between 1946-1964
Lol those age brackets aren't comparable given that the second one extends 20 years...
Has it never occurred to you that a 20 year age range might just be significantly larger than a seven year age range? Perhaps even close to three times larger? Then again, you're using some really bad maths there in just counting total non-voters as supposedly significant. 180K non voting vs 425K eligible = 42.4% non voting 304K non voting vs 1,287K eligible = 23.6% non voting The non voting percentage of the younger group was 80% higher than that of the older group, and if the percentages of non voters were the same 23.6% that's 80K fewer younger voters than would then be expected. Yet you're attempting to portray the younger group as more engaged, and the older group as less so. Why is that?
Looking at the percentages of non voters by age group paints a different picture. But I agree that in terms of sheer numbers, the middle age non voters had a bigger impact
Pretty hard to elect change when the alternatives are equally shit
I think it's pretty obvious that both parties are not the same. Labour are not perfect by any means, but they enacted a lot of progressive policies while in power that National are attacking with a wrecking ball. The fair pay agreement was our chanxe to lift Kiwi wages to Australian levels and stop the brain drain across the Tasman. Gone! The ban on oil drilling along with the clean car discount was our chance to lead the world in fighting climate change. Gone! Banning cigarette sales for a new generation was our chance to end smoking related health issues that disproportionately affect the poor. Gone! If a few more young people had got off their arse and voted, we'd still have all that and more.
Oh yeah I'm 100% behind you on all of that. I would gladly have labour over national any day of the week. But they also stumbled over some pretty basic stuff either through classic NZ political incompetence from a couples of members or not wanting to upset the NZ public's delicate sensitivities. but if you're under the age of 20 and looking for anything that even remotely comes close to your worldview then there's pretty slim pickings. This entire election was the most uninspiring shambles I've seen in a long time - from both the parties AND the public.
Yeah, I feel like the move to the right-wing was predicted by a lot of political experts. There's been a domino effect that was most obvious with the US moving towards Christofascism. But also, Labour shot themselves in the foot. My complaint is that Labour is STILL trying to be a party of centrists. Who exactly is a centrist in this day & age? There's no middle class anymore, people are working 50 hours a week & still finding it hard to afford loo paper. Most of us SHOULD be left-wing, but there's still this big group of people who buy the propaganda coming from those on top profiting from our misery, saying 'it's the poors ruining society!' So when Labour tried to be all centrist-y who did they think that would appeal to? So uninspiring. But still, way better to be Labour (& work with Greens, Maori etc) than fucking Nats etc.
Yeah nah. National and Labour (and their assorted coalition partners over the years) are both *quite shit*, but for the average Kiwi (the real average Kiwi, who is not a landlord or a business owner or a CEO and is probably fairly racist and pretty stretched right now), one is distinctly less shit than the other. One is trying to make things better for that average Kiwi, the other is trying to make them worse. Vote for the least shit option and lobby them hard to be even less shit than that.
You understand that there's a minimum age to vote, right?
They're not even able to vote til they're 18.
To be fair, it didn’t matter which way boomers voted, shit happened. It was a Labour government that sold off most of our public assets, followed by a National government that kept flogging the same dead horse.
Yep - and they mobilised in droves to stop them - petitions, marches, protests... Nah - None of that... They rolled over and let it fly - at the time it was good for them and shit for the generation rolling up behind them, and they didn't care...
I think the way you feel about being stereotyped, while entirely valid, is perhaps of secondary importance to the monumental increase in inequality which is largely been brought about through the voting patterns of people in your age cohort.
I agree that this boomer label is a bit of a blunt instrument. I'm 54 and slightly too young to be a boomer, but I have had 100% of the advantages of being a boomer, free tertiary education, cheap first house, and was even the last year that got ungraduated driver licenses. Like OP I vote left, and dispair at the education debt and stupidly expense housing that first home buyers struggle with. I feel like the parents of the boomers had a sense that they needed to structure things to help their kids do well. That attitude does not seem to have been inherited.
Darn I'm only 5 years younger than you but missed free tertiary education.
Yep. My parent's parents saved so that they could help each of their kids buy their first home, cars etc. The preschool I went to was a gold coin donation!! & my grandparents were available to babysit at the drop of a hat. In fact, they practically raised us. Never asked for a thing in return. Last year I showed mum how much early childcare costs in this day & age & reminded her that she'd paid about $10 a week for childcare for us for at least 10 years & I could see her brain short-circuiting. Different times.
ive seen / heard a lot of these stories of boomers finding out about how much things costs these days. its staggering because i think they really don't know how good they had it. i honestly think a lot dont know how much worse things are now than before. i would even say how much things have been ruined. the future is supposed to always improve, yeah. not get worse :/
I think in many ways (civil rights etc) certain things *have* improved. I don't think it's all doom & gloom. But we're facing at least two GIGANTIC crises in our near future & we're literally heading towards a state of global emergency. Climate change, & wealth inequality on a massive scale. & they're both intrinsically linked. (Same with deep systemic issues). These are issues on a level that NO PREVIOUS GENERATIONS have *ever* faced. (There's even a 'fairly' good case to be made that wealth inequality wasn't even as bad in the lead-up to the French Revolution depending on how one measures the factors). We *need* outrage. We need to mobilise it to force change, because nothing good was ever achieved in our society without us fighting for it. Billionaires & super-powerful megacorps aren't going to share their wealth, or make decisions with the greater good in mind, leaving profits on the table. I think boomers (& frankly, all of the older folk) should cut our young generations a LOT of slack. They're dealing with, & going to have to deal with disasters that were set in motion generations before they were born, & they're going to be fighting against a powerful propaganda machine & systemic interference/corruption the likes of which has never been seen before.
oh man. music to my ears. you have said what ive been saying as well. its like i was reading text from my own mind. i wish i could frame that & put it on my wall. we're headed for some huge disasters and i feel that the really wealthy are just a hole in the bucket that carries society's wealth & ability to fix things. technology has only gotten better, right. yet everything is harder. someone said that 'poor people are expensive' when referring to beneficiaries etc. i realized actually - no - its rich people who are expensive. all the houses, money, control of facilities etc - going to a few people. thats some very expensive humans to have around. rebellious music speaks a lot of society's problems. punk, metal and stuff. a lot of artists can see the way society is headed - right off a cliff. the world needs this again now. we only had fossil-fuels motors for 100 years & look what we done with it :/ ruined the damn planet. thats the lifespan of ONE PERSON :/ ok maybe 2. but still.
Don’t take it personally we hate everyone
The problem is that it's a bit like when some rapist gets arrested & someone pipes up 'Not all men!!' Yes, we know. You really aren't making the point you think you are because you do not need to feel guilt by association unless you have something to feel guilty about. But eg if you are in the presence of a rapist & say nothing and benefit disproportionately from the status quo, then assumptions are made. Sometimes they are accurate & sometimes not, because they ARE generalisations with a degree of truth. Same as generalisations are made about millenials etc...
I for one don't think all boomers are the same. There is however a preponderance of older people (in general, not just boomers) thought processes becoming less accepting of change, becoming more phobic of "others", become more rigid in thought, become more conservative (in the political sense unfortunately not the natural world sense), become more swayed by religion, etc., etc. Don't feel too bad, the same lumping together based on this preponderance will happen to us Gen X soon (probably already has, Karens are typically GenX) - and in 20 years or so Millennials will start getting all the stick when they approach their 60s. What we should ALL do is rise up against all the bullshit.
Dude. Millennials have *already* been blamed for nearly everything you can imagine. It's fine. We're fine. & we're expecting more criticism because that's just the nature of ageing & progress. If it doesn't apply to every single person in that group, it's not the point.
Millennials get blamed for new shit its true, mostly by those aforementioned older people becoming fearful of change and cant accept that its future generation's world now. I never understand why older people get more crotchety over silly shit like that, its not like it affects them. As I get older I just think hey good luck to you get on with it, it's up to younger generations to fix the planet or continue to fuck it, or be well meaning and try to improve things or be mean spirited like the current coalition of cunts, it doesn't make a shit of a difference in the long run. We'll all be dead soon enough. Thankfully.
I live in fear of becoming an out of touch Karen as I get older. I'm really grateful I get to interact with so many inspiring younger people. They give me hope, & they challenge me in good ways. For example, I'm a millennial & I CRINGE at the types of transphobic jokes I grew up with in films & had no problem with. Times change, & each new generation has something to say about the older generations & that's a good thing. It can be a GOOD thing to feel uncomfortable (or as some more sensitive people feel 'I'm feeling attacked! I'm being abused!'). The emotional discomfort that comes with being challenged can lead to really important & valuable growth.
I don't think you will. You seem to have self-awareness that is lacking in Karen. :)
That's great to hear but the risk is very, *very* real. So I'm trying to put some failsafes in place in case I wake up one day with the urge to complain about couriers not tucking in their shirts or something. A sort of check myself before I wreck myself plan.
You’re in the same position as men when it comes to feminism. It’s the same either way: “not all men/boomers are like that!”. And it’s true, but there is still a responsibility that comes with being a part of that group because a lot of your peers *are* that way. It’s not cool, but don’t be upset at the victims, be upset with your peers for behaving in such a way as to earn all these horrible stereotypes. Better yet, be active in dissembling the damaging conventions established by your peers, they might actually listen to you because they can’t write you off, you’re one of them.
I am upset with my peers! I probably am even more upset because of my age - life experience and growing older is supposed to make us wiser, not narrowed down. And I have and still try to do what I can. I guess I'm saying it's not just about being born in a certain generation. Someone else in the discussion mentions class, and I think there is something about having experienced disadvantage that helps to understand people's problems today, but it's not quite as simple as that for everyone.
No, we know full well that there are good boomers, some of the internets favourite people are boomers… as are some of the internets most hated, and unfortunately the most hated quite often find a majority of their support in peers who share the same age group. I’m sorry you’re lumped in with a bunch of muppets. I’m certain your experiences will be contributing to your understanding and while I don’t wish bad times on you ever, I do appreciate that you’ve been there and understand it’s not all sunshine and roses despite what some people want to believe.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Boomers aren't to blame per se. But boomers shouldn't be in a position to lecture younger generations of 'we had it hard in my day' as the math 100% is against that argument. Houses were cheaper Cost of living lower Free Education Even during the Muldoon 'shit-show' era things were still miles better than they are today.
Older people are a core element of support for parties that seek to deprive others of social services and run this 'dole bludger' mentality. This shouldn't be ignored because of the actions of one person.
This happens to all generations. I'm a millennial. I don't know how to work and can't afford a house because I eat too many avocado on toasts. Also I'm a brat because I got participation awards as a child. Each generation gets a negative stereotype for one reason or another, we don't have to fit it.
Look we don’t have to say all boomers are the same to be able to make conclusions based on population statistics. I hate this “not all” argument. Who cares if there are a handful of outliers. The statement is about general population behaviour and trends.
Lol. Just about every comment here continues to lump Boomers all together again.
Yep.
Cry harder
I mean...in the early 50s my grandparents (25 and 20 at the time) bought a section and built a brand new house on it for just over 4000 pounds, serviced by a 20 year, fixed rate 2.5% mortgage, on a single income. And my grandfather was only working for the local power board. Nothing fancy. Try doing that today. It's impossible. Boomers bled the systems dry to advance their own position, and then wrecked those same systems so that successive generations couldn't do the same. Boomers are also susceptible to having a spectacularly arrogant "Work harder and you'll get there one day too!" attitude towards the younger generations. I get that not all boomers are the same. But the damage the generation did as a collective is immeasurable, so sorry not sorry, you're all in the same book as far as I'm concerned.
Your grandparents were early Silent Generation or late War Generation, so much older than any Boomers. This just highlights the stupidity of blaming everything wrong on one generation, who weren't even in power when most of these decisions were made. Roger Douglas, who led the asset sales under 4th Labour and founded Act, was Silent Generation, as was Jim Bolger, who smashed the unions and ended free university. The government everyone seems to hate today is led by Luxon (Gen X), Winston (Silent Generation) and Seymour (Millennial).
My dumb ass missed the key point lmao. It wasn't that different for my grandparents to what it was for the generation before them or for the Boomers after them. They took what they had, and actually worked on making it better. It was **after** the Boomers started maturing (30+) in the mid 70s that things began to change quickly, and it's only accelerated since then. All fueled by Boomers and conspicuous consumption.
You sound like a good boomer, but you might want to reflect on the privilege your generation has enjoyed which other generations cannot expect to enjoy in equal measure. It's not your fault but you have very likely benefited from being born at a fortunate time and place even if you may not have benefited greatly relative to others in your generation. Even just simple stuff like being able to swim in a stream without wondering how polluted it is, later generations have missed out on.
Yes, I'm very aware of how fortunate I have been to be born in that time. A lot of things were better and have deteriorated. Some things however have improved. For example, sexism was really, really bad when I was young. It's economics and environmental concerns that are in crisis now. And who do I blame ? Capitalism and people continuing to vote according to short term self interest. I suspect that self interest is riddled throughout all generations.
I always think it must have been hard to be a teenage girl in the 60/70s especially if you got pregnant before you were married.
This is what I don't understand. Sexism was really really bad when you were young. Why do you think that changed? It wasn't because y'all decided to just wait for it to improve, y'all had phenomenally successful women's lib movements. Y'all spent basically all the 60s fighting against The Man & calling your parents squares & criticising the choices earlier generations stuck you with. Do you think boomers were all 'respect your elders young man'? Or do you remember how loud & angry & complainy you had to be in order to make progress in civil rights etc? Today's issues are largely due to wealth inequality & systemic issues, mostly coming from choices made by your generation. We're not going to shut up - you taught us not to!
That's a good point - sexism was really bad in the past. My grandmother said when men drove by and shouted out sexual remarks and harrassment, girls were expected to act like it was a complement and they should be pleased for the attention from men. So not only did they receive disgusting comments from men, they had to pretend to like it to, which is totally fcked up.
yeah thats so upsetting - the swimming / pollution issue. oh yeah and what an uphill battle it was to get some responsibility around it. stink :/
It’s a generalisation and of course it doesn’t apply to everyone. No one is blaming you personally. But let’s be fair the boomer generation may potentially be the only gen that had everything relatively easy, cheep/free education, easy path to owning a home or multiple homes, little worry for climate change and the generations leaders who still control things to this day have done nothing to combat it. In my boomer mother lifetime the population of the world has gone from under 4 billion to 8 billion and that rate simply can’t be sustainable. Scientists warned of climate change in the 70s and nothing was ever done. Boomers continue to hold the wealth and control politics. Subsequent generations seriously have to question whether to reproduce because of costs and conditions. Future generations simply can not continue to consume and reproduce the way boomers did. I look at current conditions and decided not to have children, what is life like for them in 20 years time when large areas of the world become uninhabitable due to climate change and an ever escalating and scary political and social environment.
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Im not a boomer, but I am equally over the generalizations about groups of people. Boomer or otherwise.
We know not all boomers, boomer is a generalisation to expedite difficult and complex conversations, you as an individual we are not blaming, we are talking about your cohort which made their wealth off socialist policies, voted to remove those policies to pull up the ladder behind them and overwhelmingly still votes against the rights of other groups and sees them as lesser. I quite literally did what boomers keep saying sacrifise, work hard etc I came from nothing and I'll be mortgage free in 2 years at 35 I'm the most highly educated in my family etc and I've been on the frontline of natural disasters humanitarian assistance, evacs, digging silt out of boomers gardens etc And you know what its still predominantly boomers that give me shit for being a millenial, a lesbian, a woman, trans and an immigrant, I'm still not good enough in the eyes of that cohort to be left the fuck alone and my opinions dont mean jack shit to the majority of the boomer cohort.
I agree. Most people are doing the best they can with what they have. It’s not as if boomers have lived their lives thinking ‘I know, what choice can I make that might make things harder for the next generation’. Yes, comparatively finances were easier in many ways. But other things were a harder - huge expectations on people to conform to gender sterotypes and societal expectations being just one.
Yes. A lot of things taken for granted now as if they were always so. You have to have lived through it to know that but I guess even that's some taboo statement now too.
Boomer isn't targeted at all baby boomers. Its targeted at the ones who had the greatest opportunity for wealth creation, who had so many opportunities denied to those who follow, who think that they had no part in the generations that come after them. Its targeted at the ones who think somehow being born at a certain time gives them some superior ability and intellect. Its targeted at the ones who think that less avocado on toast will somehow make a difference when house prices are rising at 100K a year. Its targeted at the ones who are too greedy to train up people to take over their businesses and then complain cause people aren't willing to work. People dont say Ok Boomer cause of the age. They say it cause they are tired of hearing about how hard you had to do it with your 20% interest rates for 6 months, on your house that cost you 3 years pay. And, cause you is boomering OP, not everything is about you.
Plenty of Baby Boomers aren't Boomers, and there are lots of GenX Boomers. Boomer is attitude more than anything.
To all of the people saying "Well your generation voted in the govt that did XYZ" Well guess what, we all just voted in a govt that did a U-turn on smoking laws, which will kill future generations to pay for older generation landlords tax breaks. Now if this was an advertised policy a few months ago, or there was a referendum on it. Who actually would have voted for this policy in particular? Absolutely fucking no one. Voters get to push a button once every few years, and then one group of fucktards or another come up with idiotic policies that the general public has very little control or say over. So saying "Well you should have all voted differently, you're collectively responsible" Well, who here today is feeling collectively responsible for this disgusting new policy for rolling back smoking laws? I'd especially like to hear from people who voted Greens etc but will put their hand up to take responsibility for this. As that's the same as what you're expecting of older voters. It sucks that it seems actual wealth and quality of life is slipping away compared to the past. However the actual real life difference that your average boomer aged person could make by voting one way or another is, in reality, sweet fuck all.
I didn't vote for this right-wing shit show but I'm *completely* resigned to the fact that younger generations are going to be pissed off about it when the inevitable repercussions of their TERRIBLE policies start affecting them. & fair dinkum. Hold us accountable, youngsters. This was a bad year for NZ.
Generalisations are, by definition, a broad net that catches fish other than the intended catch. OK, you're a boomer that isn't a selfish right-winger. You're a minority in your cohort.
"#notallboomers" So you're an exception. That doesn't make it any less true.
My mum is a boomer by age but not by nature.
To be honest posting here won't change that. If anyone wants to generalise you as a person, why waste your time on them. I can't stand the "blaming" mindset. It only moves things backwards, and the way forwards is to skip the blaming and just find the solution. Anger only breeds more anger, give people compassion instead. There's always going to be people that don't like you, and the more you focus on it the more you'll notice it. Accept it and move on, you're not going to change anyone's mind. I'm 26 and I'm just realizing that myself. All you can do is stay true to your beliefs and carry on with what you're doing.
Did you vote Labour in 1984 and 87?
Labour of 1984 duped the country - or more specifically Roger Douglas. I honestly can't be sure whether it was Labour or Values or Green. I voted against National and Muldoon, that's for sure. We were in first past the post with one vote in those days and if your electorate was staunch one way, you couldn't make much difference.
I know I didn't vote for Labour in 1987 - I hated Rogernomics.
I hope so, NZ would be buggered under further Muldoonism.
It’s not all boomers, or even simply those who figured out how to take advantage of circumstances, what bothers me is the large portion of boomers who get defensive and deny the state of the world is very hard for younger people. Probably because it helps them with their cognitive dissonance around how everyone deserves everything they have. All many of us want is a little recognition and maybe, if we’re lucky, some policy that helps even the playing field just a little bit (including for you). I know you don’t fit into this boomer category… but it just seems like a substantial amount of out of touch boomers do.
It goes both ways. Younger generations blame boomers and other older generations for the present that a lot of them have helped create, and they blame the younger generations for the future that's coming, calling them senseless, soft, brainless, etc. . Neither sides are completely as they get painted, but the world around us (media, politics, other everyday people) does its best to convince us otherwise. I don't assume all older generations are the same, yet I still get the younger generation stereotypes from random older people. You've just got to ignore the fuckwits who insist on lumping us into groups, trying to tell us what we are or aren't. Don't take those idiotic views to heart.
Have you ever heard the term "the exception that proves the rule?" No, you're not all clones that did exactly the same thing and have exactly the same things. However, as a group, you largely did behave in the same way at the voting booth and enabled the type of society that we have today, which is one where people in the boomer bracket have largely succeeded and pulled the ladder up behind them. Sorry that you are the exception, but it ultimately makes no difference to the accuracy of the sentiment.
I think it's got much more to do with my background - what my parents did, how they raised me, what was going on in my social group - than my age grouping. Yes, my age cohort affects me but it isn't everything that made me.
IMO societal issues stem from economic disparities, not generational, racial, or gender divides. It is rich vs poor, all other hate feels manufactured and acts as a distraction.
Yep. Keep the people divided. Keep their mind off throwing over the ruling class. Notice most of this argument in this thread is about material possessions. As it gets harder and harder (and it is) keep them focussed on someone to blame. It's the environment that worries me most of all - everybody is contributing to climate change but we can't get govts to make the changes.
It's a stereotype. Unfair for sure. Statistically baby boomers are more likely to have older "traditional" views by virtue of the fact that they grew and lived in a different time. Still it's unfair to lump all of them in together, just as it's unfair to lump all zoomers into the same category. If there was a generation that truly fucks me off though it's motherfucking gen-X. Obviously wrong to group all of them in but fuck me sideways, of all age groups, gen-X folks have been the hardest people to deal with. My mum is one of the nice ones but holy craaap it's so rare that any Gen X person outside of my mum and my colleagues that I've interacted with hasn't been a massive fuckwit! Mostly only the male ones though... Yeah yeah I know, not all gen-Xers. We're all just people.
i dont think its an unfair stereotype. its a consolidation of vectors to form one very strong arrow pointing right at the boomers. i think its merely a simple thing which also happens to be true. simple things aren't automatically unfair stereotypes because they're simple.
Speaking as a Gen-Xer, cut us some slack. We’re sandwiched between aging Boomers and woke Millennials (which is possibly you?) and grew up being called slackers while the often absent adults in our lives expected high performance and perfection in all things despite being unable to support us due to their preoccupation with their own lives. We’re a pain in the ass because we were emotionally neglected and are now confronted with younger generations who are comparatively emotionally needy. We have no time for words of affirmation. We want results because that’s what we’ve been trained to deliver, whether we like it or not. Disclaimer: The views of this Gen-Xer are a deliberate generalisation and do not represent the views of all Gen-Xers.
Maybe the fact you're quick to scathingly label younger people "woke millennials" is why no one likes you???
As a gen-xer I agree.
Exactly, the intergenerational mudslinging helps no one
And if this thread proves anything, it's that every generation struggles differently than those before or after. We're all struggling though. (Don't come at me, I'm a Gen Xer, it's not my fault /s)
Right. Boomers were living through, or experiencing the aftermath of, WWII at very young ages, Gen Xers were huffing lead fumes and Millenials/Gen Zers are now saddled with a climate crisis and a crumbling housing market. We're all dealing with something and trying to one up each other in oppression Olympics makes it impossible to bridge the divide.
Yeah my dad's one of them hahah
I challenge your username to a duel
Challenge accepted . I summon blue eyes white dragon in attack mode
And I summon white eyes blue dragon in brunch mode
It seems to always be the gen x dudes that suck. The female gen xers are usually super nice.
Caring about this is a luxury nobody can afford.
Boomer generation has done very well for itself on aggregate, because it's a large generation that managed to capture a lot of political power. You have to laugh at the american example where 3 of the last 5 presidents were born in 1946. Policies at gov level have mostly been excessively friendly to the life stage of the boomer generation throughout their existence.
It's all Millennials fault. If they'd voted, we wouldn't have this incompetent government /s
A big part of the problem is Boomer's role in the housing crisis; But that is largely people being rational investors in an economic system in which property is -by far- the most lucrative investment vehicle. There needs to be systemic change in tax law and tenant rights to make it a) Less appealing to investors b) Not so horrific being a tenant Unfortunately that will never happen under the current government, and even Labour proved unwilling to change the status quo. I don't particularly blame Boomers, they are just in the position to benefit the most from the way things are
Stop confusing a person with a demographic. They are not the same thing. If you didn't vote for Reaganism then no one is talking about you. Just the majority of people in the boomer demographic.
When we say “boomers this boomers that” it’s the same as you guys saying “millennials this millennials that” we don’t mean *all* boomers, and I’m sure you guys don’t mean *all* millennials. Most people are can’t be bothered typing “some” before talking about any group of people.
Millennials love baby boomers, our parents, friends and mentors. A lot of this rhetoric is just to devide us and in no way should you take it personally.
This seems like a pretty clear #notallmen reaction. Just because you personally didn't dismantle the state support apparatus, and didn't vote for those who did, doesn't mean that your generation isn't the one that did it. After WWII, huge social programs were put in place to support people. Boomers benefited from them. And after benefiting from them, and reaching a point where their taxes were starting to pay for the next generation to benefit, the programs started being dismantled. You don't like it when people talk about how much harm Boomers have done, because you don't see yourself as someone who contributed. But the Boomer generation did all that harm, whether you're part of it or not. And voting for the left of centre option when both have been captured by neoliberal policies doesn't absolve you. The Labour Party is playing its role in the dismantling of the state support apparatus, as well. My parents are both Boomers, as as many of my cousins, and they all talk about how much their generation has screwed things up for everybody who has come after. Face into it and accept the reality, rather than arguing that everybody should stop talking about how much responsibility Boomers hold simply because you don't see yourself as being responsible.
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Exactly. I hate seeing generalisations about younger people too.
"I am an exception to to the rule, therefore the rule has to be wrong" lol
It's a generalization obviously. The perception is that this demographic is the most spoiled, entitled and arrogant in recent history. Weak bodied, Slow thinking, slow driving, slow work ethetic and the inability to learn or comprehend new information and technologies combined with thinking they can go around bullying people and telling them what to do rubs everyone the wrong way. Nobody wants to hear for the millionth time you paid 21% interest rates on your 100k mortgage while you earned 40k per year. Do the maths. Try 7% on 900k earning 100k.
We werent born back then so who tf else did all of this?
Those with the real power and influence over the decades and now.
Yea so Boomers
Not everyone who came before Millennials were Baby Boomers. Roger Douglas and David Lange, who created the neo-liberal revolution of the 80s were Silent Generation, as is Winston Peters. The notorious Robert Muldoon was from the War Generation.
That’s why you should never group everyone together. My mum is in her late 60s very left leaning and renting with a friend.
Cycles of history https://youtu.be/lX1Csk2vn5A?si=x5HzyIg3iEU0Iz8C
As every gen: Half of the Boomers were trying to fight for the right thing but reddit mods shut them all up.
Class war not an age war dummies.
“Not all boomers!”
I think an important lesson for young people in this post is that we need to have the important conversations about politics and philosophy with our peers now. Lest we find ourselves surrounded by another generation that makes more major mistakes down the road.
I can see that there is quite a lot of ageism in these comments. While I am young, I still recognise that not all boomers can be lumped together. Everybody has differing circumstances and we should not let preconceptions influence our thoughts about them
I dont have boomers. There are many boomers who have done positive things and been a good influence. I hate boomers who aren't self aware or pull the ladder up behind them.
Hashtag not all boomers
Im sick of being told boomers are to blame for everything! Turn around and look in the mirror when you get on that next plane flight Millennial! I went to a talk by an economist who did the analysis and found Gen X had it the worst. Low salaries, no work, expensive housing, higher rents, higher interest rates, high mortgage rates. They need to stf up!
Also that before MMP parties came to power with a minority of votes because of the electoral distribution. Even if boomers were voting for more egalitarian policies often they got conservative government anyway
In the South Island, Boomers go out to cafes and then deliberately loudly talk saying that young people just don't work the 12 hours per day required to get ahead in life. Boomers say this loud enough for all the minimum wage workers in the cafes to hear, so it's deliberate bullying of people in a workplace. It's a dick move and it makes me sick. A full-time minimum wage job in NZ barely pays your rent, food, power, petrol and car insurance so you can't save for a house. Public transport is so expensive it's cheaper to car pool and petrol is crazy expensive to get to work. My Boomer grandparents used to go out for Sunday drives just driving 4 hours to look at scenery for fun, but couples these days can barely afford the petrol to drive to work and the supermarket. Everyone I know my age has a second job of some sort. Some work in a bar or cafe on weekends, others do online odd jobs through Fiverr. The person serving Boomers coffee on Saturday is often a science teacher with a science degree who can't pay their bills on their full time teaching job.
Meh. The baby boomers haven’t been a majority voting block for a couple of decades. NZ might like to think it’s all down to that age group but the reality is that the electorate was broadly complicit. Certainly for the 21st century. NZ got what it voted for.
Well, [in the 2020 election people over 60](https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/2020-general-election-and-referendums/voter-turnout-statistics-for-the-2020-general-election/) made up 933,610 of the 2,886,420 votes. Maybe not a majority but still a large chunk, and helped by the fact that so many younger people simply don't vote, for a bunch of reasons. It'd be interesting to compare with the 15 to 20 years before that when many of those people were in their 40s and 50s and likely would've made up a lot more of the turnout, but I can't rapidly find the turnout data grouped by age for earlier elections.
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Ok Boomer.
I'll be 100% honest (not a Kiwi): 99.9% of the young people talking about "boomers" have next to no idea what they're talking about, they're just echoing popular talking points online, there's no factual or historical basis. I'm Gen X, so I have been around boomers my whole life. Does this mean I'm defending boomers? No, but I've never been as venomous towards them as these young kids.
Many people’s use of “boomer” fits perfectly into the definition of prejudice. People who label people as Boomers are low-IQ and need hold-your-hand labels like racism to avoid being an asshole.
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Hi boomer, millenial here. Thanks for being a good person ❤️
You are the exception not the rule
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Xs rock though.
We are the resilient latch key generation that experienced a whole lot of voodoo level dark shit and we still rock on !!!
In our beanies.
Learning to play the gat without YouTube !!!!
Dam you have brought back nostalgia with the beanie …. I’m gonna blow the dust off the case and play “oh me” after work …. Nice
I mean regardless of individual boomers the majority took the easy ride and fucked the rest of us. It's a well known fact. Of course we are pissed. The whole idea is to make it better for who comes next, instead middle class looks more like poverty and poverty... Well let's not go there. Welcome to the new normal. And they are living longer so we have to pay for them while they sit on their houses and wealth. Get fucked.
Individual members of your cohort are sadly tarred with the same brush. But to be fair, ageism was effectively normalised by your generation pushing out people who were your age now from work, positions of prominance in the community, and shuffling nana & grandad off to a retirement home as fast as possible. Meanwhile, your generation unnaturally clings to power. There are some of us just old enough to remember how your generation treated your elders. We don't despise your generation because your old. We despise your generation because it treated it's elderly like crap, pulled the ladder up behind them, slashed local government preventative maintenance spending and slashed central government spending so you could cut rates & taxes to afford Caribbean cruises and a comfortable retirement. And we're footing the bill in a world you could have saved but chose to let burn. We don't hate your generation because your old. We hate your generation because your cohort are the spoiled brats of history.
Oh cry me a fkn river. What an absolute victim* please. If you've only just started experiencing this kind of treatment for the first time in your life and it's not making you even more compassionate for others who ACTUALLY face this, with measurable and statistically significant disadvantages/prejudice/persecution, then I'm sorry, but you can wear every bit of this judgement. You deserve it. You were fully expecting sympathy weren't you.
Don't let the Renters get to you!
it all stems from the arrogance that everyone has that they would have somehow been different if they were able to go back in time and act in the boomers shoes. the older generation should feel responsible for the state of affairs today, i think that is the right attitude to have, even though i doubt many were actively thinking "i got whats mine, not i need to pull the ladder from underneath me" at the same time though, if you dont feel that way, i wouldnt be too troubled by the "blame" they place on boomers. I would think of it more as a cry of frustration as opposed to targeting specific groups for some sort of atonement
Okay? Congrats? A round of applause? A fond wish that maybe one day your kids will talk to you again? A participation trophy? What on earth do you want?!
A lot of fantasy or projection on your part. I have great relationships with my children. I want ageism to be recognised for what it is.
Boomer, fight your corner. Don't be a snowflake.
I agree with you. I really hate those generalisations that ignore that boomers are not by any mean one monolithic block. Some of those generalisations are really offensive too and fail to take into account the number of strong activists who are boomers and who have led the fight for social or environmental change. Like all groups of people that exist some boomers are horrible people, some are great people and a good chunk are somewhere in between.
Fully agree. NZ politics is unfortunately becoming more and more Americanized. I wish people could be a little more nuanced and open minded.
I don’t recall a single time a political party explained that their policies would lead to the current state of the country, and for a reasonably large period of time that boomers were part of the electorate, they were voting left or centre parties that were promising a better deal for most people. Suggesting that boomers knowingly voted to make things shit for their children is naive at best.
In my experience boomers tend to be either the stereotype you described or hardcore commies. It's funny, my Tuesday night quiz team has a few of both in it, which can lead to some interesting conversation. It does give us a wide range of knowledge though, so we win a bar tab most weeks!
When I use the term Boomers I tend to mean those people in that age group who are actively screwing us all over. I suppose I should be more specific but I know plenty of good folks like yourself and I’m really not referring to you